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A Pint With Pints And Panels
2 Playsin 4 hours
"People use it to learn English, and I think that's spectacular."
Em Sauter is an American drinks communicator, international beer judge, podcast host and writer who specialises in visual education. To Australian beer fans and those working in beer, she's best known as as the person behind Pints and Panels, an award-winning website focused on "Visual Drinks Education" which launched in 2010.
Em returned to Australia earlier this month to judge at the Australian International Beer Awards – and to enjoy the country's XPAs, Cherry Ripes and coffee culture.
We caught up with her at Carwyn Cellars, where she held a pop-up stall during Pint of Origin, for a chat diving into the history of Pints and Panels. It covers the rise of AI, her experience travelling the world as a beer judge, and Em’s take on the state of beer in the US.
There's a bit to get through in this week's show before we get to the main event too – not least as it's the 100th full episode of The Crafty Pint Podcast.
We look back on the biggest Pint of Origin to date, discuss features on newly-crowned AIBA Champion Nomad Brewers Shack Bay and Goons Brewing, who opened their brewery venue on the Central Coast right at the end of 2026, and revisit one of the topics from Episode 099 that's been attracting a lot of attention on socials: container deposit schemes.
Start of segments:- 0:00 – The Week On Crafty
- 15:56 – Australia's Biggest Beer Fan
- 17:06 – Em Sauter Part 1
- 42:35 – 100 Years of Roasting at Joe White Maltings
- 43:32 – Em Sauter Part 2
To find out more about featuring on The Crafty Pint Podcast or otherwise partnering with The Crafty Pint, contact craig@craftypint.com.
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Transcript
Celebrating 100 Episodes of Crafty Point
00:00:04
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Crafty Point podcast. I'm Will. I'm James and a momentous occasion, Will, episode 100 of our, I guess, formal shows. There's been a few offshoots, but this is, we've we've brought up our ton of official big shows.
00:00:20
Speaker
I thought you were going to say informal shows, which might be shows that never made it to air.
Podcast Evolution and Challenges
00:00:25
Speaker
But yeah, no, well, who do you think we we started with Chris and Gab from Sailor's Grave when they they were just about to open their their new brewery, I think? um Oh, yeah. Well, it would have been at least a couple of years ago now. i lose track of the exact time that we did the first one. But yeah, a couple of years back. Yeah. And yeah, it's been a wonderful adventure. Any big highlights for you, James?
00:00:49
Speaker
Well, I think there's there's been ah plenty over the over the past couple of years. I think what's been ah ah perhaps ah rewarding for me is just seeing how it's evolved. Like, you know, there's some some big changes around the corner. um So keep your eyes peeled for that. But um we still have our occasional technical difficulties. But, you know, pulling things off like recording at the ABA straight after the awards or hitting the road and, you know, recording podcasts in in various places with a suitcase jammed full of stuff.
00:01:19
Speaker
um You know, overseas as well, few shows in New Zealand that we recorded as well. So I think for, you know, we've had a lot of excellent help from Matt Hoffman, our producer. But for a couple of people who'd never done this until a couple of years ago, I think we've learned fairly quickly on the job, especially with a quick turnaround as well.
00:01:37
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. um We used to record early episodes on your SLR camera and I can't believe we did that because it meant we had to stop recording what every 29 minutes and 50 seconds or something like that. Oh yeah, yeah, that's right. I got even forgotten about that. And then we did a whole bunch using phones, even after we got like the, you know, the little cameras we use now. i remember there was that time in... um WA last year where I managed to leave my laptop on a flight down from Broome to Perth.
Gratitude to Producer and Festival Success
00:02:05
Speaker
and We ended up having to use Charlotte Freeston's laptop and make sure she had suitable software and two phones, one of which was, i think, stacked on a a box of feral beers and leaning on another can. um And, you know,
00:02:22
Speaker
Hopefully people didn't pick up too much on it. But um yes, I guess big thanks to Matt for taking our occasionally wonky production and wonky raw copy and turning it into a polished production. Yes. Thank you, Matt. And, um you know, perfect time to be celebrating 100 episodes as well, because we've just wrapped up Pine of Origin, one of our favorite times of the year.
00:02:44
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Number 14 is done. we're We're free of it for a few months. Well, you know, there's the the surveys and stuff like that. We've issued the consumer survey on Monday, so we'll include a link to that in the show notes if you want to give us any feedback on what was good, what was bad. Hopefully not too much in the latter column and anything we can do to improve for next year. That would be great. But um yeah, just from looking you know, very sort of base level, we haven't sort of dug deeper into sort of, you know, site traffic and got the feedback from venues or looked at sort of you know how we performed on socials and marketing campaigns but in terms of number of passport signups that was up um way over 50 percent from last year um and stamps i think were up you know in terms of scans in venues was up about 50 as well um and obviously not everyone that does the festival ah you know actually bothers with the passport some people just go on to one or two venues and you know they're going to complete any crawls or whatever um but that would suggest that it's been a really good turnout i always um
00:03:36
Speaker
get a bit nervous every year as to how it's going to go especially as the you know cost of living cost of living crisis continues with everything that's going on around the world. So it's always kind of rewarding when um you know you go to venues and find they've blown a load of kegs on the first weekend or just you know see lots of happy faces. And I think one of the um nice things I heard last week when I was out bumped into one of the attendees a few times actually over the last weekend, and she'd been chatting to one of the bar owners, i think the night before I first saw her,
00:04:06
Speaker
And they were saying, oh, you know, they're always busy during Pint of Origin. But the thing is, it's never an issue because everyone that does Pint of Origin is always so lovely. So um that's a nice thing to hear as well that, you know, um yes, we're encouraging people to go out and have a drink and visit things. But I think they're always doing it with a very um positive attitude of sort of, you know, community and, you know, celebrating hospitality and meeting new people and everything.
00:04:28
Speaker
Yeah, i mean, it's worlds apart from putting somewhere, people in a paddock or a big shed for four hours and sort of saying, this is how long you've got. You can, you know, you can go to your favorite venues and then leave and come back to them later on in the week if they're too busy and all those kinds of things. It means um it's a real festival you can make make your own and and sort of visit as often or as little as you'd like.
00:04:50
Speaker
Exactly, yeah. And we also, we picked all the prize winners on Sunday. at We had the wrap party at Venom Brewing Tatroom. There's a lot of familiar faces down there and a few new ones as well. I got to meet ah Joey and Natalia who were... um They were the faces of Pint of Origins. Yeah, yeah, well, we had a few different photos we used this year, but that were that they were one of the main ones. It was just such an awesome photo taken at last year's festival at Bench Warmer. And I saw a message pop up from ah Joey Byrne a few weeks ago, or yeah a couple of weeks ago, saying and i was like something about seeing their photo on the posters. are like...
00:05:23
Speaker
they're going to want us to stop using them. But no, they wanted one one for themselves.
New Events and Brewery Expansions
00:05:27
Speaker
And because we'd blown up that photo or that post into AO size ah for the launch party, I was able to take it down on Sunday and present the AO picture to the two of them, which was which was a nice little touch. But um yeah, we've picked all the prize winners. So um if you did it did sign up for a passport um or complete any of the crawls, um then if you haven't checked your emails, then you may well be a winner. So there's there's beers from Stomping Ground, Shore Brewing, Double Vision, Feral Brewing, um Boat Rocker, Bridge Road, Brunswick, cat Bridge Road Brewers, I should say.
