Transcript
Carl Lubbe: Hey friends, back welcome back to another episode of One Great Question. And I feel a little bit like I am saying the same thing over and over. It feels like Groundhog Day, mostly because every time I start one of these podcasts, I'm so excited because the person I'm in front of is so fascinating.
Carl Lubbe: But I feel like I may have hit a ceiling and now I'm in trouble because today i am with one of my newest and favorite friends, Ms.
Blakeley Vaughn: Thank
Carl Lubbe: Blakely Vaughn. And she's had a fascinating career, which is not typical for most people, I think, now in our generation, where we will switch and swap industries or companies pretty repeatedly.
Carl Lubbe: She got in kind of at the front line level and worked her way all the way into an executive position at every woman in your life's favorite company or one of their favorite companies. It's my wife's, my 10-year-old daughter. She says this is a place she goes in to feel confident. She loves all the signage. She feels... uh really warm and invited ah my son who's a 13 year old goes i think i feel accepted when i go in with her and so i was like ah and so this magic company is called sephora and uh blakely was there for um over 20 years and so worked for them in l la in new york and most recently in atlanta And so it has a fascinating career at an incredible company. But I would say it's probably one of the least interesting things about her as a whole, as a person. And so Blakely, just want to say thanks for being a part of the One Great Question podcast.
Blakeley Vaughn: Oh, thank you for having me. It's honor to be here.
Carl Lubbe: Yeah. Well, you and I were introduced in a very strange way. And the people are normally thinking, OK, well, maybe calls an executive coach and Blakely has spent all this time at Sephora. Maybe they, you know, crossed paths at a networking event or Carl was doing a lunch and learn at Sephora just for the free samples because his daughter daughter told him he had to. um But actually, we met through a fellow South African, one Eckhart van der Linde. And what is it that Eckhart does for you, Blakely?
Blakeley Vaughn: um Well, the simplest thing is he's my tennis coach, but I think, you know, he's also like, my cheerleader and my mental health advisor and just an all around wonderful, wonderful person to spend a Friday afternoon with taking a lot of, you know, a lot of energy out on a tennis ball.
Carl Lubbe: Yeah.
Carl Lubbe: Yeah, yeah. So Eckhart and I have been friends now for 20 years. We met when he was a student at Oglethorpe here in Atlanta and was friends with one of my best friends, also happens to be a South African. And then over this course of this friendship, um I've gone in and out of shape, you know, 4,000 times.
Carl Lubbe: And in one of these seasons where I cared a little bit more about it, I was like, hey, you're really good at tennis and teach other people. i would like you to do that for me. And he was like, yeah, yeah, let's do that.
Carl Lubbe: And so I would recommend to all people, pay your friends, find out what they're really good at and strangers willing to pay them.
Blakeley Vaughn: Yeah. Yeah.
Carl Lubbe: So pay your friends. And so he he fights me every time that I send him money on them. I was like, it's your literal job. I'm going to pay you to do the thing for me. Now, maybe you get a discount or maybe you pay full fare.
Carl Lubbe: Whatever you're doing between you and your friends is your business. But Pay your friends the thing that they're really good at because then you get to hang out with your friends. And so he kicks my ass on a tennis court fairly regularly.
Blakeley Vaughn: Yeah.
Carl Lubbe: And in one of these sessions, he was saying, because I was asking him, how's the rest of it? Because he's been building his business in Atlanta after moving back from South Africa a year ago. And he was like, yeah, I was just in this session with this this incredible human.
Carl Lubbe: Actually, and it has that moment where you've ever done this, where you've got a friend and and know this other friend and you're like, oh, they should know each other.
Blakeley Vaughn: yeah
Carl Lubbe: And he brought you up as like this you know powerhouse of an executive at Sephora, also apparently a powerhouse baseline game that he's looking into shape. And he said, she's just a good time. And I think you guys would hit it off. And so that's how we were introduced.
Blakeley Vaughn: Yeah. When Eckhart says, oh, wow, to you from across the court, it's like you've you've won the day.
Carl Lubbe: You've won.
Blakeley Vaughn: Yeah.
Carl Lubbe: Yeah.
Blakeley Vaughn: And yes, i can if as soon as he told me about you and he didn't have to say much, I was like, OK, yep, let's meet.
Carl Lubbe: Yeah. You don't need anything else.
Blakeley Vaughn: What's his number?
Carl Lubbe: He's like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. This guy likes to pay for lunch. I'm in. That's great.
Blakeley Vaughn: Yeah.
Carl Lubbe: Yeah, I'm good for that.
Blakeley Vaughn: Yeah.
Carl Lubbe: um No, but he had raved. and And, you know, obviously I was fascinated, mostly because I'll be very honest. i have a 10 year old girl. And so we came back from my, you know, hitting time with Eckhart and you and I had exchanged, you know, a quick message after he'd connected the two of us.
Blakeley Vaughn: Yes.
Carl Lubbe: And Caitlin was like, oh, so dad, who are you talking to today? Cause they'll talk through my, my calendar of events for the day. And I was like, oh I've got, you know, maybe a new friend Blakely. Oh, like what is Blakely up to? It's like, I think she works at Sephora.
Carl Lubbe: And she goes, she works where? And it was in that moment. I was like, oh, okay.
Blakeley Vaughn: Time stopped.
Carl Lubbe: Like, yeah, and the time stopped. i have met, a superhero. And by the way, I've gotten to meet, and this will hopefully make you feel great, Blakely.
Blakeley Vaughn: Yeah.
