Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Jeff Mullins on Why the Companies That Can Move Fast Never Have the Capital and the Ones With Capital Can Barely Move
13 Plays13 days ago
In this episode of MustardHub Voices: Behind the Build, Curtis Forbes sits down with Jeff Mullins, Chief Marketing Officer at PHENYX, to talk about what actually separates the companies that execute from the ones that chase silver bullets and wonder why nothing sticks.
Jeff has spent more than two decades working across marketing, sales, and product development, and the last eight years running a full-service agency that serves clients from oil and gas to MedSpa to manufacturing. That breadth gives him a view most marketers never get: he sees the same patterns play out across entirely different industries, and he is not shy about naming them.
The conversation covers why AI is the world's greatest combine harvester in the hands of someone who has never farmed, what death by committee is quietly costing large organizations, and why the companies that can move fast rarely have the capital to compete while the ones with the capital can barely move at all. Jeff also gets into the generational shift he is watching in real time inside his own team, where execution skills are eroding and the willingness to push through a hard problem before calling for help is becoming genuinely rare.
Underneath all of it runs the philosophy captured in the phrase Jeff lives by: never trust a leader without a limp. It is a conviction that the most valuable thing a leader brings to the room is not a clean track record but the pattern recognition that only comes from having been in the foxhole, made the wrong call, and figured out how to come back from it.
About the Guest
Jeff Mullins is a marketing leader with more than two decades of experience across marketing, sales, and product development. As Chief Marketing Officer at PHENYX, a full-service agency, he has spent over eight years helping organizations sharpen their marketing strategy and turn it into real growth. His work centers on building initiatives that strengthen brand presence and drive engagement, often for companies navigating complex, multi-level go-to-market challenges. Across a 22-plus-year career spanning a range of industries, Jeff has managed marketing budgets and aligned strategy with business objectives. He is known for guiding companies through difficult problems and pushing past surface-level fixes toward solutions that actually get executed. Outside of work, Jeff is a devoted father, a committed fitness enthusiast, and a believer in comeback stories, captured by a phrase he keeps close: never trust a leader without a limp.
Recommended
Transcript
00:00:05
Speaker
Hello again, everyone.
Introduction of Jeff Mullins
00:00:06
Speaker
It's another installment of Mustard Hub Voices behind the build. In these episodes, I sit down with the people building, backing, and running better workplaces. I'm your host, Curtis Forbes, and my guest today is Jeff Mullins. Jeff's a marketing leader with more than two decades of experience across marketing, sales, and product development. As chief marketing officer at Phoenix, a full-service agency, he has spent over eight years helping organizations sharpen their marketing strategy and turn it into real growth.
Building Brand and Engagement Strategies
00:00:34
Speaker
His work centers around building initiatives that strengthen brand presence and drive engagement, often for companies navigating complex, multi-level go-to-market challenges. Across a 22-plus year career spanning a range of industries, Jeff has managed marketing budgets and aligned strategy with business objectives. He's known for guiding companies through difficult problems and pushing past surface-level fixes towards solutions that actually get executed.
Personal Life and Leadership Philosophy
00:01:02
Speaker
Outside of work, Jeff's a devoted father, a committed fitness enthusiast, and a believer in comeback stories captured by a phrase he keeps close. Never trust a leader without a limp. Welcome to Behind the Build, Jeff.
Journey from Sales to Marketing
00:01:15
Speaker
thanks for Thanks for joining me. Hey, thanks for having me today. Appreciate it.
00:01:19
Speaker
i ah I really love that saying. i I've used it since you introduced me to it, by the way. Right um and And we're going to have to dig in a little bit to ah to where this comes from. So let's ah let's just do that right into the deep end. you know Before Phoenix, before the titles, you know how did you find your way into this space in the first place?
00:01:47
Speaker
Yeah, good question. um I think most of my life has been a journey and I think one step leads to the next. Yeah. So, you know, growing up as a single kid with a, know, one kid and a single, single mom home, I kind of had to stay busy right in the eighties.
00:02:03
Speaker
I lived in Austin and, uh, I realized I didn't have TV. It wasn't really into radio and, you know, cassettes and stuff like that back then music. So I, uh, I was always outside doing, figuring something out, building a tree house, you know, just running through the Hills being a kid. And I think that, um,
00:02:19
Speaker
the The lessons I learned back then to kind of either figure out something or, you know, have a good time with just the things that are around me ah made me pretty resourceful. And I think that that just carried me into a a sales career later in life and then then now into marketing, which, by the way, um we obviously know they're very two different industries. yeah They need to work handin hand in hand, but they are two very different industries. Yeah. um Thank you, by the way, for for validating me, and but slightly dating yourself, though, ah you know with the with with the references. trying trying to Trying to get my kids to have an 80s summer, and it's not working so
The Birth of Phoenix and Its Mission
00:03:02
Speaker
well. All right, Phoenix.
