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S2E11: Dieux CEO & Co-Founder Charlotte Palermino
432 Plays1 year ago
We chat with @Charlotte Palermino: CEO and co-founder of @Dieux Skin. TikTok’s skincare fairy godmother ✨ An all-around absolute force.
If you’re in the beauty or skincare industry, or just around on TikTok, you know Charlotte.
She pioneered and grew Cosmopolitan’s Snapchat. Then she moved in-house to Snapchat, before co-founding Dieux Skin - a brand beloved by celebs from Hailey Bieber to Harrison Ford. (Yes, for real.)
Our convo covered:
-What Snapchat got wrong that TikTok gets right.
-Why (and how) she moved from Cosmopolitan to Head of Editorial at Snapchat.
-What made skincare a natural next step for her.
-Why Dieux Skin paid their brand designer in equity. (Loved this + took notes.) 😇💲
-How Charlotte plans (or doesn’t) her viral TikTok content. 📈
-The problem with “reef safe” sunscreen marketing
…and more.
Eye Dieux really hope you like it. (Had to. Not sorry.) 💛👁️
Follow Meredith: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meredith-farley/
Subscribe to the Content People Newsletter: https://meredithfarley.substack.com/
Follow Charlotte:
TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@charlotteparler?lang=enInsta - https://www.instagram.com/charlotteparler/reels/?hl=en
ShopMyShelf - https://shopmy.us/charlotteparler/shelves
Dieux Insta - https://www.instagram.com/dieuxskin/
Dieux TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@dieuxskin?lang=en
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast
00:00:02
Speaker
Welcome to Content People. I'm your host Meredith Farley. Each week we interview a creator, founder, author, or a professional behind the content that we love.
Guest Introduction: Charlotte Palomino
00:00:11
Speaker
Today, I'm absolutely thrilled to be joined by Charlotte Palomino. If you're in the beauty or skincare industry, or if you've been scrolling through TikTok, you've likely come across Charlotte. She's the CEO and founder of Do Skin, which is beloved by skincare, aficionados, and celebs from Hailey Bieber to the legendary Harrison Ford.
Discussion Topics Overview
00:00:32
Speaker
In our conversation, we delved into what Snapchat got wrong that TikTok got right, why she paid her brand designer in equity. I particularly love that story. I was taking notes. Charlotte's strategy for crafting viral TikTok content, the misconceptions surrounding reef safe sunscreen marketing, and so much more.
00:00:53
Speaker
To get more of Charlotte, you can follow her on
Meredith's Career Transition
00:00:55
Speaker
TikTok. She's at Charlotte Parlor, P-A-R-L-E-R, and the same for Instagram. You can also check out her recommended products. She's got a Shop My Shelf, and you can also dive into Do Skin on Instagram and on TikTok. I will throw all of those in the show notes. I love following Charlotte. I definitely recommend it. Check her out. If you want to know a little bit more about me,
00:01:18
Speaker
I transitioned from being a marketing COO to the CEO and founder of my own agency, Medbury.
00:01:24
Speaker
We launched this summer and have been working closely with founders, coaches, creatives, job seekers, and budding entrepreneurs, helping them to expand their professional brands.
Charlotte's Background and Content Focus
00:01:34
Speaker
Basically, we're optimizing and managing LinkedIn so that you don't have to do it. We manage newsletters and podcasts too. If you're curious to learn more, shoot me an email or subscribe to our newsletter. Links are in the description below. All right, I think that's it. Let's jump in. I really hope that you like it. Charlotte, thank you so much.
00:01:51
Speaker
Charlotte, thank you so much. I've always found you so fascinating and I'm really grateful for your time to let me pick your brain a little bit. So excited to be here. Anyone who is interested in skincare I think absolutely knows you. But for folks who maybe aren't as familiar with the skincare industry or you, could you say a little bit about who you are and what you do?
00:02:13
Speaker
Yeah, so I'm Charlotte Palomino. I've been in many different fields and industries. I am the CEO and co-founder of Do. I also create a lot of content on the internet, just talking about skincare and a lot of the different things that kind of impact our society, like culturally.
00:02:31
Speaker
beyond just like the beauty space. I love science. I love marketing. I love advertising. I love storytelling.
Fact-checking in Beauty Marketing
00:02:37
Speaker
And I think that's led me to the skincare space because skincare, especially when you're a woman, it infiltrates your life more and more as every year passes by for the obvious reasons. And I feel like beauty isn't given much attention sometimes or fact checking.
00:02:53
Speaker
because it's considered frivolous, but it's really spiraling right now, especially with the advent of TikTok and misinformation. And so it's just a place where I find it endlessly fascinating to see how brands are marketing themselves. And I'm like, do they really think that nobody's going to figure this out? And then I'm like, wait a minute, but nobody is talking about it. So I'm going to talk about it.
