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Triple Drain Pinball Podcast Episode 73 - Does it HAVE to move?!
1 Plays3 seconds ago
Hosts: Joel Engelberth, Tom Graf and Travis Murie
We are back with another one! Stern just released Transformers Pinball and we have thoughts. Strong thoughts. Tom has deep thoughts. Joel has questions and Travis attempts to keep up. We get distracted and start talking game theory and next thing you know we’ve talked for 2 hours. Enjoy :)
YOUTUBE - https://www.youtube.com/@tripledrain
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Email: tripledrain@gmail.com
Merch: https://silverballswag.com/collections/triple-drain-pinball-podcast
More Merch: https://www.zazzle.com/store/tripledrain
Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/triple_drain
Travis' stuff: https://www.youtube.com/@ThePinballCompany
Tom's stuff: https://www.youtube.com/@Foxcitiespinball
Joel's stuff: https://www.youtube.com/@FlipNOutPinball
Shoutout to Jackson Gee and his incredible artwork. jacksongee.com
Shoutout to Brad Johanson and his company Alter Creative Media for his intro video. Altercreativemedia.com
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Transcript
Introduction & Song Appreciation
00:00:09
Speaker
You know, something about that song just...
00:00:23
Speaker
you know something about that song just It makes me feel all giddy inside. Isn't that great? I hope that's shared with, I hope other people feel
Podcast Routine & Holidays
00:00:35
Speaker
that. So thank you, Jason, all those years back for making us that song. Because we, it's great. And for people that don't know, we don't edit that in. We listen to it. I hit the button and we listen to it every episode. So it does. It's great. It's a great way to start. It is Memorial Day, May 25th. We all had a three-day weekend.
00:00:52
Speaker
And hopefully you guys feel good. Refresh four-day weekend. Oh, Tom doesn't work Fridays. Yeah, he's got life is great. um You guys get weekends?
00:01:04
Speaker
Be a dentist. Damn it. I chose the wrong job. ah Dude, life is good, man. Life is good.
Listener Gratitude & Podcast Identity
00:01:12
Speaker
It's great to be outside. It's great to hang out with some family and and eat food and just get a sunburn and all that stuff. So ah everything's good. I'm not apologizing. I'm not apologizing today for this being lot. I'm not going to go down that road. That's what I do every episode.
00:01:26
Speaker
It hasn't been two months. It's been like a little more than a month. But we have a game release. We have a game release and we're excited to talk about it. I thought you were going to apologize for the non-transforming Optimus Prime.
00:01:40
Speaker
Just diving right in, Tom. Just diving right into it. He shall see scores! Thank you to... For the record, Stern Pinball. I did not say that. would like to put that there. No, I want to thank people. I want to thank our Patreon supporters. I don't know why you're still supporting us, but I really appreciate it. Honestly, we really... Because we make, like... I'm active on there. wasn't active for the past month, but I'm back now. Exactly. We're rather inconsistent, but the fact that I feel like we have loyal supporters, and that's so great. Here's why you want to do it. We're three...
Call to Action for Twitch Support
00:02:20
Speaker
Guys who like pinball. Yes. And we came with a clever name. Thank you, because I was... It was going to get That's all the reason. It was going to get bad. Speaking of support, I do... This is a call to action, everybody. And you roll your eyes all you want. But our dear friend, Tom, who we love so much. Okay? He's working his little buns off, trying to get... What is it? Partner Plus? Partner Pro? Partner Plus. Partner Plus on Twitch.
00:02:48
Speaker
And to get Partner Plus on Twitch, he needs 100 subs. It can't be gifted. It can't be prime. You got to pull out your pocketbook and you got to pay the $5.99. That was right. And you just really have to do it for this month. because Just one time.
00:03:02
Speaker
Here's the thing. They make you do it for three consecutive months. And somehow the last two months, I've... Did the requirement. So now you're there you're so right there.
00:03:14
Speaker
I'm 80 out of 100 right now. I need 20 more subs. Yep. So right before the episode, i i I did it. I got on there and I subbed. So that's I pushed on. I got him out to the 80 mark. We need 20. We need 20 of you listeners to buy Tom. I will kiss Joel in a photograph.
00:03:34
Speaker
if you can make this happen. Yes, we need 20 of them. That's it. And it's it's it's May 25th. If you hear this on June, you missed it. You missed it. So if you hear this in the month of May, he needs 20. Fox City's pinball. Fox City's pinball on Twitch. give him a little get a Show him a little love. show And if it doesn't happen, it's okay. I'll just go into deep depression. yeah No. That's it. That's our word. That's the only
Transformers Pinball Game Discussion
00:04:01
Speaker
thing we're shilling today. We can go right back to ah Tom's talk on on our transform shell Transformers. Speaking of shill, okay, i don't we've all released content on Transformers in the last years. And what I've learned is if you speak positively about a pinball machine, ah half the internet just says shill.
00:04:24
Speaker
They just assume, oh, the only the only reason he would have any positive thoughts on this pinball machine is because clearly he's in he's making money or trying to like be nice to his friend. my but It's like, ah can I just like it? Am I allowed to like it? Did anybody hear Joel's take on Halloween?
00:04:44
Speaker
I mean, he practically took a dump on it and i you know it I couldn't get the ball up the middle ramp onto the upper play fields. And guess what?
00:04:56
Speaker
Spooky, Luke, Bug, they still talk to me. They're still great guys. They've they've gone on to make some amazing pinball machines. Like, it can happen. I used to get accused all the time on this for fence sitting.
00:05:07
Speaker
I've had some hot takes every once a while. You know, if somebody's going to be a shill, you can call Travis a shill because he works for a pinball company, specifically the pinball company. ah so My kids cannot eat or go to school with unless you guys get off your butts and start buying some Transformers right now. So, that's fine. Travis, you can call them shell all you want. A little Tommy boy over here and myself, we just like pinball.
00:05:35
Speaker
Can we like pinball? I don't know. That's enough. I don't know. I mean, I i liked what I saw from from a design standpoint. so So, how do you...
00:05:47
Speaker
like Okay, let's we'll just dive in. Where do we even start with Transformers? Let's talk about it. Transformers is out. Transformers is out. it It came out. There was a leak before, so we all saw a little bit of before. yeah And the big question. And let's honest. Yeah, Optimus Prime looked like Fat Albert.
00:06:04
Speaker
Optimus Prime from the leaked angle looked interesting. And there was a lot of like, what's going on? Well, maybe it's mid transform. You know, maybe hams is gone maybe they put too much oil in them and it was bloated. you it looked interesting. And then the game came out.
00:06:21
Speaker
And that's when we realized very quickly. Optimus Prime doesn't transform. So my I will be honest to the guy that thinks I'm a shill. Was I disappointed to hear that Optimus Prime didn't dis ah didn't transform? Absolutely, I was disappointed.
00:06:38
Speaker
Absolutely. I didn't care. oh okay, Tom. Well, I mean, the the last game didn't have a transforming transformer in it, did it?
00:06:51
Speaker
No, but last guy wasn't Transformers. hey Oh, you mean the original Transformers. Yeah, the DMD one. George Gomez one. Got it. no You had Optimus Prime in the middle, and he got hit in the nuts.
00:07:04
Speaker
and So we moved down. Now we hit him in the shins. then you Starscream that moved like this. Back and forth. And then you Ironhide, and he did this.
00:07:18
Speaker
Well, if you're wondering what type of... This is audio. I'm just doing a little jig over here. It's great. Yeah. You've got to watch on YouTube to see the adjustment. Yeah. Like and subscribe on YouTube. yeah So that's a good point. I love the hysteria. I the historic aspect of this. I didn't even think about that. And can you, ah Tom, were you all active on Pinside when that one was released? Did people lose their mind that that there was nothing that transformed when that game came out? or
00:07:48
Speaker
i don't think so, but i don't really remember. That was a long time ago. That was like 14 years ago or something like that. I was just a young pinball player back then. So, yes. Was I personally disappointed? Of course. I i like mechs. I like things moving.
00:08:07
Speaker
um But it's really made me think a lot this week. And Dennis Creasel actually said something on on the pinball show that I liked, which is, you know, moments are awesome. Like seeing seeing the godzilla go the Godzilla building go down.
00:08:19
Speaker
It's awesome. And it's awesome for the first 10, 20 times. And then after that, it's not as awesome. It's not that it's bad, but it does take a little bit of time and you just don't notice it as much.
00:08:30
Speaker
I will tell you what you do notice is a broken mech. What you do notice is a mech or a mech where switches aren't registering. Like you do notice that.
00:08:42
Speaker
And that doesn't go away. That is constant. And so the vibe that I'm getting, there's no official anything from Stern, but the vibe that I'm getting was it looks like that mech did transform and late in the process, something about it wasn't reliable.
00:09:00
Speaker
Something wasn't reliable. Something wasn't consistent. And so they had to make the tough call of we don't want to put out an an unreliable product that's going to cause more problems down the road. So let's just, we're going to be safe here and and pull it.
00:09:16
Speaker
And honestly, i bet I bet pinball manufacturers do this all the time, and we don't even know it. I bet that happens all the time, and we don't even know it. And yet here we are. We do know this one because it's Transformers and it looks like it transforms. And unfortunately, the marketing material that was released does kind of hint or show that it at one point did transform. Like this was a last minute call. don't think it just hints. It literally shows that it transformed.
00:09:44
Speaker
The pictures on their official website show an insert that's not there anymore. Like this was a last minute call. And I feel for him. I feel for the design team, Elizabeth Gieske, Elliot Eisman, to have that changed at the end. That's that's a gut punch. i feel I feel for George Gomez to have to probably make that call. You know, that, that hey, we got to do the right thing here. It reminds me of Pirates when the three spinning discs were pulled. and That's a great example. the The chest opening and closing was pulled. that It's a gut punch. It's a gut punch to everybody involved.
00:10:16
Speaker
But now that we've said all that, Please don't ignore. And yet, yes Pirates of the Caribbean, those games are going for ridiculous amount of money with yeah those features being pulled out. 100%. And that's what I'm saying. What I hate about all of this is people have just... they just It's hard stop.
00:10:38
Speaker
It's like Transformers Machine without a transforming mech. I'm out. And it's like, can you... Why not? Like, please don't ignore the rest of the game because the rest of the game looks awesome. Like, I am so excited to play this game. I have not played it.
00:10:57
Speaker
Travis has. So we're going to tune in to Travis here. We're going hear a little little travis Travis talks here on on his first experiences because I haven't touched the game yet, but I've watched a lot gameplay. Looking at this layout, dynamic is a very dynamic layout. Very excited to see what it does.
00:11:12
Speaker
And what else? The other mechs that are in the game look awesome. So it's just, to me, don't don't count out an entire pinball machine for one aspect. And for some people, that is a definitive must-be. It's like Led Zeppelin not having Stairway to Heaven. I'm out.
00:11:28
Speaker
It's like, well, maybe that's not the best example. Led Zeppelin isn't the greatest game. Ray Day did the best he could. Oh. Yeah. Oh, you don't like... You like how there's up one? like what's up.
00:11:39
Speaker
Okay. Is it the greatest game? Shoot's good. It does shoot. It does shoot well. Would you have wanted like a massive stairway mech in that game? I mean... No. If it worked out, maybe, but...
00:11:52
Speaker
All the way to heaven, dude. That stairway went all the way. No. All right, Travis, you've played. yeah Travis, you have played. um You've done it. You've played Transformers. what What is the general public that ah what all of us that have just looked at pictures and watched few little, what are we missing? what's what's how What are you feeling?
00:12:12
Speaker
What are your thoughts? I mean, it plays great, think. Chill, chill. He's just selling the game. Chill. This is not real. Okay, go ahead. Sorry. I mean, so here's the tough part. It's like, what what do we want to talk about when it comes to Transformers? Do we want to talk about theme? Do we want to talk about Optimus Prime? Do we want to just talk about just the layout? Do we want to talk about the code? We've talked enough.
00:12:35
Speaker
So, yeah okay. We've moved past it. Yeah. So let's face facts, obviously, you know, it not transforming sucks, right? But there's no, there's no way around it. And that would be cool if it accepted a ball or is obviously going to be integrated into the code in some form, obviously a major way because, you know, it relights your multi-ball. There's like a progressive jackpot build there. That seems like there's shots there, obviously. So I think overall,
00:13:04
Speaker
Outside of that, when I look at the totality of the rest of the game, I've said this on some of the other content I've done, it was a lot of fun playing it. I thoroughly enjoyed it. And there's just, guys, there's so much code that's already there and so many fun rules that are already there and well thought out to where it's not...
00:13:24
Speaker
The easiest way to explain this to people that if you're newer to pinball or you're trying to conceptualize what actual good code is, because I know we've talked about this before in previous podcasts, it is like when you are starting to play a mode, you can tell it's well thought out and it's progressive thinking that gets you from point A to point B to point C that chooses the way Elizabeth, not Emily, Elizabeth, like... I misspoke before the podcast, and here we are. So, Gieske, I apologize. i just got to take a shot at Joel.
00:14:03
Speaker
I apologize. he He was just thinking about his golf cart. That's all. Go ahead, Tyler. Keep talking. Yeah. But at the same time, it has the hallmarks of what Elizabeth's code and rules usually are, right? To where yeah she has some stuff in there to where you hit the wrong shot, you'll get a mini punishment for it. We saw that before in previous games. And then there's a lot of callbacks to other games. I don't want to spoil it too much, but a lot of callbacks to other games that had...
00:14:32
Speaker
excellent rules and excellent structure where she's pulled it into transformers, but made it her own. So it's not like it's a direct rip and copy and stuff or anything like that. But I think it's kind of like, um, it's kind of like that book to where it's like still like an artist. i don't know if you guys have heard that book before to where basically what it talks about is, is that if you are able to see things that people do at a high level and you ignore the things that they do at a lower level or average level and you just pick,
00:15:01
Speaker
at what you know they excel at. And you do that across the whole board and you start formulating ideas of your own and you start pulling it into what you do to where again, not a direct copy or anything like that, but it's inspired by that. That's the gist of what what I'm saying here. So you can tell that there's things that are inspired by other games that have done excellent code and excellent rules decision and excellent things to make you want to explore different parts of play field.
