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EP 29: Philipp Schiemer - CEO in Motion: Brazil, Germany, and the Mercedes-AMG Dream
50 Plays1 month ago
Philipp Schiemer is equally comfortable leading a dealer meeting at Mercedes-Benz Brasil or driving a cutting-edge performance car around the track at Mercedes-AMG. And it’s no wonder because he has been CEO of both companies.
This week’s Auto Ethnographer podcast, with host John Stech, features Philipp Schiemer, a highly adaptable German automotive executive. Philipp spent a combined twenty years in Brazil over the course of three separate work assignments, the final 7-year stint as CEO of Mercedes-Benz Brasil.
With a base in the Spanish language, Philipp quickly mastered Portuguese, a skill that would allow him to connect to employees and business partners alike. Beyond the language, Philipp understood the nuances of the Brazilian culture – taking decisions, negotiations, time culture, and the importance of selecting a futbol team!
Over the course of his three assignments in Brazil, he faced numerous challenges from economic turbulence to the carveout of Chrysler from the DaimlerChrysler organization to the implementation of strict compliance rules (driven by Sarbanes-Oxley) on a continent that was known for questionable adherence to corruption rules. Each challenge brought learnings.
The final pinnacle of Philipp’s career, prior to recent retirement, was to sit at the helm of the legendary Mercedes-AMG GmbH. This vaunted producer of high-performance cars for road and track demanded a fast-moving, decisive, and flexible leader. His experience in Brazil had trained Philipp well for this role and he excelled in the role despite starting the job at the peak of Covid shutdowns.
Join us today in the discussion and learn some insights on what it takes to lead in Brazil and what it means to lead one of the most aspired-to automotive brands in the world.
For additional information on The Auto Ethnographer, visit the homepage at https://www.Auto-ethnographer.com
Follow the channel on Youtube here.
Get your daily dose of unusual cars in unusual places on Instagram or Facebook.
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Transcript
Introduction to Culture and Automotive Industry
00:00:00
Speaker
In Brazil, you had it's not important what kind of religion you are, ah but it's important what kind of football team you are supporting and the Samba school you are supporting. These are the two two two important things.
00:00:13
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Auto Ethnographer. I'm John Steck, your host on this journey. We travel the globe to bring you stories about culture and the global automotive industry. Fasten your seat belt and let's get started.
00:00:26
Speaker
Hello and welcome to this week's episode of the Autoethnographer.
Philip Schemer's Background and Influence
00:00:30
Speaker
Today's guest is a seasoned automotive executive whose career has spanned continents, brands and decades, but whose heart, it seems, has always had a bit of a Brazilian beat.
00:00:42
Speaker
Philip Schemer, a native German, began his journey with Daimler Benz, now Mercedes Benz, in 1987, rising through the ranks in Germany before embarking not on one, not on two, but on three major stints in Brazil.
00:00:57
Speaker
Over the course of more than 20 years there, he helped shape Mercedes Benz's footprint in Latin America, navigating everything from product launches to economic turbulence with a steady hand and a strategic eye.
00:01:09
Speaker
Most notably, he served as the CEO of Mercedes-Benz do Brazil from 2013 to 2020, overseeing passenger car, truck, and bus operations during a period of intense transformation.
00:01:23
Speaker
Later, he would come back to Germany to lead Mercedes-AMG globally for a Falterbach. Philip's career reflects a rare blend of intercultural fluency and industrial vision.
00:01:34
Speaker
And today we'll dive into the stories behind those decades, what it meant to lead through Brazil's booms and busts and how Mercedes Benz recalibrated its presence in one of the world's most complex automotive landscapes.
00:01:48
Speaker
Philip, welcome to the podcast. Welcome, John. It's a pleasure to be part of your ah your podcast and I'm really excited to talk about the history. ah ah It's a bit our history because we worked together, I think, 30 years from now.
00:02:06
Speaker
from from From now, ah much, much younger, but I think the shape is more less the same. So it's it's
Impact of Brazilian Culture on Schemer's Career
00:02:15
Speaker
ah really a pleasure. And yeah, I think the automotive industry is a very exciting and industry.
00:02:22
Speaker
And working in Brazil or with Latin America, also work with other continents, is always giving a special flavor to your career. So it's ah I'm really excited to talk a little bit about it.
00:02:36
Speaker
No, that's great. And I think because you spend so much of your career in Brazil, I think that's going to be really the the main focus of our of our conversation today. So out of curiosity, 20 years in Brazil is a long time and you went there three separate times.
00:02:51
Speaker
What kept pulling you back? Actually, it was never. This was not a strategic plan. it was ah it was more It was more or less by coincidence. when i When I first went to Brazil in 1991, I studied at a corporate university of Mercedes-Benz, mostly in Stuttgart, and I missed the experience of
Economic Challenges and Adaptation in Brazil
00:03:17
Speaker
studying abroad. and i had ah At ah that time, I was thinking, oh i maybe I leave the company, I do an MBA.
00:03:24
Speaker
somewhere somewhere, and then ah all of a sudden there was a ah proposal to go to to to to Brazil or Argentina at the time. And actually i spoke Spanish and I said, look, I want to learn something different. I knew nothing about Brazil. I knew a little bit Pelé, football, but nothing more.
