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Podcast 23 - Time to clean up
53 Plays23 days ago
Join us as we discuss reverence for God's house
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Transcript
Introduction and Scriptural Direction
00:00:10
Speaker
Hey, welcome back to Grove Hill and our podcast. We are excited to have you back joining us. I want to take a little bit of different direction today as we dive into the Scripture and look at a story that might be familiar to you, maybe be less familiar for some
The Story of Jesus Cleansing the Temple
00:00:23
Speaker
others.
00:00:23
Speaker
Not once, but twice in the Gospels, it's recorded that Jesus Christ did what we refer to as the cleansing of the temple. Mm-hmm. Jesus goes in and he forms a whip out of leather and he drives away what were considered to be the money changers in the temple. Now there's a lot of misunderstandings about what this is all about, but what we want to do is we want to take that story, bring it forward to the 21st century, and talk about well what is it about the church today that Jesus would flip out of.
Misconceptions and Broader Implications
00:00:52
Speaker
So let's let's go to the story itself. John, what is the big misconception about that story? What is it that everybody thinks that Jesus is trying to prove there?
00:01:02
Speaker
Hey, don't be doing that in the church house. you know If I'm throwing it in layman terms, ah don't be... doing anything that mentions exchanging money that involves, ah you know, working in that manner of things going on in the church house. I think, you know, from very small statements, you could say that it looks like that. Yeah. And just a minute ago before we came online, we were joking about the fact now we brought that to the 21st century. We've applied it to donuts, coffee. Oh yeah. Don't bring anything to the church house. Yeah. Just don't do anything.
Historical Context and Temple Practices
00:01:34
Speaker
um
00:01:35
Speaker
The reality of the story is that Jesus was not actually getting onto the people for being money changers. So let's go back to the Old Testament where this all is grounded from. a man, Kyle's got it looked up over here. Read that for us. We've got Deuteronomy 14, 24 through or something like that.
00:01:54
Speaker
ah But if that place is too distant from you and you have been blessed by the Lord your God and cannot carry your tithe because the place where the Lord will choose to put his name is so far away, then exchange your tithe for silver and take the silver with you and go into the place that the Lord God will choose.
Exploitation and Misuse in the Temple
00:02:10
Speaker
You then silver a use silver to buy whatever you like, cattle, sheep, wine, or other fermented drink, or anything that you wish. Then you will, and your household, shall eat there in the presence of the Lord your God and rejoice.
00:02:25
Speaker
So yeah, it's obvious that there was endorsed by the Lord, yeah that you're taking money in, you're exchanging it. It says if it's too far away, then then exchange the tithe there for silver or buy your cattle, buy your sheep. And this is all talking about ah within the realms of the the temple. Absolutely. So basically, you know, they don't have cattle trailers and things like that. Correct. And they've to sacrifice something. They don't have to drive a cow or sheep all the way down to to Jerusalem. Right. They can exchange it in their hometown, take the money, buy what they need when they get to Jerusalem. So there are people there under the instruction of God. So what we're talking about is not that there were money
Modern Church Practices and Concerns
00:03:01
Speaker
changers. We're talking about how and where the money changing was taking Correct.
00:03:06
Speaker
Okay, the how is number one, they were exploiting the people. It's kind of like the only guy who's got gas in town, he knows he's the only guy that's got gas in town, he's gonna jack the price up and he's gonna he's gonna rob the people. They were doing that. They knew that these people because they were faithful Jews wanted to do the sacrifice, they needed to purchase the animals and they were the only gigs in town. right The other problem is the where. If you notice in the story, it says that he was in the court of the Gentiles. If you know your history about the temple, the Jews were allowed into a place where the Gentiles were not. The Gentiles were only allowed as far as that outer court. So...
00:03:45
Speaker
That was not where where God had encouraged them to set up this thing. That was supposed to happen outside of the temple. They had moved into the court of the Gentiles, which meant, effectively, the Gentiles had no place to pray.
00:03:58
Speaker
Those who were trying to serve God, they had been eliminated from participating in the act of worship because they were there. So, you've got the background, you understand it, next time your preacher says, don't sell your magazines here, that's got nothing to do with it, unless it's some kind of questionable magazine. But other than that, it is ah it's it's not about that. It's about the how and the where.
