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S2E10: Mastering LinkedIn, Midjourney and Career Pivots with Drew Brucker
239 Plays1 year ago
Drew Brucker: Ever heard of him?
JK. If you're on LinkedIn, you probably know this dude.
Drew’s a razor-sharp marketer. A bleeding-edge Midjourney expert. And kind of famous here on LinkedIn.
I was so glad to get to pick Drew's brain for this week's ep of Content People.
We covered:
- Why Drew started posting on LinkedIn.
- What he thinks it takes to be successful on the platform.
- The podcasts that influenced his approach to content.
- Why staying up on AI is going to be imperative.
- How to engineer a career pivot. (Hint: Storytelling matters.)
Drew also walked me through the basics of Midjourney. And how he thinks it will massively transform marketing SOPs.
Follow and connect with Drew here on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/drewbrucker/
Follow and connect with Meredith here on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meredith-farley/
Subscribe to the Content People newsletter here: https://meredithfarley.substack.com/
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Transcript
Introduction: Meredith's Journey and Podcast Goal
00:00:04
Speaker
Hi and welcome to Content People. I'm your host Meredith Farley. I'm a former chief product officer turned chief operating officer turned CEO and founder. My agency is called Medbury. At Medbury we work with founders, execs, and companies who want to tell their stories and grow. But Content People is not about me or Medbury, it's about the creative leaders and professionals that we interview every week.
00:00:28
Speaker
We'll delve into their journeys, unpack their insights, and ask them for practical advice. If you like it, please rate and subscribe. Let's get started.
Guest Introduction: Drew Brecker and Lasso
00:00:45
Speaker
You've become an expert on AI, particularly mid journey, which we're going to talk about, but you've also had a great career in marketing and you have a really successful personal brand on LinkedIn. And I'm excited to dig into all of that with you to start for folks who are listening, but who maybe aren't super familiar with you. Could you just talk a little bit about who you are and what you do?
00:01:06
Speaker
Yeah, I would love to. So my name is Drew Brecker. I'm the VP of Growth at a company called Lasso. So we are a SaaS company primarily focused on event production. And what that means is any live event, conference, festival,
00:01:22
Speaker
concert, any, anything that's live, there are event production companies that put on that event. So let's just say hypothetically, we're talking about HubSpot's inbound conference, which is right around the corner. HubSpot would hire most likely a couple of these event production companies to help trap.
Lasso's Offerings and Drew's Role
00:01:41
Speaker
before, during, and after the show when it comes to audio, the lighting, the stage setup, so all that sort of logistical setup component that goes into the vent. So we provide software for those companies, anything from workforce management software to inventory, that whole suite of products, what you would call a vertical SAS company.
00:02:05
Speaker
Thank you for that. And for folks who have listened to content people for a while, Jess Cook, who was on the shows also at Lasso and Drew and Jess worked together.
Working Relationship with Jess Cook
00:02:15
Speaker
Drew is Jess's boss. So some interesting, constellating, I feel like relationships are happening on the show. Sometimes she's my boss. I could see that. I feel like the moment I talked to Jess, I was like, you tell me what to do and I will do it.
00:02:29
Speaker
Yeah, it's funny too, because Jess and I, you were talking about LinkedIn and the personal brand stuff. Jess and I met.
00:02:35
Speaker
organically off LinkedIn and we started posting around the same time. And it was one of those situations where if you've posted on LinkedIn, you know how this works, but somebody will start to show up for you and comment on some of your posts. And then you do the same for them. And then over time you build a little bit of this relationship and it just got to the point where we had been doing that for I think a couple of months. I was like, Hey, you want to like just hop on a zoom? Let's connect. Let's meet. Let's, I would love to just learn more about you and what you're working on. And.
00:03:02
Speaker
So we did that great conversation and then several months went by. We did it again and just stayed in touch and eventually got to a point where I needed somebody to run content for my team. And first thing I thought of is, let me see if I can steal somebody that I already know, but I already know is really good. And so that's what I did. And luckily she was willing to listen to me and the timing was right. And it's been a fun ride working with her every show.
00:03:28
Speaker
I love that story. And actually then I'm going to jump ahead. Cause I was going to save LinkedIn for later, but let's dig in now because I really wanted to
LinkedIn Success and Strategies
00:03:35
Speaker
ask you about it. You have a really devoted following on LinkedIn. I love following you and your content. I've learned a lot from you. You get a ton of engagement and I know so many folks, it seems like an increasing number of folks are really interested in understanding and doing well on LinkedIn these days. So I'm curious, like why did you first start posting on it and.
