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Aus Short Trail Champ Michael Tosin, Resignations at AUTRA, and Donna Double GTNS Preview | Episode 99
0 Playsin 8 hours
In Episode 99 of Peak Pursuits, James, Jess and Brodie all sit down with Australia’s newly crowned short trail national champion, Michael Tosin, after his surprise victory at Snowy Mountains 50k. From a rapid progression to a 2:18 marathon to stepping up and winning on the trails, Michael’s story is one of raw talent, smart training, and huge potential. We unpack his unconventional race-day nutrition, training approach, and what’s next with Asia Pacific selection on the line.
The team then discuss the recent resignations of the President and Vice President of AUTRA, Gary Mullins and Geoff Russell, before previewing the fields for this weekend's Donna Double at Warburton Trail Fest - with a huge $21,000 prize purse on the line! This week’s listener questions are on topic for Warby Trail Fest with questions about poles on the Donna Double course and what to eat before a race.
As usual results from the past weekend are also outlined and there is plenty of banter along the way - we hope you enjoy!
Results:
- Mt Bogong Conquestathon (VIC)
- SEQ Trail Series Round 7: Ewen Maddock
- Whale Rock Trail Run
- Perth Trail Summer Series: Chitty Chitty Run Run
- Belair Marathon
***Don’t forget, use code PEAK at https://bix-hydration.myshopify.com/en-au for 20% off Bix products, exclusive to PPP listeners!***
Thanks for tuning in to Peak Pursuits!
Connect with us on Instagram @peakpursuits.pod to share your thoughts, questions, and your own trail stories. Until next time, keep hitting the trails and chasing those peak pursuits!
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Follow Michael: Instagram | Strava
Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!):https://uppbeat.io/t/mood-maze/trendsetter License code: K08PMQ3RATCE215R
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Introduction
00:00:08
Speaker
Hello and welcome to episode 99 of the Peak Pursuits Podcast. My name is James. I'm joined this week by two of our regular hosts. Brodie, how are you going? Yeah, pretty good. Thanks, James.
00:00:20
Speaker
Good to hear. And we've also got Jess with us. Yeah, I'm good. A bit wet. It's been raining nonstop today. and Had to walk the dogs in pouring rain, so that was a bit fun. It's lovely. so i'm sure I'm sure they appreciated it. And we're also joined with, guess we tried to get on last week, a few technical issues, but we wanted to make sure that we didn't miss chatting to the Australian Short Trail National Champion for 2026.
00:00:46
Speaker
Michael, Tosin, are you going? Good. Thank you for having me on. Happy to be here, finally. ah It's great to great have you on. Great to get to know you as well because you're not a name that we've seen too much around the trail. Some two-base results and a Donna double result, but that's really it. So ah I guess start
Michael Tosin's Running Journey
00:01:04
Speaker
us there. What's brought you to come up and race Snowys Because it seems relatively out of the blue.
00:01:10
Speaker
um I did the ultra trail Kosciuszko, the 100k, three years ago. So I wanted to come back because I had a very bad time three years ago. So I wanted a redemption.
00:01:22
Speaker
Sweet. Okay. And looking at some of your road times, they're very impressive. And at that point, you could sort of stick on the road scene. So what is it about the trails that's piqued that curiosity at this point for you? ah ah Just because it's still running. I just like running, you know, like running in the bush, like running on the road, like running anywhere. So i when I ran two bays earlier this year,
00:01:46
Speaker
Michael Kernan, a friend of mine, just texted me this race saying, oh, look, you should be you should be interested. It suits you, suits your training. I thought, oh, yeah, you know, it seems tempting, especially being the Blue Mountains, but there's Snow Mountains. But I thought, I'll just keep them back in my head.
00:02:02
Speaker
And then it was only, yeah, the week before the race, I thought, nah, i'm I want to do it. So I thought, you know what, let's do it, see what happens. I've done plenty of training runs at about 40K. That was on similar terrain and similar elevation, so I thought,
00:02:15
Speaker
Yeah, what's the worst that can happen? i'll I'll just do it, see what happens. I like it. Looking at your two-base times that have cut down, like 2020, you started at 2.02, which is still a very fast time on the two-base course. And then this year, scroll up for all your results. It was, was it one, sorry, last This year it was 147. 147, yeah. ill say Sorry, that wasn't in front in in front of me. that's like It's a very impressive increase in time. Is that just is that from any trail training or is that just purely running? Oh, just more running. That's what, six years of running in between those two performances. So, yeah, just keep running and you get better.
00:02:55
Speaker
like it. I guess you're still pretty young. like You're only, what, 25? 25. Yeah. yeah So, you you yeah, that sort of age where you're continually improving. It was a nice age.
00:03:06
Speaker
I like that age. Yeah, I was going to say, I wish I was still um still improving just by training. what What was the draw? Because like jumping up, you did the 56 of two bays.
00:03:18
Speaker
Was that before or after Cozzy? that was the That was like five weeks after Kozzy. And that also that race also did not go too well because Kozzy didn't go too well. But, yeah, that was a bit of a rough period in terms of races. but And it kind of put me a bit off ultra running and trail running. But, no, I'm back. So, yeah.
00:03:38
Speaker
Like stepping up straight essentially from what, had you done a marathon? Yeah, yeah yeahs going from the marathon up quasi is quite a big, big jump. What was it about going into the 100k straight away? ah I've always just wanted to run more. I remember when I started running, i think I'd done two marathons and then a friend of mine was doing like a 48k trail, just like a training run. and I was like, oh, i want to do that. That sounds good. at I want to go further. Like I don't necessarily want to go far ah faster. i prefer to go further.
00:04:08
Speaker
<unk> more It's more me, I suppose. so And I always want to do 100K, but I just i guess I was just off-put. was like, oh, it's going to be hard. And two, it's going to take a long time to recover as well.
00:04:20
Speaker
And, you know it just being a big commitment in general. I'm more unknown. So I guess I was a bit off-put
Racing Challenges and Lessons Learned
00:04:24
Speaker
about that. But, yeah, in 2023, was like noh Let's do it. I'm just going to it. and And yeah, it did not go too well, but it was it was a very good learning curve.
00:04:33
Speaker
When you say not too well, what happened? I got sick about three days before the race. Oh, no. Along with the altitude. i don't know what happened to this day. I don't know what happened, but something in my throat didn't agree with me and I couldn't really breathe that deep the whole day.
00:04:48
Speaker
But yeah, we got it done. It was it's still a good day, but we got it done. this that's um And then doubling back for two bays, you said that didn't go well as well. Was that just a recovery thing? Yeah, just a recovery and a mental recovery more than anything as well. I had a bit of a groin problem throughout those four or five weeks as well. But that was probably like one of the only races where I thought, oh, look, I'll just try and finish this. I didn't really have a goal time in mind or any any any sort of anything. just thought, no, I'll just finish.
00:05:14
Speaker
yeah and having now gone back to the snow he's got back into the trails are you feeling more inclined to do more of them yes definitely yeah it's not definitely got a fresh fresh enthusiasm back so ready to go good i'm glad yeah yeah that's what that's why we got you on the podcast to cement it so that you you must stay in trail running now this is your initiation um Michael, when if I jump in, James, for a sec, is that all right? I was having look at like your road results, and Michael, and it looks like 2025, you had like a pretty crazy improvement in your marathon time over 2025, but I'm not seeing any results in 2024. What happened in 2024 and then into 2025 with your running in general? like Was there something there or was it just you didn't race too much and then in 2025, you sort of got back into it?
00:06:08
Speaker
No, so 2024, got ah injured in, i think it was April or March. um And then, yeah, just... Yeah, didn't run for a few months. Well, didn't do any races. Then just slowly built up. I think the second half of 2024 was just building the whole time.
00:06:25
Speaker
Yeah. I didn't really – there's no point or no reason to do like a hard marathon
Achievements and Strategy Reflections
00:06:30
Speaker
because, you know, obviously it takes a lot of preparation. And going – yeah, at the end of 2024, I thought my goal is Ballarat 2025. That was my thinking, so – that was my my thinking so yeah and And for the listeners in 2020, in that Ballarat marathon, you went from a PB of 234, I think, to 229, 14. So you sort of, I guess you achieved that goal as a massive PB. and How were you feeling at that stage? Because you did sort of get even better as the year went on.
00:06:59
Speaker
So I actually ran a 2.32 2021. That was during lockdown. So it wasn't official. yeah um Yeah. Yeah. But I remember in 2.32, I thought, oh, my God, like, okay, let's go to 2.30.
00:07:12
Speaker
And, yeah, it took me four years to try and break that barrier. I just had, yeah, just – I guess, oh yeah, you know, got injured or didn't have the best race. you know Yeah, you learn, obviously. and then come, yeah, early 2025, I actually got injured again.
00:07:26
Speaker
but I thought, no, I'll still give Ballarat a crack. And I remember my coach said, yeah, no, you could easily break 230. You can do it. I thought, okay, all right, he thinks I can do it, I'm going to hop on the 230 pacer, which was, i think, Craig Appleberry.
00:07:38
Speaker
um And, yeah, i just stuck with him. And I remember I think it was at 30K. I thought, oh. I think um I can do this. You know, I've got this. And, yeah, I've got 229. Finally, yes. And um I guess that just, um I guess, opened Pandora's box. So I just, I guess, sent me mentally free because, what was it, nine weeks later at Gold Coast Marathon, I got 223. So another huge six-minute, six minutes taken off.
00:08:05
Speaker
yeah Yeah. And then and then he went on again, which is the crazy thing. Like, I think this is like at the start of the year in 2025, it looked like you like you were intent on breaking 230. And then in October at Melbourne Marathon, which is maybe not the quickest marathon either.
00:08:20
Speaker
um You seemingly do it easily. Like, it looks easy when you look at these results. it looks like you're just progressing by five minutes every time. For a barrier of 220, which is really hard for people to break, you just come out and run 218.30. Like what was that? Were you expecting to run that quick that day or like how did it feel to sort of get another jump?
00:08:40
Speaker
ah Yeah, no, was expecting to run sub-220. That was my goal. um Look, I don't i don't know. i at To be honest, at Gold Coast, I was aiming to go sub-220. But it was a bit humid and I didn't do some things right, especially in the first 5 to 10K. So I'd end up with 223. But, yeah, I don't know. I guess even like the four years prior to that, I knew i was more than capable of sub-230 and maybe sub-225. But I didn't know how far...
00:09:10
Speaker
how far down in the times. But yeah, 2025 was a good year, just, you know, race after race. even ah they Actually, I've got to give a lot of credit to the XCR season.
00:09:21
Speaker
I did, I think, nine of those races. And in two of those races, I guess I really discovered what how how far I can push my body and what I'm capable capable of. So I think that gave me a lot of confidence going to Melbourne and saying, okay, I can hold on to this pace.
00:09:36
Speaker
And there was a group that I think went out in 69 minutes for the half i thought, nah, yeah, i'm going to stick with these guys. I know I can stick with them. Yeah, XCR gave me that confidence. And then, yeah, I did it. So was like, awesome. Yeah, and it sort of looks like in those XCR races of different distances, the road ones that are on your World Athletics profile, that the longer it went, the sort of better your result was, but also probably maybe the better your time is. So, like, did you always think you were better at running longer, like the marathon, and maybe that's led to you now going after this No, I've always thought of myself as a marathoner beyond guy. Like I've never been, I never thought I'd have a chance of being good anything b less. I knew, as yeah, the longer the distance goes, I just, I like it better and I think I am actually better at it as well.
00:10:22
Speaker
Sweet. Sounds like you belong in trail running then, Michael. That's why I had a good track at the That's my pitch. you know, I'll be even better at this hopefully, but I'll definitely be doing another one in the future, but we'll see how that goes. Yeah.
00:10:35
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Michael, do you reckon once you broke that 230 barrier and you said like you kind of learned how to push yourself, it was more because in six months, 10 minutes worth of marathon fitness, that's that's a huge gain. So do you think it was more the mental side that set you free than it was the physical side gaining fitness?
00:10:53
Speaker
ah Yes, a bit of both as well. um I didn't get injured at all in those yeah six or seven months and I ran more than I ever have. And I remember, you know, I always ah slept more and ate more. So I i trained more properly, just like a proper proper runner as well. But yeah, definitely the mental side, like as especially, yeah, the two twenty nines Oh, i'm I'm done. Like ah I can retire tomorrow. like At least I did it, you know. So it's just let's see what I can do.
00:11:21
Speaker
Yeah, it's incredible well the ah the barriers we create for us else when you put those times on, like making that three hour or that 2.30, whatever it's going to be, how much that can actually hold hold you back. It's it's like it's very impressive what like looking at the ah the progression there.
00:11:36
Speaker
How well do you feel like when you you go into Snowys or you go into Two Bays, as a as you say as as you now are now, a 2.18 guy, do you find that transitioning that speed onto the trails comes quite naturally for you?
00:11:52
Speaker
I don't really think of it as speed. I just think of it as as effort. Like um even going through two bays, like yeah like you said, I done a 201 or a 202 six years ago and then an L147. It still feels like I'm going through the course in the same speed or the same way, the same effort. It's just I've gotten fitter. I've gotten stronger. but Like I don't realize that, I guess. So if I didn't have a watch, I guess I wouldn't have known.
00:12:17
Speaker
Yeah, that's a very cool and true way to put it. Yeah. yeah it's um like going Going right back, have you always been a runner? Is this something you've picked up in your late teens? No, I'm never a runner in school. I wish I was now, but...
00:12:34
Speaker
I started running when I was 18, the last year of school. My auntie did a half marathon and that inspired my dad to start training for a marathon. And I thought, I'll join him. Why not? See what see what happens.
00:12:46
Speaker
And so we trained for a marathon together. we did goal coaching in 2019. And I thought, okay, I'm going to continue this on my own now, see what I can do. And then I ran Melbourne in 2019. I thought, okay, yeah, I definitely got the bug in Melbourne 2019.