00:04:21
Speaker
Let's talk about modern church. A lot of things that we could bring to the forefront. Some things that we could talk about that are part of what happens in the church today where you and I agree Jesus probably wouldn't be real
Financial Integrity in the Church
00:04:33
Speaker
happy. Sure. right. So who wants to throw out throw out one? ro I'm to stick on the the money topic real quick. Okay. um And use our church and example, right? Yep. We have Student Life Coffee Shop.
00:04:43
Speaker
There's obviously an exchange of money. There's coffee, whatever it may be. Mm-hmm. If we were doing that in some improper way, right? I'm skimming off the top to pay my house payment or or buy a new, whatever, you're you're getting into issues, right? The money there is donation directly to missions and students and and discipleship. And so how it's handled, how it's ah come across is super important when it comes to those types of things. And so are the things that are being exchanged in church for personal gain or is it for the kingdom? And I think that's a good clarification to to draw a line and say, we're not here for personal gain. We're here for the kingdom. Okay.
True Worship vs. Performance-Driven Services
00:05:21
Speaker
Good job. You got another one No, not specifically, but like going out to that 30,000 foot view again and looking at it from a very much a bird's eye view, we really don't get it right so much whenever we look at this in the sense of what are we there for? You know, um, it's great question what are we there for? And it's for worship. God allows those things.
00:05:47
Speaker
God allows and, uh, lets us exercise the freedom, but we have to say, where's our investment in the sense of, and I know that gets a little sticky again to where we're saying, Hey, don't do this in here.
00:05:59
Speaker
God allows and gives the freedoms, but let us judge on the sense of where's our investment of worship where versus our investment of doing things to exist in the the current culture and the current climate today. so So let me throw some out at you because we pulled some together before we came online and let's talk about them. The first one goes right back to the story itself in verse 17 of Mark chapter 11, where the story is. it Jesus is talking, he says, is it not written that my house will be called a house of prayer for all nations? Yeah. One of the things I think that Jesus might be most upset with in the modern church today is it's about performance without prayer. Yeah.
00:06:40
Speaker
We're building ministries, we're building worship services, we're building all these different things, and the church is running more on talent than it is on the power of God. Mm-hmm. We have celebrities on the podium. We're promoting this guy's the next great worship leader and this guy's the next good great book writer. And there's nothing in in themselves that are wrong about those things.
00:07:03
Speaker
But then you ask yourself the question, are we making room for God? Are we allowing God to do this? Yeah, i would ah I'm just going to throw out Will Canterbury. he stands firmly He's a member of our church. He stands firmly on the idea that Grove Hill is where it is today because of prayer. um And I would say, even with that in mind, we fall short, Major Lee. To be able to to really establish everything we do by first consulting the Lord, I think would be a priority amongst all churches. and What you're saying is, man, we go ahead sometimes and we go, hey, this is what our dream is, our goal is, and not look back and say, okay, what does God want us to do as as a church
Leadership and Prayer Practices
00:07:46
Speaker
in America? Yeah, where those checks and balances to see what comes in the church of where are the motivations? You know, are we making sure that people's hearts are right as they begin to do certain things? Because we've all heard, and and even outside the church that we serve at now, where we've seen people's motivations, maybe not in the moment, but we've seen it over a span of time where you're like, right was the motivation so I could be used by my heavenly father to do his work? Or was it because I just wanted affirmation? Sure. And I just wanted to feel good about
00:08:20
Speaker
Hey, somebody told me I was good at speaking, so I wanted to speak. So I think we really have to have checks and balances as we allow and invite those into the church. um I think, and we just actually talked about this briefly this this afternoon in our worship planning before we came online, because we do it weekly on Tuesdays together as a staff.
00:08:39
Speaker
One of my pet peeves, I don't know if Jesus is upset about it, but your pastor is, is when churches... schedule prayer and worship service as transition times. Hey, let's put a prayer there so we can get the guitarist off the stage. Let's schedule prayer here so we can get the ushers down to get... um i mean that To me, it feels like prayer becomes an afterthought that point. And a piece to be manipulated as part of the service. And and I'm guilty. of I've done it before in my and just inevitably came away going, man, you just cheapened. You just cheapened that act. You just made conversation with God...
