Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Vibes Based Training, Long Race Logistics, and KMR Preview feat. Ben Butler | Episode 102
360 Plays2 days ago
In this episode brought to you by ASICS, Sim and James sit down with young gun Ben Butler to hear all about his approach to running and why he has chosen to tackled the longer stuff while still so young. We think many people could learn from his calm, mature mentality and approach to training and hope it takes him far!
Then we have a preview of this weekends Kunanyi Mountain Run, focussing on the Australina Mountain Running Champs, before the rest of the weeks results and a listener question about preparing drop bags/crew for longer races.
We hope you enjoy!
To join our Patreon head HERE
Results:
- Noosa Ultra Trail (QLD)
- Run The Rock (VIC)
- Sydney Trail Half Marathon - Night Edition (NSW)
- Sydney Trail Summer Series 3: Manly Dam (NSW)
- Washpool World Heritage Trail Race (NSW)
- Tamworth Trailblazer (NSW)
- Conquer the Summit (SA)
***Don’t forget, use code PEAK at https://bix-hydration.myshopify.com/en-au for 20% off Bix products, exclusive to PPP listeners!***
Thanks for tuning in to Peak Pursuits!
Connect with us on Instagram @peakpursuits.pod to share your thoughts, questions, and your own trail stories. Until next time, keep hitting the trails and chasing those peak pursuits!
Follow James: Instagram | Strava | Website
Follow Sim: Instagram | Strava
Follow Ben: Instagram | Strava
Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!):https://uppbeat.io/t/mood-maze/trendsetter License code: K08PMQ3RATCE215R
Recommended
Transcript
00:00:00
Speaker
This episode is brought to you by ASICS, proud supporters of Aussie Trail Running and our very own Jess Jason. With the new Tribuco 14, ASICS continues to deliver a premium cushion comfort paired with all-terrain performance, including a redesigned trail fit that will have you confident in navigating the most challenging terrain.
00:00:15
Speaker
Head to ASICS.com.au to find out more.
00:00:26
Speaker
Hello and welcome to episode 102 of the Peak Pursuits podcast. My name is Simone Brick and I am joined today by the lovely James Sieber. How are we doing James?
00:00:38
Speaker
Doing well as always. Good to be here. Nice to ah be back on for another main show. It's always good fun chatting through everything for the week. Yeah, and when it's just me and James, we promise not to to try not to hold you for too many hours.
00:00:51
Speaker
um We can get chatting. making i promise. it's just It's just easier to set expectations. This is true. This is true. Especially when we are also joined this week by special guest, Ben Butler. Welcome to the pod, Ben.
00:01:07
Speaker
Hey, thanks for having me on. Good to be You are more than welcome. I'm actually really excited for this because you are a very fresh face in the sport, for me at least, Ben, um and you are still only 20, I believe, am I correct? 19. 19, geez, not even, under 20, love that. um So i don't know a huge amount about about you and I don't know, James is normally the one that does all the sleuthing behind the scenes so he might have picked up a little bit more.
00:01:35
Speaker
um But recently we saw you at... correct me snowy mountains 50k yeah yeah that's right perfect and actually i'd love to go back to before then we saw you there but when did you start running slash trail running and what's the journey to get to there before we then look at what's coming up because there's some exciting things coming Yeah, right.
00:02:02
Speaker
um So, mean, running has always been something I've done, always been a runner. um But training-wise, like started in early 2023, like trail running. Yeah, nice. Yeah.
00:02:19
Speaker
So, and then first race was late August, no, early August, ah the day after I turned 18. So I was able to actually enter.
00:02:30
Speaker
Was your first race the Hume Hubbell 50k? No, it was Canberra one hundred k ah thought' That's even better, Ben. That's great. yeah because like The thing that stood out the most from looking at your results is like we we weve knew you were young and you've come in and you've just hit like multiple hundreds and then actually looks like you've gone down a bit and towards Buffalo we're doing now. but like What was that initial drive to go long?
00:02:58
Speaker
ah I just like running, so it's a better option to be outside longer, I guess. ah and i'm made avoid yeah I've always been, I would say, better at the endurance stuff and in the past, but yeah, trying to mix it up a bit now.
00:03:15
Speaker
ah You know, shorter races I just like doing because it's not as much impact and can still have the fun of racing, so mixing it up a bit this year. Yeah, nice. what ah What gave you the indication, like what did you do before running that gave you the indication that you're better off you're better at endurance?
00:03:33
Speaker
ah I wouldn't say there's much other than just running. Like when I started training properly, like I was able to do, you know, longer runs on the trails. and ah Not too much, you know, I was able to do them easily.
00:03:49
Speaker
So, yeah. Yeah. ah easier than I'd say like doing a speed session or something. I just enjoyed it more. Fair, fair. Go after what you enjoy. um i like that. I like that strategy and it seems to be very much working for you. James, you'll have more of his results handy. um what were What were you free with the early ones?
00:04:10
Speaker
Well, ah before I go through the results, because I said is it everything's pretty pretty recent, you said you've always been running, but prior to 23, not on the trails. Were you doing any form of racing on track or roads or anything prior or just no?
00:04:26
Speaker
No, um just like, you know, school carnivals and ah just running just by myself for fun, mainly more than training. um I did, actually, no, there was something.
00:04:39
Speaker
When I did like a 50K on the track, I don't know how many years, five years ago or something. So but maybe it was that, and I liked doing that.
00:04:52
Speaker
Okay, what prompts a 14-year-old to do a 50K on the track? i like That wouldn't have even entered my mind at that age. I don't really have an answer. I just like running, i guess.
00:05:05
Speaker
ah You are built for the trails, man. You are built for the trails. This is great. What does like your parents or friends think about the fact that because if I if if I was 17 18 getting into 100 K's like results you said that that Cameron 100 K's and who home or 50 last year was Oscars 100 K Buffalo 100 K and like they're getting pretty much top five and everything if not podium like that's not the typical thing that a late teenager would take up and start getting into so what does everyone think about it?
00:05:36
Speaker
Oh, don't know. I get, they think it's, i don't know. They're always like, don't understand, I guess. So it's, it's hard for them to judge, you know, what it really is. Cause they all think, know, it's like amazing, but that's what everyone who looks from the outside thinks about it.
00:05:52
Speaker
Uh, you know, but I mean, it's just running really, But also, yeah, don't know, used to hike a bit more as well. um So maybe that was something that got me into it, being out for multiple days and that. But yeah, but people were generally pretty supportive of me, I guess.
00:06:12
Speaker
yeah love that yeah it's it's it's good to see like and i was looking through some of your it's always a bit of a question but there's a cycled race for you that kind of brings together everything and has some park runs and stuff and it's not if it's got the right person you're definitely not a slouch like it's got a few low 16 minute 5ks is that cool correct yeah ran then i don't have an exact time but something like that so Yeah. so having come in feeling like you more endurance focused, not really like into the speed stuff, but that's, that's pretty good go going. like we're talking end of 24 here as well. So it's not, this is this isn't like just, just last week. If you just found that you've, you've adapted and you just like the, the improvements have come pretty quickly since you started.
00:06:57
Speaker
Yeah, um I mean like my shorter, like 5k time for example, it's definitely just dropped mainly just from running more. and But yeah, just sort of went away from it just because I didn't find much enjoyment in it.
00:07:10
Speaker
um Liked being out on the trails more. And I guess that just naturally goes to longer, and I feel. But yeah, just jump straight to the the big stuff.
00:07:22
Speaker
Yeah, and like for your training um currently and I suppose in the past, have you ever had a coach or do you have a coach now? No, just self.
00:07:32
Speaker
I wouldn't even call it self-coaching. It's just more I do what I want. Vibes-based, vibes-based training. yeah is that what we're going on? Yeah, much just a very young feel.
00:07:44
Speaker
Okay, okay. So what does that then actually look like in practice for how a normal week might pan out in your training life? ah Normally it just consist of like running Tuesday to Sunday and then do it.
00:08:00
Speaker
If I'm training for a race, I do a speed session on Tuesdays and Thursdays and then just a long run Sunday. and pretty much just follows that. But I just make stuff up.
00:08:12
Speaker
Like it's not a real speed session. It's just going out and running fast. Can you give us an example? ah Like maybe like three times 10 minutes uphill and just going out and running it hard and yeah, something like that. That sounds thing where're pretty good Yeah, I feel like what you're finding there, Ben, is what's true is that like as long as you're not cooking yourself, doing lots of easy, some moderate, some hard, it gets you pretty fit.
00:08:40
Speaker
It's like it's not it's not complicated, especially when you're newer to the sport and you haven't like got to the point where you have to get a little bit sort of inventive, as you say, or just thinking it a bit more nuanced about it. it's It's just train hard and it works as long as you're recovering well enough off it.
00:08:55
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, what it is to be 19 and able to just throw everything at the wall and know you're going to get better. um In another 10 years, Ben, you might have to be a little little even more inventive with science-based stuff. But for now, I love this approach because it's, to me, what I what i so hear when someone's saying that they're sort of listening to what they want to do and loving it and enjoying it.
00:09:20
Speaker
it's the perfect way for longevity and to actually enjoy the sport and to not burn your body out or your mind out. um Despite the fact that you're doing all these really long races, it's like, well, you might be the person that burns out quicker doing shorter races because you don't enjoy them. So that's where i love hearing everything you're saying here based around your your training and racing philosophy. um Yeah, it's a very cool journey so far. What does life outside running look like for you? are Currently just working full time and then pretty much everything else is just running. Like, you know, it's what I look forward to the most in the week.