00:03:58
Speaker
What do you think has made you successful at LinkedIn? There wasn't like a certain inflection point where I was like, Oh my God, I have to start doing this immediately kind of thing. But I did start to take notice of when I was on LinkedIn, starting to see the shift of.
00:04:18
Speaker
People not just posting blog links and talking about their business or this or that and the other, more of that self-promotional stuff. I saw people starting to share knowledge, experiences, and then look in the comments and people are reciprocating. And so I started putting two and two together and I was like, you know what, this seems like a really good move.
00:04:40
Speaker
And if nothing else, I think I can test and iterate ideas and maybe get some feedback and just build a network a little bit. One of the things that COVID opened our eyes up to a lot, I'm not alone in this, was like the need to be around people, even if you didn't have them in person, right? So that whole Zoom era.
00:05:02
Speaker
And I was never a big networker up until about two, two years ago. I hated networking. I hated the idea of it. It wasn't natural. And LinkedIn provided this nice, easy way to do it because like I was saying, the story with Jess, that same story played out several times over with a lot of different other people. And so I just became genuinely interested in other people.
00:05:26
Speaker
And I felt, Hey, look, if somebody's going to keep showing up for me and I'm going to keep showing up for them, let's solidify this relationship a little bit further. So at last, because another thing is people come and go, right? You'll see some people that show up for you for a while. And then they just disappear, whether that's the algorithm or whatever. And I'm sure I've done the same for other people, but I don't know. That was just like a big eye opener for me. And I started to really.
00:05:52
Speaker
very quickly understand the value that was attached to it, right? It's like all I'm doing is showing up and posting. And I feel like once you get over that initial barrier of just showing up and knowing what you're going to post and not being afraid of it, just flopping and no one liking it, or what if I sound like an idiot or what if I'm judged by somebody I work with or somebody I used to work with. If you can get over that,
00:06:15
Speaker
It really becomes very easy and the dividends it pays just compound over time. So I would say, yeah, after 30 days, it was like, yeah, there's no way I'm going to stop doing this. So that was my commitment to myself is I'm just going to post five days a week for 30 days, see what happens. And I would say two, three weeks in, it was like, yeah, I'm going to keep doing this.
00:06:38
Speaker
Yeah, that really resonates with me a lot. Even, I think I've been doing it for less than you, even for my own agency, I've found some really amazing freelancers, just people who I was liking their stuff. And then I noticed up that this is what they do. Let's have a conversation. And also the bit about not being afraid for something to flop, because I feel like maybe the first six weeks or so I posted something, I would feel
00:07:01
Speaker
such deep cringe after posting and I'd be like, Oh my God, if this only gets like seven likes, someone put me up so embarrassed. I don't know when it happened, but suddenly I was like, who cares? All right. Next, like the downside was gone and it was all upside. Yeah. It's a, it's a little bit of a ego killer in that sense because no one really jumps on there and immediately has an audience. I've seen a lot of people that are really have really big followings on Twitter, then come over to LinkedIn.
00:07:30
Speaker
And they don't get a 10th of the engagement they do on Twitter, right? But they're starting back in that same sense of where people are starting in general, right? You can't expect to have 20, 30, 40, 50 plus likes as soon as you show up. Maybe you have something that pops off and goes a little bit viral in that sense, but it's not going to happen. So you just have to prepare yourself to say, what's the worst thing that can happen?
00:07:55
Speaker
And the reality is I can't even tell you the last post I just scrolled past on LinkedIn. No one's going to remember. No one's going to remember. And what they will remember though, is like you just said, you really liked my content. There's something about it.
00:08:12
Speaker
that resonates with you. It may not be one particular post, right? But maybe there's some sort of personality to it, or it's got some attributes about it. That's what they're going to remember. Not any one individual post. And I guarantee you, no one's going back and saying, let me check on this post five hours later to see if they got it. It's not happening. So you just got to let that go. And all the other great things are on the other side of that.
00:08:35
Speaker
I think that's such good advice for yourself. Do you feel like it took you a while to find your voice? You're a very, I think you're a very compelling writer. You write very conversationally. You get to the point really fast. Like how did that take shape for you? Yeah. One of like, one of the big things, uh, I started really thinking about very heavily right when I started. I think this was also a caveat or a component of getting me involved. I was listening to a lot of.
00:09:02
Speaker
Dickie Bush and Nicholas Cole, if you're familiar with them. And they did some cohort classes and things on writing every day and how to write hooks. And this was like before anybody was talking about it. And I started listening to that and I was like, always loved to write.
00:09:18
Speaker
I was like, okay, so there's like a compelling way to tell a story and come up with a post, but also the hardest part, what do I write about? And so their whole framework is basically how to generate ideas quickly, very quickly in terms of what you can write about. And if you're right, I didn't have a, I didn't know what I wanted to talk about. I didn't really have a voice at first. No one does. It's very rare that.
