Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Kellie Angel Returns: Taking on WSER, Backing Yourself, and Why Consistency Wins
0 Plays2 seconds ago
We’re thrilled to welcome Kellie Angel back to Peak Pursuits!
Since her first episode, Kellie has stepped things up in a big way — tackling the Western States Endurance Run, continually building her confidence on the trails, and learning how to train smarter, not just harder.
In this episode, we dive into what’s changed, what’s stayed the same, and the biggest lessons she’s picked up along the way — from her first time at a big international race to how she balances work, family, and a growing love of the sport.
We cover:
- What it really takes to prepare for a major event like WSER
- Kellie’s evolving mindset as she gains experience and confidence
- Tips for runners going from local races to international events
- How to stay consistent when life gets full
- The importance of community, curiosity, and backing yourself
- How to find a coach and how to become one
Kellie’s perspective is grounded, relatable, and incredibly valuable for anyone moving up in distance or chasing a big trail goal for the first time. If you’ve ever thought, “Could I actually do that?” — this one’s for you.
***Don’t forget, use code PPP at Bix’s website for 20% off Bix products, exclusive to PPP listeners!***
Thanks for tuning in to Peak Pursuits! Connect with us on Instagram @peakpursuits.pod to share your thoughts, questions, and trail stories. Until next time, keep hitting the trails and chasing those peak pursuits!
Follow Kellie: Instagram | Endurance Edge
Follow James: Instagram | Strava
Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!):https://uppbeat.io/t/mood-maze/trendsetter
License code: K08PMQ3RATCE215R
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Guest Overview
00:00:15
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Peepershoots podcast. My name is James Sieber and today we welcome back Kelly Angel. Kelly last sat down with Brodie for an episode just before Western States 2024. Today we will pick things up from there, recounting Western States, her Buffalo Stampede 100k result and a lot that's happened in between.
00:00:36
Speaker
Today's episode will also go a lot more into who Kelly is, her background in the sport and her involvement in its current and future trajectories.
Roles and Perspectives in Running
00:00:45
Speaker
From designing courses with Australian Athletics to coaching to co-running Endurance Edge with her husband, Kelly has done a lot and seen a lot and has a lot of really interesting perspectives that I'm very eager to share with you all.
00:00:57
Speaker
If you don't know about Kelly, I would highly recommend going back to listen to the episode she did with Brodie for a bit more of an overview of who she is as a runner. and Today's episode is a really interesting one that I hope a lot of you can gain some vital knowledge and information about.
00:01:11
Speaker
With that, let's get to the episode with Kelly Angel. Kelly, welcome back to the podcast. How are you going? I'm good, thanks. Thanks having me. Awesome. Thanks for coming along. I've been excited to have this one on for a number of reasons, but as I said just before offline that doing the research for this, you get to learn a bit about people and then it makes me just want to go and ask all the questions that we can. So I'm excited.
00:01:35
Speaker
i want to start off. The last time I saw you was at Buffalo Stampede. We had a quick chat beforehand. The race, according to your splits at least, actually went pretty much... as you expected, if not better, to start off with.
00:01:48
Speaker
But you still had a couple of issues. How have you been feeling post-Buffalo in the last three, four weeks? Yeah, so, yeah, it it it did go better than planned initially. And then I probably celebrated a bit too early and I still had a few gut issues later on.
Racing Strategies and Reflections
00:02:04
Speaker
But I still i still finished um well inside the splits that I'd set for myself, so that was good. um Yeah, the recovery has been interesting. It's really interesting trying to recover from a big race like that whilst also preparing for a bigger race.
00:02:18
Speaker
So I was probably a little bit sore the first first few weeks, but feeling pretty good now. So, yeah. When were there, I was speaking to your husband, Tegan, and remarking on how much you've done really it' ah it seems like after western states there was a bit of a period at least where didn't race again until hounslow but it's pretty much been go from hounslow potentially earlier are you feeling that kind of catching up now a little bit he thinks so um and you know i actually completely forgot about hounslow
00:02:53
Speaker
um because there's been other things in there as well. But, yeah, it's been and pretty busy. I had a little bit of downtime after Western States. But, yeah, I guess it's a funny time of year for a peak race. so you know, there was lots of other things that i wanted to do. so um after after UTA, I plan to have a little bit of downtime.
00:03:16
Speaker
that sounds That sounds lovely. For Buffalo, compared to other 100Ks that you've done, has the recovery been any better or worse? I've been doing it for so long now that I think, you know, I'm pretty good at just just getting on with it and, you know, get bit of soreness, you change things up a bit or, you you know.
00:03:33
Speaker
But, yeah, probably nothing nothing significant, no. Okay, nice. Since I've started us on Buffalo, one of the things that stood out to me is that you do seem to set these time schedules for yourself, which seems to be quite conservative. And is that ah on purpose approach or is that that's just sort of you keep superseding your expectations?
00:03:57
Speaker
Yeah, don't know. guess I try and try and be realistic with it. I'll often look at previous race times and, you know, often I'm doing international races. So ah guess I never really pick myself to to win. So, you know, I'll often go for maybe the top five athlete or something and or someone that I might know that I've raced before and and just figure out a general schedule from there.
00:04:23
Speaker
It's amazing how many times I get it pretty accurate. Yeah. yeah ah Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. When looking at but a Buffalo, then he you said that you were about 50 minutes ahead of your schedule at Cresta.
00:04:35
Speaker
You got 10 hours in before some stomach troubles, but did you feel like you had just reached another level at Buffalo? Yeah, I felt i felt great. um When I saw Luke Barrett at the halfway mark, and at that point I thought I was coming fourth, so I had forgotten about the relay runners.
00:04:56
Speaker
And he he advised me that actually I was coming third. So that was a nice surprise. um And he he said to me, oh, you're you know, you're well well in third place. I was like, really?
00:05:07
Speaker
And then I got to the turnaround and there were about three girls
Trail Running Competition Evolution
00:05:10
Speaker
on my tail. So I was definitely not well ahead. But, yeah, everything had been going really well up until, ah like well and truly up until then and beyond. So, yeah.
00:05:20
Speaker
Yeah, it was nice to feel comfortable and and be well ahead of of what I thought I could do. um based on And that was kind of based on training, on a training weekend that I'd had up there. ah When Hannah came past you to move into third, push you into fourth, given how you were moving, which was very well at that point, what did your mind do then?
00:05:41
Speaker
Um, so initially I thought she was in a relay runner cause I hadn't met that before and we got chatting and yeah, realized very quickly, no, she was in my race and it was kind of great.
00:05:52
Speaker
Um, and so we actually had a really good chat for for ages, um, for a couple of running down the mountain, but, um, I actually just really hate that section of Buffalo on the technical rock stuff. That's where she got me. And she was,
00:06:06
Speaker
you know She's recently moved to Tassie and is feeling really comfortable and that stuff. So, um ah yeah, I was a bit disappointed, but i you know I couldn't have moved any faster down that section. So I just had to let her go and and hope that I could sort of hold on or or ah potentially find her later. but No.
00:06:23
Speaker
I was curious, especially given that, yeah, you were moving really well at that point, and even if you're on the train, you're not as comfortable with if it's kind of a, wow, she's just running really well or come on, Caddy, you've got another gear, let's go.
00:06:36
Speaker
Yeah, no, it was more like she's moving well. It's an interesting race though because i I very clearly remember running the marathon on a down year and racing against Lucy. And, you know, it is the sort of race where you have different, you know, there's lots of different parts to it and you you your different skills come out at different times. And when I raced Lucy in that race years ago now, running down that section, she was a lot stronger and on that technical downhill as well.
