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S3 Ep220: Stranger Things
77 Plays3 years ago
FULL SPOILERS: Stranger Things Seasons 1, 2, 3, and 4!
Join Dave and Jake as they talk about...wait this can't be right...a TV show?
Intro:
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Join Dave and Jake as they talk about...wait this can't be right...a TV show?
Intro:
- Kyle Dixon & Michael Stein - Kids (Kapka remix)
- C418 - stranger_think
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Like our podcast? Like our podcast! We'll post when new episodes are uploaded!
https://www.facebook.com/SoapstonePodcast/
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Transcript
Introduction and Names
00:00:57
Speaker
How's it going, everyone? Welcome to another episode of Soapstone. My name is Jake and I'm joined by my co-host is always Dave. How's it going tonight, Dave? Strange. Yeah. What's weird about tonight? No, I recently got my PhD. So now I'm a doctor of strange. I know, I know you like to sometimes marvel at my accolades, but you don't need to. It's fine. You can show restraint. Yeah.
00:01:25
Speaker
I'm not going to be able to follow up on that. Ideally, this would be where I had the follow up on like right off the cuff. But that's for someone who's a little quicker, I think. And then one person like, oh, is it actually they're talking about Doctor Strange? Right. Oh, right. Right. That's what Marvel makes sense now, too. Oh. Yeah, no, I get what you're saying. He does have a weird name. I mean, like, obviously, haha, funny, strange, but like.
00:01:53
Speaker
I do feel like to a certain extent that would impact, you know, like the people that have names where it's like the first thing you think about them is going to be a pun. Like, and they have to, they have to carry that through life. Right. It's like, I have a normal last name in comparison because I don't want that burden. Um, cause it's like.
00:02:16
Speaker
Introduce yourself as Dr. Strange. I'm like, how many people would just be like, ha ha, that's a, that's a weird name. There'd be like something like that. You're like, no, it's, it was. Yeah. I've met enough, you know, uncle types in my time to be like, I, I can't entertain this type of humor. It's lowbrow, lowbrow at best. The reason I feel strongly about this is I'm actually in the camp. Uh, I haven't been my entire life, but at some point.
00:02:43
Speaker
State Farm made a certain series of advertisements, and that has become way more popular in the American zeitgeist than I ever thought possible, because that's the association I get with random strangers and things like that. I'm like, haha, you're not the first one.
00:03:07
Speaker
I mean, I get it, though. It's the it's the knee jerk. Like, how do I make a friendly connection with this person? Oh, something that they'd probably know. And a nice, nice, light joke. Then there's like 1700, 1700 time I've heard this fucking shit. It's the same thing. Yeah. It's like if you're a retail worker and someone comes up and they're like, there is no price tag on this. Guess that means it's free, right? You're like, no.
00:03:35
Speaker
Sir, I'm gonna call security and have you killed. That's what I don't tell you about much of a retail story. That's what security can do. Is exert lethal force when necessary? Yeah.
00:03:51
Speaker
Yeah, at the behest of our employees. Yeah, for sure.
Stranger Things: Intro and Nostalgia
00:03:57
Speaker
But I suspect perhaps the Marvel joke was just a roundabout way to talk about tonight's topic.
00:04:09
Speaker
Stranger things. Yes. I know you were ready. You're like, all right, ready for the next joke. Lean's in. Well, I wasn't sure if like you were doing the setup for like, Oh, and Dave will say it. I'm like, they don't fucking have it in stereo where we're in different ears and it's going to be impactful. We could, but it would be disconcerting AF. Um, to just have that swap in the middle of the episode.
00:04:35
Speaker
No, I was thinking like for the whole episode, it's just constantly split. Oh. Well, we have a guest. They're also just somewhere in there. They're just like in surround sound. They're like back right. They get the god echo.
00:04:50
Speaker
Yeah. Now, I've when I record, I think probably the same for you. You're recording, you know, on one input for like the condenser mic input for the audio interface. And so like by default, that actually will just go to a single channel. So it'd be really easy to do just left and right ears. But
00:05:12
Speaker
It doesn't sound good. It feels uncomfortable to hear people from different. No, it sucks. You're like, what's wrong with my audio? Which is why in the very few cases where it's used in a song, I think we mentioned once there's a run the jewel song or we won't remain in our places is the line. And then they have remain in our places in two different sides. I'm like, oh, that's a nice little touch. That's smart. But it's not so jarring.
00:05:41
Speaker
Yeah, it's, uh, there's ways to mitigate it a little bit, or sometimes people have instruments that'll like kind of travel from one side to the other. But, um, yeah, we're not doing that with a podcast. That's, that's the one request, you know, we're not acquiescing to, um, thank you for all your suggestions, but we're not changing the audio. It's weird that that's the only one we get though. Episode ideas. Oh, no, just a specific audio things. Okay. Uh-huh. Yeah.
00:06:12
Speaker
But I guess for a little bit of a meta point, we haven't really talked about shows before, or if we have, it's kind of been in passing within the context of a larger episode. We definitely haven't had a dedicated episode on a show before. How do you feel about this going into it? I'm super nervous.
00:06:38
Speaker
I don't believe you. Yeah, it's easier to talk about something that you you have experience with and a decent recollection of versus. Oh, do you remember the land before time? I'm big kind of tree stars. That's all I can really say about it. The belief. Say good. I'll say at least with Stranger Things, season four came out fairly recently within the last two months.
00:07:07
Speaker
Is that right? I don't know how time works since like 2020, but that sounds roughly correct. But also like people keep watching like recap stuff in between like seasons. And I feel like it's still pretty fresh in everybody's memory of the overall story beats of Stranger Things. Right. And I also assume that most people have seen it at this point, or at least familiar with the concept.
00:07:32
Speaker
Yeah. D&D the show. Oh my gosh. Literally D&D 3.5 or even just 5th edition itself just transcribed into visual media for everybody.
00:07:47
Speaker
uh-huh i know i know i'm just preparing um yeah so uh let's scope this out we're gonna be talking about stranger things as a whole right everything potentially prior to season four although you know probably not in an episode by episode recap just you know full spoilers on all that as well as full spoilers on season four so if you autoplay to this
00:08:15
Speaker
and you actually haven't watched Stranger Things, then stick around. We're going to spoil everything. That's the disclaimer.
00:08:25
Speaker
So when Stranger Things first came out, I have an explicit memory of watching like the title sequence and having the music kick in and it being like the mind blowing experience of like, oh, this is Netflix. This is the future. And it was very exciting and thrilling of like this dark kind of Scooby Doo adventure, tangential enough to reality for you to relate to, but enough fantasy to be like, I'm excited. What's going on? I want to solve the mystery with the kids.
00:08:56
Speaker
Yeah, it's very much in that vein. And I love that they really haven't changed the intro. I think they've re-rendered it a little bit, but it's really brief. It's incredibly short. If anything, it's kind of like, it reminds me in some ways of like Westworld, who doesn't have like a very long intro either. I'm gonna say how they differ, right? Stranger Things is literally just the logo.