00:15:29
Speaker
or make you wanna play a certain mode over and over again. So what's unique about this game, I can tell it's kind of pulled some of those concepts and those ideas, but there's lots in here that you want to keep doing over and over again. It's not just one thing over and over again. And that's kind of the difference. Like Joel, you hinted at it earlier that, you know, when you were talking about using the same mech multiple times, right? And you've heard Tom and I say that a bunch. We've said that about medieval madness before. yeah You know, it's just one of the things that people people don't realize that if you play a game a few hundred times and you see the same thing over and over again, you'll get tired of it regardless of how great the game is. And that that goes for any game, even like the Godzilla building or anything else. You just tend to skip through and try to get to the next thing.
00:16:14
Speaker
But with this, it it feels like now it has the rules integrated in such a way that you want to play certain things over and over again. And the rules aren't broken out of the gate. The rules are fully well fleshed out. Obviously, there's going to be refinement as more and people play it And then they kind of get some more ideas. But that's the thing. It's like...
00:16:35
Speaker
You can't work around a broken mech or
Mech Integration & Gameplay Balance
00:16:39
Speaker
work around a mech that just gets boring after a while, whatever. and not talking about Optimus Prime, but any mech in general. But if the code is fun, like that right there is everything. if the code's not fun, yeah then it's like, what does it matter what the ball does if everything else around it is boring to the player?
00:16:57
Speaker
From a game theory standpoint, it doesn't matter. Now from just a caveman, you know, use whatever side of your brain you need to do just to see the ball zip around and do stuff. And that's it. Yeah. Excellent. But after so long, if you don't have everything else integrated with it to make that whole package and that whole experience, then that's what gets boring after a while.
00:17:16
Speaker
I will say, well I have a few things. Um, Broken mech like turtles. Everybody knows I love turtles. i I bought a pro because at the time I was like, okay, the premium has the glider mech. That looks pretty great.
00:17:29
Speaker
And it has cranking the bops up and down and it has the balls feed out of the van and it has the the spinning desk rotates two different ways. I will say now being a pro owner for multiple years, the amount of glider mechs that have failed, like I'm sitting here going, I'm so glad.
00:17:44
Speaker
I'm so glad I didn't go down that route because I would be fighting that mech. um Another example would be, ah well, normally when I'm at that, is this a pro game or a premium game? If there's ever a secondary play field, like I feel like that's a, like Jaws, I feel like you have to have the premium because that upper play field adds so much to the game.
00:18:06
Speaker
Godzilla, if somebody has a Godzilla Pro, like I could understand that. Like I could understand. Sure. I like what I like about the mech, the building moving is the the diverter aspect of it. It actually changes how the game's playing. Same thing with the Mechagodzilla mech. But like I could understand why you you go with a Godzilla Pro. I understand why people go with a King Kong Pro.
00:18:29
Speaker
because the like the game is there. And so that's why I feel like... ah John Wick, this is a question for you. ah Tom, you have a John Wick Pro, right? Right.
00:18:40
Speaker
I just dreamed it. I got to the end of the game that's coded. Oh, sick, dude. Yeah. but He's like good. There's one more. The, uh, the crate, the crate moving up and down.
00:18:52
Speaker
Like, yeah, would that, I feel like there's certain mechs that it's like, once you've experienced that a handful of times, it actually is deterring you from getting further in the game.
00:19:02
Speaker
Yeah, it's not it's not that bad of a mech, but it it's it's definitely makes the game harder, I guess. it's Yeah, it's not a... In my opinion.
00:19:13
Speaker
Yeah, so I'm just trying to think. up but um I'm trying to think of games that are like... I don't know And I'm not saying don't buy all the premiums or pros, but I think sometimes the the flashy things that really grab us early on, the more and more and more and more that you play the game, those are the things that could break or start to get not like the the moments where it could wear off a tiny bit. um What I will say about Optimus is if you look at the art, there are tire tracks on it. So I do think that he came down.
00:19:42
Speaker
into a truck form. And if you look at the play field, I'm pretty sure the way he came down, he actually blocked that vertical up kick. So in my opinion, I think it was some sort of, like, I think it blocked the vertical up kick. So I think it was probably a, you bash him, he stands up, he's now not blocking it. Now you have to hit the scoop and then you come back down. That's, so I think it was a mech that blocked your progress or blocked you from getting And I just think back to like the crate on John Wick. There are times where you don't want that crate in the way. So I feel like, I don't know. I just think it's one, if if the mech wasn't reliable, that would suck. Especially if you're like, I can't progress. Why aren't you registering the hits? you know
00:20:20
Speaker
Or if I'm very curious if the way that that ball came off the mech, would it be very frustrating? There is a center post on this game. So there's a lot of that we won't ever know. We won't officially ever know. But I do think thematically having a mech in transformers that was supposed to transform, not transform.
00:20:35
Speaker
That sucks. But gameplay wise, we might have dodged a bullet here. We might have. And that, that probably sounds like very shilly. I'm just trying to find the silver lining here, but we might have, we might have dodged a bullet.
00:20:46
Speaker
But here's, here's the reality reality, reality too, when it comes to mechs, um, You know, i think a lot of us, we got to take a step back and realize that pinball really originated as a location based game, right? A lot of these, like it was just after COVID that really home use really exploded, surpass locations. And now it's the majority of the industry now. However, what I find very unique about pinball is not much has changed in terms of adjusting to a home user, because obviously if mechs are in a play field,
00:21:18
Speaker
Really in all reality, I don't know if people started building pinball imagining somebody buying this game and playing it a thousand plus times on their own over a couple months, you know, whereas it was just get it on location. You know, people are going to play it a handful of times and then go to the next thing and the next thing. I mean, the games are literally designed for you to lose your ball. That's the idea.
00:21:40
Speaker
So I think I kind of find that conceptually unique in the way that we view mechs. Because I don't want to sound like we're, like at least for me personally, I don't want to sound like I'm anti-mech. I think mechs and games are cool and they could be pretty much anything. They don't have to be something that captures the ball. It could be something as cool as just a drop target put and used in a creative manner on the play field or even a spinner or something like that.
00:22:04
Speaker
But I think think really it's interesting that We look at these mechs and sometimes it's thinking, okay, would this mech be fun after 20 plays, 25 plays, 50 plays?
00:22:16
Speaker
And most of them are like most cool mechs are for sure. It's just after a while, if you played a few hundred games on something and it's a central thing and you do it over and over again, I think it's like anything else. Our brains tend to want to go see something new, do something a little bit special.
00:22:33
Speaker
Right, exactly. yeah And I mean, a lot of it is too for us as pinball players, especially if we view it through the prism of, okay, I'm going to start this mode. I'm going to stack this multiball. You get almost robotic in that, you know, your roadmap over and over and over again. And you do that and you see the same thing over
Game Modes & Replayability
00:22:50
Speaker
and over and over again. I mean, that's just a natural occurrence. so I think a lot of times too, we got to all take a step back and think of, okay, what is it like when we experience a pinball machine for the first time, fifth time, or even the 10th time?
00:23:02
Speaker
If the mech is still cool at that point, then I think it's a good mech. Like if you like it by your 10th player, 10th time you use it, it's still a good mech. But I think any mech is you're going to get tired of it after seeing it a hundred plus times in a row in the same month. Eventually somebody will. I mean, there's, I, I understand there's probably some of you, ah freaks out there listening to us on the podcast. You're like, I could play my game 5,000 times. Like Joel, Joel does that and he, he survives fine, but. Yeah, the Medieval Madness Castle has never gotten old. um Which, I mean, it's an amazing mech. Don't get me wrong. The Medieval Madness Castle, it's an amazing mech. And i I absolutely think there are mechs in pinball that don't get old. Like...
00:23:42
Speaker
the The shark fin popping up on Jaws, that doesn't get old. That's not going to get old. But it's not really ah this cosmetic thing that you're interacting with. It's now of a sudden you have a shot that popped up that's moving and you've got to hit the shot. So was what my question I was going to ask you is, what are your thoughts on cosmetic mechs? And what I mean, an example of this would be Labyrinth.
00:24:02
Speaker
Labyrinth has two of the, I can't think of their names. It's the creatures, the little kind of fox-looking creatures that their heads pop off. They, like, during that mode, they come out, and they're just on servos, and they just dance around. And every time you hit that right over it but or orbit, it pops up, and it'll say something. And then it also has the little worm.
00:24:22
Speaker
Hello. The little worm. I forget his name, too. That pops up. And it's just a cosmetic mech. So it's, like, from a reliability standpoint, you don't have a ball bashing it. Those parts. And if those mechs don't work, the game still plays. So it's, like, do you feel...
00:24:38
Speaker
Like, don't... I'm not saying everything should go cosmetic because I do like diverters in games and, like, things that change on ramps and drop targets and all. I'm not saying that, but it's like... I don't know. Cosmetic mechs in games...
00:24:54
Speaker
Like, what if what if the Transformer would have transformed, but it wasn't a mech that you're actually interacting, like like hitting with a pinball? Would that have been fine? Would have been totally fine if Optimus was just off to the side and moved, and you didn't interact with him at all? Like, should we...
00:25:11
Speaker
I don't know. What are your thoughts? Is that a cop out? No, I want the ball. I want shark eat ball. I don't want to just see shark. I don't know. You know, I could tell you straight up. There would be people that still be upset, but there would be a lot of people that would be happy. I think barrels of fun and spooky have proven that proof of concept that if you have something that is just simply moving, even if it's not interacting with the ball, people will notice it and people will think it's cool.
00:25:33
Speaker
I mean, look at look at Evil Dead, the tape player or the deck player. That's just moving back. You don't interact with it at all? i think the People notice it. The swinging chair on the on the cabin, sure, that chair does technically hold a ball back, but it's not it's not a mech that you're bashing or hitting or anything. like it's But it's it's a cool... What about ah King Kong? King Kong, I think at one point, King Kong was supposed to grab a ball, and then they changed...
00:26:01
Speaker
That is essentially a cosmetic mech. So it's a cosmetic mech that i think I think it's really cool, but at the same time, that cosmetic mech wasn't enough to make Tom buy the premium LE.
00:26:14
Speaker
But yet he still has a fully fleshed out amazing pinball machine in prop. Well, cheap. Well, look at ah look at Pokemon. they had a cosmic They had two cosmetic mechs.
00:26:25
Speaker
They got the Pokeball that wiggles, and then on the right side, they got Pikachu. yeah That just... Head just moves back and forth. So, I mean, this isn't like it's an unknown thing from Stern. They're capable of doing it. Any pinball manufacturer out there is capable of doing it. But I do think that's kind of a what I like to refer to as window dressing.
00:26:45
Speaker
I mean, it... kind of it It looks good. Like if you're on the side watching it, even if you're, if you're playing, just watching the ball, you may not notice it's the same thing as the LCD screen or beautiful art that's on the, on the game. But if you're off to the side, you're going to notice those things and it adds onto the game. And if it didn't add onto the game, these companies wouldn't be doing it. They wouldn't be advertising it in the matrix.
00:27:06
Speaker
it wouldn't be an add on for a limited edition. You know, I think there's just different levels of it, right? Obviously at the, at the highest level, I think it's something like Jersey Jack does at times to where they actually take what you could tell as part of the theme and they fully integrate it into the actual play field itself that interacts with the ball. Like a take guns and roses, for instance, right? Have a habit trail that look like drumsticks yeah coming back. So something like that, I think that's taken it to the nth degree. And,
00:27:35
Speaker
Granted, there's probably another pinball manufacturer out there and multiple have probably done something similar to that. I just can't remember it. But to me, that's like the ultimate thing when you can figure out something like that, like they did it in Harry Potter too.
00:27:46
Speaker
Right. Cause I mean, you have like a cauldron accepting balls, I think on the right hand side, if I'm remembering that right. And then you have the, uh, the staircase. That's moving back and forth. well right That's a pretty intricate mech, but it is, it's more, I'm saying that's not, that's not like the window dressing ones. They're just there not interacting with the ball at all. I'm saying that's something that's like literally fully in the theme and it's fully interacting with the ball and it's fully affecting gameplay. Yeah.
00:28:13
Speaker
Harry Potter has the three wands that are the ramp on the right or the the habit trail on the right that goes into the cauldron. Those are those are just that's a visual thing. It's got the the girl on the broom that's kind of on a spring. I think that's a cosmetic like there's a lot. I was trying to think ah Elton John Elton John. i was I was like, what?
00:28:31
Speaker
There's a lot of cosmetic Mac in that game. I don't know anybody that thinks Elton John's a bad game. That's a great game. But the only thing, like the unique mech in the game is you got Elton John playing a piano. But like the ball doesn't physically interact with that mech. It's a locking mech.
00:28:47
Speaker
It has a way to lock balls up there. But like it's not like you're bashing Elton John. Like that mech can just be a mech and do its own thing. So I just think it's – I'm not a pinball designer. I'm not here to tell people how to do their job. But I just think it's really –
00:29:05
Speaker
I don't know. i Tom, you said the the Dune Worm was one of the greatest mechs recently. And it's partly cosmetic because of the shell the worm, but that is a very interactive mech.
00:29:18
Speaker
Very interactive mech. Extremely. So it's like I applaud them for making that interactive mech. I'm glad the worm doesn't just pop up out of the corner and like, hello. but But at the same time, if that mech fails...
00:29:33
Speaker
That game is – if that mech fails at all, that game is – you're stuck. You can't do anything. You're sending me in depression. Yeah, yeah. So, i don't i yeah, I don't want to sit here and tell people don't – we don't need mechs that interact with the ball, but I do think – I'll tell people, don't yes, we do. I don't think every mech has to interact with the ball. i'll Joel, I'll say it Yes, we do. Like, look at Godzilla.
00:29:59
Speaker
Prime example of it. When we talk about, if we're talking about this is the next level, it's not just a mech for the sake of being a mech. It's a mech that has purpose and is very thematic. Okay. Godzilla.
