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The Future of Compensation, AI, and Workforce Strategy with Sarah Kalogerakis
12 Plays20 days ago
In this episode of MustardHub Voices: Behind the Build, Curtis Forbes sits down with Sarah Kalogerakis, co-founder of Greatpoint HR, to explore how compensation strategy is being reshaped by real-time data, AI, and the changing expectations of today’s workforce.
Drawing on more than two decades in compensation technology, Sarah shares why traditional salary benchmarking models are no longer enough in a world where jobs, skills, and workforce dynamics are evolving faster than ever. She explains how companies can move beyond reactive compensation decisions and begin using contextual, predictive data to future-proof pay strategies and improve retention.
The conversation dives into the hidden costs of poor compensation planning, why SMBs often underestimate the long-term impact of inconsistent pay practices, and how outdated HR systems continue to hold organizations back. Sarah also discusses the rise of pay transparency, the growing importance of soft skills in compensation leadership, and why AI won’t replace great employees — but will amplify the people who learn how to use it effectively.
Curtis and Sarah also unpack the connection between compensation, engagement, and retention, challenging the idea that culture alone drives employee loyalty. From total rewards strategies to the future of skills-based pay, this episode offers practical insight for HR leaders, founders, and operators trying to build fairer, smarter, and more adaptive workplaces.
Whether you’re leading a growing SMB, managing compensation strategy, or trying to understand how AI will reshape the future of work, this conversation provides a thoughtful look at where workforce strategy is heading next.
About Sarah Kalogerakis:
Sarah is the Co-Founder of Greatpoint HR, a platform redefining compensation with continuous, real-time market signals. With over 20 years in compensation technology, she has built and scaled some of the industry’s most impactful data sets. Her work focuses on challenging outdated HR practices and unlocking the full potential of people data to drive fair, competitive, and more effective workplaces.
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast and Guest
00:00:05
Speaker
Welcome back to Mustard Hub Voices Behind the Build. In these episodes, I sit down with the people building, backing, and running better workplaces. I'm your host, Curtis Forbes, and my guest today is Sarah Kalagorakis. Sarah is the co-founder of Great Point h r a platform redefining compensation with continuous real-time market signals.
00:00:27
Speaker
With over 20 years in compensation technology, she's built and scaled some of the industry's most impactful data sets, Her work focuses on challenging outdated ah HR practices and unlocking the full potential of people data to drive fair, competitive, and more effective workplaces.
Journey into Compensation Technology
00:00:46
Speaker
Welcome to Behind the Build. Thanks for joining me, Sarah.
00:00:49
Speaker
Thanks for having me. I'm really excited to be here. Me too. and And the bio itself, I think, like... flashes signs of of of why you're here because we talk about a lot of this stuff. But before we before we dive into it, you've spent like two decades in compensation technology. So i have to know like what pulled you into this space because it's not the most obvious like starting point for a career.
00:01:17
Speaker
No, it's not. And when you put it like that, it Makes it sound even longer. Yes. Over two decades um in this space. And I, like most people that I meet in compensation, specifically compensation technology, it's not a path anybody, you know, necessarily sets out on. You don't kind of grow up being like, I really want to be in compensation when I grow up.
00:01:42
Speaker
Um, it's more that compensation tends to find you. And I think everybody has a, an interesting story as to how they got into
Building and Scaling Data Sets
00:01:50
Speaker
it. Um, and I'm no different. I, uh, was very actually serendipitous that I got a job right out of college, um, working at a software startup, um, that was building kind of one of the first compensation technology platforms. wow Um,
00:02:07
Speaker
Yeah. And I just I stayed with it. And ah that that one choice had sort of profound impact on my life and my personal and professional life and all kind of led up to and culminated in in starting Great Point HR. So, yeah.
00:02:25
Speaker
you ah So your bio talks about building and scaling some of the most impactful data sets in the industry. um t Tell me a little bit about what that means and and why what were what did you learn, I guess, from those builds that you carried with you into Greatpoint?
00:02:44
Speaker
Yeah, um definitely not, you know, the most necessarily exciting or popular topic. I don't pull it out at cocktail parties often, but i I love it. I really do. And and I found my way um working on data sets during my career. I conducted compensation surveys at one point. I helped launch them.
