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26. Building a Values-Based Dance Career with Courtney Nitting
141 Plays8 days ago
Courtney Nitting is a professional dancer, currently dancing as a second soloist with Boston Ballet. She previously danced with Kansas City Ballet and Pennsylvania Ballet’s second company after spending a year freelancing in NYC.
Courtney has such a passion and reverence for the art of ballet that just oozes out of her. We dove deep into her training at SAB and all of her career shifts along the way. We get into one of my favorite topics - figuring out what’s right for you in your dance career and finding the courage to make choices that align with your values. Courtney’s story is both inspiring and informative to all dancers - you’ll walk away with so much helpful advice on striking a balance and finding your place in the dance world!
Key Moments:
- Early dance training [1:30]
- Courtney’s experience leaving home at 13 to train at SAB [5:08]
- How Courtney pivoted into freelance after not receiving a contract upon graduation [17:12]
- Her first contract with Pennsylvania Ballet [26:59]
- Moving to the midwest to dance with Kansas City Ballet [33:29]
- The difference between being in an unranked vs ranked company [39:49]
- What prompted Courtney’s move to Boston Ballet [42:48]
- Courtney’s passions outside of dance [49:14]
- Her biggest piece of advice for dancers pursuing a career [51:46]
Connect with Courtney:
INSTAGRAM: https://instagram.com/nittingwithoutthek
Links and Resources:
Get your copy of The Intentional Career Handbook
Get your copy of The Ultimate Audition Guide
Let’s connect!
My WEBSITE: thebrainyballerina.com
INSTAGRAM: instagram.com/thebrainyballerina
1-1 CAREER MENTORING: book your complimentary career call
Questions/comments? Email me at [email protected]
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Transcript
Caitlin's Lesson on Self-Worth
00:00:00
Speaker
I worked so hard to be the dancer that I wasn't. It just turned out that I just wasn't the right fit for his company. That was a huge lesson that I learned and I'm super grateful for it because it made me realize that just because one company doesn't want you doesn't mean that you're not worthy of another company or that you're not worthy of being a good dancer. That really changed the confidence in who I am as a dancer and as a person to say,
00:00:27
Speaker
The worth and the value that I have for myself doesn't change just because of someone else's opinion.
Introduction of Caitlin as Brainy Ballerina
00:00:34
Speaker
I'm Caitlin, a former professional ballerina turned dance educator and career mentor. And this is the Brainy Ballerina podcast. I am here for the aspiring professional ballerina who wants to learn what it really takes to build a smart and sustainable career in the dance industry. I'm peeling back the curtain of the professional dance world with open and honest conversations about the realities of becoming a professional dancer. Come along to gain the knowledge and inspiration you need to succeed in a dance career on your terms.
Courtney's Early Love for Ballet
00:01:09
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Brainy Valorina podcast. I'm your host, Caitlin Sloan, and I am joined today by Courtney Knitting. Courtney is a professional dancer. Currently, DSC has a second soloist with Boston, LA.
00:01:20
Speaker
She previously danced with Kansas City Ballet and Pennsylvania Ballet Second Company after spending a year freelancing in New York City. Courtney, I'm so excited to have you on today. And I want to start by hearing why did you take your very first dance class? Oh my gosh. Well, I'm so happy to be here, Caitlin. Thank you so much for having me. This story is always so funny to me because I feel like a lot of people have this adorable, oh, I wanted a pink tutu. and I don't know. I wanted to go move and things. And for me, the first time I actually took a ballet class, I didn't want to go in. My mom actually had to bring me back six months later because I was too afraid to leave her to take my first class. So I went in.
00:02:07
Speaker
And I was like, I don't like this at all. And I left and then my mom brought me six months later after asking me, do you want to try again? And I said, yes. And then that time I fully just went into the class and loved it. And I haven't stopped dancing since. And that was when I was three turning four.
Transition to Serious Ballet Training
00:02:22
Speaker
And what was your training like growing up? At that point, my first little baby year of dance as a little baby toddler, I was in just a little local school where we did a little bit of tap. And I think I had one ballet class a week.
00:02:35
Speaker
And at the end of that year, I told my mom at four years old, which I still think is crazy to this day. And I say, I think ballet chose me instead of I chose it. For some reason I knew at four years old that this is what I wanted to do because I told her I wanted to go to a real ballet school. Seriously. My mom put me in at a professional ballet school, the New Jersey school of ballet, where I trained for nine years. I was kind of always the youngest in my class by at least a year or two years. It was about when I started to turn seven or eight years old, the teachers started telling my mom and and my dad that, hey, Courtney's really got something special. You know, we're going to really keep an eye on her if she really wants to do this. So I hit 12.
00:03:18
Speaker
And they advised me to try to go audition for a couple of summer courses for bigger schools. So I did that. And the first year I got into APT New York, American Valley Theater in New York City. So I went there. It was amazing. Had a wonderful opportunity. And that was kind of my goal from then on was to be a very classical ballerina who was going to be in New York City. And the following year I auditioned again for American Ballet Theater, but I also auditioned for the School of American Ballet, which is affiliated with New York City Ballet. And I got in there, which I hadn't gotten into the first year that I auditioned. And so I said, well, I have to try here because what if I don't get in again? This might be a really good opportunity that I may not get again. So I went for the summer course. And the reason I tell the stories and in this kind of order is because this is what really changed the trajectory of my training two and a half weeks into the program.
00:04:14
Speaker
without signing any of those papers. Oh, I want to be evaluated to be a winter term kid. My mom was like, no, you are 13. You're not going to go to New York City by yourself. Absolutely not. But they asked me to stay for the winter term anyways. Again, it was like, I loved the program being at the summer course so much. And I felt like the training, the Balanchine style was something that I hadn't been exposed to before, was now something that kind of hit me in a different way. And I said, Oh my gosh, this is me. This is,
00:04:44
Speaker
This is what Valley is for me. So then at 13, I decided to transfer my training. And I was at the School of American Valley for seven years after that until I graduated in 2016. So I definitely had a lot of training and a lot of different styles in my background. But it really made some twists and turns that I didn't expect. But I'm so grateful for. And I wouldn't be where I am today if it wasn't for all.