00:09:57
Speaker
Like just holding out to the weekend getting to go on a long run. Like that's just what I like doing. Nice. And what's work? Just working in a, like a loading dock. So stacking pallets, you know, that kind of stuff.
00:10:10
Speaker
Not very interesting, but, and so I'm on my feet all day. So I guess that might help with that, but yeah. Yeah, to do you find that having a more physical job detracts away from your running? you get to the end of the week and just feel a bit flat?
00:10:27
Speaker
ah Yeah, I mean, I definitely feel the impact of, you know, working, but just the excitement to go and run, i guess, just sort of puts that to the side. And I always just run to feel anyway, so I'm not going to push myself too hard if I'm feeling, you know, fatigued. Yeah, yeah.
00:10:45
Speaker
That's cool. I like that. I like i people that I coach that have more physical jobs. Like that has to be how you go about it. If you have this expectation of what you want at the end of the day, especially because they're often have to train in the afternoon, they start early. Like it's just a very quick recipe to burning yourself out or getting injured. So it's good. It's good to hear that you're happy to just like be like, it doesn't matter if i had this in my head, this is how i feel. And that's what I'm to Yeah.
00:11:08
Speaker
Looking more at your results, I remember we spoke about on the pod your Oscars performance where you came second last year. And especially given your age, I was quite surprised to see you then back up with another really good run at fourth at Buffalo, 100K.
00:11:24
Speaker
like That's what, six, five or six weeks later. How did you find that double up on your body? And did they the race at Buffalo, did you feel like you had as much energy and fight there? ah I would say recovery after hot to Hut was, I mean, my recovery after most races isn't too bad.
00:11:42
Speaker
um Like I sort of feel well like how I was before the week after. um But, I mean, I guess I don't really have a baseline to know how I felt in Buffalo because I've only done two other races a hundred k before that. um But, don't know, I felt like I wouldn't train and felt pretty normal. So I guess recovered well.
00:12:05
Speaker
It's a good sign. When, when you're racing, have you dived into the world of like getting your fueling and your hydration dialed in? ah It hasn't really been too much of an issue for me. i I've been able to hit the high carb since pretty much doing my first race.
00:12:25
Speaker
yeah It's just, yeah, getting the building the gut training to sustain it for longer. and But I feel like I've improved on that pretty well. so When you say high carb, like a rough number?
00:12:40
Speaker
uh like 100 an hour like i think at gpt i did about 100 an hour the whole time i think it's a really good indication of like if when you're able to throw that much into your body like it does make a big difference what you can recover from and back up from and especially just tolerating the training load let alone the racing load but the gpt and unless sim you have any more questions on that no gpt had a dnf what happened there It was just one of those days where something just fell off um and then just made stupid mistakes, you know, going into the night with the weather.
00:13:16
Speaker
and But, you know, still got what I wanted out of it was just just to have fun. um So, yeah, you know, I'd just move on from it. It's a learning experience. I know what to not do next time.
00:13:27
Speaker
Man, so many people can learn from that outlet of um outlook of looking at a DNF and going, I still got what I wanted out of it. It was great. Like that is what I keep trying to tell so many people um that I coach or I'm around of going, the DNFs are worth it too because you still learn something. You still got better from doing it because you learned something about how to cope with, for you, like certain weather or those sorts of things. And some days your body's just not there and that's okay. um So that outlook.
00:14:00
Speaker
is awesome is there anything that like helps you have that or is it just that you're ah one of those chill humans that it comes naturally yeah don't know I just try not to get too stressed about it and you know just if it doesn't go well just move on um but yeah i mean like that race is just so fun like had such a great time training for it running it um so Yeah, success in my in my eyes. You did DNF, but that's fine. I can always do it in the future. It's like having only known you for literally 15 minutes, there's a lot of green ticks for somebody that's going to have longevity in the sport. Like, yes, it may not be the typical thing to jump straight into 100Ks or when you're 15 or 14, let alone like now.
00:14:46
Speaker
But that outlook, fueling, effort-based training, like and I've had a look at your training, it doesn't seem like you're trying to constantly push it, like try and do too much. It it looks, whether it is completely random, but it it looks like it is controlled in in a sense and purposeful, um even if that's just you knowing exactly what you need, not trying to be like...
00:15:07
Speaker
x is doing 140 or 150 so i'm going to try and chase that um it's it's good to hear man it's yeah it's it's exciting as well because you're you already showed like some really really good ability the run at snowy's also showed that you've got some got some wheels on the track on the trails as well there's the the local half marathon i was really impressed with that you want to do the cohen cohen half is that the name oh yeah cohen forest Yeah, which is was a – I noted that down like a 3.35 gap over that in the build-up towards Buffalo. is It's a good sign.
00:15:39
Speaker
Yeah, just headed out to that for some fun. So you usually they are the key for signing up to a race, I like signing up you know like a few days before and just going and no no expectations, you know nothing to lose. So just go and run and have fun. And that's probably where I get my best results as well. Yeah, absolutely.
00:16:00
Speaker
Yeah, I was about to say, don't lose that. Like no matter where running takes you, don't lose that. Because I feel like there's so many times that it's when someone loses that, like, this is mostly just for fun vibe or like mentality. that things can start to actually go south because you think too much or you you put too much pressure on one result. So if there's if there's one piece of advice I can give you, it's do not lose that. That is gold what you've got right there of just enjoying the process because that's why we do it anyway, right?
00:16:31
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. I'm almost reluctant to ask this question because of what Simmers has just said, but we're on a podcast and I kind of have to. How have you found, like we're going into Buffalo in 26, you've put some good results on the brand. You're currently on the podcast right now. We've spoken about you in the preview, which I would really advise you don't listen to. i don't think anyone should listen to the preview if they're racing it like full stop. Yep.
00:16:54
Speaker
ah are you noticing any switch in your head and in your mindset at all towards these these things knowing that there are like is a little bit of attention on you no uh not too much um i mean obviously there's definitely the underlying pressure but you know i'm just excited to go and run like that's why i signed up for it i signed up before it like pretty much as soon as i was able to i signed up Wasn't even thinking about the long course. I don't think that was even announced yet.
00:17:25
Speaker
So um yeah, just want to go run it again because I had such a good time loss last year. Yeah. Perfect. Good. It's good to hear. Very good to hear. Yes. Another green tick. um And yeah, I definitely think most people need to heed that advice of like the, as you said, James, don't listen to previews and don't listen to things if they're going to change the mentality about the race. um sometimes Sometimes I actually find they get me more hyped for a race and excited. Yeah. Um, but then it depends on the person and you've got to know yourself in that way. Um, which yeah, sounds like Ben, you're definitely doing a good job of figuring your own body and mind out when it comes to this running thing. But how are you feeling? How's training gone for Buffalo and like, how are you feeling leading into the race being it with it being this week? Yeah. Training,
00:18:16
Speaker
You know, just comes week by week, feeling good, so feeling fit. um But, yeah, like I'm picking up maybe a bit of sickness this week, so I'm just trying to focus on getting there healthy.
00:18:30
Speaker
ah But otherwise, yeah, feeling good. Good, good. What does a normal taper look like for you? but do you like to Have you figured out what your body feels best off but in the week of the race? Yeah.
00:18:42
Speaker
For most of my past races, I've maybe done like one run in the week. And then, you know, the week before maybe cut it down 30, 40%. this week, yeah, I'm probably just going to not do any run, just try and get better, make sure I'm 100% or as good as I can be.
00:19:02
Speaker
and it comes to so long. Amazing. renew I love that. Coming off um off knowing what you know, like the the course has barely changed this year for Buffalo from last year, just like one tiny tiny bit up at Cresta.
00:19:13
Speaker
And you had it you obviously you had a good day there. You came fourth, but there's always going to be time that you can make up. You're a year older, a year more training. What do you feel like you're bringing into this year that you didn't have last year?
00:19:24
Speaker
Yeah. Well, last year i feel like I left a lot of time out there. Yeah. like absolutely cooked at the start run with the lead guys. um And then just, I got can't even remember the back half. That's sort of the state I got to. um Yeah, right.
00:19:43
Speaker
Nutrition wasn't going down. um So I'd say I definitely have a lot of time out there, but also just like training wise, like, Since then, don't know, my training's just completely changed.
00:19:54
Speaker
Like, and just, I can feel that I'm in much better position than I was last year. um But yeah, just, you know, just months of just stacking on training. Like, my winter training last year was really good.
00:20:08
Speaker
um But yeah, just consistently just running and feeling good. So I feel like I can improve quite a bit on the time last year and just experience from races. I should, you know, be able to execute a bit better because execution was the the big four last year.
00:20:28
Speaker
Do you feel like at least to start with GPT until the weather side of things, do you feel like you started that race better than say you did at Buffalo? um I reckon I could have gone a bit quicker, um maybe get to the less technical bits in the dark slash in the rain. and But I mean, I couldn't have foreseen that really.
