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The State of Call of Duty in 2021
288 Plays3 years ago
In this episode, Satsunami and Adam discuss the state of Call of Duty in 2021. From it's golden era to it's better forgotten troubled years, does it still hold up today? Or has the once proud FPS titan fallen? Let's find out!
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Transcript
Introduction and Episode Theme
00:00:05
Speaker
Welcome to Chatsunami.
00:00:17
Speaker
Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of Chatsunami. I'm Satsunami and joining me for the Call of Duty is my brother in arms, Adam. Adam, welcome to the show. You know what they say, only the dead have seen the end of the Call of Duty series. Hello, hello and good to be back.
00:00:37
Speaker
What a sombre opening can I just say? I thought I'd go for the most depressing quote I could to start us off. Yes, so if you're at home listening to this on the PC, get your keyboards at the ready or your phones at the ready and hit that F button because it's going to be a sombre episode. I hope F isn't a shortcut for anything on Zincaster because I am mashing it like crazy right now.
00:00:59
Speaker
Oh no, you've stopped recording. OK, that's all we have time for today, so we're going to be...
Call of Duty Series Excitement and Personal History
00:01:06
Speaker
Ah, jokes aside, how are you doing today, Adam? I'm not too bad, thank you very much. I am very, very excited to be talking about this. I've been excited all day, chomping at the bit to get going with this, but how are you doing?
00:01:17
Speaker
Not too bad. I was doing a bit of research in between working today, you know, working hard on the podcast and or in life. And yeah, I am also just really excited because you and I have actually been talking a lot about college at you recently, haven't we? I know. Well, it's that time of year, you know, there's, there's, what have you, you've got, you've got summer, you've got spring, you've got Halloween, and then you've got the release of a new college TV game. Mark your calendar with
00:01:40
Speaker
You know, the pumpkins are getting thrown out, so is your money when you buy the new College Duty game. Don't you worry, we will get to Vanguard. I know, you take your pumpkin away from your doorstep and put the tactical night vision goggle headset down.
00:01:54
Speaker
smoke grenade. If you're good this year, Santo will give you a Kimbo's. If not, then he just gives you a big nerf, you know. Oh man. Oh, a nerf again. Hope Santo doesn't bring you recoil for Christmas because my god, it's going to be a bumpy ride this year. But yeah,
00:02:13
Speaker
with that very, as I always start with to say that very subtle hint today, we are indeed going to be talking about the Call of Duty series, which is a series that is near and dear to our heart. And just to kind of recap, it is safe to say, isn't it, that this is a series that is very important to you now.
00:02:31
Speaker
Oh, no doubt. I mean, I think, speaking for both of us, I think we both kind of grew up as gamers with the Call of Duty series. Like, it's been there from like, you know, it's been there throughout our kind of gaming history. So, yeah, it's very important to the both of us. Like, you started at the very beginning, didn't you, with the first Call of Duty set in World War Two.
00:02:51
Speaker
I did. When I was a rosy-cheeked, fresh-faced young lad, I started out with, yeah, Finest Hour, which isn't part of the main series, but was one of the early, early Call of Duty games released back in 2004. So, yeah, I was there at the beginning, man.
00:03:07
Speaker
You were on the beaches of Normandy. I was. Fighting the good fight. I was there before that. I was there in Dunkirk. You were on the fishing boat. Of course. I was exactly fleeing away in terror. Can you tell we're also history buffs? Anyway, the history podcast episodes next week. So if you want to tune into that, feel free. So you've been there since the very beginning.
Call of Duty's Golden Years and Cultural Impact
00:03:26
Speaker
I got into it a little bit later. I got into during Call of Duty 3D, which isn't regarded as one of the best Call of Duty's, but I remember playing it and I just remember having such a blast with it. I remember loving every minute, you know, thinking it was hyper-realistic even though it wasn't. Trust me, don't look it up right now. Don't look at the graphics please.
00:03:48
Speaker
the police, whatever you do. But it was a great series, you know, it hooked me in and then, you know, the subsequent games started hooking me in. But many people who listen to this, listen to Chatsunami, might already know as I'm also a fan of another particular series, which I've watched Crash and Burn, that of course being the Sonic series.
00:04:09
Speaker
which surprisingly share some very eerie similarities with this franchise. It began very strong, it had a dedicated following, it was the top of its genre, and then they started trying new things. People weren't as receptive. There's that one black sheep game of the family where people say, why the hell did you do that? Then they found a formula that worked
00:04:35
Speaker
And now it's become stale. And yeah, the past games would shake its head in shame. Yep, you thought I couldn't get Sonic the Hedgehog into this episode, but let me tell you something, Adam. I have indeed warmed it in. Your ability to bring Sonic into any conversation is quite remarkable and very crazy, are they? Well, thank you. And I don't know whether to take that as praise or a sign that I need help, but anyway.
00:05:01
Speaker
Jokes aside, as a franchise that started so strong, it was like, it's fair to say, isn't it, that this was like a titan of the FPS genre back in the day. Oh yeah, this was like, for like a good few, a good solid chunk of time, this was like the touchdown. You know, if you thought of like a first-person shooter, and you thought of the best first-person shooter, you'd probably go to a Call of Duty game. There really wasn't much else that could
00:05:26
Speaker
get close to it you know because whenever you heard college you see you would always hear it as like the thing to get for like the christmas periods or college it wasn't just like not what it is nowadays and we will get onto that we will talk about the kind of good points and the bad points of the franchise like where it's gone and everything but
00:05:46
Speaker
It was, as you said, it was a go-to game. You would have to explain to your grandparents or your parents. You'd be like, you don't understand, Mum. We're fighting for freedom. It's like, this is our 18 plus, but we're fighting for freedom, Mum. You don't understand.
00:06:02
Speaker
We're fighting a Normandy. It's like, this is in space. I don't care. Well, you know, et cetera, et cetera. But that was the kind of buzz. You know, I remember being in high school. Everybody talked about this game. Like, was it was it the same with you when you were in high school? Oh, definitely. Like, so I was I went I went to a boarding school and like this was we had a we had Xbox 360 there. And, you know, like, like my last years there were like the times of like modern warfare.
00:06:28
Speaker
and World of War and things like that and basically the two games that got played you know the two games that got played collectively were like whatever whatever the latest FIFA was and whatever the latest Call of Duty was like those were the two like touchstone ones that like basically everybody like yeah people had varying interests in my video games overall but those were the two like those were the two games that people played like everybody really played
00:06:50
Speaker
I mean they are kind of like the entry point into a lot of gamers. I don't want to be dramatic and say like gaming journeys but you know what I mean in terms of like in terms of like teenagers who have kind of and I don't want to be like you know pretentious and be like old or graduated from other games they played as children but I was one of those teenagers. I was one of those ones who used to play games like Pokemon, Sonic, you know platformers like Mario and things and I thought right okay
00:07:18
Speaker
I'm a teenager. I'm no longer like, I'm no longer a child. I need to play mature games now, like Call of Duty and Halo, which is dumb thinking, thinking back on it. But you know that way when you think, I've got to try and find a game that, you know, suits my tastes now. And your tastes in gaming are always going to change. You know, they're not always going to have like the same taste and like shooters or platformers or whatever, but
00:07:44
Speaker
Yeah, Call of Duty was the one where I got so allured by Call of Duty 3, then I played Modern Warfare 2 for the Xbox Z6. I loved it. I was like, this is the best game ever. And then it started an acting downward spiral of, okay, maybe this year of games wasn't as good, but at least we've got Call of Duty.
00:08:04
Speaker
at least we've got cards. Yeah, it was a dark time. Would it be safe to say that Call of Duty has almost become a meme nowadays? Oh, definitely. I mean, it's a thing now that I think, if you say it, like the percentage chances that somebody, the person you're talking to will roll their eyes, you know, it's not that it's not the like exciting thing that it once was. It is very old hat. And it's just like, it's one of these things that we were, you know, is that, you know, rather than being like, Oh, boy, it's, you know,
00:08:39
Speaker
I always remember growing up and seeing all the videos on YouTube and things. You know all the CDs they used to do.
00:08:49
Speaker
the Shinimas and all the parody videos and there's one particular series that I want to point out and I know I break it up every time code comes up but it's that series online gamer which I think it didn't like spark a love of code but it definitely reinforced or not reinforced but it validated
00:09:08
Speaker
my feelings towards God because it was basically about the stereotypical bro gamer who you know he just spoken really like offensive language and everything. All he did was play Call of Duty, that was his only frame of reference and despite it being pretty much like a big ad for Call of Duty,
00:09:25
Speaker
It was like a lot of fun to watch. It was funny as well, don't get me wrong, it was funny, but you know, it was everywhere like that. And then I think they technically, they did bring it back during the lockdown last year and there was something about it that just wasn't the same. And I think it's maybe because Call of Duty no longer holds the same place that it used to. Because there used to be people who would complain saying, oh, Battlefield is the best or, oh, Call of Duty is the best.
00:09:54
Speaker
I feel as if we've actually time travelled because at the time of recording this episode Halo Infinite the multiplayer has just dropped and I don't know about you, I don't know have you tried it yet Adam? I've not tried it yet. Oh it's a lot of fun. It feels like the old Halo and it is weird to say that because you know how it used to be like oh you buy Battlefield or you buy Call of Duty. I haven't tried Battlefield 2042 yet but yeah
00:10:20
Speaker
not heard good things. Yeah, I have not heard good things for the recent entry. I've not been too impressed, but we'll get to that for Vanguard. Overall, Halo is a breath of fresh air, so it seems as if I've travelled back to 2007 on Halo 3.
00:10:36
Speaker
When that was the king, you know, it feels bizarre. It's kind of like, really? To kind of give a bit of context before we jump into the main topic today, we are going to be talking about pretty much the good, the bad and the ugly today. We're both going to be sharing our opinion on the best period of Call of Duty. We are going to be talking about where we think Call of Duty 2 went wrong
00:11:00
Speaker
where it kind of started to falter. And then we're going to go on to how we feel about Call of Duty, really as it is now, how it's presented to us now, and our kind of thoughts about the future of the series. So without any further ado, are you ready to drop into this hot zone? Let's do it. Let's do it. I've got my parachute on. I'm ready to call my care packages. Let's do it.
00:11:24
Speaker
So we better double check that this zone's safe to jump into. So before we do, just a slight warning. There are going to be spoilers for all of the games that we're going to be talking about. Take this as your kind of blanket warning. And yeah, without any further ado, we are going to jump in right after these messages. So we will be right back.
00:11:45
Speaker
Welcome to Chatsunami, a variety podcast that talks about topics from gaming and films to streaming in general interest. Previously on Chatsunami, we discussed Game of the Decade, Deadly Premonition, the romantic thriller, Birdemic, and listen to us get all sappy as we discuss our top five Christmas films. If that sounds like your cup of tea, then you can find us an anchor, Spotify, YouTube, and all good podcast apps. As always, stay safe, stay awesome, and most importantly, stay hydrated.
00:12:16
Speaker
We are Beer and Chill Podcast. Podcast where we review TV shows, games, movies and whatever else takes our fancy. So what are you waiting for? If you're a cool kid like us, you're gonna listen to the Beer and Chill Podcast. You can get it anywhere from Spotify all the way to your grandmother's radio. My name is Jan. And I'm Craig Yisi. And we are Beer and Chill.