00:03:44
Speaker
And then I said, well, then I go to Brazil. And so I arrived in Brazil more or less, yeah, It was a coincidence, if you want so. and ah But from the beginning, I like the country.
00:04:00
Speaker
It its was a totally different from Germany. You know, Sao Paulo at the time still already had 20 million of inhabitants, very large.
00:04:10
Speaker
ah We had an inflation of 40 percent a year, month. I could not imagine that this work and my ah to my surprise it worked, the life was normal.
00:04:22
Speaker
And so I was this this this it's nervous situation, this this kind of everything you learn something new, this was exciting for me. And so i I love the country and I stayed there for seven years at that time.
00:04:38
Speaker
Then I wanted to to come back because I thought that my time at that moment in Brazil was coming to an end. So I went back to ah to Germany and also to do some networking, you know, in a global company, you need the networking.
00:04:53
Speaker
You need to get home base sometimes. If not, you lose so so much, let's say, the connections and also the knowledge. And I was there for then in Germany for for several years, very good times also. And then ah former colleague was elected president of Brazil.
00:05:12
Speaker
And he asked me if i if I don't want to join him there as then as sales vice president. And for me, this was wow. This was my dream job.
00:05:23
Speaker
Because when I started there the first time I was assistant of the sales vice president. And I said once to be the sales vice president would be would be great. I went there a second time, it was a very exciting time also because it was the beginning of compliance in the big organizations, you know, and Brazil was one of the main focuses yeah because of many of the, let's say, that the fame of the country and all things of stuff. And so we we passed really through some some hard times.
00:05:54
Speaker
ah Very interesting, on the other side we had an unexpected, unexpected boom in Brazil, so we were selling like hell. At that time, maybe you remember, we had to, we yeah we carved out of Chrysler, there was a Chrysler separation from the Chrysler company.
00:06:12
Speaker
I had to do this thing in Latin America, was very difficult, every country, because Brazil is one part, but I was responsible for all Latin America. So exciting to do this in Venezuela, things like that.
00:06:25
Speaker
It was really yeah a lot of adventures. ah At this time, actually, I thought maybe I would have the chance to be president there after a time, but it didn't work out. Then I went back to Germany once again.
00:06:39
Speaker
And then ah four years later, Brazil entered into a crisis and then they were looking for somebody who knew the country, who knew the situation. And then they asked me once again, my wife actually wanted to kill me more more or less, but then ah because we had also young children. But then we accepted once again and I was there seven years as as a president.
00:07:02
Speaker
Very exciting time, very tough times economically wise, trust price just crisis, just crisis. But on the other side, very, very exciting times. always We did a lot of transformation of the company and recovered the company yeah in ah and ah put it in a good shape. It was a hard work, ah hard times. But yeah, so it's so and so the time passed. ah If you ask me 20 years, I say, wow, it's impossible. But actually, yeah, it it has been 20 years.
00:07:34
Speaker
That's amazing. And just a to point out, while you were doing the so-called carve-out from Mercedes-Benz and Chrysler in Brazil, I was doing exactly the same in Egypt, separating the two companies in Egypt. And then I kind of finished the job in Moscow, where I finished separation.
00:07:52
Speaker
So also also challenging markets from that compliance perspective that you mentioned a few moments ago. Yeah, i say exactly. it was ah This was really, there were some nights without sleep.
00:08:06
Speaker
and And we had the one case in Venezuela because in Venezuela the company was owned by Chrysler. So it was the only company in the world where, let's say, we carved out out of a Chrysler company.
00:08:20
Speaker
And so this was... a two Two places, actually. Two places. There was another place, okay. Yeah, Egypt, actually, where I was. It started as a Chrysler company and kind of separated again in the end.
00:08:34
Speaker
Yeah, it was really yeah funny. But at the end, it worked out. It was was good. Now, it's amazing to to go through this. But let let's turn back the the clock for just a moment. I mean, your first impression, you spoke a little bit about it when you landed there.
00:08:50
Speaker
but But your first impression landing, you know you had this you had this inflation. How did you even deal with that as ah as an individual living there? um I mean, salary would have to obviously be adjusted almost on a weekly basis if the inflation is like this.
00:09:05
Speaker
Actually, actually to to be honest, it's not so difficult as it seems, at least in in Brazil. ah First of all, the most important thing thing is you have to have a bank account and and things like that.
00:09:19
Speaker
and this is what normally poor people don't have. Therefore poor people mostly suffer. So if you have a bank account there was a kind of over overnight deposit so you get interest per day not per month per day.
00:09:32
Speaker
And this interest rate actually is always a little bit higher than than than inflation. So actually one of the learners is if you have money with inflation you will get richer at the end because normally if you have ah and you have solid banks for sure you have don't have it cannot be a country where the banks are not solid Brazil fortunately they have solid banks so then so you have to apply your money every day you cannot still let it stayed on your normal account without interest you have to apply it every every day this is one very important thing the second thing is for the poor people or for normal people what what in Brazil was
00:10:13
Speaker
ah was was was normal and I was really astonished. They had huge supermarkets. I didn't never understand why they have so huge supermarkets with, and let's say, at this time, this was 1991, 30 cash boxes, 40 cash boxes. I did not understand it really, but it was always like that. When the people get the money,
00:10:32
Speaker
They went directly to the supermarket and bought everything. Because then you on the next day it would be more expensive. So, but especially for the poor people, you had to spend your money at the at um at the moment. yeah and And so the system actually, worked.
