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Triple Drain Pinball Podcast Episode 74 - Travis is an Adult today?
1 Plays3 seconds ago
Hosts: Joel Engelberth, Tom Graf and RetroRalph
We are back… kind of. We tried to get all three of us together but one of us (TRAVIS) was too busy being an adult today that he couldn’t join. So we called in a back up and luckily RetroRalph was able to join! We covered our thoughts on owning Transformers, Sonic, Beetlejuice, Pokemon and Harry Potter. What we like and don’t like about each one of them as well as our thoughts on Tails of the Arabian Nights. Come join in on the fun :)
YOUTUBE - https://www.youtube.com/@tripledrain
APPLE PODCAST - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/triple-drain-pinball-podcast/id1801297546
SPOTIFY PODCAST - https://open.spotify.com/show/2bXltnKD71nmPKPbYHF4u9?si=tXEr45h1REicPtGuA5N_xg
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Email: tripledrain@gmail.com
Merch: https://silverballswag.com/collections/triple-drain-pinball-podcast
More Merch: https://www.zazzle.com/store/tripledrain
Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/triple_drain
Travis' stuff: https://www.youtube.com/@ThePinballCompany
Tom's stuff: https://www.youtube.com/@Foxcitiespinball
Joel's stuff: https://www.youtube.com/@FlipNOutPinball
Shoutout to Jackson Gee and his incredible artwork. jacksongee.com
Shoutout to Brad Johanson and his company Alter Creative Media for his intro video. Altercreativemedia.com
Thanks again to Ralph for joining us and feel free to check out his Youtube channel at https://www.youtube.com/@RetroRalph
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Transcript
Introduction and Travis's Absence
00:00:10
Speaker
We're triple triple drink.
00:00:23
Speaker
All right. All right. Where the hell is Travis? It's a great question. It's been a while. It's been a while. This is how we start every episode. It's it's gone longer than we thought. And and ah yeah, it's once again, there's three of us crazy busy. And I finally was like, we've been trying to record for, i don't know, two weeks. And I was like, all right, guys, we're going record Friday. We have to record Friday. And Travis is like, can't do it. um I got adulting that he had to do. yes He had like too much stuff he had to do. And he's like, at this point, he goes, if we need to record, just, you know, get get a fill in basically. And so I said, Tom, who do you want?
Retro Ralph's Interests and Transformers Pinball
00:01:01
Speaker
And Tom's first choice was Retro Ralph. Retro Ralph, you were here. You were at the top of the list. Joel has a beard. i have a beard.
00:01:09
Speaker
That's what I'm required. Why not get somebody else who has appeared? Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, it's, I honestly, we're, we're recording this during the day on Friday. And it's, it's hard to find schedules that line up. And I know we'd like, we all have work schedules. Tom's got it easy. He takes Fridays off, but Ralph, luckily you were able to fit it into your work schedule. I'm here and Hey, we're excited record. We're excited record. But yeah, we'll come back. Joel is a little bit fitted in or playing hooky would be probably more accurate. So I'm going to watch this. You want to get anybody in trouble. Yeah. Depending on who's asking. Right. But anyways, we got a lot to talk about. And honestly, Ralph, we're excited to have you on here because of because of the topics. Just just a heads up. The topics are going to be Pokemon, Transformers, Sonic,
00:01:57
Speaker
and totem so uh we'll probably sprinkle in plenty more along the way but but what's what's great ralph is you've had all of those games not totem but you've had them all so we're going to be able to dip into your your overall opinion your overall thoughts on on share these recent releases um yeah let's start with uh we'll start with transformers why not um Tom, you have yours as well, right?
00:02:19
Speaker
I do. It's right over there. Yeah, and which you got the LE. I think Travis had talked you into the LE before. you're i like i think he he pushed you over the edge. He forced me to get it. Yes, forced you. So you got one, and I know, Ralph, you just got yours as well. Initial thoughts from the two of you guys. I have not seen the LE. I have not played the LE. I only had the pro. Just initial impressions right off the bat. Tom, go for it.
00:02:45
Speaker
a Beautiful cabinet. ah Expression lights are amazing. ah good Good game. No transformer, though. no transform no No transforming. But we knew yeah we knew that.
00:02:59
Speaker
Yes, true. true ah Ralph, similar thoughts? Yeah, i I loved it when we went for media day and checked it out. So we were able to play all three of them there. They had the Pro Premium and Limited.
00:03:12
Speaker
um i got the Limited too. So Tom, we're in the we're in the Limited Club right now. yeah ah i i I really like a lot of a lot about it. There's not a lot I don't like. And
Pinball Game Design and Player Engagement
00:03:22
Speaker
i the one thing that stands out to me and I know everyone has been kind of like repeating this, but, but ever since Elizabeth got involved with jaws and did a lot of the cool modes that she put into jaws and some of her touches, I always felt like she was kind of going to bring something very interesting to pinball. Cause she just, it's just, you could tell she's someone that really likes pinball and understands what people like.
00:03:45
Speaker
And so the first thing that stands out to me with this game is just how much code is in it right now. Yeah. And how fun she made it. Like the one thing that I just love is I love that I can play two modes and maybe I complete them and maybe I don't. Yeah. But then I have one shall fall available to me. And that's just so...
00:04:03
Speaker
As a Transformers fan, that mode, the music and what you're what you're having to do and and the the the music and everything else, it just it creates this fun moment where it's like, all right, I'm pumped up.
00:04:17
Speaker
i'm i'm ready to I'm ready to take down ah Megatron. And ah it's just that that's a lot of fun. And I think that comes from her understanding like what someone that plays pinball is looking for. yeah of looking for some fun, some a good time. And and to give you... i don't know if she's calling that a mini wizard mode. I would call it that.
00:04:34
Speaker
but To give you access to a mini wizard mode that easily... ah And maybe it's a little harder for someone that's like a beginner player. Sure. it's ah It's something to work up to if you're a beginner player. And it's something that if you play a lot, you can get to in the beginning of the game and have some some more fun with the code.
00:04:51
Speaker
ah The one thing that I had a problem, I am having a problem with my Megatron right now. Like he's not making the ramp 100% of the time. He's not landing. Oh, really? Yeah, the ball's not always landing on the ramp. I'm working with Stern Support to fix that. I got it like 90% of the way there. Okay. But I like the unique layout.
00:05:08
Speaker
I know we're going to talk about Pokemon later, but... Or Pokemon. I sometimes get sick of... And this is something that I remember maybe it was last time I was on or maybe it was in our chat that we have with Travis.
00:05:20
Speaker
We talk a lot about like different layouts and things like that. And I think i i so I'm starting to get... like more of a what do I actually want out of a pinball machine? And sometimes I get a little less interested when it's a fan layout. Although, you know, you could argue that Sonic is too. I know we're going to talk about that.
00:05:36
Speaker
But I think the the layout's cool. and And it's like from someone that's newer in designing and you went from WIC and and now you have this. And I feel like, you know, outside of the the drama that was around the optimist thing, which which could it'd be easy to just laser focus on that.
00:05:52
Speaker
The rest of the package is really good. Yeah, no. So yeah, a few things there. So One Shall Fall, just for people that don't know, um what's cool about this game and the way that Elizabeth designed it is the the modes are lit by default. you don't have to You don't have to do anything to qualify a mode. All you have to do is get the drops out of the way or a drop out of the way and then get the ball ah into Megatron. And that's how you'll start a mode. um And you could start a mode and drain.
00:06:19
Speaker
I think maybe you have to hit one shot. I don't know. But I think you just literally have to start a mode and that counts. And then so ball two, you could do the same thing. You still have to qualify mode. You just have to get a drop out of the way, get to Megatron. Boom. You started your second mode. If you do that,
00:06:36
Speaker
Then this one shall fall mini wizard mode is lit and it's lit on the right ramp. So for a complete novice, even that's it. Just like I remember when we were streaming at Jared, it's like, all right, that doesn't just start a mode. Doesn't, you know, you don't have to beat it, but if you do that, boom, then right ramp, that's the hardest part of the whole process is just hitting that right ramp. But well once you, and it's not that it's a bad shot, it's just compared to what I've just explained. That's the hardest part.
00:06:59
Speaker
You hit that right ramp, you start
Godzilla Pinball and Player Preferences
00:07:01
Speaker
one shall fall. And it's a mini wizard mode, unlimited ball save, where you're battling Megatron. You're trying to hit purple shots, ah right? And then red shots hurt you. Avoid the red shots, yeah. yeahp But what's brilliant is the fact that she made it. There are five modes, and depending on the two modes that you played, will give you perks during that mini wizard mode. So that mini wizard mode can feel completely different depending on the two modes that you brought into it.
00:07:28
Speaker
um For example, the drops might count as as hits. So like those are really easy. One of the perks is that or another perk is by draining. It doesn't damage you. That's a really good perk. Or there's another one where it like relights ah major shots. So it's she's even she's made a ah she's made a um a mini wizard mode that's relatively easy to achieve for ah for anybody with any bit of skill.
00:07:51
Speaker
ah But yet you can challenge yourself by how you prepared or how you went into it. And then obviously the values go up too based on, think it's like your Energon cubes or whether or not you beat the mode or like she's given so much variety in this thing that feels cool and unique. But it also, I don't think it's going to get old because of the variety that you can bring into that mode.
00:08:14
Speaker
Do you guys already, I mean, Tom, with your tournament brain, do you already have like a I don't know. I'm going to do this mode and this mode. Boom. Every time. or ah Kind of. Not. not Yeah. I mean, i I'm always feeling like, and and this is usually my strategy for most games. It's kind of like trying to trying to stack the best mode with a multiball.
00:08:38
Speaker
okay And haven't quite found that mix yet, but I mean, it it's just it's just something you got to kind of try different things and kind of dial it in. I did want to touch on, like you said, your your Megatron wasn't working right, Ralph.
00:08:55
Speaker
mine I haven't had one issue with mine. It's actually been great. um One thing I really like on the Premium LE is that ah you kind of have like a combo, right?
00:09:07
Speaker
There's like a combo system where you could you hit it into Megatron. It hits it down the ramp. You have to hit the ramp again, and it'll ward a combo, and then it'll lock the ball again, and then it'll move the ah the cannon towards your upper flipper. Yeah, the right flipper, yeah. Yeah, and then you're supposed to hit Optimus Prime.
00:09:28
Speaker
I think that's pretty cool. You know, they they kind of making use for that. but um But other than that, you you don't see a lot of use out of that can. At least I haven't. But it seems like ah more so more so that stuff. but ah But no, as far as tournament strategy goes, I'm still working on that stuff.
00:09:53
Speaker
Okay. But i like my high score right now is like around like 500 million. which it's not terrible, but I haven't, I haven't seen like the, uh, like I haven't completed all the modes or anything like that yet.
00:10:09
Speaker
So you as like a top hundred player in the world, you haven't, you haven't seen the end of the code yet. No, that's pretty amazing for these code.
00:10:20
Speaker
Yeah, it's good. Yeah. Yeah, that's awesome. Did you guys play it pre... I can't remember if either of you played it pre um that update where... I'm glad they changed this, though, because I really didn't i really didn't like the fact that you'd hit the VUX six times to start Transformers Multiball. I thought that was kind of weird. So like now you have to bash Optimus and then it... That's the only way I've played it. I've played it that way, yeah. Yeah, yeah with the new update, you you you now bash Optimus, like you said, and then go for the...
00:10:51
Speaker
Oh. Yeah. So now it's... You hit Optimus and go in
Pokemon Pinball: Design and Appeal
00:10:56
Speaker
the VUK. And then the second time around, you have to hit Optimus three times yes before you can lock a ball and you got to repeat that sequence. And I think it's like five times after that. So it gets a lot harder.
00:11:08
Speaker
So you're only... You you should be you bash Optimus once and then you lock a ball in the VUK. Yep. You bash him once again, lock a ball, bash him once. So, okay. Because that's... Yeah. When I was... I was...
00:11:20
Speaker
i was not I was the one where you had to hit the buck six times. and it's like that's Because of where the shot is, it's ah it's it's not it's not that it's a hard shot. I just feel like I'm never aiming at it unless I'm purposely aiming at it. like it's It doesn't mistakenly...
