Transcript
Speaker: Oftentimes we label ourselves, I'm too old to do this, or so-and-so is 30 years old.
Speaker: They're too young to be my friend if I'm 60.
Speaker: In fact, if we go beyond a number and we look at a life stage someone's at, and we look at who they are, what they're interested in, and what values we share, age becomes less and less important.
Speaker: Retirement.
Speaker: That's what we're all aiming at, right?
Speaker: But exactly what does that mean?
Speaker: It conjures up visions of endless days of golf, drinks with little umbrellas in them on a tropical beach, feet up reading a book.
Speaker: Is that what it's all about?
Speaker: I don't think so.
Speaker: Life would get pretty dull after a while without anything meaningful to do, don't you think?
Speaker: I'm Jackie Doucette, and I'm on a mission to discover exactly what life is like beyond retirement.
Speaker: Join me while I chat with people who've already done it, who've retired to something rather than from something.
Speaker: Let's find out together exactly what's waiting for us when we say goodbye to that nine to five.
Speaker: Hi, everyone.
Speaker: Welcome to another episode of Beyond Retirement.
Speaker: Today, I have the pleasure of being joined by Barbara Waxman.
Speaker: Barbara is a longevity and life stage expert, a gerontologist, a coach, a speaker, an author, and an angel investor.
Speaker: Thanks for joining me today, Barbara.
Speaker: Thanks so much for having me.
Speaker: So there's a lot of things in there.
Speaker: And as always, my first question is a bit of an icebreaker.
Speaker: Can you tell us a little bit about who you are, how you got where you are today?
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: And at 60 years old, how much time do we have?
Speaker: I'll make it short.
Speaker: I am originally from New York though.
Speaker: I've lived in the Bay area of California for probably over 35 years now.
Speaker: And when I was growing up, my dad who was a physician would take me with him when he went to volunteer at a place called the Menorah Home and Hospital in Brooklyn, New York.
Speaker: It was a nursing home and I would roam the halls while he was seeing patients.
Speaker: And I'll never forget that, you know, the fluorescent lights, that blue white light and that antiseptic smell.
Speaker: But I wasn't frightened.
Speaker: I peek around into rooms and people would say, what's a nice girl like you doing in a place like this?
Speaker: And I talk with them and I felt better when I would leave because I just knew I brought people joy who otherwise were just sitting there.
Speaker: So began my kind of interest in aging and wisdom.
Speaker: So it has been a through line in my life.
Speaker: I thought I was going to be a nursing home administrator, in fact.
Speaker: So I got my master's in gerontology when I was in my 20s.
Speaker: And then I worked for everything from architects, social service agencies who were in the fields surrounding adjacent to aging, housing services, et cetera.
Speaker: And people started asking if I would coach them.
Speaker: And at that point, the New Yorker in me, though I was living in California, felt like coaching.
Speaker: And this was in around 2000 when coaching was still in its sort of infancy.
Speaker: And I thought, why do these CEOs or executive directors, why are these people looking for a coach?
Speaker: They know what they're doing.
Speaker: So I didn't pay attention.
Speaker: And finally, I realized so many people asked me, I needed to figure out why.
Speaker: And I looked at it and I ended up going back to school for my credential and started Odyssey Group coaching in 2005.
Speaker: And since then have really leaned into both the leadership, life,
Speaker: and longevity space.
Speaker: So I am an advisor at Stanford Center on Longevity.
Speaker: I am also an advisor at Stanford's Lifestyle Medicine because during the course of my life also,
Speaker: I needed to, my daughter was diagnosed as a child with an autoimmune disease.
Speaker: I was diagnosed with an autoimmune disease and needed to learn about integrative health, Western medicine and other modalities to help me and her be healthy and have our energy.
Speaker: And now I bring that to people as well.
Speaker: It's a little bit about my background.
Speaker: Well, it's amazing.
Speaker: And I,
Speaker: I can kind of relate to the autoimmune diagnosis later on because that happened in my family as well.
Speaker: I got diagnosed with a couple of them and then my kids did.
Speaker: And it makes you stop and think about things a little bit differently.
Speaker: And your body's fighting you and how am I going to keep up with this?
Speaker: It's a course correction time.
Speaker: And it takes a lot of research because our ingrained in our cultures, both in Canada and the United States,
Speaker: We have more of an affinity for fixing things.
Speaker: And that's not how autoimmune issues work.
Speaker: That's not what they respond to.
Speaker: It's more of approach of understanding and addressing rather than something's broken.
