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EP. 15 Joker Folie a Deux
46 Plays1 year ago
Nick and Gerald review Joker Folie a Deux. Is this one of the biggest bombs in movie history? Nick also shares his experience visiting sites where they filmed John Wick 2! The episode ends with the guys ranking their favorite Joker actors of all time!
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Transcript
Introduction and Joker 2 Discussion
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello and welcome to episode 15 of the Two Guys One Screen podcast. My name is Nick. And I'm Gerald. And today we are, we are back. ah You guys don't know that we've been, I've been away for almost 10 days. um And we've come back to record an episode on Joker fully a who I do movies. um Not good. Unfortunately. Yeah. um I went and saw this and I really couldn't talk to anybody about it because I went to the Monday night screening the week it came out and no you hadn't seen it yet. And I don't really have friends that go out and watch movies like that. So I didn't know who to talk to about it. And I was just spiraling out of control my apartment about how bad.
00:00:56
Speaker
I was like, what did I just watch? I put it off as much as possible. Then I realized I had to watch it. And I was like, damn, um, this review will not be the typical scene by scene. Uh, it will be spoiled for you obviously, but if you have seen the movie, you understand how fucking boring that would be to do a scene by scene review of this movie. Um, so we're just going to kind of overall discussion about it.
Social Media and Future Plans
00:01:20
Speaker
And, uh, towards the end we will rank our favorite, uh, jokers of all time. Just the top five are.
00:01:29
Speaker
I have them all, but not all of them, but like the main ones, because, you know, there's all those like spin off Batman shows that have like some dude that plays the Joker or whatever. Yeah, I just have a I just have a top five. I'm omitting someone for my top five and it might surprise you, might not. I don't know.
Physical Media Pickups
00:01:44
Speaker
Find out ah before that, before we do all that, a little. ah fo So.
00:01:54
Speaker
Follow us on Instagram, Two Guys One Screen Pod. Send any comments, concerns, requests to Two Guys One Screen Pod at gmail dot.com and follow us on Letterboxd. Our links are in the description. Yeah, do all that. Watch the clips. ah Working on a clip page for the YouTube and TikTok probably November because this month is jam packed.
00:02:18
Speaker
Which, you know, we're in the weeds, but I think you guys are also in the weeds, because the views are not great. You guys are all a little behind on the episodes. Keep up, would you? Yeah. I mean, the newest stuff that since we started doing two episodes a week, the the views are are low. But I think people just have trouble keeping up. That's fair. Except for Jake. He said he was caught up. So shout it to you. Anna's still on the substance. That fucking movie. All right. ah You want to dip into a little physical media pickups?
00:02:48
Speaker
Sure. um I'll go, because I don't think you've seen this movie. OK. It's amazing that I have any physical media pick up, because I landed two days ago, and then I've been jet lagged. So I've just been getting up early as fuck. So yesterday I had nothing to do. I i was like, let me just go look at Walmart. And this movie's been out on physical for a little bit, but I never wanted to pay the full price. So I ended up getting it for 14. It's a, I don't want to call it an indie film, but it is a film from India. It is called Kill.
00:03:19
Speaker
I don't know if you heard about it or not. You haven't seen it. I've heard about it, nothing. It is a John Wick vibe movie that takes place entirely on a moving train subway. And it's this guy who fights a gang on the train. like There's a group of robbers trying to rob the train, and it gets really personal really quickly. ah The action sequences are Amazing I mean it rivals John wick I would say That's high regard. Yeah, I think the narrative gets a little repetitive and obviously John wicks narrative isn't great either but That has three separate movies. This is like I think a two-hour film that I
00:04:05
Speaker
kind of feels a little bit, gets a little lost in the sauce in the middle. But I gave it a three and a half star. It's somewhere in the middle of the pack for 2024 releases for me. um But 14 bucks. Not bad. Not bad. And a digi. So, oh, there's that. There's that. Yep.
00:04:23
Speaker
Uh, so I don't have mine with me because I kind of forgot it. Uh, but I was also at Walmart last week, I think sometime. Uh, and I found a new boutique label called terror vision. Oh, right. Yeah. They're releasing like, you know, underground horror movies, I guess.
00:04:50
Speaker
I know what you're going to say, and I actually did see a copy of this at Walmart yesterday. Yeah. um The found the 2024 found footage movie Frogman.
00:05:04
Speaker
I don't know why I'm asking this, but have you watched it yet? ah No, I tried to get Mark and Autumn to watch it last week. Fuck you, Mark. Yeah. Fuck you, Mark. They chose to watch Ghostwatch. Good movie. What is that? Good movie. So it's you log that? I did. All right. Keep going. ah It's a. It's a mockumentary that BBC made in 1992 BBC. But when they put it out, they released it on Halloween night. They didn't tell anybody it was fake. They were straight up like, yo, this the shit's happening live.
00:05:40
Speaker
Yeah, it's like a Poughkeepsie Tapes Blair Witch vibe. Right. And it was actually really good for a TV movie. You have a good you have a good review for it. go Go look at his review. I'm not going to read it.
Travel Experiences and Movie Inspirations
00:05:54
Speaker
um Cool. That's cool. At least you liked it. At least was a good it was a good movie. It was a blind buy. um I want to say a couple of things. i obviously i was not Obviously, I was away, and I had some substantial time in a airplane because I was flying back from Europe. And ah I wasn't going to shout them out, but I think I'm going to shout them out. Shout out to to Turkish Airlines, man. Let me send you because I don't know if you've been on an airplane that has those TV screens and the headphones or earplugs that are like not great. And a lot of people talk about like
00:06:38
Speaker
You know airplane movie watches don't typically go well because the screen sucks the sound sucks all this shit I'm gonna send you this picture right now of what I was looking at on the back of my ah Fucking in the back of the seat in front of me and it was amazing it was The screen was the biggest screen I've ever seen on an airplane. I mean it looked like the tablet put in like Tesla's ah Movies in high, movies in high definition. High definition movies, okay? Look at this. They gave us over the head earphones. I almost, or headphones, I almost took them home. I left them there, I don't want them. Are you charging your phone in this picture? Yeah, dude, and that's a little John for like the new outlets, not the USB, they had both. Wow.