00:11:36
Speaker
go into the buck like I wasn't accidentally getting locks or I wasn't accidentally starting multiple it was one of those like oh crap I should probably because I would go whole games without doing multiple because I wasn't thinking about it I was so focused on doing modes or whatnot compared to certain other games where it's like crap I started multiple and I didn't even realize you know I was there um so I make that's interesting i'm um I'm excited to see what that rule changes
00:12:04
Speaker
But one thing i want to bring up to you guys is when when we streamed this, we had Gieske on, and she was explaining some stuff. And she brought up something, and I know this has been mentioned before, and she gives full credit to Keith Elwin, the person who taught her this.
00:12:18
Speaker
But she talked about pinball pacing, pinball pacing. And the idea was, and what happened was like... I drained or Jared drained and he's like, ah, I was one shot away from this. And then like I finished my ball and I drained. I'm like, ah, I was one shot away from this. And she goes, she's like, I think I nailed it. We're like, what? She goes, that's the goal. She goes, the goal is she wants everybody when you drain in pinball, you want to have been or two shots away from something cool.
00:12:48
Speaker
Like, because otherwise, if you get in that point in certain game code where you're just... chopping wood, you know, or like, man, I'm so many shots away or I've locked myself out of this or I've done this. So she said, she called it pinball pacing. It's it's. and And once she really brought that to my attention, it it's really made me start to look at games differently or even at any moment. Like if I pause, if I cradle up right now, am I only a few shots away from something cool or, or have I already seen everything and now I'm stuck, you know? And I just feel like, yeah what are your thoughts on that? When I throw that, that out there? Honestly, every game should be like that. It's a hook, you know? I mean, you're, you're basically, you know, there, there's no better feeling than like the feeling of accomplishment, like getting to a mini wizard mode.
00:13:34
Speaker
Like for example, like guardians of the galaxy, you get to cherry bomb. It's like an awesome feeling. All the balls are flying around. You're trying to trying to hit all the shots and get in Groot's mouth. Right.
00:13:46
Speaker
Uh, you know, and you know, sometimes you're like one mode away. Sometimes you're a shot away, but those are the hooks that like keep you coming back for more. Cause it's like, I know I could do this, yeah but i for some reason I can't and now I want to keep trying until I do it.
00:14:04
Speaker
But where I struggle with Guardians, so at your skillful skill level, yeah, but I know like for a novice player, if the idea is you have to get halfway with six modes to get to group multiball, is it six? Four modes. okay So half the modes.
00:14:22
Speaker
Halfway, or do you have to beat all four modes? You have to beat all four modes. But still, so let's say let's say i start a game and I only beat two modes. And then um and then you you drain. You're like, ugh.
00:14:33
Speaker
Then you start again. And you got to, now this time I beat three modes. ah It's like, that's where I'm not... I don't feel like I'm just one or two shots. I felt like I was a whole mode... Like, I don't... I'm not discrediting what you're saying. Yes, when i go to when you do... Like, that's one of those where the pacing... I feel like those are the ones where it's like, ah, do I want to play... Do I want to play those same three modes again and hope I can beat my fourth mode to get to that? Because I agree, Cherry Bomb is like the the best part of Guardians. I love that.
00:15:00
Speaker
But um I feel like there are other games... Like TNA. I love TNA because I feel like TNA truly is one or two shots away from the next step.
00:15:11
Speaker
Or maybe it's just that next sense of accomplishment. Nine of them, though. Yeah, but that's but I'm saying the way it's paced. Not everybody is Ryan McQuaid. No, shout out to that, the fact that that was just on ah Games gone Done Quick. That was awesome. That was so cool to see him speedrun that. I actually reached out. good you know Props on Ryan for doing it, but I reached out to Scott, and I was like, how cool is it that that was a homebrew
Sonic Pinball: Mechanics and Comparisons
00:15:34
Speaker
that got manufactured, and then here we are now being his game, his baby, is being played on stage at you know Awesome Games Done Quick as a speedrun. That's so cool. But, Ralph, what are you what's your thought on... i mean
00:15:48
Speaker
I you're the young one out of the three of us when it comes to your pinball, which I think is great. But like, what are your thoughts on on the the more that you play it in like what code really speaks to you? And what are you seeing that makes something good or bad or indifferent?
00:16:03
Speaker
Yeah, we were kind of talking offline a little bit. I just can't imagine the the pressure that goes into being the software developer on any pinball machine because you have to balance the, I want to give them things that make them feel like they're accomplishing tasks, even if they're novice players. But I also can't make it boring for someone like Tom who's going to just blow it up, you know? Yeah.
00:16:26
Speaker
So... I like when games give me a little bit like, okay, I'm i'm a moderate to okay player. Give me some things and and and show me that I'm making progress. But I do like that. um There's something really cool about the maybe slight anxiety something gives you when you're almost there and you don't achieve it. Because that that for me, at least, as the games I like, it makes me want to come back and get to that thing.
00:16:52
Speaker
yeah um But also the code has to be something where I don't have to, for me at least, I don't want to have to go and like read an entire rule sheet. I like being able to discover it a little bit. and that was kind of something that early on when I started in the hobby, Travis was telling me. He's like, just play it to like learn it. And don't be so worried about the point system yet. like Worry about that after.
00:17:15
Speaker
So I like when games give me something, but I go, okay, cool. That's like my first milestone I'm trying to get to, but maybe I i don't make it like you said. And then it it makes me want to press start again.
00:17:26
Speaker
i like games like that, but also I could make an argument for, i like it when a game does something where let's say there's like three drop targets and I hit one down and then they don't reset the next time so because maybe i'm going to get something if I can do hit the other two and I'm not that good right so um so I can kind of make an argument both ways but that's the balance like how do you make it so that it's going to be fun for everybody and I think that's I don't that's like an impossible mission I feel like in a way yeah and there there's no i don't know I know on this
00:18:00
Speaker
Like if Travis was here, he'd talk about Godzilla because that's what he likes to talk about. And I think it's... Well, he's set it as like a gold standard before of like such a good balance of it it can be fun for novice, but also be awesome for the Carl D'Angelo's. It can... It's got the mechs. It's got the sound. It's got like... And I do think... I do think Godzilla is one of those games that really does so much right.
00:18:25
Speaker
um But yeah, I do think like... my dad loved playing Godzilla. And I remember asking him why. And he goes, well, I had no idea what I was doing, but whatever I was doing felt like I was accomplishing something. And it's like, because he was chipping away at like, he never started a battle, but he, you know, he was destroying the building, whether or not he hit the building or hit the ramps. He, you know, things were reacting, the light show, the explosion. i don't know. Like that was something to me.
00:18:51
Speaker
um And i yeah, i I was over at my buddy Derek's house. He's got like 30 games. And Derek's a conundrum. Derek, if you're listening to this, dude, I don't know how to explain you. I really don't. And I and i say that the kindest way because he's he is an enthusiast of all. like he He goes through games. He is constantly getting new games. He's constantly buying games.
00:19:13
Speaker
um But I also know he just he doesn't care to learn the game. At all? Not really. Like ah his wife really does. Jenny's great. She, she will learn a game.
00:19:26
Speaker
Um, maybe not crazy deep, but she actually wants to know what to do to score well. And so they have a, can I ask you a question? Does it bother you if you, does it bother you if you go to Derek's house and there's a game that you know really well?
00:19:41
Speaker
yeah And then he beats you knowing absolutely nothing about that game. Yeah. It would bother me. It hasn't happened. Oh, okay. It would bother me because Derek, so like they have a Harry Potter, right? And so um I went over there and and Jenny was like, this is ah she's loving it. Like she was loving Harry Potter.
00:20:01
Speaker
and And Derek's like, it's good. i don't There's a lot going going on. I have no idea what's going on. i was like, do you want to know? like Do you want to know what's going on? I'm like, let me this is what's going on. This is how you start a lesson. like Once you're in this, this is how you do this multi-ball. And it's just like...
00:20:16
Speaker
Because he had put time on it, there was enough of a base that he was able like to to figure that out a little bit. Yeah, like yeah you gotta for Golden Trio Multiball, you got to spell their names. For Quidditch, you got to do this. and it's like And what was funny in our group chat after I left was um I said to GC, that wasn't a humble brag, but that's what Jenny wants. She's like, give me the GC so she has something to beat. But then I taught her how to play it. And two days later, she sends me a picture. Like, she beat it, which is awesome.
00:20:42
Speaker
But Derek, in our chat, he's like, Harry harry Potter is way better than i thought. Now that i actually know a little bit what's going on. And I'm thinking, like, why don't you do that on every game? yeah why don't you want like Why don't you want to learn every game? and And the way that he wants to play pinball is he just wants it to be immediately fun.
00:21:01
Speaker
and satisfying and and he's like he gets bored so he sets his games up brutally hard like he doesn't want a long playing game at all he doesn't he doesn't want to get bored so i've gone like he has an avengers sounds like he needs an em well yeah he's got he's got some older games that joel you'd almost be bored of every game because you'd never really get that far But I think his view is like he just goes, he plays for two, three minutes, and then he just goes to his next game because he's got a huge collection. He's got like 30 games. So like Avengers. He has Avengers, which has an amazingly complex and intricate balanced rule system.
00:21:41
Speaker
And he's got the legs jacked up easily. That's at like seven and a half, eight degrees. Like I went to play it and I wasn't having fun on it because it plays so... He has precision flippers in it.
00:21:51
Speaker
That's how he it came. It shoots so fast. I'm like, here I am trying to play the game. yeah And it's like, this game is so brutal. I can't even... I can't even play the game, but yet he loves it. Like he loves, he's like, I don't want to get rid of adventures. on I love it. feel like that makes no sense to me. Like I almost feel like if you, right? Like that doesn't, because if I was going to have that many, I'd almost want to see more of each game. I, does he cycle games really fast then? I feel like I would cycle through them really fast. He cycles games fast, but here's the best part of all this is like,
00:22:24
Speaker
He's not wrong. Like I can't, I can't sit you sit here and tell me know him he's doing it wrong. Like that's what everyone to do it really. He's an enthusiast. Like then, and that's, that's what I'm realizing. The more that we do this hobby is, is we all do it differently. Like we all do it differently and none of us are doing it the right way or the wrong way. And that's, and if you realize that, how do you as a manufacturer, as a designer design for that clientele when, when,
00:22:52
Speaker
When your clientele is like, yeah, I want to i want to grab that nine-year-old who plays pinball for the first time in his life. I want to grab him and and want him to play more pinball. But then I also want to keep Escher Lefkoff entertained with the rule balancing that I've built into this game.
00:23:09
Speaker
And I want to have enough wow factor to keep a person that's going to just loves the look and feel of a pinball machine. in her like It's impossible. it's It's impossible. And I applaud people for trying. That's all I can. Yeah.
00:23:24
Speaker
Yeah. I don't know. um Speaking of nine-year-olds playing games, Pokemon. Pokemon, I want to talk about it. Are you saying that the game is made for nine-year-olds? Oh, yeah. Baby game. Baby game. No, I'm not necessarily. Ralph, you had one and it's gone.
00:23:39
Speaker
Right? Yeah. I had one. I streamed it. It's gone. Tom, you never you bought one. It was gone. Yeah, you had one, streamed it, and it was good. Pokemon? po I never streamed it. i had it I had it for maybe three or four weeks.
00:23:54
Speaker
Yeah, gone. and Yeah, it just it just really didn't grab me. Like, I just thought it was too easy. I'm sure they're going to put more into the code, and maybe at that point I'll go...
00:24:07
Speaker
okay, you know, like maybe I want to get this back in, but I just, it was, it was almost too basic for me. And like, and I think that's just more the pinball enthusiast in me. That's like, I just need a little something more here.
00:24:27
Speaker
Yeah. And so that's, well, Ralph, it's, it's left your house. Why, why did it leave? Why did it leave your house? Well, Well, it's funny. I'm going to tell a quick story, then I'll answer your question. But it's it's relating to Pokemon. So we I travel to Chicago a lot for work because I cover Chicago. And my but buddy Sean lives there. And so like every now and then I'm like, hey, are you anywhere near any place local, either Pinball Capital or somewhere? And he's like, actually, i'm kind of in the area around Interium if you want to go play. And Interium is weird right right now because it seems like they're doing... It almost feels like they're kind of...