Speaker: Let's go in and fix it.
Speaker: So I'd like to start our little discussion with one of the things that you wrote when you were scheduling the interview, because it's something that I have kind of tried to say over and over to people.
Speaker: It links directly to that.
Speaker: And what you wrote is what we get wrong about retirement, how to stop retiring from and start aspiring to.
Speaker: And that it's so important because we've got so much time left at the point where, you
Speaker: before people were stopping.
Speaker: We've got to figure out what to do with the next 30 years.
Speaker: And I know you've got lots to say about that period and what we can do to change our point of view.
Speaker: So I'll mention four things that we get wrong about retirement.
Speaker: The first has to do with when people hear retirement planning, they think finances.
Speaker: And finances,
Speaker: are no laughing matter.
Speaker: Really important to understand the wherewithal people have, what's possible, et cetera.
Speaker: But that is only one part.
Speaker: Planning includes wellness.
Speaker: So we can match our health span to our lifespan.
Speaker: It includes community.
Speaker: What will my community be when I no longer am going to an office, although none of us are going to an office anymore, but what is my community and what is my identity?
Speaker: How will this impact my ego?
Speaker: So finances, wellness, community, and purpose.
Speaker: So that is one aspect that people get wrong, that it's really about finances.
Speaker: The other has to do with the number 65 or 60 something.
Speaker: When Social Security in the United States was created in 1935,
Speaker: life expectancy for men was 58 because of course the government didn't wanna pay out and for women was about 62.
Speaker: And for some reason, because it was identified as 65, and I think because with Canada, we're such close neighbors, this 65 sort of stuck.
Speaker: So that's when someone became a senior citizen and there were all kinds of benefits.
Speaker: Now it's a 62, you can go to movies and it costs less and right, you get discounts.
Speaker: Why that number?
Speaker: When it was created, it was, I'm sure you know this, hearkened back to the 1880s where Otto von Bismarck in Prussia created a pension system.
Speaker: So the number never made sense.
Speaker: It wasn't really based on anything having to do with our government's policy and
Speaker: yet it's stuck.
Speaker: And so people assume 65 is the number.
Speaker: If we looked at life expectancy today, the number would be closer to 80 years old, because actually, if life expectancy was lower than even 60, and the number was 65, it would be at least 80 now.
Speaker: And that wouldn't make sense either.
Speaker: So we also get the number wrong.
Speaker: And you mentioned life expectancy has increased in the last century by
Speaker: 30 years.
Speaker: And our default thinking is I'm going to be older longer.
Speaker: But that is not how we experience the years.
Speaker: We sort of, and this happens hormonally for men and women as well, our midsections expand.
Speaker: the middle of our lives expand.
Speaker: So we experience this whole new approach that no one, except for you, thank you for the work you're doing, and other people like myself are saying, let us help guide you in how to fully live in those years.
Speaker: So one, what we get wrong is it's about finances alone.
Speaker: Two, the number.
Speaker: Three, retirement means leisure.
Speaker: It doesn't.
Speaker: People on average might want to take a break.
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: Take trips, play golf, whatever works for you.
Speaker: But after about two years, people are craving more of a sense of purpose and meaning in addition to wanting that.
Speaker: So this idea of leisure is also a mistake.
Speaker: And then the final thing we get wrong is
Speaker: about retirement is thinking it's sort of the beginning of the end, that we're used to thinking when you're young, you learn.
Speaker: When you're in the middle of life, you earn and have a family if you choose.
Speaker: And then at the end, retirement means leisure.
Speaker: And then of course, after that, it's all over.
Speaker: So there's this association
Speaker: that it's the beginning of the end.
Speaker: And that's absolutely not true for so many people.
Speaker: They finally find love and romance for others.
Speaker: They find their true life's calling.
Speaker: It is such an exciting time.
Speaker: I think that's so true.
Speaker: And I've had a number of people say to me beyond retirement, isn't that death?
Speaker: It's kind of like, you know, there's this cutoff and a cliff and it's so, so not that way.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So I like you've come up with a couple of different terms that I think really should become more commonplace.
Speaker: One of them, I'm not sure it's your it's your term, but it's something that you're embracing is middle essence, just kind of like adolescence for us older folks.
Speaker: And then the idea that retirement, a lot of people are trying to get rid of the word retirement.
Speaker: And you've come up with something that's, I think, a whole lot better than that as well with the preferment.
Speaker: And it lends itself to what I've been saying to people, do what you want to do.
Speaker: Do what you, instead of what you have to do, enjoy getting up in the morning.
