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EP 25: The Meaning of Time across Cultures
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Time. Most of us would argue that we do not have enough of it. We want more. Yet every culture uses available time in a completely different way.
This week, John Stech, host of The Auto Ethnographer, speaks about the meaning of time across different cultures. He looks at the “time is money” philosophy of the Americans, the “punctuality is a virtue” culture of northern Europe, the “espresso culture” of southern Europe, the “mañana means maybe” culture of Latin America, and dives into a comparison of “zen versus zoom” when comparing the time cultures of Southeast and East Asian countries. He also looks at the Russian time culture, often held captive by the endless flow of stopped traffic in Moscow.
John blends personal insights from his work and living experiences together with some humor to portray how each culture uses and prioritizes its time.
He ultimately concludes that it boils down to prioritizing four points: efficiency, relationships, harmony, or spontaneity. Each culture will be identified by which of these it chooses to pursue as Priority #1. And how we must understand and appreciate that others will see time in a different way as we.
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Transcript
00:00:00
Speaker
looking at it as a cultural mirror, time tells us what we value. Is it efficiency? Is it relationships?
00:00:11
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Is it harmony? Or is it ultimately spontaneity? And each culture prioritizes those four in a different way.
00:00:22
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Auto Ethnographer. I'm John Steck, your host on this journey. We travel the globe to bring you stories about culture and the global automotive industry. Fasten your seatbelt and let's get started.
00:00:36
Speaker
Hello and welcome to this week's episode of the Auto Ethnographer. We're going to talk about a pretty interesting subject that matters to everybody. Most of us don't have enough of it.
00:00:47
Speaker
Sometimes we feel that we need more and that subject is time. I would argue that this is the most misunderstood universal language on the planet. It's the one thing that we all have and yet it seems that nobody knows how to use it, at least how to agree on using it across the globe.
00:01:08
Speaker
It's got to be the world's worst group project. So let's give some background and my perspective. I grew up in a German household where punctuality had a very high priority.
00:01:23
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Arrived too late for dinner and there was a risk of an empty plate. I learned that five minutes early is too late. That training stuck with me for a lifetime.
00:01:37
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I can't count how many pairs of shoes I had to either resole or replace by wearing them out, waiting for other people pacing back and forth.
00:01:49
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I'm that person that gets to the airport much too early, but then works from the lounge rather than sweating it out of the car in traffic, hoping that I make my flight.
00:02:03
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I spent my formative years in the United States where time is also valued. And it's not that dissimilar to the German Puntlichkeit or punctuality, but there are certainly some key differences.
00:02:17
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But to be frank, none of this prepared me for what I would encounter when I was living in Egypt, in Russia, now in Southeast Asia, or working extensively in Latin America.
00:02:31
Speaker
Every culture looks at time from ah completely different dimension. Let's explore a few, but just keep in mind that what I'm talking about are generalities. Different companies, different people have varying views on time.
00:02:47
Speaker
Believe it or not, I do have some German friends that are perpetually running late. Let's talk first about the United States, which I might even call the stopwatch society.
00:03:00
Speaker
Meetings start on time. Early is professional, late is disrespectful. And this probably comes from that age old saying of time is money.
00:03:13
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And that mentality is ingrained pretty deep into the American psyche. Five minutes late is already pushing it and rules are in place to remedy you know being late.
00:03:25
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For example, when I worked at Chrysler roughly 20 years ago, which is now part of Stellantis, we had a weekly management team meeting with Chrysler International. All of the directors from the various different ah departments and areas would meet with the head of Chrysler International.
00:03:42
Speaker
And he was a German ah who put one rule in place. arrive late for the meetings and pay $1 per minute on your delay up to a $20 maximum.
00:03:55
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That money would be used for food and beverages for holiday parties. I fondly remember one of the directors, he was so perpetually late with with each meeting that he asked if he could have a payment plan.
00:04:12
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I think he even single-handedly funded a few of the holiday parties during the course of the year based on his perpetual delays.
00:04:22
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But looking at assignments, not meetings, but assignments, here deadlines tend to be more sacred. Delivering something early and on time is seen as being competent.
00:04:36
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Late delivery will often require an explanation, an apology. But as Dr. Helmut Größe explained in episode three, the deadlines do not necessarily mean an early start.
00:04:54
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Deadlines will be achieved in the United States, but with Herculean efforts often in the last moment. Just think about all those all-nighters that university students regularly experience, and you get a little bit of an idea of how that might work.
00:05:12
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Now, extensions might be possible, but only with prior notice and with a good reason. It's not good to have the deadline arrive and and then explain that the assignment is not complete.
00:05:23
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It's better to give a heads up in an American office environment so that contingency plans can be made if necessary, if there's missing information from an assignment not turned in.