00:24:58
Speaker
They're divesting pinball over there. I don't know. My my understanding is they've changed management there. And yeah, it seems like pinball's kind of
Influence of Schedules on Pinball Choices
00:25:07
Speaker
going away. I mean, they shoved it in this back room where you can't even see it. So you you don't you wouldn't even know if you came in and went through, because it's kind of like natural for you to go to like the desk up front or go to the right. unless Unless you're bowling, you wouldn't even see it because it's tucked away in that like bowling area way in the back. Right. um So it's kind of it's kind of a bummer. But we go there to play and ah they had just, we didn't even know and they just got Transformers.
00:25:30
Speaker
and but but But I was like, oh, let's just play a couple games of some other things. And then ah then everything we wanted to play, people were on. So i was like, let's just play ah a quick game of Pokemon because Transformers right over there.
00:25:41
Speaker
And ah we're we're playing Pokemon and and he he was like, he he might as well, he could have had, I could have had like a bunch of cold cuts out, a sub. He could have been like making a sandwich while he was playing.
00:25:53
Speaker
i was like, this doesn't seem that fun anymore. It's just, I don't know. After a while, you just kind of, I don't know. It lost its appeal. But I will say, For me, though, it's tough because I didn't really grow up with Pokemon. My kids did like the Pokemon Go thing for a short period of time, and that was kind of it. like I didn't have kids that were really into it.
00:26:13
Speaker
so And it wasn't a theme I was really into. So I had that going. Going into it, it's hard if you're buying into a game where like the layout is kind of simplistic and you didn't really grow up with the theme. yeah I will say though, like at the just from a basic level, it is very fun to play though. yeah It's a fun game to just have a couple of games on. Just for me, it was a combination of a couple things.
00:26:35
Speaker
I really do think they're going to have a struggle with the code based on the Pokemon company because it just seems like they have not really been able to do a lot of the things. and They had a lot of really exciting ideas and i'm I'm sure maybe eventually they'll get those things into it. But you know we we all know that when you buy it into the new inbox thing, for the majority of the time, you're going to get where you're going to get in the beginning and then it gets better over time.
00:26:57
Speaker
And I got a little impatient with it. And then I thought, okay, this is taking up a spot in my collection yeah where I think I'd rather have something else in here. Not to say it's not a good or fun game. I just felt like I didn't want it occupying a spot in my collection if I wasn't over the moon excited about it. So I just moved it on because that But I realize a lot of people what the appeal would be because it's it's pinball fun like you have. Oh, yeah. There's a lot of fun
Harry Potter Pinball: Complexity and Community
00:27:22
Speaker
to be had with it. So I totally can see how someone would like it. I could see it being a great first game for someone because it's easy to explain what to do.
00:27:29
Speaker
Getting through the modes is fairly simple. yeah Starting multi balls. There's a couple of easy options. I mean, hitting the ramp twice for the Pikachu one. That's that's hard. Is it twice? Three times. Twice or three times. Yeah. Those are all like really achievable things for someone new. So I get where it's popularity. Like it doesn't surprise me that it's selling well because of the theme and because it it is, you know, I know we use that word approachable a lot. It is really approachable.
00:27:53
Speaker
So, yeah but for me, that was kind of, I have to think very strategically about, I only have 10 spots and if going to occupy a spot, I have to be sure that that game's one that I want to stick around for a little while.
00:28:05
Speaker
i I assume as like... I say only, that's a lot of spots, but... Yeah, yeah. I assume as a location owner, like if if I heard Pokemon was coming out, it'd probably be the probably the first game I'd want to get. Oh, yeah. You know, like I'm sure the game prints money on location.
00:28:23
Speaker
I... ah The... Even with bare bones code it has, you know, which isn't, I mean, ah it's not to say the game's bad code wise, cause it's not, it just like, you know, when I went to media day, like I just felt like I got through the game very quickly.
00:28:42
Speaker
and that yeah so but i also yeah so what i what i find interesting with pokemon is the first day i played it the first day i streamed it i was over the moon i was like this game's awesome like i loved it felt it felt it shot well it was shoots really well fast i'm like i this the simplicity of it like it's all here and then it was like over the next few days i realized like i'm seeing jarzard every time like it's this game's really simple and then I quickly realized it reminded me once again when we interviewed Keith Elwin I had streamed Munsters a few nights before and I Jared and I loved it the simplicity of Munsters it's like oh you just do this this and this and boom you're in Munster Madness and and I remember asking Elwin I said
00:29:28
Speaker
Like do you like monsters got a ton of crap from the pinball enthusiast crowd that the game's too simple, but like there's fun and simple simple can be really fun. Do you think we'll ever have a game like that again? And at the time Elwin's like, you know, if we're charging people 10 plus thousand dollars for a game, we need the game to have 10 plus thousand dollars worth content. That was his view. And it was like, huh, okay.
00:29:51
Speaker
um And it's interesting, you know, streaming even a game like Toten where this game, you know, came out in the 90s. The code that's in this game is not deep. It's not like there was a time where that that was that depth was okay. And i feel like I feel like that's where we're at with Pokemon. I'm i'm really curious to see where this code is going to end up because if it's just going to be...
00:30:12
Speaker
depth, not complexity of like, oh yeah, you can just collect more or you can just go to more regions. I don't know. Like that's not as apt. I just feel like they designed this game for the masses. They did not design this game for the three of us. They designed it for Just yesterday on Facebook, I saw Moonshot Games, our local board game store, bought Pokemon. They don't own any pinball machines.
00:30:36
Speaker
They posted that a like something new for us. We bought Pokemon because they do card too. It's like, yeah, no wonder this game is crushing with sales. And I think by the vast majority of people that play it, which are novice players, they probably love it.
00:30:50
Speaker
It's Pokemon. Yeah. Like, so it's a success in Stern's eyes all day long, right? Like I, and I would assume this Pokemon's a success in pretty much every distro's eyes too. If, if, if games are leaving the building at Stern, it's a success. Yeah.
00:31:03
Speaker
But here we are, the pin site crowd and we're like, eh, I will say, though, you guys talk a lot about on the podcast, ah you have some pretty good discussions around what should someone's first game be. And I know Travis is big on theme. and ah But I will say this. My first game was Jurassic Park.
00:31:21
Speaker
yep And if my first game was Pokemon... I would have felt a little better about myself at that time because skill level yeah, because Jurassic Park is a tough brutal game.
00:31:32
Speaker
That was a really hard game to start with. Yes. And so like that's where I would almost disagree with Travis's pick the theme part because I was excited that it was Jurassic Park, but I wasn't making any progress toward anything.
00:31:43
Speaker
Really? mean, if I got T-Rex multiball, I was like having a frigging party and inviting everyone over to celebrate. like Because it was rough back then. so um So I can see, though, like if someone asked me what, and they did like Pokemon and they were looking at getting a new game, like ah their first pinball machine, i could see where it would make a really fun first at-home ownership experience for someone. 100%. And i I don't want anything that we've said to...
00:32:11
Speaker
dissuade somebody from getting Pokemon. Like, i honestly, I don't want anything I say to dissuade anybody from any theme or pinball machine, because yeah when I got into the hobby early on, like I took opinions very, uh,
00:32:27
Speaker
heavily yeah of other people and i found out later on like i shouldn't really listen to those people you know kind of thing like i enjoyed these games and when i listen to other people like i don't really like it you know well then i thought you know should i not like it exactly yeah yeah You bring up a good point though, depending on skill level, you could think about this with anything. So um i I went snowboarding with this, this is years and years, years ago. I went snowboarding with this guy and he's like, I knew he was like way better at snowboarding than me. And I think I'm pretty good. I'm i'm not great, but I'm pretty good.
00:33:04
Speaker
And he he's like, all right, this is going to be the first trail we're going to hit. And the location we went to, I'd never been to before. And he set we go on like a double black diamond. and and And I told him before what my skill level was.
00:33:16
Speaker
so I'm like, really? That's the decision we just made? And I was struggling, man. like I was like fearing for my life in most yeah um most... And I made it down, but i was like, okay... I had to have a conversation with him. i like, dude, I don't think you realize how much better you are.
00:33:30
Speaker
So like for him, that trail was easy. But for me, that trail was, it honestly, I thought I was going to die. yeah So, but, but like that, he's the kind of person that he was like not taking into consideration my skill level at all. Like he completely didn't care. yeah so But that's the thing with pinball. If someone's awesome at pinball, their game recommendation might be something completely out of touch for my skill level. So exactly it's a good point.
00:33:56
Speaker
It's a really good point. And I would say as as content creators, not to like pat ourselves on the back or give us something we don't like. I don't know. I i agree. I don't want. I want people to enjoy the hobby more from listening to our content. And that's not me trying to shill it like, oh, buy, buy, buy everything. It's just like, I love this hobby. I know the two of you guys love this hobby. And I would love for other people to love it too. So I would never want, yes, I would never want anything we say to bum somebody out or be like, oh, I was all in. I was ready to go on Pokemon. But now these three idiots are telling me it's too simple. Like, nevermind, I'll go buy a boat. It's like, of you know, like, I don't know. But that's a side tangent. Anyways, um Pokemon is cool. i I would like to stream it again in the future. i think it's an amazing location game. I will gladly put quarters in it when I go on location and play it. And while you guys were talking, I thought like my buddy Derek doesn't like Pokemon. Like it's a theme that doesn't resonate with him.
00:34:56
Speaker
But like I think Pokemon would be a great game for him. He doesn't want to learn the rules, and he wants something that plays fast and just gives you immediate, like, boom, oh, look, Meowth multiball or Team Rocket multiball, boom, oh, look, he's in Pikachu multiball. Oh, look, like it's got all the stuff there for that immediate satisfaction kind of stuff.
00:35:13
Speaker
Absolutely. Okay, so another game that I think is immediately satisfying is Sonic. I am i am personally loving Sonic. and I'm going to get to you, Ralph. Tom, have you played it yet?
00:35:26
Speaker
Yes, i actually went to Jersey Drak. I called them up. That's right. Yeah. Get me in. i don't care what I have to do. I'm just kidding. i asked ah I asked if I could come check it out and I were more than willing uh got to talk to joe katz and eric and uh it was uh it was a lot of fun uh yeah i thought the game was just it was really enjoyable and actually had one on order i canceled it for now because i just got two games in
00:36:03
Speaker
yeah so i literally transformers literally got transformers and beetlejuice and i'm like i gotta pump the brakes a little bit yeah so like yeah so uh but i i i have a feeling i'll i'll probably get it sooner than later yeah okay so i'm let's put a pin i'm gonna i'm gonna ask you about beetlejuice but our we'll start on We'll stay on Sonic for a second. So that's, I knew you had a good initial impression. I remember you messaged our chat about that. Yeah. um
00:36:34
Speaker
Ralph, you've unboxed it. I know you and Rudy streamed it. Yeah. You know, you've had it, what, a week now, two weeks? Like, what are your, what's your initial thoughts on the game? Yeah, I and first of all, I love the fact that it's it's as fast as it is. Oh, yeah. and I love that um because I feel like it's they I think it was purposeful to say Sonic's fast. Let's make the game fast.
00:36:55
Speaker
Got to go. so So I love that part of it. i I think the thing that's interesting, though, from having friends... I had a couple of friends over, so, like, of different skill levels. And and everyone... Like, the the the baseline thing is, oh, my gosh, this is so fun. Now, they're both Sonic fans, so that was also cool. But they were like, oh my gosh, I love this. This is so fun. And the thing that they thought that was going to be... the deterrent was the upper play field. They're like, oh man, I don't know how I'm like the upper play field.
00:37:21
Speaker
But once you, and of course you're going to go up there the first time for most people and it's, you're not going to really realize what's going on or how to play it well. And then you're you're going to drain and it's, but you're not going to, you know, you're not going to have a new ball. It's just going to go back to your left flipper and you and you can continue.
