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The Trail Less Traveled: Tyla Windham on Grit, Growth, and Family
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In this episode of the Peak Pursuits Podcast, James catches up with Tyla Windham, an elite trail runner with an inspiring journey that’s anything but ordinary.
From tearing it up on dirt bikes to mastering mountain bikes, Ironman triathlons, and now ultra-running, Tyla’s athletic journey is one of resilience, passion, and relentless evolution. Fresh from an impressive race at the Buffalo Stampede 100K, Tyla shares candid insights into the highs, lows, and gritty realities of competing at an elite level while balancing his roles as a carpenter, father, and husband.
We unpack his strategies for managing intense training schedules alongside demanding physical work, the transformative power of strength training, and the mindset shifts that have elevated his race performance and life balance.
If you’re curious about optimising performance, overcoming adversity, and finding harmony between professional ambitions and personal life, this deep-dive with Tyla Windham is essential listening.
Vlad’s Strength For Trail Runners
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Thanks for tuning in to Peak Pursuits! Connect with us on Instagram @peakpursuits.pod to share your thoughts, questions, and trail stories. Until next time, keep hitting the trails and chasing those peak pursuits!
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Overview
00:00:15
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Peep Pursuits podcast. My name is James Sieber and today i am joined by Tyler Wyndham. Tyler is your recent third place male finisher at the Buffalo Stampede 100K, running 30 minutes faster than his second place finish from last year.
00:00:31
Speaker
Tyler has only been in trail running for the last 18 months, yet comes to the sport with a long background in marathon and multi-hour mountain biking, cross triathlon and Ironman. In today's podcast, we learn all about Tyler's background.
00:00:45
Speaker
how his dad's representation at the Winter Paralympic Games and his first coach Jesse Featonby helped shape him as an athlete, the pragmatic and disciplined approach to training he needs to take as a dad, husband and carpenter, and the lessons learned from a busy and varied introduction to trails.
Balancing Training and Life
00:01:01
Speaker
Whether you're juggling training with a busy life or curious about what it takes to compete at the top, Tyler's honest reflections and practical advice offer something for everyone. With that, let's get to the conversation with Tyler Windham.
00:01:14
Speaker
Tyler Windham, welcome to the Peak Pursuits podcast. are you going? Not too bad yourself, thanks James. Yeah, yeah, doing well. i'm ah I'm still recovering from the weekend at Buffalo, so I can only imagine what it's like for someone that's run 100k.
Post-Race Recovery and Work
00:01:30
Speaker
How's the energy feeling this week?
00:01:32
Speaker
Not too bad. Luckily I had Monday off and then straight back into it on Tuesday. I was building a set of stairs and then mixing concrete on Wednesday, so No real escape. How does the recovery of the 100, is that impacting your work this week or you're able to manage it? ah There's yeah, I just got to suck it up and just get to work. So it is what it is.
00:01:53
Speaker
the The joys of working full time and trying to compete as well. I guess it's people listening to this all over the country will be ah feeling that pain on Monday or Tuesday after their races.
00:02:05
Speaker
Yeah, I think yeah everyone definitely feels the same pain after a race, no matter what level you're at.
Pre-Race Stress Management
00:02:10
Speaker
Yeah, 100%. ah Obviously, we're we're recording this on the Friday after Buffalo, so we might as well start there.
00:02:18
Speaker
Michael Dunstan has put out a really great recap of his race on Substack that touches on a couple of moments that you guys shared together in the first 30K. Yeah. which we will have a chat about it depending on if you bring speak to them first or not but if you can run us through not just the race but I'm also curious the the week before obviously you're still working you've got your son your wife kind of what your wife Bree was racing as well so just take us through that whole process and what it's like and then the race itself so yeah luckily
00:02:54
Speaker
Two weeks out, daycare blessed us with gastro. So we had a bit of stress leading into that. We tried to avoid it for as long as we could and then, yeah, it ended up hitting us. um Then, yeah, just added it, thought of it as a bit of an extra taper. So didn't stress too much. And then, yeah, just race week, the same routine. Try playing everything as early as you can.
00:03:14
Speaker
um Make sure everything's packed Wednesday night and then that way there's nothing to stress about on the last night. And then, yeah, we just headed up Friday and, checked in and got ready for my race on Saturday.
00:03:26
Speaker
Before you before you you keep going, so did you get gastro or was it just your son? Yes, Chase had it on Friday night and then I walked in and to check on him and said, it's okay, mate. And all of a sudden I smelled the gastro and was like, oh no, it's hit the house. so I ended up with it Tuesday night. So luckily it was only really 24 hours, which was a quick turnaround. So just a bit of a last minute race wake up. And how do you, it'd be so easy to get fixated on that and like use that to create an excuse for the day or for the lead up.
00:04:00
Speaker
How do you like manage those thoughts or if they even happen for you? ah Yeah, they did creep into your head, but at the same time, like you just think the work's done. You've done it in the last four months leading in. So what's going to happen in the last two weeks, as long as it's nothing major, won't define your race. So just sort of there's a bit of an extra paper and just tried to refuel, rehydrate as much as I could when my stomach could accept stuff.
00:04:22
Speaker
Was it just that 24 hours that your stomach was... Not happy? Yeah, just 24 hours basically. So luckily it was only a small window. Yeah, luckily. ah Cool. And then that takes us through, you've got everything ready.
00:04:36
Speaker
im Coming down to Bright on Friday, catch up, you do a little pre-racing for me. So thank you again for that. How are the nerves feeling at that point? ah Yeah, the nerves kind of, they always creep in kind of race week, but at the same time, like I think I enjoy it and it's all part of racing. So you just got to accept it and just try stay as calm as you can because it's wasted energy that you can't put towards race day yeah and then race day itself can you give us a a run through of how the day went for you ah so yeah we had a big pay big crew of people staying at the house we had sam who was helping me out with crewing and also was taking a fair few photos throughout the day so he was probably best on ground um
00:05:18
Speaker
And then Bree and then we had another friend, Isaac, saying, so we all jumped in the car and headed down. And it's pretty doom and gloom. And then from there, we just, I went off and did my own thing and tried to warm up and just tried to get away and take a deep minute and, ah sorry, take a minute and just relax as much as I could before walking up to the start line where there's a lot of nervous energy.