00:05:07
Speaker
the different teachers and exposures that I've had throughout my training.
Training in NYC and Family Sacrifices
00:05:10
Speaker
How was that leaving home at 13? Did your parents come with you or were you just on your own? Yeah, so luckily I live in New Jersey. So it's not too far from New York City, but how far north I am from Manhattan was way too far for me to commute every day. So the first big switch was where am I going to live? And actually at 13, I was too young to live in the dormitories.
00:05:31
Speaker
So luckily my grandparents actually took me in as another kid at like 65. They were like, okay, we're going to have a teenager now again. So I would live with them from Monday through Saturday, because we had classes six days a week. And then my parents would come and pick me up Saturday. I would go home for that day. And then they would bring me back Sunday night, sometimes if I was lucky till Monday morning. And I did that for all seven years. I think the the biggest switch too was that was also the year that I ended up changing to online schooling, which was also really different because I had always gone to public school. So I went from you know being in a classroom setting and having classmates and group projects and all this stuff to doing school on the computer.
00:06:17
Speaker
all the time. So that was definitely a different change that had to happen, but I didn't picture that at all until it was happening. So how did you feel about that? Were you homesick? Were you just like so excited to be there? I mean, I was so excited to be at the School of American Ballet. I didn't even really understand the caliber of it until I was in it, which was unbelievable. I mean, we are very lucky at SAB, the accessibility that the students have to Whether it be physical therapy, nutritionist, just going to see the ballet every single night. We're going to watch New York City Ballet every day. I mean, I have a box that's this big. Cause I saved every ticket and every program I ever went. And my grandpa would go with me, you know, three times a week. And then when my mom would come with me, we would go again and see multiple ballets and multiple cast and
00:07:06
Speaker
The exposure and the knowledge that I gained from that was incredible. I think I was a little too stressed out as a kid sometimes because i I wanted it so bad that, you know, to be a professional dancer that I didn't get to necessarily always enjoy all of it because I was just in the world itself, which is my, I think my only regret that I would say I would tell my younger self is, hey, just just enjoy it. Take a step back, you know, because it's gonna be gone before you know it. But I was actually so excited to change to online school. A lot of people, I think, sometimes have a hard time with that, going from a really social environment to kind of being secluded by he yourself. But I was really bullied a lot in school, more so because I was a dancer as well. I was diligent about doing my homework, sometimes during lunch, so that way I had more time to go to class or I would go to school with my hair in a bun, so that way I didn't have to do it in the car. And it kind of just led to some unpleasant experiences as a young kid.
00:08:04
Speaker
So when I did online school and I said, well, like I could just focus on my studies and focus on ballet, I was like, this is the greatest thing ever. The hardest part is what you said was homesick. I hated sleepovers as a kid, couldn't do it. I'm such a family girl. Those first couple months was just absolutely brutal, having to leave my family. And I think the only thing that made it easier was actually the fact that I was with my grandparents because they were still family.
00:08:32
Speaker
But I also say on the flip side, it made it harder because they're family, but not my, you know, my mom, my dad, my sister, my brother, my close, close family. And that was hard. I mean, there were so many nights where I was getting in the car with them and I would just cry the entire night. And my Nan was amazing. She would sleep in bed with me until I fell asleep. Cause I would just cry myself to sleep cause I missed home so much, but it was a sacrifice and a time that I look back on and I'm so grateful for the lessons that it taught me and the maturity that I had to grow into at such a young age in order to have this wonderful career that we professional ballerinas get to have. So it was so hard.
Post-SAB Freelancing Challenges
00:09:13
Speaker
And I think it did a lot of damage on the family too, if I'm being honest, you know, like all of a sudden my mom went from being a mom of three to a mom of two because her other kid isn't home at 13 years old. And that's a big difference for her, a big difference for my sister and my brother who,
00:09:30
Speaker
My sister became the older sister because I wasn't around and it put a bearing on the family dynamic too. So it's a lot of complexities. I think when it comes to the sacrifices that the families make for anyone who's trying to pursue a high performance athletic career, whether it be in sports or dance or acting or modeling or things like that, it can be a lot, but I still wouldn't trade it for the world. You know?
00:09:54
Speaker
Yeah. What were the biggest lessons you learned at SAB? Is there anything you remember to this day that a teacher said or anything that was really pivotal? I think the thing I remember the most from the student to professional transition of training at a big school like SAB to being a professional dancer in a variety of companies was one of my teachers, her name being Katrina Killian, amazing, phenomenal teacher. She kind of was one of the ones when I first came to SAB that gave me the foundation of the Valentin technique and taught me all of the little tiny details that sometimes I think get lost because you just don't have the time to teach it. And she really was on me in classes or afterwards. I had questions taking notebooks. That was also the big thing too that I really think helped me was I'm a big note taker and
00:10:46
Speaker
I'm so grateful that I did that as a student because it has helped me in the professional world to just write everything down because at some point you can only remember so much. It's nice to have that knowledge written down somewhere when it happened. So you can actually remember what that teacher said to you. So that's something that I still do to this day. If I get coaching on certain things, I always write things down. I always have a notebook. But the one thing that she told me, which didn't really resonate when I was younger, but does now was At some point you have to become your own teacher in a company. They don't have time to.
00:11:20
Speaker
hold your hand and walk you to the grocery store. You have to be able to do it by yourself sometimes. And I'm not saying that there's not going to be people along the way who will help you, but majority of the work comes from you. She always said, just have that little teacher, imaginary teacher sitting on your shoulder, giving you those corrections or coaching elements or whatever you need to keep you motivated and inspired and positive. And that's always stuck with me that just thinking, I always have that little teacher on my shoulder to help me get to whatever I'm trying to succeed because it's so true. We're so busy and we're always doing so much that sometimes, you know, you just don't have the time to be so hands-on and so personable, especially the way that they were at the School of American Valley. I mean, for an hour and a half class, I would write probably 20 full length pages of notes of corrections that were between me and maybe three other students. Like it was very hands-on and very particular. I love that same quality over quantity.
