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The State Of Play For Indie Beer
2 Playsin 7 hours
“It's so great to see that people care, that there is still interest in the movement.”
Fresh off the back of the Australian International Beer Awards and both the federal and Victorian state budgets, we invited the CEO and chair of the Independent Brewers Association (IBA) to join us on the show.
There was plenty to reflect on and project from in the respective budgets, as well as the ongoing conversations around excise that have been capturing headlines and the public’s attention alike, not least off the back of Independent Senator David Pocock’s campaigning.
Those discussions form just part of the episode, with Sabrina and Evin offering insight into the IBA’s key priorities, the real costs to consumers of the various container deposit schemes across the country, the impact of non-payment of bills across the industry, funding to reboot the Tasmanian Ale Trail, and plans to replace the Indies with awards that celebrate the people of the indie beer community.
James sat out the main chat due to his position on the board of the IBA, but joins Will for the intro. As well as looking back on a booming opening half to Pint of Origin, they summarise this week’s features on two of the country’s independent breweries: Mog Brew and the rebirthed Zig Zag Brewery.
If you enjoy the show – or have enjoyed any past episodes – we're really appreciate it if you could like, subscribe, rate, review or tell your beer-loving mates too.
Start of segments:
- 0:00 – The Week On Crafty
- 9:39 – Are You Australia's Biggest Beer Fan?
- 10:46 – Sabrina & Evin Part 1
- 38:49 – 100 Years of Roasting at Joe White Maltings
- 39:57 – Sabrina & Evin Part 2
To find out more about featuring on The Crafty Pint Podcast or otherwise partnering with The Crafty Pint, contact craig@craftypint.com.
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Transcript
Introduction and Festival Overview
00:00:05
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Crafty Pine Podcast. I'm Will. I'm James and we're just past the midpoint of a Pioneer Origin Festival 2026. Will, have you been up to ah anything fun and exciting over the past few days?
00:00:18
Speaker
An absolute highlight was on Saturday, I got to join along on a tour by Drinking History tour. theyre um They run all the time. We asked them to be involved with Pint of Origin this year. We thought it would be cool because we've really focused on the different parts of Melbourne people can explore through the festival to try and encourage that a bit more. Look, i i i studied history at uni. I wrote a thesis on sort of Melbourne political history and I still learned a huge amount at during the course of the tour so i was stoked to be there they're um they're a fun lot as well they sort of felt like the perfect balance of sort of fun history nurse a couple of the tour guides are really into whiskey as well went to whiskey and ailment love beer too so it uh it really worked out everyone had a seemed to have a really great time too any uh standout anecdotes that uh you know about melbourne's drinking history you weren't aware of
00:01:13
Speaker
I'd probably get them all wrong, but it's always good to sort of talk about the six o'clock swill and, you know, how the tiles around pubs ah on the outside are there basically. So they were easy to hose off the after people would walk out and either urinate or throw throw up straight onto the side of pubs.
00:01:32
Speaker
Sounds delightful. Sounds like the king's treat of today.
Media Highlights and Festival Updates
00:01:35
Speaker
um gigs and stuff now always We've had some great, great feedback from a lot of venues. I think, you know, a few have had their biggest days or the biggest weekends ever. a few, um are they apology emails or humble brag sort of messages going out on socials from venues saying that we're so sorry we underestimated how many of you are going to come to our our venue but I know like people were turning up for the the garage project um party at catfish and you know sort of pretty early in the evening and almost all the beers had already gone um and I know Locky at bench form has been trying to sort of you know moderate his his the Japanese beer swilling going on there um and I guess talking of a six o'clock swill we uh also were back on tv on Monday morning we with the help of ah Ben and the crew at Bridge Road Brewers in Brunswick, managed to get a pretty big and lively crew of people, Pint of Origin fans, onto Sunrise.
00:02:26
Speaker
Yeah, that was a lot of fun. realize life It was a first for me to be ah on TV like that. We were across, what, three hours? It felt like a whole day. By by the time we got to 9am, I was sort of, well and truly ready for bed. But yeah, it was a lot of fun. I think it came across really well. We had a lot of different people there, like the Bridge Rose Cycling Club, Run Club. So it really felt like it got to showcase beer in all its forms and sort of craft beer community.
00:02:53
Speaker
Yeah, just, ah you know, once again, I'm highly concerned that ah a lot of the the beers that were brought along to be showcased were ah the more extreme out there beers. some There was one very thick one drop smoothie sour and something from one of the, was it Drecker, one of the American brewers from far Fargo? um But, you know, we talked about pales and lugs as well. But nice it was not nice to get the support. you know, we've had a fair bit of media coverage this time around. yeah, obviously still time to grab your passports if you haven't already. I think we've passed the ah the thousand passport holders this year so far, which is that the first time we've gone past a thousand. So still plenty of prizes to be won, events to get to. There's heaps of amazing tap takeovers and showcases and meet the brewers this weekend. Garage Project are going to do another party because the first one went so well. um And then we're wrapping up with, funnily enough, the wrap party on Sunday. So we did a launch party for the first time this year, yeah a few weeks ago, um and Liz has been pushing for us to wrap party. So some of the Crafty Pint crew will be at Venom on Venom Brewing Taproom in the CBD on Sunday from three till six. um There'll be $10 pints with some beers from around the festival. And we'll be announcing the winners of a whole bunch of the competitions taking place throughout the festival. So jump online at pintoforigin.com. If you want your passport, then add slash passport or just you know click through the menu. um And hopefully we'll see a bunch more of you out around the traps.
Brewery Revivals and New Ventures
00:04:17
Speaker
Yes, and um enough with Pint of Origin, I guess. We are still running a national news website, and i was caught up this week with the team at Zigzag Brewery, who are based sort of on the base of the Blue Mountains in Lithgow, or Lithgow. I'm not sure. I think I'm i'm probably going to get pulled up pretty quickly on that. But I believe it's famous. It's one of those places in the world where they're, there you know, convinced that they might have a panther or ah some kind of big cat or something like that. that ah small towns like to do. But, yeah, the Zigzag Brewing, they started 1888, believe it or not, but the new owners sort of got involved in the last few years. Basically, it's a fascinating story. it kind of reminded me a bit of Bilsons to a degree in Beechworth, how that sort of came to be. But this brewery, they started making beer in the 19th century. They were caught sort of one of the last regional
00:05:14
Speaker
ah New South Wales Brewery standing and then in the 50s they closed but they started making soft drinks and then water and then the sort of more recent owners since the current owners they got it in the 80s and brought back beer and made water as well and they then sold it.
00:05:34
Speaker
It's now taken on new ownership under Kevin and Josh and yeah, they've ah sort of looked to really revive this historic name, historic brewery in a cement, a former cement factory that is now getting a lot of development put in and trying to sort of ah revive an area of Australia that has been losing ah a population, has an aging population because it used to be a big coal mining area and that's now gone. So it's a pretty fascinating yarn about zigzag.
00:06:05
Speaker
Excellent. Now, well I had a chat as well this week to two brothers, Hamish and Tim Heal, the founders of Mog Brew. um If you, as I said in the article, if you've come across them through their recently opened tap room in Altona, which only opened over the the long weekend at the end of January, um you might think they're a new brewery, but they've actually been, i think, put their first beers out in 2019. Mog shorthand for their...
