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Meg Sinclair's KMR Recap, Junior Pathways to Trail Running, Hut2Hut Announces Bob's Round | Episode 105
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In this episode Jess and Sim are joined by Tasmanian Meg Sinclair to hear a recap of her course record run at KMR 25km. Get to know Meg, including her upbringing in SA and stint in the VFLW before moving to Tasmania and finding trail running. With few races under her belt Meg has already proved her strength with wins at KMR and Triple Tops as well as a 5th place last year in UTA100 her 100km debut. Meg hopes to improve on that this year so get behind her at UTA!
The team then discusses a question about junior pathways into trail running, including outlining TRAQs announcement of a junior category in their upcoming race. Other news includes Hut2Hut announcing that there will be no 100km in 2027 and there will instead be a new brutal 48km with 3000m+/- Bob's Round.
As usual hear some results an catch up with Sim and Jess to finish!
Results:
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Connect with us on Instagram @peakpursuits.pod to share your thoughts, questions, and your own trail stories. Until next time, keep hitting the trails and chasing those peak pursuits!
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Transcript
00:00:09
Speaker
Hello and welcome to episode 105 the Peak Pursuits podcast. My name is Simone Brick and I am joined this week by the lovely Jess Jason. are we doing Jess?
00:00:20
Speaker
Hey guys, going well. um Yeah, it's starting to get a bit cold. I've got a jumper on. It's, yep, Winter is almost here, which I'm a bit scared about, but we'll make it through.
00:00:32
Speaker
I'm like weirdly looking forward to it. um I don't know, it's just cold runs in the rain. I'm just like something fresh about them. um So yeah, it will it'll be it'll be good. We got this. And joining us is someone that, to be fair, I don't know if we should be complaining about winter, Jess, because joining us, we have the one and only Meg Sinclair from down in Tassie. How we doing, Meg?
00:01:01
Speaker
Yeah, good, thanks. thanks for having me, guys. You are more than welcome. Now, you would know all about running in cold weather. yeah Oh, yeah yeah. I just went up on Dryas Bluff yesterday and there was snow up there. So, yeah definitely know about cold weather.
00:01:14
Speaker
ah Yep, yep, the year round. Awesome. Well, coming up for everyone today on this episode, we're going to get to know Meg a bit and hear about her RIPA run recently at Kunanyi Mountain Run 25K, followed by a few news topics and some cool things happening at Hut2Hut and in the junior ranks at trial queen Trail Running Association Queensland.
00:01:39
Speaker
Some pretty epic results and Meg, you've got some cool questions. So, to get us started and this is a bit for me and Jess too because Meg you've been trail running for a little bit but at the same time not that many races as far as I can tell so tell us a bit about you yourself and how you got into trail running initially Yeah, I guess my trail running sort of started when I moved to Tassie in 2017. So I've been here for, live in Launceston, so I've been here for nine years now.
00:02:12
Speaker
And I actually, i didn't, I just love Tasmania for its landscapes and and I started to get into hiking. um and i was at that time i was into playing football so football take took up a lot of my time but um i started to get a bit frightened of injuring myself and i started to turn other other things i enjoyed um hiking and um some friends were starting to trail run so i started joining them on runs and followed some of Hanny Elston's, oh I think it's Wild Oath trails and just explored the state um on the trails and really enjoyed that. And then um this triple triple top sort of, actually, I don't know how it came about, but I think a few of my colleagues who are physios were in um going in triple top contests and I thought I'd give it a go. And it turned out, so that was in 2019.
00:03:10
Speaker
I did okay. If you know Triple Top, there's a lot of a lot of air elevation. It's 19Ks and it's I think it's 1,400 meters elevation. It's very technical. um and Considering the conditions, i I did quite well. but um i sort of i I just continued just leisure runs, really, just on on weekends. um I didn't really consider...
00:03:35
Speaker
you know, going into competitions for a while. I was enjoying mountain bike riding at the time as well. So just but just enjoying my time in Tassie really. And um and then this Kanani mountain run came up in, I think it was 2022. It was the first race that the guys had held there. And I entered the 68 kilometers um And yeah, was that was pretty intimidating for me. just it's a lot It's a long way. um And I ended up coming second there. So i was that was really exciting. But again, I think you know I sort of put it down to probably not the most competitive you know in Tassie. It's a small state and and maybe there wasn't many people you know running. so again,
00:04:29
Speaker
um Yeah, sort of had a couple years. um i didn't really enroll in many races, I guess. um And then, um yeah, KMR 2023, did the 25 kilometre then. Again, just a bit of fun. I tend to not really, ah at that time, I wasn't training. I was just enjoying just running and Again, yeah, leisure runs. um And then it wasn't until last year that really but tried, but you know, put in some work and put in some ah big sort of training block of six months for the UTA 100.
00:05:33
Speaker
That's exciting times because if this is only your second year kind of even focused training blocks, i'd I'd love to see what a good few years of that does for you. But before I get into that, before before Tassie, where did you live? and When you say you played football, did you VFLW?
00:05:53
Speaker
vfl w ah Yeah, yes. um So, yeah, I did play VFL just a couple of weekends, just enough to get the merchandise.
00:06:02
Speaker
But, you know, you know i've got so much slow twitch, I think, in in in me that i I'm not built for run um sprinting or jumping. So they worked that out pretty quickly. And um so I it ended my football career there pretty much. But, um yeah. Yeah, I did get a little bit of a show there for a minute. um But yeah, I originally of grew up in Narraghort in South Australia. It's a s small small town in the southeast of SA.
00:06:34
Speaker
Jess Trengrove actually grew up there too. So that's one thing I like to talk about. Yeah. so um Yeah. And i grew up on a farm there with my brother and mum and dad. um And then...
00:06:53
Speaker
motorbike riding and just just farm life, um a lot around the community in the football netball club. I played lots of sports, I guess, loved sports growing up, um basketball, netball, tennis, all the things. um and then moved to Adelaide for boarding school um and then had uni and a physio and also in Adelaide. um So spent, I think, seven years there, not doing a lot of running more, just netball and just sports, social sports. And then, um yeah, moved to Tassie in 2017.