00:30:10
Speaker
Most obvious one is a building. yep it goes That goes up and down. It changes the direction of where the ball is coming from. Like after it comes out of the ramp, which flippers are going to. There's a ball lock involved. And then you can go down to the left habit trail. It's a bridge that actually will break apart. So that's very thematic, you know, with Godzilla rampaging through the city. On the right-hand side, you have that ah that rotating shield out there for Mechagodzilla that has a jump ramp.
00:30:36
Speaker
Once again, very thematic that they even use it for the code where you're knocking down the shield or you're advancing things toward Mechagodzilla. You hit them in the tummy. Right, exactly. So the dag is yeah that's really what we mean by having multiple things come together at once to where you have to think so far ahead to integrate things into the theme. Then, of course, naturally, you got to make it fit into the bomb. You got to make sure it doesn't get stripped from your game.
00:30:59
Speaker
And then you got to figure out the right rules to go with and the right vibe to go with, right? the The right mode, the right LCD thing. There's just so much that goes into it, but there's proof. In these games, across all manufacturers, what happens when you bring all those variables together? So to me, that's the North Star right there for anybody to try to achieve. Now, naturally, you're true North Star is to make sure the games are designed in such a way they can actually be manufactured at scale. Yes, of course. Yeah. At the very basis. But just from a design standpoint, I would think that would be the North Star. Otherwise, we're going totally retro and just trying to do something from the 70s, like a single level EM game or something like that.
00:31:39
Speaker
So using Godzilla, you are arguing that we do need mechs that interact with the ball. He is arguing that, yes. Yes. Just because of where the industry is at, Joel. Like the vast majority are home users. And if we're declaring that we're going to have 750 or 1,000 LEs, if we're saying we're going to have unlimited $15,000 CEs now for Harry Potter from JJP, we're saying Spooky and Barrels are...
00:32:04
Speaker
focusing mostly on just one singular build, that's the top tier build possible, that has all the mechs that it needs there, and they're trying to interact with the ball as much as possible, or have the window dressing mechs that move around, it's obvious that that's where a lot of pinballs head it. So it's like everybody has to make a choice. Do they keep heading that direction in light of rising costs, rising labor costs, rising prices everywhere? Do you keep pushing that envelope?
00:32:30
Speaker
Or do you find a stopping point where you're like, okay, this is enough. We need to focus this way. So that's what I find unique. That's obvious that Stern has kind of like, as much as everybody talks about mechs, I think it's fair to say most people think that Stern's LEs lack in that department compared to other other manufacturers, other games. I think we see that across the board, but but Stern relies on internet capability.
00:32:57
Speaker
Right? They're doing that, that whole thing. There's not anybody else that I can think of that's making sure that achievements are in the game as much as possible. That's making sure you can have a profile. You can have all these statistics, all these stats, all this data.
00:33:09
Speaker
And plus too, they're not necessarily trying to make games to go on location all the time. Like every single release from Stern has to go on location all the time. So to me, that not just affects design, that affects what themes you're choosing.
00:33:23
Speaker
Because some themes you're better off choosing because you know you need to get CoinDrop, you know you need to move five, 10,000 units compared to somebody else that knows that they just need to move 1,000 or 1,500 to a home.
00:33:36
Speaker
Like it's that's a much different discussion to have in that, but... I don't know. I think games need Mextral. If they're going to go to houses, yeah oh i I don't want to miss out on that. And I think there's a way to do it that has been proven. like multiple Multiple designers have proven they can do it. I think it's just a matter of can they are they allowed to keep doing it consistently? Because I don't think that there's designers out there that actively just have no idea how to do it. I think they all do. It's just a matter are they allowed to do it within the constraints that's put on them by the manufacturers themselves to make sure that the product stays under, or the project stays under bomb and they can get it out and meet the deadlines. I think that's the real thing that's going on here. Yeah, I'm, man, yeah, I'm, I'm going to have to go back and re-listen to this. Cause I just, I don't, maybe I don't know what I'm arguing, but I'm, I don't get me wrong. i love, i love mechs that interact with the ball. I really do.
00:34:30
Speaker
Now mech. And I also like mechs that create a moment. But if that moment is easily achieved, like, whatever, Medieval Madness, we talk about it so many times. like even Most novice could step up to Medieval Madness for the first time, and they could stumble into a way to blowing up that castle.
00:34:47
Speaker
And there's a reason that game's beloved is because almost everybody gets to experience that, and it's like, holy crap, that castle just blew up. That's what we love, right? But then... for the people that have this at home, it's like, okay, that's that's a mech that's too easy for me to enjoy. So then you have other mechs on the other side of that. So not not Star Wars Fall the Empire, but Star Wars, Steve Ritchie's Star Wars.
00:35:09
Speaker
The Death Star blowing up, you you really have to work to get that to blow up. But when it does blow up, so cool. So cool. Like such a cool moment.
00:35:21
Speaker
But that's why I feel it's too far because so many people don't get to experience that. So now we have the John Borg Death Star. And now with the fix, a lot of people can actually see that thing blow up.
00:35:34
Speaker
And so it's like maybe there's your balance of that. That's where you don't want to have a really cool mech that's trapped under super deep code. So I i want to have I want to have those things. I do want to have those things. Yeah.
00:35:45
Speaker
Yeah, you're just talking, you're basically talking game theory and something every single manufacturer should be doing, which is don't put all your cool shit like locked behind something or deep in the game.
00:35:55
Speaker
Like obviously I think everybody understands that you want cool stuff to happen early on in the game, like as close to the start button as possible within 15, 30 seconds. But you don't want to blow your load immediately to everything and make it all like everybody saw everything the first time they played it. And now what's going to draw them back in? That's the tough part, right? That's the location argument against home use.
00:36:18
Speaker
If somebody is on location, they're going to keep pumping quarters because they want to keep playing. Like it's okay to play 20, 30 games before you decide if you want to move on. Whereas you're, you know, you pay seven to $15,000 to get a game into your house.
00:36:32
Speaker
I would like to think you're going to play it a little bit more than just 20 times. So naturally you're going to end up getting a much different experience. So I think really that's, that's the argument I was making earlier that things have changed. It's interesting how we do the mechs, but the way that people experience these games are under much different conditions compared to what they were a decade or 20 years ago.
00:36:54
Speaker
I think that's, I think another example I've just thought of. And then Tom, i have a question for you. Tom was i you believe oh go ahead i was going to say, ah you know, pin side and pinball in general was really hurt by, by jaws. Right.
00:37:10
Speaker
Didn't eat the ball. Yeah, no e-ball. It's number three on pin side. People got past that. It's crazy. it's It's crazy. that Yeah, i don' I thought you were going to give up on your LE once you realized it an e-ball top. good for you for powering through.
00:37:27
Speaker
and i did it. Yeah, it's and I and I don't doubt I honestly I'm really excited about I'm really excited about Transformers and I i know this will be something that people get past.
00:37:38
Speaker
ah John Wick is another example. We had a I streamed on Flippin' Out. We did a chatting stream and and Mike with the pinballers he honestly thinks John Wick now is a top 10 game. He loves that game now.
00:37:50
Speaker
Yeah. Tom, what are your thoughts? I know I streamed streamed the last couple days and I just had so much fun just like cranking through it. It's, it's a fast game.
00:38:03
Speaker
The shots are brutal, yeah but like I got, I got to the duel, which is you, you have to complete two the three things. Uh, you don't have to complete it, but you have to play through either all the modes, do all the adversaries or do, uh, uh, six of the multi balls.
00:38:25
Speaker
So basically do all the multiballs. There's four car multiballs. There's the excommunicado and whatever the other one is. I can't think of right now.
00:38:35
Speaker
But you have to do all all six of those and then it it'll basically like the wizard mode. Nice. He was raving about it.
00:38:46
Speaker
In that game, there's no guns in the game, Tom. How can you play the game when there's no guns on the artwork? any others It's hard stop, Tom. How do you do it? got over it. At some point, we're just playing pinball, right?
00:39:04
Speaker
You would think. I think every release is under a microscope, right? like Every time a new game comes out, like somebody just wants to find...
00:39:16
Speaker
some fault in the game. Tom, you're Harry Potter. Does it have the derpy three-hour dragon? Yes. how do you play that How can you play the game, Tom? How can you do it, Tom? don't even notice it's there. Actually, occasionally I'll look at it and I'll be like, oh yeah.
00:39:32
Speaker
Derp. um I'm sure some, you know. I'm sure it would bother some people. The thought I had. i I have some games, you know, with some scratches on them and they don't bother me, you know? Or like, there's some older games. I have a Paragon with, you know, there's a little bit of wear on the play field. I'm okay with that. Man, you're?
00:39:55
Speaker
I know. i Good on you. You're a saint for looking past flaws and just enjoying people for who they are. I know you do that. for It carries into your whole life. It's a crazy life. One thing that popped in my head, which was when we were talking about mechs that interact with balls. So it's like, how do you have a mech that can be very funny? You're saying, don't trap a behind code. Don't trap a behind code. So it's like, okay, you want a mech that most people can interact with, but also you don't want the mech to get old.
00:40:25
Speaker
So my thought was like, what is a mech that you can experience, but then you can experience that mech later in a different way that gets us excited to go deeper? And the thought I had, and please let me know if you think of another one. The thought I had was Cactus Canyon.
00:40:41
Speaker
Cactus Canyon, the drop targets, those quick shots, most every player, at some point in time, you're going to go down an end lane and one of them is going to pop up and you go, oh, I can shoot that. I can shoot that. So most novice players can experience those quick shots.
00:40:53
Speaker
They can experience that. But... If you get deeper into the game, there are modes that use those drops in a completely different manner. So one is the outlane ball save.
00:41:05
Speaker
All of a sudden, all four drops will pop up, and one of them will be green. You have to the green one. Then there's another mode, the martial multi-ball, where the two drops pop up, kind of blocking a shot. You have to hit between them. But if you hit them, it's like now all of a sudden this mech that everybody gets to experience is being used in a completely different manner, deeper in the game that creates a different moment and a unique feeling with the same mech.
00:41:28
Speaker
That's pretty cool. That's pretty cool to me. So can you did do you have another example of a mech that does something like that? Like it's obvious to a novice player right out the get-go, but then creates something different. I know Dune, the worm, the worm, it does a whole bunch of stuff, but there's one mode that all of a sudden it's a bash toy. It wasn't a bash toy ah when, you know, most people are going to see what it does with grabbing the ball with a magnet.
00:41:53
Speaker
They're going to experience that, but it being a bash toy, nope, only one mode that has that, and you got to bash away. Let's think. Write in to TripleTrain on gmail.com and let us know what we're thinking you Unless you've already, you know. I got nothing.
00:42:08
Speaker
I'm trying to think. But that's a I think it's a good... um i I was also trying to think of mechs like Carl D'Angelo with Winchester. Like, good on you. That carousel mech is insane. It's insane because obviously... I waiting for you to get there. That carousel mech is absolutely insane. But like the reliability side of that, that's terrifying, right? Like that thing has to work to for that game to work.
00:42:33
Speaker
Yeah, most mechs have to work. Yeah, well, like, that's such a big mech. And I'm experiencing that with Batman 66, which we'll talk more about later. You know, it's amazing, like, when one of your flippers goes out, the game really sucks.
00:42:47
Speaker
Oh, yeah, you're right. You're right. But when you have an entire huge section of the play field that is changing dynamically, that's got to work. But, man, it works. Novice can experience part of that. And then all of a sudden, the deeper you get into code, it's like, holy cow, it's doing it's in a configuration that's really different than than but what i'm what I'm saying is it can be a simple Mac that you don't even think of like a flipper. And if the flipper is dead on the game, you can't play the game.
00:43:15
Speaker
so True. yeah That's why people prefer Sterns with the snappy flippers. That's so damn important as well. True. But you can't you can't just isolate like, okay, there's this this special mech in this game and if it fails, you know, the world's going to end.
00:43:34
Speaker
and True. There's a lot of mechs. What I'm saying is, like what's a how do you find that balance? You want a mech that is not trapped behind code, but also doesn't get old. And and I'm trying to think of mechs that can be used. I can't think of a game. i know I know there's a game that has ah that has a diverter on a shot where there's a certain mode where it it'll keep diverting down to your flipper so you can loop.
00:43:57
Speaker
You can loop shots, and normally you can't. Normally that diverter isn't always diverting it down. And it's only... It's only for one particular thing. So all of a sudden you're looping a shot over and over again that you typically don't get a loop over and over again. So it creates a unique moment with a simple diverter.
00:44:13
Speaker
And I can't, what game is that? It's something I played. It might be Harry Potter. No, I'm just saying like Harry Potter has that whole staircase thing with the, you know, changes paths like crazy i Write into Triple Drainer. Leave a comment on YouTube. There's a game. I'm telling you, there's a game. I know, dude doesn't Dune have Trying to throw softballs here.
00:44:37
Speaker
du Dune has, ah I think, ah ah something where it keeps... So you can loop an upper shot. I don't know. But that's what I... Give me more of that. Okay, so we've we've gone into game theory. We've gone into the game design because clearly we know so much, right? We're so smart. um We don't know what we're talking about. Travis, you have any examples? We are pinball experts, damn Listen to Examples of what? What want an example of, I'm just trying think like you said if Godzilla is the North Star,
00:45:05
Speaker
um Well, I mean like freaking King Kong with that, with the bridge mech, the fact that there are modes where the log diverters always up so you can just do crazy stuff on the upper play field and then other times where it's down.
00:45:17
Speaker
And guess what? That's thematically, it makes complete sense. with the play field, with the modes, with the artwork. And that's what we talk about when bringing the whole package together. I think it's it's more or less, you just have to unlock that part of your brain that you start seeing it. Because once you see it in one thing, you start seeing it in other things. I think it para it creates that nuance appreciation to have for these designers and the people that make the decisions for what they're doing in these games. These are like little things and like unsaid, like kind of like um we can go back to Jaws. We were talking about that a second ago, right?
00:45:51
Speaker
One of the cool things that makes that target really pop is the decision making for how the play field art is with the water all around. And then the decision for how the GI is underneath it or the LEDs like going red.
