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Triple Drain Pinball Podcast Episode 72 - This one is for Ralph!
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Hosts: Joel Engelberth, Tom Graf and Travis Murie
Hello. I know it’s been a while so maybe we should reintroduce ourselves. We are Triple Drain consisting of two awesome Pinball Enthusiasts named Joel and Tom. They love their friends, their families and their friendship. A few years ago they decided to start a podcast and felt like they needed a third host. BIG MISTAKE. Here comes Travis. He is special.
Now that we’ve reacquainted ourselves please enjoy this month’s episode where we try to catch up on everything pinball related we missed in the last 2 MONTHS. We talk streaming Beetlejuice, streaming Pokemon, Pokemon sales, installing Spike 3 expression lights, Yukon Yeti, and honestly a ton of other stuff. Thanks for sticking with us and please enjoy the episode!
YOUTUBE - https://www.youtube.com/@tripledrain
APPLE PODCAST - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/triple-drain-pinball-podcast/id1801297546
SPOTIFY PODCAST - https://open.spotify.com/show/2bXltnKD71nmPKPbYHF4u9?si=tXEr45h1REicPtGuA5N_xg
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/tripledrain
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tripledrainpodcast
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@tripledrain
Email: tripledrain@gmail.com
Merch: https://silverballswag.com/collections/triple-drain-pinball-podcast
More Merch: https://www.zazzle.com/store/tripledrain
Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/triple_drain
Travis' stuff: https://www.youtube.com/@ThePinballCompany
Tom's stuff: https://www.youtube.com/@Foxcitiespinball
Joel's stuff: https://www.youtube.com/@FlipNOutPinball
Shoutout to Jackson Gee and his incredible artwork. jacksongee.com
Shoutout to Brad Johanson and his company Alter Creative Media for his intro video. Altercreativemedia.com
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Transcript
Introduction to Joel and Travis Domu and Podcast Dynamics
00:00:04
Speaker
We're three guys who like the talking ball. So we came up with a club, our name. We're Joel and Travis Domu talking ball. And we call ourselves triple drink, triple drink, triple drink.
00:00:19
Speaker
We're triple, triple drink.
00:00:23
Speaker
Here we are. Two months. It's been two months. It's been two months. I checked. We uploaded we uploaded the episode February 13th. We're recording this April 14th.
00:00:35
Speaker
um so Oh, and by the way, when you send your emails to Triple Drain, they don't go to Joel. They go to me. Okay. so But you can say Joel or Jared. It's fine. yeah I'll just make sure they get to the right people.
00:00:51
Speaker
I've had access to that email as well. and i see But normally it's Tom gets the ding and then I get a message, Joel, you got another email. and it's um so i print into twoevers that What's happening is people are watching the Flippin' Out pinball stream and then for whatever reason, the way to contact me, they're emailing Triple Train. So when Tom's like, another email about Joel and Jared. He's like, geez. But hey, I appreciate it. appreciate anybody reaching
Personal Events and Pinball Adventures
00:01:16
Speaker
out. um But it's been two months, February 13th. So that was the day before Tom's birthday, right? Because your birthday was on February 4th. Yeah, Valentine's Day. um he's
00:01:25
Speaker
Yeah, so Tom had his birthday. I had my birthday March 6th. ah Travis, you don't, I don't know your birthday. I have no idea. It was three days ago, you ass. that's right. that's i wish a happy birthday. Everybody in the group chat was like, happy birthday, Travis. And Joel just like honeydicked me and didn't say anything, but whatever. Well, that birthday, Travis. So we've all had birthdays. um In this two-month period, a game has been revealed.
00:01:53
Speaker
Tom bought that game. Tom streamed that game. And Tom has sold that game. That's all happened. You sure? Yep. That's all happened. ah What else has happened? TPF happened. None of us went.
00:02:06
Speaker
We weren't there. That's why we didn't have a TPF show we We had none of that. Yep. Tom has streamed multiple tournaments. He's participated in multiple tournaments. That is true.
00:02:18
Speaker
We've had spring break. i had two weeks spring break. I mean, there was just a lot. And honestly, normally the three of us, we try to record on Fridays and it was just one Friday after another that somebody wasn't available. So here we are Tuesday night, 10 o'clock at night, my time.
00:02:32
Speaker
We're making it happen. We're making happen. So I apologize. It's been two months, but here we are. Sound good? Are you noticing every time we podcast, we always started out with Joel apologizing. Start with apology. And Tom, you and I, we don't grovel, Tom. We just here and we're just like, you know.
00:02:50
Speaker
I've just given up. So, yeah you know. like Well, we got just like re retro world wealth. 90% of people are down on me anyways. So I'm just like, you know what? That's fine. yeah We just got to think. You be you.
00:03:04
Speaker
We have, you know, retro Ralph messages us and he goes, guys, I need a podcast. Do you think that was Ralph talking to us or do you think that was AI talking to It was probably AI. He's been living in that a a world, you know, with those shorts. i so short their JBS show, like the three of those guys, I guess they took the episode down because there was like an audio issue.
00:03:28
Speaker
Oh, bummer. Yeah. Did they? Yeah, I guess so. Well, that's never fun. Jamie posted something about that. Man, we've never had to do that. I know, and I'm like, I was all excited because I have this long drive to Michigan to play in the pinball at the zoo tournament. Well, hopefully it's salvageable. Is that just a recent one? think it was like they released it this morning or something like that. Fucking AI by Ralph just not doing it.
00:03:56
Speaker
Well, good for them and for, you know, being consistent, making podcasts, getting them out, you know, so we, yeah. Hey, we talked about it. We have talked about it. have. We have. And, and we've done stuff on our, uh, Patreon too.
00:04:09
Speaker
At least I've tried to. I've tried to. I've been active where I can be.
Engagement with Supporters and Game Experiences
00:04:14
Speaker
So we now have over 100 Patreon supporters. ah Fun fact, there's a free tier. There's a free tier. So the vast majority of those are the free tier. but So all the paid will go to free. That's what, you know, honestly, the goal, we've always looked at the the paid Patreon supporters as thank you. Like, thank you for just supporting this.
00:04:34
Speaker
And we try, we try to fit these in. We do this cause it's fun. We do this cause we enjoy just chatting it up, the three of us. And it's crazy that people enjoy having, enjoying these discussions. So if you're a supporter on Patreon, thank you. Thank you so much. i actually just renewed our Zencaster license. So that's a few hundred bucks. I had to pay our taxes on our Patreon. what Like it's essentially a wash at the end of the day. Taxes and pinball. this thank you for um for supporting us and and we very very much appreciate that uh but we are trying to do more with patreon because we realized the three of us we were sending like little videos and memos and stuff to each other with random pinball thoughts and we thought you know what patreon would be a great spot for these so we're going to post those more on on patreon um so feel free to follow us there another thing youtube we're trying to get to a thousand subs so if you haven't subscribed even if you don't watch us on youtube
00:05:25
Speaker
Even if we don't put out an episode ever again, just subscribe. Let's get to that thousand and then we're we retire. I think it was apparently. So, okay. Now that we got all that out going to be that YouTube channel that just releases a video like every couple months. I'm back, guys. Last update. Yep.
00:05:44
Speaker
uh what's ah what's actually happened so we've all gotten older uh we've all had birthdays um we bought machines we sold machines yes i wanted to i i actually looked at our our last episode in february and when we actually talked about beetlejuice we were talking about beetlejuice because travis and i played it at at um at pinball at the beach tom have you spent time on beetlejuice yet have you had an opportunity to play one I've played one game and that was during, ah during pin masters. I snuck over to great American pinball, Mike Nogle. He, he opened up his place. He was closed on Sunday for me to play it. but Actually myself and Neil graph, my son, but we, we got a game on it and I thought it was cool.
00:06:32
Speaker
Great. That's your one pin, your one game review? One game. There we go. One game. So you have one on order and do you still have one on order? We still have one on order. yes Okay. There we go. ah What did Neil think?
00:06:44
Speaker
he he He enjoyed it. He thought it was cool. Okay. need Yeah. I mean, it's you know it's always hard to judge one game, but it's ah yeah, we thought it was pretty neat.
00:06:56
Speaker
Yeah. I streamed it. We had Bug on the second stream. And um honestly, I know my my brother loved it. My brother absolutely loved it. um My wife actually really enjoyed playing it.
00:07:07
Speaker
um it's I enjoyed it as well. I think it is fun. um I had so many people are like, which one's better? Beetlejuice or Evil Dead? Beetlejuice or Evil Dead? I would say overall...
00:07:19
Speaker
uh, Evil Dead shoots better. Evil Dead is a better shooting pin, but I like the theme of, of Beetlejuice better. Um, and I enjoy the modes. They've just done such a good job of just fully diving into story-based modes, modes that focus on the mechs.
00:07:37
Speaker
Um, you know, like I think the Deo mode is an incredible mode. Um, The more you do it though, you realize like having a mode that is constantly messing with your flippers can actually be very frustrating because you can't you can't hit the shot. So it's just one of those things where I'm like, okay, I understand Spooky has realized they are selling to the collectors, the enthusiast.
00:08:01
Speaker
Their goal is not tournament players. Their goal is not, they don't really care about points. So what you're saying is collectors like to be frustrated when they're playing pinball. I think collectors like moments. And if they're in the middle of a moment where that worm is dancing and the couch is dancing and they drain, ah like i don't I think that's that's not as as much of a hurt as like if somebody put Beetlejuice in a tournament, but that's a different story. like i I feel like people would actively be avoiding the day alone. So, okay, there's been this weird thing that's been going on for like...
00:08:36
Speaker
think two or three years now, maybe four or five. I don't know. What do you think, Tom, that for whatever reason, content creators and other people out there that don't necessarily play tournaments think that... We know everything. Right. And we've never claimed to. We continuously say, like, the games are just made to for the masses to play, just like we talked about the tournament player. But you're a tournament player, so you don't...
00:09:01
Speaker
Well, it's like we talked about the best tournament player in the history of pinball. That's like the best designer doesn't even make it specifically for tournament players. You know, it's like you can't do that. But for whatever reason. But that's what people say. It's so weird. It's like us as tournament players, we know that.
00:09:19
Speaker
And we accept that because we have to work around it. But yet non-tournament players think everything's geared towards tournaments. And it's not. Otherwise, these games would be, i don't know, balanced.
00:09:31
Speaker
They're not always balanced. it's just mean It's a pinball machine. That's it. True. But Keith Elwin, he makes balanced games. he like He makes games. Ray Day makes balanced games. He does an extent.
00:09:47
Speaker
there's always an There's always an exploit. All you got to do, okay, watch Z-Mac play any of those games and tell me how balanced everything is. like okay people People couldn't find exploits. like that's just the reality. But what we're talking about is is just...
00:10:00
Speaker
That's the bone I have to pick that everybody seems to think everything's about tournaments or we got to no worry about that. And we just, we don't. I'm not trying to really, I'm not trying to say that. It's not you, Joel. It's not you, Joel. There are others. I hear this all the time. It's 98% of people. It's so. It's the damnedest thing. It's just like, at the end day, it's just pinball. It's like, it's going to have a mech. It's going to have flippers. It might have pop bumpers. It might even have ramps. It might even have an on and off switch, but it's just like,
00:10:31
Speaker
At the end of the day, I think all that really matters is how's the gameplay. And I think if you ask somebody to really define, especially a non-tournament player, what makes gameplay tournament worthy, they would have no idea how to conceptualize that. okay No idea how to define that. And I think probably even 95% of tournament players wouldn't even know that either. I don't know if I even know that. So it's like, okay yeah why why can't we just enjoy the games, Joel?
00:10:58
Speaker
That's a good question. What do you think? that is That's a good question. I think the challenge is every pinball machine has score And what i what what Bug or what Spooky has kind of openly admitted is he's like, who cares about score? like he just he At least when him and Spooky Luke or whoever's designing a game, score is the last thing on their mind. But why does score matter? like For tournaments, why does it matter? like I think it matters if you're playing against yourself or you're playing against somebody else. But it's like saying, I'm going to go bowl, but who cares what the score is because I'm going to get 65. But in tournament.
00:11:34
Speaker
And you win by having a higher score. You can go bowling and enjoy it. Yes. if you you care about to right If you don't play in tournaments, why do you care about tournaments? That's why i don't understand. i don't I don't get it, Joel. Joel, tell us. As a casual player, Joel, that doesn't play any tournaments but just one every 10 years, tell us. yeah why Why do tournaments matter that much to the non-tournament people?
00:12:00
Speaker
Um, hmm. I think what it is, is I think the worry is that, um, trying to keep a game balanced with score or trying to add in stuff like shot multipliers, playfield multipliers, like all these things that all affect a score can compate complicate a game.
Game Complexity and Player Enjoyment
00:12:22
Speaker
and And that can be overwhelming to a person that just wants to play the game and experience the moments. Who said you had to have a multiplier? Right. I would ask that person, why do they have to do why did they have to go for the multiplier? Just like Tom was saying. like why Let's go back like 50 years.
00:12:40
Speaker
Okay. Okay. All right. We're going to that. What year is that? Everybody get in your time machine. 1976. Tom has an F row. 1976. Mm-hmm.
00:12:49
Speaker
huh I'm not born yet. The world is happy. ah But anyways, there are EM machines, right? Yeah. yeah Okay.
00:13:01
Speaker
You, you, you walk up to an EM, m right? Are you like, man, i love this pop bumper action. This is really getting me off. I love, I love shooting these targets.
00:13:15
Speaker
So nice. Oh, you're, you're playing it for score, right? Well, yeah, but an EM doesn't have modes. An EM doesn't have moments. and There's no story being told. did you just say an EM doesn't have moments? Oh, my God, Joel. What's the moment going to be? On an EM, the moment is going to be hitting a crazy high score shot.
00:13:35
Speaker
It's going to be building something. Have you ever played Nippet? No. What is Nippet? ah so So Nippet is actually a game where, like, I think it's an alligator. Like, there's actually a Mac that grabs the ball and pulls it.
00:13:51
Speaker
Really? It's an EM. Yeah. Look it up. It's fun. That sounds great. Use Google, which wasn't around in 1976, but we're going to do it anyways. I think I mean, I'm not going to sit here. I understand. Sure. Apparently I'm a podcaster and I talk into a microphone and act like I know something about pinball. What I know about.
00:14:11
Speaker
is LCD era pinball. That's what I know about. That is what I've done. i've been with that yeah no I've been very fortunate that, um, that I have, I have had every, like I've had every spike to game in my basement and streamed at some point.
00:14:26
Speaker
except for Batman 66. That's the last one that I need to do. But it's like, I've spent a lot of time with this. I've, I've streamed a lot of, a lot of LCD era games in the last five, six years. So I'm, I feel like I can talk that level, but I, I am no expert when it comes to, um EM games, even like system 11s. There's only a handful that I've spent time on, like anything of that era. It's,
00:14:51
Speaker
I mean, the the dot matrix hit or the DMD games, a lot of those are the remakes that I've played. So I'm not going to sit here and act like an expert, but I just, I'm sure if I have to be the voice of the, well, the tournament players are making, i what what could I think? Let's drop the tournament player thing.
00:15:08
Speaker
like yeah So, okay. I think people just get in their own heads. I'm a collector of games. What would be a better way to it? The one in the dark room over there is ah is a Stern Stars. Okay. Okay.
00:15:20
Speaker
Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Right next to us, a Harlem Globetrotters. Right next to us, a Flashcourt. Okay. I see a Harlem Globetrotters behind him. Okay. Yeah. Such a complicated rule set. My God. Yeah.
00:15:35
Speaker
But... here' Here's the thing. yeah okay You're talking about LCDs, right? He's about to tell you thing, Joel. Get ready. I'm i'm umm um' here i'm locked in. let let's Let's relate it to cars, okay? You're talking about something.
00:15:52
Speaker
Are you going to start driving a Model T Ford? so No. No, Tom. I mean, okay. so like Here's the thing.
00:16:04
Speaker
It's hard to go. you can't go backwards, right? Okay. Right? So you're going to have to deal with modes and things like that. Because time machines have not been invented, Joel. That's correct. 1976. We can only go forwards. Okay.
00:16:17
Speaker
Okay. Go ahead. And I totally appreciate what Spooky's doing. They're trying to make it more fun. They're trying, but but they're doing it with modes.