00:05:34
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If I had to summarize it in a little bit of a humorous way, I would say that Americans treat time like a competitive sport. If you're not early, you're losing.
00:05:45
Speaker
If you're late, you're benched. Or in the case of my former boss at Chrysler, you're paying a dollar a minute into the penalty jar. Let's swing across the big pond to Northern Europe, where I would argue that punctuality is seen as a virtue.
00:06:06
Speaker
So being exactly on time is a sign of respect and reliability. In fact, being five minutes early is being on time. which I mentioned was integrated into my own upbringing.
00:06:21
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Just wait outside of the office you're visiting, even if you're early. And then when the door opens, you're exactly on time. Lateness, even by two minutes, can damage trust.
00:06:36
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I've worked with a few German leaders in the past that went so far as to lock the door at the time a meeting started, arrived too late, and you simply couldn't join the meeting.
00:06:49
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Other Northern European cultures, they vary slightly. The Dutch are also known for their punctuality. And then my experience working with Sweden was slightly different.
00:07:02
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Meeting times felt slightly more flexible at Volvo with people arriving sometimes well into the meeting, either in-person meetings or online meetings.
00:07:13
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Frankly, this was an unexpected surprise to me as I expected a stronger time orientation, like the German culture that I was very familiar with. When it comes to delivering assignments in Northern European cultures, the deadlines are pretty much non-negotiable.
00:07:30
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Delivering late is seen as wholly unprofessional. That pretty much applies to all Northern European cultures. In fact, it's often an advantage to share early drafts of an assignment just to show progress reports and instill confidence that an assignment is in fact going to be delivered on time.
00:07:52
Speaker
Planning and precision are valued over improvisation. And this is where I go back to what Dr. Helmut Gorsa mentioned in episode three, they ring true again.
00:08:04
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While he began work on a project weeks before the due date, according to a schedule that he made for himself, his American counterparts at Chrysler worked to a different plan.
00:08:17
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They used the last minute all-nighter as he described. I would summarize that in Germany, if you're late to a meeting, they might not say anything.
00:08:28
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They just possibly might not invite you again, depending on your role. Let's talk about Southern Europe. It's so much different.
00:08:40
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I would almost classify there as having a espresso delay.
00:08:48
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These observations, again, are very general, and they do vary between countries like Spain and Italy and southern France. My primary experience was with the Italians at Fiat Chrysler in Torino in northern Italy.
00:09:03
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And I do have to say that in northern Italy, it is a dramatic difference to southern Italy with respect to sense of time and and the value of time. Meetings often start 10 to minutes late, depending again on Spain, Italy, Southern France, especially in formal meetings.
00:09:24
Speaker
But I have to say in Torino, the delay was quite negligible, if at all. They were much more industrious in the north and time had a different meaning than in the south, say like Naples or or or in Sicily, very different sense of time.
00:09:43
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One thing that was very nice, I have to admit, is the social warmth which takes precedence over strict timing. Even the most challenging meetings I had at Fiat Chrysler often started with pleasantries, an espresso, and a friendly exchange.
00:10:06
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And then we got down to sales target discussions and those pleasantries dwindled very quickly. When delivering assignments, deadlines are a bit more flexible in Southern Europe, especially if the work is creative or collaborative.
00:10:27
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This was a challenge for me. Italy is not known as a planning culture in quotes, in the sense of the Germans, Yes, they make plans, but they also modify them and update them extremely frequently.
00:10:44
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If you couple that with delays in delivering assignments, then sometimes you have confusion erupting about whether the delivered assignment actually matches the current status of the planning and the strategy.
00:11:00
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This was something that I experienced ah personally when I was working in FCA, but leaning more towards the Chrysler side of the business, where plans change seemingly every week, ah if not every month.
00:11:17
Speaker
Delivering late is acceptable, but the quality needs to be high, especially if the relationship is strong with the person that you're delivering that assignment to.
00:11:27
Speaker
Here, I would summarize a little bit from a humorous perspective that Deadlines in Italy are like speed limits. They're technically there, but there's a 10% allowance.
00:11:43
Speaker
As you probably know, I currently reside in Southeast Asia in Bangkok, Thailand, and I have certainly been learning a lot about Asia and about the different cultures in Asia. and And I think here we have this concept that I would label as Zen versus Zoom.
00:12:06
Speaker
So for anyone that thinks in their mind that Asia is Asia and it's all the same, then brace yourself. This can't be more inaccurate, especially when it comes to the meaning of time.
00:12:21
Speaker
Looking at Southeast Asia, Thailand for example, time is more fluid. Being late is rarely seen as rude unless it causes true disruption.
00:12:33
Speaker
In Thailand, there's an expression, sabay sabay, which translates roughly to take it easy. This can permeate the time culture and it makes the interpretation of what's showing on your wristwatch as extremely flexible.