00:03:05
Speaker
Even the name... carries a story, right? So, I mean, from your perspective, first of all, what what does that name represent? What does it say, i guess, about how you've built the company?
00:03:22
Speaker
Yeah. So I'm the kind of person enjoys a challenge. I don't know. I don't want to do it the hard way. We talked about this a little earlier about doing things, doing the hard things or doing it the hard way. um Somehow I'm motivated by things that I like change and I like doing things that are hard.
00:03:38
Speaker
um i like to find the better way to do them do the hard things um but phoenix came from a place where i was in an i was in an industry uh very successful industry and managed to do kind of everything i wanted to in that industry i was a manufacturer there was a manufacturing rep wholesale and then was also retail sales rep for that company and then went out opened my own location like a franchise um That goes back to 2008 through 2009 through the darkest, you know great, the great recession we had, you know, and then 2015 happens and nothing was hard anymore.
00:04:17
Speaker
I needed, I got kind of bored with it, you know? And so, um, my brother-in-law owned a marketing, a direct marketing firm and in Dallas, Texas, and reached out and said, Hey, can you help me build this thing up? And he was kind of flatlining, you know, wasn't bringing any new, new new clients in and,
00:04:34
Speaker
um worked with for a couple years grew that business with him uh 300 growth in three years um and then i wanted to do more marketing i go back to when i was uh in my sales career um i i ended up working with other marketing firms and agencies and i just had a lot of you know revisions and drafts between them. And I really didn't like the process.
00:05:02
Speaker
It was very, very disconnected. It was kind of, it was kind of like, it was too segmented and kind of um in my mind, um we'd work on certain projects, right? Project oriented campaigns.
00:05:15
Speaker
Okay. We have a website. We're just gonna build the website. Oh, no. Now we need a brochure. We'll work on the brochure and nothing was seamless. It was very, very fragmented. And I really didn't like that. I found myself repeating myself a lot, educating these marketing firms and then interviewing them and all of that. And then, then I go up to my own company in 2008.
00:05:35
Speaker
And every time i picked up the phone, it was like a three to $5,000 ask. Hey, I need, you know, back then you had business cards and letterhead and I need this. Well, about you know, three, four or five grand. Um, I need a website update.
00:05:46
Speaker
You know, all these things just kind of kept, kept, kept coming at me pretty quick and it was expensive. And so, uh, as I, as I wanted to do more full service marketing from my brother-in-law's company, I realized that there's an opportunity to take what I didn't like about working with marketing firms and do it different.
00:06:06
Speaker
Now we have Phoenix. And so Phoenix was really, ah was birthed from a place where it was a really challenging, you know, um, i was I was addressing a challenge that I think the industry suffered from.
00:06:17
Speaker
And i wanted to make it more seamless. I wanted to provide more value, more ideas. um our Our why statement at Phoenix is we push the boundaries that elevate those around us.
00:06:29
Speaker
Right. So um we're not going to be offensive, but there's a lot of times companies kind of get into a complacent. This is the way we've always done it kind attitude. Yeah.
00:06:41
Speaker
And I'm like, yeah, but what got you here won't get you to the next hurdle. Yeah. And that's true. I like that. We're not going to offensive, but I'm going to push you. Does that make it into your pitch deck? I'm curious. Oh, it does. It does. It does all the time. I love that. Yeah. You hinted that the road to where you are now wasn't really a straight line, you know, and, and that there is a real comebacks, you know, in your story.
Reinvention and Name Significance
00:07:11
Speaker
So I, I, I'll hand the floor to you. I mean, how much of that journey kind of shaped the leader and the operator that you are today?
00:07:20
Speaker
Um, well, it kind of, a lot. I mean, um, ironically, i work, I work in business really close with my ex-wife. Um,
00:07:31
Speaker
We were married for 24 years, been divorced for two now, and we have a really good relationship. We're friends. We, um, we have two great kids, so we still go parent well, but she said this about me.
00:07:41
Speaker
She said, you're always quick to say you're sorry and recognize your mistake. And you're pretty quick on repairing that mistake. So I think that in life and in business and my not so straight linear path and career, um, I learned from my I learned from my mistakes.
00:07:58
Speaker
Um, Yes, I can be prideful at times. We all can be. But to my core, I think I'm always looking for how I can improve myself. um And that goes from personal to to to business to just really every aspect every aspect of my of my life. And, um you know, once I wasn't challenged in the previous career, um that career actually got burned down for me.
00:08:24
Speaker
And we'll say that that's a podcast all by itself. But as I left that career, um i had to reinvent myself. and And that's why Phoenix is named Phoenix for two reasons.
00:08:37
Speaker
Number one, the co-founder who started the company with me, CJ, he is a amazing person. He actually has a daughter named Phoenix. So I think that kind of planted the Phoenix idea in our head.
00:08:51
Speaker
And then as I was, you know, rebuilding a new career and doing a new path and kind of you know, learning, I guess, trying to figure out what I want to do when I grow up kind of thing. Um, Phoenix just made sense.