00:07:07
Speaker
um And it was exactly the same. I just had to let her go.
Training Regimen and Family Balance
00:07:10
Speaker
But back then I did have the confidence that I could probably catch her later on the faster stuff and that's what happened in that particular race. But, yeah, we in it's a little different.
00:07:21
Speaker
There's a lot more variables to manage. so Do you think that also speaks to how the sport has evolved over those last, let's say, five years? Yeah, totally. Yeah, we've got some awesome, strong women. It's amazing.
00:07:34
Speaker
and It's really cool to have heaps of competition and, you know, yeah, have to really push yourself. i'm I'm guessing in the past when you've been racing, there's been quite a few occasions where maybe you're only racing one other lady or you are just racing the men.
00:07:48
Speaker
Is it more enjoyable now to have that increased depth? Oh, definitely. Like, of course, it's nice to win, but, you know, there's – the it's much more satisfying when you can win against a lot of people. um And, you know, by having better competition, you're pushing yourself to be a best as well.
00:08:11
Speaker
You can't do that when you're just racing. And speaking of competition, the last time that you were on the podcast was pre Western States, which was years in the making after pregnancy deferrals. And you finally got that. That is the most competitive, well, probably alongside UTMB, but,
00:08:30
Speaker
that year in particular last year for the women's field was just incredible I think yeah to your your time would have normally been the top 10 finish and it was two hours ahead of you which is just just incredible but looking back to that you've got a very good recap multiple posts on Instagram which you go into really good detail so you don't have to kind of go through the whole step by step of it again but just looking back now nearly a year removed how do you feel about that whole experience Yeah, it was it was really great. um You know, had the opportunity to go over early without my family, which was that was ah the longest time I'd been away from the kids.
00:09:07
Speaker
I think I spent three weeks without them and just based myself in Auburn and really immersed myself into the whole culture of the race and and the place. And, um yeah, it was it was great to meet so many different people and be able to go to the camp and train best athletes and, um yeah, really learn what the the history of the race and um be able to push myself beyond, you know, what I thought was possible as well.
00:09:33
Speaker
Did three weeks in a row of 100 miles plus and I'd never done that before. um But without having the kids and work, you know, I had the ability to recover well and sleep and eat and do all the right things and um my body felt fantastic.
00:09:48
Speaker
um Whereas, you know, when you're home and you're in the middle of life, you know, I just, that's not possible for me. um so that was great and then we got to travel a bit when my family came over and then um you know I got to to be well part of the the hou hoker team over there which was really cool and um and then yeah then the then the race and had had a couple of people that I met that came and paced me and um you know it didn't go 100 would have liked but
00:10:20
Speaker
rarely do ultras go 100% the way you like so you just need to keep rolling with it and um you know i was still pretty proud to to run under 20 hours um and to be able to finish strong despite not being able to eat for quite a while so um yeah it just showed that i'd I'd put in the right the right training and um there's quite a few things in there which I want to pick up on a little bit One of the first things you're training, you're not on Strava, at least not that I can find, so I can't look in and do a deep dive. I have an alias, but I'm not going to really use it. Okay.
00:10:57
Speaker
they You just said about doing 300-mile weeks. What does your normal training look like, and how did it change at Western States? um I train most days. I'll do, I think particularly after having the kids, um I've put a little bit more emphasis on strength work, so I'll make sure that I do get to the gym twice a week.
00:11:14
Speaker
um I have coached myself for the last five years um up until about a month ago. a And, you know, I had just said that I would give it a shot on my own. I wasn't sure that I could honour another coach's program whilst trying to juggle life. And so i sort of just said to myself, I'll give it a go and if I stop improving then i'll um then there will be time.
00:11:40
Speaker
Yeah. But within that time, you know, I managed to get 5K, 10K marathon PBs. um And, i you know, I had a good couple of years. So, um yeah, I guess the general structure of my week would, you know, I live near the Dandenongs. i try and get it out on the trails on the weekend and try and include some good hill training.
00:12:01
Speaker
um i started up Trails and Ailes two years ago. So that's in there. Tag teaming with my husband every week. um And I'll do a track workout once a week as well. but Okay. So just one session a week normally? Yeah, like one track session and one hill session probably.
00:12:20
Speaker
Yeah. And from a volume perspective, how many hours do you think you would be normal, like a normal week? Yeah, a normal week probably be 10 to 12 hours.
00:12:31
Speaker
Okay. All right. so nothing nothing crazy then? Nothing crazy. And it never has been because I've always worked full time generally. um and you know, yeah, when you compare my mileage to some of the women that I'm racing against, I wouldn't do it anywhere near as much as what they do.
00:12:45
Speaker
And I just had to put an emphasis on quality over quantity. um That seems to have worked for me. And so you go across for the training camp and you put in these three big weeks. How did that feel for you as a stimulus?
00:13:00
Speaker
Yeah, the camp was great. um it was It was weird getting straight off the plane and pretty much straight into it because, you know, that I could only take so much time off. So um it was straight into three massive days of the camp and, know,
00:13:14
Speaker
meeting and running with some of these elite athletes that, you know, you've heard of but never met before. And, um you know, it was interesting being, a I guess, this sort of semi-elite athlete from Australia and then running with all these, these you know, super elite American women and, you know, finding myself somewhere in between, you know, like trying to keep up with them but probably pushing a little bit beyond um what was comfortable, which is which is good and But yeah, trying to find my place in amongst all that was interesting. And I was lucky enough to meet Paula, who was also in the camp. and
00:13:54
Speaker
And we were really similar. And the second two days, I ran with her. And she ended up pacing me for the race. Oh, And she's friend that i I will stick with for a long time. So yeah, that was great. Yeah, that's lovely.
00:14:06
Speaker
I'm guessing since you've been in the sport for ah quite a while, 2011-ish, was that Yeah, something like that. yeah happily they issue Lachie was asking me about my first ever race, which is Maroon de Deer long time ago.
00:14:22
Speaker
Yeah, okay. So I think that I found on your GMB, I think that was the first one that came up in 2011. So you've been in the sport for quite a while. To stay in that long, you must be a fan of the sport. You're not just someone that enjoys running. You must like the sport as well. So you're in this situation and you've got all these pros around you, people that you hear about on podcasts and you see your results.
00:14:41
Speaker
Were you, you're trying to train with them, but also I think if it was me, I would be fanboying as well at the same time. Was it a hard balance? A little
Post-Pregnancy Adjustments in Running
00:14:48
Speaker
bit, I've never been much of a fangirl. So I just, you know, I guess I've connected to different people in different ways. So, you know, it was just building relations or further connecting with people.
00:15:00
Speaker
So, for example, as Esther, who just came Buffalo, um, I hadn't met her before, Western States, but we'd been on the Pro Trail Runners Women's Equality group together and she leads that. So um when I saw her at the camp at Western States, I made an effort to go and introduce myself and then, you know, we've stayed connected and become friends. And i caught up with her in Hong Kong earlier this year and then spent some time with her at Buffalo.
00:15:25
Speaker
ah Yeah, so, um yeah, rather than fangirlies, just trying to build connections and, you know, people with kinds of friends and you're The trail riding community is so small, really, even internationally.
00:15:37
Speaker
and You've showed more composure than probably probably I would, and like and I can attest. Esther is incredibly lovely as well. yeah, people to introduce yourself to and get to know, i think was she's definitely, yeah, ah she made a big impact on me at Buffalo.