00:10:49
Speaker
And as you as you mentioned, with 30% month, we had a ah new currency every six months. Because after a while ah we started with, let's say, one Cruzeiro real was one dollar.
00:11:04
Speaker
After six months, one Cruzeiro real or one dollar was 100,000 Cruzeiro real. So, and after more six months was one million. oh And so you had to change your currency all of the time.
00:11:18
Speaker
It was also very funny. So we did this every six months. And when I was coming back in to Germany, ah there was the euro. conversation of the local currency in in Germany, the mark to euro.
00:11:31
Speaker
And we had a project team, I think three ah three years in advance and everybody was worried. How should this work to change the currency? I was wondering because in Brazil we did this every six months.
00:11:42
Speaker
And we didn't have any project group. yeah so and yeah So it was a and good experience to see that it it was working. For sure for the country it is bad. ah So i inflation is the worst thing for a country, what what could could happen. but If you are you know let's say in a wealthy or good position with money on a bank account, then you can earn money.
00:12:09
Speaker
One thing you ah you learn also, if somebody has ah has to borrow money from from the bank in know inflation, he's he's lost. a company without cash in in inflation countries is lost right because he he will never pay the interest rates over over the over the circle. is It's not not possible. yeah So a lot of learnings. It was very interesting really to see ah how it worked. And the people adapt. It's the funny thing. and You know, the restaurants, they change prices every day.
00:12:41
Speaker
and It's not it's not nothing nothing nothing special. They would say it was normal. yeah And also amazing was how then they they could, let's say, they could stop the inflation, this circle.
00:12:55
Speaker
This was after, I think, probably after 10 economic plans. Then they really, they made something very special. And from one day to the other, it stopped inflation. And since then, inflation is more or less under control. It's not like US or Europe is 2%, 3%. They still have 7, 8%. But 7, 8% a year is nothing compared to 4 diamants.
00:13:16
Speaker
but seven eight a year is nothing compared to failures But I think you you struck at the at the heart of something there, but which is the flexibility and the adaptability of the people in Brazil.
00:13:28
Speaker
but In Germany, this would be utter panic. but This is like 1920s Germany when when the you had the massive inflation, the hyperinflation.
00:13:40
Speaker
But you know in Germany, you had a project team, you said, to ah in the company to change vo yeah to to change to ah to the euro from the Deutsche Mark. And and yet in Brazil, it's just a, I hate to say it, but it's normal.
00:13:55
Speaker
it what but It was absolutely normal. Yeah, and also, you know, you learn something about the behavior of the people. So ah in inflation countries, whenever the people feel that there would be a devaluation or something like that, this was never announced, not because with inflation, they also have to change the exchange rate. ah That time it was more or less controlled. to Today it's free floating, but at the time was controlled.
00:14:21
Speaker
And the people, they smelled and the there's a devaluation. Then they were buying everything. This is a moment where it this you can sell everything because people they don't want to have money then then they want to have goods, so they buy cars, trucks, they buy everything. yeah so it's a ah To do predictions in this kind of country is very difficult because ah
Understanding Brazilian Business Culture
00:14:45
Speaker
if there is something like this happening, this changes all you are your forecasts.
00:14:50
Speaker
I experienced something very similar, both in in Egypt, but especially in Russia during the global financial crisis, when suddenly all of the money came out of the mattresses and people were buying cars and refrigerators and stereo systems and TVs.
00:15:06
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was really ah funny. At the beginning also, ah Brazil at that time was a closed market, so it was very, and it was actually, yeah, ah had very little ah interaction with with foreign countries, so everybody, everything should be produced in the country, so many things were very outdated, old computers, old old systems.
00:15:30
Speaker
And when I arrived there, the beginning, for example, telephone line was investment. I was not understanding that as I was once invited to a wedding and the the the gift of the for for the couple was to wait to telephone lines.
00:15:47
Speaker
and I didn't understand it and i said, no because it's a huge investment because they will rent or they will sell the telephone lines and the people will pay a lot because they are not enough telephone lines available.
00:15:59
Speaker
So it was was ah really funny things. This changed completely over over the over the time, but i was really ah amazing. and so So tell me, when you arrived, I mean, obviously you you were German and and and much of this was a complete shock to you, you know, the the reaction to to this type of situation in the market.
00:16:24
Speaker
what What adjustments did you have to make personally to somehow adapt yourself to these circumstances?
00:16:33
Speaker
yeah Yeah, first first of all, i what I... what i I think very important and you also know that if you come to a country ah totally different from yours, I think the the first thing is very important to try to understand and not to judge. So try to understand how how the people are living.
00:16:53
Speaker
So I think very important is to talk to the people to to ask them how this is working, how would you do that. And I think this is a this is a very important ah step if you want to have success afterwards in ah in ah you ah in ah in ah in a different culture. yeah So you have to really try to to to dig into the country to understand why it's working like that.