00:20:47
Speaker
I didn't know how quite how bad it was going to be. and yeah But that was also just a bit of an execution issue in the back half. Yeah. But heve even that, the fact that you've, you've almost over-adjusted a bit too much, a lot of people would have gone out too fast at Buffalo and then just done the same thing again, because that's just in the nature and they get, get caught up in the moment at the start line. And then so the fact that you were like, actually know, feel like this time I could have gone a bit faster. It's, it's good. Like it's diet it's, it's how you're dialing yourself in and say you might go out too fast or too slow at Buffalo, but it's going to keep getting closer and closer to what your, your line is, which is,
00:21:22
Speaker
It's an exciting, exciting prospect. And now that there is the the long trail national champs, obviously you're under 20, but kind of ignoring the age, age side of things.
00:21:32
Speaker
Is that a consideration that you're like, yeah gives you a bit of extra fight on the day? Yeah, it's definitely a motivator. Um, like being able to represent for the country would be like an amazing opportunity, but, um,
00:21:48
Speaker
Yeah, i'm I'm just going to run how I feel and I'm not going to try and worry too much about what other people are doing, just run my own race this time. and and I reckon I'll do a lot better.
00:22:00
Speaker
Perfect. i'm I'm going to press you little bit because I'm just curious. How much time or how much faster do you think you can go? ah my My sort of time goal is under 11.30. Cool.
00:22:14
Speaker
um but cool Yeah, sort of arbitrary. Just got to find out what I can do, really. Yeah. Considering I was completely cooked at like 30Ks last year, was to not do that.
00:22:28
Speaker
I feel like anything will be better than that. Yeah. Definitely. It was definitely a bit of a suffer fest in the back half. Oh, goodness. No, that's most people's worst nightmare in 100k. 30k is not far enough in to be feeling bad.
00:22:42
Speaker
and Not at all. um Yeah, and I've been there in my only 100k. And so I know the feels and it's just shocking. Absolutely. Absolutely. but yeah it's I'm so excited to see how things slowly pan out for you over the over the coming years, Ben. It's going to be one hell of a ride, I have no doubt. And even if, like no matter what happens at Buffalo, i have every faith that you keep going on the path you're on and you'll be in an Aussie vest at some point in the coming years. because
00:23:13
Speaker
I think so much of ah trail running does a really good job of rewarding longevity in the sport, but also just smart training and consistent training, which it sounds like you're doing a great job of getting under your belt um in a very mature manner, despite being one of the youngest. on i'm i'm I'm going to assume in the 100K, there wouldn't be many younger. um So i certainly hope it goes a lot better than last year.
00:23:38
Speaker
yeah Yeah, I think that what what what it sounds like you're doing and not skipping the steps along the way either is yeah it it definitely pays off. And I feel like if I was your age now and your ability at your age, like there's a tidal wave of momentum building behind trail running.
00:23:56
Speaker
And I feel like someone that's sort of under 25 is going to really feel momentum. the most in the next sort of across the next five to 10 years. I think that's really where it's going to start playing out. So it's a, it's a fun time to have ah a long-term view about the sport could look very different for a lot of Aussies and worldwide in five to 10 years. Yeah. in a good way, probably. Hopefully.
00:24:19
Speaker
Yeah. I'm just excited to race everywhere and, you know, just get to explore while racing and just have fun really. I mean, that's always my goal because what's the point of doing if you're having fun? So Definitely. Is there anything that's like big goals, races you want to do worldwide or in Australia on the bucket list?
00:24:41
Speaker
ah I wouldn't say anything in particular, but you know, like eventually I'll, I want to go and do, you know, all sorts of races, you know, maybe one day Western States, UTMB, all that stuff. and But yeah, that's in the future. so it'll just focus on doing some fun races now and yeah, just keep building and then I'll get there.
00:25:03
Speaker
Amazing. Amazing. Yes. And you're right. Like the best part of doing trail racing, especially like in Oz and around the world, is that we get to travel to some of the most beautiful places and just play in them. Like it is amazing. an incredible sport in that way to be a part of because yeah, unlike sort of the road or the track, it's you go and into a city and all all roads are quite similar, all tracks are quite similar. But for us, it's it's literally ah a method of exploration is what we do. um
00:25:34
Speaker
So yeah, I look forward to seeing, to you seeing a lot more of the world um and the trails it has to offer. But Oz has so many good events first. So I'm glad you are don't have any major goals. I suppose you're not letting the major goals in future sort of stop you from just exploring Oz as much as possible first because, yeah, that's definitely worthwhile and cool. Awesome.
00:25:57
Speaker
Well, Ben's going to stick around for the rest of the episode. So he's going to get to answer a bunch of the questions that we have coming our way. A quick break in the show to share the key features of the new ASICS Tribuco 14 that make this the perfect shoe for your next trail race.
00:26:10
Speaker
When we look for a shoe to move fast and across all trains, we want responsive energy, protection from the train, and enough room not to destroy our toenails. The ASICS Tribuco 14 delivers all this and more.
00:26:21
Speaker
Underfoot, you've got 34 mil of the Flight Foam Blast Max Cushioning, and an 8 mil drop that delivers cloud-like softness and impact and responsive energy that's a long-lasting comfort paired with the tried and tested ASICS grip technology and a rock protection plate to provide reliable traction and guard against rocks and roots on the trails. Adding to that, the redesigned Trail Fit upper that supports your foot while allowing more room in the forefoot comfort so you can tackle any terrain with confidence and precision.
00:26:47
Speaker
If you want to check it out, head to asics.com.au and we'll go deeper with a full of review on Tribuco 14 in next week's episode. James, I'd love to quickly hear from you on how you're going, how's life tracking, training, body, things. Yeah, going well. I feel like it gets to the point of the podcast normally that I forget that we actually do our own updates and kind of get so lost in and and in the guests. Yeah, if it feels a bit...
00:27:13
Speaker
I feel like for me, these these little check-ins on the podcast are ah like one of, like for me, I'm like, oh, I haven't actually spoken to you in person in a little while. So I want the check-in. I don't know if everyone listening does, but hopefully they all yeah love you as much as I do. Let's go. And if you don't, just press the skip button a few times you'll be fine. um I'm i'm going yeah going really well actually. Training wise, it's at that kind of point where i'm I'm so close to trusting my body again, but there's still a little bit of doubt. So and any little twinge on my leg, I don't like overreact to, but it's very hard to shut the brain off and go, no it's okay. It's just... you haven't run on trails in a year. And so your body is just genuinely deconditioned to this stuff and there's going to be twinges and it's fine.
00:28:03
Speaker
um Last week we brought in the first session again, which everything at the moment is going to be more threshold focus, just purely from an impact perspective. um And that was...
00:28:16
Speaker
Not bad is the polite way of putting that. I was expecting it to feel absolutely atrocious and was fully preparing myself for the paces just to be a long way off where I was. um It was only a small session. It was a monofaholic.
00:28:34
Speaker
But... It was, yeah, it was a lot closer to where I left off than I expected. I think the the second it got longer and the way that Luke had it programmed for me was that the 90s and the 60s had easy recovery, but because we can't go faster than threshold,
00:28:50
Speaker
the 30s and the 15s had float recovery um so there like there was a small pickup in pace but like the i guess response is still very much threshold but the float recovery got me so it's just that that aerobic system is is a lot weaker than you i used to be i used to love float recoveries like i'd find it super easy to do reps at 5k pace and float just slower than threshold and be able to hold that for quite long time i just seemed to really enjoy enjoy those sort of alternation style sessions and um But yeah, so so that that was that was comforting. ah But then on Friday, ran with Shiv on the trails and we were going uphill and she was to do like a ah steady effort up the climbs and I nearly got my ass dropped very quickly. So there's some some elements that I am very much, yeah it's going to be yeah it's going to be as slow build back. I feel like anything sort of runnable, I'm okay.
00:29:45
Speaker
um And I can hike okay because I've been hiking on Sundays to get to sort of just to start getting the body used to some more vert. But anything in that 8% to 20% gradient is feels like I'm hitting a brick wall at the moment. Yeah.
00:30:00
Speaker
But yeah, it's i know it's good fun. it It's just nice to be back out there. running five days a week. The long run this week, I think, is going to be i yeah it' be about an hour 40 or so because we're going to be in Hobart for KMR.
00:30:15
Speaker
And I've got a route planned that's about 800 meters of elevation as well. So it's sort of things are things are starting to get there, which is nice after a long time.
00:30:27
Speaker
Love that. Love, love, love that. And I resonate so much with some of what you're saying there where it's like the runnable stuff is fine. Just don't put a hill in my way.
00:30:38
Speaker
yeah Yeah. ah like Yeah. it's A body like going into a high heart rate just feels so foreign. And it's also it's it's it's really interesting because all of what you classically call like your zones everything feels skewed compared to what i'm used to so i've taken like i don't have pace my watch i have my heart rate and my time but even my heart rate i pretty much ignore because it just feels wrong to the effort that i'm putting out um and it does like this morning's run it was the first time where after the run i looked and like the heart rate was close to what my old easy runs used to be not 20 beats higher i think conditions definitely help but It's just, it's a weird process coming back from an injury, especially it's such a long-term one, because everything is just understanding what the effort actually means is all gone. like the the run last week, I was going like, I think this is a moderate effort. I feel like this is roughly threshold, but I actually almost can't remember it because I haven't done a workout in 13 months.
00:31:32
Speaker
So it's, yeah, it's, it's, it's an odd sensation, but it's, it's cool to going down to KMR. And instead of just coaching and spectating, I can actually go for a run in these cool places that I'm going to all the time. So it is definitely, it's good progress.