00:15:51
Speaker
Before, i I want to stay in Western States, but before I do, for a bit of context, your work, sponsorship whole kind of balance at the moment. So you've got your work as an occupational therapist, coaching, sponsorship with Hocker amongst other brands, but I'm assuming Hocker is kind of the main one in that.
00:16:12
Speaker
Is there anything else in there? And and how does that all kind of mix together? Yeah, there's a lot. I've got my finger in a few pies. Yeah, so I'm team leader of a community health service and it's a pretty hectic job.
00:16:26
Speaker
It's very demanding. um And then I coach, which is yeah a bit of a passion project. um i I guess I dabble in a few other things like, um you know, I helped um put together the ah Athletics Australia Level 3 and our Ultra coaching course a couple of years ago.
00:16:46
Speaker
um And then I guess just being a mum and, you know, yeah, trying to juggle family life and and be there for the kids as well. And so your work as a community leader, is that full time?
00:16:57
Speaker
It's seven days of fortnight. Okay. So, yeah, there's there's a lot going on then. So given all that and then coming across to Western States, could you really feel that difference and in training? Oh, yeah, totally. Yeah, it makes a big difference when you can actually get some good sleep and,
00:17:16
Speaker
um you have the time to put your feet up after a run and, and you know, relax. Like, yeah what's relaxing? Yeah.
00:17:29
Speaker
Then as you went through the race, you then so spoke about gut issues coming up pretty early at States. that yeah you said You said you had a few challenges. like it It sounds like it was a pretty pretty hard day out there. it's I think a lot of people would have called it quits. You definitely weren't going to do that.
00:17:47
Speaker
But that trend of gut issues seems to have been something that's kind of stuck around a bit. We saw it again at Buffalo towards the end of the race. But is that something that you had an issue with before Western States?
00:17:58
Speaker
um So, yeah it was never it was never an issue before. The first time that it happened was CCC 2023. thousand twenty three um So it was my first really long race post-kids.
00:18:10
Speaker
um And so ah race ah ah started working with a dietitian with Steph Gaskell post-Western States to try and figure out if there's something we can do about it.
00:18:21
Speaker
And um I've recently just taken on some support from Precision. um So I've been speaking with their sports scientists as well and And his take, i Chris Harris, his take was that potentially, you know, my body temperature may have changed post-kids and that, you know, just by, you know, a really slight degree um could then affect my sweat rate and, you know, all that sort of stuff. So potentially looking into electrolyte balance.
00:18:49
Speaker
Yeah, there's lots of different ways we can go on, lots of things that we're trying, but it's it's very frustrating, particularly because it was never an issue before. It's not something that I ever thought about. um But, yeah, the longer races now just seem to be getting to a point where,
00:19:06
Speaker
My gut doesn't want to take it anymore and anything that goes near my mouth, I just want to vomit. So, yeah, I'm really hoping that we can find a solution and get past it. And it's really interesting because, you know, we're we're in this high carb phase where everyone's trying to get as much as they can in and I'm more going the opposite way. Well, how much can i what's the minimum I can take to be able to get through um feeling okay?
00:19:31
Speaker
No, no, it's a work in progress. I'm sure you see this with your athletes as well, is that even if they're saying that 90 grams or if you can take it 120 grams is optimum, it's it's very, very individualized and that can ruin a lot of people's days. a hundred percent, yeah. yeah How recently is recently working with precision?
00:19:49
Speaker
Oh, i just in the last few weeks. Okay, so there's not really been any significant changes or anything yet? Not yet, no. Post-pregnancy, is there anything else that's changed with your body?
00:20:04
Speaker
particularly like you know you go through changes from having a child um you know from trying to manage your pelvic floor and things like that but I've been pretty lucky that I got onto those sort of things really early and that's all you know everything's great um I did have some ab separation um I've got a umbilical hernia um but it's Everything's
Balancing Family and Training
00:20:29
Speaker
functional.
00:20:29
Speaker
It's fine. It's something to keep an eye on, but, you know, it doesn't stop me running. So all that sort of stuff is fine. Yeah. And I guess the only other thing is just then sleep and stress and yeah not having that autonomy that you used to, you know. So it's, you know, you've got to – you're constantly juggling and trying to – to fit everything in and you know do all of the things.
00:20:53
Speaker
Yeah that's something you also said about Western States is the mum guilt which I spoke with Patricia McGibbon a couple months ago and that was a big topic and locally SJ Miller as well is that balance of pursuing something for yourself but then also having the kids and the family life and work and everything else going on. yeah's totally.
00:21:13
Speaker
When you went across the states and you had those three weeks Could you fully immerse yourself in that experience or was there always this thing back there? but No, I felt like I could.
00:21:27
Speaker
It's always in the back of your mind and you you know you're obviously make an effort to call them every day and everything. But you know it's it's also thinking about my poor husband that's home you know and you know trying as single parent is is very hard. so Especially when he wants to train and do all the things as well. so you know, back here we, you know, we're a pretty good team and we make it work so that we can both train and do all the things we want to do.
00:21:50
Speaker
um You know, we've only got one set of grandparents locally and they're now yeah off enjoying their retirement and so, you know, there's only, really it just comes down to you and your little family and you've got to be able to make it work.
00:22:02
Speaker
So um I felt very privileged that, you know, I was able to go and do that and that Tegan's, you know, super supportive of me doing that sort of stuff and chasing my, tracing my goals.
00:22:14
Speaker
Um, and I could, you know, it wouldn't be possible without them. Do you think any differently about training now with the boys? Um, yeah, like you definitely try and but make things more efficient. Um,
00:22:27
Speaker
you know it'd be nice to be able to be really specific and drive places but sometimes you just don't have the capacity to do that so you you have to make yeah okay and it
Future Racing and Business Dynamics
00:22:39
Speaker
it with with trish we were talking about not not intentionally but essentially periodizing your year of periods where you know that you're going to go all in on the running focus then you have all in on on work or for the family life do you do you find that your year sort of takes those natural flows a bit i feel like like so atticus is not yet five so i feel like we're and the other and hax's will be three in july so i feel like we're still trying to find that that that homeostasis i guess and that that balance um so i
00:23:14
Speaker
Probably it hasn't naturally just yet because I haven't really stuck with the, like we're from some of my race choices too, from going Western States in the middle of the year to doing Hong Kong at the very start of the year.
00:23:25
Speaker
um Yeah, it probably hasn't hasn't settled in that sense yet, but I need to have a break and then that will happen. Yeah. how How do the boys go with all the travel?
00:23:36
Speaker
ah but Yeah, they're great. um I think we've done it from, you know, from when they were so young. um Obviously, we're a bit delayed because of COVID initially with the older one. But, um yeah, we've made made a point of not to stop travelling and doing all the things we want to do just because we have them. And we want to you know, i give them all of these rich experiences as well. And um it's, you know, they see it as quite normal.
00:24:00
Speaker
finishing off with Western States, reflecting on that experience, is it something that you're going to be pursuing again, as as especially as the boys get older, those more bigger international trips? Yeah, like I definitely want to make the most of it while I still can. Like I turn 40 next year.
00:24:15
Speaker
you know You never know how long you're going to be able to stay in the game. um Western States was a great example of ah women of strong women competing, though. I think half of the the top 10 were in their mid-40s with kids.
00:24:29
Speaker
Um, so that's kind of exciting to know that we, you know, there's still, ah still got a few years in me left. Um, but yeah, like we definitely want to travel more. Um, but you know, financially it becomes a lot harder when, you know, you're paying for suddenly four tickets instead of one or two. um and you know, we've just today been looking at primary schools. So school starts soon and you know, there's all these other life restrictions that potentially may happen, but But yeah, we'll see where goes.