00:12:18
Speaker
that's what I got from that school and that's one of the big things that really taught me and that little saying of just keeping that teacher on your shoulder has helped me grow as a dancer through my professional career by allowing myself to I'm going to say be the coach, but be the driver of what I'm trying to achieve. Yeah, I totally agree. That was a big shock to me. And the transition from student professional was going to company class and being like, Oh, this is now my warmup. Right. Whereas before that was the main event. Totally agree with that. And I love that you're a note taker because I'm a huge note taker too. I have the same Even as a professional, like you said, notes like that that were really pivotal, but also just like this period is on five because then the next day I'd go into rehearsal and like look at my note and be like, Oh my gosh, yes. There's so many notes you get in a day and you remember it as you're doing it. And you're like, Oh, I forgot that that was a that change or whatever. And so just having that note to like refresh your memory is so huge. I mean, especially when we're talking about ballets that have a lot of history too, you know, I was lucky at the school of American ballet, the balancing technique has been passed on.
00:13:20
Speaker
through word of mouth or if we're lucky, different videos that have been repurposed or notebooks. At some point, and I hate to say this, but a lot of the original people who had Mr. Balanchine have since passed. And so for the people that I did have that got to work with him personally,
00:13:39
Speaker
I mean, that to me is word for word. It's as close as you're going to get. And if that dissipates the whole technique, the whole aspect of that part of ballet leaves, like the same does, you know, the classical works, Viadare and Swan Lake, the original versions, the original choreography, Pettipaw, all those things, you know, it's been passed on through generation to generation and that's why it stays. And so that's definitely a huge passion of mine is making sure that what I am dancing, if it is something that was created before my time,
00:14:07
Speaker
that I'm doing it justice in the way that it was performed and the way that the choreographer wanted it to be performed, even if they're no longer here to tell us the pirouettes on five. That element of becoming your own kind of stager and teacher for yourself is huge in the professional world. Yeah, taking responsibility for yourself and not waiting for someone to come do it for you. Yeah, I think that's also what you learn in school too, at least at the School of American Ballet. I mean, when I was younger, we would have classes at night.
00:14:36
Speaker
I would get up still at seven 30, eight o'clock in the morning, do schoolwork all day long, have an hour lunch break or half an hour lunch break, whatever. And then take the bus commute in with my grandfather to then take my ballet classes, come home, eat dinner, or do school at 14 years old. It's like having a full time job. Then when I got older and it was, okay, we're still getting up early in the morning to go take class in the morning. Maybe I have a break, do some homework, take another class, stay.
00:15:02
Speaker
Go to Pilates, do whatever I need physical therapy to, to help my body, my physical aspects of dance, and then hopefully get all my homework done. So that way I could go to the ballet that night and see the New York city ballet perform right across the street at Lincoln center. So I could build that knowledge too. But then the ballet is over at 30, 11 o'clock, take the bus home, go to bed and repeat, you know? So all of those things, like you're saying, responsibility, the discipline you learn at such a young age that applies to I personally think not just dance, but really anything in life. Having a routine down and that maturity level, you just kind of have to grow into it much faster than a lot of other people because that's the way our our form is. If you don't give that kind of time and effort, it'll be a lot harder to make this profession become a reality. For sure.
00:15:55
Speaker
There is so much dancers need to learn as they pursue a professional dance career. It can be completely overwhelming. Where do you even start? With your intention. To me, this is the first step in defining success on your terms. Once you have an intention for your career based on your core values, you can begin to hone in on a strategy to make your goals a reality. But without it, you will always feel out of alignment, out of control, and ultimately unfulfilled in your career.
00:16:26
Speaker
So how do you figure out what success means to you? with the Brainy Ballerina Intentional Career Handbook. This is not just your ordinary book. The Intentional Career Handbook walks you through it everything you need to think about as you embark on your dance career. With over 50 guided question prompts, you will dive deep into determining what really matters to you in a dance career based on your individual core values. By the end of this handbook, you will not only be crystal clear on your goals, but in the mindset you need to make it happen.
00:16:58
Speaker
Tap the link in the show notes to download your copy today and start pursuing your dance career with intention. So you graduated from SAB and you didn't get a contract that you graduated, right? That's right. What was that like? How did you deal with that? That was probably still to this day, the hardest year of my career and not even year. It was like the hardest couple of weeks after I had graduated because all of my classmates had contracts. And the thing was, I originally did have a couple of things in the works. Actually, I had been offered a contract, an apprentice contract with Semperoper Valley in Dresden, Germany. And I turned that down for a variety of reasons. One being, like I said, I'm a family girl and I didn't want to move to Europe. And two, I still really had my hopes and dreams on getting into the New York City Valley, if I'm being honest. and
00:17:53
Speaker
The pathway of how I was going through the school seemed like there was still hope. So I kept that hope for myself and kept working and kept growing. And I was very lucky that I had a lead role in my workshop performance, which is where at the time, former artistic director Peter Martins was watching. And he seemed to really be pleased with my performance. I have a bunch of the teachers had voiced to me that I was maybe going to get in. And when I didn't,
00:18:22
Speaker
And nothing else was on the table then at the time, I was just, what am I going to do? My family's going to back me up, but I don't have a school to go to now. I don't have a job to go to. So what does this mean? And luckily being in the big apple, I was like, well, we're going to make this happen as best I can. And I told my parents, I will do other things to supplement for point twos and, you know, whatever I could afford on my own. But I said,
00:18:52
Speaker
I'm going to work so hard on my training to make sure that when the auditions come around the next year, no company is going to turn me down. And that that was really where my mental was. And I became a ballet obsessed, crazy person, which I do not recommend because I think it was too much.
00:19:11
Speaker
If I'm being honest, but I also think it was the drive and the hunger that I needed in order to make my dreams come true with the situation, with the cards that I had been handed. So that's when I freelance for a year. So I still stayed at my grandparents. Luckily I didn't have to pay rent or anything like that, which was amazing. I did work at a restaurant behind the scenes to clean utensils and things, get some extra cash to pay for point twos. I substitute teacher at steps on Broadway at their Academy. I also worked the front desk there.