00:46:04
Speaker
Cause you're chumming the water. you start seeing red building up. And then on top of that, you realize that that's your progression for getting to multi-ball cause you have to keep chumming until it's fully chum. So something like that, that's a great example of it right there. And I think we can go up and down. I'm sure there's modes that are built into Dune, for instance, i don't have a ton of time on it, but with the, uh, what is it? The day and night, something like when it switches over, like I'm sure there's plenty,
00:46:31
Speaker
plenty in there like that. I mean, there was obviously there were certain things put into a GNR with the light show to where you have to keep going forward. You're just, you're blinded, but that right there, you feel like you're in a concert and you feel the music going. So to me, something like that,
00:46:48
Speaker
that works as well. And I don't, I don't know if we want to consider lights a mech, but I mean, speaking of light show, uh, didn't, didn't, uh, the team do some really cool stuff with the expression lights, uh, transformers. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. That's, I think people don't, I'm telling you people,
00:47:05
Speaker
I will say this, and I said this on the YouTube channel as a pinball player. And I've told you guys this. I told you guys like off podcast, off stream, like my true thoughts.
00:47:17
Speaker
And I'm like, this pin right here, once people play it and they see how things are integrated together and they actually, you could play this as a white wood and it would be fun. like like Like, let's just, we've been glazing the code. I'm telling you, the layout itself is fun to play.
00:47:32
Speaker
It's got the perfect mix. It feels like, It feels like Elliott took Bally Williams and just pulled it into modern days and added a modern twist to it. That's what it feels like to me because there's certain elements there that just feel good.
00:47:47
Speaker
Like hitting a, I usually don't like a Vuck, but hitting a Vuck across the play field feels good. That kind of reminds me of like a Judge Dredd type thing where you're hitting that sniper way up the play field. You're talking about the Vuck next to Optimus way back in the left. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, on Transformers. Yeah. I mean, something like that. Reminds me of like World Cup soccer.
00:48:09
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. The one yeah by this by the goal. Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay. Something like that as well. Exactly. 100%. mean, there's... just I mean, even... Similar. It's not not the same thing, but... No, it's just like a reminder of it because that's when it was really popular back then. And there's it could still be done today. I mean, you could still pull design theory to today, but even the... um Like for instance, oh gosh, the the horizontal shot from the upper flipper, right? That kind of that kind of feels like ND500-like or shadow-like with that shot that's just laid on the flipper, you hit it and you know you you get a jackpot, you get a combo, a combatron start, like there's just- So that's not an upper, it's actually a ramp shot. So that's what I- That's ramp shot, not a loop. You think it's an upper loop, but it actually, what I've heard is it feels like the left ramp on god on Godzilla.
00:49:01
Speaker
Because you got to hit it clean yeah and then it's like the wave ramp on jaws. It's a one 80 ramp. Yep. so you got to hit it clean and then it'll whip around and come back down to your left flipper. Right. um Exactly. So I, I, what I, okay. So let's talk about an upper flipper to me now.
00:49:16
Speaker
and because i'm I'm so smart and I'm i'm so experienced you know in this hobby. You've passed your five years, Joel. Five years, you're an expert now. I just learned so much. That's it? I actually don't know. I got to look at my... I know I'm past five years. but um An upper flipper. If you put an upper flipper in the game, what my the very first thing that I'm looking at is what feeds the upper flipper. Because great, that upper flipper just gave me three new shots or four new shots.
00:49:43
Speaker
But if feeding that upper flipper is a pain in the butt, then that is not fun. ah Prime example, Alien. Alien has an upper flipper. to hit that freaking uh the comatose shot whatever it is the the one that that goes up to i don't know what it's called but like the shot to feed the upper flipper is a hard shot so it's a hard shot to feed it and now you have to make another shot that's hard so to transformers what feeds the upper flipper The center spinner right up the middle.
00:50:14
Speaker
That feeds the the upper flipper, and it feeds it fast. And then your other option is the far left shot, which goes across a ball path, kind of like King Kong, and just very easily feeds that upper flipper in a nice, consistent manner. So you have two ways to feed an upper flipper, and both of them are different and seem fun.
00:50:36
Speaker
There's actually a third, i think And you can short plunge. You can short plunge. No, there's another one. What is it? The ah doesn't Megatron shoot the ball to the upper flipper?
00:50:48
Speaker
It does shoot at it. Okay. Tom, big brain Tom. Big brain. He's paying attention. God, this why we have you. This is why we have you here. um I think that's all, like, upper flipper. You put an upper flipper in a game. You put a third. you like i That's my first thing. What feeds it?
00:51:05
Speaker
Otherwise, it' could be it could be terrible. So to see that, yeah yeah because that's cool. i I originally thought Megatron just shot it, like, across that ramp, under that ramp.
00:51:16
Speaker
uh wire farm whatever it is but but the video shows that actually shooting it to the upper flipper as well so it's two points you've seen it you've seen that you've seen it shoot in person what are the how'd it feel how'd feel to that ball shoot out like it felt great I mean, it was it was fun. yeah It was fun hitting the... So the right ramp is fun to hit because it's tough to hit. It's not a gimme.
00:51:41
Speaker
Right? That does look tight and it looks steep. Yes, it is both. And yeah you feel it. If you miss it, you know, you better be on your defense to get it back. But ah no, I mean, that ramp is great. And...
00:51:54
Speaker
Seeing the cannon shot to me was cool. The first time we just laughed our asses off saying how awesome was that? Like there's nice sometimes you see something happen in a game and seeing that combined with the sound and the light show.
00:52:09
Speaker
Like it brought it all together. That when we talk about a moment, as cliche as it is, that felt like that. Now, could that moment get old after 20 times in a row? Just like we're talking about? Yeah, of course. But to me, that right there sold it that if you're going to play this, you almost have to have a premium at that point because he doesn't do that on the pro.
00:52:29
Speaker
That's the thing. But ah no, it's to me, it's really cool. And it kind of shows that Megatron is kind of like the low key star of the show, being able to do as much as he does in there. The right ramp, would you say it's, well, two parts. One, ah do you think it's easier or harder than the right ramp on Foo Fighters?
00:52:50
Speaker
harder to me at first, just cause I haven't played it. I played it a handful of times. I played Foo Fighters a bunch. Okay. Cause I remember, yeah. Foo Fighters. I found the Foo Fighters right ramp faster than I did the Transformers right ramp. That's what you're asking.
00:53:05
Speaker
But this right, but this right ramp is easier than the shadow right ramp. I can't hit that for shit. What? ah That's like my worst right ramp ever, Joel. and What about the right ramp in Avatar?
00:53:17
Speaker
Which one? The ramp. newest one? Yes. The newest Avatar. There's a right ramp that feeds the spinner. I don't hit that either. don't hit that either. That is a hard shot. Jared pointed that out. I can't hit lot of shots in Avatar, Joel. I'm atrocious at I'm curious. Obviously, I don't want that to be a... Do you think the right ramp, if that is the selling No, this fun. What other can we shit on? The right ramp. Here. Let's name off another one. I'm ready.
00:53:45
Speaker
What else? Um... Okay, the Jurassic Park right ramp, that's fun to hit, but that's hard. The stern one. Yeah. Even the... It was the second game, okay? It was the second game. He needed to figure out to design pinball. All right, we got to give him some grace. That's fair. What I'm saying, the right ramp, though, if that is the coolest mech, right? If that's the cool thing. So if my son comes down and I say, hey, dude, you got to see him shoot this cannon.
00:54:10
Speaker
yeah Do you think my son will ever see Megatron shoot his cannon? Will he be able to hit that right ramp? Yeah. Hopefully. Yeah. Okay. I hope. I mean, a blind squirrel finds a nut, Joel. Your son's going to find the right ramp. What I will say, and this is just a side tangent, Pokemon. Pokemon's been in my house now like a month.
00:54:28
Speaker
um i thought I thought that my my kids would just fawn over this game. um they they They don't. They play it every once a while, but it's not they just don't it's not like they're craving it. And and part of it's because um for whatever reason, and I get it, Meowth, that shot's right up the middle. But for whatever reason, like my son struggles to get to Meowth multiball in this game. That that right Team Rocket multiball, the Pikachu multiball, I mean, that's just three shots to the right ramp. But that fan layout is fast and can be brutal.
00:54:59
Speaker
So for my son, who's like, this is his, he should be loving it. I'll tell you right now, of of this lineup, what games get played the most? batman he plays he plays batman a lot because once he get that crane coming out is like the coolest thing like he thinks that's so cool and he just keeps going back to cactus canyon i mean that's like that's what he plays anyways right ramp uh are we are we crapping on any of the right right what other right ramps i don't like led zeppelin right ramp kiss i don't like that one the kiss right ramp was pretty pretty pretty rough. that's That's a challenge one.
00:55:33
Speaker
The Flash Gordon right ramp. F that ramp. Always hit a post and drain right down the middle. Tom, what about you? TNA's right ramp is real hard. I still haven't hit it. so All right ramps suck.
00:55:46
Speaker
All right ramps suck. Why are left ramps easier to hit than right ramps? Because we're right-handed. But I'm not. I don't understand that. You're left-handed?
00:55:56
Speaker
I'm both. I use both hands. Antibodextrous. Speaking of hands, here's another side. Mostly with my left hand. I drink with my left hand. I drive with my left hand. Yeah. I throw a piece with my right hand. He pees with both pee with my left hand. no yeah There you go. There you go. Or is it no hands? I don't know. yeah I'm trying to give you some peace in dude. Definitely no hands.
00:56:19
Speaker
Joel, can you imagine pissing with no hands? What would happen then? That's like mass chaos. It's a little messy. You just pee and sit down, bro. Just... It sure has no hands. out Yeah. Jazz hands. I figured it out. Tuck and you're good to go. All right. Good thing they made urinals.
00:56:33
Speaker
Yeah, good thing we made urinals. I apologize for our female audience. He just puts both hands on the wall. Just boom. Just right there on the wall and just leans. I read all the messages on the wall. Me here at 1030. ah What was... Oh, speaking of hands, um i I am trying to change... Oh, the right right ramp on Ludd Zeppelin.
00:56:56
Speaker
Yeah, okay. Right, yes. It's like 180. No, you're right. Fix that, Ray. God, fix it. The...
00:57:04
Speaker
I'm trying to change my grip, my pinball grip. And the reason why is because as a taller individual, you and I always have been talking about this, haven't you I have not. I have not. Okay. But as a taller individual, an individual, vi individual, yeah I used to always have my middle finger, my middle finger on the button.
00:57:23
Speaker
And I would, I would put my hands in more so that my fingertip was hitting the button. And I was basically resting my body on, on the game. Like I was leaning, i was leaning on the game. But when my hands, if you can see my hands were, it's like my hands, my hands were bent back more like a 90 degree angle. And what I've, what I've realized, injuries, right? Pinjuries. But like, if I play for two hours and I'm leaning like that, yeah I was legit having, you were sore ting I was having soreness and like tingling in my hands. Will you guys quit moving your hands? like it was i hear you joel yes this is for you tom not for you you were putting uh it's a it was a pinjury it was a problem there's another can't did you feel it in your uh not just your wrist but in your elbows too yeah it was like this is and what's funny is the next day at work you know or like i'm sitting on my desk and i was like why am i like why why do i feel this and then i'm like i'm hurting myself playing pinball so
00:58:23
Speaker
And I realized that don't lean on the game. So I'm like trying to completely change. So I've, I, I'm Tim Sexton actually did a ah video and it's like, you're supposed to you're supposed to use two fingers.
00:58:35
Speaker
ah Do you guys, do you guys hit the button with one finger or two fingers? It depends. Well, obviously twice yeah per side.
00:58:46
Speaker
Yeah. It depends what you're doing in the game. yeah Go ahead, Tom. I usually do two, i I think, now, but I've caught myself doing, like, index and metal, so it i I don't know. i I'm old.
00:59:02
Speaker
I don't know what doing. Travis, just flat hands yeah slap. yeah I just think about the flipper moving and it moves. I don't think about it unless somebody brings it up. a I'm just right in triple dream. I'm like, I don't want leave a YouTube. Let us know. Cause I'm what I'm, what I tried to do is I tried to shift my fingers down more. That's instead of my wrist like this, I'm trying to keep it more straight and I'm trying not to lean on the game.
00:59:26
Speaker
So I'm, I'm trying to hit, have the button be, be, I don't know, not on the the fleshy part of my tip of my finger, but more in the middle. What do you think Abe would tell you to That's the question. What would Abe tell you to do?
00:59:39
Speaker
Is it in the video, Tom? You've seen it? it's i mean I think it is. that should be I don't know. I need to watch this. I would think it would be. yeah There you go. There's a plug. I need to watch. yeah i made some videos I need to watch the video. Sorry, I haven't seen it yet.
00:59:56
Speaker
I need to see. I don't know. I'm curious. but it is It is funny to me, changing my stance. like affects my ability. I was, i felt like I could nudge more because I was already leaning on the game, but now it's like, it's better. It's better. I feel a little more control. I watched Elwin play Winchester when we were at pinball at the beach. Like he doesn't lean on the game at all. Like it's this like finesse that he has. He's very relaxed. Yeah.
01:00:21
Speaker
Very. Yeah. But don't need to watch. I need to, I'm just messing around trying to find the right thing. Don't hurt yourself. Don't hurt yourself playing pinball. yeah That's a good idea, Joel.
01:00:32
Speaker
Okay, so we were talking about Transformers. We were talking about the shots. We like the shots. We did talk about the code a little bit. What I can say about the code, what I do like that Gieski put in the game, there are five main modes, but she has levels to the modes. There are three levels to the modes, and it's based on whether or not you've energized the Energon cube beforehand. So you can select what level you want to play the mode. And she said the modes...
01:00:58
Speaker
They're very different experiences based on the way you play the modes. if you beat two modes, I think it's beat, it lights mini wizard mode.
01:01:11
Speaker
And the mini wizard mode is based on the two modes that you played. So there's perks that you get. So the mini wizard mode, it just keeps spitting balls out. It's like you're battling Megatron and certain shots damage him and certain shots damage you.