00:09:15
Speaker
like it was, I can't think of any of another word besides just a transition piece in all of this. um I would say that powerless worship services that have no presence of prayer are an insult to a very powerful God.
00:09:35
Speaker
And it's like time to take credit for what God's about to do because we got this. If an emergency comes up, we'll let you know. We'll give you a ring. oh um I feel like we've got too many churches built around that today. and Let's go a little bit deeper, okay?
00:09:51
Speaker
um How many churches have you been in where you've got people who are in places of leadership, teachers, deacons, elders, whatever, who will look at you and say, oh, I can't pray in public.
00:10:07
Speaker
More often than I'd like to admit. yeah um And we all like to code it in, well, man, there's just such a good person. Well, if they're not fulfilling the biblical qualifications of doing what God's asked them to do, whether it's pastor, whether it's deacon, elder,
00:10:27
Speaker
we've got to call it on the mat, but we do it because it's always been done that way. yeah And it's not, let's peel back the layers and say, oh, does this align with Scripture? Does this align with truth? And we do it without any checks and balances again. So it's so detrimental, not just to the... I think sometimes we look at the institution of the church, but we don't look at the people sitting in the pew that God has asked us to disciple. And we allow for the sake of somebody's affirmation again...
00:10:58
Speaker
50, 60, 100, 200 people to not have any leadership whatsoever sometimes.
Comfort vs. Challenge in Church Messaging
00:11:03
Speaker
so I'd like to hear some from some people because my automatic assumption is if you can't pray in front of people, then you're probably not praying in private as well, right? Because if yeah if you've practiced in private a lot, then you should be confident or standing with one with the art But I'd like to hear from some people.
00:11:20
Speaker
If you do, if you're proficient at prayer in in quiet places or privately, and there's just something publicly that you can't do, yeah whether it's Satan's attack saying that you're not good enough or what it may be, but that may be the case. It may be there that there are some people that have that private prayer life but don't speak out in public. So that's you. I want to hear from you. I want to hear what you have to say. Absolutely.
00:11:42
Speaker
So let's throw another one out there. ah Part of the Western mindset, Western culture, we have churches where I feel like Jesus would walk in and be very uncomfortable because comfort is the main focus of the church. yeah And in one put ive years ago heard a pastor say this, he said, we spend more time trying to take the nails out of Jesus' hands than we do trying to follow Him.
00:12:08
Speaker
um We focus on comfort. We focus on... And again, some of these things are not bad. It's just when they become the focus. But we we focus on making people at at peace with their lives.
00:12:23
Speaker
But the Bible talks all over the place about you will join Jesus in His sufferings. It talks more about that than anything else. yeah And we don't want to preach that part. Why? Because Americans don't like to hear about being uncomfortable. no right In fact, there's other than peace, right, which is not necessarily a physical thing. Scripture just constantly tells us that we're going to be in suffering. We identify our in suffering. we We are dying next to Him on the cross. We are ah taking up our cross. We are giving of ourselves to, and it talks about in this world, you will have troubles. It talks about when we walk through the valley of the shadow of death. And so Scripture is very clear that this world that's not our home,
00:13:05
Speaker
is a place of discomfort. yeah And um in he in that he promises peace. He promises to be there with us. He promises to walk beside us. But we kind of take a different stance in saying, hey, if you come to Jesus, everything's going to get better,
Programs vs. Personal Ministry
00:13:21
Speaker
right? um You align yourself with Christ and he's with you in those in those troubles, but the troubles are still there. yes And so I think if we took the approach of um instead of, hey,
00:13:34
Speaker
this is going to be all good, and hey, there's going to be sacrifice and involved in this, but He is with you in those sacrifices, I think you'd have a lot more buy-in from people understanding that there wasn't empty promises from the church saying that Jesus was going to solve everything when they got there. I think there's two camps in this too. So I'm going to maybe...
00:13:52
Speaker
I don't know if I say pushback, but ah like sometimes there's a good thing in allowing the unbeliever. Because we do. We want to appeal. like We want to have good security. we want to have There's levels of comfort. and That word, you go a bunch of different ways. But for the unbeliever, hey, I want to have the comfort of knowing my kid's got a good spot to go to. sure Or I want the comfort of, man, I don't want to sit on a plastic seat. I want to sit on a cushion seat. Because that's the comforts we're talking about. But then for those who have been seasoned, for those who have been in the gospel, who have been a part of the the efforts and the work that God's doing, like, guess what? You don't need to be in that same spot. ah So there's two camps. And I think we can have, not ah in a sense of, you know, this is a long-term comfort, but we are being prudent.