00:07:32
Speaker
And I've just been been here ever since pretty well. nice. I love that. You're living up to my theory that ah very multi-sport children actually make quite natural trail runners later um because of like the, you you do need that agility and sideways movement and different levels of strength for different things. And it just, it seems to come a bit more natural um to someone that's grown up doing those sorts of things, I suppose. um
00:08:02
Speaker
But I love that. That's then when you, did start getting into running. Like the one thing that intrigues me about this sometimes is that you say like you did triple tops, you didn't do what a lot of people do and catch the running bug and then enter every race left, right and center because you do have quite a lot cool races in Tassie. So what has it looked like since, cause that it looks like even from that first Kunanyi, like you have no races or results even from like a 2022 Kunanyi to the 2023.
00:08:34
Speaker
um Like did you do any events in there or is it just that you've spent many years running but for the most part other than that one event for the year just enjoying it without any structure whatsoever?
00:08:47
Speaker
Yeah, i think I think probably during that period I was perhaps into mountain bike riding at that time. I think that's what what happened then. um But also, yeah, I think because I'm quite i'm kind of fearful races. races. get quite nervous leading up to it and i do really enjoy it.
00:09:13
Speaker
something i enjoy it, but the thought of signing up to several races a year really scares me. i kind't like one what one or One a year I can deal with.
00:09:25
Speaker
um But I think also that time commitment just just hovering several, it's it's just so time consuming. And being able to have that break is also, i really enjoy that and being able to do something different and not just have trail running as the the sole part of my life, but it seems to be going that way at the moment. But um that period of my time ah my life, I guess, a couple years ago, like, yeah, I wasn't, I was just enjoying it really. And I'd also, you know, i hadn't I hadn't been out of Tasmania to to race, so i I sort of thought I was just um maybe, yeah, I don't know.
00:10:08
Speaker
Yeah, i just wasn't, I wasn't, Wasn't tempted to to see what I was able to do, I guess. Push myself that much, yeah. Keeping my little comfort box, I think that's what possibly what I was doing, yeah.
00:10:21
Speaker
No, that makes sense. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that at any point, even in future. like just I hope you don't ever lose that comfort box of just doing it for the love of it and because it feels good and it's enjoyable as opposed to I have to do more now. um But that being said, UTA 100 was your first then foray outside Tassie to race.
00:10:46
Speaker
Did you expect to come top five? ah No, To be honest, I was hoping for top 10 because I really did want to see CCC entrance.
00:11:00
Speaker
um But I did, like, I was looking, there must be an entrance list, and I was looking people up and I thought there's, there's, There's a low chance, but um I'll still try.
00:11:12
Speaker
um and yeah, i was I was quite frightened, really, at at the halfway point. I was asked you know asking people that were running with me, you know, what sort of time...
00:11:24
Speaker
did you get last year or you know have you run this before? and And they would say, oh, you know, 11 hours, 30 minutes. And ah i was just like, oh my gosh, what have I done? I'm i'm not going to see the end of this race.
00:11:37
Speaker
um And yeah, it it was fine. it turned out fine. But i was I was pretty worried the whole time that I was just going to blow up at any point. um Yeah, so yeah, it was a shock to get the get in top five. Yeah.
00:11:55
Speaker
Did that give you some confidence like after the race? ah Yeah, deaf definitely. Yeah, I think for this KMR25 too, just knowing like I just, yeah, thinking I can possibly get first too. For me, I've often gotten seconds and, you know, it depends who shows up to the start line. Like if Maggie Lennox is is there, you know, I've definitely, um it's going to test me a lot. But, um you know,
00:12:26
Speaker
Yeah, just believing that I could possibly go with them and maybe I can i can come first is is in ah in a bigger race, you know, um is as in in Tassie. um Yeah, it's possible. It did give me that confidence for sure.
00:12:45
Speaker
So what made you choose the 25k? Like, I guess coming off the 100, you probably, I assume you would have felt like you've got a bit of talent in the longer distances. But do you still enjoy the shorter races as well?
00:13:00
Speaker
Yeah, think I think you're right. I probably am better off in the the longer races, but ah I've just got the UTA 100 coming up in, it must be five weeks so in May. So I thought that'd be a nice training race. I probably should have gone for something a little bit longer, like the Alpine Marathon.
00:13:23
Speaker
training wise, but um I don't know, i was just the 25, I've done it before and I was curious too, like, could i improve my time and it's nice to see those sort of that progress as well. So that was kind of why I went for the KMR 25.
00:13:42
Speaker
Yeah, your run this year and like improving your time by 20 minutes shows that you've got a bit of range, you can do it all. Yeah, no, it's good. Exciting. Yeah, so for some context on that one, this was this year in the 25K.
00:13:59
Speaker
This was actually, it's and it's an interesting one because this year the 25K wasn't um sort of the premier event in a way. Like in previous years, if last one two it's been golden trail um two years i think um and then this year they also had the national champs in the 14 um but then the 25 ended up being quite competitive on the women's side which is really cool to see but not only that you then broke the course record in a year where it wasn't
00:14:30
Speaker
the Golden Trail as it had been previously and there wasn't as many people traveling for it, which is really cool to see. um So you ran 2.36.27 to set the new course record.
00:14:42
Speaker
Were you aiming that or was it one of those things that just came out naturally by you just racing or were you aiming for a certain time going in? No, no, I wasn't aiming for a time.
00:14:54
Speaker
um I just wanted to be my time. And I was just hoping just to just feel that kind of pain all the way through and not take the accelerator off.
00:15:07
Speaker
Just treat it as like a solid just at your threshold the whole time sort of race. Yeah, I think I was just doing it for me and um I mean 20 minutes, you know, that the course record was a long way off of my last race so it wasn't in my mind, I guess. I was hoping maybe the the first female would be awesome but yeah, it wasn't wasn't consideration there.
00:15:37
Speaker
did Did you know you were running in second overall and there was only one guy ahead of you? Yeah, I did because but yeah because of the halfway when you get up the top of the mountain, there's an up and back so you can see who's in front of you. um And I was following, must have been the second male, um Ben, I was following him all the way down the hill and um I spoke to him after, unfortunately had a fall, so he was, I could see him, yeah, he was about say 40, 50 metres ahead of me and then suddenly he was right right there and um yeah, he had he had a fall unfortunately, so um I think he was probably a bit tentative after that, so yeah, that might have contributed, but ah yeah, I could knew where I was placed.