00:17:19
Speaker
Once again, not judging whether this is better or worse than what you're used to, but try to understand and then you have to adapt to it that and you have to live like that. And I think this was so for me in the beginning, I was a young fellow at that time, 27 years, very curious and this is was also quite easy in Brazil, very easy to make friends. yeah So you you can talk to the people, people are very open.
00:17:47
Speaker
to talk to you and then you learn it yeah and then you have to try it. And then when it's working, you get some confidence. yeah Now, this is also indicative of your ability to just open your eyes and and and to understand that a different culture works works differently.
00:18:07
Speaker
How did that translate itself, for example, into into decision making? Right. First, you were there when you were younger. So you were probably getting the decisions not to necessarily making them that was that became part of your role later but but how was the decision making different in brazil than what you would have experienced in germany i was ah In the beginning I was the assistant of the sales vice president so I had the opportunity to join meetings and there observing the people how they interacted you understand a little bit that it's different so for example in Brazil it's ah it's not
00:18:49
Speaker
ah It's not usual normally or you try not to blame your opponent. opponents so Some things you have to dig very deep to understand whether whether there's a problem or not. you're not If somebody tells you everything is good, you should not believe it at first glance.
00:19:08
Speaker
You have to really to dig deep in um in ah in a quiet, try to make this in a smooth manner. ah So this is this is, I think, very important. In in in in Brazil, but what I learned is people are it's very easy to motivate people.
00:19:26
Speaker
It's very easy to motivate, to do so to try something new. People are very much engaged in ah in something. The difficult thing is effort to to make this consistent working because people are very, let's say, quickly excited, but also if they are the first obstacles, sometimes they lose very early the the the resistance.
00:19:50
Speaker
hu And then they don't want want to they don't want to bring the problems to the top, they want to hide the problem. So this is something I think you have to learn and you have to interact.
00:20:06
Speaker
At the end also what what is very different from ah from from from Europe is in in Brazil you have always in every relation you do, you have first talk to the people, then afterwards talk about the business issue. yeah So, if you if you have a good relationship with your partners, you can do mostly everything.
00:20:30
Speaker
if you If you blame your business partners or don't let them in a good mood or be too reserved, it's very difficult.
00:20:42
Speaker
it's It's very difficult. ah And so you have you have all space. and As a German, sometimes we are nervous. We want to have the things fast. Sometimes you have to slow down.
00:20:53
Speaker
on the other side, if somebody If you have the confidence of somebody, you can get nearly everything. yeah So there will be no limit. There is no hour, there is no right effort which is which is tough enough, the people who do for you.
00:21:10
Speaker
But ah it's very important you have to have this relation, you have to listen to the people to get to give them the feeling that they are, let's say, that you talk on one on one level to them and that you trust them. yeah This must not be so easy because historically, let's say 30 years ago when you when you were there the first time,
00:21:31
Speaker
I mean, in Germany, there's typically this this wall between the home and the office and and the personal self. Right. You don't really make friend relationships in the office so much. um I mean, you can probably go for your entire career and some people you always call you know Mr. Schmidt as opposed to the first name. Right.
00:21:52
Speaker
how How was that to to change and to open up and to have to start with the personal side before getting down to business? I mean, in guinea it's also in Brazil, it's also you have this hierarchical things and ah yeah sometimes sometimes maybe the Brazilians, if they reach some high levels in in you in in international companies, even they are maybe sometimes more German than than we are.
00:22:22
Speaker
um On the other side, I think this was for me ah always, ah ah let's say, part of the success. ah I always, in in many situations, for me it was the first time i was i had some ah ideas but actually I was not experienced. So I needed the help of the people.
00:22:42
Speaker
So there was was no other way for me to to to open it up. and i I understood in the beginning that if I give somebody to them, they will give it back to me. So, so yeah then you talk and actually it was always it's always funny also. I remember very well, we tried to sell some vans to a big customer and he had not bought Mercedes for 15 years more or less. yeah And I was visiting him and he's a very very ah rich, famous, ah one of the biggest fleets in Brazil, South America. And we were sitting together and just me too. And we were talking, I think, one hour about everything but business.
00:23:29
Speaker
about the family, about the business, about how it was the weekend and about how was this and how was that. And then after one hour and one hour and and a quarter, then I think we closed the deal in five minutes because we had such a good ah such your bo but talk and he but not that I earned it was afterwards still a tough day negotiation, but he said, look I felt I like this guy, this is good, i can call him, I know if if if I have a problem I will call him and he will attend me. yeah so and and this is this is This is important. yeah
00:24:07
Speaker
I'm sure the first few times it's difficult not to you know tap your foot or or tap your hand on the desk while you're while you're waiting for things to move forward. exactly exactly Exactly. It's like that. exactly You have to know if you if you start a meeting, first you have to tell something about how was the weekend, how was the football match yesterday evening, how was the but dinner, how was I don't know what, and then we get started.
00:24:34
Speaker
It's not like in Germany where a meeting starts five o'clock and then ah morning and then let's go. So it's a it's it's it's it's it's different. yeah ah Very different.
00:24:47
Speaker
I want to come back to something you said a little a few moments ago. you you The way that you would address problems and and kind of looking for problems.