00:12:51
Speaker
And thank you for those messages. So Adam, let's start with a positive because I should have warned everyone before we started this episode, there is going to be a lot of salt content in this episode. So if you have high cholesterol, please be wary and consult a doctor first before you listen to this episode. And yeah, let's start with a positive. Let's put our rose tinted glasses on and talk about when collage you see used to make us feel warm and fuzzy inside.
00:13:21
Speaker
Adam, do you want to start and tell the lovely audience listening at home when you thought the series was at its peak?
Peak of the Franchise and Notable Titles
00:13:29
Speaker
If I'm picking when I think the series was at its peak, I would pick from the year 2005 to the year 2009. The first Call of Duty was released in 2003. I didn't play it that year, but it was a very highly acclaimed game. I think it won
00:13:46
Speaker
a lot of Game of the Year awards that year. I talked about this recently, but it was a real breath of fresh air compared to what the FPS titles, especially something like Medal of Honor, that were on the market at the time. Call of Duty really differentiated itself and it very rapidly gained a strong
00:14:03
Speaker
fanbase and that's why they've been able to churn out a title basically every year since then. But for me, the real peak when I got really into this series was 2005 when the sequel came out, Call of Duty 2. This was the first game I got from my Xbox 360. Again, it's probably one of the games I've played the most in my life. I love it. I think it's near perfect.
00:14:23
Speaker
just such a refined and polished shooting experience just really pure filter there's not like a lot of like fluff and you know kind of things around it it's really just a pure fps experience and i love it i think it's great and yeah like i'm not i wasn't as thrilled by cold duty 3 which was the year after but i still think it's i still think it's a good game and i still think it's fun to play i don't think it's aged as well
00:14:45
Speaker
as like the first or second Call of Duty, but still, I think it's still a good one to play. But then of course, 2007, yeah, Call of Duty 4. And again, I feel like we may have forgotten how revolutionary that game was. Like it really was, like not to be too hyperbolic, but it really was like a kind of landmark title in both gaming and the sort of FPS genre, just for like how basically so many games afterwards tried to ape.
00:15:09
Speaker
Call of Duty 4 had done. It really set a benchmark. I still think it's the height of the series. I don't think the series has been a game as good as that in the Call of Duty series since. And we talked about World of War recently. World of War is fantastic. Really, really good game. Really interesting thematically what it tried to do. And then in 2009, we had Modern Warfare 2, the sequel to the Call of Duty
00:15:31
Speaker
And yeah, like I really like I don't think it's as good as college before but still like I so much fun playing it Like I had lots of fun with the campaign and the multiplayer was like that was my final year at boarding school Not with the multiplayer there was like just such it was like a highlight, you know It's what everybody would be playing and so just lots of good memories of that and so that really for me if I'm picking the peak I'm picking between 2005 to 2009
00:15:54
Speaker
I think to an extent I would agree with that. I would probably push it a year forward, or a couple of years forward, mainly because I never played Call of Duty 2. I know, I know. He had a say. I stand before the court to say, you'll pay for your crimes when you get your say.
00:16:11
Speaker
Were it so easy Adam? Sorry, that's Halo. Anyway, that's from Call of Duty right? Probably. The Arbiter, him standing in Stalingrad. Anyway, historical inaccuracies aside, as I say, Call of Duty 3 was my first game
00:16:30
Speaker
in the series and we have talked about, as I said in the intro, we have talked about the series a lot. There's been about three episodes I want to say that we've talked specifically about Call of Duty, you know, we've talked about the Modern Warfare series, we've talked about the Black Ops series and we've talked about the World War II games in the series which was about two episodes ago I think. We've talked about these games because they're so influential
00:16:56
Speaker
It was the first two for Black Ops and Modern Warfare. I would agree. 2007, although I didn't play it at the time, I went back to play it. I did the opposite order. I played Modern Warfare 2 first and then I went back and bought Modern Warfare. I loved both of them. I do agree. I think both of them just set such a high standard for what a good FPS shooter should be.
00:17:20
Speaker
And again, they're not perfect. Same with the World at War. I think World at War is by far one of the strongest World War II entries into the series as well. And of course, after Modern Warfare 2, the year after, we got Call of Duty Black Ops in 2010. That is by far one of my favourite games of all time. Or not favourite games, but favourite Call of Duty games. I think that the gameplay's great, the multiplayer was fantastic. This was probably the last game that Zombies was actually fun.
00:17:50
Speaker
because I know we've got a mutual friend who loves playing zombies, but I do think it was when pretty much when things were 100%. As I was saying before, you would either choose like, it's a bit like the PlayStation and Xbox crowd, isn't it? For the FPS crowd, you would have the Battlefield guys versus the
00:18:10
Speaker
Call of Duty fans. And you had Halo, don't get me wrong, but it almost felt like Apples and Oranges with Halo and Battlefield and Modern Warfare, or not Modern Warfare but Call of Duty as a whole. Because they were very similar games, you would see them compared a lot for Battlefield and Call of Duty. So Call of Duty, I think at that time, I do agree from the storylines and the campaigns which
00:18:33
Speaker
Nowadays, it does seem like there's been less emphasis on a campaign, and I know we'll get onto that later. Trust me, we will get onto that. I've got my sights at the end of this episode. This was definitely when it was at its strongest, when they were trying to find a way to weave the narrative in and
00:18:53
Speaker
you know, the gameplay as well, because obviously Call of Duty is core, it is still a game, but the way they married the story with the gameplay, I think they did a fantastic job with it. The only critique I would say is Modern Warfare 2's ending was terrible. After you kill Shepard and you, like, get taken away and you know, it cuts in that cliffhanger ending. I did not appreciate that, can I just say?
00:19:19
Speaker
like not in a bad way but I remember playing it and then you know you have Nikolai saying that I know a place and then that's it it cuts and I remember playing it like blasting through it on Christmas and I was like wait that's it no no there's more there has to be more and it was more like wanting more it wasn't like saying oh the story's rubbish because you know again it's like a bombastake it's a word I love saying on this show it's a bombastake Michael B.S.
00:19:48
Speaker
between that smorgasbord don't worry i'll weave it in somehow a bombastic smorgasbord yeah see if the podcast doesn't work out do you just want to open up a sandwich shop let's just do it yeah just call it the bombastic smorgasbord okay guys this is the last episode of chat tsunami
00:20:05
Speaker
are coming. If you want to see more of our content, check out www.mombasicsmorkish.com, because every time I joke about that there probably is someone who's created that website and they'll be like, why are we getting so many references about college? I don't know. No, to cut it short, I would agree. I would say Black Ops was when
00:20:27
Speaker
the series was at its height. Again I would say that Black Ops 2 was, and this is a personal opinion because I know we'll get into that in the next section, Black Ops 2 going back to it, I think it's a really good game and I think it's a really strong entry to the series but I don't feel as if
00:20:45
Speaker
I could include it in, you know, the Golden Age. Because as I said, the story was great, the multiplayer was fantastic for these games. I think they, yeah, it was. Modern Warfare 2, I think, was the very first Call of Duty game I played online. And yes, it was an Xbox 360 lobby. Take that how you please. Yeah, I loved it. I played Black Ops a lot with friends. Would you say that as well, that playing with friends influenced your opinion on these games?
00:21:13
Speaker
Oh, definitely. I mean, it's why something like Modern Warfare 2, I still rate so highly in the series. I think there are a lot, I think there are better games in the series than Modern Warfare 2, but I have that emotional attachment to it because I played it so much at school with friends and everything, and it just elevated it so much that I've got that nostalgia for it.
00:21:36
Speaker
I would say the same but for Black Ops like I think Black Ops is probably the one I played the most like I wasn't sure whether I wanted to get it or not but a lot of my friends were just like oh you should buy it and yeah I'm looking at you for Vanguard Adam but we'll get to you
00:21:54
Speaker
That jokes isn't you. Yeah, see me after class. Yeah, for Black Ops, it was definitely the height, I would say. The reason I'm stopping here is I didn't really play the others when they came out. You know, like Mortal Warfare 3, I heard they went great, so I ended up defecting to other games, like some kind of Soviet spy.
00:22:16
Speaker
Or I went back and played them and they weren't the worst. But before I go into that, we'll jump into the next section of when we thought Call of Duty kind of lost that age and that spark.
Franchise Decline and Overuse of Futuristic Elements
00:22:30
Speaker
Let's do it. Let's go negative.
00:22:32
Speaker
Nice. Going dark. So yeah, when do you think Call of Duty started to waver in your eyes? So for me, it's 2012. And I agree with you. I really like Black Ops as well. I've kind of left it out of the peak because, I don't know, for me, Modern Warfare 2 is just that kind of definitive one. I kind of wanted to end there with the peak.
00:22:52
Speaker
But I really like Black Ops 2, I think it's still a really great game, one of the strongest in the series, I agree. I loved Modern Warfare 3 at the time, just 2011. I don't think it's aged as well, looking back. I think it's certainly the weakest, I would say, out of all the Modern Warfare games.
00:23:08
Speaker
There was internal turmoil at the developer Infinity Ward at the time which hampered it and it feels like a weak kind of finale to that Modern Warfare trilogy, which is a shame, but I still had fun playing it and everything. I think it suffered as well in that Battlefield 3 came out that year and I think Battlefield 3 was so strong. I like both of those games. I don't quite know which one I prefer, but I think that's having such a strong entry of a different FPS franchise, you know, kind of
00:23:32
Speaker
her at Call of Duty there. But for me, where I started to lose interest in the series was 2012 with Black Ops 2. I don't like that game. I didn't really like it at the time and I still don't like it now. I find the story confusing. I don't think it's well done. I think it innovated in the wrong ways. I think the Strike Force missions are one of the worst things that's ever
00:23:54
Speaker
been in a Call of Duty game. I didn't like the shift to futuristic technologies and futuristic warfare. It doesn't. It's my kind of least favorite, especially in terms of the Call of Duty series, my least favorite period of the Call of Duty games. The multiplayer was good. I don't recall. I didn't get as engaged with the multiplayer and Black Ops 2 as I did with like Modern Warfare 3 and Black Ops. I don't know why. I think it was just again, I really wasn't into that kind of future warfare. So
00:24:20
Speaker
It feels like a weak entry for me and I just don't like it. I have to be honest, I just really don't like it. And this kind of started a trend for me. The next one after that was Call of Duty Ghosts 2013, which I was still buying Call of Duty's on release day at this point and I got Ghosts on release day.
00:24:36
Speaker
I liked Ghost when I was playing it. Again, it's one that I kind of filed away in my mind at the time I played it. However, looking back at it, I do really like Ghost as it goes. I'm maybe in the minority here. I know a lot of people like to crap on Ghost's story and everything, but I like that game. I'm sorry, I like it. I think the gameplay is solid. While the story maybe isn't the best, I think the missions are great. And people like to joke about the ridiculous nature of the story. I'm sorry, Ghost's story is no more ridiculous than most of the Call of Duty games.
00:25:04
Speaker
Like, I don't think it's any worse. I think there were some innovative levels, there were some levels in space that I thought were really cool and kind of made you have to think differently about how you play the game. I think it has one of the best antagonists in a Call of Duty game and I think it has, outside of Call of Duty 4, I think it has the best ending of any Call of Duty game.
00:25:21
Speaker
I love it. Sorry, college is to ghost. Yep, it's subversive. It completely subverts your expectations for what you think is going to happen. Hold on. I'm biting my tongue here. Okay. Sorry, continue. I completely say like just again, going to spoil the chapter here, but basically
00:25:38
Speaker
It kind of ends in that traditional way. You have a big, like, the last level is this big firefight on this train that ends up crashing and you know, you take down, you think you've taken down the antagonist and you and your like, you and your brother crawl to safety and you're watching as like, you know, the Americans have like taken the fight, you know, winning the fight and like restoring kind of order, for lack of a better term. And you're like, that's your classic kind of, you know, ecology entry, ending, sorry.
