Transcript
Carl Lubbe: Hello, everybody, and welcome to another episode of One Great Question. We have another first here on our podcast today. We've had, you know, lots and lots of episodes, but today we have our first guest joining in from overseas. And I think this is going to be a real treat for everybody, mostly because um the CV and the resume for Dr. Fay. Nevium Domsky is.
Carl Lubbe: long and illustrious and varied. And so this is one of those leaders that I love getting around just because the questions that come out, the thought leadership that comes out is so well informed because part of it is in academia, part of it is in the marketplace. And so Dr. Faye, because she holds her PhD, has worked with CEOs and boards and even heads of state on leadership development and culture transformation. And she's also the author of the new book, Decisions That Matter. in
Carl Lubbe: What an important title. How to Rethink, Reimagine, and Reset Your Life. And so, Faye, it's such a pleasure to have you joining today.
Fay Niewiadomski: Thank you. My pleasure.
Carl Lubbe: Yeah.
Fay Niewiadomski: i love the name of your podcast curiosity and and that was one attraction
Carl Lubbe: I'd be deeply...
Carl Lubbe: Well, I'm so glad our two teams put us together. This is one of those rare moments where, you know, I'm having somebody on the podcast who you and I haven't met before. So this is our first time having a conversation. So I'm deeply intrigued and excited just to be with you. I would love to know, because again, in your experience leading in the marketplace and also in academia.
Carl Lubbe: um What's something else that... me or one of our you know viewers or listeners. would need to know to help shape the context of who Dr. Fay is.
Fay Niewiadomski: I think one of the words that you mentioned, variety. and variation is what really shapes me. cultural variety i grew up in jamaica which is very far away from where i live very different culture my parents are lebanese my husband is polish i lived in new york i traveled to almost all continents of the world and worked with over 45 different cultures. So I think that
Fay Niewiadomski: really impacts. how you look at the world, how you look at other people, because you realize there isn't a one dimension. that you can fit. neatly into.
Fay Niewiadomski: or you can fit other people into. And the other piece of variety is both academic. and commercial work. I spent a a lot of time in academia. I founded a university and I'm i one of the key founders.
Carl Lubbe: oh
Fay Niewiadomski: But then I realized that I really don't want to live in that ivory tower. I would love to see the real world. and Talk to the people whose decisions shape what happens to the rest of us. That may not be able to influence them. And so I started a consultancy business.
Fay Niewiadomski: And i've that business is 35 years old, so I've been in the in the commercial arena. for 35 years. I'm also a parent and a grandparent and I think we underestimate.
Fay Niewiadomski: the impact. of how that shapes our lives when you have another generation. and an even younger generation.
Carl Lubbe: a
Fay Niewiadomski: and you're looking at how they're seeing the world and what their experiences are. so i think this this tremendous variety and variation. shapes how I look at the world and how I process.
Fay Niewiadomski: reality and interact with other people.
Carl Lubbe: Incredible. And so as we speak about those different generations, I'd love to ask you the first question today, which is. What were the eight -year -old version of Faye? be looking at today's version of Faye and be so excited like, oh, I can't believe we got to do this in the past or that in this season of our life that we're getting to enjoy this either personally or professionally, what would they be excited about?
Fay Niewiadomski: That disobedient little girl. is still learning and acquiring new skills and achieving because I am absolutely passionate about learning. i was so happy to know scientifically.
Fay Niewiadomski: about neuroplasticity and that we can... can continue to learn and develop. no matter how old we are. So age is not a barrier. Retirement is not a barrier. And I'm sure my eight -year -old self would say, I'm really proud of you that you never...
Fay Niewiadomski: Quit. learning new things. Your curiosity kept driving you.
Carl Lubbe: Isn't that incredible? And you're so right. It's one of my favorite fields in the world right now. My brother is actually a specialist in the field of neuroplasticity. And so when we get together and we have... dinner We talk a lot about this idea of you're quite physically and literally a different person every seven years. And isn't it interesting now?
