Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
The Psychological Importance of Rest
14 Plays3 days ago
Eloise Skinner is an entrepreneur, author and existential therapist. She is the founder of two businesses: One Typical Day (an ed-tech start-up), and The Purpose Workshop (a social impact consultancy).
In this episode, of Rest and Recreation Eloise explains the psychological importance of rest.
Eloise and host Michael Millward discuss how rest is not always doing nothing. Rest can involve doing something that is more about fulfilling a passion. Yet many people are only passionate about meeting a work deadline.
Real rest often requires us to detach ourselves from our work personality so that we can focus on who we really. To achieve this Eloise advocates for defining personal values and using these to define how we will live, and what we want to be passionate about.
Michael and Eloise also discuss her new book, But Are You Alive?
Buy books by Eloise Skinner at these retailers
Eloise is based in London, an expensive place to visit, which is why we use the Ultimate travel club, because ultimate travel club members buy at trade prices on flights and hotels, package deals and all sorts of other travel essentials.
Use our offer code ABEC79 to receive a discount on club membership fees.
The Independent Minds is Made on Zencastr, the all-in-one podcasting platform, on which you can create your podcast in one place and then distribute it to every platform. Zencastr really does make making content so easy.
If you would like to try podcasting using Zencastr visit zencastr.com/pricing and use our offer code ABECEDER.
Thank you to the team at Matchmaker.fm for introducing me to Eloise. If you are a podcaster looking for interesting guests or if like Eloise, you have something interesting to say Matchmaker.fm is where matches of great hosts and great guests are made. Use our offer code MILW10 for a discount on membership.
Visit Abeceder for more information about both Michael Millward, and Eloise Skinner.
Tech Problems?
If you are using your smartphone to listen to The Independent Minds and experienced connection problems, you would probably like to know that Three has the UK’s fastest 5G network with unlimited data, so listening on Three means that you can wave goodbye to buffering.
Visit Three for information about business and personal telecom solutions from Three, and the special offers available when you quote our referral code WPFNUQHU.
Being a Guest
If you would like to be a guest on The Independent Minds, please contact Abeceder.
We recommend that potential guests take one of the podcasting guest training programmes available from Work Place Learning Centre.
If you have liked this episode of The Independent Minds, please give it a like and download it so that you can listen any time anywhere.
To make sure you do not miss future editions please subscribe.
Remember, the aim of all the podcasts produced by Abeceder is not to tell you what to think, but we do hope to make you think!
Until the next time, thank you to you for listening.
Recommended
Transcript
00:00:05
Speaker
Made on Zencaster.
Introduction to the Podcast
00:00:06
Speaker
Hello and welcome to Rest and Recreation, the work-life balance podcast from Abecedah. I'm your host, Michael Millward, the managing director of Abecedah.
00:00:19
Speaker
As the jingle at the start of this podcast says, Rest and Recreation is made on Zencaster. Zencaster is the all-in-one podcasting platform on which you can make your podcast in one place and then distribute it to the major platforms like Spotify, Apple, Amazon, and YouTube Music. Zencaster really does make making content so easy.
00:00:44
Speaker
If you would like to try podcasting using Zencastr, visit zencastr.com forward slash pricing and use my offer code ABACEDA. All the details are in the description.
00:00:56
Speaker
Now that I have told you how wonderful Zencast is for making podcasts, we should make one. One that will be well worth listening to, liking, downloading, and subscribing to. As with every episode of Rest and Recreation, we won't be telling you what to think, but we are hoping to make you think.
Guest Introduction: Eloise Skinner
00:01:16
Speaker
Today's rest and recreation guest is Eloise Skinner. Eloise is an entrepreneur, author, and existential therapist. She's the founder of two businesses, One Typical Day, an education technology startup, and The Purpose Workshop, a social impact consultancy. Eloise is also the author of three books, The Purpose Handbook, The Junior Lawyers Handbook, and Are You Alive?
00:01:46
Speaker
Eloise is based in London, the capital of the United Kingdom. It's an expensive place to visit, which is why when I go to London, I always book my travel through the Ultimate Travel Club because the Ultimate Travel Club gives me access to trade prices on flights and hotels, package deals, and all sorts of other travel essentials. There is a link and a membership discount code in the description.