01:01:28
Speaker
But like one of the modes, if you play this mode, that means every time you drain, that doesn't hurt your health. But there's other, so it's like every mode has a perk. So it's like, I hear that I'm like, that's awesome. The fact, yeah I only have five modes, but the modes change based on the difficulty I select. So risk reward. I got variety in the game.
01:01:48
Speaker
I don't have 35 modes like a JJP game. i have five modes, but they they're they're varied. And then the the the combination of modes that I pick affects the reward I get for beating two modes.
01:02:03
Speaker
Like, That sounds really cool. Travis, you've played it. yeah Have you experienced that? Yep. It was all good. It was fun. I think that that part's cool. I think the fact that you alluded to making the modes, there's different ways to play it.
01:02:18
Speaker
So difficulty level. So yeah, On top of that, you have to earn that, right? You can't you don't just go directly into a yeah mode or a mission or whatever they were calling it and just automatically get to choose to play the hardest version of it. You have to do stuff on the play field in order to even qualify that option.
01:02:37
Speaker
So that's what's cool. You're already doing stuff. So that's great because if you're a novice, you don't care. If you're an advanced player, that's cool because it makes you do advanced player things and you have to start thinking ahead of time.
01:02:49
Speaker
And then on top of that, there's another added layer to this that if you choose to not do the hard thing, then you get what's, if you beat that mission, you get what's called cosmic rust. I'm pretty sure this is how it works. And that cosmic rust basically buffs the scoring to your next mode. Like it'll make it worth more. So you could choose not to energize and just hold it back and then just keep building, building, building.
01:03:14
Speaker
But I don't know exactly how that works in terms of points or might be getting that over. play easier now to boost the harder mode later. Right. Yeah. Oh, wow. Yep. I'm pretty sure it's something to that extent. Let me look, I got a picture up. Let me look, let me look.
01:03:30
Speaker
Um, Oh, it's on the rule card. It literally says on the very bottom cosmic rust beating a non-energized mission will infect the next mission with cosmic rust. Rust emissions are harder, but more valuable.
01:03:44
Speaker
That's pretty cool. Like that's, that's the variety. Now I will say that, um, Sometimes when you add variety into a pinball game, that gives you perks. So X-Men would be an example. You beat certain modes in X-Men, you get a perk. That it's like, if the perks aren't balanced, then there usually ends up being one path that that you always take.
01:04:06
Speaker
And that's... So yeah it's it's a challenge's challenge. It's challenge on a designer to find... The balance, because you want like, obviously I assume Geeski wants to see Tom's streaming tournament oh a year from now.
01:04:18
Speaker
And she wants to see all four players play Transformers differently because then there then it shows that we have a balanced game. And it's not like, oh no, everybody does whatever. I don't know the names and the modes, but it's like everybody everybody's going to pick a Solar Needle Rusted.
01:04:37
Speaker
And that's the only way to play. We'll see what happens at the Expo tournament. Yeah, I think it's i don I'm excited. I'm excited for that. um A game. So I've been streaming. I streamed Batman 66 and I've really had a lot of fun with that game.
01:04:52
Speaker
And that game has four very easy modes to get into the four villains. Right. um But what I do like about that is you can keep playing or you cash out, you cash out, and you move on or you keep playing.
01:05:02
Speaker
And on top of that, when you play them again, it's a totally different version of the... Like, the modes are easy to get into. There's only four of them, but they feel varied based on how you want to play it.
01:05:13
Speaker
I know Dune is another game that does that. You hit your shots. so You want to cash
Comparison of Pinball Game Modes
01:05:17
Speaker
out? No. You want to go deeper? Let's go. Like, i Travis, I know, preaches staged modes. He's a big fan of that.
01:05:26
Speaker
You know, let the novice or let the people that just want to go for progression, let them let them dip out of the mode. But give me more. Give me a challenge. Give me variety in that. i I'm coming around, man. I'm coming around to that really being, um standing out on on what makes, gives a game replayability.
01:05:46
Speaker
um Now there's a balance there because one of one of the challenges I'm having now that i've I was gushing over Batman 66 the first week I had it, but the more I play it now, now I realize with the TV modes, some of them are far superior than other TV modes.
01:06:02
Speaker
do yeah che do know Do you know about the, if you complete one of each of the seasons, you get a special like wizard? Yeah, that's my go-to. So what he's saying, there's three seasons. If you beat all three three if you beat three different seasons, many ah minor villains, you get to a multi-ball and you get a pick which one you play. There's a holy, it's like holy mackerel molly ball or something where every shot it's, it's Robin saying a different, like whatever, holy garbanzo bean Batman. Like it's just, it's all like, that's so great. I love humor. And, but anyways, what I've realized though with the minor villains is sure. Lyman put, there's like 10 in the game, but I might, I find myself playing the same three. Like I'm, I'm always playing Mr. Freeze, pause those timers. And then I play bookworm to make sure that the, that it's still there. If I drain,
01:06:52
Speaker
And then I just need one for season three. And I usually go Eggman or Tut. So it's like, okay, that's not, it's not as balanced. to cause me to want to play other ones. And now I'm finding like, I don't even want to play a villain until I've gotten the minor villains started because it'll help me with other things. So it's like, but I don't want to fall into only playing the game one way. So I'm like challenging myself to like, if TV's modes lit, go for it, but don't purposely try to light it. Like just try to play the game. So you got to have fun. You got to fun with your but I love that. I love the variety there.
01:07:22
Speaker
And that's, I'm not trying to crap on... like I love that, but like Pokemon, i really I haven't really touched it because right now there is no variety in the game. I know it's very early on in the code, but it's just... You know you got four modes to play and then you play Charizard. That's all there is. That's all there is, and there's no advantages to playing them in different orders. or any It's just... Four modes to play Charizard. I would love to, a year from now, be raving about how awesome Pokemon is. It's just right now we're kind of...
01:07:52
Speaker
kind holding out. Um, do you miss it, Tom? You sold it. No, yeah um, hold out hope. I'm, I'm holding, I'm holding strong with, uh, X-Men.
01:08:04
Speaker
I'm holding strong. I'm holding strong that it, that it's going to finish strong, but, uh, I'm, I'm holding. It's been, I feel like I've been holding a while. Well, you got, you just, you got to be careful because once you start playing Lyman games and you add that into the rotation,
01:08:20
Speaker
You're going to, you're going to judge everything off of that. I think you start experiencing that. And so that's like, that's the most superior form of rules and code so far.
01:08:32
Speaker
What Lyman's done. Now there's people that are catching up. I think obviously the next in line, Elwin, and the way that you know Rick does things with him, Nagel, it's amazing what they can do too. So you have so many people that raise the bar, but then you see the influence that's out there. like I got to give credit where credit's due to our IFPA overlord. He took stuff, Josh Sharp, from what he learned with Lyman, and he made Pulp Fiction really stand out from a rules perspective.
01:09:01
Speaker
yeah So it's this it's stuff like that that kind of you try to create as much nuance as you possibly can with what you're given. Cause obviously certain play fields will allow you to do a little bit extra. Certain themes will allow you to to do a little bit extra.
01:09:16
Speaker
And you know, I, I don't know if they could do that with Pokemon. I have no idea how the license works or if they have a say over much with the code or whatever. I have no idea, but it's, I think it's so unique though. If you do have a dream theme and you happen to get,
01:09:30
Speaker
a rule set that is so fleshed out that it just makes it an insanely fun to keep coming back to. Right. So people that into Batman 66 got that people that are into Godzilla got that. If you're into Jurassic park, you definitely got that.
01:09:44
Speaker
If you're into star Wars, you got that with the newest game with a Raymond on it. You know, people start, I've started raving about that code. So there's just, there's a lot of unique things that can be done.
01:09:55
Speaker
But I do think Joel, that one of the best things about rules in general is just if you can choose to make it a little bit more difficult. And if you could choose to have a level two to it, or if you could play through something skillfully and keep the risk reward up. Like I love that nuance. that I love thinking I could piece together a game that doesn't have to look the same every single time. It's where I could choose different options. Choose your adventure. Yeah. Yeah. yeah And I, yeah, I mean, that's been fun.
01:10:26
Speaker
Well, it's fun. It's fun. I know you guys give me a hard time with my level of play and I get it compared to you guys. It's a lot lower. But when I stream with my brother, like his level will play is totally different than mine. And it's fun to stream a game and see games that I can take it one direction and he can take it in a total different direction and we can both have a great time. Like, I love that. I love that variety.
01:10:48
Speaker
Um, And then there's other games. Iron Man was another game that I streamed ah since the last time we we recorded. Where that game really doesn't have many directions to go.
01:11:00
Speaker
But yet, it and it's brutal.
Iron Man Pinball - Strategies & Tournament Suitability
01:11:02
Speaker
And it's it's simple to know what, like, okay, this just do it. Just do the thing. and And Jared was right there with me. He was having a blast. We were getting our butt kicked, but yet...
01:11:13
Speaker
everyone All of a sudden it's like, holy cow, i've done I've done three of the five things. Like, I just focus, like just be smart. I can get, oh, I got four the five. Like, I'm one away and then this is lit. Or, okay, I i failed. Everything's.
01:11:27
Speaker
So, Iron Man, you have to do five main tasks within one ball. And if you don't do it, then you lose them. But there's the jeric there's the is it Jericho, which is the Mark, Mark one, Mark two, the Mark. Those stay lit.
01:11:40
Speaker
throughout it uh throughout the game and so i think if you get all the way to mark six it's then you light jericho so it's like okay you got the single ball thing you're focusing on up i failed well i still have the long-term goal so let's pivot focus on that boom and it's just i i really like that the simplicity of it but also i that was a fun balanced game even though it it's brutal like And that's another lineman game, right? I mean, he made something special there. And I and i now understand why so many people love Iron you still Iron Man, Tom?
01:12:13
Speaker
I don't, but i so I still enjoy the game. Is it a good tournament game? Oh, it's a phenomenal tournament game. what's the ah You step up on Iron Man. like what's your what What are you trying to do? What's your goal?
01:12:27
Speaker
Depends on how the game's set up. Okay. So if it's completely brutal and I can hit the ramps, im this is what I did at Yagpen. I just hit the ramps all day and kept playing bogey.
01:12:40
Speaker
bogie So bogey's alternating ramps, and then once you get far enough, then it starts the bogey mode and you just alternate ramps. ye That's literally... you That game, yeah, it had lightning flippers and yellow rubbers, but man, those flippers, like it they just felt great. and like I was just like, I could hit these ramps. there It was like butter.
01:13:01
Speaker
Like butter. That's awesome. That's awesome. But that's, I mean, but okay, that it's if that's if it's brutal. if it's If it's set up in a reasonable manner. Then I'm i'm still going to play bogey, but i'll probably play I'll probably play monger and try to at least get to Jericho. If not, try to get all five things like you talking about in one ball.
01:13:29
Speaker
But like there's a lot of risk in some of those things. Well, the magnets, the ah the targets to start your war machine, like that can be brutal too. And yeah, whiplash. Drones. Whiplash is like, oh, I just got to hit these two targets with a big ass magnet in front of it that throws the ball down the outlet, you know?
01:13:50
Speaker
Yep. So, but that's, just that's kind of the fun of it, you know, like, yeah. And manga seems easy as long as you can avoid the magnet, you know? So,
Classic Rules in Modern Pinball
01:14:01
Speaker
yeah. I honestly would love to see somebody bring that rule back to modern pinball to where it's,
01:14:07
Speaker
essentially do like five things, right? But you, in order to get to a wizard mode, but you gotta do all five things in the same ball. So you have to really think it through your strategy to set it up and what I'd be curious to see that brought back and then still have modes on top of it, still have other things, not just like a ramps mode. Right, right. That's just part of a background skill tree.
01:14:33
Speaker
has to be the right game, right? Right game, right layout. That's what it is. Yeah. I mean, what I would, yeah, I think it it could be used with any theme pretty much. I think that's part of the fun, right? It's pulling a rule that's been proven to be fun in pinball. And then you take the theme yeah and you pull that into the pinball. I think it could be done. I think the three of us could figure it out. I think anybody could figure it out because it's just fun thinking of
Exploration of Transformers Pinball Features
01:14:58
Speaker
cool shit like that. What about, uh,
01:15:01
Speaker
Well, two parts. One would be, what if Godzilla was, ah when you drain, you have to go to a new city. Like, you have to. So that would that would make you do all the city things in one ball.
01:15:15
Speaker
Do you think that would be... an improvement possibly. don't necessarily because, yeah because the layouts are a longer player, whereas something like Iron Man's not. So that's probably what Tom was kind of referring to as well. It's, I mean, it depends.
01:15:30
Speaker
lot of the things that you do with rules depends on the layout itself. I think it'd be cool. It'd be interesting. I mean, if you could set the game to hard just to try it out yourself, you know, that would be fun. It's like the, it's like the game stars, you know, like you, you want to, you know,
01:15:46
Speaker
You can rip the spinner all day, but if you get the the five stars and it's set to 100K for the special, it's fun trying to go for that.
01:15:58
Speaker
yeah so Joel, you don't know what I'm talking about. so I don't. I don't know stars. It doesn't have a screen. Zach, get Joel a stars. got play this I've never streamed it. Yeah.
01:16:12
Speaker
Oh, I had something. It was gone. You said stars. And that was, oh, one ball. The very first pinball machine I had, technically the first working one, the first pinball machine I ever had was a Data East secret service. And it was completely dead. It was like, like it looked like it fell off the back of a truck.
01:16:28
Speaker
So I was doing all this hardware repair, trying to fix it. and And I finally was like, man, this is a lot of work to not be able to play a game. So I ended up selling it as a project. And shortly thereafter, I bought Avatar, Stern's Avatar, the original one.
01:16:45
Speaker
And I had that for a while. But what I did not like about Avatar. Yeah, what I did not like about Avatar was to get to the wizard mode, you had to do everything within one ball. And that was, now correct me if I'm wrong, maybe I'm just, I was super new. Hmm.
01:17:00
Speaker
Do you have to do everything in one ball? it It turns off. You had to do it all within one ball. and that's I didn't think there was any objective that you would work towards outside of that.