Carl Lubbe: We can influence the inputs that then affect the outputs of that. If we want to be more of a certain thing, our neuroplasticity will mend and meld in the direction that we're calling it to. And so I'm i'm curious, before we began our chat today, you and I were speaking before the show and talking about the thing that you're hoping to bring to this next generation of leaders through your book and through your consultancy. what would you say is the thesis of that because you've been formed by all of this variety and obviously whenever we're. formed by our experiences, it typically shares something with us that we're going, oh, this is the burning thing in my mind that I would love to share with the world, with the current and next generation. What would you say that thesis is currently?
Fay Niewiadomski: Recognize that you own your power. until you give it away to somebody else. And that's what we always do. We're waiting for permission.
Fay Niewiadomski: For someone to tell us that's the right path. That's what you should be doing. This is good. This is bad This is what you should be doing and and we don't recognize That we willingly give away our power by waiting for approval and permission.
Fay Niewiadomski: And that's a terrible way to spend your life because... with The greatest fear we have as human beings is being unloved, being rejected, not being cared for. It's a built -in survival mechanism.
Fay Niewiadomski: But then when it becomes, when it goes out of control. And we believe that. we can only do right by having someone give us the prescription.
Fay Niewiadomski: that worked for them. But who says it's going to work for me? and That realization is something that takes people a surprisingly long time.
Fay Niewiadomski: I mean I'm talking. People hit 40 sometimes before they begin to ask the question. Who am I? Who do I? really want to be because we get so confused as we're growing up.
Fay Niewiadomski: by the media, by our parents, by different people who try to you know push different beliefs on us. And we do lose our way. We we get confused because...
Fay Niewiadomski: We want to do what's right. And when we submit and we comply with what is required, That can create a real... you know kind of dysfunction between feeling This is me.
Fay Niewiadomski: and feeling that this this personality doesn't quite fit. It's the wrong size. It's too tight. or it's too loose. It's it's just not me.
Fay Niewiadomski: and discovering. what our identity is. means that we have to take control. for our own. ah life Decide who we really are.
Fay Niewiadomski: and not wait for permission and approval.
Carl Lubbe: and
Fay Niewiadomski: And we tend to do that.
Carl Lubbe: And for you, I mean, Do you remember the moment? where you first kind of encountered that idea and then started to push on it and stopped waiting to ask for permission to start crafting the life or the personality that you, to your words, fit you better?
Fay Niewiadomski: I think the seed was always there. Because I think. my teachers at school, at high school, at university, really, really were very upset with me asking too many questions.
Fay Niewiadomski: you know I was always asking why, and this doesn't make sense, and how does it fit? And I never realized that that was the seed of something. that said These prescriptions that they're giving you are not for you.
Fay Niewiadomski: But it didn't take shape. until... until I myself. got to the age of 40, 45. and A lot of what I had built, my office, my career, a deanship.
Fay Niewiadomski: um you know i had a very good support from everybody and then one day I go to my office. And it has been bombed and there's nothing left, you know.
Fay Niewiadomski: Everything is gone. so that life that was built. around a lot of assumptions and premises that, you know, this is how you should be and my own. by any definition, you know becoming a dean, founding a university, having people really you know trust and support me.
Fay Niewiadomski: would have been considered success.
Fay Niewiadomski: But for me, it was something where I felt there was a mismatch between my values and the values being being promoted by the university, you know, compliance, it was a religious university, very Catholic.
Fay Niewiadomski: And... you know i didn't see how that would fit into a modern world where we need to have much more. control over our lives. So in a sense, that shattering of everything I had built for 17 years.
Fay Niewiadomski: was kind of a liberation. to redesign and create something. different. I couldn't go back to it. A lot of what I had done, the research work was burnt, turned to ashes. I mean, you couldn't you couldn't go back and put it together. That was before we had, you know, everything stored on on computers.
Carl Lubbe: Yeah.
Fay Niewiadomski: So that was gone.
Carl Lubbe: Yeah.
Fay Niewiadomski: And... then you had to say it. Or do I want to continue?
Carl Lubbe: Hmm.
Fay Niewiadomski: doing the same. thing. as I had always done, do I want to accept the restrictions and limitations that are imposed by society. My my husband is an alcoholic and it was a tremendous burden to raise four children.