00:19:39
Speaker
I got a lot of my gigs because a lot of dancers that were regulars at the classes that I was taking at Step saw me, this young 19 year old kid who obviously had hunger and the potential to be a dancer. And why wasn't I in a company? That was always the question I got. Oh, where do you dance? Oh, I don't, I don't have a contract. What? You don't have a contract. And people were nice and people helped me. And there were gigs that I auditioned for that I didn't get that people recommended, but there were quite a few others that I did audition for through other people recommending them to me. That's what got it kick-started. The first one being Nutcracker, where I was like, I don't even know where to begin because I've never done this before. I've only done the company audition, the cow calls before video auditions were a thing. I was just, I went, oh my God, I don't even know to how many auditions in person. it was
00:20:31
Speaker
sometimes multiple a day where, okay, I would get cut from here and I would take the subway to Manhattan Youth Ballet and do another audition and then go to the city center and do a Broadway audition. And I was doing everything and anything possible. Something I think that a lot of people don't know about me is I actually auditioned for So You Think You Can Dance. That was one of the things that I said, well, if I can't be a professional dancer, we're going to dance somehow, somewhere. Maybe it's going to be on TV. And I actually made it through quite a few of the rounds. But I always think that's kind of interesting that, you know, yeah vision for them. So then I booked a nutcracker gig on my computer. I sent like 200 emails to any nutcracker application I could find. And I got hired not only to dance snow in the quarter Valley, but I got hired to dance their do drop. And that was huge because it happened to be a company where they hired New York city Valley to be sugarplum and Cavalier. So I was dancing alongside.
00:21:25
Speaker
these amazing dancers you know who were doing this side gig when they were off. from New York City Ballet here at this smaller school. And I said, no, I am good. I am worthy. I deserve to be a professional dancer. I am going to make this happen. And that was a really big moment of validating that, OK, even though it didn't happen right now, I'm going to make sure it does happen. And that was with the Gillespie Ballet, who to this day still has my heart. And I called the director, my fairy godfather, because he's always been there for me and helped mentor me. And when he first hired me after the first performance, he said, you know,
00:21:59
Speaker
I took a big risk on you because you're so young, you have zero experience and I'm giving you this big part. But he said after the first day of rehearsal with your big smile and spirit and how hard you worked, I knew you were going to be the perfect fit for this. And I'm so happy that I took the chance on you and forever he's been such a beautiful person in my life. So I'm very grateful for Iglesia Valley in that sense. I love that.
00:22:23
Speaker
While you were freelancing, did you ever think, Oh, I kind of like this. I want to keep doing this. Or were you always like, I want to have a full time company contract? I think because I came from the School of American Ballet, my mentality was I need to have a contract.
00:22:37
Speaker
I don't think I ever gave myself the option to be a freelancer because my dream was always the New York City Valley to have a contract with a company. And so I think even if it was just get a contract for a year, I needed to get that checked off in order for me to give myself the freedom to make that choice. Because now I look back and I say, actually my freelance year is some of my favorite memories as a dancer, because it's much less competitive because everybody already knows what they're dancing because you're already casted. You're dancing because you need money but also because you love it because it's too hard to be a freelancer if you don't love it. Especially in a place like New York City where everything is so expensive. I met dancers who had three or four extra jobs outside of being a dancer and I said when do you have time to sleep? You know so if you're a freelancer as a dancer in New York City or really any city
00:23:28
Speaker
It's because you love it. And that changes the environment of when you go into those rehearsals. And so a lot of my experiences, especially because I was young, a lot of dancers were older than me. They just kind of took me under their wing and they're just my family really to this day and some of my favorite memories. But I don't think that when I was freelancing that I ever had in my mind, this is what I want to do forever.
00:23:50
Speaker
because I wanted to feel and be in it of what it's like. I'm a dancer with this company. I think I just wanted some kind of title when I was younger specifically, because I came from the school of American Valley, the New York City Valley, big names. I think I had to check something of that nature off.
00:24:06
Speaker
my box for me to have the confidence to say that I'm worthy as a dancer which I hate saying because I now think very differently you know and I think the self-worth and the self-love and the mental health and the security as a person is hard to come by as a dancer. It's hard to come by but it's more than important than the physical health and other aspects of our job so I want to bite my tongue saying that, but I think that that's the truth. As a student coming from that environment, I really just wanted that kind of title to be able to say, Hey, I made it here. Oh yeah. I think differently now, but I think that's what it was then. I think that's very relatable. I think most dancers who train pre-pro ballet, like that is the way it feels. I never consider, like you said, any other path. Like I was yeah like company contracts, that is what do you do. So I definitely think that's very relatable to a lot of dancers.
00:24:59
Speaker
I think it's a hard aspect too, because I think with social media now and press and things, there's a lot that can kind of morph your perspective of what it is to be a valuable dancer in this field. I'm not a huge fan of that. I think it's what you put out there.
00:25:16
Speaker
And how you present yourself that matters, not because you have a billion followers or cause you can put your leg up to here. You know, I don't think that's what matters. Personally, for me, for our art form of ballet, it's a hard balance to find a saying, Oh, I value where I'm at without the title, but I also do appreciate having something that has a name to back it up. For me, it's really now changed to.
Evolving Dance Career Perspective
00:25:40
Speaker
I really appreciate the history of whatever I stand by. You know, like the element of saying, oh, I come from SAB for me now doesn't really have anything to do with the fact that, oh, I'm from SAB. No, it's the teachers that were more incredible dancers, I think, than we are now. and how they worked and the creativeness behind the ballets that were choreographed at that time, the musicality, the physicality of them that we still perform ballets from, you know, a hundred years ago, things like that. you Since being in Boston, learning about the history of this company. Oh my God, Mr. Balanchine actually helped this company get on its feet and Villa Verde was artistic director at some point. And this dancer dance here and Mike
00:26:20
Speaker
previous boss at Kansas City Ballet was a former dancer here. Being a part of that history line, I think matters to me more now than being I dance here or I have this title or whatnot. But i have so it's a hard balance. Yeah, that feeling of being part of something bigger than yourself. That's perfect wording for it. You got your first contract at Pennsylvania Ballet. And how was that transition for you? That was crazy. I was very lucky that a Valentin Stager found me at Steps on Broadway in William Berman's class who has since passed. He is a soul rest in peace, beautiful teacher. I stood behind her at bar and she said, oh, so where do you dance? And I said, well, nowhere. where And she said, well, we need to change that. And she was one of the ones that kind of helped guide me through the audition process and helped me get an audition with Pennsylvania Ballet at the time, which is now Philadelphia Ballet. But I got that second company contract.