00:03:08
Speaker
a survey kind of business within a business. um And it taught me a lot just about data, what data actually captures, how you got to architect it, how um sort of legacy habits really impact data.
00:03:27
Speaker
um data which is why i think being in the space for 25 years and seeing the technology progression has been really fascinating because when i started we were printing and putting in three ring binders and shipping mailing results out and so if you think about and maybe you don't but but having to fit something on a page An eight by half and 11 page like really influences how you design a survey and architect it. And we're not we don't have to you know have those constraints now, but um changing changing habits is hard. So seeing that evolution and being able to sort of enact that change throughout my career has been really exciting.
Great Point HR's Market Pricing Platform
00:04:16
Speaker
I guess I never really thought about that. i it's it's It's lovely how now people can scroll and you're you're not bound by 11 inches. um so i'm I'm curious then, what what was the the moment or the frustration that made you decide to start Greenpoint instead of just continuing to build inside somebody else's platform?
00:04:37
Speaker
Well, um that gets a little... Spicy. I'm going to keep it, you know, on the up and up. um Basically, ah when you work for yourself, as you know,
00:04:56
Speaker
um you can build what you think needs to be built and um there's no excuses which is good or bad but you know you're not beholden to anybody else's roadmap anybody else's priorities anybody else's you know feeling as to what's the best decision for the company the product the clients um now i get to make those calls myself and so I love that. i do Walk me through, walk me through ah you know, Greenpoint, or excuse me, Graypoint. What does the platform do and who shows up on your doorstep needing it the most?
00:05:32
Speaker
Yeah, so at sort of the highest level, ah Great Point HR is a market pricing platform. We help um compensation teams and ah HR teams manage their compensation data. And usually that's a combination of external third-party survey data combined with their internal employee pay data. Great Point HR, we have our own proprietary data set that our clients can use as well.
00:05:56
Speaker
And that's sort of the basic approach activity, right? Companies need to determine how to pay their employees. They typically want to be fair and competitive, and they want to benchmark their pay practices against their peers.
Predicting Workforce Needs with Data
00:06:13
Speaker
That's sort of the the basic activity. What Great Point hr kind of brings to the table that I think is a little different is we really believe in um contextualizing compensation. So enabling companies and and comp professionals to not just see one sort of number or you know, a handful of numbers, but see all the context around how that number came to be. Sort of the the supply of labor influences how companies pay their employees, right? The demand for that skill or that role influences it. um you know, the macroeconomics influences. So there's tons of environmental influencers that aren't traditionally captured by saying, you know, what's the average pay yeah of a product manager?
00:07:04
Speaker
like God, of like my my brain's exploding with a million questions. One of the things that stood out on your site is is this idea of future proofing salaries. Um,
00:07:16
Speaker
I'm curious what that specifically kind of means in practice, right? I mean, you know, things are constantly changing, right? So how, how is that different from how comp has, I guess, been traditionally been done? So practically speaking, yeah. Maybe talk to me about future proofing salaries.
00:07:34
Speaker
Yeah. And I, and I admit, you know, that's a big, that's a big, bold claim. And nobody can predict the future, right? Nobody, nobody predicted COVID, you know, changing everyone's lives overnight. But the idea is that if we continuously provide this contextual data, so in terms of streaming um any so any impacts or influencers that are are going to be affecting employees' pay, and that could be organizational, and you know structural changes, team changers, hiring, firings, Bringing all of that context in, in addition to their traditional data sources of of what and companies pay their employees and what they're paying their internal employees, it allows the company to stop
00:08:23
Speaker
only being retroactive, right, only looking in the rearview mirror at pay, and getting a better understanding of what's happening now. And then by tracking this over time, it allows our models, right, to be trained and to start being more predictive. And so in in terms of future proofing, you know, that starts to think about what if we knew the skills that were going to be needed in the workforce, or in my particular company. you Maybe I have frontline worker needs or maybe I have AI engineering needs. um
00:09:00
Speaker
And so by capturing all the data, basically, we possibly can um in using it to train our models can get to a place where we are better at predicting the needs and the future needs of the company and the future supply of
Cost of Turnover and Compensation's Role
00:09:18
Speaker
the workforce. Are you going to find these skills? Where are you going to find them? And so that's kind of what that is talking about.
00:09:25
Speaker
I love that. i I love so many of the things on your website. I mean, the tagline, um negotiate less, hire more. ah Unpack that one for me. what What does that cost when companies get that wrong?