00:16:30
Speaker
Yeah. Right? Right? Right. But they're not ignoring scoring either.
00:16:37
Speaker
They... I mean, it's in the game. They have scoring in the game. At least when I was talking to Spooky... Or, like, when when Bug was on the stream, I think somebody asked. They're like, I'm going to play this in a tournament. Where should I start with scoring? or so And he was basically like, I don't know. Like, he just...
00:16:54
Speaker
as a designer scoring seems like it's the last thing on his mind of what's, how do you balance the modes? What's a good jackpot shot? Like I remember listening to, Elizabeth Gieske and some, it was either Rick Nagel or it might even been Jack danger, but they were like, what's a good value for a shot?
00:17:12
Speaker
Like just hitting a shot in a mode, what's a good base value. And I think the answer was like 200,000 or 250,000. Like that's a good, you hit the shot you get. And it's just to listen to them talk about,
00:17:24
Speaker
where the math is and then what should build off of that and then like it's just all of a sudden and i i try to focus it's like that's just something that i personally as a pinball enthusiast i don't think about all at all i do not think about the the value of a shot all i think about is does this shot help progress me through this mode so that i can get to the next mode and i can tell you with a hundred percent honesty i do the same thing Okay. that yeah All it is is just different strategies for how to play literally the same machine.
00:17:55
Speaker
You're either choosing, do you want to enjoy it because you're following a logical sequence that the software encoder wanted you to follow because of the score and that type of progression?
00:18:06
Speaker
Are you following a sequence to get to a wizard mode? Are you just trying to explore different modes, different multiballs, different features? I mean, Anybody can play pinball for any reason.
Game Development and Player Immersion
00:18:17
Speaker
That's why i think when, when people get, because I just hear this so much across like different content people and I'm not pointing out any one thing because it's like, you guys know, know me. I don't listen to much content, but I talked a lot of people that they're like, Hey, what do you think about this? what do you think about that?
00:18:33
Speaker
And I think it just boils down to people just got to enjoy pinball the way that they want to enjoy pinball because you can take like in disc, Carl and Jim have proven you can take any pinball machine that can power on and put it in a high level tournament.
00:18:48
Speaker
Jim Belcedo has proven that. And he will continually do that. That's why like freaking night, was it night moves? Is that the the pen, Tom? The cocktail table? Yeah, it was at our Caribbean cruise. Yeah, was one of those. So it's like, you could take anything and make it a tournament pen, but sure at the end of the day, who cares? Like, it doesn't matter because...
00:19:10
Speaker
When people are buying these for homes, right? They're buying it to enjoy. Sure, some people might buy it to test it out, you know, for tournaments, whatever. But the vast majority are just playing to play, even on location.
00:19:22
Speaker
The vast majority that are playing it on location, they're not necessarily joining up for tournament's sake. They're just dropping by, putting coin drop and just playing it. And I say that as somebody that's a staff member of IFPA, it's like, I think we just gotta to get out of that mindset that everything has to be centered around that.
00:19:40
Speaker
And pinball can be enjoyed a lot of other ways. Even if like, if you don't know how to do the multiplier, okay, who cares? Do you know how to do the multi-ball? Maybe that's fun. Do you how to start a mode? Okay. That's fun. It's like, I like to play chess. It doesn't mean I'm going to freaking go out and know every move and beat Magnus anytime soon. I'm going to be down with the 600 E loaves. Like, and I have perfect fun with that.
00:20:02
Speaker
Right. like i Yeah, I understand that. I know we've had this conversation. We've had this conversation multiple times because you say, just because if I play, whatever, if I play Jaws in a tournament, I'm going to play it differently than probably how I play Jaws at home because like i'm I'm going for the wizard mode. I want to see all the moments. I want to see all the modes. I want to see that. And I understand. but But yet, if you're actively in a tournament, you're saying, what is the safest shot to get me the highest score as quickly as possible? That's the... All playing in a high level tournament really is, is that you know your path yeah and you're going to do your path. It's like, if I'm going to play golf, seriously, like I'm going to step up to the masters. I'm going to try to hit it.
00:20:41
Speaker
Right. Like down the fairway, get a good fade or something like that. If I'm playing like local, I'm freaking ripping beers and trying to hit it 400 yards. like what does it matter? Yeah.
00:20:52
Speaker
That's a good analogy, actually. I think that's great. I think my where I think, um I mean, I can't, apparently I'm supposed to be speaking for the people, but I don't know. joe All we're saying is is, you you're on our side on this. Everybody needs to start ripping beers more and just play pinball and let it fly and stop worrying so much about everything. Let the tournament players worry about the score. If you don't play tournaments, don't worry about the multipliers. If you don't, if you don't have to worry about it, there's nothing that says you have to.
00:21:22
Speaker
Yeah, i don't I don't know what all the stress is about, I guess. Well, out of this. what's the what is what are the What are people saying? Like, what are the things that are people are harping on right now?
00:21:35
Speaker
I mean, it's like it's like anything else. And I go back and forth on this because I hear this all the time because I get comments just based on the type of content I put out, right? Trying to teach people how to play the game. And sometimes that does involve saying, hey,
00:21:48
Speaker
Think about this, Hey, do that. And I try to get it down to the point that somebody could understand that's fairly new because I know if I try to explain it as if somebody has been playing for five to 10 years already, and we talk on that level,
00:22:03
Speaker
which there's probably like maybe 50 people in the entire world that would actually follow that along or even want to follow along with that. So it's like, it's just difficult to conceptualize. I think it's just, I've heard this a lot from different people and i just,
00:22:20
Speaker
I think really what we're all getting at is that we just want to see games fleshed out more probably yeah whenever they get released. I think that's really what we're all saying. And so some people might be worried that, well, it's not fleshed out because they're too focused on this one thing. And and instead of like this thing, I want them to. So I don't know. I think when we talk about pinball rules, score balance and everything, that can still be a very abstract idea.
00:22:46
Speaker
I don't think any of us can really truly define that except for the ones that work extensively in the industry and actually do that for a living in terms of having to create the code or having to design a game. I think all of them, all those men and women are like at the forefront of that. Joel and I don't have to worry about that. yeah i just I just worry people get in their own way of enjoying the game.
00:23:10
Speaker
When they could. It's like, i look at Beetlejuice. Throw a buck in it and play it. It's like, why does it have to be a tournament game? Why can't Joel just play play it and have fun? Let Joel have fun. I absolutely can play it and just have fun. And that's what amazes...
00:23:26
Speaker
Amazed me when we played Beetlejuice because consistently my scores were way higher than my brother's. like My ball times were way longer than my brother's. But yet, he loved it. like He had a great time.
00:23:36
Speaker
And it's interesting that at the end of the night, you know it's like, I thought, man, that game beat you up a little bit. But he's just like, dude, I love this. like i He absolutely... So whatever it was that he was playing for the period of time he was playing, he was enjoying.
00:23:50
Speaker
And so I don't know if it's just Beetlejuice does a really good job of There's very little you have to do to then be in another good mode. There's very little you have to do to be fighting the worm. It's the immersion of it.
00:24:02
Speaker
Oh, all of that. And there's no, there's no. Immersion is huge in pinball. I mean, if can get somebody to keep going back, that's, that's the bread and butter right there.
00:24:14
Speaker
But yeah, I agree. But that's what I'm thinking of with Beetlejuice. It's like all you have to do is hit three shots, basically any of the major shots. You just hit three of them and then you hit the shot on the right and boom, you're in a mode. And it's like the moment you're out of that mode, pretty easily to shoot three random shots. Oh, you're back in a mode. Or, oh, you want to fight the worm? You just have to hit the worm three times. like It was very easy to just keep getting into other things. And um I think that's what Jared...
00:24:39
Speaker
ah Jared like enjoyed. Now, to me, it's like because it's, you know, over the course of two hours, I feel like maybe not in one game I'm showing off every mode or playing every mode. But over the course of two hours, I can play everything in the game. Like, it's just it's just OK. In that game, I focused on this. On that game, I focused on this. Now, I understand there's they're adding more to the to Beetlejuice. And I and I think it's like after you play three or four modes, there's going to be like a mini wizard mode. I don't that was not in the game.
00:25:05
Speaker
um i think they implemented that now, though. It probably probably. yeah so that's i think that's the dancing the yes stairs thing yeah yep um but props to props to because they made a really fun game and what was really cool was they added ah they got a license for another song and it's the um It's the jump in the line, jump in the bump, bump, but i'm bump but i'm and i bu bumping um it's that song, whatever it is at the end. It's in the game. It's it's when she's dancing at the end with the stairs.
00:25:37
Speaker
They got the license for that and they they closed the deal on that and paid for it after the game was already sold out. So it's like there was no need for them to do that.
00:25:48
Speaker
But they felt this is needed in the game. We want it in the game. So let's take some of our profits and pay for it to be in the game, even though the game was sold out like that. I thought that was one of those like, all right, was that the smartest financial decision? Probably not. The game's already sold out, but good on them. Like it just builds up more. I just think the overall credibility or or the collector community is really,
00:26:10
Speaker
um really behind spooky in what they're doing uh spooky pinball and because they are clearly just putting whatever they want in the games making very immersive games getting good themes um and i think they're trying to make their collectors happy so i i know jared is jared loves it when we stream spooky games he just loves that those types of games and i had a blast i had a blast on the game so tom when you get yours i think you're really going enjoy yours Um, and honestly, I think it's a hard, a hard question, which is better, Beetlejuice or Evil Dead.
00:26:41
Speaker
Um, right now I'd lean towards Evil Dead, but Evil Dead is also also a complete game. Like it's already, it's finished. So I'm very curious to see where, where Beetlejuice ends up. So I'll have to hear more about that, Tom, when you get that. Um, another question. Oh, another thing that's happened since February. Uh, Tom, you got a Winchester. You got a Winchester Mystery House.
00:27:04
Speaker
Um, Thoughts? I mean, what's your overall thoughts of having it in the collection? I like it. How'd Carl do? He did great. He did awesome. It's an awesome game.
00:27:17
Speaker
I'd like to see, you like, maybe another code update, but... Yeah, what's that, Carl? No, he's not coding the game. No, it's Carl. Carl's doing it all. He's one main band.
00:27:29
Speaker
I mean, sure, Eric might be involved, but... But no, I think it's cool. i like i got I got Dune and I got Winchester and I think both games are amazing.
00:27:41
Speaker
That's awesome. That's awesome. Um, my Dune is not here yet soon, soon. Um, they have, I think it might be code complete Dune. They put in the final wizard mode.
00:27:54
Speaker
Uh, speaking of Carl on IE pinball, he actually streamed it the other night and showed the fight, like he showed the whole game. So it's all in there. They put in some extra little side quests, some other side modes, uh,
00:28:06
Speaker
One thing that I think that's really neat is ah my biggest complaint with Dune was I thought the Harvester battles were boring. And I also felt the Fadaikin multiball, the shot on the far, far right, that lock, I almost completely ignored it because it was a standalone multiball.
00:28:24
Speaker
And somebody at Barrels of Fun got smart. And realized, what if we what if we fix that? And so now they made it where the Fidakin multi-ball, Fidakin, Fidakin, whatever, it can only be done during a harvester battle.
00:28:39
Speaker
And so you have to lock the ball outside of that, and then you can get into a harvester battle and start that, and it just makes the harvester battle more enjoyable, and it's a great way to use that mech. And it was just one of those like, okay, ah that's it. i've I've run out of complaints. Like, i've already I'm already excited to out have of the game. I'm pumped to get the game.
00:28:56
Speaker
But those were my critiques. Those were my critiques on the game. And somehow... By making that change, they fixed both of those critiques in one go.
Exploring Pokémon Pinball's Features and Future
00:29:05
Speaker
um So I don't know. i just They're doing a lot right. They're doing a lot right. Barrels of fun. So I'm really excited to get to get Dune here in the house.
00:29:13
Speaker
um And I'm glad you're still enjoying the game, Tom. I was curious if that honeymoon phase would wear off. But it sounds like you still like it. It's good.
00:29:24
Speaker
It's good. Good game. It's not going anywhere. Good. Okay. Uh, speaking of going, uh, Pokemon, Pokemon, Pokemon. So, um, Travis, you're selling like all of them, right? They're just, you're just as a, let's, let me ask you this as a, as a, uh, as somebody that works for a pinball company is Pokemon a success.
00:29:51
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I'd say little bit. Yeah. I mean, okay yeah. First run sold out like just within days, like it just it flew. So yeah. And, and I, I'm getting the vibe that I think it's going to keep selling.
00:30:06
Speaker
That's the vibe. So I think this might sell for a while. I hope so. That's fine. I, I will admit we're kind of seeing happen. What always happens that I've told you guys about before that,
00:30:19
Speaker
Is it a code thing? Well, yeah, it is. It is. This plays out every time. And, you know, here's the exact sequence. And if any pinball manufacturers listening to this, like here's like literally the truth.
00:30:36
Speaker
Whenever a game comes out, of course, you know, it'll sell decent usually, or like Pokemon, it just sell like crazy at the very beginning. Right. But at any point after you get past that first initial burst, that first initial run, whenever people start talking online and they start giving their critique, their review- The Orbit!
00:30:55
Speaker
yeah Yeah. It wasn't us. We didn't talk for two months. that too Yeah, it wasn't wasn't us. But what I'm getting at is, is then after you get like within 60 days, you start getting the next batch of people that have played it a little bit or they're just now becoming aware of it more and more. And they're thinking about buying, but now they're wanting validation from people that have experience on the game.
00:31:19
Speaker
And if people realize and they hear that, hey, they like if they claim the code shallow, whether it's true or not, whether they claim rules aren't fun, whether it's true or not, not saying that's exclusive to Pokemon. i'm saying this is like any game that comes out, yep any game that comes out, it affects cells greatly every single time because the second run people are always using online for validation.
00:31:45
Speaker
Always. And so it's just like, that's why I just wish that that a game, as soon as it comes fully fleshed out and people do enjoy, when I say fully fleshed out, I mean, it's good for release code. It's going somewhere. There's a roadmap where to go.
00:32:01
Speaker
And there's consistent updates coming out that tends to help sales along because people keep seeing, oh, the game's getting updated. oh the owners are really excited about it. Oh, the reviews are coming in that it's really fun. It's really good. And I mean, that's typically this works. There's one huge negative with the release of it.
00:32:23
Speaker
What's that? Not my dog, but the Insider Connect. Yeah. There's no Insider Connect. Yeah. Which is yeah pretty much like the expectations out of everybody. So it's kind of, yeah, I imagine if you are a- I pay for my Insider for nothing. I know. If you're a Stern fan, you're wondering where what's going on. The of achievements is weird. and so And we all know it'll be there, but yeah the question is when? Yeah.
00:32:54
Speaker
And when am I going to see all the Pokemon I catched? Unless do i have to catch them again? No, they're being tracked. They are definitely being tracked because anytime you catch another one, your total keeps going up. So they're being tracked, but something...
00:33:11
Speaker
Yeah, I've I mean, I've heard from more than one person that they will probably own Pokemon at some point in time. But their view is like, they're waiting to wait like they they missed out on the alley.
00:33:22
Speaker
nope They missed out on the alley. So they're like, I'll just get a used pro or just wait, you know, down the road. And even if if all of a sudden the game gets super hot. This is a title. It's huge. They're going to be making these for a while. So it's just, what's the rush? um So, okay. So i I think your synopsis there was great, Travis. Basically, it came out like a rocket. And now it might be cool and off a little bit. Might be coming back down. But it'll go right back up as soon as new code releases and people start playing it.
00:33:52
Speaker
I mean, look what happened with Dune, right? That guy. Oh, I feel. That got the bump. James Bond, same exact thing a few years ago, got a bump. Deadpool got a bump. Guardians got a bump. I mean, this is... These are all games. We've seen this play out every single time. It's just... I will say the one thing... The one thing that time can't fix is a bad layout.
00:34:17
Speaker
if if ah if a If a game is a bad layout... or it's bad mechs or it's boring or something like, honestly, Star Wars Fall the Empire, that Death Star mech was killing it, was killing any sort of love or hype for that for that game. And then luckily, they fixed it.