00:12:52
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Meetings might start late, especially if preceded by any kind of, let's say social rituals, like a common tea, a coffee or a lunch. And then conversely,
00:13:04
Speaker
The meetings may run far over the planned schedule, which puts the daily calendar into disarray. As far as assignment delivery in Southeast Asia, specifically Thailand, deadlines are flexible, especially in relationship-driven contexts.
00:13:24
Speaker
This can vary by company, especially those with foreign ownership and foreign leadership, where they may utilize or may have implemented the time contexts from the home country.
00:13:38
Speaker
But there's always an undercurrent of sabay sabay lurking somewhere around the corner. And it does require, if you are not local, a little pushing on reaching the assignment delivery deadlines.
00:13:55
Speaker
Why is this? Well, quality and harmony often matter more than speed. Finding agreement with everyone so that you can avoid conflict and everybody keeps face, in quotes,
00:14:14
Speaker
are very important. And that takes time to smooth everything. And with a much more contextual culture, rather than, you know, direct conversation to reach certain um agreements, it it just takes a little bit more time.
00:14:33
Speaker
And therefore, time takes on a completely different dimension. But you only have to fly a few hours north of here from Thailand to experience something vastly different.
00:14:46
Speaker
Looking at East Asia, at Japan, at Korea, at China, it's very different. Punctuality is critical in Japan and Korea and China.
00:14:59
Speaker
Being early is ideal and being late is shameful. valuing your time but especially that of others it reflects discipline and respect just as it would in northern europe or in the united states people want to be respected they expect to be respected and respecting their time is an important component of that the same goes for delivering assignments deadlines are strict
00:15:33
Speaker
Delivering late can reflect poorly on character and group harmony. And in Japan, this can be a painstaking business because proposals are typically pre-agreed throughout the organization before a formal presentation is presented to leadership.
00:15:51
Speaker
So all of this stacks up time, but has to stay within the given schedule. In other words, quality and perfection are expected but so is timeliness.
00:16:05
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If you put it this way, you could say that in Tokyo, if you're 30 seconds late, somebody else has already filed a report before you.
00:16:16
Speaker
But in Bangkok, they'll greet you with a smile and ask if you've eaten yet. A very different approach to time. While I was working with Volvo cars,
00:16:28
Speaker
I spent four years as the regional vice president of Latin America. And there I learned that manana means maybe.
00:16:41
Speaker
Perhaps my biggest adjustment to cultural time zones was my experience in Latin America. I had to fully recalibrate my own inner timekeeper, as well as learn how to bite my tongue without too much pain on numerous occasions.
00:17:00
Speaker
To successfully work there for four years, I had to absolutely change my own expectations and my own way of working. Social events and even business meetings, they tend to start late.
00:17:15
Speaker
I remember in the first two years of my four years working with with various countries in Latin America, I would show up for these social events planned by the company on time, even five minutes after the official starting time.
00:17:30
Speaker
And I would be the only person in the room for the next 30 minutes, 45 minutes, even an hour. Business meetings, though not as delayed as social events, they also tend to accept a certain amount of grace period into when the meeting starts versus the planned time.
00:17:51
Speaker
And then when they start, there's a significant amount of personal relationship building that happens that can feel very slow to somebody from the United States or from Northern Europe who typically just want to get straight down to business.
00:18:13
Speaker
You see, personal relationships matter more than the clock. They build trust. Time is always running and meetings can be delayed, but the power of the relationship, it takes time to build.
00:18:29
Speaker
And since Northern Europeans and Americans might be less forthcoming about personal matters like, like family or health, it can take that much longer because it takes more time to pry that out of us.
00:18:44
Speaker
But once you learn, you become much more comfortable and you start to develop those deeper, meaningful relationships with your colleagues in Latin America.
00:18:57
Speaker
Deadlines. for assignments can be very flexible, especially if the client who is expecting them is is understanding.
00:19:09
Speaker
I once had a manager working for me in Brazil whose catchphrase was, it's Latin America, you never know what's going to happen. This was a phrase he used universally to explain everything, delayed assignments or delays in reaching certain company goals.
00:19:30
Speaker
At first, I didn't like that excuse, but frankly, he was absolutely correct. You never know what happens in Latin America and whatever you don't expect, that often ends up happening.
00:19:46
Speaker
Communication is is key. Delays can be tolerated. but they have to be explained. And this is where that building up of relationships comes in. It helps to smooth out the ripples caused by any kind of delay and inconvenience that stems from that.
00:20:07
Speaker
I found, as a frankly, as a high-distance Northern European, as a German, that in Latin America, time bends to emotion.
00:20:21
Speaker
A deadline can be missed, but you'll probably end up with a heartfelt apology and even a hug, something which this high distance German ah was always a little bit surprised by.