00:12:59
Speaker
And yeah, haven't looked back. So the 357 that was running with your dad? Yes. Yeah, okay. So I was goingnna i was was wondering if you would ah drop him in the event, but you did the good No, no. Well, it's funny you say that because we did the 10K in Melbourne ah in 2018, and that was the first event I've ever done. And you finish in the MCG when did you do that 10K. And I remember, yeah, entering the MCG. I was with dad, but then, of course, you get the adrenaline rush. everyone Everyone's in the state. with Oh, my God, i'm running on the MCG. Let's go, let's go. And I dropped dad that day.
00:13:30
Speaker
and I thought, oh, I felt a bit bad. I thought, nah, I better make sure when we run the marathon, we run it, we run run through the finish line together because that's, that's more special that way as well, of course.
00:13:40
Speaker
Was your dad just going the whole time? Like, how are you doing this so easy whilst he's trying to get a marathon done? Yeah. Well, I'm what, 35 years younger than him. So yeah.
Coaching and Race Planning
00:13:50
Speaker
That's very Guys, before we go into the recap of the race, any other questions for Michael?
00:13:54
Speaker
Well, yeah, was sort of wondering, like, since you sort of started running later in life, like, how long have you been with a coach and who is your coach? Ah, yeah. so i So when I started in 2018, from 2018 to 2021, I was just on my own.
00:14:12
Speaker
ah We joined a running club, the Lang Warren Running Club. It's like a social running club. It's not like a training group. It's a social running club. um But after, yeah, around 2.32, yeah, in 2021, yeah, dad said, oh, no, you're an ed coach.
00:14:27
Speaker
So he just looked someone up. And Sean Williams of Melbourne Pack was obviously the first first search. So I joined them. i was with them up until the very end of last year, and then Sean retired.
00:14:38
Speaker
So now that Melbourne Pack club has been absorbed into Evolve Run Club. which is with Dion. So, yeah, I'm with Dion now. Yeah, so good. Yeah, before all of you know who that is yeah so is. is Dion in your era pushing the trail side or is he being? No, actually, to be honest, because I guess we'll get to it soon. But, yeah, I didn't sign up to this race until the Monday before the race.
00:15:02
Speaker
And I just told him on the Tuesday, I said, oh, by the way, I'm going to run 50K race this week. He was like, okay, cool. Like, yeah. Yeah. I feel like it would be a good person for that. Yeah.
00:15:14
Speaker
Wonderful. Okay. Well, sorry, Jess. Yeah. And like, so I guess this year we can sort of go into it a bit more, but like are you focusing, you've got Ballarat marathon coming up. Is that right? ye Yeah. Yeah.
00:15:29
Speaker
So the plan going into this year before all this happened, I was going to do Ballarat, Gold Coast and Melbourne, same as last year. So, you know, if I can ah make that magic happen again. um But now, you know, probably we'll be running this race in November.
00:15:44
Speaker
so I have to fit that in and maybe I have to get it to Melbourne. I'm not sure. And then, of course, yeah, I want to do more trail races as well to fit them in as well or drop Gold Coast as well.
00:15:56
Speaker
Yes. As someone who has moved from road into trail, like it's really hard to juggle both, I reckon. It's definitely doable, but yeah. Yeah, I don't know. um um It's exciting that you're keen to do both though. Like I think if you do have that like longer dis like bug for the longer distances, like um yeah, you'll definitely be able to use the speed that you have in the marathon in like some 50Ks because I feel like the bigger 50K and like 100K races in Australia are like on some very runnable trails like the UTMB events. So yeah, I think there's a lot of potential for you to do well there.
00:16:35
Speaker
Which is exciting. Yeah. I think we're, we're all pretty excited, but it is, it's, it's definitely challenging. And we were saying offline about the recovery coming off the road marathon. And it's not, even if you're someone that has got the history of doing three a year and performing well, it's not something you want to feel like you have to rush to get ready for the next trail race and then the next marathon, the next trail race. So like, it's, do you, is it, are you finding it a a good problem to have this year? Yes, it's definitely a good problem to have. Yeah. More options. Of course, that's always better.
00:17:03
Speaker
Perfect. Okay. Well, that's good to know. um Okay. Well, let's get... We've obviously teased a bit. You came through Snowys 10 days ago now or so. First place. We did a quick preview on the main show. Your name was not on the list that we had. So as you said, you were quite a late late engine into it and threw quite a spanner the works. We were already excited about how that race was going to play out. You ended up winning by, i think, about 10 minutes over Mike Carroll, which is... like Mike is...
00:17:32
Speaker
And a very, very good trail runner, especially this sort of distance, these sort of trails. So take us through to like that start line, getting yourself up there. I'm guessing you didn't really know any of the people that were on that start line?
00:17:45
Speaker
I knew. so Michael Kernaghan, the one that told me about the race, he told me about ah Ben, Benjamin Butler. No, sorry, Ben Burgess. He had done that. I think the ADK in the world champs last year came And he also told me about Josh Godding. He came third in the two base 56 this year.
00:18:04
Speaker
yeah so I knew about them too and I had a look at them. I thought, okay, yeah, that's going to be good fun running with them. But I had no idea about Mike Currell Benjamin Baller. I didn't know who they were. So okay going into the start line, I just – so, yeah, I get a bit of context as well. The two weeks before the race and three weeks before the race, I'd done two training runs which were both a marathon and a 40K. And they were also on trails – in the hills, similar elevation to this course. So I thought, look, I'm just going to treat it like that.
00:18:34
Speaker
Just go out a bit bit about the same effort or maybe a bit harder. And then, of course, the last 10K is part of the race, of course. Like you always got that in. You just got to get that out of yourself. So that was my thought process going into it.
00:18:45
Speaker
The only unknown, well, two unknowns, was one, the altitude, but it wasn't too much. I thought I shouldn't worry about that. And two, the pack. or I had to obviously wear a pack. I hadn't done any of my training in the pack, so I thought, oh, Is that going to be bumping? Am I going end it chafing? Or is that going to annoy me? Is that going to mess up my running stride or anything like that? So I did a quick run. I'd quick run in it two days before that and it was mostly okay. There were a few final minute adjustments had to do the night before with my brother, but it turned out okay. Thank God. But yeah. Yeah, something that we kind of take for granted training with the pack, but if you've had no reason and it was such a last minute decision, um did did did you find it annoying to run with on the day?
00:19:27
Speaker
Nah, maybe like the first 2k because you had two liters of water that was required and I spit out probably 500ml straight away because obviously you need water but i didn't want to carry that much. I knew I only needed, yeah, probably only a liter before the Yeah.
00:19:42
Speaker
a station ah Yes, I spit out yeah about a quarter of it straight away. And it still felt a bit bumpy you know in my back, especially on that road beat. There's like 2K road from 9 to 10K. But as soon as I got into the TVT trial, I didn't even realize i had a pack on. I was like, oh, this awesome.
00:19:58
Speaker
like I was enjoying that trial. So, yeah. So, start gun goes off. Are you straight to the front or are you letting the other guys kind of take the lead whilst you work it all out?
00:20:11
Speaker
Well, I was looking at the horses because that opening ceremony was cool. And then I was probably like 200 meters. I just slowly made my way to like, you know, the front pack, not the front, but the front pack.
00:20:22
Speaker
Just, yeah, guess I'll see everything out, you know, what's going on. And then I think it was 2K in. I found myself at the front. I think it was Mike next to me, but I wasn't quite sure.
00:20:33
Speaker
and yeah, again, like I said, I was just going to do my thing, just start running, you know, course. And then, yeah, i just noticed he was dropping back, so I thought, okay, all right, let's go. I didn't really want to be first because, you know, I assume these guys knew the trail better than me. They had done these 50K events more than me in the trail, in their altitude more than me. So I thought, look,
00:20:53
Speaker
um They're probably thinking, oh, let's just let this guy go. We'll catch him you at or whatever. Oh, crap. you know I've got to got to hold this lean now. But i yeah, I think 10K went past and i think I looked at my watch. It was like 39 minutes something. thought, okay, I don't know where they're going to be But then it was, yeah, I was going through the TVT trail and the first five k I was like, I think I'm just pushing this a bit too much.
00:21:17
Speaker
Um, so I thought, look, I'm just going to pretend I'm on my own. I'm not in a race. I'm just going to enjoy this trail because it's awesome trail going along the snow river. Um, and if they catch me, then I'll just go on the back of them.
00:21:28
Speaker
So that was my thought process. Yeah. About 15 Okay. It's like, it's anything to look at the race as well. Cause like seemingly you've kept a pretty steady effort the whole time. Like what you went out with that first 15 K, did it feel like you, you were pretty confident you could hold that all the way to the finish?
00:21:48
Speaker
Uh, maybe that 10 to 15 split. I thought was a bit too much, especially on the trail because, again, that trail I'm not quite used to. And I knew, yeah, it was 20K long total, and I'd done that Qozi three years ago. so And that bit really screwed me over three years three years ago. So I had a lot of respect for that trail. So I think, yeah, at the 15K point, I said to myself, let's just get to thirty two k or 31K where the air station was.
00:22:14
Speaker
Let's just get there first, and then we'll go from there. And when you got there, was anyone giving you splits? So did you have any idea about how much a lead you did or didn't have? I had no idea. I didn't have any idea. But once you go past the aid station, you kind of look back around to the start of the resort.
00:22:34
Speaker
And I saw a few people there. And I don't know. I actually thought I might have been like third place. I recognized the guy. But it was probably like fifth place or something. But yeah, I don't
Endurance and Mentality
00:22:43
Speaker
know. So I thought I had a bit of a lead. But I didn't know how much. I had no idea.
00:22:46
Speaker
Yeah, it's about just looking at the your strata, it's about a 20-minute gap to the point where you get back to that same point. 20 minutes. Okay, no, that would not. exactly I think they're only four minutes back at that point or three minutes back.
00:22:57
Speaker
Okay. Then at that point, because obviously, yes, you're in the marathon. This is a lot longer than running a 220. You're out there for three hours, 45. And yes, you've done in the past. But are you feeling confident in your fueling and your hydration at that point that you're going to get you've got enough to get yourself all the way to the end?
00:23:16
Speaker
I'm very, I felt very confident in my endurance. The fact that I thought it was going to be four hours, that didn't bother me. The the distance or the time didn't bother me. It was just, yeah, the pace and yeah, the nutrition. I'm sure, I don't know if anyone's looked at my Strava, but I put on Strava what I'd eaten and then drunk.
00:23:33
Speaker
I still need to work on my nutrition a bit. So i was a bit I was a little bit worried about nutrition, but I was feeling fine energy-wise and all that. It was just my my ah my hip flexors and maybe in my calf a bit. I was feeling a bit bit of a tightness, but I was like, nah, I backed my endurance. My nutrition, yeah, I kind of felt okay. I wasn't worrying about that. I was just worrying about just running, I guess, yeah.
00:23:58
Speaker
This is brilliant. Sorry, Jess, I hadn't um expanded fully your description and I was just seeing what you did for your nutrition. So you had chocolate, not a chocolate jar chocolate at 7 and 34, then a chocolate gel at 14 and 20, some lollies at a marathon, orange slice, a couple, oh, that's not eating, that's actual animals. um Sorry. Yeah.
00:24:21
Speaker
Red belly snake and two lizards. I was like, that's a weird snack. um So you're obviously a ah fan of chocolate or or is this just what was there with you? Well, it's what I eat on my training runs and all that. And when I do my marathons, I have the chocolate goo. So it's just what I have. I i know and I keep telling myself,
00:24:40
Speaker
I need something better than that. I need to work on that. But it works at the moment. So I'll stick with it. love this. I love this. It needs a bit improvement. I'm pretty sure I messaged you this, James. I'm pretty sure I messaged. don't know it was you or someone else, but I literally copied that out of your Strava, Michael, and sent it to someone and be like, if this guy gets his nutrition right, this is going to be bonkers. Yeah.
00:25:01
Speaker
Yeah. It's funny because ah at the 34k mark, I had a Mars bar and it took me, I think it took me one and a half K to eat the Mars bar. That's yeah. It's just what I'm used to say. I had a bar. I just took little bites. I thought, I got to get this down. You know, yeah you know you need this bar. I had nothing else. I thought, okay.
00:25:19
Speaker
Isn't this, this is like what Vlad said he used to do back in the day. Like this is old school nutrition. Yeah. Old school. I'll be refreshing to those people that feel like they can't eat too many carbs. It is possible. Whether or not Michael could have run a lot quicker he was having carbs, we don't know. Well, I don't know. It's funny you say because when I finished, like i find I found I had a bit of a lot of energy throughout the rest of the day. I was just really sore muscular-wise, so that's what slowed me down. So I guess my nutrition was okay, but...
00:25:49
Speaker
Just needed to ah throw a protein bar in there and you would have been sorted. Yeah. yeah It is like, it's it's always an interesting question because we have like this optimal fueling and hydration strategy that's like the individual, but we kind of know everyone's talking about high carb or at least getting like just carbs, not chocolate bars in for a four hour run, but it worked for you. You won the race. You smashed some yeah really good trail runners whilst you were doing it. So I'm not saying don't experiment, but it's clearly wasn't a bad thing for you on in the day.
00:26:19
Speaker
Well, getting let's put it that way. yeah Yeah, it's it's somewhat refreshing because I think these days we get slammed with so much ah sports nutrition marketing that it all becomes so hot that we need to be doing everything. and And whilst, yes, I probably agree that Michael could have done a little bit more, but maybe he needed to train it beforehand. So maybe he did the right thing anyway. But like, yeah, maybe we we could all focus a little less on it.
00:26:43
Speaker
well I always just think at the end of the day, food's food. need food. any food But make sure, yeah, your your gut is used to the food that you're going to have on on the day. that's all That's all I think. I actually wanted watermelon because I had watermelon on a few other races and that really works with my stomach. But at the aid station, they only had the orange slices. I thought, i okay, I'll go off for the orange slices. But If they had watermelon, I would have had so much watermelon, which I think is a ah ah better nutrition than chocolate.
00:27:09
Speaker
I also love the fact that you're taking the time to stop at these aid stations and grab the fruit and just be like, oh wonder what they have here. need a food. say No, no, no. no i'm i'm i'm not I'm not against it in the slightest. I think we we at this point we should say that Vlad has now gone into the whole like the opposite side of this so maybe maybe your your journey might take a little bit of a twist but it is um yeah it's I appreciate the uh the full rundown it's great and that anyone that loves chocolate I'm a fan of yeah yeah yeah I can yeah yeah any excuse to have chocolates there yeah
00:27:47
Speaker
So going coming out of that A station about 32k, you've done that loop around, you've seen some of the kind of back of the top 10. What's that last 18k like for you?