00:34:35
Speaker
And that game is- Yeah, luckily they fixed it, but from from skill. They did. They they fixed it. I'm saying they they fixed it and and they they made it better. But nor but if it's like... if it If a game has a bad layout where it's like that shot is just not in a good spot. like There's certain things you can't fix so when it comes to layout. Luckily, the Death Star mech, they were able to fix. And then Ray Days continued to put more and more into that code. A huge shout out to Ray. He actually...
00:35:02
Speaker
He did something that I know we complained about I know I complained about. No, well he he just likes you, Joel. and that's right. He'll do anything you ask. Yeah. Yeah. My praise is what he looks for. Right. Yeah. it's a hoy Yeah. Uh, Ray did something that I thought was awesome. And we had a really good discussion outside of this. And it was from one of the podcasts we had. And, and basically my complaint were some of these modes are same Z with, with star Wars. They're same Z. It's just like, I start a C three P up three P O mode and Oh, I got some blinky blue lights and then, Oh, great. The layout mode looks pretty similar. So I'm like, where's the, where's the story? Where's the whatever. And, um,
00:35:41
Speaker
And lots of discussion back and forth and props to Raymond, but he wrote, is it eight or six? It's whatever the characters are. Is it eight, six, whatever, whatever the number of characters are. He wrote that many unique modes.
00:35:54
Speaker
So now all you have to do is play one of the normal modes. So if you play Leia, you, you play a Leia mode. If you beat that mode, Then the next time you re you hit your force targets and the modes are lit again, if you hit the Leia shot, the right ramp again, you get to speed or speeder battle or speeder bikes.
00:36:12
Speaker
And that's like a mini mode that is story driven and unique. And like, that's a moment. Like he put that in the game and he made unique things for each character. So that, I don't know, props to you, Ray, for like continuing to add to that game and flesh it out. But that was, I got distracted by wanting to pat you on the back. Um,
00:36:31
Speaker
That game, the the shots and layouts, you can't fix a bad layout. Or most of the time, you can't fix a bad layout. So all those games you mentioned, Travis, like Deadpool. Deadpool's a great layout.
00:36:41
Speaker
It's just its an initial code sucked. ah Guardians the Galaxy, good layout. It's just initial code sucked. My view of Pokemon is I... Bond. Genwick. Great layout. Yeah, I don't have complaints of this. X-Men.
00:36:54
Speaker
Code. Well, X-Men's layout is a little, I love, I love that layout. But for some people that that just, that game, you really got to tweak it. And I don't know, I've had a lot of people reach out to me and they're like, I've seen your X-Men stream and your game shoots great. What did you do? And I'm like, I did this and this and this, but I understand that's not a one size fits all. That's not necessarily going to do it for your game. And I feel bad for that. um But with all that said, Pokemon, the one thing I can say very confidently and clearly is I really enjoy shooting the game. Like, I really like the layout. I have zero complaints with the layout. The left orbit on this game, I didn't have to i didn't i didn't have to do anything to it.
00:37:34
Speaker
It's consistent. It feeds right to the flipper. I've had no straight down the middle. Like, the left orbit, it's good. This is a premium, so I could look at the date, but it's... I mean, it's it's good. So Stern figured out what to do with the left orbit.
00:37:48
Speaker
I have zero complaints with the game, the way the game shoots. And I like shooting the game. It's fast. I like the dynamic, like the ramps, the way they whip around and stuff like shooting the game brings me joy.
00:38:00
Speaker
So that's where it's like I have I genuinely think Pokemon is going to end up being a really good game because they got the biggest license on the planet. why would they not Why would Stern not invest as much as they can to flesh this game out and bring this code to be amazing?
00:38:18
Speaker
I'm not saying the code right now sucks. It's far from it. I'm i'm actually enjoying the code. I just know it's 0.81, and it's kind of it is shallow in a way. like There's only so much to do in the game right now. Yeah, I think the problem is is people are experiencing the game loop too much, like over and over and over again. You can get through that game loop pretty quickly right right and every game you know has some sort of game loop the problem is is that you don't want just a singular loop because when you do that that's when things could get old quick for somebody or something like that so like i get it you know it's been a couple of months so hopefully i think those things will get addressed you guys did you guys both go to the media or is it just you tom it was just me okay i was was the only one they liked remember they didn't invite joel
00:39:06
Speaker
Oh yeah. I forgot about that. So, but the thing, so it was probably right you can correct me if I'm wrong. Um, you might've got this Tom. I'm not sure. I know. Cause I was at the dealer day and I didn't go to media day, but at the dealer day, when they were telling us about the code and they were explaining it, they were adamant that this would have depth.
00:39:28
Speaker
for the above average player. I can't remember whether they said we had the whole conversation about this. I can't remember if they even said tournament player. I think they used the term expert player, that there would be plenty of depth in there. i And I think they will. I mean, the three coders they have on the game are freaking amazing.
00:39:46
Speaker
Right. So I think it's like you hear that. So, you know, that they have an idea with where it's going to go. Right. It's just, it's tough because in pinball, it's a little bit different than like a PC or a console game to where you sometimes get a roadmap, like a year out, like here's this,
00:40:04
Speaker
you know, this checkpoint or this milestone we're going to hit for this really, this is the, you know, the new DLC that we're planning on coming out of this new release that we plan on coming out, you know, for the life cycle the game. And we don't really ever get that with pinball.
00:40:16
Speaker
So it's always unclear. The only thing we do know is when we look at the inserts of the play field, we're like, oh, that's not being used yet. So that has to come into play at some point. So I guess the question becomes,
00:40:28
Speaker
when it does and i think pokemon obviously they're it's going to be selling for years and years i think it's going to be very similar to uh 2017 star wars that it's going to have like a seven to ten year life cycle most likely is that the le behind you joel no it's premium premium oh and it has the lights on it i put them in put them in we'll talk about it those are out I think, well, the interior expression lights are universal. okay They can be applied to any game. Gotcha.
00:40:58
Speaker
Here's a good question though on that premium. Does your left to return moonwalk at all? No, I haven't. No. I am so jealous. Mine in my studio, it moonwalks on me like 50% of the time. And I like just want shake the shit out of it and tell them, no, stop it.
00:41:12
Speaker
The game shoots great. Like I honestly, really, the game shoots yeah great. Yeah, the game shoots fine. i I don't have any qualms with it. beside So right now, you know i'm I'm not nearly as good of a player as the two of you guys, so I haven't seen this loop. There's essentially two paths you can go down for for Pokemon. It's either you you focus on playing all four modes. If you've played all four modes, then you shoot the Pikachu ramp and you get to the Charizard mode.
00:41:40
Speaker
And the Charizard mode, if you beat the other modes, then that adds a ball to your Charizard mode. So if you win two of the four modes, you're going to have, instead of it being a two ball mode, it becomes a four ball mode, yeah which is pretty cool. So like that was for a while when I was playing like that. It's like, all right, I'm just, I'm just focusing on modes. And then I will tell you, uh,
00:42:00
Speaker
catching Pokemon is addictive and it's it it's such it's such a good distraction. like i'm Here I am, I'm like, just focus, just get through this mode. And then it's like, boom, you can catch Pokemon. And I look up and I'm like, I like that Pokemon, that's Psyduck, I like that Pokemon. And so all of a sudden it's like, all my, it's just, I stop everything.
00:42:19
Speaker
And now I'm trying to catch a Pokemon real quick just because I want them in my collection. I want to. It's it's being recorded with. And I wish. Yes. Right now on the Insider Connected app, I can't show you my Pokedex. I can't show you my Pokemon. I want to.
00:42:31
Speaker
i want to show those off. But i see that. I'm like, I'm distracted. Sorry, squirrel. I want to catch it. I want to catch it. And then I drain. And it's like, ah, got you know, but once you get through the four modes, that's one one route you can go. You can go down that route.
00:42:44
Speaker
um Otherwise, the other route is you if you catch a Pokemon, it'll light a battle at the scoop. If you play a battle, win or lose, that's how you move on to the next area. So you start in the grass, then you would go into the the beach or the water area.
00:43:00
Speaker
That's furthest I've gotten. I've never gotten past water. Forest, then lake. There you go. Forest and lake. So green, then blue. Or you could say grass and water. It's fine. I've never gotten past that. So I don't know either of you. their view Is the next one mountain or plain? It would be yellow. Desert and mountain. does Have you gotten to either of those? I've gotten to desert, but I wasn't able to get it to go past that. So I'm not sure. I thought you could catch capture up to four Pokemon right now.
00:43:29
Speaker
Okay. But for whatever reason, I could not get it to go. I was just constantly like, it's like I got to the end there and then i ended up looping the game. three more times like just playing the modes the same four modes and then yeah going yeah so that's where i assume the depth is going to be right now the ev targets there's nothing there um i'm assuming they're going to add different modes you know once you've played four i'm assuming there will be four new modes i thought they mentioned before that they planned on having eight story modes i could have swore that they said that that would dealer day tom do you remember that to me media day
00:44:06
Speaker
No. like because I could have swore they said that. All I know is they showed you guys the topper and not us. not oh im just Which is supposed to be out.
00:44:18
Speaker
Yeah. It may not be a topper. They look cool. I don't know. So the team rocket area has four inserts. And as far as I know, none of those are used. And then the mini wizard modes in the middle, there are four inserts, one of which is Charizard. So that to me, it's like, there's clearly planned depth into this game. Of course. well so The Charizard one, it gets used though, I think, because it's Pikachu versus Charizard. But that's that's the mini wizard mode when you've played four modes. So I'm telling, it's like, okay, you're saying if I play four more, that's another one? Like, I don't know. but Another one. So it's... I'm excited. Like, I look at the game and honestly, and ah maybe it just makes me a shill, but, like, I don't get the hate. I don't quite get the hate. And I understand for some... Like, I was surprised.
00:45:06
Speaker
Jared and I are streaming the game and there's people in chat. Some people were very, like, this is great. I can't wait. I just played this. I love... Like, the one more game vibe, at least for me and my skill level, it had it. Because, like, when I drained, it was my fault. This game shoots. It's not like there's...
00:45:21
Speaker
I didn't have the moonwalk situation like you, Travis. Like, if I drained, it's my fault. I suck. I'm the one. So the one more game vibe is there. The game plays fast. But there are some people in my chat that are like, man, I'm so bored.
00:45:32
Speaker
Like, I'm bored out of my mind. Or like, and it's just like, okay, that's. And some people are like, which is better, Pokemon or Winchester? I'm like, that's that. These could not be more different. More different.
00:45:46
Speaker
And does that mean one is good and the other is bad? ah they are They could not be more different. Pokemon versus Winchester could not be. like Yeah, i I think the one thing that i like I personally, I can't speak for other people, but I try to be careful of that if I don't like a game in particular, i don't automatically assume that means it's bad.
00:46:11
Speaker
a because that's not fair to the game. Cause that just means like, I just know all. And if I don't like it, that automatically means that game's just a piece of shit. And that's not the truth, right? It's the game can still be very good or great or a lot of fun. It just happens to not be my cup of tea. So I think some people get that confused, right? so where sure if they think, you know, you know what I mean? So it's yeah like, you gotta be careful on that. You, you want to find,
00:46:37
Speaker
the good in a game, except for Thunderbirds. That game is like God awful. Like that game is truly awful, but so game it's it's harder to find the good. it's kind Sometimes it is. It's kind of like bond when it came out. Like I really liked the way it shot, but yeah there just wasn't, you know, you had like two villain modes and there was, there was was nothing there. There was there was nothing there. And I mean, Pokemon has stuff.
00:47:05
Speaker
Yeah. Like you remember one of the first videos, it was use the pop bumpers to get the points. do remember that. was like, i should I put this out or not? But I'm like, oh, that's where the points are.
00:47:18
Speaker
Jared and I streamed Bond. And honestly, I've told people it was one of the most painful streams we did because it it was that. Like there was no, there was a handful of things in the game, but there was there was nothing past that. So it's not like, oh, there's only two villain modes. But if you beat them both, then you get to experience this. There was nothing. It's just this wasn't the game. I've said this in the past. I think that really hurts a game on release. I was about to say that, Tom.
00:47:42
Speaker
Bond is a prime example. If Bond came out... Look at Dune. Look at Dune. Dune is amazing right now. But when it first came out, it was so bare bones. Yeah. it's Well, just taking James Bond just because I was like...
00:47:59
Speaker
in that like in it from the very beginning of having one the first games seeing where the rules are at trying to move the game because i don't know if you guys remember when it first got announced it was like such a weird announcement yeah i can't remember if that's when the queen died right and i can't remember if that's when the price initially jumped also i think the le prices jumped with that game if i'm remembering right i might be it was a few years ago but either way if that game released even at 75% of what it is today, oh yeah we're having an entirely different conversation that there's no telling how much that game would have sold. And I get it you know from a software standpoint that it's difficult to get these games to that point.
00:48:43
Speaker
yeah but But man, if somebody in the industry from any company can figure it out and do that consistently, Like, you're going to be cooking. You're going to be in a very good spot. It changes a lot. I think Spooky is the closest one.
00:48:59
Speaker
Maybe. They very well could be, and it shows. They sell their games out. So, you know. they I mean, at least at this point. Yeah. They're putting enough in a game on release that you're not looping it.
00:49:12
Speaker
And they they they dangle the carrot of... there is some depth. Like, i well, I say that currently in the game, at least when I streamed it, it's not there was no reward for playing X number of modes or x number of this. Like, that's that's the one thing I think is, the one thing that really helps with Pokemon right now is there is the Charizard mode is in it. If that wasn't in it,
00:49:34
Speaker
Then it would just be like, oh, we're starting another game. I played Bulbasaur and Squirtle last time. Well, let me try Charmander and Pikachu just for that. I don't think train. You can't even train yet, can you? I think it just adds 50,000 points to a mode or something like that. So it basically nullifies the stand-up targets on the left-hand side as of right now.
00:49:53
Speaker
Well, my challenge... So the people that... People that sit their keyboard and say, this game looks boring, or this game sucks, or blah, blah, blah, blah. My question number one, right, is... They're all tournament players. Yeah, the the tournament players are ruining this. So question number one that I have to these people are, have you played it?
00:50:11
Speaker
And if unfortunately, if you played it on location and it bad left orbit or this or that, like if you had a bad setup of a game, um that sucks. I agree, that sucks. But question number one, have you played it? And if you have played it,
00:50:23
Speaker
Have you looped it three times like Travis? Because I'm telling you, I streamed it for two hours and I only got to Charizard one time. Maybe because I suck. But like to me, I can't sit here and complain about the code being shallow when I hadn't seen all the code.
00:50:36
Speaker
Like i I hadn't seen all the code that was in the game. Now, sure, it only give gave me really two options. Like do I want to focus on moving to a new area or do I want to focus on getting to the Charizard? Like I only have that and it's very clear they're going to add a lot more in there.
00:50:50
Speaker
But even when I was focusing entirely on just those two options, those two paths, I only got to both of those paths one time, and they were in different games. Now, I've played it a bunch since, and I've gotten to Charizard multiple times since then. No achievement.
00:51:03
Speaker
Come on. Where's my insider? I got to get an achievement. No, there's no achievements yet. But it's like that to me. It's like if you were to sit here and tell me a game's shallow, well, have you have you seen all the code? have you And if you have... Okay, that's fine. It's.81. If you wait a little while, there'll probably be more. There'll probably be more to play. There's definitely going to be more. Well, I say that, and I am curious, Tom. You had it, and you've sold it. So what pushed over edge? What pushed you? was like, okay. I think it was just the code kind of thing, but it was honestly room. It was kind of one of those things. was...
00:51:42
Speaker
really bad timing. Like Winchester showed up and then like two days later, Pokemon showed up and I was like, Oh, great. And then so, um, but yeah, I, I might, you know, who knows, I might get a Pokemon down the road like I did, uh, uh, with X-Men, you know, I, I got X-Men right away and, uh, I ended up selling it right away and
00:52:14
Speaker
Later on, I just i picked up a used one. But, yeah, and now it's back, and I'm pretty confident going to stay for for a while. So I like the game and how it's changed. so ah But, you know...
00:52:30
Speaker
and that's And that's some risks you take as an early adapter. you you have to You have to know that, okay, this code isn't going to be here and I'm just going to have to wait it out.
00:52:43
Speaker
yeah And that's that's the reality of the business right now. I would say it was a risk if you had bought an LE. True. But the fact that you had a you could get pro. don't think anybody buying an LE right now is like, oh man, I took a risk.