00:03:11
Speaker
And in a way that I hope people resonate with and learn from and don't, my main thing is like, don't be scared because whether it be to make you motivate a purchase or to motivate an action, fear is one of the easiest ways to get somebody to act because you aren't really thinking anymore. I only follow like 20 people and you are one of them. I think you called do a TMI brand and you're all about facts. Your anti-fear mongering is such a,
00:03:34
Speaker
like a lovely space on the internet, and I love that. I think that so much on the internet, people want clear answers, especially in a world that's so uncertain, but that's actually the biggest red flag is somebody that says, oh, I know definitively, right? Like even something like coral reef safe sunscreen, right? Like 10 years, 20 years ago, we were like, okay, let's get more information on this. Now we know that if you boost any filter, including zinc really high in the ocean, it's going to bleach coral reefs. It has nothing to do with why the reefs.
00:04:02
Speaker
are being bleached has to do with the rising ocean temperatures.
Charlotte's Career Journey
00:04:05
Speaker
And so brands, instead of selling you a zinc sunscreen, should probably just be making UPF clothing and that you buy once and that you don't buy anything else again. It's just like this kind of a miss marketing to people's better intentions. Like my whole thing is I'm like, it's not on you, the consumer to become an investigative journalist. I think it is insane how much pressure we put on consumers to figure things out on their own, right? What's the best packaging? What's the best ingredients? What's the best? No, brands have
00:04:29
Speaker
the responsibility to be marketing in a truthful way. And in other countries, there are more laws around this, but in the United States, I like to say the most unregulated thing isn't the formula. It's literally the marketing. Like you could say whatever you want just about. For a lot of folks listening are probably in marketing or social media. Yes. I'd like to peel back a little bit on your experience because
00:04:54
Speaker
You built out Cosmopolitan's Snapchat channel to huge success. And then you got a job at Snapchat. And that little detail of yours. And I started in advertising. It was so strange. I started in advertising and then went into editorial and then went over to tech. It was weird.
00:05:11
Speaker
Could you talk a little bit about your career journey there? And then I want to ask, because I'm always trying to just pull actionable insights or advice for listeners. How did you make that move from internal Cosmos Snapchat to actually working at Snapchat?
Understanding TikTok's Algorithm
00:05:27
Speaker
Yeah, so I was working at Hearst for years. I started off on the branded content side. Then I went into audience development. And so this was the era when Facebook was eating everybody's lunch. And so everybody was trying to be Facebook. And I like to say that TikTok is a version of Facebook right now because virality is through clickbait or through incendiary headlines or through things that basically determine an engagement, right? It's not about quality. It's not about truth. It's about, can this narrative pick up?
00:05:56
Speaker
And that is what's happening on TikTok right now, but it's moved on beyond social graphs, right? So Instagram, Facebook, I follow you, you follow me. That's how you get views. TikTok is an algorithm that serves through the For You page. It has nothing to do with your social graphs. It has to do with virality. So it's really fascinating how much has changed. And I think that this is why I'm able to shift a lot is because I understand. The thing that fascinates me to no end is what motivates somebody. Why does somebody do something?
00:06:22
Speaker
And so that's been
Building a Brand Responsibly
00:06:23
Speaker
the through line. So when I was working at Hearst, I actually got to launch the Snap2Discover channel because I was working in audience partnerships. I was working on building out YouTube and Pinterest and really like Instagram and viral articles. I was actually giving editorial suggestions on what to write. And then I would actually write some of these articles. And I went, I almost got someone today show for an article that I wrote about
00:06:46
Speaker
pizza cleanse and then you saw this kind of journalism taking over like a lot of people copied the model but it wasn't like necessarily like me creatively thinking of something it was me looking at data and be like okay you combine this with this and you get this headline and that's how we actually create the article and so I launched Cosmos Snapchat Discover I ran that editorial channel for a year I think that anybody who works in publishing or in magazines I don't come
00:07:09
Speaker
from a family that pays my rent or a family that really gives me money at all after I graduated university. And even before that, like I had to pay my way. You can't live in New York off of the salary, right? Like you're making money that you are living paycheck to paycheck and it loses the glamor once you start to hit your thirties. And so
00:07:27
Speaker
I actually reached out to Snapchat and I was like, hey, this is what's happening. What are y'all up to? And it's not like they got a massive pay rise, but they're like an equity piece and things like that. Like content is always, it's so interesting because content is the crux of platforms and why people are engaging. But for some reason, like a lot of platforms just don't invest in it because they expect creators to do it for free, which to date, yes, that is what's happening.
00:07:50
Speaker
And so I actually just asked for the job, which is what I typically done throughout my career. I'm like, the worst thing they're going to say is no. And so I had to submit an edit test, which was funny. I basically had to say like how I would help different platforms like the New York Times or Siena and or Al Jazeera. I was in Dubai for a while, like launching all these different platforms and publishers in the UAE. And so I became the editorial lead for Snapchat and basically creating best practices for that platform. How do you create engagement in what vertical videos?
00:08:19
Speaker
So it was like Snapchat could have been TikTok, but instead of opening on a content feed, they opened on the camera, which obviously is way too much pressure for the average person. People need inspiration, and TikTok's all about copying what other people do, right? You're copying viral sounds, you're copying viral formats, or you're stitching, right? So TikTok really understood humans in a way that I don't think other platforms did, which is replication and mimicking.