00:28:01
Speaker
Yeah, so it was 34, 35k, just had Myers bar. And that's when, yeah, i started it started yeah to get properly hard. I thought, okay, i really got to dig in mentally here. um I saw that snake at 37, so that was, I guess, a nice surprise. I guess it got me Alert again and, you know, back back up, ready to go. um Going up that, I think it was forty k There was a bit of a hill. So that was, you know, a bit of a challenge. I thought, okay, I'll just ease myself up here. Getting to the aid station, you know, i didn't edit I guess I didn't get worse. I just thought, okay, I've got to maintain this.
00:28:35
Speaker
um Yeah, went got to the aid station, poured a lot of water on me because it getting a bit warm at that point. Yeah, had a lolly. Yeah. And then, yeah, backtracked and I saw second place 600 meters behind me. So I thought, okay, that's about five minutes.
00:28:49
Speaker
And I don't know what I thought, but for some reason I was like, five minutes, that's really close. Okay, I've got to go. Don't let these guys catch me. Because I thought back to two bays and I'm not sure if we' mentioned yet, but I lost by 11 seconds.
00:29:01
Speaker
And um that was like a close race. And I remember thinking after I thought, I had a lot of energy at the finish line. I thought, sure. could have pushed more I had more in me I just couldn't find it so that came to me at the ah the 43k mark and i just thought okay now can't let these guys catch me i'm not not going to do that again I've got to get everything out of myself so that I was just on a I guess a bit of an angry rampage to the last 10k and that's that's what brought me home yeah I forgot how close it was between you and Toby at two bays like was that that was were you together for most of that race yeah
00:29:33
Speaker
i caught a He was on his own and then i caught him at, I think, like 14K or 13K. So we were together for about of that race. And then he, yeah, he searched that probably kilometer to go or kilometer and half to go.
00:29:48
Speaker
Yeah, and that was the break. Do you wear a heart rate strap when you run? no No. My heart rate data is not very accurate on my Strava. It's sometimes accurate, but sometimes it's typeless.
00:30:00
Speaker
I was gonna say it was incredibly low, but you can see that that there was a jump at the end. So I was having a look at it. it's And I'm guessing you never had any, i did once you had seen Mike in second, was there any moment that you look back from there or it's just full gas to the finish? No, no, just go. like I guess I'm one of those people that think if I'm looking back, like why? like I already got the mental... um motivation to just run.
00:30:24
Speaker
So I might as well just keep at it. um I think I did look back maybe a kilometer to go because I thought, because there was ah it was like a long stretch. I think I could see about 300 meters behind me. so I thought, if I can't see him here, i've kind of can kind of celebrate the last kilometer. And I couldn't see anyone. So yeah, that's what happened. So I thought, okay.
00:30:42
Speaker
And entering this, you obviously were aware that this was a ticket into the Asia-Pacific Champs. Yes. yeah Yeah. Okay, cool. So what was it? You finish, you've won the race. You know that you've punched your ticket to represent Australia in trail running.
00:30:59
Speaker
How does that feel? Well, as's I guess i well I actually did the race because one was in the snow mounds. I thought I want to go there again. And two, it was the national championships. I thought, look, i want it would be good to race a lot of trail runners. would be good fun. And, of course, I knew about the qualifications. But I finished and I thought – I was just more thinking about, oh, you know, I won. Like, I'm done. kind You know, finally. um It wasn't until the ceremony or the podium ceremonies – And the women went up first and he just announced like, oh, these two women are going to represent Australia for us in November. i thought, oh, that's so cool. I wish I was doing that. And I thought, oh, that's me. Like, oh, my God. So I thought, okay. Then then that I guess
Future Competitions and Aspirations
00:31:42
Speaker
that's when it hit me. I was like, okay, awesome. That was great. Like, so good, yeah.
00:31:47
Speaker
That's awesome. Guys, any questions for the race? actually i Sorry, it reminds me. Did you have to go through the finish line twice? Oh, yeah. Yes. Yes. Got to mention that. So, yes, I did. So when I finished, I, oh, sorry. When I got to like to kind of near where you finish, I took a wrong turn and probably ran about like 100 metres. And saw the finish line like way back. was like, hang on, I'm meant to be over there. I just asked an official and he said, yeah, no, go back. You're in the wrong place. So I have to backtrack 200 metres. So luckily it wasn't a close race. Oh, that would have been fun. And then, yeah, actually came into the actual finish.
00:32:22
Speaker
And I guess, yeah, they just didn't know i was finishing. I don't know. he They started announcing my name probably like 30 meters from the finish line. yeah um So, yeah, I think, yeah, they bit surprised.
00:32:35
Speaker
So I finished and, you know, well done, blah, blah, blah. And then he's like, oh, we didn't get any photos. Can please do it again? I was like, all right, sure. I had the bell on me. I think a lot of people saw the bell.
00:32:46
Speaker
I didn't take that off. Yeah. So I'll finish with the belt in the next time. And I think you can notice as well, I look a lot fresher. There was about two minutes or a three minute gap between me actually finishing in that recording. So I looked, I looked a lot worse the first time probably. That's great.
00:33:02
Speaker
I love those little tidbits from races. Like definitely not the best time I've heard that happening. And it's just like, Oh no, we have to get this guy. He's too fast.
00:33:12
Speaker
Wonderful. Anything else we haven't? Yeah, well, I guess, like, do you plan on putting your name forward for Asia Pacific Chance? Yes, definitely. Yeah, no, i definitely want to do it now. well um We were talking before.
00:33:24
Speaker
i think I still need to do a few more races to get into the top 30. We're not quite sure how it works, but I'll definitely, yeah, definitely keen on doing it. Definitely want to do it. um i've Yeah, I got the ticket, but i just need the points now, I think, so not sure about that.
00:33:38
Speaker
Yeah, last time there was like a way around the points, so definitely still nominate if you're outside the 30. Oh, Well, yeah, definitely going to nominate.
00:33:50
Speaker
Yeah. I reckon they'll be doing what they can to get you there, reckon. Yeah. Hopefully we can. we but We were scheming before, so hopefully we can make it happen, i reckon. Yeah, secretly we just want you to turn up to all of the events like you're actually in. Me and James are like, you should run at least six races before. of You can break your marathon times like another year. It's all good.
00:34:14
Speaker
ah You'll say that again next year and the year after, I'll never be back. Just get fast enough on a trail 50k that you break the marathon time within it. It's easy. It's super simple. Oh, what kind of trail? that be i but throw okay Michael, is there anything else from the race that we haven't touched on that you think, like anything that's particularly memorable for you or a good takeaway?
00:34:37
Speaker
um i guess the 10k to 30k stretch on that TVT track. Like, i yeah, I just got to say again, like, that's such a cool track. I i had so much fun on that. um It's just so isolated as well. I love that. Everyone was going on, like, you know, be careful and all that. thought, nah, this is going to be the best part. just Just you and the trail and, you know, some animals you see and you can hear the water and all that. That's that's why i wanted to come here especially. That was what I was thinking. And that's probably what I like most about running as well it is being out in the quietness and all that and just enjoying yourself. So for me, that was, yeah, probably the highlight of the race. um
00:35:12
Speaker
Yeah. If there's anything else, um, Oh no, I suppose not. Not at the moment anyway. My comment later. feel like you've just done the, ah the local tourism. They're a really big favor.
00:35:23
Speaker
Yeah. that's Well, that's why wanted to go. So yeah, no, no, no. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. And it's, yeah, she a lot of the same trails as all trail cause you've got at the end of the year as well. So plenty of opportunities of people are listening to this and getting inspired by Michael's run and his love of those, those single tracks. Um,
00:35:41
Speaker
Well, actually, i might ah might um might make what you just said the opposite. But when I did the 100K three years ago, that 20K stretch of TBT was I think the 70K mark to like the 90K mark. And it was I think it was like 30 degrees or 35 degrees in that stretch. I nearly ran out of water.
00:36:01
Speaker
And I think that stretch took me twice as long as it did last week. So I had a lot worse time there three years ago. could You could have it either way. Yeah, i know that one is like, that's a section of the race for a lot of people in the pack that in any training run, they would be absolutely fine running it.
00:36:19
Speaker
And in the 100k, they are death marching that annoying uphill the whole way. It's, um, yeah, I've definitely heard those stories a few times. Yeah. um So I'm keen to chat a bit about like your training if you want to yeah, move into sort of update, training updates. um But yeah, describe like a typical training week for you. Like what were you doing in the buildup for the Snowys 50K?
00:36:46
Speaker
ah The last three weeks before Snowys, I think I averaged a week, which is very high for me. I think they're nearly the three highest weeks I've done ever. um But my typical week is Tuesday and Thursdays, you know, workout like usual. um Nothing, probably like 10K worth of workouts each day. it's Yeah, each day. um on the Tuesday... We run on a grass track, which I feel like not many people do, and I find actually that helps a lot, especially stretching the muscles in my feet. I run around barefoot a lot on the Tuesday.
00:37:22
Speaker
ah Thursdays is on a gravel loop, and we do, yeah, and know roughly 10K worth of volume in that. um Then Monday, Wednesday, Friday is just easy running.
00:37:32
Speaker
and Wednesday is like a... um like a midweek long run. So I'd try and do 25K. That's typical. um Saturday depends on how i'm feeling. If I'm feeling crap, I just run 20K, like an easy 20K. But if I'm feeling okay, then I'll do a workout, maybe heel sprints or like a threshold.
00:37:51
Speaker
um And then Sunday the long run, which I always try and try and get to 40. That's like my my my baseline now. I've got to get to 40. So, yeah. Wow. yeah wow that's Do you do many doubles or is it all single? No, actually all all singles. So I think all those 160K a week were all in singles. So maybe a Saturday I might've doubled here and there, but that's it.
00:38:14
Speaker
And the days that are separating the the workouts, like your your midweek long, that casual 20K on a Saturday, is that on trails or is this is this all or roads?
00:38:24
Speaker
A bit of both. So usually Monday, Wednesday and Friday, I run from home into the Langmore and Florham Fauna, which has about 22k worth of trails.
Trail Running and Personal Connection
00:38:35
Speaker
So that's like my happy place. So I usually just, it's about 4k from home. So 4k there, you know, I do, you know, 10 or fifteen k in there and then run back home. Do you think you could do the model for running?
00:38:47
Speaker
Yes, it's it's actually, it's very underrated. Yeah, it's i spent I spent years running there, Michael, because I went to uni in Frankston, so I would always and go running. Such a good spot. I probably had yeah hold zero crowns because you would have taken them all, no doubt.
00:39:02
Speaker
Michael Cairnhan has them all. Yeah, sorry, that's true. michael That's my stomping ground. do Do you feel like you could do that same mileage in singles if you were all on the roads?
00:39:14
Speaker
ah Yeah, actually, I could probably do more, to be honest, because the roads, I think, is it bits yeah a bit easier, especially because i always wear thicker shoes in the four and four as well. And it's very sandy in there. So i actually feel feel like chops me up a bit. But I like that because it's just more training, you know.
00:39:31
Speaker
can't agree with that. And come the Thursday session, you feel like you've been able to like freshen up enough to get the quality out of it? from Sometimes. I think sometimes I do struggle with easy runs and I do them a bit too fast.
00:39:46
Speaker
um I have noticed some Thursdays Or maybe on Wednesday night I'll do like some strength training and I'll just push it a bit too much. And come Thursday, i'm like, oh, no, I can't get the rest out of myself today. um Yeah, still struggling with that. I know a lot of people struggle with that. But it's a good problem to have, I suppose. Like I'm still not exhausted on Thursday. Like I can still get a lot out of myself. It just means Friday I'm even more exhausted. And that probably means Saturday I can't do a it workout. Like I'll just do an easy 20. So that's that's the punishment of it.
00:40:15
Speaker
yeah and do you and dion see the 40k like i just saw one of the training runs you did um before snowy's which you did a very impressive kick down like the last what 10ks were averaging 330 to 350 gap um pace so like super super strong do you guys see that as a third session a quality workout or is that like yes yeah okay Yeah. well Well, I'm training for a marathon. So actually, yeah, you're right. Like the long run is a workout. And sometimes I think, i't know if it's the one you're looking at, but I did do the long run on a Saturday one time. yeah So that just turns into a workout.
00:40:51
Speaker
Yeah. No, it's impressive. Impressive training. Like you're, you've said you've had injuries in the past. How do you feel like your body is tolerating that workload in this last block? That was your highest load. Yeah.
00:41:05
Speaker
Well, it's maintaining, I suppose. It's hanging on, I guess. But no, I yeah i always have niggles. Everyone does. And I guess if you don't have niggles, you're not pushing yourself hard enough. But you've just got to find that fine balance between niggles and and the actual injury. So I i guess ah I think a lot about that. Like I'm always waking up, oh, what's sore? Or, you know, what's different from yesterday?
00:41:27
Speaker
how am I feeling on the run at 1K or at 20K? um Even, like, even in the shower? You know, i kind of do some exercise in the shower. I'm trying to think like, oh is that tight or how is that different to what it's usually like? But, um yeah, of course, under sixty k it's yeah, it's going to hurt. But that's the whole idea. Like you've got to get your body used to that and then you can start doing that.
00:41:50
Speaker
but You can maintain that for more, get easier, and then you go up to 170 or 180 and, yeah, repeat. Yeah, exactly. It's the the principle of you've to keep applying a new level of stimulus to make a change, right? you get Your body gets used to that. But now I find that i find the the all in singles interesting, not in a good or bad way, just in a, I'm seeing it more often, especially in tri-runners that are going more... I just do it just because it worked, to be honest. um And I find like, if I did two 10Ks instead of a I've got to warm up for another five minutes. I've got to put my shoes on twice. I've got to have prog maybe two showers, maybe not. You've just kind of got to do a lot of things twice. You've got hype yourself up twice sort of thing.