Fay Niewiadomski: and and live with. an alcoholic. man in the house which i mean we could be very very traumatic for everybody at times. And so I had to decide which battles I wanted to fight.
Fay Niewiadomski: which roles I wanted to step out of even if society disapproved. and Did I want to continue? fighting for status that for me did not represent much, so I resigned from a deanship.
Fay Niewiadomski: I separated from my husband. I started my own business with with almost no capital, which was a huge risk in in a time of conflict.
Fay Niewiadomski: But somehow... When you decide, I want to be myself and I'm not going to let anything stand in the way. You you become enormously energized.
Fay Niewiadomski: There's no room. There is no room for looking back. you need to keep moving forward. And I believe that was the time. when I realized that I had capabilities I had never tapped into.
Fay Niewiadomski: Adversity somehow teaches us. That we have resources that we have potential that we leave dormant And so when everything is just nicely...
Fay Niewiadomski: smoothed out for you and there are no obstacles, you really don't get the chance to test yourself.
Carl Lubbe: It's so true. the The fascinating thing, and thank you so much for sharing you know what is clearly a heavy and traumatic season in your history. One of the things i I think about as you share your story is this idea that there's nothing in the world more tragic than wasted suffering.
Carl Lubbe: And that in that moment, your life's work.
Fay Niewiadomski: absolutely
Carl Lubbe: is obliterated. the The season at in you know in your own home is traumatic. And there is suffering compounding on suffering. And I think for many of us,
Carl Lubbe: we will just choose to Um, try and bear it as much as we can. We just think, oh my role here as a human is just to bear as much pain as I can and hope that something will change for the better.
Carl Lubbe: um I'd be curious from you, you know the question that I have. Bye. for a lot of other leaders is what does success cost you? I'd like to ask you a slightly different version of that question, which is.
Carl Lubbe: What do you think you would have lost had you not reached for that thing? Because I think a lot of people listening to you today, you know. God.
Carl Lubbe: almost 100 % of them have never had their life's work quite literally obliterated. And many of them may have traumatic home experiences, but for them, they might not have that pivotal moment that says, choose a path. either go back and sit still in the rubble of your life and hope something that changes or now leave the rubble and build something new as you did. They may not have that traumatic like apex moment or that intersectional, you know, opportunity where they go, I have to make a choice. It almost feels like they might just wake up at 50 and 60 never having made a choice because life just kind of slowly dripped on.
Carl Lubbe: How would you coach or consult them to go? This is what it looks like to take agency because this is what you might lose if you don't.
Fay Niewiadomski: the path of least resistance is a slippery slope to nowhere. I remember going and visiting. the university that I had founded and many people knew me. and many years later.
Fay Niewiadomski: And I felt sorry for a lot of my colleagues, many of whom I had hired. and who had stayed in the role because it was... part of least resistance. It was comfortable. It was a world of certainty.
Fay Niewiadomski: in which they had control. but I felt I was visiting a used car parking lot. And I was so happy. Tu havo.
Fay Niewiadomski: got out of that world where I could be. a sports car if I wanted it to be. I could be a submarine, I could be a bicycle, I could be whatever I wanted to be because I chose to be that thing.
Fay Niewiadomski: and You know. ah part of my Bye. academic life. I taught theater. And you might think how strange to have theatre as part of your uh you know leadership package i've directed like 35 plays and you know, the laws of work in the theater.
Fay Niewiadomski: And I think the theatre is a fantastic place. to so to learn project management and the complexity of project management and bringing a lot of diverse people and processes together.
Fay Niewiadomski: and coming out with a performance. because you have a paying audience coming in. There's nowhere to hide. You've got to deliver. So...
Fay Niewiadomski: in business. Sometimes you can hide behind your desk and you know pretend as a leader that things are going well. You don't have to deliver the performance.
Fay Niewiadomski: and the balance sheet can be tweaked. but in a real -life performance when you have a paying audience. You've got to perform. You've got to deliver. And I think that...
Fay Niewiadomski: diversity of experience, looking at... looking at reality through so many different areas. I've done clinical hypnotherapy. I have ah did my PhD in change management. I've done a lot of work in education.