00:52:58
Speaker
No, no, I'm just saying, I'm just saying when you- It will be easy for you you you. You had bought a pro, you played a pro, you sold a pro. It will be easy for you down the road to buy a pro. I think so, yeah. that should be that's That's a big difference than you buying Winchester and being like, I'm going to take a risk on it, and then you have for a month, and you're like, I don't know if it's a game for me. I'm just going to sell it.
00:53:20
Speaker
It might be hard for you to get that game back. Yeah. Very true. Very true. ah Travis, I'm glad you brought up Bond because honestly, that was... When I look back at that streaming experience early on, I just thought that I was like, this game, I just don't like it. And then and then I heard people over time just like...
00:53:38
Speaker
Bond is great. Bond is a great game. And I'm like, are you sure? Because I played it and it was not. And then I had a random week where Zach got an LE and on trade. We're like, all right, it looks like we're playing Bond.
00:53:50
Speaker
And Jared and I, neither of us were excited for that stream. We're like, yep, we're playing Bond. And then it just blew us away. We're like, this game is actually awesome. This game is awesome. And nothing, the play field didn't change. The shots didn't change.
00:54:04
Speaker
It's just the code. and Yeah. Yeah. I think too. So I think about this a lot, like probably just way too much. And i don't, I don't hear anybody talk about it, but here's the way my mind works. It's that if somebody has an opinion on something such as a game code layout, whatever,
00:54:23
Speaker
they're always gonna base that opinion based on their current knowledge base. And their current knowledge base is always gonna be affected by any variable that they have around them. So we take Tom, for instance, right? He's a prime example of this. He has ton of games in his basement. He's got some LEs and he has like all the top tier bangers, right?
00:54:46
Speaker
yeah So naturally, if you get a game n that doesn't come close to that, because that game's not fleshed out yet, yet these games are, it's going to get lost in the shuffle quickly. Whereas if that game shows up behind you, Joel, when you have four other options, it's highly likely you're still going to go back and play it over and over again. So...
Influence of Personal Experience on Pinball Perception
00:55:11
Speaker
situations like that, that might affect somebody's point of view or their opinion on something the same way that like if somebody is commenting during your stream, Joel, yeah about a game, they might be watching it, but maybe the only time they've ever played it was on location. And for all we know, that location could be somewhere that are just treated as an afterthought. Like there's no maintenance or anything. to Or maybe they never played it.
00:55:33
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. And they just they just see the theme and they're like, oh. Form an opinion based on, right you know, seeing somebody else play the game and not physically touching it.
00:55:45
Speaker
Yeah. And it's ah like, I can tell you, it takes a long time, years and years to really get to the point to where you could look at a pinball machine and be able to have a pretty good idea with how it's going to shoot before you shoot it.
00:55:58
Speaker
Like it it's like I'm barely there and it's taken me 10 plus years of playing every machine under the sun, watching videos nonstop. And it just takes a long time to kind of get that idea and that conceptualization. But I think that's, that's something to heavily consider. Like anytime anybody has an opinion on anything,
00:56:15
Speaker
It's like, where is that truly coming from? Like what point of view supports that based on their experience or based on games that they already have in their collection? like the same way. If this thing is the only thing I ever knew, right?
00:56:29
Speaker
And yeah i see Star Wars. all of a sudden with its LCD, as much as I load the LCD screens, I might be like, wow, this is freaking insane. I can watch the whole entire trilogy right now. And this sounds awesome and everything. So I think it just, it ultimately depends on,
00:56:46
Speaker
Like what is somebody's situation and how has that affected their perception of what pinball is? So when I see people that just love spooky games, right? And they don't necessarily like Stern games. It's like, i I'm always curious how they came to that conclusion. The same way if somebody just loves Jersey Jack games and they think barrels of fun games don't hold a candle to It's like, how did they come to that conclusion? Or if they're just complete Stern fanboys and they think,
00:57:14
Speaker
Everybody else is trash except for anything Stern puts out. How do they come to that conclusion? So I don't know. These are just like directions my brain goes and thinks about. So how do you know if i have it going man yeah I don't know if I have a comment beyond that. I just, I'm curious though, if you guys have ever considered that.
00:57:31
Speaker
i I mean, I definitely have. I think it's... so there was There was a video that NAP Arcade posted today, and it was a new... It's like a speakeasy pinball arcade.
00:57:42
Speaker
It was called like the Under under the Glass, I think is what it was called. and he And he was doing the walkthrough, and I didn't watch the whole video. Sorry, Jason. But I watched like the first minute, and the reason I stopped was it's like...
00:57:53
Speaker
It was literally Avatar CE. And then with an Avatar, like an Avatar tree next to it. And then it was Toy Story with ah with Toy Story toys next to it. And then it went to Elton John.
00:58:05
Speaker
And then it went to Guns N' Roses. And then it went to Godfather. And then it went to Pirates of the Caribbean. yeah And it was just like, who? owns this? like Who is the owner of this arcade that I don't know? ah That might have been it.
00:58:20
Speaker
Or I don't know if he turned around and then had a whole wall of Sterns. I probably should get watching the video. But like when you see, it's like somebody bought every single JJP game. like Clearly they are a JJP fan if they've invested and continue to buy these games. um So I don't know. I know I'm with... Yes, there are people I've met people in this hobby that they they are Stern fan boyss or jp fanboys or or...
00:58:44
Speaker
ah you know, P3 multamorphic is the best thing that pinball's made and everybody's missing out. Like, and that's, I, Hey, I'm, I'm not here to, to, to, uh, poo poo on whatever's exciting you. You know, like if you're passionate about something in pinball and you really love one company over the other, good for you.
00:59:03
Speaker
But, no reason to hate on all the other ones. No, well, you know, like everybody's gonna have their opinion. I think it's just important to have perspective on, okay, what, like, if you hear somebody's opinion, yeah think about why do they have their, that opinion? Like what has caused them to form that type of opinion. Like who do they have conversations with, with it? Or, you know, maybe it's just the voices in their head, like Randy Orton and they're just, you know, saying, we'll saying whatever it is. So i mean, that's perfectly fine, but voices Hey, uh, feel free to email us specifically, Tom at triple drain at gmail.com. And if you got a big opinion, if you got ah a strong opinion on something in pinball and you want to, you want to argue it or a voice it, uh, shoot us an email.
00:59:44
Speaker
You know, we like and Joel will tell you you're wrong. Yeah. So here's here's the other question then. We got to kind of circle back here. I meant to ask you two this question. Yeah. When we're talking about the game loop for Pokemon. po one How many different variations do you guys think that there is for the modes and for multiball?
01:00:06
Speaker
Okay. So to be able to play like whatever mode sequence, place your multiplier wherever you want and play your multiball, that team rocket, either stacked or naked.
01:00:18
Speaker
Like how many different variations do you think there could possibly be there? ah Wait, are you there's four modes and you're asking you either play the mode naked, how you say it, or you play it with a multi-ball? all you're asking? So you can stack it with three modes. you can't stack it. So eight variations.
01:00:35
Speaker
Right. And then how many variations would there be for sequences you could play the modes in? Since there's four of them. mean, you can play them in any order. Right. So how many variations would that be? Four times three two times don't know. I failed math. Something like that. Yeah. So I think I want to it's like, I want to say, yeah, it's like 24. And I think it becomes like 190 different variations or something like that.
01:00:59
Speaker
Like it it gets way up there. So what I'm getting at But why does it matter if you play Pikachu versus Charmander? Well, here's why it matters. Whenever, so the way that I get the most out of a rule set, a perceived shallow rule set, is I think about it in sequences.
01:01:16
Speaker
Because of course, if I play the same mode first every single time, and I only do that line, that variation, it could get boring because that's all I'm doing, right? But if I choose to mix it up,
01:01:31
Speaker
and try different sequences. yeah Like there's not one person on this planet that has mastered every single possible sequence like with that game. So it's kind of like you could you could challenge yourself in that way and say, okay, I'm gonna play this mode, but then I'm gonna put my multiplier over here because I know I wanna play this mode.
01:01:53
Speaker
And you just keep mixing that up over and over and over again. And then you can choose your stacks. So I think anybody that kind of writes something off early on, cause you could do that with any game across the board to where you could always go a different direction.
01:02:08
Speaker
and try something a little bit different. So I, I have three examples of that. One, i owned Simpsons pinball party for a long time. Some people think it's greatest game ever made. It's got crazy rules, got by ah all this stuff. Uh,
01:02:22
Speaker
ah Shout out to Buffalo Pinball and what is it? Mixer Tuna. It was the Tuna-torials. He used to do this guy. i used to do and He did a a tutorial for Simpsons. and In his tutorial, he's like, this is the path that I take to get to Alien Invasion because you got to play every mode.
01:02:40
Speaker
and It's like you do ride the bonorail. and Then while that's running, you do this and you do this and you do this. so What I realized was every single time I played that game, I was following that path, the path that he told me to play.
01:02:53
Speaker
And so by doing that, I played Ride the Monorail every single game. And i really and ah I realized it's unfair to the game because I got bored of it. I got bored of because I'm playing the same modes over and over again in the same order.
01:03:05
Speaker
And then I did the same thing with Guardians the Galaxy. When you can pick your character... For me to get to Cherry Ball Multiball, you have to beat four modes. So I kept playing the same four of eight modes that I knew I could beat.
01:03:16
Speaker
I didn't even touch the other modes. Joe, you ah I'm going to crush your soul for a second. Oh, please. That's exactly what a tournament player would do. I understand. That's because you guys don't have any fun. You guys have no fun in pinball.
01:03:29
Speaker
You don't care about fun. and You only care about points. that's That's the people have spoken. So I understand. i know that you take you have your path. But then my other example. So those two games I had and I sold because I realized I wasn't playing.
01:03:43
Speaker
i wasn't enjoying the game. i was enjoying the one path of the game. But my other example is Godzilla. Like, honestly, every time I've seen a tournament player play Godzilla, like I think it was Raymond or somebody, they were on stream with with me, with one of your streams, Tom, and they're like, all right, this is how they're going to do it.
01:04:02
Speaker
They're going to do this. They're going to do Gigan. While that's going on, it's going to start their multiball. They're going do multiball. Coming out of multiball, they're going to do this, and then they're going do that. And that is, it was like a four-step process, and that's exactly what they did. Yeah.
01:04:15
Speaker
So to me, I'm like, okay, you take one of the greatest games ever made, Godzilla, and if you are playing it in one path, that game's not going to feel so great. and might Maybe I'm wrong. maybe yeah I'm not going to speak for the tournament player, but i I know I can pick my path in Godzilla, but what I like about my path in Godzilla is like my first tier one battle, I like all the battles. So I i want to mix it up. like If I get sick of playing Gigan, I just I play a different one. I don't know. And so why...
01:04:44
Speaker
how Why does my mind work that well? Like, why do I give Godzilla the path the the the where I want to play them all? But yet, um ah um Simpsons or Guardians, no, I just stuck to the one path. And that and that wore the game out.
01:04:59
Speaker
I think it's, it's important that you recognize that when it's happening. And I think there's a lot of people out there that don't recognize that and they end up selling themselves short on their opportunity of exploring a game or having fun with a game more.
01:05:13
Speaker
And it's not to say they, I mean, they might be correct with their first assessment, but I think too, like I've caught my own self doing that sometimes where I'm just like, okay, This game is just like, i'm not it's not clicking, it's not doing anything. And then I just decide, okay, to hell with it. I'm gonna ignore these shots completely and I'm only gonna do these shots and see if I can't find something fun with it that way. And that's helped me a lot through certain games that might not have been clicking with.
01:05:38
Speaker
Do you prefer games where you pick your mode versus like so my two examples x-men you you light a mode you pick your mode so i know people the path right now a lot of people are playing the the sentinel factory first the rogue mode because that gives them the addable right so that's that's like everybody's doing that first So Turtles, no, you don't pick your mode. Now you can hit the targets next to the ramp to change your mode. So technically you can pick your mode, but I don't think people, that's a dangerous shot. So I think, I don't think people spend too much time trying to get to the exact mode and then starting their mode. I think they just play whatever mode's given. Which one do you prefer in Pinball?
01:06:20
Speaker
I go back and forth because I like the idea of how Jaws and the walking dead are that you pick out a specific shot that has a mode tied to that shot. Right. you can plan it. And I do like the idea of picking your modes too.
01:06:33
Speaker
What I do wish existed because the game can get very linear either way. Okay. Right. Like you could still pick the same shot, just like Pokemon. You could just pound away at the left ramp and you'll eventually be in squirtle.
01:06:46
Speaker
You know, you could, Yeah. Hound away at the, at the scars ramp and jaws, you'll play scars. But what, what I wish somebody would do, and maybe somebody has done this already. I'm just not aware of it, but I wish games that had you pick your mode would have it to where you could double your score, but the mode is random. Like you don't know what mode it's going to be. ah That you're just, yeah. You just pick the question mark. It randomizes and you may get one. That's really good.
01:07:16
Speaker
Tournament players don't like random, Travis. Hey, i'm but i'm here for I'm here for fun, not to win world championships. So, you know, there's something like that. i like I find it interesting that if you can create a chaotic game, but it's chosen chaos. It's not chaos just for the sake of being chaotic. It allows somebody to take control and say, you know what? I'm driving a bus. I'm going to drive this mofo right off a cliff because that's where I want to go. so i like it i i like the idea.
01:07:46
Speaker
I wish something could happen like that. or Or we just put one target in the middle of the play field that ends your whole entire game. so think I think that'd be great. Foo Fighters. I streamed Foo Fighters. had a blast. God, I had a blast on Foo Fighters. And um those have unique modes. And i i those all those modes are...
01:08:03
Speaker
I don't know. didn't care about score, but it's like, I just, I played them all because they're all fun. i didn't, it's not like I followed one path, but in, so Ray code that in. Why don't you wear it? You either pick your city or there's the option to escape, or you give me another option of like drive blind. I don't know. Or just like surprise me. And even if it adds, you know, uh, 5% to your overall score,
01:08:28
Speaker
I would probably be picking that every time just because like I enjoy all these modes. So just give one to me. Well, something like that be hilarious. Like it it adds a slight increase to your score, right? But then it decreases the amount of time you have to complete it.
01:08:42
Speaker
Oh, you're making it hard. i don't want it hard. Well, like there's like risk reward, you know? Okay, yeah. so Elwin kind of touched base on this. and I think, Tom, you might be more familiar with these modes than what Joel would be, but the the Kong modes. um The New York modes. New York City modes, yeah. So familiar, Travis. Choose your own adventure. Yeah, like something like that. It's it's just like, why can't we have something like that?
01:09:08
Speaker
at the start button. Like, why can't that just automatically be implemented with the modes, like at the at the very front, your tier one modes, your first modes, whatever you're playing, that you can make those choices automatically. kind of um yeah I was, two other examples I thought of, like Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice kind of just presents you with a mode, but theoretically you can hit, I forget which shot it is, one of the shots, oh, it's the it's on the far left. One of the stand-up targets, if you hit it,
01:09:37
Speaker
it'll change to your next mode. So Dune does something similar. and tells you what your prophecy mode is, but then if you hit the left orbit, well, if you hit the orbit, either direction, you can either go up or down. So you can select your mode that way. But and maybe it's because I'm lazy, but it's like, oh, it's telling me I'm going to play whatever training for Dune. It's like, nah, I'll just play it. I'm not going to, I'm going to sit here and change it with my orbit. I like the wick lights out mode.
01:10:04
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Double scoring and it's easy to start. Hmm. Can't see shit, but we want, okay. So we want, we want the hybrid. We want to be able to pick the mode, but give us the option to give us a random mode.
01:10:19
Speaker
Not just the, yeah just, just something that rant just something different. Like, I don't know. Like, cause how about like you start a mode and then it's like, it's like you choose your mystery award kind of thing.
01:10:34
Speaker
ah Like there'd be like eight things you could just choose what you want to stack with that mode. Yeah. So there's there's something similar to that that I think would be cool. I think being able to choose whether or not you can do like a, like for instance, if you do qualify like kind of like in Avengers or even i guess Kong with the Island locks, you qualify an extra ball to be during a mode, but maybe you can choose to bypass that and wait to use it for whichever mode you want to do it. But if you bypass using it,
01:11:09
Speaker
then maybe there's a slight reduction in points and time, something. Like there's some kind of nerf on you not using it. So like risk-reward. Maybe you get more points for not using yeah that's the risk-reward. But if you drain, then you then you then you lose your ball.