00:42:28
Speaker
And I find I'm a person as well. When I hit 10K, I'm like warmed i've like just warmed up and ready to go. yeah so if I just did 10K, I'm like, oh, I'm already done. like oh I want to keep going. So I just do 20. And I find it's just simpler that way.
00:42:42
Speaker
You are so made for the ultras. Like, yeah um um' like i'm i'm I'm super excited to see, because you're sorry, you said So i'm I'm very excited to see where you can get to in the marathon, but I'm also very excited to see what you can do on the trails. Like it's on, especially the longer stuff. It's, um yeah, you're definitely talking like someone that suits that. What does your hype up routine look like?
00:43:05
Speaker
ah For a run or for a race? Well, either, whichever, whichever. Well, for a run, i always run in the evening after work. So my high pop routine is just thinking about it the whole day. i'm like, oh, I'm going to run tonight. Oh, is it raining? Oh, you know, like what I'm going to do or going to think about. For me, all my runs, it's kind of like shower time or like meditation time. Like I just think.
00:43:27
Speaker
I i'll never listen to music. and and never I don't usually run with people as well, especially from right from home. um So, yeah, for that, I'm always just thinking like, What I want to think about or what but yeah what I'm going to do. As for the races, i i don't know. I kind of – I don't know. I'm not really sure about the races. Like I don't really have a routine to be honest. I just think back to training. I think, look, if I can do that, I can do this. Yeah.
00:43:55
Speaker
No, it's fair enough. It's yeah, I like it. It's you're very, obviously the people can't and see you, but there's a lot of like enthusiasm and emotion and hype for this. It makes it very fun to talk to and just see someone with so much like, yeah, just, don't know, enthusiasm for it. It's sick.
00:44:11
Speaker
Guys, I definitely got a, got a, yeah, I guess excitement back. Yeah. For for trails and well probably more for ultras. To be honest, I've always thought of myself more as ultras rather than trails, but a lot of the, Ultras are trails. So, you know, awesome.
00:44:27
Speaker
Yeah. And like, I would, I would personally much rather be coming into the trails as a two 18 guy than being a trail runner who then needs to try and get down to be a two 18 guy to be competitive because like, well, we're seeing over in the States now, two Oh nine to 10 guys is that's kind of the level for these runnable trails. And so yeah, I'd much rather be where you are than not.
00:44:49
Speaker
Yeah. And there's, and there's trail races that suit. 209 guys yeah there's trail races where you can you can get going and even like know snow is not probably what exactly one of those but it is like an example of the semi-runnable i guess yeah and you look at like the golden trail sorry golden ticket series goes to states like all of them a very good runner, just flat out runner. And I don't know if that's something that you've ever looked at Western States and that sort of stuff. I know about, yeah, Western States and the U2MB. Like you mentioned, a lot of 209 guys are into it. I know who Jim Walms is and I know he's probably capable of probably even faster than that. So I'm aware like these guys are very good runners on the road and obviously even better on the trail. So I still think like, oh, I actually think to be honest, like I need to get faster on the roads to go to Australia sometimes. Because, yeah, these guys are 209 guys, but I'm 218. So, um yeah, nine minutes difference. But, yeah, you've got to start somewhere.
00:45:49
Speaker
Oh, yeah. I think you're a bit better than somewhere. um In the interest of we've got quite bit to run through this week. you're somewhere, Michael, I don't know where I am. i'm I'm in a trash can. is is where A quick break in the show to thank Bix. Bix has just come out with their 30 gram gel in two brand new flavors.
Product Endorsements and Host Experiences
00:46:10
Speaker
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00:46:42
Speaker
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00:46:59
Speaker
It's been awesome getting to know and hit hear that recap. I think that um we'll definitely, or especially if this year is going to be a pursuit of the Asia-Pacifics, we'll have you on for a more in-detailed, longer form one, although we've managed to get 45 minutes already. But I feel like yeah we should move on to our training weeks to then get into specifically the Donner double preview.
00:47:20
Speaker
Jess, we haven't heard from you since Snowys as well. How did that go? what have we? Um, no, no, yeah, it was it was, fun. It was like my first race for the year. So good to get that underway. Obviously like, um, people would have heard last week, Sarah's recap. Um, so we ended up racing each other, which was a bit of a surprise.
00:47:44
Speaker
and um yeah we had a fun little event for last 500 meters of the race um so yeah it was it was like i love the tbt as well like i share that um love for the tbt it's you michael um i think it's one of my favorite trails that's why i was keen to do this race um And especially the bit that we did in the 20K, it's a bit I haven't done before because it's um not part of the COSY course.
00:48:15
Speaker
um And it's super remote. So they get even the 20K runners to carry two litres of water because there's no way to get any aid stations in that section of the course. um And it's just so beautiful, like just single track, flowy, like...
00:48:31
Speaker
super nice, like runnable, but like a little bit of spice here and there. um Saw a snake out on the trails, had to stop for a bit for that. So that was, I think it was the first time I've seen a snake in a race before. So bit exciting. um Yeah, just had to like stop and and then I kind of like kicked to the dirt a bit and then it moved into the bush. so Yeah. um And then, yeah i was pretty much like winning overall for most of the race. And then I was coming in, i knew I was like pretty close to the finish. And then ah the race ended up being like a K longer than what I thought it was going to be. So I was sort of like, i was like, where's the finish? Like looking at my watch. And then I had like noise cancelling headphones in. So i was like a bit um just in my own zone. And then I sort of turned around and Sarah was right there. So i was like, I literally said out loud like, oh shit. Yeah. just like sprinted because I luckily still had a bit left in the legs. um
00:49:30
Speaker
And then we sort of turned a corner and it got a little bit kind of like single tracky mountain bike little trails that are around that resort area. And I just, yeah, wasn't paying attention to my footing and just went down pretty hard. um Luckily, it like got up before Sarah reached me. But then, you know, yeah like after you have a bad fall, you're just kind of like a bit rattled. And yeah because we're on single trials, just like, oh, Sarah, you go past. Like, I don't think I'm going to be able to...
00:49:59
Speaker
move very fast right now so then yeah she literally took the win by like five seconds yeah it's like yeah obviously it must like putting the kind of event stuff to the side we spoke about last week was it quite fun to back into that race environment because you finished off last year feeling a bit kind of like you'd done one too many a bit a bit over yeah well i love that distance I think it suits me a lot more um I think I like that it feels like there's less logistics at play like i kind of just yeah I want to like be able to just carry like my nutrition and my water and not have to think about aid stations and stuff like that I don't know I just prefer that sort of style of racing um And like, I think like, because 20K feels so short for me now, like I can, like I'm i'm like brave, and like I'm confident enough to like just push it the whole time. Like I felt like um i like sort of, yeah, got my heart rate up pretty high, like early in the race and I wasn't worried about
00:51:05
Speaker
cooking myself because was like oh it's only 20k which sounds kind of crazy but like my perspective has just changed so much um after last year and doing like worlds which was like a seven hour race like it's just totally different yeah how are you feeling towards the rest of this year in terms of distance that you want to race Yeah, I'm just going to stay short up until OCC. So OCC will be like my long race for the year.
00:51:33
Speaker
um And then i'm not sure what I'll do after that. just depends on how I pull up. So yeah, I'll just be doing like 20K races. So Buffalo 20 is next. And then hopefully UTA, I haven't got an entry yet, so I need to try and sort out an entry. But if not, I'll find another local 20K race to do. Yeah.
00:51:54
Speaker
But yeah. it's good to It's good to see like the smile when you're recapping the race. yeah i had so much fun and like it's been really cool like just training with sarah and like seeing how strong she's gotten like after the return to pregnancy like it's just amazing like i don't know like it's like just to see from where she came from like and yeah it's just been really inspiring lately like being able to train with women like that um and yeah i just love i'm loving the sport at the moment like i feel like
00:52:28
Speaker
all the women are killing it. It's pretty, it's pretty amazing. Like we're just getting better and better. That's awesome. Are you able to train with Sarah much? Yeah, we live pretty close. um So yeah, we've done some easy runs together and like went out to the Brindabillas on the weekend. um She's obviously training for a hundred K so she's running a bit further than me at the moment, but she still puts me to the well on some of the climbs. So um yeah, that's fun.
00:52:54
Speaker
Yeah, that's really, that's good. was to ask Jess if you did a four hour run on the weekend because I saw Sarah was out for four hours and I was like, oh, you ran with Sarah. Did you do four hours? Yeah, it was actually so funny because I only the run for like two hours and um I thought I ran pretty well because she sort of did some efforts in her run.
00:53:13
Speaker
um So I did the last climb on my own because she turned around and did some efforts. And I felt like, oh, I did that last climb pretty well. And then I put it on Strava and I was like, oh yes, it was a personal best. So i was like, I've probably got the crown and then I got the crown and then she uploaded her four hour run and she beat me by like two minutes or something. i was like oh my God.
00:53:33
Speaker
Wow. Yeah. She's flying at the moment. Like I'm so excited for her hundred k Yeah. um When she said last week that she was going to do the 100k, I was like, that's cool. I'd be very excited to see her back into that that distance of race.
00:53:47
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. yep Brody, I've seen you have been all over the country in South Australia, down to Tassie. What's all that about? Yeah, yeah, all over the place. I went to South Australia for like a little holiday with Laura's family. So it was just like a weekend away. um But they always gather for the weekend once a year. So this year in South Australia, so i've made the trip across, which was cool, go somewhere different. um Maybe it wasn't many hills over there, but ah
00:54:19
Speaker
got a got a nice flat long run in um and then like hearing about michael's training it put my i thought i did some good running and i think he ran the 50k as fast as i did in my two 5k efforts so yeah um that was good and then yeah this weekend i was back down in tassie um uh yeah i'm like ah i'm a free agent now so i get to do some bits and pieces and i'm doing some stuff with find your feet um when stuff come up so it was like a ultra uh sort of activation weekend for them down there and they were partnering with find your feet for it so yeah i went down and was a part of that which was fun and yeah good excuse to go home as well um visit family and whatnot so yeah was good have you had a connection with find your feet for a while now
00:55:10
Speaker
Yeah, Find Your Feet's been the sort of my like ah long standing ah sort of connection. And that's sort of like assisted with actually starting with Solomon and other brands as well that I've had small involvement with. So yeah, they've always been really supportive of me. So like I try and do what I can to stay supportive with them. And I've done some guiding with them on some of the trail running tours before. so So it's it's good for me to stay and engaged with them because maybe I'll do a bit of that in future as well. So yeah, it was ah it was really fun weekend actually. So yeah, gone I've gone from elite athlete to influencer.
00:55:47
Speaker
er suhi how was the uh like there's some photos on your strive of everyone looking very ultra red and ultra yeah how yeah how we what what were you there i'm assuming assuming it the shoe launch through the experience wild three so the shoe Three plus. Yeah. it's like a new version of that shoe. I've never run in ultra before. So I'm not like super familiar with their shoes, but like I knew them as being a sort of zero drop shoe that they also have like a wide toe box. And I was really quite interested in the wide toe box. I've like had issues in narrow shoes of the past of my feet crunching a little bit, but then I also like a narrow shoe because I feel like I can
00:56:28
Speaker
cover technical terrain much much faster which is sort of like the bit that I love doing in trail running so yeah it was interesting to try that um we're up in Derby doing ah they have like lots of it's a big like mountain biking area so we're pretty much exclusively running on mountain bike trails um doing some pretty techy downhills and yeah they actually actually held up pretty good so yeah it was quite nice it's sort of like a more of a not like a race shoe it's more of this I guess daily trainer shoe for for trails um so it didn't it's not like yeah I wouldn't say that it felt outstanding or anything crazy like I would say this it wasn't very springy but um
00:57:08
Speaker
I think that's what you get when you have a shoe that's designed to be a bit more of a workhorse is you're not going to get that spring because a shoe that's a bit more springy won't last for as long. um So yeah, I think it was it was a decent shoe. And they're doing a, it's funny, that was the first stop on their on their activation tour and if you follow Outra AU, you might see some of the stuff they're doing but it's just crazy this sort of stuff they put into their marketing that they're they're going swimming with whale sharks in WA, they're going skydiving in Sunshine Coast, they're going whitewater rafting in New Zealand. So it's it's a yeah a lot of money being thrown at it so they for their um activation.
00:57:49
Speaker
I should have mentioned as well, I wear Ultra as well. That's what wore last week. There you go. Yeah. They're decent. so Shout out to Ultra. What shoe? or e The Via Olympus 2. That was the one I wore. So it's a bit of road shoe. It's a bit thicker shoe, but it's very cushiony, so I liked it.
00:58:07
Speaker
so what are you using for your marathons? No, so I use Ciccone for the marathon, the Elite 2, but everything else is an Ultra. Yeah, okay. Because I'm a very wide foot and like you said, they have a very wide toe box and it's so good. like I like it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:58:23
Speaker
And do you have ah do you use the zero drop? I think most of the shoes are zero drop versions. They're only just starting. Yeah, all zero drop, yeah. I had a lot of calf tightness and its calf issues and then I moved to them and nothing after that. So, yeah, I like it. Wow, that's amazing.
00:58:36
Speaker
That's really interesting. i would have thought that's counterintuitive, but probably you've strengthened up your calf so much that it's it's not so much an issue anymore. Yeah, I suppose, I sort of found that a little bit. So this version had a four mil drop in and I was also running my athletics in it. So I probably had maybe more like a six or an eight.
00:58:53
Speaker
um But I did find that my Achilles felt like it was working more while we were running, but then like I pulled up pretty well afterwards. And I think maybe this shoe is actually not a bad training shoe to to work on Achilles and calf strength in general. So, yeah, it's an interesting thought maybe and that's maybe why it was useful for you.
00:59:12
Speaker
As long as you introduce it properly and smart, I guess, if you just go to it seven days a week straight away, you're going to get injured. So just you know do two times a week, three times a week or whatever and suss yourself out, I suppose. That's what I did. yeah And I remember, yeah, it worked for me and, yeah, haven't gone back.