00:31:51
Speaker
Good, good, good. Love that. You're back, getting back. And the biggest thing for me, I think, is just the whole when you travel to races and stuff, you can actually run at the races. Yeah. No, it's like we go to some of the most, as you're saying, Ben, like some of the most beautiful spots that are just really fun to go and play in the mountains. Yeah.
00:32:12
Speaker
Not that I've, I guess it's sort of adjacent to the being there as a coach, but it would, it's always nice to be able to also go and explore, even if it's just going to do a bit of the course, like um we'll get to Hobart on Thursday and on Friday I'll go and run about 15K of the 25K course so that I can say Shiv who's doing it and another athlete, a coach who's doing it, um like this is what this bit is like, this is what the conditions are at the moment. And it's nice to kind of have that familiarity.
00:32:42
Speaker
So, and also she was going. Oh, sorry. was just going to ask Ben, have you run Hobart around Kununye, Ben? No, it's definitely a ah place that I want to go run. Um, like it just seems so sick as, as many places do. Um, but yeah, all of Tasmania is just like definitely somewhere I want to go run. Yeah.
00:33:03
Speaker
Definitely. there's There's a lot of events down there. Yes. You should come to Diverge in May, Ben. Um, Or soon, maybe. Do it. Look it up. You'll love it.
00:33:15
Speaker
You'll love it. um Awesome. For my update, I actually think most of my update is going to be actually podcast update first is that we have – um Had so many people sign up for Patreon. Thank you so much to everyone that has so far. um And as part of that, we have a dedicated listener question line through Patreon now or a listener question post, etc. And because we've got so many good questions already, we're actually adding on to the end of every episode. a Patreon-only portion.
00:33:49
Speaker
So at the end of this episode, we're going to answer a few of those questions. um Behind the paywall will be a bit more of my update because I'll be a bit more honest about where I am and why um But that will all come at the end of this episode for all our Patreon listeners. um And yet to anyone that hasn't signed up, if you want access, more direct access for listener questions um and early access to shows, ad free shows, um the list is all on Patreon right now um and we'll include the link in the show notes.
00:34:18
Speaker
But yeah, for my update that I can give, um I've no idea what what has happened recently, um but something about this trip on the mountain air seems to have fixed a lot.
00:34:32
Speaker
or either either that or I'm riding a wave of adrenaline that's lasted until this long and when I get home I'm going to crash. um Because um i am currently sleeping and staying at 2,400 meters.
00:34:46
Speaker
So I already thought that was going to be too much of a stress on my body. I'm in beautiful mountains. It is incredible where I am. um And I was really cautious when I first got here. um I'm training with someone that is a lot, lot faster than me, especially currently.
00:35:04
Speaker
um But I still last week managed to put together 63 Ks of running with 2000 meters of vert plus a four hour hike that was 17 K with 1500 of vert plus an hour 40 hard bike ride plus a gym session.
00:35:23
Speaker
And I feel like an athlete again. And I feel like in one week I've gone from I am not fit, i am everything feels horrible to, hey, I actually feel like I can move again. Like one week's difference has just been so much. And I don't know what's happened, but I'll take it I reckon I know the answer. it was the ah the Lilo Derby.
00:35:45
Speaker
that well That's what you needed. Yep, the Lilo Derby fixed me. Oh, dude, when we recorded that show, i was so unwell. That was like me going, I don't know if this was a good idea or not. Like for context, during that one hundredth episode show, guys, I was taking breaks to lie on the floor while listening to everyone else talking to then sit back up and talk again. um Like I was not okay. And then it was only, yeah, 36 hours later I flew overseas. So I was worried. um
00:36:16
Speaker
But, yeah, the mountain air, the altitude air, this is the best I felt at altitude. No idea what the hell's going on. But, like, i did. i did um And, like, I haven't done anything too crazy by any means. The hardest thing I did was probably the bike session and then I've joined in um the runner I'm training with. She had... um Actually a wild session, 45-minute progressive on the track, so 10Ks around the track, like starting at 5-minute Ks, dropping down to 4-minute Ks. Then the session was 20 by 400 off 40-second recovery, and she's doing them in about 77 to metres off 40-second recovery.
00:36:53
Speaker
And all of this is a two thousand four hundred metres off forty second recovery and i looked at it and i went That's wild. But either way, I tagged along for as much as the progressive as I could. But by the time we got down to about four 15s, five or six Ks in, my heart rate was 180. And i was like, I'm tapping out for a lap.
00:37:13
Speaker
Then I jumped back in for another like one and a half K. And again, my heart rate got so high that I'm like, OK, I need a 2K jog before we get into this session. um And then in the session, I did two hundreds while she did 400s. So it was still for me what turned in into a very good session because I turned it into 4x4x200 all in about that 38, 39 seconds. So like moving well enough that the altitude I was feeling by the end of a 200. And I would do a 200, have a longer break um because I'd do the first 200 of the rep. But then my middle two 200s would be the second half and the first half, so only a 40-second break. And that was so hard.
00:37:57
Speaker
Meanwhile, though, I'm watching her do the 400s, and I'm like, I feel weak. um But getting through what was at 16Ks total for the run, like 16 200s in 38-ish seconds, like...
00:38:12
Speaker
I was stoked, especially at 2,400 metres and with a tempo beforehand. um Like it felt like the first time ah it was verging on a complete session for me in seven months.
00:38:28
Speaker
It's an interesting design. I don't know if you've followed any of the Clayton Young or Conor Mance documentaries that come on YouTube, but their coach, Ed Eyestone at BYU, he uses these fatigue mile repeats. And his way of explaining why he does this is just basically he was doing mile repeats and then he wondered one day what would it be like if I put...
00:38:50
Speaker
like i think they do five to eight miles worth of essentially tempo marathon style effort beforehand so put that that pre-fatigue in and and then they go and run them about sort of five k to 8k ish effort but for these guys it's pretty quick like they're doing yeah they're doing the miles in 420 or something like that so it's clearly a style of training out there that is pretty much held for the top level of the sport how did you find your body responded to the having that pre-fatigue in there Um, actually like on the whole, as much as i was struggling to breathe at the end of like I did for the last one, I did about 300, um, the 200s, like I am being careful. They felt other than the ones with the 42nd break, which may be the last hundred of the second 200. I was like, okay, now I feel it.
00:39:37
Speaker
Everything else I was purposely keeping to 200 because I would finish the rep going. Yep. I don't have to stop, but I'm going to stop. Um, so for me, it was actually the, um, progression beforehand felt worse because my, from months ago when my heart rate recovery was just not there, like I do a 200 meter rep and in three minutes, my heart rate might've dropped 10 beats. Like, I don't know what was going on in my body at that point, but this time around, sure. My heart rate in a 200 might get up to 170 because it's so short. It doesn't actually get that high.
00:40:11
Speaker
But even within a minute, I'm back under 130. And so I actually felt quite comfortable time in the session, um especially the two hundred s The 200s for me were easy. It was just by the time I'd done sort of, yeah, 4, 5K of the progression um and me not being used to that not and being at altitude, my heart rate was just going up. um And I was actually surprised because like i could manage to hold 185 heart rate for 2K, which I used to never be able to do. but ah And it was a weird, like you were saying, James, it's a weird feeling. I'm relearning my own physiology, but not even in a normal way. My physiology is different. I don't know what's different, but it's different because I used to hit 180 in like
00:40:59
Speaker
hard all-out reps and be dying. um Whereas it's like i have I have been having to get used to looking down at my watch and seeing 180 to 185 and going, yeah, i can I can hold this. This is fine. Because even when I did step off the track, I stepped off more because i mentally went my heart rate's too high than physically feeling like I absolutely had to.
00:41:20
Speaker
Like I wasn't – yeah, it wasn't as if I was exhausted. Like obviously I did sixteen two hundred afterwards and I jumped back in within one lap and it was just – mentally I'm a bit scared in a way of going is this a sign I'm doing too much is this just normal for my body now I don't know um but I think I'm trying to take leaf out of your book here Ben and just think about it less and go well I feel okay so I'm gonna keep going and whatever my body gives me like heart rate wise or whatever like that's that's just it for today that's fine um
00:41:55
Speaker
But yeah, because I did like I've done a bunch of other um shorter, sharper sort of stuff and then some longer tempo stuff on the bike this week and my heart rate response is getting a lot more normal.
00:42:06
Speaker
which is really nice. um And even my recovery, i will say, i'm i'm in ah I'm in athlete heaven in the way that we have our morning training and then get back home and food's cooked and ready for us. And it's a like amazing meal. And then we have a nap after afterwards. there's We've got in the house, we've got a cryotherapy thing.
00:42:29
Speaker
um so I've had cryotherapy this week. Like there's a physio every day. um I'm in absolute athlete heaven as it comes to recovery. So that's probably helped quite a bit. um But even then, like I've also been writing uni assignments, getting stuff done for the podcast. So the busiest I've been while also feeling...
00:42:49
Speaker
Like I can keep going and I can keep doing things. So i am pretty pumped. I do have another race this weekend though. So I'm racing 25K on Sunday and that will be the biggest test of sort of whether this week, it's been one week of good training since Donna um and I'll see whether it feels any better or worse. But yes. What's stats on the the race outside of 25K? Like how hilly, what sort of terrain? Yeah.
00:43:18
Speaker
Um, the terrain, I have no idea, like absolutely no idea. The last, I am very scared about the last 5k because this is like 20k and then 5k flat on the road to finish.