00:06:33
Speaker
It's even a town where they grew up in in regional Victoria. i think it's Moglenemby. I'm hoping I got it right. that They said they've got friends who've known them 30 years who still can't get it right, but I might have a go anyway. um So close to Yaroa, but it's kind of a collection of 20 farms. There's no real sort of centre point. But anyway, they decided to start making beer a few years ago um or initially contract brewing, storing stuff in their dad's shed. um But that yeah, they opened their first brewery venue in a former brew on premise place in Altona. They had actually had sort of the the pouring rights. They'd been pouring at a a a little burger joint in Footscray for a while as
Industry Insights and Challenges
00:07:08
Speaker
well. so they're very much part of that sort of burgeoning west of Melbourne scene so had a good chat to them so we'll include that in the show notes as well um which I guess brings us to the main chat this week and Will you you went solo we were having a chat to catching up with Sabrina CEO of the Independent Brewers Association and Evan Craney the chair we figured I should probably sit out of this one as I'm now a board member of the IBA and you know
00:07:33
Speaker
I guess, you know, excess of caution perhaps. But um yeah, we'd suggested to them. There's been a lot going on, not just, I guess, within the association, but also in the wider wider world that they're involved in. So we thought, you know, straight after the awards was a good time to have a chat. said So Will, what did you what did you glean?
00:07:49
Speaker
Yeah, well, I mean, it's also fresh from the federal budget and relatively fresh from the Victorian budget as well, where there was a sort of somewhat surprise news of a craft beer strategy being developed for Victoria. talked about Tassie as well, that they've got some support there. so and And then just in general, the I guess the regulatory environment that we're operating in, and CDS is... sort of on the one hand it's like you would think it should be the most boring topic in the world because it's about aluminium recycling and bottle recycling but if you want to fire up a brewer at the moment just mention those were those three letters and it's uh such a continual I think pain point of dealing with the the different states and how it operates and also the cost the chance might go up so yeah um There was a lot for us to cover and it was good to catch up with the IBA. I think last time we spoke to them, well it was Sabrina was still working with Kylie, the then CEO. so um'
00:08:49
Speaker
bits changed and there's ah obviously always a lot going on within their world. And that chat with yes Sabrina and Ev is coming up after the break. Next week is going to be our formal episode 100. We've had some sort of side quest podcasts as well. So we've got a great international guest up for for next week. but So look out for that one. um But yeah, for now, i just enjoy the chat with that Will had with Sabrina and Ev. And Will?
00:09:13
Speaker
Well, if you do enjoy it, make sure you let us know. You can contact us directly at podcast at craftypint.com. You can leave feedback however you listen to the podcast, comment, review us. It helps other people discover the show, which is really important. So, yeah, make sure you do that. You've heard me ask you it probably every week for about a year, so please go and do it if you haven't yet.
00:09:35
Speaker
And on with the chat with the IBA. Cheers. Cheers.
Competitions and Opportunities
00:09:41
Speaker
Hi everyone, it's Matt from the Pine of Origin Festival where the world of beer comes to Melbourne. Kia ora, I'm Ryan, I'm the Festival Director of Beervana, the world's weirdest, wildest and greatest beer festival according to Dylan and myself.
00:09:55
Speaker
and We're here on a mission to find Australia's biggest beer fan and we reckon that Pine of Origin is the best place to start. One lucky winner will be crowned Australia's biggest beer fan and win an epic Beervana prize including return flights to Wellington, four nights accommodation, festival passes, brewery experiences, spending money, merch and more for you and a plus one.
00:10:15
Speaker
Plus, everyone who enters will get access to two for one bring and make tickets for Beervana when they go on sale in June. To nominate yourself or a friend as Australia's biggest beer fan, head to beervana.co.nz. Make sure you get down to the Catfish here in Fitzroy from the 15th for Pint of Origin, where you can try a whole bunch of incredible New Zealand beer.
00:10:35
Speaker
That's a bit of a taster before you come to New Zealand for beer vana.
00:10:40
Speaker
Cheers. Beer. Bringing the world closer together.
00:10:47
Speaker
Sabrina and Evan, welcome back to the Crafty Pint podcast. Hey, Will, thanks for having us. Thanks for having us, mate. You've both been on together just separately, but um it was great to catch up with you both last week. do you feel? There was the Abers Bintani Trade Day. They had had a bit of a um catch up with members as well throughout the weekend.
00:11:08
Speaker
What's the vibes like? I think the vibes were really good, Will. um I love the Bintani Trade Day. i know that, you know, when Good Beer Week and the original sort of trade hubs stopped happening, there was sort of a hole to fill in the calendar. And I really appreciate the Vintani crew, um stepping in and putting on that event.
00:11:28
Speaker
I've been for the last several years and this year it felt, i don't know if it was because the weather in Melbourne was amazing, but the vibes were really good and I know Phil Meddings kind of gave a presentation and talked about his experience at CBC and that the vibes there seemed different even though it was sort of a smaller event. And so i really felt that. I had a lot of really positive conversations with members, non-members, um and a lot of tricky conversations, kind of, you know, what what does high unemployment mean for the future of independent beer? But that was sort of, they were all um couched in a sense that we could collectively override it And so the vibes were good. And then we had held an event thanks to Hamish at Rocky Ridge. um And it was super well attended by even folks who hadn't come to the Bintani Trade Day. And
00:12:22
Speaker
You know, e Evan got up and just did a little quick hello. But for me, it really, um you know, we handed out a lot of patches and pins in IBA merch, which we haven't had forever. And I was really excited about And Jono Outred, who works with us, our member engagement officer, you know, we were just like, it's so great to see that people care, that there is still sort of interest in the movement, in the collective action, in the things. So I left those, you know, that day, even before the ABAs, just being like, vibes were good.
00:12:55
Speaker
Yeah. And I think that's, um that followed straight into the Ava's. It's obviously been a tough couple of years for everyone across the industry. And Ava's can sort of be the litmus test, I think of, um of the overall feelings. um It's either a celebration or a commiseration in some ways that the the tone of that room and can be pretty evident when you walk in, but there definitely seemed to be ah a lot more positivity. um There seemed to be a lot more lighthearted sort of feelings going around. I just, you know, the last couple of years, there's been some really hard conversations, I think, in that room and, you
00:13:28
Speaker
it's It's a little bit of an event that seems to be marred by big news items around it, and which tend to be less than positive the the previous few years where, um you know, gratefully we were able to present some really good news the last few months through the IBA that obviously is flowing out through the industry, whether it's um it's specific to your state or or it's national. So and the conversations that was having were...
00:13:50
Speaker
So in direct opposition, I think to the ones i would have been having two years ago with a lot of our members and even our non-members who are seeing, even with all the economic challenges that are still really present, um there is now there's now a a positive shift happening. um There's a feeling of we can get through this, positive changes are happening. We're finally being heard, and I think that was probably the main thing that I took away from all the industry events um last week, both the ARBAs as well as the event that Hamish and the team at Rocky Ridge put on for us. um
00:14:22
Speaker
You know, the the overall sentiment was just, hey, I feel like we're starting to get a seat at the table, um which is really, you know, what the IBA is here for and what we've been fighting for. So to have that perspective being shown um outward from our own group is is really positive.
00:14:37
Speaker
Well, and I mean, the other big bit of news item last week impacting a few more people was the budget. Was there anything in there you felt was relevant for members?