00:05:58
Speaker
Also the Keggerator and tap system from Kegland and some vouchers from Proud Mary. So um yeah, check your inbox to see if you won one of those. um And yeah, um time for to focus on things other than, well, we haven't abandoned everything else in the festival, but you know, not to have that impinging on our time for for a while now. So ah yeah, it'd be a good time.
00:06:24
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. Well, um we still have one, we have one new event coming up soon though, uh, that we've just locked in with Molly Rose as well. Yeah, well, that was something that we had originally looked to do during Pint of Origin. So a collab brew night with Proud Mary again and and Molly Rose. And the idea was to get our Crafty Cabal Beer Club members down, come on along on the night, um be there as were ah they create a new beer featuring some coffee. That's taking place on June the 11th. The tickets have just gone off. So the um registration just got on sale for that today. So if you're a Crafty Cabal Beer Club member, look out if you want to come along to that. And if you're not, then jump online at craftycabal.com. There's some sign-up bonuses the minute as well to get tickets for events.
00:07:05
Speaker
So hopefully see a bunch of you there on June the 11th. Yes, well, on with the news of the week. And during the awards night, I think we sort of, I probably almost let this one slip a little bit, but Shaq Bay Brewing, who were champion Nomad Brewing this year, have locked in their home in Inverloch, which is Yeah, I've gotten to know the guys a little bit. InVlox actually near you where I grew up. Feel like doing a lot of focus on South Gippsland stuff going on at the moment. But yeah, Luke and Matt, congratulations to them. They've been brewing basic out of Ocean Reach for a couple of years now. And it's always been sort of part of the plan to lock in a space. But InVlox a small coastal town and has a pretty small industrial area. So they've...
00:07:50
Speaker
You basically, I think they've been waiting for a place, the the right, the most appropriate place to come up in this relatively small industrial part of town so they could um get a brewery in and also have a tap room to welcome people inside.
00:08:04
Speaker
Yeah, and it sounds like they've had a great response when they did a pop-up over summer as well. So best of luck to them getting the new venue up and running. um And I guess talking of new brewery venues, I also had a chat to Tim, one of the guy one of the mates behind Goons Brewing on the Central Coast. They opened their venue just a few months ago. ah really cool looking ah brewup brew pub, tap room venue. um The name Goons, nothing to do with goon bags. I think there is an element of, you know, um them sort of seeing themselves as a bunch of goons just brewing beer and having a good time. But um there is a tie to where they're from. um made a note of this just that they were saying that
00:08:42
Speaker
It's tied to an old business, a cafe that was there. And apparently they had a saying and a bumper sticker calling themselves the goons of Twoon after Twoon Bay where they lived, and which apparently came from a family member explaining how the uncles in the family called each other goon, brother goon, uncle goon, sister goon, et cetera. We'll include a link in the show notes.
00:09:01
Speaker
Yes. and also new on the site this week is we've got an update from felons in Manly who have expanded their sort of footprint once again. That's right. Yeah. So I think it opened a few months ago. So, um, Felons Manly is, I guess, fairly recent addition to the Felons Brewing mini empire. Um, and sort of following, I guess they've now got it set up in a very similar way to Brisbane where up there they started with the venue and the brewery. Then they've since sort of expanded out of the barrel room, sorry, barrel hall, as they call it in Brisbane. Now they've added a barrel room, uh, in, in Manly still on the wharf, ah essentially just taking over pretty much the entire wharf. the
Impact of Recycling Schemes on Brewers
00:09:38
Speaker
Barrel Room is in an abandoned Audi, funnily enough. Now full with barrels, making barrel-aged beer. Obviously, there's a stage in there. They host a lot of rock acts. They've had DJs, both local and international. Just looks very cool um and sort of, you know,
00:09:54
Speaker
yeah become a very, I guess, welcome and enticing addition to the Northern Beaches and beer scene. And before we get to this week's guest, um maybe not surprisingly for people in the industry, but a reel slash TikTok or clip we took out of last week's episode with the IBA on CDS has um really been getting a lot of attention. On TikTok, we're sort of looking at 13,000 views, which is certainly viral for the Crafty Pints meager TikTok following and a lot of interest on Instagram as well. Right, James?
00:10:25
Speaker
Yes, the CDS is the container deposit scheme. There's various different versions around the country. um The industry has been concerned about the cost for some time, not just, you know, the independent brewing industry. um You know, for every 10 cents that someone might get back if they take their can or bottle to a recycling center and the machines are actually working, The cost has always been higher for brewers and it has gone up in most states um in the past sort a year or two as well. And some work done by independent brewers, and which Sabrina refers to in last week's podcast, is that, you know, if the cost is X amount per can,
00:10:59
Speaker
for a brewer to cover their costs of registration, et cetera. um Then there's the markup, there's taxes paid on top of that. Then there's the markup when it goes into retail, et cetera, et cetera. And they figure that if someone does take all 24 cans from a ah you know case of beer and get their 240 back, they reckon the consumer is actually paying $6.40 for that benefit. so um And it also seems to me, you know was it a problem that needed to be fixed. Could the focus have been elsewhere when it comes to sustainability or recycling? I think, you know, beer cans were something that would have always gone into your recycling, whether it's commingled or whether it's separate aluminium and glass. And I just wonder whether it was actually, you know, the the best focus. And, you know, the fact that so much money is being taken away from producers and I,
00:11:47
Speaker
you know s Sabrina says know refers to it as a tax. It would be interesting to see where the issue goes. And I think the reason this reel has sort of hit home is that you know it's actually saying the consumer, no, the cost is on you. like you know There is a cost coming to you. It's not just on on the industry.
00:12:03
Speaker
Yeah. And there's a real challenge as well. I think like there's still often articles and it's sort of framed as a way of like, well, this is a way people can get ahead, you know, like there's, but it's like this person bought a caravan off this money. And i don't really think the numbers ever stack up. I've tried doing it myself for a little bit. I was collecting boxes at home and take them up to a place on, near me. And it's just, it is so much time to to collect them. I came out at home the other night,
00:12:34
Speaker
pitch black at night, middle of winter in Melbourne, it's been raining. There was an older woman going through my recycling to collect cans. And it's like, if this person's needing to do that, to raise a small amount of money, like, you know, it's kind of, i hate how we sort of frame things of like almost care for people in a, in a way of like, well, you here's how people can get ahead. It's like, well, surely as a society, we could probably help these people out a little bit more if if they're struggling to make ends meet or or they can't live a fulfilling society, a fulfilling
Guest Conversations on Industry Issues
00:13:08
Speaker
retirement. Sorry, like I i' just, yeah, it's concerning that the sort of
00:13:13
Speaker
band-aid solution is to put the the onus on i guess individuals but also small businesses rather than maybe say putting it on large businesses that make a large amount of money and and taxing their profits significantly but yeah that's kind of probably getting into where i land on the politics of of how uh society should be run but but that that that That came up in in last week's discussion as well. so But, you know, most Saturday or Sunday nights, we hear the someone going through the the the bins outside the footy club behind where we live as well. So clearly it's a you know it's a a common thing. um But, yeah, it was it's interesting see that that sort of took off and, know, just one of the many, I think, you know, pretty... on-point subjects that you chatted to Sabrina and Evan about last week. um
00:13:58
Speaker
That was last week though, to our 100th main guest, well I guess it'll be 100 plus given we had two guests on some weeks but you know what I mean, which was recorded at Carwin Cellars just before Pint of Origin kicked off, I guess just before Ava's judging kicked off.