Speaker: When your feet hit the ground, be excited.
Speaker: So let me, I'll unpack those terms a little, just a little bit.
Speaker: One of the things that I feel very strongly about is that if you can name it, you can tame it.
Speaker: And when we have these free floating thoughts and concerns and something just doesn't feel right, if we can kind of identify what that is, then we have something to work with.
Speaker: So this middle stage of life
Speaker: has a lot of similarities to adolescence.
Speaker: In fact, a lot of people think adolescence is a developmental stage that just always, of course it is, it always existed, but that's not the case.
Speaker: It was named and created by a psychologist named Stanley Hall in the early 1900s for various reasons.
Speaker: Similarly, I didn't invent the word, I invented sort of the way we're using it.
Speaker: to say we now live long enough to have a second adolescence.
Speaker: And here's some of the commonalities.
Speaker: Our hormones are changing.
Speaker: Our bodies are changing.
Speaker: We need to invest more of our time and energy into taking care of our physical bodies.
Speaker: When we're younger, we can sort of get away with a lot more, right?
Speaker: We can dip sleep and we're okay.
Speaker: Well, now you can't really get away with so much.
Speaker: So we have the physical changes.
Speaker: We've got also the relationship changes.
Speaker: Everything from new love, new relationships, empty nesting, new jobs, leaving a job, caregiving.
Speaker: So
Speaker: We have more transitions in middle lessons than in adolescence, but they both share that aspect of lots of change.
Speaker: And then finally, adolescents feel like I'm not a little kid, but I'm not a grownup.
Speaker: And we, regardless of the exact age, feel like I'm not young, but I'm not old.
Speaker: So middle lessons is this time where it's a reckoning, where we're faced with
Speaker: decades in the future, and a responsibility and some choice around the investment we want to make in ourselves to figure it out, live life fully, and hopefully lean into that part of us that feels like, I want to leave the world slightly better because I was in it.
Speaker: So before I go on to preferment, does that make sense about middle-essence?
Speaker: It does.
Speaker: Yeah, it does.
Speaker: Before we move on, how does that fit in with the kind of stereotypical midlife crisis sort of thing that so many people say they're falling into?
Speaker: It happens around the same time.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: So for anyone interested, I did a TEDx talk on the myth of the midlife crisis because it is a myth.
Speaker: It's actually was a term invented by a 47 year old white man originally in about the 1955 and it didn't catch on.
Speaker: Then in the 1960s, around the time that there was this phrase, don't trust anyone over 30 and there was a lot of backlash against the government when we were in the Vietnam War, that era.
Speaker: So that was happening.
Speaker: So he tried again with this midlife crisis.
Speaker: Advertising also took off at around that time.
Speaker: And what do you think of a Harley Davidson?
Speaker: They must have a midlife crisis, a red Corvette.
Speaker: So it's sort of kind of like Y65.
Speaker: Midlife crisis, it sells.
Speaker: The truth is,
Speaker: We don't say adolescent crisis.
Speaker: We say adolescence is a really tough time.
Speaker: We have to help people.
Speaker: Middle essence is a reckoning.
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: But it's not a crisis.
Speaker: Oftentimes the crisis is for those people for whom their lives are impacted because of the changes someone makes.
Speaker: So I have a client who was a physician for years, completely supporting his family.
Speaker: And all the training and when he grew up, his parents said, you know, you're going to be a doctor.
Speaker: Well, he decided he was done with it.
Speaker: He didn't know what he wanted to do, but he wanted to do something different.
Speaker: And that entailed his going back to school, moving somewhere else.
Speaker: And his family said, what's going on?
Speaker: You must be having a crisis.
Speaker: No, they were having a crisis because he was saying, I've been here for all of you.
Speaker: And now I want to invest in myself.
Speaker: So that's a little bit about the myth of the midlife crisis.
Speaker: And that I think kind of leads into the preferment stage because he's, you know, like this fellow you're talking about, he's doing what he chooses now.
Speaker: So how many times do we hear people say, oh, I'm working in retirement?
Speaker: That doesn't even make sense.
Speaker: People think of retirement as the next stage, but the word actually means to withdraw, to stop.
Speaker: That is the last thing that people wanna do now.
Speaker: What people are looking for is not to have one kind of activity, work for pay, be the anchor that ties them down every single day.
Speaker: So it doesn't mean that they don't want to work anymore.
Speaker: It means I want to do the constellation of activities in my life.
Speaker: that I prefer to be involved with at this point.
