Transcript
Carl Lubbe: Hey friends, and welcome to another episode of One Great Question. And we are here with an excellent question and asker, Mr. Barry Moline. has been doing this sort of work, this sort of curious, how do we help not only the current generation of leaders, but the next ones for a while now. He currently sits as the CEO of BJM Solutions and has a 29 year track record in the CEO spot.
Carl Lubbe: and is a certified licensed trainer. and is a founding member of the Cialdini Institute. And really interestingly is the host of the Leadership Career Accelerator podcast, which is focused on young professionals.
Carl Lubbe: and how to develop their executive presence and influence. Barry. What a lovely CV. Thank you so much for being here, my friend.
Barry Moline: Carl, I'm really looking forward to the conversation.
Carl Lubbe: Yeah, man. Well, the first question that I always love to start with Barry is you've lived a fascinating life. We've just listened to this very impressive CV and list of accomplishments and things.
Carl Lubbe: If the eight -year -old version of Barry Got to be in the room right next to you in front of those beautiful guitars sitting in your executive office. what would be the thing that he'd be most excited about like hold on you get to do what or we've done this like what's the thing that would just spark some uh enjoyment and uh and excitement in the eight -year -old version of you
Barry Moline: Well, the eight year old version was playful. and and silly. And was. Playing Hockey And. I think the eight -year -old version of me would be thrilled to know that I'm still playing hockey today.
Carl Lubbe: wow
Barry Moline: and And. you know, I play in in what's known as a a beer league which is where where seniors play.
Barry Moline: I mean, seniors, adults play.
Carl Lubbe: Yeah.
Barry Moline: uh generally Generally, it's no checking.
Carl Lubbe: Yeah.
Barry Moline: So. people have to get up and go to work the next day and and they like to be just minimally bruised uh And.
Carl Lubbe: Yeah.
Carl Lubbe: Uh -huh.
Barry Moline: But I will say this, that... Something I did not realize as a... as a kid because I i played. I played. most of my life. is that There's It's really nice to play. on a team as an adult.
Barry Moline: Because. there's There's really no other. activity that we do You know, we we try to create teams at work.
Carl Lubbe: mm -hmm
Barry Moline: and and try to create a unified group of folks with a purpose to get something done But when you're playing just. honest sports team with other people.
Barry Moline: and And it's complex. right it's not just tennis back and forth kind of thing There's... you lose yourself. in those in those moments for for the three hours that I'm over there.
Barry Moline: playing uh playing hockey. I'm not thinking about anything else. And everyone's equal. the the The. person who is you know i i have been a CEO for a long time.
Barry Moline: I don't come to the game as a CEO. And. and the the it assistant who is my line mate doesn't come as an i .t assistant we come as trying to say, now, what if we if we did more drop passing? you know What if, you know, as I'm bringing the puck in, what if you trailed me to the left and then i'll I'll know that you're there? Or use my name when you're saying, you know, Barry, over to the right, and then I'll know that you're there. Oh.
Barry Moline: we're we're not who we are at work we're just we're just people and we're having a gas and where you know, creating a team. so I think eight -year -old Barry would be really excited to know that I'm still out there, you know, working on it as a team.
Carl Lubbe: Amazing. And I think you know the curiosity of... all of those statements is Something that is obviously fascinating, owning a company called Curiosity and starting a podcast. cold one great question but i think you know the the thing that i'd get like interested now is How did...
Carl Lubbe: Barry now come from that eight -year -old. So you you told me you're in California today and in Sacramento area. What was the journey from eight -year -old hockey player to current day hockey player?
Barry Moline: All right, well, you asked the question.
Carl Lubbe: I did. I did.
Barry Moline: All right.
Carl Lubbe: Questions are dangerous, so we're all in.
Barry Moline: so so
Carl Lubbe: We're all in.
Barry Moline: Yeah, so... so In my life, there is a... There is a... A through line. from Me. Around that time.
Barry Moline: to becoming a CEO. And i'll I'll tell you this story, and I'm going to make it as quick as I can.