00:14:48
Speaker
Look, I think we should start by saying there was nothing direct um around beer excise, um but we shouldn't be surprised because sort of to Evan's point around the seat at the table, um Come 1 July, you know, in a couple months' time, every brewery in the country is getting an additional $50,000 relief in the excise remission scheme as a direct result of the IBA's lobbying. So, um you know, this is, we don't often take our flowers, you know, we're not great at saying here's what we've achieved. um But when members say things are finally happening, that is the tough grind of making change. That is the tough grind of being heard. And so um if you are a member um and, you know, so many have said, thanks very much, this directly impacts our bottom line. um And for those that aren't members that are receiving the $50,000 remission scheme, we encourage you to think about putting that money back into the organisation that has put that money into the supply chain. We've had lots of feedback from supply chain from supply people in the supply chain saying, like, we know that is direct money people can spend on ingredients, on equipment, on growth. so um that's coming this year, but that was announced last year. So we're not surprised that there wasn't any direct movement on on the um in the federal budget. Thanks to the Council for Small Business Associations, of which the IBA is a member, they've provided a bit of a wrap-up that says from a small business perspective, There are a few upsides. um
00:16:20
Speaker
There's $20,000 instant asset write-off that's become permanent from 1 July, but they're also working on issues that we have advocated for from the beer side, which is like if we have to talk to three layers of government or we have to talk to the federal government, we only want to tell you once. Stop making us give you the same piece of information in eight different forums. So government have committed to moving forward with projects um and things around what's called a tell us once principle.
00:16:47
Speaker
They're looking at harmonization of payroll taxes and licensing arrangements And so all of those things are about reducing the burden on small businesses. And, you know, we argue about that in relation to liquor licensing all the time and all sorts of things. So they are good announcements for small business.
00:17:05
Speaker
As always, the proof will be in the pudding about whether actually any benefits get get delivered. And I know we'll talk about CDS harmonisation a little bit later, but that's the kind of thing. So nothing direct, some good noise. um I think And maybe we'll circle back to this, but it might be worth talking about what does the future of the beer excise relief or taxation reform look like? um Because I certainly think, you know, it's not off the table, um but we have to expend our efforts in the right places.
00:17:36
Speaker
Yeah, um I mean, you know, on that, it feels like the conversation around excise, um despite that early relief, like the conversation around sort of more widespread change has never felt stronger. Like I'm, you know, there's Pocock, obviously, he's a big part of that, but I'm jumping on Instagram and seeing...
00:17:55
Speaker
sort of political influencer accounts talking about it being really announced about it I mean, Punta's politics as well, his focus has always been on um fossil fuels, but, um, we're and gambling um and sort of where our money's going, like, like these conversations seem really red hot at the moment. Right.
00:18:14
Speaker
Yeah, i would say that on that, it it's ahric it's a microcosm of what's happening around us as well as the advocacy work that we're doing. So it's it's two things sort of working in tandem. It's obviously, you know, the um lockstep way that the IBA is working to um fight for a better future for industry and bringing these...
00:18:33
Speaker
issues directly to the forefront and whether that being on a lobbying position with it MPs federally or that's the media relations that was obviously we're working very hard to sort of kick up the knowledge on getting out of consumers. But you pair that with the fact that currently, you know, we're dealing in economic environment where people are being squeezed in ways which really haven't been um for most of us.
00:18:54
Speaker
the we sit in a really nice little spot, I think, in beer just in terms of a messaging perspective, maybe not from a yeah how we're looked after federally, but, you know, it's a really easy thing to go, how much is your beer cost? And when your beer costs more than it ever should, or, you know, it's costing you an hour's wage for some, or not an hour's wage, but close to an hour's wage for a pint, you know, it's getting ridiculous at this point and it's not becoming affordable. And this isn't a product or an everyday product. We know that. and So that has worked somewhat in our favor as consumers are really at the forefront going, I'm feeling this pinch. This is something that's changing my life and the the small little wins that maybe I have and the joys that I get. You couple that with the fact that we're messaging, i think, at a rate which we never have before.
00:19:34
Speaker
It's very directed, um you know, and we've been working really hard for multiple years. Like this isn't just a momentary thing. This isn't something that's caught steam by chance. um This is, you know, overnight success maybe is the way to put it in some ways, but it's taken 20 years to get it that overnight success, right? It's it's been years and years of lobbying and conversations and emails and meetings and phone calls and WhatsApp group chats with MPs and staffers just trying to get messaging across. And it's now starting to hit that position where consumers have had enough, but also the people that can make the change are aware of the problem and have to hear it directly.
00:20:09
Speaker
And I think, Will, you know, let's let's use the David Pocock one as an example, but he's spouting talking points from the Australian Institute. The Australian Institute grabbed on to beer to...
00:20:22
Speaker
their issue is is gas tax, but they didn't link gas tax to anything else. They linked it to beer because beer is in the headlines because Australians care about the cost of beer and it's something that's relatable. And so the Australian Institute have ridden the coattails of the excellent work that we've been doing of keeping beer in the headlines. And so they've jumped onto that and go, shit, Australians actually read news when it's about beer. They don't read news when it's about you know, complicated gas tax structures. And so i think, you know, to your point, there is broader reform that's happening. We're seeing that in, you know, the way politics is playing out with minor parties versus major parties, the way the electorate is voting, the conversation around generational reform. um But I think for alcohol tax reform, um there is certainly you know, and it'll be no surprise to anyone in Victoria, but the headlines around illicit alcohol, um you know, three weeks ago, I did an interview with a radio presenter in Melbourne and she was like, what are you talking about? There's illicit alcohol.
00:21:27
Speaker
And I said to how have you missed this? This is huge. And you go to any of the posts on the issue and the ordinary Australian is like, The taxation framework is making this happen. Which is crazy to think that we're now at a point where the average punter who most likely, let's be fair, isn't ah overly involved in the independent beer scene, so potentially does not have that direct alignment to production costs and all of this. It has now actually gotten so far into the lexicon that old mate who goes down the pub and drinks multinational product, whether that's beer or something else,
00:22:01
Speaker
is aware that the tax is too much and they're willing to to to yell it from their rooftops. And so I think that's super favourable for us in the sense that this is exactly what we've been saying. So the IBA's position has been for a number of years in our federal budget submissions and in all of our submissions that we require total alcohol tax reform, like tweaking on the edges now of like 2% here or we're going to stop um indexation here and we're actually breaking breaking point and we need total alcohol tax reform and so I think the flip side of that is that the health lobbyists are well funded and extremely successful so if anyone would be inclined to actually read the Greens motion of support for the excise freeze it actually talks about alcohol harm and so
00:22:53
Speaker
um we The industry remains under assault by ah advocates who believe that the only viable option for Australia is something akin to, like, alcohol being, you know, prohibition. So it being so excluded from everyday life. But if you look at the comments from ordinary Australians saying,
00:23:18
Speaker
It's simply not the case. and And the data is that Australians are overwhelmingly drinking in moderation. And so we want to be able to go to the pub and afford beer.
00:23:29
Speaker
And so the messaging, as Ev says, we're in the right place for the messaging. um But our members and anyone in the beer industry needs to understand that just because there isn't additional progress, you know, out loud, the fact that we're not going backwards, that it's not going up, that we've bought ourselves two years to fight the good fight is significant in this particular environment. And so we we are obviously going pretty hard on it. We know that um obviously the distilling ah crowd where the illicit alcohol is really far more significant ah are pushing heavily for reform. um And so, you know, the biggest issue now is that government needs to be able to balance their books And so any changes need to generally be ah revenue neutral. And that's really hard to achieve in an environment where, you know, they're trying to get their budget deficit down. So, you know, there's bigger politics at play than us, but we are right um we are a good exemplar of what the Australian public want and what they expect from their governments.
00:24:38
Speaker
from their government So sticking with the government agenda and um reform, Evan, I think maybe a bit of a pet project you've had for a while is harassing the Victorian government. And maybe we finally got there with the the recent, their state government budget announcing a craft beer strategy.