Carl Lubbe: In the past, I've gotten to meet one Miss Taylor Swift. And Caitlin reacted the same to me having a meeting with you as me telling her the story of me and Taylor having a conversation years and years ago.
Carl Lubbe: So just so you know, like, you know, you've got big brownie points in my house.
Blakeley Vaughn: yeah Yeah. I mean, Sephora has done so, oh, so much for me in my, in my life. And I'm for sure the favorite, you know, auntie. And I may have bribed a few now best friends into my life.
Blakeley Vaughn: Like, who knows? You know, it doesn't matter where it starts. It's a matter, you know, the journey is what matters.
Carl Lubbe: Exactly.
Blakeley Vaughn: But yeah,
Carl Lubbe: That's right. Yeah, the intentions were pure. Who knows what the intentions were?
Blakeley Vaughn: Yeah.
Carl Lubbe: Yeah.
Blakeley Vaughn: Yeah. But I think a lot of friends have started as like, ah you know, I handed them a sheet mask and was like, we should have a drink or we've got for lunch.
Carl Lubbe: Yeah, that's right.
Blakeley Vaughn: Like here, I'll bring you a goodie bag just to make sure it's worth your while.
Carl Lubbe: Yeah, yeah. Now for, you know, any of the guys who are also listening to this, obviously any of our our listeners are probably proud customers at Sephora, but for them as well, you've you've had this really interesting professional rise in the last, you know, two decades.
Carl Lubbe: And by the way, meaning that, you know, you started at Sephora when you were, you know, six.
Blakeley Vaughn: Yeah.
Carl Lubbe: So well done that rise.
Blakeley Vaughn: yeah before Yeah.
Carl Lubbe: um
Blakeley Vaughn: Before child labor laws were put into.
Carl Lubbe: They were not a big thing in LA. They're like, yeah, we'll let you come out here.
Blakeley Vaughn: No.
Carl Lubbe: Nope. Yeah. So I know in you telling me your story, it starts off like in the stores and then you get into these positions of management. And then, you know, in the last season being um in a VP seat, what for you, you know, the first question we like to ask on the podcast is if the eight year old version of you got to hang out with this version of you today.
Carl Lubbe: what would be the thing that they're like, in awe of that you're like, Oh my gosh, I can't believe we got to do this or we're doing this today.
Blakeley Vaughn: Yeah.
Carl Lubbe: What's the thing that they would be like, I'm so glad I stuck around and got to see this.
Blakeley Vaughn: Yeah.
Blakeley Vaughn: Yeah. I mean, I think I love this question because I think i she would just be blown away. I think, you know, living outside of Eugene, Oregon to you know, growing up with horses and dogs and having a wonderful country life to landing on Hollywood Boulevard in l LA and working for Sephora and doing a variety of other things in l LA.
Carl Lubbe: Mm-hmm.
Blakeley Vaughn: But then also moving to New York, like I i think she would be just you know, a kid would just be like, how, what, what do you do? Why do you do it?
Blakeley Vaughn: um But then you add on, you know, then you add all the yumminess that is and still is Sephora and the beauty industry and, you know, the events and brand launches and who you get to meet in the industry.
Blakeley Vaughn: It just, I i think she would be bowled over with, what? This this all came from
Carl Lubbe: Yeah.
Blakeley Vaughn: outside Eugene. um You know, but I would i also i have to say what I love about this question, and I'm sure you're familiar with this concept. um One of my good friends, JD Benson, therapist in Nashville, I think who you had the pleasure of meeting a while ago. But she introduced me to the parts theory, which is you know, when you you kind of we all walk around with these different parts of ourselves. And like the eight year old is such a beautiful part because I was thinking about this question.
Blakeley Vaughn: I observed like who was the first person to show up and say, oo now me, now me, now me. Let me answer. Let answer. And, you know, I observed like this version of Blakely that was just so like ecstatic to answer.
Carl Lubbe: Yes.
Blakeley Vaughn: And then I also witness this version of Blakely that was a little more timid and wanted to know what was the right way to answer first. Like it it was such a, this question is so dynamic because it, I had this, I went down this whole trail of like, oh, isn't that interesting?
Blakeley Vaughn: Like I did have that exuberant eight-year-old that was like, you moved where and you work for who? And you did, you've gotten to go do what? to like this other version that was like, what's the right way to answer this?
Blakeley Vaughn: And that was also a part of who I was as a child was, what's the right way?
Carl Lubbe: Yeah.
Blakeley Vaughn: I'm going to be observant. I'm going to see how this should go. So I just, I think that's such a wonderful question because it ah it evokes so much.
Carl Lubbe: yeah
Blakeley Vaughn: Yeah.
Carl Lubbe: Well, and I love, i haven't had a guest before talk about the duality of the different sides of their eight-year-old that typically it comes to that exuberant childlike thing, which is great. But then also, you know, kids who are like, well, we don't know how big the world is.
Carl Lubbe: And so we have to be cautious and we have to be observant and we have to think about.
Blakeley Vaughn: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Carl Lubbe: And so I also think about now, as you're kind of taking us down that path, In all of this, we hear success, right? We think, oh, like you climbed the ladder, you got to do the thing.
Carl Lubbe: You went to L.A. and New York and Atlanta. And I i know you and I have chatted, you've you know, you've done launches in Paris and, you know, different places in Europe. And so all of this feels very glamorous.
Carl Lubbe: It feels very, you know, we'll watch a Netflix about Emily in Paris and be like, oh, wouldn't that be the life? Isn't that interesting?
Blakeley Vaughn: Yeah.
Carl Lubbe: um But there is a part of that eight year old who's going, you know, did did you get what you wanted while you were in it?
