Transcript
Speaker: We're three guys who like to talk and ball. So we came up with a clap, our name. We're Joel and Travis Dom who talk and ball. And we call ourselves Triple Drink, Triple Drink.
Speaker: Triple Drain. here we are here we are we're back again i say again because that's second time we've tried this we were what three minutes into the episode and then was all that long it it failed and it was because tom somehow unplugged his mike and it has happens what it like to say It's been a long time.
Speaker: I'm not apologizing because I did in the first take and Travis didn't like that. So i'm not we apologize for nobody, but we're here now. We're here now. It's been a long time. We recognize that. Tom has been touring touring America, streaming all the things.
Speaker: um so he's been busy like every friday going to concerts oh yeah it's the grind man so fridays and then and then weeknights were out because uh travis has been adulting which isn't i mean i get it that that happens um but here we are we're here now and uh yeah we're glad to be here we're glad to be here so Oh, what do we have to talk? We have so much. We have so much to talk about. First off, Travis, did you happen to listen to last episode where we replaced you with Retro Ralph?
Speaker: No. Okay. i assume not. I assume not. We spoke very highly of you and built you up and, and, uh, you know, Ralph tried his best to fill your shoes. He even, uh, gave me a hard time, you know, towards the end just to try to you know, make the vibe what it should be. Uh, but, uh, overall he was great.
Speaker: He was a great guest. Uh, I like Ralph. Yeah. Good guy. Yeah. Yeah. That should be our fourth right there. We can replace Carl, replace Keith, just bring on Ralph.
Speaker: Why not? I will tell you, there was one point when we, once again, it was another week where we couldn't schedule and another week when we couldn't couldn't schedule that I was like, what if I just did an episode where I got, I was like, I'll replace both of them.
Speaker: So I was like, how do I replace Tom? One of the best pinball streamers there is. So my thought was, I'll get Carl. Let me try Carl. Let me see if Carl can fill Tom's shoes. Maybe. And then I was like, how do I how do i replace Travis? Okay, who who gives me a hard time or who should give me a hard time? And my thought was Ray Day. I should invite Ray Day on because I give Raymond such a hard time that I wanted to give him the platform to give me a hard time. And i and and unfortunately, that hasn't happened, but maybe one day.
Speaker: Maybe one day. Tom is putting a dollar into, i don't see what the cup says. I'm sorry. Oh, it says Joel Jarrett. Why do I have a jewel jar? We can't tell you yet. We'll tell you at the end of the episode. Oh, great. Okay. Okay. Well. $1 so far.
Speaker: who Am I getting this dollar? Who's getting the dollar? but You're not getting the dollar. You have a lot of dollars there. what is You said your OnlyFans is not going well, Tom. You said to your OnlyFans. Streaming's been good. I can do all now yeah i could buy a DVD.
Speaker: yeah let's go Let's go. All those biddies adding up, aren't they? yeah All right, let's, um you know what, I'll lean into your tournament. Let's just start off with a fun question. ah Tom, when I think of games that have come out in the last few years, what is your favorite modern game to play in a tournament?
Speaker: Raj. That's not... That's true. That's fair. It's true. Okay. All right. um Reason I asked, I was on the stream the other night. We were, I don't know, people were talking about how Godzilla is like, nobody wants to play Godzilla or Jaws in a tournament just because even though it's a super balanced game, it's such a long playing game. I'd rather play Jaws in a tournament than Godzilla. I think that's i think that's the right answer. What does Travis think?
Speaker: ah It depends who's in my group. pe maybe also depends on the setup. Yeah, maybe the question is you sign up for a tournament and then the tournament director releases the lineup or here are the games that are going to be there. why if Would you be more excited if Godzilla's in that lineup or Jaws?
Speaker: it Again, it just depends. like if If I know I'm going to play somebody that's 40 and above, I'll play anybody at Godzilla on that. But if it's like 25 and under, i don't know if I want to mess with playing Godzilla. It's a young man's sport. You have to go you have to get $3 to $5 billion just to keep up. like it's yeah You're not an endurance guy, huh? you don't No, no. Not like that, no. It's like 45, 60-minute games. no what ah ah What about King Kong? does that Is that similar vibe or is King Kong faster?
Speaker: o Not a pop of 22. Depends on the setup. Yeah. If you go to like Jag pin after, the setups got better.
Speaker: Oh, okay. It's kind of one of those things where you can make a game play super fast if you really want to, but at the same time, it's like you don't want to kick somebody straight in the nuts every single ball either, depending on the format. so I mean, it really depends on, like Travis said, the players that are on it because the upper echelon players, it doesn't matter what you do to the game. They're still going to find a way to like crush it.
Speaker: That true. Yes. And the problem is once one figures it out and because everybody could watch, everybody will just replicate what they're doing anyways. That's kind of where everything goes immediately.
Speaker: That's, that makes sense. Uh, I like Jaws, though. Jaws is fun. Jaws is fun. I guess my answer should be, which one do I have more fun playing in a tournament?
Speaker: Probably, I would say Jaws. hey Just because I think it's cool to hit the fin, you know, to finish everything off, get a higher machete. yeah like I kind of feel like it's not so...
Speaker: linear in that way. Whereas Godzilla has like very specific pathways you need to go to, which is pretty much any tournament pin, but yeah at least for Jaws, I feel like I could accidentally screw up and then pivot to something and still eventually end up back to where I originally wanted to go to.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. Um, it's a shame that Elwin peaked with jaws because, uh, the rumor on the street is that, that his next game is, is just dookie. It's just not good.
Speaker: So, and you know, we've seen, you look at, you're not going to let that go. you, you, you you see pin side reviews. King Kong is not up there in the same ballpark as, as jaws and, and, uh, as Godzilla. So just, I mean,
Speaker: Just standard trends, you know. that is this are we Are we seeing the d did the decline of Elwin here? I mean, not not my words. I just, some people are saying that. I mean, it kind of sounds like your words right now. What what do you think, Tom? i It's all Joel. no I know.
Speaker: Wow. Yeah. All right. um Why are you calling Elwin's games dookie? I just, I had reached out to ah someone I consider a friend, you know, like a trusted source, um ah maybe somewhat of an insider. At least I think he thinks he's an insider. And, you know, I just said, hey, you know, have you seen Fallout, which that's the rumor, Fallout, and where does it rank and in the play fields of Elwin? And the reason I asked that, because I actually streamed Avengers over here last week. That's a good game. That game, I think Elwin himself has said that he thinks Avengers is his best layout.
Speaker: And it ah the way that that game shoots, i don't it's a hard one to argue. That game shoots so, so well. So that's when that's why I asked the question. i'm I'm very curious to see where Fallout is going to fall.
Speaker: There's a pun. Sure. In the world of layouts, you know, the shots and layouts of his game. So I'm excited. I mean, if you want to, we can just say a bunch of nonsensical stuff and just start a bunch of rumors. Like when people are like skipping around and everything, and it'll get out there either way. Yeah. We could totally that.
Speaker: could. We could put it into the world. Yeah. yeah well Seven ramps. Yeah. Yeah. There's, there's seven ramps in the game and there's like a pit boy that you actually control off the lock bar. Like deep root yeah tried to do it first. And Keith obviously saw slide your left hand, your hand in there. Yes. A hundred percent. Yeah. the girl of funds like shit We should have thought of that instead of like, actually has a nuclear explosion and you have to buy a new play field.
Speaker: Yeah, that's that. That's intense. Okay. Yeah. Well, I think it, uh, I mean, hopefully we'll see it soon. i but I would, I can almost guarantee that. How do you even know it's fallout though? Like, how do you know? How do you know? I don't, that's the rumor. I'm just saying that the rumor. you hear That rumor from.