00:09:40
Speaker
Well, yeah, and that's like, I think maybe one of the most um variable or debated ah statistic out there, because you can probably find a study or a claim that an empty position or someone turning over because they're unhappy, whether it's because of their pay or something else can cost anywhere. you know, I've seen from $25,000 a year or one X to two X at employee salary. Right. So um the cost is a little bit variable, except I'll just say it's a lot.
00:10:15
Speaker
And it's a lot more than companies realize, especially at scale. Right. That's one employee i was talking about. um if you have empty seats or constant turnover in multiple, you know, dozens, hundreds of roles, it's going to cost you a lot. um Our particular person,
00:10:36
Speaker
Stance U.S. companies lost $500 billion dollars last year alone due to employee turnover. woof um So and obviously more goes into an employee staying or being hired into a company and staying and thriving than just compensation. ah But compensation is a really big piece of it.
00:10:55
Speaker
Well, when we first talked, you know, you you said something that kind of It stuck with me a little bit because it's never really been ah a way that I had thought about it. But it made a lot of sense. This idea of compensation is only half of the coin, right? that That pay and engagement are sort of two sides of the same coin. And the industry, you had you talked about how the industry is really building one side of it at a time.
00:11:24
Speaker
which fascinated me. to Talk to me a little bit more about about that. Give some context, I guess, and and then I can ask you some questions about that. Yeah, I mean, I think, and this isn't you know a judgment or or um you know trying to find blame or or fault to any anyone or any company, um but I think in terms of software and solutions, we do tend to focus on one side of that.
00:11:51
Speaker
um And then as a company, Companies, hiring managers, they are left trying to sort of combine the two sides, but I don't know how successful they are. And so what I mean by that is an employee retention. I think all companies are trying to increase retention. Not necessarily across the board. I think there are some roles that companies are okay with some type of turnover and, you know, maybe that's just their approach. But in general, companies want employees to stay at their, stay at their company. Right. And so there's a couple different levers they can pull, um, or they can, you know, um,
00:12:32
Speaker
whatever dials they can twist and turn to, to, to impact that compensation being a big one. But then there's this other intangible, right? These other harder things to measure, like, are they engaged? Do they have a good manager? Do they see a, you know, a good career path? um All of those other things. And so while I think, um,
00:12:56
Speaker
um there's different products out there, you know, to run engagement surveys, to measure ah performance reviews, and everyone does an annual survey. and And, you know, our product is the term helping determine that the pay is fair and competitive, but really being able to combine all of those things, um I think is the best way um to to give a clearer picture of the workforce, which is why i was so you know excited to to talk to you and what we guys are doing.
00:13:29
Speaker
i I think that's a smart way to think about it. you know I think that a lot of
SMB Pay Strategy Challenges
00:13:34
Speaker
retention conversations these days, they they tend to lead with culture and belonging and recognition and all that stuff. And But do you think from where you sit that maybe the industry sort of overcorrected away from pay?
00:13:54
Speaker
don't know. i think what I've seen happen, again, over a very long time is ha has become obviously a more acceptable thing to talk about. Yeah. um You know, you have TikTokers and influencers just asking people what they pay, which was unheard of. um And so i think it has invited...
00:14:21
Speaker
um I know, maybe different feelings about pay. or or it it it is still I believe it is still a primary driver, but it has definitely given way to the other things, like you mentioned, culture and belonging. It makes me think, one of the you know you one of the things you mentioned when we chatted, which I thought, which which frankly I agreed with, right? You know, pay is probably probably never gonna drop below being one of, if not the most important factor, like the single most important factor. But other things, like you're talking about, are sort of rising to meet it, maybe collectively, right? There might not be one single element that rivals it the same way, but collectively.
00:15:14
Speaker
And i guess what I'd be curious about is what what does that shift look like from inside the comp data that you actually see? Well, that's a great question. And because right now, traditional comp data, and this is something we're trying to solve for um eventually, ah it doesn't capture that.
00:15:36
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And so you're left kind of trying, there's a leap, right? When someone leaves a company or you have turnover, there's usually speculation.