00:09:23
Speaker
And that's like it. Westworld's this whole process for the intro, like the creating of the, can't remember what they're called, but that's fine. I'm not going, what are they? Hosts. Hosts,
Stranger Things: Season 1 and Demogorgon Discussion
00:09:35
Speaker
yeah. Not going into Westworld for this, but they're both like short as compared to like an anime open where it's just like credits versus like while a song's playing and all this is going on, like interspersed with a bunch of action from either, you know, stuff that's going to go on this season.
00:09:51
Speaker
And Westworld would put like kind of in the middle. It's giving you some exposition about what's going on. That classic anime openings all the way over here on the side where it's like we're literally just going to show you spoilers from later in the season. It's a logo, right? It's a logo plus synth. Yeah, it's the title card approach.
00:10:13
Speaker
Mm-hmm. It's like hey, here's your little intro of whatever was it's like just you know, this is stranger things you're gonna go shit Yeah, that's when you know, like hey the episodes are going down for real Uh-huh. It's it's not not fake this time. This one's an actual episode I like it though. It's a good primer. It gets you like in the mood like for that universe. It's like, all right I'm ready to be titillated. Let's go stranger things. What's going on?
00:10:41
Speaker
Also a side thing, if you haven't heard the Childish Gambino mix of that, we're likely to take one of his songs and then just, it's like matched beat perfect with the Stranger Things theme. It is very good. I listened to that way too many times.
00:10:58
Speaker
I don't think I've heard that one, so you might have to send that one to me. Those are rollers of my YouTube favorites. The one I'm thinking of is there's, it's on YouTube. It's Kyle Dixon, Michael Stein, Kids, which is like the theme song for the kids, Capco remix. That one came out in like 2016.
00:11:20
Speaker
Really good, really good. Um, if you think about like it, if you need more information about like what that song is, it's when the kids are like banding together about to do something motivational. Like it's there. It's the peak of the hero's journey for them. And a given season is usually when that song kicks in. Okay. Um, I think I'd have to hear it again too.
00:11:47
Speaker
recognize it uh i'd be like oh yeah you know what we'll just you know what's funny now that we've described it is we should just use some of these songs for like the intro and outro and just make the real time audible on that i mean literally every time we do like an intro and outro unless i'm going knee deep into like silva gunner bullshit that's what happens we're talking about the edits that we want to do and then it just happened in the episodes you're listening you're like
00:12:14
Speaker
Okay. So why did it get so good? So just hear their process as part of the episode and they use two minutes for that and like, yeah, yeah, that's how it goes. So I'll send you the link for that and then I'll edit the comment to say, use this for the intro. And depending the childish Gambino thing, I would advocate for the outro. Thank you guys for sticking around for a meta commentary about how we'll edit the episode while we're recording it.
00:12:40
Speaker
So going back to a stranger things, season one, I think season one was all around solid. Um, it really, obviously it's the first one. So it's setting the tone of everything. You have nothing else to compare it to. And it's very much this, I don't want to say hijinks adventure makes it sound too goofy. Yeah. It is this thriller mystery of where the fuck is will buyers, what's going on? Yeah.
00:13:07
Speaker
Because you're like, oh, small town Hawkins, Indiana. And then it's like. Prince's demon, Jake. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. This is like it's it's interesting thinking back on it because this is like the kids haven't proven themselves really at this point. They're just kids, right? They're not the heroes. You don't know the rules of the universe yet. You don't know like how likely the writers are to kill people off.
00:13:34
Speaker
It's a show that's like, I can't remember exactly like when they established that it's going to be okay to be like violent, right? Or like grotesque. But they do establish that, you know, fairly early on, I think.
00:13:50
Speaker
Um, I can't remember what season Barb dies. Is that one one? It is one. Yeah. Um, it was within like the first couple of episodes. Cause I think we'll have gone missing initially in episode one, the disappearance or vanishing of wheel buyers. And then Barb was the second person to go missing. Yeah. Where it was documented by Will's brother, Jonathan, right?
00:14:19
Speaker
Her death was basically, I think that was the moment for me where I was just like, Oh geez, like they're, they're really willing to make this like kinda, kinda serious, right? Like this is not kids show stuff. This is not Scooby-Doo.
00:14:35
Speaker
Um, this is a fairly brutal death of like a character who's killed kind of helplessly. Um, and you know, I know they revisit the trauma of that for like Nancy later and things like that, but, um, yeah, no, at the time I was like, you know, wide eyed, you know, staring at the screen, I don't know what they're going to do next. These kids not guaranteed to make it.
00:15:00
Speaker
Yeah, by season four, I think the kids will probably make it but I like that they added stakes to the show. Mm hmm. Because as I said before, in video games, like if you're or other medium, if you're having like certain storytelling, you have to have the stakes to a certain degree, depending on what type of tier of drama you're trying to convey. So this immediately becomes like, oh, it's a life or death thing. There's always the possibility that it is life and death for any given thing.
00:15:30
Speaker
Right. So your overall tension and suspense throughout the show is, oh, is somebody gonna fucking die randomly? I don't know. Because Barb was just, you know, mind your own fucking business and then boom.
00:15:41
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. There was no comeuppance for Barb. She was the the innocent victim. Yeah. Which, you know, if it was even if you go back to like horror movies, a lot of the times it's like, OK, innocent people might die at some point, but it's always like the loudest motherfucker. Yeah. Yeah. Somebody you want to see go first or something like that. They like to play that up because it's a give and take with the audience.
00:16:11
Speaker
Whereas this one, it's like, hey, you know, you could get invested with these characters, but
00:16:18
Speaker
you know, things are developing in the upside down, which I think you develop. They don't tell you much about that until like later in season one, if I remember correctly. It's somewhere in like the halfway point, because a lot of the overall storytelling you get is from the kids as like they're figuring it out as, you know, the characters you're getting told it as the audience. And like they flip the board game upside down. You're like, yeah, I get it.
00:16:45
Speaker
Yeah, sometimes sometimes the show does make things a little too literal. Right. But what do you think about because like obviously we'll talk about the other seasons a little bit, but as they've essentially gone through everything that they've described from D&D or from like their initial campaign or where they're at in that point in time then becomes
00:17:07
Speaker
their reality. Right. Or do you think it's them just mapping something that they do know, which is D and D to their current situation through like, Oh, this giant overarching thing. Oh, that's, that's the mind flayer.
00:17:20
Speaker
Uh-huh.
Character Development in Stranger Things
00:17:21
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's a very convenient storytelling shortcut to be like, hey, how do people relate to something that they have no concept of? You make an association. It's the same reason. If somebody was shambling after me in the morning when I went to check the mail, I'd be like, there's a chance there's a zombie outbreak right now. In reality,
00:17:47
Speaker
like why would I ever expect there to be a zombie outbreak this is fiction stuff but your brain associates that so same thing the kids did they're like we know about a monster that kind of sort of maybe relates to this
00:18:05
Speaker
It really doesn't. But, you know, like having more D&D knowledge. But it is. It's a nice shortcut. It's kind of funny, though, because like in like a real life situation, I feel like if I was playing a game, even if it was, you know, fantasy themed and then like some crazy shit went down, I'd be like, oh, so it's like that video game we were playing. How how uncanny is that? Uh huh.