00:27:16
Speaker
And I just went in guns blazing, taking every opportunity I could. I think the thing that was hard about that was I went into it thinking this is going to be my end all do all. I am here in the second company. They're going to love me. I'm going to maybe be a principal here one day. I just really wasn't the dancer that fit what the director was looking for. And it took me a long time to accept that.
00:27:44
Speaker
that I did come straight out of the school of American value. I had all this Valentin training and on Hill Korea, who's still the director was more from a classical background that I hadn't touched in years.
00:27:55
Speaker
You know, asking me to do simple things like turn your head and not tilt your cheek in epalma or when you do pirouettes, I need you to spot the corner and do two double bent plie then a straight back forth and spot the front. And there were things like that that i I just didn't have in my body anymore because I hadn't done them since I was 12 years old at New Jersey school of ballet. I worked so hard to be the dancer that I wasn't.
00:28:19
Speaker
It just turned out that I just wasn't the right fit for his company. That was a huge lesson that I learned and I'm super grateful for it because it made me realize that just because one company doesn't want you doesn't mean that you're not worthy of another company or that you're not worthy of being a good dancer. That really changed the confidence in who I am as a dancer and as a person to say the worth and the value that I have for myself doesn't change just because of someone else's opinion. Doesn't mean I can't take it. Doesn't mean I can't change because of someone else's critiques. Of course, always good to take in the criticisms and get perception and things from other people, but that's not the soul inside of how you feel about yourself when you look in the mirror every morning and you wake up and you brush your teeth. Huge lesson, really hard for me to learn, but a huge lesson. Very grateful for the path of being in the second company because it really, uh,
00:29:15
Speaker
taught me what it is to be a company dancer as well. At the Pennsylvania Ballet, you know, I was covering a bunch of different company dancers. I got thrown in when people were getting injured. And I was kind of their go-to girl of if somebody went out and I didn't even know that spot, Courtney, you better be on top of it because you're going to get thrown in. And that happened to me quite a lot. Really, I was a company member without being a company dancer because we performed just as much with the main company, learning the exhaustion, the schedule, the responsibility of now yeah I'm not at my grandparents where my nan may cook me dinner every couple of nights. I'm on my own now fully with laundry and living in a different city also a little further away from home. I think that was a good break in for me before i I went on another path on my journey the following year. So still a beautiful company. Still have so many friends in that company and wasn't meant for me. And I think accepting that not everybody is going to like you.
00:30:09
Speaker
Yeah. It's okay. Nothing, it feels free, but it's okay. No, right. When you were in the second company, at what point did you know you weren't going to have a contract? Were you auditioning pretty early or how is that going for you?
00:30:22
Speaker
Yeah, at first, because I was getting put into a lot of company roles and the second company director liked me, all the ballet masters liked me, I didn't really see not getting a contract coming. In my head, I was like, I'm doing everything right. I'm getting cast. I think in February, we had some meetings with the second company director and he had said, you know, Courtney, there's not going to be a contract for you. I'm a little gutsy, I guess. I just said, I don't understand why.
00:30:48
Speaker
Like, can you give me a reason? Because I do this, I do that, and I listed all the things. And he said, if it was my choice for me, he goes, I think you're a beautiful dancer. I do think you deserve a contract. I just don't think this company is the right fit for you. The second company director at the time, Eddie Tovar, he was one of the ones that kind of put that thought in my mind that maybe this is just not the right place. And I was like, okay, well, if I'm not gonna get a contract here, I have to, I have to audition someone. Which of course in my mind was like, here we go again. This was probably fourth or fifth year that I was auditioning already. you know I wasn't even in a main company yet. So I felt the pressure for sure. And that's where I took it upon myself to reach out to a lot of different people, get different people's opinions. What variations should I film? Where should I audition? Where do you think would be a good place? Can you write me a recommendation letter? Just as much support that I could get from the dance community is what I did. I filmed on my iPod in the studio by myself late after a rehearsal at like nine o'clock at night.
00:31:47
Speaker
film my variation. I like choreographed this, in my opinion, crappy contemporary neoclassical solo on myself in my ponytail in warm up shorts. It was so not professionally done how video auditions are done now. And then I did a bunch of cattle calls. I was like, okay, here we go. Does the mere thought of a audition season make your palms start to sweat? Do you feel completely overwhelmed with getting everything together on top of your regular dancing schedule? I've been there and I totally get it. As dancers, we spend hundreds of hours honing our technique and artistry. But when it comes to figuring out how to put together a resume or what to expect in a professional audition,
00:32:28
Speaker
We're often left to figure it out ourselves. That's why I put together the Ultimate Audition Guide. This is your one-stop shop for everything you need to tackle professional company auditions with ease. No more spending hours Googling and trying to piece together a somewhat coherent audition package. With this guide, you'll be ready to conquer audition season like a true professional.
00:32:49
Speaker
We're talking resumes, head shots, dance photos, dance reels, plus info on how to find auditions, what to wear, what to expect, how to budget, mindset tips, you name it, it is in this guide. You are ready for this moment. Head to the show notes, grab your copy of the Altima Audition Guide and empower yourself with the knowledge to approach audition season like a true professional. Again, I think the right place, the right time, the right leotard,
00:33:17
Speaker
And I originally got a second company contract with Kansas City Ballet that I signed and I was very hesitant to sign it. It was the only contract that I had, but I just didn't want to be in a second company anymore. And even on Hill Korea from Pennsylvania Ballet, when we had our final meeting before I had left the company, he was like, you know, you are ready to be in a company. You deserve to be in a court of LA. I just don't see you fitting in here and I don't want to waste your time. And I respect that so much for the honesty. So when I got the second company contract again, I was like, Oh my gosh, like another year. Like I've already been out of school now going to be three years and I still don't have a job, but I signed it and I said, I'm going to grip my teeth. I'm going to take a chance in Kansas city, whatever that means. And we're going to hope for better. And luckily about six weeks later, I got a separate email saying, Hey, a company spot opened up. Do you want it? And I was like,
00:34:14
Speaker
Absolutely. Yes. So I like to say I got promoted without even being there, you know, because I think I just, in that sense, maybe luck was on my side or the universe or God, whatever you want to believe in that something new that I was ready. And I'm very, very lucky that I got then in the main company because it opened up just a whole new realm of what it meant to be a professional dancer
Kansas City Ballet Experience
00:34:36
Speaker
for me.