01:11:28
Speaker
Yeah. You lose your locked ball. I'm trying to think of more games. Winchester, it's the exact opposite of like you choose your path through the house based on the shots you hit.
01:11:41
Speaker
And the only choice you're making is do you enter the room or do you keep walking? Keep going. And if you keep going, it increases the value when you get to finally play the mode, which is like, all right, that's pretty creative. But you're still, you're picking your path. So I'm curious. I mean, Carl's a smart enough guy that he's going to try to make it so there's not one obvious path. You're always planning this, then this, then this. think there's any way to do this to where points aren't affected at all? It's just more or less like,
01:12:08
Speaker
progression which therefore would probably affect the points anyways on its own like maybe maybe it just creates a situation to where it's more shots to get through it or maybe it creates a situation to where the shots stay on a preferred shot more often like something that's not too over complicated towards too confusing for the player but it's just like little subtle changes to mode like little tweaks well you could do yeah you could Yeah, you could easily do if you go with the, you know, Foo Fighters, if you go with the city provided, it's 75% less shots or like just automatically or, you know, shortcut or something like that.
01:12:50
Speaker
You could that with anything. i'm I mean, I'm i'm realizing you like. it Do you remember when I told you to cover up the score when you were streaming? Yeah. And you didn't do it?
Advancements in Pinball Technology and Design
01:13:00
Speaker
I didn't do it because the score is not on. It would be very easy to cover up the score on like TNA because it's just it's there. That would be very easy. But I realize more and more games are maps now, you know, like D&D is a whole map. You are picking a path. You're picking a journey. Jurassic Park, you're picking a journey.
01:13:16
Speaker
So some people, ah oh, yeah, if you're just if you're just trying to grind to the end, just stay on the edge. But if you want points, you're going to, you know, hop in the middle or you're going to get. wasn't it it's like t-rex gives you an extra ball or so so it's that's really cool that i go yeah if extra balls are turned off yep um which who turns those off you tournament people because you're crazy you guys make poor choices i just do it to get ready for tournaments i know i'm just i'm the voice the people tom i'm just hearing this don't have time joel to play two-hour game of modern pinball in our basement two hours two hour games that is true Uh, we have, I mean, I know Ray. know Ray listens. This isn't, I'm not just, I know Ray listens. I know Gieski listens. Carl, obviously Dwight.
01:14:02
Speaker
Somebody, if whoever's listening, tell us why these are bad ideas, please. Um, when I mentioned the whole, that there should be a mode where you hit a target and it kills your flippers. There were people that reached out. There were people that reached out told, told me why it was terrible idea. So, uh, that's fine.
01:14:17
Speaker
That's fine. and My inbox is going to be flooded. hit Tom Grift. Yep. Uh, Yeah, but it's just a thought. It's a thought to to make things to make things interesting and to keep those those those pathways i going. The important thing about having conversation and ideation and coming up with everything, you never want to say no. It's just always you say whatever idea you have, no matter how horrible it is. And then you try to build off it. It becomes and then what?
01:14:45
Speaker
and then what? So it's kind of like you take your target idea, right? So it kills the game and then what? Like what happens after that? And then you laugh and you have a great time.
01:14:57
Speaker
i Oh, bummer. I hit the target. i know We're not opening that can of worms again. Bummer. My game's dead. What fun. I think the more we talked about it, it shouldn't kill. It shouldn't end your ball. if It should be a mode that either kills your flippers and then spits out another ball. i Like it's unique to the mode. that I will admit we talked to a couple of high level designers slash software people, and we did figure out a way for it to actually work because we didn't just flat out just say no Yeah. We laughed at first and we're like, Joel, you're an idiot, but let's, let's work with this. And we did come found way with, with, I think is a solid idea personally, and I hope it gets implemented.
01:15:41
Speaker
And we're not going to say what that idea is publicly or to anybody else. I just hope it actually shows up someday in a pinball machine. So I think it's actually, it would actually be funny and cool. ah um Okay.
01:15:52
Speaker
Other topics. If it's not obvious, we have no we have no list. We no list. We're just going. We're just riffing. This is Tom, why is your game not on behind you? You always have your games on. I can't afford the electricity because I got to put a riff on my house. Remember, he's running on backup power because he thinks he's running on backup power. actually using my streaming battery to run my computer right now. Oh, nice. Nice. Okay. um touche if you look at pokemon behind me it has the expression lights yes so uh this is spike three right spike three came out we all we all had ideas of what it could be all this stuff yeah spike three is here it's not a star wars thing i know that was people thought like oh spike three that's part of star wars right no
01:16:42
Speaker
uh it's droid i've said it before the i love the screen the screen truly is nicer than the spike spike 2 screen by a mile like the blacks are darker it's bigger it's a great screen uh with that said i was very curious about the cabinet i was super curious about the cabinet and and what that was gonna feel like i'm i go I want to hear it. I want to hear what you have to I've heard 50-50 on this. I'm curious which side of the fence you're on with this one. um
01:17:14
Speaker
Okay. When it comes to like, I'm not going to sit here and see if I can break it, right? so ah You didn't do the stress test of jumping on it? I mean, I understand the holes in the front that the legs slightly cover. I know that's a little like there are some things that are different. I understand there are things that are different.
01:17:31
Speaker
But I installed these interior expression lights and that install was so easy. Like it was. Was it breeze? It honestly was so easy. it was It was very clear that, I'm assuming Gomez, i actually reached out to Gomez. i
Discussion on Turner Pinball and Industry Trends
01:17:49
Speaker
said I think he was the one who did it, but whoever designed that,
01:17:53
Speaker
is It was brilliant. um the The entire rails, the entire the side rails, they essentially just sit on top of the cabinet sides.
01:18:07
Speaker
And they don't just sit vertically. They actually, like their main force of it sits on top, but there's there's four posts that slide into four holes on the on the cabinet on each side, and it's held on with four screws. That's it. So it's like you can you can take those rails off without having to take the play field off. That was the thing with the old expression lights.
01:18:28
Speaker
You essentially had to take the entire play field out of the cabinets. And if you remember, cause I had to do this with Led Zeppelin, they did not in the initial instructions, it did not tell you, no you were going to have to do that. And it was a pain in the ass. Once we got to the point that we realized we would have to do that. i did it with work.
01:18:48
Speaker
I did it with Wick. I did it actually with Wick and with Zeppelin. Did you know that you were going have to remove the playfield? Like when you started? I figured that you can't bend it. Yeah. Yeah. Like I just distinctly remember I was in the middle of trying to do it and I got to the point that like, this isn't working. What do you have to do? And then I finally figured Yeah.
01:19:07
Speaker
Yeah. That's exactly what I did. that did I mean, it is pretty impressive that you can take a Stern play field out by disconnecting like three things. And then you just have to lift it up and hope um that you don't mess it up. but Break anything. yeah I've done it on two games.
01:19:23
Speaker
It sucked. But this, what I mean, honestly, was so easy. And it's and it's really impressive how you you and you unscrew those four screws on the side and you slide it out to the side. And then the whole, the channel that the glass goes in, the expression light channel, all of it, it comes out.
01:19:41
Speaker
And then there's six little screws you unscrew. And then you see this formed plastic piece. And part of it is the glass channel. And then the other is this is where you'll slide in your LED rail. And if you had expression lights for the outside, you would end up replacing it with new our new side ah metal blades that are going to be custom cut.
01:20:01
Speaker
And you'll slide in another LED strip. So honestly, the install, the most annoying part of the install is just... running the wires, which is easy, but then connecting, there's like 12 of those ferrite cores, magnetic like clip-on ferrite cores that you clip on to different parts of the wire to make sure it cuts out any sort of interference.
01:20:22
Speaker
So I filmed the tutorial. it's Zach's going edit it and upload it. But I was super impressed, like honestly super impressed with how easy that is And um it adds a ton. It adds a ton to the game. And I hope that's something that Stern obviously keeps doing is is making great light shows for the Expression Light speakers. I don't have any in this game.
01:20:41
Speaker
But the Expression Lights in the game, honestly, as as easy as that install is, worst case, if you buy the game, have a set, put them in. If you go to sell the game, take them out. Like, it's just, it's so easy. It's so easy to put them in and take it out. You could probably do that in 30 minutes or less.
01:20:57
Speaker
Maybe 45. mean... But it's its it was it was painless. So I was just really impressed. Really impressed that that is... i think I think the screen is a huge improvement. I think that alone, the fact that expression lights are going to be a part of every game and the install is that easy, is an amazing upgrade.
01:21:16
Speaker
The durability side of it, I can't speak for. i It seems okay. I really... i don't know. What are the... complete Like, what are you... I mean, that's just, yeah. I mean, it's, like I said, it's 50, 50. I think I lean more towards what you're experiencing that the only way that you know, that is by doing it, which is getting, you know, new, um, accessories to put in. Right. And something, something that shows why the cabinets are the way that they are to ease of,
01:21:46
Speaker
you know, putting those accessories in. So I think that's important to kind of, to point out for people, but, um but yeah, I've, we've heard some complaints just based on how they see the cabinet compared to how the spike two cabinets were.
01:22:00
Speaker
And I get it. I mean, it is different, but, I don't know. I don't have a feeling either way towards it. So I was just curious to hear what you thought when you started on the cabinets. Cause I've just, I've heard it both directions, but you went the good direction that you were talking about how it's actually beneficial and here's why. So if the cabinet was worse,
01:22:21
Speaker
I'm assuming we would have a lot more reports of broken games. that's That's what I think. We haven't heard anything about that. I think it's just people just being jarred by it being different than what they've seen in the past.
01:22:36
Speaker
I think that's really what it is. Different and assuming it was different in a cheaper way. But honestly, I think I just don't want to discredit the engineering that was put into this cab to actually make improvements. The expression light rails are a huge improvement.
01:22:54
Speaker
if that's not your thing if you don't care about blinky lights sorry but it is it is awesome um and the bigger
Potential New Themes in Pinball Games
01:23:00
Speaker
screen is awesome i know travis hates lcds so he probably hates it but um it makes it makes me think gtf was the true first spike three the the way that we described the spike three system was like the lights are really bright and the oh lcd is huge And for the very small community of us that do pinball streaming, one, we need to make better choices with our lives. And two, the the one, the one HDMI output is the greatest thing. It's so so much easier. Yeah, to do all that. So I'm super impressed with with Spike 3 and the future that. But when it comes to like, it is funny. I mean, I've moved enough games in and out of in and out of it that that you can tell like a Stern game feels lighter than the rest.
01:23:47
Speaker
compared to you, like, I remember moving, um what was it, like Harry Potter, in and out of the game. It's like, that game is a tank. Like, not a tank. Maybe I i don't mean a tank as it's the build quality is, no. it's But then you, I remember moving, like, Funhouse remake, and it was like, why does this game weigh so much? Like, this game, like, that is, so there's, yeah, there's certain games that are just, they just weigh a ton. And I don't know if if that is just,
01:24:15
Speaker
Oh, this weighs a ton, which means it's higher quality. I don't i don't know if that's necessarily... It just means you need to work out more, Joel. That's what it is. is well All these pins feel light to me. i don't know what your problem Another thing that we can talk about. i just feel like we've got to give the listeners you know some some length here because it might be four months before we record again. Yukon Yeti. I have not played it. Have either of you played it?
01:24:41
Speaker
Oh, yes. 75 times. seventy five times All right, listeners, here comes the link. We weren't at TPF. None. i have not played it. No, none of us have played it, but I will be, i am.
01:24:54
Speaker
You'll be streaming. Were you surprised? Were you surprised? No, I'm just, so we weren't at TPF, but what I heard, it's like, what's what's the what are people saying? People are at TPF. What are people saying? look great I heard people talk about, they're like, Pokemon is cool.
01:25:10
Speaker
it shoots It shoots quick. i mean that was about it uh a lot of people play beetlejuice they're like beetlejuice is super immersive and why aren't spooky so buying you know selling more of them like there was a lot of praise but a game that that people talked a lot about was yukon yeti and i just i've been there for the ninja eclipse release i've been there for the merlin's arcade release I think it's cool what Turner Pinball is doing. I just feel like it's very unique what they're doing, and I feel like they have a very unique market that they're selling for.
01:25:44
Speaker
i just feel like a lot of Turner Pinball machines end up in collections where these are pinball enthusiasts with a lot of games, and they just want something different. So they're going to try giving Turner a chance. like That was the type of people... it just I there was no but like I've never had a buzz about Ninja Eclipse. I never had a buzz about Merlin's Arcade, but there's a there was a legit buzz coming off of Yukon Yeti and in people having a really good time on that game.
01:26:11
Speaker
And and that surprised me. I wasn't expecting that. And I don't what are your thoughts on that? Do you I don't think it's sold out. I haven't heard it sold out, so it hasn't sold 500 something, but I know it's sold at least 250 because they said over half are sold.
01:26:24
Speaker
um Does that surprise you that this game is being received the way it is? is is is Whitewater that beloved That's what Travis is shaking his head to. Yeah. I mean, it's, well, I mean, it's not like pinball enthusiasts know what whitewater is. So there's a basis for understanding where this theme comes from. So it might be like a spiritual successor of it, but people are able to make that connection. So I think that's smart regardless. Um, yeah, I've watched gameplay to it a little bit and it's, I mean, what, what's the first thing I told you guys when it first came out,
01:26:59
Speaker
Like within about an hour, i was just like, i you know, I wasn't sure in terms of just looking at the geometry and some of the shots. And I'm still not sure. But, but i you know, I'm willing to give it a try whenever I do get a chance to play. I think the the ball lock system looks pretty cool, though.
01:27:17
Speaker
mean, I don't know if I enjoy it like dumping all down the middle like I saw in a few videos. But I don't know if that's intentional or... Or what, but I mean, overall, I think layout's fine. I just, the upper play field kind of scares me a little bit though. Like, I don't think it's, I don't know if it's as good as the original whitewater upper play field. I think it might not be as good actually, if I'm just being honest. Same designer, you know, I don't think his foam core has improved over the years.
01:27:48
Speaker
Hmm. Does Nordman do? Oh, he's a phone core guy. Oh yeah. He did GTF. i don I don't know. I'm just stating facts.
01:27:59
Speaker
There is a GTF. I mean, I will say that Yeti is a nightmare fuel though. You don't like the way you don't like the way he looks. Have you looked at the way he looks? I do, and I'm surprised. it Brad Dukes or is it Matt Andrews? It's Brad Dukes.
01:28:15
Speaker
Brad Dukes is the artist. good I don't know. I'm saying that confidently, and I hope I'm right. um it's they have They have hired him. He was the guy that did, I think he had done Looney Tunes.
01:28:28
Speaker
And he did something else. And he's a very talented artist. But um yeah, he is the full-time. I'm not even talking about the art. I'm talking about just the sculpt of it.
01:28:39
Speaker
The sculpt of the Yeti. Oh. scal Have you looked at the sculpt? It's Brad Duke. Brad Duke. Like, look at the sculpt. Here, I'll send you guys a screenshot right now.
01:28:50
Speaker
Okay. Yeah, I did. Okay, was right. Since I'm the only one here. Okay, I'm seeing the art. I'm okay with the art. I don't have... Nobody Oh, the sculpt. Oh, the smile. Oh, you see it now. Yeah. So one of the things heard, so this is, I say, uh, eclectic gamers podcast. If you haven't had enough Dennis, listen to eclectic gamers podcast, Dennis and Tony, they're great.
01:29:16
Speaker
They are great. And, um, I have something to say about Dennis, but ah but they played Yukon Yeti. They enjoyed it. They enjoyed it. One of the things they said was that ball lock, though, it's pretty slow.
01:29:29
Speaker
So it's one of those, it may look pretty awesome the first few times, but after a while, you're going like, can you just get up the mountain? Did you just send Joel the photo? Because I do not see it. No, I pulled it up myself. i in it Sorry. I'll send it to you. Oh.
01:29:42
Speaker
I fully said the last minute of my life. They said some some good stuff about Yukon Yeti, but they had somebody write in and basically say, i think this game, i think Yukon Yeti looks awesome, but...
