Transcript
Speaker: I never expected that the Europe ah are living in the past ah while China is living in the future. Hello and welcome to The Auto Ethnographer. I'm John Steck, your host on this journey. We travel the globe to bring you stories about culture and the global automotive industry.
Speaker: Fasten your seatbelt and let's get started. Hello and welcome to this week's episode of The Auto Ethnographer. I'm very excited to welcome back Grace Mo.
Speaker: This time, it's from a different perspective. She just completed ah trip to Europe, her first ever, visiting France and Italy. And she's here today to talk about her impressions of Europe, how she compares it to China, and you may be surprised by some of the results.
Speaker: Grace, welcome back to the autoethnographer. Thank you for having me, John. Good to see you again. i'm I'm glad that you have gotten over your jet lag and you're you're back and ready to talk.
Speaker: Yeah, I have a lot of the share with the audience and I have a very fresh mindset about the Europe and I got a lot of ah things to talk.
Speaker: It's exciting because When you travel to a new place and see something for the first time, you know that's exploration, you learn, you see. But what's what's interesting in this case is you've been working on European topics, on brands and fashion for a long time, but yet you've never gone and seen Europe firsthand.
Speaker: So it'll be really interesting, I think, to get to your impressions, ah what you thought and and whether your impressions were accurate or whether things were unexpected for you.
Speaker: Actually, before I just landed on Europe, i just worked with a lot of European and the global brands like a Ferrari and the AV image and a lot of European brands.
Speaker: And i i I got familiar with their brand storage and the origins, province or things like that but ah after I landed on Europe i get to more insights about the philosophies behind those European brands and ah especially the life philosophy that France embraced, philosophy of life.
Speaker: And the different from China, you know, for Chinese brands and the Chinese consumers, they always prioritize the functionality. and the value for money, the price, or things like that Different from Chinese and the Europeans, oh sometimes they will prioritize the beauty, aesthetics, over functionality, or value for money, things like that.
Speaker: that is the total difference from my mindset. I never realized as a Chinese before I landed on Europe, that I always just are looking for functionality.
Speaker: When I look at a product ah or brand, I look for what this brand is, whether this brand is useful for me. But when you go to Europe, they have a different mindset.
Speaker: They sometimes will just ah find the balance and the beauty in something. and sacrificing their functionality or usefulness. That is a big learning for me.
Speaker: And for those luxury brands and the primary brands, when you look at them, after i came back, I look at it with a fresh eyes because I know whether ah They are so beautiful and they just the put a provenance and the philosophy ahead of a functionality.
Speaker: They did sometimes that something need the not be appreciated for usefulness. They just therefore appreciate it because they are beautiful or something like that. So that's a big learning for me.
Speaker: So to be specific, we mentioned Europe so far, but you went to Italy where you landed first. I think you said Milano and then you went to France. What impressions did Italy leave on you?
Speaker: I just stayed in Milano for two days, but I really love this city. This city is marvelous, especially Milano. I just binge drink coffee.
Speaker: In Shanghai, I drink a coffee just the only one cup so or one glass of coffee a day. But in Milano, I increased to five cups a day. And I still keep drinking all the time because coffee there is everywhere.
Speaker: and different from Shanghai, coffee in Milano is just like like the air in your life. You breathe it. It's not an like a lifestyle you deliberately choose while you are in Shanghai, because in you Shanghai you can choose tea, you can use choose milk, tea or something else or beverage.
Speaker: But in Milano it is always coffee, the the key players in your life. It's just like the air you breathe every moment. So that is a big impression. And I really appreciate it is a high quality and the culture or there about the coffee. They treat coffee just like a something, respect, and they emerge this kind of a drink in every aspect of life. You can see that they respect the harmony and the tradition and the the order in their coffee culture. Different from Shanghai. Shanghai coffee culture is just like
Speaker: creative chaotic culture, things like that. They are unbundled from traditional heritage. There is no tradition, no heritage when it comes to youov innovation in Shanghai. so In Europe, the coffee culture is like a grandfather.
Speaker: And the in Shanghai, coffee culture is like a teenager, full of energy and the tradition, different things, but also fascinating for both cities.