Speaker: Uh, you know, the interwebs, the dark areas of the, the, the, the internet. I love, I love a good pinball rumor. My favorite is when you see one come out and you're just like, that's totally not true at all. And then you just watch it just go it ends up like on this blog, on this blog, on pin side, the YouTube videos on Facebook. And I'm just texting Tom, like, what the hell are these people talking about? hmm. I love I need to text Joel and say that I need to do that yeah you don't i maybe you don't have my number because I don't really ever get texts from you maybe um we need to talk more about ah we are excited for we are excited for Fallout or whatever Keith's next game is hopefully it'll be here in the next few weeks so there's a good chance it's going to be out and we'll be talking about it on the next episode very much looking forward to that very curious to see what also you know are we going to see any ah any changes like Spike 3 is out Spike 3 is here but they haven't had a price increase for a long time is this game potentially gonna have a price increase i don't know uh yeah there's a lot we're we're in a wait and see situation there with with stern uh you had mentioned ah weird rumors i know so when dungeon crawler carl was heavily rumored and very clearly you know everything was pointing towards multimorphic
Speaker: Jason Knapp, who I do like, I like Jason a lot, I like his site a lot, but he posted that he thought at that time he goes, I think Barrels of Fun and Multimorphic both have a Dungeon Crawler Carl, and they're both going to be releasing their own game. And that was one of those rumors that I was like, how?
Speaker: How in the world are we, how? There's no, like there's zero chance. And obviously that, that was not the case. That would be kind of weird. To be fair though, Joel, you and I are in a position to where we kind of knew the answer to that in a way. Yeah, that's, that is true. too But it also just like what, mean what, what license would sell the license to multiple manufacturers at the same time? i don't see how that Only fans pinball, baby.
Speaker: Yeah, get it all out. um Get all the Gooners out there. I do want to mention real quick, the Pokemon Costco edition, I find really intriguing.
Speaker: how said i And I just find it intriguing. I'm assuming... i'm Never mind. I don't want to put words in your mouth, Travis. But as a as a dealer, i'm I'm guessing you're all for that. Because it's... it's it's ah Somebody's going to be walking through Costco. They got their 84-pack of you know double D batteries or whatever. And they're just like...
Speaker: They see, oh, pinball machine. I didn't even know ping pong. I didn't know they made that anymore. You know, walk over, play it. Yeah. Let's throw back of the truck. love ping pong. Yeah. and then And then six months from now, they're like, pinball's greatest thing ever. Oh, and then they stumble upon your website or they stumble upon another dealer. And all of a sudden, like I understand, it's it's a a it's it's a step into the the pinball it's a way to be known yeah so it's like if you if you read facebook i haven't seen it on pin side but on facebook at least there's some people that kind of go the gatekeeping route it's like well why would you know why is this here why is it the young but
Speaker: But it's like, you know, everybody discovers pinball in their own way. Yeah. And really it's, it's like, if you truly want pinball to grow, pinball is not going to grow by us three knuckleheads, you know, talking about pinball to people that already know pinball, right? It's just us just further solidifying what's already here, but in order for it to actually grow, it has to break out of that ecosystem anyway. So the best way to do that is you put it out in front of somebody. Now it doesn't guarantee that you know, a mom and dad are just going to walk in and drop $5,000 like it's nothing at Costco on a Sunday afternoon. But it does say that it kind of gets it going in their head. And, you know, it's a big purchase. So it takes for a first timer, it takes many touches for them to see it and discover it. And that's kind of what, you know, we've talked about off the podcast before. That's, I think it's good just for people to see it, whether they buy it or not, at least now they know it exists.
Speaker: And it's kind of one of those things, if you know something exists, all of the sudden you start noticing it everywhere else. Like you might notice it on TV, you might notice it in your algorithm. Like if you search on Google, all of a sudden now that algorithm will start feeding up ads to you or something different on Facebook real, like anything like that. So think that's, that's probably the most important thing out of something like this.
Speaker: Yeah, i I do think it's, ah I find it interesting though, because as a as a pinball enthusiast, i was never like I was never tempted by the home versions of the game. you know it's It's like if I really wanted to own Star Wars, I know that Star Wars Fall of the Empire is a much deeper, much more fleshed out, better version, better game than Star Wars Home Edition.
Speaker: Or same thing with Jurassic Park. Like it wasn't... it You only know that because you know that though. do. I'm not. Like that's the thing. It's hard for us to kind of conceptualize not knowing pinball at all and not having any basis to think about it from. Correct. What the angle I'm trying to come at though is now if you're already in the pinball hobby and you want to buy a Pokemon, the fact that the Costco game is basically the same layout with basically the same rules It's weird. It's a weird thought to be like, okay, do I actually, do I even need the Pro? Or should I just get the Home Edition? Like, it's that similar of a game where it's almost like I feel it's comparable. Home Edition to Pro is very comparable as Pro to Premium. Like, I don't know if you guys agree with that at all, but I...
Speaker: I'm just curious if somebody just bought a pro, if they were like, man, maybe I could have saved, could have saved two grand and gone home edition. You don't agree with that, Travis? We got a strong head shake. I mean, I'm not saying there's not people out there thinking that way, but we're talking about a commercial product compared to a scaled down home environment product.
Speaker: And I think the money's the money, yeah right? So Just think about how many people that have decided to buy a pro pinball machine or like an LE pinball machine. And that's a $5,000 difference.
Speaker: Yeah. Right there, at least. So, and they're all similar game plays. Like there's going to be some differences, but it's still pretty similar. And it's like that across the board. Like imagine buying a Harry Potter for $15,000.
Speaker: Sorry, CJ's going nuts upstairs. Imagine buying a Harry Potter for $15,000 and then what? You can buy the arcade edition for $10,000? So it's just different levels, but I get what you're saying. But I don't know. Tom, you actually got to play it though, didn't you? I didn't really play it.
Speaker: You didn't play it? Oh, just saw it in person? Did you just like go see it in person and took some pictures? You're like, what this shit? like tipped it over? I was shopping and I'm like... He had to get his 84 pack of AA batteries. I'm like, hey guys, look at this.
Speaker: Yeah, click. um I thought you were having like a Tom Graff meet and greet. No. Up there Wisconsin. No. He could have said some stupid GC on that thing. if he Just so nobody up This guy's been here for three hours. Well, it is funny though. So, Joel, have you seen it out like at Costco, like in person? I have not. I have not. So, Tom, you might be able to answer this Was the game at least set up properly? Because the one that was here in St. Louis – It basically, at the time, it had no balls in there. None of the managers like even knew what was going on. The game was just flat.
Speaker: i so I just like the fact that I could go and get a food sample and then like go play it. So he wants all of his pinball to come with free snacks. Don't all? Don't we all? we all' that no I mean, like the game... i mean Overall, i i like I said, I didn't really play it at all. I was just like, I i mean, i fiddled with it a little bit, but I didn't really like take it too seriously.
Speaker: yeah like Define fiddle. Like you press start or you actually played a ball? and like flipped for like half a minute and then I was like okay you're drawing too big of a crowd feels like a pinball machine no no he signed it actually you know I thought there would be more people and and I thought there would be more people like flocking to it yeah yeah pinball yeah I think that's the coolest shit ever. Look at Tom. green Tom doesn't play pinball. If it's not on stream. I mean, if he can't make money doing it, then why is he going to even play these games at home anymore? Like, I don't even know what these things are like. Oh, i pimball so are we at least in agreement? Like good idea, bad idea. an idea yeah i think it's a great idea. um
Speaker: What you think, Tom? Tom's shaking his head no, I think. No, I was he i don't i don't have my goal i don't have an issue with it at at all. okay yeah being Being in the pinball scope, like you know the first thing I notice is like, oh, the screen's like three inches big. you know like It's bigger than that. But you know when when you see the big Spike 3 and then that comparatively, it's like,
Speaker: Yep. Yep. So that begs a question I have for you too. What theme from any other manufacturer would go great in Costco? Obviously this is just a Stern thing, but any theme outside a Stern that has released in the past five years.