00:24:57
Speaker
Yeah, well I think it was a little less than 12 months ago i was on this podcast saying you can email politicians as much as you like that they work for you um until they put a restraining order on. Grateful that that hasn't happened, but what has happened? Obviously, um ah as a Victorian citizen,
00:25:14
Speaker
Whilst the IBA is ah a national organisation, we do a lot of federal advocacy, um like many of our board members in their our own states, we sort of take a state approach. um And being a Victorian myself, i have had a keen interest in um supporting our statewide industry. So even before I joined the board itself and was just one of the group members for the IBA, was doing a bit of lobbying prior to the last state election um and really sort of getting out the word of of Victoria's position in the market um historically and where it was looking to go, i guess, in in comparison to other states. um
00:25:51
Speaker
As we've already expressed in this podcast, it takes time. um it's It's getting in front of politicians explaining the issues. It's getting the messaging across. What we've been doing more, or what I've been doing more over the past three to six months with an upcoming state election here in Victoria later this year, is just making sure we have those engagement points. And what's been really positive is, um especially from the Labor Party, the buy-in we've had. um We've had some really great communication through different ministers, probably what what would be the most notable is the Premier's office. who have been very responsive ah to our requests and and understanding about our issues. And again, it goes to the messaging over a few years is we're sort of, we're already a little bit down the road. We don't have to explain the problem anymore. We're now at the point of where's the solution. um So grateful that ah the IBA also has a position on the Trinks Alliance of Victoria um on the board. So grateful.
00:26:41
Speaker
Essentially, you know, that's that's put together by the government and Agricultural Victoria to ah benefit and work towards developing the Victorian drinks production producers scene. So through the submission for funding that was put together last year,
00:26:58
Speaker
by our former CEO Kylie, who sat in the space before I took the seat when she finished up. And obviously, along with direct lobbying efforts that we've had, and I'm sure a lot of lobbying efforts that we're not even aware of through our members too, who have definitely gone out and spoken to their MPs,
00:27:13
Speaker
what we've seen is the first of its kind win for Victoria, which is an announcement to a funding, but a dedicated strategy for craft beer and cider that's come out of last week's budget or the week before, sorry, um which is massive. So and we're now at the next stage of obviously developing that and and figuring out what that looks like. But ah to go from ah a point a few years ago where there wasn't a real understanding of the the space, the category within Victoria, especially within the Labor Party, who are very firmly in control currently, and to a point now where,
00:27:43
Speaker
essentially the top dog is is helping dictate a better future for Victorian beer. And fortunately, you know, we'll wait and see, but we're already getting indications that this is just a starting point. um I had comms with the Premier's office last week after we received the news um and it was indicated that there is ah there's more interest in further support going later into the year. So obviously we won't slow down the advocacy and the um the lobbying for that, but,
00:28:09
Speaker
Again, it's it's a great victory for Victoria. I think it's also a really great victory nationally too. and We have had some really great state wins already, whether it we're Queensland or or WA, and with similar strategies being developed. But it's sort of dominoes fall perspective here. One does, the next can, and it shows, sets a precedent. So, yeah, really excited to see what we can do.
00:28:28
Speaker
i was going to say that as well, Evan. You know, we often hear what is the benefit of a national body? The WA craft beer strategy, which is the latest cab off the rank and arguably kind of one of the ones that has been most well ah supported by government, that only existed because of the IBA's direct advocacy and engagement with um members of government in WA. But as a result of working through that process, the IBA itself has a lot of expertise on how to get a state strategy done. Who needs to be in the room? What does good stakeholder engagement look like? So as a national body, we have expertise in how to get that.
00:29:05
Speaker
across the line um because we've now done it in several states. So, um you know, coming back to what is the purpose of a national body and why did they exist at a state level, no strategy is going to say that the IBA needs to deliver on all of the items in the strategy, but our role is to make sure that the strategy exists so that appropriate funding and awareness is allocated to each of the pieces. So, um you know, that's really exciting and maybe it parlays into the next topic, Will, that that we're hoping to shine a light on, which is... um Thanks to the work of um both Kylie again before me and then John Burridge from Yakima Chief on the ground in Tassie, we are finally this week executing deed with State Development Tasmania for the reinvigoration of the Tasmanian Beer Trail.
00:29:56
Speaker
i I managed to go down to Tassie a few weeks ago and speak to a lot of the stakeholders and our members And, you know, this has been years of on the ground work from John. And, um you know, we've been able to get it across the line with government. And so there'll be direct funding given to the IBA to deliver on um a Tasmanian beer trail and socials for all breweries in Tasmania. And again, it's a really solid showing, not just from our members, but also from state government and from the big brewers that they trust in the IBA, in our governance, in our systems to be able to deliver a project like that. And so, um you know, Tassie Brewers, where where I know we kept saying it's coming, it's coming. And it's, you know, it's been a slow, slow grind of, I think John worked on it for sort of four years, um but we're we're
00:30:46
Speaker
almost there the money is almost flowing which means we can finally get started so that's a really exciting thing as well for the brewers in tassie yeah fix up what might be now one of the world's most out-of-date websites as well that we can it is um that is that that website will now transfer to ownership for the iba and so uh we will be able to get that well updated um and you know feature the breweries that should be there and and really drive tourism, um both domestic and international, to our breweries. um And you know things like this allow us to have partnerships with other bodies. So we're already looking at who else can we bring in, which other parties can we bring to the table to contribute and to to expand its reach out. So, for example, um can we bring the CDS scheme TAS Recycle to the party
00:31:39
Speaker
they're trying to get out of home containers, they contribute marketing, we reach the audience that they want. So there's other benefits that once we have something, we can bring more people in the state to coalesce around that project. And so, um,
00:31:53
Speaker
you know, i'm I'm really excited that it's going to deliver some great things for Tassie Brewers. And if anyone can take anything away from just the um the workload of the RBA, I think, you know, from the last probably, what, 30 seconds, what Sabrina's just said is it's not just one thing. it's It starts, you know, whether it's it's it's the Tasmanian Beer Trail, but then it's developing out these relationships as soon as you're at that point. So it's the ongoing work. um You know, it's not directly we're fighting for one thing.
00:32:21
Speaker
single change or or where we're trying to get one thing across the line. it It starts somewhere, it permeates out, it develops its partnerships, but it's also what can we do to leverage across all? um I think that goes directly to the work that Sabrina and her role, are Kylie previously, and anyone that's worked in the executive team for the IBA has really done um over the over its existence is um these things are not singular. and They often extrapolate out into varying forms. And, um you know, I've sat in enough board meetings now for the past four years to understand the acorn can sort of go in a very different direction than the straight up tree. so
00:33:00
Speaker
Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, sort of on that, Evan, you know, like on the Victorian one, like there is an election at the end of the year. I think we put the story out and a lot of people were like, oh, well, there's an election at the end of the year. Of course, they're throwing money around and also Labor's been in power for a very long time. They very well could be a a different, you know, Prime Minister this time next year. Like, is it kind of, you know, too late for something like that? Or is it like, well, Labor have done it, so now we'll...
00:33:29
Speaker
Like, how's it sort of work? I guess, working with different parties. How does politics work, Will? How does politics work, Will? Listen, it's obviously, yeah, from the Victorian side of things and federally, but speaking directly to Victoria, Labor are firmly entrenched in power. We do have election coming up. Yeah.