00:09:03
Speaker
It like so much to us with his daughter and then my career path. And yeah, it, it, uh, it has, it has a lot of meaning for us. We didn't just name it like g and L agency or something, you know, yeah and it has real purpose behind it.
00:09:17
Speaker
Even in the, um, even in the way you described, you know, you're, you, you, you mentioned that sort of like that, that, that previous, career or previous stint sort of burned down in Phoenix, right? It rose from the ashes, so to speak. So I think the imagery, I think, really lends itself to how you describe that experience.
Learning from Experienced Leaders
00:09:38
Speaker
And then you use this line, never trust a leader without a limp. So unpack that for What does it mean to you?
00:09:48
Speaker
why does it matter when you're advising other businesses? Maybe more importantly. Yeah. Good question. First off, there's a famous book called Never Trust Leader Without a Limp. um It's a good book.
00:10:00
Speaker
um But the statement of never trust leader without a limp means so much more than just the title. um If you're going to go off from boot camp and join the military and you're going to be trained in your special operations, whatever you're going to do, um would you rather have a savvy vet who's served a couple tours kind of train you the right way and how to respond and keep calm and stressful stressful situations?
00:10:27
Speaker
Or would you rather have this perfectly modeled GQ, no scratches, no scars? Would you rather that guy tell you how to get through battle? um Because I don't think anyone comes out of battle in skating.
00:10:39
Speaker
And I think scars um tell a story. And I think that with that savvy vet that has maybe a little bit slower walk, maybe a little more of a limp,
00:10:50
Speaker
um i know he's been in the foxhole a time or two and that's the kind of guy that or girl that i want leading in me answering my questions teaching me what i don't know and i think it's about um ironically i broke my ankle six years ago it's been operated on and had it replaced last march i have a very noticeable limp so It's a physical, ah literal ah thing for me because I walk with a limp now. I'm 45. I'm in great shape. But the the leader without a limp, um man, I mean, it just it means so much. There's so much to unpack with that statement.
00:11:30
Speaker
Yeah. and i I think that as far as I look at how I look at who I want to take advice from or criticism from, um it better be somebody who's been on the block a time or two. It'll be important.
00:11:45
Speaker
I want to come back to that in a little bit, you know, when we when we start talking about the younger generation, you know, and and what you've noticed, right, in in some of their habits, I think, and and maybe what we can look forward to over the next few years.
Evolution of Phoenix Agency
00:12:02
Speaker
so but But first, let's talk about Phoenix.
00:12:05
Speaker
yeah what is a full What does a full service agency actually do day-to-day for the companies that that you're serving? Yeah, good question. When we started Phoenix, we were only going to be video production.
00:12:16
Speaker
And oh that's really the first four months. That's all we did. And I didn't realize that the worst, our actual name is Phoenix media LLC. That's why the PNM or our logo looks like a PNM.
00:12:30
Speaker
But after like four months of, you know, putting out video content, this goes back to 2018, 2019, all of our clients weren't using it. They didn't have access to their website. They didn't even know where their website was hosted. They didn't know what platform it was built on. um they They may not even have access their LinkedIn channel or social media at all.
00:12:51
Speaker
like it's like i was It was just a nightmare. So then I thought, well, if we can do video well, which is pretty tough, and this is way before AI is even here, um if we can do this well, if we add on these additional services and become more of a full-service agency,
00:13:09
Speaker
number one um i can i can seamlessly bring all of their their campaigns and their strategies together and then i could align that with all of their print digital media everything right uh production and then we moved into a full service and as we did the full service um we started building websites and on graphic design um seo social media uh content writing that's back all pre-ai everyone now is a content writer yeah they have ai slop but um
00:13:45
Speaker
Yeah, so we're full service agency. And what we do is um I took a step further and I basically I take a client, put all of their next 12 month needs into a fishbowl.
00:13:55
Speaker
And whether it's a new site or a redesign or this or that, or I need filming you know six times this year, put all that in a fishbowl. And then I charge you a monthly fee and a subscription based model.
00:14:06
Speaker
And they can get you know five to six professionals on their team for the whole year. less than it costs one salary and you know we as a team don't get sick we don't go on vacation yeah right right individually we do but there's always someone here to help out so um and it's a fixed cost to them so it's pretty easy i love uh i love that i mean that's such a smart model what kind of clients typically land on your doorstep i mean what's what's usually going on in their business when they decide that they need you or that they find you
00:14:38
Speaker
Yeah, good question. We're in a ton of verticals. Energy, financial services, medical, legal, um manufacturing, e-commerce.
00:14:50
Speaker
um We're in a lot of diverse construction, which I think is very different than manufacturing. um And then, I mean, we even have jet brokers and RV dealers. We kind of have, we have a we have a pretty broad base and I think that starting Phoenix in my late 30s, after being around the block a time or two, allowed me to really so understand the world.