00:24:58
Speaker
Is that similar to the kind of the Asian concept of face where where people didn't want to lose face in front of the group? well how would you how would you handle How would you handle those kinds of, ah let's say discipline issues? If there was a problem, did you have to go into a separate room with somebody not in front of the whole group?
00:25:21
Speaker
ah Did you have to say things in a very indirect way or or could you use that, let's say German directness? Actually, for sure you can use the German directness, but I think it's ah always try to be polite with the people. I think this is very very important because if you do the German directness, for sure the people that will attend. to ah But your relationship will have a problem later on.
00:25:51
Speaker
So you can have the, you you will get what you want now, but you don't know what will happen tomorrow. or So it's it's much it's much easier if you feel there's something. I always try to have then the personal relationship.
00:26:06
Speaker
face to face, we both together, then I come to you and then we talk and then they normally the things are getting settled. yeah and And also very very, I think for me always very important was and ah to talk to to many people. yeah So also to have always not just to have the to contact to your direct rep reports, but also to the base, always to get to have a knowledge so that the people know that normally they cannot tell you something because they know that you have somebody else who can tell you if there's there's a problem. and And I think this created at the end a really a ah very good, let's say, relationship. On the other side also, I think if you even feel somebody that somebody is abusing
00:26:57
Speaker
this, let's say, good willingness, then you also have to be strict because but I think this is all everywhere. yeah Then you have to be strict and say, look, look ah once more and then we stop this. yeah It sounds like you had ah ah trust in people, but that you still had a type of a verification system just to make sure that ah that what you were getting was was the actual facts.
00:27:22
Speaker
For sure. and I think this is ah you have to you have to have this said everywhere. ah Exactly, exactly. What did what did you find? ah I can't talk about, you know, German-Brazilian culture without talking about pünktlichkeit or ah punctuality.
00:27:41
Speaker
um I visited Brazil quite often between 2015 to 2019 when I was responsible for the region ah for Volvo. um And I found, actually, I found that...
00:27:54
Speaker
you know, punctuality was not so much of an issue, at least not in the organization that I was responsible for. Did you find the same? Let's say it improved a lot. yeah So ah and when when i when I arrived, actually but in Sao Paulo where I lived, which is the biggest industrial city, so it was never such a kind of a problem. But ah you had some experience more in the private sector. So, for example, you you ah You make a dinner at
Negotiation Strategies and Leadership in Brazil
00:28:25
Speaker
home and then you invite the people at at seven o'clock and then the first arrives at nine. yeah
00:28:30
Speaker
so But this changed over the years. Today, I think today it's it's easy. I think ah nobody would care about half an hour. So if you invite somebody but somebody at nine, and they would come 9.30. I think and you have to calculate with with this, but not more.
00:28:46
Speaker
on On the business side, actually, people are quite punctual. punctual, they have discipline, but it's not the 100%. In Germany, if you start a meeting, you know, at 10 o'clock at 9.55, everybody's in the office and 10 o'clock it's it starts. in In Brazil, if it starts 10 o'clock, 10 o'clock everybody nearly arrived, 10.05, everybody is there and then we start 10.10.
00:29:15
Speaker
But nobody would be there at 9.55.
00:29:18
Speaker
No, no, for sure not. For sure not. I mean, I was raised in a German household where if you were five minutes early, you were already late. Exactly. Exactly. But it's ah actually so it and it improved over the years also with in the international company and more and even more now with this video conference and things like that. You have to be and and the people are. It's not it's not like that.
00:29:47
Speaker
Exactly. Certainly there must have been disagreements in the company or with your ah various business partners, let's say large customers or or the dealers, for example.
00:30:00
Speaker
how How do you handle conflict in Brazil? And how do you find that to be different than in Germany? I know in Germany you have you're you're very rational, right? you You put together a rational argument and all of your points and you put them on the table and you have the discussion.
00:30:16
Speaker
How does that work in Brazil? Once again, at the end, the the arguments are still, let's say, that they are important. that The issue is how how you how you you you bring the arguments. If you talk to to dealers, normally what you try to try to do that before you go into a big dealer meeting that you have with the most important stakeholder that you have private conversations and you talk talk in advance. yeah So that actually, if you go into a big meeting that you have the result already
00:30:49
Speaker
it's all already more or less worked out. yeah ah So the the preparation is is is is quite quite important. In a big ah room with different kind of interest parties there is very difficult. So you have to make this outside the room in in private conversations. We had very tough discussions with ah these unions for example. We had to dismiss at my time last time a lot of people in in Brazil. So very tough discussions with unions, with government and things like that.
00:31:22
Speaker
And we had the official, the big meetings, but actually the most important things were besides those meetings in in private conversations and And also, yeah, ah sometimes, but this is I think also, it's not so different from from Germany, and maybe sometimes you have to you give you have to give a little finger to to to get something back.
00:31:46
Speaker
I think so, so the give and take principle, I think maybe in Brazil is more important than then in then in Germany. so You have to let the other side win also. It just it cannot be just one.
00:32:00
Speaker
Somebody is winning. You have to give something something to the one side. So if you go into a in a negotiation, you have always know what you you can give and what could be interesting for them. yeah So I think this is this is this is ah important.