Blakeley Vaughn: Yeah.
Carl Lubbe: Were you getting to enjoy it? And so is there any part of that journey where you're talking to the eight year old and going, hey, there's there's all of this. And I really did enjoy it. I was really present to it. But to the next question there is, you know, we'll we'll want to think through, well, but what did success cost Blakely?
Blakeley Vaughn: Yeah.
Blakeley Vaughn: Right.
Carl Lubbe: And it's okay to you know speak both to the eight year old version and maybe the 25 year old version and the current version of ourselves and go, you know, i I paid it and then ask the question, well, what did it cost and would I pay that again?
Blakeley Vaughn: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Carl Lubbe: So I'd be curious for you as you have this different season, because I know you've also told me in the past that, you know, what brought you to l L.A. was, you know, entertainment and maybe modeling and some of the other stuff.
Carl Lubbe: And as you made those transitions, what did having success cost Blakely in different seasons of your life?
Blakeley Vaughn: Yeah, it's a it's it's such a good question to ask yourself because, you know, everything does have a cost like like that is, you know, there is a trade off for almost everything.
Blakeley Vaughn: And that's not a bad thing, by the way. I think we say that sometimes as adults and we think that just means like it's, you know.
Carl Lubbe: Thank you.
Blakeley Vaughn: it's always a pejorative. It's not, but, um, you know, i would say through, you know, through all of those gritty lessons and the peaks and the valleys of, you know, working through the corporate ladder, working for different types of leaders. Um, I think I told you like the, the irony of my 25 years at Sephora was the name on the door stayed the same, but I actually had very different roles um throughout the organization.
Carl Lubbe: Thank you.
Blakeley Vaughn: And what a blessing. ah Like where I started in my PR or comms career at the very beginning and then what I was doing at the end, entirely different segments of public relations and external communications, which were like, it's the most beautiful arc.
Blakeley Vaughn: I'm so grateful for it all. And But, you know, one of the things that took me, i think, a little too long to learn, um but I got there, um was that you have to be really careful where you outsource your worthiness, your success, your accolades, like really be observant.
Carl Lubbe: Thank you.
Blakeley Vaughn: It doesn't mean that, you know, it I'll explain this a little bit better. it, I think what I was seeking and early to middle career was a lot around acceptance acceptance and approval.
Blakeley Vaughn: And i was outsourcing it to leaders. Not a bad thing entirely, except for some of that work has to be done on your own terms or with your own within your own confines.
Carl Lubbe: Yeah.
Blakeley Vaughn: You can't or outsource all ah all of it. And again, it wasn't an entirely bad thing. i i i if that was me stumbling and I still achieved, how cool is that?
Blakeley Vaughn: And so, you know, like I I'm I did achieve and I'm so proud of what I put together. and And it was built with really, for the most part, fantastic female leadership and amazing community um and a culture that fostered this. So like it wasn't a total loss, but I think it took a lot longer and cultivating kind of my own internal calibration of what does success look like within this moment, this time,
Blakeley Vaughn: this, this, this particular title. um And like I said, I eventually got there. ah But I also think that can be like, you know, we can kind of like dial that off as like, oh, that's a younger person's game. Like that happens to a lot of younger people. But I mean, I, I look around and I have, you know, men and women I work with and really adore. And, and we have these conversations about like,
Blakeley Vaughn: you know, how much are we outsourcing that we probably should be thinking about our own calibration of success, or our own calibration of worthiness and, and what a beautiful gift it is to reflect in that way.
Carl Lubbe: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, really well said. And I'm curious in that moment as you're thinking about what you would consider like intrinsic motivation versus in extrinsic, right?
Carl Lubbe: Like, I think this is I'm worthy. And from that place, that posture, that starting point, I'm going to get to do good work as opposed to for I think a lot of us, if we've you know been at work for more than four and a half seconds, it's like, well, if they told me good job, then I feel good about it.
Blakeley Vaughn: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Carl Lubbe: How did you find yourself in positions where, oh, you're, you know, at the beginning, you might not be the boss, like you're hearing this from somebody else. And then in other seasons of your career, you probably have quite a lot of ah autonomy and people who are, you know, reporting to you.
Carl Lubbe: How do you find that that adjusts that? Because before it's like kind of top down, they're gonna give me my worth if I run the store really well here in LA. And in another one, it's like, oh, I'm having to calibrate now other people's worth who are reporting to me, but there's still like an executive above me.
Blakeley Vaughn: Okay.
Carl Lubbe: And so like you're kind of sandwiched in the middle. So I almost wonder if in that middle season of our career, your late 20s and 30s and 40s, where you're not yet, oh, I don't own the business.
Blakeley Vaughn: Okay.
Carl Lubbe: I'm not sitting in the C-suite where I'm kind of looking at the whole landscape.
Blakeley Vaughn: Okay.
Blakeley Vaughn: who
Carl Lubbe: I'm now I'm smushed in between two layers of this corporate cake. How did you find that affecting your identity during that season?
Blakeley Vaughn: hey
Blakeley Vaughn: Um, it's a great question. It, for me, um,
Blakeley Vaughn: what I started to find myself doing is i call it unclenching a bit. Like I unclenched my grip a little bit and got,
Blakeley Vaughn: I started to build community around myself that was not necessarily the same industry, but like-minded women who I could... rather than just kind of be a single note, a line of information, my noise plus, you know, whoever I'm working with or working for, i started to build in New York, predominantly a great network of women that some, a lot of them came out of beauty, but some of them were adjacent entertainment or agency adjacent. And,
Blakeley Vaughn: was able to use them basically as a sounding board and because our struggles ultimately are not that unique. And, you know, we we are able to, when we're like two clicks away from something, be able to, I think be much more helpful and more curious and more collaborative you know,
Carl Lubbe: Mm-hmm.