Speaker: I agree. when When I worked together with Fiat in Italy, ah coffee and getting a coffee was like artistry. you You go and and you have these artisans who prepare prepare your drink for you. did Did you drink all of these five coffees per day in the cafe where you had the full experience or was or was this you know Asian style where you take out and and you run away and enjoy it someplace else?
Speaker: I drink coffee in the bakery across the street of where I lived. And I also just so drink ah the coffee in the premier coffee shop in the downtown, the luxury center of the Milano.
Speaker: I forgot that the name. That is quite long. And I put it on my weekly post. And that is a fascinating experience when I just experience the coffee culture in that premier coffee shop.
Speaker: coffee shop, but that's a premier coffee shop. They bring you sparkling water accompanied by coffee. So at the very first sight, I was shocked ah why they bring me just the alcohol because I don't know whether it is sparkling water inside. It's not alcohol, it's sparkling water.
Speaker: After he explained to me, so I just a drink it is sparkling water. They try to clarify your tasting part and give you a taste ah ah before you drink coffee. So you can better just ah have a taste of the authentic coffee they served.
Speaker: So, there are a lot of rituals and the traditions so when they serve you a cup of coffee. So, a lot of thoughts behind. Not like Shanghai when you just ah go to the coffee shop.
Speaker: They just infused with a seasonal taste like the plum taste in the summer or chrysensimus in autumn and the winter. so they so abundant of traditions a lot of innovations and ideas put in a cup of a coffee so different Oh, that's fascinating. It it truly is ah an incredible coffee culture there.
Speaker: Of course, Italy is famous also for the food. How did you find the food culture? um Before we started recording, we talked about ah the convenience of fast food versus Italian slow food.
Speaker: did Did you enjoy the the eating culture there and the Italian food? Actually, I didn't have the chance to just ah have the slow food the culture there in Milano because the bakery across where I stay serves so most the most delicious fokusha in the world.
Speaker: So I used to get my lunch there and the breakfast that there if possible. And i love the fresh baked ah slice of fokusha.
Speaker: accompanied by a fresh brewed coffee. So that is the most fascinating thing I experienced the in Milano. I do just ah try to try to go to the restaurant, but i didn't I didn't have time to do that because the bakeries across the street is a heaven.
Speaker: And I was trapped there. Well, sounds to me like you're preparing yourself for another trip so you can explore the other restaurants next time. definite andly Definitely. Definitely. You are absolutely right.
Speaker: How about the customers? um You know, there's... there's yeah I live in Thailand and there's a ah rhythm here, how people go to get their matcha tea or their coffee and and and you get it, you put it in a paper cup, plastic cup, you hang it in your little plastic bag carrier and you and you run off to the office or to meet your friends.
Speaker: um But in ah in Europe, it's a little bit different. I think people, ah they sit, they relax, they talk. did Did you find that when you were sitting in this cafe several times, the the behavior the customers?
Speaker: ah Different, that's different. you yeah I want to just mention this. In Shanghai, and the coffee culture is just like a lifestyle. People love to sit and severe their cafe cafe in the coffee shop.
Speaker: But while in Milano, they get used to drinking their coffee very quickly standing on the counter. It is just ah ah before they rush into something important in life.
Speaker: They just drink it very quickly in five seconds or maybe 10 seconds. Then they just run away. Different from Shanghai because they drink coffee like water.
Speaker: or something, just brush my teeth or something. I can't. So that is an impression I got ah from Milano. Maybe different from France because I also visited the France.
Speaker: France is this slower to drink coffee than Italians, especially when it comes to the breakfast or something like that. they But they also share the same rituals. They love to stand ah to drink their coffee instead of sit down and find table and they enjoy but breakfast like a Shanghainese do here.
Speaker: Now, clearly that made the coffee culture made a big impression on you. Does that mean that you are now seeking out Italian and French cafes in Shanghai? Actually, when you are in Shanghai, you are hooked by those ah innovative ideas and innovations.
Speaker: in Shanghai coffee shop, as I mentioned, they're always hooked by the new flavors they put in a cup of a coffee, which you cannot find in Milan or Paris, because they respect their tradition too much.
Speaker: But think for Chinese, ah anything can be recreated or reinvented, especially it comes to a beverage which is foreign to Chinese, like a coffee.