00:07:27
Speaker
So they're like, they're on it. Yes. So that was a very fun experience. I watched Ford vs Ferrari. Shout out Jake who recommended that movie to me for the first time. I don't know if you've seen that movie. It has Christian Bale and Matt Damon are the two main stars of the film. But amazing. I mean, I think you and I already love Christian Bale as does most of the world. ah But his performance in Ford V Ferrari was I was blown away. I'm always blown away, but I was just fucking blown away from his performance. If you see it out in the world for like 15, I would definitely buy it. okay I'm looking for it now. I want to get i didn't add it to our list yet, but I want to buy it.
00:08:06
Speaker
I feel like I always see it at my Walmart. It's been in my watches for so fucking long and it was such a good movie, such a good film. ah That paired with like Ferrari, the new one that Michael Mann put out with Adam Driver. It's a good little, good little combo on ah on car history, which I don't give a fuck about cars, but it's interesting. That's probably why I i never had an interest because I don't really give a fuck about cars.
00:08:28
Speaker
True. um Also, it's based on a true story. So yeah that's kind of interesting as well. on the On the same note vibe, I was in Italy and I was able to go to, ah in total, I believe it's three three different areas where they filmed John Wick 2.
00:08:51
Speaker
Which was cool as fuck. Um, so the first one, I thought of it late. Like we didn't, time was against me when I thought of it. I'm a little mad about that, but, um, the first place I went to was the Roman bath houses or the bath houses of Caracol. They call them. That's where he, had he.
00:09:12
Speaker
goes and finds a Dantonio's sister and she like slits her wrists in that tub or whatever. And then he has that fight scene leaving that place with like the big disco shit is. Yeah, she was crazy. That was she was cool. um Fucking so cool to see that shit. And then I guess they filmed parts of the inside of it were filmed somewhere else, but the main John was there.
00:09:36
Speaker
The main John from John. The main John from John Wick. John Wick. And then I also saw, if you remember towards the end of the movie, well, it's not like the full blown end, but it's towards the end where he's pursuing D'Antonio through the Art Museum. Of John II? Of John Wick II. Yeah. ah I took a screenshot of it for reference, but there's this part where he's just murdering dudes and it's a cool I'll send it to you oh yeah okay yeah I know what you're talking about now it's a cool shot because it's just like a room and it just kind of follows him going across this long room just like murdering dudes
00:10:18
Speaker
ah And there's a big statue in the background. Do I know what the statue is? No, I've seen, if you knew how many statues I've seen in the past 10 days, I mean, it's impossible to keep track. So that statue is a little pecker. ah Dude, I saw a David's cock. Wow. By the way, did you know David? It's the same David from David and Goliath.
00:10:36
Speaker
No, I just thought it was like a biblical. I don't know who I thought it was, but it's David from David versus Goliath. I went there. Unfortunately, the upstairs of this museum was closed. And I think that's where more of the scenes were shot by at least got this. And I was like, that's pretty fucking fire.
00:10:52
Speaker
I also went to, do you know when he goes to get, ah he meets the sommelier or whatever the fuck he's called. The guy I should call the guns in a little tiny store. I went there too. That's cool. ah Very weird. I felt a little pressured because I went in there and I was like.
00:11:10
Speaker
ah I'm not going to buy anything. I didn't say it to him, but it was kind of like because I'm a tourist. She was kind of expecting me to. I think that's it for the John Wick stuff. Oh, the John Wick stare. There's ah there's a staircase where he fights. ah what theck What the fuck is that guy's name? Remember him in common of a fight scene on the train? Yes. And then they like tumble down these stairs. You walk the stairs. No, I couldn't get there in time, but.
00:11:36
Speaker
I probably was near them, yeah, at one point. And there's a couple, there's a couple shots they have where, like, Keanu's overlooking, like, Rome. There's a bunch of buildings in the background. I saw, I saw those, like, up close, which was cool. And then I looked, I found this in the museum. um This is not from the movie, but if you had, does this look, I'll send it to you. Does this look familiar to you? It's not a movie we just covered. Looks like the, uh, the chick from It. Yeah, right?
00:12:03
Speaker
so yeah So I actually googled it. I was like, what painting was that based off of? And I guess the director, Andy Machete, with fuck his name is. He ah he had a pain. He had a painting commissioned for that film. ah So it's not that one, but it looks just fucking like her, right? Wow.
Critical Review of Joker 2
00:12:19
Speaker
Making counterfeit art out here. well Yeah. I mean, he would probably just say he was loosely inspired by it, but whatever. Sure. All right. Let's get into Joker. I'll ah I'll give you the cast.
00:12:31
Speaker
I don't know how many people I want to talk about on this cast list, but the main two. Obviously directed by Todd Phillips. They brought back the same director. Joaquin Phoenix is Arthur Fleck. Lady Gaga ah plays Lee Quinzel. Shout out my boy Brendan Gleason, who plays Jackie Sullivan. He's like the main officer in the in the jail. Zazie Beats came back as Sophie Dumont, but she's only in the movie for like a little bit.
00:13:01
Speaker
um Harry Awadi plays Harvey Dent. Lee Gil comes back as Gary Puddles, the little midget. I don't think I can say that, but... Puddles. Who else do I want to shout out? Oh, my boy Tim Dylan. He was one of the guards at Arkham. He's a very famous comedian. Shout out to Timmy D. Fucking love that guy. Timmy D. Before we get into this film, where were you at with the first one?