Speaker: ah I mean, the first I i thought of Spooky, I think Beetlejuice would, out of the Spooky games, I think Beetlejuice would do well. um Out of JJP, Harry Potter, 100%, I think would do well.
Speaker: m Avengers Doomsday. Probably once it comes out. Spider-Man? Spider-Man would be great. But those are... i think, yeah. Spider-Man's already had a home version, I think, right? I think you're right. Yeah, but I'm not... I'm talking like full-fledged. Tom just wants new themes. No, I want...
Speaker: I want the Tom Holland Spider-Man. I think that needs to be done. i See, I think the Spider-Man Into the Spider-Verse is the way to go. that That's where the money's That's another one too. yeah Whoever has that theme, my God.
Speaker: yeah that would That would be a juggernaut for Holmes. Because the art is so good on that. but I agree. um And the music. I think it makes, i mean, we've we've talked about Pokemon for for months and months and months and months, and there's no denying that it is the biggest license out there, period. So I think it's brilliant. Of course, of course it makes sense.
Speaker: You have the license, make another edition of the game that's going to be viewed by more people than people that ran, you know, stumble into an arcade or whatever like that. Like this, I think it's brilliant for Stern to do this. Is it is is this edition going to upset anybody, you know, the pin side crowd? I don't, I don't think so. i I just think it is interesting that they're using the same layout.
Speaker: I do find that very because that's the first time they've done that. So that is interesting. But um I think it's brilliant. I think it's I if JJP had the opportunity to make a slim down, you know, a simplified version and use their Harry Potter license to get in Costco, they probably do it. I don't.
Speaker: I mean, it's slimmed down, but it's also like... I mean, it's basically taking the Pro and taking... It's like it's like the reverse premium Pro. Yes. Well, here's an interesting question.
Speaker: Okay. I'm just curious. At what point was this machine taken into consideration? Because they've used the same layout with the same code. So do you think there's any way...
Speaker: that they've they've been like, well, we need we need the code to work on the home edition. So that's true like, you can only code to the lowest tier denominator, right? I mean, it's basically a Spike 3 game, isn't it? I mean, that's probably the same board set.
Speaker: but I'm just, I'm talking more like rules, depth, you know, like... I don't know. I i mean, there there are differences, though. There are differences, though, with, like, the the side a kickback is is not. It's just like a return. There are differences. I'm just curious. I'm very curious. I would love to play one. Let's speculate.
Speaker: Maybe this was a decision from the beginning. ain't Maybe. I don't know. I don't know either. What else do we have? Transformers. You've had Transformers LE for a while now, Tom. yeah What are your, any new thoughts? Are you having any mechanical issues with it?
Speaker: Not that I've noticed, no. and Okay. That's I've been surprised because I've streamed it twice now. i had I had no issues at all with the Pro. None at all.
Speaker: And the Premium, I had one issue where the ball was coming off a wire form, but I just turned down the VUK. That helped. When I streamed it, I had no issues with the Canon, don't think at all. Yeah, I know. ralph Ralph said he had problems with his Canon, right? Yeah.
Speaker: yeah and like And I said I didn't have any. Yeah, i when I streamed, no issues. When I filmed the tutorial, just throwing the ball around, that was the first time I had the cannon fail.
Speaker: And it's like, huh. So I don't know. i And I'm not, I don't want to put this out there, but at the same time, I'm just very curious about this this layout. its I think it's a very creative layout with very creative toys and Macs.
Speaker: But we've already discussed the back left corner with Optimus. was clearly changed and it was changed last minute. So I'm just curious, was there a lot of design given to that back corner and because of that other areas of the play field were not as fleshed out or not? at Or is there a chance that like these ball paths changed because of the back left corner design?
Speaker: and And because of that, like, because some people are talking about the way the the spin comes off that upper habit trail to feed the upper flipper. Sometimes that ball doesn't feed the upper flipper well. While on King Kong, it's basically the same thing, and it feel feeds really well every single time.
Speaker: Like, I'm just... I'm curious if you guys have that, heard that, he talks. You live it in the past, Joel. Joel is trying to say there is more than meets the eye. Oh. That's what... Yeah, that was it.
Speaker: I guess I never... I never look back and go, huh, I wonder what this could have been. don't know. I like... Just live in the present.
Speaker: are you So are you trying to ask if something changed? Is that what you're getting Well, ah we don't know. i I mean, I think we do know that something changed with Optimus. I think we do know that. Yeah, I think multiple parts of the layout probably changed yes late in the game.
Speaker: When you look at it from a geometry standpoint, kind of how some of the feeds are. Yeah. Right? But I mean, it's kind of pinball in general. I still enjoy playing it. Oh. For what is it is. Like it's... yeah It's interesting you say it though, because i ah I was playing a premium earlier and earlier today, as matter of fact, and that was one of the feeds that was kind of a little funky here and there was coming off that grommet to the upper right flipper. So it's like the the balance was probably 50% good, 50% spinning off still. So it's kind of figuring out okay, why is that happening?
Speaker: And i ended up adjusting the VUK. a little bit. So I personally think it has something to do with the power, like how fast that's coming off the VUT. Cause it's like, if I go super fast, it feels like it feeds just fine, but there's a chance it goes flying off that wire form.
Speaker: Whereas if I go too low, then it's barely going to get there and it just kind of dribbles there and it doesn't really do anything. So it's kind of like a happy medium of just figuring out how quick. And so that might have something to do with it.
Speaker: Because I'm trying to think of the King Kong layout off the top of my head, how it feeds there. Like what shot, what shot leads to that point? It's the, isn't it the the upper flipper little ramp shot that then sends it all the way across?
Speaker: That's how you can do the figure From the left side? Yeah. Upper left flipper. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're right. And it feeds it across and then it goes under and then it feeds like, and I. that probably has something to do with it. It's got to, because I mean, anything that you look at design, especially ball returns or anything like that, it has to do with momentum.
Speaker: Yeah. Right. Or speed. So. Yeah. I think that's most likely what it is off the top of my head. I'm we've streamed it a few times now and and honestly, it's it's ah I really enjoy the game. I really enjoy the game. I think he's done an incredibly, incredibly good job with the code. Like I love the code and the fact that the way you play the modes could be easier, energized, normal or rusted and how different that makes it. And then depending on what mode you played, know,
Speaker: ah you know, affects the one shall fall. Like it's, there's a lot of creativity there. And as I filmed the tutorial, I realized like this game is crazy deep, like not crazy deep, but there's a lot to explain.
Speaker: There's so much that you can do. You can kind of go in so many different directions and they all overlap and it's 0.89 code. Like I'm, I don't know. I'm really impressed with it. I'm very, very impressed with it.
Speaker: I'm actually, I'm actually going to stream it tomorrow. Let's go. Let's go. we'll figure out if that works sort or not. Yeah, it's I think it's great, but I'm just i'm surprised.
Speaker: um you know I've been part of the X-Men owner's thread for a long time, and that game gets filled up with with hardware issues all the time. like People talk about it all the time.
Speaker: Are you, are there's another dollar. is it cause I'm pointing to this game? Is that what it is? No, don't worry about it. Okay. I'm going to stop pointing, pointing to games, Tom. Um, I should have, uh, Transformers is right over here.
Speaker: It's right over. It's right over here. sitting and you notice there's no dollar going in. there it oh there ah goes um anyways uh the x-men thread it's like it's it's littered with hey i'm doing this i'm doing this uh side note stern has a replacement ramp and they've already sent out a bunch and they're on back order but i did get the replacement ramp and it shoots for x-men so the back nobody told me ramp Back to left backlift ramp is ah with the figure eight shot. They have a replacement version and it has a longer flap.