00:15:17
Speaker
Case in point, my very first employee, one of our clients was ah was a paintless dent repair company. okay And didn't understand the process. And then I just stopped midway through our production. i'm like, have you ever filed an insurance claim?
00:15:32
Speaker
He's like, what is that? I was like, oh, geez. um so you know having people on our team under 35 i realized they don't have enough life experience so they they they sometimes need me to help educate them because we're so diverse but i think our our executive team is so well versed that we can you can literally unplug us i can talk botox and med spa and a 30-minute call and then jump into oil and gas talk about frac sand and then pull that and go talk about manufacturing and supply chain challenges so
00:16:05
Speaker
Phoenix is wildly diverse, um but our our science, our method um works across many verticals. so you You've talked before about how the work itself has to like evolve and and in pure design.
00:16:26
Speaker
and storytelling isn't really enough anymore. So, you know, I'm curious, is it, is it AI? Is it the time that we're in now? What what changed? Well, and maybe how did Phoenix sort of, you know, pivot to kind of keep delivering?
00:16:43
Speaker
Yeah. Good question. Well, i think, ai is the AI is probably the most overused word in every kind everyday conversation. you know I would say five years ago, the word crypto was overused and in every other conversation. Everyone's crypto guru, right?
00:16:57
Speaker
um And so I think that the word AI um is very broad. Everyone's using it. you know Everything from chat to claw to perplexity to grok, it's everywhere.
00:17:10
Speaker
But I think people are losing so losing sight of what AI really is.
The Role of AI in Marketing
00:17:15
Speaker
AI is a tool and AI is there to help you do certain things, right?
00:17:20
Speaker
It can, it can, it can perform really quick analysis of like complex spreadsheets and calculations, and it can help you plan your next vacation. But ultimately to me, and this is what I tell my clients, I'm like, yes, we use AI, but the, the, the gift is not in the AI.
00:17:36
Speaker
The gift is in the person with the idea and the creative strategy. Cause if you don't know where you're going or how to get there, um AI is going to give you more slop. And so I compare it to being AI is like the world's greatest combine harvester and tractor. Right.
00:17:52
Speaker
And if you give me the world's greatest combine and harvester and like I have all the latest, greatest technologies and say, Jeff, go grow me a crop. I have no experience. I'm going to struggle.
00:18:06
Speaker
You take a fifth generation farmer, you give him the same tools and it's, mind blown right so the output will be much greater with the experience and so i think that we're living in this place where people are just vibe coding and they're just doing this and i think that's just we're creating this infinite slop of recycling you know bad ideas um it's kind of a it's kind of a good segue into this this topic. i
00:18:37
Speaker
ah Something I find super valuable about about talking to folks, you know, like someone like you, is actually your vent is this vantage point, right? You're working with people across a lot of different, you know, business types, verticals, different lot of different kinds of leaders, and even, i would say, maybe organizational hierarchies, right?
00:18:59
Speaker
from From the outside looking in, What separates the companies that are firing on all cylinders from the ones that are really struggling? Is is there a common thread?
00:19:12
Speaker
um you're you're I think, it yes, there there could be based on company size and type. um We have four clients, about 35 to 40 clients. Four of our clients are the 800-pound gorilla in their industry. They're the biggest, right?
00:19:27
Speaker
um And then I've noticed that they get they get really handcuffed by red tape uh i.t um security protocols and they they're not able to execute in a timely fashion and um two of them are publicly publicly traded and they lack this deliverability of a project like we had a project we were launching with them you know a few months ago and it would take them about 12 to 18 months to launch this, this, this, this app we were building for them.
00:20:01
Speaker
And we could do it in four months. Right. um We could do it four months because of AI, because AI will help us, but it's not doing all the work for us. But, you know, that would normally take our team probably six to eight months, you know, on a normal timeline, we can now shade that down to under four.
00:20:20
Speaker
um And so I think that those big companies struggle with red tape. They struggle with execution. Is it because of like internal comms? Is it because of poor performers? like what What is it that, for example, causes that velocity, that slower velocity?
00:20:40
Speaker
Yeah, um I've noticed that the big companies have it's kind of like death by committee, right? oh Or that, yes. Talk to this person, to that person. Nope, we can't do that because she's not in the office today. like ownership over things. Yeah.
00:20:56
Speaker
so the But those companies have the budgets, right? So they have the they have the ability to fund what they need. um And then on the opposite end where the companies that can execute, the smaller companies, they don't have capital.
00:21:11
Speaker
right? So their common thread is they, they're undercapitalized, but they're still the heartbeat of America and they're small business owners that are doing great, you know, doing great work, building great products or do are providing a great service, but they just don't have the the capital to compete.
00:21:26
Speaker
So two when you walk into a client and start digging, how often is the problem that they think they have the actual problem that you find?
00:21:40
Speaker
Um, I don't think the common problem with all businesses is you can't see the forest because of the trees. And I think a lot of them can can vocalize what they do or what they sell.