Carl Lubbe: oh yeah done don't worry
Barry Moline: It's a little it's it's a little long, but it's it's kind of interesting.
Carl Lubbe: That's all right.
Barry Moline: All right. so When I was 16, I've been playing hockey. for a long time as a kid. And when I was 16, I wanted to be a better player and I wanted to play better in in high school. So I went. to summer hockey camp.
Barry Moline: Okay.
Carl Lubbe: Okay.
Barry Moline: Hockey's a winter. sport right but i went in the summer to try to be a better player and And that was going fine. some time during the week of hockey camp, we had a referee.
Barry Moline: Come in. and and give us like an hour long presentation on. the rules of hockey. And. And I remember. Two things from that. presentation. One was that.
Barry Moline: There are rules. Wait, what? We don't just bash each other's head in? Like, wait, what? way one and then And then two was that.
Barry Moline: He said. if if you want to spend more time on the ice. and get paid to do it when we get back. I was living in the Chicago area. When we get back to Chicago.
Barry Moline: uh Then. Call me up. And I'll get you. you know, arranged and hooked up into refereeing. You can spend more time with the game you love.
Barry Moline: and And I thought, well, you know, I kind of like that. I had a... car or i could drive around to games so So I checked it out and I started to referee games, you know, little kid games at first, like little league type games.
Barry Moline: And in my first year. My rookie year as as an official. I got assigned a game.
Barry Moline: At the end of the year. Now, I had some experience. I i had now officiated, you know, maybe 50 games. But again, they were all at, you know, modest levels, kind of lower levels. I got to sign this game. It's in a league called the juniors. And if you, if you're familiar with hockey, if your listeners are familiar with hockey, they'll know their eyebrows will go up and they'll say juniors juniors is like.
Barry Moline: is like college level. it it's if you're If you're in high school and you don't want to go to college, you go to juniors. And juniors is a step right below professional hockey. So it it was a really.
Carl Lubbe: Big deal.
Barry Moline: Fast League and And. I was not. prepared to Be the referee, be the one in charge of the game. From my experience that first year, I was assigned to be a linesman. if you're familiar with soccer.
Barry Moline: football you'll know that along the the sidelines, you have the linesmen, the guys that carry the flags and and raise it to call offsides. And then the referees in the middle. who's handing out the yellow cards. so I was assigned to be a linesman for the game. I showed up for the game.
Barry Moline: and went to the locker room and there were two other rookies like me, and and I knew them. you know We had officiated little kids games before, but here they we all were, the three of us.
Barry Moline: you know as linesmen but there were only two linesmen so I said, well, I arrived late. I guess I won't be working today because the referee's going to come. But I said, you know, i'll just I'll just get dressed slowly and see what happens.
Barry Moline: so no if No referee came. About 15 minutes before the game, the the official scorekeeper came in the locker room and said. Which one of you is the referee? And the other guys looked at me.
Barry Moline: And they said. Not me. Not me. So, I said. I am. And. Raise my hand. And he said, good. This is an important game. Both teams are vying for the number one spot. You got to call it really tight.
Barry Moline: Okay. I said, absolutely. And I reached down to my bag and I put on the referee's orange armband and the other two guys looked at me and they said, thank you. Thank you for doing that. And I was like, I don't know what the hell I got myself into.
Barry Moline: But. Here we go. Fortunately, I was wearing a helmet and people couldn't see you in the stands, the 2 ,000 people. that a 16 year old was refereeing this near professional hockey game so I get out to the ice.
Barry Moline: To drop the puck, I check the goalies and I yell out what I normally do at every game. Everybody, let's play a great game. And I dropped the puck. About two minutes into the game. There was a face -off. in one of the corners now i don't conduct those face -offs i only do the center ice face -offs so the linesman was doing that And I took my position about 30 feet away.
Barry Moline: The linesman dropped the puck. And then a player. Skated into the circle. and picked up the puck and started skating out. on a breakaway. toward the other goalie. And I blew the whistle.
Barry Moline: The problem was that player, when he skated in... He skated in too early. he he left his position and he went in before the puck was dropped. So that's an infraction.