Speaker: um and it And it definitely helped. I had the Raiden mod in it before, which was really good. It's definitely helped. ah The other thing that really helped was I put precision flippers on mine and that that's pretty sick. It actually shoots very, very well now. It's like cheating.
Speaker: So I, well, I have precision, there's precision flippers on ah on Avengers too. And they're okay. Dollar.
Speaker: The precision flippers on Avengers made that game. Like you can't miss a shot. It just, the every shot is so powerful and it's such a good shooter. Tom, that was actually supposed to be $2. He pointed and he said precision flippers also.
Speaker: ah Oh, okay. All right. We have a bingo card. This is awesome. The bingo card is, well, I'm just very curious where the dollars are going. that it's who Who's winning on this? Going in the Joel jar. Going in the Joel jar. Got it. Anyway, the reason I brought up the hardware issues was I was surprised reading some of the Transformers stuff now to start seeing them talk about hardware issues. And then I'm also in the Sonic...
Speaker: Sonic Pinball Thread, because that genuinely, that's a game I miss. I really, really, really enjoyed it when it was here. That game is starting to get littered with hardware, like mechanical hardware issues. That's what I've heard. Specifically the loop-de-loop ramp, which is very surprising to me because did not have a single failure.
Speaker: When it was here, I didn't have a single failure with that loop-de-loop ramp, and yet some people are. It's it's really been a problem. Joel, pinball's tough. Maybe Tom can say it. Can you guys please say one of the first things I said in our group chat when Sonic was revealed?
Speaker: I think you said something that about that loop-de-loop ramp is going to be a problem. Okay. yes Yeah. Yeah. i Which it wasn't. That was what's crazy to me. The one I had, it was not a problem at all. You can watch multiple streams of it.
Speaker: Never had a failure. And now there's people where they're like, oh, easy. 60% of the time the ball falls off. The ball like through it goes right in. I think it's Amy is the the little figure. goes like...
Speaker: nails her just getting bashed the whole time it's yeah it's like a bash toy on top of a plastic yeah fantastic um well here's a good question though because i've seen that too and that was one of the things that we kind of zeroed in on early on what do you did you make any adjustments to your game at all none you just happened just to get the one lucky like one one of wall and one of one rip which is odd because this was one of the first ces off the line you know zach gets games and that's the game right so there are times where the game i stream uh the perfect example is dune i streamed dune number one and that layout was smooth but it wasn't perfect and we had some mechanical issues that we worked through no big deal now that i have my dune
Speaker: my doing like shoots like like it us yeah and it's like okay usually the games get better and better and better as they get built but but no the the sonic i streamed i had no issues with it um so i don't know it's it's unfortunate but i feel bad for the owners you don't know what Oh, is that another bingo card? I love that.
Speaker: One more dollar, Tom. already edited it. Oh, he got it before. Okay, so precision flippers point to my games or say, I don't know. That's where I'm at so far. Okay. We should have like a drinking game for the audience. They would be sloshed on a Saturday night. I'm running out money here. When we started, the whole thing was I said, that's fair. I said that a lot. And somebody suggested that that should be the drinking game. And I picked up on that. And so I've been working on it. It's all right. You're great, Joel. We're just giving you shit.
Speaker: Hey, that's what I'm here for. Well, okay. So Tom played Sonic. Yes. So right at JJP. Yeah. Right. And did play anywhere else? No, you played on location too at Lumberjack, right? I played it at Lumberjack Johnny's. There's one at Titletown Brewery. I was just there last night for a tournament. So have you experienced something similar or have you found one that works really well? When I was at Jersey Jack, that was the first thing I noticed was that like that that loop magnet thing was throwing the ball everywhere.
Speaker: Mm-hmm. But one at the factory, that was the one at the factory. Yeah. Like it, it seemed to throw it a lot to the right. Amy. Is that? and No. ah Well, yeah, I guess so. I mean, it okay. I got you but I'm interrupting too much. Go ahead, Tom. No, no, it's fine.
Speaker: ah But like the one I played last night, It was fine. So, and that was one later off the line. so um, don't know. It's probably game dependent.
Speaker: they Maybe it's a setup. The moral the story is just get lucky with whatever game you got. Just get lucky. Get lucky. ah No, I mean, you read any of these things, especially the X-Men thread, and people are just like, okay, well, the moral story is don't buy a game until it's finished code and like hundreds down the, you know, like wait until the game's done with code, done with the layout, done with this, done with that. That could be true for any game.
Speaker: ah That, yes. Yes, it definitely can, except for the games that you're going to sell. Like, if a game sells out, so you can't obviously play that with a spooky game or a barrels of fun game. The game's going to be sold out before the code's done and and they've got it all dialed in. Like, that's just... Or you just hope you're at the end of the list, you know? Like...
Speaker: I don't know. It's a tough spot. it's a It's a tough spot. and i had I had a side conversation with, ah well, Josh Roop, of all people, with Loser Kid. And we were talking, and and one of the people always mention, they're like, like Jaws. Jaws is the perfect example of, that is a game that's complete.
Speaker: The hardware issues that they had at the beginning, all of those have been fixed. Anybody that buys a Jaws today, you should have complete and full confidence in that game. And I think that's that's true. um and that's And part of me is like, I don't know why don't own a Jaws. That game's incredible.
Speaker: that's I mean, that's the truth in my opinion. But I don't know. It's an interesting side thing. I'm not trying to discourage people from buying new pinball. But that is something to see it now. That was a two Stern games I've talked about.
Speaker: And now even a JJP game that I'm talking about right out the gate. Do all your games work 100% of the time? ah That's why I miss all my shots, Tom, because they don't work. hard No, no. No, they do. They do not work 100% of the time. It is a mechanical game. It's a mechanical game with some crazy stuff.
Speaker: But if your loop-de-loop on Sonic doesn't work 60% of the time, that probably upsets you. That's fair. Yeah.
Speaker: I don't know. um I say all that. i I said I don't know again, by the way There's your dog. ah ah Sonic, I genuinely miss Sonic. I do. i That's a game that, ah and maybe it's because my son enjoyed playing it a lot.
Speaker: I like the simplicity of it. I like to just turn my brain off, step up, play the game. I like how the upper play field shot. I don't know. now you Now that you have more games, Tom, in it, ah do you like that game anymore? Any less?
Speaker: No. Just still. Okay. Travis, you had a chance to play it, right? I did. i played it up at ah whatever that bar place in Minnesota, Minneapolis. I can't think of the name of it.
Speaker: li What? I was up there for SummerSlam a couple weeks ago. So I went to like one of their local places. Yeah. Tilt on tilt. Okay.
Speaker: On something. I don't remember the name of it. Minnesota people write in, please. I can't remember the name. Anyways. Yeah, I played it. There you go. And? I made it a couple of balls in and then I let my kids keep playing it. Yeah. I was good after that. I don't know. like I like Sonic in general. It was just...
Speaker: and I went in with no expectations, really. You know, so it's like I try to have an open mind. Even if I see my first impression of something, it's like, okay, you know, clear the slate, give it its due. Because some games you're goingnna like, some you aren't. When I played it in general, I don't know. It just, the game wasn't really clicking with me much.
Speaker: Maybe it's just my pure rage of just seeing the ball, like hit off the sculpt and go to that lane. i'm like, okay, yeah, that makes sense. But ah I don't know. I don't really like games either that have play fields to where it just feels like a grind, where you're up at the play upper play field a lot, just over and over and over again. It felt like in this game, that's what I was tasked with doing. Now, to be fair, I don't know the rules as well as usual. So that's one of the few times I'll say that. But, you know, for this, I didn't. So it's like maybe maybe i was missing something. I don't know. I need to watch more.