01:29:53
Speaker
the art is getting some hate. And so the question is, do you think they'd change the art? Which this is Brad Duke. It's, it's Turner pinballs, full-time artists. Like he's, he, I don't, I don't know. Maybe he takes feet. Like what, what part, I don't think he's going to redesign the whole art package. That doesn't make any sense. Like, I don't have any issues with the art, but there's some people maybe thinking it's too, I don't know, childish or whatever. i I, I don't have any issues that, but I feel like I've seen this somewhere. Like not,
01:30:24
Speaker
Well, it's the same art style as Ninja Clips. It's the same art style as Merlin's Arcade. It's the same artist. I kind of like how Zombie Eddie has ah he has a a... That is Zombie Eddie art. You know, or um Dirty Donny, or...
01:30:39
Speaker
Yeah, Johnny Crap. like they They can all have their things. um But so somebody had asked, would they change the art? And then somebody else asked, would they change the music? Like the music seems ah cheap or shallow or like they need they need more audio. So the art's hard to change. The music, that is something that that's code. That's something that I think could improve. So maybe with sales, they would invest and it would be... The more that I play pinball and the more that I stream, having and um somebody great...
01:31:07
Speaker
doing your sound package ah can really elevate a game quickly. Like Jeff with Dirty Pool, his barrel of fun sound packages, both Dune and Winchester are amazing. And then he just redid Labyrinth.
01:31:18
Speaker
um You have, ah holy cow, why can I not think of the guy? He did Alien and he did Pulp Fiction and he did, can't think of the guy.
01:31:30
Speaker
People are probably screaming it out there. The sound guy. The sound guy. David Thiel? Is that what you're trying to say? Yes, David Thiel. Yes, because he did Hobbit. He did, like, there's some amazing guys. And then Stern has... um Is it not Jeremy? Why am I? Can't think of a name? Jerry chery Thompson.
01:31:49
Speaker
That guy. Yes. Like those three. Great. I'm sorry, everybody. i struggle. I barely, I don't know anything. but I just talk. I just Let's just shit on EM some more. Let's go back that direction. no who Do they do anything with sound? Oh, no. They have freaking bells and chimes. Oh. Yeah. which just Let me crap on Dennis Creasel. Let me crap on Dennis Creasel. I like Dennis Creasel. He's a great guy.
01:32:10
Speaker
ah so Same as Tony. they did They did a review of all the games that they played, and there was a bunch games they hadn't played before. They played King Kong for the first time. And you know what they said about King Kong? They said King Kong was forgettable.
01:32:28
Speaker
Forgettable. That's what Dennis Grisel said. I mean, that's it. That's her that's a fair assessment. Everybody's allowed to say that. yeah Everybody's allowed to have that. But that was one of those, I heard it and I was just like- I forgot what I ate for dinner.
01:32:43
Speaker
Joel, are you about the white knight for Keith Elwin? Is that where this conversation going? No, understand that people are like, that's blasphemous, it's Keith Elwin. But they were like, and the way they defended it, they're like, don't get me wrong. It's a great, like, the layout. It's Keith Elwin game. This is going to be a top 50 game easy.
01:32:59
Speaker
But they looked at it as when you compare King Kong to Beetlejuice to Winchester to Dune to Yukon Yeti, even the games they i hadn't played before.
01:33:10
Speaker
Like, they're like, honestly, our one game of King Kong was forgettable. Like, there's other, these other games made a more lasting impression than their game on King Kong.
01:33:22
Speaker
So it's like, well, okay. Okay, I can, i can understand that. But ah King Kong's been out long enough. Tom, I know you own one. Yeah. Do you, what are your overall thoughts? Like, is this a top three Elwin? Is this a mid tier? Is this mid?
01:33:38
Speaker
Is this a low tier Elwin? Is King Kong not getting love it deserves? Is it what? Yeah, I don't think it gets the love it deserves. um I think it's a good game.
01:33:51
Speaker
don't I don't know. You always put me on the spot, Joel. I don't have it. i I want to play it more. That's a game I want to stream more. I think it's like a top three, Owen, in my um three um humble opinion.
01:34:07
Speaker
but Do you want to list those three? No, I don't. don't want to put you on the spot. Because I don't really give a crap about lists.
01:34:16
Speaker
I'll say I think the layout on Kong is probably his best layout. so how can you How can it be the best layout, but yet somebody can play it, it's forgettable?
01:34:26
Speaker
like that's it's just It's just like we talked about. just people Different strokes for different folks. Joel, you want every game to be like Legends of Zelda where there's no score. and Travis wants to...
01:34:38
Speaker
travis wants to you know I mean, some people want to buy an X-Men and just hit the middle ramp over and over again. Like, that's perfectly fine, Joel. You don't have to do that anymore, Travis. Why can't you do that? You'll never get to save the city doing that. i was just It's different strokes for different folks. Like, it's it's perfectly fine. But I think... If I had like one major critique of King Kong and I think really what it boils down to is it's a type of game that the theme is very forgettable for the vast majority of people. People like King Kong just does not resonate. It doesn't hit the same way as say like a Godzilla, right? Yeah.
01:35:18
Speaker
Like, I don't think I distinctly remember this when I was younger. me and my friends, there would be two franchises that we would have slumber parties. cool you had friends. Oh, yeah, it was awesome. Yeah, it was awesome. I mean, my mom probably like baited them into like just said, you know, hey, I'll give you ice cream or something. either way.
01:35:37
Speaker
So... Whenever we'd have like get togethers and slumber parties and all that, there would be two franchises that we would always get the VHS. Okay. Take it back three. One of them, nobody probably even knows, but there's a couple that everybody knows.
01:35:51
Speaker
Godzilla was one of them to where we'd watch like all the different Godzilla. So everybody from my generation, just at least around Oklahoma, they enjoyed Godzilla. Like we'd all talk about we all play it. Sure.
01:36:02
Speaker
The other one was Rocky. Like that one, like you get, you get a bunch of preteen boys back then. we were like, fuck yeah. We're kicking the nation's ass. Yeah. And then the other one was, we wear sweats all the time. Yeah. Yeah. course And then the other one was a puppet master. You guys remember that one?
01:36:21
Speaker
No. Remember that horror movie? too That's why I wasn't going to that, but somebody out there knows. But what I'm getting at is, what I'm getting at is, is nobody has a slumber party watching King Kong. All right. Nobody did. Godzilla.
01:36:34
Speaker
No, that's it. Yeah. Just, yeah. Just one. And you know what? We all cheered when King Kong got his ass
Importance of Theme and Engagement in Pinball
01:36:40
Speaker
whooped and it was blasphemous that they allowed King Kong to even win that. it was so dumb. Spoiler alert, if you haven't watched the 1970s version, but still it was just, it was so dumb, but. So it's just a forgettable license. That unfortunately is on a great pinball machine. I personally think that's what's happening with that. I i mean, just based off the feedback we hear and everything else, which it I get. I mean, it doesn't mean that there's not King Kong fans out there. It's not Pokemon.
01:37:07
Speaker
I think that's... What would happen if you put Keith Elwin on a crazy theme? I'd retire. Like a crazy theme. What would there be to do? Like a Star Wars, a Pokemon. Give him the big... What if Keith Elwin had Harry Potter? Give him the big... But everybody kind of crapped on that because in the movie. Because it wasn't the movie. It wasn't the movie, Jurassic Park.
01:37:31
Speaker
Yeah, that one too. I think if, and this is no slight this is no slight against John Borg at all, but i just, i know for a fact that if Elwin would have done Star Wars pen, it's probably selling close to the same amount as Godzilla.
01:37:48
Speaker
Like I guarantee based off every metric I've seen off you know, all the big collectors we've talked to that don't frequent message boards or anything like that. It's like they, they've become aware of who Elwyn is just because they buy, you know, the LEs and they get familiar pretty quick. And so, well, they just, but Kong was the first one that didn't move the needle for him. And was because of the theme, because that's what they're looking at first.
01:38:15
Speaker
If, if Elwyn would have been on Star Wars, that means we would Rick Nagel, but instead we got stuck with Ray Day. So the sales just, yeah. Way up. It's... Sorry, Ray.
01:38:27
Speaker
it's It's crazy because i would be i'd be so curious what the interpretation would be across the board from every design team and every software team of having the same theme. Like, obviously, that will never happen.
01:38:39
Speaker
Yeah. But I'm always curious because I like the direction that Ray's taking. Star Wars. What's that? saw Steve Ritchie, Dwight Sullivan, Star Wars. And now we have yeah John Borg, Ray Day, Star Wars. And they couldn't be more different no than each other. They couldn't be more different. so i That's interesting. Yeah.
01:38:58
Speaker
Yeah. That is interesting for sure. um What else we got? I'm curious. We got to lengthen. We're lengthening. Glurp, glurp. That's all going to say. Glurp, glurp.
01:39:10
Speaker
ah We got Dungeon Crawler Carl. We got a Dungeon Crawler Carl rumor going. Oh, that did come out we after this. We got a dungeon crawler carl Dungeon Crawler Carl rumor going. And I'll lead with this. I don't like to read.
01:39:24
Speaker
I don't like reading books. I don't know if Travis can read, honestly. but I'm pretty sure I can Monica! Read this. No, but with all that said, i got to give a shout out to Becca. Becca got ah she got Carl, our good friend, Carl D'Angelo involved in Dungeon Carl. Carl and Carl recommended these books to the three of us.
01:39:48
Speaker
And I'm in a book club with my wife's family. And I i just I do audio books. I listen to one ah a one a month. And I was like, you know what, fine. I need something besides a freaking romance drama. I need something that gets me going. And I and i gave it a shot.
01:40:04
Speaker
And here I am. i listen all seven books. I can't wait for book eight. it's It's an awesome and fun, enjoyable franchise. I know Travis is hooked. Tom, I don't think you got as hooked as Travis and I. I started listening to it and i was in Chicago traffic and I got really pissed off and then i was it was bothering me so I couldn't listen to it anymore and I'd throw some music on. But I did enjoy like the first couple hours I listened to.
01:40:36
Speaker
Well, you got a long trip. You've only listened to two hours of book one? No, I think I listened to like three or four, but literally like it was like a six hour trip. What? Have you ever driven in rush hour in Chicago? It sucks. No, Monica does that. I don't drive. Monica does that. That's why I don't live there anymore. you should give it more you should keep going uh you got another long trip ahead of you uh people listening to this and you're like what are you talking about it's a lit rpg a literature role-playing game type book and it's it's if you're looking it's crude i'll tell you that it's kind of graphic it's got profanity and it's it can be gross at times but it's hilarious
01:41:19
Speaker
it's oh yeah It's legit. it was It's one of the best book series I've ever listened to. It's got an amazing storyline and it's growing. it's growing the the like The following of Dungeon Crawler Carl is growing. ah It's becoming a big thing at the different conventions and whatnot. I think it's Paramount just picked up or one of the TV channels just picked up they're going to make the the books into a live ah action show. So it's I think it's going to be a big franchise. The rumor is there is somebody out there that has that theme for pinball.
01:41:50
Speaker
um My question would be like assets at this point. I mean, there's But there's nothing visual.
01:42:01
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I've seen some like art representations of the characters stuff. That's about it. That's like the only approved art, technically approved art for the series. I thought there was like a graphic novel coming out or something like that.
01:42:17
Speaker
yeah There's a few different things. Am I making that off? No, there's a spinoff coming. Yeah. it's It's a deep, rich world. I think I've, I've listened to the first book now four and a half times.
01:42:30
Speaker
and I've heard, I've heard every book twice and I'm trying to listen, go through my third time now It's really fun. Yeah, it's it's a great series. And then, what, the eighth book comes out in less than a month now? Yeah, I am all in on the audio book only, though, just because they have one guy that performs all the voices, and he is incredible. And so that was the thing. um His name is Jeff Hayes, I think is his name. yep They already mentioned that...
01:42:58
Speaker
He is going to do the audio. So for him to be on board, that's huge. That is huge. That's like getting Daniel Ratcliffe in Harry Potter. That is huge. So to me, whoever's making this game, I don't even need an LCD screen. Like I don't need you to make characters and movie clips or anything. ah You can go Pulp Fiction and just go all audio. I'm okay with that.
01:43:20
Speaker
um I think this has a really big following and I'm super curious to hear who has this. There's a lot of rumors out there. Is this a big enough license for Stern? Doubtful.
01:43:30
Speaker
Is this big enough fight for license for JJP? Doubtful. Do I think Barrels of Fun has this? I don't. I don't think they do. I want them to. This was a low-key, bigger license what people realized. Just like even... it wasn't a Kickstarter, but what was it called that came out today, Joel? Like a back...
01:43:48
Speaker
back some Backer kit? Yeah, they they raised for, I guess, a game that associated with the theme, they raised over $2 million dollars just in the span of seconds. Like like happened like a role-playing game? like Yeah, exactly.
01:44:04
Speaker
Yeah, exactly right. So the fandom of this is massive. Like we're talking people will wait in line for hours just to like meet the author, get autograph. And get book signed. Yeah, he's down to earth and everything.
01:44:18
Speaker
Like it's, it is big time. and I think once it gets out there, ah even a TV show, I think it's going to grow. Oh, it did. Massively. it It absolutely could. I'm just curious who was smart enough to grab it now. And my only fear is it's, it's a really small pinball manufacturer. And I just, that's one of those things where I don't know. I don't know who got this. well Yeah. And what, what Joel's not revealing either, Tom is that him and we we talk,
01:44:49
Speaker
dungeon crawler Carl nearly daily. Like that's how obsessed we are with this. Like, it's a good time. Well, because you've only- Read the You've only listened to two minutes! Yeah, okay. We have a dungeon crawler Carl- Like, you already get a shit. There's four of We literally quote it back and forth to each other. If we did like a Samantha quote, you'd have no idea what even talking about right now. That's book five, bro. Do you have any Raul quotes? You don't do you? I'm ascending. I got nothing. But it's so good. Yeah. And we've been doing this before it was even announced. Like I'm actually looking at this game right now.
01:45:28
Speaker
Oh, the role-playing game? the the What's on backer kit? So it's I'm just, I'm very curious. This is one, if I'm going to sit here and play the game of like, what are the pinball rumors? What's coming out next?
01:45:39
Speaker
Honestly, this is the theme that I'm most excited for, but it really depends on who gets That's the theme. really depends on who gets it. like If I was ever to like either design or help with rules or do anything, that's the one game I would absolutely kill to be on. Oh, God. It's so great. The whole world is fantastic. I already told my distributor put me on a list.
01:46:04
Speaker
You're a smart guy. Oh, that's is smart. Yeah. I would, I would get an l LE of a DCC. Like that's how much I am obsessed. It's a good book. I just, I would encourage people. I would encourage people to give it a shot. It might not be your cup of tea. It might not be your cup tea. As a role-playing game, this would be awesome. As a pinball game, it would be awesome.
01:46:25
Speaker
There's so many characters. And the voices are great. yeah what the what the The real quick synopsis of Dungeon Crawler Carl, and you learn this in the first chapter, is is ah basically aliens show up and they make the entire there's the collapse. everybody Every building in the entire world literally sucked into the earth. If you happen to be under a roof, whether that was in a car in a building, you're dead.
01:46:48
Speaker
You're dead. So all the people that were outside of these buildings are like, now all of a sudden they're looking around and the world is flat and then these these doors pop up and your options are either, like they hear a voice, your options are either stay on the surface or go down the door.
01:47:04
Speaker
And if you go down the door, what you're entering is you're entering the dungeon. And there's this called Dungeon Crawler World. It's a TV series that is done, it is put on by a corporation.
01:47:14
Speaker
And this is for a difference. There's a whole things of aliens that that they they basically mine. You have resources and then they make so much money. This is the most popular show every year across the entire universe is watching the native species of whatever planet they're harvesting ah try to survive.
01:47:33
Speaker
It's basically what it is. and And what is cool is it's not just, sure, level one is just straight up dungeon. Like they're in a dungeon working their way through a dungeon. But all the other floors after that, they're not necessarily in a dungeon. They're in different worlds. They're doing different things. And the creativity of the book series just changes. Every single floor is different.
01:47:53
Speaker
And that's what's amazing with this author is how different the books are and the different challenges that are presented to the main character. The main character is a guy named Carl. And he happened to enter the floor with his ex-girlfriend's cat, whose name is Princess Donut.