00:09:41
Speaker
You start and you immediately know a hundred percent what you're going to talk about. You'd need to feel that out.
Finding a Voice on LinkedIn
00:09:46
Speaker
I think I was, a lot of people make the mistake of just trying to be somebody that they're not when they first start. So just be authentic. Think about the things that maybe are a little bit of a unique experience for you.
00:09:57
Speaker
And another really good method is just to think about yourself a few years ago. That was actually something that came up with Nicholas Cole and Dickey Bush was thinking of yourself two years ago and right to your future self. So in my experience, this is what I wish I would have known then, right? Like 10 things I wish I could have changed about X to do Y, right? So all of those things in that documenting of your journey, both in the current tense or the past are really good options to start with.
00:10:24
Speaker
And they're authentic and unique to you. So you don't have to feel like you're grasping for straws to come up with some. I think that's really good advice. Is there anything you'd say is a big, I don't know, LinkedIn don't from a performance or maybe even just from a LinkedIn etiquette perspective where you're like, okay, just start, but do not do this.
00:10:45
Speaker
having said that, don't wait for this perfect idea of what you're going to write about before you start. You're not going to know that, right? The biggest thing is just start. You'll figure it out. And the other, I would say don't. So just make sure that
00:11:03
Speaker
You're not posting and expecting all these things to happen. You do have to cultivate relationships. So that means yes, you post, but you also show up for other people's posts, right? And you leave thoughtful comments and you build relationships in the DMS or on zooms, right? Like some of the unscalable things you really have to do it first. And there are no shortcuts either. I'll tell you that. Yeah, I've grown a lot on LinkedIn. Yes. A lot of doors have opened, but I've spent a lot of time.
00:11:33
Speaker
on the platform and that's both comes with pros and cons. But I think in terms of the career and what it sets you up for, the cons don't even come close to the pros. And so just show up for other people, be authentic, be consistent. So don't just show up and post once and then not show up again for a week or for four days. I think you really do need to put in the reps and that will expedite your learning process too, in terms of what you want to write or what you're going to write about.
00:12:03
Speaker
And so that consistency is important. Like I said, I started with five days a week. I just said Monday through Friday. And I would say that's pretty good. Three, I do think is fine. But again, there's a little bit of that drop off and you think about how much five compounds over time versus three. Interesting. It's all relative to what your expectations are and maybe how fast you want those things to happen.
00:12:30
Speaker
That's, I really like what you just said, even about three verse five. I think this is all awesome advice. And I think something that's within what you're saying, but I would also want to call out too, is that.
00:12:42
Speaker
I think there's some folks out there. These are just people I'm seeing on LinkedIn, no one I've talked to in real life. So I feel like I have to be mindful of that. Just post every day and it'll happen. And I do think the posting is important and the consistency is the foundation. But you're saying this too. You have to pay attention and evolve. And it's not just because you posted 100 days in a row that something popped off for you. It's because you posted consistently and then
00:13:11
Speaker
and figured things out and paid attention and responded. Yeah. And you'll, there really is something to the reciprocation of providing comments and thoughtful ideas in other circles because LinkedIn is just a bunch of little bubbles, right? So it's, if I start to show up for so-and-so all the time, my audience is going to start to blend into his or hers a little bit.
00:13:34
Speaker
And I've seen that play out too, but a lot of the people that are posting that you probably see a lot of have been posting for a little while now. And there's a lot of that. Interconnective tissue between people that are posting just in general. So I found myself like really.
00:13:51
Speaker
getting involved in those as much as possible. So if I knew there was an opportunity to maybe connect with somebody that was a little bit bigger than me, had been posting longer me, I'd try to connect on a zoom and try to learn from them a little bit. What are you saying? What are you doing? What, you know, what guided your success with these things? And so it's not rocket science, right? It's just really about putting in the work.
00:14:11
Speaker
And thinking of other people before yourself, just like really being altruistic and like, how can I help you? If you can help me, I'd love to help you in return. Let's just see how we can help raise each other up.
00:14:24
Speaker
I love that you're saying that because I feel like that framing has also been helpful for me too. I think there are some folks, friends of mine even who feel like they're like, I could never post on LinkedIn. The self promotion aspect of it feels so uncomfortable for them, but I actually think it's the opposite of that that makes one successful and can keep you in
00:14:48
Speaker
some good energy if you do it consistently. It's showing up, being altruistic, being of use, trying to think of, what did I wish, what you said earlier? What did I wish I knew a few years ago? And in some ways it's like what's fun and positive and also does well on a platform is the opposite really of selfish self-promotion.