00:16:26
Speaker
Love that. Love that because, yeah, you were only, what, three minutes, less than three minutes off the overall win, um which always fun to see. Yeah.
00:16:37
Speaker
So where does that then, or actually, just how did the race feel? um Like, as you said, you wanted to push from start to finish, but was it one of those ones where that actually went okay or was it,
00:16:51
Speaker
Did you feel like one part you actually was better than or worse or things went wrong? I think things are pretty good. um i sort of made a plan to not go too fast at the start because I had to look back through my stats for the last time I did it and it looked like I went quite quick. So I decided I'll go a little bit slower at start, still make sure I don't get in a bottleneck and when we get to single track. um but And then i just wanted to not...
00:17:22
Speaker
not get over the threshold as I was going up. I just really want didn't want to blow up. And um I did also see in my last race that my downhill wasn't great. It looked like I just, I went fast at the start and then just slowed down massively by the end of it. I think I was doing like six-minute kilometres in a place where I should be doing much faster.
00:17:45
Speaker
um so yeah, so i I pretty much stuck to that plan on the way up. um i had I made a bit of an error. I didn't i didn't bring electrolytes, so I borrowed a friend's and I had...
00:17:58
Speaker
He said, oh, that they're really salty. And I said, I'll snap it in half. It's fine. um Anyway, it tasted like I was drinking ocean water. So on the way off, I thought, I've got to get rid of this. So at the halfway at the top of the mountain, I ah had to tip out my water and refill it, um which isn't ideal because I had enough water for the whole race. But yeah.
00:18:21
Speaker
Yeah, so I turned around and um I think ah ah much I was in third at that period of time and um yeah, I just felt i felt good. i just tried to, I'd listen to Hanni's techniques for downhill running and I was just trying to be light and light my feet and just let gravity do the work and it I was trying to pay heaps of attention too because um I had in literally in the two weeks before in the two weeks before the race, I've fallen over three times trail running. Um, and, and I was wearing the same shoes. They were a little bit more lofty than I usually would. So I was really, i was worried about it, but I was, they're so comfortable. i just had, I didn't want to wear anything else.
00:19:06
Speaker
Um, so I was trying to pay a lot of attention on the downhill because they're so, it's so technical, um, at times. Um, and then, um, Yeah, I think um every it just felt good. I just felt ah felt good pretty much the whole way. And it was such a relief to pop out at that car park and know that the the end's just only a kilometre away. And yeah, so really pretty well like a dream race, really. like there's not too much went wrong at all. And it was really nice to have someone also to follow in front of me on the, on the downhill. Sometimes you can sort of zone out and, and maybe not push as hard as you you could, you know, there's a lot of things going on. Like it's, it's cognitive and it's, um,
00:19:53
Speaker
you're also, you know, you're breathing and and just your strength as well. You've to, yeah, it's just, there's a lot going on. So have that marker in front of me was super helpful um having been there. um So, yeah, yeah, was a dream race really.
00:20:10
Speaker
Love that, relish it. I'm not sure how often they come around. Yeah, that's it, hey. Relish it for sure and it was it was a ripper run. um Where does it now,
00:20:22
Speaker
put you like mentally and physically as you're leading into UTA 100 being only a month away? Yeah it's like frightened I guess yeah I don't know. What are you frightened of though? Yeah I think it's just like the better you do like if I you know I know I can do that and just reaching into that going to that painful place again and It's just so, it' it's such a, it's so hard and such a long time just being in that sort of pain cave.
00:20:55
Speaker
um So I guess like, yeah, I think it's probably a part of me not doing and enough races to feel comfortable with it. It's just, um for me, it's, yeah, there's so there's a bit of a barrier there for me. um But yeah, it's, um i I'm excited. i do want to i do want to definitely get a PB this year and um my training is clearly working so I'm excited but yeah, it's just the race day. just always just it's just so so painful.
00:21:31
Speaker
And what do you think, like, what do you think is to blame for like your 20 minute PB in the twenty five k course at Kunani? Like, do you think it's just more experience or like, did you change your training at all?
00:21:46
Speaker
No, I think it's generally like just the accumulation of lots of trail running over time. i think it helps massively, but um I've changed my approach. Like last year start is the first year that I actually structured my training. So I had a sort of six month plan.
00:22:05
Speaker
I just used Hany's 100k UTA training planner and went by that. So I'm mostly focused on load um and just getting heaps of mileage up. And and that works well. But this year I've changed it up a little bit, added in a bit more like specific training.
00:22:24
Speaker
Originally, i was thinking of, i I read the uphill athlete and sort of taking some of those concepts and adding it to my training. um you know i' I've come up with all these plans often and ah and I often veer away from them at times. um But generally, yeah, i've I've stuck to more interval training. So I'll do interval trainings on a Tuesday as well as a Thursday, doing some heel reps, and then just stick to my general long runs. Everything's pretty much the same, but um I'm doing more intervals, remember, as well as...
00:23:04
Speaker
one gym session a week, it doesn't seem like much, but it's meant I can actually do the intervals to my maximum capacity. Last year, often I wouldn't do the intervals because i was you know I'd have a twingy hamstring or you know something just would be affecting my ability to run fast. um And this year, it hasn't been that way. So i don't know.
00:23:57
Speaker
think... think um I think in terms of improving, like last year, again, I had a really good race. but I think it's also a part of the fright is that these, often I have good, I've had dream races every time and i'm I'm kind of frightened of not having that dream race. Things just go to plan and I'm just happy and It's just good energy out there.
00:24:27
Speaker
um you know i hear some nightmare stories of friends that just had just the the hardest days out there. I think my time is coming.
00:24:37
Speaker
but yeah For this year, i'm I'm hoping to go a bit quicker on the in the flats, I think. um I'm keen to analyze um some of you know the segments. and work out which which areas I need to fasten up or slow down in um and just yeah yeah look at some of the competitors around me and see what what their approach is because yeah when it's your first time you don't really know, you just go. um and um
00:25:08
Speaker
yeah i really don't know right now how to improve but in the coming weeks I'll be looking at that and just seeing if I can come up with a better plan. I love it. Well, if there's one thing you can definitely take from last year, it's that well you ran that 11.56 and didn't blow up while you were questioning whether you were going to blow up the whole time. So you've got a little bit more knowledge going in there. um But also, just back to what you were you were saying about training, A, Uphill Athlete.