00:59:28
Speaker
The benefit running you do, Michael, is that something you've introduced because of the calf issues? The amount of what? You said you do some barefoot running? Oh, yeah, on the grass, yeah. i Just because I like it, I suppose. And I guess I want to strengthen all the muscles in my foot as well that's because I feel like that's lacking because we wear shoes all the time. So just to save myself from plantar fasciitis or something like that down the road, I try and just make sure i do 10K worth of barefoot running you know every week just to keep the stimulus there.
00:59:57
Speaker
Yeah, feel feel the grass through your toes. It's quite free. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sounds like Ultra is definitely the brand for you then, Michael. I'll hook you up with some contacts.
01:00:10
Speaker
um Yeah, so down in Tassie, it was it was um that's pretty good. Good weekend. We had a sauna in Derby as well, which was fun. I enjoyed that. I've been wanting do that for years. You said your Achilles pulling up stuff. Is it still giving you more grief? Yeah.
01:00:26
Speaker
Not more grief, but like, I don't know. i'm so i mean, I'm in a big hole that I'm slowly coming out of, very slowly. But the longer it goes, the the deeper I think the hole I made. So, yeah, it's frustrating. Like I've had down days, like I said something, like I'm i'm running with Kate quite a bit at the moment and like,
01:00:47
Speaker
It's great i'm being able to do more running with other people because I'm less ah like i'm less restricted, which is good. But I'm still like, ah I'll have to let you know if I can run with you because I'll have to see how it pulls up.
01:01:01
Speaker
um And I must have messaged her that a few times in a row. And and then next time I went and and and ran with her, I was chatting to Lockie, um who's my physio, and he was he was sort of saying,
01:01:12
Speaker
Oh, like Kate said, you said this, like, what's how's it going? And was just saying it's sort of like it's just there. It's always there. it's It's not it's not it doesn't feel like it's going anywhere right now. And I really have to zoom out to sort of stay positive about it. But that being said, I have been pretty positive about it. Like I'm slowly building mileage. I'm slowly building what I can do all with some level of symptom, either during in or after or the next day. But like not in a way where it's getting worse and it's worse than what we're happy with. So that's the main thing. I've just got to make sure that I don't let that creep up because that's what I've done for the last three years is sort of like let that creep up to the uncontrollable point. um So as long as I continue on my current
01:01:59
Speaker
trajectory, I'll be fine and maybe this time next year I i won't be talking about it but it's it is it's just a long, it's a long hole unfortunately. So yeah, don't give yourself an Achilles problem because they will be the bane of your existence.
01:02:13
Speaker
Yeah. or Especially don't make it go chronic. Don't just keep. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I just, brought it up I just had a look back kind of end of February last year to see what you were doing. And a lot of bike sort of last week, last year, you were just getting to continuous running, but like 19th of February, it was five by four minute run, one minute walk.
01:02:34
Speaker
so you're right. Like when you, when you do look back, i know probably just still feels like you would have hoped to be further ahead than where you are now from there but you're still doing a lot more than what you were yeah definitely definitely and and and of the things i can do as much as i can because like there will be some element of some like sensitization from my my brain just being fully like really aware of my achilles that i try and focus out and focus on what i can do more than the symptoms unfortunately i also have to somewhat focus on the symptoms to make sure i don't do too much
01:03:06
Speaker
but um yeah i try and i try and zoom out as much as i can like i'm doing plyo stuff i can hop i can directional hop um i couldn't do that for a few years probably i don't think so so like i skipped a lot of steps to run a lot when i shouldn't have and um now i can sort of run and do that stuff so it is it is definitely getting better but like Yeah, yeah it's it's funny every time I hear someone like Michael talking about their running where like they're a bit younger and I sort of wish I continued on my trajectory and didn't let injuries creep in because like in 2021 I was running 140 Ks comfortably without issues, that sort of stuff. And that just feels like a really long way away still. so
01:03:49
Speaker
yeah Anyway, it's ah is it's it's pretty positive. and like ah I don't know. i'm just enjoying running. um what's Sort of similar to Jess. like I'm loving being in the sport.
01:04:00
Speaker
I'm loving being able to participate. That's probably the main thing. And yes, I still want to perform and whatnot, but I'm not going to gain anything by rushing it. So I'm just just cruising.
01:04:13
Speaker
That's a good place to be. Just lean into being an influencer and then you don't have to worry about results. yeah so You can still go on this the ah the front of the ah the start line, but you just don't have to run very fast. Yeah, you just have to get this you just have to get the camera out with the selfie stick or something. That'll be me at Donna Double. I'll have the selfie stick. That'll be great content for the podcast. Please do that.
01:04:37
Speaker
You catch all the guys running away from you as you're trying to work out your co-prime. Well, that, I guess, kind of how you summed up how you're feeling right now about the sport and Jess, yourself as well. That's kind of segue nicely into
Injury and Recovery Journeys
01:04:50
Speaker
my update. Like it's building back.
01:04:53
Speaker
It's slow, but it's progressing, but it's very much those same feelings. Just incredibly grateful for... The fact that we actually can do this and can start to enjoy some runs again. Like it's, I don't know why, but I look, I look back and it's like over a year ago is when the stress fracture first came up and sort of had 16 weeks off built back for 11, 16 weeks off. And now I think I'm back to 17 weeks or so since, since then. And This morning did 11k with 300 meters. And apart from the fact that after that 300 meters, my legs felt ruined.
01:05:28
Speaker
It is not a worry anymore, which, yeah, when you can run and not be, not stressed, every step is going to break you. It's quite a nice feeling. um but yeah it's just it's a good a nice place to be where yeah the the performance isn't there i'm running like a lot obviously it's slower and sloppier than i used to but it's just good to be on a forward trajectory that this time isn't hopefully gonna re-injure myself
01:05:56
Speaker
Sounds like we've got to make sure we keep getting guests on so that we can um talk to people who are running. what you agent to be I don't know, Brody, how much you're doing right now. um But like last week for me was, I think it was like 60K across five. Oh, that's awesome. Sorry, I didn't mean that to sound so offensive. i was a No, no, it's absolutely fine. it's I expect nothing less. um it's like It's getting there and i I can kind of up to a point over the next few few weeks just increasing. can't remember if i said this before or not, but my my coach, who's my Cairo Luke, he said I can do speed or I could do trails. And I'm so fed up of running around flat loops for the whole return to run and trails is what I love doing. So I was like, I'll choose trails. And we brought strides in last week.
01:06:43
Speaker
And I already feel a little bit poppier off the ground after four days of them. And then, yeah, I can increase 30% of my elevation like weekly for the next few weeks. So I think this week we I'll hit 1000 meters again and then I'll get up to about 12, 1300 the week after. and then we'll have sort of down week and start to bring in some speed work again, which that's probably got the biggest block.
01:07:05
Speaker
for me because just an impact and loading perspective and like when i got injured i was definitely for the trail marathon but also on the roads i was by far the fastest i'd been and it's quite intimidating to go back into a session knowing that if i was doing one minute reps at this pace i'm probably doing them at a minute and a half slower now or whatever it's going to be so that's yeah it's a little bit daunting to be honest but but exciting at the same time Are you doing any pliers to like prepare yourself for that? Yeah. We've from a strength perspective,
01:07:45
Speaker
I think maybe week eight of the time off, I've started strength work and probably within four weeks, we were doing some really low amplitude plyometrics and I've been doing drop jumps, bounding hurdle hops, multi-directional for, don't know, for the last 12, 16 weeks or so. So from that perspective, I feel really good. Like I, when I,
01:08:12
Speaker
but if I look at myself in the mirror whilst I'm doing pogos, I'm a lot more reactive and a lot more springy than I ever was before. And we're doing a lot of like, um, very short rep overcoming isometrics. So just like driving into a bar that can't move to build that stiffness through both the knee and the ankle. So I go from that perspective, that side of things i feel really good and doing the hill strides like they're still they're a bit off where was but the i guess more neural side of things is performing pretty well it's just i think it's ah that translation is going to be a little bit clunky once we start going a bit more aerobic because i'm breathing quite hard to not run very fast for me
01:08:50
Speaker
but yeah it will uh no it's it's it's a good it like i think now as well is that it i'm at the point where i'm like i'm starting to think about things in the future but also try not to get too excited about getting it back into an event for myself but it's feel like each week that i take off now it's like okay i can think about it and get a bit more like trusting that i'll make it yeah awesome um oh we also um have to say welcome to the 30s club thank you happy birthday thank you i appreciate it yeah it's um uh a few people have asked me that like how i feel just said i just feel like my age starts with the right number now for how i felt for probably the last five years um i think everyone you know whether i see
01:09:37
Speaker
I said this, James, that I was talking to my friend. I i had a beer with him down in in Lonnie and I was telling him how like once you're over 30, you just lose you lose track of how old you are. You actually just don't know. it doesn't matter how old you are because you're over 30. Whereas like before 30, you were like, oh, shit, I'm nearly 30. I'm 28. Oh, shit, I'm nearly 30. Like you're always thinking about 30. Once you go over 30, it doesn't even matter because like he asked me how old I was and I was like, oh, I'm 31. And then my friend was like, no, you're turning 32 this year.
01:10:04
Speaker
And it's just like, you forget. And then this random who was sitting just behind us was like, excuse me. Yes, that's exactly how it is. Yeah. It's also...
01:10:16
Speaker
I've always looked older than I am. Like when I was 16, you'd get served because you looked 20, whatever it was. And so have people, it's' it's more, I'm looking forward to people just saying like, oh, you look a lot older than what your age is. And I'm like, thanks. drink and
Trail Running Governance and Community Involvement
01:10:32
Speaker
hot' Hopefully I can stop looking like a 40 year old and like a 30 year old. That'd be nice. You're just coming into your own. and You're just peaking.
01:10:40
Speaker
Yeah. Thank you. yeah Thank you. believe Hairline can peak with me as well. That would be lovely. Yeah.
01:10:47
Speaker
and Cool. as So i just going to give a quick, we did a shout out for questions. A bunch of the questions that came in were about the Ultra release that came out yesterday. um This would have gone to members only via email. And then they did also put up an article on the website.
01:11:05
Speaker
which I will ask Sim to link in the show notes so people can go and read it. But I'm just going to read it through the email they sent through. We're not going to expand on it any further than this right now until both sides um have commented on it more formally. So this is just to kind of with the update, but to answer the questions at the moment, we don't have anything more than what this says. So...
01:11:25
Speaker
Dear members, we wish to inform you that Gary Mullins and Geoff Russell have resigned from their roles as President and Vice President of the Australian Ultra and Trail Running Association effective immediately. On behalf of the committee and membership, we sincerely thank both Gary and Geoff for the dedication and leadership during what has been a particularly challenging term for the association.
01:11:42
Speaker
Gary has contributed significantly over the many years, not only his his role as President, but also previously as a State Representative and as a member of the selection committee. His commitment to the sport and to the association has been greatly valued. Jeff has likewise made a meaningful contribution, particularly through his work with the trail subcommittee. We are pleased to advise Jeff will continue his involvement with the trail subcommittee moving forward.
01:12:02
Speaker
In light of these changes, the trail, the committee has resolved to bring forward the annual general meetings to 26th of March, formal notice of the AGM, along with the appropriate documentation will be distributed in accordance with the required 14-day notice period. We'd also like to reassure members the association remains fully operational and continues to progress the important work currently underway.
01:12:22
Speaker
We thank you for your ongoing support and look forward to providing further updates shortly. Kind regards, David Martin, Acting Autra. president so everyone if you've stayed with me whilst i've read that out um really the key thing to take away from there is that if you have any interest in the state of the sport and this doesn't just impact the lease this impacts how we experience events um what the sport from a high level is valuing about from a participation perspective and you are not member of ultra yes i think it's 50 bucks or 49 bucks for the year it's been a pain the ass to pay but if you want to have a say you want to have
01:12:56
Speaker
your voice heard or your vote matter, please before the AGM on 26th of March, that's the day before Buffalo stampede and K'Nani mountain run. um Please do sign up, join the AGM, vote, contribute.
01:13:09
Speaker
um
Race Preparations and Strategies
01:13:11
Speaker
And then that will, we'll will will know more after then about what the go is going forward.
01:13:20
Speaker
Cool. That done. Don't want a double preview. Brody, how are you feeling?
01:13:30
Speaker
ah oh Sorry, I thought I was muted. no um Yeah, look, ah to be honest, I'm actually feeling pretty good. Like last time I ran Donna Double, I was in actually quite a similar position.
01:13:46
Speaker
um i just set off my left Achilles actually at the start of 2024. um And I've been battling my right one pretty badly since the end of 2023. So like not actually too dissimilar.
01:13:57
Speaker
um And I managed to pull together an OK race that day. um So yeah, from that side of things, from a fitness side of things, I feel like it's okay. um I've been out to do the course twice just to make sure in line with like what I was saying before, I don't want to do something that's going to push me over the line.
01:14:17
Speaker
um I went out and did it twice just to check how the Achilles responded and it didn't blow up. um And the second time I went a bit harder on maybe 60 of the uphill and i did some of the downhill hard as well so um i sort of feel like i put it through its paces and and it it didn't hate it so yeah give me the confidence that like it's okay to race um so yeah i'm looking forward to it like i probably wouldn't have raced if it was just on a double we're going to get to some of the the pros to racing in a moment um
01:14:54
Speaker
But yeah, I'm excited to get out there and and get amongst it. And yeah, it's been enjoyable training with Kate and Nathan. I was out there running on course with him as well. So yeah, it's been an enjoyable process just to get to race day.
01:15:07
Speaker
um So yeah, I guess overall I'm feeling confident enough. And yeah, we'll just see what happens. ah Sounds like if you've been enjoying it, the ah you've already won, right? so it goes yeah yeah exactly So this is the Golden Trail...
01:15:24
Speaker
National series final, but the only race for this, this year with that we're seeing probably the outside of UTA, the biggest prize purse for a podium that'd be correct in saying, reckon in the country? i think think think Yeah, I'm pretty appreciate I think think UTA is just a little bit higher being being the um area major. But so both in the men's and women's is equal. It's five grand for first, three grand for second, and one and a half grand for first. And then in the under 23 race, both men and women will get one grand for first place. So that's really cool to see.