Career Transition: Law to Therapy
00:02:11
Speaker
Now that I've paid the electric bill, we can make a podcast Hello, Eloise. Hello, thank you so much for having me. It's a great pleasure. Thank you very much. Can we start, please, by you giving us a little bit of a history of who you are, where you've come from and how you ended up doing what you do today? Absolutely. So I am Eloise. I was born in London, East London, and then
00:02:37
Speaker
sort of moved around a little bit during when I was growing up in Hertfordshire, Cambridge, and then back to London. And I started my career in corporate law. So I studied law at university. I really enjoyed law at university. And I thought I was destined to be a lawyer for the rest of my life. So I went back into the city. I qualified as a solicitor. I specialised in corporate tax, actually. Ooh, that sounds serious stuff, corporate taxation. It's actually very legal. So it's one of the most kind of academically legal parts of corporate law, because a lot of corporate law is just kind of um sort of more in the business and finance side. But corporate tax, lots of law involved there, black letter law. So yeah, I really enjoyed that. But during those years, I also started to enjoy other things. So I was writing for a publication called The Lawyer Magazine, um and I ended up writing a book.
00:03:26
Speaker
And I really started to enjoy writing and speaking and sort of doing all of the things around my job, the teaching side and mentoring and supporting others. I thought perhaps I could have a few years out exploring those other avenues and I actually haven't haven't been back yet. But in that time I retrained as a psychotherapist and I've written a few more books as well.
00:03:46
Speaker
and So quite ah quite a change. Yeah, I think there are some crossovers between law and psychotherapy. I mean, they're both very analytical
The Importance of Rest
00:03:56
Speaker
disciplines, I guess. So you're really thinking about the meaning of things and going deep into um the nuances of language, communication. so And I think also they're quite curious, both are quite curious disciplines. So they're really both thinking, you know, why would someone say that? Or why would someone write that? Or what is the core purpose of something? So I think there are some some some similarities.
00:04:15
Speaker
Yes, one of the things that I'm curious about, and which I think is important is this idea of the psychological importance of rest, and which I know is something that is, that you've looked into in quite a lot of detail. So I thought we'd start off with like, what do we mean by rest?
00:04:32
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's a really interesting question and probably one that isn't really examined enough in today's society. I think we're encouraged just to go through life at full pace without really making time for rest or prioritizing rest. I think rest could probably mean different things to different people. We know that our lives ah feel best or feel most fulfilling when there's a rhythm to them. So that when they're not just one thing going full on at all times, but when we have like an ebb and a flow time when we're focused and time when we're stepping back and so we have this sense of real structure or um yeah I think rhythm is a good word to our lives and that includes time for working very intensely on something we
00:05:13
Speaker
feel passionate about and also time for rest. So stepping away from that. But I don't necessarily think that rest needs to be associated only with staying in bed and watching Netflix all day or having a lion. Although that could be good as well. But you know, you can find rest in activities that you feel fulfill you in a way that your work or your full time job or any other parts of your life that feel quite disciplined and intense.
00:05:39
Speaker
restful activities could fulfill you in a way that those don't and that touches on you know a part of your identity that is separate from your working self. You mentioned staying in bed all day and watching cable TV, satellite TV, streaming services, all sorts of stuff. And that's almost made me think that's a physical rest where you stop, you you but but it's different to sleep. The sleep where you're absolutely doing nothing and your eyes are closed, you're asleep and your body is, I'm told, repairing itself during that period when you are asleep.
00:06:12
Speaker
You've then got the physical rest where you're doing nothing. You're just there just doing nothing. And then you mentioned the psychological importance of of rest. It sounds that what you're saying is when you've got a job which requires you to concentrate, to focus, to meet deadlines, to work under pressure,
00:06:38
Speaker
The psychological rest is as important as the physical rest, but it doesn't mean from what you're saying, doing nothing. It means using different part of your brain and doing it for different reasons. Yeah, I think, yeah, I think that captures it. I think it really depends on the, on the individual. Like, um, people are so different, you know, what fulfills them and what restores them and how they feel in terms of their energy levels. And that can change throughout your life as well.
00:07:05
Speaker
I think sometimes the physical like physically resting can also be psychologically fulfilling so if you are physically just having a day not doing much and just lying around and sort of taking some time to just um you know be in one place and that can be psychologically fulfilling as well especially if you feel like you've been being very full on in a physical and psychological way. But yeah for others I think you know we can always have we can be sort of physically rested and at the same time psychologically unrested. So I think those things aren't necessarily always aligned. um ah So I think it would be up to each person to see, you know, how do I actually feel both physically and mentally and emotionally and what are the activities that I feel would restore me in in different ways. This is why this is so interesting because the podcast is called Rest and Recreation.