00:13:33
Speaker
I love the first one. OK. Because I'm. I said I said on letterbox and this is I mean, I didn't realize how much in the minority I was with this, but I think Joker one is a masterpiece. I gave it five stars. I still think it's five out of five. I think Joaquin Phoenix's performance in that movie is like top tier upper echelon.
00:14:00
Speaker
um The problem is that, you know, a lot of people point to, and it's a valid argument that Joker is just kind of a ripoff of Taxi Driver. Which if you've seen Taxi Driver, it's kind of the same vibe. ah And they're just saying they just slapped on the Joker tag to this film. ah And my argument, again, this is probably a hot take. I'm in the minority.
00:14:27
Speaker
My review, my review of tech. So for the listener, in case you didn't want to listen to me talk anymore, here's another reason for you to not listen. Uh, I gave taxi driver a three out of five. Um, which is definitely a hot take. So you're saying joker's a better movie than taxi driver, which is what it's based off of. Yeah. Okay. So this, this is my argument and here you've seen taxi driver, right? Yeah. Okay. This is my argument. Think of taxi driver and joker as Samsung and Apple, okay? Okay. Samsung does it all first, by far. they're the They're always the one putting out the newest technology first. Taxi driver came first, right? Yeah. Apple takes that, makes it look arguably cleaner, easier to use, ah and just more appeasing to the general public, right?
00:15:27
Speaker
That is, for me, Samsung is tax driver. Joker is Apple. They, yeah. I feel like they took, I mean, a lot of people I know don't like it because they took it in a more like grounded in reality way about it. The first Joker talking about. Yeah. They want like, they want like a generic comic book movie. Yeah, but I don't know. I feel like that's not what we need right now.
00:15:58
Speaker
No, which is I think we'll get into the Joker two thing. ah That was that was the attempt. I also think I think you'll agree with me. We'll say this before we did not need a Joker two. No, no, this we did not. This of all movies that should have been a standalone. This was atop the list. Like there was absolutely no need to make a second Joker movie. They tarnished the legacy of the first one.
00:16:29
Speaker
Yeah, it kind of goes against the entire first movie, but the argument, so we'll just get into it. The argument for like the people who, because Gerald and I both don't like this movie, Joker 2. No. yeah The people who do like that movie say the slap in the face at the end was intentional, which maybe it was the very end or the big reveal.
00:16:59
Speaker
The end of the. Both it was all they're saying it's intentional, like that, like that Todd Phillips intention was like, nope, he's going to just come out and say this is all an act. I'm not Joker. Everyone's going to leave. But people are also relating that to like, all right, well, if all the fans of the first movie were interested because he is Joker.
00:17:21
Speaker
Why would you make that decision? And they're saying he, there's, I've heard online, like the, the idea is like, he's, he's making a movie that goes against like that against like the typical comic book movie fan.
00:17:41
Speaker
But why? I don't know. I guess they're toxic. I don't have Twitter, which is a massive part that I'm missing. But I guess the just the discourse online about Joker and now this movie is not has been pretty tumultuous. But if your main fan base that you're shooting at with the first movie, right, was the comic book fans.
00:17:59
Speaker
Right. And then, then there's the choice, which we'll get into this too, of making it a musical. Most people, when they hear that movies or musicals are pretty much against it, which I was one of those people, but then I saw Sweeney Todd and now I'm open to musicals. like know I put you on, um, like there's plenty of.
00:18:23
Speaker
Very good, successful movies that are musicals. I think Sweeney Todd at the top of my list, we'd be remiss not to mention The Greatest Showman, but that movie I think I haven't seen. So I don't know. I can't really say anything about that movie. One of my favorite movies of all time, The Wizard of Oz.
00:18:42
Speaker
Sure, that's a lot. A lot of people love that movie, but now the actors were intrigued right in that movie, right? For Wizard of Oz? Absolutely not. They were mistreated. Mistreated, yeah. But I mean, hey, it was the 30s.
00:18:56
Speaker
I'm not saying it's right. I'm not saying it's right either. we have But we have to differentiate art from the artist. That's how I feel. I feel the same way about like Louis CK. Sure. Like I, he's probably my favorite comedian of all time. I laughed the hardest watching his stuff and what he did was wrong. It doesn't change anything, but the art itself gives,
00:19:22
Speaker
entertains me. He's a piece of shit, right? And he came out and said, I did it. And that's wrong that he did all those things. But all that being said, his standup is still funny. And I feel the same way with Michael Jackson.
00:19:33
Speaker
Yeah, but I don't think other people trying to change history by him other people trying to like shame him now As each has even had people try to cancel him Even after he died. I mean I would the documentary probably Okay, I haven't heard anything about it. I just know people like but recently don't like ACK and sure all that kind of stuff ah but people are A lot of people, well if you look on letterbox, give the Wizard of Oz like a half star because of what came out about the way that the the actors and actors were treated. We're not saying that was okay. We're saying if you watch the movie, the movie is itself is still good. I haven't seen the movie in probably, I don't know, 18 years.
00:20:18
Speaker
i mean it's
00:20:22
Speaker
you know, a revolutionary movie, if you really think about it. Right. It was one of the first movies made in color. I mean, just by that, you have to give it its props. Correct. I mean, look, it wicked, right? Without the Wizard of Oz, you wouldn't have had one of the greatest musicals on Broadway of all time. You wouldn't be getting the new Wicked movie, which I hope it's good. The movie. Yeah.
00:20:50
Speaker
I hope it's good, which we are reviewing that I'll be coming out. The fact that they're making it two parts is really scaring me, but I get it. What is that, by the way, that they're hiding the. They don't like a lot of these movies don't advertise that it's a part one or part two, like it was the same way. Fucking Dune, I didn know is a part one until I like walked out of the theater. Right. Why are you doing that?
00:21:11
Speaker
I don't know. But while we're on a topic of musicals, I don't think they committed to the musical bit enough in Joker. I 100% agree. Now, it didn't bother me that there was musical there was a musical element to this movie. But it definitely bothered the fans that they were that liked the first one. Yes. Now, going I'm someone who likes musicals, so maybe that's why. Going into it, I was like, let's see how they do it.