00:37:37
Speaker
But they really had a lot of fun with that. And then once they started learning it, I was like, well, those shots can get you like progress you faster because they're more challenging up there. They started then looking at the lights and going, oh, I'm going to try to do my checkpoints up on that yeah upper play field. And they got really into it. So I'm excited sometimes to see other people play it to see if if they're having the same reaction as me.
00:37:59
Speaker
um The other thing I think is cool is just I like the idea that I'm playing through zones of the level ah of the of the game, you know of the actual like I can't remember what platform generations was on, but whatever you're playing like a Saturn.
00:38:14
Speaker
don't know. Dreamcast. no I don't know. I have it on my Switch. I actually downloaded it because I wanted to get more familiar with it because I actually never played Generations. But I like the idea that you're going through zones. I like the idea that you can do different things to get to the final boss that will help you, you know, help you in each one of those zones. Like if I'm going to collect emeralds and collect rings and the more I do and the faster I do it, I'm going to get tiered ah differently when I finish it. So like now I'm...
00:38:42
Speaker
So each individual zone can be also challenging. Like, let's say I want to focus on Green Hill. I can go, I really want to S tier Green Hill. yeah And so like, I can just focus on that if I want.
00:38:52
Speaker
That's all my I'm going to do. i'm going to try to get really, really good at this one or that one. Um, I really like the Chaos Emerald and the Chaos Control thing where I have timed zones that I can actually pause the timer and yeah give myself a better chance. I think that is ah a cool element they put into it.
00:39:11
Speaker
I also love the Bash. I can't remember. is it Bash? that No, not Bash Dash. Bash Bashdash left shot, right? That's Bashdash, right? Yeah. Yeah. yeah I like that. That's actually pretty challenging though for me. During multiple. Yeah. I'll lock it once and I'll be lucky if I hit it one additional time to get the multiplier. Yeah. Um,
00:39:31
Speaker
that I'm trying to like figure out how I can get better at that left shot. That shot's pretty tough. But I mean, overall, I I'm enjoying it. mean, I'm enjoying it a lot. And I think there's, you know, it's unfortunate that some of the feature modes aren't in it yet because I keep, I keep qualifying casino. I think it's casino nights and I can't do, yeah I can't do it yet. So, so that that's cool. Cause there's more to come.
00:39:52
Speaker
But you know i i don't think it's easy to integrate a video game property into a pinball machine. And I feel like they did a really good job doing that. um Yeah. The only feedback I get from people, people are constantly asking me now that they know I've played it.
00:40:08
Speaker
They're trying to, number one, pin it against other Jersey Jack games, this or that. This or Harry Potter. And that's so hard because... Like you you look at Harry Potter in this game. They're so different that, oh yeah that like that alone, I go, well, first of all, they're very different games. So now going to go back to like what theme speaks to you more.
00:40:24
Speaker
And then we can like back end into the game. um But yeah, don I'm, I'm, I'm thoroughly enjoying it, but the thing about having it at home and playing it 200 times is of course now I'm, now I'm like craving the additional stuff. That's sure. Sure.
00:40:40
Speaker
Which, yeah, so few things. ah when it come my My son. So I had i had Pokemon here for like well over a month. And um I will tell you, he's um six.
00:40:52
Speaker
And he has played Sonic more. like he Oh, wow. And it's not that he's a bigger fan. It's just like he is he has gravitated more to this game. And... and um He's played it more. and And I think there's part of Pokemon that's actually kind of hard. Like starting the the Team Rocket multiball is not the easy. Like the game can be fast. So it's not, I don't know, at least for Calvin, like he did struggle with that. But what he's really enjoyed Sonic. um My buddy Chris and his son O came over today. um he he lives locally. So normally when I have games, it's like, yeah, guys, if if anybody wants to come over and try and give it a shot.
00:41:27
Speaker
Chris came over, I explained a little bit of the game, and he loved it. Chris was just like, dude, I just have a smile on my face. like like Once he got on once you figured out how to get to the upper play field consistently, um that upper play field plays so well. And there's so many good shots up there. The fact that if you hit up the middle, it'll kick the ball out to the right flipper. You can hold the right flipper up, and it'll bounce over and get to the left flipper. like You have control, even with that huge gap up there, to do what you want to do.
00:41:56
Speaker
which is really, or or or I've even, and I bet you guys have too, where you can have it kind of go off the right flipper, bounce off the middle post and get over to your left flipper. Like you actually have really cool control and there's so many unique shots up there. um Awesome. Another thing that Sonic has done so well, and this is my this has been my biggest complaint with with JJP games for a long time, is they make beautiful games with amazing lighting.
00:42:22
Speaker
But if all the lights are going at all the time at all times, you have no idea what you're gonna do. And this complexity, and then also with everything stacking on top of each other, it's it's impossible. They didn't do that with this. Like they they have more LEDs in this play field than any of their other games. But when you're actually playing, almost all the inserts are off.
00:42:43
Speaker
they're They're off. Only the inserts that matter are on. So at quick glances, when you're like, oh, I need to get to my next checkpoint, only the blue inserts are on. That's it. There's nothing else distracting you, getting in the way.
00:42:55
Speaker
But then you hit your shot and it's like, all the inserts will turn on with a really good animation, you know, like yeah quick grab. And it's like I whoever I don't know if that was like a team meeting or what, you know, like what's our biggest complaint? ah You know, it's too much all the time. They they figured it out like this.
00:43:12
Speaker
This game has a better light show than all their previous games. And also it communicates better, in my opinion, than all their previous games. yeah Have you have you noticed that, Ralph? No, I agree with that. And only because when Rudy came over, ah we he played like maybe two games before he streamed it.
00:43:29
Speaker
And I was like, all right, blue. I go, remember when you're going through a Sonic game and you have checkpoints, those are your blue shots. So, yeah and he's like, okay, well, what do those do? I was like, super simple. Look at the LCD if you can glance at it every now and then it'll tell you how many more checkpoints you have to get before you can do your Eggman battle.
00:43:45
Speaker
He's like, okay, that's cool. And i was like, but if you're, when you're doing that, if you want to collect rings, those are your yellow shots. And I was like, and what's cool about that is you can get an extra ball. If you get a hundred of those, he's like, okay. Like he understood it really quickly. And there's, we all both know this. We all know there's way more than that to it, but that's cool to be able to give someone that basic,
00:44:04
Speaker
like outline of what to do. and And he was like having fun right away. And I do agree that when we played Harry Potter the first time, his his comment to me was and I love that game, by the way. He was just like, man, I don't know what ah there's so much going on. Yeah.
00:44:21
Speaker
Jared Jared was the same way. 100 percent. Like that's Jared's view on Harry Potter. I played Harry Potter over at Derek's house. And once again, I'm like, this game's so good. Like Harry Potter truly is incredible. And but I know i've I've spent the time to know what to do to learn how to do it.
00:44:35
Speaker
My brother on the other like he just was so overwhelmed in the two times we streamed it. He's like, nah, like he just cheers like matt too, too much, too much. Yet, like immediately he latched on to Sonic like just. Yeah. Because it rewards you. Just go fast. You're not overthinking it. You're just trying to just play. Just hit the blue shots. And and it's simple without being boring or simple. Like, I don't know like he can actually beat a zone and start getting into another zone. And the zones get more complicated. The fact that before you plunge, you can hit the middle button and try other zones. If you really want to challenge yourself, go higher up on that ladder and try some of the other zones. And those shots are a lot harder. or You have to hit shots multiple times to get the checkpoint.
00:45:17
Speaker
um I think it's brilliant. Another thing that they did, which I think is so, so good. We've talked about this before on the pod on the podcast is um you don't want to you don't want to hide a mech behind code. Right. You don't want you don't want people to not experience a mech.
00:45:32
Speaker
And the fact that when you hit start, Eggman comes out and you can't do anything else. You can't do any. You can't progress anything else in the game. for 20 seconds because it wants you to get up top.
00:45:47
Speaker
So it's teaching you right up the middle or left ramp. This is what you're going to do just to get up there and bash him one time. Like that's, I, I, do you guys know of another game that does something like this? Because if you drain,
00:46:04
Speaker
He laughs at you, ah you know, and he goes away and they kick the ball out and then you start. But it's like the fact that they give you that for every single person that hits start has a chance to experience that mech without there being a penalty is brilliant.
00:46:20
Speaker
Like, I think that is so well done. And if you do it, there's a reason to do it. If you do it, then it increases the value of your boss battle jackpots or whatever. But it's just to have that at the beginning of every game, I think is so smart. And I don't i don't know of another game that has like some crazy mech that you want to interact with. And I mean, like Batman 66, you got that crane mech, but unless you start the penguin, yeah you're not gonna you're never going to see it, you know?
00:46:49
Speaker
And I'm not saying anything against Lyman, but it's that was the first thing that pops into my head. Like, I... I don't know. i i mean, I'm trying to think of a game that I jaws popped in my head, but like jaws, the shark, the shark pops up like that's something that almost anybody can see.
00:47:07
Speaker
Right. Most people will see the shark pop up at some point. um I don't know. I do you guys. I mean, I guess you could say in a way John Wick encourages you to bash the car right away, but not like not like does in Sonic.
00:47:21
Speaker
No. No. I don't know. I'm trying to... If yeah if anybody's listening and yelling at their they' car radio or whatever, send us an email at tripledrain.gmail.com or comment below in the YouTube video. Don't get into an accident.
00:47:34
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No. um But I just think that was really... ah You want to make sure if you're going to put really cool mechs in a game, you want you want everybody to experience it. But also, not immediately get bored of it either. And I'll i'll tell you, i've I've battled Eggman many, many, many times. And that's not...
00:47:52
Speaker
it's not boring. Like he, the way he moves around the way that he gets out of your way. oh yeah. The up and down was a brilliant, the fact that they got that mech to go right to left and up and down yeah is cool because there times, like I didn't fully get that the first couple of times I played it and I was like, Oh my gosh, as I'm progressing, he's going up and down a lot more and you're, you're missing him. And if you, if you sit, if you set it up right, you can kind of miss them and still keep the ball up there. But sometimes you don't. And then there's that again, you're like crap.
00:48:20
Speaker
He went up. I missed it. yeah then you But that's the cool moment because you're like, oh, man. Yeah. duke You said you got to get back up there. So that gets you excited to go back up there. um Yeah, it's cool. That mech is really neat in a way like what it does. Like that's it's it's pretty really cool. Yeah, it's pretty really well done. And I I think we are we're gushing a little bit on on Sonic. But I know my brother immediately after the first stream is like this is the best JGP game like he's like that to him.
00:48:48
Speaker
like Did he play Elton John? I don't remember if you guys streamed that. We had lot of fun with Elton John. I can't remember. Elton John's fantastic. Don't get me wrong. Elton John is fantastic. But this game, there's something about the theme and the fact that the theme is all about going fast.
00:49:02
Speaker
Let's be real. If you were playing Sonic on Sega, does anybody really have that map in their head? Like, like, actually does, but it's like, you know, when you play the original Sonic, it's just like just avoid spikes and just keep going. yeah Just hope, you know, and I feel like this game encourages that. And that one more the the pacing is there.
00:49:26
Speaker
And the one more game feel, I've been i've been hitting this start button a lot because <unk> yeah it's like, all right, I want to focus on just going fast on this to get you know the lowest time possible. or you know what and And you had said there are there are checkpoints that aren't in the game yet. So the one the the one that you were talking about, casino, that's if you beat two bosses. And I've done it. And it's lit. And you hit it and nothing happens.
00:49:48
Speaker
um There's another mode. It's Master Emerald or something. It's the green shots. It's all in the upper play field. I love modes like this where it's a you You have a to-do list almost and it's something you're chipping away at throughout your play.
00:50:02
Speaker
In the upper right, it'll give you tasks you know like five of these and 25 spins and five target sets. and If you do all those things... Once again, it's lit right up the middle. I've done it once. You hit it.
00:50:13
Speaker
Nothing happens because it's not in the game. yeah so it's But the fact that it's there, but they're they're dangling the carrot. These are achievable mini wizard modes that I'm excited to get to. And um yeah, i'm I'm really loving the game. Really loving the game.