00:32:16
Speaker
i I think it's it's more this give and take is more important than in Germany, for example, or Europe. Where it's more stricter positions and it's like that and ah you cannot be flexible. Here you have to have a certain, you have always to have ah certain flexibility.
00:32:38
Speaker
So that that was obviously something that you took into your leadership style when you were leading in Brazil. Are there any other, besides the give and take, are there any other leadership qualities that you picked up in Brazil that you didn't pick up or couldn't pick up in Germany?
00:32:56
Speaker
It's not that you cannot... pick it up, but you don't I don't see it so much in Germany. I think ah as ah as a leader in Brazil, if you can give to to your to your company, to the people, ah the the feeling that you're part of this company,
00:33:13
Speaker
company that you are part of them. For example, easy things. The president, he's going, he's having his his lunch together with ah with all all the employees, not just with his staff, but he's joining lunch. You're sitting on a table with workers and you talk, i have a chat with them and it has nothing to do about ah business can be about once again football about the weather and things like that they feel that you are part of the team then you can get
00:33:46
Speaker
a much higher response and much higher commitment from them. People are really very much ah and importing themselves about this personal relationship. So be close to the people. yeah For sure you are the boss and it's clear that you are the boss, but be close.
00:34:08
Speaker
Talk to them, give a hello to them, ah shake their hands to the the cleaning women, with the cleaning women. This is something which is spreading around and people ah ah let's say yeah they are they are they are giving very much value on that. And this is very important for you if you to do ah have to do tough decisions.
00:34:32
Speaker
for For example, once again, I said i had to to to dismiss during my time at once 20% of the people. In Brazil, it's not like that you dismiss and it's a severage package or something like that. Then it's it's tough. yeah and and i personally survived that the people, they believed in me that I i was doing it because it was necessary. yeah And this is you just get this this kind of trust if you are are close to people and they feel that you are part of them.
00:35:03
Speaker
and that That's a difficult thing. I experienced something very similar with Chrysler during the global financial crisis, letting go half of the company. And I know how that that affects you personally.
00:35:14
Speaker
Now, a little bit on the lighter side, yeah did you choose a football team in Brazil? And did you let people know who that was or did you stay neutral and safe?
00:35:25
Speaker
No, no, no, you have to. This is something like that in Brazil. you head It's not important what kind of religion you are, but it's important what kind of football team you are supporting and some school you are supporting. These are the two two two important things and it's a oh you share this with the people and it's always people are making jokes all the time. So it's ah you know, you are the guy supporting this football team and People are talking with you and this is this is this is great stuff.
00:35:57
Speaker
Yeah, we had, I think there were three ah big groups within the Volvo car Brazil. i you know You had three different groups of three different teams and it got stressful when the the season finals were coming along.
00:36:11
Speaker
Yeah, but it's always fun. It's always fun. Yeah, exactly. And now you were there for 20 years. You surely spoke the language, yes? yeah I had advantage that I spoke Spanish before and with Spanish you can learn Portuguese quite quite quite easily. know I needed some four or five months to be more or less I could talk to the people and really have discussions.
00:36:39
Speaker
I think this is very important to to You have to speak the the language, especially in countries like like like ah Latin American countries. or yeah ah You have to speak the the the language.
00:36:53
Speaker
And to understand really the people, to understand what they want, ah you have to to to speak the language.
Transition Back to Germany and AMG Leadership
00:36:59
Speaker
And actually Portuguese or Spanish is not so difficult that you cannot learn it.
00:37:04
Speaker
Maybe Chinese or things this is is is much more difficult. But even though I think it would it always it's always helpful to know a little bit there. No, absolutely. i fully I fully agree with you.
00:37:15
Speaker
Unfortunately, I always chose countries that were much more difficult with Arabic and Russian. How was in Russia? Did you speak some um Russian? I did. i did, actually. I learned quite a bit. I was there for seven years, so I picked up quite a bit, and I can still understand and and read the the Cyrillic foot today. so yeah Now, let's let's shift ah gears a little bit. I mean, literally shifting gears.
00:37:40
Speaker
um There's no way that we can have a podcast and a discussion without talking about your time at Mercedes-AMG. and So you spent 20 years of your career in Brazil and going back to to Germany, but do you really kind of your apex back in Germany, to use a racing term was was with Mercedes AMG, which is such an aspirational brand. And everybody who knows performance vehicles knows about this brand.
00:38:10
Speaker
How was that to rise to the top and to to lead this brand, especially given your experiences that you had just left behind in Brazil? Yeah, it was ah very really and an amazing experience and was ah for me the perfect finish of my career. It was it was like that, that ah to tell to tell the whole story, I was in in former times, I already had worked a lot with passenger cars and also with AMG.
00:38:41
Speaker
I was, during four years, I was head of Mercedes-Benz product management and I was in that time had a lot of relations with AMG. We defined the model strategy for AMG together at that time and so it was not that I came there without any any any preparation.
00:39:03
Speaker
but when ah it was It was time when I was in 2019, 2020, I had to decide whether I would finish my career in Brazil or whether I would go back to Germany.
00:39:16
Speaker
Due to family family family issues, yeah we decided we wanted that our daughter, the younger daughter who just had mostly lived in Brazil, we wanted that she should have some time of her use also in Germany to to get experience.