Barry Moline: Okay, now. When I blew the whistle. About a thousand people. in the stands. Were. We're very unhappy. that I blew the whistle because I had stopped a breakaway.
Barry Moline: uh from their player who might go and score a goal and a thousand people were really happy because I had stopped a breakaway. from their team against their team.
Barry Moline: Yeah. uh I. I... Went back into the circle and I said, number eight was in the in the circle too early. Redrew the face off. And then I went over to number eight and I said, if you do that again. You're out.
Barry Moline: And. For those of you that are listening, I use the, you know, i' at the thumb you're out sign kind of, you know, like an umpire, you're out. So everybody in the place saw me.
Barry Moline: say something to this player. you know, like you're out. I didn't know. i mean I was just. I speak with my hands. You know, I wasn't doing anything specific, but that's what I did.
Carl Lubbe: Yeah.
Barry Moline: But it it showed my authority. And then I went back to my position. And I thought to myself, oh God, I hope these people don't know I'm just 16 years old. I hope this game goes okay. And then they dropped the puck and I was like, okay, back in the game.
Barry Moline: The game went great. So. it There was one penalty. The score was 2 -1. Players came to play and. went really well.
Barry Moline: Well, the next day I got a phone call. from the referee -in -chief. who had assigned the games. And he said. Barry, I am so sorry. That was my mistake. you should not have had that that assignment to referee that game, you know, you were supposed to be assigned a linesman. That was I did that as a problem, you know, but I heard one thing from the game.
Barry Moline: You were fantastic. You refereed a great game. What happened? And I told them more or less what happened. And I just sort of went through the motions as I did for a little kid's game. And he said, well. Whatever you did.
Barry Moline: It turned out extremely well. Do you want to do more of those? And I said, Uh, yeah, I'd like to have a little more. Training. a little more heads up. And he said, We'll get you that.
Barry Moline: But... What I need to know is if you want to do more. And then the next year. I was assigned. bigger and bigger games i was mentored uh along with other more senior officials and then in my 18th year i mean my my when i was 18 years old i was assigned even bigger games and more of these junior games and college level games and again being mentored and then at the end of my 18th year i was recommended to go to nhl
Barry Moline: Referee Training Camp So National Hockey League training camp in Guelph, Ontario. and And I went and I became a. a professional hockey referee mostly minor leagues but a few and nhl games
Barry Moline: And I did that for three years. And that was back in the days where you drove from city to city there was no serious xm there was no there were no podcasts there was There was there were tape recorders. I would bring a tape recorder and listen to music on a tape recorder. but it was a lot of windshield time anyway i decided not to to continue in that profession. My family really wanted me to go to college.
Barry Moline: But that's okay. so And then I did. I went to college. And. uh and graduated and now i'm in my my first job as as an analyst at at an energy company.
Barry Moline: and It's September. I got to be friendly with the the HR director who was a couple of doors down from me and we had an all hands meeting. 80 people at the office and the vice presidents and the president were going through the you know what was going on and all the activities and everybody should be informed of this and that.
Barry Moline: And then toward the end of the meeting. The president called on the HR director, my friend, and said, uh here's arsini who's going to talk about the holiday party. And.
Barry Moline: oh yeah And Arsenio was in charge of it. And she talked about when it was going to be in early December. And she said she needed some people to help. Plan the meeting.
Barry Moline: And. for about five seconds. Silence. silence and five seconds of silence. is just a long time especially for my friend arsenia just two doors down So I raised my hand and I said,
Barry Moline: I'll do it. I'll be on your committee. And she said, okay, Barry's on the committee. Who else? Who else would be on the committee? And two other people raised their hands, and we had enough people for the holiday party planning committee.
Barry Moline: When we met the first time. the next week. And. who came to the So the... Holiday party. planning. meetings, the president of the company, he loved the holiday party.
Barry Moline: And he loved it because he thought it was a great team building opportunity. And he wanted as part of the. of the event for there to be a variety of of group activities where people mixed and mingled from across the organization.