00:25:02
Speaker
And with your, well, I think it's Endurance Edge more Tegan's business. Like how does that work? Yeah, kind of. So we started it together um and it was like really small and then expanded to a few different products. And now, you know, I think I realized very quickly that I just, with air everything else that I was doing, I just didn't have capacity to try and run a business as well.
00:25:26
Speaker
So I sort of stepped back and just focused on the coaching side of things. um Whereas for Teagues, I guess that's, you know, he's its quite a creative person and he doesn't do much sort of arty sort of stuff now, but that's his way of um being creative and trying to do something different. So, um yeah, he's very much immersed in that. And at the moment it's focused on T8 and he's just taken on Innovate.
00:25:52
Speaker
um you're going to be trying to bring be bringing Innovate back to the trail world and whatever other communities are out there. um But again, that's a side project for him. He works full-time.
00:26:05
Speaker
Okay. So his his work, does that travel well? So he works for Parks doing some recovery projects. So, um you know, it's flexible to a point. But, yeah, that's also...
00:26:22
Speaker
also can be a challenge as well. Yeah. You guys sound very busy. Yeah. It's just a lot of things, a lot of really cool things, a lot of exciting and things, but just a lot of
Gender Equality in Trail Running
00:26:33
Speaker
things.
00:26:33
Speaker
yeah um So Western States, they said you took a bit of a rest and you and you came through. The next thing that, two next things that you hit, the first one was Hounslow.
00:26:44
Speaker
And the, something I wanted to pick out from there, it's not so much anything to do with the race and you've mentioned already, but it is the Pro Trail Runners Association and the work that you do alongside Esther around equality in sport, because you picked out the start line photo and, and this isn't a dig on single track as ah event producer, because there's very few people that do this, but having, um, essentially two, two areas of men's side and the women's side of the start corral.
00:27:14
Speaker
And how women, even if you invite them up in an open field, they're not just going to come because that's, it's it's not what's done. It's scary. It's intimidating. Your work being on, being being part of the Pro Trail Runners, I'm just interested what that's been like and and what that work has been doing and sort of the progress that you've made.
00:27:36
Speaker
Yeah. So, um, I feel like I probably haven't been as active recently just because life's been so crazy, but, um you know, they're doing a great job to create more, I guess, awareness and, um yeah, just equality in general for women um in the sport of trail running.
00:27:57
Speaker
um And at the time of Hounslow, that was one thing that we were really focusing on was actually, you know, this whole concept, if if you can't see it, you can't be it. So, yeah, creating a safe space for women to go, oh there's all these women on the start line.
00:28:11
Speaker
Like, oh, that's okay to do. Like, you know, and then giving people, sorry, women equal opportunity to actually be able but to compete the way they want to and not be blocked by all of these guys that they actually might be faster than.
00:28:24
Speaker
um And that's not the case for everyone. And, yeah, there's that discussion online was really interesting because there were some women that were like, we don't want that, you know, whereas there was the others that were really passionate about it. So, it yeah, it was a really great discussion just to see where people sit. But I think the whole concept is, well, you know, we don't necessarily want a female-only race, but um we're not technically racing the men. So we want free reign to be able to go so run the way we want as well and, yeah, create that space.
00:28:54
Speaker
For a lot of people listening to this, they may never have heard of the Pro Trail Runners Association or if they have, they'll think it is for pro trail runners. They won't think about the more global impact it's having on the sport. So how does that work in terms of trying to change the norm for the sport?
00:29:07
Speaker
Yeah, so um I guess one of one of the big concepts is from she races. So everyone would know the UTMB photo of of Sophie um breastfeeding and pumping in the middle of UTMB.
00:29:21
Speaker
um And You know, she was kind of not forced into that, but if she had not run that race at three, think she was only three months postpartum, um she would have had to forfeit her BIP, UTMB, for the second time.
00:29:38
Speaker
um And so she chose to run it. But that photo created, you know, this massive change and she's being able to able to leverage that to um create a set of standards for races to adhere by.
00:29:51
Speaker
you know, we've been able to... and introduce pregnancy deferrals and you know safe spaces at races, having female-only toilets, having sanitary products available, um you know having a set of guidelines that um that will make women feel more comfortable in and entering these races and being there.
Support Systems in Trail Running
00:30:11
Speaker
Yeah, and it's it's almost unbelievable to think that there weren't these things put in place beforehand and that it is such a ah new aspect of the sport that we are seeing women as women and and giving them pregnancy deferrals and even things like having daycare, having sanitary products, like these things that should be part and parcel of it. but Totally.
00:30:33
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's great it's it's great to see and I'm i'm glad and i'm I'm very interested by the work they're doing because it is impacting the sport as a whole. Yeah, and I think the main thing is that you can slowly start to see start lines shifting. you know that The percentage of women 10 years ago when I – 15 years ago, however many years ago I got into the sport, it was very small.
00:30:56
Speaker
And that is, you know, it it is growing. It is growing quite rapidly and not only in the shorter races now, but it's slowly increasing um female participation in the longer races as well. Yeah. What's your experience been like on the trails as ah as a female participant when you started and kind of how it's moved on?
00:31:14
Speaker
I think I've been really lucky, to be honest. um You know, I think, you know, because it has been quite a small sport here here in Australia, um But even when I've travelled overseas, I think most people have been really supportive and encouraging and, um you know, Buffalo was a great example where I was a bit too far ahead of my splits initially and Tegan completely missed me at the first aid station at Buckland.
00:31:37
Speaker
And I was running with – anyway, – hey um You know, he was like, you okay? Do you need anything? know, he was really looking after me. And then, okay, down the road, sort of turned around and said, are sure? You know, I've got a bowl of tailwind. Do you want to have that? Like, you know, it was just really nice because he was, you know, he knew I was up there and wanted me to do well. And, yeah, he was really supportive. Do you think that would have happened five, ten years ago?
00:32:04
Speaker
I don't know. Yeah, I'm not sure. I can't say for sure. It's a topic I'm curious about because I've heard a lot of reports post any big event, whether it's by UTMB or it's it's Buffalo more recently, of women being blocked on the trail by men and not wanting to be let past and getting people being aggressive towards them and verbally abused. And It's a real shame because it's turning people off the sport. And for someone that's been in it for for a while, it was definitely interesting to see. But I guess you're just probably too fast.
00:32:37
Speaker
No, I think I've been pretty lucky, to be honest. Yeah, I think most people have generally been been pretty supportive and encouraging. And, you know, for a long time I was up there just racing with the guys. And I've often, um you know, until probably recently i've I've trained a lot with guys. haven't always had that many women to...
00:32:56
Speaker
to train with. So, um yeah, you just naturally build those relationships. Shane Johnson. Shane Johnson. Thank you. Ah, cool. Good on him. and So so you you just mentioned that until recently you were mainly training with guys. Has that changed for you now?
00:33:12
Speaker
Well, I've managed to find a few other local people. I've been training with – um with Jade Bucklow from South Africa a little bit. She lives locally and so we do our track sessions together now.
00:33:26
Speaker
That's been really nice because you know where we sort of are able to push each other and um yeah, it's nice running with with other women when you have to have had minimal opportunity to do that.
00:33:38
Speaker
Do you do a lot of training on your own as well? Do a little bit now. um I always prefer to run with people though and I think especially, you know, when daylight savings ends, it becomes a lot harder, particularly when you work. um You know, I don't like going out on the trails on my own at night time and so, you know, I do try and find different people and and line up different groups and, you know, sometimes sometimes You know, on a Thursday morning now, that means getting up at 4.30am to go and train with a bunch of blokes that I know will always be there.