00:34:36
Speaker
Yeah. So how was your experience going into a new company as a company member? What was that like for you? That aspect was amazing because I was so excited to have rehearsals. The cast for things audition for parts because Kansas City Valley is an ensemble company. It's not ranked. So any member of the company is eligible to audition when stages come in for different parts. And right off the bat, a four-size stage or came in for in the middle, something elevated.
00:35:05
Speaker
Then I got very lucky and I got cast as one of the principals, which was shocking for this little 19 year old, or at the time, excuse me, 20 year old. No, yes. 20, turning 21, who I'm trying to remember my years. I'm like, wow, it feels a while ago, but, and um, but still young, early 20, they'll say, who has not very much experience getting this huge opportunity. And it just kind of felt like I'm in the right place now because they're seeing me.
00:35:32
Speaker
And I'm not just on the sides getting told, Hey, you deserve opportunities, but we can't give them to you. It was, Hey, you deserve these opportunities and we are going to give you them. And that was incredible for me during nutcracker. I think my first year I did like 10 different parts. My brain was on fire. I don't know sometimes understand how that young I absorb so much choreography, but it has helped me so much throughout the older parts of my career because of knowing how to pace myself from when I was younger, from getting so much thrown onto me, but being young, that was the hardest element. There wasn't really anybody in the company that was my age.
00:36:08
Speaker
Everybody was in their late to early thirties who had maybe already been in a previous company and were transferring to a smaller company to have a little bit of a less load and maybe start a family or different things like that, or just have a change in their career. You know, maybe they just didn't like where they were in their former company and and went to KCB. So finding friends was really hard because I'm a city girl.
00:36:32
Speaker
from the East coast, all of a sudden I'm in the Midwest. I don't have a car. There's no public transportation. There's no subway. There's no shop, right? Or normal grocery stores. And there's a lot of older dancers that, Hey, you want to go get brunch on Saturday? Or, Oh, well, I have to go, you know, dog sit or babysit, or I'm taking care of my family. Or, well, I'm already getting a massage because I'm 33 and I need to take care of my body. or So that element was really hard.
00:37:00
Speaker
really, really hard. I felt really lonely those first couple of years because I was in a different place than a lot of other people in the company and because of the competitive nature of ballet. And I was getting a lot of opportunity at the company. People just assumed, well, Courtney's the girl that's getting the parts and we don't like her and that's it. We're not going to invite her to the parties. And that was kind of it. And I was very lucky for FaceTime. I love FaceTime. Oh my God. Having FaceTime was the biggest thing. I was calling my family all the time and I had a great little apartment that I loved and My mom and my dad came to visit me so much, which was great, but it was definitely a hard transition. And one teacher of mine, who's also a mentor, who I love, who helped me become a professional dancer, especially when I was freelancing, Nancy Bealsky from Steps on Broadway, she advised me, you know, being a dancer is really lonely sometimes. Are you sure you want that? If you can't tell, I'm a very personable social person. I like to chit chat, I like to meet new people, I like to do things. Learning how to be comfortable with doing that by myself, you know, just,
00:37:59
Speaker
You're going to be alone a lot of the time when you're in the studio, you're focused on your work, you're in your own thoughts. And then when you leave the studio, maybe you don't have a group of friends. You're going to be doing things by yourself or you're going to be stuffing your apartment. And I said, well, I'm going to learn how to be on my own. And so I've become very independent and became very independent in that sense. But I think that was probably the hardest part about transitioning to a main company was kind of finding where I fit in.
00:38:25
Speaker
because I was this younger girl from a different part of the country. And, you know, I had experience, but not enough compared to a lot of other people who have been in the core for years. And all of a sudden I'm getting the big part. And to meet certain things, certain things difficult. But I think the biggest thing that I've taken away from that is just patience. It's also the easiest thing to say and the hardest thing to do. All things come with time and patience.
00:38:48
Speaker
You know, and eventually I found who is now my best friend of all time, who I love. I call him my gay husband or sometimes he looks like my brother because he has red hair and we look similar. And he came a couple of years into the company and he ended up leaving the year after. And three, four years later, we're still friends and we FaceTime all the time. And sometimes you just need that one person, you know, that's gonna.
00:39:09
Speaker
help you through. and And there are other people as well through the company that I still love and adore. But yeah, it just took some time, just took some time to adjust. yeah Do you feel like being in an unranked company was more competitive than being in a ranked company? I think the elements of the competition are different. I think in the ensemble company,
00:39:28
Speaker
There are ranks, I think in the director's mind a lot of the times, because there are the more senior dancers who are your principals, who you just know, they've done their time. They do get cast most naturally in the bigger roles. But every once in a while, like when I came in, it's going to turn the tables around. So I think the competitiveness only happens when it's something that everybody knows it's a once in a lifetime opportunity. Like doing Forsyth in Kansas City was extremely rare. Doing Forsythe here in Boston in a ranked company is a little more normal. They do a little bit more programs where there are contemporary neoclassical edgy works. So it might be a little bit different when it comes to that element.
00:40:11
Speaker
The bigger thing when it comes to the competition is the camaraderie of the company. In a smaller company, we sure are competitive with each other, but at the end of the day, I might be dancing the core with this girl today, but then tomorrow she's doing Oded Ogeel. At the end of the day, you don't have a say in the casting, you know? you Whatever you get you get, you want me to be a treat? Okay, I'm gonna be a treat. Whatever. You want me to be the lead? I'll be the lead. That's kind of how it works in the ballet world. If you can't become just satisfied with that that, it's out of your control, I think.