00:33:47
Speaker
What happens is to be seen. and We can all guess. You know, one thing I'd say is obviously is the IBA is an apolitical organisation and we don't align ourselves to any party. So whilst we are obviously speaking and and um on my behalf, I'm speaking to Labor as the sitting government. um That's a practical measure to get immediate wins or as fast as wins as we can. um It doesn't mean that we aren't speaking with other parties. I'm also working with some Liberal Party members to... put some policy together for this year as well. um So, you know, it's not about sitting on the the side of the fence that might be in power now. It's obviously about building those relationships and spreading that out and and looking at the next generation of political leaders across the whole spectrum. So from Victorian sense, we're obviously not the Labor, we're doing that with the liberal Party. I think, you know, the... um the
00:34:35
Speaker
alignment for what we do and the independent MP movement through the whole of the country is obviously really simple to sort of put together and statewide, you know, that doesn't necessarily ah operate the same way it has federally with the rise of the Teal movement. But um again, we're we're very fortunate, I think, at the cross section that we sit in being apolitical, but also with the messaging we have and we We have a reason to speak in every camp, whether it's, um you know, a Liberal Party that are looking to support small business and in what, you know, their sort of position is, whether it's independents that obviously understand independent business, whether it's the Nats who obviously have an agricultural position there, and whether it's Labor that are looking at market reform. It's there are all of these parts of what we are and what we need and how we speak. And I think the value of what we are as an organisation or an association and the product we make and what our our members do as well is a massive benefit to communities, both within state and federally. And that's the reason, and Sabrina will say this at some point, I'm sure, that and MPs love to get their photos taken at breweries.
00:35:37
Speaker
so So, Will, I think that's a really insightful question because one of the things I always hear is, oh, well, like like I'll give you an example. A member was like, oh, I've got, This MP from the Nationals, he super loves what I've said. And David Pocock said yes to what I said. and i'm like, well, that's great. But the Nationals made a pre-election commitment in 2025 to alcohol all tax reform. And David Pocock is clearly in the camp. And we have pre-election commitments from One Nation, the Greens, et cetera, et cetera. Like we have that all documented and recorded. And I said, but ultimately...
00:36:10
Speaker
the bodies that are more likely to form government and therefore have the power are the Labor Party and and the Liberal Party. Although, like you know, federally, let's put it see yeah these ages let's put a pin been in that. So it's great that we've got the independence there. but But the reason that it's so important for us to speak to everyone is, one, it's just about Any MP, whatever side of politics or candidate needs to be educated about our issues so that when an issue is put in front of them, they have more information to make a decision. So relationships with everyone really matters just so that they've got a baseline understanding.
00:36:49
Speaker
And the second thing is that, you know, sometimes the work that we do focuses on what is achievable because it's about making incremental change. um And sometimes the work that we do focuses on, you know, shifting the Overton window. So moving the policy discussion from a place where there's no alcohol tax reform to now we're in a place where we're talking about alcohol tax reform. Five years ago, we were just brushed off, right? Like the only thing that we could get across the line is remission. There was no acceptance that then we needed to have a conversation. And that has moved substantially. And the IBA's
00:37:26
Speaker
ongoing media approach to say something needs to change here has been key in moving policymakers from having a conversation we didn't want, which is tweaking on the edges, to a real conversation. And so, you know, we play all of these roles in the political discourse. And so, um you know, sometimes our members get really frustrated with us, you know, and even during the last election, like it sounds like you're supporting one or over the other, or it sounds like you're forcing everybody to vote independent. I'm like, We're forcing politicians who may have been in in power for a really long time. South Australia is a great example. Some of our members were like, don't go so hard on Coopers. Like, they're our friends. We like them.
00:38:08
Speaker
ah and and And the response that I provide is, yeah, but government has no incentive to change. That government in labour Labor in South Australia has done delivered no substantial direct investment into Indy Beer. They've supported Pirate Life. They've supported Coopers. And so unless we're saying something new, unless we're pushing them to do better, to do differently, unless we're shifting the discourse, there's actually no incentive to change. And so that's part of all of this work. It's just, it's a slow grind. And then every now and then it just results in in the right outcome, which is here's an investment in a strategy, or yes, you can have the money for a trail, or yes, you know, we won't make CDS 20 cents.
00:38:52
Speaker
Wonderful. Well, seems like the perfect time for break.
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Speaker
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00:39:58
Speaker
Sabrina, at as we left off, mention of CDS. CDS is like one of these problems that I get constant emails from breweries saying, you know, are you still interested in CDS or you know, have you done anything recently on CDS? It's just a constant pain point. I think probably for breweries almost everywhere as well. I mean, what what are some of the conversations you're having as the IBA about it at the moment?
00:40:23
Speaker
this That same conversation. I mean, there isn't, a week where I don't have multiple emails or texts complaining about CDS and complaining about it in the sense that it is a cost of doing business to small brewers. And um most CDS schemes sort of started or commenced the process for for legislation in 2017. So, you know, just when the IBA was getting up and running, And had we been then what we are now, we maybe would have, you know, gotten, you know, further into the politics. But the reality is that the CDS schemes exist now in every state and territory.
00:41:10
Speaker
They are not going away. So all of our members, you know, I got an email saying, I'm just going to opt out. I was like, you can't opt out. It's a legal requirement. you know, i wish you could. People checking as well, like, like they they have very particular ways of knowing.
00:41:27
Speaker
Absolutely. They do. Yep, they do. And so the the systems aren't going away. And so again, you know, in terms of getting seats at the table, trying to influence the system, that's what we've been trying to do as the IBA. I had an interesting conversation recently in which I discovered that the CEO of the New South Wales scheme um basically thinks I'm incredibly annoying and i wear that as a badge of pride. um But the reality is there is little that we can achieve to reverse the cost of goods for our members. But there are some things that we can do. So, you know, harmonisation is about incrementally improving the administrative and regulatory burden on members, which when you're a small business, doesn't sound like much but maybe it means three more social posts or the time to do something better because you're not doing this so um we're working on that the uh heads of epa's environmental protection agencies agreed to harmonization for the national portal that was approved in march i think it went in our comms um you know
00:42:37
Speaker
Arguably, they should have agreed to that two years ago when we first started sitting through hours and hours and hours of meetings on on how does a portal function. um so So that's one space, trying to reduce the admin and regulatory burden. And there are little things in that, right? Like payment terms, extending them to help with working capital for members, you know, just like little things that all sound tiny, but add up to to a better environment. The second thing we've been doing is when the systems come under assault by the waste lobby who fund entities, um and there is a current recycling entity out there called the Boomerang Alliance who, just as the fuel crisis hit, started with their 20 cents makes sense campaign. So, excuse me, the waste lobby wants the
00:43:31
Speaker
10 cents that consumers get to increase to 20 cents. The effect for small brewers is that's a doubling of that cost to their COGS and it is not the only amount that consumers pay. So consumers pay the 10 cents that they get back but for every aluminium can, and we'll take Queensland, it's 12.9 cents so that 2.9 cents goes to running the scheme.
00:43:51
Speaker
But the brewer adds that in at the COGS stage. They sell the container to the retailer so they add margin to the total cost Then there's GST added to the total amount. Then the retailer adds their margin. And then it's finally passed on to the consumer. And so our members have done work that says for the benefit of getting that $2.40 for 24-pack beer, consumers are paying for that benefit.
00:44:19
Speaker
So that messaging there, consumers do not understand that it is Australian small beverage producers and not all beverage producers, mind you, because wine and spirits are, you know, just being brought into the system in some states. But beer has been literally carrying the can of this for a long time, that everybody is paying sizably more for their beer for the benefit of these astronomically complex systems, some of which are better than others. And so I think what is the IBA doing? A, we're advocating for these these reforms around harmonisation, reduced burden. B, we can troubleshoot issues um using our expertise with members, and I've just had a couple of those in the last week.
00:45:05
Speaker
And C, you know, we are going to continue to and we ought to be better educating the public that what they are paying is the $6.40 or the $4.80, not the $2.40. So that when the waste lobby comes knocking, which they are actively doing now, and they are trying to get one state to fall, to say that the contribution needs to be 20 cents, like refund amount, that consumers everywhere, when we say to them, do you understand that that now means that's $12 additional?