00:21:55
Speaker
um But they don't know how to get out of the forest to see like a broader like a broader view of with what they're looking at. So I don't even think they can see it. I don't think it's too in the weeds. they They know there is a problem. They just can't articulate what it is.
00:22:11
Speaker
Yep. Yep. They're kind of camouflaged to the the problems camouflage to them. And so you have big, you have some of the world's largest companies, Exxon, Apple, they all bring in outside firms.
00:22:23
Speaker
Yeah. Always bring in an outside perspective because um it's easier for someone else to get to know you pretty quick and and talk about you and help you solve your problems, identify them than it is for you.
00:22:35
Speaker
to to do it on your own.
00:22:39
Speaker
you You've described companies, you know, and in in in chats, we, we you know, got to know each other over a couple of months, right? You've described companies, you know, that throw widgets and gadgets at at at the market without really checking or doing that sort of due diligence on whether or not folks will actually adopt them.
00:23:03
Speaker
Um, where does that impulse come from, you know, and, and and what does it eventually cost them over time?
Strategic Product Launches
00:23:11
Speaker
Well, that's an interesting part because I think that, um, it's, that's a, that's a symptom that every business struggles with, right?
00:23:19
Speaker
They, um, the bigger businesses are typically led by data, right? So like one of my big clients, um, You know, they're multi-billion dollar year company. And I'm with them so much six times a year. i sit in the meetings and I'm wondering out loud to myself o if their forecast models are driven by the the recent history so much that they can't really identify what the need is.
00:23:47
Speaker
um You know, I feel like a lot of these companies, um there's not a lot of Steve Jobs left in the world, right? Steve Jobs is one of the smartest guys that I'm just, ah his his his drive, his his tenacious attitude of either building products or computers, I just don't see a lot of people like that anymore.
00:24:09
Speaker
And I find people that typically are a little afraid to make make make big moves when they design a new product or a new a new flavor or a new item. um And the ones that normally nail it are the ones that solve a problem that they've experienced.
00:24:24
Speaker
They build a better rat trap because the other rat traps suck. yeah and And then if there's enough people like them in the world, you can you can make money with that. you You know, something that we talked about before we we we hopped on this this episode is that like a lot of, and and something you've talked about before, that a lot of cheap ah a lot of leaders chase what you know feels like that that magic that magic pill, right? The silver bullet, that the AI tool, the some campaign, the redesigned website, they expect it to revolutionize their business overnight, right?
00:25:03
Speaker
Yeah. Why doesn't all that stuff work? Well, there's a lot of reasons why it doesn't work. I think that what I've observed in my clients is um they...
00:25:18
Speaker
i don't but I don't think that they do a good enough job in attacking their market on all fronts. I think that there's a lack of execution in how they take a product to market.
00:25:29
Speaker
um I think there's a lack of execution in how they design that product. um And then I think that um when it comes down to it, ah you've got you' got people that are also trying to be played safe.
00:25:43
Speaker
you know You don't have a lot of risk takers out there anymore. All your risk takers are your entrepreneurs, right? They're your Elon Musk. But they're also Jim Smith Excavation Service who, yeah you know, has he may have done some hard time in his 20s or 30s in prison. And now he got out, got his life together.
00:26:02
Speaker
He's got a couple of limps. And that kind of guy is the backbone of America and he provides a service and he's not afraid to, to, to over deliver. He's not afraid to take the big risk and buy the new equipment, uh, to push the boundary.
00:26:16
Speaker
Um, that's what makes America great. Um, I love it. You, you mentioned that like. You've mentioned before you know that that your your own leads have dropped a little bit because everyone now thinks they can build their own site, make their own videos, do their own, all this. What's the lesson in that for business owners?
00:26:41
Speaker
um good good Well, first off, we are a team of 11 and we all have our individual roles. So my web designer designs websites.
00:26:52
Speaker
He does not produce video content, right? Okay. And I think that There are other applications that we can't deliver on. If somebody needed some really advanced video production or some type of, um you know, cinema 4D production where we couldn't, we can't recapture that, that scene or element in the video, we have to bring an expert in.
00:27:15
Speaker
Right. And i think that um a lot of companies don't have the right experts in the right place and the right position. So, um,
00:27:27
Speaker
that is also a massive crutch and limiting factor to their growth. You know? Yeah. Right butts, right seats. Yep. um yeah A hundred hundred percent.
00:27:38
Speaker
You know, you, you going back to one thing that we were talking about ah just, you know, at the way beginning, something you obviously feel strongly about, you know, i think people, especially the younger ones, right. They, they, they stopped looking for solutions really early. um You know, and this kind of goes to back to, you know, the I guess the, the that I don't know, the grievances, right, that a lot of old folks like us have with some of the younger generation. um
00:28:16
Speaker
but But what does that actually look like in practice, right? Why why do you think ah it's happening? and And is it just a phase where we like that but just don't remember? No, I think it's, a you know, the guys like you and i we ushered in, we were in high school when the internet came out, right?