Fay Niewiadomski: and theater. and psychology. And. not limiting myself to one particular discipline. gave me a wonderful view of what the world is. i mean if you If you understand...
Fay Niewiadomski: the value of the theatre when you read all the great thinkers who talk about what theatre is and what acting is. you begin to read people in a different way. You realize that as human beings,
Fay Niewiadomski: We are mimetic creatures. We copy. We display, we project. And those things that we project and we display. Sometimes...
Fay Niewiadomski: Spark. a connection between us and other people if we are lucky enough. to project authenticity. And it creates that space I was talking about, that that that costume that doesn't quite fit you.
Fay Niewiadomski: It's a bit too big The shoulders are too wide for you. It's not your costume It's not your character. and how to be in character as a leader.
Fay Niewiadomski: how to have presence, how to speak, how to communicate. Influence people. with your words because you have observed them first.
Carl Lubbe: Yeah.
Fay Niewiadomski: because you have listened to what they said and more importantly to what they didn't say. and therefore when you Speak to them. Your message lands in a different way because they know It's coming from a place of of real authenticity and that's not something to be scoffed at. That has saved my life, literally, my life more than once because
Fay Niewiadomski: Being fair to people regardless of who they are. Gives you a reputation and this was this was a very valuable reputation at a university where in times of war people people were bringing kalashnikovs and you know other kinds of weapons.
Fay Niewiadomski: to class. And if they didn't like the grade they got. you could have been eliminated. But I think that what...
Fay Niewiadomski: saved me and what gave me tremendous a tremendously powerful connection. With. the students at the university.
Fay Niewiadomski: Was the fact that they knew it didn't matter who they were they were going to get the same treatment And it was going to be fair.
Fay Niewiadomski: And so when my office was was bombed the thing that moved me is All I had was a briefcase. not even a laptop, but a briefcase with a few papers left in it.
Fay Niewiadomski: and And when I... Before I handed in my resignation, you know students would come up to me and say, we want to hear from you. What do you think? Because you're the only one we trust here. We know you won't tell us something that we...
Fay Niewiadomski: That is not true. What do you say? And not that. that Was it? was a good thing for me personally. but something that created friction for me with other people at the university, with, you know, administration and so on. So there is never a one -sided...
Fay Niewiadomski: perspective on anything. understanding our life understanding our world understanding our relationships really requires that we examine them from many different angles.
Carl Lubbe: Hmm. Yeah, I yeah also i hold your view of theater and the arts in general of just how good it is for leaders to be multifaceted humans.
Carl Lubbe: And one of my favorite things to think about is the old adage that, you know, better to be a jack of all trades than a master of none. And what I think people have never really considered is the second half of that phrase is still, but better yet than a master of one.
Carl Lubbe: And it's this idea that we use the phrase to tell people, don't be multi -dimensional, don't have you know niche down to one thing and only know that thing.
Fay Niewiadomski: Yes.
Carl Lubbe: And the research is, you know, now around. neuroplasticity, especially of things like worldclass athlete world -class athletes. They think, oh, they need to have ah only done this one thing from the time they were three.
Carl Lubbe: and as they study more and more athletes if they were more varied and grew up around a few different sports, they can bring what they're learning from different theaters, whether it's sports or the actual theater, into those places to become the best version of themselves that they're choosing to be in those moments.
Carl Lubbe: And one of the fascinating things about your story is there seems to be this theme of recreation. It's going, oh, I'm in academia.
Fay Niewiadomski: Yes.
Carl Lubbe: I'm in the corporate world. I'm founding a university. I'm leading. 35 productions. And so my question around that would be. How do you have the courage to reinvent over and over? I hear the vigor in this season of your professional career and some people might go, I didn't have that sort of rigor in my 20s. How are you holding on to that level of creativity?
Carl Lubbe: and curiosity and then even courage. to have those moments of recreation and go. Well, how good could this get or how interesting would this be to pursue this?
Fay Niewiadomski: you know, one of my interests is variety.
Carl Lubbe: Hmm.
Fay Niewiadomski: and risk. And. this is not something that Every personality has a different... core preference.
Carl Lubbe: Hmm.