00:07:56
Speaker
And you're someone who is advises, helps, supports people to make better use of their rest time, their recreation time. But it's not simply about collecting a list of other activities to do. One of the things that you said it in your various different books is that you'll get the greater recreation, the greater rest when that activity is focused on something that you are passionate about.
00:08:25
Speaker
And yeah I wonder how many people when they're under the cost, so to speak, they are got all of the work pressures, all of the family life pressures, all of the paying the bills. I wonder how many people actually know what it is that as an individual in their own space, in their own time, what it is that they're passionate about?
Finding Personal Passions
00:08:45
Speaker
Yeah. How do people go about finding out what their passion is? Yeah, it's ah it's a great question. I think it's so true that We are sometimes really disconnected from things that we feel passionate about. um Sometimes the nature of our lives can just take us into a pattern of needing to do things because of financial stability or other responsibilities that we have in our lives. And then when we do have time off, we
00:09:10
Speaker
might be so exhausted or so drained that we just want to almost do nothing and fulfill that physical side of ah rest. So yeah on a personal level though, yeah you were a corporate tax lawyer in the city of London.
00:09:25
Speaker
Yeah, that's a high pressure job. but If ever there was one, it's long hours. and The client comes first, no whatever is happening in your life comes second to fulfilling the needs of the client. In that career, you will have been looking at several years of very high income and partnerships or or whatever. But you gave it all up to follow your passion. How did you identify what your passion was?
00:09:55
Speaker
Yeah, I think for me, it was almost a process of just really noticing or observing. and This might be a good thing that a lot of people can do as well. It's just really notice in your life where you're finding these moments of real engagement and fulfillment because quite often our jobs will touch on elements of things that we're passionate about, even if we the overall job is really stressful or too high pressure or just not a good fit for us.
00:10:18
Speaker
I think noticing during your week, where are the times where you feel most alive, most fulfilled, most engaged. And I was noticing that um it was like actually less when I was doing these sort of technical legal stuff and more when I was trying to communicate a concept to someone when I was teaching someone something or when I was trying to explain something or write something down. I was noticing those skills were fulfilling me the most. And so I think it was almost a process of observing like the little pieces that were that were elements of my passion.
00:10:48
Speaker
And then seeing what would happen if I took up more of those. So for example, then I took up a writing role with the lawyer or writing other articles, or even within the the actual boundaries of my job, you know, doing more presenting, doing more writing within, you know, the work that I was actually doing as a corporate tax lawyer, and then just leaning more and more into that and seeing if that gave me a greater sense of passion overall.
00:11:09
Speaker
So it's finding those things that you enjoy and then working out how you can do more of what it is that you enjoy. Still pay the bills, but actually doing work that you enjoy doing means you forget you you're not so hung up on the status on the the career progression. You're doing something that is enjoyable, so that is fun.
00:11:30
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. And I think, I mean, there's a lot being written about this idea of job crafting or job design, which is when you have your job, you're sort of in ah in a position, but you can lean on particular elements of your job to to design it to be more accommodating of your own interests and passions. It takes quite a lot of energy to do that. I would say it takes a lot of, well, firstly, the ability to observe actually how you feel going through your week.
00:11:53
Speaker
which I think is not really something that we're encouraged to do, like self-reflect on exactly how activities feel for us because, you know, we just feel like it's one thing after another at work and we're kind of just on a path. But I think stepping back from your experience and looking at actually which bits of this role are fulfilling me. And then after that, figuring out, is there a way that I could tailor my job or design it to be slightly more allowing of those aspects? So you lean more into those and perhaps away from other things that make you feel less fulfilled or more stressed or more exhausted. It is quite hard to do that and it's not always possible in every job, obviously, um but I think it's a very interesting activity or exercise to do with yourself anyway, just the process of of observing.
00:12:36
Speaker
Yes, matching the work that you're doing to the activities that you actually enjoy. I suspect you're with my ah HR ah professionals hat on. You need to talk to your manager, you need to talk to your colleagues and work out who enjoys the various different tasks and enable more people. It's not something to do necessarily by yourself.