Blakeley Vaughn: I really, this was in New York with my, the role in marketing, this whole world opened up where I was able to just like, like I said, unclench, use my community here also how they're navigating the pressures of their realm. And, you know, just under like, take a breath that it's, it's,
Blakeley Vaughn: It's not so unique. It's usually workable. Not everything is forever. um And there will always be a solution. um I will say that I also was able to shadow really amazing leaders, female leaders that did an exceptional job of explaining ah their rationale or influences around their decision-making that that was a mentality that I was able to adopt. And it like shadowing how a leader makes a decision almost gives you permission to relax and lean into the fact that like,
Blakeley Vaughn: we're all going to be fine. We're not saving lives. We are going to make the best decision based usually on a variety of factors. Some of them might not always be fun.
Blakeley Vaughn: And it just, i yeah, Carly, it was about this idea of like, usually situations are not very unique, like that special or unique that like, there's usually a way to navigate through.
Carl Lubbe: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Blakeley Vaughn: yeah, In New York was really just an exceptional moment of finding community, like-mindedness, and a way to navigate together.
Carl Lubbe: Yeah, I don't I'm I'm I'm sure that you know, but I don't know if anybody listening to this realize just what a cheat code you just gave everybody.
Carl Lubbe: and that And I really do mean that because you're having you're you know speaking it out loud and I'm like, OK, we we need to like stop right here and and really highlight it because identity is a team sport.
Blakeley Vaughn: Okay.
Blakeley Vaughn: Yeah.
Carl Lubbe: And we don't view it that way, right?
Blakeley Vaughn: Yeah.
Carl Lubbe: And this is one of the reasons why you know loneliness is now considered you know this epidemic, especially in the US, especially in our culture.
Blakeley Vaughn: Yeah.
Carl Lubbe: And for you to move from l LA to New York and go, oh, it could have shaken everything. I could have shaken your professional identity, your personal identity.
Blakeley Vaughn: yeah
Carl Lubbe: And what you did is like, oh, I will put effort and energy, time and capital into finding and building a community of people
Blakeley Vaughn: Yeah.
Carl Lubbe: that I need in this season, because we all need community in every season. But in that season, you're like, I need it for this thing. My identity, again, as a person, as a professional in this new place. And it might have been that, like, you know, invention was the or necessity was the mother of invention.
Carl Lubbe: You needed it. And so, you know, but for a lot of us I don't think we understand the necessity of it. And so we don't go and engineer that. And then 10 years later on, you wake up, click on HBO and watch a you know episode of Friends and go, why don't I have that?
Blakeley Vaughn: Yeah.
Carl Lubbe: It's kind of because, well, we're unintentionally unengineering friendship by just leaning into identities of solo sports. I need to figure this out for myself. And once I fully arrive, then magically community will just flock to me like a moth to a flame.
Blakeley Vaughn: yeah Yeah, absolutely.
Carl Lubbe: Yeah.
Blakeley Vaughn: You know, we, this is, Separate. it's ah It's a whole train I could go down around AI, but like the thing I keep saying when I talk about all these like seamless, these new ways to make your life more seamless, whatever tool that is or whatever new um hack it is, it's friction is really ultimately very great for our life.
Carl Lubbe: Mm-hmm.
Blakeley Vaughn: And you know if if your whole goal is to make your life frictionless, then i think you're missing the point.
Carl Lubbe: Mm-hmm.
Blakeley Vaughn: And Community is such a wonderful solve for so many things. I mean, I can be very honest with you. It saved me professionally because I did the first two years of New York.
Blakeley Vaughn: i I had moved there not knowing anyone. And there was a moment where I sat, I can remember it clear as day on a park bench near the Met in Central Park going, i think I might have to throw in the towel. I just don't know if I can do the city. I don't know if I can do this job. I feel completely out I'm working for one of the most glamorous companies in the U S I'm working for an LVMH brand. I'm walking down Madison Avenue every day. And like, what am I doing here? Who am I fooling?
Blakeley Vaughn: But,
Carl Lubbe: Mm-hmm.
Blakeley Vaughn: Almost as quickly as I had that conversation on that park bench with myself, i did meet a few ladies in the industry and those ladies quickly became lifelong friends. And it just, it was a, you're right. It's a very good cheat. It is, but it's so important. And I think being vulnerable in relationships opens up like the aperture just gets so big. Right. And you can, there's nothing we can't work through together. yeah,
Blakeley Vaughn: And kind of to bring this all the way back around, if I didn't have some of that friction, i don't know if I didn't have all of those kind of really tough points that got me to that park bench.
Blakeley Vaughn: Who knows if I would have catapulted and found that group? I'm, you know, I i got there because it got pretty painful. But the other side of it was phenomenal.
Carl Lubbe: Mm-hmm.
Blakeley Vaughn: Like ah a New York life that led to a life in Atlanta. Like what what a great... trajectory, but it took a lot of friction to get there. And, um, you know, that's, that's where like these blessings in the peaks and the valleys, like just so thankful for them.
Blakeley Vaughn: It takes, you know, maybe a little bit longer to walk away to see it, but, uh, we're very lucky when we get to look back and say, that was good. Okay. I made it through that.