Fay Niewiadomski: Some people want certainty, some people want variety, some people want love and security For me it's this variety. And what does variety mean? Life can be very boring.
Fay Niewiadomski: if you stop learning. you begin in my philosophy is that you you begin to die you stop growing when you stop learning And the the thing that keeps us youthful is to keep learning to keep discovering new things. I love having conversations with my grandchildren. My grandchildren range in age from 23 all the way down to 11. And I maintain.
Fay Niewiadomski: genuine communication with them not just hi how are you sweetie we have conversations about you know What do they think of things?
Carl Lubbe: who
Fay Niewiadomski: How do they see the world? What challenges do they have? What are their worries and concerns about you know what the future has for them? and understanding the world from these different perspectives.
Fay Niewiadomski: so you can remain relevant not only in your career, But in your relationships, you can't walk into the office of a CEO. a president, a minister.
Fay Niewiadomski: and not be not not show that you are abreast of the latest developments could you not could you ever speak to anybody today without being reasonably literate about AI, what it is and what it isn't.
Fay Niewiadomski: and taking the time to study it and understand it, certainly you're not going to master it, but to be able to have an intelligent, informed conversation about it. How could you let go of that? Because then you're let go letting go of your connection with the reality of the world.
Fay Niewiadomski: you're no longer You become irrelevant. And that feeling is reciprocated because If you become irrelevant. then why should people bother talking to you? What do you have to offer?
Fay Niewiadomski: What's that new edge? that that you have. that plus your wisdom which is a depth of knowledge, good judgment about what risks. to take and what risks not to take That is what AI cannot deliver, but as leaders we can and should, and that that has to become.
Fay Niewiadomski: what we pursue. a simple -minded infantile approach to leadership, which is right and wrong and I know best. is just you know infantile.
Fay Niewiadomski: That's what it is.
Carl Lubbe: Amen. And that... And not the best parts of infancy. Because again, the thing I really connect with in your story with your grandkids and in your children as well is that you have this curious posture.
Carl Lubbe: You're asking them questions. You're not saying, gather around. Let me just talk at you. You're gathering to say, let let's have a real conversation. Let me ask questions. As we move that into your marketplace experience around this consultancy that you've had as the founder of ICTN you know since 1993, I'd be curious.
Carl Lubbe: in your new book there's decisions that matter rethink reimagine reset your life How are you translating that into this next generation of marketplace leaders?
Carl Lubbe: How are you using the book and the thesis to help them do that?
Fay Niewiadomski: The book. first of all the symbology is the phoenix
Carl Lubbe: Mm hmm.
Fay Niewiadomski: You know to rec recreate yourself But there are three pillars that I believe define leadership. at and i and i call that leaders for any season the three elements are competence courage and compassion And. they don't work separately they need to work together just like a chemical interaction When I talk about competence competence means
Fay Niewiadomski: It's not a one -time thing. It's not a degree. It's not a diploma. It's not a certification. It's a process of unending learning. So you remain relevant. So you remain connected to the real world.
Fay Niewiadomski: but competence by itself. is inadequate if you don't have the courage. to exercise that competence.
Carl Lubbe: who
Fay Niewiadomski: Bye. saying, no, this is something that... is not ethical. or this is something that is going to be harmful. or this is something that will have consequences that we can't control or con contain.
Fay Niewiadomski: and have the courage. to speak out and speak up. The third piece is compassion because you can be extremely capable.
Fay Niewiadomski: you can be very courageous. but our translation of what courage means. can turn two brutality can turn to violence if it's not modulated by compassion.
Fay Niewiadomski: and compassion first for ourselves. remain Remember that you're human. Don't fall into the trap of hubris, of thinking that you are a god you're not.
Fay Niewiadomski: And we know what happened to all those people who had the hubris. to imagine that they were gods. compassion keeps us focused on our humanity and we extend the same the same kindness of humanity to other people to recognize that they too Have emotions they too have dreams they too have worries and concerns and suffering
Fay Niewiadomski: And unless we are able to extend that kindness to other human beings, It has to begin with us, because if you're not kind to yourself, you project the most hateful parts of your personality onto other people.