00:21:40
Speaker
And Lady Gaga is a phenomenal. Right. Like they casted someone that can sing. Like it's no, yes, you know, no surprise that a Grammy award winner can sing. Like, you know, right. Right. Um, and Woffkeen Phoenix, you know, I was, I was entertained by some of the, some of the bits. Yeah. I mean, he played Johnny Cash. So anyway, did a pretty damn good job of that.
00:22:05
Speaker
Right. So we already kind of knew his singing capabilities. You know, he's not going to be some Broadway singer here. Right. But given what. He was given. I mean, I feel like he did a good job. Yes, I agree. um I just think that they didn't lean into the. Lean into it enough, a condo was shaky as far as like, are we musical? Are we not going to be musical? Is it a movie that has some songs in it?
00:22:33
Speaker
I want to know if Todd Phillips actually like reached out to people who have directed musicals before and got any advice or if he said, fuck it. I'm not going to try this shit, bro. I was listening to a podcast and one of the people on the podcast said, I don't know if Topham's ever watched a musical before.
00:22:52
Speaker
So the only musical number that actually really felt needed, not needed, but good. It happened at the right time. Yeah. Was. The first one when Arthur's watching the time, I like that one. That's the only one that seemed proper. Did that one tie into them escaping the prison or no? No, that was before. OK, I like that one, too. ah This so a lot of people, I mean, I'm not going to say movies not boring. It definitely is. Oh, very boring. But I I actually was quite engaged with it all the way to.
00:23:31
Speaker
I think when drama starting the courtroom. No, I actually I think I'm in the minority there, too. I like courtroom drama movies anyways, like Anatomy of Fall, I think is fucking amazing. Oh, I'm a big one order fan. So yeah. And but the difference is those those are engaging, right? Sure. Yes. Like a few good men. Like there's a bunch of these movies that are I love a good courtroom drama, a time to kill. There's a bunch of them that are great. ah That movie where Tom Hanks is gay and has AIDS. I forgot the name of it. That's a courtroom drama movie, too.
00:24:00
Speaker
ah And most of it I thought was good. Here's where you lose me. Right. So there's a particular scene in the movie. They bring back, uh, his psychiatrist, whoever she is from the first movie. Right. And she's on the stand and she's saying like, Arthur Fleck was abused by the way, before I go keep going with this, the whole trial is to determine whether the Joker and Arthur Fleck are two different identities or it's just Arthur Fleck putting on a facade. They're trying to say that he has DID, which if you're going to make a DID movie, you got to hold up to like fucking split. 100%. You got to hold up to the movie called Identity, which I don't think you've seen yet, but it's very good. It's very hard to make a convincing DID movie, but I'm off like this angle of.
00:24:53
Speaker
It's a different identity, like Joker is a different part of him. I'm all for that because what she was what this psychiatrist goes on to say is he was sexually assaulted, abused as a child, which is not okay, obviously. ah And he created a second persona, whatever to take on to guard him from those, from the atrocities, the horrors of the real world, which is fine. That's the same thing with fucking James McAvoy's character in Split. It it makes sense. This is how DID works. We're not doctors, but from movies, it makes sense. I'm with it. Completely with it. Now, this is my problem. One of them. There is this scene, and you tell me what you think, right?
00:25:39
Speaker
Arthur goes on the stand or he's defending himself whatever at whatever point this happens. And he says ah he starts talking shit about the guards at Arkham. And you see Brendan Gleason's character kind of look at the TV like, what the fuck is he saying? When he gets back to the prison, does he get raped? Gerald nodded in case you guys can't see. Well, you can't see, actually.
00:26:06
Speaker
um This is the part where it lost me. What are you trying to say about mental health here? Arthur Fleck, they say they go away to say he was sexually assaulted, which probably means rape. Right. As a child, he may even they put it in your mind. Right. That this has happened to him before. And they so they say it in the first film.
00:26:31
Speaker
the So he gets raped by Brennan Gleason's character and two other officers. We we we come to ah assume they don't show you. I don't even want to say assume because when they throw him back in his cell, like he's traumatized. He's just blank in shock. He didn't get beat up because he's not like bru like. So if you're trying to say that Arthur Fleck was raped,
00:26:56
Speaker
as a child, and the trauma from that as a child, he created a persona to disassociate from Arthur Fleck. At the end of the movie, what happens after this, when the big reveal comes out, Arthur Fleck goes, you know what? It's just the thing I made up. Are you trying to say that you just got to rape him again to correct it? Like, what are you trying to say here? That is probably one of the most vile. I was mind blown at that point for him to say, you know what? It's all an act.
00:27:26
Speaker
And there's a point where he like, he makes eye contact with the camera and then the camera cuts to the TV and the president and it shows Brendan Gleason watching fucking wild to say something like that in a movie. like What are we doing here, Todd Phillips? So your motive. And this is where, again, the courtroom drama, I'm with it as long as Arthur is saying, no, I am the Joker and the whole movie is like Arthur is The argument that he's not, right, is he's getting pressure from, you know, Harley, from people around him saying, the Joker is what everybody wants you to be. This is how you gain attention, which, to be fair, in the first movie, a lot of Arthur's claims are, I didn't get any attention. No one even knew I existed. But now I'm i'm Joker and i'm I'm somebody. Which is fine. However, he... the The end of the first one leaves you with he's owned this Joker persona. This is who he is. And he's made this new identity for himself to disassociate from. Arthur Fleck. He gets raped and he goes, you know what? I'm just Arthur Fleck and I did it all for attention.