01:16:00
Speaker
The other side to this as well is that both first male and female overall will get a full ride to the World Series final in South Korea in October. um Well, did try to find out if this would roll down. I don't think it does. So it's kind of... i think sim Sim just let us know that she thinks it does. Oh, okay. Beautiful. right well then she asked i think she I don't know if she asked Warburton Trail Fest or Solomon, but um yeah she seems confident that that it will roll down, I think.
01:16:28
Speaker
Sweet. Okay, cool. no Well, that makes it a very interesting conversation. So this is definitely the first time we've seen cash like this at all. We sort of hoped that the mix of money and full ride to go and race the best in the world in South Korea might pull some names, and as Brody alluded to. At least the cash side of things was being attracting enough to get him onto this the start line. I think the big thing with this course is that it it's ah what one and a half k of flat river trail straight up for 1,200 meters, 1,300 meters, turn around, come back down, flat river trail to finish. So it is a very classic up-down course,
01:17:06
Speaker
twenty k Yeah, 1300. Brodie, you've been on the course most recently. like What are the conditions like out there? Yeah, like I think it's i run I've run at Donner a lot. um Before I even considered racing it, I was out there training on it and it's such a cool place to go just to challenge yourself because it's like a 600, 700, maybe it's 800 meters in like 3K or something. Like it's a really steep section, which is pretty unique um for this part of Victoria and maybe in Australia in general.
01:17:42
Speaker
um So yeah, it's it's such a cool place. I think the trail always to me looks pretty similar. um Usually in the lead up, it's a bit more overgrown um because there is, ah yeah, they they do some trail maintenance just before the race. um So anyone who's been out there recently, um there's probably...
01:18:05
Speaker
yeah it will probably better than what you experienced it i assume that's exactly what that's what it was like in 2024 anyway um and it's a lot clearer but um yeah it's it's mostly a single track um with a sort of leaf dirt cover and a bit of sticks and stuff here but it's not i wouldn't say it's like overly technical but it's just quite difficult because it is so steep for that sort of 3K section that's got a lot of about 800 meters and you go up and down that section. So that's probably like the crux of the course, I guess.
01:18:41
Speaker
um And it it it makes a big difference in the overall results, both who can climb it fast and who can descend it fast. Both sort of equally is important because it is so steep.
01:18:53
Speaker
um So yeah, it's definitely one that i has been attractive to me and was in 2024 and is again because the downhill element evens the the scale for me when I'm racing against these incredible climbers. um So yeah, it's it's a it's an all all ah evener for trail running and maybe a hack race for those people that don't like those that are very good at descending.
01:19:15
Speaker
it I was looking at the course record. So in the men's, it's held by Michael Curnahan, 149.30 and for Laura Hamilton in 204.16. In both cases, they are both, I'll say significantly, a matter of a minute maybe two minutes, faster than anybody else the summit. But both of them are only in the, I said i don't think Michael's in the top five in the descent, but...
01:19:36
Speaker
They're sort of, they were good enough on the descent to hold that lead. And Lara's case, she was, human she was fourth or fifth, um but they're clearly such strong climbers. Do you think that we've kind of got to the point where the climber that can descend well enough is going to win this over the person that can climb like good, but can descend like crazy? Yeah.
01:19:58
Speaker
its ah It's an interesting one because it's it's the it's the same both ways. So it's like if you can climb well enough but you're really good at descending, you're as good as whoot's someone who can climb really well and is good enough at descending. Like it's the same both ways. I would just say that for me compared to Michael Kernighan, he's...
01:20:16
Speaker
he's i'm not good i'm not close enough to him in terms of his my climbing ability whereas someone like billy curtis um or even max taylor those guys are maybe a bit closer well ah billy particularly he's a good example because he climbed better than me in 2024 um and he descended the same, if not a little faster than me. I can't remember. We were pretty similar.
01:20:38
Speaker
So like Billy's a good example of his climbing was good enough to put him in the picture, whereas my climbing that day was not good enough to put me right at the top. um So yeah, it it can go either way, but either way you have to be good enough at the other one to still be competitive.
01:20:54
Speaker
As i was asking that question, I kind of realized I'd put myself into a corner of just asking the exact same thing. i was like, oh. Yeah. Well, if you look at Michael in 2024, he also ran that. I passed him on the descent. Yeah.
01:21:05
Speaker
His descent wasn't good enough for him to be competitive. But then he'd come back the year after and his descent was good enough for him to get the course record. His descent must have improved a lot. i think he probably also got a little bit quicker on the climb, but like it improved his descending. Yeah.
01:21:20
Speaker
He did a lot of practicing in New Zealand the two months before that race and Elvis he showed. Makes a big difference. Yeah. There's also a flat-ish section at the top, which you can make a lot of time up if youre do you do the uphill well, I suppose. So that's also a bit of a factor, I reckon.
01:21:36
Speaker
Definitely. Definitely. Yeah. Definitely. It's like there is a momentary downhill as you turn onto that road and then, yeah they're coming, coming back around. Even, even once you do get that steep pinch done, you cross the road and you get onto that gravel fire road bit. Like that's not steep. It's probably what, 10% give or take. Yeah. After you get to the top of that. It's not steep at all.
01:21:56
Speaker
I think it's called Mount Victoria. I don't know what it is, but from there to Donna is like maybe two and a half K and it's pretty flat ah both ways. So you have a section on the plateau where you are actually, you actually can run quite fast.
01:22:12
Speaker
Yeah. um it's slightly downhill one way slightly uphill the other so again it's if you can maximize your downhill and run really really quick but also you have to be strong enough to run fast on a slightly uphill so it's yeah it's it's it's a very varied course it's quite it's quite um it's quite cool that there's so many many different aspects to it but it is also incredibly brutal and like speaking to kate she was like it's not It's not a race where you go, I really want to well, some some people do, but like it's it's it's not a race where everyone goes, i really want to put myself through that.
01:22:45
Speaker
and Yeah, it's, it's, it's a course where the uphill intimidates me, but the downhill excites me, which I know it will be the complete opposite for a lot of other people. Um, but yeah, Michael's put it down. Um, but but like you you do, but especially with that top section, like you've got to be a very good runner. as we'll talk about when we do, do the preview shortly, like you you have to be fast to have a the turnover to come down that slight gradient. Like you've got to be able to run for the men's field.
01:23:14
Speaker
sub 330s probably at that point and it feel okay mechanically like like you're not having to work super hard to run that on a negative five six percent and probably for the women happily going sub four even even faster than that so you you do have to be quick and yes it is a super steep descent which that speed then kind of negates itself a bit um but i know i i like i like this course because yes it suits a climber yes it suits a descender but there's all we we focus on that kind of one main section, but the start and the top, as we said, Michael, like they just suit a good runner.
01:23:46
Speaker
And so you have to put it all together, which is fun. Where does this course rank in its brutality, I guess, amongst the Australian, all all Australian trial runs?
01:23:57
Speaker
at The 20K distance? or Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're definitely Victoria biased just based off density of racing. I would say like the first one that comes to mind that's a lot more brutal would be the 1D Cross 20, like it's 27 now, but historically it's been in that.
01:24:17
Speaker
I'd say there's not that many harder in terms of the amount of elevation change in distance. courses out there but this isn't i would not call this technical from a to to underfoot perspective like the descent it depends what you call brutal i guess i would say it's one of the the the hardest courses i've done but then again like you always if you're pushing yourself to the limit any races ends up being hard yeah like comparing it brodie to the kmr How would you say the two of them? I actually found Kmart harder in terms of because there's a few small climbs at the end and you've got to do them in the middle of the descent, which is pretty brutal.
01:25:04
Speaker
Whereas this one is like... You just got to survive. that is The hardest part of Donna for me, even though I love the descent, is pushing on the descent and pushing through that like my quads feel like I've done 100 squats.
01:25:19
Speaker
Yeah. Pushing, continuing to push when you feel like that. That's probably the hardest bit for me in that race. But then once you hit the bottom, you've got like a K and a half. And whilst that's not very comfortable, you can sort of limp your way through it.
01:25:31
Speaker
um yeah Unfortunately, Kmart more has some like climbs at the end. So yeah, I think any race that finishes the downhill is, even if that downhill is really steep, is probably not as hard as if there's a few final climbs for me yeah anyway. i know I agree. I think that having said that, there'll be people at the moment listening and going, wait, what about that climb?
01:25:51
Speaker
What, five, six of the way down, Donna, where you've you've crossed the aqueduct, you've gone down past the the the farm, and then it has this like little pinch that it isn't big climb. That one's pretty, that one is hard, but it's also like 15, 20 meters of elevation. It's not like climb.
01:26:10
Speaker
I know, but you've just spent the last however many minutes it is, 30 minutes sending it. Your quads are like, I am done with this right now. And then you can't, especially at the front of you cannot back off on that moment. And then you summit it and then you've got to go down a 25% or 20% bitumen road. That is the worst part of the course. That road is awful. So yeah, it's nasty. Especially how your body is treated the next day. I've never been as sore as I was the day after running Donner.
01:26:41
Speaker
a Yeah, well, it is because it's so runnable. The climb is so, the descent is so runnable. It's not like you have to go slower because of the technical challenge. You can go full out.
01:26:52
Speaker
Yeah. I don't think it was runnable. hard work. Are you allowed poles in this race? I don't know if you're not allowed. Yeah, I think maybe you are. I don't know. I haven't actually looked into it before, to be honest.
01:27:10
Speaker
Okay. Cause there was a couple of questions about that. Yeah.
Women's Race Preview
01:27:14
Speaker
I'll just, why don't you get us started on the women's preview for the course? Um, go through some of the key names have got your attention and I'll go through the website to see if I can work out that, that question.
01:27:26
Speaker
Yeah. um Cool. So yeah, the women's field has scraped together a pretty strong um start line. So um first up, we've got Lucy Bartholomew. So she's coming off um the Tarawara where She didn't have her ideal race, so I'm sure she's going to be coming into this one um with a bit of redemption to make, I think. And like we saw last year like this sort of turnaround isn't going to affect her too much.
01:28:01
Speaker
because i think she's just been in the sport for so long that she's just obviously so conditioned um and she seems to bounce back really quickly. So i definitely wouldn't count her out as being someone that could definitely take out the win. um She's super experienced on this course as well. um I think she's definitely raced it a few times in earlier years. And she does have some of the Strava segments, or she's very close to the course record on some of the Strava segments. So she's five minutes off the course record for the descent. And she is about...
01:28:41
Speaker
ah
01:28:44
Speaker
third on that 5K segment of the climb, so the steep segment. Yeah, and I think James put that in there from her run the other day where she sort of did a wrecking and she said, easy, Donna. so Yeah. um okay It was thought that's very good
01:29:05
Speaker
yeah I reckon that was the most screenshot Strava of the last two weeks. was like is she act Was that actually easy? Was that actually easy? Yeah, it's I was talking to someone about this, about Bogor. Oh, yeah, because Hayden Barnett did um a like easy Bogor request-a-thon recce.
01:29:24
Speaker
And I don't actually think he ended up doing the race very much faster. And like how... You might think you're ages away from the red line on a climb, but actually you're ah potentially a lot closer than you realize. And once you do step over that, it's it's done. Like you're in a world of pain. And so I, yeah, I wonder, Lucy may go up and smash that CR or she' match Lara's time up there or or was that actually a lot closer than maybe she felt it was at the time?
01:29:53
Speaker
Yeah, it's hard to know. I mean, yeah we'll just have to wait and see. But I think a lot of people do fall into that trap sometimes of just doing recce runs too hard, um especially if you've got like a couple weeks in between, like you sort of, you probably think, oh, you've got enough time to recover. But especially on a course like this, like you can really bang the legs up and that sort of, the DOMS can stay with you for a while, especially if you've done 100K only a couple of weeks before that. So yeah. But I mean, she's proven that she can do it. So we'll just have to wait and see. That's going to be so interesting to see how she races.
01:30:29
Speaker
Yeah. And then next up, we have Andrea Kolbenstoyder. Sorry, I've lost my mouth. But um so the lady from Sweden?
01:30:46
Speaker
She's from Iceland. Iceland. Iceland. um Who came over for Trail Kosciuszko 50 last year and won the race and had an epic day. Like...
01:30:58
Speaker
showed all of us Aussies that she's a very good runner. And she was also at the World Mountain Running and did the long trail. So came 13th there in a pretty stacked field as well. So, um yeah, she's definitely like a world-class runner and she's going to be one that's that'll definitely be there to win. um She's obviously interested in doing some Golden Trail this year, which I'm guessing is why she's come over for it, um which is pretty cool. I think like a lot of the stuff that she's done previously is like a bit longer, so it'd be cool to see how she goes in the shorter stuff.
01:31:42
Speaker
Yeah, i I requested to follow her on Strava and she's very kindly let me. So I was wondering, because we saw her here because has she moved to Australia and maybe just having a quick look through now And it does look like she has.
01:31:58
Speaker
She was she's back. but so as I say that I find her back in Iceland. It looks like she might have moved down to the South Coast. or at least be spending time there through February. So, yeah, and moving it's moving very well. um yeah So, yeah, which would be cool if she's here a bit more permanently and we're going to see her on the ah the race the race lineups coming coming up.
01:32:24
Speaker
But, yeah, ah very some some very impressive Strava files right now.
01:32:31
Speaker
Yeah. um Cool. And then the next competitor that we have is Jo Hepton. So um she was in the 17K at Hounslow last year and she won that in a pretty decent field as well. um And we also saw her in some, I'm assuming Queensland based shorter races, Boulder Bolt and BTU.
01:32:58
Speaker
um So she seems to love 20K distance and she's had a lot of wins. So she'd be coming in super confident, I would say.
01:33:09
Speaker
um so yeah, excited to see how she lines up against the rest of the field. Yeah, I think anyone that can take out the win at Hounslow, even the 17K, which like' it's not it's not easy underfoot. It's a fast course, but there's a lot of stairs and up and down and dodging and stuff. I think I'd definitely be having my eye on her for capacity at at this kind of course.
01:33:33
Speaker
Yeah, and the btu last year, was that was Golden Trail final, wasn't it? So it was also like ah like a good a good field. Yeah, so our defending champion.