00:14:14
Speaker
Yeah, Em Sorter, who was here in Australia to judge. ah She managed to catch up, I think, with a lot of people in Melbourne. She was also speaking at the Bintani Trade Day, and she was up in Sydney as well. I know she did an event at the Inner West Ale Trail, so um I think she managed to meet a lot of people, uh, sell some of her great products, but yeah, M's the person behind pints and panels, which I think a lot of, certainly a lot of people I know in the Australian industry love it. I was speaking to a brewer at the awards. He said she loves, um,
00:14:45
Speaker
you know, using Em's stuff like showing the staff on the bar what Em produces because of the sort of educational, um clean educational way it gets across styles and things like that. And I think that's probably quite clearly why Em has ah found an audience. She has this beautiful ability both to draw but to get across what can be ah opaque and complicated conversation and in a really succinct way.
00:15:14
Speaker
Yeah, no, no, it's a good chat. We sort of go back over her history in beer um and, you know, and in drawing as well. Touch upon AI, um you know, they're her most popular posts her and her favorite posts as well. i Love for her cat. um And yeah, and also she's, I guess, mainly through her work as a beer judge, she's traveled the world as well. So we get her take on what's going on in the States as well as some of her the countries she visited on her beer travels. So that's coming up after the break. um Before then?
00:15:43
Speaker
Well, if you enjoy the conversation or any conversation we have, make sure you like, subscribe, leave us a comment on the feed in which you get the podcast from because it helps other people discover the show.
00:15:54
Speaker
So enjoy it. Cheers. Cheers. Cheers. Hi everyone, it's Matt from the Pine of Origin Festival where the world of beer comes to Melbourne. Kia ora, I'm Ryan, I'm the Festival Director of Beervana, the world's weirdest, wildest and greatest beer festival according to Dylan and myself.
00:16:12
Speaker
We're here on a mission to find Australia's biggest beer fan and we reckon that Pine of Origin is the best place to start. One lucky winner will be crowned Australia's biggest beer fan and win an epic Beervana prize including return flights to Wellington, four nights accommodation, festival passes, brewery experiences, spending money, merch and more for you and a plus one.
00:16:33
Speaker
Plus, everyone who enters will get access to two for one bring and make tickets for Beervana when they go on sale in June. To nominate yourself or a friend as Australia's biggest beer fan, head to beervana.co.nz. Make sure you get down to the catfish here in Fitzroy from the 15th, the pint of origin, where you can try a whole bunch of incredible New Zealand beer.
00:16:53
Speaker
That's a bit of a taster before you come to New Zealand for beer vana.
00:16:57
Speaker
Cheers. Beer. Bringing the world closer together.
00:17:07
Speaker
Em, thanks for joining us on the podcast. Of course. Thank you for having me. Welcome. Welcome to Australia. Do you want to tell us what's what's brought you here? ah Judging. So is it AIBA? How do you guys pronounce it? oh I only ever say ABAS. ABAS, because I've been saying AIBAs and then apparently, but everyone else has been saying, what is it, ABAS? Yeah, ABAS. Yeah, okay, ABAS. All right, then I'm going to say that from now on. So I'm here for the ABAS. But also ABAS, because the last word in in Australian International Beer Awards ABAS. So it's like awardses, by having an S on the end of ABAS. Okay, sure. you know, that's just, I guess, something that word people think about. Anyway, so are you but here for the awards? Not your first time, no? No, no, I judged in 2019. So it's been, I know I got asked to judge in 2020, but we all know how that turned out. And was it something about the awards you wanted to come back for or the country, both? I mean, and everything. it's the cherry ripe. I'm a big cherry ripe fan. And then i like every Australian kind of looks at me and they're like...
00:18:03
Speaker
But I really, Cherry Ripe is, I'm not joking. That's a classic buy. It's a real, we don't have we don't have Cherry Ripe in the States. Can we get a panel on Cherry Ripe at some point as to why it's so good?
00:18:13
Speaker
It's just, it's coconut. I didn't think coconut is. Okay. Like really, I saw, we're at Carwin Cellars here and I saw they have a Cherry Ripe Old Fashioned and I was like, well, we'll ah we'll be ordering that 100%. Yeah, nice. And you're staying here for a bit of an extended trip beyond Ava's as well?
Pints and Panels: From Reviews to Education
00:18:31
Speaker
Yeah, so I'll be judging and then I go to Sydney. for I've never been to Sydney, so I've been to Melbourne, but I've never been to Sydney. so My mother went to Sydney last year with like a tour group and she like thought it was the greatest place and so she demanded I go. So I was like, all right, I'll go. so I'm there for four days and then I come back to Melbourne, yeah come for the awards.
00:18:50
Speaker
doing a pop-up at carwin cellar is where we are i think sort of' in the beer garden here as well yeah yeah and then yeah i'll be right over there you can see that and then i leave on the 16th so i'm here for it's only 12 days so short in terms of aussie time yeah because when you guys travel it's like months yeah you go and you go on like you know adventures and whatnot but no 12 days and then back home to the states Well, it's pretty much the same size as the States, but with 26 million people. So, you know, we're just sparse.
00:19:20
Speaker
Fair. Yeah. um And I guess for anyone sort of watching or listening that doesn't know M Sorter, can you tell us a bit about what your involvement is with beer and, you know, yeah with many things you get up to? um So I am the founder and cartoonist of Pints Panels, which I started in 2010 when I was in art school. And Pints and Panels focuses on visual drinks education. So beer styles. I also have done, I'm leaning into now more like spirits and wine.
00:19:48
Speaker
um my Instagram is kind of like where everything. And then actually on my website as well, everything's available for free. so if you want to, and it's all organized. So if you want to learn about beer styles, you want to learn about, how beer is made you want to learn about wine you want to learn about cocktails that's what so and then i also do beer like judging i've written four books on beer writing a fifth book on whiskey right now um which is due soon and that's not stressful at all uh and um yeah i do a lot of like illustrated talks i teach classes it's
00:20:22
Speaker
I do illustrations for like commissions. I just did a ah really adorable couples like save the date and their wedding coaster. so i You're available for hire. Yeah, available yes. Hire me. If you pay me, I will draw things for you within reason. um So was the background illustration first or journalism or like, because that's a pretty broad yeah range of talents. It is, it is. um No, I've been drawing since I was four and I love to draw. Like it was my favorite thing and And then getting to go to cartoon school and like hone the talent, learn from some of the best was really great. And then I also went to cartooning school in Vermont, which is kind of a real epicenter of East Coast brewing. So 2010 is when Hill Farmstead starts, yess and I'm there. And there's also really great regional brands, Harpoon, Long Trail, on lots of other. there's a The school I went to is the Center for Cartoon Studies, and it's in White River Junction, Vermont.