00:18:28
Speaker
Oh, no, it's a Gwyn, Lord of Cinder. It's like, no, this guy like came up with a burning sword and like killed three of our friends. What are you doing? Yeah, no, it's it's a very different creature, right? Like Demogorgon and D&D, two heads, like tentacle arms. It's freaking gigantic. It shows up in some of the adventures. Demogorgon and Stranger Things is like flower head.
00:18:57
Speaker
like claws, I think it has. I can't remember exactly what's on its its arms, but like objectively, it's different. Like there's not actually really much that's similar, but these are kids.
00:19:11
Speaker
So they had this as a monster. It was in their head space. They find a real-life monster? Absolutely. They'll make that association. Good. I think that actually continues in season two, where you have the demi-dogs. Because you're like, oh, it's the same type of thing with the flower head. But it's on four legs. It's a dog. Yes. It appears like I'm projecting into more monsters. Makes sense.
00:19:37
Speaker
The first time is a Demogorgon. These ones are dogs, you know, all monsters. We'll go from those back to more fantasy monsters. Most people prefer the Democats, but they haven't come up in the season yet. Yeah. Waiting for the big reveal. But if we're talking about the monster, I don't know if you had other things you wanted to speak about in that space, are you ready to talk about Demogorgon in general?
00:20:02
Speaker
Yeah, we can talk about it. I like that because it's very much it's all unknown at this point in season one that you literally have like a faceless monster entity and you just know, oh, it's in the upside down, but it can sometimes get into our world. Yeah. So you have the suspense of like when and where is it going to happen? And how the fuck is will still alive? You know, because it doesn't seem like it's survival instincts and, uh,
00:20:30
Speaker
I mean, you've seen it like fuck people up. So like, yeah, he's the, he's the unlikely survivor. There's a lot of attention for him. Um, I think the Demogorgon, like the first time you see it is when 11 finds it in the upside down, right? She's like looking for someone and reaches out while it's feeding.
00:20:51
Speaker
That sounds right. Yeah, I'm probably in like the blackout mind space when she's like initially helping look for Will, who she doesn't even know at this point. But she's just helping her new friends. But like they do they do. The credit I want to give like season one is that they do a really good job of like hide hide your power level is probably the trope. But like do that for the monster. Right. Like the Demogorgon.
00:21:21
Speaker
in season one is a completely different threat level than the Demogorgon in season four. Right? Like it's in season one, it's like it's straight up abducting people and it's like, okay, it's like fed on a deer and it's carnivore and they're like getting these little pieces of information about it. It's got like these localized portals. It can kind of like dip into reality and like dip back out in a way. It's predator. It's basically predator. It's basically predator. Yeah.
00:21:51
Speaker
And it's really serious. It's like, there's no way we could fight this thing. And so they have to like use their god child 11 to ultimately like vaporize it later.
00:22:04
Speaker
And just to skip ahead a little bit, like by season four, some injured malnourished guy kills one with a sword. So like, yeah, there's, there's a difference. Um, admittedly it was lit. It was caught on fire, but still he kills it with a sword. Yeah. It's, it's very much.
00:22:25
Speaker
And part of it's the power creep of a show or just in media in general. As you go, you have to have the stakes increase. Otherwise, shouldn't they have learned from this experience or why are they still fighting the putties in Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles? Those are literally trash at this point.
00:22:46
Speaker
And the other part of it is literally in season one, like everything is unknown. Uh, so they didn't know about like the fire weakness until towards the very end of season one where they're like, it's been like fire PS. Nobody likes being set on fire. I don't know if you can jump to that conclusion. Um, but they found something that worked and then they use it later on as a, Hey, this is something that we can keep in our books as, as useful versus demo anything. Yeah.
00:23:13
Speaker
It's kind of the very traditional problem solving approach to like a boss. And using your analogy, it's like episode one of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Shredder doesn't just like show up and start beating them to death, right? Like you need some escalation before you reach that, which I think is like season five of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. I can't remember, but.
00:23:35
Speaker
Yeah, like by the end, the Demogorgon is just seen as more of a creature than intelligent. And you have no idea of the concept of that, like in season one.
00:23:48
Speaker
because of this hidden knowledge thing. It's like if this was to go back to D&D for a second, you deal with like the most localized threat first, right? You're in someone's basement hunting rats or something, right? Clearing out rats from the basement. Once you're done with that, you're like, hey, maybe the town has a problem.
00:24:06
Speaker
Let's go look at an issue for the town. You're like, OK, now the region has a problem. Now the world has a problem. Right. It's like, are we going to pick one of us to be elevated to be a god? Yeah, it's it's still rats. Just bigger and bigger rats. Uh huh. But I mean, it's a tried and true method of making it feel like the cameras zooming back on like the mind map of everything involved. And you're seeing a bigger picture of what's happening behind the scenes.
00:24:37
Speaker
Yeah, that's a lot of the drawing is the mystery of the universe and not knowing everything up front. Because if you knew everything up front, you'd be like, Oh, I can piece together one, what's happening to what they probably should do. Then it's easier, like pick holes in a story of, well, why don't they just take the Eagles and drop off the rings at like type thing where you have like the full picture to then make that commentary. Well, the Eagles are proud. And also there's the Nazgul.
00:25:05
Speaker
You know, you got to get out of account for him. So. Oh, they possess the Eagles. No, I mean, the theory would be it wouldn't be a guaranteed approach if the Dark Lord was just like, hey, there's giant birds and they find them out. Doom. Let's let's go. But yeah.
00:25:29
Speaker
I think it's definitely helpful and it would have recontextualized things. Like if you theorize, if we knew about like Vecna in season one, we'd be like, why are we spending so much time with this Demogorgon thing? Your brain wants to go to the most important, the most dangerous thing at any time. So you hide your power level, you hide the danger.
00:25:54
Speaker
These are all just under leans for whoever the antagonist of the Power Rangers is. That lady, I can't remember her name. This is Mighty Morphin is the one I'm thinking of. It's not Zordon.
Themes of Season 3
00:26:09
Speaker
Pretty sure there's a guy in a to a lady in an antagonist. Oh, Rita Repulsa. Yes, Rita Repulsa. Thank you. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:26:19
Speaker
I just keep her design. 30 minutes of analogies for the one thing from 90s cartoons, you remember that? Yeah, yeah. But all in all, like season one, solid. I grew to like all of the characters to a degree where you're like, oh, I understand their personality and who they are. And at this point, like I do not dislike anybody. I'm just like, that was a cool show. I'm excited to see what they do for season two.
00:26:49
Speaker
I would say just one more note on season one, like they had a pretty good balance on personal life issues and then like what in the world is going on past midnight in darkness horror land. Um, and so like you were learning about the characters and the characters were growing together and you know, like bonding as a team. Um, the kids are just trying to get other parents. I was like, we have to go save the world. Mom, stop stuff like that. Where it's relatable. Right. So.