00:40:41
Speaker
probably going to be living a very tortured life, which is really hard. So I try my best to whatever you're going to get, just be happy with it because at the end of the day, all we want to do is dance. yeah If you're in it for a different reason, then you might be in the in the wrong field because it's way too painful and long hours and crazy sacrifices to be unhappy. But in the ensemble company, because there is so much change all the time because we're smaller, the company naturally gets this kind of camaraderie, I'll say, where you see everybody at least at some point in the day to say hello, or, you know, maybe you're partnering with them and then you partner with somebody else the next day and you see everybody, you know, a full call rehearsal is everybody because the entire company has to be there to do the whole ballet because there's not that many of us.
Working in Ballet Companies
00:41:27
Speaker
Whereas in a ranked company, there are dancers like when I first joined Boston that I didn't even meet till six months in.
00:41:33
Speaker
because we're in the same rehearsals because the company's bigger. We're doing so many different works all the time. Everybody's different places in a full call for Cinderella or something. The girls are going to do their part and then they're going to leave because we're going to go rehearse by there in a different studio while the men are doing their stuff. So I think the competition becomes a little bit more heavy. It can become more heavy because you're not seeing everybody on a daily basis as often. And When those stages come, they may be watching one class. The director may be teaching one class that maybe he's going to decide now or something. And so I think the energy can be different in the ranked company for sure. Or just a bigger company, I'll say with more people, you know, more people, more competition. Sure. What prompted your move to Boston, LA? Two different elements, growth and family.
00:42:17
Speaker
Being in Kansas City, I found my places that I really like the facility, I mean, of the studios and the theater, the Kauffman Center. I mean, it is just state of the art. It is absolutely beautiful. Yeah. It's really gorgeous. Have you been it's, I mean, yeah it's beautiful at the stage is the bounteous stage I've ever been on.
00:42:35
Speaker
The backstage is so easy. The dressing rooms are on the same level. and Everything is just brand new state of the art. It's beautiful. And it's right next to the symphony hall, which is also one of the most gorgeous places you can sit and just listen to the music. The acoustics in there it's just, oh, they'll give you chills. But my grandparents used to be able to come out and watch me dance for a while. And then, you know, 70, 80 years old.
00:43:00
Speaker
I'm lucky I still have them alive, but their health was not in a place where they could fly anymore. They were like my second parents to me and not having their support out there or not being able to get my family. I mean, my sister didn't watch me dance until my last year at Kansas City Valley because she couldn't take time off the school when she was doing her master's or then when she finally got her first job to come out and see performances. And I kind of just thought, I need all these sacrifices.
00:43:26
Speaker
Of course I'm dancing for myself, but my family made sacrifices too, and they don't get to see any of this. That just started to weigh a really big toll on my heart. I wanted to be closer to my family. I also think that when you don't picture yourself to build a life where you are, it's hard to want to keep growing in that environment. That was the other aspect of it is. I'm born and raised in New York City, being very honest. I'm a quick, fast-paced person.
00:43:55
Speaker
I like to go and do things and Kansas City was just not the place for me. It didn't suit my personality. I wasn't happy living in the city itself. Of course, I found my happiness, but I just got bored of it and I wanted something new. And I also wanted something new from my dancing as well. I felt like I kind of kept getting cast in certain things and I just felt like I wanted to be pushed in something different. And so I thought, well, what's the worst that can happen? I haven't auditioned in a really long time. After I had gotten my job with Kansas City Valley, I didn't audition until the last year that I left. So that's also what is interesting is I never thought I'm going to leave or I wanted to change. I just thought, let's see what happens. Who knows? And I was really lucky. I got a call and hey, we have a contract for you at Boston. And I said, what?
00:44:45
Speaker
Like I couldn't even believe it because I'm closer to home. I also went to the Boston Valley Summer Course for two years. It was a dream company of mine for a very long time. It was, if I didn't get into New York City Valley, I wanted the Boston Valley. This is as close as I'm going to get. It's a city that I love. Studios that I think are absolutely beautiful. I kind of felt like I had the best of both worlds. And I said, well, I can't turn that down. And yeah, that's what made me make this change, really. I kind of just followed my heart and what I thought would be best for me.
00:45:15
Speaker
even if that meant it was hard in other aspects. Yeah. And I really relate to that, wanting to be closer to family and having that be a priority. And I feel like sometimes that's looked down upon a little bit in the ballet world of like that being a priority because it kind of feels like you just have to go wherever you get a job. And that can be true, but I felt the same exact way. like I am from the Midwest, and I always wanted to live in the Midwest.
00:45:37
Speaker
And I love it here. My first contract was in Tucson and it's a beautiful place to live. It's gorgeous, but it wasn't home. And the whole time I was there, I couldn't picture building a life where I would stay there. It just like didn't feel right to me. My goal was to be in driving distance of my family. Even if it was still not around the corner, I was like, I want to be able to hop in a car because being from Michigan and being in the Arizona, it was a 30 hour drive.
00:46:01
Speaker
You know, so that's how it was for me in Missouri. Yeah. When I moved to Missouri, I was like a 10 hour drive of home. It wasn't like around the corner, but I could feasibly get in a car and drive home. And that was like, okay, now I feel like I'm back in my place in the Midwest. It just felt right. And I think there's nothing to be said for that. And that's okay. Like, that's okay for that to be a priority for you in your dance career is where you're living and feeling at home and feeling like you're going to build a life there beyond your dancing.