00:25:37
Speaker
Love that book. Love that book. So much I've taken from there too. And I'd also argue that when you're living in Tassie, you're probably running a hell of a lot of elevation gain. So one gym session a week is probably plenty because we actually get a lot of our strength from the hills anyway. Yes.
00:25:55
Speaker
So i wouldn't be beating yourself up about that at all. um But for moving forward, as and as you said, like... like the fear is worse than the bad day i promise yeah um it's almost like when when you were saying that i'm like you're actually in a really awesome position because honestly the worst case scenario is you have a bad day and you finally stop fearing having your first bad day yeah so true it's kind of like in in so many ways that's also a step forward in your running yeah it's kind of like
00:26:31
Speaker
That's not even a bad thing. It means you finally get that off your back and you don't need to fear it anymore. But she yeah, in a really cool way, it's like you've you've got that whole but that whole thing going for you where there's no bad outcome.
00:26:43
Speaker
Because even if you have really crap day, then the next time you're like, oh, I know what it feels like now. That's it. Maybe I just need to rip the bandaid off and have a really bad day at UTA. No, no. it least it's never it's never It's never something you thought. It's more something that it's like when it happens, you go, oh, okay, cool. we like its like it so I find so people often, like you fear it and how it is in your head is often so much worse than it actually is going to be in reality. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, it's so true. and And so it's almost like, yeah, once once that's happened, whenever it happens. Like, I don't wish it upon anyone, but at the same time, statistics say it will happen eventually. yeah um So just when it does, I just be like, well, okay, finally. Yeah, celebrate it.
00:27:32
Speaker
Exactly, almost celebrate it and go, well, I know bit more about running now. yeah So I'd say that's almost a good thing. But um so you said in the next few weeks, you're like prep, you're gonna be sort of doing that more focused mental prep in a way for UTA of looking into where you can improve and how things are going. and I'd just love to know what a, you've gone into this a little bit, but what does a normal Monday to Sunday of training for UTA look like for you this year?
00:28:02
Speaker
Yeah, so Monday is my rest day and then Tuesday we have intervals on the flats with a bunch of friends. um ah At the moment we're sort of doing more tempo, like longer intervals, but um earlier on we're just doing you know whatever the coach came up with.
00:28:23
Speaker
um I say coach, but she's just she's a friend, but we call her our coach. So does she write your plan or just do those sessions? Yeah, she she writes the plan. Or just not for me, but just for everyone. Yeah. i So I've just got a group of friends that we all go to. but your plan?
00:28:42
Speaker
Okay, but your plan you write or do you have someone that writes it? Yeah, I write my plan. So this is where I'm going off off of, you know, what what I'd write down. You know, I might have written down a specific, like, VO2 max interval session for Tuesday, but I've just done whatever all has come up with and and that's... And I just like doing that because I'm involved with other people and, pretty you know, it's just nicer to do it all together. So I'll do whatever Orla says on Tuesdays. And then Wednesday, generally, i'll I'll go to the gym, run to the gym from work, do a little gym workout. might be 20, 30 minutes. It's not very long. And then um so just do an hour run on top of my gym session. And then
00:29:29
Speaker
Thursdays, heel reps with friends as well. um And at the start, I was doing more, you know, faster VO2 max stuff. And now we're doing longer sort of threshold reps.
00:29:44
Speaker
Fridays are just general recovery run. I might do some stairs as well. depends how my elevation looking for the week. And Saturday, sort of longish run, one and a half hours or two hours, depends. And then Sunday, yeah, really two hours again.
00:30:01
Speaker
And that's just kind of a regular week, but every couple of weeks, three weeks or so might add in an adventure somewhere. So like the, probably the funnest one we've done recently is out Mount Osser along the Arm River River track.
00:30:15
Speaker
It's just off the overland track. So yeah, lots of fun doing those adventures. Sounds like a fun week and that's around work as a physio. Yeah, yep, so full-time work, yeah.
00:30:27
Speaker
Nice. I love that. That's a very, like, it's it's a very um what up almost, like, relatable or achievable training week in so many ways. Like, sometimes you ask someone their training week and you're like, oh, my gosh, um how does that, how do you do get that done? um But that sounds fun and sustainable and, like,
00:30:49
Speaker
or god it's got every element you need. So, absolutely love that approach. Sorry, did you say you have a coach or? No. yeah So you follow some programs that you've found online?
00:31:04
Speaker
Yeah, like I've sort of combined Hanni's trail running planner for the UT800 and the uphill trainer, um uphill athlete sort of concepts from that as well. But um like I said, um I sort of, yeah, I'm not very consistent with it, I'd say. That's all right. and I don't think, the thing is that sometimes people um are too consistent.
00:31:30
Speaker
without listening to their body. So I actually, like, my least consistent-looking training on paper is the training that I realised makes me feel the best because it tends to mean I'm actually doing, A, what I want to do and, B, what I feel good doing. But also I feel like the uphill athlete can pretty much be your coach. Jeff, I'm not sure you've read it, but if you haven't, you totally should. um it's It's a book by, I know it's by Killian, but there's the other guy. Yeah.
00:32:00
Speaker
I really should know his name. um But yeah, it has lots of like training sessions and how to how to structure a week, how to structure a year. Like it's a really good resource. So anyone out there that wants a good book to read, it's like it's science heavy, but I assume, Meg, based on being a physio, that it's the sort of stuff that gels with your brain anyway. And you can kind of use some of that knowledge to help incorporate things together. So love that you're doing that for yourself.
00:32:28
Speaker
A quick break in the show to thank Bix. Bix has just come out with their 30 gram gel in two brand new flavors. This is a new gel, new flavors. You've got the choice of the salted strawberry or the berry. The salted strawberry is also packing 300 milligrams of sodium as an increase, whereas the berry has 200 milligrams. Both make them perfect for the conditions we have in Australia, yeah whereas most gels on the market do not have sodium within them. What Bix has done here is take the recipe for the gels that work so well, that 1.8 ratio that is very, very friendly on the stomach and added a soft, subtle, but very tasty twist that you can dial in your race day and your training nutrition to that extra fine detail.