Barry Moline: So we brainstormed a lot. We met weekly, you know. from September until early December, developing ideas and planning these things. And it went really well.
Barry Moline: So it it was a good, you know, the the CEO was not. He was just a regular person on the committee. He was he was he just wanted to hear ideas. He wasn't even there to lead the meetings.
Barry Moline: And Arsenio was leading the meetings. So in January... Uh... the One day, the CEO... Pops into my office and said, Barry? Can I talk to you? And I thought to myself.
Barry Moline: Oh no, what did I do? do. It's only January. we we it you know We just had the holidays. I didn't have enough time to screw up. what what You know you know what do what happens when the boss says, I want to talk to you.
Barry Moline: And. He said, he sat down and he said, you know, Barry, I really appreciate. what you did on the holiday party planning committee. Your ideas were really good. You brainstormed really well. you uh you know you took ideas from other people and and and and grew them further you you really brought the group together.
Barry Moline: and And I appreciate your assertiveness. He said, we have a problem in June of every year when we have a giant conference, 2 ,000 people from all across the country come to our conference and we hire big time speakers. At the time that we had hired for our June conference, General Colin Powell.
Barry Moline: to speak.
Carl Lubbe: wow
Barry Moline: So.
Carl Lubbe: Yeah.
Barry Moline: And he said, we pay them a lot of money. And and then they give a presentation. And when it comes to the Q and &A, nobody asks any questions. He said, would you? Be the. person to ask the first question you know stand up in front of everybody and do that because i think what Once you do that, other people will ask questions.
Barry Moline: And I said, yeah, I can do that. Absolutely. He said, now it's got to be a thoughtful question. You just can't ask something dumb. He said, oh, absolutely. i i'll I'll give a lot of thought to it. He said, good. Now I had other responsibilities at the conference, but that was. of the big one.
Barry Moline: And it was I was a junior analyst. so for me to be going to this conference was a big deal. I did that for five years. i At every one of those conferences, I asked the big time speaker, you know, the first question.
Barry Moline: The fifth year. After I asked that question, the The session ended. and a group of people came over to me and said barry You got a minute?
Barry Moline: I said, yeah, yeah, yeah. I've got about a half hour before. my next event that I've got to be at. And they said, well, let's sit down. We'd like to talk to you about an opportunity in Florida. Now, I was i was living in Washington, D .C. at the time.
Barry Moline: He said, Well, we we run or we have we're a group of electric utilities and we have. A trade association in Florida And we need somebody like you. who's assertive, who's not afraid to stand up in front of people, who's not afraid to talk to important people.
Barry Moline: to talk to the legislature, talk to heads of agencies and in the government. who can bring us together. Uh, is is that the kind of job that you'd be interested in doing and they were just literally asking like you Would you mind doing that?
Barry Moline: And I thought about it. I knew what the job was. The job was. basically the president. of our our organization but in a smaller place you know in florida Instead of for the whole country, it was just for one state. And I said,
Barry Moline: I think I could do that. You know, I'm not doing that right now. I'm doing something else. but you know with with the right collegiality working together with you i believe i could do that and they said well that'd be great we'd love for you to interview for the job Now, I had an interview for it, and i had you know it was all a legitimate process, but I got that job.
Barry Moline: and i i made a leap from at the time i was no longer a junior analyst i was more more of a senior person or or a mid to senior person. I was a manager.
Barry Moline: But I wasn't anywhere close to being the CEO. and End. I said I'm gonna need you know some people that are on my side working with me and they made sure that that happened and that was my first ceo job i did that job for 21 years and i got better at it you know fortunately but i would not have Have.
Barry Moline: gotten any of those opportunities. had I not raised my hand all along the way. And I know that's a long story. but the But the point is... That. It's meaningful.
Barry Moline: To me, because it happened to me, but it's it's meaningful, I think. to others who you know sometimes sit on the sidelines and say, you know, I'll just sit this one out or or we'll let somebody else do it. or whatever I might be.