00:08:46
Speaker
That is so interesting. Thank you. And there's so many things I want to ask about there. When you first started talking, you mentioned how virality is its fear. It's something incendiary, and that's what's going to get the clicks. That's what's going to get traction.
00:09:04
Speaker
You have an amazing social following and you're anti that. How can one subvert that and be responsible but also still build a business or build a brand if that's what they're trying to do. I think it's like what is your angle that is surprising or unique to you and you have to do it in your voice because actually authenticity is the most important thing.
00:09:24
Speaker
If something is overproduced or something feels fake, people are just going to not be engaged. And so if you can tell a story in a compelling way, where people are going to get past that five second mark, which is really that tipping point to get people really involved, then that's how you're going to actually get traction on different platforms.
Personal Branding and Authenticity
00:09:42
Speaker
So that's what I always say. It's like I have a lot of misses and like on TikTok right now I'm currently trying to find what that good balance is because I haven't had the time to dedicate to my content the way that I used to because do has really picked up. And so do has become like obviously this priority but it's I think it's so important to keep that
00:09:59
Speaker
base of education. So I'm actually looking till sub-stack and places where I'm not relying on an algorithm and whereas people who are interested in this and they can share it in a different way. Like for example, I would love to do just like a really long blog post on like different social channels and like how that evolution has come to be and what I think some of the end stages are going to be. But it's, I don't know if that would perform well on TikTok and I don't want to create my content purely around the lens of what's going to go viral.
00:10:24
Speaker
And so I'm thinking increasing my different channels, right? So diversifying a bit. I want to diversify my social portfolio. That's interesting. For the record, I would hard subscribe to any record you're reading. I would love a Charlotte sub-stack, but it kind of, it leads into a question I had. So my agency, Medbury, focuses on personal branding for founders and
00:10:49
Speaker
exact, but it's mostly LinkedIn rather than TikTok. But when I see someone like you who is really just nailing it, I'm always very curious about the behind the scenes. Like you have so much facility with communication and interviews and on TikTok. And my sense would be that for you, finding the right words or sharing stories comes really easy. But I'm curious, is that true? Have you ever struggled to find your voice or a personal brand for yourself?
Marketing and Fear-mongering
00:11:15
Speaker
I think this refers back to what I was saying before. I just, I have one volume. It's really interesting. So I met with this dermatologist that I'm obsessed with just because he's just, he puts out really great information and it's just like really like fun to talk to Corey Hartman. And I met him for a drink while he was in town.
00:11:33
Speaker
And he was like, whoa, you're exactly like your Instagram. And I'm like, yeah. So I don't have to think about a personal brand. I just am what I am. I think that one thing that I have learned through time and it's something that one of my co-founders, Marta, has really taught me is that it's OK to be soft sometimes. Like sometimes I'm so angry and I don't think that's necessarily the best way to push things forward. Sometimes anger gives you that energy to push through to the next level. But it's not necessarily great for building and growing community.
00:12:00
Speaker
And so I think that's one thing that I'm trying to balance out a little bit more is trying to have empathy and compassion and understanding why some people are doing the things that they're doing. Why would you put out this information? Like maybe you think it's accurate and maybe you just don't know. And so taking it more from that lens, I think there's an evolution of my voice. And I'm hoping that there is more of an evolution because I really want the world to become better. And I think that misinformation is never the way to get there.
00:12:27
Speaker
I don't think it's helpful. Every little bit helps when you're talking about coral reef bleaching because, sorry, I listened to a podcast from the daily and then I went into this spiral and we're really fucked on the coral reef front. And then I'm seeing more brands talking about coral reef safe sunscreen. And I'm like, vote for people who believe in climate change. Anybody watch the GOP debate. We literally have politicians saying that climate change is not real.
00:12:54
Speaker
So if you care about the coral reef so much, don't use it as a sales pitch. Do the thing that will actually help, which is voting people into power that will at least try to solve this really monumental and urgent issue. And that right there, it's not like a script. It's not like a thing that I'm coming up with. It's a thing that I'm like really scared about. And I'm 36. I froze my eggs. I have no idea if I want children because I'm like really scared about that. And so I'm trying to figure out ways to bring people into this conversation because I'm like, maybe they don't know.
00:13:21
Speaker
And so how do we create a place where people it's okay to be wrong and it's okay to grow because I think that's another thing on the internet is that you can never make a misstep, right? It's like you make one misstep and then it's like you are this people being and it's no, it's like we all make mistakes. So how do we fix this together? And that's like where I'm trying to pivot to because I'm at the point now where I'm like people must not know and that's I have to take that perspective. Otherwise I'm going to be
00:13:50
Speaker
not very welcoming to people into changing. You don't get somebody to change by screaming at them. I know this from my childhood. I was very stubborn and nobody got me to do anything by yelling at me. It was by reasoning with me. And so how do we get to that space? And so that's how my brand is now and how I'm trying to evolve.
00:14:10
Speaker
And so for me, I bring my whole self. And so that is somebody who is very passionate, somebody who's very opinionated and somebody who's also very open to being wrong.