00:39:33
Speaker
So therefore we decided at that time it would be good to once to go back to to to Germany. And then there was, when then the AMG offer came, it was something you you cannot deny anyway.
00:39:47
Speaker
it was It was very tough because it was directly, it was exactly during the COVID time. So I left Brazil in in in June 20, which was the high of COVID. And I arrived at AMG and this was very tough because um I was seven years outside. So for many people there, was an absolutely newcomer and they could not see me because everything was by video conference. So it was this was ah was ah was really tough to to go into the business and...
00:40:23
Speaker
Also, to at that time nobody knew exactly how it was would go on. So, ah very, very also tough decision time. and um um But on the other side, i think also the time in Brazil helped me a lot with that. so AMG is maybe the most, let's say, is more the most flexible company and the German car company very small company.
00:40:48
Speaker
People are also, they are very important that they have the personal relation to their superiors and they want to talk, they want to they are very motivated and they they want to really, they want to to discuss with you the the subject. they are all They are all people, they are car enthusiasts.
00:41:07
Speaker
So I tried from the from the beginning on to have really to to talk to everybody. I called everybody personally and had discussions. this This helped me in the beginning a lot. But to be honest, the first half year was was was was really tough to get ground on. ah And then afterwards was a great time, really ah with wonderful people.
00:41:30
Speaker
ah Because the the people who are working in GDEV, they are really they are motivated. or you You don't have to motivate them. They are motivated by themselves.
00:41:42
Speaker
Great working atmosphere, super super competent people. yeah And it was really a pleasure to to to work there.
00:41:53
Speaker
Now, how do you how do you feel that the Brazilian experience helped you there? Was was it because of the flexibility and the speed yeah that the company had to work? okay yeah the The flexibility and also, once again, the personal relationship to to the personal the knowledge that you have to to work to the to to to talk to the people, ah especially also in AMG, a high complex ah technical products,
00:42:21
Speaker
You have to hear different kinds of opinions because ah um if not you don't get the the full picture. And this I think this helped me a lot to to to to have this understanding that it's it's very important ah to have a relationship to in in every part of your company to get the right information
Connection with Formula One and AMG
00:42:44
Speaker
to you. This has helped me a lot.
00:42:46
Speaker
especially in the AMG spirit is a very dynamic spirit so it's it's very fast changing. you You are always working on the limit or the technical limits so many times you have to change also the your direction because what you see you see you are you are reaching it doesn't go longer and you cannot insist on that.
00:43:11
Speaker
If not, you lose your target out of all. And so you have to have really a kind of flexibility. If not, it's it's it's very difficult, especially even more in a time like that where the transformation ICE engine to electric engine was starting ah Exactly.
00:43:27
Speaker
Now, the the the pinnacle of of performance and engineering is is Formula One. And i mean, it's crystal clear. Mercedes AMG ah has always been quite dominant in Formula One.
00:43:41
Speaker
This must have been quite exciting for you as well. Were were you always a fan of formula Formula One ah following it? Or was there something new to you that you really had to dive into? Actually, I was always a fan from the former times in a Latin America. I was also ah responsible for Argentina and ah fanju waan mario Manuel Fancho, which is a legend of Formula One racing.
00:44:09
Speaker
He was a Mercedes-Benz dealer, so I had also the pleasure at the time to visit his installations, his birth house. and So it was something that's... Yeah, I was always, let's say, inspired by people like that. Afterwards, and for for sure, Michael Schumacher was a great idol also in Brazil. Brazil's The Love Formula Formula 1, Ayrton Senna. and Michael Schumacher, so they they always loved very much Michael Schumacher in every bar you were always asked about Michael Schumacher. So it was always something I was ah interested in a fan and then in AMG, actually the the Formula One team we have to say it's a different it's a separate company.
00:44:53
Speaker
company What AMG is, say is say what we are doing, we are, let's say, the entrance from Formula One team into the Mercedes-Benz company. So we were always, ah if you're talking about marketing issues, about commercial issues, about other issues, always we were the contact partner. So we had luck quite close ah contact.
00:45:17
Speaker
Also the the the engine engine engineering company is ah is a 100% daughter of Mercedes-AMG. So even though they are situated in the UK, so we always had a relationship. I was part of the advisory board of the Formula One team, so you get you get very close. yeah And i it's it's really fascinating because ah It's AMG already would say for automotive, let's say, yeah, engineering is is the top. yeah
00:45:51
Speaker
But Formula One is is is even still the pentacagon two, or three, four steps higher. It's... It's amazing that the effort which is put in and the differences to make ah one one you you know one second is ah is ah is ah is a life. yeah If you lose one second and and it's really it's ah it's amazing to see how the people are working, how many people are engaged. there are how professional they are yeah and how much effort is behind it. And it's also amazing to see how the business has grown. In 2020, many people said that the Formula One is dead because they were losing interest and things like that. Today, 2025, it has never boomed so much. So it's it's really unbelievable. yeah
00:46:42
Speaker
No, it is. it I know I've seen you at least on one or two episodes of the Drive to Survive. I've i've actually seen you on the ah screen on my Netflix. yeah It's that's really amazing to be also part of the race, the the the engineers, how they are working, what they are doing overnight, and how they are analyzing the data, what kind of information they are having. yeah it's it's It's top.