00:28:45
Speaker
Murdering people on TVs for attention. all everything you did it was for attention I can't buy into attention I can't buy into that so all that being said I'm like so that happens and you're just I'm completely fucking blown away by that then someone blows up the courthouse or the side of it who you never find out you don't know who did it but i'm sure it's one of the joker fanatics or it was somebody that that heard that he claimed that he wasn't joker and were like watching him blew it up um i don't want to be like a cinema sins kind of person but this place is guarded with police because it's like the trial of the century right and it still gets and it still gets bombed they were saying it's like one of the first um
00:29:40
Speaker
trials ever on live TV in Gotham or whatever. So the courthouse gets blown up and I'm sitting there fucking confused because it's like. How they show you zoom out of the courthouse, there's gates, there's cops everywhere. Harley Quinn just waltzing in and out of the out of the courthouse. It gets blown up and you're like, dude, what the fuck is going on?
00:30:05
Speaker
ah He then runs off and finds Harley. He's like, oh, we can be together. And she's like, I don't want to be with you. And he's like, what? And it's like, fucking duh, dude. Obviously, she doesn't want to be with you. The man she fell in love with. She was obsessed with Joker, not with you. Right. That you don't. He doesn't exist. Right. Like. So and obviously that was going to happen because Todd was trying to sit like nobody cares that you're just.
00:30:33
Speaker
Arthur Fleck, and then you get to the end end, which I'll be honest with you, dude, it doesn't bother me. What bothers me is I think that Todd Phillips and his crew had an idea for the end of the movie. They wrote that and then wrote the movie backwards. So this is more, we've already spoiled the fuck out of it. This is a massive spoiler. If you haven't seen it, turn back now and go see it or don't. I don't really care.
00:31:02
Speaker
um
00:31:04
Speaker
and another inmate kills arthur fleck in the prison uh and you see them in the background carving their mouth out which people are saying is an omash heath ledger they're saying it is heath ledger which guys timeline here that doesn't work it's not heath ledger it's not heath leather's joker for sure right 100 well because one this movie takes place like back in the day, right? Yeah. So Bruce's parents get killed the end of one at the end of Joker one. And then this movie, I think is like four years later, five years later. um So, yeah, it makes no sense. It doesn't does not add up because Bruce was a kid. Right. And he he was no more than a teenager when when ah Joker when this part of the movie happens.
00:31:56
Speaker
Uh, kills Joaquin. You seem in the background carving his mouth out. What was your thought on that part?
00:32:06
Speaker
So I, it felt like a slap in the face. Personally. Now I know you said you liked it or you didn't have a problem with it. Not that you liked it, but you don't have a problem with it. It's not my biggest beef with the movie. Yeah. I feel if you.
00:32:26
Speaker
kill Arthur in the, in the manner that you did just as like a, oh it felt throw away to me. Really? Yeah. Oh, because the attention is drawn to the guy in the background. caring it Right. off Right. Now, if you killed him in a more like, let's say in an angry mob,
00:32:57
Speaker
Like if they, if, if after the courtroom, whole thing happened, right? The explosion, whatever, if they took it, cause at, after that, everybody's still all the anarchists or whatever that are on his side are still on his side. If they took that aspect out of it and then had like all of the people on his side turn against him and killed him.
00:33:29
Speaker
I feel like it would been a better way. But then at the same time, if what's the point of this movie? If you're just going to kill him, what's the point? I don't know.
Disappointment with Joker 2
00:33:41
Speaker
This whole like in my letterbox review, I said everything that they wanted to accomplish in this movie, you could have just squeezed at the very end of the first movie. As in him dying. Yeah. He could have been dead after the car accident.
00:33:57
Speaker
and the and And the first one, before he gets up and rubs the blood on his face? Right. he got to die I mean, there was several opportunities to kill him, I guess. What's the whole, and like the whole Harley thing? Felt very... well Yeah. I was going to ask you, we thought about Harley Quinn. I don't um't know if I hated Lady Gaga's performance, but it didn't feel very Harley Quinn to me. Yeah. No. I mean, they had, you find out like they,
00:34:26
Speaker
She basically ah lied to Arthur the whole time. um she She admitted herself into Arkham to meet him, essentially. Right. And you find out that, yes, she is, you know, a psychiatrist. that The usual Harley Quinn stuff.
00:34:47
Speaker
Yes, in there, but they didn't do anything with her character that really made me care about her. She was just kind of thrown in there at moments. She's just there. Yeah. I love Harley Quinn as a character. um I mean, I think most of the DC fandom. Right. Who doesn't. Right. Right. But this is probably the worst portrayal of Harley Quinn. It felt thrown in there as a fan.
00:35:16
Speaker
I heard on another podcast that it was possibly studio interference, like they wanted to have this character in it, which maybe to keep it light keep the DC fans involved, like having Harvey Dent.
00:35:31
Speaker
those kind of people. That pissed me off too though. I just feel like all of it is to your throw away. You don't need it. It's yeah like Harvey Dent. Harvey Dent should have been a way bigger character. I was just going to say this movie struggles balancing if it wants to be a movie about mental health and a DC movie. That's the struggle. It doesn't know which which land wants to be in or be a musical.
00:35:56
Speaker
right it's in it's it's trying to dip its toes into all these lanes and to your point i don't it doesn't does not connect nothing connects and i like i said i'm in the movie up until he reveals that he's actually i i think the rape is where i'm out
00:36:15
Speaker
That's where that's where I got this interested because then what are you trying to say? I don't know what you're trying. I'm so confused at the messaging here of what it's supposed to be. and It's like I really went down a spiral after this movie of trying to figure out like what the fuck like did I just watch? Right. You're basically saying like.
00:36:36
Speaker
he He was finding himself. He was happy with what he has become, right? He finally became somebody. At the end of Joker 1, he's like, this is who I am, essentially what the movie said. And then you go do everything in your power to continue that theme and then make just an abrupt shift. Like literally just out of nowhere, just go, you know what? No, I'm actually just Arthur Fleck. I'm a little old broken man, which obviously he's broken. But like, what is the was the point of him not owning Joker anymore. And that I guess my my what I'm trying to say is the turn did not feel earned at all.