00:21:17
Speaker
And it wasn't there when I was there. There's a very good brewery in there. They now called River Roost Brewing, which was right across the street from where I used to live. And I was like, man, if there was a brewery right across, and a good one at that, right where I used to live, that would have awesome. Yeah. And how did Pints and Panels first come into existence? Were you sort of doing these things for fun anyway? And then someone picked up on it and went, hey, Em, this is a thing. You should put it out there. So it started in May of 2010. And I was like, I want to review beer. So it started as a beer review site. So I would drink a beer and I'd be like, I like this. I don't like this. And it was actually named by my art school boyfriend.
00:22:02
Speaker
So I like came home to his apartment one day. And I remember, I mean, like, thinking about it right now, where I went in and he was like reading the newspaper or a book or something. And I was like, hey, I want to i want to review beer. i want to start a beer website. And he like didn't look up and he was like, you should call it pints and panels. And I was like, I owe him a map every time I write something or anytime that I'm like, I constantly thank him because we're still like, we only broke up because moved. um He's great. And so it's just like,
00:22:34
Speaker
And then I just started drawing and it took about a year or so of just like putting stuff out there. And then people started to pay attention a little. And it really was like 2019 COVID time when I started really leaning into the education aspect. Remember the first education comic I ever did was a German Pilsner. And I was like, this is how a German Pilsner is made. And it got like...
00:22:55
Speaker
insane like views and I was like oh this is how I pivot and people up until that point had it just been kind of your take on beers yeah it was like jokey beer stuff beer reviews and beer reviews are good but beer reviews also beer is very hyper local so there's all these breweries that I've never heard of before and I'm reviewing beer like that doesn't really help. Like it's good. And I can tell people where to drink, but you're probably not going to go to that brewery if it's like really small or it's fairly far away or it's only distributed to like a town or something like that. So switching education, I remember, and people had been like, oh, you should do beer education stuff. And I was like, yeah. And I was like, oh man, I should have listened to them a long time ago. It was, and it was just so much fun to like,
00:23:44
Speaker
really dive into beer the education and like learn so much because there's so i learn new things i'll go back and redraw comment content i did and i um i still am like this is accurate should you really fit that out yeah yeah i'm like well you've been overconfident i know well we're like because or i because sometimes i'm there's times when i'm wrong yeah yeah and i'm and i actually really like when people not challenge me but they're like hey like Because there's also a lot of right answers. I always say there's a lot of right answers in beer. So...
00:24:17
Speaker
And it's also, I found with wine, it's really crazy how... I just drew ah ah the major wine-growing regions of France. And the map I um based my content on was... I pulled it from a book that people a lot of people had recommended. And i so I drew it. And then the amount of contents for people telling me I was wrong. i will Just an area region was in slightly the wrong place or something? No, it was just like where they were like, you forgot this, you forgot that. And I wanted to be like... i i I drew this from a book, a very well-known wine book. And it's so, there's so many...
00:24:53
Speaker
It's also region by region to country by country, the where what we think of as certain styles are different, certain places, what people think of or how we drink beer, how we learn about beer is different depending on where we live or like even like eight, like how old we are, like where we've gotten our information from. And so, I mean, the number one thing.
00:25:18
Speaker
Because I've read books, beer books, and I'm like, this is wrong. And so the number one thing that I try with Pints and Panels is like, this has to be
Engagement and Content Creation
00:25:27
Speaker
accurate. Because like, why would I put out work if it's wrong like that doesn't help it i want people to learn especially if someone else picks up and it and goes oh i've seen this and then it just becomes and then yeah i mean that's how beer history you know a lot of beer history is just some guy being like well you know and then it's snowballs and then martin cornell has to come along and go no you're wrong yeah yeah r.i.p martin um But yeah, but people like that were like, or myths, or I've done work where I've had people be like, that's not right. And I'm like, oh, and then I just, I immediately pull it. Yeah. Because why would I leave it up? Yeah. There's no reason to like,
00:26:09
Speaker
you know And it i'll it'll be sometimes where the work has lots and lots of like views and likes and whatnot. And there's a in 2026, especially, there's this weird disconnect between like engagement and accuracy her where people are looking to get the engagement by being wrong. okay And that stresses me out a lot.
00:26:29
Speaker
So I never want Pints and Panels to be, you know, giving you something just because like you hit the like button. That's not, that's, no way. And what, what do you think it was about the education piece like that made it take off? Like sometimes I wonder if we're doing enough to sort of educate people in a clean and accessible way and it feels like what people probably crying out for that and probably ordered a hundred pilsners in their life and they'd never had always been like I think it's kind of like a lager sort of vibe.
00:27:01
Speaker
I think it's um ah especially with a lot of people who are younger nowadays um when I was a kid because I'm older um Like graphic novels and like comic books were seen as kind of this like, those weren't educational. They weren't, they were like a thing you're like, you bought at the like supermarket or at a newsstand or something. And they were, they were entertainment, but they didn't teach you anything. Kids now,
00:27:28
Speaker
mostly read graphic novels and that's and then so a lot of people a lot of my readers or people who like pints and panels are people who grew up being told read this graphic novel yeah and they really like respond to that like visual piece and so it's really cool to like meet like 21 22 23 year olds who are like really into pints and panels because that's the thing that that's how they learned as kids they don't sit and read something for too long but they get the key Get the key information. Yeah, and its and it's also really cool where a lot of people, so the majority of my readership is outside the United States. Yeah.
00:28:03
Speaker
And maybe English is not their first language, but there's pictures. So you don't need to know English to enjoy pints and panels. And I really like that. makes me but People use it to learn English what I've been told. And I think that's that's spectacular. Yeah, what an amazing little, year yeah, sort of side quest. I had no idea. That's so cool. Yeah. And you're talking about sort of engagement, you know, with it not yourself, but maybe deliberately getting things wrong to get engagement. Like I've i've got a 10 year old son who's, whenever we we're not looking, he'll stick on like, you know, some YouTube shorts. I'm like, yeah you're rotting your brain, but the style of content is so, I'd say say chaotic and whatever compared to, you know what we'd have grown up on. But, you know, in terms of Pints of Pounds, you've been doing a long time now, two thousand even seven years since it really took off. Have you noticed sort of what things do really get a great engagement? Because you do quite a range of posts now. Can you see trends in there? Anything Guinness related. okay Anything Guinness related will always take off. okay Anything Guinness related. Like it's it's insane how you mentioned the word Guinness and it's like. It's a bomb. And like, oh, okay. Make a note of that, Will. It's dark stout season coming up in Australia. Oh, fair. Get a whole series of dark beer pieces. and I love Guinness. I think Guinness is delicious. But I've started to... So a lot of my original posts were like, how to change a K, how to like and kind of leaning on stuff like that. I've been starting to redraw those. Mm-hmm. So in 2023, end I switched from drawing everything by hand or like pen and ink on paper to the iPad.
00:29:40
Speaker
I got diagnosed with wrist tendonitis. And so my physical therapist was like, if you switch to the iPad, it actually, instead of using your wrist, you'll use your forearm. And that's better for you.