Social Media and Privacy
00:14:19
Speaker
And so that is my brand, whether it be at do or whether it be on my personal Instagram or my sub sec, I have a name for it, but I will, I'll tell you later. Like maybe we'll change it, but I'm going to workshop it with you. I really appreciate the emotional intelligence that you're bringing to a brand there in that I think
00:14:39
Speaker
Finding ways to match one's passion and opinions and energy with also openness to conversation is really hard. Some people who just have such facility with those things like you, it just feels so authentic and they just came out of the womb with a point of view and a voice.
00:14:56
Speaker
I credit my grandparents with it a lot because they grew up during like really rough times. And so they're very wary of any claim. They're like, can you back that up? And it's like, for example, my grandfather, my Italian grandfather, we were driving like in some like small town in New Hampshire and there was like fresh vegetables. And he looks, what are they going to sell? Rotten vegetables?
00:15:19
Speaker
And it's my grandmother had the same thing, like any sort of like a marketing pitch or a sell, she'd be like, obviously. And she would come to the United States and she'll be like, this is so over marketed. And this is when I was like five or six. And so I credit both of them. They were like very positive cynics. And so they really shaped my brain quite a bit.
00:15:39
Speaker
Do you have any social media rules for yourself or things that you will not talk about? I don't talk about my personal life very much. Like I've been dating somebody for like over a year and we're very serious. And like I posted him on TikTok the other day, but I literally covered his face. And I'm like, I don't know if I want to talk about this because I've had so many relationships at this point, like very normal when you're in New York in 36.
00:16:04
Speaker
And it's just, you just, it's already painful enough going through breakups, even if you knew it wasn't right. Like I don't want to necessarily have to explain to a lot of people because when you start monetizing your personal life, sometimes it feels like you need to give an explanation. So that's actually one thing that I don't know if I would ever talk more about it. Like I just got a place in Carroll Gardens. I'm going to do some work on it. And I was like, do I want to talk or do I want to show my space? Like people might see where I live and I don't know. Like it's an interesting question for me. So that so far is something that I have a pretty strict rule on.
00:16:33
Speaker
Just because it's people can be really mean and I'm like you can be mean about my business You can be mean about my content because if you're mean about my personal life Well, I don't know if I have enough money to hire a therapist that often for that Yeah, I get that I'm curious to for time on apps I had I feel like I have to be careful because I said but it'll get too intense too fast for me Do you have any rules for yourself where you're like 30 minutes on tick tock a day or any or anything like that? I
00:17:01
Speaker
a couple of times like every quarter I will try to be off my phone at least for an entire weekend. I'm trying to make more weekends of absolutely no time on my phone. I'm thinking about getting a landline like really going analog here. I guess it's not really analog. It'll be a lot of those like turnstile phones but that's basically my only rule because it's I know how these algorithms work like you are literally
00:17:24
Speaker
sucked in with TikTok. It's meant to be that way. Like you're supposed to click holes on Wikipedia. Like you start learning about mozzarella cheese and then you end up in some like weird like revolution from a country and like 500 years ago and you look up and it's 6am. That is TikTok, but they just figured it out with video. So it's far more compelling. And so I don't put limits on myself, no, but I do actually just put limits on like the device.
00:17:49
Speaker
Like I went to Mexico for a week with my partner's family, literally put my phone in a lockbox, did not look at it for one week, but I had like a little camcorder and a little film camera.
00:18:00
Speaker
How did it feel after that? Did you feel like your brain opened up a little or were you like, yeah, I was able to rest. That's the thing. It's, I think it's hard because you're like, oh, if I just have a vacation, I'm going to feel better. And I used to do this in my old life, like in one night before I started running a company and it's just a band-aid, right? It's like you broke your leg and you put a band-aid on it and it's okay.
Pandemic's Impact on Lifestyle
00:18:20
Speaker
It's like a cobble around. It's, you need to change the actual mechanism of how your life works, right? You need to change your pattern.
00:18:27
Speaker
You need to be sleeping more, right? Like none of this works if you aren't taking care of yourself. It doesn't matter if you take a vacation, doesn't matter if you take a break. It's like your life needs to work in the way that you need it to work. And I think that what happened in 2020 with COVID is that so many people realize this doesn't work. This is crazy. And I come from the US, but I spent a lot of time in France and people don't live their lives.
00:18:48
Speaker
in the rest of the world necessarily the way they do here. I have a very privileged life in my family and friends. Some of them are farmers and they're not very wealthy, but they're able to live a life that I don't think really exists in the United States in the same way, especially when you look at how we treat agriculture. It's interesting and I'm hoping that there is going to be more of a shift in that way because Americans deserve to rest.
00:19:14
Speaker
as do has like really just exploded. Are you finding ways to rest for yourself or? Yeah. I mean, we'll have low sales days sometimes. And I'm like, that's okay. Like you need to be okay
Do Skin's Business Approach
00:19:24
Speaker
with that. And then we'll have really high sales days. From my perspective, it's how do you create a company that lasts? And that doesn't just, that isn't just like a TikTok viral moment, right? Like you can have that as a brand, but how do you get people to come back? And I'm so proud of our repeat purchase numbers, which are in the high sixties. And I think it's just a testament to Joyce's formulas. She's, she's such a thoughtful formulator. We go through.