00:15:06
Speaker
I think if you go too far in the self-promotion, like if you start getting into that habit, you've went off the trail, right? Because there are so many other ways to appeal with the content that you have on LinkedIn. It could be to talk about something that maybe is a hot topic. It could be to share, like we just talked about, share individual experience with something and the learning lessons that took place.
00:15:29
Speaker
It could be, you know, a little bit aspirational, right? Like what you're trying to do or what you hope to do. And one other thing that I like to say too is think about
00:15:41
Speaker
talking about how I, instead of how you, so it doesn't have to be so dictatorial in terms of, especially if you're just starting, hey, this is how you do this, black and white, absolutely. Instead, this is how I did this, right? It's much more, it's less self-promotional and people can't really poke holes in that, you know what I mean? There's no absolute in that, it's what worked for you, it's what you went through.
00:16:09
Speaker
It's your takeaways. And so I think that if you do find yourself going self promotion, you veered off the path a little bit. That's so interesting. Thank you. And so the two guys that you mentioned, it was Dickie Bush and Nicholas Cole are the, is it podcasts or bloggers? What's their platform? They do have a podcast. They're really big on Twitter. That's where they got their start. I think they do post both on LinkedIn, but again, I don't think they're following is quite as big.
00:16:35
Speaker
but they do a cohort class that
00:16:40
Speaker
I didn't sign up for, but I've just seen social truth littered through the ages, right? And I know in listening to their podcasts, how they think about writing and how they've started their own side hustles on business. And it's just very well articulated and strategic. And they're just a fountain of information and educational content. If you're looking to understand, Hey, how should I write? Who should I write for? What's authentic? All the things we've already mentioned.
00:17:08
Speaker
Totally. I will check them out. Thank you. So for folks who are interested in your career journey and how you got here, could you just paint as detailed or on detailed a picture? Yeah.
Career Transition from Sales to Marketing
00:17:18
Speaker
I'll try to give you the real shortened version of this first part of my career I spent in sales. I was fine with it. It just wasn't really a passion, but I eventually got to this point where I had gone down this career path of.
00:17:32
Speaker
Okay, now what do I do? And just so happened that I was able to utilize the industry I was in and make the jump over to the marketing side. I had no marketing experience other than knowing Facebook really well at the time, which depending on how old you are, was actually a pretty good skill to have for a minute. Like there were a lot of people that older generations had no idea what to do with Facebook. This was really before everybody's parents and stuff were on there.
00:17:59
Speaker
really familiar with it. And so there were a number of ways that I was able to train and educate in my sales role, the internal team and company that I worked for. And it just so happened that was like really good practice to go into the marketing side. I eventually worked in a corporate office for a regional team of I think it was like 130
00:18:21
Speaker
30, 130 apartment communities. So like we, we basically had an entire portfolio and I was the digital marketing person for the entire portfolio. And so I will basically utilize the experience I had on the sale side and then couple that with the marketing stuff and say, Hey, look, these are the areas for opportunity in terms of generating more people to come through the door. And that's how I got into that lead or marketing mindset. And I did that for a while.
00:18:48
Speaker
leveled up really quickly and I just kept pushing the ceiling. I made a few really quick jumps like where I was at a roll for a year, maybe a year and a half of the most. And I just said to myself, look, if there's either more money I could make or an opportunity to really expedite my learning, I'm going to take the jump.
00:19:09
Speaker
That's not super comfortable for me. I don't like to jump into a new role. I like to know everything as quickly as possible. And that resulted in a lot of like jumps and new experiences and really a quick level up. And right before I got to Lasso, I was advising for an entire portfolio of SaaS companies within a private equity group. And so we had 35 SaaS companies that I would advise and consult for.
00:19:36
Speaker
And eventually just got to the point where I missed getting my hands dirty in the work as well. And I wanted to get back to that startup environment and lasso presented itself. And I just thought, man, this is a really great opportunity. The timing just sucks. Cause I'm getting ready to have twin girls. Oh my gosh. Yeah. And so I was like, you know what? Let's just, let's just yellow it. Like it's going to be a mess anyway. Let's just do it. And so I pulled the trigger on it.
00:20:05
Speaker
Had kids at the same time. The first year was so hard trying to balance both those things, but eventually the dust settled a little bit and that that's what brought me to Lasso. And I've been there two and a half years and been a really fun ride. And I'm working with a great team, obviously with Jess on board too. And yeah, I've just really enjoyed it. Wow. What a journey. Congrats on twin girls. You're actually the second person I talked to today who has twin girls who are. They're amazing.