00:29:51
Speaker
And so my art changed fundamentally. If you look at my work, earlier work than my newer work, you can tell there's a clear difference. It's lot of, it's cleaner, it's brighter.
00:30:02
Speaker
And so I've been going back and redrawing a lot of those because i want to go back to the like, here are some hops, you know, like here is kind of the original stuff that I drew that didn i don't, I am not trying to like read, I guess I am trying to like recycle content, but like make it nicer. And I think that's where I think the like good stuff comes from. There's, I'm like really helpful because I don't, I'm trying to think of like what, because it's the original work. I'm like, what did I just draw that,
00:30:40
Speaker
Anything IPA content-wise also still does really well. Not as well. It's interesting. You'll see like industry people really lean towards lagers, especially in the States. And then ipa stuff always does well. And then my favorite is when older British people get mad at the IPAs because they think the hipsters ruined it. And I was like, okay, we're not talking about 2050. But it's very fun to like...
00:31:08
Speaker
It's fun to see people like what what makes them angry because like for some reason beer sets people off, which I think is very silly. It's it's a drink, you know, like drink it. um But it's a very polar and everyone has very strong opinions about it. Anything strong opinion focus will also like garner. it's It's also very interesting to see like I posted a joke.
00:31:33
Speaker
ah like a couple weeks ago about where it's like every brewery is four guys in a dream. Yeah, yeah. And a guy wrote like, shame on you, breweries are closing. And I was like, it's a joke. I'm pretty sure I went through the commentary on that when I was there. Yeah, it's a real like... Because it's just like, it's mostly most breweries are like three or four guys in a dream. Like, it's funny. um And Pines and Panels is never trying to like make fun of people.
00:32:01
Speaker
I'm never trying to like... make like you know like i would never turn out like i would never be rude or crass yeah and i always think it's strange when people are like that's mean and i was like well no not i think i think the word i was saying was like so those sort of posts to me almost like a sort of cutting critique but done with affection yeah mean it's like another thing you do aside from the education i really yeah my friend david who's a beer writer in the uk wrote m just enough salt okay And I really like where it's like, it's just salty enough where it's like a little bit of a jab, but nothing like just downright. Cause if pints and panels were downright cruel, that would, I have brand standards and tenants like as a business. Cause I'm also an, you know, I'm an artist, but also a business. Like positivity is my number one.
00:32:49
Speaker
Like I would never do anything to like, hurt the industry or call attention to something that was like, you know, if it needed to be called attention to where like we could fix something, then yeah, sure, we'll talk about it. But like, I would never do something. I love beer so much. Why would I like denigrate it or say something rude about it? Yeah, well, and the best level to aim for is where people can't quite tell if you're having a go either. Yeah, yeah, that's true. That is true. think it was a good...
00:33:17
Speaker
And it was actually something, I have a friend who just, like kid he's been in a it's like an NA brewery that he and a couple guys started. And i said to him, I was like, oh, just, you know, three guys in a dream. and he got really mad at me. And I was like, no, man, it's a joke. Like, you know, you guys are doing well. Like, it's cool. Chill out. Oh, yeah.
00:33:39
Speaker
And when where did the idea for the some of this is the comedy
The Role of AI and Travel in Beer Culture
00:33:42
Speaker
pairings you've done? I have to say, the one with, what was was the Dragnet paired with? Because I haven't seen Dragnet. I was like, oh, my God, can't remember. Oh, yeah, classic TV. Like, said, acroid movies or whatever it was. Oh, drag yeah, because it was the yeah cause there's the he did the Dragnet movie.
00:33:57
Speaker
It's all like, it's all, I just, it's all gut, like choice where you're like, I don't know that, you know, I just, i just started doing like a Kevin Smith, like writing out like what to like, what movies, like Kevin Smith movies. And like, then I'll draw them. And I have like a list in my phone where, and you just kind of like, you sit with it. If you don't know right off the bat, usually you're like, it's this. Yeah.
00:34:20
Speaker
And then, like, what's the right answer? Whatever you choose is right answer. There's no, there's no like, um people are like, that's wrong. And it's like, is it? Because there's no, like, this isn't a test. yeah This is just we're having we're having fun. So it's this is my thought. And I'm always, when I, in my fourth book, which is Pairing Beer with Everything... I have an introduction of like how I do it. And I basically, I'm like, what would you choose? Because your answer is also right. Or what you choose is also right. That's the, that's the way that it is. a great caveat for a book to open a book like that with as well. I'd be like, yeah, like we're all going to have a good time. Like here's my like, you know, like warm weather places have like drinkable warm beers or like popular things have popular beer styles. And then, you know, stuff like that. And that's kind of the
00:35:10
Speaker
where I lead, that's how I do it. But then, you know, things you like would go with, like beer styles you like would be paired with, like movies you like, because these things you love and you want to put them together. um That's how I do it. If your answers are different, doesn't mean they're wrong.
00:35:28
Speaker
It's... Got you thinking. Yeah. And that's what like, what would you choose? And I like everyone, I like when people, when I post them, be like, I would do this. Like, it's never like, you're wrong. I would, you know, some people are like...
00:35:40
Speaker
When an infographic will like go into like the explore tab or like gets more likes and it goes outside my realm of followers, yeah the people are always... i' like The Lord of the Rings one I reposted recently and a guy was like, these are all wrong. And I was like, and okay. so i And I have a very strict do not comment policy because...
00:36:03
Speaker
there's no reason to, unless someone has a question that's valid, then obviously I will answer. But if someone's like, these are all wrong, why would I be like, Hey man. where we i think we've found over the years where things have maybe blown up into a conversation that you might go in direction you might not want. Often the, uh, the crowd will come back and yeah do do the work for you so yeah i want i used to teach social I don't teach social media classes anymore um mostly because it's gotten away from me like it's things have evolved so away from like my control like i was giving my I have like a social media talk I give and at the end the questions were so advanced where I i couldn't answer them and I was like I will never do this talk again because I'm not helpful yeah yeah I'm not giving you the answers that you need becomes a history class yeah it is essentially yeah social media five years ago everyone
00:36:53
Speaker
And yeah it was ah it was to a Massachusetts Brewer's Guild and people were asking me things where I was like, don't. Yeah, do we do this on TikTok? yeah i don't yeah. One, I don't do TikTok. I have TikTok, but I like i couldn't, Pines and Pales couldn't like catch on there. yeah And so like the more I was just like, this isn't helping. help I'm not going to do this. um so But yeah, it's social media is so... like I know what I do. i can do what I do.
00:37:21
Speaker
If it's great, great. If not, whatever. I mean, that's you have to like learn and the algorithm constantly changes. So there's weeks where you're like, oh, wow, I got a lot of followers. And then there's weeks where i like no one saw that. But like you you can't when people are like, I'll teach you how to game the algorithm. No, you won't because you can't because it'll change in a week. yeah You don't know.
00:37:43
Speaker
And speaking of tech getting out of hand, you posted a bit about AI, which is contentious topic. We've delved into it a little bit and it's pretty intense and opinionated. I was really fascinated by seeing recently you posted just how far it's come. my God. That was your own work. I have a friend who's German who leans on AI a lot for like education and beer. And I wish he didn't. But again, I'm not going to like tell people what they can and can't do. And so I was like, hey, you made that post a year ago. Can you do it again? And I'm curious. And he's like, yeah, here. And he ran it through. And I was like, oh, no. This sucks. Yeah. Yeah.