00:19:44
Speaker
so many iterations because the way that most companies formulate their skincare is that they don't have a chemist in-house. For us, she's my co-founder, right? So we have two co-founders. I have two co-founders. She's one of them. So she's in a position of power. Most companies give a marketing brief to the chemist and back it out. And those marketing briefs go through what's going to be trending on TikTok next year, right? So it's like the Mintel report, the Google Analytics reports. That's why you see so many slugging kits right now.
00:20:09
Speaker
And it's just, it's a great skincare practice, yes, but they're capitalizing on this trending term. And so it's not necessarily something that came from the mind of the chemist. It's like a marketing brief that was then given to formulators, which is fine. Like chemists, they can do a thing. But for us, we just flip that script and say, what does the skin need? And how do we actually market that and position it in a really transparent way? And so I think that's why we have such a high loyalty rate because we're just trying to get to the right people. No product is for everyone, right? No matter how much somebody wants to tell you
00:20:39
Speaker
Holy Grail. It's a holy grail for this kind of person, right? And so that's how we try to position everything I Want to ask about your tik-tok content planning creation process none
00:20:55
Speaker
There's so many women I've talked to who have amazing presences that I'm always expecting. They're like, yes, this is my process. And everyone's, no, it's like organic, creative, overwhelming sometimes. So you plan it out ahead of time. I'm trying to carve out more time. If I could just carve out one, I want to start doing less TikTok content and more quality TikTok content because those always perform extremely well for me. I did the tanning series, like where does tanning come from? Because there's so many health influencers out here that are like tanning. It's like what humans used to do. And I'm like,
00:21:24
Speaker
No, they didn't. Let's actually look at the history. And so let's go through it. And it's the reason why we tan is partly because of Josephine Baker. She came out with the first tanning oil. Like a black woman in France. Come on guys. Like this, like humans did not used to tan because humans were just trying to survive. So it's, of course it's not. Don't be golem, right? Ricketts is a big part of where like light therapy came from because people were working in factories 24 hours a day during the industrial revolution.
00:21:50
Speaker
but again it's like that balance and that nuance where I just go I totally nerd out but when I spend a lot of time doing that and I have like rough scripts those videos always do so well but I get to do those like once a quarter right so now I'm trying to be like oh can I do it's like once a week because this is like so much fun and it's so fun getting to talk to people and engage people
00:22:07
Speaker
So I don't have any planning.
Balancing Roles and Storytelling
00:22:09
Speaker
It's absolute chaos. And lately I've been talking a lot about sunscreen because I did a video with AOC on it. But before that, I actually went to DC for a symposium. And it's actually how it all started with AOCs. I went to a symposium in DC to really understand what some of the holdups were with new sunscreen filters in the United States and to talk about how sunscreen misinformation has created this dearth of people who now don't trust science and don't trust doctors.
00:22:35
Speaker
Okay. I'm going to switch gears a little bit and I've mentioned this earlier, but like you are such a multi-hyphenate. You are a writer, editor, strategist, tech worker, aesthetician, co-founder, skin influencer. Do you ever find it's hard to sum yourself up or conversely, do you find people are trying to get you to define yourself or put yourself in a box?
00:22:57
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's really interesting when you become CEO because when I first started, I was doing a lot of the operations, the finance, the marketing, the strategy. I was doing all the social and the graphics for social. It was a lot, right? And it's like my co-founders, Marta is like a queen of partnerships, did all of our creative shoots. So any of like our produce like editorial, that's like all her and her incredible connections, like all of our partnerships, she has all creative direction for that.
00:23:24
Speaker
And it was, and Joyce obviously does all of our formulations and things like that. It was really hard at the beginning because I was like, I have no, I am so stretched thin. Like I actually don't even know what I'm like doing day to day. Like if something broke on Shopify, I would be the one in the backend. But I'm so used to working in startups. And I think that when you work at startups, you.
00:23:45
Speaker
Because my first job was at a startup and I did that for four years. And then I worked at Hearst, but I was still operating in a startup mentality because I was running Snapchat Discover, which was understaffed. I had to learn After Effects overnight.
00:23:55
Speaker
like literally overnight because we didn't have enough designers. And I realized that very quickly. I spent my life for a year working on Snapchat, Discover for Cosmo, working at the office from I would come in at 10 and I would leave at 2 a.m. And I remember our photo director came in over the weekend because she was like at this like Sun concert and she saw me just like at my computer. And I was like, hey, it was terrible. But it taught me a lot. Like now I know how to edit a video. Now I know what a cut is. Now I know how to use the entire Adobe suite.
00:24:24
Speaker
Right. Because once you learn one, you can figure out the rest. And so it was critical for my skills for do right to make things look a certain way. And I think that people always try to define you, but for me, if I were just to say in a through line, I just, I like tell stories. And I think that the one through lines is you can tell stories.
00:24:40
Speaker
in a way that is trying to be more honest, right? Because at the end of the day, I'm still selling you something, right? So I'm sure people will take Umbridge with ways that I position things no matter what I do, but I'm trying to give you as much information as possible so that you know what decision you're making. That is like my ultimate goal.