00:28:34
Speaker
But we also were old enough to use a telephone when telephone books are out. So we're this unique generation where we we know what it was like before the internet, then we're also young enough to be on the cutting edge of the internet as it grew.
00:28:50
Speaker
um And I think that somewhere along the way, there's a couple of problems. Number one, I didn't have a helicopter parent. Right? Starts at home. The skills that I have today for problem solving were developed to me a long time ago.
00:29:04
Speaker
Like if you wanted to, you never went to my grandparents' house or my mom's house and said, I'm bored. Because they put you to work. You would learn real quick. I'm not going to want to work on a Saturday afternoon. I want to go play or go do something with my friends, ride my bike or you know do something outside.
00:29:20
Speaker
And um you learn real quick. don't ever say you're bored because that will cost you, you know? And I think that, um, the, the newer generation, um, the helicopter parents or technology or something came in and kind of put a put a parachute on them where they can't run as fast and jump as high.
00:29:42
Speaker
Um, they can't overcome, um, speed bumps. I literally last week, had one of my videographers call me and he couldn't execute this edit that I wanted.
00:29:55
Speaker
And I was like, we've done this before. And by him calling me and me stopping what I was doing in that moment, that took me offline for a good 30 minutes. And I stopped everything I was doing on ah in a forward you know trajectory and had to circle back with my business partner would be like, this is what I need.
00:30:12
Speaker
I don't know how to tell him the technical aspects of it. my And my partner's like, I can do it in 10 minutes. and my employees like i it's impossible he said it's impossible texted me this is impossible to do it the way you want and i'm like you've got to have a little more fortitude a little more grit and tenacity in today's market um and i'm also going to be sympathetic you know not everybody's going to have the drive that i do or that you do or other founders do um but at the same time
00:30:45
Speaker
have another I have another expression. I told my nephew this a long time ago. He didn't know what he was going to do. He's 20, dropped out of college. And he's just like, man yeah, I'll do whatever. Maybe be a door you delivery driver for Uber Eats or something.
00:30:59
Speaker
And I told him, I was like, look, you're allowed some time to think. And you're you're allowed to not have the answer to what you want to do with the rest your life. I said, but you're not allowed to have an excuse to not look for.
00:31:15
Speaker
So I said, look, as long as you decide to to commit to yourself, to staying productive and busy, kind of keep your hands on the plow and you don't know what you're plowing, but you're gonna plow.
00:31:26
Speaker
But you're always looking for that next thing that you want to
Impact of Overprotective Parenting
00:31:29
Speaker
do. What what drives you? What interests you? How can you help build a career out of something you love doing? So doesn't feel like work. Never stop looking for the answer, even if you don't have it.
00:31:42
Speaker
Just going to like let that sit for a second because I like that. I'm thinking of all the different ways that I need to tell my own kids these things. um There's a really, you know, it's funny when you talk about the when you talk about the um ah like the helicopter parenting. I mean, there's so there's a really good book out, that The Anxious Generation.
00:32:02
Speaker
And it's, it's a, have you, are you favorite of your Reddit? You look like, you know what I'm talking about. oh know i love It's really interesting. And it talks a lot about how parenting has become this, like, you know, whatever it is, i don't know how to describe it, but what's happening right on the other side of that. And these kids growing up without these experiences, you know, you said you grew up in Austin.
00:32:28
Speaker
That's where I am. And I look around and, and, and there's, Really zero chance that there will ever be any kids again who get to experience what it's like getting burned on a metal slide in the middle of the summer with no guardrails on either side. Those things don't exist anymore. We've essentially like, you know, um we've somehow guardrailed ourself out of experience.
00:32:53
Speaker
noh Right. You know, that the kids have, you know, the the rules were when we were a kid, you're home when the streetlights come back on. Yeah. those Those were the rules, you know.
00:33:04
Speaker
um But yeah, Anxious Generation. Check it out. Super interesting. um But I'm curious with with in the workforce, I mean.
00:33:16
Speaker
If you have to we you know figure the root of this, is it a patience problem? Is it a skills problem? Is it a culture problem?
00:33:28
Speaker
Or does it really stem from how they've been raised in adolescence with somebody coddling them? Yeah, that's a good question. I think you brought up all the points. we could probably you know argue and debate on each one of those and make a case out of it.
00:33:44
Speaker
Yeah. I'm a firm believer that the the tools that we have today were created us as really small children and we learn how to um empower those those certain traits and tools that we kind of go through life.
00:34:03
Speaker
um But for some reason, today's generation, some of the team, they they're too easily um either distracted or defeated. And and I don't know if they're not asking better questions because, you know, I'm I remember the first time I started welding. i was in shop class, you know, and and I ask questions.