00:14:43
Speaker
We're being, you know, watchful and we want to be able to do those things, but it's not so comfort as the end destination. Like we want you... in a comfortable environment to be able to hear the gospel, which will be uncomfortable sure as it changes your heart. So, sure yeah, I don't i don't know. maybe Maybe there's a clarification of words. Maybe there's a clarification of words of safe yes and comfort, right? yeah um In my household, I pray that my kids feel safe. Yes. Right.
00:15:09
Speaker
um sure But my kids are not going to be comfortable all the time. right if i If I provide everything, if I make all the decisions for them, if I protect them from all the hurt of the world, yeah I'm not doing them any benefit. It's actually a disservice to them. And so yes, my household is safe and you want the the church and and the idea to be safe. But at the same time, there's not this desire for comfort. Otherwise, we become slothful. right well and the the I think we've we've talked about it here on the podcast before, but that comfort...
00:15:39
Speaker
It's very closely aligned with consumerism. Sure. Because that's what some people do. Oh, hey, we need to make sure the consumer is good so they keep coming back, so we're going to make them comfortable. Yeah. I mean, think about the billions of dollars spent in our country every year about focusing on our comfort. Oh, my. Yeah. um I think another thing that's misleading is, I think it's in Isaiah where the prophet says, comfort, comfort, do you mind people? Mm-hmm.
00:16:02
Speaker
We misunderstand that. yeah God's not saying, let me make you comfortable. He's saying in the midst of the suffering you're going through, let me bring you comfort. I'll be with you. Yeah. And those are two entirely different things. It makes me think back probably a week or so ago, I came in from something and my wife said, hey, what are you about to do? I said, I'm about to sit down for a second. She said, okay, but don't get comfortable. We got things to do. That sounds so familiar. Doesn't it?
00:16:27
Speaker
Were you at my house? hold Hold on, I just said this last night. Before I sit down, do you need me to get in? Yeah, I think sometimes God looks at His church and says, hey, don't get comfortable. We still have things to do. yeah There's still a journey to walk, there's a battle to fight, there's a war going on. There's still people I care about. So sure, if you need a break, take a break. But yeah get right back into the battle and be willing to fight. um In fact, Jesus spent, I would say, a large portion of His time on the earth attacking comfort.
00:16:57
Speaker
yeah Saying you've become too comfortable with your ways. You've become too complacent with what you're doing. Let me challenge you a little bit to get your head back in the game. Alright, I think we may have time for one more.
00:17:09
Speaker
Do you want to take one more? Yeah, yeah I'll take right one more. ah Programs replacing people. Man, does that break Jesus' heart? For sure. ah Yeah, I think at the end of the day, yes. yeah ah Jesus cared about people.
00:17:26
Speaker
So we should care about people. And programs, although good in some ways, like they can help drive us to a certain focus at the end of the day, we can never let it be superseding the relational part of what we do with people. Yeah.
00:17:41
Speaker
Programs replacing people could also be accompanied by ah programs without the gospel. Right. And so it's like maybe just doing something as a church because it's what we've always done. Yeah. um And what is the benefit to the gospel? What is the benefit to discipleship? And a lot of times we're doing something and there's no ah benefit to someone's life. It's just a thing, right? It's another thing on the calendar. Yeah.