00:33:07
Speaker
As you know, bix has been supporting the show from the start and it literally helps keep the podcast coming to you every week. So if you want to support the show, level up your own nutrition game, head over to the Bix website, use our brand new code PEAK, P-E-A-K for 20% off at checkout. And with that, let's get back to the show. Awesome. Well, we do have a couple of um questions from from our Patreons for you.
00:33:32
Speaker
um And this one is an interesting one because it um actually stems from another from some of the questions we've been answering in our Patreon only post shows.
00:33:43
Speaker
But it's based around junior runners and how we how do we get junior runners and especially junior females sort of into the sport or what is the current pathway into the sport and into the elite side of trail running?
00:33:56
Speaker
So Jeremy asks, Meg, what running or sports were you doing 10 to 12 years ago um that then had your led your pathway into elite mountain and trail running?
00:34:10
Speaker
He then then does say, is this a blueprint we can encourage in more juniors? I'm going to suggest that it wasn't necessarily the like typical path in, but at the same in the same at the same time ah As I've already mentioned, like I love that you've come from such varied sport experiences to finally find your way here. But I'd love your commentary on that of like, how do you see your pathway in and do you see it as something that can be emulated by others?
00:34:39
Speaker
Hmm. Yeah, I'm not sure, I guess, I'm not sure if necessarily playing lots of different sports sort of leads to trail running. I think it's just um generally the type of person that, I mean, football for me, I'm just speaking for he myself, type of person that likes outdoors and likes hikes, but also sports.
00:35:01
Speaker
enjoying things at it at ah like a far faster pace, I guess. um Yeah, like i've I've always run just enjoyed running casually um as a part of my fitness. So then to incorporate um running with you know the outdoors and seeing different different trails in and exploring Tasmania, like that's that's what got me into it. But...
00:35:28
Speaker
um I don't really know how that could be a blueprint, I guess, just like hiking and general exploring the outdoors. But um yeah, I'm not really sure. not really sure on that one.
00:35:41
Speaker
In some ways, I do think that the essence of what you've said there is something that can be targeted. Although I must say my brain just went to, oh yeah, trail runners impatient outdoorsy people.
00:35:53
Speaker
Pretty much. We just want to see more of the outdoors faster. But also, and i've I've slowly been observing this and I am not yet sure, like my science brain is not at all yet convinced of my own theory going on here. But at the same time, there are people that trail running suits and there are people that could be incredible at trail running.
00:36:18
Speaker
but it doesn't suit them. like it It just doesn't um gel. And it's not um it's not a physical not gelling. It's in so many ways more a mental not gelling with what they want to do or what they enjoy. And my theory is that if you don't enjoy a trail running, like you're not going to be very good at it like if you don't physically want to be there.
00:36:40
Speaker
um And so that's where some of the times when talking about like recruiting juniors and those sorts of things, like Sometimes sure, recruiting, you if you really want really good runners, sure, but often it there's there's some runners that you can might try and recruit them and sure they might show a lot of potential, but they've got to also enjoy it.
00:36:58
Speaker
um And it's how do you find those people? And so so often, i think currently we hear stories like your own where people end up in trail running that the marker of them when they were younger is just outdoors.
00:37:14
Speaker
love outdoors, we'll happily go for a hike, we'll explore. And that adventurous kind of spirit in a way, it's less, slightly less the performative spirit and slightly more the adventurous spirit.
00:37:25
Speaker
um Where that leads, I'm not sure, but I suppose it's more that sometimes when targeting juniors, people like, oh, but if the best runners or the best people at performing came across, then trail running would be so much better.
00:37:38
Speaker
But there's so many examples of people I know where I'm like, they're incredible runners. but I'm really not sure they'd like it and therefore they wouldn't get be good at it. I think what um'm what I was drilling at there is like that essence of enjoying it first as a younger, girl like there was there was signs as a younger child a younger girl that you were enjoying the outdoors, enjoying movement um and putting the two together then came naturally once you did start trail running.
00:38:07
Speaker
Is that... Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Like, you know, just like the camping and the outdoors and kind of a little bit of hardship too. Like I know like road running and things like that, of course, hardship, but just, you know, getting cold and, wet and you know often you're going up hills and just it's just that different side of bit of ruggedness um and you can't really go by stats and things like when you're when you're on a road you can it's it's exciting to try and keep a certain pace and things and trail running is a little bit less yeah it's more adventurous you sort of can't stick to a plan at all times um yeah i don't i don't know it's yeah
00:38:53
Speaker
Again, I think everyone's like, I'm in the same boat, unsure, but at the same time, yeah find the kids that like outdoors can deal with unpredictability.
00:39:04
Speaker
Actually thrive in unpredictability. um And in so many ways, like, yeah, I don't think, I actually don't envision trail running ever being something as much that suits people that are going to specialize early anyway.
00:39:23
Speaker
I don't even know I've put that the right way, but it's like that mindset of being all in on something from an early age and that disciplined. I'm not even sure that mindset is as conducive in trail running anyway because of how unpredictable how much you're at the mercy of the environment.
00:39:40
Speaker
But either way. Yeah, I agree. Like it's, well, it's not, it's, it's not playful, trout you know, oh it is playful, but it's different to playing games you're a kid. You can sort of, Yeah, it's it's fun, and but same as any solo sports are a little, they're not quite as appealing for for kids, I think. Well, that's that's how it was for me anyway. You know, the team sports were really appealing, whereas the solo sports, you sort of, i don't know, people tend to do it as adults when it's more convenient, really.
00:40:12
Speaker
That's just my perspective, but yeah. 100%. Any thoughts, Jess? Well, the only other thing I can think of from a female perspective in making them more interested or like more comfortable in the sport is like, I don't know, I still like, we still hear a lot of stories um in Canberra of like women feeling uncomfortable when they're running on the trails by themselves, like early in the morning or late at night.
00:40:39
Speaker
So yeah, I guess like building more communities um within cities and towns of like female groups that run together.
00:40:49
Speaker
um Yeah, especially as like young females, it's probably something really important just to like, yeah, keep us feeling safe and able to like go out for a run on the trails, feeling safe like before or after work or before study or before school.