00:45:41
Speaker
additional So in any radio i interview I've done, the interview is like, it can't be that. I'm like, that is the net effect of what's being asked for. And so I think, you know, everybody in the industry, us included, has an obligation to communicate to the consumer and give them the information about what they're paying for. So, again, neither of those, back to the sort of the, um you know, how do we do all of our work?
00:46:06
Speaker
Some of that is just protecting the situation not getting worse. So a lot of people like I hate CDS and we're like, it could be worse. And we're just trying for it to not be worse. So i know that's not super helpful, but really like the big politics at play here, you know, indie brewers are a tiny little sliver of that pie. And our job is to make sure that we protect the environment as much as possible. and And huge shout out to Gavin Croft and Christian McGarry from Your Mate's who stood in front of a parliamentary committee and made the case for small beer and explained these issues and what it means for cogs and what it means for brewers in front of a group of politicians. um
00:46:48
Speaker
You know, the IBA, we are all about collective action. It's why we exist. um And so to see them so eloquently explain the direct impact on them and their fellow, you know, brewers in the state um was really, um I felt very proud.
00:47:04
Speaker
And it's not just, you know, it's the $12 that goes on, obviously, if we go to 20 cents, but it needs to be noted that that cost impacts directly to brewers. It goes to consumers. It's doing so in an environment where economically the challenges are evident for ah for consumers to purchase, where you have mass market dominance by multinationals that, you know, whether they can wear the cost or not isn't isn't really of question. They have the market space. So within the package side of of um of independent beer, that's really where we have the most opportunity as independent producers to sell our products just due to the the market space that we're given access to. So you couple with the cost of goods going up, the fact that you've now got a margin of price, consumer consumer's confidence is down.
00:47:53
Speaker
this is one of those challenges. And again, it goes directly to that lobbying effect, whether it be with the IBA or whether it be with our members, because whilst we might be at the best case scenario, 8% of the market, and you know, there was a sitting inquiry into dynamism a couple of years ago, it was roughly 90% admittance between the two big brewers of market ownership.
00:48:11
Speaker
The IBA's data from what we have done shows that ah more than 50% of all employment in the beer category is through independent brewers. So we have the smallest amount of sales, but we have the highest amount of employment.
00:48:24
Speaker
So yes, 20 cents might make sense to someone, but if that's going to cripple an industry, it's not going to be made up. It's not going to it's not gonna do anyone a benefit because all of a sudden those jobs will go away.
00:48:35
Speaker
They'll just go into the waste industry, right? That's what the waste industry want. They want the profits and the jobs to transfer to them without really thinking about do the Australian public want more jobs in the waste industry or do they want to be able to afford their locally made beer? And the answer, like you put that to the market and that like it it's a non-starter, right? It's obviously they want to be able to afford beer from their local.
00:48:58
Speaker
And this is why it's really important, obviously, for us to be doing that lobbying. But as Sabrina's already mentioned, with members going and directly doing it themselves. And Sabrina said collective action. i you know If there's anything that I guess my term in the IBA will be made up from is as power in numbers is the phrase that I will say constantly um because we've seen this effect happen. our Our lobbying effects and our direct work to market, whether that be with MPs or whether that be through media, whether it is,
00:49:26
Speaker
is only bolstered by members getting involved and consumers that are listening to this podcast. They're independent beer consumers, craft beer consumers, whatever sort of designation you want to give yourself. are a loud voice and they're vocal, they care and they understand. It doesn't just need to be us. You know, ah we're not against asking for help. We're not, you know, we're not above that and because we are here for, to improve the vitality, to prove the opportunity to increase the likelihood of this industry growing, um going forward. And, you know this is a our entire board and myself included, we are volunteers to this. So we will be more than happy to take anyone else's volunteer time, believe me. um yeah But messaging around CDS, you know, we're obviously, and it's great that um you, Will, and James are giving us the opportunity through this podcast to express this out and hopefully get a bit more awareness on that. But it doesn't stop there. Like we can't stop short. We need to then implore, and this is me doing so, anyone listening to this, whether you're a member or a consumer,
00:50:24
Speaker
advocate, advocate directly in the opportunities you have. If that is state, if that is federal, if you have any opportunity to make that noise be heard and also just speak the truth to people about it as well. No one is gonna say they're they're against recycling. No one doesn't want better sustainability measures here, but sustainability has to work in tandem with sustainable market as well, because at the end of it, if we aren't sustainable,
00:50:45
Speaker
then these these programs and all the sustainability sustainability features that are really being pushed through our independent members, they're going to fall over anyway because the business will fall over. So they have to work in tandem. And that that hasn't necessarily been taken into consideration from what we can see with a lot of these state bodies that have implemented the CDS games.
00:51:03
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like CDS is such a complicated one because you're battling against like community groups and kind of football and netball clubs that are like, oh, but, you know, we're raising money through this way, ignoring the fact that, well, but if you buy beer or even if you buy a soft drink, you're potentially, you're paying more than that than you used to be on it. You're paying a tax. And I can say. It doesn't feel like a tax because you get some of it back, not even all of it. You get a fair chunk of it back. That's the point, Will. You know, I often make that point, which is these were established in all states to be a producer responsibility scheme.
00:51:40
Speaker
But other than in um Victoria, potentially WA, certainly in Queensland, I keep saying you call it a producer responsibility scheme, but we have no ability to influence, to take responsibility. It is just an imposed cost. And so let's just be real with the public that it's a tax, that brewers are being taxed. And nobody wants me to use that language. And I keep saying, well, then show me how it's different. Show me how it's different to a tax. And so those community groups as well, and I mean, we're going to come to another issue that it potentially affects community sporting groups as well. But
00:52:22
Speaker
A lot of community sporting groups, not even like, you know, A-level sports, take receive sponsorship and support from small brewers. um And usually that's, you know, it it might be a keg for an end-of-year event, it might be supporting somebody's, you know, whatever it is. um and And as the ability for brewers to make any profit whatsoever dries up, that sponsorship goes away. But to your point, Will, do those clubs really understand that they are paying the $6.40 or the whatever, you know, be it on water, non-alcohol, that they are paying so much more for that privilege? And they don't understand because it was sold very well. And ought as we should say, I'm not against those groups getting it, but I think that we often treat the Australian public and the ordinary punter like they're not smart enough to get it And I think that what we're seeing, you know, circling all the way back to the way we started at the top, that when the Australian public have the information and they and we're transparent about what it's actually costing and where the money's actually going, they know something doesn't sound right.
00:53:35
Speaker
And so we do have the power to, like, keep that conversation going because it cannot be right that in the effort to... address litter, which is where all these programs stopped from, we are going to hollow out entire small beverage industries.
00:53:54
Speaker
That cannot be the outcome that the average australian the ordinary Australian wants. And so I just think we need to be really clear in our communication and we should be telling the clubs that we sponsor, hey, do you know what this means for us?
00:54:10
Speaker
Like let's make the information available. um And so, but you know, that's my It's my two cents on it. It's pretty frustrating, Will. Like we spend an extraordinary amount of time on CDS issues in every state,
00:54:22
Speaker
um which which is, again, back to the national perspective, it's both helpful and frustrating because you can see the same issues playing out in every state. It means that we're in a position to more easily address them because we know about what they are. But it's um this is one where we are constantly beating back the situation getting worse.
00:54:44
Speaker
right Well, I mean, sticking with the sort of um locally focused nature of the IBA, when we caught out at the High Country Op early in the year, Sabrina, you were talking a lot about the regional cluster leads and sort of trying to, I guess, I don't know, maybe devolve some of that power, at least attention to to smaller groups. So they could sort of, I guess, potentially come to you.