00:20:35
Speaker
Although Russia is at the moment not so much in the international business mainstream, I do want to spend a few moments to reflect on my time in Russia because I did spend seven years living and working there in Moscow.
00:20:54
Speaker
I think I can definitively say that the Russian culture with regards to time is an interesting blend of attitudes that mixes a little bit the Northern Europeans from timeliness and even Southeast Asian with respect to having to follow up and keeping on track.
00:21:20
Speaker
At the time, most international businesses, and this is from between 2007 to 2014, were located in Moscow. And that's where a significant number of Russian companies also kept their headquarters.
00:21:37
Speaker
The traffic in Moscow is notoriously bad and Russians are not necessarily known for their planning. It's one of those other cultural aspects I'll be talking about in a different episode.
00:21:51
Speaker
So Russians are not as known for their planning, but more for reacting to certain situations. So whereas I would look at the Yandex traffic map and plan accordingly,
00:22:04
Speaker
Many of my colleagues and business partners, they didn't. And as a result, they used the I got stuck in traffic excuse universally for every type of delay to attending a meeting or attending some sort of an event.
00:22:21
Speaker
I'll just give one somewhat funny example. Fiat Chrysler was opening a new dealer on the Northeast quadrant of Moscow. the ceremony would take place at the tail end of the peak evening rush hour when everybody would be you know driving out of Moscow and it became impenetrable traffic and and hours just to reach the Outer Ring Road.
00:22:47
Speaker
I was working in my office and a Russian colleague came in informing me that he was leaving. And this was, I would say, two hours before the event, the grand opening event at the dealer was slated to start.
00:23:01
Speaker
And he looked at me and insisted that I also need to leave because of the traffic.
00:23:08
Speaker
He left and called me about 20 minutes later and said that I needed to leave immediately because traffic was very bad. I spent a few more minutes on my work and then I packed up and went to my car.
00:23:24
Speaker
You see, I had researched my route and I knew that if I drove to the outer ring road via a very small, relatively unused road, and then drove along the outer ring road and then back into the city, I would actually be driving against the traffic most of my route.
00:23:44
Speaker
Yes, I drove probably 30 more kilometers than my colleague, but I arrived at the grand opening event 20 minutes before it started.
00:23:56
Speaker
And my colleague had not yet arrived and in fact nearly missed the ceremony. It turns out that he drove a straight line from office to dealership in the same direction on the same road as several hundred thousand other commuters.
00:24:12
Speaker
You should have seen his face when he walked into the dealership and he saw me there already having left at least half an hour after he did. And I already had one glass of champagne for the grand opening before he even arrived.
00:24:29
Speaker
When it came to assignment delivery, deadlines were pretty fixed. at least at Chrysler Russia or FCA Russia, it was because I was trying to impose a bit more of an American style culture with regards to the attendance at meetings and punctuality as well as deadlines of delivering assignments.
00:24:53
Speaker
It just required a lot of follow-up to make sure that the team were working on it. I kept a so-called tickler file a kind of file that had 30 pages.
00:25:04
Speaker
And I would note for the day of the month when I would have to follow up again on an assignment just to make sure that that within the next five days after something was assigned, it would actually be completed on time.
00:25:19
Speaker
From a more humorous angle, a colleague in Moscow once tried to teach me about deadlines in Russia. It went something like this.
00:25:30
Speaker
In Russia, deadlines are more like gentle suggestions from the universe. They're firm, but negotiable, like a babushka's opinion of your love life.
00:25:42
Speaker
And if you don't know what a babushka is or how they are respected in Russia, you'll definitely need to look that up. So let's kind of summarize this.
00:25:53
Speaker
So what is time really? What is the meaning of time? I think we have to always look in a cultural mirror and whether you're from ah culture that is very time and punctuality oriented, you probably have to become a bit more flexible, a bit less rigid.
00:26:17
Speaker
And if you are from a culture where the wristwatch and the clock on the wall don't have such a strict meaning, then if you're working for an international company, you may have to make some adjustments.
00:26:34
Speaker
Again, looking at it as a cultural mirror, time tells us what we value. Is it efficiency? Is it relationships?
00:26:46
Speaker
Is it harmony? Or is it ultimately spontaneity? And each culture prioritizes those four, efficiency, relationships, harmony, and spontaneity in a different way.
00:27:02
Speaker
So the next time that someone misses a deadline, you have to ask yourself, are they lazy or are they just living in a different cultural time zone of the soul than what you are personally accustomed to?
00:27:18
Speaker
So thank you for listening to this week's episode of The Auto Ethnographer. I look forward to seeing you next week on time. Until then, keep on driving.
00:27:32
Speaker
Thank you for joining us on today's journey. Please remember to like and subscribe to The Auto Ethnographer and leave us a rating or comment. For more information, visit our website at auto-ethnographer.com.
00:27:44
Speaker
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