01:17:11
Speaker
So what pissed me off was like, I have a three ball game, but it really feels like a one ball game. And I mean, please, I was hoping you guys with your endless expertise. tim Was I just playing it wrong?
01:17:22
Speaker
Or is there, or did Lyman, because Lyman was Avatar, wasn't he? mean I think it was a combo with like him and Lonnie. We need like um Ron Halleck here.
01:17:33
Speaker
He would or Dennis Creasel. They would know. They would know they would know right off the they just that encyclopedic. um I don't know. but like we Travis is looking that up to correct me. We the tournament world called that game link multiple.
01:17:49
Speaker
So you just do one thing the all time. pray Link and then get your play field multiplier. Just start ripping supers. Super. Okay. And then do it again again. no Okay, so we've... used Transformers, we've... I mean, we've gone 18 directions here. Transformers, we like the layout. We're excited about the layout. We like the code. We like what we're seeing with the code. One thing that's very clear about this game is this code is way more fleshed out than the last handful of games that Stern's made. So ah we would love for that to be the norm.
01:18:19
Speaker
Unfortunately, it's not. Yeah. I wish this game would have came out. I know it's going to be at a show, you know, over in ah Washington, I think. the beginning of June or somewhere over there. I just wish this would have been the type of game that would have benefited greatly to coming out right before Expo or right before Texas Pinball Festival because the code is so good yeah that you'd want max amount of people coming in and realizing that. I think that that's kind of, that's kind of where this game is going to go. People are going to play it and start realizing more and more. It's just obviously, you know, you can't based off video, you know, it's,
01:18:53
Speaker
You're going to be focused on more negative than you are positive regardless. but I totally understand. ah The mechs. The mechs, sure, we focused a lot on Optimus. I get it. Megatron, I think that mech looks pretty sweet. And the fact that it shoots multiple places, that's awesome. One thing we have not talked about, though, is Soundwave.
01:19:12
Speaker
Soundwave mech. Yep. Pretty legit. Pretty legit. Now, I'm curious, ah Travis, when that ball, when they um when the balls shoot out of his chest, there is on the left side, there's a sling.
01:19:26
Speaker
There's another sling on the left side. but So on the left side, you have a an additional sling. On the right side, you have a pop bumper. Do we have, is this, and then the Soundwave mech shoots the balls out. It's a horizontal shot.
01:19:39
Speaker
Is there a lot of horizontal in this game? Like a lot of horizontal movement? Oh, yeah. I mean, there's that fun or is that terrifying? Both, which makes it fun. The outlanes, are the outlanes hungry? Are they just... Because that's that horizontal movement, just gobbling it up Well, well i say no in the sense that... I mean, the if the outlanes are closed in the middle, like they're either all the way down or they're in the middle, like most tournament players are going to be able to stay alive as long as as long as they want, pretty much. But if the outlanes are opened up all the way, then yeah, horizontal would be a lot more scary. I think...
01:20:15
Speaker
With this, it's just fun because you have so much to do, not just like a pop bumper in the lower right-hand side that we've seen used you know previously in several other games, but there's also a target that's right under Soundwave or like a combo jackpot shot or I forget what it is, combo or cassette comcassette combo. Cassette combo. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
01:20:33
Speaker
So, I mean, that's fun right there. And of course we talked about earlier with the upper right flipper where it goes with the shadow type shot, Indy 500 or hitting a loop into like a wave ramp 180 type shot. So, I mean,
01:20:47
Speaker
To me, it gives you plenty to do horizontally that doesn't feel boring. It feels like that you have to hit your shots in order to progress. You have to hit shots in some modes correctly or, you know, you're hitting it for Megatron or whoever else you could be hitting it for.
01:21:03
Speaker
So... What about the three drop targets? Obviously, they block the Megatron shot. They're freaking awesome. But do they block the center shot and the right ramp as well or not as much? Slightly. Slightly, okay. Not as You still got to hit your shots. So it's not as egregious as putting, which I go back and forth. Sometimes like the idea of drop targets in front of a ramp. Other times I'm just like, okay, this is the dumbest thing ever. Like I just have a love-hate with it.
01:21:32
Speaker
But I think if it's implemented right, it's just fine. So something like this, I don't mind because it's obviously blocking Megatron the entrance there, but it does make that right ramp even extra challenging to be begin with. So that's cool. But I do like the idea of having a game fight back a little bit too, like having drop targets in unique spots. That's not in, it's challenging, but it's not infuriating. It's not like the Scolari brothers on Ghostbusters where they pop up, you get air balls everywhere or anything like that. Like this is, this actually feels fun.
01:22:03
Speaker
um Tom, you're you're most versed in the LE buying, you know. um The dual-colored powder coating.
01:22:13
Speaker
Do you likey? Do you not like it? The red on the left, the purple the right? It's okay. um yeah I remember having it on the original. Okay.
01:22:27
Speaker
So... I mean, it's, yeah it's fine. yeah It's fine. um i okay I guess, I guess I understand why they're doing it because like one half is Autobots, the other half is Decepticons. So it makes, it makes sense.
01:22:50
Speaker
But yeah, I guess it doesn't really bother me. Okay. I i mean, yeah if it bothered me, I wouldn't buy the l LE, I guess.
01:23:05
Speaker
Uh, there was, there was, oh wait, you did. i did. You did. Thompson. Thompson. don't want to glaze over that. we got we got him. Um, you have been, ah kind of, ah ah like the pro guy you've been, you know, what was the last L.E. you bought? Wasn't it Jaws? It was Jaws.
01:23:28
Speaker
Yeah, so you had bought a Pokemon Pro. They suckered me. Come and gone. They suckered me, Joel. So Star Wars is a pro, too? Yeah. So your little AT-AT doesn't go up and down?
01:23:39
Speaker
At-at? No. Didn't need it. And you can play? you can You can have fun without that? I needed Megatrend to shoot the ball. Okay. And King Kong, you scared a gong. you like You like pro. So that's pro D&D. Didn't you buy the pro for that, too?
01:23:55
Speaker
For D&D? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, when I had it, yeah, i had a pro. King Kong, pro. Pro, wick, pro. I don't even know. Should we not even... is this a new... He's back. Tom is back. He's back.
01:24:12
Speaker
With Transformers. We're back. What was it? What was it, we're doing is it Tom? You had to have Megatron shoot the ball? What was it? It was at the Expression Lights.
01:24:25
Speaker
The foil cabinet. e e it looks pretty sick in person and I'm usually not big on that it looks sick person let me tell you foil cabinets look way better My X-Men LE right here.
01:24:41
Speaker
It's got it. It's a I, it's a, once you, once you dabble, once you, once you get the LE in your house, all of a sudden, i mean this is straight up first world problems, but like, like said, back glass looks, looks real. Do you remember when we went to the media day for WIC and I was just like, I was just drooling over the wick LE art.
01:25:04
Speaker
Like i was just like, oh my God, that looks so good. Which the side art, a lot of it gets hidden, you know, when it's in a row, side art doesn't, but that back glass, I will say this is, there's a, um, what's the guy's name? He's over in the Netherlands.
01:25:19
Speaker
There's a guy that does, ah he does a mirrored back glasses. And so one of my local friends was like, Hey, we can save on shipping if we get more than one. So I actually got the Brian Allen version of this cactus Canyon in a mirrored back glass. So I have no idea. It might be a few months before I get it. No idea. But I was like, because X-Men's right here with a mirrored back glass, it's like, I got like, it it bothers me, but it
Art & Licensing in Transformers Pinball
01:25:46
Speaker
stands out. So yes, for the people that dabble, but I, uh, that, that once you get an LE, it's like, it's like crack. Um,
01:25:53
Speaker
Oh, and then Dune. When Dune shows up, I'll be getting the mirrored back last. It's a whole new... It's a new problem. but um I'm proud of you, Tom. i'm Welcome back. Welcome back to... ah but i So that was it. that was like It was the art that told couldn't let the viewers down. so yeah yes yeah ah The art on this. We haven't talked... to I think the art's pretty phenomenal. They have not said clearly who the artists are.
01:26:18
Speaker
They said... ah you know it sounds like Zombie Eddie... managed it but i'm I'm curious if this is one of those situations where Hasbro actually did a lot of the art and Zombie Yeti gave him some direction you know well this is what's going to work with pinball or what I don't know but they never they never said who did the art with that said though I think the art looks pretty good I don't have any complaints um Tom were you a fan of this show did you watch this
01:26:51
Speaker
A little bit. i I wasn't like a huge fan. ah I didn't collect Transformers or anything like that, but I would um would watch it. mean i wasn' you but it it wasn't like ah my ah The the show i really like growing up with thundercats Oh.
01:27:11
Speaker
So. Maybe one day. Maybe. I just assumed you just sat around and listened to Rush. That's all you did. That was part of it. that's Okay, so the art is great. um The LCD screen. One one thing that that really excites me about this is it's very clear. I think they said they got... It's like the first 70 episodes of the show they have access to.
01:27:31
Speaker
um They also... when the sound, when the clips are playing, the sounds are also playing. Like they got the sound clips. So none of this weird, the clips are singing or they got voice actors. Like they got, they got it. They got the actual clips with the actual audio in the game.
01:27:50
Speaker
And then they got access to the movie, um which is going to be its own unique thing. But then it also looks like they were given permission to like, put pinball into the clips. So there are times where it's it looks like it's a clip, but then we've obviously put art, I say we, but like Stern has put art over it.
01:28:11
Speaker
so So the fact that Hasbro was cool to like, yeah, like use the clip, but then put your thing in it. So it fits within the world. So there's actually, so what's interesting about it, ave Stern has been able to do art to where they make it look just like the cartoon.
01:28:29
Speaker
Yeah. With the grain, everything or whatever, whatever artistic vibe that is to where it's not upscaled or anything like that. It's literally almost seems like it's been downscaled to match up with what the original clips are. So yeah I did notice some people weren't able to tell the difference if it was a clip from the show or a clip there. But I mean, you'll start to realize which ones are which, but it's pretty interesting though, that they were able to get it as close that they did. i think I, for somebody that doesn't like the LCD screen too much, I can appreciate that attention to the detail. I think it's real cool. And, and part of this feels like, well, they had a lot more time. They were able to get further in the game. So a lot of this stands out right at the get go, but obviously the direction it's going is, is amazing.
01:29:14
Speaker
And then the audio side of it to get two voice actors from the original show doing call outs. It's kind of a... I mean, let's be honest. If Optimus Prime moved, what would be what would people complain about?
01:29:29
Speaker
Like, what is there to complain about this game? Besides that. Like, I just think it's... I just think that's pretty amazing. And so that's why i just, i would encourage people. i There's some, yeah i don't know.
01:29:43
Speaker
There's some people that have already discredited this game because of Optimus. And I just, I think that's a shame because there's lot here that excites I bet you half of them, once they play it, will change their minds. Will change their minds, yeah. Kind like Jaws.
01:29:59
Speaker
yeah Well, I'm telling you this, I don't know how much this game will break out, but I think once people start playing out on location, you're going to see the tune change like very, very quickly, I think. And now, of course, there's to some holdovers that they're just simply never going to play it because they don't see ah a thing fold up and look like a pickup truck or a diesel truck or whatever. But, you know, it is what it is. i just think people that are...
01:30:24
Speaker
Getting past their first impression and they're ready to have their second impression once they get a hands-on com impression with it, then cool. I think we're going to see a lot of people change their tune just based off that alone.
01:30:37
Speaker
Yeah. Well, I think ah all three of us have talked enough about Transformers to cash our checks, right? You know, that we've shielded hard enough. ah I'm excited for this game. I'm excited for this game. There's no
Anticipation for Upcoming Pinball Events
01:30:52
Speaker
doubt about that. and email forward to Email for my address, please.
01:30:57
Speaker
You haven't got your check yet? You haven't got yours They may be sending it to the old address. don't know. I'm excited. I'm excited for this. And obviously we're going to see a lot more of that in the, in the future. Joel, you know what else I'm excited about?
01:31:12
Speaker
Please tell me. Tom streaming. If that's all I'm excited about. World. He's got worlds coming up. And Whopper Chopper. The week before.
01:31:23
Speaker
Sick. If people are at this point in the podcast and you somehow skip the first 10 minutes, give, give some, give Tom a sub on Foxy's. He needs 20 more. He needs 20 more. 20 more and you kiss Joel? Is that what you said? By the end of May. It's got to be by the end of May. Not the kiss, the subs. The kiss comes at Expo. The kiss comes at Expo. I'm not driving to Joel's.
01:31:50
Speaker
Tom, where is Worlds? It's at District 82 Pinball in De Pere, Wisconsin. Nice. And how many people are sleeping at your house? A few. there might There might be a world champion from Italy staying over for a little bit. Oh, that's pretty cool.
01:32:07
Speaker
Yeah. That's pretty cool. That's awesome, dude. Yeah. You can tune Foxy's Pinball. Feel free to watch it. What date is that? what what When is that? ah ah Well, the Whopper Chapper is May 28th through the 31st, and then therere the Worlds is June 5th through the 7th.
01:32:27
Speaker
And don't forget that awesome cup. Yes. The Epstein Cup. Cup. Joel? You know joe the Epstein Cup? That's the one where they have a, what is it? It's like they have the countries compete.
01:32:42
Speaker
Yeah. The Epstein Cup. Yeah. Yeah. epstein It's awesome. The, we have, yeah, it's the team Europe and europe team. views us app And apparently team Escher this year.
01:32:54
Speaker
Yeah. ye At trader. He's over there now. And then, um, yeah, but we got team USA. So go team USA. We'll steal one of theirs. One of these days. We do need to give a shout out to ah good old Neil Graf. He crushed it at Yegpin.
01:33:10
Speaker
He did well. Just crushed it at Yegpin. So that's got to be a proud Papa moment to see him up there. For sure. ah So you have like fully accepted at this point that he's he's better. I knew that like three years ago. Okay, just try. Them reflexes, man. I still try though.
01:33:33
Speaker
That's awesome. Please, keep trying. Never give up. Never give up, yeah. What else do we have?