00:26:00
Speaker
then all of a sudden the antagonist reappears and like subdues both of you and your brother and drags you the player character off and says like you know he's gonna like turn you against you know your friends and your family and everything and that's how the game ends with like your brother like screaming not being able to rescue you and that is such a great ending because it completely subverts everything that we knew about Call of Duty campaign it comes out of nowhere and it set up I thought something really interesting for a future game wasn't to be unfortunately
00:26:33
Speaker
was the next one that got released. And so this one was properly, again, set in futuristic times and it very much lent into the kind of future technology. This is where we started getting like wall running and double jumping boosts and things like that. And to be honest, this is where I went off because I really wasn't that interested in the future kind of warfare technology and everything like that. And this was the first Call of Duty game that I didn't buy on release. I got it like quite a few months later. I didn't particularly enjoy playing it. I have to admit, like I didn't really, this is when I begin to lose my interest in the multiplayer.
00:27:03
Speaker
because my brain just couldn't track like people like wall running and double jumping and boosting over and so like I was just absolutely terrible at the multiplayer in this which is gonna put me off. I have like I have I've been trying to replay it again recently and I replayed the first level the day before we were recording this and I actually quite enjoyed playing that again so I'll be interested to replay the campaign again to see if my opinions have changed but at the time wasn't really for me
00:27:26
Speaker
It's the same with the next year's Call of Duty Black Ops 3. Again, it just didn't really click with me. Again, I didn't get it on release, got it a few months afterwards. Again, the multiplayer, I was just out of my depth. The story, it's one of these ones, again, I want to replay this one again because I don't think I got the intricacies of the story at the time. But having read a lot about it, I kind of want to replay the campaign because I think it tries to do some interesting stuff. I think it's thematically quite interesting, so I'm kind of keen to play it again.
00:27:52
Speaker
It didn't grab me at the time. I didn't really rate it as anything special. I didn't get Infinite Warfare, which was the 2016 Call of Duty entry. This was the one that got a lot of hate. This was the one set in space. And by this point, people were kind of fed up with the future warfare angle and wanted Call of Duty to do something different. Yeah, I was completely out of Call of Duty. I was checked out by this point. This was also the year that Battlefield 1 came out, which was the Battlefield game set in the First World War. And I loved that. I loved that game at the time. I still love it now. And that's like absorbed all my attention and all my interest.
00:28:22
Speaker
And I didn't actually end up playing Infinite Warfare until a few years ago when I borrowed, I borrowed Satsunami's copy. It's a fine game, like I don't think it deserved all the hate but it's probably my least favourite entry in the Call of Duty series. I don't think it's bad, it just didn't do anything for me. It just didn't feel like a Call of Duty game, it felt like a kind of like Titanfall slash Halo kind of knockoff and I just, I don't think it was as good as either of those kind of series.
00:28:45
Speaker
Yeah, so I think like looking at from like 2012 to 2016, I think is really the low point for me personally, I've called you with with this like caveat that 2013 entry ghost is great. I will not hear a word said against it. Well, prepare yourself. Oh, man. Get your strangers ready because I'm coming in.
00:29:04
Speaker
Yeah, I would say, I would agree technically with that same time period, but I would extend it out by two years. So I'm going to go with 2011 to 2017, which of course includes Modern Warfare 3 and World of War 2. Two games which I'm very not fond of, but we will get to that. I say as I like pull out the list, I'm about to nail to someone's door, and I'll talk to side though.
00:29:29
Speaker
Modern Warfare 3 was definitely the time where people were starting to get quite tired of the franchise. As you said before, there was a lot of people who, you know, Call of Duty was going through an identity crisis. It started off as a World War II shooter, then World War II shooters became not cool and not hip and then they moved to Modern Warfare and then they moved to the Cold War as well. There was that kind of in between but
00:29:55
Speaker
with the modern warfare stuff. As you said before, Battlefield 3 came out in... when did that come out? Was it 2011? 2011, yeah. 2011, yeah. I remember actually getting that over this game. I remember my mum asking, do you want the new Call of Duty game? And I was like, oh no, I want Battlefield 3. And I can just imagine her rolling her eyes being great after remembering another franchise. But I played that and that's got it.
00:30:19
Speaker
horrific campaign, but we will get to that one day. But I still love the gameplay. I thought the gameplay was absolutely fantastic and the multiplayer for that is just... oh chef kiss! So, so good. But when I went to play Modern Warfare 3 back, it did feel a little bit like a lazy mod. It is not a mod, you know what I mean though, it's like it felt like they were just re-skinning and using other assets from Modern Warfare 2. It's a complete re-skin of Modern Warfare 2, like
00:30:46
Speaker
I mean, the reason, of course, as you pointed out so well, the fact that there was internal turmoil at Infinity Award, which meant that was it Sledgehammer that had to come in? They were working on college TV at NAMM. Was that right? Yeah, I think that was the title. Yeah, and then they had to like, they got taken away and they had to do, you know, Modern Warfare 3. Black Ops 2, the only reason, and you know, everyone's entitled to their opinion, even if they're wrong, but
00:31:15
Speaker
Nah, jokes aside, thank you. With Black Ops 2, I wasn't sure what to think of it. I do agree in some respects. The tower defense mode was terrible. I did not appreciate that. I did go back last year though and I replayed it in veteran. Humblebrag there. I actually really enjoyed it. I think the reason being is because I played, and you can hear my full rant on the Black Ops series in our retrospective, but
00:31:44
Speaker
I actually enjoyed Black Ops 2 because I like the ideas they were going for and the fact it did feel like a natural progression from Black Ops 1, but maybe not natural, but it felt more believable than what they pulled in Black Ops 3. I absolutely hated what they did in Black Ops 3. Like, I'm all gate to that, but Black Ops 3 is like one of those games I find really fun gameplay-wise, but see story? I hated it. I thought it was too convoluted, it was too over the top, too
00:32:14
Speaker
and I do see what you mean. There are lines to read, but you could read one line at the beginning that says your character's dead and the rest is a fever dream. So you think, great, this is all a fever dream. What's the point in playing then? And then of course you get the brutal scene at the beginning.
00:32:29
Speaker
where you get your limbs torn off and it's so gory. And this is something we actually touched on in a modern warfare retrospective, but it's that idea of Call of Duty trying to be more gory and trying to be more shocking. No more is that obvious than with Black Ops 2. I would go as far to say as Black Ops 2 is probably one of the goriest games out the entire franchise.
00:32:51
Speaker
You know, beyond World at War, but that's more of like a period piece. You've got the World of War II horrors, you know, the Pacific run of Stalingrad in the Eastern Front in Germany and Russia. For this one, you literally, the game basically starts with you watching a man burn alive. You rescue Woods, who is in a container filled with dead bodies. It is quite brutal. And Modern Warfare 3 did the thing where they blew up a child with a chemical weapon, which
00:33:17
Speaker
again we've kind of touched on that haven't we about the shock value for the sake of just being shocking and controversial and you think why bother well obviously money sales but this is where it started to waver because although i did kind of enjoy them
00:33:34
Speaker
they're not my favourites either. I would still go back and say Black Ops or World of Warfare 2 or World of War. That period, as we spoke about, that's definitely my favourite. I played Ghost a couple of years later. I did not appreciate it. I'm sorry, Adam. I'm sorry I had to find out this way live on this recording. I'm sorry. So are the ones you like disappointing you the most?
00:34:00
Speaker
It's true. It's true. I hated this game. I'm sorry. I think what annoyed me more was the fact that they kept beefing up this game. They kept saying, oh, we've got an award winning writer from the film Traffic. We've got, you know, destructible cover. I'll get to that. We've got dog models and things. And I think the thing that
00:34:19
Speaker
probably hurt it the most and kind of just to contextualise it, Call of Duty Ghosts came out at a transitional period of gaming. It came out at the time where the Xbox One had just come out. Yeah, the Xbox One came out in about 2013 and let's face it, the Xbox was not having a good time PR wise. They were describing that as the water cooler.
00:34:41
Speaker
of gaming, the worst thing they could have done, they were selling it as an entertainment system rather than gaming, you know, there was the whole like online all the time issue, you know, it was a PR nightmare. So then they were like quick, we've got to have a game that has to come out exactly the same time as the Xbox One. And I don't think Halo came out at the same time. No, no, like Halo 5 was the first x-ray that wasn't like that was until 2015.
00:35:06
Speaker
It was a PR nightmare. So I think College of Two Ghosts was the one they were banking on to be like, oh, people are going to buy Xboxes just for that. Spoilers. No. I got this for the 360, and I don't know if there's much difference between that and the Xbox One. I did not enjoy the story. I thought it was so fan fiction-y. Like, I was getting flashbacks. Like, earlier on today, I was doing research for this. Like, it reminded myself what the story was about, and it gave me, like,
00:35:36
Speaker
home front vibes. But instead of the North Koreans, it's the whole of South America which band together and invade the US for some reason. It had good ideas. I think all of the College of State Games can be summed up with that. It had good ideas, but it just kind of, you know, it wasn't fleshed out enough, I think. Oh, wouldn't it? The gameplay was good. Riley, the dog. It is Riley, isn't it?
00:36:04
Speaker
Yeah, regularly the dog was cute riding on the tank and everything. I thought, oh, it was a good war machine. I didn't like the ending purely because, and I know you said, I do agree it is subversive and everything, but I was with you until I was thinking back to someone else's comparison compared to like, see Modern Warfare 2. In Modern Warfare 2, obviously you get stabbed in shot in the game,
00:36:27
Speaker
kind of like this unwritten rule that if you get stabbed and shot in the game, you're like a superhero. You know, you can take all the bullets and you can take all the punches and everything, but as soon as you transition into like a cutscene, that's where you're most vulnerable and you're gonna get stabbed and things. At the end of Modern Warfare 2, you get stabbed by Shepard to the extent that that stab wound can
00:36:48
Speaker
carries on to Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3, where you have to be airlifted to hospital, you're still out of action and everything, even with Black Ops and Black Ops 2, there was kind of that, you know, link between getting injuries in these cutscenes and having these effects, like cause and effect essentially. With this, Rourke gets shot, the main villain, he gets shot several times, he gets beaten over the head, he falls from
00:37:14
Speaker
high distance. And I'm not saying Call of Duty games have always been realistic, because let's face it, they're not. But yeah, just, it seemed the most Michael Bay-esque out of them, I would say, or one of. You know, it was like America, fuck yeah, we've got these super weapons in space. Oh, this would get sound terrible, but oh, the South Americans are invading, which I'm sure you could read between the lines there.
00:37:37
Speaker
ever wrote that but yeah it just it wasn't my favorite but I wouldn't say it was the worst I'll give it that I wouldn't say it's the worst and apologies for going off in a tangent there it's like you have an opinion let me sort that for you
00:37:58
Speaker
The ghosts are coming to get you. Exactly. Can I just say it's got one of the funniest lines in it of all time. And this is a line that you and I riff on a lot. It is, but. Yeah. It's where you as, you know, an American teen or not teens or a young adult, an American young adult find out that your father is part of this like special covert ops team called the ghosts. And we always joked and we gave it a lot more emotion than the actual scene has where it's like,
00:38:28
Speaker
Dad, you were a ghost the entire time. And that's exactly how it says it. You think I'm riffing on it being like, oh, he's underplaying it, he's saying it without any emotion. Go watch the scene. I beg you, go watch the scene. It is as bad as I'm making it out to be. It's not good for me, but again, it's not the worst. Kind of just jumping forward, Advanced Warfare, I was not impressed.