Leadership and International Racing Experience
00:34:07
Speaker
And we can we can go on the mountain and I feel safe and know that they'll be there right now. time Yeah, that's good to have. Maybe maybe the 4.30am wake up is a little bit mean, but apart from that. Oh, it's hard, but you know, it's fine. Yeah.
00:34:18
Speaker
The next thing after Hounslow was Asia Pacific Championships. And this one we we mentioned previously. we will be spoke briefly for flying that you've have represented Australia ah number of times at mountain and trail champs before they came together.
00:34:33
Speaker
This is the first Asia champs and you were the team captain there. What was that like for you? It was great. Yeah. It was nice to, to, i guess be involved in at a national level, but, um but it be a smaller event, I think as well.
00:34:49
Speaker
um And it's always nice to be, you know, part of the inaugural event. And we had, ah we had a big, you know, lovely team and it was nice to ah hang out with some other Aussies and get to know different people.
00:35:01
Speaker
um it was It was a lot of work without a team manager and so, um you know, lot there was a lot of coordination involved from organising lunches to making people sure people got in the start corrals and, you know, all various different things. But um but overall it was it was a great experience.
00:35:23
Speaker
Was that meant to be a team manager? It was very late notice, so I think they couldn't organise anyone in time. Sure, sure. Being team captain, did that elevate the experience for you?
00:35:34
Speaker
um Yeah, like I always like being in those leadership roles, not only at a running level, but that's, you know, what I do in my work as well. So I think I just naturally am drawn to those sort of sort of roles and I enjoy working.
00:35:48
Speaker
you know, i enjoy taking on that responsibility. But it is it is hard when you're trying to race and perform at as an athlete as well. Yeah, I can't imagine trying to have that whole logistical element to it and then also switching yourself into race mindset. but then Yeah, so it was challenging. But, you know, I very much enjoyed it.
00:36:08
Speaker
No, sure. And compared to the World Champs, did it have a different feel to it? Probably only that it was just like, It was a bit smaller.
00:36:19
Speaker
And so, you know, it meant that it was kind of more exciting in a way because we knew that we could actually perform well. um That sounds bad because we can't perform at an internet, you know, at a global level. but But we, Asia Pacific chance, we had a better chance of actually, you know, getting into those top 10 spots and and most of our athletes did.
00:36:41
Speaker
i I completely agree. like it's When you're competing against yourself so much, which is what the reality is of most of Australian runners on a world stage versus actually trying to compete for a team win, it must have a very different feel to it.
00:36:55
Speaker
Yeah. and And, you know, for those athletes who have never competed at that level before, It can be a bit of a rude awakening when you're going from winning races in Australia to running in Europe and coming 50th.
00:37:09
Speaker
yeah It can be a bit of a downer, but that's the reality because the competition, the level of competition is so high. So Asia Pacific champs were a really nice intro to some of those athletes who hadn't done it before because it was, you know,
00:37:23
Speaker
yeah they could actually have a chance of of being right up there. and yeah It was really exciting. I'm assuming that that reality check as such is something that you've experienced in your yeah career. How did you manage that?
00:37:36
Speaker
um I don't know. I remember my first ever international race and I wasn't really competitive at that point. um it was the I was at OCC. I remember looking down at my watch and I was going so slow that it wasn't even reading at pace.
00:37:50
Speaker
I was like, oh, this is what running in Europe is like. They're hiking races, they're not running races. um But, you know, not long after, you know, a few years later, i was up for my first world champs in France in Odyssey and um I managed a top 20 spot.
00:38:08
Speaker
And, yeah, for me, yeah at being my first world, like that was so was amazing. And I haven't been able to get that level since because the competitions just got better now.
Coaching Journey
00:38:21
Speaker
Yeah, do you put that down to to just like the sport has evolved so much in those last 10 years or so? Oh, yeah, totally. Yeah. It kind of brings me back to something you mentioned earlier, that you've been self-coached for the last five years. Prior to that, you were with Brendan Davis?
00:38:40
Speaker
was with Brendan, and then I was with Tim Corsby for a little bit until I fell pregnant. Okay, interesting. and then And then who's your current coach? Benny St. Lawrence. Interesting. What has driven you to go Ben?
00:38:52
Speaker
Yeah, so the main thing that drove me to go with Ben is my friend, John Dutton, who I have known for many, many years when I first started running. um yeah I saw him go through the ebbs and flows of competing and when he took on Ben as a coach, I just felt like he brought a lot more balance to John's life.
00:39:13
Speaker
now He was a a new dad and you know, he would put a lot of pressure on himself. And ah remember one year running with him at Warby and, oh, yeah, I've only got a 45-minute walk tomorrow. think Like it was just so refreshed and, you know, it was just a completely different mindset.
00:39:31
Speaker
um And so when I approached Ben, I actually had no idea that he coached all of these other amazing trail runners, including Sophie and Nutty, and I actually had no idea of any of that. So it was nice to come from a you know, different perspective and then find out all of that stuff later.
00:39:47
Speaker
It's definitely something that's crossed my radar a lot more in the last few months speaking to people like Sophie and Maddie and, and realizing I thought Ben was predominantly a road coach. That was also a very good trail runner. yes I didn't realize he coached so many trails, the change his approach.
00:40:02
Speaker
How has it changed your training even in the short window? um ah Yeah, we still, I feel like we're still sort of getting, getting going, but um it's nice to just take that decision making out. um You know, I've,
00:40:17
Speaker
I've got so much else on my plate that trying to decide what i was going to do every day, it's nice to be able to to remove that mental load, I guess. Yeah. And just bring some new ideas into it. I guess if you've been coaching yourself for five years, I'm assuming your approach to training in that time had changed quite a bit. it But there was always going to be things that we just can't think of, like gut training and things that you think you've ticked off, but you just haven't. So I can imagine having someone to,
00:40:45
Speaker
collaborate with now would be quite nice change. Yeah, for sure. And you're sort of, you just get into your routine of doing certain things and, yeah, sometimes it's nice to be refreshed and actually push yourself a little bit more so you probably get little bit too comfortable.
00:40:58
Speaker
and And I definitely became a fair-weather runner too. Yeah, okay. it's It's an interesting one because when I spoke to both Tyler Wyndham and Ben Burgess, they're both self-coached and their main reasoning, at least as it came across, was that because their life is either too busy or Ben's having a fun employment year where he's not working and just traveling and that the...
00:41:27
Speaker
perceived rigidity of a coach wouldn't work around their life being all over the place but you've seemingly got a structured chaos is yeah of a life I think that said doesn't come across bad but then you thought as you know having a coach is going to help improve that and it sounds like that's been the case yeah I think so but you just need to go into it with a mindset that it's okay to be flexible as well like I think when you when you have such a chaotic life and kids, you know if you know, sometimes, you know, I was up three times last night with the kids.
00:42:00
Speaker
um You know, you just don't know what's going to happen. Things can change really quickly. So um you need to go in with a mindset that, okay, it's okay to shuffle things around or sometimes you just, you know, you can't get out for a run and and that just has to be okay.
00:42:14
Speaker
have to accept that. And are those conversations that you're having with Ben in real time on the day? and umm Sometimes, yeah. Have you struggled with missing the run or pushing the run or for those sort things?
00:42:31
Speaker
Well, sometimes, but then it's it's nice having a coach to give you permission to say that's okay as well, I think, because sometimes it can be hard to make that call yourself. But if someone else is going, no, no, that's fine. And I guess I said the same thing as a coach myself. Like some people just need that permission to go, actually just call it today. doing this Yeah.