01:33:41
Speaker
Winchester New Code. Have you touched it at all, Tom? Are you still loving that game? yeah Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, the New Code's good. That's great.
01:33:52
Speaker
And there's plenty more We'll stream out one of these days. Promise. Sick. On Fox News. On Twitch. Batman 66. So what else do I have to say about that? the I don't understand it, but the right ramp on that game, like the ball always makes it up.
01:34:12
Speaker
Like it I just even even if I just at least on this game for whatever it like whatever the pitches of that ramp. every time I think I might have not have hit that clean enough or there's enough power to make that ball. It just, it always makes it up. Like I just, it's like, it's, it's very nice. And I like it's the fans in the game that push the ball.
01:34:34
Speaker
That's right. yeah they have i just I'm really enjoying that game. I'm really enjoying that game. The carousel is very cool. And it just what continues to amaze me with that game is it was the first Spike game. It's like, how did they... They started so strong. I know right out the gate. I know right out the gate that game was awful.
01:34:50
Speaker
It took a long time to get where it is now. But I just feel like Lyman really set the bar. there was It was kind of crazy when Batman 66 came out. There was...
01:35:02
Speaker
People that were happy, but then people that just absolutely shit on the game too, because they had it. I think wasn't it Tom for the super LEs to where people had to send in video or something like that about it. Right. I remember they, I remember they had it at expo, but it was like, like you could only look at it. Yeah. You couldn't touch it. You couldn't touch it.
01:35:27
Speaker
You could just stare at it. I remember that. 80 units? I think that's what I'm reading. trying There was 80 Super LEs. There was 200 something LEs. There really weren't. I'm becoming a snob, but I want that mirrored back glass. Come to find out there was no mirrored back glass for any of the models. None of the models of Batman 66 have mirrored back glass. I remember they had the black powder coating with like the sparkle. yeah And then they had a pretty cool topper.
01:35:58
Speaker
like Very cool. Kind of cool. The Batmobile topper was exclusive to the Super LE or the LEs. So there's not many of those out there. And ah they made a lot of the premiums. There's there's plenty of those. But um I will tell you, this is the first time in my pinball collecting career that I've been hesitant to buy a game.
01:36:19
Speaker
Because of fear that they're going to make a newer game. They're going to make a newer model. This game's been out a long time. And with Stern making anniversary editions of certain games, there's that little bit of me that's like, if they brought that game into Spike 3, you had Expression Lights, you had the bigger screen,
01:36:41
Speaker
Just take the game. Put the game in. just take You don't have to adjust anything. Put the game in. it Just take the play field and give me big screen. Give me expression lights. Don't touch the code. like I'm happy. That's fine.
01:36:55
Speaker
Now, we have one problem, though. oh Who's going to do the art? Because Christopher Franchi doesn't work with Stern anymore. So... just leave just do the same art. Can they? Can they do that? I have idea. don't know how contracts work. Zero idea.
01:37:11
Speaker
I would love for them to not... To use the same. Like, just that art. That's an amazing game. But there is that pit bit of me that, like, the last thing I want to do is buy that... And then six months later, Stern announces, hey, guess what? are you So just to be clear, are you saying you don't want to buy it because you think they'll redo the art?
01:37:32
Speaker
You think the art's going to be better? Is that what you're saying? There's they would redo the game. As in they would, like if I, I don't want to pay over premium price for that. Franchi would be all over you if that's what you're about to say. No, no. I thought that's what you were saying at first. Okay, okay. What I'm saying, I would be like the guy that bought Metallica and then six months later, Metallica remake comes out.
01:37:51
Speaker
Gotcha. So it's just more about the LCD and possibly, yeah well, you said you don't want the rules touched. Are you afraid of updated rules? what would they what What needs updated in that game?
01:38:03
Speaker
I mean, maybe. I mean, we did talk. about him Could you? Kind of a point. It's just more or less just... I guarantee it's probably not necessarily updating rules, but more or less just cleaning up.
01:38:14
Speaker
Okay. Rough edges of the code, polish, stuff like that. Maybe. Ray did that with... Yeah. Yeah, Ray did it with Metallica. If he could tweak. And it worked just fine.
Reflections on Pinball Rankings & Remakes
01:38:22
Speaker
Yep. I mean, I did say with the minor builds. Really good.
01:38:25
Speaker
you know with the minor villains maybe could you balance those so i mean are you saying we don't need ray maybe that's what you're saying i don't need i don't you know didn't he say that like couple podcasts ago he did yeah i thought he was taking shots at franchi it turns out he's taking shots at ray this whole time dude i will continue to take i mean i give credit when credit's due he's made he's ray day's done some good stuff ray's been streaming a lot too Oh, yeah. He's streaming on Mondays.
01:38:52
Speaker
Yeah, he's streaming at the ah Pinball Capital. He's trying to take my job. He's going to start streaming. Radio Pinball?
01:39:04
Speaker
Something like that? Yeah. Ray Day Pinball. Yeah. No, I like Ray. He's all right. um I don't know. i just But I will say that is a weird feeling to feel like I am hesitant to buy a game out of fear that they might make a newer game. So i get I'm getting that tiny bit of a taste of what the collectors have when a...
01:39:25
Speaker
like when a Jurassic park newer edition comes out or a jaws anniversary comes into it. It's like, Oh, well, or Elvira, another edition of, bla it's like, ah, I wasn't, I don't know. Were you tom you own Metallica, right? Were you upset when the remake came out?
01:39:40
Speaker
And cause now you to actually sold the game before the remake came out out of fear of the remake. Uh, that was part of it, but part of that, but I, I didn't really plan on buying the remake to be honest. Um,
01:39:56
Speaker
I kind of just had my fella Metallica and I was like, um I'm good. You heard Ray was on code. No, I just, better yeah, just, I just was like, I saw the trailer and I was like, damn, like, no, it's, it's all They really hit it out of the park. might want to get one of these.
01:40:15
Speaker
It's really, it's very good. It's very good. Um, I have other questions if we want to keep going. You know, if you want to keep, we can keep talking. What's your question, Joel? What do you got? and So what it is.
01:40:31
Speaker
ah Well, one thing, one thing we played this and I'm i'm curious this, I'm kind of putting you on the spot, but um one of the games we played was, we played this last week on the stream was top 10 games. Okay. Oh, it's changed. So this is since Wednesday, the top 10 Pinside's top 10.
01:40:51
Speaker
Which two games would you take out of the top 10? And then what would you replace them with? That was the game. So the current top 10, the current top 10 is Godzilla, Harry Potter, Jaws, Jurassic Park, Medieval Madness, Attack from Mars, Evil Dead, Dune, Metallica Remastered, Monster Bash.
01:41:11
Speaker
Those are the current top 10. So which two would you take out and what would you replace them with? So this is where we started talking about John Wick because at the time Elvira was in this list. um Yeah, it was in number one. Yeah, it was because the Bloodsuckers edition shot it up. Elvira is now number 13.
01:41:35
Speaker
So like Mike Castleman with Pinballers, he said, I forget what he took out. He took out Monster Bash and Medieval Madness and he replaced it with King Kong and John Wick.
01:41:48
Speaker
That's fair. he's He thinks King Kong might be Elwin's best game. I don't think I'd put Wick in the top 10, but King Kong's a good good pick.
01:42:04
Speaker
so I would probably... Okay, go ahead. Well, I was going to say, when I did this on Wednesday, I took out Elvira, and I took out Medieval Madness, and And I brought in Metallica Remastered.
01:42:16
Speaker
it was It was actually 11 the time. And then I brought in, put Batman 66. I was like, if I'm going to take a Lyman game out with Elvira, I'm going to put Batman 66 in. I already know what I'm doing here.
01:42:28
Speaker
Let's do it, Tom. Okay. What are we doing? Rush 10 times. ye We're getting rid of medieval madness. We're putting Rush in. So why, let's real quick, why medieval why is Medieval Madness out?
01:42:40
Speaker
That game was number one for a long time. Because I can only shoot the castle so many times. I think that that's that is essentially what every single person said out of the four of us that did this. So I get it. Okay. Okay. ah The other one, going You're putting Rush in, right? Yeah, I'm putting Rush in.
01:42:59
Speaker
ah The other one, I'm going to probably say Evil Dead. Although I do think it's a great game. okay Top 10, it's close. and i'd probably i'd probably throw Iron Maiden back in there. It looks like it's eleven a it's 11. Elwin's getting Jaws, Jurassic Park, Godzilla, and Iron Maiden.
01:43:23
Speaker
he yeah Four out of the 10. yeah but dune or you don't sorry you don't have kong You don't have Kong up there.
01:43:30
Speaker
can't can't have it all So can you be, I need you to be real honest with me. I mean, i mean I'll be real honest with you. I might even put Avengers in that top 10. Shoot, son. Well, ah the question I have for you, is Rush a top 10 game?
01:43:49
Speaker
To me, yes. to Because it's Rush. No. Or is it because it genuinely lay out shots? I didn't put turtles in my top 10. I think it shoots good. The rules are good. There's so much depth to that game.
01:44:04
Speaker
yeah I think it's a great game. if If you put if you put a different soundtrack in there, I'd probably pick it for the layout. So let's say take Rush. Take everything that is Rush, but it's Led Zeppelin.
01:44:19
Speaker
Yeah. It's in there. you'd Okay. I don't know why hell they did a time machine, but... on Inland Zeppelin yeah where's the stairway we got a time machine no I get it I respect hey I respect the uh that's the title I love it though love it Travis what do we got what are we where we uh I would take out medieval madness and evil dead and replay like so original I know it's good it's literally what Tom's saying and I'm gonna put Iron Maiden in there
01:44:52
Speaker
Yeah, I would do that. What's the next one? Con? ah Avengers? i Yeah, i will I would legit put Avengers up there. there go not And it's not because I'm a big Marvel fan. yeah I think...
01:45:12
Speaker
I love the rules so much on that game. I don't care if other people think it's convoluted. I think it's the way that the rules are done. You can totally ignore the gems and be just fine.
01:45:24
Speaker
Right. Or you can choose to do something with the gems and place it. And it changes the whole complexity of your game, how you want it. Like, and it ah ultimately depends on if you're wanting to play a drop target heavy game, because if you place a gem on there, it makes those do something different. And that gives you a bunch of side features that you could do. So,
01:45:42
Speaker
it's very, it's so in depth that you can choose multiple ways to attack it. And that's what I love about that game, that rule set. Plus I think the layout is just fun to shoot too. So that could be, that could have been my little pony and I would have probably put it into the top 10 just because of those two reasons right there. I mean, honestly, there's so many good games, like just in the top 50.
01:46:07
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, Avengers is all the way down at 33. That shows you. It's not like it's close to the top 10. That's a ways down there. i was I was trying to think of it because it's like, I know this isn't the right way to think of it, but I was trying to be fair, which is like, okay, well, in the top 10, is Stern's best game somewhere in here?
01:46:28
Speaker
And I was like, our arguably, I think Stern's best game is probably either Godzilla or Jaws. So I was like, and that's my opinion. I was like, yep, they're in there. Okay. sure So is is JGP's best game in here?
01:46:40
Speaker
Well... I think, personally, I think JJP's best games are either Harry Potter or Elton John. And Harry Potter's right there at number two. So i do I do think Evil Dead is awfully close though. After playing it enough times it shows, I think it's super yeah close. yeah like it's I'm not discrediting the game. are you at you' just giving but yeah You're just giving me the option, like you need to remove two of these. Well, it's hard too, because ultimately too, if we remove those games, we're basically asking ourselves now, does Evil Dead better than Monster Bash?
01:47:18
Speaker
You know, obviously people think so in the aggregate because it's more. You removed it. You removed it over Monster Bash. Right. I do. I think Monster Bash is one of the most fun games there is. Just because the theme's goofy. I think the layout is just a lot of fun to shoot. think it's fun when you hit a ramp and it just barely goes and then it gains the speed. You're like, will it go? Will it not? I love Monster Bash. So that's what I'm going through that. I'm like, is CGC's best game in there? campy. Well, I think CGC's best game.
01:47:48
Speaker
I mean, I'm a fan of Cactus Canyon. That's why I own it. But I do think Attack from Mars is amazing. And I do think Monster Bash is amazing. So I'm like, okay, I think it's good. i think those deserve to be there, but not all three. Medieval Madness, I think, is not is below.
01:48:04
Speaker
like I would personally own Attack from Mars and Monster Bash before I'd owned Medieval Madness. Honestly, I would own an Evil Dead. if they weren't 15 grand right now. Sure. It's a great game. It's just, it's, yeah it's tough to judge it though too, because we're going to have so much recency bias or whatever that's called when you, I mean, it's like, who's going to put a solid state?
01:48:26
Speaker
in their top 10 over something. You know, it's awfully hard. But I will say this is my favorite game over a lot of games. This is my top five. This is what he's pointing to. Yeah, exactly. Top five of all time. And we're talking a late 70s solid state game. So so when we're discussing this, it's hard to weigh it against everything.
01:48:45
Speaker
I said, is Barrels of Fun's best game in there? and And without thinking, I was just like, yeah, Dune's in there. And then somebody's like, wait, realistically though, shouldn't Winchester be in this list?
01:48:56
Speaker
And then it was one of those like, oh Winchester isn't even, there isn't 50 reviews. Like Winchester isn't in the list at all. And that's one of those like people- That's because it a limited run and all that. Yeah, it's just, that is such, and ah that's when I'm like, oh,
01:49:13
Speaker
Is Winchester better than Dune? It might be. That's a really good game, and I would hope that once there's enough reviews, it's going to be up here in the top 25. um It may or may not. um So i don't know. It was an interesting experience. Hey, write in the YouTube comments or email us, Triple Train, or write on Facebook. Let us know. Let us know which two you'd take out. I mean, you can say Travis and I are high. It's fine.
01:49:37
Speaker
Well, no, I just don't think Travis is original. He just copied you. and yeah You let him first. travis one yeahs sarah Travis and I think very similar. ah which is for I'll pull a game up that should be a lot higher.
01:49:51
Speaker
Is it an EM? i was ah Let's look in the bottom 100. Let's see. I was going to say that I do think um Pulp Fiction could possibly be up there. like I'm a big fan. Do you own Pulp Fiction, Tom?