Advanced Movement Mechanics and Multiplayer Focus
00:38:52
Speaker
I liked the ideas of it at the beginning, minus the press F to pay respects because we all know that maybe.
00:38:57
Speaker
I like the start of it. I like the ideas in it of, you know, a militia slowly becoming the police of the world kind of thing. And then by the end of it, it just turned into, oh, by the way, Kevin Space is a bad guy, which, you know, it's like nowadays you don't need a spoiler warning for that. He's always going to be a bad guy.
00:39:16
Speaker
But, you know, back then it was like, sorry, back then. But you know what I mean? In the game, it was just this weird twist where it's like, oh, he's the bad guy and everything just became generic. Again, I do agree with Advance Warfare, Black Ops 3, and even Infinite Warfare, they had this obsession with
00:39:35
Speaker
advanced movement and I agree, I couldn't keep up either. I'm not a big fan of Titanfall either. I liked the game but I just can't keep up. I prefer the boots on the ground style and I hate saying boots on the ground style because that was a marketing for World War 2 with like boots on the ground. It's like wow, that's your actual marketing that we're not jumping about like ourselves, you know above your
00:39:58
Speaker
and it's like oh great. Again Black Ops 3 as I said I didn't like it, I thought it was too convoluted, it just it had such flimsy connections to the past titles, you know it was like oh Nova 6 and yeah this mention of Raul Menendez and you're like okay but what what else what else can the link to this game and it's like that's that's literally the only two links they have to the previous games. So I thought that was a shoddy
00:40:24
Speaker
cash in. Obviously, other than Black Ops 4, but let's face it, who played Black Ops 4? I played a little bit of it, no gonna lie. It is terrible. I really didn't enjoy it. So anyway, whose other dreams can I crush? Oh yeah, Infinite Warfare. See, this is the weird thing. I actually didn't mind in concept. I didn't mind Infinite Warfare. I liked the fact that they did try something semi-different. Like, obviously it's the same advanced movement and everything, but
00:40:49
Speaker
it was a little bit different. Like, obviously it's stupid, you know, Cawd in space, like, what are they gonna do? What annoyed me more about Infinite Warfare other than this? I liked the gameplay, I thought the gameplay was okay and I liked the fact you could pilot a ship and everything, but then again I'm a huge sci-fi nerd so take my
00:41:07
Speaker
Take my opinions with a pinch of salt. What I didn't like about it was the waste of potential, and I think this is something that is very apparent in this period of Call of Duty. It's the waste of potential. You and I could both sit here for hours and say what was good about these games, what was bad about them, but the end of the day will always come to a consensus that there's some nuggets of good in these games. For ghosts, the idea of a covert ops team trying to stop an invading force. It's a cool idea.
00:41:37
Speaker
I totally agree with you. Advanced Warfare, the start of it's really interesting, Black Ops 3 tried to go for a more philosophical approach and while the gameplay is fun, yeah, I do agree. It's a bit like, ugh. It's a bit complex, which I can't believe I'm saying that about Call of Duty game and I hate the fact it's made me
00:41:56
Speaker
that I had no idea what was going on because I get it, it jumps back and forth beyond two souls. See, you never thought I was going to make a David Cade reference there. That's two in one today. You have the Modern Warfare remaster, but we really can't code that in this honest.
00:42:12
Speaker
Infinite Warfare, they tried something different. The thing that was annoying was they said things like, oh, we've got Kit Harington as the main villain. A, he looked like PlayStation 1 Hagrid because he had the visor over him, so his face was all straight, just like, what the fuck? And then, yeah, they just wasted the potential because it's like, oh, we've got 31 ships. And then, oh, all but two of them got blown up. And I'm like, this isn't a good game.
00:42:41
Speaker
Again, it's not the worst. I had fun with it, but I wouldn't go back repeatedly to it. You know, I wouldn't go back repeatedly and be like, oh this is the best game ever, gee willikers mister. World War II, I do not appreciate whatsoever. I feel it was the most generic Band of Brothers I have ever
00:42:57
Speaker
It's not, again, it's not the worst one. And if you want my full opinion on it, or sorry, both of our full opinions, then you can check out our last Call of Duty episode where maybe we spent a bit more time than I cared in that, ranting on it. But again, that had nuggets of good and bad in it. It still took in historical elements into it and things. It's just a shame it was over the top and bombastic. It did have good levels. It did have liberation.
00:43:27
Speaker
and that's it. Yeah, I feel as if between those periods is where it has completely started to falter and it's tried to get itself back in its feet with different things. So I can like throw respect at it and say at least they're trying new things kind of. Would you say in this period they were trying to find their feet and trying to like get themselves back up and then even fitting? Or would you just say it was like an era of just complete mediocrity?
00:43:57
Speaker
Do you mean through advanced warfare and infinite warfare and things like that? Yeah. I don't know. I mean, to an extent.
00:44:05
Speaker
I agree. I think they were trying to like, it's kind of funny cause on one level I think they were coasting a bit. Cause I think it was that way of like, it was such an established series and that like these games always sell well. They are popular. There are people who like don't play that many games who will like, you know, things they'll buy a year or like FIFA or another sports game and Call of Duty. Like, you know, like there, it is a bankable series. I think they were coasting a bit. It's interesting because this almost feels like the kind of period to me where they were trying to start new series, like
00:44:35
Speaker
The Modern Warfare series has kind of come to an end and it kind of felt like they were like, all right, let's try and start a new one. So that's clearly, it clearly looked like Infinity Ward, who were like people who developed the Modern Warfare series were trying to start something new with ghosts. And I think as well with Infinite Warfare, they were kind of hoping these ones would catch on and then they could
00:44:53
Speaker
just like spin off from there and in a way it almost looked like Sledgehammer were trying to do the same thing with Advanced Warfare. I mean Advanced Warfare doesn't end on a cliffhanger but it kind of ends in a way where you could see there being more games in that series but for whatever reasons they decided not to continue either of those and obviously Treyarch just carried on making the Black Ops games and I feel like that that was the studio that maybe coasted the most in a way of
00:45:15
Speaker
that they make Black Ops games now. There's not really been an attempt for them to become up with a new idea, like a new series at all. And I do think they kind of coasted. And they were, I think, really the first two years, kind of really drift away from that campaign model. Their real focus went into multiplayer and zombies and things like that.
00:45:36
Speaker
Again, I think they probably were trying to find their feet on new ground, but I do think the series was coasting as well.
Zombies Mode Evolution and Critique
00:45:43
Speaker
It's just an awkward phase and I think that's why I personally don't think there's ever been a quote unquote bad Call of Duty game. Even the ones I don't like, I don't think they're bad, I just think they're kind of mediocre or low average.
00:45:54
Speaker
it just, this feels like an awkward phase to me. And it's just, it's the time that I just, I think that's why I kind of fell away from the series. You know, it just wasn't for me anymore. So what you're saying is, this was just Cola Juicy's gap year. Basically, yeah, this was, this was like after puberty, like, as you say, leaving school. I mean, you make a great point. This was the era where Cola Juicy started to, as you said, modern warfare was over, black ops should have been over long, long ago. Which, don't worry, I'll get to that.
00:46:20
Speaker
I'll get to your Cold War cuz I hate that game. Yeah, slight spoilers, but we'll get to that. You're right though, it's like they had avenues they could have gone down, but I think, see this is a weird thing because although they had avenues to go down, they have what? One, two, three... yeah about three games. Three separate games. They had Ghost Advance Warfare and Infinite Warfare that they could have taken like a different route down to establish like some kind of other franchise within itself and they just
00:46:48
Speaker
didn't. And that is quite bizarre because you know what college is like nowadays, they're just money-grubbing, you know what. Even back then I'm surprised that they never went down any of those avenues because for the longest time they always said, oh there's going to be a new Black Ops game and things. And I remember I got Black Ops 3 at Christmas and just being so thoroughly disappointed because you're right, the Black Ops series is the peak of coasting by a long shot. There's just nothing there.
00:47:16
Speaker
And it's a fun game. It's, you know, you've got your wall running, and your zoomsoms, and I can't believe I called it a zoomsom, but you know what I mean? You've got your wall running and things, and it has nothing to do with Black Ops. Even Black Ops 4, from what I read about it, it's just like, it's like Proto Warzone played a little bit of it because it was free in the PlayStation. It's not a fun game, at least for me. Maybe I should have played it when it came out, but the fact it doesn't have a campaign or anything
00:47:44
Speaker
But see before we go on to the state of college eating nowadays, can we just briefly touch on the progression of zombies in this era? Because in the golden era that we both relatively agreed on, zombies was a simple mode. It was a different time where kids were playing in the yard and the sun was shining. You talked to your neighbours and you could just lock yourself in an abandoned house and then shoot Nazi zombies.
00:48:10
Speaker
They climbed through the window. Black Ops as well. They kind of added on top. They had like perks and things. Everything that came after that was like a fever dream. Oh, for Advanced Warfare, we have to have skeletal zombies. For Black Ops 3, we have to have like a mini campaign, which was like just the regular campaign, wasn't it? Yeah, they just remixed up the order of the levels. Yeah, they just put zombies on it. It's like, what the hell?
00:48:37
Speaker
the actual hell this is just the campaign but the zombies infinite warfare didn't have zombies no i don't think it did i don't know quite what i because i don't know if you remember ghosts had a ghost had a thing called extinction which was like aliens oh yeah i remember what infinite warfare had um i actually can't remember
00:48:54
Speaker
Because I know going back even further, I know Modern Warfare 3 had survival mode, and Black Ops 2 had the tower defence mode. Imagine playing that. But I think they had zombies as well though, didn't they? What, Modern Warfare? No, Black Ops 2. Oh Black Ops 2, yeah dude, because that had the one where it was on a bus.
00:49:13
Speaker
Apparently Infinite Warfare did have zombies. Was this the one that had David Hasselhoff in it, which was like in an 80s arcade? Quite possibly. I think that must be the one. I have vague memories but I'm gonna admit, after Black Ops I really dropped off of the zombie series. I didn't try to dip my toes into it but just
00:49:32
Speaker
No. I don't know, like maybe I'm an old man Adam and feel free to call me out on this but like I'm old to my bones ache and I just want a simple zombie mode where I don't have to like buy like 50 power-ups. Yeah. Like you know like have to memorize roots and open the ether and talk about the dark gods and things like that.
00:49:50
Speaker
I have to admit, I have looked into the zombie mode and there are people who are genuine fans of the series. So whatever I'm saying here, I don't want to be like, oh, if you like this, you're dumb. Everyone enjoys their own different things. But come on, that is a bit complicated. It's just so different. I think it's just for us as well. It's so different from what we, quote unquote, grew up playing. Zombies was quite a simple horde mode. But we started and that's where it was. Maybe it's because that's what we played. We like it the best.
00:50:18
Speaker
I feel like I feel like the zombies became this trend where it was like, we're gonna get some high profile actors in and that almost became like the kind of selling point of it. So like, World War Two had David Tennant in there and like Ving Rhames. David Hasselhoff was yeah. Yeah, he was. David Hasselhoff was in Infinite Warfare Zombies. Jeff Goldblum was in Black Ops 3, Zombie Mode, like that became the trend for a while. It was like, you know, we're gonna get these, we're gonna get these actors in.