00:27:19
Speaker
I wish he had the excuse as a kid. Well, I mean, it's better than like the Pokemon approach where like Ash just goes off at 10 to be like, yo, I'm gonna go explore the world on my own. Peace. And everybody's like, does nobody see an issue with that? Ash's mom's just like, fine, I was going to invite somebody over and needed a reason to get out of the house anyways. That is one of the going theories that you're just fucking professor.
00:27:46
Speaker
Professor Rook's just like man Pokemon are kind of expensive, but it's really funny Yeah season one very solid What are your impressions on season two? Was two the next one or was it a we might go to three?
00:28:09
Speaker
But yeah, season two, it continues on like a year later. One of my issues with this transition, which you'll, you'll see again many times is at the end of season one, 11 is presumed to be dead because she was your psychic energy and like disappeared along with, uh, the Demogorgon, you're like, Oh, she dead that the end. They're like.
00:28:30
Speaker
Or is she? And then at the beginning of season two, they're like, hey, we still believe this person is alive. We just haven't seen them all the whole time. Was that acres in the forest? Yeah. Yeah. OK. That was one of them. I think there might have been another something they did for it. But then in like season two at the beginning of it, they're very soon like, ah, we're just kidding. She's right here, type of thing. And they do that a lot. And I understand it's like the suspense between seasons, but like,
00:28:58
Speaker
I don't unless you see me unless sorry unless you show me somebody being rudely murdered on screen They're fucking alive because I know you at this point Going back to Lord of the Rings. Yes, the ball rug pulled Gandalf down, you know, like in so far underground But we didn't see Gandalf die. So he's not dead. It's just like exactly
00:29:19
Speaker
Whereas Boromir on the other hand, fucking destroyed. We're going to simultaneously talk about all of the things. Everything. Yeah. Yeah, I don't remember too much about season two, like the some of the middle seasons, kind of like.
00:29:39
Speaker
Don't go as easily together for me. So I don't really remember the antagonist of season two if you could Yeah, they've been reading been doing all these recaps today season two is basically I think also the end of season one
00:29:54
Speaker
Well, buyers is like, man, I'm sure glad that trauma is over. And it coughs up like a black slogan in the sun. Yeah. And he has like visions of the upside down. So like, you know, there's still like a darkness presence. Yeah. Yeah. This is the one with the shadow monster and he's basically affixed to will to some degree. And there's like the tunnels later on under Hawkins and there's like the demo dogs. Mm hmm.
00:30:22
Speaker
And this is also the season where Steve Harrington becomes one of the best characters because he becomes, he plays the mom of all the kids, the reluctant babysitter. This is the one where he has the, uh, the like Ahoy outfit, right? Is this that one or is that season three?
00:30:42
Speaker
Season three season season is long season minor spoiler. Love the outfit. It's freaking great It's one of his in dead by daylight too, which is just it's the perfect one. That's the one Yeah, I I can't recall too much about season three to comment on it so I
00:31:04
Speaker
you'd have to dredge up memory or season two for me to comment on it, but you'd have to dredge up memory for me to say too much there. Um, a lot of it is just will being like a, a weird possessed kid and then trying to figure out like what's going on. Um, and like how to help him. And then also of course, people are doing science things where they shouldn't be doing science things. So like there's still a facility that's operated, um,
00:31:33
Speaker
trying to remember who the doctor's names are. Was this big gate, the season that had the big gate or was that later? Yes. That was three. Oh, it was two. Okay. No, two had the big gate. Um, so like they're trying to close things after the end of season one, but like they're unable to. Um, also 11 is with Hopper at this point. He finds her and is like taking care of her, but also like keeping her secret. So the government agencies don't come after her. Mm-hmm.
00:32:03
Speaker
This is after the death of Bob because Bob dies in like season one, right? No, it's still two. Bob dies near the end of season two. This is the problem. It's like you have like the random. Yeah, just pieces of like this happened. It's like there's no way Bob was still alive in the season two, right? I was like, no.
00:32:20
Speaker
Sam survives. That's the other thing I was going to say. Sean Astin, by the way. This is all like a thinly guys Lord of the Rings episode. Yeah, I think they might be the same universe. That's that's the hot take. That'll be the conspiracy theory for the end. Yeah, I think this is this is the beginning of when
00:32:47
Speaker
I start to realize that this show sometimes spends too much time on certain characters and not enough time on other characters. And they don't know how to balance it. So like, I really like what they built with Steve Harrington and not taking to the actor's name, but not.
00:33:10
Speaker
Dustin. Dustin. Oh, yeah. Like they're dynamic. It's so cute and adorable and wholesome. Love it. But then like in the season, they also had 11 go off to visit other project kids.
00:33:26
Speaker
And then she's like, it's basically like a DBZ thing where it's like, there's this threat. How do we deal with this threat? I got to go explore and find myself and go into the hyperbolic time chamber. And then there's some jump the shark thing where she goes to find somebody to help her psychic powers. And then she comes back with like slick back hair and she's like, I will help. And like your dialogue so well written.
00:33:51
Speaker
It's unfortunately not. Pretty much the whole show. It's super bad. But yeah, I didn't feel like the whole season was that memorable. Yeah. Even just based on what you're saying, like I remember bits and pieces, but not.
00:34:10
Speaker
Yeah. Like while we're talking about 11 for a little bit, like there's some excuse to it and that the
Critique on Character Arcs
00:34:16
Speaker
in universe excuse is that she is like a not socialized child, right? Like this is the reason she kind of struggles to relate to people and things like that. But the problem is.
00:34:27
Speaker
They use that line like way too long, like far too long, past a point like kids are pretty adaptive. Um, and like, she's going to eventually start speaking with contractions and like, she's not going to be data her entire life. Eventually she's going to learn how to talk to people and yeah, she'll have trauma and you can use that as a pot device. That's free. That's a free space, but like.
00:34:56
Speaker
It can't just always be that, right? As a brief jump, in season four, when she said, no, you, I was like, dude, are you fucking kidding me? Yeah. It felt like I was arguing with a middle schooler and like, what is happening here?
00:35:17
Speaker
Mm-hmm. There's that there's actually I can't recall the season it's in but it's a really cool scene while she where she's hanging out with max and Like they just go off and like do makeup and like buy clothes and all of that So she has like her makeover thing three. Okay, I'm the audience is three. Yeah and Like this feels like the turning point for her character where it's like this is it she can relate with the humans and
00:35:46
Speaker
they just completely go back on it. But this is a common problem in shows that go a little bit longer is they like tend to revisit the same tropes and we'll see that I think a lot more in season four. They're just like that thing we resolved. We left like a little tiny hole in the door and we're just gonna blow the whole thing open again. So is it a
00:36:11
Speaker
The emperor was back by some means or something. Well, somehow the emperor returns. Yeah, somehow. You want to write that one in and your giant fucking yellow paragraph, that's low scrolling paragraph, you piece of shit. You get the story if you play Fortnite first, but. Yeah, and that's that's the issue I kind of have with the kids. The other thing is like.