00:20:33
Speaker
So you made a pivot, which a lot of people are so interested in doing and you've explained, it sounds like there was opportunity for you and that you, you understood stuff about Facebook. You were able to parlay that into.
00:20:48
Speaker
broadening your responsibilities and switching teams for folks listening who are like, I'm not in marketing. Maybe they're in sales or they're in more account management or, and they want to get into it. Do you have any words of wisdom for them? Or do you think it's just so specific and unique to a situation? That's hard to advise.
00:21:06
Speaker
I think there are some things that you can give advice on with that. What I would always say is depending on what role you're going for, right? Tailor your resume to that. So if you are looking to go from sales to marketing, what are some of the marketing initiatives that you've had a hand in? And can you tell a compelling story in that way? Because at the end of the day, you're going to need someone to take a little bit of a chance on you.
00:21:32
Speaker
And the best way to do that is to try to give them as much proof that this isn't that big of a chance, right? Like you're trying to leverage all the great things that you've already done over here. And now you can do it over here and it's going to make you an even better marketer because most marketers don't think like sales, right? So, so what are those differentiators that
00:21:55
Speaker
would make you unique to this role versus somebody that is just moving from one marketing role to another obvious thing that stands out is, Hey look, like I'm malleable. I'm not stuck in my ways, right? I'm constantly learning and adapting. Whereas maybe somebody else that's been in marketing has a very rigid and structured way. They like to go about doing it. And I think that's fine, but marketing is one of those things that's changing all the time. And so there's value in being a lifelong learning, being curious. And so.
00:22:24
Speaker
connect those dots that make sense to connect to and try to focus solely on building the relationships as well, because another way to get over that hump is to have a strong relationship built in the first place.
00:22:42
Speaker
You know what I mean? If I don't know anybody and I'm going to a company and I am trying to make that leap from sales and marketing, and they've got somebody that's just as good of a, that's a solid marketer sitting next to me, they're probably going to take that person. Unless you've told a really compelling story and maybe you already know this person either through exchanging DMs or you've got a mutual connection.
00:23:03
Speaker
that's where LinkedIn comes into play, right? So I think that's also a very powerful component and reason to be on there is if I'm gone from Lasso tomorrow, I feel like I hopefully have built a good enough network and safety net to say, hey, look, I would love to look at this or this, right? And people have my back. And I've seen that happen with other people. Getting a little off track, but I think it's all about giving yourself the best chance you can taking a step back
00:23:31
Speaker
and not expecting to get a roll over somebody like me who maybe I've just done marketing for a while and you're now making the pivot, that's gonna be hard to do. You need to have your individual advantages that you can bring to the table.
00:23:43
Speaker
Now, I think that's really good advice. It's make sure that in your resume, in your presentation of yourself, you're telling your story, you're telling your narrative. If you can present the move you'd like to make as actually like represented it of something that's advantageous about you and then networking. I think that's all really good advice. That's exactly right.
00:24:05
Speaker
One thing, I wonder if mid-journey is your like Facebook 2.0, just something that you're like ahead of the curve on, but you post so much about mid-journey and I wanted to ask you some questions
Interest in AI and Marketing Innovation
00:24:16
Speaker
about it. First, I'm really curious, how did you get into mid-journey? The AI stuff's fascinating.
00:24:23
Speaker
NFTs were big about a year and a half ago and that, that buzz was there and I was looking very heavily into that. And it was a space that I was reading up on and diving into and playing around with. Do you have chop shot? What's that? No, I didn't. I didn't. I just, I like to continue learning. And I think what's really cool about AI is it feels like web 2.0 as an adult, when, when the internet really.
00:24:53
Speaker
mainstream into households everywhere with the dial up and all that. I remember that very vividly, but I was a kid. I didn't really truly understand the global implications or the economic
00:25:08
Speaker
implications at that time. And I wasn't in my career, right? So there wasn't any sort of leverage or anything like that for me to build. I just, with Mid-Journey, it was a perfect sort of thing because I was actually sitting around and I was like, yeah, I've been posting on LinkedIn for a while.
00:25:24
Speaker
I like talking about marketing, but I feel like it's, I love marketing, but it's not like my passion, right? Is there something that blends into marketing that I'm passionate about? And so I'm a photographer. I love to do design. So I've got a whole other sort of like creative element to me. And when mid-journey really came out with, I think V4, which was like at the beginning of.
00:25:47
Speaker
2022, I started playing around with it and quickly was just like, Oh, this is super cool. This is super cool. The images had gotten a lot better from previous versions, but they still weren't great. So it was like one of those tools where you're like, Oh, this is fun. But I don't know if I would use this for work yet.