00:50:42
Speaker
you know, we're going to get these high profile actors in and we're going to kind of build a story around there. As you say, it became really objective based. It was like, you need to do this and this. It's not quite like the, you know, Hulk defender. It's not like the stand your ground, you know, like, you know, with the original ones. It's just it's just so far from it that like it became maybe you started playing those zombie like modes at that point. It's different. But like from what we started playing, it's just it's so convoluted. I just I
00:51:06
Speaker
I'm with you, I don't like it. Am I correct in saying that it was Black Ops that had the Galmero del Toro one? The one where it's like he's in the middle of the ice? Oh, that was George Romero. George Romero, sorry. Yeah, that was Black Ops one, I think. I think that's what kick-started this off like, because that had Sarah Michelle Geller in it as well, and then Danny Trejo, lots of people like that.
00:51:31
Speaker
Because if you think about it, I can't remember. I think it was... It must have been Black Ops 2, I'm thinking of, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Was it Black Ops 2 that had the advert where it was all the celebrities like Robert Downey Jr. and, you know, like all the high-profile actors and internet celebrities at the time advertising the game? I definitely remember a lot of, like, I can't remember at all, I'm tricking you in a hill, but I definitely remember it.
00:51:58
Speaker
advertising profile, as you say, yeah, it definitely was. They even had FPS Russia, who was like a big clue. Well, at the time, you know, for anyone listening in the future, which is like now, yeah, he used to be like, he used to be a high profile, like, gun channel on YouTube, I think. And then for some reason, what the black ops media, or just colleges in general, associated themselves with them.
00:52:20
Speaker
He's not in YouTube anymore, I don't know why, but I think it was something controversial that took him off. So you know what, go research that at your own discretion. Speaking of our own discretion, will we jump onto the final piece of this
Recent Titles: Modern Warfare 2019 and Cold War
00:52:33
Speaker
discussion? Yeah, where the series is now. We've got Modern Warfare which came out in 2019, all the way through to Vanguard in 2021. So with this trilogy of games, we've got the middle one which I'm not naming until it comes out.
00:52:48
Speaker
I'm not petty. Going back to tradition, would you like to give your opinions on this era? Yeah, so I'll go back a little bit as well because you've already touched on your feelings on World War Two. Oh, of course. I put it outside of the kind of nadir period that I talked about because as much as I don't think it's a great
00:53:09
Speaker
and for me it's one of the most disappointing ones because my expectations were probably too high for it. I still... I still... Any COD game set in World War II gets somebody to bump for me because that's my favourite period in COD games so hey, or it gets someone to bump and you know looking back at it like...
00:53:26
Speaker
Campaign's not great, but I do like parts of it and everything. I can't put it in there as light. I can't put it in the nadir because, like, you know, there is bits of it I like. So it kind of sits in that kind of middle ground bit. I never played Black Ops 4. It doesn't exist as far as I'm concerned. It's the one I jump over. There never was a card game in 2018, so I can't speak to it at all. Just no interest. I didn't have a campaign. I saw it was more
00:53:50
Speaker
I passed over that one. But yeah, so looking at the last three, 2019's Modern Warfare reboot, I was again, I didn't want to get too hyped about this one because I was really worried I was going to get burned again. I really like this game. Like I liked it at the time. I think I like it even more now. Looking back at it, it's probably one of my
00:54:08
Speaker
favourite Call of Duty games, it might be a top 5 one for me. Controversies aside, there are definitely ethical issues with that game, no doubt, and not to down
00:54:23
Speaker
play those at all but as like I had I really enjoyed the campaign I thought there were some excellent missions in it like the story is not the best but I still quite enjoyed the story I still was like I still wanted to see what was gonna happen and I kind of liked a lot of the characters in it I got back into the kind of multiplayer again because it kind of because there was no more of that like double jumping and ball running and all that stuff I felt more at home so like I kind of got more back into that I enjoyed me you and S-Banks played a lot of the spec ops
00:54:48
Speaker
Oh, that was a lot of fun. I had a lot of fun doing playing that with you guys. And yeah, like just looking back at this game, I thought like just the gameplay I thought was like some of the best I think of recent years, it just.
00:55:00
Speaker
And I just, I really like it. I really, really like it. And the more I think about it, the more I'm like, that was such a, that was such a fine entry for me. I'm really, really happy with that one. Go to Cold War. Again, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to set you off here again, but I quite like Cold War as well. I'm going to be honest. Okay. That's the end of the episode. Sorry, go on.
00:55:22
Speaker
I like, again, the campaign isn't like, it's not one of the greatest campaigns, but I like what they tried to do in it. I like that they added new things into it, like especially those side missions and putting puzzles in. That was stuff that I never thought a Call of Duty game would have, and I really liked it. It was a really great change of pace.
00:55:44
Speaker
a lot. I like that. I like the kind of, I like deductive puzzles like that. I just really enjoyed it. It gave you a reason to like replay some missions cause you're like, what can help me with these puzzles and stuff. And I like the kind of role playing elements they put in. So basically in cold war, for the most part you play is this kind of like this character called bell who, um, you can kind of decide a bit what their past is. And you can also like give them like special perks, which kind of relate to like, you know, you give them some kind of characteristic traits and you name them and like, you know, there's dialogue trees and stuff. And it's quite simple, but
00:56:14
Speaker
I really enjoyed that. I actually really enjoyed that role playing element, which again was something new in a Call of Duty game. It felt quite fresh. And to be honest, I like the levels. I don't think there's maybe a really standout. There's nothing akin to Old Gilly Darp or Liberation or anything like that. But I thought the missions were solid. I thought the gameplay was good again. I enjoyed it.
00:56:36
Speaker
The campaign, it has a bit of a, it has a kind of meh ending for me and I think it kind of undoes a lot of the good work that like the kind of the story you've been doing up until then. But still overall, I enjoyed it. Again, looking back at it, like I thought it was, I quite like it as an entry. The multiplayer, I didn't play too much in the multiplayer. Again, I don't know why I couldn't quite get into it.
00:56:56
Speaker
So I'll dock it a bit for that, but still again, you know, it was like, it was that kind of use that people are your phrase boots on the ground. So I kind of, I enjoyed that, but I never really go into it. I never, the zombies didn't click for me, but then the zombies doesn't click to me in a long time. So like, I'm not really going to hold
00:57:12
Speaker
I wouldn't put it in my top 10 color duties, but I still quite like it. So I was late to the Warzone party and it was only really like playing with Yuu and Green Shields and their Spanks that I kind of got into the Warzone. And it was a fun mode, it was something, it's probably one of the battle royale games I've enjoyed the most, like outside of Tetris 99, which I still think is the best.
00:57:31
Speaker
battle royale game outlay oh 10 out of 10 yeah without a doubt like it's probably one of my more favorite uh battle royale shooters so it was quite fun i mean i'm terrible i feel like i can kind of hold my own a bit in in cold g multiplayer i'm just terrible in
00:57:46
Speaker
just isn't there, so I'm a complete liability on a team, as you can evidence if you go back and check out the libraries of my actions. Yeah, it's a good mode, and obviously very popular, and kudos to them for making it free. That was a very surprising move from a company like Activision, but it's good. It's not my personal favorite thing ever, but yeah, I still think it's pretty good.
00:58:10
Speaker
So just give me a second to get my thesis up for this peonuda time. In the beginning, no I'm kidding, so modern warfare. I liked it but, and this is something we have discussed before, like I borrowed your copy of modern warfare
00:58:26
Speaker
to play. And although I like the campaign, I thought the campaign was better than the ones that came before it in the kind of, as we've dubbed it, the awkward phase period of Call of Duty. I thought it was a lot better than those. I thought the sound design, the gameplay just felt so fantastic. I loved playing online with you guys. You guys, of course, being S-Banks and yourself. I wish you got someone else in the room there.
00:58:53
Speaker
And yeah, I loved it. The campaign had one small issue with me, that of course being that I suffered a lot of glitches. So there was one weird glitch I had where you walk with this F-freedom fighter called Farrah through one of these camps and you're chatting the way to her.
00:59:12
Speaker
And I kid you not, she started doing the moonwalk on the spot in one part. I cannot, no matter how hard I tried shooting, you know, the ground around her, hitting her to move her out of place or to, you know, like eventually I had to look it up and I had to like throw grenades at the ground just to get her to like
00:59:31
Speaker
budge away. And I tried resetting this level like several times. It would not play ball. So that kind of soured my experience. I think the highlight of this was when I played the mission as, well, I played the mission about Farah as a child. And in that mission, you'll be very aware it's a very controversial mission where you have to run away from
00:59:50
Speaker
this big burly Russian as a child you have to grab sharp objects, you have to grab scissors and you have to stab them with the object and run away and then after you do that you escape with your brother. There was a glitch where the brother refused to move and of course being a child you don't have good needs to add.
01:00:10
Speaker
to move them. So I had to restart the entire level again, which is an uncomfortable level as it is, but the game making me crawl through dead bodies of children and stab a burly Russian as a child, it did not sit well with me and it really severed my experience. And it's a shame because it's a good campaign, but it's just a shame those kind of things happened.
01:00:34
Speaker
So I was just unlucky with that. Cold War, I am going to take the kid gloves off for this one. I think Cold War is just one of the laziest excuses for a Call of Duty game, and I do not understand how it got past the approval process. Reason being, again, it's got good nuggets of interesting things.
01:00:54
Speaker
As you were saying, he plays Belle, who is this agent with the, I don't know, the super secret. I don't know, the super secret A team, isn't it? Because you've got the CIA, you know, you've got the, I don't know, the Brady bunch of, like, special ops. You've got the CIA. You've got MI6. You've got, um, Sims. I don't know. Is he CIA? I don't know. Is he CIA? Right, OK. You know, I can never remember. He's just there.
01:01:19
Speaker
you're like, oh, we've got Woods, we've got Mason. That's the thing that annoyed me, not only the fact that they just pander. This is a pander game. This is just such a pandering game because they're like, oh, we've got Woods, we've got Mason, we've got Hudson, oh, we got the guy back. And it's like, this isn't a game about them. Why are they here? Why are they in this game? And it just feels like this kind of sleazy tactic to be like, oh, call of duty, Cold War, Black Ops. To kind of release those nostalgic feelings of
01:01:49
Speaker
Oh, look, this is a game you played when you were a child. Do you remember Mason from Black Ops? Do you remember Wood? Do you remember? And they're just there. There's no reason for them to be in the campaign. You could literally cut them out. And you might think, you know, I'm being too harsh on this game. You know, oh, give them a break that it came out during a global pandemic.
01:02:10
Speaker
This is Activision, right? This is like one of the richest companies in gaming. They can afford to not put out ecologies to one year, but they did it anyway. And not only did they do it that year, but they also put out Warzone at the same time. And apologies, I will get off my soapbox soon. But I think the most egregious thing for Cold War as a whole was the fact it ran like crap.
01:02:32
Speaker
I put it in my Xbox and the pre-rendered cutscenes would not load properly. The audio was playing and the cutscenes were moving and then they froze and then they kept moving. Do you want to know the last time that happened to me, Adam? Guess which game it was? Was it Modern Warfare? No, it was Sonic 06!