Speaker: Now, you clearly you spent a lot of time in in bakeries. You drank a lot of coffee. Probably you still have some of the caffeine ah in in your system from a few weeks ago um based on the quantity.
Speaker: But... ah Let's talk a little bit about technology, too, because when we spoke last time on the podcast, we talked about electric vehicles and and how they were quite advanced.
Speaker: The Chinese electric vehicles were advanced on technology versus the imported ones. What was your impression about technology when you went to Europe? China is very technology oriented.
Speaker: How is Europe?
Speaker: That is a big surprise. That is the biggest discovery in Europe when I just landed in Europe and France and Milan both. And actually ah before I just ah went to Europe, I saw to your Europe countries, and the east especially France and Italy are quite advanced.
Speaker: But when I just landed there, I just so find that that I was transported ah to the past. the history about it it was like a ah in terms of a technology, France and the Italy were like are just like ah China to 10 or 20 years ago in terms of a technology or advancement. ah Compared to European countries, China is a much, much advanced ah ah
Speaker: society in digitalization and technology use. And the for china for Chinese, they are getting used to the convenience brought by the technology. they they They might feel much uncomfortable when they landed ah in Europe.
Speaker: They cannot use the super apps like WeChat or or RedNote or some convenience brought by technology, the apps.
Speaker: the everything, mini programs or things like that. So that is a big finding. I never expected Europe ah are living in the past ah while China is living in the future.
Speaker: So that is the biggest surprise I got when I landed in Europe. And very they're they are the two sides of a one coin. I think That is good for the Europe but because so before they adopt the new technology, they post and think and the choose smartly what is the best for them.
Speaker: But for China, they don't have this mindset. People jump to the newest technology and embrace them without any thoughts. So they are so impatient. They want to embrace the future.
Speaker: So I think Chinese and especially Chinese should learn something from Europe but to choose smartly what is best of for their life.
Speaker: Because a lot of a technology makes you anxious and the you are running just like ah because I'm a Chinese. When I just landed in Europe, I was so anxious about one thing,
Speaker: That what happened if my battery is running out. So I always charge my mobile phones, which makes me so anxious. But while you look at the Europeans, they just are so comfortable without many batteries. They don't care about how much batteries on their mobile or something like that.
Speaker: So I think that is a good thing for Chinese to learn from their European kind counterparts. Is there any example where you know normally at home in Shanghai, you would reach for your phone and do something?
Speaker: and and you found Did you find yourself in a situation where you really missed this convenience, like like payments, making a payment or or anything else?
Speaker: yeah In Shanghai at home it's okay because you can always charge your battery and that's okay. But when you're outside of home, you need to charge your of mobile phones all the time.
Speaker: I will feel ah anxious when the battery is the 30% left or something like that. I will charge it to immediately because you have to use the ah mobile phone to to to search for the apps and look at the apps and the pay with your mobile. And when you go to the transportation, public transportation, you use a mobile phone tool to pay your fare or something like that. so You cannot live without a mobile any moment when you're outside the home in Shanghai. But in Europe, people are quite comfortable.
Speaker: They don't care about how much batteries left on their mobile. So that is ah a lifestyle I admire and envy because they don't live on their smartphones. They can have have more time to enjoy their life.
Speaker: ah So that ah is an attitude two that I quite appreciate. Now, that's a big difference. That's a big difference in mindset and and how you how you use this this tool that that that you have. Very very different approach to to using this.
Speaker: Yes, definitely. Now, you are a a branding strategist, marketing strategist, and and you look at future trends.
Speaker: um I know this wasn't a business trip for you. is really for pleasure. But what you did see, um how did you perceive the brands that you've looked at to be to be different?
Speaker: you know Now that you saw them in their home environment, you know how how did you rediscover those brands and then understand what they really mean? ah I think ah for those brands, ah as I just ah said earlier and shared it with you, I think they just put something more about their understanding of a slow life and the aesthetics.
Speaker: their art life ah a header over ah ahead of functionality. In China, people are so pragmatic.
Speaker: They always obsess though of the youthfulness in terms of their education choice for their kids, to career choice.
Speaker: to everything they choose in their life. They only think about the usefulness. But to for yeah for Europe, the brand or something don't need to be useful all the time.
Speaker: So when you ah create a brand or build a brand, you need to think about differently. how to make people happy or support someone emotionally rather only focus on functionality.