01:50:05
Speaker
I used to. i don't anymore. Okay, so tell Josh directly why you sold the game.
Defining 'Loaded' Pinball Games
01:50:15
Speaker
and No.
01:50:16
Speaker
um That shitty-ass code. That's what he's going to say. ah No LCD. You didn't know what to do. custom call-outs. didn't know what to do.
01:50:31
Speaker
right, I'm going to tell you guys the game that is criminally underrated. Okay, please tell me. Okay, Tom, tell me if you agree or not. Okay. Let's see if you can guess it. It's from 2005. Okay. 2005, so that would be last year.
01:50:45
Speaker
okay two thousand and five so that would be last year That's way before. is it like Congo? I don't know. I need a list. Or something. I don't know. I'm just im trying to think of games. The Zucanos.
01:50:58
Speaker
Oh, you've talked about that lot. You've talked about how that game don't think that game is like spectacular. I think it's fantastic. Hmm. It's like stripper poles. It's good. It's good. well The theme. yeah's the Right? Yeah, I know. yeah i know Joel, what does the stripper pole do on Sopranos? It spins. It spins. It spins. We brought it all the way back, brother. 20 plus years ago. yeah So this was my, this is my other question for you guys, which is, which is we're talking about mechs and it's like, okay, realistically that, so Transformers has, has, they have two very active mechs and Optimus have almost been three. So would that game have been considered loaded at that point? So my question to you, and I just real quick, if I say what loaded game, like what's the game that just popped into your head?
01:51:44
Speaker
When you hear what is a loaded game, what game popped into your head? Like that game's loaded with mechs. And I was trying to think about that.
01:51:55
Speaker
And i there's two that always pop into my head. Okay. But do you want me to go first? No, I'm not thinking about it. I'm like, I'm like, how the hell is radical? One hundred and seven. Yes. We got to say it same time. So I don't copy you.
01:52:13
Speaker
ah Elvis is one 80. OK, so let's say just. No, it's going to be fun. You go first, Travis. What's your loaded game? The most loaded game?
01:52:25
Speaker
Just what was the What I think of? Boom. Yeah, what popped in your head? That is like... Because that's... If you're saying Godzilla is now the North Star, i there what's another game that's the that feel that set the bar? Well, that's the problem. life that I feel like we've already established that. For it'd be Godzilla. Yeah, just because I think of it from a theme standpoint, too, Brian. Mm-hmm. together I mean if we think of just something that's just impressive and what it can do I mean then to me it's medieval madness with the castle even though it gets tiresome it over and again because does so much way different stuff and it's so prominent on the play field
01:53:00
Speaker
The two games that popped in my head, one of them was Toten. And people are going to, of course, you're chilling because that's the next game. But Toten gets compared to a lot because of the genie, because of the spinning ramp, because of the crazy whimsical ramps with multiple diverters.
01:53:14
Speaker
Interesting plunge on the right. You got the the the cages that are your ball saves on the outlanes, like preloaded. Pretty loaded game.
01:53:25
Speaker
Another one was ah I thought Lord of the Rings. I thought Lord of the Rings seems pretty loaded. cause But that game is loaded in a way. You got the figures all over. Those are just cosmetic.
01:53:36
Speaker
You got that upper play field. That's just cosmetic. The what is it? the The tower that falls in the back. That's not the ball that's causing it to fall. That's just a cosmetic thing.
01:53:48
Speaker
The ball rock. That sounds like you're onto something here, Joel. Yeah. The ball rock you do bash. That one you actually interact, but you have the sword ramp on the right. That's cosmetic.
01:53:58
Speaker
You got the crazy, the the the ramp that comes out. it Like i I understand the ring in the back is a magnet. But the way that that that wire form, there's the the whimsical wire form back there. Like that was one of those that was are standing out to me. of that's I think that game is considered loaded, but a lot of that is just unique ramps, cosmetic mechs. Like it's besides the Balrog.
01:54:20
Speaker
i don't know. That was maybe people think I'm smoking crack, but I just that was those were the two that popped into my head just right off the bat. Tom, do you have anything that we we haven't said that that and you hear that's ah that was a that's a loaded game.
01:54:32
Speaker
No. Nothing. Okay. I got nothing. Okay. um I'm just, maybe I missed it, but like I'm, I'm looking for hot wheels on this list.
01:54:50
Speaker
Oh, the top 100. yeah i don't see it don't see it in the top 300 it may not even have a ranking let me look i gotta just uh i was gonna say modern games you have something you have something with with godzilla but i think evil dead is pretty loaded that game is pretty loaded and uh and then um and then um and then ah Beetlejuice is pretty loaded.
01:55:20
Speaker
um that's They they know what they're doing. Is it not ranked? No, 141. 141. Where's the Legends of Alhalla? Less than 141. There's got to be less than 141. Are you sure about that?
01:55:35
Speaker
Nope. People love podcasts with people just browsing the internet. um were We're doing live. Well, it's more for...
01:55:47
Speaker
Wait, this what this is saying this game has only received four pin side reviews. It needs 46 more to be ranked. That's Legends of Valhalla. Really? Now that says Riot Pinball. Oh, let me do the American Pinball one. That's why.
01:56:01
Speaker
That's why. It's 123. it's ah one twenty three one tiger three Higher than think hi wow okay zero do you guys think so That's higher than GTF. I saw it at 123 and I was like, I don't think it's a game. I'm not saying that, but I'm just like, people think it's better than Hot Wheels. Okay.
01:56:29
Speaker
That's cool, I guess. Whatever. yeah well only you have Weird Al, that's ranked 121, so it's actually ahead of everything from from ah American Pinball.
01:56:44
Speaker
That's not their highest one. Heist is 117. I did not realize it. What's their highest one? Portal deserves to be even higher. Portal is... Yeah, Portal's awesome. Portal is the best P3 game while. Is Looney Tunes better than Congo?
01:56:59
Speaker
No, but guess what? It's nearly 100.
01:57:04
Speaker
Halloween. Yeah, I saw that. 104. If it only had more scoops, you know. Joel, game is considered that game is ranked higher than the Beatles Gold Edition. That is absurd. Beatles is incredible.
01:57:19
Speaker
Beatles is really a fun game. Now that we lost all our viewers. no It's either people are like, oh yeah, or they're like, you're an idiot. but I better shut up.
01:57:31
Speaker
A little bit of everything. Somebody asked me what the top five Stern games are. And I, part of me feels like I was trying to go for some variety. I didn't want just say five L ones. And so I put Beatles in it. I was like, if you're going to only have five Stern games, like just from a variety standpoint, that's single level. And Beatles.
01:57:51
Speaker
um Standout Max. There's a spinning disc. Is there a transforming Beatles in there? transforms a Beatles. You're right. You nailed that one. Does Paul turn into John?
01:58:03
Speaker
I also had Ray listen, look away, but i I think Foo Fighters might be in my top five. Once again, because I was going for variety. i really I really do miss Foo Fighters. I had it.
01:58:16
Speaker
i I've streamed the pro had a good time. I streamed the Ellie. I think recently, tom you still your food fighters, right?
Community Interactions & Future Plans
01:58:24
Speaker
Uh, yeah, I just streamed it. I got to the wizard mode on stream today.
01:58:30
Speaker
You streamed it today and you streamed it today and got to the final boss that long to know whether or not you still had it. there was a oh No, I was in the middle of something. You're interrupting. Yeah, you're right. I was just like, man, this guy owns so many games. If this is a hard question on whether or not he owns these games, but good for you. to that i got to fight I got to check in my third weird warehouse.
01:58:55
Speaker
ah Yeah, yeah. Where's storage? Foo Fighters is legit. Like, in that game, I really love the way that game shoots. And it's funny, and the modes feel different.
01:59:06
Speaker
And i really I really like that game. um Yeah. We can go into... We don't have to go into that now, but I think the top five games is...
01:59:17
Speaker
So hero would here's what would be interesting if Pinside does this or not, but like actually have like a graph of where a game ranked like at a certain time period and where it does now. But I don't see anything like that.
01:59:33
Speaker
But that would be cool. To see how it's moved over time. Yeah, because like Tron Legacy is like 48th right now. And I'm sure that was in the top 10 at some point.
01:59:46
Speaker
Oh, cause people interesting. Because people would really gush over their trying. Oh, so you're you're interested to see how far games have fallen yeah over a long period of time. Yeah.
01:59:57
Speaker
Okay. ah I do know there's... Well, let us know. ah YouTube, Facebook, email. Let us know if there's that's out there. I do know, I think it's um um Will, what's his last name? Audie?
02:00:12
Speaker
There's a new, it's like Pin Labs or something. There's a new website that they're trying to do more stuff. And I'm curious if somebody, is it Pin Labs? Did just make that up? No, that's not, that's no.
02:00:23
Speaker
Pin Hub? It thought I was saying Pine Labs, which is something totally different. Will, I'm sorry. I know there's a new website out here that it's ah that he's making. that I'm curious. If somebody knows that, is there somebody that that tracks or trends ratings over time? Or I wonder if ah with smart people, if there's a way to just see that using...
02:00:46
Speaker
the internet. i don't know. So let us know. Leave a comment. Maybe we can discuss that. If so, that would be pretty cool to see the rise and fall where, where things have gone up or down, um, over time. Uh, but it's pretty cool. Well, that's it.
02:01:00
Speaker
That's all I got. I know, um, we hit our, I wasn't trying to hit two hours, but I just realized we hit our two hours. You crushed it. Yeah. I think Tom crushed it. Tom was the true MVP this episode. Thank you. I was glad we led with him. I got a gold star.
02:01:15
Speaker
I mean, I'll give you a hug and a couple, ways and you're obviously going to be able to kiss Joel at the expo. That's obvious that's going to happen. That depends on the viewers. He needs 20-20. So really, we just need to spin it. Don't get don't give Tom the subs.
02:01:31
Speaker
For anything to do with this partnership with Twitch. It's just just put basically pay time to kiss me. That's what I'm hearing. that's hi ands That's awesome. Maybe that'll be one of those those talks at Expo.
02:01:45
Speaker
Okay. We could just talk for like 50 minutes about nonsense like we do on this podcast. You guys just finish it with a kiss. I'll Hershey kisses at Joel. Sign me up. Sign me up. I'd prefer you to spit them out of your mouth, though. That could be arranged.
02:02:06
Speaker
All right. For the three people that are still listening, thank you for being here. I know Mike's listening. Mike, I hope you're feeling good. I hope you're all cuddled up and ready to go to sleep because Mike listens to us before he goes to sleep. I wore a shirt dedicated to them too, to Teddy. Look look look at this.
02:02:22
Speaker
Oh, your lobster shirt. It's a lobster. Yeah. oster I thought it was potentially a dungeon crawl Carl shirt I'm ascending you know no and icrow yeah no no but I will as soon as soon as Carl's game comes out whole dc i will I will wear a shirt tra for Travis good luck at worlds 2 Oh, thank you. yeah for I totally forgot. am doing that. Joel didn't say thank you. I didn't qualify. I didn't call yeaht qualify for Worlds. It's okay, Joel. I don't know how I qualified. don't play anything anymore. so
02:02:57
Speaker
I'm just going to show up there. You just don't play. You just don't play and you qualify. yeah Awesome. Okay, well, let's plug it up. ah Tom, you go first. Hi, I'm Tom. I podcast on this channel. I also do a thing called Fox City Spinball, mainly on Twitch, but also on YouTube.
02:03:17
Speaker
Check it out. Sub. Sub a lot. Don't stop subbing. Oh, just kidding. Definitely watch, ah even if you don't sub, watch Whopper Chopper Worlds.
02:03:29
Speaker
and worlds That's awesome. Yeah. And check out his merch, Silver Ball Swag. We have some merch also on Silver Ball Swag. You can check that out, both Flippin' Out merch and Triple Drain merch and Fox City's merch and a lot of other fun merch.
02:03:44
Speaker
Thank you, Tom, like always. Thank you so much being here. Thank You are the reason I do this. I know. I hope you know. I have a charity case. Travis, go for it, dude.
02:03:57
Speaker
ah Yeah, you can find me on the Triple Drain and Pinball Podcast. And in two weeks, hopefully you can find me on the Fox Cities Pinball stream. a Hopefully not doing commentary. Hopefully I'm playing, not getting my ass kicked or embarrassed on ah on stream.
02:04:12
Speaker
And then you can also find me on YouTube over at the ah Pinball Company where I do videos and stuff like that. Yeah, and if you if you strongly disagree that Optimus should have moved,
02:04:26
Speaker
Go find Travis's latest video. Comment there. Comment there about how you disagree. Because you have strong takes, Travis. You have some strong takes. Bring the algorithm. It's fine. It's fine. Keep going. Keep going. I want the hate. Bring it.
02:04:40
Speaker
i want the hate bring it up ah Yeah, and I'm Joel. I do the Flippin' Out Pinball stream every Wednesday night with my brother from 10 to midnight. And then, obviously, I do this stream as well. So check that out. um Tutorial videos, there should be. Iron Man's up. I filmed a tutorial for Batman 66. And what else? there's I need to get a tutorial made for Pokemon, but I'm holding out for more code. I would love to love some more code there. ah It was a big deal streaming Batman 66. I have essentially streamed every Spike 2 game.
02:05:12
Speaker
at this point. And that's pretty fun. That's a, I'm really, I'm pretty cool to have had every spike two in my basement, except for the Costco pin. Somebody tried to pull that, that they're like, you never had any in the Costco. Like I never had, ah so I never had, um, Joe's above addition, you know, so yeah if you want to throw an asterisk on that, that's fine. But, uh, it's pretty cool. It is pretty cool to have streamed every, every,
02:05:38
Speaker
spike two and just see how different they are and how they've changed over time, which is pretty neat And then honestly, spike three is pretty legit. It's there's, there's a lot of cool advantages in spike three. So, uh, that's all I have. Um, Travis, we've heard enough of you. So, uh, yeah, Tom, like always, uh, you get the last words.
02:05:57
Speaker
Good night, everybody.