00:42:50
Speaker
No, I completely agree. I tried being self-coached for nine months and it was the worst nine months of my running. so yeah And you just keep questioning yourself and you're like, you know, yeah. Exactly, exactly. You just can't yeah you you can't be that objective voice that I think most people need at least.
00:43:06
Speaker
Talking about your own coaching, this is something that's definitely really interesting me. What year did you start coaching? I can't remember. It was a long time ago. it was probably It was probably very early on in my career, to be honest.
00:43:19
Speaker
um I was running with Running In The Burbs at the time when I first started running. um So it probably would have been early 20s maybe. Yeah. And ah one of the guys, Rupert, he was doing some work with Two Times You and they wanted to set up a whole heap of run groups and needed some coaches. So I started running a run group out of Two Times You in Malvern and then moved to Camberwell. And, yeah, run that group three times a week.
00:43:50
Speaker
Oh, wow. For quite a few years um before that, I think. I must have bought my house and then it was a little bit far to travel. So I i shifted the group across to a myotherapy clinic.
00:44:01
Speaker
ah Yeah, so I was doing lots of run group coaching and initially. And then I ended up coaching with Brendan for up coaching. Okay, interesting. Becoming a coach, is that something that you kind of always felt drawn towards? Like you have, so you're an occupational therapist, you have a PhD in exercise prescription. So there's there's definitely signs that you would would work well in this route. But yeah, was that a draw?
00:44:24
Speaker
Yeah, I guess it was just part of part of my growth. Like, you know, back in the day, I used to go to the gym a lot, um just do different group fitness classes. And the next step up was becoming an instructor myself. And I ended up being a body pumps instructor for 10 years. um So, yeah, probably just followed a similar pattern with with running. because It was the next the next step up was to to share my knowledge with others and be able to coach and and help others grow.
00:44:51
Speaker
And as a coach, How do you think about people's training? Do you have a ah ah philosophy is as such that that you approach things with? Yeah, for me, I think, you know, ah take all my experience and my my education as an occupational therapist so look at someone really holistically and look at all of their life stresses as opposed to just what they need to do to run.
00:45:14
Speaker
um Because I think, and experiencing that myself with the juggle of life, I think i think all of that stuff is really important. and And sometimes that might be, you know, pushing people run more, but sometimes that's actually pulling people back.
00:45:27
Speaker
and And the people you work with, are they a whole range of abilities? Yeah, yep. So I've coached people to um run in the in the Australian team for world champs, and I've coached people that are trying to beat cutoffs.
00:45:43
Speaker
I've got a lot of older women. I've got some guys. got, yeah, it's really – different array of people. That sounds sounds very funny. Do you find more women are drawn towards you than men? Not necessarily. I think I've had a really good mix, but I definitely get a lot of women that, ah you know, specifically would would like a female coach.
00:46:03
Speaker
I think they feel like they understand it a little bit more for for them personally. Yeah, it's interesting. Are there specific considerations you put towards coaching women?
00:46:16
Speaker
Again, I think it's just yeah the balancing act of what the rest of their life looks like and what their other caring duties are and things like that. um For some people, they would like, you know, they if they focus on their cycle and um we change things around that. But it's not a hugely different approach. And I think it's it's making things flexible that they can fit things in again to feel safe when they train things and giving them different options there.
00:46:43
Speaker
I find the training around... one cycle and whether you do alter things or or you don't, quite an interesting topic because it seems to be, again, very individualised about who needs what. But is that something that you do find a number of women need or is it quite ah a smaller percentage?
00:46:59
Speaker
think it's probably smaller percentage, to be honest. I did a course a while ago. can't remember. I think that's through La Trobe. can't remember it now. it was a few years ago. But basically the research showed that, you know, it's good to – keep it in mind but the general gist of it was that it just comes down to individual feelings and how people are feeling and um yeah the science the science is quite limited in that really it really comes down to subjective feedback from that so it's treating everyone as an individual and um changing things depending on how and that's what sophie broom said as well from the research side of things i just find it always interesting when you're talking to coaches that have that immediate contact and
00:47:43
Speaker
very often we're almost ahead of what the science will say or or even kind of sort oppose it to degrees because everyone's an individual case basis. Just curious, yeah, if you'd seen any different.
00:47:53
Speaker
When I reached out to you, one of the main things that I wanted to talk about, and it's because i was doing a quick search and it struck me that until recently there's been very few, at least when you search for them, women in coaching, specifically in trail running,
00:48:08
Speaker
we seen and seen a i mean We've seen a few more coming more recently. Jess Jason, the podcast. Sarah works with you, Ludowici. And there are others that are starting to get into it. But when you became a coach, were there many other women in trails coaching?
00:48:27
Speaker
Not really. No, not many. Trying think who would have been around at the time. Izzy may have been coaching back then. Maybe not. Maybe like Hany Alston. And Hany. Yeah, Hany was probably the main one. Yeah.
00:48:39
Speaker
Is it anything this is something that you've thought about before, just women in coaching? A little bit. There's definitely a demand for it. Like like I said, that you do get approached women specifically looking for a female coach, you know, a fair bit.
00:48:53
Speaker
um So, yeah, there's definitely the demand there. um I think the important thing that i that I always reflect on is that it's, you know, I think it's important to have some form of education and not just based on one's experience.
00:49:08
Speaker
um You know, that definitely comes into it, but I think it's good to have a background in some health practice as well. Yeah. Yeah, this is something that i I have my personal views, which I will do my best not to to to push across. It's always one of the things very conscious of on this. Yeah.
00:49:27
Speaker
You said that you were involved in creating the Level 3 course for Australian athletics as would been be now. do What's your view on accreditations in coaching? Yeah, it's it's an interesting topic um because there are lots of people that are athletes that just suddenly become coaches. And, um you know, as an athlete approaching those people, I hope that people are doing their research and understanding what their knowledge base is.
00:49:52
Speaker
um into Yeah, we we put a lot of work and a lot of time and energy into developing that that course. And so it's pretty frustrating that it's not being run at the moment.
00:50:08
Speaker
I think it just comes down to politics between Athletics Australia and then the state organisations needing to fund those courses and whatever else. um You know, for me, um yes, it was based on my experience, but it was also based on my ability to research and actually look at the literature.
00:50:27
Speaker
um make sure things were evidence-based. I was pretty set on i trying to make sure that things were evidence-based um because in the trail running world, you know, there's so much, ah there's so many opinions and subjective opinions on stuff.
00:50:42
Speaker
And, you know, I like the fact that I can differentiate between what's actually evidence-based and what's not. um And so, but yeah, I wanted to to sort of bring that to the table.
00:50:53
Speaker
Sorry, what were you doing in collaboration with anyone else? Yeah, so it was Anne-Marie, who's up in New South Wales, and she was already an educator um for a New South Wales athletics, and Jordan Anderson, who was also educator.
00:51:09
Speaker
i think <unk> also an educator Yeah, the the accreditation side of things is interesting because when I was going through it myself and looking at the level three, i was very excited to do it because it's perspectives and that you don't really get access to.
00:51:24
Speaker
Trail running especially doesn't really have a formal qualification process. yes And anyone can coach, which is amazing because it opens the door to anybody. But also, like you said, you just want to make sure people have the ability the backing that they should have behind when they when they do that. So I was, but I was very interested in in what that process of putting in that course together like, which sounds like very labor intensive.