Speaker: videos in it. I mean, if it's around here, I'll play it again. it just, there was other options and I was just like, okay, I can feel myself getting frustrated by what's going on. I'm like, I'm not going to drop any more coin drop in this. I'll just, I'll wait. Cause there was like a mystery cat or not a mystery castle. of Winchester was there. Um, so i was like, okay, let's go over and play that instead.
Speaker: I had fun. I had fun. Carl did decent on that game. Yeah, Winchester is another game that I i absolutely miss like streaming. I would love to have that game back to streaming again. Tom made a really good choice getting one. Before I go before i let you guys go on it, do want to say one positive thing about it. when the When the ball did get caught on the right ramp and it stalled there and then it shot it fast and that loop did work because of that, that was a cool moment.
Speaker: Yes. Like I did enjoy it. I thought that was well done and everything. So but's I just, i want to see more of that. want more of that. It was just after playing Harry Potter to where that experience is just fantastic.
Speaker: And Elton John, the experience playing that lot of fun as well. So it's like, I kind of had those background expectations into what could happen. So I guess I might've been comparing it to that.
Speaker: Yeah. i know and makes that It's a fair comparison. There was still the whole time we were streaming Sonic. People are like, this Harry Potter, this Harry Potter the whole time. And, ah those Those games are so different. Different, yeah. And and ah you ask my brother Jared, he's going to say Sonic 10 out of 10 times. And that's perfectly fair. like that If that suits his style of gameplay and he's having more fun, then go for it, right?
Speaker: Yeah, no. i yeah i There's a simplicity to it. like Unfortunately, when we were streaming Avengers the other night, I got a little bit into explaining the rules, and Jared just checked out.
Speaker: Like he just, oh, there's another dollar. Probably when I said, got to see, I'm going to be thinking about this whole time. But anyways, he, uh, Jared checked out, Jared just straight up checked out because once, once rules get too deep or too, like not super obvious how to, you know, hold your hand. He just, he's just like, all right, I'm, I've checked out. I just want how to know how get to multiball and I just want to flip this thing. And it wasn't towards the end that he's like, all right, I got to give it to Elwin. Like this shoots so well, like it, it's a really fun shooter.
Speaker: But Avengers is definitely a game that's not it's not blatantly obvious right at the beginning what you're doing, how to do it, how to progress. Like, that takes a little bit of time. But once you once you understand it, though, man, what ah what a great game. I know it was your dream theme, Travis. Like, I know you owned Avengers LE for a long time. Yeah, like yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. I enjoy it. mean, to me, I like the rule set personally just because it gives you many different things to do. Like, you could play an entire game just focusing on drop targets. You could play an entire game just focusing on the battles. You could play an entire game just focusing on collecting Avengers. Or you could play an entire game of trying to collect the gems and stuff.
Speaker: put them in different areas and make it as optimal as possible. So, I mean, there's different ways to, to play. I think it's mainly, I mean, we talk about this all the time when it comes to rules. A lot of it is, is not knowing the whole thing is perfectly okay. You don't have to be an encyclopedia, but just at least know the table of contents for like section one, that's it. And then you just do that. You're, you're fine.
Speaker: The rest, you can figure it out along the way. um What surprises me is ah i actually had borrowed a John Wick. And so i've I now had an opportunity to stream John Wick at complete code, finished code.
Speaker: What a great game. like what ah what a great game. When we first streamed it, it was brand new out of the gate. Jared and I had no idea what we're doing. It wasn't super clear, but like you're saying, even though John Wick actually has a lot of depth in ways that you can progress it and do this and this and this, they found a way to to make that code a lot more understandable just at the get-go and um tom i know you still have a john wick like yeah that game the way that's progressed awesome i yeah it's a fun game i like the way it shoots and uh the code uh definitely is so much better hopefully uh they'll catch up with x-men to it but uh we'll see what happens
Speaker: That's the hope. That's the hope that I have. Is it going to get finished? um i I sure hope. Another game that I had a chance to revisit was Led Zeppelin. I know, Tom, you still have your Led Zeppelin. yeah that's That was another game that stood out to me as in Jared can step up to it and just play it. You don't have to think about Led Zeppelin at all.
Speaker: You can just step up. rock out because as the songs go, the the the the arrows are changing based off what's going on. Like it just, you don't have to overthink ah Led Zeppelin at all.
Speaker: Just step up and play. But if you want to really think about it, there's a lot you can do with Led Zeppelin. Is there, how often is Led Zeppelin a good tournament game?
Speaker: How often are you guys? No, Travis just gave a thumbs up because he's off camera, but yeah, ah yeah, no, it's a fantastic tournament game because there's multiple ways to play it. You can pick a different song. The songs have different shot layouts to them. is I personally, like my strategy is to pick cashmere. Okay. ah One, it's a long song.
Speaker: So like you're always building up the jackpot value for for the actual song. It's not really a jackpot, I guess, but I consider it that.
Speaker: So every time you hit a shot, the the value of the shots keep going up and up and up. Whereas, you know, other games are just like, okay, I'm hitting this shot and this shot to try to finish the mode.
Speaker: You know, Led Zeppelin's a little different in that aspect. And then you have the have the multi balls too. So yeah you can stack those with it. Do you prioritize the whole, what's it, Icarus multiplier? Like, do you prioritize actually hitting combos, ending them on the right shots, building up your Icarus combo? Is that something you do? It's in the back of my mind.
Speaker: Okay. But I'm more concentrating on... Progression. Progression. Yeah, and... building my score up. And then once that, once I do get those lit, then, you know, it's time to cash out and hopefully in a multi-ball while you're, you know, in a more progressed in the song, you can really blow up the game.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. It's, it was just, ah there was something we kind of had week to week to week. It's like we had, a we had Transformers and the challenges that it presented there followed by John Wick. That was like such a pleasant surprise with how much better it's gotten.
Speaker: And then followed by Led Zeppelin where it's like, you know what, you can just rock out and have a great time. You don't have to overthink it at all. And then we've had Avengers where it's like, wow, there's a lot here you can think about if you want, or if you just want to focus on the layout. that's just In the last month or two of streaming, i've really it's been so cool to see the variety of pinball. That's what I've...
Speaker: real Oh, and then Dune. I streamed the Dune that I have, which people have asked, do I regret buying a Dune? Absolutely not. Absolutely not. He got the dollar. i I didn't point to it, but I think if I talk, is it because I'm talking about games? It's probably something along that. ah Dune is, I am so happy with my Dune purchase. I really am so, have you, Travis, had have you had an opportunity to like spend some time playing a Dune?
Speaker: Like a significant amount of time? No. I mean, i mean i've I've played it for a while, but I haven't got to like dig in for multiple, multiple games in a row to see all the nuances and everything.
Speaker: yeah and Someday I will. I'm waiting on our Winchester should be in at any time now. So hopefully we play that. I'll get to dig into that. That's why I really want to play.
Speaker: Winchester is so good. But Tom, how would you sell somebody on if somebody is like, I, the doom, the theme, it's it's fine. It doesn't, I don't love it. It's fine. But if they're like, Hey, i have I have an opportunity to buy one here. or Should I buy it? How would you sell somebody on buying Dune? You know, it's funny you say that, uh, somebody actually asked me, um via like email, like, Hey, what would you buy between these two games?
Speaker: And I'm not going to say what the other one was, but the other one, because I don't remember. think it it was an easy answer. I think it was Harry Potter. but But they were like, you know, I find Harry Potter kind of easy. I can get through a lot of the stuff.
Speaker: And they're like, I'm thinking about Dune now. it's And i it's it's really deep game. And, you know, it's a little more... And I said, i think Dune's a little more...
Speaker: it's a little harder to hit the shots than it is on Harry Potter. Um, ah but it's also a deep game. So I, they were basically asking me like, Hey, do you think this would be good for home? And like, will help me get better?