00:50:28
Speaker
um I'll be very curious, Ralph, when you've had it, because this sadly will probably leave in the next week or two because... Zach's got to take it back. But I do think this is a game.
00:50:40
Speaker
i know this is a game that that's where I'm, I am spoiled in a way where I get ah I get to play these games for two, three weeks and then they're gone. And I, and I know very quickly the games I miss.
00:50:51
Speaker
And, uh, I think there's a chance there's a chance. Um, You brought up the lighting. Well, you brought up the lighting and I like this. up There's two things lighting related. I guess you could say, i don't know if you, if you consider the rings lighting, I guess I kind of do like oh displays. Oh yeah. I like the fact there's two things I really thought were pretty clever that they did. I like the fact that the rings are kind of directing you to shots in some cases, especially when you're up or play field. They've got like the arrows and things like that. But I also love and it took me like a couple of games to notice it. I don't know why. I love the little lights on the upper play field that yeah that light for whatever that shot is. So when you go up there, if you're looking for checkpoints, you'll find right above that shot. They have those like little cool LEDs that light up for that for that color of that shot.
00:51:35
Speaker
That's cool, too. Well, it can't have an insert. It's a transparent it's a transparent play field, so there can't be an insert. But you no, the lights communicate so well. Yeah, the only thing that I... the only thing And i know this might not even be possible licensing-wise, but something that would be so cool...
00:51:52
Speaker
I just don't know if they could do it, is if they had a video mode where you could maybe play a part of a 16-bit Sonic level with your flippers and your action button or something. like Maybe one of your boss battles is traditional... That would be really cool, but I think licensing would probably yeah prohibit them from doing that. But that's something where if if I wanted like a wish list, I'd be like, oh, that could be a cool little thing that you could add to it. like Maybe add like a couple of Genesis levels in there. Yeah.
00:52:18
Speaker
Not the full thing. Maybe it's like you beat them and there's some kind of special thing. Kind of like how like Black Knight or ah sort of Rage gives you like the old version of it. like if if Imagine one of the boss battles.
00:52:30
Speaker
you You beat it. It locks your ball down at the bottom. And then all of a sudden, you you have like a secondary boss battle, but it's all 16-bit on the back. And it's just a video mode. That would be really cool. but That would...
00:52:43
Speaker
But they just, yeah, they did a lot of cool stuff. And I know having, um it' I think it's Trevor Snyder, the guy that, one of the guys that helped Bill grew up with the code. He's like a super Sonic fan. So he added a lot of, I don't know if he encouraged the music too, but the music is, like the music and the sound effects are all familiar to someone that likes Sonic. So when you hear like the rings or the checkpoint noise, there's something like oddly really satisfying about that.
00:53:07
Speaker
and it and ah And because they didn't change those too much, like the modern era sound effects are pretty much the same as the old ones. They're just yeah higher quality, really. yeah but So I don't know. i'm I'm having a blast with it, but it will be interesting to say like a couple code releases from now, how like how does it progress and am I going to like it more? Probably, but that's to be determined, right? Yeah, absolutely. How is your guys' matt the magnet mechanism working?
00:53:34
Speaker
Oh, the ramp? Yeah. The accelerator loop? or Yeah, the accelerator loop. So I had heard some people were saying, and I did not have this problem at all, but I also realized there's, you know like you were saying before, setup.
00:53:50
Speaker
Is your game leveled? What pitch is your game at? I did hear certain people saying that sometimes that accelerator loop will go straight down the middle. Mine... pretty much consistently goes to the right flipper. And every now and then, if it's going at a fast pace, it sometimes will veer off to the left one. yeah But I've never had the straight down the middle. But I did notice something the other day because it went through the accelerator loop and I fumble ruskied it and it drained and it gave me a ball save immediately. So I don't know if that's in there.
00:54:20
Speaker
Because sometimes it could go straight down the middle and it doesn't want to penalize you for that. I'm not sure. but i Yeah, I haven't had a single failure with it. I forgot to mention the right ramp. The fact that...
00:54:32
Speaker
you can barely hit that right ramp and it just sucks the ball up and it's so satisfying. It's so satisfying. Yeah. Because normally, you know, if you just barely hit a ramp, it's just like you prepare for the, you know, it's coming back, it's rolling back. And this it's like, if you just barely have to hit that first, I'm assuming opto,
00:54:55
Speaker
to to recognize the balls there and it fires those magnets and just sh it just sucks the ball up and it's it's so far it's a shot I mean I love shots like that in pinball that feel good every time the schnick shot in in uh deadpools one or the katana ramp in deadpools one it's like it feels good every single time you hit it um and I'm putting that sonic right now this right ramp feels good every time Well, I think it's called Spin Dash. Is it Spin Dash? Oh, when it holds the ball? Yeah. That's pretty cool, too.
00:55:22
Speaker
Yeah, it is. I don't know. it's just a little... The one thing I can't figure out, I'm wondering in that green area that you're trying to get to, like yeah the red and the green, Do you think that you get more? I haven't noticed. Do you get more points if you're in like the middle of that band? I don't know. i have no idea. We're going to have Bill Grupp on stream this week. So that's definitely something I'm going to ask him about. But I don't like so far. I've never not got it in the green zone.
00:55:46
Speaker
And my points have varied drastically. So I don't know if it's how quickly you can get in the green zone. If you center it in the green zone. if I don't know. So hopefully we'll we'll get an answer. What it what about that topper?
00:55:59
Speaker
Okay. Topper school. This topper is, I mean, honestly, it's incredible. Yeah. Um, it's, it's incredible. I will tell you though. I i don't, you never look at it. No, you can't ever.
00:56:10
Speaker
It's so high up. You never look at it. The only time i so that the only time I ever look at it is when you're like counting, you drained or something or counting up, or it's your, you have a moment to pause. I have no doubt for like location or something that that's a, people are going to notice that or tournaments cause it'll show score and whatnot.
00:56:28
Speaker
Um, But I don't know. i just I don't say that in any way negative. But even when I'm watching Jared play, there's so much more I'd rather look at than the topper. So i'm in the i'm in if you're if you're in on a collector's edition, you're not going regret it. The game's incredible. the the the The glitter and everything is awesome. oh yeah If I was going to buy this today, i would probably go one tier down just because I like the blue powder coat and all that. But at the same time, the arcade edition of this is still killer.
00:56:58
Speaker
Oh yeah, because you get the same game. I mean, it's great. It's the same game. um Yeah. ah I want to ask you guys about... Yeah, so just to wrap up on Sonic, i i I'm really, really, really liking it. And i was I'm a Nintendo... Like, I'm a Mario kid. I never had Sega. I've never cared about Sonic at all. And my kids like Sonic because... I don't know why. I don't know if it's because there's cartoons or something, but... Maybe the movies. Did they watch the movies? Yeah.
00:57:26
Speaker
Yes. Yes, they did. But I know there's other cartoons on. They know more about Sonic than I do. And I just never. So i it's not like I don't like it. I just don't care about it. And yet here I am like this game's incredible.
00:57:38
Speaker
This game's really, really good. So I'm hoping i'm I'm waiting for more people to play that and really give it a shot. But yes, the number one question I get every single every time we've streamed this. Like everybody. This is Harry Potter. This is Harry Potter. This is Harry Potter. So Ralph, I need you to answer that question.
00:57:54
Speaker
Just ah go really no No, not to put you there. I'm not going to put you there. I honestly don't know how. And I feel like people are get frustrated with me. And I just go, they're such different games. Why not both? right if you' have un limited funds i mean, if you have funds, i can see where like Sonic would be such a great compliment to Potter. If you were had like a collection of JJP games, cause it's so different. It's cause I feel like Potter's fast, but Sonic's like really fast compared to, compared to ah Harry Potter. i mean, there's nothing really slowing the ball down on either one of those games back to the flippers really. So um I don't know. I did. They're both really fun, but I, I struggle with it yeah and I, you yeah, I struggle with the answer to that. I don't know. you,
00:58:39
Speaker
Tom only owns one of those. So I think Tom answered it. I think Tom picked Harry Potter is what I'm getting. I might own Bolt soon. So yeah if I was forced to give an answer, you could say that if if you wanted a code of a more code complete game, then Potter is going to be that for a lot longer than Sonic. like Sonic's going to take probably a while to get to where Harry Potter is. So it's almost like unfair at that to put them against each other for that reason. Because one is like, one it's still a lot of code in Sonic, but it's not close to Harry Potter yet. To me, you're comparing apples to oranges. The games are so different.
00:59:18
Speaker
and me eat I mean, I'll i'll answer it. ah If I had to buy one today, I would buy Sonic. just Really? Okay. That's for me and my household. And what i the reason I would do that. It's because Joel can't get the scoop.
00:59:29
Speaker
That's what it is. I can't start a lesson. I can't start a lesson, right? You can't get that scoop. No, my my wife is a huge Harry Potter fan, and she enjoyed Harry Potter. She's like, Harry Potter is good, but she never had any idea what she was doing. Never.
00:59:42
Speaker
And then my brother who streamed it multiple times with us, he's like, nope, too much. Like he's just, and he's a stubborn, he's a stubborn guy. So he's like, nope, too much. It doesn't want to learn too much going on. um I say that I played it the other day and and just like, man, Harry Potter really is so good. So yes, I'm going to have their bias, you know, touch on that. But I also honestly, and this is a question for you guys, like when you play pinball,
01:00:07
Speaker
At your house, are you like mentally being like, I'm going to go play pinball and you just mentally know this is going to take an hour or like how much time do you allot yourself to go play pinball?
01:00:21
Speaker
Because if i'm If it's a work day and I get off a call or something and just want a mental break, like I don't have 45 minutes to go play pinball. I have five minutes or 10 minutes. Yeah.
01:00:34
Speaker
And I can tell you right now, I can get more satisfaction out of Sonic in five minutes. than I would playing Harry Potter for five minutes. For me, it's more of a wind-down thing at the end of the day. So it's like, okay, ate dinner.
01:00:49
Speaker
Okay, what do I want to do? going to go play some pitbull. How long do you think you would play... what do you think how long do you think you would play any like it just depends on my you know what i'm feeling but i mean if i'm like oh i you know i only have a half hour but i really want to go play pinball i'll just pick it go down okay i'm gonna play this game and whatever happens happens and i'll turn it off i mean or i'll work on some stuff like okay you know kind of what about you ralph
01:01:22
Speaker
ah That answer is a little different based on what because my this is the office I work out of when I'm working from home and not traveling in my the garage is like right there. yeah So but I only have usually it's like, OK, only have 15 minutes. So if I it would influence the amount of time would influence what game I jump on, like the game I actually play a lot when in between calls is The Walking Dead, because although I've gotten a lot better at that game,
01:01:46
Speaker
Typically, those games are going really fast for me, but now I've gotten better at it and I understand it more so I can kind of get that game to play longer. But it always seems like when I only have 15 minutes is when I'm having like a good game. So I'm like, shit. But yeah, it would be time. Because at the end of the day, my wife works weird hours, so sometimes she's not home until like 7 o'clock. So then my choice is going to be something I know I could maybe...
01:02:12
Speaker
have longer like play time on. So that's how I would choose. Like it's more, I might choose the game based on how much time I have. So i absolutely. And I, I know, I mean, Godzilla, I, when I had Godzilla here, it's not my parents. Like I really didn't play it much. And that's normally because I would come down and I'm thinking,
01:02:33
Speaker
I only got 10 minutes. I only got 10 minutes. i only got 15 minutes. And like, I just didn't want to dive into Godzilla, which could, which could be a long game. I just, I would want to, and part of me normally, I just always gravitate to whatever game I'm borrowing.
01:02:48
Speaker
That's true too. Or the newest game, the new game, like that's the game I want to spend time on. But some of these games, um like I loved the Hobbit, but the Hobbit, every time I'd play it was such a journey. Like, I'm like, I don't have time. I don't have time to play.
01:03:02
Speaker
The Hobbit right now, even though I really enjoy that game. So I think I like having faster games that give me that immediate satisfaction. But yet at the same time, if I know I'm going to stream a game for two hours, I don't want a game that I'm going to be bored of 30 minutes in. i want, I want the game that gives me.