Carl Lubbe: So, so true. Man, would you mind maybe unpacking that just a little bit more? If you're unkind to yourself, you will project that on other people. What has been your kind of lived experience, either again, professionally or personally, where this has been true for you? Or maybe you've seen somebody unwind that and move away from a brutality towards others because they found a new way to be kind to themselves.
Fay Niewiadomski: The. the worst leaders. are the ones who are still living. In. their ego self. One of the examples I give in my book is that somebody who is a very important person.
Fay Niewiadomski: has a lot of telephones in their palace not their home their palace And those telephones keep ringing. And someone asked, why why doesn't anyone answer the phones? You have a lot of people working here. Why aren't the phones being answered?
Fay Niewiadomski: The response. I... e When the phones ring I know that people still need me.
Fay Niewiadomski: And what is the leverage? that they have when people need you. you now have the leverage, you have the control. to either Give them money.
Fay Niewiadomski: or not. And many of these people, their leverage they have. is you know financial power They don't pay their bills. They have people do a lot of work for them that they don't pay for.
Fay Niewiadomski: And they feel quite okay to do that. because They... there. self -worth they have never been able to identify.
Fay Niewiadomski: who they are. who they want to be. and to bring those two pieces together into a Whom? balanced.
Fay Niewiadomski: healthy human ego.
Carl Lubbe: Yeah.
Fay Niewiadomski: that goes from the ego to a more... conscious awareness. that you're not a god.
Carl Lubbe: Yeah. That's so true.
Fay Niewiadomski: And so.
Carl Lubbe: Hmm.
Fay Niewiadomski: you know the The ability to hurt others seems to be their understanding of what power is.
Carl Lubbe: You know zero -sum thinking I win, you lose. If you win, I absolutely lose, as opposed to third way thinking of we could both win if we would just be compassionate to ourselves and each other.
Fay Niewiadomski: Yes.
Fay Niewiadomski: But there are people who have changed as well. End. The example I can give is someone who was an ex -minister. and was very... was was the... see you over bank A big bang?
Fay Niewiadomski: And that person was so
Fay Niewiadomski: convinced that they were the most intelligent person. in that organization and the meetings. were literally monologues. There was no conversation. There was a monologue of them talking and people were not really listening or absorbing.
Fay Niewiadomski: So I happen to be a one -on -one private coach to that person. And one day I... I said. Will you give me permission to ask you a question?
Fay Niewiadomski: And I remained silent. Of course, I was asking many questions, but this particular question.
Fay Niewiadomski: And they said yes, and I waited for the uncomfortable silence to get the yes. And then I said, when was the last time? You remember being absolutely wrong about anything.
Fay Niewiadomski: And eyes went all over the place in confusion.
Fay Niewiadomski: And I kept silent.
Fay Niewiadomski: And. Later that day, someone called me. and said, what did you do? I got an apology for the first time in my entire career here from that person.
Fay Niewiadomski: so it When I say courage... Sometimes we don't have the courage to hold up the mirror to people because that person could have been angry, I could have lost my contract.
Fay Niewiadomski: I was a consultant And so fear... keeps us behind that barrier. of we can be competent, we can be good, we know exactly what to do, but we don't necessarily have the courage to do it.
Fay Niewiadomski: for fear of Losing. for fear of not being liked, for fear of being rejected, for fear of not getting a contract, we could just... hundreds and thousands of fears that we have.
Fay Niewiadomski: But until you overcome that and recognize what is it that keeps you Go back to competence. You see why it's a chemistry that works together You need to be really good at what you do.
Fay Niewiadomski: So you're not easily replaced by AI or any other person.
Carl Lubbe: Mm hmm. have the developed muscle of the compassion in the third part of the chemistry. to go oh i don't want to leave this leader where they are because this will be an incredibly unfulfilling way to lead and also it will hurt the people around them so i will have the courage to show them the compassion and the organization the compassion it requires to not leave them in this ill state in which i find them And and what a beautiful question.
Fay Niewiadomski: Exactly.
Fay Niewiadomski: Yes.
Fay Niewiadomski: And...