Barry Moline: But the point is that. You know, the... The world belongs to the assertive. The world belongs to people who will raise their hand. You don't have to know everything about the solution, but if you're the kind of person who can.
Barry Moline: bring people together then The solutions will be there. You don't have to be the one with all the information. What you have to do is put together a good team and then. with that team, you can develop a solution.
Barry Moline: The key all along is is raising your hand, taking responsibility, and then... Good things will happen. You just don't know when or how but you have to be ready for them, but they will happen.
Carl Lubbe: Man. Whatever. wonderful story of Like you said.
Barry Moline: I know, it's crazy, isn't it?
Carl Lubbe: it being Yeah, being in the in the room and being willing to take. some sense of responsibility And also what I love in that, and you can hear it just in your tone as you talk about in the the memory, is there's a deep sense of wonder.
Carl Lubbe: of like, oh, like what what could happen here? Because I think for most people. The tension between worry and wonder. is that... worry goes, how bad could this go?
Carl Lubbe: And Wanda goes, I wonder what might happen. And our line around this at Curiosity is we say that worry. is an amazing misuse of a terrific imagination.
Carl Lubbe: because worry is telling me let me, let me create a future hypothetically.
Barry Moline: Yeah.
Carl Lubbe: And the Stoics would say, you know, worry is suffering. a fate twice that may never come. Uh... And so I love in your story of going, I may be junior, but when this person who, you know, there's a big power dynamic between the CEO and the junior analyst goes, hey, would you be willing to do this thing? And then not only being willing to, but then taking it seriously. going, I will think about this between January and June.
Carl Lubbe: and make sure the question is good enough that not only does it mean something in the room, but they asked me to do it over and over and so that these other people were able to see that. So in your story, there's a lot of success. There's a lot of, hey.
Carl Lubbe: you know i was the junior analyst and then i became somewhere in middle senior and then after time i jumped straight to president and then i hold that position and build a team of people around me for 21 years My question then would be Barry, like.
Carl Lubbe: With a lot of success there is a cost. There is a bill to be paid. And sitting where you are now, 20 years, 29, 30 years into that that leadership. space.
Carl Lubbe: I'd just be curious what it might have cost you. to get there. And if you were to... Ask the question again, would I pay that bill again? Knowing. what the success would cost, what would I pay it?
Barry Moline: Yeah. That's a good question. Well. the The answer to the question. Okay. is uh is Peace. is yes, I would pay that bill again.
Barry Moline: And here's what it cost me. uh in in i i had two ceo jobs after my first one i got recruited for a second one which Brought me to California. And in both cases.
Barry Moline: I had work. Long hours. i had to travel a fair amount. I would say I was. Out. Twice a month. Ferb let's say three days each, but sometimes.
Barry Moline: That average was I was out for seven days or sometimes I was out for two days, but never, you know, it was a little uneven, but. but definitely i was I was away a lot. I had to be present for early morning meetings. I had to be at late night meetings. You know, it was a... Big variety.
Barry Moline: of being away. But that's the... the concept ultimately being away. and and I have a family.
Barry Moline: uh wife raised two kids. and And ultimately, I could not have done it. without my wife as as my partner doing that she also had a career but she had to she worked part -time in her career so she had to give up
Barry Moline: Uh, dreams that she had in order to keep the family together. And... Yo. We're not here in marriage counseling.
Barry Moline: uh I. I appreciate what she did. I... uh because of the of what we built. I would. Do it again.
Barry Moline: Because even though... You know, at times it created. some friction here and there you know we got into a cycle of trying to figure it out And then at at some point. I i did realize this.
Barry Moline: that it was important for me to... i'm not really sure what the right way to say this is it's not so much as saying no but at least get into a cadence where I found where my family was a priority.
Barry Moline: you know, where wherever I could be. So if I... needed to, if I was traveling and needed to get back. Home to see your kids. soccer game or tennis match.
Barry Moline: uh oh whatever you know Create some sacred time. with the family, I did that. oh But it took me a while to figure that out, to figure that cadence out.
Barry Moline: But ultimately, I, you know, I found, we we found a... a Good compromise. I would not have been as successful. As I... was Without.