01:48:09
Speaker
And their adventures are, i mean, fantastic. So there's your quick little synopsis. If you like funny, if you like problem solving, if you like this type of fantasy type, where it's awesome. It's an awesome book series. So that's me geeking out on it for a little bit.
01:48:24
Speaker
ah If you happen to be a fan, let us know. If you're not, give it a shot. Don't give it a shot with kids in the car. Don't give it a shot. with yeah it but just go with the audiobook please go with the audiobook and have a good time um oh yeah well there's so many great characters too that so many good ones that get added on that the awesome thing is is the true iconic characters of it like there's two iconic characters at the very beginning right yeah But the other iconic characters don't even show up until later on. And it's just fantastic because you can come in and out of it. So it's almost like Game of Thrones-esque in a way that a new character comes on and you don't even need to know their backstory, but you immediately get what their motivation is. And I guess the writer that does this, it's so prolific how he can pump these novels out, yeah but it's crystal clear what the motivations are. Mm-hmm.
01:49:22
Speaker
And what's even better with the audio books is Jeff Hayes has unique voices for everyone. For everyone. they're so good. Like it's, when you listen to the book, there's never any confusion of who's talking.
01:49:33
Speaker
Like, you know, know the different, kid it's like listening to a movie. It's really real well done. So enough of that. It's, know it's not pinball. We've already lost like 75% of our audience, but no it's awesome.
01:49:44
Speaker
Joel, are you familiar with who Liv Morgan is from WWE? Yeah. ah you Is this the picture you posted to the other day? No, but this... I don't know. I don't know anything about wrestling. Somebody sent this to me because it happened on Raw the other day. And I just sent it to the group chat. Looks just like Samantha.
01:50:02
Speaker
Yeah, you sent that picture. Yeah, I agree. yeah It is fantastic. yeah It's worth... I don't know. Just give it a shot. That's all I can say. If this is going to be a thing. I don't. Cause I, own that's book five it's I got to tell them, I got to tell them. Well, no, you're going to ruin it for it. Tell me, ah tell me off. the No, no. I got to tell you now.
01:50:22
Speaker
i tell you now. Okay. Somebody's going to be like, yeah. samantha Oh my gosh. Fine. Fine. It's worth it. It's okay. So with all that, I'm just saying, Samantha is the best literary character the history of history. She's awesome.
01:50:36
Speaker
i think Because she's hilarious. I think know the character just by looking at the game and seeing the Liv Morgan picture. um So with all that said, when I look ahead with rumors...
01:50:51
Speaker
Transformers, Fallout, Sonic, Dungeon Crawler Carl. ah Those are all rumors. ah Circus Voltaire was announced. Are we excited about that? American Pinball's back.
01:51:02
Speaker
Are we excited about that? Yeah, yeah why not? Sure. Why not? It's more pinball. sweet Might as well be. Might as well redo Shadow and i mean Whitewater. oh wait, that's you, Ken.
01:51:16
Speaker
i do like Circus Voltaire. Maybe some Jackpot. I like Circus Voltaire. I think it's a fun layout. You want Jackpot? I already haven't. I was just naming games I have. You want Jackpot remastered? Indiana Jones? That would yeah be like huge. yeah.
01:51:34
Speaker
Uh...
01:51:38
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, it's possibility. Just do all the Bally Williams. It's fine. I mean, imagine imagine all the possibilities. They're calling Circus Volterra re-imagine, right? Here's what I want. i wonder What does that mean? I want a radical read redone.
01:51:53
Speaker
I think I mentioned that before. Redo that. Make a Tony Hawk Pro Skater. Yeah, and then update the code. Did he suspend? Have you played that game? You guys have to have played that game.
01:52:07
Speaker
You might be onto something, Tom. Maybe there's a radical game in active development right now. do it. Maybe there is. Do it. Maybe there's not. And this is just Travis being Travis. I'm just going to keep saying maybe there is and maybe somebody will run with and put the rumor out there. Do it.
01:52:25
Speaker
I will say I am excited to see Circus Volterra done. What I'm very hesitant to see. Sorry, Travis, but like the Funhaus remake, the additional code did nothing me. That was a fantastic game, Joel. I don't know why I didn't win all the twippies. It did nothing for me.
01:52:40
Speaker
and so what additional code what are you talking about the 2.0 package oh i hey i didn't do it that's nothing for me so i didn't do any of that there's a um the 2.0 there was way before me had i've played circus voltaire a handful of times and i looked when they announced it i i did a quick youtube and there's um like jack danger has a video on dead flip where he beat circus voltaire i think it's in 18 minutes like it's there's not if you want to talk about shallow code there's really not a ton to do in the game okay to beat the game. So let's see what they add. Oh, I know it's still fun. I'll give you some inside baseball here, Joel, because let's do it the project's already at the end of it.
01:53:23
Speaker
Anyways, there may or may not be in existence a full writeout skeleton of a Funhaus 2.5 code rules. no with
01:53:37
Speaker
And I may be the only one that actually is in the possession of that. Oh, so you made them. You made the rules. I didn't say that. It's very hard to make classic game better. I'm just saying I'm in possession of it.
01:53:50
Speaker
I think it's pretty good. I think it'd be fun. but is somebody gonna put that in the game? Because if you have it a piece of paper, I can't play piece paper. No, no, no, nobody is. I'm just saying that it exists. So, I mean, I could tell you what it would have been like Not on the podcast, but off podcast. You'd probably be like, okay, that sounds fun. It probably would have been better.
01:54:10
Speaker
mean, it's okay. It's fine. It's fine. It's just, it didn't do it for me. So that's where oh i get I'm very curious to see what the Circus Voltaire release where Like, like I like to me, think it'll be fine. I think it'll be fine.
01:54:25
Speaker
Cactus Canyon, the lineman sheets extended code is a reason to buy this game. Like it is that code. What they added made that game. Incredible. and That to me, this is music to my ears. 2.0 code is not reason to buy that game. So what you're saying is if somebody can put on,
01:54:45
Speaker
good code with yeah solid rules to a remake that increases the potential for cells in the longevity. It's a crazy idea. a crazy idea. Yeah. I'm not the one saying it people. Crazy idea. I'm not the one saying it.
01:54:58
Speaker
Yeah, that's why we need Josh's Monster Bash rule kit that he that he's mentioned more than once that him and Lyman were working on I think you mentioned it. He never mentioned it. No, he did. He did on the podcast.
01:55:10
Speaker
um Of course. Yeah. I'm out of topics, guys. I don't know if it's not. um looking through my whole way way brain. Joel can't talk anymore?
01:55:22
Speaker
Well, it's sad. He just said I'm out of topics. There's so much more to talk about. We haven't talked for two months. Two months. And I understand it's been a so it's been a slower two months.
01:55:33
Speaker
So, I mean, if we just go through, like, Harry Potter's still awesome. still ah You still like Harry Potter, Tom? Yeah. Yeah. Harry Potter's still great. There's a hold up well against the other games that you have in your collection.
01:55:45
Speaker
does. When was the last time you played it? Three months ago. Let me ask you this, Tom. Let me ask you this, Tom. Somebody brand new to pinball. Somebody is like, they still they make ping pong? Somebody brand new to pinball is like, I need one.
01:55:59
Speaker
I need one, right? And i yeah which you which would you recommend? get harry potter ester no just Harry Potter or Pokemon? like let's say they have kids one hundred year old kids one hundred percent honesty Yes. they Which would you recommend to brand new pinball person? And they like both themes. They're just like, I can't decide.
01:56:21
Speaker
How old are the kids? ah like say Let's say they're 10-year-olds. They've loved Pokemon, they collect cards, and we've read through all the Harry Potter books, and they've seen all the movies.
01:56:33
Speaker
Play the damn games and make your own decision. Get away from me. Get away from me. kid smells.
01:56:44
Speaker
i' I'm telling you my answer to that question. I would say my i would say Harry Potter. I would say Pokemon based off the variables you just presented.
01:56:56
Speaker
I'm saying if they're new to pinball. would say Harry Potter just because i think I like the game better because it's fully fleshed out. And yeah i like I just like it better. i like the theme better. i don't I'm not a Pokemon guy. i don't That's fine. I don't know.
01:57:15
Speaker
trade cards. I don't, I'm not like, I enjoy Harry Potter more than Pokemon because i identify with that theme more right than anything. I didn't grow, I mean, I grew up during Pokemon, but I didn't grow up playing it or anything. i I had to learn it. Like when the Harry Potter movies came out, was like, cool, I want to see it.
01:57:32
Speaker
you know i I just know Pokemon. I'm kind of like, what is this? there I get it. Five million creatures. There's way more. There's um Tom, you know what we need?
01:57:44
Speaker
A new WWE w game. I think it's time. Let's go. We need it. Let's go. Things have changed. now we're talking. We need something new. Like I'm punk.
01:57:56
Speaker
What about Roman Reigns? What about another question? People are spending $30,000 on a WrestleMania ticket. Of course, they will buy a pinball machine. a ifff um Same group of people. Same group of people. and they're saying, we want to buy a pinball machine for our family.
01:58:14
Speaker
And you have to choose between Pokemon. CM Punk. You have to choose. WrestleMania LE edition. It plays freaking cold of personality every single time. Your options are Pokemon or Star Wars Fall of the Empire.
01:58:27
Speaker
Which one would you recommend to somebody? Wait, wait, say that again, Joel. wasn't listening to you guys. Listen to Travis. He's going a different direction with it. Listen to Travis over there. New family. It's a family. They're new to pinball. New family. okay It's a family new to pinball. They're saying we're going to put one in our basement. We're excited. do We got 10, 12 year old kids. Sterns, Star Wars, follow the empire or Pokemon. are This is easy. Are they a Disney family?
01:58:54
Speaker
Are they a Disney family? Do they go to Disney World? Do they travel? Okay, Star Wars. again Easy. Next question. I literally hate making decisions for other people and because it it's like, Joel, which which golf cart do you want? Do you want that golf cart or that golf cart? Tell me, Tom. Get this one because i it drives faster. and You're like, my kid would fall off the bat.
01:59:23
Speaker
Tom, you would be floored at least. Like, I mean, it's often new people depend. They need that guidance. So these questions Joel's asking, it's the same exact thing hear all the time. I absolutely the Star Wars theme. Like when I, when I was growing up, like Star Wars was the bomb.
01:59:42
Speaker
And this is now this is the best Star Wars game that I've played. i will I will agree with that. I do think Star Wars Fall the Empire is the best Star Wars game. I really like the Daddy East one.
01:59:53
Speaker
But, like, in comparison, like, this just has it all. i I do think it's And it's probably the LCD that Travis hates, but I don't care.
02:00:05
Speaker
And the expression lights and all that. What I'm trying to voice though- Which can't get on a pro. I'm going to start enjoying the LCD more. That's like my new year's resolution here in April is to start liking LCDs more. going to get those inner, I'm going to drill out my cabinet.
02:00:26
Speaker
I'm going to start just watching the LCD as often as possible. think that's called just TV. you I'm not even going to worry about the flippers. um I'm just going to watch the LCD. I just attract mode all day. look at the score.
02:00:38
Speaker
Cause that's small the reason I was asking the question. showing up um Right. the The reason I was asking the question is I was ta want me to not say Pokemon. I just, I would hate to somebody new to pinball to be to fork over 10 grand to put a pinball machine in their house and the in the game is either too complex or too hard for them to like enjoy it. I think for a new player, i think if i theme I think if you hate King Kong and you hate like the new Star Wars, I think Pokemon is the way to go, honestly.
02:01:17
Speaker
so Because it's simple to learn. Yeah. It's very simple to learn at this point. Whereas those other games are like, you kind of need an encyclopedia to like understand what's going on. And I'm not, I'm not saying that as a tournament player or collector or somebody who's been in in here for 15 years, I'm saying it as somebody who trying to see the world through a novice's eyes. Yeah.
02:01:44
Speaker
That's what I'm, that was what I'm asking. yeah Yes. So in in that regard, I would say, yeah, maybe Pokemon's for you. So tell me if I messed up, but I had a friend who they, they haven't bought a pinball machine, but when they've talked about wanting to buy pinball machine and they looked at, I was like, well, I suggest you go with a Stern pinball machine, like just cause ease of use, this and this and this. And at the time I was like, here are their current themes and we have all this other stuff.
02:02:13
Speaker
And the game that stood out to him, theme-wise, was Jurassic Park. And I was hesitant to recommend it as a first pin because I think the layout can be somewhat challenging and I think the code can be somewhat complex to a novice, brand new, somebody brand new into pinball.
02:02:33
Speaker
Here I am getting into it. here Did I mess up? Should I have not hesitated recommending Jurassic Park? Yeah, i miss I think you messed up. you day and i'll tell i'll tell you here's why. Cause theme.
02:02:48
Speaker
yeah Yeah. Any, any time you have somebody that's brand new to pinball, Always let them pick theme first. And the reason for it is, is they don't have any knowledge of what pinball is really beyond maybe going to location and playing it here and there. Right. Cause we're talking about somebody brand new, yeah right? Brand, brand new, not somebody that's gone to league for a year and just never owned a pinball machine, somebody brand new.
02:03:12
Speaker
So I just always recommend theme first because that's what will keep somebody engaged because they don't know what's a good layout. They don't know what's good code. They don't even know what rules are yet. It doesn't matter what you put in front of them. It's still all new, but a theme that they already know that's going to make it a lot easier to make connections. Yeah.
02:03:35
Speaker
to gameplay quicker. it's just It just is for whatever reason it does. So me personally, like when I first got into the hobby, knew nothing about pinball.
02:03:46
Speaker
ah You know, I went for a game that I thought I would really love the theme. And that was Daddy's Batman.
02:03:57
Speaker
And ah okay I got that game and I thoroughly enjoyed it Now, looking back on it, I'm like, that game fucking sucked. Oh, sorry. I shouldn't have said that. But looking back on it, like, me. No, no, no, it's fine. It's fine. You grew. You grew a player. I grew as a player, and I was like, wow, this is really easy. Like, you know, it's just, it's not a game I'm going to find in a tournament. And I'm not saying that makes a good game.
02:04:27
Speaker
But what I'm saying is, like, it it just got to a point where I was like, wow, this is getting kind of boring, you know? and But initially, like, I just, I loved it because it was Batman. It was a theme, yeah. I mean, I, yeah, the...
02:04:47
Speaker
mean, the first game I got was Stern Avatar, and that was just because it was a crazy deal, and then I traded that for Simpsons. Like that was the theme that I was like, Oh, I, I was reading Pinside, you know, i was six months into the hobby or whatever. I was reading, Oh, people love this game. People, this is a great game. It's got crazy depth. And I like Simpsons. Boom. Like I, I get it. Theme sells. We've, we've, we know this, we've preached that.
02:05:10
Speaker
I just know. I mean, I get enough messages, whether it's on Pinside or Facebook or this, like you've streamed this and stream this. I'm looking at my first game. What do you recommend this or this? It's like, I just try to look at it through the eyes of the and of of a novice of which game is potentially easier to shoot or easier to understand because I want you to get hooked. But it sounds like Travis's answer is, which theme do you like more? Well, yeah. Get that.
02:05:32
Speaker
Because here's why. It's because one always leads to two. Two always becomes four, right? Okay. In order for somebody to truly, well, and here's why, in order to enjoy the game, you have to connect with it.
02:05:46
Speaker
So if somebody buys a game just squarely off recommended gameplay and they're not a player yet, yeah then you're taking a, it's not saying that won't work, but though that person's taking a massive chance that they may not resonate at all with any part of the theme or anything like that. And it's oftentimes you have to already have a skillset built in, in order to truly appreciate a game that you may not like the theme at all.
02:06:15
Speaker
Right. In order to just appreciate the gameplay. So King Kong, that's a prime example of a game that a lot of people got to get past the theme because the gameplay is a whole lot of fun.