00:55:08
Speaker
with their concerns is that sort of how it's worked or how is it working yeah so so the vision was really um you know we received feedback from some of our state chapter leads you know that they had found you know particularly in the larger states where you've got 150 or 200 breweries that it was just an impossible to us to be a volunteer for all of that and you know you know to to steal evans there's power in numbers um you know when i think about grassroots political organizing which is fundamentally what we are um You know, leadership of the IBA and the way that I see my role is to actually activate our membership because we are more powerful with 600 independent breweries all standing up and saying something than we are with s Sabrina standing on a podium somewhere on her own with no backing. And so part of what we wanted to do was give people that wanted to be more active the opportunity to do that. but in a way that provided some structure so that we weren't missing things that were being talked about on the ground and, you know, that that could come back into the IBA more effectually and in and out. And so when I hired Jono, that was kind of the first project I gave him. I said, we have a vision of doing things differently. Here's the vision. Can you please go and execute on that? And he has. So Jono is six months, actually, I'm six months into the role this month or last month and Jono is six months into the role. And so He has transformed the way we do that. So I think we launched with 30 roles across the country, regional cluster leads.
00:56:43
Speaker
um That has, we had 20 filled immediately. And whenever we go somewhere and have a conversation, there's always somebody else saying, hey, I see that one was vacant. I'd be interested in stepping up.
00:56:54
Speaker
We host a monthly Zoom meetings with by state with each of those groups of volunteers where they tell us what's happening, give us feedback, you know, we ask them about, hey, this is happening in your state. We're thinking about doing X. What do you think? So it's really a direct line of communication. And the goal is that each brewery should only, each volunteer should have like 10 people that they need to call.
00:57:17
Speaker
That's, you can phone 10 people, right? that You can phone 10 people in an afternoon. You can't phone 150 180. I'm really, again, just so enthused that so people i'm really again just so ah grateful and enthused that so many people have put their hand up. So many people do attend those meetings. So many people still want to be part of the IndieBear movement um and are volunteering their time like our board of directors. So um that's kind of, that that was sort of the vision. Jono has really executed on that. So kudos to him for getting that across the line. And thanks to all of our regional cluster leads that are out there, um you know, grinding in their businesses and then giving giving us some valuable feedback.
00:58:01
Speaker
And um I mean, what else is going on in the regulatory space or anything big that's come out of that or or that supersedes it sort of? Yeah, I think I'll just add to, so on the regional cluster leads, it actually came out of our Victorian group. um And so we've launched something in Victoria called Project Fair Pay. And really this came about from a conversation of saying, you know,
00:58:23
Speaker
You're an indie brewer, you go into a pub, it's got mostly tied taps, you win that tap, you think, oh, that's so amazing. I'm such a great salesman. I've just done an amazing job. And then three months later, is still trying to be paid by that one keg. But the next indie brewer comes in behind you, gets that tap and is like, gosh, I'm amazing. And actually, it turns out that that pub just actually never pays the indie brewers.
00:58:45
Speaker
um because they pay out their contracts first. And so we identified that there were indie brewers not being paid both by publicans and by retailers at some sizable levels. And so um we launched that through an email with um Victorian brewers. Jono's been champing at the bit chomping at the bit to follow that up. ah But We've had two breweries kind of fill in the form where we're gathering the information. We've got seven venues or retailers listed. So across two breweries, seven venues, $37,000 outstanding.
00:59:20
Speaker
fees Which is also something, and it's a really, I've obviously talked about this, um, uh, privately before one of the things that we don't have in terms of information that we can share when we are speaking to, to market, uh, issues and, and just, um, the, the, the potential for you know greater problems to sort of arise to our members is what is the you know what's the statewide what's the national debt level essentially from yeah customers you know like anyone who's listening to this and owns a brewery i'm sure has been in the exact same position where they're looking at going i've got a lot of money outstanding you know how do i balance my books on this um and you know fortunately as ah as a as
01:00:02
Speaker
board of volunteers we have some insight into that obviously because we are brewery members um if we extrapolate at our own experiences and you place it on top of the overall industry it's an alarming amount of money um and there isn't necessarily a way for us collectively to to do anything about that that's just it's it's sort of treated as this is the cost of doing business um and maybe during better economic times when people had a little bit more in the bank they were willing to turn a blind eye or or put a little bit more faith behind it. But um again, you know, we we are asked going through some challenging, some challenging times, a challenging period. We need to be at the forefront of that. And the IBA is helping develop this out and and things like this, but it's coming to us through this state state chapter lead, these cluster leads um because they're on the ground, cause because they're able to give us a little bit more of that direct brewery to brewery understanding rather than that overall, here's the industry challenges we're facing.
01:00:55
Speaker
Yeah, and ask for, like, it came out about, like, this is an issue, what could we do? And we kind of collabed around, well, let's collect the data and then, like, let's take step one, collect the data. Step two, we'll decide what to do with it. So I'm really grateful to those, Bruce. So if you're in Victoria, um expect another email about this and we'd love to gather the data because, as Ev said, um once we have the data, we can assess how we can assist um and so which we will be doing. Just sort of a couple of other things, um Will, really quickly.
01:01:25
Speaker
um There's been a review of alcohol advertising federally. Our members will have seen our submissions in that. Again, that's just relevant because they're potentially, look, I won't go into the background around this, but it's sort of um the alcohol industry didn't do anything wrong here, um but it really kicked off by some television entities wanting more alcohol advertising and the industry saying, no, we're happy with the current situation. But as a result, there's now a review of all alcohol advertising ah for television and and beyond. And they're looking at sponsorship of sporting clubs. So the IBR has responded to that. But again, just one for people to keep in the background that this is one where we're fighting off further regulations. So it might not look like there's an achievement, but we're trying to prevent it from getting worse.
01:02:14
Speaker
This is like a real, you know, domino-like stop having massive alcohol companies advertising during the grand final to Bright Brewery can no longer sponsor a local cricket team kind of. potentially that Correct. And so this is, you know, one of the arguments we always make as the brewing industry. We're like, you're regulating companies that make 800 million litres a year, exactly the same way as you're regulating companies that make 100,000 litres a year at at every level. And whilst we understand this is about alcohol harm and that there is, um it you know, needs to be appropriate measures in place, the grand sweeping things that occur just, it sweeps up all of the little stuff, which is not the intention but is always the outcome. So, you know, that's just one for our members to, you will have seen it in our comms, but just, you know, you couple that with the stuff that we talked about that the Greens are doing, the alcohol harm, and you just go, there is a there is a whole network of people that have a lot more money than the IBA does that are trying to make it even more difficult. And so what the IBA is doing is sitting in between it getting worse or not. So if on 1 July you get your excise remission of $50,000 and you think, I want to have a licence to operate for the next five to ten years, you can invest it in the body that's sitting between you and much worse regulation. Last pitch the podcast. um
01:03:45
Speaker
I think, you know, the ongoing fuel war, um different states have addressed this differently in terms of pro ah proactiveness with their comms and so just you know what that might mean in terms of um fuel excise changes over the next six months that's obviously such a sizeable logistics cost for our members so there are a couple of states where where we have the ability to participate and update phone calls and things which we do so just you know as the war quote-unquote continues in um Iran just one that we're watching another structural you know big structural reform that is that we will hear about on the 18th of August is obviously the MicroStar, proposed MicroStar acquisition of Convoy. The ACCC are due to make a decision on the 18th of August. So for now, it's you know um business as usual, but that has the potential, depending on the decision, to have
01:04:37
Speaker
structural implications for our market in particular. um So there's sort of a couple of the little bits and pieces that are sort of just bubbling away in the background that we're keeping our eye on. um ah So, you know, we're we're making sure that our members can continue to do what they need to do and we're doing what we need to do.
01:04:56
Speaker
And I guess to sort of, you know, wrap up, what's what's your sort of hope for the IBA or Indy Beer in the next year, two years before the federal and election maybe? I'll let you go first.