00:43:30
Speaker
yes Um, so if I'm going to die anywhere, it'll be on that last 5k flat, um, because five k flat on its own right now, like, because I want to be running it fairly fast. Um,
00:43:45
Speaker
it It just, it's it's not there um and it doesn't feel good. So doing that off the back of a 20K, yeah, unsure. But essentially the first 20K or the whole thing looks like it's got about 1,100 and down.
00:43:57
Speaker
in two separate climbs and descents before then a flat 5k. So I'm kind of scared how like two climbs and descents is going to feel on the legs, but I've also done a lot more climb this week and more quad training, et cetera. So I'll see how it goes and I can, um, yeah, debrief next week or the week after whenever I'm next on the pod for how exactly it goes. But I think for me overarching it's just it's going to be exciting because it's essentially like I haven't announced yet because the brand I'm joining wants to announce with the race. um
00:44:33
Speaker
essentially. So it's like my first time in a new kit with a new team, like, and I'm staying with the team beforehand. I leave actually tomorrow to go join everyone and stuff like that. So it's going to be a big, overwhelming experience without the race. um So the race, I'll just be treating it as a bit of fun. But also if I can be anywhere near the front, it's kind of nice when you've just joined so another team to go, yes, I swear I was a good join. um But we'll see.
00:45:02
Speaker
We will see. That's secondary to enjoying it, definitely. yeah so Awesome. That catches us up on us. um And we otherwise have a pretty cool preview ready to go, which James knows a lot more about than me. However, i am excited to dive in. to who is going to be at the Kunani Mountain Run. Kunani does have the short ah sorry the mountain classic championships this year. um They don't have the vertical though, do they?
00:45:36
Speaker
It's just the classic up-down. And the under 20. Okay. Under 20 and the classic up-down. Okay. So matt how about we start there? um Maybe start with the under 20s of who we've got going. And it's a nine it's a new course, like a 9K course um on the mountain.
00:45:53
Speaker
Yeah, so the 9K for under 20s, there's three guys in this one. There's no no females that have come up in our list for sort of the names that we typically look out for. But obviously being under 20, there could very easily be some some women in here that we don't know. but the main name The main names stand out, the first one, Elijah Gosby. Elijah won the UTA 11 last year, beating Brodie. So well done, Elijah. that's That's very important that you did that. But if you look at his results, like the the the number of UTA 11s, I think he's had first, second, third across the number of years. And given he's under 20, he's again also pretty... Pretty early on. um The other name that we have in there is Robert Shannon. and So Robert was on the world team this year for the obviously in in the youth side of things.
00:46:40
Speaker
um And then the last name that we have in there is a newer one to me. Apparently Brody has picked him out as a local young gun who's been pretty high up there in all of the local Kanani trail series.
00:46:53
Speaker
uh ollie hardy so he will definitely have that local knowledge and understanding there's three three fast guys in that field so it's going to be interesting to see how it how that one plays out um yeah i'm just going to give a a quick like i'm assuming this is all in somewhat of a ranking but the because just because we don't have a huge amount of info but some of the women's names that we do have in here are kirsten hendrix Maria Ami Soralta and Cynthia Palfreyman. They seem to be the top listed ones.
00:47:25
Speaker
Ignore that that list in order. like It's just it' not in order? Brody hasn't put it in order? Okay, fun times. No, no. but Anyway, so that's the under-20s. There's no real significance, obviously, outside of just being the national championships this year. like There's no team that they automatically get into or anything like with the Asian Pacifics. Okay.
00:47:44
Speaker
side of things um because it's a different like different body that looks after these um compared to the long and the short trail. And then moving on to the 14K foothills. So this one yeah definitely is a brand new course for the mountain classic. It sounds like it has a real mix of everything in there. some more technical sections and really roundable sections, some mountain bike trails. um The actual course itself, like it probably has a few more climbs than you typically see in a mountain classic, but the actual stats on it are pretty much what we would expect. I think it's that sort of 600 meter worth of gain range.
00:48:19
Speaker
On the men's side, I've got a decent number of of names in here. So we've we've got local, I guess, I feel like Dave Bailey has won basically everything now, especially in Tassie. We just ah just saw him win the 14K at Warby as well. But from a local experience perspective, Dave Bailey is pretty hard to look past.
00:48:40
Speaker
The other David in the course is David Vernon. So he's just won the Tarawara 21K, bidding out Nath Pierce. Coming down from up north in Queensland and speaking to some of the guys up there, he's been kind of tearing up. If you look at the local Southeast Queensland records. He holds a lot of them. So I think from the pure running perspective, Dave Vernon's probably coming in with the best wheels, but also has been able to transfer them across to the trails really well.
00:49:09
Speaker
You've got Hector Gilvery, who he came sixth, pretty sure sixth at Warby um in a like did this year. So historically fast times, he was second to Ian author ah at Buller Skyrun.
00:49:23
Speaker
It's still a bit of an unknown to me. but We haven't seen his name crop too many times. He has a couple of local Victorian results as well. But I think that the time that he ran at Warby suggests that he could definitely feature in this. Again, the actual underfoot experience between Hector and Dave Vernon and Dave Bailey, like Dave Bailey is going to find anything easy to run on.
00:49:46
Speaker
Dave Vernon is not going to be used this sort of trails, probably neither is Hector. So it could be a case of even if those guys could move a bit faster in general, Dave Bailey is going to have, have the, uh, the up on the terrain. And then the last name for the men's side is Toby Lang.
00:50:00
Speaker
So it's Toby's had a lot of really good, good results recently. Like, ah again, it's, it's one of those, one of those times where it's, it's pretty hard to pick because they're all pretty different athletes, um, coming out at it from different directions. Like,
00:50:14
Speaker
Toby had a third at Warby last year in the Don and Double, um third at GSEL 28 behind Brody. So yeah, he's only had a sixth actually at KMR in the So he has a bit of experience on these trails, but I think the Foothills course is quite different to what the 25K course is like under FOOTS, at least, and also just the way that the elevation profile comes about it. So it's going to be a really interesting battle. And obviously it's always good to see some of the top names coming in for the mountain champs.
00:50:44
Speaker
Yeah, Ben, has ah has the Mountain Champs or the Under 20 Champs ever enticed you at all? Oh, you're muted, I think. Yeah, sorry, I left you on I haven't looked at it. I've just put it up now to look at it, and but it's not something I have looked into in the past. No, yeah, I just like doing long crass, so I haven't looked at it because they're not usually long. Yeah.
00:51:12
Speaker
Fair, fair. you're ah You're still eligible for the under 29K, but you're on the same day pretty much doing the 100K. So um you've definitely shown where your allegiances lie when it comes to distance. um But they're a lot of fun to just have a crack at at some point because you get to move faster than you otherwise would on all the terrain and especially like can teach you a lot about technicalities running and those sorts of things. So...
00:51:38
Speaker
Hopefully at some point they're either local enough or enticing enough to just at least have a crack at because they are a bit of fun. Yeah, they're very, very repeats as well. You can go do the the mountain champs and be pretty much fine the next day or two days later. might not be fine at the end of it. You might be tasting your legs, but you'll b be be pretty quick recovery off that one. On the women's side, it's a bit lighter on, which is is always always a shame when we don't see too much depth um across this. So the main name on there is actually from New Zealand. It's Jessie Speedy. So Jessie was the UTA 22 champion. She represented New Zealand athletes. at the world mountain trail champs last year as well and she'll be facing off against jill lyle who's had two things two top five or moved fifth and sixth in the 25k across 2024 and 2025 so those are two the both the years of the golden trail national champs wearing kunani which definitely brought in like really really deep feels and into that one i'm sorry she was eight eighth and seventh across those two years so Jewell has that local understanding of the course.
00:52:42
Speaker
Jesse's coming in with probably more more of the speed side of things, but again, not not knowing the area, not knowing the terrain. So the battle between those two will be super interesting. Unfortunately, that's the only two names that we've been able to reident identify as probably being up for that that fight. But again, it's the sort of race where people come out of the woodwork, they hit the trails for the first time and just completely surprise us with these mountain champs. I have also heard a rumor that maybe Koenig's will be there for the fourteen k Oh, nice.
00:53:13
Speaker
yeah That'd be fun. That would be a lot of fun. Awesome. Awesome. Great. And then won't go through the as same detail as that one, but we've got the 25, 46 and 66K courses, the 25K men's. He's in both entries. So I don't know if he's planning on doing both. I'm not sure it's actually on the same day. They are on different days. Wouldn't surprise me. They're different days. So it wouldn't surprise me.
00:53:37
Speaker
So you've got David Bailey's again. He's back into it. And then Mark Azalea is in there as well. I'm pretty sure Mark has had some really good results at KMR. I think that's where where we've we've seen him before. The women's side, we've got Eleanor Stevenson coming down for this. She's previously won ah run about hour of 51. I think it was about fourth or fifth place on this course. And this course, Sim, correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure this doesn't change very much year to year. no No, no, it's the same.
00:54:06
Speaker
um Then you have a Amy Lamprecht, who's been in the sport a long time. was going through her UTMB before this, and like she has had some absolutely incredible results. So be cool to see her on here.
00:54:18
Speaker
um Ellie Jackson, who is a local um to me, she won four peaks in 2020. want to say three. Three, yeah. Yeah, is like an absolute rocket uphill. Yeah.