Speaker: And so that's why we're starting to call it preferment and have a preferment portfolio because it's a time of life when we are not one dimensional.
Speaker: As we age, we are so much more complex and richer and frankly more interesting.
Speaker: And so it's a time where people can look at this constellation and say, rather than being tied down to one thing, how can I travel?
Speaker: still have an impact, continue my relationships, invest in my health.
Speaker: So you see, it's almost like an investment portfolio, but an investment in oneself in a way that we prefer.
Speaker: So I call it preferment.
Speaker: I think that's wonderful.
Speaker: I think I'm going to start using that.
Speaker: And definitely I will let everybody know that it came from you.
Speaker: Thank you.
Speaker: I couldn't come up with a word, which is why I just said beyond retirement.
Speaker: It's like retirement's kind of like a post on the road, but you're going, you know, you're going on past that to, you know, whatever you want to be.
Speaker: Well, it was an epiphany.
Speaker: I mean, I've been thinking about this for years.
Speaker: And one of, I'd say my superpowers is,
Speaker: knowing enough about the research.
Speaker: First of all, I've been reading a lot of research around this and working and getting qualitative data through my work with people around the world.
Speaker: And then having the time and space to create the semantics, because words matter, that people can shift towards to actually have it be aspirational.
Speaker: So I do that.
Speaker: I also talk about being age agnostic.
Speaker: Yeah, I was going to ask about that.
Speaker: So let's go into that a little bit because I know, I'm sure people understand what agnostic is in a religious sense.
Speaker: And I think you're probably talking about similar things with age.
Speaker: So oftentimes we label ourselves, I'm too old to do this or so-and-so is 30 years old.
Speaker: They're too young to be my friend if I'm 60.
Speaker: In fact, if we go beyond a number,
Speaker: and we look at a life stage someone's at, and we look at who they are, what they're interested in, and what values we share, age becomes less and less important.
Speaker: And once I gave up that sticky attachment to a number, so many of my relationships expanded in really beautiful ways where I'm mentoring someone younger
Speaker: And they're mentoring me right back.
Speaker: So I think that culturally, in addition to a number holding ourselves back, culturally, there's a lot of ageism that goes on.
Speaker: And if we take that out and look at people for people and who they are, we will be much better off.
Speaker: So I sort of use that term, how about being age agnostic and really looking beyond the number and seeing one another
Speaker: Try it out and see how it feels and what changes.
Speaker: I like that because like you, a lot of people that I've run into have said, oh, you know, I can't be doing that anymore.
Speaker: Not at my age.
Speaker: Like, well, why not?
Speaker: If you want to and are physically capable of it, why would you stop?
Speaker: But I do the same thing myself.
Speaker: I kind of look at myself in the mirror before I go out.
Speaker: It's like, wow, I'm not dressed right.
Speaker: Someone my age shouldn't be dressed like this.
Speaker: I was recently contacted by an organization, a national organization that creates a
Speaker: They address loneliness and they create these opportunities for dinners in different cities around the country.
Speaker: The United States, I don't think they're in Canada yet.
Speaker: And they have people reach out and invite people that they don't know.
Speaker: So that's the premise.
Speaker: And they've done it for millennials and it's been wildly successful.
Speaker: So they reached out to me because they want to do it for middle essence, for people who are midlife and better.
Speaker: And they said to me, we wanna create this for people between 55 and 64.
Speaker: And I said to them, okay, so let me get this straight.
Speaker: I'm 60 years old.
Speaker: I'm actually a new grandmother and I'm still working full time and I'm super active.
Speaker: And I've got a friend who's 65.
Speaker: She has twin daughters in college
Speaker: She's also super active.
Speaker: She's also working full-time.
Speaker: I can't invite her because she's 65.
Speaker: She actually has younger kids than I do.
Speaker: And so they listened and they're reevaluating their whole strategy because when we look at, and that's how, where'd they get that number?
Speaker: When you look at population statistics, that's how it's broken down, 55 to 64.
Speaker: It doesn't pertain anymore.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And I was laughing when you were talking about, you know, you get into movies a little bit cheaper, you know, things like that.
Speaker: And I was upset one time a number of years ago when my daughter was doing gymnastics because I was going in to watch the competition.
Speaker: And they asked me if I wanted the seniors discount.
Speaker: It's like, well, sure, I want it, but I don't qualify for it.
Speaker: So if you want to give it to me, great.
Speaker: But now I stop and I say, well, yeah, I'm, you know, why does it have to be 65?