00:26:04
Speaker
And what's really happened between then and now is mid journey is taking these huge leaps forward in terms of the quality, the capabilities, and now it's got a real use case in B2B environments, not only B2B B2C ever everywhere, but I would assume a lot of folks here might be B2B and B2B is typically right. There's a little slower than everybody else.
00:26:28
Speaker
And so I see this as an opportunity to share what I'm going through and experiencing and seeing with everybody else because I want B2B to ride this wave. This is something where you don't have to
00:26:42
Speaker
spend hours scrapping through Shutterstock to find an okay image, or you have to hire an expensive photographer to go on site. But shoot these kinds of shots and here's the mood board, right? There is another way now. And my goal is just to mix the passion, right? Like the fun part of it and the utilization of how we're using it at Lasso and just share that with other people that are willing to listen. Yeah. I mean, I look at your posts every day. They're so interesting and.
00:27:11
Speaker
I do want to pick your brain about it a little bit. One thing I'm curious about is how are you guys using it at Lasso? What's the use case for you all right now? At least. Yeah, we've used it in several ways already. I would, I'll give you one really good example that I think crosses a few different thresholds here. So we did a customer only event at a trade show recently. It was about two months ago now.
00:27:37
Speaker
And in preparation for that event, we had customers sign up and save their seat. This was like a perfect opportunity to use chat GPT, because what we wanted to do is come up with fun names for the event that tied into lasso and cowboy culture and wild West thinking about instead of save your seat, save your saddle, like coming up with this fun lingo using like something like chat GPT and then building the landing page where people would sign up.
00:28:03
Speaker
We need a really good compelling image. And so that image actually created imagery. Oh, wow. Got a landing page image. You've got copy that was really crafted in a lot of ways using chat GPT and people signed up. And then when we showed up for this event, we had printed out, like we put together swag and merchandise for this event, candles, coasters. That swag was based on imagery we developed in mid journey. So that came to life. And then also.
00:28:33
Speaker
Everything that we showed in that presentation for these customers, that entire slide deck, all of those images in the background were generated with Midger, right? So thinking about building out a branded library of images takes a lot of time, right? Especially if you're in Shutterstock, which no offense to Shutterstock. I'm like throwing them out of the bus lot, but
00:28:57
Speaker
depending on what industry, like you may not have very many options. And even if you do have options, they're probably not great. And even if they're not great and you need people in those images, we've all seen the same people that appear on several websites. And so there's nothing unique about them.
00:29:13
Speaker
painful, it's time consuming, there's nothing unique about it. And so this really has the ability to make your brand unique, build into the character with the imagery that you can create, give it a personality. If you want to use for us, like we use a lot of like yellow lighting with like with dark backgrounds, like that moody lighting, because a lot of our end customers are on site.
00:29:39
Speaker
And they are in dark environments, right? Black clothes and they're putting together the events and all this stuff. So they're like, you can really match all these scenic elements into your brand. Whereas before you couldn't have that possibility. And it, that use case alone has so many different layers to it. It's the swag, it's the deck, it's the landing page. I'm sure I'm forgetting a few other things, but like all of that was based on the foundation of AI, including mid-journey.
00:30:07
Speaker
That is so cool. And yeah, first of all, that's so creative and interesting about the lighting and the choices around the experience for your customers. And it's also so cool that you're able to do a sub brand for this particular event, which also just sounds like a super cool event that you guys did. It was fun. And that was like really like my first time putting it into that kind of use case. So it was an experimental thing for me too, which of course we're marketers. We love experimenting.
00:30:35
Speaker
So I've messed around a couple of times in Mid-Journey. What do you have to bring to it in so far as what you ask it to generate? Maybe you could walk me through that. I'm such a novice when it comes to Mid-Journey. So like you have the idea I imagine and you want some imagery, then what? A couple of different ways you could go about it. One, I would say if you've already got like a good image in terms of maybe the vibe or the style. Okay.
00:31:04
Speaker
You could go about using that as like an initial, what's called a describe, like I'm trying not to get too tactical on the weeds, but like a describe command. And what mid-journey will do is basically take that image, deconstruct it and put together a bunch of words that it thinks makes up that image in terms of how you could prompt it. It's not a, it's not a one for one exactly, but it comes very close. Let's just use that example I just gave for a second. If I've got.
00:31:33
Speaker
a yellow lighting, the dark background. I've got somebody in the image. Maybe there's like some scenic elements where there's a stage behind them or whatever. I could drop that into mid-journey and hit describe. Okay. And it'll jump out with a bunch of words and options for me to basically use and jump on. So I could start there.