00:54:33
Speaker
hasn't been able to do um crazy amount of running moment and she's actually training for the, and don't really call it. It's like a six day adventure race. It's the world championships in like throughout our winter that ah in Corsica, I'm pretty sure. so That's what she's kind of working towards. A a lot of biking. And yeah, we've we've also got one of the best guys in the country based in Barandu de Rache, where I live. So they've they've teamed up with a few other people. So that's what she's going in. But assuming that she is here to push it and we'll feel good on and and and can feel good on the downhills because she'll she'll fly up. She'll be pretty hard to beat.
00:55:13
Speaker
ah My wife, Siobhan, she is going to be down there as well. And then Meg Sinclair as well is in there. So the women's have a ah few more names than the men's for this one, which is always or interesting to see how it kind of goes back and forth like that.
00:55:25
Speaker
How's she feeling? She's good. Unfortunately, she yeah she she was quite ill ah last weekend, so that kind got in the way of of training. But it's actually she's gunning she's yeah she's he's getting back more and more and having more consistency again. So yeah, and i think we've spoken about it a few times, but she's had a pretty hard couple of years with a hip issue that we couldn't work out what it was. But yeah, she's on the on a good track now which is awesome to see and yeah that's the case with anyone that you have a coach we we really care about is they go and have fun and finish with a smile and push themselves and if that's whatever that is it that that's that's the outcome that you really want um yeah 46k you've got Gillian Turnbull and Megan Brown they're going to be and going off head to head and then Blake Turner Blake be interesting I don't think we've seen anything from him at least not on a bigger stage since Worlds so I'm curious to see where he can come in
00:56:15
Speaker
with into this shape and also he'll be going off against Piotr Babis that'll be so the two great battles I love that and it's kind of Piotr's already done a lot this year but it's also Piotr so yeah you've got to imagine and I think I think he had his course record taken off him last year bens Ben Burgess was telling me I'd have to double check on that one but yeah Blake blake versus Piotr on these trails is going to be super interesting Yeah.
00:56:44
Speaker
Yeah. And lastly, the 66. Yeah, C6. So this one's, I've got two men and two women from from our research kind of going off here. So you are Alex Hunt, who came first at KMR in the C6K back in 2022. Can't really find much else about him apart from that.
00:57:00
Speaker
he's He's Maggie Lennox's partner. And he's one, so he's the one that's won coast to coast in New Zealand. He's an absolute beast. He's won triple tops in amazing times. Like he's a local to the area. He will be,
00:57:14
Speaker
be hard to beat. Alex just, he he if he's there, he's there to win and he knows how to win and sorry he's an absolute beast. so And that's going to be really interesting because then he's facing off against Andrew Gaskell, who's had four top threes in this distance. Andrew's also a local to to Hobart. So it's that's yeah that's going to be a very fun head-to-head. I know that the last time these two faced, Alex did get the better of him back in 2022. I think Andrew came third that year. So it' ah yeah see if Andrew can get it back to to one apiece. And then on the women's side, we have Jazz Velma.
00:57:50
Speaker
so She was kind of most... notably last year fourth at UTA 100 mile um but a stack of really good results like she her training last year was was awesome I think she actually she also was a DNF at um at GPT 100 mile but um yeah really really impressive season for her last year and then she'll be going up against Sarah Jane Miller so SJ which and also personally much more invested in so we're very excited to see how SJ goes on this course You've got a lot of a lot of runners racing this weekend, James. um is there's there's a lot There's a lot going on. There's there's a lot a lot of Buffalo, yeah a few at KMR, and then a bunch of road events going on. So it's a busy weekend. It's good fun. It kind of kes me keeps me very ah and ah on edge, let's put it that way.
00:58:37
Speaker
Nice, nice. It certainly is. it certainly is. Awesome. Well, Ben, do you follow much of the international um trail scene, like the bit the big UTMB races that happen overseas? Like are someone that tunes in and watches or tracks them?
00:58:50
Speaker
ah Yeah, sometimes for the bigger ones um like UTMB and Western States, but it's not like I sit there and watch the whole thing. I tune in maybe every few hours.
00:59:02
Speaker
No, yeah. They're definitely, yeah, watching the whole thing. It's good background noise sometimes that you tune in every now and again. um But over the weekend, I was having a lot of fun tracking Chianti by UTMB, which became a bit more competitive due to Tenerife Blue Trail being cancelled. um So all races at Tenerife Blue Trail were cancelled due to the severe weather warnings um and it being an island. That means they they make the call understandably quite early um because for safety reasons and I've trained quite a bit on Tenerife. It is beautiful but I could not imagine you would want to be anywhere near the summit of Mount Tidey.
00:59:45
Speaker
um on in bad weather so um certainly one of those things where it's just like it's such an unfortunate call to have to make but so understandable um of i think that the calls that he taken out of the event organized his hands it was the the island yeah yeah the ah yeah exactly like the event had no choice um because the island put out all the emergency warnings which shuts down pretty much the island um So there was a bunch of people already there, which I always feel for people that have travelled a long way for these races, but also that's what we sign up for when we do trail races. Like, they don't always go off. So, um yeah, unfortunate. But what it did mean is that Chianti, when...
01:00:27
Speaker
Italy. Have I got that right? I hope I've got that right. um I followed it all weekend. Should know the country. Chianti became more competitive um and was a lot of fun to follow along and got some pretty close results at the front. I am doing this off the top of my head, but I know Courtney DeWalter did eventually get the win in the 120K, but it was close because she was in third at the last aid station um and had to put on the afterburners to catch Yngvild Kaspersen and Rachel Entrican. Yeah, Entrican. I'm going to get that wrong.
01:01:03
Speaker
um And that one, i was having a lot of fun tracking. Yeah. On the men's side in the one hundred and twenty k what was it? Thomas Cardin? cardin Yes, yeah Thomas Cardin, he took out the win. Andreas Reitera second. And Andreas, like Courtney, was the late switch from Tenerife. And then Vincent Gouillard, I kind of feel for Vincent, not that coming third is bad, but he's come third twice each year by less than or equal to about 30 seconds. So last year it was to Killian, who, Killian, like on the last c climb, you could just see Killian kind of ran away from infants and nearly brought them back in. And then this time just behind Andreas. But it was like super, super quick. And it is a shame that this was one of the races that the UTMB decided not to fund the broadcasting of because, and obviously they're not to know that Tenerife, which was one of the the broadcasted events, wasn't going to go ahead. But
01:01:55
Speaker
yeah reading the the i Run Far recap of of the race and how it all played out and the movements back and forth in the women's field. like There was a point where um yeah court Courtney was in third. There's points where they just kept going back and forth. And then in the men's field, how it sort of...
01:02:10
Speaker
broke apart um it would have been we've been a fun one to sit there i'm i'm one of the weird ones that will quite happily sit in front of the tv and watch 10 hours worth of running but like i will but i just need to have some other small thing on the go like even a puzzle yeah need to have something to keep it interesting um but then the only other thing from that event just quickly is for anyone following along because we had her on the podcast um andrea colbin's daughter um who we had last week oh we've lost ben um hopefully he comes back on um on andrea colbin's daughter who we had on last week was there because she was meant to be at tenerife and switched to the marathon i was having so much fun following her because she was right up in the mix um at about halfway i think she was still second maybe and did end up 8th or 9th. I don't have the – I'm just getting up in front of me now. Yeah, she finished up in 8th, 6th, 9th. That's that works. 9th.
01:03:13
Speaker
We've given about 10 numbers there. It had like 6th 9, which obviously is gender, but then it had category 8th, but it's because there was 45 to 49 category lady category lady in in six Yeah, she was ninth female. um It was won by Ida Robsham from Norway, but she was certainly right up in the mix for a long time. It would be certainly interesting to hear um how her race panned out.
01:03:37
Speaker
But lots of cool events. Everything on that weekend was quite close, but we won't go through all of it because I reckon you and me chat for a while on it, James. Well, the only one I will say is that it was good to see Francesco came and took out the marathon, took out a course record. And given that he had the DNF at Black Canyon because of falling and dislocating his shoulder, it was good to see that six or five weeks later, he's back in clearly the shape that he wants to be going forward. So yeah, that was comforting. I feel like, as he would say, it's good to see him so back. Yeah, exactly. I love this.
01:04:16
Speaker
ah Should we bring it back to home and go through a few of our home results before answering a question? Definitely. um So we had back in OZ, Noosa Ultra Trail, which this one was ah really cool to see for a few of the events, but just to go down from the top. In the 100K, it was won in the women's by Eliza Brewer in 10 hours, 45-45. I believe she was fourth overall, um so she was not far off the men's podium there too. Second was Roxanne Chatema-Bessie in 11 hours, 12.54. Third, Michelle Broadfoot, 11 hours, 59. On the men's side, Blaine Burke in 9 hours, 26. And then what, only 15 minutes or so back, Hugo Rocher.
01:04:58
Speaker
And in third place, Philip Fowler. um In the, which one was it? Which one did Beth McKenzie, this one, in the cross country 25K. It was a great field.
01:05:11
Speaker
I know, it had a brilliant field. And love the fact that the overall winner was Beth McKenzie one hour 45.13. So won 25. Completely outright. Second female and also third overall was Zoe Manning in one hour, 49.22.