Carl Lubbe: Yeah, that that when's the last time you acknowledged you did something wrong? What a powerful question. so ah Dr. Fay, i'd I'd love to ask you one more question, if I may.
Carl Lubbe: In the litany of great questions that you've already you know shared with us in in our brief conversation, I would love to ask, what's a question? that you found has shaped your life that, you know, either a parent or a leader or a friend has asked you? And it may be something as simple as, hey, do you want to go for coffee all the way to what are you doing with your life? But is there a question that kind of comes rushing to the front of your mind?
Carl Lubbe: It goes, oh, I remember this person asked me this question. And maybe I've used it now with other people and it's shaped my work and my world.
Fay Niewiadomski: if you want to do your PhD at Oxford University. i can I can facilitate that for you. Would you like to do that?
Carl Lubbe: And who asked you that question?
Fay Niewiadomski: And my answer was no. my professor.
Carl Lubbe: And your answer was no, really.
Fay Niewiadomski: and ah My answer was no.
Carl Lubbe: Okay.
Fay Niewiadomski: And my answer was no because I was doing I wanted to do... neuroscience and I was doing a degree in English literature, which I found very easy. for me.
Fay Niewiadomski: I was getting you know straight A's. And it wasn't i didn't I didn't feel particularly inspired by that and I was being offered to do a PhD in that field. But that's not what I wanted to do. That is not who I am.
Fay Niewiadomski: you know, wanted to be or that's not where I saw the direction of my life going. And I said no to that. And, you know, it's the kind of the same thing happened when I resigned from a deanship. People couldn't understand.
Fay Niewiadomski: Why would you design resign from a deanship? You must have been fired, of course. And that was not the case. but you know stand be It takes a lot of courage to be yourself.
Fay Niewiadomski: and that's probably the hardest of all because Not everybody is going to like you and you need to grow up and realize that. you're not going to win the popularity contest. Leadership is not popularity.
Fay Niewiadomski: leadership is is being in charge first of all of yourself. And second, If you are working in the public arena, if you're a consultant, if you are a coach, if you are a CEO of your company.
Fay Niewiadomski: the The ability to look outside yourself and ask what are the consequences of your decision on other people? And this is not something we do in the early part of our leadership development.
Fay Niewiadomski: I have to admit.
Carl Lubbe: Hmm.
Fay Niewiadomski: But. There are many decisions when I look back and I say, Those were terrible decisions and I and I regret them because you know, maybe maybe it was the correct thing to do, but maybe it wasn't delivered in the correct way.
Fay Niewiadomski: And eventually... when I wanted. when I saw that someone wasn't performing in my company, that they didn't really fit in.
Fay Niewiadomski: I... e uh I would invite them for a private meeting and I would say, you know, I don't think you're happy here. I don't think you're finding personal fulfillment in doing this.
Fay Niewiadomski: I'd love to help you find out what it is that you would like to do. What? you know not in not Not at ICTN.
Carl Lubbe: Hmm.
Fay Niewiadomski: and I am still speak those people still speak to me today. because it was an opportunity for them To leave with dignity it was an opportunity for them to find out what mattered to them and to go and find something bigger and better. in other places that fitted you know, what they wanted to be. Why did I need an unhappy person around me?
Fay Niewiadomski: And why did I need to be mean to them?
Carl Lubbe: No. Yeah. and And I love that your example there completely encapsulates your thesis of you needed to be capable to have the conversation. You need to be courageous to allow them to move on or give them a way to move on and then compassionate enough to go, I will walk alongside you.
Fay Niewiadomski: Peace.
Carl Lubbe: And then, you know, ah this is ah why it makes so much sense that you and I would be in the same space on this podcast, because I think all of that is also tangential and intersectional to curiosity because you're curious about them and their path and their future.
Fay Niewiadomski: Yes. Yes.
Carl Lubbe: Well, Dr. Fay, this has been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for joining. And for anybody listening, if you're as fascinated as I am, I would deeply encourage you to go and get a copy of Decisions That Matter, Rethink, Reimagine, and Reset Your Life.
Carl Lubbe: Dr. Fay, thank you so much for being with us today here on One Great Question.
Fay Niewiadomski: It was my pleasure.