00:34:25
Speaker
How does that how do I get on? Like, I don't think that they ask good questions anymore. And I think if you find a young person that does hold on to that. Yeah. so You've also said, i mean, you've said before, right, a lot of people today just simply lack the execution skills. And to me, I mean, execution is ah is a big word, right, that that includes a lot of things, right, that that yeah make somebody have the ability to execute. So, you know, what...
00:34:54
Speaker
I mean, what do you mean by it? Where do you see it most? and And I would then ask maybe like, what's the real difference between somebody who has a great strategy and somebody then who can actually execute it? Like where do most people fall down?
00:35:07
Speaker
Well, everyone has good ideas. They do. And they they they can sit around and dream up something cool they're going to do. They tell their friends, they tell their family, they tell everybody. And then they go to sleep and they forget it the next day and they wake up and they don't execute on that idea.
00:35:21
Speaker
um I think... We recently named, um we helped one of our clients name their annual meeting. We actually came up with the the term. I sat down with them back in March. Of course, it's June now.
00:35:36
Speaker
And I said, what's the, what's the temperature of the office? What is the, what's the message that's going around the team? And they said, and I was like, all right. And so the word execute came up in our conversation.
00:35:50
Speaker
and then, like this This company has all the tools, all the AI, all the money, all the budgets, but they don't execute right for one reason or another. And so I think we actually wanted to name it evolve and execute, but they made us drop the and execute off. I get why they made this because it has a negative connotation.
00:36:10
Speaker
um with it. But, but honestly, maybe that's why this, what's wrong with this generation. We can't say the word execute, just get it done. We can't even say that because we're in ah we inre a, we're in world where words mean so many different things to everybody else.
00:36:24
Speaker
And like I said, don't be offensive, but sometimes you just got to get up. And like, I mean, i don't ever want to get out hustled by a crackhead. know. That crackhead is going to get it one day, every day of his life. He's going to look for a couple things and he's going to figure out to get what he needs.
00:36:41
Speaker
Right. And that could be a burger, a sandwich, a thing of water, or a new shopping cart, whatever. But like, if we could find some, some tenacity in that and not get out hustled by a crackhead, man, the world would stuff, stuff would get done.
00:37:00
Speaker
i i'm i'm I'm going to lobby for that to be the title of your next book. Don't get out hustled by a crackhead. um Please, just for the love of God. Okay, thank you.
00:37:17
Speaker
So everything we talk about comes back to people, right? Yeah. when When you look at the leaders of the businesses you work with, there's there's obviously people-related issues that show up Often, right? We've we've we've talked about the the the myth of the magic pill or the silver bullet, right? um We've talked about those, you know, that that don't have a limp, right? we've talked You've lived this entrepreneur's grind firsthand, the daily battle, the good and bad decisions, you know.
00:37:52
Speaker
um I'm kind of curious, like, what does that teach you about leading people through the hard, stretches. I'm sure you've had a couple. Everybody has.
00:38:03
Speaker
Yep. I think i think the the first, the easiest thing I can do that I like to do is to lead by example. um last week Last weekend, we had a trip planned. We had to fly from Denver to Atlanta.
00:38:18
Speaker
And we literally took the red eye. We departed Denver at 12 o'clock on Saturday morning and had to film for a church at 8 a.m m eastern so i landed at 5 30 took a nap on the plane uh got the rental car we're at the church by 7 30. filmed got through and you know 1 32 for the day wrapped got on a plane and flew back home i taught my videographer hey look some i i couldn't leave earlier that saturday i lost one of my best friends so i was helping with this estate issue and i said i need all day started to take care of this business
00:38:58
Speaker
And you can go without me, but I'm not going be there until 530 you know, on on Sunday morning. And um he's like, no, i want to wait. And i'm i'm I'm teaching him that you got to take care of what's important to you.
00:39:11
Speaker
I had a family matter that was really urgent, but the show must go on. And I honored my friend by still getting the the work done. And we literally spent more time on an airplane with no sleep than we did actually filming, which is insane.
00:39:28
Speaker
I do think that's insane processing that in my brain right now. it it hurt I didn't feel good, but ah every everyone's happy. I was able to take care of my friend's situation and his estate that day and everything packed up and kind of you know put a bow on that, deliver for the client.
00:39:45
Speaker
But I taught taught my videographer this. I'm not going to ask you to do something crazy that I'm not willing to do. So I'm going lead by example. I'm going to be in i'm gonna be in the foxhole with you.
00:39:57
Speaker
I'm going to do the thing that's crazy. um Now when we got back. I gave an extra day off. I mean, he got some comp time for that, you know, because he kind thought through it. The second part of, you know, helping this generation is. um As fast as I talk, as fast as I move through life and business, which is typically all on or i ah I'm taking a nap or sleep, um is taking a little more time and explaining to them what they're doing and why it matters.