Carl Lubbe: Yeah. Yeah. And the beauty of right is is all of those separate moments bring you to kind of where you are today. And whether you call it, you know, a gratitude exercise or being present or, you know whatever Monica you want to put on it is the only life you have is the one you're living literally in this moment.
Blakeley Vaughn: Right.
Blakeley Vaughn: who
Carl Lubbe: And now this moment, and now in this moment, everything else is, you know, a memory or a prediction. But the only thing you have is right now. And one of the things I've really enjoyed about our friendship is that um for somebody who's lived what I would consider in pretty fast spaces, LA, New York, Atlanta, as it's grown into, and then these corporate spaces, it could be that you have like high FOMO and it's like, you're looking over the person's shoulder and you're not really ever present there.
Carl Lubbe: None of that is who you are.
Blakeley Vaughn: yeah
Carl Lubbe: And so I'm fascinated because I think all joy, all contentment is rooted in this idea of can you be present to the moment? Can your head be where your feet are? And so I'd be curious in this season, what are you trying most to be present to? Like if this is what your success has caught cost you you, know, the friction in the past of finding your identity and the hard work of creating community and then the hard work of maintaining that and being vulnerable to that community.
Carl Lubbe: In this moment today, what do you find yourself going? i really am trying to be present to this either personally or professionally.
Blakeley Vaughn: Yeah. i I use this term when you and were talking earlier, i want to play with my Legos. I've, you know, I've collected this amazing set and like they can't sit in the box anymore.
Carl Lubbe: No.
Blakeley Vaughn: I need to play with my Legos. So, you know, in this current season, you know, an amazing 25 years at Sephora, an amazing team, fantastic leadership.
Blakeley Vaughn: And to say, you know, i loved everything. love this and I'm going to go Try something different. and is This is just such a unique season for my myself and um in my life.
Carl Lubbe: Thank you.
Blakeley Vaughn: And to have this beautifully curated career, an amazing leadership group, an amazing team, so proud of the work, the work will continue.
Blakeley Vaughn: And to be able to say, i love you, I'm leaving you, and I'm going to go do something different, um super empowering. And I want to run with that. I want to run with this idea of how how good can it get?
Blakeley Vaughn: I want to play even more. So, and, you know, i think that can be really scary for people to ask of themselves.
Carl Lubbe: Yeah. Yeah.
Blakeley Vaughn: And I think it can It can also sound a little highbrow, like the how good can you get? It's like kind of like tangential, like toxic positivity sometimes. But it is true. It doesn't mean that there aren't things going on. Life is still lifing. But, um you know, this idea of like this kind of unbridled excitement for what the next chapter looks like is that's that's where I'm at.
Blakeley Vaughn: I'm really and sitting in that excitement. It's kind of feels like, um, the energy in the air before a really good thunderstorm. Like it's, it's that it's, it's, um, that's the season I'm in and doing, doing things with intention.
Carl Lubbe: don't know.
Blakeley Vaughn: i mean, um,
Blakeley Vaughn: My team at Sephora, my friends know, like I joke that tennis is my entire personality right now. But also, i think I probably should update that and say, like, just being excited for this next chapter and what the what can be is probably more of my entire personality right now.
Blakeley Vaughn: um
Carl Lubbe: move
Blakeley Vaughn: Using, like I said, all these building blocks that I'm so proud of what I've amassed. But now it's time to play with my Legos.
Carl Lubbe: Yeah, well, and like you said, you've got such an impressive collection of skills and experiences that the Legos do feel really fun.
Blakeley Vaughn: Yeah. Yeah.
Carl Lubbe: And the the we phrase your question in in our work. um in a similar way and it sprouted as opposed to you having high intentionality and choosing the season.
Carl Lubbe: My question came, you know, years and years ago when I was laid off and I'd gone to my buddy kind of all morose and, you know, you're in Nashville right now.
Blakeley Vaughn: yeah
Carl Lubbe: He lives in Nashville. I'd driven up to him and he was kind enough to cook a really good steak dinner.
Blakeley Vaughn: yeah
Carl Lubbe: And I was just in my feels and having a pity party. And, uh, And he goes, you're asking all the wrong questions for an incredibly curious person who asks great questions.
Blakeley Vaughn: Yep.
Carl Lubbe: Your question right now is garbage. And I was like, hey, I know we're friends, but i why are you kicking me while I'm down kind of joke? He was like, no, like, let's be honest. What are you asking right now? It's like, well, what should I do next? He's like, it's a terrible question.
Carl Lubbe: And so, you know, he and I unpacked that later, but I came to see that when we say, what should I do? It's almost always rooted in shame. Like, what should I do if there was enough, if I had enough talent, well, I should do this, or I don't have enough money.
Carl Lubbe: Well, I need to do this because I should do this. It's always wrapped in some sort of scarcity or shame. And sometimes that's necessary. Like it's it's a necessary first question.
Blakeley Vaughn: yeah mm-hmm
Carl Lubbe: But if there was a better question and he's like, and I think this is a much better question to to yours, ah to to the same point you're making, he phrased it in, what would you try if you knew you couldn't fail?
Carl Lubbe: And like you said, it doesn't it has that element of childlikeness. Like, well, would you try to climb that tree if you knew you wouldn't fall off? Or would you you know run a 100 meter dash if you didn't feel like you'd look stupid and you you might have the possibility of winning?
Carl Lubbe: Like, what would you try if you knew you couldn't fail?
Blakeley Vaughn: Right.
Carl Lubbe: Because mostly where we get stuck in our heads as adults is only if we get the prize is it not failing, only if we win the championship. And one of my favorite things is to see athletes ask these questions. um the yeah The Greek ah the greek ah basketball player whose name I'm blanking on right now, but he played for the Bucs and he won a championship and the next year they didn't make it.