00:05:39
Speaker
um And then, yeah, from there, the gun went off. and In Michael's sub stack, he speaks a lot about ah he puts conscious time for the 10 days prior in a mindfulness app.
00:05:51
Speaker
Is there any like strategies that you've routinely put in place? Because as we'll come to later, like you've been at a high level in sport for quite a long time, albeit not in trails. I think I just, yeah. ah My first coach, Jesse Featonby, taught me that you just got to believe in the work that you do and trust yourself. that What you're setting out to do on race day laid foundations for in training. So,
00:06:12
Speaker
There's nothing that you can stress about. if you're stressing about that, you probably haven't done the right things in the lead up in the build. That's yeah very good advice. i The first 30K or so running from the start line your Robin, I said, you youre you were in a bit of a pack running with Michael Dunstan, one of the relay runners. I think Tom Dade was in there as well.
00:06:35
Speaker
not Knowing that you're only a third of the way into the hundred k How are you approaching that that early stage? So yeah, once we hit Emily's spare, I ended up right next to Michael and we ended up having a bit of a chat, just going up the spare, talking about the weather and the rain and everything. And then from there, we just kept talking the whole way to you, Robin. So, and before we knew it, we were literally there. So ah it was pretty cool. We had, I forget the team's runner's name, but he was literally not even a K from the top. And he's like, I don't think I can make it. Well, I come on, mate, you've got it. So
00:07:05
Speaker
It cool to see him dig in. We thought he was yo-yoing a fair bit for a while there, but he just dug deep and got to the top. And it was pretty cool to see him just then hit us on the downs and off he went. as of i can for that For that runner, having two people that are at the top top of the game egging you on to be like, come mate, you can do this. It's got to be a pretty pretty special moment. And obviously showed him he can do a bit more than he's capable of, even if it was probably very painful at that point. and Again, referencing Michael's subside, he had an issue where his nutrition was not a clear spot that he was planning to take due to, I think he said, where the weather conditions, ah making it hard to get up there. And then reflected on the fact that you offered him nutrition and then later on when he dropped to jail,
00:07:50
Speaker
You waited for him. I feel like that approach, though trail running is so friendly, it's potentially not something people would expect the two men fighting for what was first place at that point to do. Just run run me through kind of what's going through your head at that point and what your priorities are and how you thought about that process.
Camaraderie in Trail Running
00:08:09
Speaker
ae That early on in the race, I just really wanted to be with Michael, just knowing that he would also help me with pacing strategy. um Plus also I respect him a lot and like what's five seconds to literally stand there and wait for him to come back up after he's picked up his gels like,
00:08:25
Speaker
There's nothing really to gain when you're attacking in the feed. It used to be the same when you were cycling. You'd never ever attack anyone when they were getting drink bottle or anything like that. So just you respect your competitors because they could do the same to you and you would like to be on the return end of it.
00:08:39
Speaker
You mentioned your pacing and going out with that sort of more relaxed mindset, I guess, through this section. Before the race, when we were chatting for the review, you said that one of the lessons you were taking from 2024 was to essentially pace it pace it better a lot along with using poles. That pacing strategy, was that very much the those early stages is where you you needed to make the changes?
00:09:03
Speaker
I felt I really needed to make the changes going up the big walk, which is when Michael went, I was like, I could potentially go with him and hang on like he was climbing super strong. But I thought if I went, I'd potentially affect the back end of my race.
00:09:16
Speaker
So I thought I'll just let him go, do my own thing. I'm a lot more comfortable on more of the running sort of stuff than what I am on the super steep prolonged climbs. So was more comfortable in the early 30Ks of the race then I planned to get to the top and then go across the top of the from the chalet heading out to Cresta and then up to the top for the horn, pretty solid.
00:09:38
Speaker
And then coming back down and then, yeah, save some legs for dingoes. And that was the plan. What eventuated? I got to the top of the big walk and Sam was there and I said, oh, it's very slippery. I need to be careful just on these rocks just going down towards, I think it's the monolith track or waterfall.
00:09:58
Speaker
And then, yeah, next minute I knew I left the Aiden about two k's later. I was flat on my face and slammed my ankle on the rock. Okay. So that's going to throw a bit of a spanner in the works. And did that damage your ankle? like Could you feel that for the rest of the race at that point?
00:10:14
Speaker
yeah I sat on the side of the trails for about five minutes wondering if I'd even push on like it was throbbing. I tried to hobble for a bit and walk and then I had to stop again. So I was just happy to make it to the end of the race. And then once I got going, it felt all right running, but I just couldn't climb because i couldn't put any pressure on my toes because it would load up my ankle.
00:10:35
Speaker
Wow. Okay. I, like we caught, I had a check quickly after the race to you, but I didn't realize it was quite that bad. Again, curious you sat there on the side of the track for five minutes you've been in that place before where ah fall has derailed your ah your event what are you going through like what checklist are you doing in your head to go okay as you know i can keep going here versus i need to pull out i got moving and just evaluated it from there and then probably felt
00:11:05
Speaker
more obliged to finish it after what happened at Cozzy last year. So I just thought I can run. I've got friends and family here watching and supporting me. So yeah, just thought I thought I've got to make to the finish line and yeah, running down the finish line shoot and shoot, you just forget all about what's happened in the last 11 and a half hours before then.
00:11:22
Speaker
And we didn't say at the start, but you still finished third. You ran here, I think roughly 30 minutes faster than your time from last year. 37 minutes faster.
00:11:37
Speaker
Arguably the course, I'm sure the arguments for slightly faster, slightly slower course. not looking at the ankle but the rest of the race as a whole how do you feel like the day went for you yeah the day for me it was yeah I definitely obviously as a racer you want to do a lot better but crossing the finish line at the end of the day and still achieving better than what you'd done previously is always a bonus um Just gives you extra things to work on towards the next race and extra motivation to keep now on the one percenters and try get better.
00:12:11
Speaker
Cool. I like it, man. it's There's a lot of takeaways, I think, in there for anyone listening, for myself, that there's always something that can be taken away from a race like this. And objectively,
Tyler's Sports Journey
00:12:23
Speaker
you still had a really good day. So obviously, there's a lot to take away. But even if...