Balancing Career and Personal Life
00:46:28
Speaker
I think it's such a hard thing that people forget to talk about as well because there is a point. I mean, I moved to the Midwest. I moved to Kansas City Valley because it was the job that I got. And I'm so grateful that I i wouldn't change it for the world. I really wouldn't. But there was a point where, OK, I'm 25. Your dance career is going to end at some point, unfortunately. It's a very hard thing, I think, to accept. It's something that In the back of my mind, I'm like, oh my God, I'm gonna be 30 in a couple years. It's a scary thought, like, what are you gonna do when you're done dancing? And you wanna be happy with a lot of elements of your life besides just what you do in the studio, because there is a lot more to life than that. It was at the point in my career where I felt like I was getting satisfied and feeling comfortable in my career that I could explore what else was around where I was in my living environment. And I said, wait, I really just don't fit here. That aspect is,
00:47:19
Speaker
hard for people to kind of wrap their heads around because we are trained wherever you get a job, you have to follow the work. We don't have thousands of available jobs everywhere. This is not how it is. If you land a job in another country, which a lot of my friends have done, you go. And even if it's temporary, you go and you've tried to go experience it to get more on your resume and get that experience. But I also think there should be a conversation that says if that's not what you really want, like It's okay to say no, it's okay to not make that choice and freelance for a year. And maybe something else will come around that will show you this is another opportunity. Maybe this is where you'll want to go. And that's where I feel really lucky in my career is even if I didn't necessarily make all those choices for myself, because, Oh, I didn't get a contract while freelance. Oh, I didn't get the company I wanted, it but I got second company. Oh, I never planned about going to the Midwest, but I got that opportunity to go somewhere else and experience it, but make the choice actually.
00:48:16
Speaker
I don't really want to live here. You know, there's a lot of things to the maturing elements of becoming a an adult as a person, not just as a dancer, that gets skipped over, I think, because we're so fast-tracked into the professional field. So I agree, like you're saying, you know, it's a conversation that definitely is so important, but it kind of gets overlooked. Yeah. What do you like to do when you're not dancing?
00:48:42
Speaker
Oh my gosh. I just to do a lot of things if I'm being honest. um When my mom is in town, that's always my favorite, especially that I have her around now. And my sister and my brother too. I've been lucky that we've all been reconnecting since I've been able to be home more and I can go home for parties over the weekend because I can take a train that's only five hours long or my mom will drive up the car and then we'll all go back to Jersey and they'll go home for Labor Day. I was just home for a Labor Day and we went paddle boating on the little lake or whatever.
00:49:11
Speaker
But when I'm here in Boston, probably some of my favorite things to do are go to some of the local, which is funny because in Kansas City, there's always local things everywhere. So that's maybe where I get that from. But I love going to like the local coffee shops or local cafes and just sitting and writing in a notebook or journaling or I love word search puzzles because I think it's a good way to kind of keep your brain going without really having to think. But I also love walking around and finding things that just happen to come about. Like there was a day a couple of weeks ago where I just happened to be walking around the city and there was a little open market and I found some really cute vintage jackets that I bought or there was another day where
00:49:50
Speaker
You know, I decided to just take a walk around the park and then there was a local artist singing that I sat and listened to the live music. Also a big thing for me is I've always grown up on the beach over the summers. So when I've been in Boston, well, I wasn't here so much last summer, but I was here at least this summer to go to the beaches here near the Cape and things having water around is amazing. I just love even to sit over the Harbor or near the Charles river and just kind of admire a beautiful sunset or people watch, there's so much to life that you can enjoy as if you just open your eyes and see it. So that's really my favorite thing is just finding things that I wouldn't expect to find. So yeah, but I've one of my most recent things at the moment because
00:50:34
Speaker
feeder is in right now is going to see some different shows that are in town. Les Mis was here on the tour on Broadway. I saw Frozen last year with a couple of friends. And just the other week, I went to go see the Queen of Versailles, which was a really cool show with Kristin Chenoweth. And I got to hear her sing live. That was really cool. So I kind of love to do all all and everything. So sit home, watch Netflix, but a lot of things. Oh, yeah.
00:50:58
Speaker
I love that. Okay, last
Advice to Aspiring Dancers
00:51:00
Speaker
question. If you had to give aspiring professional dancers one piece of advice, what would you tell them? If I had to give an inspiring dancer a piece of advice, I think firstly, I would say, just believe in yourself. We take so much criticism from the front of the room that it can be hard to remember that You have the power and your love for the art form is what's going to drive you through and believing in that and holding on to that is what will carry you through because everyone can do a perfect technical element, but not everybody can share their passion with others. And I think holding onto that belief in yourself is so, so important as well as this is a testament to my mom at the moment, but we have this little phrase of just,
00:51:53
Speaker
And I said at some point, maybe I should get a tattoo because I've always said this, but I also just think never give up. If you really want something in life, there are so many opportunities. You just have to keep pursuing and ask for help where you can and just keep that hope and drive and hunger for what you want. And you can achieve it. I really believe in that because I am a testament to that. You know, I had everything I could have ever wanted going to go into these big schools and everything. And it all kind of crashed and crumbled right in front of my eyes.
00:52:23
Speaker
And the one thing that kept me going and that made it possible is I just told myself, I'm never going to give up. This is what I want so badly that nothing is going to stop me from achieving my goals in a healthy and positive and nurturing way with the support of my family. So yeah, I think those two phrases are so key. And I hope that young dancers really just take that to heart and try and run with it as best they can.
00:52:51
Speaker
or whatever their hopes and dreams are, because it sounds silly, but living your dream, it can be a reality. And when it is, it's a very special, very, very special thing. And I'm very honored to say that I get to do that every day as my job. Yeah, it's really pretty cool. Yeah, it is. If any dancers want to connect with you, where can we find you? What's your Instagram handle or website or whatever you want to share?
00:53:17
Speaker
Well, at the moment, I just got a TikTok, which is at knitting without decay. And my Instagram matches that as well. Otherwise, find me Courtney knitting kind of anywhere on Facebook or obviously at the Boston Valley website. There's always different ways that you can connect with us there. Perfect. Thank you so much, Courtney. This was a really inspiring conversation. I'm really grateful to have gotten to talk to you today.
00:53:38
Speaker
Caitlin, it has been so wonderful. What wonderful questions I got to answer. I'm so honored, too, that this is my first podcast, so thank you so much. Yay! Of course. It's so exciting. Yeah, thank you so much.
00:53:55
Speaker
Thank you for tuning into the Brainy Ballerina podcast. If you found this episode insightful, entertaining, or maybe a bit of both, I would so appreciate you taking a moment to leave a rating and hit subscribe. By subscribing, you'll never miss an episode. And you'll join our community of dancers passionate about building a smart and sustainable career in the dance industry. Plus, your ratings help others discover the show too. I'll be back with a new episode next week. In the meantime, be sure to follow along on Instagram at TheBradyValerina for your daily dose of dance career guidance.