01:02:53
Speaker
Sonic 06, one of the most infamously rushed hellscapes of a game, and I had to really love that experience through Cold War. And I was like, is this a joke? Is this, like, actually? And again, as I said, don't get me wrong, really interesting nuggets of, like, interesting gameplay and things, and I do agree, I think, like, and correct me if I'm wrong, but was this game not meant to just be a Cold War game, but they just tagged Black Ops? I have heard that, but
01:03:22
Speaker
They may, I don't, I don't know that they may have done. One thing I'll say is this, this wasn't supposed to be Treyarch here to release a game. Like it was meant to be Sledgehammer. We're supposed to release a game in 2020, but Sledgehammer fell into internal turmoil. So like Activision kind of rushed Treyarch to like push their game forward. So I don't know whether some of these problems you can, not to excuse it, but you know, you can say that's a, it's a result of that, like them having to like push forward the development.
01:03:47
Speaker
It's kind of indicative of what college duty has become, hasn't it? I know I'm probably kind of preaching to the choir by saying, oh, why are they rushing and releasing a game every year? It just, obviously the problems were there with modern warfare.
01:04:04
Speaker
Yet somehow they still managed to retain their footing, almost. And although they were putting out mediocre games during the awkward phases, at least I would say they were competent. I would play through them, and although, you know, you've got the memes of Dad, you were a ghost, or, you know, whatever, infinite ad, I know it's not a memorable game. Okay, I'll throw that, yeah, I'll throw that bit to you. I don't know what your character said. Don't make something Mars is the best, I don't know.
01:04:33
Speaker
Yeah, Mars number one. See when you get shot and you die in the game, Mars number one. Mars rules, Earth rules, something like that. With a Z, you know. Exactly. Because Mars is cool or something. Anyway, Mike.
01:04:46
Speaker
But the game we could have had aside, yeah at least they were competently made well enough. At least the cutscenes played. At least at launch it was relatively okay. I mean maybe there was multiplayer imbalance but you're always gonna get that. With this game, this is the first time I genuinely felt cheated with a Call of Duty game.
01:05:05
Speaker
I mean, say what you will about the others. The other ones are very similar, but at least they had some kind of small spin to them. They was like jumping into different eras, and you know, the different abilities weren't great. They weren't fantastic, but at least there were something with this one that was just like, oh yeah, let's just rush this out the door.
01:05:25
Speaker
I think that hurt the game and I think it kind of shows like, I mean obviously Activision's been doing this for a long time but it just kind of punctuates the fact that they just don't care about this franchise. Even with like FIFA, one of the examples you brought up, they release a game every year and I think it's probably harder for them to like create something kind of new because obviously the game's exactly the same.
01:05:49
Speaker
And don't get me wrong, I'm not justifying FIFA being the same game and being like, oh, they can't do anything different. But compared to something like Call of Duty, Call of Duty has, to quote James Bond all the time in the world, all the kind of settings they can choose from history. For example, you and I were reading up in some of the articles before we started recording. There was meant to be a Call of Duty Rome game. There was supposed to be a game set in Roman times and they canned it. That would have been sick. Well, maybe.
01:06:18
Speaker
Like, that would have been really interesting, but again, like, Call of Duty is no longer in the hands of innovation and trying different things. I think Warzone kind of jumped into that, so apologies for, like, ranting on Cold War, but I feel as if
01:06:36
Speaker
Warzone might be what's called Call of Duty as
Warzone's Popularity and Flaws
01:06:40
Speaker
a whole. Now, I don't mean that in a bad way. Like, see, popularity-wise, I think popularity-wise, Call of Duty is still really popular. It's still at the height of its game and everything. Yeah, no pun intended, because it's free, which I do admit
01:06:54
Speaker
that is a cool thing from Activision. What really burned my biscuits, as it were, to use a nicer phrase, what really boiled my piss was the fact that it was overran with cheaters, tryhards and everything. It was a mess in some lobbies and
01:07:12
Speaker
I've even been at the receiving end of some aimbots and hackers. They did not implement a proper anti-cheat system until about, what, a year and a half later? Or about a year later? And they lorded it as like, oh, it's the best thing ever. It's fantastic. And you're like, this should have been on day one.
01:07:32
Speaker
It's like I'm not thanking you for like, do you know what that reminds me of? It's like going into someone's house with like muddy shoes, walking around their cream carpet, stamping their feet and everything and then when it's dinner time they take their shoes off and then come to the table and then you're looking at them looking at all this shit on your floor and they go what? I took my shoes off for dinner.
01:07:51
Speaker
It's like, you should have taken it off when you came in the house. And that's what I think is the issue here, that because Warzone is, not only is it so popular, but it's fallen into that trap of the BR crowd, you know, Battle Royale, and I don't like the way it's going. And I'm going to touch on that with Vanguard.
01:08:11
Speaker
But I just think that now that Vanguard's so popular, and obviously they're earning billions from Warzone, and Call of Duty as a whole, but you know, you've got your microtransactions, you've got your battle passes, even though it's a free game, they are making their money back.
01:08:26
Speaker
I'm not gonna lie, there's just so many bugs and issues with it. What I don't like about Warzone as well is just the fact there's no consistency. Like, for some reason they have this really weird thing where every so often they'll change up their game modes. I don't know if you've noticed this, but like, they'll change up their game modes so it's like, one day you could go in and you could be playing like a battle royale, like, duos mode.
01:08:46
Speaker
let's say. You're like, oh, I'm having so much fun. And then like the next week, they just take it away. And then it's replaced by like, I don't know, I don't know, teabag the enemy team for more money. And you're like, I don't want to play teabag the enemy team for more money. I want to play battle royale duos with my friends. And it's like, get your balls ready, kids, because we're going in deep. It's like, I don't want to play these like randomised modes. You know, I'm getting old, Adam. I'm getting old. I like my contestants.
01:09:12
Speaker
I don't like being jerked around and like oh you have to play, I don't know, whatever stupid mode they've got. Oh it's rebirth but you have to all walk backwards and it's like why? Who asked for this? Who asked for this? Again, I'm a bit of a hypocrite saying like oh it's the worst thing ever because I've played for the Let's Play series and on stream
01:09:32
Speaker
I have played it. I played hours of Warzone. I've had plenty of fun with it with friends and things. But it's not a game mode, I would say is my favourite. I wouldn't keep going back to it. The loading times are too long. My feet hurt.
01:09:47
Speaker
You know, and apologies for going off on that rant there, but I feel as if it's like an omen for things to come, and I think that's no more evident than with Vanguard.
Vanguard's Reception and Historical Accuracy
01:09:57
Speaker
But before I dive into why I hate Vanguard, what did you think of Vanguard? You ready for this? Oh no.
01:10:04
Speaker
Looking at the game as a whole, I like it. I've got to say, I like it. The campaign is nothing special. It is what a COD campaign is now. It's very heavy on very high quality cinematics. They look really great, but that's clearly where a lot of time and a lot of investment goes into. It's short, but again, that's what they kind of are now. The missions, I say, they're fairly good. I don't think there's like a standout one, but I don't think there's really any bad ones. Bar, there's one flying mission, which is the controls are terrible.
01:10:34
Speaker
but outside of that, it's a typical cod campaign. It's style over substance. I think if I had a big problem with the campaign, it's to deal with historical accuracy slash context, which is just an issue you brought up when we were talking about the World War II colleges a few weeks ago. These games are entertainment and I accept that. They should be entertainment first and foremost as opposed to trying to be educational and historical lessons.
01:11:00
Speaker
I just wish that like I think you get a very very like skewed and like unrealistic version of you of like World War two and what it how it was like, you know how it was for and like as well like the game lacks context for why you're in particular places and I like I compare so both call us I compare this to college you to so both called you to and Vanguard have Like mission set in Stalingrad during the battle with call G2, you know You're playing as you're playing is just like in like an average Soviet soldier
01:11:29
Speaker
before, like, before, like, your set of chunk of missions, a video plays and it kind of gives you a bit of context about what's happening, you know, like, why are the Germans attacking Stalingrad? Why is it so important for the Soviets to defend? Like, how's the battle, like, how's the course of the battle going? And then before each mission, there's, like, a diary entry from your soldier who writes a bit about, like, what's going on and what you're gonna do. So that gives you, that grounds you a bit and gives you some context for it. Vanguard has none of that at all. Like, you don't get any sense of why, like, why is, why are the Germans and Soviets fighting over Stalingrad? Like, why is it
01:11:58
Speaker
Like, how did the Soviets defeat the Germans in the battle? You don't get any of that, and it kind of gets boiled down to the character that you're playing as is the savior of Stalingrad, and the one who turns the tide. They are trying to set up this super team, so I kind of see from that level. That's my big problem, is that I think you're just getting such a skewed vision of the war.
01:12:18
Speaker
But outside of that, again, like the campaign is it is it's like, man, it's average. It is what it is like. It's kind of fun to blast through, I think. But then you can just kind of forget about it. Like you don't really need to retain it to memory. I've got to say the multiplayer, the multi I am surprised how much I really, really enjoy. Thank God it's multiplayer. I it's got its claws into me.
01:12:37
Speaker
It's got its hooks into me, and I am absolutely loving it. I don't know what it is, but it just feels like slipping back into a comfortable pair of shoes. For me, it reminds me of some of the older Call of Duty multiplayer. I just feel at home. Again, we're all boots in the ground jumping around. I recognize the weapon. I think the part is because I know a lot of the weapons, so I kind of know when I pick up a particular weapon, what the strengths are.
01:13:00
Speaker
you know so that I think that helps me I like the map I don't like I don't think there's any maps are like particularly amazing I'd say but I like them all there's none that I hate you know I like how they're laid out I think they're fun to play around and yeah I just like the way it plays I've not really run into any problems with it at all I've just been really really
01:13:16
Speaker
enjoying it and like that is why I like Vanguard because how much I've just got hooked into the multiplayer. There's some things like it's very focused on its operators which has been a thing that called you multiplayer has kind of like been focused on for the last couple of games now and I go back and forth on that. Like I don't quite know how I feel about it. I never hate it nor love it. I kind of fall in the middle with that.
01:13:37
Speaker
I've not played any of the zombies in Vanguard. I've heard differing opinions. I'll meet your friends who's very much into the zombies, didn't really care for it. But I have heard some people say that it's a really good entry point to zombies if you've never played it before, or if you've maybe been a bit too overwhelmed with what it's been before. Apparently, for some people, it's quite a good way to get into it. So I've heard different things. Zombies doesn't interest me, so I don't think I'm going to check it out, to be honest. But overall, I like Vanguard. I've got to be honest.
01:14:07
Speaker
Prepare your defenses again, Adam, because I'm going this.