00:40:25
Speaker
and so i have a lot of creatives they're all creative they get easily distracted and end up making something and they'll make something that i'm like not we we missed the mark i'll go back to them and say look you gotta ask yourself who am i making this for what do i want to say and what's my how do want them to feel and if you can answer those three things they kind of all line up with that design that's a winner but if you can't answer those questions then that's a bad design. we need to start over.
00:40:55
Speaker
yeah So it's more about sitting down with them and telling them, reminding them of how important what they're doing. And so leading by example, and I think me take slowing down a little bit and showing them how to how to perform or correct or um pivot or adapt.
00:41:12
Speaker
I think that... um you know It's interesting, and sort of talking through that that that story arc just now really kind of gives a good picture of the things that you think about you know when you're thinking ah when when you're building a team you can trust to execute when you're not in the room. Right? Right.
00:41:36
Speaker
talking about not being able to go, but these things need to happen. And, you know, you need to be able to trust that they're going to be executed at a high level, right? Without you necessarily having to be there calling all the shots. um ah Looking ahead, right? Future of work. You have strong opinions on what it takes to be successful.
00:41:59
Speaker
What shifts do you do you see coming that business owners, entrepreneurs, founders aren't ready for?
Adapting to Technological Advancements
00:42:08
Speaker
Yeah, there's a lot. I think technology's on a massive um on a massive um speed train from hell, I feel like, at the time. feels like that sometimes, doesn't it, Jeff? Yeah, it does.
00:42:22
Speaker
But part of that also is, um like we're in we're in a we're Phoenix is in a very interesting moment. we We are like, the agency that we started in 2018 isn't the same one we are today.
00:42:37
Speaker
And in order for me to you know adapt to this new market of AI, um what does it look like for Phoenix? you know we're We're into this this new evolution of what we're doing now where it's ironically, I'm bringing sales back into the marketing where we're taking what we've learned and acquired over the years, got over a billion dollars in sales.
00:42:59
Speaker
How do i help my clients not just market create a campaign and handle all their you know their ads and their media and But how do I help them build a better team?
00:43:11
Speaker
How do I help them speak the same language and then obviously convert with new conquest business? Because that's what they need. you know They already have a stable of business, but how do I help them excel and grow up that to that next level? It's new business.
00:43:26
Speaker
And so what we're doing at Phoenix is we are now pivoting to not just marketing, but really a marketing with a sales-driven background or purpose behind um and so where do you where Where do you land on AI longer term for the the kind of businesses you work with? Is it a thread, a tool, a distraction, all the above? Are you going to help them implement it?
00:43:48
Speaker
They already have it implemented, but the problem is they have three different versions of it and they don't talk to each other. not Yes, this is true. There's not a lot of integration and they're they're very fragmented.
00:43:58
Speaker
like I have a client that's got two CRMs. I'm like, why two CRMs? And then you got subscriptions to... ah all these different, you know, AI platforms. um But I go back to, we're still people selling people.
00:44:13
Speaker
We're still people providing services for people. And yeah the the bots can't get that. They don't, you know. Not yet.
00:44:24
Speaker
um That is for sure. I want to, I want to wrap up with a ah ah question I love to, to always, you know, kind of to close on, you know, if a leader, business leader is coming to you feeling overwhelmed, chasing, chasing that magic pill, that silver bullet, they're struggling to, to execute, um,
00:44:47
Speaker
And you're asked for the single most important piece of advice that you could give them as an entrepreneur, right?
Advice for Business Leaders in a Fast-Paced World
00:44:53
Speaker
You have just a ah minute you're on an elevator before the doors open and they walk right out of there. What is the one thing that you tell them, Jeff?
00:45:00
Speaker
I wish you would have gave me the heads up on this question because it's a really good question. I wish I had time to process that and mull it over. Yeah. Hey, but this is good, right? Because this this is an entrepreneur now asking you, and really you you only have a minute. So I'm going to get a very authentic answer right now. yeah um um I would tell them to do whatever it takes to grow. you know the The movie made on the founders of Uber, think it's on Hulu.
00:45:32
Speaker
um He was quoted in saying in there a lot, we're either going to grow or die. And I think that businesses have to take that more literal today with AI and the the movement that's going on with technology and the navigation between remote, hybrid, and office, all the things going on.
00:45:49
Speaker
um Grow or die. Find out whatever you need to do to grow and do that and do it well. And that's it. like that. I don't think I would have expected anything less, especially given the you're either in fifth gear or you're asleep.
00:46:07
Speaker
Yeah. and you know Yeah. Yeah. If I procrastinate it, it's not going to get done. That's what I do. yeah Well, you know, and you're not going to get out hustled by, you know, cracker. We've already established this.
00:46:22
Speaker
You got it. Thank you, Jeff. Brother, I appreciate you joining me and sharing your story. Yeah, loved having it. and And thank you to everyone watching and listening Mustard Hub Voices Behind the Build. Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss the next episode. Please visit mustardhub.com to learn more about Mustard Hub, AI predictive foresight, and how it powers behavioral workforce intelligence for the global workforce. Until next time.