00:37:14
Speaker
from there, but you know what? No, I'm not Joker. It doesn't feel earned. It kind of takes away from everything from the first movie. That's my biggest thing. Like, we don't need, we didn't, the whole first movie grounded in reality, right? It's a completely different take on Joker, right? Which I appreciate, yeah. Right. We don't need the the crime boss, the the Batman stuff, right? Because that's not what this is about. Right.
00:37:39
Speaker
But this whole movie really felt unnecessary. unnecessary You didn't need it, yeah. That's the that's the whole the whole we point. we don't need we We didn't need this movie. This movie's fucking stupid. Pointless.
Superhero Movie Fatigue
00:37:52
Speaker
I didn't, yeah. um Yeah, I mean, we've we've covered the points that I wanted to cover. i like i Like we said, I don't get, I just don't get the shift. I liked, I enjoyed Arthur being on trial. Harley Quinn just kind of felt thrown in and not really
00:38:12
Speaker
utilized. I don't know. I mean, people I've heard people say online that she was manipulating Arthur. um But from what the context of the first movie, ah she's just confirming his already initial belief of you're the Joker. This is who you are. Right? What does she gain from manipulating him?
00:38:37
Speaker
I think popularity was what she was as far as this character right because then you like you see you're like in the news Like putting herself out there for him and defending him and all that kind of stuff um I think That's what I wrote I was like they we didn't need a second move but they sure do try to make one and it just feels like a disaster It is it's a disaster. what it is It's a disaster. I mean, this is gonna be one of the biggest bombs of all time.
00:39:05
Speaker
100% for sure. And people are saying in 10 years, we're going to look back and say this is actually a very good film and I don't. I can't see it. I can't see that. Maybe there's a group here that I mean, the average on letterbox is a 2.5, but there are people I mean, most of the people that I follow have given us below a two star, but there's a few four stars, three and a half. Raiders of the Lost podcast gave us a five.
00:39:36
Speaker
Respectfully, I'm happy for those people though. Yeah, if they're if they're seeing something that we're not I'm glad They're saying the whole point of Arthur not being Joker or like disassociating from Joker and just being himself was the point of the movie It just doesn't it doesn't work and doesn't feel earned. That's that's my biggest beef, right? ah But and walking note nothing on Joaquin Phoenix his performance. Yeah, I didn't get to say that his performance is great. I back into the role. Yeah, he jumped back into the role like it was nothing. It was shot very well. Right. A lot of see a lot of scenes looked very cool. If anything, this is showing us the burnout in the superhero genre. I don't know. Burnout is the
00:40:24
Speaker
right word, because I think Todd Phelps was, in I guess you're saying amongt amongst the fandom is burnt out. Yeah. Okay. But yes, I agree with that. Um, I think people are saying online that Todd Phelps was trying to make an anti superhero fan movie, which based on our reactions and most people out there's reactions is fair and believable. He probably was, but I don't get what if you weren't trying to make it for the superhero fan or that that genre of people who are you trying to make it for the general audience because the general audience who has not seen the first one didn't go see it because it's a superhero associated film right so yeah so it's i'm just lost on this movie um i would love to get
00:41:13
Speaker
This is going to sound wild, but if they do a physical release and they have like a behind the scenes or interview with Todd Phillips and the crew about what they wanted with this movie. I would just love to hear from him what. The goal or the mission of this movie was. Because I find I find it my again, I.
00:41:34
Speaker
I don't love that they killed him at the end. They had a new guy in the background. I don't love that. But obviously Joaquin would be too old or Arthur would be too old to be the Batman of that you ah to be the Joker of that universe anyways. So is that is that what their is that what that guy was like? He's he's the new like actual Joker. I think so. But we don't. But again, you're just trying to dip your toes in too many puddles. Right. um No, no, no, it's Gary puddles. I'm just appalled that Arthur got raped and that all of a sudden got rid of his mental illness and he was able to see clearly that, oh, I'm not, I'm just Arthur. Wouldn't that delve him deeper? That's, yes. To me, that's appalling. Um, as someone with a mental illness, like, you know, I, uh, having past trauma brought up is not going to do anything else, but cut deeper. And his, I mean, and even in the first one, his therapist, uh,
00:42:34
Speaker
you know It's like a state-appointed therapist. ah I'm not saying the acting was bad, but her character does not seem fully invested in Arthur. but She's a state-appointed therapist. she's not like a There's no investment on on her end. for like what is you know For what reason would she try? Right. um So yeah, if you want to our ratings are the same. I might drop it even lower than yours. but I have it at ah at a one and a half. Yeah, I might drop mine. I mean, when I left the theater I was at a one and a half. I haven't rated it yet, but it's probably going to be a one and a half for a one for me. I think this is one of the biggest flops, bombs, cash grab. i wrote We both wrote cash grab, I think, in our reviews, right? I think it's completely a cash grab. But I don't know if you can call it a cash grab because it's not going to do well.
00:43:33
Speaker
No, and it's not and it's not it might not even make its money back on the budget. I mean, it's that bad I know that is a cash grab I have no idea if you can even call it that like something like Deadpool Wolverine that did very well You could say is a cash grab yeah, but Like that movie what that that's a good that movie was completely unnecessary Right. Yes, it's fan service fan service, right, but it was fun.
00:43:58
Speaker
Sure. I don't mind that movie. But this movie was I guess with the musical aspects. It was supposed to be kind of fun. That I'm just saying that movie was never going to be a foliar. Do is never going to be a fun. Sure. Because that's not the universe it's set in. Right. But I didn't enjoy myself. I I'm going to see a movie to enjoy myself.