00:36:36
Speaker
I kind of feel bad for the actors sometimes because they just don't do anything for like a given season. I don't know how much time you want to spend in like two and three. If there's anything you want to touch there, let's hit that before talking about stuff in four. Do you remember what happened in season three? Russians. That's about all I got. I mean, yeah. In almost every season, there's like some degree of Russia. But season three is the mall season.
00:37:05
Speaker
Um, so that's where Steven, um, does keep your name.
00:37:11
Speaker
Season with billy's actually in season two. He just gets possessed in season three. I gotcha. Yeah. Yeah. So he's the one of the four facing antagonists in season three. Yeah. And then there's the whole shadow monster that then just kills a whole bunch of people to be a meat mass and then just fuck around in the mall. But under the mall is where they have another gate that the Russians are working on.
00:37:39
Speaker
Right. Okay. And that's where you meet like, again, I forget his name, but the one Russian guy who's always drinking like a slushie and he loves American culture.
00:37:49
Speaker
Yeah, like he was like a nice fun character because you had like the the insanity of Murray, who's the conspiracy theorist and always like Alexia is always following what's going on with Russia. And then Alexi is like a pretty mild mannered scientist in comparison. He's just like, oh, this is nice. And he's just glad to be out of his like a super serious job. So he's just kind of enjoying things.
00:38:18
Speaker
Yeah, I think part of the, part of the issue I had with season three is like cold war stories. There's so many of them. I guarantee you Tom Clancy's done it better, right? Like you don't have to like show this conflict. Um, I get that it's, you know, appropriate for the time and this fictional universe when things are going down, but like.
00:38:47
Speaker
It's funny to say this now, right? Because the show's come out and now Russia is actually like an aggressor against Ukraine and all of this stuff is going on. But I almost think like they wouldn't have made it like very obvious US government versus like Russian government if that was all in the limelight then.
00:39:07
Speaker
I don't know. It doesn't add much to it for me. Like I don't need real life superpower conflicts being some of the major movers in this fantasy universe.
00:39:21
Speaker
No, they just needed a group of people and they chose what's been like a really common enemy. It's been like all nineties. We in the same way, like in action movies. Oh, who's the main antagonist? Russia or somebody over there in those countries, wherever or who's somebody who gestures with their hands a lot? Oh, fucking Italians. And like certain tropes are very much so true in media because it's
00:39:49
Speaker
Easy racism, I don't know. It's a shortcut. It's a whipping boy for sure though. You don't have to think about it too much. It's like, who do we hate? Zombies, Nazis, and Nazi zombies.
00:40:06
Speaker
It's not like absolutely terrible, but if they if they're in the show, they should have just been like a minor piece. They shouldn't have been like major players, major movers. Like by season four, they're straight up like experimenting on and containing the monsters and stuff like that. And I'm like, I don't I don't need that. All right. Tell me to make it the Illuminati. I don't care. Just make it the Illuminati. It's more interesting to me.
00:40:34
Speaker
Yeah, season three also had even it's been progressing since season one, the amount that put it in, but a lot of the interrelationship stuff between the main cast and like to a degree, I get it. Like it's that age middle school, high school, people are developing feelings for each other. I've since cut that out. Easy peasy. Um,
00:40:59
Speaker
I get it in universe. The number of jokes I thought of after that, I'm like, not on podcasts.
00:41:09
Speaker
In universe, it makes sense and it adds like a degree of drama and like, oh, I hope these these folks make it because they care about each other type thing. But they do for me, at least focus on a little bit too much because I personally don't care if any of these characters are dating or if they stick together or not.
00:41:31
Speaker
because they're kids. Now, if it was like an ongoing thing and like Game of Thrones and like you've seen these characters like live and fight and shit together like, oh, I understand there's more of a thing where, oh, I'm glad that Jon Snow got together with his aunt because of these reasons, you know? Right. Because you're into that. Yeah, I agree.
00:42:00
Speaker
I think I was just going to interject. There's a place for it and it's realistic, but my argument against it is from a theatrical perspective or a storytelling perspective. You don't want to tell people things. I'm going to keep using D&D as an example. Thanks, Stranger Things.
00:42:17
Speaker
If you walk into a room and the storyteller or dungeon master or whatever describes this ornate throne and it seems to be glistening and an unnatural light and all of this goes on and then it's like a chair. Your players are going to spend a lot of time figuring out that it's a chair.
00:42:38
Speaker
And the issue with like a show is if you spend all the time on these relationships, but it doesn't matter, like it's not really going anywhere, or you expect that you're going to trudge it back up later as like an unresolved thread. What are we doing? Make the show shorter, right? Like that's literally what you should do because you're introducing things that don't matter. Um, and I think it comes back to the, the stakes. Yeah.
00:43:06
Speaker
Like the only reason I'm going to tell you that I love you and I want to spend like the rest of my life with you on camera in like a, a bit of a wind down scene in between some of the action. Oh, is because you're planning to do something that was fucked up to me later. I think that's why. But it's like, that doesn't work by like season four. Right. So like there's the whole, there's this whole arc where it's like Nancy and Jonathan and Steve. Right. It's like, who's gonna, who's Nancy going to pay?
00:43:35
Speaker
and they resolve it, and then they open it back up in season four for like no reason. They also don't go anywhere with it, worth noting. They kind of just tease it, like between scenes and things like that.
00:43:51
Speaker
And it's left completely unresolved. And so there's a premium on like the very last, the very last minutes of your season and whatever you put there had better be dang important. Cause if not just put the credits, we've already had like the climax of the battle and all that stuff and the resolution.
00:44:12
Speaker
And they're still spending time being like, oh, I don't know, Nancy. Nancy might end up with Steve. Are things good with Jonathan? I mean, she says they're good. Yeah, I don't care. Yeah. And again, this goes back to what I was saying about the transition from season one to season two, where they're like, this is definitely how it is.
Season 4 Predictions
00:44:37
Speaker
Or is it? And then to reopen those things and say like, hey, here are the hooks to come watch the next season. Like, hey, guys, Vecna's dead. Oh, wait. Checks back of neck. He might not be dead. I'm like, OK, then why the fuck did we do all this?
00:44:52
Speaker
Um, and like, why are you open up relationship stuff? And I'll be honest. I think I said this to you before, like immediately after I, through the last episode, I watched maybe half of it. And then it was just mashing Jay. I'm like, uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
00:45:10
Speaker
Because I was so burnt on them not doing anything, which felt like for the entire season. Yeah. Like I like the Scooby-Doo adventure of Vecna. Interesting character. I kind of wish they would have seeded that earlier in an earlier season for like, Oh, this ties to, Oh, that was actually Vecna. Okay, cool.
00:45:29
Speaker
versus just it's a new character. Still cool overall. I like the reveal, but I felt like they had too many side adventures and side plots that you could have so easily cut it out. Like everything that happened with the adventure van ride didn't fucking matter.
00:45:50
Speaker
It's just, hey, how did Eleven get out of the facility? Oh, a car ride. From which characters? Oh, these characters. How are we going to get them there? We'll put them on the thing for no reason. Okay, sure. If it's not a literal day of sex machina, it's too convenient to be plausible that they show up as she's emerging from the facility, right?