01:03:22
Speaker
So there are some games that I love streaming because I know I'm mentally committing two hours to it, but that may be a game I don't turn on for a week because of it. I, but I'll turn on the games that give me the, the fast instant games. But, um,
01:03:37
Speaker
All right, Harry Potter, um where you guys have both owned it now for a while. So what is there anything that has ah like good and bad? Is there anything that now you've owned it for a while that that's kind of gotten old or it's not as well? Or there's other like here I've actually learned to appreciate this part of Harry Potter more.
01:03:58
Speaker
be you know over time or i don't know overall just thoughts of the game of being owners for a while um i had tom go first i said ralph i'll let you i'll let you go first this time ah there's still There's still stuff I haven't seen in Harry Potter. so that you know I haven't seen everything.
01:04:13
Speaker
so yeah To me, that's that's good because if it's going to be around for while and you're going to invest that much money in a game, you kind of want it to be something where it's going to take you a while. I will admit, though, as I cycle games through a lot, so i have it's like almost a treat to play it now because I don't go to it as much because I go to the newer games. but So I'm actually progressing even slower through it.
01:04:34
Speaker
Uh, there's not a lot. I don't like there's, it's really hard for me to be critical of that game because it's just so fun to play. I don't have anything where I'm like, man, I wish they did this or that. Like, i I mean, I guess I could, you could easily come up with the whole, Oh, I wish it had a castle inside it, or I wish it did all had these things, but that's like, it doesn't have those things. So there's no point in me like fantasizing about what it could have had, but I think they did a really good job with it. It's one of those games where,
01:05:00
Speaker
it's still so It's still there for a reason. I'm still having a really good time with it every time I play it. And people that come over really enjoy that game. um I don't really see it going anywhere. I never want to say bolted because I used to say that. And then, of course, those games would would leave for whatever reason. But...
01:05:17
Speaker
I still have more to achieve in it. So I'm enjoying it and I'm going to keep it around. i don't see it going anywhere, to be honest. but That's great. Tom, where are you at? You you already sold it? No. No. he's he's no no Actually, like I think it was last month. i I streamed it a lot because I was trying to get to the end, which I did. Well, I didn't get to the... I didn't finish the wizard mode, but I got to the final wizard mode.
01:05:41
Speaker
time said I remember last time we recorded, you were you were just a few people away. Yeah, I have to kiss you, Joel. So watch out. He did it. So huge, huge thank you to everybody that did that, that that supported him after because we saw it over the next few days. I was trying not to bring it all Oh, thank you. So you are officially, what are you? you' The internet never forgets. Partner Plus.
01:06:06
Speaker
There you go never everybody yeah so So what does that give you? It basically just gives me ah like a little more percentage of like subs. So yeah it gives you like an extra 10%.
01:06:23
Speaker
uh so of money yeah yeah yeah so you're quitting your day job right right right because of all the money it's so much so so much yeah okay like sorry for the interruption you those sonic coins or rings you know it's just like ringing in no it's it's not that much but yes thank you for all the people that that showed tom on love but it's a very appreciated thank you so much All right, Tom, sorry to interrupt your, you tell me more about Potter. that's okay. I, I like Harry Potter is just one of those games I really fell in love with. Like I just, but I, I really liked the movies. Like when I first saw it, like my, mom my wife had me like kicking and screaming, like, I don't want to go see this kid's movie, you know? Like, and like when I went and saw it, I was like, this is really cool.
01:07:12
Speaker
You know? And like, then I was like, well, I want to see the next one, you know, like kind of thing. And, And i don't know, I just really like the movies and stuff. So like bringing home and having the game and it's just a really good experience. I feel the the pinball machine brings the movie out.
01:07:35
Speaker
yeah And, ah you know, everything's there. And they did such a good job. You know, it's not it's not like this half-baked thing. It's it's it's just really well done. And... and Like when I play the game, i like it's an adventure for me. Like I want to get these whole cruxes and I want to try to get these multi balls. And it's just, like I said, it's just so well done. It makes me come back for more.
01:08:05
Speaker
And, you know, i it's not going anywhere. I can tell you that much. Hey, that sounds like a pretty good endorsement, right? That's awesome, Tom. Buy a Harry Potter, send me a Czech jersey, Jack. No, it's awesome. And I will say when I was at Derek's house and was explaining the games to them, I quickly realized, like, that's what really showed me. I'm like, all right, I'm going to start a Quidditch battle. Here's how. And then I was like, when I start it,
01:08:32
Speaker
the the snitch is somewhere on the, you know, like they didn' they didn't know. they and I'm like, look for the white light, you know, ah cradle up. And it's like, it's over here. Now it's over here. And then it like went on one of the middle shots and I was like, oh, it's there, boom. And then I hit the shot and collected it, you know, like to have that little moment. And then I and then i wanted to show them the Death Eaters multiball.
01:08:48
Speaker
and I'm like, well, let me get through two Death Eaters. Check this out. you know And they really did a great job really did a great job with that game. so What was really cool, like when I streamed it, i I learned from people in the chat. like I didn't know there's there's a mode up the middle where if you do well in the mode, it makes your Golden Trio's multiball easier.
01:09:13
Speaker
Oh, I didn't know that. Okay. Yeah. So it's like, it's like, I'll have to look up what it's one of the, um, uh, I forget what it is, but I forget the exact mode, but I know what it is on the play field, but, uh, it's like five shots and they're hurry ups and you have to try to hit the hurry ups. And every time you You hit hit one of them, it like makes part of the Golden Trio's multiball easier.
01:09:41
Speaker
so Because you have to complete that to get to one of the like ultimate wizard modes, right? You have to hit a super jackpot to to get the whole crux. Yeah, the Golden Trio. Yeah.
01:09:52
Speaker
yeah Okay. ah Do you still have to hit the scoop to start a lesson? Is that that still... Yes, Joel. Come on. Why do they not have that? Give me the setting. My game, it's not super hard to get in the scoop.
01:10:09
Speaker
So like it could just be the game you had. okay um It could just be Operator. It could just be me. It could. It could it could just be me.
01:10:20
Speaker
But I mean, yeah some some games are you know, the shots are harder than others. you know I mean, I get it. If I if if i was Eric Menyer and he's like, hey, you have to get an Omegatron scoop to start a mode there too. What the heck? you know like You know, like, I get it. I get it. So I just, yeah. But no, it's really, ah JJP two for two, their last two games.
01:10:43
Speaker
they're really i'm I'm really impressed with with what's going on for sure. um We mentioned it earlier, Tom, you unboxed.
Beetlejuice Pinball: Design Challenges
01:10:52
Speaker
Beetlejuice. I know, Ralph, you have a Beetlejuice. You still have it, right?
01:10:56
Speaker
i actually got I actually traded my Beetlejuice in to Zach. Oh, okay. I haven't told anybody that yet. For Sonic? Well, sorry. don't edit it. I'm not editing it. don't edit it. That's fine. art That's fine. okay Okay. So we got Ralph, it's it's out the door, and Tom, it's in the door. So ah let's start with Tom. Your initial impression, you went Butter Cabin, too. I'm Butter. I went all out on it. I really like the game.
01:11:22
Speaker
I think there's a lot going on and it it's kind of got some quirky things, ah but it's kind of fun. i was i was happy that ah I could actually get it in the, what is it, the worm's mouth?
01:11:37
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. yeah um But yeah, overall, I think it's a fun experience. I mean, like as a tournament player, I'm not like, oh, hope I see this on a tournament. But it's a fun, you know, it it is what it is kind of thing. It's a fun fun game to play.
01:11:58
Speaker
You know, yeah I enjoy What... what um I think I personally think Beetlejuice, they did so much right. So much right.
01:12:09
Speaker
ah But I do know, i mean, my one my one struggle with that game was the left shot, the left orbit, the left shot that feeds the biggest complaint of that game. OK, well, you talk about it, Ralph. oh That's my biggest complaint, because I feel like.
01:12:25
Speaker
I want to i want to like explore that area. i want to do the couch multiball or whatever it's called. and i But it was hard to hit the ball up there? No, I can hit that shot. It's just the fact that you have to lower that flipper so fast. Oh, sure. the right flipper, yeah. Otherwise, you're not going to make... Yeah, they go yeah I noticed that.
01:12:44
Speaker
I've heard Bug talk about it and he's like, well, that was the challenge. But I don't know why, but for me, that design choice, I didn't like. That's just sure that's just for me. but That's fair. But what's weird about Beetlejuice in general, my first entry into Spooky was Evil Dead. And i and i and here's what's weird. If you said Evil Dead or Beetlejuice, what theme do you want? I would not say Evil Dead.
01:13:06
Speaker
sure I would say Beetlejuice. But I like Evil Dead more. And I think a lot of it just has to do with I don't love and I know now you can lock in the modes. I didn't like at first that I got to shoot that weird shot over on the left to change the modes.
01:13:21
Speaker
And um I don't I still haven't figured out how you lock it in. But supposedly you can lock in the modes now so you you can like choose it and lock it or at least you can lock the one it's on. But I still don't. Someone messaged me how to do it. It didn't work. So maybe I'm just doing something wrong.
01:13:35
Speaker
But I liked on Evil Dead how you just select the modes from the start. I thought that was cool. I picked the movie. I picked the mode. and I enjoyed that. um I don't know. i just I'm not always about too so much stuff on the play field. For me, it was almost too much.
01:13:51
Speaker
but it was beautiful. But, but my buddy Rudy loves it. Like he, he's like, I can't believe you got rid of it. and i was like, I don't know. It just wasn't for me, but he's like, don't get rid of evil dad. I'm like, I'm not. So, yeah um, yeah, i don't know It just wasn't like my favorite one, but I, I have to give it props where it's due. Like it's beautiful.
01:14:08
Speaker
I can see if you really liked Beetlejuice. Like if you were in love with the movie, I don't know how much better they could have extracted. Like the thematic stuff is so good. Um, And the modes are creative. Like there's definitely creative things like the as seen on TV, kind of like the box thing. Like that's cool. Yeah, that's pretty cool. i I didn't love I might be in like a weird percentage of people here. I didn't love the day. Oh, mode, to be honest. i I wish there was a way I could go.
01:14:35
Speaker
Yeah, I almost wish that i could defer the day mode after experience it a couple times. Just right. Um, But I mean, overall, like I can see why people like it. it just This was one that it wasn't 100% for me. And again, it it went into that conversation of if it's filling a spot, do I want that in there?
01:14:54
Speaker
Or am I happy with my Evil Dead as my spooky spot? And then if Goonies is the next one, ah and if Spooky keeps continuing to to do things the way they do them, and people are just like the... the um interest level is going to remain high, then I almost have to buy into it without even playing it, which is probably what I'm going to have to do. I have very high hopes for... think Goonies is going to be really cool, and I do think Spooky will do a good job with it. So I'm excited to see what they do there, if that is indeed the next game.
01:15:24
Speaker
Yeah. um Yeah, you actually said all that... I agree with all that. Um, I think Beetlejuice, you know, to cart back on what we were talking about earlier, you know, there's a lot of collectors out there that just, that's a, like, I think this, I think Beetlejuice is going to be a game that's always going to be worth money because it's a great theme. The art is incredible. I see you're wearing a Franchi shirt there, uh, Ralph, the arts incredible. They, they got all the the assets, the sound it's all there. And so I think,
01:15:56
Speaker
there are people that they don't care about difficulty of x y or z or depth of what like they just to just step up and have a good time and experience beetlejuice that game you're gonna have a good time yeah i think spooky's doing their thing you know they're not gonna they're not gonna be swayed by like everybody's opinions and stuff they're just you know they're doing it their way and they're doing it well Yeah, they're proud of what they make. They should be. They're proud of what they make and they they sell out instantly. Like it's all what more, you know. So I do think when you this just popped into my head, but I know I had the same frustration. You'd hit that left shot and you'd accidentally be holding up the right flipper and you want it. What if they would have made the upper right flipper a separate button?
01:16:38
Speaker
If they would have done that, just have two buttons on the right side. Like what they did with the hidden hidden flipper on on Evil Dead? Yeah, if they would have done that, just two flippers on the right side, and then you wouldn't accidentally hold that right flipper up.