Speaker: At 60, a lot of the discounts happen and, you know, who's to say what age they're supposed to be at?
Speaker: Exactly, exactly.
Speaker: But I like the idea, sorry.
Speaker: This organization that I mentioned with the dinners and wanting to do it for people 55 to 64, part of what this organization does is they subsidize millennials to have the dinners.
Speaker: And they, for this group, they weren't going to.
Speaker: And I said, yes,
Speaker: This group, as we age, we actually, in the trillions, we run economies.
Speaker: So it is true that people tend to have more money.
Speaker: But if you're trying to address loneliness, don't stereotype people and say, oh, because you're this old, we're not subsidizing you because we could figure you can afford to have the meal for others.
Speaker: There's so much ageism.
Speaker: I used to call it benign ageism because people don't mean it.
Speaker: But I don't think any ageism is benign.
Speaker: No.
Speaker: And it's funny, well, not funny, it's sad actually how often you run into it.
Speaker: If you stop and pay attention to what's being said and what's being done.
Speaker: But like you say, it feels or it seems like it's probably benign, except that it really isn't because it's affecting a lot of people.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: It's changing how those people look at themselves as well. 100%.
Speaker: And I think that's something that I would really like to change is how, as we age, we tend often to think less of ourselves, think less of what we're capable of doing.
Speaker: And I don't think that that's appropriate.
Speaker: I think we need to be continuing to do the things that we've always done, showing that this middle essence is continuing and it's a
Speaker: a real force.
Speaker: It's happening and we're going to continue being strong and being healthy and being active in all parts of society.
Speaker: It's definitely not a retirement.
Speaker: It's interesting.
Speaker: I'm leading a group when we talk about, so what's next?
Speaker: There's middle essence.
Speaker: I think after middle essence is mastery.
Speaker: I'm leading a group of women.
Speaker: It's a group they've been meeting for about 10 years and they have worked with various facilitators.
Speaker: So I've came in about probably eight months ago.
Speaker: I am, and they call themselves the nesters.
Speaker: I am learning more from them
Speaker: when we think about the what's next, none of them are working.
Speaker: Oh, actually one of them is a therapist and she's still working and she's 83.
Speaker: They are all extremely active and they have so much wisdom.
Speaker: And so what we talk about is how to be a modern matriarch.
Speaker: How do you shift into a stage where you're not working in the traditional sense, but you're working as a matriarch
Speaker: Interacting with generations.
Speaker: And when they shifted their frame to that, and they think about the modern matriarchy, they report back that they feel so much more empowered and satisfied with the things they've already been doing that they didn't give themselves credit for, because again, they didn't have the language for it.
Speaker: I think that's interesting.
Speaker: I think Western society is probably the only one that that starts to devalue people as they age.
Speaker: I know in other cultures.
Speaker: It's the matriarch or the patriarch of the family who has all the wisdom and they're treated with a lot of veneration.
Speaker: Is that a word?
Speaker: They're treated like they have the knowledge and the experience that they do.
Speaker: And I think that we need to spend more time putting voice to what we want to have happen.
Speaker: We need to be able to
Speaker: stand up and say, hey, I've got something to share, or my experience might be worth it, before people are going to start taking that seriously, I think we need to start being more, not aggressive, but more assertive in what we're saying and what we're doing.
Speaker: And I think that that, I like the term, like I said, middle essence, and I like mastery for the next one.
Speaker: I think people need to start saying those things and using that kind of language if that's
Speaker: if it's going to happen.
Speaker: Well, that's the why, why the work you are doing is so important in inviting people who have something to say that you think needs to be said and shared because wisdom is shared, right?
Speaker: That's how it works.
Speaker: So thank you for, for doing this.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: You're welcome.
Speaker: And I'm really enjoying it.
Speaker: I'm learning so much from you and from all of the guests that I have because everyone's got their own take on what's important and how to spread that information.
Speaker: And I think that breaking down all the barriers is the best way to do it.
Speaker: Absolutely agree.
Speaker: So you've done a lot of work as a gerontologist, as a coach.
Speaker: You've done a lot of things with a lot of people.
Speaker: What would be your biggest piece of advice that you could give to someone who's trying to reverse this stage of life and make it better for themselves?
Speaker: Did you say reverse?
Speaker: No, traverse.
Speaker: Traverse, okay.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: This knowledge comes from the inside out.
Speaker: So I think the most important thing to know is that each of us has the wisdom within us at this stage, but what we either don't take time for, or we don't naturally have the tools, how do I get the clarity of what I know is stuffed in here somewhere?