00:12:27
Speaker
as long as you're safe to continue there's a lot of other things that you can take off and take pride in at the by the finish line so no it was a it was great to follow it was great see you still get that pb obviously in the pre-race show i did put you down as my favorite i have a bit of local bias because we live in the same town but i genuinely do believe that you have that capacity i think if you're still running 11 hours 20 and you're basically yeah half half the remaining course you feel like you can't really accelerate on and such it's a very impressive run um so well done pulling back we've kind of touched on this a little bit already but you have quite an interesting history in different sport which i found very interesting
00:13:11
Speaker
It's very intriguing to learn about for how it has shaped you now as an athlete. Take us like back, motorbikes, cross tri, Ironman, just sort of share your journey to where you got to 2023 and moving into trail running.
00:13:26
Speaker
ah So yeah, we grew up racing motocross, which was cool. We used to let up the van and just disappear on the weekends and go to all the races. um It was a real family sport, which was great. And also I've met a lot of great friends, which I'm still keeping in contact with.
00:13:41
Speaker
um but then yeah got to 18 and mom and dad stopped paying and you realize how dear this is so stopped doing that and then when we would race motocross we'd cross train and mountain bike ride so in 2015 i got a mountain bike and thought oh went to my first race just for something to do um once a racer always a racer i suppose but then from there did that and then i just yeah got hooked sort of thing i did the local three hour and had no idea about nutrition or anything like that and i had probably well three hours of probably the worst riding i've ever had in my life up there on the hill um you just yeah when you blow your blow sort of thing so after that i then yeah just got right into it and started doing 15 hours a week training sort of thing
00:14:30
Speaker
And then from there, I met Jesse, who ended up being a coach, but he's also a great friend and a person that I really looked up to as he was competing in an elite level in cycling on the road, but also worked full time as a teacher and just yes really taught me that like when you're there, you get your work and then you get it done sort of thing. And then once you step through the door, it's just back to normal life. Interesting. So 2015, how old were you then?
00:14:57
Speaker
I think I would have been 21 or so 23 okay and at which point did you get connected with Jesse yeah I see ah Jesse is a bit of a local sporting identity and I'd heard about him and then yeah was out on a bunch ride in the start of 2016 and we to do what was called like a Tuesday night world cup and you'd ride out and turn around swap off coming back in and yeah met him there and then all of a sudden we turned around and it was full noise and he was at the one in the front driving the bunch Being coached by Jesse at what was a pretty young age, and he said, he's essentially a role model, someone you look look up to. I know someone that you're very close friends with now, especially.
00:15:35
Speaker
How much about the way that you approach the sport from that point forward was shaped by having Jesse as your coach? see yeah When we first started coaching, Jesse asked me what I wanted to try and achieve in the sport and what my goals were.
00:15:48
Speaker
and yeah We just come up with a bit of a list and From there, he just said, like, it's not going to be overnight sort of thing. going to to work towards it and it could take two or three years before you achieve it.
00:15:59
Speaker
Which, yeah, kind of, I think we started middle of 2016 and then just started working together and it was great. He was a coach, a friend, plus also a training partner. He'd come out and train and ride. And towards the end of 2017, I said I'd really like to try to qualify for the World Marathon Champs and Yeah, we ended up coming up with a bit of a plan to try achieve that and ended up achieving that in 2019.
00:16:24
Speaker
Which is an incredibly impressive feat like to represent your country at any point. Before, because I do do want to talk about it before I get there though, can you just kind of like explain to me what exactly the different types in the cross country world there are? kind Marathon, saw you did a six hour ride. There was one where you did like 160K or something in the Yu Yangs.
00:16:44
Speaker
Sort of what what was your thing in all of that? Ah, so yeah, there's, Essentially like short, long and medium course sort of thing, like in trial running. There's XCO, which is an hour and a half, which is what you see at the Olympics.
00:16:57
Speaker
And then there's three hour, which is kind of like your middle distance. And then there's six hour or marathon, which is kind of like your ultras long sort of stuff, like your 100k thing. Yeah, okay. And what what drew you to the marathon distance?
00:17:12
Speaker
Probably just the challenge. I enjoyed going out there and just the adventure that you go on from start to finish. It's um definitely journey when you're out there all day and what you come across, what goes through your mind, plus also how far you can push your body.
00:17:26
Speaker
Yeah. And I noticed as well, going back through your Instagram that it looks like currently your nutrition is through precision. You're one of the sponsored athletes have been 2023, but I think but right about the right time. And, but previously you with goo energy bike back in that, in that era, how much had your nutrition changed both working through Jesse and with, with goo from that first three hour ride when they were doing, doing nothing.
00:17:53
Speaker
yeah When I started working with Jesse, he just said, you've got to start fueling, like your body's literally an engine and you got to start thinking that as that. So he literally would go out and just taught me to just eat solids on the bike because back in the day, you just take out fruit loaf and whatnot on the bike. It was easier to ride, whereas you can't really have that when you're running. So yeah. Yeah.
00:18:14
Speaker
just from And from early on, he taught me that you've got to fuel yourself to train plus also to recover. Sounds like a very good man to have in your corner. um yeah thing i feel like especially ah at that age, it was quite a privilege to have somebody come into your life with the expertise, but also just be by sounds of it. And I know him as well, genuinely good person, which is brilliant.
00:18:37
Speaker
Again, reading your Instagram, the well the the chance to represent the world team for Australia, really seemed to be this pinnacle goal that you had at that point. And he said that's what you said to Jesse was your main thing.
00:18:54
Speaker
What was it like, a to race at those champs, but also to put the green and gold on and to represent your country? What did that feel like for you?
National Pride and Family Legacy
00:19:01
Speaker
Yeah, I remember when I got selected, I told my dad and he was over the moon. He actually went to the Paralympics for snow skiing.
00:19:08
Speaker
he's kind of helped to find who I was in terms of like my mentality with sport and that whatever you set out to do, you can achieve. So he was over the moon and it felt kind of cool like he'd done it and then also following in his footsteps.
00:19:22
Speaker
Yeah, that's amazing. do you know what discipline he did in the Olympics? ah He went over and in the Paralympics and went to compete in the giant slalom. Really cool.
00:19:33
Speaker
That's my history, so I always get a bit excited when I hear someone talking about their skiing. But that's amazing. I didn't realise that's really cool. It must have been quite quite a moment for him back back then. And so represent the country at the world champs, at the cross country, like in the mountain bike marathon.
00:19:49
Speaker
And then it seems like you kind of pivot. COVID obviously is in this interim period that throws everything out and yet you come out the other side of it looking more at Ironman and cross try.
00:20:01
Speaker
What happened in that that period to change that? I'd always wanted to do an Ironman or Black 70.3 and I think when COVID hit, I just realized that it's not as certain that you'll be able to do it one day sort
COVID-19 and New Challenges
00:20:15
Speaker
of thing. So when COVID hit, I just thought, oh, well, I've achieved what I wanted to in mountain biking, if I was to keep pursuing it, it would also become a bit more, I'd have to look at potentially giving up a bit of work and stuff like that. And just thought, why not just do Ironman?
00:20:32
Speaker
The model that they had was really good for racing in terms of racing in Australia and everything like that. So i just thought, why not give it a go? But it wasn't an instant decision sort of thing. I really enjoyed cycling and all the friends I'd made through that. And then jumping sport across was something that you have to, there's also like you've to learn how to swim, you got to start running. It's a whole nother different pool game compared to just cycling.
00:20:57
Speaker
And prior to that 2022, 2021 era, were you at all a swimmer or a runner? ah No, I could not swim at all. I actually remember my partner, Bree, she was a swimmer and she used take me to the pool and absolutely tower me up every single swim. I used to not be happy, like I'd jump in the pool and I'd just I used to think swimming a K was a massive feat back in the day before I started swimming.
00:21:22
Speaker
Wow. ah Remind me what the um the leg distances are for Ironman. ah So Ironman swims 3.8 Ks, 180 Ks on the bike and then a marathon off that.
00:21:34
Speaker
It's quite impressive to be able to go from not a swimmer, not a runner in a relatively short period to being able to compete at a pretty good level like you got in your your pro card i think that's what it's called and um yeah rat ah did a nine hour ironman was it hard to get good that quick and that stuff or good enough that quickly uh it was definitely a lot of time in the pool like my mentality is if you want to get good at something you just got to work towards it so i think i went from swimming nothing to then swimming
00:22:07
Speaker
like 14 k's a week and it wasn't fun but i also tried to align myself with people that were a lot better than me to try help push me to strive to get better um so just anything that like same with running just surround yourself with better runners to help push you to help get better what what were you doing for work at that period i was working as a carpenter So how you doing, saying 14 hours a week of swimming, plus there's riding, plus there's running in there?
00:22:33
Speaker
14Ks, sorry. Oh, okay, 14Ks. Yes. But even so, i I have no clue how long. 14Ks would probably take me 14 hours. But how how do you fit that all in, and even now as well? ah Yeah, a lot of early starts, a lot of coffee. But back then, it was just Bree and I, so we didn't have a lot of other responsibilities. so and then, yeah.
00:22:55
Speaker
Towards the end, triathlon training becomes very time consuming and it also eats up a lot of your life. So that's why I switched to trail running. And before we come to trails, at the same time as doing the Ironman, did two falls, 70.3.
00:23:12
Speaker
you're also doing the cross try which one were you feeling more drawn towards because seemingly looking at the the results at least you had a third place and then a second place at the australian champs for cross try on paper it looks like that's more your your bucket um no i definitely like the cross track on the sport is a lot smaller than i'm in but i'm in is just the pinnacle so that's what if you want to see where you're at against the professionals and who get paid do it for a living and what the peak of the sport is. That's what I thought. I'd just get in and try race those. Plus, coming from mountain biking, the cross tri, which is a mountain bike and then a tri run, I enjoyed that.
00:23:53
Speaker
But there's only two events in Australia at the moment. the ah One in Dunsborough, which is on the same weekend as Buffalo Stampede, and then the cross tri up at Krakenbach.
00:24:06
Speaker
I was wondering why you weren't still doing them and that sport, but is that one of the, one of the, at least more contributing factors? ah It's just the time. Triathlon takes up so much your time. Like training for cycling doing like 15, 18 hours a week. and that was a lot sort of thing you felt like. And then you go to doing Ironman training and whatnot, you're 22 to 25 hours a week of training. And then you go to running and you,
00:24:33
Speaker
You can do 12 hours and it feels like it's a breeze. I think you're probably the first person and to say that 12 hours of running is a breeze on the podcast, but but I completely get what what you mean. It would free up like you just half the amount of training time that you would have to do.
Professionalism in Trail Running
00:24:48
Speaker
i am... Curious, Vlad and I on one of the main episodes a couple of weeks ago, we were talking about the potential pathways that trail running can take. Specifically, we were talking about Western states and how they have very limited field sizes and so many elites want to go into there and what potential options therefore are available.
00:25:11
Speaker
to like manage the two expectations of the the general public wanting to race the race, but also all the elites wanted to race the race and having this real combination of the top of the sport.
00:25:24
Speaker
how How does it work for the triathlon world? I'm assuming they had have had or still have similar similar challenges. i With the triathlon world, it's pretty lucky.
00:25:38
Speaker
ah Apply for your pro card and then once you get that, you then are eligible to race certain races. And while they still have certain entries that they can fill up, There's also a lot more races, so they never seem to fill up as much.
00:25:50
Speaker
But with the sport growing and a lot more people getting their pro card because the sport's becoming a lot professional, there's a lot more money in it, it looks like. i haven't been in it for two years, but it makes it more like you see, as remember when I first started, like you go to it and you see all the pros lining up, they take off and race.
00:26:12
Speaker
And then for me, I wanted to try... compare myself to them. So it helped push me to get better. um And then from there, you then once you achieve the times that they deem satisfactory to get your pro license, you then can apply for it.
00:26:29
Speaker
Okay. And that time, is that worked off just like a set time or is it a percentage back from the the winner? It was a percentage back from the winner. So the winner's time and then you had to be within a certain percent of their time. So it helped.
00:26:44
Speaker
If you were striving to do it, it also pushed to get, like it just meant that you raced to the finish line. You wouldn't coast in sort of thing like some people do. Like if they're in their age group and they were in a position and they felt confident, they might deck coast in. But if you were trying to progress and get better and compete in the elites, it made you push to the line.
00:27:05
Speaker
yeah Plus, that also helped push everyone else in the age group quicker. Do you think there's anything that trail running, from the perspective of somebody that's pretty new to the sport but has this elite background across triathlon, is there anything that you think that trail running potentially could benefit from implementing or a pathway maybe for it?
00:27:28
Speaker
ah Yeah, there could be like a potential for a pathway, but The thing is you just have to have enough people who wanted to compete in the elite field. If you only have like 10 people that want to line up at a race in the elite field, it makes it a bit harder.
00:27:44
Speaker
But once you've got potential for a lot people that want to potentially hold a elite license, if it was to go that way, it could help grow the sport. It could bring more money into it. It could help lift the sport to level up because there's a lot more potential for people that No, they mightn't place in if there was people that were to go to the elite field and then makes them want to race for their race because they have the potential for winning their age group.
00:28:11
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That makes sense. so Um, yeah, I appreciate you entertaining my, uh, my question on that. i'm always kind of curious, especially as we come up towards the the Western States this year, especially with the golden ticket races, it's just, uh, it's on my mind about what the next 10 years of the sport potentially could look
Choosing a 100K Race
00:28:29
Speaker
like. And I would have thought we would draw that from what other sports have done. So it's fun to fun to chat.
00:28:36
Speaker
I will move us on now to 2023. that you've already mentioned you've moved into trails i did see one one post that mentioned doing a 50k around maybe july august time did that happen uh no that was probably the sickest i've been in a month span and i ended up with pneumonia and then um ended up with gastro for a week so pulled the pin on that one Okay.
00:29:03
Speaker
So that then means that the plan 50K doesn't happen. You've come into the sport. You do obviously have this ultra endurance background, but not in running, well, not solely in running.
00:29:14
Speaker
And the logical step is to choose ultra trail Kosciuszko 100K as your first trail race. Why? um I really wanted to do something and at the end of the year and I thought, oh, just do 100 and then I can finish the rest the year off and coast into Christmas. um And I think it scared me enough that I was nervous to do that sort of thing. I think running a 50K, I would happily do that as a bit of a training run sort of thing when I was training for it. Like I remember running back from Beechworth to Albury and I was comfortable doing that. So I thought, oh,
00:29:51
Speaker
I'll just see how I go, like, why not? Okay. And that first 100K, what sort of approach did you come into it with? Because obviously, yeah, trail running is very different to triathlon.
00:30:04
Speaker
Yeah, a bit different. i Coming off Ironman training, i was only running like 70Ks a week. So all in the lead up, I was only running a hundred ks a week, but I was still cycling twice a week and doing...
00:30:16
Speaker
two sessions on the bike just to help with my aerobic conditioning. um I just didn't want to load up my legs too much and beat them to a pulp. Okay, so you weren' you you weren't doing any intensity in running, you were just putting the focus on the volume there?
00:30:31
Speaker
Yes, just the conditioning in the legs.
Injury Prevention Transition
00:30:34
Speaker
Interesting. and And that's not necessarily the approach that you have kept, that was just a transition period that you knew that your body would better work with? Yeah, I just didn't want to, like going back to the what Jesse taught me earlier on, like you don't want to rush in and do anything because it's not going to happen overnight. And my partner's a physio and I was warned multiple times that you will get injured if you just go all in on it. And yeah, my mentality, I definitely would have ended up injured. A good partner to have there.
00:31:01
Speaker
ah And then Cozzy, it didn't go as you wanted. What happened on that day? um ah i took off and as yeah probably racing too aggressive and then i ended up until my ankle and i remember i ran on it for 30 k's because i did it 20 k's in and yeah i just couldn't run and i was like i'm not kind of push myself to the finish line. I've got to work on Monday. um And then, yeah, I just didn't want to do it just to say that I'd finished it for that reason and then be struggling to work.
00:31:36
Speaker
But I'm assuming you came away from, even if you've only made it that far, still with a lot of takeaways, lessons about trail running specifically. that right? Yeah, one of the takeaways that I took away from it was that it's a very different to triathlon and mountain biking sort of thing. The starts are a bit more relaxed.
00:31:55
Speaker
um in the terms of that not everything's as full gas straight out of the gun. um like But at the end of the day, I took a wrong step and ended up on my face again.
00:32:07
Speaker
I am guessing, you've already said actually, that the the more technical running is not what comes naturally to you. That makes complete sense, that your engine is your strength, not your technical capacity on trails. The nutrition side of it, this is one that I'm really interested in because, as you already mentioned, you can go for a ride and have fruit loaf, but you would struggle to do that, at least for your main source of nutrition during a run. You've been working with Precision since 2023.
00:32:35
Speaker
Was there quite a big learning curve into how you have to look at nutrition for trail running? ah Probably when I was doing triathlon, it started to come out with all the Norwegians you've got to hit massive numbers of carbs per hour and you want to be doing at least 120. It seems like that's what they're all banging on about. Yeah.
00:32:55
Speaker
I think the one thing that I learned with trial running is it's fine to do it when you're cycling and doing triathlon. But in terms of when you're running, like your stomach's just jiggling the whole day, like it's just bouncing around. So you can't just have it consistently. You have to look at the course from time to time and also all your dosage back based on the way that you're feeling.
00:33:17
Speaker
Like within it's rear running on a flat road, it's consistent. Whereas when you're going downhill, you're just bouncing up and down and I definitely learnt that at Buffalo last year that you can't just, when I was cycling, I'd just have a timer and every 10 minutes it'd go off and I'd have a drink and have a bit of a gel and that was that. But when you try running, you can't do that.
00:33:37
Speaker
It's very different in terms of your body, can accept it, it can reject it based on what the terrain is. Yeah. Yeah, okay. Was it a hard – were there quite a few um accidents as you transitioned into trails or just sort of learning that?
00:33:55
Speaker
ah Not – I wouldn't say it was accidents. stuff Your body definitely can reject it from time to time. um And, yeah, just learned – like I did Buffalo last year and I struggled to keep nutrition down from – the crest are out so and from there i just realized that running up and then going down through the cascades where the waterfall where i had the fall this year like your stomach's just vibrating and if you're front and load it like coming down snake ridge and everything it can bounce around and whatnot so okay i just yeah learned from that you have to pick wisely what sort of nutrition you're taking in what area of the course
00:34:35
Speaker
You got second place last year at Buffalo, 100k. On the face of that, your second 100k, the first one you've DNF'd, this one you've got second in ah in a really strong field. Again, it looks like a great result. But as you just said, there's been challenges again with your stomach on there.
00:34:55
Speaker
When you came away from Buffalo, had you he changed how you going to view trails, your training, your mindset towards it, how you raced? Because that being the first race that you finished, executed well enough but not fully got what you need
UTA 50 Experience
00:35:11
Speaker
out of it.
00:35:11
Speaker
After Buffalo, I just thought, oh, what can I do now sort of thing. So ah then got an entry for UTA 50 and then I thought, I'd head up there and just see how i went off the back of that. And just the more racing experience you get is where you learn the most about yourself, I think. yeah um And then, yeah, from there, just started building towards a bit more speed because it was a bit shorter coming off the back of the hundred k And, yeah, was very happy with how went.
00:35:40
Speaker
Kept everything down there with the stairs too is a bit of a challenge. So keeping the nutrition down on that was good. And then, yeah, just wasn't a fan of the stairs at the end. okay ah You had a great seventh place finish there, a fast time.
00:35:57
Speaker
Did you enjoy that distance and duration more than the 100 or much the same? ah Yeah, it's very different in terms of you're literally flirting with the red zone the whole day in like 50k race sort of thing. You're just teetering there right on the edge, here pushing as hard as you can, but trying not to blow, whereas You're more thinking about not going too hard so that you can still be strong at the end.
00:36:22
Speaker
yeah Yeah, definitely. i enjoy the 50K. I'd like to do a few more of them, but the 100K, I enjoy just the mental challenge of it and plus also the journey that you go on.
00:36:35
Speaker
Are you intrigued by going further than 100K? The miler? Yeah. Yeah. Look, I would like to do one, but for me, the main thing is I'd want, like, if I could work during the week, I wouldn't want to do it and then put myself in a hole that I can't work. um That's, I think, 100K is the way that you race it. You can do it. As long as you fuel correctly, you can recover and then get back to work pretty well straight away.
00:37:02
Speaker
But I've just heard of a few complications health-wise and, to me, being able to go to work and, then come home and play with Chase is probably more important than running 100 miles.
00:37:13
Speaker
That's totally understandable. It reminds me actually speaking to Patricia McGibbon, and We spoke for quite a long time about the challenge of being a parent, but also wanting to compete at ah level, which means that you have to be somewhat selfish with your time and put this energy into training that you could be putting into your family or spending time at home.
00:37:34
Speaker
Is that something that you're thinking about and how do you manage those feelings?
Training and Family Balance
00:37:42
Speaker
Yes, something that should definitely think about like,
00:37:45
Speaker
it's potentially time that you're taking away from spending with Chase. so And also my partner, Brie, the amount of times that I wish I could just hit snooze and sleep in sort of thing. But being an endurance athlete, you have to be very selfish with your time from time to time.
00:38:01
Speaker
I don't think you have to be middle of the day, go for your run. like You've got 24 hours in a day. If you can, get up at 5 o'clock and do it. Go do it then when everyone else is sleeping and then come home and do it then.
00:38:12
Speaker
yeah okay it sounds like you're able to be really quite pragmatic with it and just be like okay these are my goals to achieve these goals i need to do this and brie's happy i feel like i'm ticking the box very well as a dad so that's okay is that kind of like how you view it brie's probably my biggest supporter in terms of even since back when i was mountain bike riding the amount of times she'd come along and stood in a dirty paddock and passed me drink bottles when I was racing there. So she's been there since day one supporting me with my sporting career. And it's, yeah, with Chase coming along, it's also made it a bit harder with the time, but we try to work it together as much as we can. Like Bree has her time that she sets out to do. Like she ran the marathon and ah was proud of her. She got it done and she actually got a surprise entry for that. We didn't tell her she was doing it until she got the email.
00:39:09
Speaker
So it is harder when there's two of you trying to train for whatever you're setting out to do. But I think it's a very selfish sport and there needs to be times where you need to weigh up. Like, is it worth going for a run or are the jobs around the house going to get done and stuff like that? Because the chores are around and time with Chase is never going to be there at the end of the day. Like, he's only grown up once.
00:39:33
Speaker
So... Yeah, you just have to try and fit it in with your schedule and be okay with passing up on opportunities. And so is is it more, it's it's the extra stuff that gets passed up, the the social engagements or the the other hobbies that you might have. Is that what kind of has to go? more now moreta in terms of like you have to be okay with getting up at 5 o'clock on a Saturday morning and going for a run and then coming home at 7 o'clock and where you can go out and do her sort of thing. Like it's all part of it when you're working in together.
00:40:03
Speaker
um I think, yeah, I'm probably, ah I've got the better end of the deal in terms of I get the long run on Sunday mornings, but that's three hours that I get essentially sort of thing. but I try get up and to get it done as early as I can so I can come home and then spend time with Chase and Bree and make the most of our weekends.
00:40:23
Speaker
That time that you do get to yourself, is that something that especially once being a dad, like obviously I and i know there'll be so many wonderful things about being dad, but I can also imagine that you you do lose that time to just you or just you and Bree.
00:40:34
Speaker
Do you really relish that that three hours like that you get to yourself or with your friends? Yeah. not really like i still love coming home and seeing chase every day sort of thing and then being able to get to get up and go for a run in three hours i think i cherish it and i just try to make the most of it and get to the trailhead do what i got to do then literally get in the car drive home not like when you cycle you could go to the cafe you could hang out and talk but now there's no time for that it's literally
00:41:05
Speaker
get up, train, come home and then get back to life sort of thing. And aside from the the timing, what other considerations do you put towards your training given the fact that you work a physical job that starts early and you've got Chase and Bree at home but plus trying to get all this training in?
00:41:23
Speaker
What what what do you need to consider or do you feel like you need to consider for that? I just make sure that I try like meal prep the night before for lunch. make sure I've got enough fuel for the day. So until get home, I literally walk in the door and Chase says, come on, let's go.
00:41:39
Speaker
and then it's, yeah, full on from there sort of thing. So you just learn that even like when you're out long running, you make sure like you used to be able to last 10 minutes, not have a gel, but that last gel 10 minutes helps a lot when you get home and he just wants to get home and go full nose. So, and make sure, yeah, you just realize that you've got to plan ahead and also prioritize in terms of,
00:42:01
Speaker
what needs to be done when you get home from work sort of thing. Like he gets home and wants to play and it's the best thing you ever driving up the driveway and you see him standing on the windowsill yelling out, dad. So makes you realise that, yeah, you with the time that you've got, you've got to make the most of it.
00:42:18
Speaker
Yeah, that's beautiful. The rest of 2024, after UTA, you went through Hounslow and Rollercoaster and then back to Cozzy. Was there anything else in there that year?
00:42:31
Speaker
I know that was it. That was it. how How did the rest of the season go from your perspective? um Definitely a learning curve. I had a bit of a niggle going into Hounslow and I could run the trails around home and I thought, oh, it's okay. But got up there and yeah, the Hounslow just, it's brutal.
00:42:49
Speaker
Like not an easy step, very techie, very not just not forgiving at all. And then- And yeah, ended up hobbling my way through the back end of the marathon there and then went down to roller coaster and I wasn't that good at school in geography and took a wrong turn. And yeah, that was that.
00:43:11
Speaker
Okay, okay. that Yeah, that's a nice way to put it. i Obviously going through and looking into this, I did notice that the Instagram post was essentially that you took the wrong turn, went full noise and then blew yourself up.
00:43:26
Speaker
the When you've taken you've gone from being in the lead, taking the wrong turn, you've worked it out. At that point, like if you were to put yourself back in that position or you just find yourself in that position in the future, would you change anything about how you did it?
00:43:40
Speaker
ah Yeah, I probably wouldn't go racing with as much anger at myself for taking the wrong turn straight away. I'd probably build into it a lot more, but ah don't know. It's easier to say that when you're bit annoyed at yourself it's easy just push a bit too hard yeah and then cosy unfortunately another dnf but you made it a lot further in the race this time and seemingly was pacing it a lot more appropriately like you've learned the lessons of the previous years what what happened in cosy um i yeah after the restart i same thing took off a bit too angry there with what went on and then um i got to the bottom of the descent and
00:44:23
Speaker
Brie messaged me and was like, oh, you should have come through the checkpoint. Are you all okay? And I said, oh, I called her and said, oh, I can't really see and I've just passed blood. I think I'm not too good, but I'll try to finish it. And yeah, she's probably the voice of reason that told me to stop what I was doing and get in the car at the next checkpoint. But I felt bad after the two-hour stand around. So I wanted to try and finish it, but...
00:44:46
Speaker
yeah you have to go to work on monday yes i can't imagine what being stopped for two hours at that point into your race what what was the the atmosphere and the mood at that checkpoint during that time uh we were very lucky we were stuck at an aid station there was people that were stuck up the hill like some portaloo toilets that the hikers have and whatnot so Luckily, we had a buffet to sit there and eat away at, which made it yeah a bit more enjoyable. And i was lucky enough, a couple of friends were there and gave me a jacket and helped get me warm and everything. And from there, um yeah, met a few people. And then off the back of that, they literally said, righto, two minutes, you've got to get going.
00:45:26
Speaker
And it was kind of a shock. And everyone was just, yeah, off we went. How were you feeling before that aid station? Were you feeling strong? I was feeling strong. I had a bit of an upset stomach and I just started to back it off sort of thing and then ended up having a bit of a spew and then from there I just tried to manage it, get some nutrition in and then got to the aid station and ducked behind truck and had a bit of a and another spew and then off I went.
00:45:56
Speaker
But yeah, I started to feel as if I made a turn but I think the rest didn't do me any favours. Yeah. Yeah. Nice. Yeah. I said, physically, psychologically, like having to manage your emotions and your frustrations and just the body getting cold and having to reset. I, uh, anyone that finished that race was, was like full credit to them and he, and people that that didn't, I think it's, it's fully understandable if you stopped it then, or you had an issue, but you said you were passing blood.
00:46:30
Speaker
Like, was there any prolonged effects? after Cosi for you? ah No, I was all okay. Luckily, i got a drip the next day and then I felt a lot better after that instantly. um And then, yeah, I just took it very easy the week after and just managed it. And luckily, we're doing a reno on a doctor and he gave me a bit of a once-over.
00:46:52
Speaker
yeah That's convenient. Works well. Then, obviously, now we're kind of back to to where we are. We've gone through this journey and the thing that's kind of stuck out to me as we've been talking is the fact that you've learned a lot, often the hard way, to the point now that, albeit apart from your ankle, you seem to execute Buffalo really, really well.
00:47:15
Speaker
Reflecting on what we've kind of spoken about, what are the main takeaways for things that you have been able to learn and implement and change and to the point where, yeah, you feel I feel like, and correct if i'm wrong, you've got a pretty robust plan of how to approach trails, especially a hundred case ah yeah Probably the main thing that I learned is like coming across, I thought it was trail run. So you had to run everything.
00:47:38
Speaker
But I definitely learned that like poles are okay. They're not like they sometimes your best friend like at Buffalo this year, they'll probably, if I didn't have them, I definitely wouldn't have been nowhere near the time that I had this year. um And then from there, just also too that,
00:47:54
Speaker
You also have to look after yourself in conditions. Like this year at Buffalo, I started in a different top because I knew that it was wet. Then as soon as I got to the top of the chalet and it was dry, I'd change my shirt and off I went.
00:48:07
Speaker
But um probably you had asked 12 months ago, would have been like, no, that's 10 seconds. going change your shirt. It's a waste of time. Like that's 10 seconds you could be down the road. So just in terms of like just think ahead and plan ahead.
00:48:22
Speaker
all the little things that you can do to help look after yourself and manage yourself, make the racing a lot easier. And is there anything that you've changed in your training over that year-long period? ah Yeah, I've been running for like 12 months, just solely running now. So now I feel like can do sessions and not risk breaking down.
00:48:42
Speaker
um Like I now can do two sessions a week and I can hit enough dirt a week that I feel like I'm getting enough load out of, whereas before I'd have to run flat because I didn't want my Achilles to go or this can injure my calf. But now after doing it enough and also I've jumped in the gym, which has helped a lot. I used to worry like wearing a tool belt all day at work plus carrying stuff and being up and down a ladder. I thought that was enough, but not when you're trying to ask the most out of your body for 12 hours.
00:49:13
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. how long have you been doing strength work for? I've been doing it since the Hounslow because that's when I found out I had a bit of an injury from neglecting strength work. And what have you felt has changed after that or through that? um I think it's probably made me a bit more robust in terms of I feel a lot more stable through my hips and my knees. I actually watch a lot of Vlad's stuff that he puts up on Instagram and YouTube and Yeah, they help a lot just with balance and ankles and activation sort of stuff. So yeah, just doing that sort of stuff, everything that you can do to help yourself, this is going to make race day a bit easier. Yeah. I feel like listeners might not, at least to memory, I can't remember Vlad talking too much about that, but a few years ago, i found his YouTube channel and learned a lot from it as well. um I'll put it in the show notes for anyone that wants it wants to take a look.
00:50:08
Speaker
Are you coached ah so at all? No, I do my own coaching. I just find it working a physical job and then coming home and then sometimes you don't have any energy to do anything the next morning when you wake up after a big day at work and then running. So I just, yeah, I worked with Jesse until COVID and then since then I've just been doing my own thing.
00:50:32
Speaker
How has your approach to training? Obviously, the running bit sort of evolved and do you draw from anyone in particular or any particular styles of training?
00:50:45
Speaker
I pretty much just stick to what Jesse and I worked out, worked for me back in the day. like I can't probably sprint out of sight on a dark night to save myself, but I know that I've got an engine that I can just sit at an efficient, like around about 150 beats and just tap away all day sort of thing.
00:51:02
Speaker
that's just kind of what I used to do when we were mountain bike racing and even doing Ironman sort of stuff. So just try to stick around that and I know that it works for me. And I feel also too, like I kind of do stuff on a bit of a whim from time to time. Like if someone's doing a session, I can jump in with them with that sort of thing. Like can just structure my week around that. Whereas if I was to have a coach and regimented, it's not like I like it to be fun and enjoyable. Like,
00:51:30
Speaker
If I'm getting up at five o'clock in the morning, every morning, i want to enjoy it and be able to do what I want to do rather than sometimes just being stuck the specific ways of everything. Yeah.
00:51:41
Speaker
Yeah, interesting. it is It is always curious to see some people thrive off the structure of having a coach and for some people it takes the enjoyment out and it's just feasibly not possible because they have to be so so flexible and and know themselves really well.
00:51:55
Speaker
Looking forward now you've had an objectively very good run at Buffalo. What's coming up? ah uta 50 uh once i heard it was a world major was like i want to go back and try racing and see who's there hopefully there's a lot of internationals and just see where you're at against the deep field okay so with with that now now i'm curious how are you looking at the recovery and then the training into uta like i know you did it last year but it's like a different perspective now um yeah with my ankle i actually dusted my bike off it was probably the first time in four months that i've been for a ride and
00:52:31
Speaker
Went out and yeah, I'll probably just cycle, breeze, looked at my ankle and said that it doesn't look too
UTA 50 Preparation and Recovery
00:52:36
Speaker
major. So just let the swelling die down and then just start running when it feels right. And then yeah, from there, probably just stick to what I did last year. It seemed to work.
00:52:46
Speaker
um i think I think I had a great race. So just go from there and maybe this year just hit the Stairmaster. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, no, that's, that's definitely, uh, definitely understandable. And we've already, we've, we've touched on not particularly looking at the hundred mile purely from a time and a recovery perspective, but what, what else is exciting you?
00:53:10
Speaker
what are you trying to achieve? Like, do you, have you had that sit down with yourself or with Bri and gone at some point, I want to be able to do this in the sport. Yeah, i definitely one day I'd like to have a crack at a road marathon. um I'd like to just see where I'm at in that. I think it's bit of a novelty to get in and try to have a crack at a time. Everyone seems to do that and it seems like good fun.
00:53:32
Speaker
But at the moment, Charles, definitely probably I enjoyed a lot. And I think just being out there also and the journey that you have on race day in the hills and whatnot, whereas is you're not staring down the road looking at your numbers is probably more appealing. um But you never know, like,
00:53:49
Speaker
I could just decide to go race road race or just see what happens. We did have a text exchange. I was having a quick scroll through and I found that there was a moment at which you were thinking about doing Canberra.
00:54:01
Speaker
Yes. I'm assuming that's off the cards. Yes, I was thinking of doing Canberra to pace a friend, um but yeah, that's definitely off the cards now. okay okay good i'm glad um i'm excited that when we when we first connected and i could see your training i i'm excited to see in the 50k distance because like there's there's less variables to learn as in 100k like the execution of the 100k is not just like how good of a runner you are as you've learned with your nutrition the cooling and the hydration but i've seen how fast you're running around our local trails so i'm excited to see you back in uta in that field i'm glad to hear that it's not a marathon being put
00:54:37
Speaker
put in the in in the middle of that. um Are you going back to Cosby this year? Is that the plan? Yeah, id like to go back. I feel like I've got a bit of unfinished business there. It'd be three years, so hopefully third time lucky. Yeah.
00:54:49
Speaker
yeah It definitely hurt getting into the car at 90Ks this year. Well, I think I was at that, but I had to run a bit extra, so I'm not too sure what I was actually at. um And then, yeah, definitely get back to Cosby.
00:55:06
Speaker
Maybe GPT 50 in the lead up, but we'll just see. We've got a bit of action-packed end of the year also with just life weddings and whatnot. So, we'll see how work and everything goes.
00:55:20
Speaker
Okay, exciting. it's going to be It's going to be very fun to follow along. ah Closing down, as we said, you've had a quick introduction to the sport, learned a lot along the way. Talking to you from two years ago or the person that's sort of coming into the sport, especially if they've already got a competitive background, they have a competitive nature, is there like one or a couple of key pieces of advice that you would you would want to pass on? Yeah.
00:55:49
Speaker
In terms of like, yeah, competitiveness is good, but it can also be your worst enemy when you're trying to race a long distance race. um You've got to respect the distance, but at the same time, there's also nothing wrong with getting in and giving it a crack like,
00:56:03
Speaker
just give it a shot and see what happens, I think. I like it. Doesn't need to be too too complicated. Tyler, thank you so much for coming on and having a chat. I'm excited to see the rest of this year for you. I really hope that Cozzy goes well and you you can finish that last bit off, ideally with a slightly healthier body than last time. But yeah, good luck for us here. Thank you for coming on and we'll catch up soon.
00:56:28
Speaker
Thank you, James. Appreciate it. Catch you out on the trails.