00:41:07
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, 100%. 100%. That's always... like it's it's almost like the infrastructure needs to be there to allow participation, especially in, going to say, junior females for that, in so like in so many ways because, yeah, how do we feel about like a 12-, 13-year-old going off in the mountains by herself for a run like in the early hours before school? Like is it is it something that you want you like Is it something that we need infrastructure there for? I think that depends on the environment and where they are um and who's around, e cetera. But yeah, it's important to then look at sort of the structures in place that allow it to happen. Like for you, Meg, your family was allowing you to have that exploration and have that outdoors time that then helped develop um they're into your capabilities today. But can we set things up that are actually going to help
00:42:30
Speaker
age twelve to seventeen youth category um And in their their upcoming event, I'm not sure which event, let me have a quick look, but not only have they added that as a category within the 12 and a half K, I believe it is, they've also um given a 20% $20 discount code for juniors, recognizing that cost is sometimes and a factor that contributes to not as many juniors participating.
00:43:02
Speaker
um But yeah, I love this. And like already within our Patreon, like this was something that was posted by Jeff in our Patreon and already James is there going, well, this is something I can implement in my races and if trying to provide sort of a structure or a template of what other races can possibly do in these sorts of things. So i love that.
00:43:40
Speaker
Yeah, it's awesome. It's definitely what we need to keep growing the sport from ah from the ground up. Definitely. Sorry, I'm just reading this post and I love what Jeff as jeff has done here. So i'm going to actually um put this post in our show notes.
00:43:55
Speaker
because he's even put in like he's got eligibility eligibility criteria for junior runners but it's it's targeted at the parents um and it it kind of almost gives them a guide on training um like saying like don't know in recent rapid increases in training volume follow a gradual progression um like and saying that the child needs to be able to comfortably complete eight to ten kilometers on mixed terrain in order to enter the 12 and a half k so doing due diligence and going is this a good idea but also how to actually get your child to that point where they can do it which love that guidance go jeff um because sometimes that's half the problem it's like sure you open the doors but is that always a good idea if you to open the doors without guidance on
00:44:50
Speaker
when it's actually a good idea to participate so go Jeff. Other news for the week Hut to Hut. Jess you've never been to Hut to Hut and neither you by the sounds Meg but you would love Hut to Hut I reckon because it's very it's like similar vibes to Kunanye in a way and this race in particular that they've just added which changes the format entirely of Hut2Hut, which is a very big event here in Victoria. um Normally has the 100K, the 50K, the Oscars 100K.
00:45:24
Speaker
Oscars 100K course is getting a rest next year in 2027. And in its place, they have announced Bob's Round, which is another forty eight k It's a 48K with over 3000 meters of elevation gain though.
00:45:39
Speaker
And it gets, the four mile spur it gets in the west ridge of mount bulla and just the course looks incredible so essentially the oscar's hut to hut is becoming two 50ks like if you want to do the 100k it's a multi-day 50k with you can do one or the other but you can also just do the whole thing so loving that they're branching out i don't know how people are going to feel people let us know how you feel about The hundred k option not being there. Personally, I've been waiting years to do this 100K and they have promised me it's coming back.
00:46:15
Speaker
um So I will get to do it one day. But for anyone that's looking for a really gnarly 50K course, possibly, and obviously Archie's is already there, um check out Bob's Round at Hut2Hut because this looks brutal and beautiful all at the same time.
00:47:27
Speaker
um Awesome. Jess, you want to take us to some results? So there's two epic road results that just happened. Yeah, so um in Canberra, we had the Canberra Marathon, which is a road race, but we had one of our top trail runners lining up. So Demi Caldwell was lining up for her debut marathon, so her first ever road marathon.
00:47:55
Speaker
um And so I was down there crewing for Demi, um so handing her some bottles. But, yeah, it the weather was... really like not ideal. um Like on paper, it looked like it was going to be perfect, like cold and not too windy. But when I got down there, it was quite windy um and a little bit rainy. yeah, and like the course um is not the fastest course. So it's got about 300 metres of elevation gain, which is
00:48:29
Speaker
probably similar to the old Melbourne course. um And it's a little bit more windy, so it's got a lot of kind of yeah U-turns in it. um So, yeah, Demi's win in a time of 2.43.24 is pretty amazing um given, yeah, the conditions in the course. um I think that's an epic run. I was actually, like, riding around the course with her coach and even he – sort of estimated that she would be around 248. So she absolutely smashed her goal time, which is amazing. So yeah, well done to Demi. um Exciting, um yeah, fitness ahead of UTA 50 coming up in a few
00:49:18
Speaker
I'm not sure Melbourne has ever had that much elevation gain. I'm pretty sure Melbourne's more in the like 130 realm. Okay, sorry. i think I think that's like double as much elevation as Melbourne.
00:49:30
Speaker
Just in case there are people out there, like I'm giving Demi some credit here. I'm pretty sure it's a lot hillier than Melbourne's ever been. ah Sorry, maybe was thinking of Sydney. possibly Possibly. I think Sydney, sydney yes. Sydney, yes.
00:49:44
Speaker
Yes. um But yes, regardless, it was an awesome run. Go Demi. And we also had Lucy Bartholomew um over in Paris Marathon, um and she ran 2.41.07, which is very fast as well. I don't know if she's done another road marathon before or if that was her debut, but um she, so from the sounds of it, she did a massive training week in the lead up to this race. So definitely didn't taper in, which is...
00:50:19
Speaker
Super impressive and slightly scary. Just a little bit. she's ah Lucy's done like a few marathons. I'm not sure she's ever done one seriously. I'm not sure you could call her debut when I'm like, she's done Melbourne and stuff before I believe.
00:50:44
Speaker
Awesome. for some very very very different results um but over in wa there was the delirious west which is one of them wild 200 mile events um which yeah i'm like even as i'm looking at these results i'm like i'm not entirely sure contextually on like what they mean but they sound impressive and anyone that's run 200 miles, my hat's off to you.
00:51:11
Speaker
But in the 200 miles on the men's, it was won by Chris Atkinson in 67 hours and 30 minutes. And in the women's, Hester Nord in 74 hours 01. We will say, we think we've got it right.