Speaker: And I said, yeah, I think i think that's a good choice. you know if if you feel like Harry Potter's going to get old to you after a while, um i think Dune is a good choice as far as depth and maybe... Difficulty. Yeah, I'd say it's moderately difficult compared to other games.
Speaker: Yeah, I think maybe it's because, as I mentioned earlier, when I streamed it, we had the first one and it wasn't super calibrate. Like it was good. It was good, but it wasn't like this. So now this game, I feel like this game's way easier than the one we streamed prior. And I'd still, I do think in the, in the spectrum of difficulty,
Speaker: Dune is ah is a harder shooter than like a Pokemon. i mean, it's not your typical fan layout, right? No. It's not a fan layout at all. it's Yeah. And with the the flippers are flatter, so it's a little more challenging to cradle up.
Speaker: I mean, that's that's definitely something I noticed on... ah Like, it's pretty easy to cradle up on Transformers. It's super easy to cradle up on Led Zeppelin. Like, some of these games...
Speaker: you can just to cradled up. ah Maybe that's a good transition. ah i Jared and I had an opportunity to play Dungeon Crawler Carl at Gen Con. And I honestly, with a P3, I think P3s, even though the flippers feel they feel very different. I mean, it does feel like a pinball flipper. They do feel different.
Speaker: I feel like P3s make the game... Like, you can control a game pretty well. i don't ah You guys have both played it through P3. Do you know what I'm saying with the flippers? Like, I feel like the way the flippers are designed, you can cradle relatively easily.
Speaker: With the P3 pass, like, that's a pretty easy maneuver to do. Am I crazy with that thought? I mean, that well, with the modules, they're they're not overly difficult layouts to shoot.
Speaker: I mean, yeah generally, ah if that's what you're meaning, like, the... I'm talking more with just the flippers themselves. I feel like the way the flippers are angled and whatnot. Maybe. i don't know.
Speaker: I'm not sure. I don't know. Yeah. It's just different. It is different. You know, because it's not it's not a traditional pinball mechanism. So it just feels feels a little odd to me when I first start playing it and you kind of get used to it.
Speaker: Yeah. throw It throws my eyes off more than anything. Like everything that's going on in the play field, like of freezes up my brain a little bit because I'm searching for the pinball instead. So I don't know. It does something with me that I'm just like... ah You say...
Speaker: You've told me before, like when I remember when I was streaming Deadpool, you said, hey, to hit this shot consistently, aim for the T-Rex's chin or something. yeah And you were talking about the art. Look at the art, yeah. In the middle of the play field. So you're not lining it up with the ramp, the ramp flap way in the back. you you You look at the art like six inches above your fingers. You don't want to. The reason why I don't aim like directly at T-Rex any one area except for using ours because if you look geometry wise, some of the ramps like the entrances are at different angles.
Speaker: They might be at the same exact spot as other designs, but the angle is slightly different. So therefore it's already at a different angle according to the flipper itself. Like if you drew a line actually from it. So if you look at like transformers or Foo Fighters,
Speaker: that geometry of those right ramps are going to look a lot different than the geometry of others just at the entrance. So a lot of people don't realize that that's what's happening, but that's kind of what happens with that. But yeah, that's, that's why I do that. So it's like whenever I've played a, uh,
Speaker: a multi-morphic pin, like, don't get me wrong. Like it's, it's cool to see outside of it. Like if you're not playing, you're watching it. Like, of course it's got all the bells and whistles with the, the animation, the movement and all that. But sometimes when I'm trying to track a ball too, it's because I'm so ingrained to look for like lit inserts, not something that's really has a bunch of movement. It just plays tricks with my brain. Yeah. You want a static image to align to,
Speaker: more than a- Yeah, it's just like it's like a pattern interrupt is all that's happening. Yeah, it's a first world problem. um That's what I got. Like right now, like I have an Elgato no signal on my ah brand new teleprompter thing. So now I'm having to look this way now. You know what's funny? Like I almost have the same thing.
Speaker: Yeah, do you? Yeah, I don't have it on. That's why I keep looking down. I'm so glad I spent money on that so it could like go haywire and not work. Well, you know, we've already refilmed this the second go, so it just it's just a matter of time for something crashes. or That's why I unplugged my mic the first time I was trying to fix. Joel, and Joel, yeah tell us about Dungeon Crawler Carl, because were talking about flippers, we're talking about people, like everybody knows that. Like, let's talk about the game itself. We've never played it. near We have not played it, and this is a theme that is dear to my heart.
Speaker: Like if I could design or be on rules for any project ever in the history of pinball, this would have been the one I would have picked and I would have retired. I would have quit because you can't get any better than having this theme.
Speaker: But hang Joel, maybe WWE. Okay. Maybe WWE. Okay. I would come back out of retirement for WWE. ah I honestly, i had I had a really fun time playing it. um Yeah. We only had a chance to play. It was, I think two games on it. So it was, it was short and, and they had the sound turned down really low because it was in a game with a whole bunch of people playing board games or in a room with a whole bunch of people playing board games. So they're trying to be considerate of that. Um,
Speaker: Or maybe they weren't considerate of you guys trying to play pinball. Right? What I will say. Board game nerds, I swear. say Jerry was there. we play board games all the time. Jerry was there. Ian was there explaining the game. ah And so being you know understanding what to do. Like I said, hey, do ah how do I get to Mongo multiball? and they're like, well, the first thing you have to do is you have to defeat the, and I forget his name again. It's a little hamster, a little gerbil dude. You got to defeat him.
Speaker: Travis, do you know? Yeah, his name's him. No, it's not him. The little, you you defeat him, you defeat the little gerbil dude, and then that's just based on the story, and then you can lock a ball in the Mongo area and work your way through that. So um Jerry did tell me I was the only person that weekend that got to multiball, which was a surprise, but I get it. You've hit've you've hidden the multiball behind a boss battle, so it's like you gotta to do multiple steps to get to the ability to do the multiball.
Speaker: But I could hit everything I wanted. Like, that's what they're like, OK, you need to hit this. So I think from a layout standpoint, shots and layout, it was good. Everything shot smooth. ah The upper flipper shots were easy to hit. ah The turntable mech, you know, you wonder. That's the question I have, the turntable mech. Fine. Like, when the turntable was turned to the left so that if you hit the left, it it scoops it around and then feeds to the back right.
Speaker: It did that. And then when it turns all the way around, so now you have to hit it from the left flipper to feed it back into the left orbit. It did that. So it's it was just one of those like, dang, this geometry works.
Speaker: um Now, what i will what I will say is they they are creative with that mech where when I think you battle the gerbil, the mech is over to the right. But yet when you battle another guy, the mech is over to the left.
Speaker: When you're doing the ball of swine, the mech is spinning. So they've done some really creative stuff. Where I'm curious, so is this is book one. They're saying they're putting seven books in the game. So is it still... Is it going to be that level of creativity for six more floors, for six more books? I don't know. I don't know, like, how they're going to get creative...
Speaker: And because there's a lot more, a lot more they got to put in that game. But I know that people are passionate about it. I've read all the Dungeon Crawler Crawl books. I know both of you guys have as well. It's an awesome theme.
Speaker: They've got the fact that they have Jeff Hayes for audio. The audio is going to be amazing. I think the art is fantastic. I think they have all the tools they need to make an awesome game.
Speaker: Now we're just kind of in a wait and see situation because they currently only have the first book really in the game. Um, have you remembered the name yet? Of the car? Carl's yelling right now. Yeah.
Speaker: german No, what's sad is I, when we filmed our review of it I couldn't remember it. Ralph. I said, what did I say during the review? That's what's sad to me is what popped in my head was Ralph. And I swear that's what I said, which was wrong.