Do Skin's Branding Process
00:24:57
Speaker
And so whether I do it through the website or whether I do it through a TikTok or whether I do it through a meeting that I'm having with an investor who's telling me that I need to take part in a marketing trend, it's like ultimately I'm just trying to get that story through.
00:25:11
Speaker
You think of yourself as a storyteller. I know it's probably corny, but it is true. It's like even getting my estheticians license, like I would love to practice one day. Yes, you are helping somebody with their skin and it's more like therapeutic, but at the end of the day, you are telling them a story as well as you should be using this product. You should be using that. I think that a lot of work now, especially because storytelling has become democratized through social media, it is just a part of what everybody has to learn how to do.
00:25:37
Speaker
Yeah, I really like that. And I want to say with Dew, I love the branding so much. I called it out of a newsletter. I was writing about it a few months ago. It's like clever, it's clear, it's fun. And I listened to the glossy podcast interview where really quickly you touched on at the start you had, I think someone helped with like logo vibe, basic aesthetic. Good old Lee.
00:26:01
Speaker
And was that like a freelancer or a person you knew or someone? Yeah. Marge was just like an incredible connector. And so she got us connected to this packaging company who then got us connected to Lee. And the guy who ran the packaging company was like, Lee is really expensive. He'll never do it for you. And then I explained to him the brand and Lee was like, Oh, I want to do this. And so we gave him a percentage of the company. And so it was not a ton, but like enough for it to be where we did the math for him if we ever had an exit or
00:26:30
Speaker
ever went public or mapped out all those scenarios and he was all in and so he created our brand book because Marta does like all of our photo shoots and things like that and like visual direction and vibes of the brand but we needed somebody on the graphic space to translate that into fonts right like what is the typography and so if you look at Perpetua it's a font that's usually very legible it's using a lot of like older texts it has like more of that history piece but if you look at Cooper Black it's more from the psychedelics
00:26:59
Speaker
time, right? The seventies. And so it's about like these new researchers, new ideas, things like that. And so blending these kinds of different fonts together was really important for us. And then just the logo, ovals are not used very often in beauty design.
00:27:15
Speaker
Clarins is probably
Financial Strategies for Startups
00:27:16
Speaker
the only one and they do it sideways, right? But it's like a half oval and they don't even use it very often. But for us, we wanted that iconocracy very distinct and for you to be drawn in and feel luxury, right? Because I think that skincare has almost become a little bit too serious, right? Where it's like science. And of course it's science, right? It's really important to remind people of science, but it's not medication. It is not a prescription. It is something that can histologically change your skin.
00:27:41
Speaker
But it should also be fun and inspiring and draw you in. That's why we call our moisturizer instant angel because it's fun. And then we can describe it underneath. It's a lipid rich cream, right? Or deliverance, a serum that tackles many things, but it's like it delivers your skin from whatever sin you did over the weekend, me trying to do two chemical pills back to back with Trent, deliverance.
00:28:07
Speaker
The three lines are amazing. That's so fascinating that you were like, let's do it as a percentage of the company. What was the process? Were there a lot of iterations? Listen, do you know how many investors were like, that was a terrible idea. That was a terrible idea. And I'm like, I don't come from money. I do not have a trust fund.
00:28:25
Speaker
I don't have a trust fund. I do not. And so it's not that everybody who starts a company has that, but it's like my, where my safety net is that if I go broke tomorrow, my parents would probably take me in. My sister would too, right? That is my safety net. I can't ask my parents for money. I can't ask people for money, right?
Product Development Strategies
00:28:44
Speaker
They, my family. And so I think that a lot of people who start businesses, I waited until I had a lot of money saved up.
00:28:50
Speaker
And the reason that I had a lot of money saved up is because I made career choices that would get me equity, which I could then sell. If I'd continued working in magazines, I would have never been where I am today because I wouldn't have that safety net. I was not going to take a jump into a company without having at least a year's worth of salary saved up. Yeah, it wasn't.
00:29:08
Speaker
And so for me, that was how I was paying my rent. I couldn't give all of that money over to a designer. I couldn't. It's just not in my realm of possibility. Instead, now I have this amazing advisor, somebody who is a friend of mine who I can just hit up and be like, hey, what do you think about this? And we work with him.
00:29:28
Speaker
infrequently, but it's like he created that DNA. And so I do not regret that decision at all. And I think it's really interesting when people try to give you advice and they don't understand where you come from. I totally get that. So someone who just started a company also living a saving that I like put together for a really long time to get there.
00:29:46
Speaker
maybe 36 was the year and I'm also 36. I think that's such a smart, it's such a smart, interesting thing that you guys did. So many founders hit the tough moment where you're like, I want to invest to make it viable, interesting, compelling, but I don't have the money. I need the customers first or the clients first. And that's such a, such a smart, savvy interest.
00:30:08
Speaker
approach. I love it. And our first product was something that I had a hunch would do really well, which was the forever eye mask. Yeah. And it's funny because I designed like the first version. I was like, what if we just take our logo and put it over an eye mask and do it in a way that's a little bit like blown out.