00:15:49
Speaker
And I think, you know, if they were paid significantly less than the external market says they should be paid or significantly less than peers doing the same, you know, role in that company,
00:16:04
Speaker
You know, it's not a huge leap of faith to be like, well, they left for more money, but but you don't always know. And um it would have raised, have kept them maybe. Right. Right. For how long, right. Three months, six months, 12. So there is a lot of unknown again, because it's not tabular, you know, data points that you, it's as easy to track. Yeah.
00:16:30
Speaker
track this But this is what I love about your future-proofing concept because, right, and you talk about some of the the AI models and and how you can look and and do forward thinking because exactly what you're talking about, it's like when somebody they're like, that.
00:16:46
Speaker
you end up having to do, it's more, and you review all the data and you review all the information and you try to find out, right? You're looking ah retrospectively, right? You're you're you're doing a post-mortem when you could have been doing more predictive analysis, right? And and when you're when you're working with things in front of you, you have the ability to, you know,
00:17:09
Speaker
I guess, make the moves that you need to write in order to put put yourself in a position to succeed rather than, like I said, doing that postmortem after somebody's already left and trying to figure out why and then hope that yeah whatever you do moving forward doesn't cause the same problem. And so um I just think that this this is sort of a,
00:17:29
Speaker
is another just little backdoor into supporting, i guess, the way that you approach future-proofing these salaries so that maybe you don't have to do it, you know, that way. Yeah.
00:17:43
Speaker
Yeah, well, that you can also sort of zoom out a bit, right? So um I forget when, maybe 10 years ago. At some point, the industry sort of started using the concept of total rewards more, right? So you don't have a compensation team, you have a total rewards team. And while...
00:18:01
Speaker
Sometimes it's just semantics and there's not a ton of of meat behind it. Sometimes it really is meaningful and the company is really, truly trying to take a wider view and understand that it's not just compensation. It's the entire total rewards package that is, you know sort of the being exchanged between employer to employee. Like, yes, we are paying you.
00:18:27
Speaker
money to work here, but we're also providing, and now we get into all of the, you know, perks and benefits and training and all these other rewards, um, that I do think have become more prominent or playing a more prominent role.
00:18:44
Speaker
And all of this sort of ties into, to, there are some companies who are trying to proactively, retained retain employees um by giving them things they value. And, and and and you know, they it's not everybody, but there are people who are who are trying to be more proactive about, to your point, um going to the doctor instead of the coroner.
00:19:09
Speaker
um like I've never used that before, I'm totally going to steal it from you. Going to the doctor instead of the coroner. For...
00:19:21
Speaker
for for for maybe like an SMB leader listening right now, and I'm thinking somebody maybe who's like an owner or an operator or, you know, kind of somebody we might refer to as the HR of one. Yeah.
00:19:34
Speaker
Somebody who knows obviously the pay matters. Maybe they don't have a comp team or a total rewards team. They don't have the benchmarks. They're mostly guessing, right? Kind of what we alluded to earlier.
00:19:48
Speaker
um What do you think is the first thing that they're getting wrong? I mean, there's a million things they can do right, right? But sometimes storytelling on what doesn't land usually, um you know, makes a better podcast episode. But but it's also really, and i think, interesting to approach it from that angle, right? So for those folks, what do you feel like they're they're doing?
00:20:15
Speaker
What's that first thing that they're not getting right? So that's a great question. I think, unfortunately, and it's through no fault of their own, um you know, the HR of one and and and these SMB leaders, they're they're wearing so many hats and it's really hard to focus. So I think the the sort of most detrimental thing they can do is ignore compensation, ignore pay and just think, you know, Googling,
00:20:47
Speaker
getting a number, making an offer, and then never thinking about again is the answer. Because without fail, it's going to come back to bite you. as It works for one, it may work for two, but as your company grows and and employees come on, it it's just going to put you in, in, in such a hole um and really just behind the eight ball that with a little bit of planning, um I think you can really set yourself up for success. And that goes for pay, but also for sort of the structure of your, of your organization. And I, when I say that, I mean your job, your job titles and,
00:21:29
Speaker
I think you really just nailed a lot of it. I think the, i think that here we do talk, we talk a lot about that SMB squeeze, right? There's, there's tool fatigue, there's, there's managers wearing all those hats, right? There's, there's no dedicated ah HR function.
00:21:47
Speaker
um I think that from a comp lens, SMBs tend to underestimate a lot of about pay strategy. um would like your comments on that in a second, but like, I see very much, um, you know, them approaching pay reactively. Right.