Barry Moline: having uh that balance having the wife that i have And. Yeah. You know. But. I wish I could say that.
Barry Moline: that Uh, I could have done it in an easier way. I don't think that I could have. I don't think that I could have. And. i'm i'm I'm curious to know what your thoughts are on that because it's such a...
Barry Moline: it's such a Recognition. Thank you for being my therapist here, Carl.
Carl Lubbe: Yeah.
Barry Moline: It's such it's such a recognition. that I. I don't have another answer for it
Carl Lubbe: Yeah. Yeah. well and this is you know in these moments like you said i appreciate your transparency with me uh you know in such a public forum because i i think you know those big questions are worth wrestling with and what i am appreciating in your answer is you you can tell that this question has been a dialogue in your world.
Carl Lubbe: and something that you've talked about with your wife and your kids. and i think for most people the danger of a big question is that we just go i'll just ignore it i won't think about what is the success what how do we measure that and then also what's the bill that comes due at the end of that meal and are we willing to pay that bill And it was interesting. I was with a team of. uh special forces.
Carl Lubbe: people earlier today. and they obviously have a very complicated very nuanced world that they're living in and sometimes it's very black and white and sometimes really painful and one of the concepts we were going over i told them today i was like this might feel a little bit of woo -woo to be talking about with people like you guys who are you know planning missions and doing things to keep people safe around the world But.
Carl Lubbe: The discussion will be around order versus balance. And I think in our world. If you've been in the professional space for the last 40 years, there's this big conversation about work life. balance.
Carl Lubbe: And then I ask everybody that I meet the same question. I said, can you tell me one person you know that lives in perfect balance all the time? And by the way, balance means that both sides of the scale get equal weight. So if work gets 40 hours, does your spouse get 40? And then if you have kids, now we're on this weird seesaw that has like eight octopus arms. Each kid needs to get 40 and your hobbies, you know, playing guitar needs to get 40 hours and all the other things. And they're like all of a sudden the math just doesn't math, but I'm being told to find balance.
Carl Lubbe: And I think what I've experienced in the last 15 years of my professional life is
Barry Moline: yeah
Carl Lubbe: It's order. over balance. And the order of your life is, you know. some sort of thing that's very specific like how what's something bigger than me that i can think about and my life and meaning and purpose and some people for this is as a spiritual journey other people it's you know nature walks it's whatever connecting to something that their sense of something larger than the spreadsheet something larger than afternoon soccer with the kids, something larger than date night with the wife, all of which are beautiful.
Carl Lubbe: but i need something that is a clarion call to me if all of those things were taken away and so that's the first place and then this is descriptive of my experience not necessarily prescriptive to anybody else It's me and my spiritual journey, then me and my spouse, then me and my kids, then me and my friends, and then me and my work.
Carl Lubbe: And so now all of a sudden I have an order that I can communicate. And so like you, I'm in the season where the kids are 13 and 11 and I travel not a ton, but enough to have a conversation around it. And when I'm planning the holiday or and the business trip rather.
Carl Lubbe: i'm asking them i was like do you understand why i'm going do you understand who we are helping Because we own this thing. together like we're saying yes to this you're saying no to that and so i think having those conversations bringing them into hey this is the bill that we're all going to pay when it comes to time and effort and energy and even capital.
Carl Lubbe: when it comes to these things and so i think that at least has been a little bit of a north star in the midst of a very messy storm that all of us as adults are trying to navigate.
Barry Moline: yeah And we're all at the center. of our own universe There is... Another. layer on top of all that. which is Attention.
Barry Moline: And. When you're in... the moment. wherever it is that you are. We're always pulled in other directions. Our our our phones are...
Barry Moline: are. you know always beckoning us when we are when we're bored.
Carl Lubbe: mm -hmm
Barry Moline: Right. Or sometimes they're beckoning us because there's. something urgent. at another part of our life. and probably the one the the one Action.
Barry Moline: that we can all take. is that when we are in when we're in that carved out portion. of time with. one of our kids or you said you know date night with your wife is to is to...