01:33:45
Speaker
from a gone trail perspective she's back she's back to try and win again yeah she didn't win the overall though is that right because no yeah okay because she didn't go last year to the i think ah like the results that i've put in the in the spreadsheet like the border all coasts are high like there was nothing that i could find in 24 um okay and then it was just brisbane so like it's all brisbane based part apart from hounslow Yeah. Okay. Um, and yeah, so yeah, it would be, it'd be great to see her coming down to Victoria, jumping in the field, especially jumping in the field against the likes of lu Lucy, Andrea, and a couple of the other ladies we've got in the, got to come. So see where she stacks up in, in that depth of competition.
01:34:29
Speaker
Yeah. um Cool. And then next up we have the one and only Kate Avery. um And she is on a tear lately, coming back from having a baby. um She's already had some very strong results on the return. So she won the second day of Four Peaks. So she had a better climb.
01:34:57
Speaker
than Lucy Bartholomew on that day. So um Kate is an amazing climber. like she I don't know, Brodie, do you think she'll be able to keep up with you on this climb?
01:35:09
Speaker
Yeah, like we did it ah hard the once and and then the first time we went a bit easier, the second time we were a bit harder. Like Kate's very good, like she actually stronger than me at the moment, going over like a 10% runnable climb.
01:35:24
Speaker
So we did like Mount Riddle, Jess, you were actually there around New Year and she beat me to the top by like probably a minute. I don't know, like it was, yet she was she was quicker than me that day, like easy. She just left me behind.
01:35:35
Speaker
but behind um donna's i think donna's a bit different and maybe not her complete strength but she's still such a good climber um so the the the steeper grade i think i probably got a bit of time on her when i was trying to go my race pace um but yeah i still think she'll be very close yeah like she doesn't have strava so i actually don't know how quick she is on the climb segment that we were talking about before um yeah but when we've climbed uh she's i think she was maybe about
01:36:07
Speaker
what was it I don't actually remember I don't know but like I think complete I think about 10 minutes behind Lara's time when we did the faster day um yeah And we sort of cruised the down, not not cruised downhill, but we weren't racing. So I think, yeah, she's she's probably going to be very competitive. And I think out of those ladies, I wouldn't be surprised if she's the fastest to the top.
01:36:36
Speaker
I don't really know about Andrea. um but I think the descent might be the thing that she struggles to compete with, say, Lucy, who probably has a lot more experience running downhills. um Kate, having had 12 months off, and I think we all forget, and I definitely forgot Kate, because i Kate stopped doing trails when she was pregnant. Like, she kept running, so I sort of forgot that she didn't stop training, but she hadn't done downhills for about,
01:37:05
Speaker
nine, twelve months. Like there's been a long period of time where she hadn't done downhills. So yes I think she's just getting that back now, which is which is definitely because as as we were talking about before, the more downhills you do as Michael Kernaghan found out, the more downhills you do, the better you are at them. So um yeah, it'll be interesting to see. She's definitely been putting in the work to try and get herself into downhill shape. So yeah I guess we'll see what happens there.
01:37:31
Speaker
Yeah, I think there a lot yeah sorry yeah like the competitive nature of the race will like bring it out of her as well. like She is definitely like a racer. like I think being in that race, I reckon she'll send it down. She's probably my favorite for the win, to be honest.
01:37:49
Speaker
I think there's also a lot to be said for having that. She's done two up and down of Donna Brodie recently. Yeah. yeah yeah yeah yeah i think it's yeah dip i don't think she's been again we went together twice yeah yeah so like yes there'll be some pruning and some slight changing course conditions but just having that familiarity and twice as well like i think that there's a lot to be said and on a a trail like that i've just been like okay cool i remember that there was this like massive tree to the side there and i've got to be careful that one or just especially if you're not as confident as a downhiller for whatever reason
01:38:22
Speaker
And that's why I went, because I think like the more you've done it, the better. Like both of us said when we finished the second one, which we did faster than the first one, that we felt better than we finished the week before. yeah So like there's something there's definitely that training effect from mentally, but also physically from doing the exact demands of what you've got to do. Like if you're marathon training, that's why you you do marathon sessions, because you need to do the you need to be as specific as possible in that final lead up so i think that there is something to getting on course i'm hoping it's enough for me as well yeah i definitely think that kate's one of the ones in my mind and i'm like i yeah would not be surprised if she was first to the top and just is is her downhill going to be strong enough to hold off the charge from behind which that's the question
01:39:08
Speaker
Yeah. um Someone who is also no stranger to this course and the next sort of competitor on the female side, Simone Brick, one and only.
01:39:20
Speaker
um So she's lining up again. i think she's done this course so many times. um She knows it like the back of her hand.
01:39:31
Speaker
And, yeah, we all know that, like, she's probably not in her sort of peak fitness at the moment. She's had a bit of a rough track, but she's definitely, like, been string being able to string together um some good weeks. And I actually think going in...
01:39:50
Speaker
Probably a bit more fresh than what she usually would. Could be, yeah, good for her. um I think, yeah, and then she's ah another one that's super competitive as well. Like just the racing nature I think will bring out um something special. So definitely another one to watch for the podium.
01:40:09
Speaker
Yeah, I think Sim's not going to have the same strength she's had in the past of the climbs. Like she just, you can't hide the time she had off and she'd be the first one to agree with that. um And I agree, I agree, yes, I think some freshness to Sim would be awesome.
01:40:24
Speaker
But with the caveat of probably not off the back of again of what she's just just just had. But Sim on a downhill, like I would not want to be the person trying to keep her behind me, no matter what shape she's in. Like that's, you know, she's coming down fast. The others will be running scared for sure. Yeah, like there's there's no question.
01:40:43
Speaker
Even if she's not there, they'll be hearing ghosts. They'll be hearing things. so ring again like I think in another year, like this field, we're talking about the men's in the moment, but the women's field, for me, is definitely stronger and probably stronger than we've actually seen in the last two years as well.
01:41:01
Speaker
um If Sim was racing in a field from the past couple of years or before Golden Trail, um i think she would have been podium still. But I think with those four incredible ladies in front of her, like it's...
01:41:13
Speaker
And her not in, like, I know she would self-proclaim that she's nowhere near her best shape. I think yeah she she she's probably not going to be on the podium. But as you said, anything can happen in this race. And she would definitely be storming that downhill.
01:41:28
Speaker
I think the way to put as well for this race is that in the women's side, we've only ever had two women break 210 on this course. Sim broke it in 2018 running 208 and then Lara ran 204. We've only then had two more women go sub 215, which was Mia Noble last year and then Siobhan back in 2022 or 2023.
01:41:46
Speaker
think we're going to see 100% at least four women sub 210. one hundred percent at least four women sub to ten I wouldn't be surprised. 100%. That's a big call, James.
01:41:59
Speaker
i I think Kate will be able to climb fast enough to offset a descent. I think she'll be able to get up there close to what Lara could and then that'll be enough to go sub 210. I think that one of the others could maybe break two. Wow. Yeah.
01:42:15
Speaker
yeah Yeah. You've got to have some good calls. um Like if you look at, to be fair, if you look at the men's time and you look at women compared to men, like course records and other courses, that's not out of the question on what the men have run on this course, having this full field of assembled women it it wouldn't be out of the question for them to to get there i don't think like if if you apply the 10 like offset which probably a bit potentially a little bit bigger on this course you're looking at an hour 50 just i'm just going to round up so that's 12 minutes add 12 minutes to kind of hands time and that's 201 so and and michael no matter how much training he would on the downhills there's definitely better downhill runners there's probably not there's not very many better uphill runners but um
01:43:03
Speaker
I think that, yeah, that the two-hour mark would be very impressive if any of the ladies does break that, just like Michael's time would be incredibly impressive if anyone broke that on the men's side. But I think that this is the field this this is the field that could do it if it is. I think Lara's record will definitely go down as well.
01:43:21
Speaker
i would i would I would agree that I think the record will probably get down. um
Men's Race Preview
01:43:25
Speaker
i' be I'd love to see someone go sub too. And and if they are, they're going breathing down my neck. Brody, do you want to take us into the the men's? and we'll come back and talk about predictions at the end. Because you've you've been running with who I think is the favorite going into this, Nathan, on this course.
01:43:43
Speaker
I'm sorry. I realize talking to you and you're right you're in it. But um do you agree with that statement looking at this field? Look, like I think ah of the people on paper in front of me at the moment, yes, Nathan, I would say is is the favorite. um And I would, yeah, I definitely agree with that. Like interestingly, like i I didn't actually know what time Nathan ran last year, but my time from 2024 is actually 10 seconds faster than his time from last year. So yeah.
01:44:11
Speaker
That is an interesting fact. I'm not saying that that's going to happen this year. It gives me a little bit of confidence that I might be able to be closer to him than I thought. um But yeah, he's just he seems to be training phenomenally at the moment. He's always been such a good climber. And I think um his climbing also seems to be improving as well. So, yeah, I think ah me and the others will be hard pressed to beat Nathan. um The question is, yeah, I guess Tarawira was a couple of weeks ago. it doesn't seem to have had any issues recovering from that. That would be the only question mark, I guess. But I think looking how the weeks have gone since Tarawira, it doesn't appear to be a factor. So, yeah, I would agree that Nath is probably going in as as the favourite. He's run this race twice before. He couldn't run 2024, which was the year I ran it. and
01:45:01
Speaker
It was probably the the really deep field year because he was injured. um But he's run 157 and 153.40. So if he continues that trajectory, maybe he will go close to um Michael Kernan's town. And i think he like I think he could. I don't think I could, but I think Nathan could.
01:45:20
Speaker
Yeah, i like you can remember as well for last year, Nathan was coming in off a cooked calf and signed up like very last minute to then go and do the National Champs Mountain the next weekend. I think that
01:45:34
Speaker
wow I would probably still put Michael Cunahan as a better climber. So I don't think Nathan is going to beat him the top. Yeah, definitely. yeah on this sort of climb yeah nathan nathan is like these climbs ah it's is so funny you get into the little details here but on certain climbs nathan might to beat michael but i think um michael is so i think he's just like his build is just built for like he's very he's he's he's light he's fast he's springy he i think being a bit shorter i don't know just seems to be good for steep climbs i don't know he's just he looks like he's built for these steep climbs and i know in the year
01:46:10
Speaker
that I did it in 2024, he just blew the field away. And that had people like Leo, Ben Dufus, Blake Turner, Billy, like it and Max, who came second. like But he just he just skyrocketed away from us. um So I think on a really steep climb, Michael is maybe a bit better than Nath. But I think on other climbs, they're a bit more considerable. But I think maybe on the overall picture of the race, Nathan might have what it takes to to make it up and and get close to Michael's time.
01:46:39
Speaker
Yeah, no, I agree. I think looking to the interview with with Nathan last week and going through his driver in quite detail then like he's been training really, really well. I compare hearing him talk about this time last year compared to this time this year and it's we're talking about a different runner um from from the preparation and the lead in.
01:47:01
Speaker
153 when he's coming in underdone. Yeah. one and I think we probably saw that with his season last year. like He really came into his straps at World Mountain Running Champs. Before that, his I don't think he'd disagree, but I would say his's his season wasn't as good as he probably would have hoped or it wasn't as good as it probably didn't get to his potential.
01:47:22
Speaker
Whereas World Mountain Running Champs, he probably got closer to his potential. And that probably fits with like where he was at the start of the year. um But ah like you said, from there into this year, he seemed to sort of kept that trajectory.
01:47:35
Speaker
Yeah. And my only question on Nath, and this is not if he's going to win or not, is more about the time is like how much priority is he putting onto this race? Like is he going to bother? like If this hasn't been so much for focus, like how specific is his training been for this exact event? well but Again, I'm not talking about the win. I'm just saying like can he break 149 if he's not specific training for this style of event? um I don't know.
01:47:59
Speaker
He's definitely done a fair bit of climbing and like we did, I did the course with him once. So he's done it at el least once. I've seen him go up and down Mount St Leonard. I've seen him go up and like he's been in the dandies climbing. So like he's probably, he has still done a fair bit of climbing and he's done a few sustained downhills as well. So yeah, I don't think he's not focusing on it. Like I think he's got several goals for the year, yeah,
01:48:21
Speaker
Yeah, he may it's not his A goal per se, but I think it's definitely he's definitely been sort of targeting his training towards it after Tarawera or in where he could in his Tarawera build as well.
01:48:33
Speaker
Yeah, you can do a lot of two weeks. Yeah, yeah. And he was doing bits before that because I remember talking to him and he was saying like he was conscious that he didn't have a massive time between Tarawera and Warby and he still wanted to be competitive, but he had to balance that with being in best he could for Tarawera because i think Tarawera was probably more important for him. um But yeah, he didn't have the greatest race there. So I think maybe he's he's probably got the fire now to like this is the one that he's like, okay, well, I got it. um I'm going to try and pull it together for that.
01:49:03
Speaker
Yeah. Cool. So we've obviously gone through the fact that you're in the field as well. Yeah. Other men that you've got an eye on? Yeah. So you've got um Toby Lang's racing. um Toby's run this the last two years.
01:49:18
Speaker
He ran 10 minutes quicker last year than he did in 2024. And he's he's young. So that sort of fits with his trajectory in general. he ran 154.50 last year. So minute
01:49:31
Speaker
a minute 20, minute and a half behind the times that that me and Nath had done. So he's definitely in the mix there given he's given his trajectory of like being a younger guy and he's probably going to be getting better and better.
01:49:43
Speaker
um I'm not sure how much of a focus this is for him. I haven't spoken to him actually, but Toby also does orienteering. I know he's been doing a bit of orienteering. I don't know what his goals are per se. um I think he's good enough to be in the mix. It doesn't look like he's been 100% focused on this being his only goal and maybe he would have needed to do that to take down Nath. But yeah, who knows? it's It's hard to predict, I think, the younger guys.
01:50:11
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. and When I was going through his training, like he's fast, he's doing stuff over trails. Like I'm thinking his efficiency is going to be great. The only thing that stood out to me was just it lacked any of the like the fast and or steep downs that I think is like, it's that layer of specificity that Donna needs that you were just talking about Nath doing. So that's the, ah but aside from that, like he's in very good shape. So even if he's not put a big focus on here,
01:50:40
Speaker
he's He looks like he's in a bit better shape than he was from a general running perspective than he was at time last year, which again, you would expect at his age. But um yeah, again, no clue how much this is a focus for him.