00:22:10
Speaker
And somebody threatens to leave the counter, right. Somebody asked for a raise. They, what'd you say? They Google the number. Right. And, and the reality is, um it probably happens more frequently than we realize, if not most of the time. um I'm curious And maybe this is more like and anecdotally speaking, like what's that real cost of of running comp that way, right? If SMBs tend to underestimate it so much, they're doing things so reactively and just running on instinct without a real plan.
00:22:45
Speaker
How does that cost them in the long run? Yeah, um it's costly. ah be I will say. um And I think part of the challenge is that it's not necessarily costly right away. It's one of those things that kind of grows in the shadows. It kind of, you know, takes a while and it's not, it's not going to be till down the road that it you're going to sort of uncover
00:23:16
Speaker
Oh my gosh. It's like if you, every time you cleaned up your house, you just threw something in the closet, right? and Oh, it's clean. And you kept throwing it in the closet. At some point you're going to go and you're going to open that closet and it's going to be an avalanche of And that's a lot of what happens with compensation. It happens around your job titles. I see that the most frequently because when you're a startup, you're like, call yourself whatever you want. yeah you want to be the You want to be the VP of everything? Awesome. I'm paying you $35,000, Like you don't, you're... Because titles are free.
00:23:54
Speaker
Yeah. And so I see that a lot. And then try and re-title and re-level and bring order into that. And it's not just words anymore. It's people. Yeah. And if you want to take a VP title away from someone, and right it doesn't go well.
00:24:12
Speaker
i um I didn't even think about that. You know, you've said something that I think well while While we see it and we hear it at every SHRM conference and HR tech, you know there's a lot of people in HR aren't really ready to say out loud. And this is sort of pivoting to maybe like the redrawing of what work is and and inate and AI.
AI's Influence on Job Definitions
00:24:34
Speaker
But that that AI is essentially going to change the definition of jobs and how companies value the employees and what a worker even like is, i think.
00:24:45
Speaker
What you when you that? when you say that Well, what I mean is, and we're already seeing this today, the manager.
00:24:57
Speaker
So traditionally, Some companies would distinguish between a people manager and more of like, you know, a process manager. um But we're now seeing because of AI companies saying we don't need managers, pure managers anymore.
00:25:15
Speaker
And I think that's a huge mistake, to be honest. um But so that's a job that I think is being redefined. Um, entry level jobs, I think are, are going to be, um, again, in certain, um, any sort of technology or, or in office entry level jobs, right. im Um, not necessarily frontline workers yet.
00:25:38
Speaker
Um, but those, those jobs are going to be significantly changed. I think, um, you know, right now the fear is that companies aren't hiring them, um, you know, I think, ah so that definition of a job and what a job means, I think is changing more, meaning that the duties and responsibilities of these jobs are changing in scope um and changing because of AI. i think similarly, how you value an employee is changing. And I, am you know, I think skills-based pay is becoming a popular term again. It never really went away, but it kind of sees its,
00:26:18
Speaker
a rise and fall in popularity. And I think that's coming back. Um, cause if AI can do things, do you need, you know, humans to have that skill or how do you value it and now? Um, I think the biggest thing for me is I don't, I'm not sure we know yet.
00:26:36
Speaker
And I think there are some companies making a lot of big bets. Um, And then I think the for the most part, we're waiting to see how it all all plays out because it's just still changing so rapidly.
00:26:51
Speaker
he told her You told a story, which I think is sort of relevant here, right, about about somebody, someone in education whose job AI can probably do better than than they can, and and that the people who keep their jobs are really the ones who learn to engineer the systems that are doing things that work, which first of all, I wholeheartedly agree.
00:27:14
Speaker
um You know, I think ah so much of what I'm passionate about, um you know, I understand that as we move into the future of work, um, pure people managers may become obsolete. And so systems that can actually facilitate that connection, um that human connection are almost going to become more important, right. So that we can maintain that within our organizations. But, you know, inevitably, um
00:27:45
Speaker
there's going to be these situations where AI can do jobs better. And those that are ones that are keeping their jobs have learned to engineer those systems doing the work. So how does that shape what we even mean by job value and market rate?