00:47:06
Speaker
Yeah, this must be incredible to experience that firsthand. So I have to ask, You know, as the CEO of Mercedes-AMG, you must have had your choice of of any model to to drive home every evening.
00:47:20
Speaker
um Which one was your choice? which Which one gave you Gensehaut goosebumps? Oh, man man many cars. ah Actually, i drove ah during a good time of my... of my but When I was there, I had a G63, yeah?
00:47:38
Speaker
G-Class 63 which is amazing. ah This is a car love every morning to to to jump in. It's really amazing, amazing product. um From from the driving point of view, I would say ah the AMG GT Black Series is a car or is a car is fantastic. It's so much power. I think 750 horsepower and so easy to drive.
00:48:12
Speaker
Fantastic. It's it's unbelievable ah to drive this car. um yeah Amazing. And also ah great car I love always to drive is the A45, four-cylinder engine with, I think ah at the end, 400 horsepower, unbelievable four-wheel drive. It's incredible.
00:48:36
Speaker
Really also it's amazing to drive, drivability of it. This is all in all ag cars, the drivability of the cars. One thing is the speed and the acceleration.
00:48:46
Speaker
The other thing is the drivability, how the cars enter into curves, how easy are there they are to handle. This is so something which is fascinating, to be honest. and You just always have to say ah congrats to all the AMG team. What they are doing is is more than then perfect.
00:49:07
Speaker
Those are certainly cars, from from my personal memory, that you can take out on the track and then drive them to work or to the grocery store every day the rest of the week. Exactly.
00:49:18
Speaker
It's fantastic. fantastic And for sure also the AMG 1, to be honest, I never drove him home. I just drove him the AMG 1 with the Formula 1 engine.
00:49:29
Speaker
This is also this was um it' a masterpiece
Advice for Young Executives and Conclusion
00:49:32
Speaker
of engineering. yeah And this car on the racetrack is also something, this is a lifetime experience. ah I would not even want to drive that one to the grocery store.
00:49:43
Speaker
Exactly. Shifting gears again a little bit um to as we're getting close to the end of the episode. I wanted to ask, you know now that you've gone on to other things and and I know you're working on some exciting projects after your retirement from Mercedes-Benz, what advice would you give to a young executive or somebody who dreams of being an executive at Mercedes-Benz or moving even abroad to Brazil?
00:50:12
Speaker
If you are moving abroad, besides of the of the career career aspect, I think you should always go to a place where you like to go.
00:50:23
Speaker
I think this is ah easy to say, but I think it's I saw many people who who went abroad, but they were not prepared to. they They even didn't want to go and I think then for them it's better to stay.
00:50:37
Speaker
So if you go to a place, I think it's very important to choose a place where you really like to go. and I think this is the it's ah it's the first advice because if you like it, then things are much easier.
00:50:52
Speaker
All the problems that you are facing are much easier ah to to solve. the the second The second thing also very easily said is be open-minded. I think this is if you go abroad ah don't don't compare ah what you're used to or don't judge.
00:51:10
Speaker
ah Say look but I was used that it's working like this, now I learned that it can work differently and then adapt to it. Because if you compare all the time or judge, then it's always it's also normally gives you more problems than than any solutions. yeah And the the so the third aspect ah thing is also I saw many people once again when going abroad due to career issues.
00:51:39
Speaker
Yeah, can be important. I think important is that you understand that you have a great opportunity of learning experience, also experience for your personal life.
00:51:50
Speaker
If you move your the continent with with your family, you got another you get another relation to your wife, to your child children, because you're getting out of your comfort zone. and this this this Or it separates you, but normally it brings you more together. And this is this is also, I think, a very important issue. So, um yeah, also see this abroad experience as a personal experience that you that you can grow as a person. I think this is very important.
00:52:22
Speaker
Don't just see it as a professional experience. See it also as a personal experience. These are great words of advice. um i can say from my personal experience that it it was something that my children certainly gained a lot from as a side effect from from you know a choice that I made in my career to move abroad.
00:52:42
Speaker
And I'm sure that you had the same effect with your children. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Philip, it was really great to have you on the show today. And like you pointed out before, it's been a very long time since we worked directly together. So it was fantastic to speak with you.
00:53:01
Speaker
I want to say thank you for joining us and for sharing these great insights. Any closing comments from your side? Well, thank you very much ah for the invitation, John. It was really a pleasure. And I think it's ah but me it was also very ah nice conversation, remembering a little bit ah the times. And yeah yeah, it was really a pleasure to be part of this this ah your podcast. And I wish you the best and all success in the world.
00:53:33
Speaker
Thank you. I really appreciate that. and i'm And I'm sure that the listeners appreciate that as well. A lot of really good nuggets of information in the conversation today. With that, I'd like to say thank you to the listeners and get ready to tune in next week.
00:53:48
Speaker
Until then, keep on driving. Thank you for joining us on today's journey. Please remember to like and subscribe to The Auto Ethnographer and leave us a rating or comment.
00:54:00
Speaker
For more information, visit our website at auto-ethnographer.com. You can also follow on Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn.