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Episode 50: The Future of Trail Running, Killian into Western States, and the World Trail Team Chat Continues
412 Plays19 days ago
Episode 50 of Peak Pursuits is here!
Your hosts, Brodie Nankervis, Vlad Ixel, and new team member James Sieber, discuss their recent training, racing, and recovery journeys.
The guys dive deep into Vlad's current training approach, and James shares more about being a full-time run & strength coach and his current injury. They then get very philosophical about the future of trail running!
We wrap up the episode with a reminder about the upcoming Australian team selections for the Trail Running World Championships—don’t forget, applications close soon.
And... Stay tuned until the end for an exciting announcement! 👀
Also hear an exciting listener offer that you don’t want to miss from @run2pb 😍😍
Thanks heaps for listening and keep pursuing those peaks!
Follow James: Instagram | Strava | Website
Follow Vlad: Instagram | Strava
Follow Brodie: Instagram | Strava
Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!):https://uppbeat.io/t/mood-maze/trendsetter
License code: K08PMQ3RATCE215R
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Transcript
Introduction & Special Offers
00:00:08
Speaker
Hey, trail runners, whether you're looking to take your running to the next level or you're gearing up for your next ultra, listen up. Our friends at Run2PB are offering an exclusive 10% discount for the first three months of personalized run coaching.
00:00:20
Speaker
Just log on to run2pb.co and use the code PEAKPURSUITS to take advantage of this special offer.
Meet the Hosts & New Member Introduction
00:00:28
Speaker
Hello and welcome to episode 50 of the Peak Pursuits podcast.
00:00:33
Speaker
I'm Brodian Nankervis, one of your regular hosts, and I'm coming to you live with Vlad Ixl over in Perth. How are you going, Vlad? Yeah, not too bad. It's 39 degrees today and this is literally 24th of March, so never-ending summer in Perth this year.
00:00:51
Speaker
Nice and warm. I'm sure you'll be um reminiscing about this in a few months time when it's cold or maybe not. Yeah, I'm not sure. i'm Not about 39.
00:01:00
Speaker
And we're lucky enough to be joined by a new team member, James Sieber, who's been, oh is it Sieber or Cyber? Sorry, a James. Sieber. Sieber. Perfect. um James is, if you've heard it, you've probably heard his voice by now on one of our, when we introduced him a few weeks ago, but he's also been very active, done a bunch of interviews and a bunch of preview episodes. So we hope you've been enjoying those, but thanks so much, James, for coming on the main pod. How are you feeling?
00:01:28
Speaker
Yeah, I'm feeling good. It's nice to be on the main pod. I feel like everyone listening might be getting a little bit fed up in my voice at the moment with like to two previews and interviews coming out soon and all that stuff. But it's great to be here.
00:01:40
Speaker
And it's a bit cooler. We'll give them more of your voice. Yeah, exactly. exactly Exactly. Yeah, I was going to say, i think I think your voice sounds the best out of us. They might be relieved to hear Fantastic.
Episode Overview & Personal Updates
00:01:55
Speaker
All right. Well, we've got ah a nice episode coming up. We'll give a bit of a rundown of what the three of us have been up to. We've got a listener question and then we've got some some news, some local stuff and some big races happening overseas.
00:02:08
Speaker
um We'll go through some of the local results that happened in Australia um and then yeah just touch briefly on what's coming up on a big weekend of trail running that we've covered in detail in other places. um But yeah, it's going to be a big weekend. I'm very excited to see it all go down.
Training Insights from Vlad
00:02:25
Speaker
um But we might start about last week. Vlad, maybe you can set us off. How was ah the week of training? Yeah, it wasn't too bad. I think that a few weeks ago when we were on the pod and I was going like, I need to get more volume and more intensity. And I feel like that's slowly paying off. So i went back to to those kind of a bit flatter runs, a bit more kind of closer to, I guess, mid zone two running.
00:02:55
Speaker
And I'm actually feeling a lot better. um So I guess this kind of justify justifies my kind of thinking behind the fact that I am high volume, high intensity type of a runner.
00:03:09
Speaker
so yeah, banked in two weeks in a row of 13 hours, which was good. But yeah, last week was just a lot of volume and a lot of ah running at on the flats kind of at about 420 pace, 415 pace, which is 140 heart rate for me.
00:03:28
Speaker
um Finished it off with a good long run. Managed to get three hours yesterday. So yeah, actually, i'm going to try and just stack a couple of weeks where I am hitting 13 hours of running because that's kind of where I feel like I should be.
00:03:46
Speaker
um And then also on the track, just trying to get a bit more intensity. So this last week, sorry, had a good track session, but the main goal was to put in two faster Ks at under three minute pace. um So yeah, I got that done and I'm going to try and keep that up. So a bit more intensity.
00:04:06
Speaker
It's a bit hard when you're training with a group because obviously everybody's got different goals and stuff like that. But sometimes I'm just going to try and push a little bit more just so I can, um yeah, and just get that effort. I feel like I need harder sessions. I need to feel tired um for to feel fit as well at the same time.
00:04:26
Speaker
So, yeah, the goal, even though I am racing this week down down south at the Xterra, Marathon, I'm still going to try and get 13 hours of training.
00:04:38
Speaker
um When you race a lot, I guess it's pretty hard to stay consistent with training, but I'm just going to try and stack a couple of longer runs early in the week and then take it easier at the end of the week and still aim for a at least 12 or 13 hours of running for the week.
00:04:55
Speaker
Yeah, damn. There's a lot in that, lot to unpack. So you're telling me you're a high volume and a high intensity at the same time kind of guy? Is that what we're saying? Well, I feel like that's where i'm like that's where I feel fit because I think like when we were talking like early Feb, you know, I've had, you know, kind of like couple of... So I had ah
Training Techniques & Strategies
00:05:14
Speaker
obviously a break early December and then I kind of got back into training and just, I don't know, i just wasn't feeling as fit and wasn't doing as well.
00:05:23
Speaker
And I think that was because... you know, the key sessions weren't like all out kind of efforts, probably not enough like VO2 max training. And then the volume just wasn't there.
00:05:36
Speaker
And then also like, I think what we talked about is um like Perth has got like where I live, there's a lot of like 100 meter hills. So I get this, you know, four or five minute uphill and then four or five minutes downhill.
00:05:49
Speaker
So my heart rate kind of like goes from 140 down 130, 120. thirty hundred and twenty And I didn't get that 60 minutes or 90 minutes at middle kind of higher zone two efforts where I fell for a long time that that's where I was getting fit.
00:06:06
Speaker
um So I did change a bit of my training. I've been doing some flatter trails where I can hold some like a bit more steadier heart rate effort.
00:06:16
Speaker
And even after like three weeks of that, I'm feeling a lot fitter. um Yeah, I think that... high effort vo2 max efforts for me and then high volume is what gets me fit i've i've tried few times to kind of go low volume and a lot more threshold um but looks like i need that vo2 max session and yeah just more volume yeah whatever works works is and like this sort of training would completely break me so how's the how's the body feeling like your body seems to tolerate it well
00:06:51
Speaker
I feel better, like i actually feel like I feel stronger when not when I train that way. That's the dream. Living the dream. look at him me go Yeah, fantastic. I was having a look like a pretty solid long run to finish it off as well, like three hours, 36 still a bit at vert one thousand meters of vert in that.
00:07:10
Speaker
Yeah, and I feel and like I'm in today. I woke up fine and I did 60 minutes in the morning and I'm going to do another 60 minutes after the podcast. um Yeah, this is where i actually feel good and technically put probably the hardest track session I did this year, probably um this week as well.
00:07:27
Speaker
And yeah, got 13 hours of running, probably another 90 minutes on the bike. And um yeah, I guess I'm just feeling a lot better um by doing a couple of weeks of a bit more effort and a bit more volume. So straight after Donna double the next morning, I just did like a 21K road run, just holding that, you know, 140 heart rate, middle of yeah two.
00:07:54
Speaker
and just kept on rolling since then. And actually first few days I felt tired after done a double because the quads were a bit sore. Ankle was a bit sore from rolling it, but, after yeah After another week, I just yeah got into it. And now I'm actually feeling this morning, I felt really, really good.
00:08:10
Speaker
um Probably because I also had seven gels yesterday on on on a three hour run. But I've obviously been going high on the carbs as well this time. So I am.
00:08:21
Speaker
Yeah, because I've done a couple of really big weeks before, but never with so much carbs. Yeah, I probably will have a gel on the 60 minute run today. I had one this morning as well.
00:08:31
Speaker
um Yeah. And yes, yeah, that kind of goes. But yeah, I feel like also like the track session, there's been a lot of talk about like, you know, a lot of threshold work and our track sessions in our group got a little bit easier um in the past, I guess, year and a half.
00:08:49
Speaker
And I feel like I've lost a bit of fitness because of that. ah feel like I need that VO2 max effort. Maybe because I'm not like a VO2 max f freak, like a lot of the guys in my in my group.
00:09:02
Speaker
um So I actually need to push a lot harder to. Yeah. And yeah, I heard I heard David Roach talking about this on his ah maybe it was on one of his Patreon episodes actually recently. and He was talking about this sort of like shift to a lot of threshold work, but like That seems to work well for the people who are like very good VO2 maxes that don't really need to work on that area. They just want to shift their threshold closer to their VO2 max.
00:09:29
Speaker
Whereas for a bunch of people, it's probably, depending on the athlete that you are, you might get a lot more out of just trying to work on that VO2 max and velocity at VO2 max.
00:09:39
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting. Yeah, literally started doing like speed work when COVID started. And I would just once a week, I'll go six times one k as hard as I could.
00:09:53
Speaker
Like, you know, I'll go super hard and have like three or four minutes break in between the sets because I was just going all out. And I got really fit by doing that. And yeah,
00:10:04
Speaker
ah feel I feel like I need yes some of that, obviously, maybe not going all out every single rep, um but just a couple of reps throughout the 10K or 8K of work that we do on the track where I am hitting you know, closer to my max heart rate.
00:10:21
Speaker
Because yeah, a lot of the sessions before I was kind of like higher threshold heart rate where I feel like I need to be putting some faster efforts to feel fit personally.
00:10:32
Speaker
And yeah, I think um it does work. So like a lot of like, you know, you see the the training of Jacob Ingebrigtsen and all those really gifted athletes that have crazy VO2 max, but that's maybe doesn't work for everybody. And ah and I think, you know, that threshold um training is slowly fading away because I see a lot of other runners are going a lot harder on the track now and doing a lot more VO2 max stuff.
00:10:58
Speaker
Yeah. And was it the 1K specifically in that session? see you did 10 200s, two 1Ks, five Was it the 1Ks that you were specifically trying to like top, top speed because
Coaching Philosophies & Recoveries
00:11:09
Speaker
they look like they were quicker than the yeah so they were a bit quicker than 800 so like i was just going like just go on the three minutes i don't think i ran okay on the three minute pace for a whole year so yeah and and yeah lots of rest or still not having too much rest just doing a small amount of work at that top top top speed
00:11:30
Speaker
Yeah, so that was a big break, like two minute break, which is a bit longer than what we usually get. um And that felt good. Like it didn't feel like too hard. So I remember when I started training with our group, like Tuesday night, Wednesday morning, I'll be struggling to walk um because the sessions were so hard.
00:11:48
Speaker
um So we're doing a lot more of that kind of stuff and now a bit less. So this was just two sets of really fast stuff and the rest was fairly controlled. Yeah.
00:11:59
Speaker
But yeah, I've spoke with Matt Ramson a little bit that I feel like I need, I don't need like, you know, 10K worth of really hard stuff every single week. But if I do or 3K worth of like closer to V2 max, um efforts are things that will really be useful, especially when you're doing like three hour long runs on the weekend.
00:12:18
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And I don't know if you listened to the podcast last week with Fraser. He he was doing a similar thing as well. he's He's doing this sort of really all-out work, just a little bit of work. It's sort of like his third session, but it's a bit of a smaller one. But he's going like...
00:12:35
Speaker
all out for 600 to 800 I don't know what the bigger reps he was doing and then having like a lot of rest but like really working on that top top speed yeah yeah I know haven't listened to it yet but um yeah that makes sense I feel like you know not everybody will you know get the full benefits from a lot of threshold work um you know and I feel like I am one of those that need some harder harder efforts and yeah I'll probably be doing more and more of them, especially if my body can withstand volume and going hard, which yeah I've never really tried that before. So this would be um yeah kind of new to me as well.
00:13:16
Speaker
Yeah, nice. Well, I was feeling really good about my week into this conversation. So thanks for that. It looks like you got in 13 hours. So that's a nice, impressive week. I'm looking forward to see where that builds to.
00:13:30
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, the the only downside is the fact that I race a lot and that's, I guess, you know makes it a bit harder, but I'm still going to try and you know back up some bigger runs even while I'm racing a lot. So I have the marathon this weekend and then I'm doing five peaks two weeks later and then UTA four weeks later, fifty k um So yeah, not gonna not gonna be easy racing and getting volume in, but yeah, I'm just gonna see if I could hold it and get it all in.
00:14:06
Speaker
Flau, what's your like plan there? Are you going to try and hold this sort of volume of training and intensity all the way through UTA and beyond? Or to be a few weeks? Yeah, exactly. So i' um I'm aiming for at least like um this till about 10 or 12 days out of UTA and then have a bigger taper before UTA and then post UTA. You know, if things were going to plan, then keep keep going with this. If not, then yeah, reve like can kind of revisit it, see if what worked, what didn't work, if nobody body can hold on to this or not and make a new plan for for winter but yeah hopefully I can yeah tape a little bit less for the upcoming two races and keep up the volume and intensity and if I'll have a good race in UTA then I'll keep it up if not I might have to change few things but yeah I mean it's it's definitely still fun and interesting it's a simple sport right running is so simple trail running is a bit more complex with
00:15:04
Speaker
you know, downhill work and uphill work and power and so on. Um, but yeah, here I am 37 years old and, you know, still kind of trying to find exactly what works for me and stuff that worked for me before is like, I, I started with a lot of volume. So when I started, um, I guess trail running and ultra running, I was doing a lot of volume and no key sessions at all.
00:15:29
Speaker
Um, and that worked for a long time, but then the sport just got you know, faster and quicker. So, you know, COVID hit and I started adding speed and doing track and that really helped my running. But then I feel like the last kind of year and a half of plateaued a little bit.
00:15:46
Speaker
Um, so yeah, now I'm just going to try and find that balance between volume effort, some time on the bike as well to keep the legs strong. So yeah, it's a big puzzle that I'm still trying to, um, work my way through.
00:16:00
Speaker
It's definitely interesting. Like you, obviously as you're aging as well, physiologically VO two starts to decrease. And I think. Especially in this whole Norwegian era of threshold, people are forgetting that you still have to keep maintaining everything else. And most of us are not VO two genetic freaks. So if you don't run fast, then you lose the capacity to run fast, which then hinders every other threshold below that point. So it makes sense. Like i you're doing two sessions a week.
00:16:28
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. that they i mean Are they all this style of like this sort of fast and anaerobic threshold VO2 style? style yeah so tuesday track friday is usually like threshold effort um even though like for the like when i started doing threshold a few years ago used to look at it as a race like i would just like raise those sessions and kill myself and even though that was really hard i was really fit where lately it's been a bit more about like you know heart rate and effort and i've been going a lot slower and i feel like
00:17:01
Speaker
I'm a bit less fit because of that. So maybe I'm just like, yeah, I just need a lot of effort and that worked for me in the past. And maybe I just need to do more of it, even though it's more painful.
00:17:13
Speaker
Like, you know, when I had like my lactate tested, so they tested my lactate before we even started the session and before we started the test and it was already on two.
00:17:25
Speaker
So maybe I'm just a really high lactate person. So I need to, you know, train at a higher lactate because I remember like Matt Ramson testing my lactate after a threshold and he goes like it was like maybe 4.5 or 5 and he goes, no, you're going way too quick. You got to slow it down.
00:17:44
Speaker
And I have been slowing it down, but I have been feeling like I'm losing a little bit of fitness, like few percent. But that those few percent make a big difference when you're trying to race, um you know, competitive races where people are pretty close to each other.
00:17:59
Speaker
So I'm just kind of trying to think that maybe I'm just, yeah, I'm just different and I need a lot more effort in my training or a lot more volume. well there is that there is a lot of individual variation in in lactate so you do it's if you're going to use lactate measures like the actual direct measurement of lactate then you need to actually know what yours where your inflection point is because i think some people's inflection point can be up as high as like six and eight millimole um yeah so you might actually not be reaching your inflection point yet so you couldn't you can work up to that that level
00:18:33
Speaker
And then if you are training below your actual threshold too much, like if you're you're training at five and a half and you're actually, your l t two is up at six, seven, eight, no wonder you feel like you're losing that sharpness, that top end.
00:18:45
Speaker
yeah Yeah. Get you in the lab blood. Yeah. Yeah, no, I did. So I did that kind of loud but that was like, the results were so off that I think it was, I don't know if they even believe in the results.
00:18:56
Speaker
um But yeah, i feel like, you know, a lot of like, like a lot of people just go by like, Oh, well, threshold has to be at 4 or 4.5, but it could be very different for a lot of runners. And yeah um maybe for Jakob Ingebrigtsen, it's at 4 or 4.5. But for me, it could be it up at 8 or 7.5. And I'm also seeing like an increased max heart rate as well in some of my efforts.
00:19:26
Speaker
So I'm not really sure what's going on. You're somehow managing to reverse aging. Yeah. i mean, like, you know, i ah like, you know, obviously I started running a bit later on, but I don't feel like I'm losing anything as I age and, you know, I'm four months away from 38. So yeah,
00:19:45
Speaker
um so yeah not 100% sure. It's like, yeah, as I said, I'm still finding out a lot of things and things that worked in the past working a bit less now and you just have to stay on top of it and ah guess really, you know, kind of analyze what you're doing and what's working and what's not for you and not just your coach, whatever your coach says or thinks or other people in your group. Yeah. Awesome.
00:20:13
Speaker
Well, that was super interesting. Good deep dive. um I'm excited to yeah see how the block through to UTAs and we'll be able to see proof will be in the pudding, I guess, especially with a proper taper in and and whatnot. So, yeah, if you if I'm running UTA 50, you've got me scared. So, um yeah, good luck with it. Good luck with the rest.
00:20:34
Speaker
It does, it just, because ah it does really point out like the individual variability because Brody, you could do seventy k a week with a couple of sessions, plus what you can do on plus time on the bike and Vlad can be doing this and you guys might be head to head on the day.
00:20:47
Speaker
Possibly, yeah. Yeah, yeah exactly exactly. Yeah, that's training for you. Yeah, me and Brody did a run together, which I felt was very similar. Like we were climbing at a similar effort and descending at a similar effort.
00:21:03
Speaker
And I feel like i was doing a lot more volume than Brody did at that time. Yeah, definitely. yeah so Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Very lots of individual difference. So, yeah, I think you're doing the right thing, listening to your body, doing what feels good. As long as your body's tolerating it, then I think that's the main thing.
00:21:19
Speaker
yeah It's going to be very fun to watch. If this works for you, it's going to amazing. And if not, at least you know, but it's going to be cool to watch. It's good to look at Strava whilst you're doing it. Yeah. yeah Yeah, it's a sexy Strava. That's the at least minimum thing that you get out of this is you've got a really nice Strava for five weeks.
00:21:38
Speaker
Yeah. i mean, there's a lot of runners that do really high volume, like, you know, a lot of runners that can run, you know, 200K weeks. um Yeah. I think what I've done a lot of two hundred k weeks in the past, um but just never with really high intensity at the same time.
00:21:54
Speaker
So that's going to be, yeah. Well, and to be honest, like listening to what you're saying, I think when you first started talking in my head, I had like three sessions that were paced at sort of miles to 3k a week and then 160, a week. actually doesn't sound like you're training like crazy high intensity.
00:22:12
Speaker
It sounds pretty sort of still balanced there. Like, yeah, you're training fast, but then you're doing some threshold work. Like it's, and training in your zone too, as long as you're fueling that, there's no reason why that wouldn't work.
00:22:24
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nice. Well, James, you get to try and follow that. What have you been up to with training? Not quite that exciting, unfortunately. So my week last week looked like three strength sessions. Two of them were completely identical and they were all very much focused on my upper body, which is because i am about 40.
00:22:47
Speaker
four or five weeks into the rehab for ephemeral shaft stress fracture, which is frustrating. It's the first, the first injury more than i think I tweaked my glute a few years ago. And aside from that, since starting running, I haven't had anything. I've had a lot from skiing, a lot of broken bones, but nothing, nothing running. So,
00:23:07
Speaker
Had to ah to whether weather all of that. um yeah Prior to that, I was training for Buffalo Marathon, but unfortunately, yeah got something a little bit wrong in in my my equation there. yeah okay and Are you doing any cross training or just gym at the moment?
00:23:23
Speaker
No, so I had a call with my chiropractor who's kind of looking after all this. And at the moment, so as of today, I can get rid of my crutches, which is exciting. So you've been on crutches, yeah. Yeah, I've had to really deload. It was quite ah quite an advanced high grade.
00:23:38
Speaker
Yeah. um So... it's meant that the first week or so we tried to just avoid too much loading and that wasn't going very well like I was getting almost more symptoms they sort of getting exasperated so we went to essentially if I leave the house got to be on crutches which is tricky when you're on holiday as well because at the time I was in Perth and trying to go on the beaches with crutches is not particularly good like anything it's Hey, yeah, yeah, let's go with let go with that. But so no, so today, as of today, I can get rid of my crutches.
00:24:12
Speaker
But apart from that, it's just literally I've got to increase 500 steps a day until the weekend, which hopefully means that by the time we roll around to Buffalo, because I'll be there as well from a coaching perspective, that can do 5000 steps a day. So really, I'm so really really getting up there, but that feels quite freeing because that allows me to now go and take the dogs to play fetch. And by the end of the week, I should be able to take them for a walk. So it's the small things that sort of really enjoying in that process. But yeah, from a cross training perspective, I think I'm about...
00:24:45
Speaker
about three weeks away from being allowed to go on the bike from a fitness sort of use. And the edge gym wise, think next week I'm allowed to start doing bodyweight squats and then slowly building from there. So at the moment, it's just a lot of a lot of machine upper body work and then I'm doing left leg work as well so on the on the leg press and doing leg extensions and hamstring curls keeping super simple because I can't carry weights either so I can't use any bars or free weights or dumbbells so everything's just got to be machine so it's not not particularly interesting remember those days yeah
00:25:23
Speaker
But it's been, it's been an interesting process when it happened. I kind of expected everything to just like mentally to start breaking down and go, oh, this really sucks and woes me. But it's, um, weirdly it's kind of been quite like, it it does suck. Obviously i really wanted to race Buffalo training was going really well, but it also hasn't, it's been quite easy to just go, okay, well, this is, this is happening.
00:25:46
Speaker
All I can do is, what I'm told to do and not do anything more than that. And hopefully it comes back somewhat quick. Uh, my wife, Sean and I going across to Europe for my cousin's wedding in June and July. So, and we have, uh, entered for UTMB Verbier over there.
00:26:02
Speaker
Obviously we'll be racing it, but the goal is to be able to at least do the 28 K course, um, by then. So that's kind of like keeping me focused and sane. it It's a tough one. I've done that one three times in a row. It's, um,
00:26:15
Speaker
It's high altitude. It's beautiful out there, but it's it's not an easy course. No. And we're, so I used to, I used to live in Verbier um and i've kind of, so I was really keen to do it and we're going to be in just outside of Orsiere for a couple of weeks before then.
00:26:32
Speaker
So the the plan was to do the marathon course and to really give it a push, like actually get acclimatized, do some training on the train. Now I'll drop down to the 28, which is what Siobhan's going to do. I, to be honest by then, I still don't know if I'll be fit enough to to keep up with her in it, but I will just hopefully be able to enjoy it.
00:26:49
Speaker
If I can't get to that, so be it. But just because I used to live there, it's kind of like, all right, I would really like to be a part of it. Yeah, cool. It's beautiful part part of the world. It's one of the nicest places for running.
00:27:03
Speaker
I can't imagine living there would be so cool. Yeah. Yeah, I didn't run when I lived there. It was for a ski season, working working working out of there. So yeah, it it is it's beautiful. And the mountains are incredible. And obviously, we spent a lot of time down the valley as well. So you kind of like just, don't know, the fields and the colors, it's just yes stunning. So I'm excited to go over regardless and see it. It's super cheap as well. Oh, yeah. It's like looking at the exchange rate, I'm just, it's completely everything.
00:27:35
Speaker
yeah i think we'll bring some food with you over australia yeah yeah i'm just going to be rice and bring some food across the border yeah get a tent yeah well that is a nice thing like it was one of the reasons we wanted to set ourselves up there because we were at uh utmb last year just from a spectating perspective originally we were going to be crewing our friend sj miller but she couldn't race so we were going to be there anyways and being there and experiencing that atmosphere both Sean and I were just like okay we we have to come back at some point and actually do one of the events here it's just it's so different I can't explain it but just being even just in the the event hub with how much stuff there was it just had this whole different vibe so we will try and do some of the OCC course because that would be really fun we went up and watched um was I can't remember what the place was called anymore but
00:28:29
Speaker
Yeah, so we kind of set ourselves up. Thinking about it, I think the only reason we ended up in Switzerland was because of the altitude. Otherwise, it would have been a lot smarter to have based ourselves in Italy. But hey-o.
00:28:40
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, nice. Okay. And um I assume this time of year with lots of races happening um in across the country that you've been pretty busy coaching-wise, lots going on? Yeah.
00:28:54
Speaker
Definitely. Buffalo is obviously a pretty key one, especially living on in Albury on the border. It's only 75 minutes away from Bright. So lot of the people that I coach locally are doing it.
00:29:05
Speaker
And even further afield, a lot people are coming in for this one. So that's that's a big one. And then I have about 50-50 split between people that are more road-focused or trail-focused. There's a lot of crossover within that. but and then So that means with Ballarat coming up.
00:29:19
Speaker
It's been a real shift this year. People have decided not to do Canberra, not to do Gold Coast, but focusing on Ballarat, especially just kind of, don't know, from Canberra downwards in terms of location a few people going up to Gold Coast last year and didn't have fun with the ah the conditions. So it's...
00:29:37
Speaker
I don't want to say there a good time to have an injury because there's not. Again, much rather be running right now. But with coaching being busy, yeah a lot of key races and then the podcast coming in, it's been a good time to have.
00:29:51
Speaker
If there's ever a time, it's been a good time for it, um which is, yeah, I'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing. But Yeah. Yeah. And um I was listening to when the the team introduced you a few weeks ago. I wasn't on the podcast and they talked a little bit about you being a full-time coach. But I was super interested by that because I don't know many coaches in Australia that are full-time.
00:30:15
Speaker
I know a lot of people that sort of do it on the side or they do some like maybe they're sort of ah elite runners doing some some part-time coaching or there's some people doing some coaching but still holding another job.
00:30:27
Speaker
How do you find... your life being sort of all around coaching do you enjoy it being the only thing like is it good that you can sort of just fully focus on it or like how do you approach approach that so like I said uh on that episode i I alluded to like I grew up skiing and ski racing and so we would go and spend six months sometimes of the year and we would essentially live with our coaches and so I always knew coaching is like a full-time thing yeah and then i
00:30:59
Speaker
did a period of powerlifting and essentially the same. Like your coach was a PT as well, but then also they were a powerlifting coach. And then I came into running and I was really surprised at how many people coach as a secondary income.
00:31:14
Speaker
um ah Like, yeah, not not a hobby because I'm sure everyone takes it really seriously, but it is it's the after work or if they work three days a week or four days a week, it's the other days or it is the elite. I think the elite that does it as a source to top up their income through their salary is a different, a whole different question there.
00:31:32
Speaker
um But yeah, so i I was like, okay, well, ah I had a couple of experiences with coaches when I first started running that weren't full-time coaches. It was yeah their after work thing. And I just found it a bit frustrating from a communication perspective. And i had an experience with a UA's based coach that obviously communication was a bit harder because the time difference, but the consistency was a little bit more challenging as well.
00:31:55
Speaker
So it started off really well and then sort tapered away. And when I decided to come back into coaching after being a ski coach, I was like, okay, I'm going to, I don't know how this is going to work. And obviously for a period of time, it's physically important. I can't just say I'm a full-time coach, coach one athlete and somehow,
00:32:13
Speaker
just have income fall on my lap. So there was a period when I started that I was working in a gym as a class instructor and I was doing a a bit more PT work. And then i went into more of like an event management space as well.
00:32:29
Speaker
And, and I still like I was like, I still do about, don't know, it's about probably an average two hours, three hours a week worth of a bench management work for a mountain biking company. So that's kind of like, I guess it's, I see it as a way to just change up things because it is nice to have that little bit of a difference in my week.
00:32:47
Speaker
um But yeah, so I was kind of like, okay, well, if... I'm looking for a coach and and my coach is also full full time. um If that's what i I want for myself, that's what I'm going to try and create. So it's definitely not been easy and it's definite like the I've never run a business before. I've never had to have always worked for other people. So there's a lot of stresses on that side of things about making sure you've got enough people in the door and there's still that worry of like, I'll wake up tomorrow and people have disappeared. But It allows me to be available when they need me. They can just book calls whenever. It gives me the time to really dive into the professional development side of it as well. So trying to become the best coach that I can be, whether that's, like I have a few people that I have, we call it coaching calls with. So just other coaches that we chat
00:33:35
Speaker
coaching which is great it's like the most fun i could have on a zoom call i think probably um yeah and uh it's yeah i know it's it's it's now that we're here it's i've learned so much outside of coaching just the whole running a business side of things and it's very rewarding i think that there's enough runners out there that if people wanted to take the risk they could get to this point and obviously you've got to have the base understanding of <unk> exercise physiology and then also understand like people i think you that sometimes gets missed that just because like you really have to understand what someone is going through the environmental factors the lifestyle factors the the sports psychology side of things but um
00:34:25
Speaker
Yeah, it definitely wasn't without taking a few leaps of faith and sort of foregoing income when I had it ah to put more time into coaching and sort of any and any inflection point. The deal I made myself when I started was if I ever have to choose between coaching or something else.
00:34:42
Speaker
from a financial perspective or work perspective it's always going to be coaching so every time there's been an inflection point i've kind of sacrificed something for coaching and yeah now we've found ourselves here which is still kind of pinch myself that i wake up every day and i just get to coach people and see them achieve stuff um which is pretty cool Yeah, it's really cool to hear um the like the development and and how you got to where you are, but also someone who's sort of just living, breathing, coaching, but also the that it is sort of it comes with its ups and downs. So yeah, thanks for diving in a little bit there. Super interesting. i'm going to have to pick your brain at some point.
00:35:27
Speaker
Definitely. sounds yeah it Sounds like a journey. and'd I'd love to. ah this is if there's any coach that's out there listening that wants to have a chat of about coaching, I will always like I love them, um but I would love to see more coaches being able to do this full time.
00:35:42
Speaker
um yeah like i said you do you do have to have periods where you are working 80 hours a week because you can't like you need the income from elsewhere and then you have periods where you're you're might be more financially tight but it's a very rewarding place to get to and i think it would only elevate the quality of coaching in the sport and and and sort of professionalize it a little bit more um which i think would be great for everybody yeah fantastic Cool.
00:36:08
Speaker
Awesome. All right. Well, I'll dive into my week a little bit now that we've separated Vlad's week from my week. Makes me feel a little bit better. um But, yeah, no, I had to actually a little bit of a turn...
00:36:23
Speaker
a little bit of turn improvement maybe upwards I'm trying not to get sort of too overexcited because I've done that in the past and and sort of end up going in circles but um yeah it was a pretty good week for me i got in a few additional runs like it's a bit of like when it's a seven day week some and you're not running you're not running a consistent schedule some weeks will look bigger than other weeks just because the easy the days off and the days on sort of line up. So this week I i ran on Monday which meant and I ran on Sunday, which means I got in five runs.
00:36:57
Speaker
So it looks like I did a big jump on my Strava um in terms of run kilometres, but the loading has sort of been gradually increased. So, yeah, I did 55K of running this week. um which was about four and a half hours, I think, and then a a little bit of cycling on top of that. I had some um some work-related things ah and that I was away down in Geelong for a conference um and some other bits and pieces, which meant I couldn't quite get in as much riding as I would have liked.
00:37:27
Speaker
um But I did get in two sort of decent rides. um And on Thursday, I did like a little bit of intensity on the um'm I'm doing still doing a fair bit of... I did two...
00:37:40
Speaker
And I did three out of five runs on the suspension treadmill. The one we talked about, I talked about last week. So that lever device, um, And on Thursday, I did like a little bit of a session um just to sort of try and get some intensity in as well.
00:37:55
Speaker
um So it did sort of three by five minutes at threshold. I think I'm probably the opposite to Vlad in that I would really like to work on my VO2 as well and my velocity at VO2 and I'll get there at some point, probably later in the year.
00:38:08
Speaker
But I seem to respond really well to threshold work. So when I'm coming back and I can only fit in a little bit, then I try and focus on threshold and also threshold is slightly sort of slower pace than sort of that higher stuff, which is a little bit better for my Achilles. So, um yeah, I did three by five minutes.
00:38:26
Speaker
um I actually did it with some a little bit of um elevation on the treadmill just to sort of try and decrease the load a little bit because it wasn't sort of going as fast.
00:38:37
Speaker
um But, yeah, that was that was good. It was nice to sort of get the legs turning over and and get the heart working. um and What's it like running faster on using the the level lever of device? like It looks like it would be awkward, but...
00:38:56
Speaker
It's good. i actually found this week, it's with the setup on my friend's treadmill anyway, it's it's it's nice running fast, um flat, but when you start adding elevation, yeah the lever device doesn't quite, because it sort of like comes from the...
00:39:13
Speaker
from the the in front of you down to your waist and then back up behind you when you add like a vertical on that you're further ah your hips are further away from the front but closer the back or vice versa yeah yeah so it feels a bit weird i can't really get the grade up too much higher without sort of feeling a bit weird so i got up to about eight percent and i think if i went much further than that it wouldn't like you you start whacking your arms into the into the actual um bungee cord bits or the... Sorry, they're not bungee cords, or the pulley bit.
00:39:46
Speaker
um So, yeah, it's it's it's actually quite good to run fast. um And I reckon you could get... If you had a treadmill that could go fast... ah My friend's treadmill is a bit of an older treadmill, so it struggles at the higher pace.
00:40:03
Speaker
um But if you could get a treadmill that was going could run comfortably very fast, I could see this as being a way where you could get some really high leg turnover, um neuromuscular stimulus with as a sort of like overspeed type training potentially.
Brody's Recovery & Training Innovations
00:40:19
Speaker
um I don't know how applicable that is versus just doing it outside, but... um potentially for someone coming back, it might be something. Well, and it is interesting. I know that Eli Hemming uses it. I think pretty sure he uses it for his doubles just to alleviate a little bit of that load. So yeah it's yeah it's it's cool. it's It's cool to see. How much of your body weight are you doing for that session?
00:40:43
Speaker
I don't really know because, yeah well, I could probably do the math, but it's a little less... we were talking about this last week. It's a little bit less accurate than something like an Alter-G where you can, like, it's very scientific. You can impute exactly what you want.
00:40:57
Speaker
um I know that the very last tag on the rope is... ah 20 kilos off, which would make it about 80 percent, 70 to 80 percent.
00:41:11
Speaker
um But I'm doing three off and there's probably somewhere where I could look it up, but I haven't looked it up. I'm sort of assuming I'm running it somewhere between 80 and 90 percent body weight. That's sort of what it feels like. I've run on an altergy before.
00:41:25
Speaker
I've run on an altergy at like 70 and it feels like you're like barely touching the ground nearly like it. It just feels so weird. um So it feels more like normal running than that um because I've gone outside and run after a couple of these as the warm down um and it sort of felt not too dissimilar. Like you feel a bit heavier, but it's not like you've like gained it a ton of weight. So I think I'm probably somewhere closer to...
00:41:53
Speaker
ninety percent But again, I'm not being too clinical about it because I'm just going by what my Achilles feels like. Does it feel okay with my Achilles? And do I still feel like I'm hitting the ground?
00:42:04
Speaker
Yes. So yeah, it sort of worked works. I'm not trying to be too scientific, I guess. Is there anyone managing your sessions, like your run training at the moment? Are you doing it yourself?
00:42:15
Speaker
So i was I'm working with Lockie Bromley with my Achilles in general. um He's sort of... given me the reins a little bit now with the running like I'm a um it's hopefully not a recipe disaster I'm trying to be smart so I'm not I'm not I'm being very smart with myself and I've done this like I know I'm a coach I I do running stuff I'm a physio myself um in the past I've just been I'm just a really opt optimistic person so I think that bleeds into my
00:42:46
Speaker
injury management sometimes that I push too hard. um So I'm really dialing that back as much. But I'm still, Lockie's still doing my gym and he did the first sort of three weeks of my return to run. And now I'm just saying, this is my plan for the week.
00:42:59
Speaker
And he goes, he he's just saying, no, that's don't do that. Or, yeah, that looks good or whatever. um Yeah. And it's so for me, it's like, I know, i think when you know your body really well and you also got a bit of ah knowledge, like being a physiotherapist and a coach, it nearly works better to be able to dial it in specifically per day.
00:43:21
Speaker
I'm not really... I've got an idea of what days I want to do some sort of intensity and what sort of thing I might do, but I really adjusted on the day as well.
00:43:33
Speaker
um So like on this session, for example, I started at 8% and I thought, oh, actually, like that's that doesn't – it feels okay, but I reckon if I lowered the percent, it'd be a bit better on my Achilles because the more percent up, the more dorsiflexion you go into. So whilst you're not running as fast – My foot, my Achilles is still is having a bit more of a tensile load.
00:43:54
Speaker
um So changing it to 6% felt good. And then I went to 4% on the last one because I'm playing around with it, having a feel for what feels what feels better, what feels good. um So, yeah, I'm i'm being fairly... I...
00:44:09
Speaker
when i When it gets to this point and especially like my work, um I'm very up and down doing different things, different days. So different things work in better different days. So I'm pretty flexible. Whereas if for the first three weeks I was trying to sort of clinically follow the return to run plan and now it's a bit more ah variable, I guess, but um running it by Lockie each week and he's doing that. He's doing the gym stuff.
00:44:37
Speaker
So, yeah. is he Is he having to say no to you much? I haven't said no yet. I've only done two. I've only done last week and this week, which was sort of my own. Oh, actually, the week after I was in WA and only did two runs.
00:44:49
Speaker
And then last week I did yeah did the five five runs. And i actually, when I'd sent him the thing, I said four runs. But then I wanted to have a complete day off today, so I decided to...
00:45:01
Speaker
put everything on yesterday and my Achilles was feeling good Sunday morning so and it woke up good today so that was sort of like a good thing it's a bit of like trial and error um but yes and I'm my plan is to have a running a more involved running coach going forwards but at this stage where I like to sort of keep the feel of it where I'm not doing as much and it's very rehab focused I'm sort of doing it with me and Lachie and then once I'm getting some regular volume um then i'm gonna look to get a bit more guidance because i've sort of self-coached myself with some mentorship and whatnot for many years so i'm keen to sort of get some get some insights from the outside yeah lovely it's cool to see like it's good it's good to see you moving i didn't actually realize you were doing quite this much so it's um i'm pleased you're yeah making progress
00:45:55
Speaker
Like, I was surprised I did this much. I didn't go into the week going, I'm aiming to do over 50Ks. And I actually, when i when i was considering what I was going to do on Sunday, i was like, oh, am I... Should I be doing this like going over 50K seems like a bit much?
00:46:10
Speaker
um But then I was like, well, actually, I feel good. And if I need to stop during the treadmill, I will. um And I'll also be able sort of know how it feels the next day. And and it and it went all right. So, yeah, yeah on Sunday I did. um I actually worked in the morning, but just a four hour shift.
00:46:25
Speaker
And then um I did the suspension treadmill for an hour. So that was I think it was my longest run, but I was not doing any intensity. And when I'd run the previous Monday, I think I'd run for like 45 minutes or a little bit less than 45 minutes. And I felt like I could have run for two hours on the Monday.
00:46:46
Speaker
So I was like, OK, I'll just cruise it like a cruisy pace and see how it feels. um And it felt pretty good. So I just went through to the hour. um And then because I wanted to get sort of like a long run stimulus, I jumped on the bike afterwards and did two hours.
00:47:00
Speaker
um And I'd already done a bit of commuting in the morning. So I ended up doing sort of like... about four hours of endurance work, um three hours of which was on the bike, and then I went to the gym. So it was a big day, and I'm feeling it today, but my Achilles feels okay. I'm just feeling a bit tired. So it's nice to um it's nice to feel tired from training, not ah my body's sore. So I think it's all...
00:47:27
Speaker
coming along, but I'm also like this week will be less than 55 K because I'm only planning to run four times um and I'm not I don't want to just keep bumping up the volume. I think between now and end of April, I'll probably stay at around 50 K yeah depending on how it goes. And and then I'll have to I'm going to have to see how April goes to make the decision of whether I do UTA 50 or not, um just depending on how it's responding. So I haven't written it off yet.
00:47:57
Speaker
It's feeling less likely, but I haven't written it off. Looks like you're building in nicely as well, leading up to the World Champs in September as well. that's shit Well, that's the big goal.
00:48:10
Speaker
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Speaker
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Speaker
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00:48:46
Speaker
Yeah, I think like we just spoke a little bit before the um before they're recording today that we're both going to put our names down for the short trail. um End of September, 30th, 28th of September.
00:48:59
Speaker
Yeah. Which is coming quickly. Like I feel like it was just Christmas yesterday. yeah. yeah End of March already. um But yeah, we are through, well, less than a while, just over a week till nominations close for the World Champs.
World Championships Nominations & Opportunities
00:49:15
Speaker
um I think, yeah, I think Sim is doing UTA, right? UTMB. so Yeah, she's doing CCC. Yeah. I'm not sure about Jess, but we do know that myself and you, Brody, are going to hopefully put in the applications then.
00:49:33
Speaker
Yeah, I need to do the form. So yeah, make sure everyone else make sure you do the form. It's due what that that must be says the second. So that's next Wednesday. So you've got to wait. I think they changed that. It was supposed to be the 30th of March, but now it's the 2nd of April.
00:49:49
Speaker
So if you are thinking about um representing Australia ed the World Champs Mountain Running up in oh sorry uphill, up and down, short trail, all long trail, make sure that you do put in the form. It is a self-supported team, but um yeah, should be a fun, fun event.
00:50:11
Speaker
um Hopefully as good as last year, at last sorry, two years ago in Austria, which was so much fun. um this year this This year looks like a harder course, um a lot more elevation, maybe even more technical.
00:50:24
Speaker
um But yeah, if you are thinking about it, Put your name down. when We're not sure how many people will get accepted with with that with them aiming um to only accept people that are going to be in the top 50% of finishers.
00:50:41
Speaker
um But yeah, nevertheless, I think. you know put your name down you never know who is going to put their name down so there's a good chance of being selected um yeah and it is going to be a an expensive exercise coming out from australia all the way to um the pyrenees which i guess it's a flight to barcelona um and then a drive unless there's a close airport um but Yeah, if you are thinking about it, that's just over a week to put your name down. We are hoping that we're going to have a big team, but who knows with those things. i know that a lot of countries obviously um pay for for the athletes to go over. We're not at that point yet in Australia.
00:51:24
Speaker
um But yeah, hopefully they can choose a bigger team and keep moving the sport forward. James, you know, if anybody going to put their name down, you know, if any athletes are going to Not outside of the obvious ones. I just messaged Tyler Windham to see and we were speaking before offline if he would apply for the long trail. But yeah, just family and life and because you've got to do it off your own back. He's he's actually already represented Australia.
00:51:51
Speaker
um i in mountain biking or some like pretty sure was that uh so he's and he's he's he's not that one and done would ever mean a reason why you wouldn't reapply but um yeah with a with a alert and little boy it's it's a bit a bit harder to do but no i i think it's just I've been having a couple of conversations with people that I won't say the names of, but essentially it boils down to if you think you want to be in a team, don't let the 50% finish position stop you from entering because, okay, fine. If the selectors say no, the selectors say no. But if you never put yourself in, then it's an automatic no. And there are, you read the selection policy and there are ways in which you can still get in. I think it does definitely favour
00:52:37
Speaker
the younger runner than the older runner because of that of of some of their wording about gaining valuable experience, um which Yeah, is is great for the youth um of the sport.
00:52:52
Speaker
But no, i yeah I would just say if you if you think that you have a shot, go for it because if if people don't apply because of the selection policy and hopefully the the selectors will we'll go with the the it's good to field a full team because Australia is getting really, really good.
00:53:10
Speaker
Um, yeah, technically, yeah, technically this could be the easiest team to make because the sport is just, um, moving forward and forward and, and it's going to get harder and harder. So if you're thinking, I'm not sure if I'm good enough, just put your name down and who knows, you might get selected. I remember in 2017, I think I was the only male, um, Kelly Angel was the only female. So, um, we definitely had bigger teams in Thailand and, and Austria.
00:53:40
Speaker
Um, Yeah, I mean, I would like to see a big team go over because i think it's just good for the sport and and good um ah to move you know everything forward and get people racing in Europe and internationally.
00:53:53
Speaker
But yeah, hopefully, you know they still select a big team because I think yeah it's good for the sport here. but And I'd also say, like if if you are if if you are listening to this and you just go, like I'd love to, I'm probably good enough, but financially, I just don't have the capacity.
00:54:08
Speaker
do, do consider other means, whether it's a GoFundMe, speak to your local council, because sometimes they have budgets for international level athletes or consider going to local businesses for a sponsorship, um, to be on your social media or something. Obviously you can't wear the kit because it's got to be the green and gold, but yeah, if it's something you want to do thinking outside the box, it can work. Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, yeah, they're gonna, I think they they usually provide like five nights accommodation and, um,
00:54:38
Speaker
and the meals throughout the race. um So, yeah, I guess you could just squeeze in a shorter trip. um But yet still obviously very, very expensive coming from Australia. Yeah. And September is not a bad time to fly probably.
00:54:52
Speaker
Yeah. If you book it, that's um I was just going to say, like, how long do they usually take to make that decision? Usually within like three or four weeks, right? ah Yeah, I think it it was is quite quick in 2023. Yeah.
00:55:04
Speaker
um i think that was a pretty fast turnaround. I'm pretty sure it closed on the weekend or so shortly after when Kmart was on, which would have been a March, and then they announced it around Easter time, which was probably two weeks later or maybe even less.
00:55:19
Speaker
So, yeah, I don't think it's a huge turnaround. Yeah, so muchs the flights, I mean, obviously, will be expensive, but not as bad if you book them a couple of months in advance.
00:55:29
Speaker
Yeah. But yeah, we'll hopefully some of you would put the put your name down and we'll have a big team out there in Spain. And um yeah, gonna be challenging and hard living and training in Australia and then racing in the Pyrenees. but um yeah yeah and i think the more people who nominate not saying like just nominate because but like the more people who nominate the more seriously trail running gets taken it's not just a it's not just like a team that you put your hand you put your hand up and you get you get put in the team like it's it makes it it reflects actually what it is in terms of like trail running is starting to get quite competitive we're not at the
00:56:06
Speaker
competitive level maybe of some of the other running disciplines in Australia at the moment, but it's it's headed in that direction. And I think it starts to get taken more seriously with things like this where there's a lot of interest shown, then then we start to go, oh, actually, there is something going on over there. So, um yeah, ah don't don't just nominate even if you like you're not even thinking about it. But like if you like you like you guys said, if you if you'd if you would so if you would consider going, if you got selected, you should put your hat in the ring.
00:56:36
Speaker
Yeah, I am fully just expecting the selectors now to receive like a thousand entries because of what we've just said. so I would say. Yeah, yeah well, you never know. this might be this This is the one that really goes out there. But I think it's also interesting, like going back to Vlad, what you saying before about when you started running, you just did volume and you've kind of realized that to be able to stay competitive, you have to start making a training to be more well-rounded. And that's definitely like that right that's represented in the level of the sport as well. people are you're having to take this seriously, which has its own battles with working full time as well. But you've got to be training, training properly, thinking about your body and what you need for that specific event.
00:57:18
Speaker
And that's really cool to see because you can't just be like a fit person and win these races. Now you've actually got to be very good, specifically trained runner, which I think important. Yeah, mean, the sport is moving forward. And I think we saw a little bit of that, um, in the Chianti Ultra, um,
00:57:36
Speaker
two three days ago. a lot lot of hype behind the Chianti 120K. um I got to see a little bit of the live feed. There was a big build up if Killian was going to make it or not. He just had his child a few days before the race.
00:57:53
Speaker
um He did make his way to the race and was going for the golden ticket and he did get a golden ticket. So it looks like it's going to be a massive, massive build up to Western States this year with a lot of amazing runners.
00:58:09
Speaker
um showing up. Did you guys have a chance to catch some of the live liveam broadcast for the Chianti Ultra UTMB? Yeah, i saw I saw a bit before i went to bed and had had to switch it off. I think they were maybe about 30k from the finish and i've watched I've watched the finish now because in the results, Jim wins by about half an hour, but then Killian and Vincent Boulard, who won UTMB, they were only separated by 30 seconds. So I was hoping for a full-on sprint finish in the last bit and that someone just blew up. It looks like they were together with about k and a half to go, but not quite that aggressive, which is a shame.
00:58:45
Speaker
Probably not for them, but... Yeah, it makes Western States super interesting on both the men's and the women's field now. It's exciting. Yeah, I think it was it was weird seeing Killian run so slowly down here. yeah But still, like I know, look, I was watching it probably like 30K in and he was already like struggling on the downhills and then still holding on.
00:59:09
Speaker
to like you know an amazing amazing result um which i hope like you know june i mean western states is like end of june it's not that far away as well so i really hope that he can recover from the niggle of the injury that he um was carrying into this race and and come in fit into western states but yeah it's crazy to see how big and competitive Western States going to be this year.
00:59:35
Speaker
I think we were talking again before the podcast um recording about people were saying that they should have two days of Western States, um which could be cool.
00:59:48
Speaker
Hopefully more people could do it that way. But then I guess it loses a little bit of that touch as well of... But yeah, this big event, Western States, one of the biggest 100 mile races in the world only has 300 people, a bit less than 300 people racing it, right?
01:00:04
Speaker
Yeah, it's the it's something I've heard other American based podcasts talking about because if you you can go onto the West, if if you are interested in every avenue of the sport, you can go onto the Western States website and they have 2025 entrance list and it has the returners, the people that finished in the top 10 men and women's field, all the golden tickets and then the the lottery. And there are some sponsor spots as well. But there's the best part of 100 elites in this field already. And I don't know the exact number of total spots that are in it, but I know that it's definitely less less than 500. I think it's somewhere between yeah three and four. So it's
01:00:40
Speaker
At what point do you go, well, you've got all these people that want to enter this race, but you're putting a hundred elites in that also really want to be there and race because it is the most competitive a hundred mile in a, like a faster running non-mountainist perspective. It's still people, people don't think it's that hard, but it's still a hard race. It's just a net downhill.
01:00:57
Speaker
Um, yeah I don't know. like I feel like it would be really cool if we had an elite only, but then you had another day that is for the rest of the pack to go to.
01:01:09
Speaker
Obviously, putting it on is a bit complicated and you have to get like double the amount of permits and it shuts down so much of that area. But I know, at what point do they go, well, we've already got all these people trying to get in. I've heard that Canyon's 100k, which is the last golden ticket race that's coming up in a few weeks, I think for maybe five weeks,
01:01:27
Speaker
um they You can't get in anymore if you're an elite. They're on a wait list. And it's like you can't have a golden ticket race where an elite is trying to run in and they can't get into the golden ticket race.
01:01:38
Speaker
so Yeah, but I think we we are a bit far away in the sport of like really the kind of having um a defined... I guess guidelines of who is an elite and who is not.
01:01:51
Speaker
um Yeah. With ITRA points, you know, being hit and miss sometimes. It could like, yeah they could set up a system like the triathlon thing that has like, you know, you,
01:02:04
Speaker
yeah have to be a registered pro athlete um to be in the pro field to be considered for elite entries and prize money. um And maybe some of the registration money could go into doping control as well.
01:02:19
Speaker
think that that could be an option as the sport gets bigger. And yeah, I also heard that canyons a lot of really good runners are trying to get in. um But probably not going to make it. I think there was also talk about if Killian is not going to make it to Chianti and his other option is Kenyans is probably not going to get an entry for that.
01:02:40
Speaker
Um, but yeah, I think we are in that we're, we're, we're at a place right now where it's just, yeah, it's, you know, races like Western States that a lot of people want to race and want to get into are really hard to get into, but then it will lose,
01:02:57
Speaker
like, you know, the magic of the race if it is split into two days. Yeah. And I think one of the one of the coolest things about running roads and trails is that, I'll put myself in this, us mere mortals, the, like, mid-back-of-the-pack runners, you can line up on the same start line as Jim Womsey if you entered Chianti.
01:03:18
Speaker
Like, that's really cool. And that's a pretty unique experience. But we're not as... We don't have the almost unlimited numbers that the World Marathon majors do. Obviously they do have limits, but they're in the tens of thousands. Like it's, don't know, when you've got this capacity and I think especially it doesn't seem like the world champs have been able to quite yet get themselves to the point where everybody thinks of them as the world champs. And I'm not talking about Australia. I'm talking about like other countries as well. When they're talking about like, you can't do the world champs and one of the UTMB races and people are actively saying, well, I'm going to go do the UTMB race. That to me is like bit of an issue. So when you've got a race like this, Western States, where everyone wants to go, that wants to race a hundred miles, surely we want to try and make it almost as easy as possible for a certain caliber of athlete to get into it.
01:04:06
Speaker
um But I also, yeah I mean, it's tough also with road marathons, you know, you have the elite start, they might have like, you know, bottles for the for their aid stations while everybody hell everybody else has to carry their own nutrition or like, you know, rely on what's ever in the aid stations, which does make it a little bit difficult as well. Like, I think that, you know, if you're trying to be an elite, it makes it a bit hard, then you don't have your water bottles in the aid stations.
01:04:38
Speaker
So they might, you know, like also like, i you know, if you're a, if you're a like, you know, mid pack runner, you go into trail races, you know, you don't have your support crew, you lose a lot of time, you know, by going into aid stations and doing everything yourself.
01:04:54
Speaker
So I think there could be some, I don't know, some kind of set rules of, you know, what you can get in aid station, how much support you can get in aid stations. um that yeah Yeah, there is definitely like there is a handicap.
01:05:10
Speaker
And don't know you guys have heard of he's a British track guy called Callum Elson. He's got a YouTube channel called The Distance Project, which is great if anyone likes track stuff. It's a brilliant channel.
01:05:23
Speaker
But a couple of years ago, he did a series called Closing the Gap. And that is all about he was a sub elite level. working full-time in software i think it was pretty much software and then he was trying to close the gap to the elites now he has now represented gb so he managed to do it but it's not easy like you have almost everything stacked against you and and kind of in the same thing like they can't get into races because they don't have the credentials to get that all the times to get that and it's it's this real challenge and we see that on trail on the roads we don't get bottles or on on trails um and you can't exactly have a qualification time for the trails it's not like if you can run a
01:05:59
Speaker
a 220 marathon you can become an elite male trail runner it doesn't yeah it's it's it's it's an interesting conversation yeah i mean trail running is just so i guess even in triathlon you got the pros they start like you know five minutes before the rest or um you know they have rolling starts and so on yeah trail running is just so different and yeah you know you know some people are really good on technical and some races it's just so hard to categorize who is elite and who is not and you know what they should get compared to the rest of the field um but yeah I mean we get to the point where everybody wants to do western states and well not everybody but ah a lot of runners want to do it and then there's only very very limited spots for it and then
01:06:44
Speaker
you know if you do well in western states that opens up so many sponsorship opportunities and opens up you know coaching opportunities and so many doors that yeah it makes it a lot harder when you're not in those big races and um yeah i mean time will tell to where you know pro trail runners are going to go towards but yeah it's definitely you know kind of a bit unfair in many ways um and The gap is growing between elite and non-elite runners as well in our sport.
01:07:18
Speaker
I guess I'm not an athlete who's like specifically facing like going for this this particular race. have a slightly different perspective on just being a spectator, but I i actually like the the theater of these sort of golden ticket races and and people sort of chasing the results and I find it really interesting to watch and it to me it builds a lot of hype around the race for the whole season going in so like that aspect's really interesting obviously as an elite athlete it can be frustrating because you're trying to chase and you if you are unlucky and
01:07:53
Speaker
Vincent Bouillard and Jim Wormsley and Killian turn up to the race that you were so targeting, then it makes it a bit harder to qualify.
Exciting Racing Highlights & Results
01:08:01
Speaker
but um and And you can't just be like, oh, it's all right, I'll go to the next 100-mile race or 100K race.
01:08:07
Speaker
um So, yeah, obviously that's a bit tricky. But as a purely so spectator point of view, i find it really interesting to sort of follow the journey. I love ah love the golden ticket races because they bring so much hype.
01:08:22
Speaker
towards Western States in general, but then they create those small um events that are just so much bigger now because of those golden tickets. Maybe they should just have more golden ticket events and like, you know.
01:08:35
Speaker
Yeah, possibly. I just feel like it's it's very hard to get into Western States as as an elite. I mean, Obviously, like, you know, the lottery is super, super hard and, you know, everyday runners, meatpackers, you know, it's even harder to get in.
01:08:50
Speaker
um If you're in a lead that, you know, is training a lot and it's part of your of your life and income, you know, you miss one opportunity in the golden trail, golden ticket, sorry.
01:09:01
Speaker
um you know it becomes hard trying to showcase your talents in one of the biggest races so yeah it is uh it's i mean i would like to do you know western states one day but then you know the golden ticket races are becoming so so competitive um so i might never have the opportunity I don't know, Vlad. I think if you can sustain this training until Tower Hour next year, assuming they keep the golden and ticket, my money's on you.
01:09:26
Speaker
Yeah, I'm not sure. Just gotta to go to Chianti and beat Vincent and kill him. Killian was running with an injured knee and still, you know, ran quicker than the UTMB champion.
01:09:39
Speaker
well I think it's... it is going to interesting. I don't know if you saw the symbol that everybody is trying to guess what it means that Jim did when he crossed the line. So he he finished in nine hours, 59 minutes for 120K with 5,000 meters. He comes across the finish line, which is just stupid. like It's incredibly quick.
01:09:58
Speaker
It comes across finish line and he makes this. Some people are saying it's an M. Some people are saying it's a three and a one or the other way around one and three indicating 13 hours. So it's either the M one bib or 13 hours. they' not really sure. But Tim Tollefson, Tim Tollefson did a thing about it, about being 13 hours.
01:10:13
Speaker
um So I thought that was quite cool. I and i did. and I did enjoy that. And he's obviously in in the shape to do that because that's a very impressive run. love how deep people were going to this. Maybe he was just trying to do like a love heart and he fumbled it or something.
01:10:27
Speaker
yeah yeah yeah ah i know it's it makes but it does it creates this story i think that's the great thing with the golden ticket events and i think yeah yeah i i don't know if it would be bad if there were more of them or if they should just offer they could offer a few more tickets or they could give more returnees like maybe the top 15 could return not the top 10 but you see it with bandera that lost the golden ticket status uh in 2020 think last year with the first year didn't have it And now it's from all accounts, from what I can tell, the competitiveness has just absolutely plummeted.
01:10:57
Speaker
um Towerware wouldn't have got some of the names that it got if it wasn't a golden ticket. Yeah. So... Yeah, it is the top 10. I think if you finish in the top 10, you get an automatic entry next.
01:11:08
Speaker
Yeah. It's interesting. i'm probably most I'm probably more interested in Western States this year than I am UTMB. Yeah, me too. Possibly that has been for the last few years. But yeah, it's yeah they're definitely like if there's some marketing or some someone behind this, they're definitely doing the right things.
01:11:25
Speaker
Well, yeah, it's it's definitely harder. Like, it's more interesting to get into Western States. And I think especially, what was it, two years ago with the kind of the animosity towards UTMB as a business, it does feel like even though people still really want to do that, maybe there's more attention and a positive light towards Western States through that whole period. So it's, yeah. good Actually, like, you know, kind of thinking about it with the splitting of the days, it could do, you know, 300 people on day one, which could be 300 male and then,
01:11:55
Speaker
you know second day could be 300 females or the other way around um like some of the triathlon races do which could be pretty cool as well because that would you know increase amount of elites in in both male and female and um create a full weekend of really exciting racing and i think now with you know broken arrow kind of being two weeks before it it's kind of like this early june um I guess June is all eyes are on the U S um, you know, with those two races and yeah. And then everything moves towards Europe.
01:12:28
Speaker
Um, but yeah, U S is the amount of talent, um, in the U S right now, we saw it with the big altar as well with those times there and, you know, triathletes moving in into trail running and, um,
01:12:44
Speaker
Yeah, the sport is just moving into action. We're going to go to Big Alter just before we go there. The women's ah winners of Chianti who got the golden ticket. So fa Fiona Pascal won ah from Great Britain. She ran 12.34 and Johanna and Tila would second in 12.53. So they'll be the two golden ticket it ah runners. Well, the ones that get offered the runners. I'm not sure if we confirm whether they've accepted or not yet.
01:13:13
Speaker
um And then ah Jim already had one. And so it's Killian and Vincent. it's Fiona's also really interesting because her sister Beth won Western in States in 2019, think.
01:13:25
Speaker
te i think Pretty, yeah. So a while back, so that that's that's really cool to see. It's a shame Abby Hall, so she was crewed by Lucy Bartholomew. I think Lucy literally landed from here in Cruder.
01:13:36
Speaker
um I know that she's been trying to get it back in and she came fourth, so that was a bit of a shame. but But yeah, i'm really I'm seeing Fiona and the way that she raced Chianti as well. She very much bided her time and kind of passed, I think, about 50k to go. That's going to be a really interesting name to keep an eye on for the field. And obviously being British, I'm always rooting for her a little bit more. So that's...
01:13:55
Speaker
that's that's who i've got um and yeah a big alter eli hemming and it's him him and table are both incredible like the times that they're running el eli just ran like 319 for a 50k that isn't flat like it's i don't know the exact elevation in it i think it's it's maybe just shy 2000 or around 2000 if someone could check but He, yeah, he's not like he was racing with David Roach.
01:14:24
Speaker
And David said and in his Instagram that he rolled his, ah he rolled his ankles, sprained his ankle pretty bad, which is why he DNF'd. But even before that, he had followed Eli's move and he realized that he couldn't hold on and that he'd made a mistake.
01:14:39
Speaker
And that's somebody that's obviously very fit at the moment. So Yeah, Eli's going to be a cool one to see what he ends up doing during this year. I think he's stepping up to CCC.
01:14:51
Speaker
So that's going to be really interesting to see. He's already won OCC. And yeah Eddie Owens, the guy that came second, I think they said on on free trail that he was he just ran 213, I think.
01:15:02
Speaker
And this is his 50K debut on the trails. So... Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah. And he was he was seven minutes back. And I think that gap was only a minute with but at maybe the last aid station. So Eli really put the gas on there.
01:15:17
Speaker
but It says 6,700 feet, which guess 2,000 meters. 2,000? Yeah. It's like 3,300 per 1,000 or so. So... yeah yeah it's like thirty three hundred per thousand or so so yeah some cool cool names to watch the us is turning it on yeah yeah and what time what time did table hemming run she ran really quick as well didn't she yeah table around 404 58 which was again seven minutes seven minutes faster the course did change this year they lost something called the big whopper which was like this final climb that last year is why uh eli won the 50k last year running with matt daniels and
01:15:54
Speaker
the gap when they hit that climb was two minutes and the gap at the finish, which was like the next thing was 20 minutes. Um, I think, I think, I think I've heard Matt on his podcast, the Boulder boys talking about walking down there backwards, um, because he just blew up massively. But yeah, it's, um, table's table's time. i think table came.
01:16:15
Speaker
11th or 12th overall. So like very nearly cracking the top 10, but to run 404 50 K for 2000 meters. Um, yeah, it's, it's impressive. It's quick.
01:16:29
Speaker
Yeah, it is quick. Yeah. Uh, that's one. Well, we've been um talking for a long time, actually, so we might might skip listener question this week. we We'll come to it next week.
01:16:41
Speaker
um We did have ah one race of note ah in Australia over the weekend, which Sorry, we had a few races around the country, but one with the the big and biggest names that I could find was Noosa Ultra Trail.
01:16:56
Speaker
um So they have a few different distances up there, 100K, 80K, 50K, 30K. um In the 100K, I'll just read out the winners. Tom Brimlow won in 9 hours, 37, which is a pretty quick time. I think Tom...
01:17:15
Speaker
has done well at UTA a few years ago, maybe won UTA 50 back in 2021, sometime maybe a few years ago. um And Amanda Stanford won the women in 11 hours 33, so some pretty quick times.
01:17:34
Speaker
in the 100k. In the 50k, Joshua Chug got the win in the men in 3 hours 46. um And Zoe Manning, who is ah quite young because she was running the under 23 at the Asia-Pacific Trail Running Champs last year, she ran a really impressive time, 4.04 for the 50k, which um I'm not sure if it's the same course, but last year Kelly Angel ran 4.29.
01:18:03
Speaker
so There may have been some differences in the course, but still a very quick time for Zoe over 50K. um So there were sort of those distances. I think ah also in there's a 25K and Henry Hugman, who I think we promoted as maybe running Buffalo this weekend. He got a narrow win in one hour, 41-45 over Chris Waters.
01:18:27
Speaker
um And in the women in that race, Rina Ringy won in one hour, 49-29, which isn't far behind the men. It's it's a very impressive run by Zoe like that.
01:18:39
Speaker
ah If it is the same course, or even just even not with a huge change to be, what was she, 20 minutes or so ahead of Kelly's time? more Yeah. Yeah. Also, Brady, did you just get, did you say Tom's result at UTA off top of your head?
01:18:54
Speaker
Yeah, i I just remember it from when I first started looking at trail running and tom was Tom won UTA that year, I think. And I think I raced him at Brisbane Trail Ultra. So i was like, who's this guy?
01:19:06
Speaker
Yeah. Did he win in 2021? Yeah, you got it right. I'm the stats man. Thank you. I'll take that. That's a big win for me. That's very impressive.
01:19:17
Speaker
i Of course, I pull out stats like that all of the time. know um Yeah, I think maybe this year was maybe it was slightly faster. I know it was very muddy last year. I remember seeing some...
01:19:29
Speaker
ah some of Kelly's recap and John Dutton, who was also up there. He ran a little bit slower than what Josh Chug ran. But I also saw, I think, some pictures from Zoe's and it still looked pretty muddy. So maybe that's just a muddy race. I don't know.
01:19:44
Speaker
it You'd have to imagine, given the weather that's come through, that there's truly a lot of water around at the moment. True, true, true. That's pretty cool that they've been able to pull it off.
01:19:55
Speaker
Actually, i would this have been announced? You didn't speak last week about, um I wish to forget the name of it, the race that got cancelled in the Blue Mountains. ah Six Foot Track. Six Foot Track, yeah. They've managed to find a new date, i think, in certain September, which is really awesome to see. Yeah, that's great news.
01:20:10
Speaker
Yeah, fantastic. Cool. All right, and that leads us to ah what's coming up for next week, and we've got a bit on around the country. um Another, i think, quite ah big race up in a similar area, the Yandina 5.0 is up on in Queensland, and I think it's around the same area as where the Noosa race is.
01:20:31
Speaker
um Vlad's going to be racing down at Xterra Dunsborough. You're doing the marathon distance there, Vlad, is that right? Yeah, that's right. I think thirty eight k Fantastic. Is that some sort of like world champs, Xterra qualifier or something like that? I always see that races talking about something like that.
01:20:50
Speaker
yeah the the price obviously Yeah, obviously the triathlon is the main event, the off-road triathlon is the main event. um I don't think they'll be happy like they'll have a crazy amount of people just doing the trail run. Yeah, okay.
01:21:04
Speaker
But yeah um yeah, I mean, yeah, I think Sim was saying it's it's it's a lot of, it's a big prize money, but yeah it's $1,000 the so.
01:21:16
Speaker
yeah I thought you were being quiet on it so people didn't didn't get late entries. Yeah, I had a look at the start list um probably like two weeks ago and I think there was only like maybe 50 or 60 runners um and I did see them like advertised on Facebook so I guess I were trying to get some people down there.
01:21:35
Speaker
Yeah. But yeah, I guess not that easy to get to. Yes, yeah. Maybe by the time you paid for your travel there and back, it might be the prize money all wrapped up. Well,
Upcoming Races & Events
01:21:46
Speaker
yeah. yeah i've just ah I've just had a quick look. They have 35,000 US s as the prize purse, but Vlad, do you realize that $1,000 is US dollars, not Australian?
01:21:55
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, which obviously with the exchange rate is pretty good. But yeah, that's for the whole event. So that's all there. Yeah, yeah. I guess the money prize is for the triathlon short.
01:22:06
Speaker
I can probably have like a short course as well and a longer course. Yeah, it's a big weekend down there. I've never done it before and yeah, works well as a family getaway for three nights for us. But yeah, accommodation down there, it's pretty expensive. So there you go, it's a thousand US. Yeah.
01:22:28
Speaker
Oh, well, good luck. Have a good race. Yeah, it's going to beautiful down there. It's a bit of soft sand running and some rock hopping, so it's going to be pretty Fantastic. Amazing. Great. I was down there in that sort of area recently. It's very beautiful down there. So that'll be very nice.
01:22:44
Speaker
um And then probably the two bigger races on the weekend down in Tassie, the Kenyani Mountain Run, which we previewed um that episode came out on the weekend. and And then possibly the probably the biggest race on on this weekend, Buffalo Stampede up in Brighton.
01:23:00
Speaker
um which we also did a little preview of or a longish preview because there's so many runners. um That one's up on on Spotify and wherever you get your podcast. So go and have a listen. Lots happening this weekend.
01:23:15
Speaker
And a little announcement from us, and you'll see it on our socials as well as hopefully on the single track socials later in the week, is James and I will be up at Buffalo Stampede and we're actually going to do A little test run, a little live podcast. So if you're around on the Saturday, which is when the 20K and the hundred k are on, ah we're going to do 45-minute live podcast from 2 to 2.45 p.m. at the sort of race hub there.
01:23:46
Speaker
um And that's just before the elite panel for the 42K. So ah if you're around or you're up at Buffalo, please come down and have a listen. We're going to grab some of the the winners and and podium places from the 10K and the 20K and try and hear about some of the stories from the trail. So should be really fun.
01:24:07
Speaker
um I'm looking forward to it. um So, yeah, come on down if you're in Buffalo. Otherwise, I think... Possibly we'll have a bit of a YouTube stream um and hopefully if we get the recording right, we'll get it up as ah as an episode as well. So yeah, exciting times. Are you um hyped up for that, James? Are ready to go?
01:24:27
Speaker
Yeah, I'm excited. it's goingnna be It's going to be fun. Hopefully it all comes comes together. um But no, will be it would be really cool to do something live, I think. i'm Also, that makes me very nervous about not just hiding behind a screen.
01:24:40
Speaker
But yeah, and i will be it'll be good fun. Buffalo is such a good weekend. It's my local big event. And obviously, if you listen to our our very long preview show that it's getting bigger and bigger potentially up to towards 3,000 people so it would be really cool to engage with some of our listeners please do come and say hi to Brodie and I um and if you are around on Saturday it would be great to yeah have a little bit of a crowd show show some love to the people that are around we'll hopefully also have some people doing the Grand Slam so there'll be oh yeah sorry yeah post post 10 and 20k pre pre 40k if if an ultra grand slam runs the hundred k in like six hours you might get them as well but um yeah no it will be it should be it should be good fun fantastic great well uh have a good uh week vlad for preparing for your race and um james i'll i'll see you on the weekend yeah see then thanks very much see you guys thanks for listening everyone
01:25:37
Speaker
Thanks so much for listening, team. Don't forget to head over www.run2pb.co for 10% off the first three months of personalized run coaching using the code PEEKPURSUITS.