00:31:53
Speaker
The other way that I actually did this was I said, okay, I want to have our brand colors in it. So thinking about if it's a person, maybe they're wearing a yellow or a black shirt, right? Similar stuff like this, or the lighting, right? Because we're at shows.
00:32:10
Speaker
Yeah, we can have any color lighting, but man, it'd be cool if there was like this yellow lighting too, right? To feel more brand centric. And so like thinking about that comes into play demographics, right? So if there's a particular demographic to your ICP.
00:32:26
Speaker
What's your brand color? What's your brand personality? What kind of, if somebody's, if you're taking, uh, creating images of people, what kind of expression should they have? Is this like a serious nature, like cybersecurity? Is this, are they in relief? Are they happy? Like you can make all of these adjustments just impromptu. I think mid-journey you, one needs to access it through discord. Is that right? Currently, yes. Important to know that.
00:32:54
Speaker
mid journey is building out their own UI. So that's going to break away from discord. I would expect before the end of the year, but yes, like discord right now is a little bit of a barrier for some people not comfortable in it. It was for me too. The reality is, I think if you jump in there once or twice after you get set up, it's not.
00:33:14
Speaker
You figure it out. I think that's what happened with chat GPT too, because it started off, you had to go through discord and then the disability, but just boom. And yeah, for me mentally, even, I don't know why discord is such a barrier. And I know if I spent 30 minutes on it, I could figure it out, but it's been a barrier, but you've inspired me. I'm going to go, we all have those things, right? There's only so many tools like that you want to learn at the end of the day. That's just the reality of it. It sounds like you are on the bleeding edge. And so far as how you're utilizing it in.
00:33:44
Speaker
your actual marketing campaigns right now. I know it's hard to say, but do you have a sense of maybe across the next 12 to 18 months, how you think mid-journey might change marketing or change the landscape a bit? I think it's going to be huge. Oh man, it is already huge for bigger brands and for B2C specifically. I think the question is like, when is B2B going to jump on the train?
00:34:10
Speaker
There are a few barriers, right? So let's think about this. We mentioned Discord. I do think that provides an obstacle for some people. There's also a paid component to it. Personally, people may not want to pay for that. But the reality is, right, if your company's paying for Shutterstock or stock images, let's reimburse this. Let's expense this. This should be a part of your budget. How much is it right now?
00:34:35
Speaker
You can get like a basic plan for $10 a month. And then it all scales up from there. I think I have a $30 plan and that allows me to do a little bit more than the 10. I think you're capped at maybe the number of images with 10, if I remember correctly, but I think it's going to be massive.
00:34:53
Speaker
It's a matter of just the discord piece, people coming up with use cases. So what are all the use cases that I could use this for? I'm like that's sinking in because there are a lot. There are a lot. I could read off a bunch of them right now, but that's also the learning piece. Do they have somebody on their team that knows it well enough to get the quality there?
00:35:14
Speaker
Right. So is there somebody I need to hire for this? Does somebody need to come coach us what needs to take place there? And then lastly, I would say that the fourth barrier is probably. Just the gray areas around legality. So with AI imagery, there's some questions of the way mid journey got these images is they scrape the web, including copyright copyrighted material in terms of like imagery.
00:35:41
Speaker
Now you can't recreate those styles or copyright it. You can't replicate those. You could come close, right? But it's machine learning. And so it kind of goes back to the, is this ethical? Is it not? What's the deal? And so I look at precedents for that. And there are countries like Japan that have said, hey, look like
00:36:04
Speaker
Anything that's generative AI, striping images is fair game, right? Because this is just too ambiguous and it's hard to track. Mid-journey, if you use a paid plan, which now everything's a paid plan, they do say that they cover you and any image that you do create is covered. And you are not liable for that.
00:36:23
Speaker
So here's my advice. Here's where I would draw the line in this area of gray space is if you're going to use it commercially or to use it to make money, avoid specific artists, movie directors, product names, anything that's very specific, and instead describe that, right?
00:36:50
Speaker
Maybe you want to create something that looks like Nike. Instead of saying Nike, sports athletes, you're right. Think of the things that describe it. And that would be a way that you could get around it. Because I think at the end of the day, if anybody's going to be in trouble, it would be mid journey. But let's just say there's a scenario that plays out where people want to see what you put in it as a prompt and you're now making money for it. All those prompts can be tracked.
00:37:18
Speaker
So just be safe, right? Be smart about, Hey, if I'm going to use this on a business front, let me stay away from using this director's name that I know has this kind of style for my image and instead describe it in keyword.
00:37:31
Speaker
I think that's all great advice. Thank you. And it's funny about the liability or indemnification because I know Shutterstock offers that. So it seems mid-journey really coming for Shutterstock with that offering and so far as commercial usage. So I know you've written on LinkedIn about how
00:37:53
Speaker
You really believe that understanding, having efficacy with and using AI is going, is something that sets one apart in their career and it's going to be really important in the future professionally.