00:38:28
Speaker
yeah It sucks when people take your, it's only happened a few times, take my work, run it through AI and been like, look what I made. That happens. I've, the craziest thing was, or like people will be like, let's work together. And they have loads of followers, yeah heaps of followers, as you guys would say. And, um,
00:38:47
Speaker
I'll look it. It's all like AI. And I'll be like, I was telling, ah i was telling people this morning about this story where it was a Italian wine page, 60,000 followers on Instagram. And they're like, oh, we love what you do, blah. blah And so I wrote them back and with a post. And I was like, well, who drew your, who draws your stuff?
00:39:07
Speaker
It's said clearly AI. Yeah. Because you can, once you see it, you know. And the guy just wrote me back. um I'm, I'm interested in results. but And I was like, i don't know what that means. I don't work with anyone.
00:39:20
Speaker
I don't collaborate with anyone who uses gendered A back. So, no. And the guy, and like the, he didn't, English was not his first language, but his, the like response was just like straight chatty. Yeah. Like that, like, and you to be yeah, yeah, for me. And I was just like, You know, but it's every week I'll see something that it's just like it's getting like like I like louder and louder. And but a lot of people really dislike it. So I don't know how the wind will blow.
00:39:52
Speaker
i hope. But a lot of people like I was at a conference. I watched the person sitting next to me on it the whole time. Yeah. Like talking to it. And it's like, there are people, i have a friend who owns a brewery. He will be like, what what do you like? And the people will ask, Chachi BT, what do I like?
00:40:12
Speaker
And it's like, couldn't I just give you Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like... Or, like, there's a lot of articles now where, like, sommeliers are like, I will walk you through it. No, no, no, no. I want the internet to tell me. I did that at home. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I know. Like, I mean, I'm a person who looks at the menu before I go to a restaurant. Like, that's, you know, i I do that. But I would never ask like, I know what I like. yeah ChatGPT doesn't know what I like. The AI doesn't know.
00:40:41
Speaker
And I really, really like how do... i do i and you know ever i'm I'm very anti-AI, but I do use it for one thing, which is contract negotiations because contracts are scary. And so I'll use like, and it's like the way that like it talks to you is so like, like, how do you want me to be? And I'm like, cease naly yeah i was like, and it's like, you know, and I'm always like, thank you. Like, screw you. And it's like, no problem. And I shouldn't use it like, you know, at all.
00:41:15
Speaker
My husband's in IT and he never uses it. And everyone's always like, how do I implement AI? And he's like, you don't because you don't need it. Like I work in IT. I never use it. You don't need to use it. There's nothing that you'll glean from it.
00:41:30
Speaker
And like, yeah, there's certain aspects, obviously, of it that can be helpful for certain businesses. Yeah. Generatively, like the art that it makes is so... like Once you see and you know it and you guys can tell, the like it's everywhere. like i'm On truck label, on lay. I went to a there was a brand new Brazilian restaurant near my house. And the minute I walked in, I was like, oh, their labels. they like Their art is AI. and it maybe be so so It's on their plates. you know And you're just like, ah.
00:42:03
Speaker
There's robots in the kitchen. Yeah. No, it was a very nice Brazilian man and his steaks were great. And the restaurant was awesome. But it was just like, it makes me think less because it's like, you know, like, come on, people like.
00:42:19
Speaker
And it's scary as an art. I don't think I'm not worried about being replaced. I worry about all the art kids in art school. That's what I worry about. Yeah. Yeah. um Well, now, we might take a short break and then come back and have a chat about the whiter beer world, I reckon.
00:42:32
Speaker
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00:42:43
Speaker
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00:43:03
Speaker
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Speaker
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00:43:32
Speaker
Welcome back. Emma, you're in Australia and you get to travel a lot for beer. What do you love about it or are there any like particular favourite moments you've had travelling around? um In Australia in general? In general. i mean, i love I was actually saying this this morning. I love going into...
00:43:54
Speaker
a beer shop, beer bar, and they you look at the chat list and you're like, I don't know any of these breweries at all. Not a clue. And you get to- Don't come here during Pant of Origin then. Yeah, well, I mean, fair. I am doing an event here with Fonaflora. Fonaflora is amazing. Their beers are fantastic. um But it's fun to go to different countries and you go to like like Italy, you go anywhere and you're just, you're like, is it good? i don't know, try it And mean, most of the time, the quality of the beer, especially the like around the world craft is pretty solid. So, yeah.
00:44:33
Speaker
And what is it that takes you traveling? Is it through judging? Is it through writing? Is it through... Usually it's through judging. yeah So um I'm not judging a lot of competitions this year because I'm working on a whiskey book. So I'm illustrating a whiskey book that's due in September. So I can't... After I get home, have a very short trip to... i'm a diehard red sox fan they're absolutely awful for baseball and um i'm going to see them play in cleveland ohio but then other than that this summer i'm not traveling at all which is super rare normally in the summer i'm out and about i travel a lot books don't write themselves do they books do not draw them or draw themselves yeah i know it's a co-authorship so i don't have to write this one but i'm waiting on the pages for it and then have to draw it and lay it out so and it's due september 1st and i've laid out eight pages because i've only been given one chapter so um yeah it's going to be a a very intense summer well make make the most of this and of the red socks defeat in cleveland yes yeah well no the red sox are really awful this year so they probably will lose but it's okay um but so it'll be my summer will be spent there but it's it's fun to go to different countries and just you know i love being surprised yeah biased and you're like oh i don't i don't know this brewery this beer really fantastic um and then you can like look into it you can do some research like it's it's fun it's really really fun And any sort of stand out experiences, whether, you know, any breweries or any countries you've been to and gone, this beer culture is it. And I wish this was back home in the States. um
00:46:06
Speaker
The slow pour culture of Italy.
Trends and Future of Craft Beer
00:46:09
Speaker
They really love to slow pour every style. It doesn't matter what they're pouring. And you'll like one also, no one works with hops the way the Italians do. Their IPAs are spectacular. Their pilsners are spectacular, but they'll slow pour everything. So it's like you order a beer.