Speaker: So I said somebody else, have said like Garrett or so. i don't know. I said some other day entirely. i don't know, but yes. Gary the gerbil. Yep. uh i think it's gonna be i think it has the potential to be really good if you're a p3 owner and you like the books absolutely it's worth buying um i have not played ender's game uh let me ask you that ender's game as a theme yay nay i have no affiliation with ender's game so okay i had I had no idea what it was until it was announced. I had just barely heard about it once and didn't realize it was a book. But, yeah I mean, it sounds cool. thought there was a movie, too. There was a movie. I think there was. It's not going to be like 10 or 15 years ago.
Speaker: what What is comical to me is I, before I started, i'm I'm in a book club with my family, but before like three years ago, I i didn't read books like at all. And Ender's Game is one book series I've actually read. Like I've read multiple books of that book series.
Speaker: So I enjoy it. Like that's a theme that I like. But when you put it right next to Dungeon Crawler Carl, it's like... No, I'm picking Dungeon Crawler Carl 10 out of 10 times. Like, I just... So, um' I think it's an interesting move. I don't blame Multimorphic for doing it because they found a way to get... um i mean, they have two games out of one mechanical playfield, but...
Speaker: I also think they kind of shot Ender's game in the foot a little bit because you're putting it up to a crazy amazing theme. Well, not just that, but DCC is on its way up.
Speaker: Yeah. Right. Like it's just now becoming real aware and pop pop culture. I mean, now we've got the TV show coming out. You have new books coming out, like more people are discovering it yeah every single day. So it's kind of one of those unique things that I don't think this theme is anywhere near its peak.
Speaker: but yet a pinball machine has been created before the peak has came. And that's kind of rare. Like really when you look at whenever games come out, it's after the peak of it. Like it's very rare that they catch a theme before it actually peaks. This would be like Breaking Bad coming out in season three or something like that. Like I think the last thing I can think of to where a machine came out like right at the peak was maybe what, like Game of Thrones?
Speaker: Maybe one years ago, right? We're the only two that kind of came out. Walking dead. Yeah. Yeah. It's just kind of rare that something like this actually happens. Yeah. I think it's, uh,
Speaker: I think long-term, I think it's going to sell really, really well. And it had a good line. Rush. I think it had a rush. It's only going up. um i got I got to ask you one thing, though.
Speaker: Me? I got to ask you. Or Joel. Joel. Sorry, Tom. I should ask you something, turn my mic off. Don't unplug it. maybe Well, Tom, you can answer this, too, because I have have concerns.
Speaker: with the with the rules on Dungeon Crawler Carl. yes And my concerns are is that all the bosses seem to be stacked. Yeah. i ah I'll admit, I'm not a fan of that. I'm not a fan, but just because of the lore of the book and how it all goes and everything,
Speaker: So you think it should be more linear? Or you just think like, do you think that you should only battle one boss at a time? I think just one boss at a time, personally.
Speaker: That's fair. Like, i don't I don't mind different foes at the same time. Like, that's fine. But when you're talking about... like dungeon bosses, neighborhood bosses, area, but like city, but whatever. Yeah. Like it's just, it's so far from like what I'm used to with the book.
Speaker: Right. So I'm trying to like, think like, okay, what puts me into this? What gives me that little nugget? But at the same time, I think I can kind of understand it that if you're going to have multiple books,
Speaker: yeah all coming in So like, I, I'm assuming that this will be the normal mechanic then book to book. Like, I don't see why they would have boss stacking for one book. Oh, for book one, not book two. Yeah, not do it for book two, book three, book four.
Speaker: But yes, what, what is interesting though, Somewhat spoiler if you haven't read it, it is is book one is two floors, but both floors are they're in a dungeon. like if You're in a dungeon-like environment.
Speaker: So is it that crazy that you're battling the juicer at the same time that you're battling Ralph the gerbil? No. Yeah. In the story. Because it's completely different parts of the story. But compare that to like, compare that to like the second book where you think of the boss battles in the second book.
Speaker: Okay. Those are in completely different environments in completely different situations. Like I don't, stacking that would very strange. Yeah.
Speaker: I don't know. It just, I, again, i I'm so far behind on listening to like anything that's came out or watching video or anything. So I'm just, I just know that part. I remember hearing that the boss is stacked. i do So it kind of like, it almost sounds like, um, shit. What's that?
Speaker: Uh, I'm drawing a blank. Valley Williams game. George Gomez. Yeah. George. Monster bash. It sounds like monster bash to me. Like in terms of you're going to start stacking bosses and people. So I don't.
Speaker: But like the, when you're playing creature is so different than when you're playing Dracula, like they're different. You're shooting different parts. Like I don't mind those stacking at all.
Speaker: Right, but that's just one thing. not like There's not like eight books of like all the universal monsters. So that's why I'm just kind of curious. of That's just what off the top of my head, what can think of that's similar to agree with you. i don't know I do agree with you because the time that I did start multiball, I actually started Ball of Swine and Juicer and the multiball all at the same time.
Speaker: So now of a sudden I have the main mech spinning, doing its own thing. And then the juicer, the way that it works is you're trying to hit ramps, but the wall, the P3 walls are coming up.
Speaker: And then for Mongo multi-ball, like I need to back hit back there in the Mongo cage. So I'm like, I got the juicer wall blocking me from getting to Mongo. And the whole time the thing in the middle is spinning. So I can't, it's like, all right. And I i said that in in our review. I didn't love that. It's chaos. The books are pretty chaotic.
Speaker: It's chaos. But for me to really enjoy... what they're trying to say with those modes or make those modes feel unique i would want them to be separate i i can only compare it to uh hobbit you know hobbit by default you can do smog multiball and beast multiball at the same time yeah i was very quick to turn that off like don't overlap those because i want i want those to feel separate and not interfere like i don't want to go to defeat smog and go to take my shot and one of the beasts pop up and block me it's like no i'm i'm battling the dragon right now i don't Get out of here. I don't know. We'll see what they say. Jerry did respond when I saw him the next day. he goes, you know, i appreciate the review. I disagree with you on the monster stacking, but you know, we'll talk it, we'll take it into consideration.
Speaker: You know, we're, we'll talk. You're saying they're okay with the monster stacking. they they there's reason well they gotta be if stack they it's purposeful so um maybe we'll talk to uh maybe we we'll get the maybe we can get somebody on or or something to talk about it and maybe they can defend it maybe they can defend why we're wrong don't take our comments personally oh yeah definitely we're three idiots take take it all personally bags of shit goes to joel's house not our house But no, like i'm just I'm just curious about that because that's what I had heard. i haven't got to watch a bunch of video on it. So I didn't... I know that it's like it's two different people doing rules. so And we know both of Like Wesley's on...
Speaker: DCC. d is lee johnson and yeah Right. And call McAlpine is on Ender's game. So, correct which I assume they have like two completely different ideas for what they're doing. There's probably like zero overlap there. So, okay.
Speaker: I don't know. mean, I'm curious to play it either way. I mean, and it might, it might be fun stacking bosses. i don't know. I think you'll have fun. I think you think Travis will own a P3 by the end of the year.
Speaker: You know, Monica still wants Princess Bride. He said I'm not saying no because it's a multi-morphic P3. He just doesn't want to let his kids get this. Yeah. My baby girl burned me on Toy Story. No, I'm saying no because I have one kid turning 16 this year. Yeah, we got to give him a car.
Speaker: And then Monica wanted to go to Disney World. Again? Yeah. and nice to For the daughters. cat For the, no, and no, I wish for the daughters. So this is a week long vacation, like a week at Disney world. That's expensive.
Speaker: That's like, catholic talent money that's like a semester for a kid in college. I may legitimately open up an only fans right with you, Tom. yeah And not only that, we're doing some like some, cause the girls, they want to do everything and they're doing like a bippity boppity boop.