Carl Lubbe: And he's like, so everybody's a failure if they don't win the championship.
Blakeley Vaughn: right
Carl Lubbe: And you could just see the incredulity. He's like, we're lucky to get to play this sport. And I got to play it all year with some of my best friends. And we won a lot and we got better. So everything's failure if you're not the one person holding the MVP ring on the one team that won the championship.
Carl Lubbe: And he's like, I i just don't believe in your worldview then.
Blakeley Vaughn: Right.
Carl Lubbe: And I just love that. I was like, the attempt is the win. Being in the game, playing the sport, playing you know with your Legos and living this life. That's what would you try if you knew you couldn't fail because failure is actually like very, a very small subset. Failing is just going, i don't even want to try anything. I don't want to ask this question. I don't want to be intentional or pay attention in this season. And so I love that you're in this space to go.
Carl Lubbe: What's next? And, you know, full full vulnerability here. I'm like, I think Blakely should come do curiosity stuff because, you know, we're fun and that would be fun Lego to play with along the dozens of other games you want to play.
Carl Lubbe: um And so just putting it on record there on the podcast that in you know five years, Blakely has had a hostile takeover of curiosity and she's running it much better with my son, Charlie, and my daughter, Caitlin.
Blakeley Vaughn: Yeah.
Blakeley Vaughn: I'm
Blakeley Vaughn: sure.
Carl Lubbe: It happened in this podcast because I was like, you you could try a thing. I know you're not going to fail. And then Carl is now not necessary. So I'm just going to speak that into existence because I love that future.
Blakeley Vaughn: um sure
Carl Lubbe: ah ah But all jokes aside, I think this then also leads us into our other favorite question, which is, you know, as you as you're in these different seasons, you know, what what did the eight year old think and then what did that success cost you?
Blakeley Vaughn: Yeah.
Carl Lubbe: The other thing I like to think about is almost, you know, the 88 version, 88 year old version of Blakely is now looking back at your life. And maybe doing an audit of, man, I remember when this person asked me this question, or I remember when this person posed this question.
Carl Lubbe: I will forever now have this Jeff Goines question, my buddy who asked, what would you try if you knew you couldn't fail? But I've also got dozens of other little questions that my kids have asked me and friends have asked me and, you know, ah a wait staff at a great restaurant has been like, well, have you tried this?
Blakeley Vaughn: yeah
Carl Lubbe: No, okay, changed my life.
Blakeley Vaughn: him
Carl Lubbe: When you think to a great question in your life, what's one that just comes screaming to the forefront? And it it could either have changed your life or just changed your dinner order. But what's the thing that kind of pops in for you as ah as a great question that changed something valuable for you?
Blakeley Vaughn: Yeah, it's the one that comes screaming to the front is what is it you're really trying to do? And there's some tonalities that you can throw in there.
Carl Lubbe: Hmm.
Blakeley Vaughn: You can make that playful. you can make that a little sobering. You can you can make that sound like maybe it evokes a parent's voice or a grandparent's voice. Like there's different versions of it.
Blakeley Vaughn: But the simplest is what is it you're really trying to do? Because. If you don't know, or if you haven't really done some self-reflection, then that's probably where you should start.
Blakeley Vaughn: And I think this is really good as solo discovery, but I think it's also great as a team stewardship stear dip um let's try again team stewardship question, a project stewardship question, um
Carl Lubbe: Yeah.
Carl Lubbe: hang on
Blakeley Vaughn: It's one that I, you know, i don't remember who asked me. All I remember is a wave of emotion came up and it was in a professional setting. So I really should think harder and probably write this person a thank you note. But I'm.
Blakeley Vaughn: It was it was back when I was in L.A. And I think I was on i think I thought I had a version of a trajectory I should head towards. And this person did not agree with me. And it was a bit of, um ah you know, let's like calibrate.
Blakeley Vaughn: um But I've used it nonstop because it actually for me. like I said, with self-reflection, it makes me look at what is what's really driving like this. Is it ego? Is it hope? Is it love? Is is it reconciliation?
Blakeley Vaughn: and then professionally, as a you know are we on the same level with effort? Are we driving towards the same outcomes? Are we trying to be helpful? Or are we trying to retaliate? I mean, hate to use that word, but like what are we truly trying to do? And so... Um, it's just one of my most favorite.
Blakeley Vaughn: Uh, and like I said, it has variety. Like if you're saying with a friend, you know, you can be playful, but it can also, you you're saying what you're already thinking, which is like, you know, with a friend who's maybe dating someone that is not interested.
Blakeley Vaughn: What are you really trying to do here? Like, you know, or a good, a good, uh, team leader can use it in a really like pragmatic way.
Carl Lubbe: Yeah.
Carl Lubbe: Yeah.
Blakeley Vaughn: so that's, that's my,
Carl Lubbe: By the way, if I can ask in the middle this, because you bring up a really fun example of like talking with your friend about somebody, maybe they're dating. I brought this up a couple of times to friends who are, I would assume, like I'm older than you are, but are generationally kind of around the same season.
Carl Lubbe: Do you remember the phrase DTR?
Carl Lubbe: I think I've made it up. i to In my mind, it feels like it was everywhere. And you're like the third or first fourth person that I've asked.
Blakeley Vaughn: Oh!
Carl Lubbe: I'm like, I don't know what DTR means. It meant define the relationship. Like you don't know you're friends or the not, are we dating? Are we friends? What are we doing here? And I love your question because i i can hear the playfulness of like, you know, me and maybe somebody I was interested in college going, hey, like, what what are we what are we doing here? Like, what's the intent?