00:46:13
Speaker
I get that it's meant to just be seen and enjoyed, and I think it's a good season for that, but like, you should also be able to think about it without it falling to pieces, right? Like, there is no existence of a higher power in Stranger Things that's confirmed to be like, all right, and line them up so they appear at the same spot here, right? Like, so too many coincidences.
00:46:39
Speaker
We're officially on season four. So I like season four, but thinking about it is unfortunate. The problem. I enjoyed watching season four for a bit and they're like, oh, hey, that's part one. I'm like, okay, when's part two? Oh, part two is out literally a week later. I'm like, okay, I guess I'll watch another seven episodes.
00:47:07
Speaker
They're like, hold on there, kid. Um, sorry, we meant there's a second part. We did not say how long it was. Okay. How long is it? Two episodes. Okay. So which is you did seven hours and two hours. Like, well, actually episodes. And I'm like, what? The breakup is so weird because I feel like it wasn't six episodes or seven.
00:47:30
Speaker
before the I think it was seven. OK, so it's like seven episodes and a cliffhanger kinda after they gave you like a big reveal. And then it's the climax episode and then it's the nothing fucking happens and we resolve all loose ends. But then we untangle the ball for no fucking reason episode. Would you say that that is accurate? I mean, it's kind of kind of fair. This is similar to when I watched like I'll know it, though, and then I waited till it was all out like we watched it all.
00:47:58
Speaker
pretty back to back because we waited till the season was done to watch it. So I didn't get that as much. It was more like, how are we going to carve out time to watch two and a half hours of this during the work week? But your impressions of what happens, I would agree with. Regardless of how it was recorded or how they dropped it, how they packaged and produced it, it's
00:48:28
Speaker
It was fun to watch. And then looking back on it, there's just so many things that I just think could have been removed from the story entirely. And the unfortunate thing is it's probably like half of it. And that's a lot. Yeah, we didn't talk about any of the Russia plot because we don't give a fuck about it. And it doesn't tie into anything outside of like at the end of the episode, at the end of the season, like Hopper's back. OK. Mm hmm.
00:48:57
Speaker
Yeah. And I think like there's, there's a potential, I know that they'll continue to use some of those characters, but the issue is that on the face of it, that's fine. Right. You're developing Murray, you're developing Hopper, uh, you're developing Joyce. Um, but the issue is I don't usually care what these characters are doing.
00:49:21
Speaker
And the other issue is like when it comes to the kids, they spend time with usually like two or three of them ish, maybe, maybe four, like for a season, but there's a lot more kids than that. And because like they focus on just a couple of these kids, the other kids are doing like nothing.
00:49:41
Speaker
And sometimes when they're spending time with the kids, it's for stuff I don't care about either. I'm more interested in the fantasy aspect than the high school aspect at this point. And no interest at all in what the parents are doing. It's really unfortunate because I want those people to continue to make money. And I think they're doing a decent, like a good job acting. But the writing isn't there to make their part interesting. I like everybody's acting like.
00:50:09
Speaker
A lot of acting comes down to whatever director let get through, but they do a good job of conveying their characters 100%. Even the people who are less on screen, even Mike's dad, Mike and Nancy's dad, who's just such a nothing character, he has two lines of season.
00:50:29
Speaker
You get you get who that guy is based on his character. I actually really like his character because he's the most grounded. Like you could tell the kids would hate this guy. Yeah, he's just he's a dad, dad. He's like, oh, he's that guy. But like there's one exchange. I remember this is how you know he's a good character where he's talking to Dustin. He's like eating breakfast at their house. He's like, oh, geez, take us for all we're worth. And Dustin's like, OK, sure. Just shovels food.
00:50:59
Speaker
such a good exchange. That's the stuff I love, right? Yeah, it's like, it's a nice thing to be like all of the acting is good. But a lot of the writing, to me seems
00:51:13
Speaker
Lacking because like you're not developing those characters. They just kind of exist to be there briefly is like So these are kids even the world. Oh, yeah, they have parents. Oh, yeah, they're in trouble Oh, they have to escape from the house and then that's it It's like such a very brief plot device where it's just then just don't give them the screen time. I guess right I mean, it's it's important to remember that like from a narrative perspective the parents are support characters
00:51:37
Speaker
Yeah, right. Like the kids are the main characters. The parents are there to alternate between being roadblocks for the kids. And sometimes the. Crap, we are kids and we're in over our heads and the parents will like pull us out of this. But they're they're basically plot devices for that. Like that's the function that they serve.
00:52:04
Speaker
when it comes down to like the main characters, unfortunately, and I do wish there was kind of more of a way around this, like, Eleven kind of does everything.
00:52:15
Speaker
Um, she's always, she's Superman in like the world of mortals. And so when aliens come from outer space, it's not the mortals who accomplished like the big win. You know, it's maybe it's the power of friendship that, you know, it gets us there at the end, but it pretty much is. Yeah. We've been really, really ragging on it. There's there is some relationship that I kind of liked.
00:52:45
Speaker
because they didn't just like make it super obvious, like where it was all going to go. And they didn't spend a crazy amount of time on it from my perspective. And that was like, um, Sam and I can definitely remember his name, uh, Lucas. Um, who's Sam?
00:53:04
Speaker
Uh, Max, sorry. My brain reversed it and then changed one letter. Yeah. Sam and Max. It was Sam and Max. It's tried and true relationship. Um, but, uh, I didn't hate that. I thought that was, that was fine. It was like, Oh yeah, they're kids. They like each other. They've gone through too much trauma to be able to just like be together. Um, I don't hate that. Like I could see that in a story.
00:53:33
Speaker
and not be opposed to it. Um, I disagree with the resurging problems with, uh, Nancy, Jonathan, and Steve. Get past that. In fact, those characters should be past just relationship troubles and their story arc at this point. Cause is that realistic for real life? I don't know, but it's boring to tread the same ground in the movie or in a show.
00:54:03
Speaker
I agree. And then figure out what to do with the kids, because there's too many of them. Hot take. Here's my hot take as we're approaching the last couple of minutes. They should have killed Max. For what specific reason? It would have been such a more impactful ending. Oh, I agree. Two things happened, right?
00:54:32
Speaker
Vecna dies. Max dies. Eleven Jesus-ing Max back is like the stupidest nonsense they could have done at the end here. Like they're investing way too much power in this one character.
00:54:51
Speaker
Yeah. And that's the other thing, like, again, going back to stakes, I understand that you want to have them higher for a certain drama or like, it's the suspense of not knowing how bad it's going to get. Right. But when you're like, Oh, it's got real bad, right? Okay. I was, I was prepared for this based on things you showed me earlier. I guess this is the worst. I'm assuming the worst. And then you pull back going, just kidding. And it's like,
00:55:19
Speaker
Where's that relationship of trust between what you show me in the show versus what you actually then do? Yeah, that's where I get like it feels like it's Cheap as far as it's just for the thrill and then not for any of the writing and I'm not like a jump scare or like thriller person So for me, I'm like, oh is the story good? Well, I like the characters what's happening with the action and the overall the overarching plot
00:55:49
Speaker
It just would have been, I feel like the reason she didn't die isn't because of any in-universe reason. It's for the fact that all these kids are in the show together. Like. So you don't think they'll kill any of the main kids. Exactly. Because like then that, unless the person wants to stop working on the show, basically.