Speaker: And I think PopMart learned a lot from the emotional economy. I don't know whether they have learned from European philosophy or something like that.
Speaker: but they definitely know sometimes the usefulness, useless sometimes is the best the economy they got.
Speaker: So I think there is a big learning for Chinese brand and to learn from European brand. and Sometimes you don't have to just the think about the usefulness of functionality.
Speaker: How can how my brand you be useful in life? maybe they should learn from european brands sometimes they should emphasize art is everything beauty is everything aesthetic is pray it should be prioritized rather than functionality so that that is the thing that the chinese brand that can learn Was there any brand that you happened to see that that you're familiar with in China that was was different, that you perceived as being different in their in their home country?
Speaker: or Or are they quite consistent in in their approach in in China as well? Actually, I didn't just spend much time shopping and looking around those commercial signs of in Europe, or not especially yeah in in France and the Paris.
Speaker: But I do spot a very interesting trend. I think a European is much more advanced than Chinese. and the China in this aspect is a circular ah economy. they ah There are a lot of vintage shops, second-hand stores, and the people found the used stuff is different from China. People just only jump to the newest technology. They jump to the newest things.
Speaker: they they They don't have the mindset of the yeah to use the second-handed, to appreciate the second-handed fashion or something like that. But in Europe, they are just as so advanced in this for environmental concern or sustainability or just ah ah ah to save money or something like that. They are so advanced for those brands so wechi can which are just the
Speaker: thrive on sustainability or circular economy ah different from China. and that's that That certainly is different. So it it sounds that there's a common theme that's running through the conversation, which which is this appreciation of of life um from the coffee culture,
Speaker: to the use of technology or using less technology perhaps in in Europe, that that it it's less intrusive and into your life. um and And then fashion and products, appreciating them for their beauty, not necessarily appreciating them for their functionality. is It's an interesting perspective that that you bring.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah. I do think that to Europeans really appreciate their personal space and appreciate their personal time.
Speaker: they They put the time and at the first place, they want person person interaction. They appreciate that to the ah face-to-face meeting rather than digitalization or un online chatting or un online games.
Speaker: So, and the one thing I must emphasize, I really admire it is a highly sophisticated and civilized society.
Speaker: Unlike Chinese, Chinese swipe the phones everywhere they go in metro, in public transport, but they will just bring out the book and the read quietly.
Speaker: when they are in the metro sitting there. So I really owe admire that. And I wish more and more Chinese can pick up the magazines or printed books to read in the metro instead of us sweeping on their phones all the time.
Speaker: So ah I really appreciate that. I have the same here in in Thailand. my wife and I, we we refer to people on the street and in the metro as as phone zombies ah because they walk very slowly on the sidewalk and their face is glued into the screen of their phone and they don't notice that other people are trying to get around them and pass them.
Speaker: Yes, are like zombies. And they like the ghost working in the streets, they don't care, he especially in Shanghai. They even just to put their eyes to the mobile phones so while they are bicycling.
Speaker: You need to be really careful. They can rush into you immediately.
Speaker: So as we kind of get towards the end of of the conversation about Europe, I have to ask, what were... the, let's say, top three surprises, if you just list top three surprises, either good or bad, that you found in Europe?
Speaker: The first thing I have to mention is that I never expected that ah Europeans, especially French french people and the Italians, never speak English.
Speaker: I never expected that. Before I just ah jump on the Europe, i assume people speak English as i do while I travel outside of China.
Speaker: But they are so reluctant to speak English to you. So you have to make an effort to to just the have a conversation with them. yeah And then sometimes you have to use a Google translator to have a conversation with them.
Speaker: So that is the first thing I was unexpected. The second thing is that ah the architecture In Shanghai, you can see a lot of modern architectures, future forward thinking architectures ah in the downtown of Shanghai. But while in Europe, everywhere you go, you just see historic buildings. You can not see the modern buildings or architectures in the downtown.
Speaker: different from from from China. And the third thing is that i never see see
Speaker: I've never seen a European use a power bank, the portable battery, like I do when well i I just ah was in Europe. just I was wondering why people don't use a power bank.
Speaker: So at the first time, because I'm the only one to use it and I charge my mobile all the time. So afterwards, I understand that they don't need to.