Barry Moline: minimize those distractions so that you're focused. on that person in front of you. And. When... When we do that... Even though the time may be short.
Barry Moline: they can feel the connection. so So minimizing the the Venn diagram overlap.
Carl Lubbe: Amen.
Barry Moline: of of all those, you know. electrons floating around the nucleus. That. Helps. create the connection.
Barry Moline: in the moment with that. person, whatever, in that that. portion of your life. And and I think. Each one of those. Gets.
Barry Moline: has a greater... I'm trying to think of the of the right words, but but other than connection. But. has greater meaning.
Carl Lubbe: Yeah. No, it's so true. We we often talk around in our family and even in the companies that I consult that they're tired of my mantra around that. which is just Be here now.
Carl Lubbe: And I jokingly tell other people, I'm just telling you that so I remember it.
Barry Moline: Hmm.
Carl Lubbe: Like yeah I'm not coaching you. I'm reminding myself out loud. And if it's helpful to you, great. But I, like you said. I'm tugged by the phone and the computer and a dozen other things that might be vying for the most valuable thing I own which is my attention.
Carl Lubbe: you know there's an author out there by the name of uh berkman who wrote i think it was 4 000 weeks and then also meditations for mortals and one of his theses in the book is that You can't distinguish your attention from your life.
Carl Lubbe: Your attention is everything. Whatever you give your attention to, that is your life. And so this ability to give attention to ourselves, to our spouse, to our kids, to our friends, to our work, but to be here now when you're doing that thing means that you're living the fullest life because you're not having shame about the past or anxiety about the future.
Barry Moline: Mm hmm.
Carl Lubbe: You're in the moment as fully as you can be.
Barry Moline: yeah
Carl Lubbe: So with that
Barry Moline: and Well, and that, that is by the way, I... I'm not sure that there's any better advice that you can give anyone. at any level of job or in any activity of life, then...
Barry Moline: Be here now. because as i described you know in my eight -year -old self being happy playing. hockey. and And I said, you know during that time that I'm playing hockey.
Barry Moline: That's the most focused.
Carl Lubbe: Yeah.
Barry Moline: i ever am.
Carl Lubbe: Yep.
Barry Moline: all right And. I think that is... it it's It's not just a metaphor. It is an example of doubt.
Carl Lubbe: Mm hmm.
Barry Moline: level of focus that we need to bring to all the other activities of our lives. And when we do that, we feel more fulfilled in each one of those areas.
Carl Lubbe: So, so good. Well, Barry, we love to end any of our conversations with one final question, which is we're always on the hunt for better questions. So I'd love to ask you is if you think about, man, this is the best question somebody ever asked me or this was pivotal. And, you know, it doesn't have to be gigantic. It could be like, oh, the one time this.
Carl Lubbe: you know young lady asked if i liked cream with my coffee and that ended up being my wife and what a great question so it can be anything as small as how do you take your coffee to as large as what is the meaning of life but when i ask you what's a question that has meant a lot to you what comes screaming to the forefront of your mind
Barry Moline: Hmm.
Barry Moline: i You know, I think about that there's a. I don't, I'm not really good with my Bible references. But. There is a reference. in the Bible that I think about.
Barry Moline: a lot. which is the story of, it's not gonna be a long story, but it's the story of. of Zusha. And I don't know. who Zusha is. but it's Zusha. and it And. this The story is Zusha is is troubled. one day and And I. I'm Trust me, i don't I don't have a lot of biblical stories, but this is like...
Barry Moline: one out of three that I know, right?
Carl Lubbe: I'm fascinated. yeah i'm in Yeah.
Barry Moline: Zusha. uh is troubled one day and let's say he's having coffee at Starbucks with one of his friends. at Starstones with one of his friends.
Carl Lubbe: Nice.
Barry Moline: And. Alright. and his friend says you know what's what's going on zusha you look troubled and zusha says well last Last night I had a dream that I died and I went to heaven.