00:56:09
Speaker
true and it's unfortunate but like that does take me out of the uh fiction if i think that that's the driving reason for a max side like she was in the process of being sacrificed she even had the preparation steps of like writing the letters closing a lot of these loops they like
00:56:30
Speaker
insert the knife, but don't quite twist it yet by having her like restart her relationship with Lucas. And it's like they had everything primed for tragedy. Mm hmm. And then they're like, oh, you know what, we actually can't if we kill her, she's not going to be in the next season. Dang. OK, well, have 11 fix it. Whatever. I'm going out to coffee. Right. Like that's what it felt like. Yeah.
00:57:00
Speaker
And that's, that feels sloppy every time. And that's the difference with the one little change that she did die. Now all of the kids are in danger again. Anytime that you're out there on screen and they're in danger, you're not really sure if they're going to make it. Cause they already killed one of them. This is also like, there's kind of this like resiliency that the kids have at this point where they kind of seem immortal.
00:57:27
Speaker
because I think, I mean, they got injured, I guess, but like, it's probably the way they're interacting with the CGI, but when they're like fighting the bats and stuff like that, I'm like, I don't think they're really in trouble. All right. Like not until they were given the cue, this is the point where, um,
00:57:47
Speaker
What was the dungeon master's name? Eddie. Eddie. Yeah. This is the point where Eddie's dying. All right. Die on the ground, Eddie. Go. It's like until that point, they're just kind of swinging around. But did you care that Eddie died? I'm glad he died. It was the problem. Like the story is better for him dying is the way I put it. It would have been way worse if they kept him around because it's just there's already too many characters in the cast.
00:58:17
Speaker
Yeah. I thought his character was okay. Everyone who I talked to and like the internet is like, he's the best. And for me, I'm also just like, I don't get happy from many things. So this is just also in that category of like, it just doesn't do anything for me. I like this character enough, but just not like.
00:58:39
Speaker
I didn't care that he died. I was more like, oh, I guess they got licensing from Metallica. I guess things have changed since Guitar Hero days. That was good. I like that scene. It was a cool 70s, 80s throwback scene. But I'm still on the max thing. You brought up Eddie. Every reason that Eddie had a good out, those were great off-ramps for Max. Eddie made the decision. He's like, I'm going to buy more time.
00:59:07
Speaker
When he made that decision, it's implausible for him to survive. When Dustin goes back to him, it's because Dustin is a badass and he's like, I will break my leg trying to save you. Even if it doesn't make any sense, Dustin's just an amazing friend.
00:59:24
Speaker
Dustin MVP, um, for the match, but like Eddie basically narratively signed his fate and he said he's good with it by going back and max does the same thing. She's like, I'll be the sacrifice. I'm going to do all this. And then they're like, yeah, pull her up. Yeah.
00:59:46
Speaker
Okay. Now I'm not, now I'm done with Max. So yeah, Eddie was okay. Some brief predictions for like season five. Um, they're going to kill off Steve a hundred percent. Yeah.
01:00:02
Speaker
Cause as they were stealing the, the Winnebago, he's talking to Nancy about like his future life plans. And she's like, okay. And I'm like, why would you, this was alluding to earlier in the episode. Like, why would you fucking bring that up out of nowhere unless you're going to die? Cause this is already passed. I think it was passed when he got injured, right? Yeah. Cause he,
01:00:31
Speaker
I can't recall the exact timing, but yeah. But yeah, I feel like they'll at least kill off Steve. They'll probably kill us somebody else. Um, they can't kill Hopper now cause they've already almost killed him once. If they kill him at this point, it's going to make season four even worse. So you're like, why don't we spend so much time just to do this? So I hope they don't, I hope Steve survives. I hope Jonathan dies.
01:00:56
Speaker
Cause he's not a character. So there was like one interesting thing that Jonathan did in the entire season. And it was like the conversation with, go ahead. Is it when he talks to his brother? Yeah. Yeah. That's literally the only thing. Cause like you see Will struggling throughout the entirety of season four and you're like, Oh, he loves Mike. And like at no point is anyone like.
01:01:23
Speaker
Oh, does he love Mike? It's fucking obvious. And you see that he's tortured by it, and his brother's like, oh, I'm the person who can read human emotions. Hey, if you ever need to talk to me, I'm there. I'll try not to be pot high so much. But yeah, he doesn't do anything else this season, or arguably season three doesn't do as much either. He's supporting in the same way. He's not one of the main kids. Yeah.
01:01:49
Speaker
I feel that Nancy does more than Jonathan on a given season. She's one of the active participants. Um, but I was going to say for that particular scene I read online, I don't know if it's a hundred percent true. I don't care. This is TMZ. Uh, basically that scene with Will and Jonathan was suggested by the actors. Exactly.
01:02:23
Speaker
I recently went to a play, no, a musical. I was talking to one of the people who's in it because the reason I went to see it was I knew somebody in it. And he was saying, with a lot of theatrical performances, a lot of times you will have people who feel like they don't get as much screen time or lines looking for excuses to, you know, I mean, they're a part of a big production, same as everybody else. So they're spending the same amount of time there, whether or not they're actively doing stuff, but they would like to be a part of it and they like to contribute.
01:02:53
Speaker
So they'll come up with things like, hey, maybe I could, like, say line here or something. But this instance that you're describing sounds more like, hey, maybe these two characters who, like, are brothers should fucking interact. And it's like, oh, that would maybe make sense. And the writers are like, well, yeah, that's a good idea.
01:03:11
Speaker
Could you imagine that season without that? Because what that did is it was the payoff. This is the Chekhov's gun for Jonathan looking back through the rearview mirror and seeing his brother basically in shambles. It's like all of these things build up to the point where he's like, I have to confront this. I have to help him out.
01:03:36
Speaker
Interesting social times for this. I don't think he's going to have a very easy life. I care about him. I love him. I imagine without the right suggestions, sorry, without the actors suggestions for that, you know, that conversational piece of intimacy where Jonathan's just from the writers are like, bro, you gay.
01:03:54
Speaker
Yeah, right. That's gay, bro. Like, he just says it or something like that. That's how the reveal comes out. He's just like, no, no, what are you talking about? He's like, well, are you actually gay? What I would like to see if they keep Robin alive, which I'm fine with the killer of at any point because I find her so annoying. But because Robin is gay,
01:04:19
Speaker
if that wasn't obvious in the show. And Will is gay. It seems like it. That they actually like, they find some common interaction because those two characters haven't really overlapped. Oh yeah. I disagree on Robin. I kind of like Robin, but I don't think she contributes much to the story either.
01:04:37
Speaker
But I like when they have characters from like, let's say you have a breakup of let's say there's nine kids and you have three here, three here and three here. I like when they mix up the dynamic to be like, oh, how would it be if these two people hung out? So like in this season, they had Robin and Nancy who were polar opposites. But like it was a nice interaction to have them play off each other because it was a new dynamic. So like I'm in support of that.