Carl Lubbe: And it's like, in my mind, it's encapsulated by this DTR phrase. And I feel like I remember friends going, oh, you're about to go have a DTR?
Blakeley Vaughn: yeah
Carl Lubbe: Like, we're going to go have that define the relationship conversation. But I think I must have dreamt it because you're the fourth person I've asked and just like, no i don't know what you're talking about, Carl. So.
Blakeley Vaughn: No, but you also, first of all, you can't trust my memory. ah Like, or I was so late to an iPhone.
Carl Lubbe: Yeah.
Blakeley Vaughn: I didn't know what Google was for a long time. Like, don't, I'm no, I'm no tech historian.
Carl Lubbe: Okay.
Blakeley Vaughn: So,
Carl Lubbe: Okay. Well, if anybody's listening to this who remembers DTR, you can tell me on of the socials that I'm not crazy.
Blakeley Vaughn: a yeah.
Blakeley Vaughn: Drop it in the comments.
Carl Lubbe: No, but i love like I love what you're talking about, too, in like the variety or almost like you can use this and in tonality in almost any space. And I think it's also interesting to to think about when you hear...
Blakeley Vaughn: Yeah.
Carl Lubbe: Blakely's question, does it feel judgmental? Does it feel invitational? And I think a lot of that will tell you in your lived experience, in your history, has somebody used that as a knife or as a scalpel?
Carl Lubbe: Are they like trying to stab you or trying to save you?
Blakeley Vaughn: huh the
Carl Lubbe: And so, you know, you can, that's the beauty, I think, of questions is that they can be redeemed in a new context. So like, you know, if you had maybe an angry parental figure who's like, what are you trying to do?
Blakeley Vaughn: yeah
Carl Lubbe: And you're like, oh, I was just trying to clean up the kitchen and I'm making a mess. And OK, now I feel bad. And it's like is different than, you know, maybe in your adult life with a spouse. hey Like, what what what are we trying to do in here?
Carl Lubbe: Like, oh, I'm.
Blakeley Vaughn: Right.
Carl Lubbe: i'm And now all of a sudden we're, you know, cohabitating and working on the same problem in the kitchen. And so I love this idea of yours of like, what does it look like to explore the tonality of the same question in different environments over different seasons of your life?
Blakeley Vaughn: Yeah.
Blakeley Vaughn: Yeah. yeah
Carl Lubbe: Yeah.
Blakeley Vaughn: we i think currently um in kind of the age and space we're in there's a lot there's a lot of particularities around how things are delivered versus just, you know, deliveries can be so imperfect.
Blakeley Vaughn: and And life also will just deliver you things that are not in the package you want. But if you can look past it and say, like,
Carl Lubbe: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Blakeley Vaughn: Okay. What are the, you know, we have, we all have friends or family members that say things to us that maybe the delivery isn't perfect, but you probably, if you can take a breath, you can probably pass the grit. You could probably hear the love. You could probably hear the concern. You can probably taste the care.
Blakeley Vaughn: But, you know, the delivery can be imperfect. But right now we're very obsessed with, you know, the psychology of it all, like the subliminal language, the needing to, you know, have everything be delivered really wonderfully.
Blakeley Vaughn: And um i do love i love that you love this question because it's a fun one.
Carl Lubbe: Yeah, it is such a fun one. It does also make me think, you know, the exercise i would I would help somebody run through this if they're trying to figure it out and change the tonality of a question or a way it was posed in the past is imagine the person asking it is a very well-intentioned eight-year-old.
Blakeley Vaughn: Right. Right.
Carl Lubbe: They don't know what they're doing. They're bumbling through this. They're asking, hey, how much do you make? Hey, how much do you weigh?
Blakeley Vaughn: Yeah.
Carl Lubbe: Hey, how old are you? And in that moment, they're just going, I want us to be friends.
Blakeley Vaughn: Yeah.
Carl Lubbe: I'm fascinated by you. These are context points.
Blakeley Vaughn: Yeah.
Carl Lubbe: Just give me handles to know like, hey, if if you make a million dollars, hey, can we go in your private car and go get a steak? Or hey, you make $3. Hey, I got $3.
Carl Lubbe: Can we go to McDonald's together? Like they're just getting a reference point.
Blakeley Vaughn: yeah
Carl Lubbe: And the beauty of it is even if somebody is ill intentioned, if I show up and believe the best about them anyway, you know who doesn't have to carry the weight of their ill intention? Me.
Blakeley Vaughn: Right. You.
Carl Lubbe: Right. And it does make me laugh.
Blakeley Vaughn: Right.
Carl Lubbe: I was I was watching a movie the other day on a plane. I couldn't sleep and I was just flicking through. And for some reason, whoever the carrier was didn't have a great selection.
Blakeley Vaughn: Yeah.
Carl Lubbe: So I just started flicking through old movies and Notting Hill came up. And I am such like a 90s rom-com guy. um which sounds funny.
Blakeley Vaughn: yeah
Carl Lubbe: You know, i'm ah like a, you know, six foot two rugby playing love sports where there's lots of hits. And it's like, man, you give me a good rom-com just in my feels. I'm here for it. And I rewatched the movie and I love, love, love Julia Roberts. Love the characters that Hugh Grant played. and then loved the director, um Richard, whatever his name, who put put those all of those movies together during that spell in the 90s. And I was rewatching Julia Roberts' character going, she had like 11 lines of dialogue in the whole movie. Like a lot of it was like head tilts and little words, and Hugh Grant had all of the all of the the dialogue to the point where by the time you get to the end and she's asking for that second chance, right? In the famous line, hey, but in the end, I'm just a girl standing in front of a boy asking him to love her.