00:30:24
Speaker
And I sent it over to Lee and he was like, we need to change the color to like this green, right? So it's like a collaboration between both of us on the design of that mask, but it's actual eye mask. Like I went to a silicone manufacturer. I asked for medical grade silicone because how squishy and soft and pliant it is. And it really sticks to the face. And it's created this product, but it was also something that I was like, okay, we're going to sell it. We're going to sell it once. That's how we're going to build a base of customers because it's going to show them that we're not
00:30:51
Speaker
It would have been cheaper for me to go to contract manufacturer, get a pre-made eye mask, like a hydrogel, and just slap our name on it. But I was like, those aren't really that helpful. Eye masks help work because you use them every day, and your eye cream probably has better ingredients than the serum that's in the little pouch.
00:31:10
Speaker
And so using it every day is the most important thing. And so that's what was the genesis of all of that. But that really actually helped us fund all of our efforts because we went through a lot of our money at the beginning trying to get clinicals through on our formulas.
Defining Brand and Audience
00:31:25
Speaker
That's interesting. I was going to ask, did you launch them knowing formulated skincare products were coming? They were coming, yes. It was just taking a while because doing clinicals during 2020 was near impossible. And so we were able to get some through and it was just very challenging, right? Like we had to do testing for irritation in like different places and on the face because everybody had to wear a mask. And so it was just challenging. We started in 2018 and that's when everything kicked off. We met Joyce the end of 2018 and we did not launch deliverance until 2021.
00:31:56
Speaker
Took a while. Yeah, that's really interesting. And I guess back to the branding stage a bit, I'm really curious, do you have advice for founders who are at the defining the brand stage? I wanted to ask how much in your opinion does copy site aesthetics matter? I guess from what you've said, do you think it matters quite a lot?
00:32:16
Speaker
Yeah, I think it matters a lot. For us, we really wanted to find people that were like our energy. And so that's really what went into the branding. It's not going to be for everybody. I think that people who try to be for everybody just end up being a little bit bland, which can be really successful. There's nothing wrong with that, but I'm just not very bland. So I think your interest in studying and measuring efficacy of CBD was part of Dew's origin story. Is that right? Yeah.
00:32:40
Speaker
Because Joy thought it was total bullshit when we first met. She was like, uh-huh. And I could see her eyes just glazing over. And this is actually when I was still really
CBD's Role in Products
00:32:48
Speaker
into clean. And not even that I thought that clean. At that point, I'd already gotten out of my essential oil space and stuff like that. But with clean, I was like, we should make the formulas clean and things like that. And I could see her just being like,
00:32:58
Speaker
Cause she's like, Oh, like she was a, at this point she was working as a consultant. So she was working for a lot of brands and she's, I can make your formulas clean, but it doesn't really mean anything. And it can actually lead to worse formulations. It can lead to mold in your products. It can lead to separation of the products. And she's, I'm fine formulating without parabens. Like I, she's even though methyl parabens is found in blueberries and you eat those, she's, I can do it, but I just want you to know, if I get something that I probably won't come on full time because it's just not something that, you know.
00:33:25
Speaker
that I personally ascribe to. And I was like, interesting. So that's when I started going into it. I'm like, we don't need to put this branding anywhere near it. And with Joyce kind of studying those cannabinoids, I sent her after a meeting, like all of this literature on, there is some information that it may help with calming and soothing the skin, inflammatory responses, things like that. Because ultimately when you smoke weed that has high THC, it gets you high. We have endocannabinoid systems.
00:33:51
Speaker
these cannabinoids interact with our receptors. This is not something that's really up for debate, but how they react, the dosage, do they do much of anything? And I think the problem with cannabinoids, what happened is that a lot of brands marketed it as a miracle. They profited off of the cachet of THC, like weed, and we never really fixed any of the regulatory issues.
Evolving Brand Messages
00:34:13
Speaker
And I think it's a
00:34:15
Speaker
plant that's been maligned and that has been used to incarcerate a lot of people who did not deserve to be incarcerated and there's a lot of work that has to be done to undo the harm of the war on drugs. It's why we donate money from sales of deliverance to different efforts to minimize that harm because it's something that it's really bad how it's still an issue in the United States and it's not federally legal. But yeah, but that initial studying of cannabinoids, understanding what worked
00:34:41
Speaker
We actually tested out different percentages and they all reacted differently with the skin if you induce inflammation and irritation. And so it was really fascinating to see that. And that was step one. And that was when Joyce was like, okay, like you're willing to put in the money to actually test these things and to make sure that these products actually work. I want to come on board as a co-founder. So Joyce actually came on as a co-founder after Marcia and I started the business, but I'm so grateful that she did.
00:35:06
Speaker
I was thinking about how there's been some headlines that CBD bubble has popped and people are over CBD products. And who knows if that's true or not. I thought from a branding perspective, it seems really wise and savvy. That CBD though, an element of do was not front and center. I don't think of it as a CBD brand.