02:06:27
Speaker
But if somebody can't get past the theme, they're not going to notice that anyway. So I think that that's just kind of where you got to build, build that up. by just playing a theme. And then eventually you start understanding pinball, you start listening to podcasts, watching videos, going to shows, playing on location. And then you start to get a better idea with what you enjoy and with what starts resonating with you. You start making those connections that, oh, the shot kind of feels like this shot or this spinner kind of feels like that spinner. And I, I really like that. So you start going deeper and deeper. And I think everybody's been there. If you can really think, and Tom just did it, but Joel, if you can really think about one of the first games that you ever owned and then think about the direction that you went after that like what you started valuing because you probably evolved
02:07:17
Speaker
in terms of what you like as a player and you felt more confident later on and knowing what you enjoyed gameplay wise. It wasn't just this fog that you didn't quite understand anymore, but it took time to get there. But yeah, I think, and plus two is important too. If you have a brand new person to pinball, you can always remind them that, Hey, you don't have to play three balls. You could set the five ball ten ball so even if it's too hard you can play as if you're playing three games play longer yeah just enjoy your theme yeah put the training wheels on and have fun like you pay you paid the money for it why not
02:07:55
Speaker
These are valid points. I messed up. I should have recommended Jurassic Park. When did you tell him this, Joel? We could rectify this right now. Oh, shit. Well, it was Jurassic Park, and then... Does he still play pinball?
02:08:08
Speaker
No, he never ended up buying a game. He still wants to buy a game, but I'm curious at this point... Yeah.
02:08:30
Speaker
it was one of those like he was redoing his basement and he's like, I think I'm going to, I think I want to add a pinball machine. What do recommend? Call that man tomorrow. It's on me. This is on me. I'll take it.
02:08:41
Speaker
It's on me. this is on me i'll take it it's on me No, and honestly i mean honestly, you could have been like, well, you know maybe the Stern one's too hard. maybe Maybe try looking for a Dead East one.
02:08:53
Speaker
you know like yeah Oh, yeah yeah. There's plenty of... Yeah, there's there's a time and place for... i mean, even a Batman fan you're saying you you you could still recommend... a daddy's Batman to somebody just because it's like the cost is right get it in your house try pinball and if you find yourself playing yeah then you can always sell it and get another one a new player never feels bad about playing a game in which the theme is nostalgic to them exactly they never feel bad about it yeah I'll admit, they only feel bad about it once they understand what pinball is. owned Star Wars episode one at one point. Have you guys noticed that? Like, if somebody knows what pinball is, then there's a higher chance that their dream theme could let them down because they're looking at it through different point of view at that point, right? All the...
02:09:43
Speaker
I was kind of scared when I heard, rush you know, when I knew Rush was coming out. I'm like, am I going to really like it? You know, like, what if I hate it? Yeah, you got lucky there.
02:09:55
Speaker
really like yeah Most people hate it, though, so I feel i felt great. Well, that's why, ah you know, we're talking about Dundra Crawler Carl here. It's like, well, depending on the designer, the manufacturer, you know, quality, build quality, all this, I don't know. what recent stern I don't want to hurt.
02:10:10
Speaker
Here's a good question. I know we got to wrap it up, but you guys just queued off something. Sure. What recent Stern game in the past 10 years have come out that you think most people would be like, that was my dream theme and I'm just not happy with how it turned out?
02:10:26
Speaker
Venom. Sorry, hottie. Venom is the one game. I like, I like Venom. I enjoy playing Venom. Venom. And I think Venom. Venom's the one I've heard. Another one I've heard a lot of is Led Zeppelin.
02:10:39
Speaker
Yeah. For various reasons. I can see that. yeah I've heard that one a lot. I think that's squarely just from not having Stairway Heaven. Yeah. yeah That's like the biggest complaint. above.
02:10:50
Speaker
That's what's hilarious. It's above the actual layout and the rules. I still enjoy it. just song. Yeah, I had to play for a little while and I i enjoyed it. was fun. To some extent, Turtles.
02:11:02
Speaker
Turtles is a game that people, you know, they're like, it's too hard. Damn. Yeah, I could see that. I think i think the top two, I think would be, yeah, Venom and Led Zeppelin. So then if we take away Godzilla and Jaws, actually, let's just take away all Elwyn pins.
02:11:20
Speaker
What other game by anybody... In the past 10 years across any manufacturer, do you think if somebody is like, that's my dream theme that that pen like just nailed it and just crushed it?
02:11:33
Speaker
Dune, uh, Dune, Dune crushed I think Dune crushed it. Um, you're saying take off all Ellen pins. Um, Like anybody else. So if you're, you heard it from Joel, if you're a dude fan, Elton John's good. Elton John crushed Elton John. I was going to say Guns N' Roses when it first came out, it was really, really popular. Yeah.
02:11:57
Speaker
Yeah. yeah i could see that. um
02:12:02
Speaker
Why is this hard to think of? So, I mean, there's a lot of pinball. There's a lot pinball. I mean, I think Labyrinth really did a really good job. It is hard.
02:12:15
Speaker
It's a harder layout. I mean, that's also Dune. I'm reading some of that. Some people think the layout is hard, but I think i think they've done the themes very well, both both Labyrinth and Dune.
02:12:29
Speaker
um I mean, if somebody's really into Winchester Mystery House, then I can probably say that game, but I don't know who's who's that type of fanboy. So the next question to put you both on the spot. Oh, like Beetlejuice.
Exploring New Pinball Manufacturers and Themes
02:12:41
Speaker
And I think Beetlejuice did it really, really well. I think if you're a Texas Chainsaw Massacre, like huge fan, i think you are probably very happy with that game. yeah All right.
02:12:52
Speaker
Tom, we're going to put Joel on the spot. Somebody's not going to send him a Christmas card this year. portal Portal, they did really good job. You have two choices. All right You cannot, Stern is out of the equation.
02:13:05
Speaker
Yeah. If you had to pick one manufacturer outside of Stern to do any dream theme, if somebody came you and said, Barrels of Fun. Above anybody else, above Spooky, above Jersey Jack, you answered that immediately. Yeah.
02:13:22
Speaker
So why? um barrels of fun if you if you're if you're saying Stern's off the table but if you could tell me hey take this dream theme and I go okay hey Carl D'Angelo can you design the play field hey Jeff Dirty Pool can you design the audio package And then I've really been impressed with the build quality.
02:13:42
Speaker
The mechs, David's got figured out. Travis is one of the the engineers there. And then Phil Grimaldi and who else? on They have Eric Pripke. Eric Pripke's rules, the way that he does modes. Like, I like Eric Pripke rules on spooky games, and now he's doing games at Barrels of Fun. So if I look at that,
02:14:03
Speaker
The only question is art package, and that depends on what the theme is. But they had they don't cheap out on that. they they got Johnny Crap did a fantastic job, and then they just hired... um Brad Albright, right? to do To do Winchester. So it's like, I mean, sure, if I can make my dream theme, that then get Franchi to do whatever it is. But um to me, if you said yes, hey, Joel, ah my my current dream theme, what I keep saying, Batman batman the Animated Series is like, yes, Batman the Animated Series I want to see.
02:14:38
Speaker
But I threw this out here right now. If you told me i get to just i get to decide what the next Barrels of Fun pinball machine is, I would pick Mad Max Fury Road. Mad Max Fury Road, done by Barrels of Fun, that audio package would be insane.
02:14:54
Speaker
Like, um all the time. Oh, you sound great. And then, um yes, you give me you give me somebody. I mean, they've proven that they can make fun layouts. And now that Carl's there with his brain.
02:15:05
Speaker
um Yes, without a doubt. And it's nothing. the second The second one I would consider would be jjp but no no you can't nope nope oh i know i just you left that body on side of the road the code just gets so complex yeah it's a little a little confusing at times tom do you want to answer your question or do you want to get all your christmas cards yeah i want uh well i don't want to piss anybody off so I didn't say anybody else is bad. I'm just saying, boom, that's what I want. Oh, you didn't have to. I think it would be a tough choice because, like, if Stern's off the table, I mean, I've seen a lot of good coming out of Jersey Jack and Barrels of Fun. Rush wants a new pinball machine. They don't want to work with Stern anymore. Jersey Jack turned him down. Wasn't that the rumor?
02:16:01
Speaker
I can't confirm nor deny that, but who do you want? Who do you want making in that machine? I
02:16:12
Speaker
mean, you own them all. You, you have every manufacturer.
02:16:18
Speaker
Valley Williams. No, just kidding. Uh, mechanics. Yeah. Uh, shit. Yeah. It's tough one, isn't it? It's really tough.
02:16:31
Speaker
They each have the pros and cons. It's not that there's any one bad. would Play Mechanics, if I saw maybe their next game, that's the problem. So they did really well with Fiction. They really well with Pulp.
02:16:42
Speaker
Yeah, I don't, you know. Yeah, I mean, that game's due out. Josh told us 2032, think. what if they got Dungeon Crawler Carl? That would be sick. Oh, That would be sick.
02:16:56
Speaker
i don't want to answer. yeah Dude, I answered before you even finished at Barrels that's too tough of a question. yeah I mean, I'll i'll answer.
02:17:06
Speaker
The pinball company? no No, no, no, no, no. No, no, no. I'm not. Yeah, Jetsons 2, Elroy's Revenge. coming out soon. um I think I would have to also say Barrels of Fun.
02:17:22
Speaker
I think I would. Just because of all the reasons that Joel pointed out. But I think also too, it's like even, even David, like the passion that he has that he exudes and his whole thing is just making, like, i always love it when he talks about pinball. He's like, I just want to make cool shit.
02:17:41
Speaker
That's it. Like, that's like the North star. And I think if your whole, If your whole team is thinking that direction, you're going to come up with something interesting and fun, right? And you're going to take risks that are necessary. And it may blow up. It may not work. But you know what? When it works, it's probably a lot of I will say i was probably going to go with barrels. And the only reason is, and they probably have ah the especially the last two games probably some of the coolest max and pinball right now i mean that think that i think they're the full package that worm and dune is just freaking amazing like it's it's probably the most amazing mech i've seen in a long time yeah and re and i was listening to a podcast and
02:18:37
Speaker
It was, it's overpriced. Like it's, it, it, it exceeded their bomb. It exceeded their, like when they said, this is what it is. And it was David or the, they're the business partner. I forget. I think it's Brian, Brian, Brian, but they were just like, it needs to be there. It was like, well, we can get it to do this, this, this. and this But we could take this part out, and I don't remember which one, and then it would be okay. And they're like, no like And so it's just like, i don't know, to have that mentality of like,
02:19:09
Speaker
This is, if we're going to do it, we're doing it. And we're doing it like we know how expensive that's going to be. But even Winchester, the play field. Yeah, that's so cool. Incredible.
02:19:20
Speaker
so And it's not, I mean, it you know, it's it's scoop one minute. it's ah It's a orbit one minute. You know, it's just. Yeah. I just think Carl's going to do something to top that too.
02:19:34
Speaker
I'm willing to bet. Nah, he's well done. Yeah, I'd bet the house. Nah, he's too tired. He's washed, you think? Yeah, he's washed. He spent all that time on all all of his ideas. I'm probably going to have to start giving him ideas, you know? He hasn't asked me yet, but I can I can tell. Oh, he did. do you forget. You forget when he lets you know what he thought about that one target thing. Yeah. um um No, I honestly, I very much believe. And I think what's crazy about barrels of fun is they've only been around what? It's like two years, three years. I mean, they are not about three years or so. I think it's not crazy. Like they've built that level of trust.
02:20:12
Speaker
that quickly and i think like i don't own it but i still think labyrinth like a really cool great game it's cool game it's just it's like the movie never resonated with me because i've never seen it yeah but you know like i i appreciate the game for what it is yeah i just all i need is if i can get like a christmas vacation pinball machine i'd be happy there's a horror be a hard sell though Doesn't matter. They would have one. They'd sell one. I'd get it. 50 grand.
02:20:45
Speaker
Sandlot. I need Sandlot. Desperate for that one. Like those are two. Those are two need. That and Super Mario Brothers cart. Yeah. Super Mario would be pretty but Maybe. Someday. My two dream teams easily are Batman the Animated Series and Mad Max Fury Road. My brother will preach Blade Runner all day long. That's what he wants. um He wanted a Dune, didn't he?
02:21:08
Speaker
He did, and we got it. There's reason I'm getting it. so it's there's a lot There's a lot going on. Wait, is Jared getting No, I'm just kidding. Jared doesn't have any room in his house for people.
02:21:20
Speaker
Yeah, that's fair. do I do. I know. I wish my brother loved me that much. It'd be awesome. You're an only child. Yeah, I don't have one. so And your two friends? What about them? Yeah, what what about them? I'm glad one of them wished me happy birthday. That was nice of them.
02:21:41
Speaker
All right, we've rambled. Elwin turned this podcast off an hour and 20 minutes ago. Easy. easy yeah okay If you're still here, guys, leave a like, leave a follow, leave a comment. You want to hear start to the end you want to hear what he had to say? oh please. because we were talking baseball earlier, and I said, we're supposed to be recording a triple drain episode tonight, but both Joel and Tom are having technical issues.
02:22:06
Speaker
freaking amateurs. Like that's what I said. Yeah. He replied back. I didn't know that was still a show. ah that's fair thank you for uh everyone yes well we did it because ralph ralph needed it retro ralph needed it i need to tuck mike into bed mike hope you're doing well sleep was but oh yeah yeah big mike everybody can thank ralph though so uh yeah ralph is what did it leave a message for ralph tyler if you think it's been too long if you think it's been too long since we've recorded
02:22:40
Speaker
Let Ralph know. Just tell, get, just comment on Ralph's stuff, you know, like whatever. Cool video. Tell Triple Drain they need to record. Just just tell Ralph.
02:22:50
Speaker
Cool video. Where's Triple Drain at? Yeah. the On the YouTube and the Facebook and the emails, tell Ralph and we'll get it. we'll we'll He'll let us know. Yeah. So sounds good. All right. Let's plug it up.
Upcoming Events and Community Engagement
02:23:03
Speaker
Let's plug it up. Tom, you go first, bub. I'm Tom. You can find me ah six times year on this podcast and and on Fox City's Pinball where I stream a lot of pinball. We got Midwest Gaming Classic coming up. We got the Whopper Chopper in May. And then we have the big one that Travis just got into, which is the IFPA 21 World Championship, which will be held at District 82, which I'll be streaming. So...
02:23:35
Speaker
Nice. And that's just the first half of the year. You're killing it. ah You're also the main reason why we can't ever record because you're killing it everywhere all the time, Tom. My fans need me.
02:23:47
Speaker
Pitbull at the zoo this weekend. He's signing autographs and babies, whatever you want. He'll sign it. I'm not streaming there. That's Yipsy, I think. Which is good because I need a break.
02:23:58
Speaker
check out his stuff on silver ball swag. You can check out his stuff there, flipping out merch is there and only friends there. Yeah. All of it. Uh, Travis plug away. Yeah. You guys can find me on my, uh, my work, YouTube and ball company. I do like videos, tutorials, all that. And you guys can also find me here for our podcast every 60 days or so. There we do it. So yeah, yeah. Maybe we might even, we should do a podcast like in three weeks.
02:24:27
Speaker
Yeah, just something crazy. Four weeks. Yeah, maybe there might be a game announced around that time. Let's shoot for May. Let's get one in May. Let's not skip a month Let's get one out for the mothers.
02:24:40
Speaker
Okay, yeah, we're going to get one out, and we're either going to talk about IFPA or we're going to talk about a new game coming out. So we'll see. And, yeah, my name is Joel. I do the Flippin' Out YouTube stream. I stream every Wednesday night with my brother. So check us out live. Otherwise, you can check out tutorials, other videos there. Or we got this wonderful podcast that we stream ah or film, whatever, three, four times a year. Thank you for the supporters on Patreon. We really appreciate you guys.
02:25:06
Speaker
um I'm sorry you contribute monthly and we don't. But thank you for that. That'll change. ah That'll change. I'll send a bunch of stuff from this weekend. I'll put it all up. It'll great. We're going get on it.
02:25:19
Speaker
we We'll do better, guys. We'll do better. Okay, so... I'm doing great. Why are you putting we in here? If you go on the Patreon... It's I'll do better. I'll do better, guys. It's me. I did report for Tom might even put his OnlyFans out. I did do the snowstorm. did the weather report.
02:25:38
Speaker
Okay. I like opened my door and there's just like snow piled up. Like I couldn't see outside. It was awesome. It is awesome. I didn't have to go to work. It's great.
02:25:52
Speaker
I just played pinball all day. It was awesome. I got to go to work tomorrow. I do. Anyways. got to go to work. Goodbye, everybody. Like always, Tom, you get the last words? Let's get that WrestleMania new wrestling pin out.
02:26:08
Speaker
It's about to play. come me on