00:28:03
Speaker
Maybe there aren't any answers. I don't know. I don't know if there are yet. that's I mean, the market rate in particular, I think, is one of the things people are kind of waiting waiting to see um because it's It's so unknown. AI is evolving so quickly, like what it's actually capable of.
00:28:23
Speaker
um You know, so I think there's definitely a lot of wait and see. um But I do think, you know, and this is isn't, you know, an original um thought, but I agree with it, is that the people who...
00:28:38
Speaker
AI is not coming for your job necessarily. The people who are going to come out on top are going to be the ones who learn how to harness the power of ai and use it to help them do their job better and more effectively and more efficiently. 100% agree.
00:28:56
Speaker
I think that's the, that's the, you know, power combo is somebody with experience, the lived experience, the knowledge, expertise using AI, uh, to just sort of, amplify that, uh,
00:29:13
Speaker
I think that, you know, it's collapsing some roles, it's creating others. i I fully understand how it's nearly impossible impossible to try and price something that just didn't even exist 18 months ago, two years ago, three years ago, whatever, right? and And it would even make me question or challenge whether or not that traditional survey model is even viable, right?
00:29:40
Speaker
You know, anymore. Yeah. Well, that's a whole other podcast episode. I could definitely talk a long time about that.
00:29:51
Speaker
I have a number of of feelings about that. i I do think the general concept of of aggregating data across multiple employers as to how what they pay is value. There's yeah absolute value in that.
00:30:13
Speaker
yeah You know, after that, I think, you know, the manner and method and structure of it is um probably could use some updating. you You described a lot of HR as dominated by slow adopters. That also is not a unique position. I feel like HR is typically slow to adopt, you know, new technology, new processes.
00:30:41
Speaker
i mean, where is that? caution justifies, right? Is it just hiding behind compliance and and PII as an excuse? Maybe. do Can you find the rationale?
00:30:54
Speaker
I mean, I don't, I really don't fault them. And I say that, again, not as necessarily a negative. I just think that's the way it's been for most ah most HR professionals. And I think that what you mentioned weighs in on that. They do have compliance and regulation and they are dealing with PII and sensitive information. And it's different than marketing, right? And sales where they can try out a new AI, you know, CRM engine or
00:31:28
Speaker
you know, easily. And if it goes wrong, like, all right, well, it didn't work out. um With hr you know, they have to be more cautious. So um I think the other piece of that is that some AR technology that what they're using is just brittle and it's not flexible and changing a job code or, you know, a a pay range may seem like a great idea to be, we'll go to job based ranges. This is, you know, a popular practice ah um in technology companies, but if your 25 year old system doesn't handle that, you know, can't do it. So I think it's a combination of things that just doesn't set ah HR up for
00:32:17
Speaker
success As a founder, then how do you, how do you build something innovative and adoptive? How do you avoid being too early? And I'm, I'm taking, I'm taking notes here. So yeah what what are these secrets?
00:32:32
Speaker
Well, um one is like lessons learned. I have been too early with an innovative idea in the past. um And, you know, that was a great learning experience. um I think honestly,
00:32:47
Speaker
And we'll see, you know, a little bit TBD how this plays out. But if you can meet people where they are and bring them along on the, you know, innovative journey or the change management or whatever it needs. Right. So if you build a product that's at point C and your users are at point A, walking up to them and being like, hey, come join us at point C. It's hard.
00:33:16
Speaker
meeting them at point a saying, come on, come along for the ride. It's going to be great. You're going to love it over at point C and sort of shepherding them along and, and supporting them along the way at the interim point B. Um, that's kind of what I'm betting on. Um, we'll see. I'm curious in your mind, what you, what do you feel like comes first and,
00:33:42
Speaker
i and I'm going to go somewhere interesting with this. um but But you feel like behavior change and then the software catches up?
00:33:53
Speaker
Or do you feel like software unlocks that new behavior? I think that is the modern day chicken or egg. The modern day chicken and egg. Well, okay, here's here's sort of a bigger swing of this question.
00:34:09
Speaker
um OpenAI i recently put out a piece on on benefits portability, right? It's real conversation happening about decoupling benefits and and and insurance, right, from the individual employer.
00:34:22
Speaker
especially as more of the workforce is moving towards fractional and contractor and gig work. And from a compensation lens, what happens to total rewards if that decoupling actually goes through?
00:34:36
Speaker
Well, don't actually know how that would play out in practice. I do know from ah like a software perspective, most software platforms are not set up.