01:05:31
Speaker
And then fourth overall and third female was Lydia O'Donnell in one hour, 50.28. So we had three females inside the top four overall in this 25K, which, yeah, the girls love this. um On the men's side, Joseph Saunders, he did get the win in the men's in one hour, 45.24. So he was only 10 seconds back off Beth. That would have been a fun little race. um And then Tim Leeming was second male in one hour 50-50, fifth overall, and third male, Adrian Kidd, in one hour 50-53. So only three seconds there between second and third makes for another good sprint finish.
01:06:09
Speaker
um And that was, yeah, in the 25K. They did have a bunch of different um distances there, but yeah I won't go through all of them. it's ah It's good to see in in the preview show for Buffalo, Brody and I were talking about Zoe Manning and just questioning how well she'll be able to have backed up her Tower Era 102 as she goes in to race the marathon at Buffalo. And that was obviously a good sign that she's she's in a good place. And then also we're getting the first first little glimpse of Zoe versus Beth, which is definitely two of the names we've got an eye on for the Buffalo marathon. So it's ah fun fun to see the two of them having a little head-to-head as ah a tune-up with, well, a week to go before Buffalo.
01:06:48
Speaker
Good stuff. Heading across to to Victoria, we had the Run the Rock. I'll just go for the the winners here. In the men's, it was run by one by Andrew Crosley in 1.20.51 and on the women's, Pip Meaney in 1.45.53.
01:07:06
Speaker
Awesome. Send back to you. Yeah, to taking us back up to Sydney for the night half marathon um at St Ives. It was won by Jaden Simpson on the men's side, 139.20, Eli Morris in second and Cameron Nichols in third on the men's.
01:07:24
Speaker
And ah don't not load for me here. On the women's side was won by, oh Polish, Alexandra Stanczak. Hopefully I got that right. um was the winner in 20204, Annabelle Barnhill second and Chloe Brault third.
01:07:43
Speaker
Staying in Sydney, we've got the Manly Dams part of the Sydney Trail Series. The 30K had Anna Pillinger took out the win in 257.50. I haven't seen Anna's name on too many results recently. that That's cool to see.
01:07:56
Speaker
No, that's very cool to see. Anika Wren in second and Jana Robertson in third. And on the men's side, Dave Byrne 2-21-18, narrowly beating out Blake Abbott in 2-22-32 and then Darcy Lund finishing up in third there. And in the 11K for the women's, Tanya Tan took out the win, 63-54 and Hugo Hamlet took out the win for the men's in 57-05.
01:08:21
Speaker
o five Nice, nice. And still in New South Wales, it was a damn busy weekend in New South Wales, Washpool World Heritage Trail Race. um They had the 50K there and this is a damn fast time for a 50K, but Dan Stein got the men's win in three hours, 40 minutes flat and Marie Connor ah winning the women's in five hours, 13. And then in the 25K, Lee Doman won the women's in two hours, 19 and Caden Elliott, the men's in 137. And lastly, finishing up, there was a lot in New Zealand.
01:08:54
Speaker
Yes, in South Wales. Geez, that would be weird. I would not need to add more to the results sheet when there's this much going on in Australia. ah The Tamworth Trailblazer was on, going through the winners here, 60K.
01:09:08
Speaker
Emma Hewitson took out the women's, Cody Fitzroy took out the men's in the 45K, Nicole Toyer took the women's, Luke Rombie in the men's. 30k Melissa Anderson and then in the men's Douglas lebbo Lebon le um and then in the 15k finishing up Amy Cliff took out the win for the women's and Josh McRae for the men's Nice, nice. And finally, but over to South Australia, thank all our awesome South Australia listeners. ah We have not forgotten you, we promise. um They had the Conquer the Summit, and and that was won on the women's side by Hattie Lanson in an hour 41, and on the men's side by Luke Butler in an hour 26. And it looks like pretty close racing on both sides. So love to see it.
01:09:54
Speaker
Now, finally, we're back to some questions, which I'm actually going to quickly chuck a random one in here that I just read on my Instagram, which is actually for you, Ben. um And we've had a question through of someone asking, I'll get his name in a second, but ah what is your favourite trail to train on in Canberra and specifically when you're looking for vert?
01:10:16
Speaker
ah Yeah, well, the main trail that I do, I just do loops on it up and down, just on Black Mountain. and And generally, the trails there are the best that know. They're close by and it's got a mix of like fire trail, single track.
01:10:33
Speaker
ah Got some really steep climbs up the backside of it. and Yeah, I just run up and down it in loops for, you know, an hour or two hours every day and I don't get sick of it. I love running there.
01:10:45
Speaker
Nice. I love that. You're spoilt for choice in Canberra too. Yeah. I don't have to go far. and But ah like there's some great tracks like 40 minutes out um in the Brindabellas, I wouldn't imagine.
01:10:59
Speaker
Just yeah really good trails everywhere. I'm happy to run any of them, really. Amazing. Amazing. And that came from Wojtek Zuchowski.
01:11:10
Speaker
who I think I actually did see his name on our list for, um, on the list for Kunani this weekend. So good luck this weekend, Wojtek, um, in, I think even in the under, in the under 29K.
01:11:22
Speaker
Um, so that, thank you for that question. Um, and then for our listener question, this that has come in from Heidi, um, which you can actually chip in quite a bit here, Ben, since you've got a bit of experience. If anything, you've got more experience probably than both me and James when it comes to this exact question.
01:11:44
Speaker
um And she's asked, how do you plan for the logistical side of 80 kilometre plus events, such as what you might need at each aid station? And particularly she's asking if you're using drop bags, which are only available at certain spots.
01:11:59
Speaker
um For a bit more context that I can give you here on her question, Ben, she said, ideally, you'd know your splits, but running on a new course, estimates could be wrong. And she's wanting to know about the gear that you don't need to run with on your person, but may find beneficial, such as poles, extra warm layer, um and those sorts of things. And she's saying, yeah, she does have crew, but um they're not always going to be there. So, she's relying on drop bags and looking for advice on how to plan those drop bags and what she might need. So anything you can give her? Yeah, I've used drop bags occasionally. um Usually i have a crew. But um I'll just say with drop bags, it's always having more than you think you need. So then you have the option to take it, say you need it, say you think you're going to need an extra gel or whatever, and just always having the option to pick up more.
01:12:50
Speaker
um But otherwise, as for like with crew, I mean, just looking at your training to, I guess, estimate how fast you're going to take on a section and then probably dial in it a lot further back than you would think for the back half of the longer races, especially. Yeah.
01:13:08
Speaker
but yeah, just have not sort of having more gear in the drop bags available if you need it. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. When it when it comes to this for me, i am definitely over-preparer, but if anything, i'm I look drop bags and crew as like almost ideally I don't need them, but if I need them, I probably really need them. So i want everything accessible. So the way i always look at it is no matter whether I've got crew, i will still have drop bags because you cannot rely on your crew to always get there. I have seen the wildest things go wrong on race day when it comes to crew getting from one stop to another. So i will always have a drop bag at every possible drop bag spot. um And depending on how far apart those are, like if it's only two in a
01:14:00
Speaker
100k or so like I'll ah ah good those will be quite hefty um if there's a lot more you can usually rely on a little bit less because you know the next drop bag isn't too far away even if your crew's not there but the things that have always saved me and I have in every drop bag which might sound excessive but I will always have spare socks two pairs a pair of shoes I will always have pretty much enough nutrition to get me through the entire race in every drop bag which is definitely excessive But by by enough nutrition, I mean as many different options as possible. Like everything that you can imagine is at an aid station. I will actually put in my drop bag um because I'd prefer to go for my own stuff than aid station stuff.
01:14:45
Speaker
Part of that is me being celiac. I'm not about to trust anything that's communal. But I will have just sandwiches, gels, chips, potatoes, like anything that I possibly am going to want to eat, electrolytes, Even all of my water bottles I will have full in a drop bag, um if provided I have enough like of the actual bottles.
01:15:06
Speaker
um But I look at it as every single drop bag is my aid station and it's everything I need is in that drop bag. And the reason I do that is because, yes, most people might give that to their crew, but I would rather my crew get to the aid station, pick up my drop bag and it's there.
01:15:23
Speaker
rather than my crew is the one bringing all of this gear because i to be fair, racers sometimes do also miss drop bags, et cetera, but I think it's a more reliable system than your crew bringing everything. Now, obviously my crew will still then also have spares of almost everything. um The last 100K I did, I changed and I'd never had foot problems before. And I was very glad that I'm an over-preparer because I changed shoes three times in the 100K trying to find the right pair And that was some in drop bags, some with my parents as their crew. So that's just one example. But for me also, I'll be planning. Like sometimes it's a planned shoe change or clothing change. If there's river crossings, if it's after a nighttime, if it's been raining, I want access to dry warm clothes. I want access to blister kits. I'll have a blister kit and a first aid kit in every single drop bag.
01:16:18
Speaker
And the way, as I said, the way I look at it is ideally I never need any of this, but if I need it, it is right there. It is ready to go. And I know that I have it. Um, and it's not even reliant on my crew getting it to me.
01:16:31
Speaker
Um, There are certain items, I know she mentioned Heidi mentioned poles, you might only have one pair of poles, you might not know where you want it and that might be the sort of thing that if the race allows you picking them up, dropping them off, that probably is the sort of thing I'm leaving with my crew because no matter what, I'm surviving the race without them.
01:16:50
Speaker
They're not going to be race critical at any point. So any single thing that could be race critical goes in a drop bag or on my person. Anything that is a nice to have but I'm definitely going to survive without it goes in the crew car with my crew.