01:14:11
Speaker
I'll get the drawbridge up. I would say and again this is the thing I hate being so negative about a series that like I fell in love with obviously all those years ago. I think this is by far one of the worst if not the worst that I have seen so far and I've got to tell you why in excruciating detail, no I'm kidding, I will say like this is definitely for me personally this is one of the worst Call of Duty's I think I've ever played. In terms of the multiplayer so get the multiplayer out the way first because I
01:14:39
Speaker
thought it was okay but literally i think i think it's okay like it's called multiplayer the one thing i don't like about it is i feel as if you die too fast and i know like people will be thinking oh satsu you're you're just bad at the game and you're right yeah get good hashtag satsu get good i feel as if like a couple of shots and that's it you're down which is ironic because going back to like evil infinite honest to god those spartans are like sponges
01:15:06
Speaker
You let M.T. a whole clip into them and they kind of yawn it off like, oh shit, what do I do? I feel as if he kind of died too quickly and I don't know if they're going to patch that or not. There were a lot of graphical glitches for me. For those of you who have played it, you'll know there's an MVP screen where it's like your character hits, just a random German soldier as your operator. It is really weird because I got one when I played the multiplayer and
01:15:33
Speaker
the Germans or whoever they were hitting wasn't there. They were just like hitting thin air, like they were clothes playing in the bedroom. I do think that's kind of unforgivable because there's graphical glitches and then there's a multi-billion dollar company that are taking money from people for something that clearly isn't finished on launch day and they're like,
01:15:54
Speaker
you know, there's all these excuses. This is something that's typical of gaming nowadays, where even Pokémon, like in the day of this recording, Pokémon, the remakes for Diamond and Peril came out, and Nintendo actually put out a release saying, oh, we've got a day one patch for it, and it's like, Jesus, it's no game ready on day one anymore, because you've got Battlefield 4 as well, you've got, not Battlefield 4, sorry, Battlefield 20 for
01:16:20
Speaker
which is about the... I think that's the amount of gigabytes you need in your hard drive these days. That's why they call it 2042. I think it's okay. What I will say about the multiplayer is I still need to play it with you, Adam, and I do need to play it with friends. I feel as if I would have a better experience if I did play it with friends, so I'm not rolling out entirely. I think it's okay, but if I played it with you guys, and I'm not just buttering you up for the carnage that's about to come,
01:16:47
Speaker
Genuinely, I feel as if I've played it with you guys, I would have a better time with it. Zombies, I didn't like. I played one thing of it. There's some weirds. I don't know. There's some story about super Nazis that they decide to team up with the devil, or not the devil, but some demon that raises the dead, and then you've got your own sassy demon sidekick in your head. It's dumb.
01:17:12
Speaker
it's just stupid. See this whole idea of having like a story mode in zombies? Like see for me, it's not for me. Like I honestly, maybe I'm an old man and as you said, maybe it's just because that's what we grew up with. But I remember reading the old Nazi zombie story and I was talking about the dark gods and the alternate dimensions and things. I thought this is just convoluted. This is a college music game. Did nobody get the memo this was a college music game?
01:17:36
Speaker
like, why don't you just have your own game? And that's what people have been saying for years. Get your own Call of Duty zombie game so you can explore these stories, these things. It would probably sell, so do it. But no, they keep tagging it on with a stupid storyline. So they said they were going to reboot it in, I think, Cold War. But then of course, as you know, Adam, as soon as we started playing that, it was like, welcome to the Dark Aether! And I was like, no!
01:18:01
Speaker
I don't want to go into the dark either. I want to just play zombies. And I was shooting zombies having fun with our mutual friend again. And I think you were playing at the time. And then all of a sudden this big beefy bodybuilder comes out of nowhere chucking green orbs at you. It's like what the
01:18:20
Speaker
It was just ridiculous. This was for Cold War. For the Vanguard one, it was terrible. It was just zombies running around Stalingrad and you've got the sassy sidekick like, oh, yeah, you've got to shoot them. Oh, you go. Yeah, yeah, I'm hungry. And I'm like, this is grim. It was hard to get through. It was really hard. And I know if you're playing with friends, maybe better experience again, but not for me. The campaign, I do not like the campaign.
01:18:49
Speaker
I thought it's by far one of the worst, and that's coming from someone who didn't like ghosts. I would rather play ghosts than this campaign again. And I will tell you why I really don't like ghosts. I'll tell you why I don't like Vanguard. Vanguard is an unfinished product.
01:19:04
Speaker
Again, we talked about the idea of historical accuracy and things like that. There's a lot of people who, you know, there's a huge debate about this. How many liberties can someone take with creative rights? Remember when we were talking about World War II?
01:19:21
Speaker
College of World War II and we're kind of focusing on that idea of when is it appropriate to introduce certain topics, when is it appropriate to make it bombastic and over the top and have trains going over you as you fight with the secret service and you're like, yo, where's that balance? My main point with this is it's not so much allies versus
01:19:46
Speaker
the Nazis or the Axis in this game, it's Super Nazis versus Super Allies. Like again, as you said, it's this super team that's been handpicked and the whole game basically focuses on these like flashback scenes and then at the very end we get like a scene that like brings it all together where you hunt down
01:20:08
Speaker
I'm going to butcher the names of these characters, so I apologise in advance, but you end up capturing the leader of the proposed fourth Reich, you know, as if the third one wasn't bad enough, and you end up meeting a grisly fate. Whether or not you decide to burn them alive, that doesn't matter, you know, the game chooses for you. So right off the bat, the game has chosen a path.
01:20:32
Speaker
Like in Black Ops 2 and some of the other entries, you know, you could have some kind of autonomy over your choices. But this game is just a linear experience. It's like you go from point A to point B. All of the missions are flashbacks. As you said, the hero of Stalingrad rears ahead. And I know a lot of these characters are based on, you know, real life people. But I feel as if even for me, this is too much.
01:20:57
Speaker
like a lot of the characters in this are just far too over the top, far too marvelically quippy, you know? Especially for like this kind of scenario because on the one hand I do agree it's like this is a video game, you have to have like a fun video game, but I feel as if they went too far in trying to make it more like a film and then the kind of gameplay was after the worst thing this game has done. And this is why I have such a gripe with it.
01:21:26
Speaker
Not only do they reuse the assets from World War II, which I know, I get it. It's a World War II game. They use the assets from College World War II. They're exactly the same.
Linking Games with Warzone and Franchise Fatigue
01:21:37
Speaker
I was actually messaging you when I was playing this game. I was like, Adam, have I bought the same game? Have I bought World War II? And you're like, no, you bought Vanguard. And I'm like, yeah, because I feel as if I'm playing the same game here.
01:21:47
Speaker
I think the worst thing about it, other than the length of the campaign, I think the worst part is it just feels like a prelude to what's going to come for Warzone. And that's kind of worrying me because there's a cutscene in the new Warzone update where it's like your team in Cold War go into this bunker and you meet the person responsible for the Vanguard team and he talks about how there's operations all over the world and everything. But all I hear is
01:22:15
Speaker
Oh yeah, in Season 1, we're gonna go to the Pacific. Season 2, we're gonna go to Argentina. You know, it's like it's setting up really barebones backstories just so you can buy the next Battle Pass for Warzone and then get... That's the
01:22:30
Speaker
because they pride themselves and honestly feel free to jump in Adam because apologies on being so negative in this but why would they base it on you know real-life characters if they're just gonna make them into superheroes like why bother focusing on the second world war in the first place if they're just gonna make an inglorious bastard's video game? Yeah it's a fair it's a fair point it's fair criticism and yeah like I can I hadn't really considered like the
01:22:56
Speaker
as you say, the Prelude to Warzone, which I think you're right to be honest with you guys, probably what this is. Again, I'm going to use this as a defence, but I understand that you don't accept this. No, go for it. Absolutely. No, go for it. Because I have been ranting for the last 10 minutes, so please, go ahead. It's kind of what Call of Duty is now. Yeah. Maybe I'm just weak-minded and I've just come to accept this. I
01:23:20
Speaker
just kind of it's I'm like okay this is this started with this is what modern warfare did as well you know I wasn't a fan of that but again that's cuz I quite enjoyed that I enjoyed the modern warfare campaign so I was disappointed to see it like being carried on into warzone I'm not as big a fan of this campaign really so I
01:23:39
Speaker
I don't really really want them to save material. I'm not really that interested. But again, it's just kind of what this series is now. And maybe I'm just really weak-willed and I've just accepted it and been like, well, you know, can't change it. It is what it is. Yeah, I accept your criticism. I think this campaign would have done better to just focus on one or two of these characters rather than it's like a team of six, which quickly gets
01:24:06
Speaker
to four. You got your four major characters. I think it would have been better to just focus on one or two characters, to be honest, would have been, especially for a short length, or lengthen the campaign if you want to do the four themes. But if not, just keep it with two, I think one or two. But yeah, like, I don't know. It just for me felt like a typical God campaign. I have to be honest. And like, that's why it didn't bother me. I've got one question for you. And I know you're not as big a fan of Modern Warfare 3, but like, would you still say you preferred Modern Warfare 3 to Vanguard?
01:24:34
Speaker
Oh, absolutely. 100%. Modern Warfare 3, we thought it was recycled a lot of stuff from Modern Warfare 2 and was basically kind of a reskin. So what is it about Vanguard's campaign that both Vanguard's campaign and Modern Warfare 3's campaign do that kind of asset stealing, but you know, asset reskinning, basically. What is it about Vanguard's campaign that compared to Modern Warfare 3's that really kind of irks you?
01:24:57
Speaker
mean, don't get me wrong, I do think it is terrible that they recycled a lot in Modern Warfare 3. I feel as if that was quite bad that they did that. On the other hand, that was the first time that they were having internal struggles at the company. I mean, maybe there was more and we just didn't know about it. So you could kind of, as you said, you could kind of blame it on
01:25:20
Speaker
that was the reason why they recycled so much, but I felt as if even despite all the assets stealing, at least they managed... it wasn't the best ending, but they still managed to tie a bow on the story that they were telling. You know, you felt kind of satisfied when you managed to fight your way up the tower and finally defeat Makarov and everything,
01:25:42
Speaker
Modern Warfare 2 ended in such a cliffhanger that everyone was kind of hungry, you know, for more. There was like this kind of jumping board that people could jump off of, like players could jump off of and say, okay, we've had our fellow Modern Warfare 2. So maybe by extension Modern Warfare 3 felt more like a DLC to 2. Like maybe that's underselling it. And there are bits of Modern Warfare 2 that I don't, sorry, Modern Warfare 3 that I don't like.
01:26:10
Speaker
With Vanguard, I completely see what you mean. What makes Vanguard worse? It's the fact that it just feels as if they did not care about the story, or just the game as a whole. Don't get me wrong, maybe they did. Maybe there are people in this studio that do care about this game. Maybe there are people who worked their heart and soul in this game.
01:26:31
Speaker
and you know they're listening to this podcast episode to which case I'm so sorry but I'm about to tear your baby apart. For Vanguard, I think it was because I played World War II before playing Vanguard and I noticed the similarities right off the bat. The thing is, it's 2021 and at least with Cold War again there was like divisions and there was struggles
01:26:52
Speaker
With that, you could kind of say, oh, that's the reason why it wasn't finished. I'm just getting, like, I'm not even angry at this point. Going back to what you were saying, I'm just disappointed. I'm disappointed in Call of Duty, churning out the same thing day in, day out, or rather year in, year out.
01:27:09
Speaker
And I get that. As you said, that's what Call of Duty has become. But when you're churning out, not only that, but you're using it on the basis of a fan fiction for the Second World War. I don't know. It just really sat uneasy with me when I was playing through it because I thought, OK, you know, this is Call of Duty. Whether or not, you know, Modern Warfare 3 was like a great story or not is a fictional story with the World War Two one for Vanguard.
01:27:38
Speaker
it just felt like a very poor, unfinished mod of World of War II. Honestly, could you imagine on the Xbox Live Store or the PlayStation Store loading it up for World of War II and it would be saying something like, get your DLC for World of War II now featured in Vanguard? It doesn't seem like a story that can stand up on its own, and that was the thing as well. Just the fact that they were just recycling the same assets, they just
01:28:07
Speaker
went through this bland story, having the goal to say, oh yeah, we're focusing on these heroes of the Second World War, a very real war that – obviously, I don't have to tell you that or anybody listening – how grave the Second World War was. But the fact that they use that as their premise and they're just saying, oh yeah, we've got this really deep, intricate campaign that lasts what, five hours?