00:35:27
Speaker
It's just so hard because there are so many... I understand why people wanted to capitalize off of CBD, but from my perspective, it's an ingredient. Brands aren't built off of ingredients. Brands are built off of formulas or proprietary technology or an idea or a marketing gap, right? Right now, a lot of companies start because of marketing gaps. Glossier built the mold for this. I know that a lot of people like to rag on that brand, but I'm like,
00:35:53
Speaker
It is insane what that brand did. I am able to run a company because of what Glossier did. And so that is more of like a marketing packaging play, but there has to be something. What about CBD is unique? What about CBD is something that somebody else can't just copy? If you focus on all of your messaging on that, it's like nine centimide. I wouldn't build a brand off of nine centimide. It just doesn't make any sense. Vitamin C.
00:36:24
Speaker
What? Like it just doesn't make any sense. That was like something that we never did from the start. All this to say that we wanted to create a brand and not popularize an ingredient.
Future of AI in Branding
00:36:36
Speaker
That's so interesting. I went to this meetup and a woman in Boston, a prominent VC founder,
00:36:43
Speaker
focusing a lot on AI. What she was saying about AI is exactly what you're saying about CBD, which is that right now, folks are leading with it. It's AI, and then, oh, by the way, here's the service it does, but in a couple years, it's going to be, what's the service? Incidentally, AI is involved. It seems really savvy from a brand perspective as well to not hop on
00:37:04
Speaker
a trend just because people are interested in an ingredient. But you seem to have naturally been at the epicenter of a lot of cultural big moments like Snapchat, CBD, skincare. And I'm like, should VCs just follow you around and ask you what you're into? And is there anything right now that you're like, I'm super curious and interested about XYZ, so maybe buy some stocks, guys?
00:37:27
Speaker
I honestly don't take any advice from me for the stock market. My brain is not equipped for that. I think for me, what has always been really interesting is again, it's like what motivates people to act, right? I think that's where my brain goes and why I keep
00:37:42
Speaker
ending up in these different
Upcoming Skincare Trends
00:37:44
Speaker
spaces so for something like snapchat I was there before Instagram stories launched and you can look at my LinkedIn and see when I left and so it's always understanding like when things are happening and I think I just happen to be on the internet a lot so I see what a lot of people are talking about.
00:37:59
Speaker
But it's like with AI, where people are talking about things like replacing other people. I'm like, this is going to be a really great adjunct, and it's going to be an incredible tool for people to use. But it's not like what you just said. I really find it confusing when people just are starting to add it to absolutely everything. I'm like, this has to make me sick. Yeah. It's going to be super important to follow that, I feel like, for the next year or two. Oh, yeah.
00:38:23
Speaker
So Purdue, I know there's a new product drop coming soon and I've been talking a lot about trans-epidermal water loss. So as a dry-skinned woman, I'm very excited. Are there any predictions in skincare trends or anything related we should keep our eyes peeled for?
00:38:38
Speaker
I think last year was all about barrier repair. And I think what's really interesting is just barrier repair is just making sure that your skin is strong, right? And strong skin is skin that can tolerate retinoids and exfoliants and things like that. I think I spent a lot of time at NYSCC every year. They come twice a year. It's basically a raw material supplier day.
00:39:00
Speaker
And so you get to see all the ingredients that are going to be trending in the next couple of years or that people are trying to sell as trending in the next couple of years. People are still selling the same ingredients. They're still selling retinoids. They're still selling exfoliants, things like that that we know work. But I think that you're going to see a lot of stuff with more peptide and biotech ingredients that are trying to basically mimic what these other ingredients do, but in a more gentle way. I think that's one thing that people really want to get to. And I think that sun protection is going to become increasingly important.
00:39:30
Speaker
Um, for us with, um, our gel moisturizer, that's what the next launch is going to be. Our gel moisturizer has a ingredient in it that when paired with glycerin actually swells the skin at the dermis level, which is like a little bit deeper.
Political Education on TikTok
00:39:46
Speaker
And so that's something where it's, it really plumps out the skin in a nice way. All right. Thank you. And then final question, because the podcast is content people, what is one of your favorite pieces of content right now?
00:39:59
Speaker
Oh, I actually took down his name. Okay. Cause I looked at that question. I was like, what is not, he's not my representative, but I wish he was. Is it Jeff Jackson? I think it's Jeff Jackson. So he's a representative and I think he has the best TikTok on the planet because he just breaks down policy in a really easy way.
00:40:15
Speaker
And kind of the way that consumers shouldn't have to be scientists to understand things, you shouldn't have to be in politics to understand policy, right? We have to make these things understandable to people who are not experts in the space, and we should not be taking advantage of people who are not
Podcast Conclusion
00:40:30
Speaker
experts.
00:40:30
Speaker
in order to sway them into a certain decision. And so that is like my work in skincare. And I think that he does such a great job of breaking down policy on TikTok. And it's a real masterclass in how do you make things super easy to understand in a really compelling way. You don't have to do it with fear.
00:40:50
Speaker
I will check him out. We will link in the show notes. Yeah. Her name is Jeff Jackson. All right. Thank you. And then anything else you'd wish I'd asked that you'd want to say? Oh, so lovely chatting with you. Thank you so much, Charlotte. I really love this. Thank you. Thanks, Charlotte. All right, folks. I hope that you enjoyed that episode. Thank you so much for listening. If you liked it, please subscribe or review us. And if you want to check out our newsletter, Content People, it is in the show notes. See you next time. Bye.