Carl Lubbe: It's this idea of like, we don't really know you yet as a character because you've had four lines of dialogue. You're just famous and he's attracted to you and the relationship is cute, but we haven't really learned you. But in that moment, she's just going, I'm asking you to trust that my intention is good and I've fumbled this all the way.
Carl Lubbe: I've yelled and screamed.
Blakeley Vaughn: What? yeah
Carl Lubbe: And and she's asking the audience as much as she's asking Hugh Grant, hey, I haven't done this well, but I think there's something redeeming here going forward. And I found myself at the end of the movie going, that line is so good, I will forgive a lot of other stuff in the kind of development.
Blakeley Vaughn: ah
Carl Lubbe: And I think weirdly, I'm making a very long stretch. Yeah, I promise. But I'm saying I feel like it's what you're you're pointing to is like we're not media trained. Like when you hear something, by the way, for people that you've done this for a long time and trained an executive before you go this like, here's the media training, here's the branding, here's what we're saying or what we're not saying.
Blakeley Vaughn: Uh-huh.
Carl Lubbe: When somebody speaks like that as well, you're like. I don't feel connected to that person. I appreciate them transferring information. They did not offend me. I'm kind of on the same path. But there it loses kind of to the AI humans thing.
Carl Lubbe: it's like we need the edges. We need the friction. We need the humanity of this stuff. We need the vulnerability of walking into a conversation going, I love you a lot, and I'm going to do this badly, and I'm going to ask you to give me the grace while I figure this out while we're doing it together because I'm not good at this yet, and I'm just standing in front of you asking, can we do this together?
Blakeley Vaughn: ha
Blakeley Vaughn: Yeah. Isn't that beautiful? I mean, i i can count on one hand in recent conversations me saying, I may botch this, but I'm going to say this because I, you know, I want to, a love you protect you, care for you. but like sometimes I just go to the easiest, which is like Blakely disclaimer. I might do't do this perfectly, but can I just say the thing I want to say to you because I love you? Yeah.
Blakeley Vaughn: so
Carl Lubbe: Yeah.
Blakeley Vaughn: And um like that happened just a few times this week. So it isn't that beautiful?
Carl Lubbe: Yeah.
Blakeley Vaughn: Like that that, like you said, that texture, that range, like we're so, if we have people in our lives that we get to be that vulnerable with, loosen the grip, it's just such lovely things.
Carl Lubbe: Yeah.
Blakeley Vaughn: And by the way, I love that you love rom-coms. You have depth, you have so much texture, Carl. Like i I probably should get the movie watch list from you. Cause there was, i missed a whole generation of those movies.
Carl Lubbe: Yeah, yeah. there's There's lots of problematic stuff. But again, if you can just watch it in its context and its time, you can have a good time. By the way, one cheat code that I've employed for years and i'm really appreciative of is this idea when we're saying something hard and we're not doing it well that and we're not saying something intentionally hard, but it may be received as hard when we're trying to protect or adjust or do any of those things for somebody else.
Blakeley Vaughn: Right.
Blakeley Vaughn: Mm-hmm.
Carl Lubbe: I will also try and use the phrase as often as I remember it, hey, and I want to help carry whatever happens next with you.
Blakeley Vaughn: Okay.
Carl Lubbe: I think a lot of times when somebody hears something hard, it feels like and I know that you would never do this. And so this is why we're sharing it collectively with anybody who's listening to this. It feels like an arrow from a distance.
Blakeley Vaughn: Yeah.
Carl Lubbe: Like, oh, i have ah I have perspective on your professional relationship or your professional acumen, in your personal relationship, and I'm going to say a hard thing because you need to hear it.
Blakeley Vaughn: Yeah.
Carl Lubbe: Well, yeah, you shot an arrow from 100 yards away. You're not in any danger of this firefight.
Blakeley Vaughn: Yeah.
Carl Lubbe: I appreciate it, I guess, but you're not in it with me. As opposed to, hey, I'm going to put up a shield. And we're both taking fire. And I think we need to leave where we are. And by the way, I think you might have put us into this position, but I'm in it with you. Like, I i want to carry the weight of this, I think, speaks differently very quickly to people going, oh, I'm not being abandoned to my own misfortune or my stupidity or my lack of attention or intention. You're here to carry the load with me. And then they feel safe and they feel connected. And then there's almost nothing we can't say if we're willing to carry the fallout of what is said.
Blakeley Vaughn: Yeah, that's beautiful. i love that.
Carl Lubbe: Yeah.
Blakeley Vaughn: Beautiful.
Carl Lubbe: Well, Blakely, an absolute treat. As always, I was not, ah you know, expecting anything less and over delivered, which I appreciate. What a stunning set of questions and what a fascinating both personal history and professional history.
Carl Lubbe: And I'm very excited for whatever the world gets next from from you.
Blakeley Vaughn: Thank you, Carl. This was so much fun. it's such an honor to be here with you and share this space with you. Thank you for having me.
Carl Lubbe: Yeah. And just as a reminder to everybody who's watching, if you comment free samples in the comments, you won't get any, but you should just comment it just for giggles that you got all the way to the end of the podcast.
Blakeley Vaughn: Thank you for having me.
Carl Lubbe: Thanks, Mike Lee. I appreciate you being here.
Blakeley Vaughn: thank you for having me