01:16:54
Speaker
Like, I don't know. i think that have... could have been cool, actually. Yeah, that could have been cool yeah I think that potentially... So somebody will mod their... Somebody will drill hole in their cabinet and mod their ma their game to do that. but I'm not doing that to my butter cabinet, I'll tell you. No, I bet that butter looks red. Let me tell you, like...
01:17:10
Speaker
The way they package that thing, i mean, was wrapped in a blanket. Yeah. Two blankets. Ooh. Two blankets, more saran wrap than you probably needed.
01:17:21
Speaker
A lot of cardboard. i mean, it was like I was taking the thing apart and it was like, I need a manual to take this thing apart they you to get to the game. yeah Yeah, it was really well packaged. So JJP games have rad cows, which are basically thick plastic and is printed on the inside. And then um I forget what barrels of fun calls it, but it's basically the same thing. It's a rad cow. Yeah, it's beautiful. What would you prefer, a rad cow or a butter cabinet?
01:17:49
Speaker
direct Butter cabinet is direct printed on the wood covered with a clear coat. Do you have a preference on? I guess I guess I'd want the rad cow because you could replace it probably easier. The durability of it. Yeah. yeah I mean, the the problem with the butter cabinet is like if you actually damage it you're not fixing it.
01:18:09
Speaker
but yeah That's a good point. Just dim the lights. That's the only thing. But you look at the like the way the butter cabinet pops. i remember when... think it was Brian Kelly who actually...
01:18:20
Speaker
like when i think it was brian kelly who actually like he came up with that concept, I believe. Uh, he had it on like a fishtails cabinet and I was like, Holy crap. This is yeah excellent. You know, but it's just like, you know, that the art just pops. It's clear coated. It's, it's, it's nice.
01:18:43
Speaker
Yeah. Well, I don't doubt it. um All right. Well, we, we have a little bit of time left. I do. I'm just going to straight shill. Cause that's all we do on this this show, right? Is just shill. But I have a totem here. And, um, just what I will say about totem is I never had time on one
Game Remakes and Collector Preferences
01:19:00
Speaker
outside of this. Like, I think I'd played a few games.
01:19:02
Speaker
Um, I don't know you guys have probably played way more totem than I have. And, um, I, I probably played it more than me. I am super impressed by this game. And not necessarily the game, because it's still toting. Like, if you've played Tales of the Arabian Nights, this is Tales of the Arabian Nights. The code has not changed.
01:19:22
Speaker
But what they've added, and I say they, Pedretti, what they've added into this game with the additional lighting... is beautiful. Like the way the mode, the whole atmosphere of the game changes, but being on what mode you're in, because the whole lighting scheme changes. The light show is beautiful. They added extra LEDs under the ramps.
01:19:41
Speaker
Beautiful. the question for you is that like which version is that this is the limited edition i think is what it called so there's the anniversary edition which is the brian allen art okay then there's this edition which i think is the limited edition okay which zach has for sale so she'll she'll she'll um if this edition is the original art oh that's right yeah we should do it yeah bye bye from travis if you If you want to do that, you know, Pimbal Company, let's give him some love because he's not here, right? That's right. um
01:20:12
Speaker
Do you get the same? Is it just aesthetics? It's just the artwork. That's what's crazy. Nothing different between those other than aesthetics. It's the artwork and the powder coating. This has like a black sparkly powder coating. The the anniversary edition, I think, is what it is, is it's purple powder coating with Brian Allen art. Otherwise, all the light show is there.
01:20:33
Speaker
um I am such a sucker. We've talked about this so much on Triple Drain for DMD artwork. DMD artwork. The fact that they got the CGC crew to do all the coding for this with the same artist that's done all the CGC remakes to put in this XL display with these amazing dots.
01:20:52
Speaker
It just unbelievable. And that's all like software driven, right? Because that's not, it's an LCD screen, right? are They just made it look really authentic to recreate that. Yeah.
01:21:04
Speaker
And it was, what was cool last time we streamed it, we, uh, the last game I played, you can turn on the original DMD. Like you can play it. You can play it. And it's just to see these like basic animations after you're so familiar you' seeing these these new colorized dots, it's amazing what they've done. So what I would say is I do feel i had i had streamed Funhouse, ah the Funhouse remake by Pedretti. I had streamed it.
01:21:32
Speaker
And the 2.0 code that they did in that wasn't the best. And I had some issues with the game physically, like the build quality of it. What Pedretti has done with this, they now use the fast system, which is the same system I know, like all the barrels of fun games use. There's another manufacturer that uses fast.
01:21:50
Speaker
I've had no issues. Yeah, Pinball Brothers has it in Predator. I don't know if they did it prior to Predator, but. Oh, okay. Yeah. But the fast board set, I've had no issues. like the game just The game feels... It's super heavy, too. That's what's crazy is I moved out two Sterns, Pokemon and Transformers left, and what did I bring in? this Sonic weighs like a half a ton. Sonic is so freaking heavy. It's so It's so heavy, man.
01:22:18
Speaker
Toten was very, very heavy. So it's it's very well built. It's very sturdy. I mean, there's really nothing I can say about Toten other than like I've beaten the game. Me, my skill level, I've beaten the game.
01:22:31
Speaker
I've gotten to the wizard mode when I streamed it the other night. I got to the wizard mode four times in two hours and I beat it twice. So it's like that's that is the depth of the game.
01:22:42
Speaker
That is the challenge of the game. but it's from the 90s. They've talked about extending the code. I'm all for it. Like, yeah, I would love there to be more challenge or more depth.
01:22:53
Speaker
um But I would put this right next to like Monster Bash where it's like, if you focus, you can beat it. But just, if you just want to step up and have a good time, amazing mechs, simple, easy to understand what to do.
01:23:08
Speaker
It's just fun. And i don't know, if somebody, i would i would, if people are on the fence, if you like Toten, you will like this game. Like, it's the best version of the game you'll ever get. There's no way. And if you like scoring exploits, look up Kaylee George.
01:23:25
Speaker
i don't I'm curious. They said they've changed some of the exploits. So I don't know if that's... We will see. We will see. ah But yeah, to do either of you guys... Are either of you guys in on one of these? Are you interested in on one of these? I mean, what's your thoughts on just Tales of the Arabian Knight as a game in general?
01:23:43
Speaker
Who wants to go first? We'll go Tommy Boy. What am I questioning? what Do you like Totem? Do I like Totem? Or would you buy this game? That is a really tough question. When I first got in this hobby, I looked at that game and I was like, wow, i really want to own that.
01:24:02
Speaker
And then I played it. And for some of the reasons you just answered, um i think the code's too shallow, like way too shallow.
01:24:14
Speaker
So my answer would be at this point, no. But if there is code upgrades, I might consider it. um I just...
01:24:27
Speaker
I guess I'm just not big into the whole belly Williams remakes, maybe because I've sought those games out so much a and I've already gotten through a lot of them that I'm, and I've played enough of them that I'm kind of like, ah, there's really just nothing. i that really tricks my fancy, I guess when it comes to older games like that, sure. Like somebody remake, uh, like,
01:24:57
Speaker
I don't know, like a game plan game like say ah Cyclops or Cyclopes or whatever you want to call it. you know Do you know what I'm talking about? No. So you would rather them remake like something that's hard to find? Yeah. i mean that's I mean, really, isn't that why they did Cactus Canyon?
01:25:16
Speaker
Yeah. Have you, you had at one point had thought about getting a cactus Canyon. Have you i did i played the, the, the addition kit and all that? The only time I've played it was at Papa last year. Okay. Um, and i haven't really had a chance to get one, although I've seen a lot of them for sale now.
01:25:40
Speaker
So I think I'm just, I might pick one up that that's for sale if I want to pursue it, but I'm kind of, it's kind of one of those things. It's like, only have so many games, so much space, you know, like I i do like trying newer stuff though. Yeah.
01:25:57
Speaker
So yeah. Yeah. That's fair. um Ralph, what are your thoughts on Totener? Because you don't own any of the CGC remakes or anything like that. No, the only CGC game I ever owned was ah Pulp Fiction, which I enjoyed. um yeah I played a lot of this game virtually.
01:26:17
Speaker
That's how I first experienced it. Yeah, then same with me. Yeah. And I think it's because it was like a pack-in game with something. I can't remember. One of the virtual software ever that came with it. So like I think you just got it. And that's kind of how I started playing it. And then there was a local bar that my wife and I used to go to. This is kind of like when I was...
01:26:35
Speaker
very casual pinball. Like I didn't play it daily. And my wife loves that game. She thinks it's super cool. Like she loves every, she loves the sound effects. She just really liked it. And she understood the game and what to do to your point about it being like oh very understandable rule set.
01:26:52
Speaker
Um, am I going to get it though? I don't, there's like part of me that's like, I could get it. And I think it'd be fun to have because my wife would probably, I do think about like, is there a game that my wife would like to, she'll, she'll play Harry Potter. She really likes Harry Potter. That's good. So, so if I brought it in, it'd probably more be more because I know she'd play it with me than it would be that I'm like, have this deep desire to have it in the collection. It is a cool game though. And they did what they did. looks really pretty. My only reservation would have been, and you're kind of making me feel little bit better about it by your comments is,
01:27:25
Speaker
I had heard like not so great things about the Funhaus remake reliability wise, but it sounds like that's been kind of squashed with this. Like they've really done a good job getting the quality where it needs to be.
01:27:37
Speaker
So I guess I'm on the fence, but I, it is, it is a fun game and I think my wife would enjoy playing it. So my motivation would be more because she would like it. And so maybe I'd bring it in for a little while, but it's also not cheap.
01:27:50
Speaker
So it's not like it's a cost effective remake. But I'm kind with you, Tom, sometimes it's like, do I want to fill a spot with a remake or do I want to fill a spot with a new game? Right. But I do see where like that game people like it. It's often brought up as a game people enjoy. So I can see why they remade it.
01:28:09
Speaker
um and there and But yeah, so I guess my answer is I'm on the fence on it. And my motivation would really be more because my wife likes it. then I'm ah if Travis was here, he would he would be he would be giving you a hard time. Why? Because he said if you if there's a game that your wife likes, you buy the game. That's what he bought. you know Monica
Anticipation for Dune Pinball and Podcast Dynamics
01:28:31
Speaker
got Pirates. That was every time I talked about Dune, he's like, you're an idiot. Your wife likes Dune.
01:28:36
Speaker
Why have you not bought Dune? Oh, so you didn't listen. So you listened to Travis's. No, I am buying Dune. It's just not. I'm one of the last manufacturer ones. So it'll be here soon. but he's like what is your problem your wife likes dune by dune because that's where after dune was here that's what my wife compared every game to she's harry potter's great but it's not as good as dune speaking of dune uh ralph have you owned any the barrels of fun games just labyrinth just labyrinth okay i wanted a winchester so bad they got it at the you guys know the guy he's in the community his name is ozzy
01:29:11
Speaker
Yeah, I've heard of him. He's all over the place. Like he's one of these people that watches everything. He's really nice guy. he's got He goes to shows. He's very, very nice. He loaned his, he bought it from someone here in Arizona and he loaned it to Electric Bat. And so that, I went down during the day because they're open at 6 a.m. to 2 a.m.
01:29:29
Speaker
So I got there really early in the morning when no one was there really. there Believe it or not, there are people in Electric Bat at 6 a.m. But i got I got myself out of bed. and i i dragged myself down there and I played it a lot. And i'm like, man, this game, that game is so cool. It's so good. It's so freaking cool, though. like yeah It's unique. The shots are unique. The audio package is like yeah incredible. Yeah.
01:29:54
Speaker
incredible. Like Jeff and the team that he assembled to do it. It's so talk about a game that sucks you into the world of the, this haunted mansion. It's like, Oh my gosh, it's almost a shame that there's only 525 of that game. It it is a shame. it so It's one of those things. It's like, I think they made the right call.
01:30:13
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. i do too, but yeah. I can still be upset about it. Of course. We're not going to blame David or Carl. Same reason I can be upset like there's no more evil deads. Yeah, exactly.
01:30:28
Speaker
ah Yeah, I mean, you know if they would have said, well, there's unlimited, everybody would have went, well, I'm just going to you know and that And that's what happens. you know yeah it's got to be Pinball needs FOMO.