Speaker: because they don't worry about how much batteries left on their mobile phones. So I really appreciate.
Speaker: that's that's That's great, actually. i I do know that when I leave the my home for the entire day, I tend to take a power bank with me also. Yes. Now, also, we had a few weeks ago, we had a conversation ah about Pop Mart, and you mentioned it a few moments ago.
Speaker: ah Did you find any labubus on the street in Europe? Actually, I don't see any labubus on the street, but I do spot Pop Mart in a very centered place in the downtown of Paris.
Speaker: I was surprised that they got a very good and location in Paris for Popmart, a Chinese brand. And I do see Xiaomi, the technology company in Paris and the Milano as well.
Speaker: So surprise. And they also just found that maybe the technology product that like Xiaomi is price for money and a very ah very high technology yeah and a price affordable technology. So I was surprised to just ah realize that
Speaker: that. That's fascinating that but that you discovered these. I really was curious if you if you found or discovered any any ah Chinese brands while you were over there. um Now, that's over in Europe.
Speaker: I think my last... question for you is, what did you bring back? And I don't mean physical goods. But what what did you bring back from Europe that might influence how you do your work now with branding strategy? Is there anything that that touched you that you brought back and will influence you?
Speaker: Yes, the as I just said, ah the most ah important enlightenment for me from this European trip is that ah ah for a brand, I learned, you don't need to always prioritize functionality at the first place.
Speaker: It is not that important. ah well Just it's a big learning and enhance my knowledge, past knowledge and the experience about the branding.
Speaker: Sometimes and most of the times, how to invoke as the emotion beyond functionality, that's more important.
Speaker: to create a brand that truly resonates with you and your lifestyle.
Speaker: and And do you think from your capacity in forecasting culture trends, do you see that the Chinese culture might evolve in that direction to appreciate more the beauty than the functionality?
Speaker: Yes, as I just said, Popmart used the emotional economy. They said, you know, to an extent they launched La Bubu and a lot of toys blend books to evoke emotional surprise and expectations.
Speaker: That would have become a trend for the Chinese brands to follow. They will learn that usefulness sometimes is a best to create an emotional brand.
Speaker: So I think we we we can learn from Europe and that we can learn from their art of living, some philosophy or things like that.
Speaker: How to elevate aesthetics of a brand to a high level ah and the respect of the heritage and the tradition, which most of the Chinese people do not share this insight.
Speaker: Okay, now that's certainly a different way of of of looking at at products and at brands. And it'll be interesting to see how that influences your work and your writings as you as you go forward.
Speaker: Actually, I have just the published the two weekly posts about my a observations in Europe. One is about the culture, coffee culture in Milan, which is compared to two Shanghai.
Speaker: And the other is how to find authentic French food ah you France, outside of a Paris. If you are interested, you can just ah take a look and see share your comments and thoughts.
Speaker: That would be appreciated. I will make sure to drop the links for both of those ah into the podcast comments so the listeners can and look down below and click and find your articles.
Speaker: Thank you so much. yeah You're welcome. Is there any last parting words that do you wanted to share before we close down the episode? ah For Europe, I think I will just revisit many times afterwards. Badi is a fascinating place and it just gives me a lot of inspirations and teaches me a lot from different angles and the perspectives.
Speaker: I will definitely visit Europe ah soon. I hope ah we next a year or maybe 2027. seven I'd love to hear your perspective on um going to Europe for the first time.
Speaker: In the Western press, you you hear a lot of impressions of people going to China, um but you almost never hear the other direction. So this is, I think, really fascinating and and will be an eye opener for people who are listening in in Europe or or other parts of of the Americas.
Speaker: Thank you. Great. Well, thank you, Grace, for joining again. It's it's great to hear your your travel report. Thank you for having me, John, as always.
Speaker: Fantastic. With that, I'll wind down the episode. I want to thank the listeners for joining again this week. I hope you found this conversation as interesting as I did. Stay tuned for next week. We'll have another guest on.
Speaker: With that, keep on driving. Thank you for joining us on today's journey. Please remember to like and subscribe to The Auto Ethnographer and leave us a rating or comment.
Speaker: For more information, visit our website at auto-ethnographer.com. You can also follow on Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn.