Speaker: Oftentimes looking at the story of your life, sitting at the feet or foot of your own life and learning from it,
Speaker: Well, that's the best place to start because you see threads.
Speaker: It's like our lives are a tapestry and there are these threads running through our lives.
Speaker: What are the threads that are consistent or what thread have you dropped?
Speaker: I worked with a client, actually the story that I told in this TEDx talk about the midlife crisis, who was in the finances business and he was deeply unhappy.
Speaker: And after working for a while, he recognized that what he really always dreamed of and loved was flying and anything to do with aviation.
Speaker: He ended up making a choice to go start over and now he has a Cessna dealership and he flies small aircraft for other people and he is just loving it.
Speaker: So I think my best advice is find a coach
Speaker: Find a strategic thought partner whom you trust.
Speaker: And Simon Sinek, S-I-N-E-K, for those of you who don't know, he wrote an excellent kind of workbook called Find Your Why.
Speaker: And you can do that with someone else and go through a lifeline of sorts.
Speaker: I think that's a great place to start.
Speaker: Wonderful.
Speaker: Thank you.
Speaker: I know I'll put the link to your website in the show notes and also the middlescence.co website.
Speaker: I took a look at that today.
Speaker: There's some really, really fascinating things in there.
Speaker: And I also I wanted to say, I don't know if I've got it here.
Speaker: I did your little five to thrive test.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And I, I don't know, I guess it's okay.
Speaker: I'm kind of in the middle of the nearly thriving section.
Speaker: So so I'm okay with that for now.
Speaker: I've got some work to do, but at least I'm not depleted.
Speaker: Just quickly before we finish up, I know that this is available on your website.
Speaker: Can you tell people a little bit about what that is?
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: And that started, that work came from, like most of us, and I mentioned this because it goes back to the lifeline, the story of my life, the years of searching for health and exuberant wellness.
Speaker: and doing tons of research, everything from ancient wisdom to modern science.
Speaker: And came up with, in fact, it was just, that quiz was just, it's not so little, was just published in a book for healthcare trainees because during COVID there's been so much suffering amongst healthcare workers.
Speaker: So the quiz covers five areas.
Speaker: The five areas that you need the building blocks to your thriving.
Speaker: Foundational is rest and renewal, which is so undervalued.
Speaker: Next is exercise and nutrition.
Speaker: Then focus and growth.
Speaker: Most of us are not in the business of digging a garden, though I love to garden, but physical work every day.
Speaker: Most of us are in the intellectual property business.
Speaker: So our brains get overwhelmed also with social media and all that other junk.
Speaker: So understanding focus and growth and what are those things that you need?
Speaker: That's the third area.
Speaker: Joy and passion is the fourth.
Speaker: I specifically don't call it purpose because I think we obsess over a sense of purpose and we get really stuck because we think I'm not Mother Teresa.
Speaker: I'm not going to do that.
Speaker: That's not what it's about.
Speaker: So that's the fourth area.
Speaker: And the final area has to do with your relationship with time.
Speaker: and how you use that because that's a big issue for people.
Speaker: So I offer it for free.
Speaker: Coaches license the quiz.
Speaker: So when people use it in their work and make money from it, then they pay a license and I trust people to do that.
Speaker: But I offer it for free because I feel like it is so important for people to be able to create their own baseline.
Speaker: Wonderful.
Speaker: And I do encourage the listeners to go and check it out just to get an idea of where you stand in all those categories.
Speaker: I was not surprised to find out that my time and effort score was quite low.
Speaker: I don't have very good use of time.
Speaker: But it's improving.
Speaker: Good.
Speaker: Good.
Speaker: Thank you very much for being here and chatting with me today.
Speaker: I'm sure that the listeners got a lot out of it because the idea of aging well is something that we all have to work on.
Speaker: We all struggle with, I think, as we go through our life.
Speaker: And I think that every little bit of information that points us in the right direction is good.
Speaker: Is there anything you'd like to say before we close up?
Speaker: Just thank you for having me.
Speaker: I really appreciate it and appreciate the work you're doing.
Speaker: Thanks so much.
Speaker: And that's it for this episode of Beyond Retirement.
Speaker: Thank you so much for hanging out with me.
Speaker: I hope you enjoyed it.
Speaker: To check out the video interviews, please go to my YouTube channel at bit.ly forward slash beyond retirement.
Speaker: That's B-I-T dot L-Y forward slash beyond retirement.
Speaker: Be sure to subscribe so you won't miss any new episodes.