00:44:24
Speaker
You know? Or at least that' if it's going to be on serious topics, like the good movies leave you like a lasting impression and like make you think afterwards. And the thought process in my head was more of like, what was that? Not like, hmm, I wonder what the director meant by that. Which I am also wondering, what did he mean? Because it doesn't make any sense. I don't know. DC, I thought, was not on the come up, but. Well, we'll see what James Gunn cooks up.
00:44:52
Speaker
That's the thing. I don't know where yeah you're at, but I am still pretty spent from the end of Infinity War ah or Endgame, sorry. Once that finished, I've been kind of checked out. Yeah. I mean, I'm not going to go see the new... I do think Captain America ah New World Order. I think that the trailer at least make it look good. Really? You think so?
00:45:22
Speaker
My only concern is I know Harrison Ford notoriously just fucking... cooks it as far as performances, like he's just sending it in from afar. And he really has never committed to a role in quite some time. I'll be honest. I don't know how what his investment level is on this on that movie. I'm not excited for another superhero movie until Fantastic Four. Really? I'll be honest with you. And you're excited for that? I am. I'm kind of just like, I haven't seen anything about it besides the casting.
00:45:55
Speaker
That's what gets me. Which also to the listener, we haven't reviewed a superhero film because we're both just so cooked on the genre. Right. Like, I mean, it was confirmed that Tom Holland signed on for another, what, three? I think. Another three. Another trilogy. Yeah, probably. Like that's cool. Um,
00:46:21
Speaker
But what are they going to do with it? It's it's it's going to be hard to get any kind of momentum back and involvement or momentum is a better word. Yeah. ah Just because the.
00:46:37
Speaker
After Endgame. The movies they put out were just not great. I'm not a huge. Mouth of Madness. Mouth of Madness? Is that what it's called? ah Multiverse of Madness. Mouth of Madness is a carpenter
Ranking Joker Portrayals
00:46:50
Speaker
film. Sorry guys. yeah I'm not a fan of that movie. I like i like No Way Home.
00:46:58
Speaker
But it also feels a little gas grabbed at me. Which by the way, I don't know if I told you guys this, but I swore to God I saw Alfred Molina in Italy. You sent me that picture. You see that picture, bro? Yeah. It looks like him, right? I could see it. Yeah. yeah like it Like an old Doc Ock. And my family said no. And we'll post it on, actually, we'll post it on our page. And you guys let us know. I think it's Alfred Molina. Besides Deadpool and Wolverine, which, you know,
00:47:25
Speaker
You could say whatever you want about that movie, but the last superhero movie that I saw that I actually enjoyed was the Robert Pattinson Batman. That movie's great. Right. That's Matt Reeves who did, he's just so good in these serious tone, more earth, like down to earth films. And I haven't seen ah the new Penguin series. is cooking that Apparently it's great. Yeah. And it takes place in the same universe, which would make sense. Yeah. um So I don't, I don't know. I don't know. I haven't been able to dip my toe into that yet, because I'm still so cooked from superhero genre movies.
00:48:01
Speaker
ah That's why the Joker, are we going to call it a franchise now? I don't know. The two movies they put out was a little bit more refreshing because it wasn't. I don't get how Joker one is a standard comic book movie. I think it strays from most superhero films. I agree. I don't think it's the generic set up of a comic book movie. It deals with more down to earth topics.
00:48:29
Speaker
Um And like I said, I know it's a hot take the taxi driver is I don't like it as much as joker But I I totally get why people think it's ripoff. I I agree people think that the uh Movie king of comedy, uh, it's a ripoff too and king king of comedy is great. I love king of comedy. Uh, I actually Would probably rate them the same Joker one and king of comedy, but king of comedy came first Anyways, um so that's our review, I think. We're kind of going in circles a little bit. But we both gave it a one and a half. Mine might be a one. This is one of my biggest disappointments of the year. I guess I i was suspicious of it from the beginning, because like we don't need it. That's the whole thing. It didn't need it. We didn't need it, so. um We'll end the episode with a little fun um ranking.
00:49:21
Speaker
of all the jokers for you guys, the main ones. ah We are including Mark Hamill because I think it'd be disingenuous not to include him. Oh, I agree.
00:49:32
Speaker
um You want to go first? I have some mix up in mind that you I don't think you might have put, so that's why I'm going to let you go first. Do you want to shoot like ah five, five, four, four, go up the list like that?
00:49:50
Speaker
No, because I my list is more than five. My list is one, two, three, four, five, six. My list is eight. Eight. Eight. I have four or five. Sorry. No, I'll let you go and then I'll go. I think I know both are our top two is probably the same. All right. Well, this is going to tell you right here who I'm leaving out. Yeah. ah Number five, we got Jared Leto. Oh, shit. OK, go ahead.
00:50:20
Speaker
Um, I will left out Caesar Fox's name. Romero Romero. Okay. That's fair. Um, not that Jared Leto is good. He's not in any means, but it was a fresh take. We can recall it that right. Fresh take.
00:50:45
Speaker
What's a fresh take? Oh, he did? Yes, it was very different. Correct. Different. um
00:50:54
Speaker
He's not good. No. are you Do you like him more than Cesar Romero? Yeah. Is it because Cesar Romero's thing is too goofy? I think so, yeah. I'm not going to... He's higher than Leto in my ranking, but I'm not going to argue you on that. All right.
00:51:12
Speaker
Um, we might get hot. All right. Number four, we got Jack Nicholson.
00:51:23
Speaker
Okay. Is that hot for you? It's not hot. I mean, I'd say it's warm, probably warm. I'll see what the rest of your list is. Then I'll let you know. I don't know. All right. Number three, we have Joaquin. Okay. It's not that hot. It's like warm. Okay. Number two.