01:05:09
Speaker
Yeah, look, I think – Well, we're the IBA is 10 years old on October 2027 and i feel immensely um proud at what the IBA has achieved but I also feel an immense responsibility to make sure that we continue to be fit for purpose as an organisation, that we evolve with the market and we fundamentally deliver what our members want us to. So, um you know, over the next 6 to 12 months, I don't think a lot changes in the sense that We will continue to do what we have always done, advocate for our members proactively, respond to anything that needs to happen, protect their ability to to um do their business. You know, we're going to continue to deliver resources. But there are a couple of things that I think, um you know, i sat down with the team on Monday after the Abers and was like, right,
01:06:03
Speaker
reset second half of the year and so um we really want to go back to some of that ask for indie consumer comms we know our members really want us to keep as you said Will that the you know the consumer zeitgeist is out there it's it's in our favor people want an independent Australian owned product locally made local to them where they know the people and I think we can um we need to continue to invest in pushing that narrative and supporting our members to do that. So that's one where we're going to kind of recalibrate on the um Ask for Indie Good Beer Week and and really focus on how do we ah get the indie seal and the comments about indie in front of consumers. So that's sort of one focus. And then the second one is one that not sure that we've talked about publicly, um but the board and I have agreed, which is really that... um
01:06:55
Speaker
You know, people keep asking us, is the Indies coming back? And I think when you come off the back of the ABAs and you look at the effort and there's various other competitions that are trying to get off the ground at the moment and there's state-based competitions, the cost and risk for the IBA to run a beer competition right now is just not financially viable for us. But what we think is really missing is um broader reward and recognition for the people in our industry.
01:07:24
Speaker
And I think sort of at the start of this year or towards the back end of last year, I said, you know, bringing the joy back, it doesn't sound like a strategy, but it's kind of my strategy. And I think m reward and recognition for the people and our industry, continuing to build that cultural cohesion within our industry of all of the people that put their hands up, that email their MPs, that participate in this indie beer movement. I think that's something um that would be really well received. And certainly, you know, over the last couple of days of the Indies, various people have said to me, how do I get more involved? You know, i really care about the people in our industry. And so i think you'll see some announcements from us over the next couple of weeks about what does a, you know, Legends of Indie Awards look like? What does what does a People Indies look like? um And how do we pivot to making sure that just because we're not running a beer competition, we lose all of those other things that was so important about
01:08:21
Speaker
um bringing people together in the culture of indies so in terms of sort of other than all the usual stuff you see from us um at a team level they're the two things that we really want to focus on beyond you know beer trail getting stood up and for more money from from anywhere we can get it beyond all of those things they're kind of the two sort of team projects that we've got going on I think yeah you know from my perspective what there there's been a shift and ah you know, ah s Sabrina obviously mentioned, you know bring the joy back has been something um that she's been really wanting us to to pursue. um But I think just in general, you know, and coming back to the start of the conversation around the Abers, we've seen ah there is a, whilst things are hard and I think we've all probably able just got used to things being hard because when we think when weren't things hard is probably the um the question now. um But
01:09:14
Speaker
The overall feeling now is we can get through it. Seemingly, there is positivity in the air. I also think that we're now starting to see the fruits of our labour in a lot of ways as well. And ah our members and even our non-members are seeing that and are expressing that to us. um What I'm really hopeful for is over the next 12 months, we can continue that momentum, that we can show the value of what we're trying to deliver and what we are actually delivering. um You know, it's difficult when you're in the trenches and you just...
01:09:41
Speaker
burning along trying to get at a victory. ah You know, we're at the benefit stage now where victories are starting to come through. So we have something to show. i'm very grateful for our members that, you know, stuck with us to allow us to get to that point because obviously we'd like to turn things around as fast as we can. It's just not the but the way the wheels of ah politics seem to work, especially in a federal position. um So I think, you know, we're coming back to this conversation 12 months. What I'm hoping to see is an even more connected, cohesive, positive, um collaborative,
01:10:10
Speaker
industry and i think you know that's what's always been the bones of independent beer and craft beer and in australia is that's how we are that's who we are i think we you know a lot of us picked this industry because of that nature you know it wasn't just a love for the product it was a love for the people it was a love for their creativity um that gets lost when things that when things are hard and um we've definitely been challenged across the board so to see that that pendulum seems to be swinging the other way um it's really it's really great to see and i'm just i'm I'm really hopeful that we can keep that momentum up and and show our members that this is a ah ride to be or worth being on, that we're on it with you, um and that if you get in the car, we're just going to go further. so
01:10:49
Speaker
and And it would be remiss of us not to say thank you, Will, to you and James for organising the Pine of Origin events. You know, they really... contribute to bringing um lots of people from outside of Melbourne or Victoria together in this Ava's Week um and, you know, bringing some of that joy to you know, when the rooms are packed, you know, that's such a great part of um what we want to do. So, um you know, i think next cab off the rank for us will be Wobba, you know, but getting the industry together over in WA and,
01:11:22
Speaker
ah you know, that's always another stellar event. um And, you know, it just keeps, you know, itll bit we'll be building from Wobber up to Grainstock and, you know, it'll be Christmas season before we know it.
01:11:35
Speaker
Pardon? Sydney Beer Week could be coming through. yes Sydney Beer Week. We've just, yep, that's exciting. And so there's just stuff happening everywhere and, um you know, everybody's efforts contribute to the whole, you know, stronger than the sum of its parts.
01:11:51
Speaker
Wonderful. Great place to finish it. This episode's coming out and there will still be about three more days of Pint of Origin left. So you're listening to this straight away, which I'm sure all of you are. Make sure you get out to the venues if you're in Melbourne or, um I don't know, pay us some money so we can work out how to bring it to other states as well.
01:12:11
Speaker
Sabrina and Ev, thanks so much. Thanks, mate. Thanks, Will. Cheers. Cheers. Hi everyone, it's Matt from the Pine of Origin Festival where the world of beer comes to Melbourne. Kia ora, I'm Ryan, I'm the Festival Director of Beervana, the world's weirdest, wildest and greatest beer festival, according to Dylan and myself.
01:12:30
Speaker
We're here on a mission to find Australia's biggest beer fan and we reckon that Pine of Origin is the best place to start. One lucky winner will be crowned Australia's biggest beer fan and win an epic Beervana prize including return flights to Wellington, four nights accommodation, festival passes, brewery experiences, spending money, merch and more for you and a plus one.
01:12:50
Speaker
Plus, everyone who enters will get access to two for one bring and make tickets for Beervana when they go on sale in June. To nominate yourself or a friend as Australia's biggest beer fan, head to beervana.co.nz. Make sure you get down to the Catfish here in Fitzroy from the 15th for Pint of Origin where you can try a whole bunch of incredible New Zealand beer.
01:13:10
Speaker
That's a bit of a taster before you come to New Zealand for beer vana.
01:13:14
Speaker
Cheers. Beer, bringing the world closer together.
01:13:26
Speaker
The Crafty Pint podcast is produced and edited by Matt Hoffman. You can get all your beer-related news and reviews on the Crafty Pint website, craftypint.com, and can stay up to date on future podcast episodes via our socials.
01:13:40
Speaker
We wouldn't be able to produce the podcast or the website, events or festivals we run without the support of the beer industry, whether that's suppliers, bars breweries or bottle shops. If you'd like to support the show or partner with The Crafty Pine in other ways, please reach out to Craig via the details in the show notes.
01:13:56
Speaker
And if you're a beer lover who'd like to support what we do, you can join our exclusive club for beer lovers, The Crafty Cabal. Visit craftycabal.com for more. And until next time, drink good beer.