01:05:05
Speaker
I like that. Yeah, I agree on that point. The Robin and Nancy moments are pretty good because like I just loved how Nancy is just like Robin literally always says what she's thinking. Like regardless of whether it's a good time or a bad time, like nervousness just turns reason off for her. And Nancy's just like.
01:05:26
Speaker
She eventually adapts to just the straight bluntness. Oh, that's a poor choice of words. Straight bluntness. Sorry, that's a different character this season.
01:05:35
Speaker
Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, also I'd be fine if that character wasn't in the show, but great acting props to the actor. Many, many future. It was a nice little comedic thing, but yeah, I also don't need his character to be in future seasons. Like it seemed like a, we need a car delivery driver. They just, they just pieced it back backwards. It's just like, it feels like.
01:06:01
Speaker
The writers are at odds, right? Because if a character is used, they want that character to be used many times in the season. But I think Argyle got more screen time than some of the kids. And he's mostly just there as a tag-along, like you said.
01:06:21
Speaker
He's a plot device. He's like, Oh yeah, I know where salt is. Um, yeah, but he's primarily comic relief is his role. Exactly. Like that's his character.
Conclusion and Contact Details
01:06:30
Speaker
Um, and the issue, the issue really is, and I think this is the problem the writers are really running, running into is they need to have so many threads going so that the story doesn't just reach its climax. So like episode three, they're like, all right, if we spend all of our time in the upside down or exploring 11's backstory.
01:06:49
Speaker
They're going to know who Vecna is at like season three. So Russia, Russia arc, and here's the West coast arc and the different kids are doing different things and all of this. The issue is it, it just dilutes the pool of what's going on. And you have like a contract basically that at least a high percentage of what happens on screen should mean something.
01:07:17
Speaker
And instead it feels like it's around Robin, not again, not that character, but like, they're just like, Oh no, it's these people's turn. Well, these people's turn this, these people's turn because next season, you know, these characters won't matter as much. We'll go back to the kids or something. Like, no, I don't want to see that. Do it like Harry Potter.
01:07:37
Speaker
Harry Potter, Ron, Hermione. I don't even, I've never read those books, but maybe one other character. Um, but you don't need like a main cast of 12 people. No, definitely not. So I would also like, as like a final thing, so not trailing on, I like when they do stuff with Erica, cause I like a sassy character and Erica is the epitome of that.
01:08:04
Speaker
Erica is perfect for the way I wish they treated support characters. Argyle, great character. Have him in a couple of scenes. Erica, she doesn't show up that often. She's in a couple of scenes. She takes part in like the climax with the like assault on Vecna and stuff like that. But she doesn't like hog the screen. She's not slowing down the action. She's there for the high points.
01:08:30
Speaker
like to actually contribute to it instead of just to slow everything down. So they're good with that. Some of their eccentric characters or just really the personality characters are really good. They just need to do better about how they allocate screen time for some of the other characters.
01:08:57
Speaker
We'll see how they do on season five. They're probably in a side of like that was shit or season. Because season five, this one's supposed to be the last one, right? I don't know.
01:09:10
Speaker
I think that's the case. I believe I read somewhere that season five is supposed to be the finale finale. I'd be fine if it was because if I have to see another like end of season where they like be like, Hey, there's this big fucking McDonald's arches looming over Hawkins. I'm like, bro, I get it.
01:09:28
Speaker
Also, yeah, I realize we're overtime, but, you know, there's there's there's other stuff like I don't know how they still cover this up. Right. Like the earth was rent in twain as like these huge somebody else also brief aside to a brief aside. Bully guy, the Jason Jason. I love his character. He's a single serving character. He's meant to be hated. He pulls it off so well.
01:09:55
Speaker
He also gets freaking like vaporized in half. And that CGI, when like the rift goes across the ground during the sacrifice, it tears him in half. It's violent enough that it's actually only there for like a few frames. But yeah, he screams as he's like ripped in half because this magical whatever doesn't care that it's asphalt or house or whatever. He's just happens to be there. So it splits him.
01:10:23
Speaker
I think this is when I was just checked out of the final episode. It's like, yep. Yeah. But his character is really good because it's it's all justifiable. Like you can see things from his perspective of like, these are things that happen to him. This is how we interpreted them. This is what he did. These are the actions he took afterwards. Baseline information. Yeah, that seems plausible.
01:10:49
Speaker
The show has like focus as a resource and they miss misdistribute it. That's basically what I've been saying for the last hour. But like in a different version of the show, I think he would have been a kind of interesting character to actually reconcile with, to actually receive the revelation. Um, and this isn't that version of the show and I think that's fine. I'm glad that they didn't.
01:11:15
Speaker
because the show is better as it exists right now with him just dying in like three frames. But. But yeah, like you said, everything he did was justified. So coming to the end of it and then having him, you know. Come to grips with the reality of the situation, I think could have been cool, but not if you have told other characters. No. But yeah, I don't know how they hide this is what I was trying to say, like.
01:11:43
Speaker
It was glowing like, oh yeah, it's an earthquake. Is there an active volcano wonder Hawkins? Cause there was red lights coming out of this. And then the kids actually see the, um, or I guess they see everything in flame. They don't actually see the shadow monster again at the end, but I'm not sure what they're going to do with that. I guess it's probably still going to be Vecna versus 11 for control of the shadow monster.
01:12:15
Speaker
I don't know. I'll watch it to see where it goes at this point. That's where I'm at. Yeah. I invested enough to keep following up, but re-up Netflix for it. I guess. Yeah. But it's like, you can easily watch that in a month when they dropped the whole thing in a day. And then I'll catch up on Westworld season four and be like,
01:12:39
Speaker
man, change of things actually pretty good. Yeah. Um, we've been way more critical on it than not, but overall I do still enjoy the show. It's, it's worth resubscribing to Netflix for, for like a brief period of time. Um, it's fun to watch.
01:12:59
Speaker
Yeah. And in general, I don't spend time shitting on things that I don't have like an invested opinion on. Right. You can have one movie and then it was bad. I'm not going to go around telling everybody how bad the movie was. I'll be like, I didn't enjoy it. It wasn't for me. It's not worth.
01:13:18
Speaker
raving about. Whereas like this, I've watched four seasons. I've liked parts. I've disliked parts. I'm in it for better, for worse. So I will be more critical of it because I care. Yeah, exactly. As long as the ending is better than the Game of Thrones ending, we're okay. And who has a better of an episode than Will? You know?
01:13:50
Speaker
Is that it? They're also going to give Will psychic powers, just saying. Probably. If you guys have opinions on who should get psychic powers in our show, that's a really bad prompt. Send in whatever you want. So it's two of your phones to vote for me. There's no send or anything.
01:14:13
Speaker
Soapstone podcast at gmail.com is the email address. That stands for electronic mail. Facebook.com is the social media site for now, ominous at, I don't know, that's basically it. That's the show. And as always, we'll see you in the next one. Have a good time.
01:15:24
Speaker
you