00:18:08
Speaker
Listen, if you're a spiritual leader out there in your church, deacon, elder, staff member, senior pastor especially, ah word of encouragement. I've learned this just from the churches I've grown up in as well well as the ones I've served in specifically. If you want to see your church come alive, you've got to kill some sacred cows. Yes. You've got to find those things that have just been in place forever just because. In fact, there's many times people can't even tell you why it got put into place in the first you know situation. So they're just doing it, continuing to do it. And what happens is many times churches burn their people out serving in ministries that don't matter rather than putting them face to face with people who need to be discipled and taught and encouraged and like you said, taught the gospel. sure yeah
00:18:51
Speaker
That's why I think there's many large, large churches in our country, and small ones as well, but specifically the large ones, where they can point at the numbers and go, man, we had 1,500 people at church this past week, and 10 of them can tell you about Jesus. you know yeah What an indictment to where the direction and focus and emphasis of that church has been. You know, in student ministry, I have parents all the time saying, hey, ah why don't the youth grew well why don't they do this? Or why don't they do that? A lot of times it's exterior stuff outside the church that doesn't have a lot of discipleship value to it. Where I'm wearing weighing out, okay, what resources do I have? and what am I going to portray in in and using those resources. So oftentimes I'll tell parents, man, that's a great idea. Maybe grab some of your kids, friends, and maybe another set of parents and and go do that. like Have some fun, build that community with them. But as far as what the church puts on and what the church uses as the front of their tactics for discipleship, that doesn't really fit into the realm of what we're doing here. And so our our things are going to look more like DTA, you know, Disciple Training Academy. yeah ah Different things that are diving deeper in the few hours that we have with the students per week.
00:20:00
Speaker
I mean, we've said this before. You line up six food trucks and you get me $500 worth of fireworks, we can get a crowd here. For sure. But what are we going to do when we get them here? And so those things aren't bad. not at As long as there's a goal and intention to say, okay, we're we're reaching people for a reason. How do we get them connected? How do we get them lined up? And so it's not like it's like no no church, no fun, right? but um But we have to be strategic with how we conclude those events. and Yeah, open up the door on staff meeting.
00:20:31
Speaker
And i I think this guy, every time we've ever mentioned... this type of fall festival or this type of thing. Okay, how are we going to get the gospel? Or how how is somebody coming to be invited into relationship to where the gospel can be exposed? to Offer connection, offer community, those things. yeah If you drive an hour in any direction from this church, you'll come across some of truly the largest churches in the state of Tennessee and maybe some in the in the country. um They do concerts, they do fall festivals, they do Christmas things, they do Easter things.
00:21:05
Speaker
Many of them do it very well. very well um But sadly, I would say that there's a lot of them, if you get past the surface and you get past the the showy, the colorful, of those kinds of things, what you find is there's no bones to the meat. yeah There's nothing to hold those things in place. And so you know the first time somebody gets tested, their struggle comes, their suffering comes, Satan comes at them,
00:21:33
Speaker
they're they're grasping at straws going, what do I do? I don't yeah don't know. And this is why I'm very thankful. i mean our Our men's ministry just relaunched last night and and John here, man, great vision for that and is leading our men through some deep discipleship. That's literally the name of the study. So there's a plug for that. Guys, if you're looking for a place to study and get involved and learn more about the doctrine and the theologies of the church and why we believe what we believe, that's a great place to go. I love that this guy right here, he spends less time entertaining our kids than any youth minister I've ever been around, present company included. And I'm very thankful for that because our kids are getting the right kind of stuff that when they transition from your group to your young adult group, man, they're're they're ready for life. They're ready to approach adulthood. yeah
00:22:19
Speaker
I pray that more and more churches are getting the idea and understanding, man, we've tried too long to draw a crowd instead of trying real hard to get converts to Christ.
00:22:31
Speaker
And there's a big difference between
Conclusion: Aligning with Jesus's Teachings
00:22:32
Speaker
the two. So any other thoughts, some good stuff there? No, I can't, I can't add on that. I think as we grow in numbers personally for our church, we need to be mindful to make sure that that depth of discipleship grows just as big as the numbers that are coming in. And so, so yeah, keeping that connection with people and, and keeping the main thing, the main thing. Yeah. So let's track this all the way back to the original story, Jesus cleansing the temple. The problem was the how and the where.
00:23:02
Speaker
And I would argue even the why. sure What was the heart of those days? And those are three questions that I challenge us as as a staff at this church as it continues to grow to ask those questions on a constant basis.
00:23:14
Speaker
how do we How do we get the gospel in people's lives, get it in their hands, get it in their heart? Why are we doing that? And where do we go to do it and do it well? Yeah, we are serving the Lord's house and are we good stewards of it? It's a good conversation. We may come back to it next week. Yeah, sounds good. Hope you'll be here to join us. Follow, like, share. We'd love to hear from you anytime you have opportunity to drop some thoughts to us. We'll see you next week.
00:23:42
Speaker
Bye.