00:51:46
Speaker
Yeah, it was. And it was great. Like we were, we were a great team and we all came from different perspectives and were able to contribute different things and we made sure the course was really practical. And yeah, I really enjoyed that time. And and i I was on maternity leave when we first started putting it together. So I had a lot more time on my hands to work on it. And yeah,
00:52:07
Speaker
Yeah, it was really fun. And the gra the courses that we ran were were fantastic, I thought. Yeah, really great experience. But we'll wait and see what happens. Yeah, i'm I'm definitely hoping they they come back. For and anyone, but specifically for any women that I've been listening that are wanting to get into coaching, especially if they don't have a PhD in exercises as their background, is there any advice you'd give to them?
00:52:30
Speaker
Yeah, I think, like, you first of all, going and doing some of the AA courses, I think, they're good. just to do the some of the recreational running ones. yeah And, ah you know, I think it's important to get that insurance behind you um to start with and that's easily available through AA. So um that's a good starting point.
00:52:49
Speaker
um I think, you know, it helps having had a coach and being able to bring some of those experiences and, you know, the knowledge sort of drifts down um and probably trying to network with other coaches. Yeah.
00:53:04
Speaker
You know, I was part of the group that initially got the Coaches Corner Facebook page together. And um the idea initially behind that was to make sure that we were providing more evidence-based feedback to people, but they got a bit gray after a while. People still opinionated and wanted to put their opinions in there.
00:53:22
Speaker
Um, but yeah, that was sort of that. So I think it's, yeah, it's good to be out of nowhere. And similar question, but this time for people that are looking to find a coach, given that there is no minimum requirement to become one, what advice would you give to, to that athlete? Um, it's probably talking to other people who've had coaches and seeing what different people's experiences are.
00:53:46
Speaker
Um, Autra now have um endorsed coaches as well, so that's a good place to look. You know that those people are educated and, you know, have have some qualifications behind them. That's probably the main two main two things for me.
00:54:00
Speaker
And also speaking to different coaches and, you know, you don't need to go with the first person that you that you contact. You know, it's good to have a conversation with people and see what their philosophies are and if you actually, you know, if you click.
00:54:12
Speaker
When I first came into the sport, you speak to one coach and I always felt obliged to go with them because they'd given me some of their time. And you start to realise that it is it is such a personal connection that you have to create with them to have a really good rapport and to get it to work. And that speaking to a number of people really is is beneficial.
00:54:30
Speaker
Yeah, sure. Brisbane 2032, we're kind of looking very far into the future. I've seen you post about the ah kind of campaign to get trail running into it.
00:54:41
Speaker
What involvement do you have with that? Yeah, so I sit on the trail committee with Autra. So i guess, you know, I see myself as the the athlete voice within that group to try it and work on various projects.
00:54:57
Speaker
One of the main ones at the moment that we're looking at is – um figuring out um what the sort of national champ races look like and, um yeah, how we how we create better competition at some of those national competitions because, you know, as we know, Australia is spread very far out and it is hard to get the best of the best at the one race.
00:55:24
Speaker
um So trying to to explore that a little bit. um And yeah, i guess an offside offshoot of that was was contributing to to some of the stuff that was going into the Olympic campaign.
00:55:36
Speaker
What are your thoughts? I feel like I might be and might not be able to get an answer out of this one, but what are your thoughts about trail running becoming an Olympic sport? I reckon it's really exciting. um It's really interesting when you see the different perspectives of the pro trail runners because some people are really for it and some people are really against it.
00:55:53
Speaker
Um, there's lots of comparisons to schema at the moment and the way that, um, the sport was altered, um, to fit in with, with what the Olympics wanted. And, yeah you know, people saying that that's, you know, it's not quite the same as, you know, it's not the reality of the actual sport.
00:56:10
Speaker
Um, and so I think people are fearful that that will happen with trail running. Like it'll be a really short loop or, you know, something like that. Um, but I think that organizers, or Mike Duggan, who's, um,
00:56:22
Speaker
you know, coordinating the campaign, you know, i think he's really trying to keep the authenticity of the sport within it if if we can get it there. um And they're getting various stakeholders involved and getting their support. So, yeah, it'll be...
00:56:36
Speaker
I think it's really exciting and i think it'll be a bit beyond my time as an athlete, unfortunately. But, know, if it happens, I hope that I can be involved in some sort coaching capacity. or the The work that's been done at the moment towards actually formalising the national championships as such, we trying to drive participation and and competition there, is it exciting you for the the future of the sport in Australia?
00:56:59
Speaker
Oh, yeah, for sure. um I think if we can get it right... um Yeah, the competition is just going to keep growing. And we're seeing it now, you know, times are getting faster and faster. And, you know, once we start getting more and more road and track athletes to the trails, the competition is going to skyrocket. So, um yeah, there's so there's so much potential.
00:57:20
Speaker
Yeah. it It must be interesting that you've been, what first ah year did you join with HOKA? 2007 okay so i'm assuming you've seen that but your own partnership but also the team as itself evolve a lot over the time do you do you see more opportunities on the horizon for people to make trail running specifically at least a ah part-time employment in australia i would really like to hope so i mean in europe and in the states people make it work for sure so
00:57:53
Speaker
I don't see why it can't happen here. think the main barrier is that with most people's sponsors here, they're sponsored by distributors, they're not sponsored by the companies themselves.
00:58:06
Speaker
And so there's there's a gap there of um yeah of what people can actually support athletes with. Interesting. Yeah, I would like to hope that that will change at some point or that people can get onto the global team.
00:58:20
Speaker
Yeah. It just made me think, do you have any and any intentions of doing anything with Innovate now that you have that side of the business? Not personally.
00:58:31
Speaker
I'm pretty loyal to Hoka. Oh, no, sorry, sorry. I didn't mean you. I and i meant more Tegan and reaching out. um But, yeah, look, I think that if he can get it financially to a point where he can um support athletes, he'll definitely be be trying to to get there.
00:58:47
Speaker
And we already have a pretty large T18. Yeah. yeah Yeah, so that's pretty cool. You have been, as I've mentioned a few times, you've been in the sport for a while. When i first started doing and podcast and I was doing some research across sort of the top 100 or so athletes, there were two names that really struck out to me. It was yourself and Steph Austin. When I look back through the results, how long you've both been put in the sport, competing at a very high level and are still competing at a very high level.
00:59:13
Speaker
You're both two of the most accomplished runners over here and, and yeah, probably the longest careers. Two sides to this question. What do you put that down to? And how have you kept both the sort of present and excited about the sport?
00:59:29
Speaker
Yeah, so I think the answer to the first part, I think we both have careers. We both have jobs. So as much as it would be really nice to be a pro athlete full-time, think I think that having other things in life is actually really important.
00:59:47
Speaker
And, you know, if things don't go well in trail running, there's you've got a different part of your identity. um You know, there's a lot of people that running is their their sole identity and and that becomes really hard to find other things.
01:00:00
Speaker
um And so by having that sort of balance, And having that forced requirement to not overdo it because I just physically don't have the time, um I think that's, you know, that's kept me injury free. And, um yeah, it's being able to ensure that I can can keep going and try different things.
01:00:23
Speaker
um The second part of that question, I think, is choosing different races. I'm not one to really go back to the same races all the time. Probably a few key ones that I do, but,
01:00:34
Speaker
I've used the the opportunities that I've had to go and see the world and travel and put myself in different races everywhere, um put myself against the best competition.
01:00:45
Speaker
um And so, yeah it's different every time and it gives me different experiences and it's been a ah really exciting way to see the world. Yeah, lovely. that It's definitely one of the things that I think about when you become so passionate about something initially, it's it's easy to feel that motivation, but to stay equally as motivated even in a definite different real over the time, very impressive. And it strikes me that you're also very involved in the sport from other areas. Like obviously we have the coaching side, the accreditation side.