01:30:44
Speaker
Yeah. and Yeah. It's well, I mean, we're seeing that with Sonic right now. A lot of people I've talked to where they're like, man, Sonic looks good, but what's the rush? They're like, they're not, they're going to wait until TPF. They're going to wait until Expo to play it. They're going to wait till there's like, what's the rush? I can get a, I can get a game wherever. So so they say they're not building them anymore. Right.
01:31:05
Speaker
I know. I mean, and that's kind of what happened with Dune. i mean, there was yeah kind of there, they sold more. announcement what else Oh yeah. If, if JJP, is a great game tomorrow at that, yeah, I'm, I'm pumped for that. But if they're like, okay, we're, we're going to shut off, you know, you have to put in your order for Sonic by, you know, you have a month, like, you know, a bunch would go, yeah but, um,
01:31:28
Speaker
Well, yeah, just to wrap all that up, I will say ah where I'm at is, honestly, I like having a Bally Williams-like game in my lineup. That's why that's why Cactus Canyon is here. um It's just very approachable. Anybody can play it.
01:31:41
Speaker
But like I'm right. I feel like Toten, if I was to replace Cactus Canyon today, i would probably replace it with Toten. But I'm waiting to see. like I really am curious to see what this additional code is going to be.
01:31:56
Speaker
Have they committed to that? Have they committed that they're going to do that? have They have committed. So on Loserkid, they said, yes, they're going to do extended code. where The vibe is, the only thing I'm hearing is it's basically take the code and they're going to make it so the modes, you can probably complete the mode, but you can continue.
01:32:12
Speaker
And if you do, it almost sounds like you're going to charge the jewel. So if you play these deeper modes and you end up, when you go to Battle the Genie, all your jewels are charged. I'm assuming there will be an additional...
01:32:26
Speaker
wizard so the vibe i get it would be the same as monster bash it's either you you do monster bash but if you get all the instruments then you get to the whatever the real one is like the deep one is so know i'm very curious to see what that is um but yeah it would take a lot for me to give up cactus because this has more depth like i haven't gotten to high noon yet in the new code um which keeps me coming back um I'm still holding out hope. X-Men's sitting right here. Still, I'm holding it out. I'm holding out hope. It's going to happen eventually. If I brought X-Men back, that would be times. Three times. I'm good with it for right now. brought John Wick back or no?
01:33:05
Speaker
I did, and I freaking love the new code. it is so It is reinvigorated John Wick for me. yeah It's a shame that it wasn't like that from the start, but man, it's so good now.
01:33:16
Speaker
yeahp And that's the whole, look at the smile on your face. It's so freaking fun. I want people to say that's about X-Men. yeah That's what I need. i need, I'm, I'm the hope is there. The hope is there. me Joel is what I posted. When I posted that John wick came back, I got like,
01:33:31
Speaker
80% of the comments were like, oh, man, that's awesome. And 20% were like, yeah, well, when's X-Men going to be like that? like I want to feel that way about X-Men. There was literally like 20% of the comments were X-Men people being like, I did not comment. I did not comment. But it's it's hope. And the truth, that like you look at ah James Bond. James Bond, when that game came kinging out, people were like, what wow, this game. is but but but and then now look at it. It's great. That's another great one. my gosh. John Wick. Like, what the heck? You know, and then now it's great. It's just like, that's where I'm just like, please come on, Stern. Just don't break that streak with X-Men. I'm going to keep, please do it, please. I'm going to throw this out there for anybody listening. If, if you need,
01:34:13
Speaker
ah you know, help with the new code, you know, testing it, Joel or i would be willing to test it for you. Yeah.
01:34:24
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Joel can throw you ideas. I'll just say it's good. Well, there's somebody who's floating a rumor that like Ray Day's on the code and I'm like, I saw that. Please don't. No, there's no way. Like, but I would love George. Hey, George Gomez, I don't know if you listen, but if you do listen, like, I don't think Ray's doing anything. Like, just put Just put Ray... like he can He can fit it in. Just put... Just you know just say whatever. Tuesdays and Thursdays. Ray, just work on a little X-Men. That's okay. Ray's crying in the corner because he's like, how come I can't get Ralph to figure out how to use the Jedi Ball Saver? I've explained it to him 700,000 times. I think he's... yeah Should have got a pro. fan yeah Honestly, that is one where I feel like the pro is more than adequate for that game. I...
01:35:12
Speaker
i do you know how to use the Jedi ball saver? And it, it's really fun. I have a pea brain. I can't figure it out, man. Every time I try. yeah Oh boy. Well, blame Ray. I like blaming Ray. It's, it's always it's easy to do.
01:35:28
Speaker
All right. Well, I think that's ah that's it for topics and we're running low on time. So i told my wife done at six. You didn't cover Transformers, but you you can't. We did Transformers at the beginning. Yeah, we did. We did? You remember that? We've been here for so long. I forgot.
01:35:40
Speaker
i forgot already, I guess. We'll just loop back. We'll loop back and stick with Ralph. I expect that out of Cal, but not you, Ralph. know. I'm like, we did. Well, I would say this is an episode of Triple Drain where I feel like we're approaching the end and I don't feel bad about myself. You know, like it's not to have somebody not just just knocking on me all all the time and just give me crap all the time. It's kind of nice. and i the best part is I know for a fact Travis won't listen to this. he' There's zero chance. You don't think you'll go back and be like, I want to see what he's too busy. He's too busy adulting. That was his word. and That sounds boring. He's like he's proud of it.
01:36:19
Speaker
I'm being an adult today. You know, it's like good for you, Travis. I'm proud of you for doing that. But all right, well, let's let's do our normal. ah Let's wrap it up unless there was anything else. Any other random thing that that that needs said or done? or um ah I'll start. I'm going to be streaming Pemberg and the Beast very soon. So I will be out on the East Coast.
01:36:43
Speaker
So streaming tournament pinball. So hopefully you watch. Uh, I know Joel won't, but probably Ralph will. So, thought a lot yeah yeah so but, uh, if, if tournaments are your thing, uh, you know, give, give me a follow on Twitch and, uh, we'll see you.
01:37:05
Speaker
We'll see at the, uh, at the event. Yeah, Fox City's pinball on Twitch, Fox City's pinball and Silver Ball swag. Unfortunately, don't have time on the weekends to watch your style notes. Are you adulting, Joel? Parenting is what I'm doing on the weekends. I got little kids that I got to keep alive.
01:37:24
Speaker
No, what is it? One of the tournaments, I think, Indisc. Indisc is like during the week, so I can have that on during – during work hours oh okay well pinberg will be during the week too so okay then i have a shot have a shot there um okay perfect thank you tom yeah like always i'm it's always the best you know i can we can find a sub for travis that's not mean how hard is that but so for you tom yeah right all right ralph uh plug away dude um yeah i uh i think i'm gonna stream don't know when do you usually air this is this gonna air like tomorrow or Probably. soon as Joel edited it. Yeah. Well, depending how... It'll probably be Saturday. Okay. Depending on how motivated I am this weekend. My wife's not working and I was going to paint this wall, but I probably will stream Transformers instead of painting this wall. So I think that's what I'm going think I'm going to stream Transformers and I just... I feel like it's a fun game. I'm having a good time with it. I already streamed Sonic. going to wait probably a little while to stream Sonic again because I just wanted to... Maybe we'll get a code update or something, so I'll wait on that.
01:38:28
Speaker
and Other than that, yeah, there's not a lot. i I traded in some games to Zach. I got some credit going on with Zach. So you never know. See, i might you might influence me and I'd be like, Zach, I want a Totan.
01:38:40
Speaker
And then going to be like, then Fallout's going to come out I'm going be like, son of a... But yeah we'll see because I really fall out. I'm really kind of excited about that. If that's the game, of course. Well, no one any L1 games are worth getting excited about. I'm excited about that. i kind of don't like how we know every title that's coming out. and I know. Yeah. We don't know barrels of fun. I have no idea what's going on there. That's true.
01:39:04
Speaker
Yeah. And I will say P3, I mean, DCC, Dundra, Carl, Carl is supposed to be coming. um I know I've read all the books. Tom's working his way through. Ralph, have you started or read any of the Dundra, Carl, Carl? No, I'm loser.
01:39:15
Speaker
Dude, it's just get the anybody listening. Get the audio books. I don't read, Joel. That's why I don't read either. do the audio books, obviously. You get an audio book and you listen to in the car when you're mowing the lawn or that's the walking the dog. I feel so left out. I feel so left out.
01:39:33
Speaker
Oh, I get it. was hoping on the last triple drain, you were going to say you weren't going to do because I'm like, all right, well, now I have another person that I know it's in our circle that doesn't. But you did it. so now I feel like I pressured it. I have to.
01:39:45
Speaker
And then if the game comes out, I'm not going know anything about it. So I'm going to be starting the sixth book. Oh, man. There's six? How many books have I made? I mean, got like a 10-hour drive to Pittsburgh. I got to do something. That's the thing. If you ever have road... You travel for work all the know. I should listen to it on the plane. Audiobooks. Seriously. It's well worth it. I'm doing it.
01:40:06
Speaker
per You don't have to read. You don't have to open a book and read a word. you just all you have to read is the title, download it on your phone, and that's that's hit play. I will say, and Joel, since you aren't going to watch apparently anything that Tom does...
01:40:19
Speaker
Tom does a lot of really cool shorts of the like cool moments. Watch those. Cause those are, at least you'd be supporting your buddy. And then, wow. See, now I'm rassing you. We found our son. It only goes one way. It only goes one way. I watch Joel's stuff. He doesn't watch me. Oh, really? Wow. That's sad. Wow. Okay. All right. I thought you guys were tight. Okay. No, I'm just kidding. I'm kidding. All right. But no, I don't remember. I wish I could recall it in my mind, but Tom, you published something. It was a short that was like some amazing moment. And I'm not remembering what it was, but it was so cool. It was like jaw-droppingly cool. It was like a save where I'm like, oh my gosh, how do you even do that? It might've been during a practice.
01:41:06
Speaker
But it was like this crazy save. Was it like a death save or was it a... Yeah, it was a death save. But I think it was during a practice. might have been Zach Parks on Iron Man. He did a death save.
01:41:17
Speaker
That actually has 50,000 views. Yeah, that was crazy cool. Wow. Now granted, on 50,000 views on a Facebook, Instagram post... You made six cents. Yes. Yeah. You're like, I'm quitting my day job. Six cents. It's the rings. Sonic rings. you know that case and that and being And that's why I will be starting hot tub streams for now. I'll look forward to those. Hey, I'll support that. I'm ready to go. fight di All right. And I do. um Yeah, I'm Joel. I do the flipping out pinball stream tutorial wise. We there was just a tutorial for Sonic out. There's going to be a tutorial for Batman 66 coming soon. I filmed the tutorial for Toten today. So hopefully those will be helpful.
01:42:04
Speaker
um But yeah, we've streamed that. And then this week we're going to stream with Bill Grupp. on Sonic so hopefully he can explain some of anything that we've missed or talk about future stuff which would be a good time um yeah hopefully we'll record again sometime soon obviously Multimorphic is going to have a reveal very soon and Stern's always just around the corner and yeah there's always there's always heard funny stuff to talk heard so people are going there tomorrow to where to P3 Yeah, it's coming soon. So something's going, something is brewing. coming soon. Chul knows everything.
01:42:37
Speaker
Yeah, of course you are. He's like, I'm there right now. No, this is a green screen. This is famous. No, no, David, I've said barrels of fun. I'm really curious about barrels of fun when their next stop is. But anyways, Jerry, yeah, Jerry, come on stage. He's there. He's hiding under Totan right now. Yeah, yeah. He's like, where's your P3, buddy?
01:42:57
Speaker
Maybe one day. He's like, you thought Sonic was heavy? Check this out. Oh, boy. All right. Well, hey, we're recording this on a weekend, so um everybody have a great weekend. But ah yeah, like always, ah Tom, you get the last words.
01:43:14
Speaker
Peace out. And I totally wasn't ready on the button, so this is going to be very delayed. Peace Double peace out.