00:46:26
Speaker
like a pint, half of it, they let it sit. They pour it like they pour a Guinness, and then they and then it comes with this just like mousse-thick head of foam, and it's like a session IPA, and you're like, okay, sure, sure, it's beautiful. And it's like it's insane how like, and it's and that's the cool thing about country to country is that every country kind of takes their own spin on craft. Whether it's like access to local ingredients, so like here you guys have really great hops. So you have really good pale ales, they're really awesome. I'm just, I wanna drink all the pale ales and XPAs, like just hook them to my veins. That's all I want when I'm here for two weeks. um
00:47:13
Speaker
And then in America, things are more regional just because the craft beer scene is like, so, and you know, there's 9,557 something breweries in the country. But then, you you know ing obviously, and then you have the old so England and Germany and Belgium. But then seeing how like other countries or in then South America, it's a whole other animal. The South American beer scene is awesome. And this is it's kind of interesting. I think there was sort of that maybe fear amongst some people once craft beer spreads start growing becoming popular in every country around the world almost every country around the world. And so much more information became available online or whatever that maybe ah it's kind of like you're going to see the same trends everywhere else. But each culture or each country obviously still clings on to
00:47:59
Speaker
certain things that yeah are you know noticeably identifiable as that country yeah it's cool and like access to local green and so like in italy i always judge beardolano which is their like best of italian craft conference or big competition rather and it's you know, their chestnut beers and they're great. They do they used to do more, way more Italian grape bales. It's kind of a dying style, sadly, which is real shame because those are really, really, really good, especially the non-sour ones are excellent. um
00:48:29
Speaker
But like the, I judge the chestnut beer category because they love chestnut and it, And all the, there was lots of different like ways that they would use it. I had to, the, the instructions on how they used it were in Italian. So like one of the Italian judges, like, he's like, oh no, they use the flour or they use smoked chestnuts. and There were a lot of smoked chestnuts. They were smoked beers, which was really unique and really cool. Yeah.
00:48:54
Speaker
But yeah, I mean, it's really, I'm talking about Italy a lot, mostly because I was there twice this year. So I have like Italy. It's fresh in the mind. Yeah, Italy the brain. You only hold on so many things. Yeah. But it's cool to, like the Mexico scene is really cool and like how it's influenced by the States even like going to, I live in New England, so I live in Haightley country in America. So I'm very used to like sweet, full-bodied,
00:49:21
Speaker
uh, hazy IPAs, double IPAs, and then you go to the West coast and they make hazy IPAs, but they're really dry and bitter. So it's like, how do they react to the style and how do they want their, you know, and there's no wrong answers.
00:49:36
Speaker
It's really cool. Yeah. And yeah, I mean, what about back home in America in Australia, we often see breweries closing and things like that. And that, are you know, craft beer has been declining. Do you feel it feels bad there or is it exciting? there's interesting things going on, of breweries of certain sizes and things like that. mean, um the bigger breweries and the more regional mid-sized breweries, it's hard out there, you know. It's not, you know, not there's people are drinking less or there's consolidation and things are closing, but
00:50:11
Speaker
If you're a small brewery, we were talking about this before the show, actually. it's a small brewer If you're a small brewery that's like two dudes or like husband... Two dudes in a dream. Two dudes in a dream or like a husband like the husband-wife small town brewery is the future of beer in the States right now. These breweries where it's like...
00:50:31
Speaker
that's the that's the move. like They are doing really, really well. And there was this i and everyone's like, oh, beer's in trouble, beer's in trouble. I was looking and it was like, so the Brewers Association, the trade organization in the States, they always do a state of beer. Mm-hmm.
00:50:47
Speaker
around this time, actually it was last month. And it said 60% of breweries were down, but 40% of breweries were up. And I was like, 40% is a lot. And and they probably represent 5% of them. Yeah. And most of them are probably under, ah I mean, I'm thinking barrels in my head cause I'm American. Um,
00:51:06
Speaker
You know, most of them are really, really small. I've never heard of them. They're for a town or a region and they're doing fine. And so beer isn't dead. It's the bigger guys, the more like visible ones are hurting. And that's where everyone's like, oh, beer's in trouble. Mm-hmm. I really don't see it as as dire as everybody thinks because Gen Z, everyone's like, oh, Gen Z doesn't drink. No, they do. They just they have so much more choice. When I was 22, I didn't have THC seltzers or, I mean, I don't know what the weed laws are. Well, we have that in the States, depending on where you live. We have them in Connecticut. where I live. The NA beer market is huge. I don't know what it's like here in Australia. It's huge. It's really huge in the States as well. A lot of breweries make, and they make and they're good too. I judged the NA category World Beer Cup, and I was really, really impressed. And like what, the silver medal winner was a Dortmund export from Lithuania. And I was like, okay, that's great. Yeah.
00:52:13
Speaker
I really think that they there's so much choice now that they are drinking. It's just you can choose with between like hard seltzer in the States, the weed drinks, you know, in, you know, NA stuff. There's lots of different things now that people can drink. And it's, I mean, I really don't, I think, and it's also when you look at...
00:52:38
Speaker
the cyclical nature of beer, America, and at least in the United States, went through a like, ah hate this phrase, but like course correction. So like things closed in the early two thousand s and everyone's like, oh, this is the end of beer. And then five years later, we had the biggest significant craft beer boom of like any that anyone had ever seen.
00:52:58
Speaker
So, you know, who knows what five years will bring. Yeah. Do you think it could sort of start growing again? know and and if so, what do you think might lead to that? You know, is there ah do you think so things that the industry did wrong or more just a case that tastes of change or the world evolves and, you know, what could they do right again?
00:53:16
Speaker
I mean, really think, I really go back to those like two dudes in a dream at, you know, running the beer for the town. I mean, that's as local as it gets. And what did k craft beer start, you know, really as when it picked up again in like 2008, 2009, everyone was into that like bi-local movement. And we've, we're still doing that, but it's much more hyper-local, like hyper, hyper-local. And so who knows where, I really don't know, like You know, what people... i mean, with the right now in America, the popularity is like dark mild. Yeah. People like, what? Yeah. Well, I think i was maybe three UK trips ago to visit family over there, dark mild yeah and then double mild. And even like some people doing like, you know, triple mild. Triple mild. Okay. Yeah. We're no area we not there yet. But that but that was the thing. It was like people embracing just old yeah style beers again, like more simple. yeah I always sometimes think as well,
00:54:14
Speaker
Our brewers are going, hang on, we don't have to use many hops in that. There's no significantly expensive dry hop. yes lets Let's bring it back as a trend. Yeah, it's cheaper to produce. And I mean, look at the, I mean, that's not to bring it up again, but like the popularity of Guinness yeah with younger people. i mean, it's really, really, you know, I mean, who knew that was going to happen? Did you see the the entire front window Carwin at the minute? There's a big poster for um Hop Nation's Melbourne Black, which is their sort of very localized take on, but it's a classic, on tab, it's Nitro Stout. nice They've got it into, what, 30 of their favorite venues around town. They're not selling it much beyond that. I'll drink one straight after this. okay that sounds I would love one. But it's them going, you know, it's like, well, at least younger people are drinking and we might want to make IPAs and pails. But hey, if they want to drink something and they're yeah in the theatre of it, then let's give them what they want, you know, and tell them, hey, this is a local version. You don't have to buy that one. Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah.
00:55:11
Speaker
You mentioned it before. did. I can't remember I'll know our affair, but what do you like about XPA? Australia's sort of little style that I think we stole from America but made our way. Well, I mean, XPA for us is essentially, i guess, like a session IPA. um I just, I want what I can't have. And I probably could just drink session IPA at home and call it a day, but...