00:12:56
Speaker
but to do as a team to work out how everybody's tasks, everybody's job can be crafted around their particular interests so that you know when you're more interested in your job, you'll be more productive. So there's an advantage to the employer as well. Definitely. And I think a lot of managers will actually be open to that conversation because because it shows a level of involvement or investment in the actual job itself. So you're trying to figure out you know how can this particular role, which I'm committed or I feel like I'm going to invest my energy into now. How can it be um how can it reward my strengths and my interests the most? So I give it my top energy level.
00:13:33
Speaker
Yes, but I also think that there are some steps to go through before you can get to that point. And I think perhaps too many people are too focused in many ways on just the deadline, the target, the way that I'm supposed to do this without actually thinking through, do I enjoy what I'm doing?
00:13:55
Speaker
Am I successful at what I do? Would I be happier, more successful if I was enjoying the work that I'm doing? We just get tied into job title, income, the corner office, what type of company car have I got? All these types of things.
00:14:12
Speaker
rather than thinking, what is it that drives me? What are my passions? What am I interested in? And when it comes down to it, it's just it's just a job, isn't it? and We shouldn't let our work define us, and yet so many of us do. Definitely. I think it's so hard to move away from the work-related identity in a society that really prioritises, as we were speaking before, this idea of like your identity being so closely aligned to your job that when people meet you, they say, what do you do like for your career? And that's really seen as like the fundamental part of your identity. I think it takes a lot of work to really step away from that and to start to redefine things for yourself. Yes. What sort of work is involved? I think a real analysis of the different components of who you are as a person. So you can start with things like your values, you know what you care about, things that are important to you in the world.
00:15:09
Speaker
And that could be anything from a personal sense of the different aspects of yourself. So considering yourself as like a generous person or a caring person or an ambitious person.
00:15:20
Speaker
so values-related work and then passions, as we were speaking about before, what are the things that make you feel most fulfilled, most excited, most um alive or present in the world? um And then an analysis of your skills and abilities, the things that you're good at, the things that you really thrive doing. And this kind of more holistic assessment of who you are in all of these different aspects um can give you a good sense of your identity that isn't particularly aligned to any particular career path that that is more personal to you.
00:15:49
Speaker
And you said values and then your passions. Is that the order that we should be defining these in? Should we say, what are my values? And then from those, move on to thinking about our passions. Yeah, this um I think I would normally I normally do like to start with values based work, especially if I'm working with, say, a client who's come into therapy um with the question of Like, who really am I, which is a big theme in existential therapy, you know, when you feel like you've lost this sense of identity. um This can often happen during transitional moments in life, so grief, loss, um also good transitional moments like having children or getting married or like, you know, some kind of shift in new careers, new locations, things like that.
00:16:29
Speaker
so where people feel like they've lost this sense of anchoring in their lives of who they actually are. um I really like to start with values work because they feel like that's quite grounded and feels quite foundational for people. Like what do I actually stand for? What do I care about? The actual feeling of having a set of values that you live out in the world or that You know, your own personal sense of who you are is reflected in the actual actions and the way that you stretch your life. That can be really fulfilling this sense of alignment between who you think you are and who you actually are in the world or like the things that you're doing in the world. And then passions, I feel like they're a bit, they can be a bit more practical sometimes. So yeah, so perhaps values is a bit more internal work and then passion starts to get a bit more external. I imagine that once you've worked out what your values are, that can give you confidence to be the person that you want to be that you are and helps you to identify.
Understanding Personal Values
00:17:22
Speaker
I can almost like if you work out what your values are, then that will determine how you behave in in any given situation. Yeah, absolutely. And it can it can help in so many different ways. I mean, it can help you
00:17:36
Speaker
Yeah, determine your behavior or you choose your responses in any particular situation. This is a very existential therapy idea of the ability to choose how you respond in situations rather than just reacting um without really considering how you want to be or how you want to act in a situation. And it can also help you make really difficult decisions in life. So where you feel like you're stuck between two things or you're in a bit of a conflict or you're not quite sure you've got some kind of confusing decision to make. um Having a set of values can really help you anchor yourself within that decision and give you a clearer path as to what you want to do.
00:18:11
Speaker
Yes, I know that from sitting on various different senior management teams and boards. That's the thing, you can spend days, weeks, months, it feels like, arguing about the different practicalities of a situation and the different issues around different courses of action. and And then you stop and say, so what do our values tell us we should do in this situation? And you have the answer it in two or three minutes and everybody buys into it because You remove, in many ways, the those conflicts between people because you're progressing the situation, processing it based on your values. And that then makes it so much easier because you don't have to worry about, it well, if this person won't like it, this person will like it, this all those sorts of things.