01:28:34
Speaker
I mean, I could be wrong. Maybe it's longer, but I kind of said through it. The fact it's just a preload for Warzone, I think that's what hurts the most. Because at least, although games could be bad in the Call of Duty series, they stand on their own. I could rant for ages about ghosts.
01:28:53
Speaker
But the end of the day is its own isolated thing with Infinite Warfare. It's a guilty pleasure. I like it to an extent. I don't think it's great. But again, it's its own bubble. What Call of Duty has been doing since Modern Warfare is they've been linking them together. Like, I don't know if you've seen this start screen before. It is. It is a mess. You know, you've got Modern Warfare on the right, then you've got Warzone, then you've got Cold War, then you've got Vanguard. Like, what
01:29:20
Speaker
what is going on? They're trying to link them all together as some kind of, and I'm going to use it, I'm going to use it, a smorgasbord. It just feels as if they wanted to campaign out the way quickly so they could be like, oh no one cares about the campaign and everything, and so they put like a half-assed attempt into it.
01:29:41
Speaker
Maybe they didn't. Maybe there are people who genuinely believe in what they're doing. There's a lot of cutscenes in this game, as you pointed out. A lot of cutscenes. I did not appreciate that at all. They look beautiful, but that's the thing. If you're trying to create this big
01:29:57
Speaker
you know, again, Bombastic. If you're trying to create this big Bombastic story about heroes, like super heroes versus super Nazis, why are you making a video game? Why don't you just go ahead and make a movie, put it on Netflix? It just seems as if, again, it's a preload to Warzone, to which Warzone is going to be overrun, like, because they've got their Pacific map coming out soon. Can you imagine what that's going to look like
01:30:23
Speaker
Imagine the fresh-faced recruit, he's got his Sten gun or his MP40, he is ready to storm the beach, he's ready to grab a Type 100 and fight off the Horde and he looks to the trees and he sees the trees are rustling and he thinks, oh, who's going to come out? Is it going to be the Axis? Who's it going to be? Imagine your horror when you see the guy from Scream, Judge Dredd, Rambo, and Donnie Darko Bunny running out.
01:30:52
Speaker
Is this what it's gonna be like when they've got a Beaches of Normandy map in the future? And that's who you're up against. Don't get me wrong, I know it's a game, I know it's a game predominantly made for kids, even though the game's 18 plus is a game made for kids nowadays. And it was back when we were younger as well, but they weren't as overt about it as they are now. I don't know, it just didn't sit right with me. And I hope that makes sense, I hope I haven't contradicted myself.
01:31:19
Speaker
or went off in a total ramble there. I feel as if at least it wasn't egregious or as much because they did it once and you thought, okay, never again. And it's ironic because that is a theme of war in general, isn't it?
01:31:35
Speaker
you know like you always have wars in the world and you think okay this is the last time we're gonna mess up and then there's another war the year after and you're just like the same with college duty games it's like they never learn a lesson and i feel as if now they've got their cash cow with warzone that they're just gonna think okay we don't have to try anymore and that to me is just
01:31:54
Speaker
it is a damn shame. It's a damn shame that they're not innovating as much as they used to. I mean, other than, I want to twist this question back to you quickly, but see other than the command system, you know how all the characters have their different power-ups. Did you notice any gameplay differences beyond that from World War II?
01:32:15
Speaker
There's a couple of them. There's that ability to tactical sprint where you can get like a short, like extra, extra fast duration of sprint. You can run through some walls, some wooden walls. I mean, they're kind of like the, the character ability thing is the, is the big, I mean, I suppose that kind of to an extent resembles like in, in World War II, you had the squad, your squad had different abilities. Although it was more like, you know, getting extra ammo med kits or like the extra
01:32:42
Speaker
one character can crawl through vents in small spaces really fast and climb, another one can carry more explosives and grenades and things like that, another one can give orders, and what's the other one's focus ability isn't it? So yeah, I suppose that's a
01:32:57
Speaker
kind of variation on the squad command, the squad power-up thing in World War 2. Yeah, I see what you're saying, that they're not that different. I don't know, maybe this is me looking back, but what's the big difference between playing Black Ops and Modern Warfare 2? Did they play that radically different?
01:33:16
Speaker
We're being honest, like, is there that much of it? Call of Duty to me has always kind of been, the biggest difference I think now is if you look at like playing the game now compared to what it was like 2005-2006, I would say since 2007 up until now like it's kind of been very similar in a lot of ways which I mean
01:33:35
Speaker
They are all first-person shooters, and you can argue a lot of first-person shooters kind of play the same, even across different game series and stuff, but that's maybe the counterpoint I would suppose. I mean, there are definitely miniscule differences, depending on what the B button does.
01:33:50
Speaker
And that's a very, like, that's a very tame counterpoint, you know, like you did the Rolf and Dive and Black Ops and things. I feel as if maybe you could kind of split it up, like, with Advanced Warfare going through to Infinite Warfare and Black Ops 3, you have the wall running. That was their gimmick, you know. There's always a kind of gimmick you can group them together with, like, with the Modern Warfare series, it's just a sprint.
01:34:14
Speaker
Vanguard almost, and again, I'm not saying this as if Vanguard's the only one that's copied, because you're absolutely correct, there are the games out there that have copied, well, other Call of Duty games that have copied from this, but it seems as if it's taken more and more fierce sprint ability, and then it's just taken World War II's assets, and it's going to put this mishmash together, and again,
01:34:37
Speaker
Don't get me wrong, I do like that a bit more than warfare so I can't really say oh how dare you steal that because I'm thinking naturally that was a good point that I felt as if was severely lacking in Cold War. Like I think it was a joke you made when we played Halo Reach and we were asking why we couldn't duel the old weapons when you couldn't Halo 3 and you were saying oh it wasn't invented.
01:34:59
Speaker
That's almost what it felt like. Oh yeah, tactical sprint and sliding wasn't invented until 2019. I was like, oh, come on, Roy. I do see what you mean. Again, the games have copied one another. I will admit, the games have copied one another.
01:35:16
Speaker
I don't know. Maybe it is just me getting tired of the franchise doing it. It's like me turning around and going, now don't you do that again? It's like I'm going to do it anyway. I just feel as if it's like the preload to just releasing another game that's just going to
Future of Call of Duty and Audience Feedback
01:35:34
Speaker
be the same. It's going to be a shorter campaign. It's going to be even less features. It's going to be the story of
01:35:41
Speaker
I don't know, Jim the janitor who finds an AK-47 and you know there's going to be two missions of him fighting in, I don't know, Vietnam, let's say. And then it will be like, find out what happens next time in Warzone. Which is something I know we've touched on, but I really don't like that. The fact that it continues, you know, the story into Warzone.
01:36:01
Speaker
No, I totally agree with you, but on that point, apologies for the rambling again. Is there any final points you want to say about this series? I think it's funny looking at it as a whole, because I still think that Golden Age was, for me, 2005-2000.
01:36:20
Speaker
and I don't know and I don't maybe think Call of Duty will ever get back to that again I hope that's like that was the peak I don't think it'll ever be reached again I have to be honest though like just look at the last three games I have I have enjoyed all three of them and like I've enjoyed all three of them more than I enjoyed most of the entries in that what I called the awkward phase you know like 2012 to 2016 so I don't know like maybe again I am maybe I'm a bit optimistic about where it's going but again like maybe it's
01:36:49
Speaker
as Call of Duty is putting less focus on the campaign perhaps I'm doing the same as well and I'm looking now if the multiplayer hooks me the multiplayer for the next game hooks
01:37:02
Speaker
loyal to this franchise and I will keep buying installments. If that goes, if I start to lose my interest, you know, in the multiplayer and I don't like it as much and the campaigns remain what they are, I could see myself drifting away again like I did for a while. So it hangs in the balance. My fate with Call of Duty hangs in the balance and we'll see what's next to come. As I said, I apologise for being like a total negative Nancy in this one. You're just saying how you feel.
01:37:25
Speaker
Again, I don't want to be, you know, like the guy who's like, oh, cold with yous, you know. Basically, I'm just repeating what everyone's been saying for years about the franchise. This is the thing I said to you before we started. I feel as if, like, years ago I watched a film called Terminator 3, and I thought it was by far the worst, like, Terminator film of all time. You know, I thought it was terrible, it wasn't as good as the other ones. And that's how I feel kind of about some of the earlier entries that we dunked on, you know?
01:37:53
Speaker
Oh, they're terrible, they were the worst. But little did I know the worst was yet to come. And that was the same with like, you know, it just got worse with Advanced Warfare, Black Ops 3, you know, eventually on to Cold War as I ranted on about. It wasn't a good time.
01:38:09
Speaker
I am hopeful in a way that maybe things will improve, but I feel as if now that they know that Warzone is their cash cow, that they're just going to be focusing more on that. And even then, there's like a lot of things they really need to hone in on to actually make it a more enjoyable experience. But, I mean, millions of people love it anyway. Well, I'm assuming thousands.
01:38:29
Speaker
I was saying like millions of people play wars, you know, maybe hundreds of thousands, but you know what I mean? Hundreds of thousands of people are playing it, they're enjoying it, they're streaming. And I don't want to take that away from anyone and be like, oh, if you like this, you know, you're terrible. Because you're not absolute personal preference. And maybe, I don't know if it's just a sign of the times, the way gaming's evolving,
01:38:51
Speaker
or as I was maybe looking through nostalgic glasses towards like what the past was, although I'll admit the original Modern Warfare series is still best, hashtag fight me IRL. I'm not 100% hopeful after Cold War and Vanguard because I feel as if they're two entries that could have had stronger impacts
01:39:15
Speaker
It's the same issue I have with a company like Nintendo or EA where it's like I wouldn't be as harsh on them if they weren't like a multi-billion dollar company but it's the fact that every year and it's the reason because everyone buys them.
01:39:28
Speaker
every year and I don't know maybe that's my fault as well for going out and buying it and supporting it but you know it's trying to play it and hoping for something different and I get it it's like insanity to be you know what is it the same Far Cry 3 you know what's the definition of insanity and all of that but
01:39:46
Speaker
Yeah, I'm hoping it'll maybe get better with whatever the next entry is. I think it's rumoured, and I could be wrong, but I think it's rumoured to be Modern Warfare 2. I think that's what it's supposed to be. I mean, it should technically be Infinity Ward's year to release an entry, so... Because I don't know whether it's meant to be like a sequel to the remake, or it's like the multiplayer for Modern Warfare 2. Well, we'll see, won't we? We'll see. Definitely. And I'll stop on that point, but...
01:40:15
Speaker
But yeah, once again Adam, thank you so much for joining me on this discussion and apologies for the rants again. No, no, don't worry, I will go away and try and forget the mean things you said about ghosts. I'll go and sit in the corner with Riley and we'll both cry. Yeah, well you know what, we should really stream it sometime. Aww. You know, like, cos maybe I've been too harsh on it, like I haven't played
01:40:38
Speaker
ghosts in a good couple of years now. So yeah, I would be willing to go back and play it. You can understand it's genius. Exactly. And I need to read between the lines and the layers. And yeah, on that ghostly note, thank you all so so much for joining this episode of Chatsunami. Yeah, let us know what your favourite Call of Duty game is down below. As always, stay safe, stay awesome, and most importantly, stay hydrated.