00:34:50
Speaker
to handle those because they were edge cases. So I know a lot of just from history of working with clients and supporting them, their implementation, they don't put fractional consultants, ah ah you know, union, there's entire segments of their population that they won't necessarily load into some of these HR tech platforms solely because they can't handle them. i mean, healthcare care is historically,
00:35:21
Speaker
a challenge um because the software wasn't built to handle it. So i think to your point, if more people start doing it, some software will have to come and meet the demand for it, but sort of a critical mass. Yeah, I can imagine.
Future Predictions for Compensation and AI
00:35:39
Speaker
So, so future thinking predictions on where compensation goes in the next five years, what changes, what breaks?
00:35:48
Speaker
Well, so it's funny because, I kind of have some of the same predictions that I've had over the years and they haven't come to fruition yet, but maybe this, these are the next five years. This is the year it's going happen. What are they? It could Um, I think, or I hope, I guess this concept of real time data, um, becomes actually,
00:36:16
Speaker
ah real. Um, and more concrete, more robust, I guess, um because I think that is really key. Having up-to-date data on your employees and on the market is really important um for companies making very impactful decisions around compensation. I think um AI will absolutely ah impact the profession.
00:36:46
Speaker
It already is. TBD on exactly how, um you know, again, pay is one of those things like, Hey, I can't get it wrong.
00:36:57
Speaker
Like you can't send out, you know, a pay stub or a promotion letter that's wrong. And yeah like that's, that's hard. um I think, I don't know. I think those are the big things. I think, i mean, those are good ones.
00:37:15
Speaker
I think companies get and this is something that, um you know, I am really excited to see and really do hope happens is that we've already seen it. Right. This pay transparency motion. There's legislations in half of the states. I think at this point, a big directive coming down in the EU um that will and ah inevitably impact ah the states.
00:37:37
Speaker
So I think there'll be more and more companies actively looking to be transparent about pay and not just to check the box and, you know, be compliant, but to to really open the doors to have those conversations with the employees and really help employees understand this is how, you know, we determine pay here and this is what goes into it. And here's where you are.
00:38:03
Speaker
you think that there's you know he something comp leaders need to get good at now that maybe they're not good at yet? Or I'm curious if you think something becomes more maybe more important about how we pay people even as AI is starting to handle more of the work itself?
00:38:20
Speaker
I think, and this is not only in compensation, I think in general, getting good at what used to be the soft skills, right? Getting good at communicating and educating. um i was recently speaking to a client who, again, fell into compensation, but their background was in PR, right?
00:38:43
Speaker
And she mentioned it has been incredibly helpful because comp used to be thought of this back office data, you know, be good at math, be good at data. You know, um you don't have much people interaction required. And now it's a lot of it is kind of marketing and and in employee relations around pay and communicating pay and really kind of selling a change, right? Shepherding that change, change management throughout the company.
00:39:15
Speaker
um So I think those soft skills will be really important.
Advice for Small Business Leaders
00:39:18
Speaker
So one thing I always like to to wrap up with, if a business leader were were to come to you and, you know, maybe wants to,
00:39:29
Speaker
They want to pay their people fairly, competitively, you know, in a way that actually keeps them. But maybe they don't have the team, the comp team, you know, maybe they don't have that ah HR bench. They don't have time to become one.
00:39:41
Speaker
um What's the single most important piece of advice you give them? If you're on an elevator and you just had a minute before the door is open and they walk right out of there, what is it that you're going to tell them? I guess I'd say don't give up.
00:39:53
Speaker
Like it, it's worth fighting for and do the little, do the little things. You don't have a whole team. You don't, you know, you don't necessarily need to do a little bit every day, every week, keep, you know, kind of sounding that drum internally, that this is important and this will have long lasting impact.
00:40:13
Speaker
And, um, you know, gather your, your band. The little the little things matter. Thank you so much, Sarah. I really appreciate you joining me today. This was fun.
00:40:24
Speaker
Yeah, thanks for having me. It was a blast. And thanks to all you watching and listening to Mustard Hub Voices Behind the Build. Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss the next episode.
00:40:35
Speaker
Please visit mustardhub.com to learn more about Mustard Hub and discover how we help companies become destinations for workplace happiness and turn culture into a competitive edge. Until next time.