00:19:00
Speaker
It becomes, these are my values, this is determining my thought processes, my decision making and my behaviours and everything sort of fits into place. It also gives you that power, that self-confidence to not go with the flow, not follow the herd when other people are doing things that don't fit with your values because you've defined your values. You can say, this isn't for me.
00:19:28
Speaker
Definitely. um And I think it's it's interesting, the corporate example, actually, as well, because I often think how counterintuitive it is that we often associate values with corporate structures. So we think, you know, I could probably name that corporations values or ah the things that it says it can cares about. But we often can't do that for ourselves or the people that we know. So I think values are sometimes I mean, corporation values or corporation missions and purposes, sometimes clearer than the ones that we have for our own lives.
00:19:56
Speaker
And part of that is obviously, cause we're such like complex and multidimensional people, but also part of it is that it just isn't normalized to do that for ourselves. Whereas, you know, if you're starting a company, you're thinking, okay, what, like we're going to write down the values now and that's going to shape our direction.
00:20:11
Speaker
Yes, shape our direction, shape how we will do things, how we will buy things, how we will sell things. The whole gamut of everything that you do is defined by your values. um so think This ties in with your book, Am I Alive? Tell us some more about Am I Alive?
Exploring a Fulfilled Life
00:20:30
Speaker
Yeah, and so the book is a it's kind of an exploration of different types of fields and disciplines that all address this question of what makes you feel most alive. And it was really a sort of process of thinking through, I had all these different trainings, so obviously existential therapy, there's a lot of that in the book, but also things like I'm a yoga instructor, so I have a bit of exposure to yoga philosophy and sort of the physical embodiment side.
00:20:55
Speaker
um And I also have this monastic training and experience. So I wanted to bring those things together from a lot of different disciplines from so many different cultures and traditions and all trying to get at this question of what does it mean to live a fully alive life or a really fulfilling life that feels personal to you, that feels um You know, exciting and dynamic and also restorative and kind of takes you in the direction that you feel like is right for you. And so really it's a teaching, a collection of teachings from different places. And it's got a lot of practical exercises in there as well. So you're exploring from different disciplines, you know, different tools and techniques that can help you figure out.
00:21:32
Speaker
What would make you feel most alive? And I suppose in many ways, a lot of us don't, well a lot of us aren't alive. A lot of us are existing, but aren't actually alive in the sense that you're describing in the book. yeah actres what What you're describing is that finding your purpose, living your purpose,
00:21:51
Speaker
doing something that is beyond just, I've got a job, I've got kids, I paid the bills, all these sorts of things. It's like almost, what is the impact you're going to have on the world? What is the legacy that will be the result of you having been here? Yeah, definitely. And i I think it's not, for me, I've never really seen it as a kind of, this is the right way to do it. Or, you know, that people who are very career orientated or who just, um,
00:22:17
Speaker
ah focused on other responsibilities, not that that isn't like the right way to live, but just more that if there if for people who feel a sense of there must be something more, which is really the sense that I had that led me to all of these to try and explore all of these disciplines in the first place. and I think for those people I wanted to offer you know different routes or different paths that they could explore in more depth in their own time or in more practical ways. And I think you know we go through phases of life and sometimes we are just career focused and that feels the most fulfilling fulfilling to us and we might not even be considering those questions of you know who am I and what's the what's the most ah alive or fulfilled way I can live my life.
00:22:55
Speaker
Sometimes we're kind of just going for it and we have our heads down and we're focused on something. and And then in other periods of life, you know, change, grief, loss, transition, where we're sort of in this liminal space between one phase of life and another, where things are shifting around us, then we might call upon some of these practices to help us or give us a sense of stability and direction. I suppose they to give us the why as to why we're doing something. Yeah.
00:23:19
Speaker
isn't it? You've got all of the those who want why, where, when, but actually the most important part of that is the why. And you're not, you know, somebody wants to be career focused or somebody's very family focused or whatever it is that somebody is focused on, that is perfectly fine. I don't sense that you're telling people that you shouldn't be that type of person that isn't the right life. That's not what you're saying.
00:23:44
Speaker
What you're saying is that I suppose if if you are going into work and not enjoying it, then there is no point in being silently miserable. There is no point in simply looking for another job and realizing that you actually preferred the first job more than you prefer the new job. but yeah You've got to got to work out what it is that is important to you.