00:51:27
Speaker
But James has note made a note here that the results are kind of a mess and here there's no genders. So we hope that's right. And then in the 100 mile, Justin Mulhair won the men's in 24 hours and 32 minutes and Becca Stahl won the women's in 32 hours, 25 minutes, which sounds like a beast. um So congrats to everyone they are And then I'll quickly take us to Alpine Challenge here in Vic, which was an unfortunate one. it was one that was affected by weather. um So that snow you had down in Tassie, Meg, we also had some up here in Vic. There was quite a bit of snow up the mountains.
00:52:05
Speaker
So they had to, few days prior, they had to cancel the 100k and 100 mile which I was actually meant to go up and medic for and then my shift got cancelled so it meant my weekend in the mountains got taken away too um but that's okay.
00:52:20
Speaker
The 100k was shifted to a two-day format 60k is one day 42 the next and then they kept the rest of the races so well done to the organisers for making that happen because there was a lot of logistics that went on behind the scenes to make that happen.
00:52:35
Speaker
But the 100k two-day, on the men's side, it was won by James Quaife in 9 hours 15.37 and on the women's Jordan Mackie Richards in 10 hours 36. The 60k was won by Logan Welsh and actually Jordan Mackie Richards won the 60k. So she's got the two-day and started off strong.
00:52:58
Speaker
um In the marathon, Harrison Flynn was the male winner and Tilly Sandback, the female. In the 25, Nicole Patton was out there and won the women's with Rowan Jones running a new course record in the men's.
00:53:15
Speaker
And then finally, Madeline Taft won the 10K in the women's side and Thomas Newman won it in the men's. Jess, you want to take us to Run Tarra Bulga? Yep.
00:53:26
Speaker
So, um yeah, I think the Run Tarra Bulga was um sort of affected by a bit of the weather over the weekend as well. um Yeah, just talking to Kate, she said the trails were super muddy and like a bit slow, just with a bit of debris and everything over the course. um But we had, so in the marathon distance, the 42K, in the men, the winner was Sav Mavrof, sorry, I can't pronounce your last name, but I've definitely recognised that name. Mavrof Redis, I think is how it goes.
00:54:04
Speaker
Yeah. um was the winner in 3 hours 30, so well done to Sav. Courtney Ellis was the first female in 4 hours 02.
00:54:16
Speaker
um And then in the 25K, we had Damien Smith in as the first male in 1 hour 54, and Kate Avery was the first female 2 hours 12.
00:54:30
Speaker
um And then in the 6K, had Dempsey Podmore as the first male in 29-16.
00:54:37
Speaker
And Trudy Harrison was the first female in 37-33. I think that's quite a fast time by Courtney Ellis there in the marathon. Yeah, she's super fit at the moment. I'm actually coaching her um and she's definitely more focused on the roads. She's doing Ballarat half um and a marathon after that.
00:54:57
Speaker
But, yeah, she's just a little beast. Like, she... Yeah, she does a lot of training on the bike, so she's just ah an aerobic powerhouse. Awesome.
00:55:07
Speaker
Last but not least, we have the Jabalani Challenge in New South Wales, which was won on the men's by Man Kumar Rokhamagat in 3 hours 55. And on the women's, Anna Pillinger was out there in 4 hours 54. The 22K was won by Hannah Gumley and Dan Hall, and the 12K was won by Alex Fontana and Lachlan Jones.
00:55:30
Speaker
And we also had the Grand Clifftop Race, which was organised by Lou Clifton, a very well-known runner in the trail scene, and it was won by two pretty big names, Ben St Lawrence on the men's side in an hour 25 and Sarah Levitt on the women's in an hour 42. So that's cool to see. There's so many people that were out this weekend.
00:55:50
Speaker
Yeah, it was a big weekend. It's starting to get in. It's in that time of year where, like, usually we have good weather, so I guess a lot of trail races are on. Yeah. um Now, just quickly before we finish up, I've just realized, Jess, how are you going?
00:56:05
Speaker
I don't know, like because I haven't chatted to you in ages. um But um how have how has your body been since Buffalo and what is next for you? Yeah, it's been good. um Yes, I took a little bit of a break after Buffalo, like a week off from training. um And yeah, i am planning on doing UTA 20. I've got a ticket for that. um But yeah, I am still, I don't know, like, yeah, had a chat to Kate after Buffalo. I'm in a little bit of a, like, weird spot at the moment where I feel like um things aren't going super well.
00:56:51
Speaker
um Yeah, I don't know. I'm just not... it's yeah i feel like I'm putting a lot of effort into training but not getting much out of it um and yeah like still having a few gut issues so like at Buffalo I had gut issues again um before the race which is just frustrating and I think yeah it's just getting a bit like um it's just yeah it's sort of taking the fun out of it like having that happen because it it just stops you from being able to kind of
00:57:22
Speaker
yeah, like feel your best and show um the hard work that you've done in training. So I think, yeah, just mentally at the moment, I'm finding it tough to have like the motivation. um So yeah, had a chat to Kate about how you can change up the training. And I think we're going to try um a bit more cycling just to like change it up. I feel like I've been doing sort of the same routine for a while. yeah,
00:57:47
Speaker
um be good to just, like, change it up and have a different stimulus. um And, yeah, I've still got ages until kind of, like, OCC, which will be my big race for the year. So, yeah, just wanting to hopefully, like, get through this little mental block that I have at the moment um with, like, lower pressure training, a bit more, like, cross training and say yes see if that works. um But, yeah, like, I'm still...
00:58:17
Speaker
still healthy, which is amazing. Like my body feels super strong. Um, yeah. One like positive I took away from Buffalo, which I'm sure you'd be proud to hear as my descending is feeling really good.
00:58:32
Speaker
So middle, I was vibing down middle track, which was pretty cool. ah So yeah, definitely like improving in some areas. Um, yeah, it's just the uphill running isn't feeling great at the moment and things like that. So um Yeah, we'll keep trying to figure it out. all There'll be answers somewhere. Meg, this isn't just as Jess was talking, this has made me think. Meg, do you still incorporate cycling into your training week, like if you're deep in also to mountain bike riding?
00:59:02
Speaker
Not really. I kind of just save all my energy for the like running. Yeah, yeah really. Yeah. And have you had to deal with many, like, and especially as you say, you get quite anxious around races yourself, Meg.