01:50:54
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And then, yeah, the other name that sort of jumped out or that someone sent me, I think Ian Best maybe let me know, it was Hector McGillivray.
01:51:08
Speaker
um Hector, sorry, Hector, if I put you your last name in there. Hector looks like he's sort of like he did a race back in 2021, but he did a lot of sort of trail running last year in particular. He did the trail running series here in Victoria, which is sort of like,
01:51:22
Speaker
quite a nice sort of like not the beginner trail series or sort of it is a beginner trail series but you can still do them competitively and and there's definitely some fast people running so he had a crack at that and then he ran a roller coaster he came fourth there uh behind that would have been toby nath sorry nath toby and thomas banks and he wasn't that far behind maybe four or five minutes um and then second at Buller Sky Run twenty two k
01:51:55
Speaker
Yeah, to which is the hands-weight Ian. And in that one, he was probably a bit further behind Ian there, 10 minutes behind compared to maybe the roller coaster was a bit better result. But, yeah, decent decent results. i i I think he'd be an ounce if it was just us four, which I think maybe we'll mention in a moment there might be some late entries. um If it was just us four, I'd say he's an outside chance at cracking the top three, but he's still a chance. I'm still worried about him. Yeah.
01:52:25
Speaker
yeah so yeah and and then there's a couple of guys that might run um i've been waiting for michael kernahan to enter um and i've been following his strava he seems to unfortunately been a bit unwell recently since he got back from new zealand um The last couple of days he's been sort of saying that he was still considering it, um but the chances were low, but they've been slowly increasing day by day. So I don't know. I think he might be an outside chance.
01:52:53
Speaker
Michael might have some inside goss there. Yeah, yesterday he actually seemed pretty upbeat. But yeah, like he's still been a bit under the weather. And I think like even if he wasn't sick, he still hasn't been like at his best. But yeah, obviously still an outside chance.
01:53:08
Speaker
He can just come get the pack. Yeah, just okay well, the thing is, if he runs, I think it would be hard for, based on how he's been feeling, I think it would be hard for us to expect him to run his 149. I think he'll be more in the low 150s and therefore he's just right in the mix. um So if he did run, I'm not expecting him to be out the front by himself but he could definitely still podium if he does run i think it just be how much has the couple of weeks of sickness sort of whacked him around um that's the question i guess if he runs yeah i if i put myself in the michael shoes coming off being a bit sick like
01:53:48
Speaker
you know that you're not going to be a good enough downhiller to stay on Nathan's tails or on Toby's tails up the hill. Like he's going to have to be in front if he's thinking about trying to win the thing, um which if I'd spent the week sick or a few days sick and then the idea of having to be off the front of the climb, it sounds quite painful.
01:54:07
Speaker
Yeah. like That being said, he can still win a grand and a half for coming third. So it's not like it's the, it's not like the craziest thing to stand on the start line. Like he doesn't have to win to still have success. no No. Depends what his measure of success is, I guess. Exactly. And that's for him that's for him to decide. The other one who I've heard whispers of and I've been having conversations with is maybe Ian Vest. He's been dabbling with the idea for about two weeks and he still hasn't committed one way or the other. So we may we may see him on the start line. I don't know.
01:54:40
Speaker
So, yeah. I've offered him a bet at my house, so what more could I do? I've i've been as generous as I could. what What more could he want? it's i shouldn't be i shouldn't be I shouldn't be encouraging anyone to do this, right? Yeah, exactly.
01:54:56
Speaker
When's the latest you can sign up? Yeah, see, i I've encouraged Michael to sign up, I think. I don't know when entries close. um Yeah, there's like ah there's late, like general entries have closed, but I think like late entries are still open. I don't, I don't actually know when they close. it probably Interesting. March, it just says March 9th on the website, which is the weekend.
01:55:19
Speaker
So yeah, you can, you can enter as late as you can. And then going back to Jess, your question earlier before, which we got on Instagram about polls, the website says nothing about them. So yes, you could definitely use them.
01:55:31
Speaker
I think that if you're at the front of the field, you you probably would not be using them, but especially because they go off in a couple of waves. If you're in the earlier wave, it gets a tough climb. And if they have cleared it, it's not too overgrown and grabbing your poles. they could definitely say that there would but be benefit on the fact that this is a 1300 meter climb of having them.
01:55:49
Speaker
Brodie, what what are your thoughts? Yeah, there's this small sections where I think you could use them. um And therefore, I probably wouldn't use them if I was being competitive because the effort of putting them away and getting them out, putting them away, getting them out or trying to run with them might be a bit too much.
01:56:07
Speaker
but like you said if it's someone who's doing this race to finish it um or just to do as quick as they can and they're not so worried about losing a couple of seconds putting them away um the benefit of using them on the stretch that does help might might might work so once you cross the aqueduct there's probably ah I don't know how far it is, maybe 800 meters to a kilometer that's pretty narrow, rocky, turny, trees, all that sort of stuff, probably hard to use them.
01:56:36
Speaker
Then there's probably 800 meters to a kilometer where you could use them. And then it narrows again before the road. um So maybe that middle section of that steep climb, you could use them. And I think they could be quite effective. It's really steep and it's hard to get purchased with your feet.
01:56:51
Speaker
So I think it actually would be quite beneficial. And then once you cross the road, You've got a bit of a fire road climb that you could probably use them for, but then after that it's probably not steep enough to use use them for. So yeah there's definitely sections you could, but, um yeah, I probably wouldn't use them because they would be too much effort for me to worry about for the gain. But, like, definitely you're going on a bit slower or you're worried about that 800 metres of climbing in 3K and that sounds intimidating, then it's not a bad shot to take them with you.
01:57:25
Speaker
Cool. Let's do predictions. I just want to go through first place women and men. Jess, who is your pick on the women's and the men's field? Um, definitely Kate Avery for the women.
01:57:42
Speaker
Um, I just think that mom's strength is savage and we all know she's, I think she's going be the first to the top and I think she's yeah just such a competitor that she'll send it.
01:57:54
Speaker
Um, And then on the men's side, I'd probably say Michael Cairn as if he does enter, but if not, um yeah, probably Nathan.
01:58:06
Speaker
Brody? Brody? I see that Michael's disappeared, so he may have gone off to enter. you know I'll keep checking. this it ah He's still with us, but he's he's he's disappeared from the camera. um i'm or it's It's really hard because I don't know what what sort of shape on Andrea's in. Yeah.
01:58:30
Speaker
Kate would probably kill me if I don't pick her. So um ah I but I actually think she, she I think she can beat Lucy and Joe. I don't know about Andrea, but I'll lock Kate in still.
01:58:43
Speaker
um And then in the men, I think Nathan i think nasson will have it in the bag, but I hope I beat him. hey Michael, after hearing all that, what are your picks?
01:58:55
Speaker
Um, well, to be honest, I, on the women's side, i know who Lucy Bartholomew is. I would have picked her as a favorite. I don't know how strong she is on the shortest stuff though, because I know she does a very long stuff.
01:59:08
Speaker
So I'm going to pick her. Good pick. And then ah Kate, probably second and maybe Simone third. That's my pick. And on the went men's side, if Cairnaghan does it, I've got a pick him.
01:59:23
Speaker
But i and the Nathan Pearce, i would ah you'd think, yeah, he's got to win as well. Yeah. yeah Nice. And I think I'm going to go with Andrea for the win. um I have the advantage of being able to see her Strava and like just some specific stuff that will make her good on the climbing, like some ways. There's an insider trading here, James. Are we including this as like one of the results for the year?
01:59:45
Speaker
I'm in control so I can do what I want. um ah And also like she's from Iceland. So my instinct is to say that she must have get, she must be used to technical terrain underfoot. And so the downhill probably is going to be no issue for her. Plus you can't come.
02:00:03
Speaker
What was it? Top 15 at worlds. If you're a bad downhiller, it's just, you just would get left behind. yeah. Yeah, I think Andrea for the- please We'll pull that sound grab actually, Jess, and we'll put that with a picture of the Donadou course and what Iceland looks like and see if Jamie's directing how close those two are. I just said underfoot, it could have some technicality. i've known and Iceland, ice stand well known for having many trees.
02:00:28
Speaker
All I know about Iceland is the secret life of Walter Mitty. And if you've watched that film, that's like, that's, that's it for me. um And then on the men's, I like yeah assuming, I think even if Conor does come in, I still think that Nath will take the win on this one. I think he'll like, I think if Michael is in it, he still, he might be able Nath at the top, but i just don't think there's any chance that he'll hold him back on the, on the descent unless there's an ankle roll again, but we'll see you about that one.
02:00:53
Speaker
All right. um We'll quickly do the question because it's a quick answer one. um What are you eating for breakfast on Sunday? So as in what are you eating for breakfast pre-race?
02:01:06
Speaker
Michael, chocolate? no No, not for breakfast. That's a snack. um What I usually have every day of the week, and so nothing different, which is usually cup of tea with some biscuits and honey on toast and maybe some cereal.
02:01:22
Speaker
I like it. Jess? ah This is a bit triggering for me because I usually struggle to get any food down. But um at the moment, I've been doing gluten-free Special K cereal. It seems to be working well with me.
02:01:38
Speaker
Beautiful. Brody? What I'm specifically going to be having on Sunday is Gnomeo and Bicarb. Gnomeo and Bicarb.
02:01:50
Speaker
Yeah, I'm doing the dub. Doing the dub. have you trained with ah Have you trained with both at the same time? Not at the same time. so ah so i've trained with I've trained with both individually and they were fine. So fingers crossed.
02:02:04
Speaker
Just if you're behind Brady on the climb, just, just give him a bit of gap just in case. um And I'm what I have but every day before I run, which at the moment is cereal. I've gone through the whole
Recent and Upcoming Race Highlights
02:02:16
Speaker
gambit of different stuff, but I found cereals been the best for me. So I have crunchy nut.
02:02:20
Speaker
no cool all right going through just going to pump through the results really quickly from the week there's quite a few in there i'm just going to mostly go through the winners uh at mount bogan conquest on we had hayden barnett to have the win in 209 13 followed by ian best um and in the women's we had mimi bennett take the win in 250 and then tanya wiley in 255
02:02:45
Speaker
In other races, we had, I'm going to come back to the ball ball because Joe has sent me some pictures of handwritten results. So i'm going to have to go to that one in sec. um Southeast Queensland series ah round seven at Ewan Maddox. We had Andrew Day take out the win in the men's and Tatum Green took out the win in the females for the long. whale rock trail run um a name i haven't seen results for a while but we were saying his name a lot around this time last year sabinek hannis who i think he came third at the mountain champs from memory um only seems to really race around sydney but super super quick and then in the women's annie strut took out the or take out the wi women's perth trail summer series it's such a good name the chilly chilly run run
02:03:29
Speaker
Thomas Gauthier took out the win there in the in the long course and Kirsten Buist for the females. And then the Blair Marathon, a few different distances here. So we had the 50K, it was David Williams for the women, Sarah Peter for the men, sorry, David for the men, Sarah for the women. Godfrey Slattery is a name from Cozzy, 100K, took out the win in the men's quite convincingly. And then Morgan Ortrecht in the women's. And then Ziggy King in the 21K for the men's. Vanessa Tomatis for the women's. And then in gone nuts, a lot of names here we're we're pretty familiar with now. The 101K, Joseph Nunn took the win in the men's. Amy Hassan for the females. 75K, Piotr Babis for the men. And then Amy Courto for the women.
02:04:11
Speaker
George Knight, the 50K. um And then Mel Clark for the female side. And then Thomas Merton for the 21K men's. And Lauren Workman for the women's. And then really quickly, let me just get Joe's results up.
02:04:29
Speaker
15k Ian Best double backed. So this is the next day after doing Bogan Questathon to quite convincingly take the win at Borbo and then in the females
02:04:42
Speaker
I'm really sorry. I actually can't read his writing. So I can't tell you who was the female side for that one. And in the men's 21K, Bob Ozzie took out the win and Naomi Bangle for the women's. 2035K, Jordan Furman for the men's and Courtney Ellis for women. She beat out Jay Bucklows. That have been a good race for the then in the 42K, Matt Crean came back to win this one for the second time and Kate Kruger for the females. Very, very busy weekend of racing across the country, which is really cool to see. Yeah, a lot of results.
02:05:18
Speaker
Yeah. A lot of big names as well in various places. Yeah, i think a lot of big names getting ready for some big stuff end of March, which is ah yeah' exciting. I have a feeling for Piotr. I saw someone on the Instagram that maybe he's won every distance now at Gone Nuts, which. Yeah, I think he finished the full set this year. Yeah, which is pretty cool.
02:05:37
Speaker
And coming up, we've already spoken about it, Warburton Trail Running Festival. That's the big one for this weekend. And then we've got the Charles Darwin Trail Running over Northern Territory, the Coomba Trail Running Queensland, and Pinnacles Classic also.
02:05:49
Speaker
In Queensland, guys, that was a big one. Michael, it's been awesome to get to know you. Fun to have you on your your takes. Now your job is to peer pressure Conahan to get him to enter the race.
02:06:01
Speaker
ah
Episode Conclusion
02:06:02
Speaker
first him tomorrow I'll let him know. i appreciate it. Jess Brady, it's a pleasure as always. Thanks, guys. Good to see you guys. yeah and we'll talk Before we go is is next episode episode 100?
02:06:15
Speaker
It is. ah Are we doing anything special? good question that's a good question Michael but we will just have to to tune in for next week to find out well well very old ninety nine episodes so leg smuggle we're very organized as always and we have a plan we we we've got everything dialed yeah it's all set we just it's all secret um to us as well if I win if I win on the weekend I'll buy everyone a beer hey we'll have a celebration sweet i like it you can just say if you got five grand just send a slab to all our houses yeah true i could i could probably afford that if i win five grand yeah done so nathan and kerners don't ruin it all right yeah exactly sweet all right thanks everyone for listening we will catch you on the next one see you everyone