00:24:07
Speaker
work out your values, work out what that is going to mean in terms of the things you're going to focus on, the behaviours you're going to have, and then drive for that rather than just being satisfied with, yeah, well, I've got a job, I'm paying the bills. If you can work out what your values are, what your passions are, you'll find something that will enable you to pay the bills. You'll just be doing it with more of a smile on your face.
00:24:33
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that's the kind of, um that's definitely the intention of the book. And I think a lot of people maybe don't need it all the time or maybe you don't even, you know, a lot of people don't think about the question of meaning and purpose because they have a life that instinctively gives them some sense of meaning. I always think about, you know, my parents actually is when I ah first said, you know, I'm going to existential therapy as when I'm before I trained as a therapist, when I was exploring it for myself.
00:25:01
Speaker
I think they were just a bit confused as to like why that would be needed because I think you know they have an instinctive sense of what's meaningful to them so it's not like they're considering that question all the time. So I think maybe some people just have this sense of meaning they're quite connected to it anyway without actually going through the process of thinking. like one of the things that are meaningful to me, they just live a life that is quite that feels quite closely aligned. And so they don't they don't feel this sense of searching or need, which I have always really felt. And for other people, it can be really helpful. you know So I think if someone is feeling, oh, there must be more, there must be something deeper, there must be something more aligned to who I am, or for people who are going through some kind of crisis, so like an existential crisis about identity identity or about the way that you're living your life, I think then it can be helpful. Yeah, this this kind of work.
00:25:46
Speaker
Yes. Every time you say something, my mind is sort of exploding. We're like, yeah, I must talk about that. I must talk about this mr this. There's so much to what you are doing. And when you talk about your parents, I can imagine that it must have been quite confusing for them to see their daughter who's to all intents and purposes is like on a successful career path as a corporate lawyer in the city of London.
00:26:10
Speaker
What more could you want out of life type of thing? And then, oh, I'm going to do this. It must have been what? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that was how it felt for me, to be honest. I i really, I really thought that that was the way and this was kind of what started the whole journey. It's like, I really believed growing up that that would be the way to fulfilment. But, you know, it's kind of told in society, you know, if you get a really good job and you're earning a lot of money and You've got this job title that makes everyone be like, wow, that's so interesting. And, you know, yeah you must be doing such important work and you feel like I'm really needed here in this organization and the team is great and the culture is great and blah, blah. I kind of thought like that will lead ultimately and inevitably to a fulfilled life. And I think I was the most shocked by it all of like, okay, that actually doesn't feel like that it doesn't feel like everything to me. It feels like there's still something else that I have to go and look for.
00:27:04
Speaker
um But yeah, I think they were they were surprised as well. But to be honest, they um they had their own creative artistic paths through life. So I think they were pretty supportive of meeting something else. Yes, it was great. But if people are interested in finding out more, where is the best place for people to go to find more information about about
Conclusion and Further Resources
00:27:24
Speaker
you? So my website is probably um the best because everything is linked there. And that is Eloise Skinner dot com. but Today, Eloise, thank you. It's been very interesting. Time has flown.
00:27:34
Speaker
Always does when something is very interesting, but I really do appreciate your time today. Thank you very much. Thank you so much for having me. Pleasure. Thank you. I am Michael Millward, the managing director of Abecedah. In this episode of Rest and Recreation, I have been having conversation with Eloise Skinner. You can find out more information about both of us at abecedah.co.uk. There are links in the description. If your connection has been buffering as you've listened to this episode, episode of Rest and Recreation, you may like to know that 3 has the UK's fastest 5G network with unlimited data. So listening on 3 means you can wave goodbye to buffering. There is a link in the description that will take you to more information about business and personal telecom solutions from 3 and the special offers available when you use my referral code. That description, just like Eloise's book, the Purpose Handbook,
00:28:32
Speaker
The Junior Lawyers Handbook and Are You Alive? is well worth reading. If you've liked this episode of Rest in Recreation, please give it a like and download it so that you can listen anytime, anywhere. To make sure you don't miss out on future episodes, please subscribe. Remember, the aim of all the podcasts produced by Abecedah is not to tell you what to think, but we do hope to make you think. Although it remains for me to say,
00:28:59
Speaker
is until the next episode of Rest in Recreation. Thank you for listening and goodbye.