00:38:07
Speaker
But I can also see that as you mentioned, you're into photography, you're a creative person that it seems it's a real creative interest for you as well. If someone isn't naturally as creatively inspired by AI, how would you suggest they stay up to date and informed and how important is it
Conclusion and Farewell
00:38:28
Speaker
that they do? Definitely important to at least stay informed. Even if you're going to be a late mover on this, I think knowing what's going on is super powerful. Yeah.
00:38:37
Speaker
There are going to be different layers of how involved people are. I think we're still at the very early stages, right? So the people that are jumping in pretty heavily right now are really early adopters in all this. I think it's a matter of time until it becomes more mainstream. It is fully integrated, but it's already taken shape and it's already taken shape pretty fast. Like if I'm a student now, like at a college.
00:39:02
Speaker
There are use cases for that. If you're in sales, there are use cases for that. If you're in marketing, you're in product, you're on the C-suite. If you're a consultant, if you've got your own business, like literally the use cases for AI are infinite. How involved do you want to be? And I think the important part to mention here is.
00:39:20
Speaker
AI is not to the point yet where everything is press a button and yes, that's it. Don't need to make any changes. Don't need to tell it anything else. No more context needs to be given. There is a lot of experimentation in that next level of, okay, this isn't quite what I was looking for. Let me iterate. Let me iterate. Let me iterate.
00:39:41
Speaker
And so that takes patience. It takes a commitment and dedication to keep going back and learn those things. But I would say one thing you can do right now, regardless, is there are plenty of AI newsletters out there right now. Sign up for a few. And they'll give you the headlines of what's happening in real time. And if nothing else, there you go. You can make the decision when you want to fully jump in. But to get an understanding of what's really happening around you, I think you should. And I'll tell you from the business side, too,
00:40:10
Speaker
With companies right now, a lot of that VC money, that venture capital money for companies that are getting investments with the economy, the inflation, all these things is really heightened and dried up. And where VCs are really investing their time right now, AI companies. Yeah. So you just look ahead and yes, it's hot. It's not a fad though. So try to look at it as you're early and if you want to get involved, take advantage of that window.
00:40:41
Speaker
I think that's all really great advice. They're actually a guest on this show a few ups ago was Heather Murray and she has a great AI newsletter for anyone called AI for non techies. I'd totally recommend that one. Killer title too. Yeah, it is. And it's true. It's AI for non techies. I find it really informative. Are you going to do a newsletter, Drew? Thoughts cross my mind. I don't have a lot of time right now. Imagine. Yeah. But the thought has crossed my mind. I think.
00:41:10
Speaker
I'm getting a lot of pride in teaching people mid journey stuff. Like it really is fun. And I think when I first started diving into it, I was in the echo chamber of other people. I was around that were in mid journey and I didn't realize how many people weren't in it at all. And so once I realized that and that kind of clicked, I was like, okay, I want to bring people along.
00:41:32
Speaker
And let me touch on photography, but there's like a lot of photography overlap and it's like a way for me to still get a little bit of that fun. We could post it on the newsletter though. Yeah. Subscriber one right here. If you do, is there anything else that I didn't ask that you just want to say or talk about? Can you tell me, is there anything else that you think would be helpful? Just maybe for folks who really enjoyed this and they want to follow you, like where can they find you on LinkedIn? Obviously I'll put your LinkedIn and the show notes anywhere else that you'd want to direct them toward.
00:42:01
Speaker
Yeah, LinkedIn is definitely the best place to find me. Um, I'm active on there. I, again, just going back to the way we kicked off this conversation. I show up at least five days a week and just try to share what I'm learning in real time. A lot of that is more focused on the mid journey and AI stuff at the moment.
00:42:20
Speaker
But if you have any questions or you'd like a resource or anything, I'm super available. I know sometimes it's a little bit, I don't know, at least for me it was. When I first got on and seeing people with big followings, like, are they going to care if I hop in their DMs and ask them a question? I'm not that guy. So if you've got a question, I can help in any sort of way, whether it's AI marketing, majority stuff. Let's chat.
00:42:45
Speaker
All right. Thank you so much. Like I learned quite a bit in this combo and I really enjoyed getting to talk to you. So thank you so much. Your pleasure. I'm glad we were able to work this out. I had fun. All right, folks. I hope that you enjoyed that episode. Thank you so much for listening. If you liked it, please subscribe or review us. And if you want to check out our newsletter, Content People, it is in the show notes. See you next time. Bye.