Barry Moline: And. I was at the pearly gates and whoever's at the pearly gates said Uh, Uh, Zusha, oh, I need to take you - write to god because God has a really important question for you.
Barry Moline: And. And. the the Susha's friend said, oh my gosh, that's what an amazing dream. You know, what was the question? Was what was it, you know, like.
Barry Moline: Why would you more like? Like. Moses, or why weren't you more like... I don't know. Pick somebody else who's big and ancient, whatever. ancient times.
Barry Moline: And Zosia said, no, no, it wasn't that. It wasn't that. And I've got to God. And and God said. Susha. Why were you more like Zusha?
Barry Moline: And. you know, why aren't we more ourselves? Which is, you know, that moral of that story. is Be authentic. Be sincere. Be yourself.
Barry Moline: We... we We accept a lot of people all around us. Like I said, we're the we're the center of our own universe, but we look at other folks and we say, yeah, these are these are fine people. you i mean I've lived a long time. I can count on one hand the number of people that I would just like, I don't want to be around that person. And then. On the other hand,
Barry Moline: It's... If it's not tens of thousands of people that we've met, you know, it's something in that order, right? It's definitely thousands of people that we've that we've... come into contact with. They've all been fine people. You know, they're they're accepting of us. They they like us. they're They're happy. Some of them... Love us.
Barry Moline: And it's okay to be yourself. And. And that was the. you know that moral if if you're a little goofy it's okay to be a little goofy If you're if you're serious and a stoic, it's okay to be that way.
Barry Moline: be yourself. And, or I guess there's an expression, you know, be yourself. Uh, Oh, I can't remember it. yeah
Carl Lubbe: because everybody else has taken.
Barry Moline: yes everyone else is already taken right everyone else is yes
Carl Lubbe: Yeah.
Barry Moline: Bye. But bottom line is that. It's okay. to be yourself. A lot of times we think, oh, I've got to fit this role or that role. You know, we don't know. We don't have it figured out. When you become a parent for the first time, if that's where your life takes you.
Barry Moline: I remember that moment. It's like, oh my, what do I do now? This is crazy. I have no idea. Just like. The first step is changing a diaper, who lu whatever, you know feeding. It's it's just...
Barry Moline: What do we do? And and that's the most. Basic. one It is. you just Figure it out along the way.
Carl Lubbe: Figure it out.
Barry Moline: Be yourself and figure it out along the way. so I come back to that. when when I'm, that story, when I'm feeling. Uh... Like, this is this what I really want to do? Is this me?
Barry Moline: is this Does this reflect? who I am and And you know I spent a career in advocacy and politics. And. Sometimes I had to put blinders on when I'm talking to somebody that I don't really agree with their politics.
Barry Moline: But. I needed them to move to my side. Nevertheless. I thought about that a lot. you know am i being my best self here and Odd.
Barry Moline: So that that story. is one that that
Carl Lubbe: Yeah.
Barry Moline: Had a lot of meaning for me. So yeah, thank you for asking because I haven't thought about that in a long time.
Carl Lubbe: Well, we can take all the. the insights from Zsuzsa. and And like you said, I think the question there is, you know, the world needs you. They've got everybody else is in full full stock. you're You're not in stock.
Carl Lubbe: So what does it look like today to be more? You. because that's what the world needs and that's what you need. Barry, I really appreciate you taking the time. What a lovely conversation. For people who are wanting to intersect with you and your work currently, we'll put you know all of your socials and links and all that stuff in the show notes. But what's the best? way for people to kind of interact with the work you're doing these days.
Barry Moline: the The best way is, oh, well, there there's two ways. One is you can just see what I'm doing at. BarryMoline .com. And if you want to send me an email, it's...
Barry Moline: Barry. at BarryMoline .com. And I love to just chat and brainstorm with folks.
Carl Lubbe: Very helpful. headed. Yeah. Oh, that's incredible. Well, I really appreciate you taking the time and thanks for saying yes to the conversation and the questions.
Barry Moline: Thank you, Carl. This is fascinating. I really enjoyed the conversation.
Carl Lubbe: Cheers.