00:51:44
Speaker
Heath Ledger. Yeah, i yeah we have the same ranking. And number one is Mark Hamill. Yeah, he's the goat. Mark Hamill is the fucking goat. A lot of people leave him off lists because it's dis that's disrespectful. It's fucking disrespectful. again You tell me who has betrayed Joker better. Well, some people would probably say Ledger, but I Hamill's voice acting skills, he like if you watch an animated Batman series and you hear whoever the fuck they put to do Joker, you're like, that's not right. The same way, RIP Kevin Conroy, if he's not voicing Batman, I'm out. I agree with you. And Mark Hamill said, since Kevin Conroy passed, hes he's done. Which is still in so much respect, dude. 100%. All right, so I have eight, I added a couple people.
00:52:38
Speaker
Uh, the bottom of my list is Jared Leto. I agree with you that it's a fresh take. Um, doesn't mean I like it. No, but it, uh, cause they, did you know, it was a fresh take with Harley, but Harley went well, you know? Oh, you can want Harley, um, Margot Robbie. I like, yeah, Harley Quinn's great. Great. I agree. Yeah. Um,
00:53:01
Speaker
Here's where I added somebody. If we're able to count them, and the only reason why he's so low is because I haven't seen enough, ah Barry Keogan from the Batman, Matt Reeves. OK. I liked what I saw, and I'd like to see more. But until I see more, he's at the bottom of the list. That's fair. Cesar Romero. I just think he's owed some respect.
00:53:25
Speaker
ah Again, he's very goofy, but that's the style of that. That's what yeah the whole show is goofy. You know, shows goofy. The movie was goofy. I get it. um yeah Again, no disrespect. It's just not for me. It's like, yeah, it's like the quarterbacks that played in the NFL back in the day. The style of the game was different. It's just a shout out. Yeah. Joe Namath, Terry Bradshaw.
00:53:49
Speaker
um um My next one is Joaquin Phoenix. I think he gives, he doesn't have enough to look at, but he, that's not true. He has two films, but his first film was amazing. And I just i liked him in the new one. I just don't, it's hard to beat who I'm going to read off. I will say, I think Joaquin next to Mark Hamill has the best laugh Yeah. Chris Ledger's wasn't really a laughing type. No. And Nicholson, I didn't like his laugh at all. Mm hmm. It felt too weird. Weird. Almost campy.
00:54:32
Speaker
Yeah. um The next one, I know you didn't count because I don't think you've seen it. ah Cameron Monaghan, I think his name is. i dont He was the character that played the Joker in the Gotham series. Oh, the one who they didn't classify. They didn't call him Joker. but what he He fucking was. Let me tell you something.
00:54:51
Speaker
I watched Gotham over Covid. He's fucking amazing. I mean, he's very, very good. And the only reason why he's lower is because he's behind legends and he wasn't in a feature length film and he wasn't dressed up as the Joker. But he gives a standout performance. If we weren't counting him, the next one would be Nicholson. So our Phoenix Nick Slinger swapped. OK. Nicholson is higher for me ah because of.
00:55:18
Speaker
Sentiment I think just because I grew up watching it and I just I just love him for that and I just My first introduction to a a Jack Nicholson film was Batman. Oh me too. So yeah for me It's just sentiment really like and then I mean you got to give it to him because big-name actors back then doing fucking superhero movies Come on now. Yeah, and he knocked it out of the park for the time being like I just yeah and I mean, there's a lot of practical effect work. Makeup work is good. I just think he's so goofy and yet dark at the same time. I think about the scene where he falls in Nevada acid a lot. um Number two is ledger number one's Hamill. It's the same. It was hard not to... When I text you and ask you to do this, I wrote Hamill included on purpose because I just feel like he does not get the respect he deserves. He doesn't.
00:56:07
Speaker
and that's Yeah, break my heart. I love Hamill and all due respect to Heath Ledger. I would have loved. Here's a hot take for you. I would have loved to see them if Ledger had not passed away, them do another movie with him in it. Oh, yeah, because it was supposed to be longer. The Dark Knight was supposed to be longer. ah But obviously, and he unfortunately passed away.
00:56:30
Speaker
um Yes, those are our our ratings for jokers again, I think just the only thing that's really different is Leto and Romero, which is to each their own. I'm i'm not mad about it. It's like you put let a one Yeah, like i never would i do that yeah um and I just wanted to give a shout out to Cameron. I can't pronounce his last name Monogen Because he's great and I hope yeah
00:56:59
Speaker
I was trying to hit a button, but it didn't work. okay ah All right. ah We hope you enjoyed our ah our review of Joker 2. um Next I guess is coming out Friday. So Tuesday trick-or-treat Which we already recorded and things got heated And things got fucking heated that episode ah and it's not about the movie cuz movies fucking great
00:57:31
Speaker
about the movie dude I cannot wait to see I'm definitely gonna clip that oh you have to yeah, um I Can't wait to see what people say about that It's a good episode and then Friday next week week from today when you're hearing this ah the winner of the fan voted poll the dissent Yes, sir, ah and I will let you
00:58:00
Speaker
Follow us on Instagram, TwoGuysOneScreenPod. Send any comments, concerns, requests to TwoGuysOneScreenPod at gmail dot.com. Follow us on our letterbox. Link are in the description. And stay tuned for a clips page on YouTube and TikTok. Again, probably won't be until November, november hopefully, if not beginning of December. I just want to have enough clips to post consistently. Sure. Is what it comes down to. Stock pile. Stock pile, some clips up. um And then if you haven't listened to some of the older episodes, go listen to them. Friday the 13th episode is an all timer. I mean, it was so fucking off the rails funny. Trick or treat, might give it some ah competition.
00:58:52
Speaker
It's not as, yeah as far as clicks, yes, but as my personal favorites, I think Friday the 13th was funnier. funny um Go listen to all the episodes. Inside is criminally low on views right now. I know it only came out when we recorded this four days ago. um That's an all-time masterpiece gore movie. Yes. ah Go fucking listen to that episode. What a great film. And it,
00:59:20
Speaker
2017 it listen to the house special that movie is to me and Gert's friendship um And until next time we will see you guys toodles fuck you mark