00:59:17
Speaker
Like, do you find that comes with stomach and nutrition troubles as well, pre-race or during or at all, or you had deal with that? No, I've actually, I've got a notoriously good stomach for that. So even though I get pretty nervous for it, it's, it's um I do settle old do it during the race and I,
00:59:36
Speaker
I can eat pretty well fine, um which is, yeah, I think I'm just lucky. I don't know. I actually don't train with them. think I'm just lucky, of those people, you know. That's annoying. Sorry, Jess, that's so painful.
00:59:55
Speaker
No, it's it's fine. We'll be very envious of you, me and Jess over here with our pesky stomachs that hate everything. um But, Jess, there's always so many different answers of things you can find to take it to someone from someone. Like I take, yeah like i have I have to take more medications on race day to actually make my stomach do the thing that actually makes it take in nutrition and all those sorts of things. Like and once you've got a good sort of gastroenterologist behind you and people in your corner that can help, like yeah if it is something that like is like,
01:00:31
Speaker
like needs biological fixing in a way like there's so many answers um it's just a half of it is figuring out what exactly um is the cause but trial and error trial and error um i think um and as you said like you've slowly found some recently how is that going like in in are you finding training and in tempos and thresholds and those sorts of things nutrition is still better Uh, no.
01:01:00
Speaker
Yeah, I'm still like, yeah, not great. When I whenever I like try to push myself, um I've just got this like, automatic um reaction to stress now.
01:01:14
Speaker
yeah lovely which is annoying i think yeah i need to train i'm gonna i still haven't done it yet but i i want to try that nerva um yes hu yes yeah yeah definitely try that and also i actually think bike's a great idea because you might find it's easier to push hard on the bike and try and get nutrition in while pushing hard there to then train your body to kind of least at least take it in while working hard and then work on the shaking up and down running part of things yeah um like i've absolutely no science but in my brain that sounds like a logical step um and like i personally found it a lot easier to get a lot of nutrition in on the bike before i was able to get it in on the run yeah so fingers crossed that might help too but uh
01:02:07
Speaker
Watch this space full detail of the journey team as always. Highs and lows for all of us here. and what about you? How have you been going? Good in a way. It's interesting um because I was chatting to a friend today and i was like, in so many ways, I still feel like utter crap, but I know why.
01:02:27
Speaker
and therefore it's a bit like, eh, like it's just not as much of a mental drain um because not only do I know why, but it is improving. So it's almost like when I do feel really bad, I'm just like, it's okay, it's temporary kind of thing, or at least I have answers. um But long story short, um essentially it seems to be that by treating my mast cell activation syndrome, which sounds, it's a really fancy way of saying I'm allergic to bloody everything, um
01:03:01
Speaker
seems to have actually made the biggest difference so i actually started a brand new medication for it which is like an immune system modulator thing like it's trying to dampen down my immune system and that my rheumatologist prescribed and I started that the day I flew out to China which probably don't recommend but at the same time um it's almost like things turned a corner pretty quickly after that in terms of just how I felt because now I just feel really unfit.
01:03:31
Speaker
um And it's no longer that feeling of running along going, I feel unfit and like something's really horribly wrong. and It's more of running along and going, oh no, now I'm just unfit, it's fine. So yeah, long story short, um I'm essentially training as if I'm just trying to rebuild fitness again now, which meant last week I got a whole 70 Ks of running in, which- times is that and like that had it was my very first time finally since I don't even know when um that I just did the full group session like no adaptations no like we're changing this up for you longer recoveries etc and I was so nervous before the session i was just like oh my gosh can I do this anymore and then by the end of the session I'm typical me in the last minute trying to sprint off racing everyone because hell yeah i did it
01:04:25
Speaker
um So, yeah, and I'm also realising and it's fine. It's going to be so fine. um But I got out yesterday to do 25Ks with 1,700 metres up and down, which took me four hours, which sounds like a ridiculously long run for where I'm at, but I was going very slow and it's because I've signed up for Diverge 50K, which is in three weeks. hu Ah. Because...
01:04:51
Speaker
It just excites me. I'm like, oh I don't even care how long it takes. I get to go spend 50Ks out in the West Coast, it's like in the West parts of Tassie, up and down a mountain, and it looks super technical and like my kind of race. But it's 50Ks with 3,200 or something meters up and down. So I went out yesterday and I'm like, okay, if I can't like make my way through half of it today, there's no way I can do double that in three weeks. um So essentially I set myself that challenge and trudged along and I got it done. My goodness, my legs were pretty done by about 15K of that much climb, but I'll make it, it'll be fine.
01:05:33
Speaker
It'll be so fine. But, yeah, that's where I'm at. I'm kind of in this space of I have a geneticist appointment still in two weeks so they can figure out what's genetically wrong with me, which just for the consult costs $900. Like before any testing. That's before they do anything. i just Just to see the person is $900 and then it's $1,500 so to get the testing and then you have to pay for another consult.
01:06:10
Speaker
So happy days. Awesome. Well, we are going to finish up the main show there. um But just quickly, what's coming up is the Huon Hill Riverina trail running series round one, which is our very own James Seavers event up on the border of Vick and New South Wales. and There's also the Maroondah Dam trail runs down here in Vic. Five Peaks Trail Running set Festival in South Australia. So good luck to everyone in SA Listening that's running at Five Peaks. I'm very jealous. I love that event. so go enjoy the hell out of it for me.
01:06:46
Speaker
That's a great one. And, Jess, I reckon that's a 50K you'd enjoy at some point. Like it it's fun um and it's really like just the trails of fun in a way. and Yeah, I'd certainly look into it because also it's like point to point.
01:07:15
Speaker
Well, thank you, Meg, for joining us for the main show. um If you do have time, stick around because we've got a couple of Patreon-only questions that we're going to be answering. Anyone listening ah that isn't yet a Patreon, if you would like to join, it's all in the show notes, the links to click um and you'll get access to all the bonus content we've been putting out, including these post-show questions um where we can get a little more deep dive into things behind the paywall.
01:07:44
Speaker
But otherwise, thank you so much, everyone, for listening. Thanks, Jess, for your lovely insights as always. And... Yeah, we'll speak to you next week.
01:07:57
Speaker
Thanks, guys. Thanks.