00:55:33
Speaker
Get a permanent market. Yeah, just write XPA on it and be like, yeah. um Probably a bit less bitter, I would have thought. The session IPAs still have a bit of a kick. It can. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It depends on like if it's hazy or not. the like lower it's America now, we're kind of like, it depends on where you live. But there's where I live, it's a lot of like lower perceived bitterness. But no, anytime I travel to a place where like i just we don't have XPA. And so everyone, like when I was like, I'm going to Australia, like a lot of people were like,
00:56:01
Speaker
don't forget to drink XPA. And I was like, oh, I won't. and Probably 10 years ago it would have been make sure you have Pacific Ale. I mean, I do love Pacific Ale. Great. And so do you see XPA much in the States? No, not at all. I can't name a brewery. There's probably like a couple, but I can't name a brewery off the top of my head who makes one. Yeah. so i had There were some Americans over here a couple of years ago for the hop harvest and they were all like, buying every single XBA. Oh yeah. I would probably do that. Yeah. I got to take them home and think about making them. It's the lower ABV, I think as well. Obviously America's going there, but we've had a strong sort of mid strength ABV market for a long time. think brewers here are pretty good at it. mid strength stuff. I actually really hate the phrase mid strength, because that means absolutely nothing to anybody. Like what the heck does that mean? Um, but that, yeah, that like 3.5, 4%, like,
00:56:53
Speaker
like full flavor but lower ABV is really popular and it's been popular for a while in the states as well. And aside from dark milds there any other trends that you see stars you're seeing coming through in the states or even trends within you know the experience of going to brewery venues or anything like you know is there anything you're noticing?
00:57:13
Speaker
Right now, it's it's nice to see a lot of breweries in, not a lot, but some breweries in the States install cask systems. So like beer engines and doing it right where it doesn't suck. So that's always really pleasing. um Breweries discovering malt. Mm-hmm.
00:57:32
Speaker
as flavor has been i judge the so i judge world beer cup and they have classic ipa as a category and i was the table captain and i'm always just like crystal malt people crystal ma remember remember we're all gonna go back in time to 1995 you're gonna order an ipa and that's what it should taste like and then the set the the silver winner was a classic west coast ipa and i was like Come on, people. yeah um Make it chewy out. Yeah, yeah i want I want, like, what did I order? Oh, I ordered, i was at, on my way here, I had a Dogfish Head 60 Minute.
00:58:08
Speaker
And I was texting with a friend and I was like, remember malt? I was like, I really don't want to, like, I wanted something else, but I was like, man, it's really nice to have malt and hop together. i was like, that's great. Yeah, i I think there is a bit of that, you know, not just go going back to older styles, maybe to rediscover something older, something new, but that going back to that familiar, you know, every now and then someone puts out a more old school like APA yeah or, you know, American IPA that isn't just really lean and really fruity. You're just like, oh, I don't know. people do more of that. it's I feel like I've come home. Yeah, no, it's a very, like, it's comforting. yeah I had, um there was the Craft Brewers Conference for in Philadelphia a couple weeks ago, and I was at the Sierra Nevada, was having, like, a party, and the communications person for Sierra gave me a, like, just their pale ale, like, fresh pale on draft, and I was like, Oh, I remember. like And this is the year, like ah you know this they've been making this beer the exact same way since 1980. And it's sometimes, don't reinvent the wheel. yeah you know like There are beers that kind of stand the test of time where...
00:59:18
Speaker
Like, wow, i like I remember balance. Remember balance? We chatted to jerey Jeremy Monnier from Stone recently, and he was saying that that the sales of Stone IPA have been went up significantly last year, and they didn't really do anything different around it, but they're thinking it's kind of people going back to something. Yeah, because that beer has like at least some, like, a little bit of like malt backbone. Yeah, and it's that's...
00:59:45
Speaker
I think it's it's also, yeah, familiarity. It's nostalgia. It's comfort. Yeah. Beer is comforting. Yeah. And um I guess before we wrap up, I would love to know, do you have a favorite panel from all those you've created over the years or panels? We don't have to be too... didacted the most I mean, I can tell you the one that got the most popularity and then I've talked about them is went there last year and then I reposted it was the Guinness blends because it involved the GONSTER, which is Guinness mixed with, do you have monster energy drink here? Yeah. yeah yeah
01:00:20
Speaker
And apparently it's really good. And then the internet got really mad that that existed and then blamed me for it. And I was like, no, read an article about it. I didn't invent it. Is it a bit like we used to have a thing I moved over the UK, there was an era where alco pops, as they called them, like hard soft drinks came in. And you'd mix like, if you'd mix a, you know, one of those alco pops with a lager and was called a Turbo Shandy. And then people started doing it with Guinness and called it a Turbo Shandy, which I kind of like. Sounds like the same kind of thing. I've never had one. So I guess like I really, there's a, one of the classic panels,
01:00:58
Speaker
that i I guess actually no, I think my favorite panel and I should redraw it is my cats and bear panel because theyre my two favorite things. and I have two cats and I love them very much and it's a cat like holding a beer's hand and it's just like so stupidly adorable that like it encompasses like everything that I love and that's what I i guess I try to do with Pints and Panels is like i i do I love this. You know, like this is a passion, like this isn't just a job. This is something that I really, really love. And I think, yeah, a cat holding, you know, and then also just like kind of ludicrous as well, where it's like this giant orange cat and there's like pint of beer holding hands. Like it's, that's something that I like when,
01:01:39
Speaker
I get to explore the things that I really like. And then, and then that doesn't teach, but normally i also like to teach people that didn't teach anybody anything. so But it's fun. Yeah, it's fun. Yeah, beer is fun.
01:01:49
Speaker
Beer is fun. Well, on that note. Yeah. Thanks for joining us. It's been heaps, heaps good. Thank you for having me. Cheers. Cheers. Hi everyone, it's Matt from the Pine of Origin Festival where the world of beer comes to Melbourne.
01:02:01
Speaker
Kia ora, I'm Ryan, I'm the Festival Director of Beervana, the world's weirdest, wildest and greatest beer festival, according to Dylan and myself. We're here on a mission to find Australia's biggest beer fan and we reckon that Pine of Origin is the best place to start.
01:02:17
Speaker
One lucky winner will be crowned Australia's biggest beer fan and win an epic Beervana prize including return flights to Wellington, four nights accommodation, festival passes, brewery experiences, spending money, merch and more for you and a plus one.
01:02:31
Speaker
Plus, everyone who enters will get access to two for one bring and make tickets for Beervana when they go on sale in June. To nominate yourself or a friend as Australia's biggest beer fan, head to beervana.co.nz. Make sure you get down to the Catfish here in Fitzroy from the 15th for Pint of Origin where you can try a whole bunch of incredible New Zealand beer.
01:02:51
Speaker
That's a bit of a taster before you come to New Zealand for beer vana.
01:02:56
Speaker
Cheers. Beer. Bringing the world closer together.
01:03:03
Speaker
The Crafty Pint podcast is produced and edited by Matt Hoffman. You can get all your beer-related news and reviews on the Crafty Pint website, craftypint.com, and can stay up-to-date on future podcast episodes via our socials.
01:03:17
Speaker
We wouldn't be able to produce the podcast or the website, events or festivals we run without the support of the beer industry, whether that's suppliers, bars, breweries or bottle shops. If you'd like to support the show or partner with The Crafty Pine in other ways, please reach out to Craig via the details in the show notes.
01:03:33
Speaker
And if you're a beer lover who'd like to support what we do, you can join our exclusive club for beer lovers, at The Crafty Cabal. Visit craftycabal.com for more. And until next time, drink good beer.