01:17:06
Speaker
um And that way I want to be able to stand on a start line of one of these long events knowing that I am not relying on a single other human to actually get me from start to end. I can be self-reliant.
01:17:18
Speaker
The ah fact I have other humans there that are going to fill up my water and put them in my pack or help me get changed or anything along those lines. Absolute bonus. Love that. Seeing your kids, seeing your, because I know Heidi's saying her husband and three kids are the ones crewing. Amazing. It's a bonus every time you get to see them. But it's so much more enjoyable for me to be running along knowing that something goes wrong with one of the kids or there's a tree down on the road stopping people getting to the aid station, et cetera, et cetera. I'm still fine.
01:17:48
Speaker
I can still, put my training to use and run the race and finish the race. um And then the only one thing I'll add there is that when it comes to timings for checkpoints, thankfully it's mostly my parents that crew me and they are very happy to do this, but I'm a bit of a taskmaster when it comes to every almost, I'd say 90% of the times I've seen crews miss aid stations, it's because they have a pit stop themselves in between aid stations. They go for a coffee, they go for breakfast, things take longer.
01:18:18
Speaker
etc. So my blanket rule for anyone crewing me is they are have everything in the car at the start of the day that they need for the whole day and they go from aid station to aid station and they make friends. I essentially say pack a card game, pack pack a board game. I don't mind what you pack to get you through the couple of hours that you're probably waiting. Sometimes it might be many hours.
01:18:41
Speaker
That's fine. If you're crewing me, thank you. Please just go straight there. Um, so they know not to stop for any reason. Like the car is full with petrol. They have their coffee sorted. They have everything in the car the night before. um And for me, that's just been, again, that whole, if anything, make trying to make it less stressful for them because then it's the day before and I'm helping them pack all their snacks, pack all the things to entertain them.
01:19:06
Speaker
All of these things I can actually help my crew do um so that I know they're set up as well as I'm set up, if that makes sense. And that was a lot. So, James, feel free to pick it apart.
01:19:17
Speaker
No, I think everything said there is is really important. It's, um yeah, the... the the
01:19:24
Speaker
Relying on your crew is brilliant and having a crew can make such a difference. But as you said, him so much can go wrong between A and B. And if you're stuck without any food or without your warm kit that you were planning on taking or whatever it is, it's you can probably get to the finish fine but it's what that does to your mindset in that moment and how you can respond to that and each person is going to react in a very different way to that situation so i think having that back up sometimes races let your crew pick up your drop bags you don't necessarily have to have like double ups that crew could come there a station pick up your drop bag and get you ready just use that and sometimes they don't let you do that you do need you do need a lot of stuff um but now i think that do there are races that don't let you do that
01:20:04
Speaker
some some way to feel not not like the actual runner with the bib um so okay yeah yeah um i think that i had something in my in my mind as well um but no no no it's uh it's gone it wasn't it obviously wasn't particularly particularly but no on the timing estimates perspective I think, as you said, Ben, you' you you'll have a pretty good idea from your training about how long a section that has this amount of elevation and this distance is going to take. Now, yes, you might not know the underfoot experience. like It could be super technical. um Chances are, like for example, Kanani Mountain Run, was getting SJ's plan ready for her, and they have awesome write-ups about each section. So you know which section is...
01:20:50
Speaker
really technical. Now you can also go on and let's just say this is an ATK that you think is going to take you 14 hours. You can look at the people that have done that and go onto their Stravas and have a look at how long they've taken to do things. So if you feel like that's roughly your ballpark and get an idea and then whatever you think that is,
01:21:05
Speaker
add a buffer zone onto that what that buffer looks like is going to be dependent on on you but let's say you think it's going to take you two hours to go from a to b for that section well i'd probably have three hours worth nutrition on you because you're going to want to have that that extra in your back pocket anyway um some i've seen it sometimes where people have trained And we've dialed in, let's say 70 grams an hour. And that feels like the best for them in their training. And then in the race, they've actually found that they want more, and not less. And so they suddenly start eating 90 grams an hour and they're burning through their, their, their carbs. And I'm like, you can be okay with that. But if you've got that access to the spare, it's never going to be a bad thing. But yeah, otherwise what you said, I think the, the big thing for me is having a ballistic kit in your drop bags, especially for these long races, especially if it's going to be wet or if you've just got even an inkling with your shoes,
01:21:52
Speaker
yep talcum powder yeah say it's my faith yeah if it's wet if it's wet talcum powder and if you're just kind of like dry rubbing sometimes having some like vaseline or some form of of lubricant can be really good um i like to have like a a lighter needle so you can pop blisters the the pre-strapping tape that you put on the kind of really thin white fabricy one that's great for hot spots so if you do feel like you're getting hotspot yeah just stop immediately like when you say station stop put that tape on and go before it becomes a blister that can help massively um but yeah that's i will also say if ah don't pop a blister unless it really needs it you don't want those things infected no so ideally you cover it and put up with it a little bit if unless it's obviously huge um um and so a lot of the time they will pop themselves let's be honest but um you just did a lot less especially on your feet walking through rivers etc you're at a lot less risk of infection if it is still complete even if slightly painful um i'd yeah i'd rather a slightly painful blister for 20 kilometers than three days of infection um personally um but yeah hopefully heidi if you've got any follow-up questions by all means um
01:23:11
Speaker
shoot them through because there was a lot of info right there and hopefully at least a lot of it was relevant to you but um that gives people some insight into yeah how we make it through and I will also last thing I'll say is that an 80k plus race as James said like you want extra stuff on you it is not the race you're trying to run as light as possible if anything I'm trying to make sure I have like I would I want more on me so that if something goes wrong halfway between aid stations I also am fine um I'm not trying to skimp on what is in my pack food-wise, liquid-wise, warmth-wise. Like it's there for a reason and you're not trying to move fast enough that an extra half a kilo, if it's water or like even up to a kilo, two kilos, it's not going to make the biggest difference. um especially not to 95 99 of the masses of anyone doing these events so yeah don't skimp on what you're carrying essentially yeah um especially the the waterfront there i feel like whenever i'm getting people ready for for races one of the temptations is to to try and carry less because it's inconvenient like you carry an extra bottle that's extra 500 grams like it plus the cat plus the weight of the bottle you've got to fit it but the the like
01:24:24
Speaker
I think more so than getting behind on your calories, the worst thing you you can do is get dehydrated, especially if you're a higher a higher sweater. It is just a recipe for disaster. So if you find yourself going back and forth with a should I, shouldn't I carry this when it's water, carry it. Just make it simple. And then you'll hear about the people at the front of the field having like a kid's extra small version of the thermals because it technically fits the thing. Don't do that.
01:24:50
Speaker
Like... ah have have Have the gear that you need to wear because if you break your ankle and you're in an exposed section, you need every single piece of layering that that is that's mandatory so that you can stay in a good state until you can get taken off there. Definitely.
01:25:04
Speaker
Anything to add, Ben, or experiences of not having the right stuff? No, I think yeah're just making sure your your crew um knows what they need and making sure that they're prepared because they can't help you if they can't help themselves. so so yeah yeah Especially if you've got a pacer in your crew.
01:25:24
Speaker
The number of times pacers get dropped because they forget to look after themselves for the whole day whilst they're looking after you. it's Yeah. yeah Yeah, that happens more than people would think. um That is sure. Awesome. Well, thank you for the question, Heidi. And as we said after the show, we've got a few more questions coming up for people. But for what is coming up in the running world, we've already done the Buffalo preview. That's out now for everyone to listen to. And it's going to be a ripper event. Likewise with Kununye Mountain Run. Like it's a big weekend.
01:25:54
Speaker
as you as as I think was the case last year. Also, Exterra Dunsborough over in WA. I'm going to assume that still has some good prize money up for grabs as it did last year, or I hope it does for the WA people.
01:26:06
Speaker
um Perth Trail Summer Series, Stay Puft. Again, i love their races' names. Lithgow Ridgey did Rail Trail Run. ah Oh, my God, not Rail Trail.
01:26:18
Speaker
Lithgow Ridgey Didge trail run. That one was hard in New South Wales, as well as the Great Volcanic Mountain Challenge and Charles Darwin trail run in Northern Territory. We don't often have Northern Territory races to read out here. So that's um exciting for all the Northern Territory trail runners.
01:26:36
Speaker
Now, That's the main show done. And this is the first time we have to get used to saying goodbye and then not being actually ending. we done Thank you, everyone, for listening to episode 102 of the Peak Pursuits podcast. If you're a Patreon, keep listening.
01:26:54
Speaker
Otherwise, we are always accessible via... Instagram, email, would love all your feedback, any questions, et cetera, or requests for interviews. um Ben, thank you for joining us for the episode so far. um And yeah, I hope everyone's gotten, had some fun getting to know Ben Butler as well. Cheers. Thanks for having me. Yeah, it's been great. Great to have you on, Ben. Great to get to know you and ah excited to follow along for the Buffalo, see how see how it it all goes as long as we see that smile across the finish line. It'll be pretty good.
01:27:27
Speaker
Yeah, I'm excited. See how it goes. Awesome. Thanks, everyone. Thank you. Before you go, thanks again to ASICS for supporting the show. if you're looking to feel light, fast and confident on any terrain, Dubuco 14 is the shoe for you.
01:27:42
Speaker
Again, head to ASICS.com.au to find out more.