01:01:14
Speaker
You seem to volunteer at a load of events from course marking to sweeping. You did broadcasting for Chiang Mai as well. did, yeah. Which looked very cool. How did that one come about?
01:01:26
Speaker
So I got asked to commentate UTA this year, which was a really cool opportunity, and um i I was really torn between racing it and commentating because, you know, as you know it's nice to be able to think of future directions to keep myself involved in the sport if, you know, once my time as an athlete is no longer.
01:01:49
Speaker
Yeah. But, um yeah, so when I started those discussions, it just happened that Chiang Mai was that week and I think Madge was off travelling the world somewhere. I don't know.
01:02:01
Speaker
So they needed to sign up at last minute. And, yeah, and they called me and and is I think Martin, I spoke to Martin Garth. um is like how would you like to just try it out like this week and it was in two days time it's like shit okay yep i'm free this weekend so i didn't have any time to research anything and normally me being me i you know i'd want to actually sit down and figure out what athletes are running and and and practice and things but i didn't have any time for any of that
01:02:33
Speaker
um So I just jumped in and yeah, it was it was great. It was the first time I'd actually sat and watched a race in such detail. um And it was, you know, it was a few days of really intense, like 10 to 12 hour days in room, um just watching online and trying to keep talking when things were quiet.
01:02:51
Speaker
It wasn't an exciting race. Like there was nothing out of the ordinary that happened. It was just, you know pretty straightforward. So it was up to us to keep the conversation going and yeah, talk about about various things. But yeah,
01:03:02
Speaker
it was really fun i really enjoyed it yeah it's a very interesting part because it's broadcasting and being able to actually talk and fill those empty spaces i can imagine is a very tricky skill and it's one that you need need to get developed yeah so it's yeah it obviously left you wanting more of that afterwards yeah yeah so yeah as i said then i was i was really torn about whether i was going to actually run uta or or commentate but um I decided that running the inaugural one as a as a world major was kind of exciting. so yeah gone And this brings us nicely to what is next. So UTA, you racing the 50?
01:03:41
Speaker
No, I'm racing the 100 mile. 100 mile. Okay, when you said, right. Wow. Yeah, wow. No, I can understand why you said you'll take a bit of a break after after uta but that's how's everything going for that?
01:03:56
Speaker
Yeah, sorry I guess as I said earlier, it's been weird recovering from Buffalo and then preparing for a 100-mile race at the same time. So hope hopefully Buffalo is just actually really good preparation for that. um i I went up to the Blue Mountains on the weekend to do a photo shoot for Hoka and I decided to go early so I could do my long run up there on Sunday. Yeah.
01:04:19
Speaker
The weather was absolutely horrendous. um And I got out anyway and it was beautiful through the Grand Canyon and then the rain just got 10 times heavier. And um luckily I bumped into Maddie Reddell too. I don't know that I'd actually met her before but she ended up um rescuing me and I got in the car with her and after she dropped me off she proceeded to rescue four other people from all the blue mountains yeah it was it was very wild out there so I didn't get my last big long run in that I would have liked but um sometimes you just need to know when to make a smart decision
01:04:58
Speaker
yeah Yeah. Yeah. At least you've you've lived to tell this tale. Exactly. All I could think about was all of those Blue Mountain stories with landslides and holes. Yeah.
01:05:08
Speaker
And I knew I was meant to be crossing the river and I have a feeling that that would have been extremely dangerous. Energy-wise, feeling ready to race, that's all that's all there?
01:05:19
Speaker
Yeah, I think I'm feeling good now. um You know, i've just gone I've just sort of started a new job now not new job, but my pre-maternity leave job I've gone back to um just in the last few weeks. So that's been a bit of a change and and quite exhausting and, know, I've been away a lot.
01:05:37
Speaker
So sleep-wise and stress-wise, it's probably not ideal, but otherwise the body's feeling good and I've been managing to still get in on my training and stuff. So, yeah.
01:05:47
Speaker
talking to a friend who's doing UTA and very similar circumstances, they've had something increase in life that sort of takes up a lot of that bucket that we have for our stress and and having to deal with those thoughts of, oh, i can't get my last long run in of how that's going to impact. Do you have anything that you kind of know is helpful for you?
01:06:10
Speaker
I think, you know, because I've been doing this so long, I know that my body can do whatever I want it to generally. So it's just relying on my experience and knowing that it's always better to go into a race undercooked than overcooked.
01:06:23
Speaker
And, yeah, you just need to be smart about it sometimes and you can't get it done, you can't get it done and that's okay. You know, not everything, it's all part of running ultras, you know, not everything is you know under our control.
01:06:37
Speaker
And, you know, you need to learn to adapt constantly. So, um you know, the race starts before the actual race starts. There's a lot more to it. That's a very good little bit of ah advice there.
01:06:48
Speaker
I think it's important and easy to lose sight of as well, especially as you get in those last couple of weeks and it becomes heightened in its importance. want ask the last question that, and I realize this is a very small percentage of our our audience, but you've got somebody who is newish to the sport They're very enthusiastic, but also showing a lot of potential. And they're looking at people like yourself that are sponsored.
01:07:14
Speaker
Potentially, there looking internationally where people have full-time pay, like salaried sponsorships, and they want to achieve that. What advice would you tell that person? Yeah.
01:07:27
Speaker
I've probably had some of these conversations recently. I think number one is, you know, just to get out there and train with different people, to do different races and don't just do the local races but put yourself against competition, um you know, ah but against real competition, like enter some really, really competitive races to see where you're where you're at against those people.
01:07:50
Speaker
um Sometimes new people coming into the sport look for sponsors. and sponsorship straight away because they see other people doing that. I think it's really important to make sure that you love a product before you try and reach out to companies, um, and prove that you, you actually want to wear those things and, and that they work for you and all of that sort of stuff. And, um, if you've got a better relationship with the, with the products and then you'll have a better relationship with the people and then that will develop over time naturally.
01:08:20
Speaker
Um, and then, you know, reach out for mentors, um, you know I'm always happy to have have those conversations with people. um Yeah, it was interesting chatting to Maddie over the weekend when she rescued me just about the pressure of Buffalo and the the media and being part of the single track team you know really got to her.
01:08:41
Speaker
um Yeah, those those things come with time and and and experience and it each race that you do is more experienced. We've been dealing with all those sort of things as well.
01:08:52
Speaker
um but yeah reach out to other people that have been through it and they can give you some tips as well wonderful and I'm assuming also not putting too much emphasis on that as a goal as well is is beneficial definitely yeah just just focus on training and getting that consistency and and enjoying it and you're finding out your why and um you know finding different people to train with and and go and explore and just You know, it's such a lifestyle, you know, and that's why I'm still in it too. It's such it's lifestyle. It brings lot of joy.
01:09:27
Speaker
Kelly, thanks so much for your time today and coming back on the podcast. It's been a pleasure to get to know you more and learn about your story and every avenue that you're you're in. Have a wonderful weekend. Good luck with your training up to UTA. I'll be keenly following along and we'll talk to you soon.
01:09:44
Speaker
Thank you very much. How good was that episode with Kelly? I really want to thank her again for coming on the podcast. I thoroughly enjoyed this and learned a lot while speaking to her about bunch of topics to do trail running and life.
01:09:57
Speaker
If you've also enjoyed this episode, please consider the sharing this with a friend and giving us a five-star review wherever you listen to your podcast. It really helps more people in the trail running world find us and that is what we are here to do.
01:10:10
Speaker
Have a wonderful day and we will catch you in the next episode.