Speaker: like princess thing, right? And then they're wanting to do the Halloween thing. Like Mickey's not so scary Halloween party. you know how much tickets are for that, Joel? just Just like one of my kids aren't even going. I'm actually curious. Yeah, there's so- her person, $120. I wish. it's so for me my wife one of my sons and two of my daughters, five of us, it's like, I think after taxes is like $910. Wow. Just for five tickets for eight hours.
Speaker: It's a forever memory, Travis. Yeah. Forever memory burning a hole in my bank account. My God. i think I saw a train and bare naked ladies for cheaper than that. is Exactly. So long story short, that's why. That's why know pinball for you. Okay.
Speaker: Yeah. there's ah There's just no way. There's not enough money, Joel. Not enough money. There's not. There's pinball's either. It's all money or space. Need more money. Yeah. Um, I will say if you if you have a P3 and you like Dungeon Crawler, Carl, I think you will enjoy this game. I'm excited about it. I'm excited to play it more.
Speaker: I'm excited to see what they do with it. I would just say my initial impression, give us that option to turn off the ability to stack. We'll see if they add it or not. Even if you want to make the default a stack, just give us that option of the code to turn that off.
Speaker: What was your favorite part of it? Oh, the turntable for sure. I'm sucker for dynamic. And that's like the big mech in the middle. Yeah. Like what's cool about that?
Speaker: Because again, I haven't watched much video. So is this like, does it change what's on top? It does. it change what's on bottom or both? It's very creative because what's on top are these clear diverters. So there's one VUK that'll shoot the ball to the upper area. And then depending on where that plexiglass is, it's going to divert the ball to either the left flipper or the right flipper. Oh, okay. That's cool. So it's a mechanically super impressive game.
Speaker: Super impressive. And when you can give me a mode where I'm shooting it and it's you know the the the shot is going from the left to the upper right and then it spins and all of a sudden i got to hit the middle so it goes to the upper left.
Speaker: I love dynamic. any Any sort of dynamic play field, I'm a sucker for. I mean, Winchester obviously crushes it with its turntable in the back. um That dynamic play field is... Yeah, I love it. I love that. Love that aspect of it. um All right. So Multimorphic's in a good spot, but it's going to be a while before they get games out and we really have a chance to play it. um Barrels of Fun. We talked about Dune for just a second.
Speaker: I love mine. I know Tom loves his. But Bon Jovi. Bon Jovi, huh? that's ah That is here. i' have not had a chance to play it. ah Hopefully soon. um Tom, you like music. It is clear that you like music. Are you a fan of the Bon Jovi?
Speaker: I mean, I don't mind Bon Jovi, but it's not something I have in my arsenal all the time. Well, we all know yourre your iPod is just Rush. it's just That's not true. what What is there besides Rush? ah Bare Naked Ladies, All Time Low, Paramore, Foo Fighters. Okay.
Speaker: There's a range here. mean, there's a lot of shit. there's a But no Bon Jovi.
Speaker: Uh, no, there's a little Bon Jovi. Not a lot Bon Jovi, just a little Bon Jovi. Okay, did you buy one, Tom? You're usually, you're the guy, you like to buy the pinball. Did you buy a Bon Jovi? I did not.
Speaker: Okay, and why why not? Because I like money, Joel. ah And these fucking things are expensive. You did you had a You had a few months there where it was like Beetlejuice, Dune, Winchester, Transformers. You just couldn't say no. You just couldn't. But now you're there. finally got the point. And now my bank account's gone. My wife left me. Yeah.
Speaker: yeah now my wife way to show control just kidding for two weeks he will have control yeah yeah for two weeks i don't know you know and then like you hear rumors that you know keith might be doing a new game soon so like right right right ro yeah he's he peaked we already talked about that yeah peaked he he's he's slide yeah um dookie uh what Okay, Bon Jovi. Travis, you are you i think you enjoy looking at licenses and popularity of licenses yeah in the world of your research.
Speaker: Bon Jovi, good theme, bad theme? It's fine. I mean, it's it's fine. I think that's more of a retail theme than it is a pinball enthusiast theme. I think it's a good 700 limited game. Yeah, I mean, right about where they're at. I think it should sell through eventually.
Speaker: Obviously, it's not going to be week one because already been a couple weeks ago. would like to play one and see how it is. Yeah. you know and If I play one and i I'm like really impressed with it, then I'd probably buy one. But yeah until I do that, no. So you're halfway there.
Speaker: I got it. 30%.
Speaker: Okay. All right. um So you would say you're living on a prayer? that Yeah. yeah chance of you So you're saying there's a chance. Yeah. clear i mean it so There's a chance for any game.
Speaker: It's curious because it's funny. Like... So I think dad rock themes have a weird spot in pinball currently to where I truly do think at scale, which is just a fancy way for saying like the expansion of this whole theme. I think the pinball industry as a whole has fatigue when it comes to dad rock.
Speaker: Okay. But I do think on the retail side, just like we talk about all the time, there's always somebody, yeah, except for Tom, Tom loves his dad rock. But there's always somebody discovering pinball or rediscovering pinball that may be of the age that enjoys the theme. And so even if a theme came out 10 years ago, or whatever, it's the first time they've ever even seen it. So they may want to get it. So, you know, anything that's like a Bon Jovi or somewhere around along those lines, it'll still do decent.
Speaker: Yeah. Like long-term. But, you know, i I don't think I'm glad that this is limited units. I think, what'd you say? Like 700, 750, some, somewhere right around there. It's 700.
Speaker: Okay. So something like that, that's a lot more doable. Plus barrels, exclusive members. If it's sold out, if this would, if this would have been like a Stern, Stern's model in terms of like, let's put out a thousand LEDs or 750 LEDs and a premium and a,
Speaker: a pro i would would have been like uh no go i don't know yeah that would that would flame out pretty fast but um you know it's it is a pinball machine yeah and it looks fun to shoot so i think it looks really fun to shoot um there were people that played it at uh southern fried gaming i think and a lot of the reviews with people that played it were one it's the best sounding game they've ever played They said, uh, uh, Jeff dirty pool kind of revamped the whole audio system. So they have a new amp, new speakers. They changed the way the sub box works and everything. They're like, honestly, it sounds incredible.
Speaker: Um, and then they, they were really, uh, they're like, it shoots so well. So I think it's, you know, if Bon Jovi, if you were a Bon Jovi person, you're probably going to really enjoy this game if you already love it. But uh,
Speaker: This is going to be one of those themes. And i once again, I almost feel like it's compared to Dune where people that love Dune bought it right at the get-go. and then And then there were the people that had the opportunity to play Dune.
Speaker: The Dune enthusiasts, I think, jumped on it. Okay. But everybody else that was just like, well, I like Dune, but I'm going to play it. that Then they go to Expo or TPF and they play it. And then all of a sudden, Dune gets this...
Speaker: Like Dune kind of had a huge push after Winchester came out. Cause people were waiting to play Winchester. Like, well, I'll give Dune a go. And then they're like, dang, Dune's actually awesome. So I feel like, uh, there's a chance Bon Jovi might be, yeah Elton John was similar. It's like, Elton John diehards bought it. And then people started playing and they're like, Holy crap, this game's amazing. And then they bought Elton John. So, uh, we'll have to see. I think, I think there's a chance Bon Jovi might go down that same path.
Speaker: Um, You know, they sold 700 of them. They met their goal. It's interesting when manufacturers, it's like, what is success? Well, if success is selling the number you say you're going to build, how could, how could barrels of fun be any more successful than what they are with?
Speaker: They sold them all. Um, So great. like i don' yeah Travis, Joel's talking me into it. I think I'm at like 35% now. That's good.
Speaker: That's good. Okay. We could probably get you up to 50 by the end of this podcast. That's true. And then he'd be ever. now Well, I think the great thing about the sound thing, I just, I wish pinball would really go all in on that, on sound packages, on really, because it's just like,
Speaker: you know, we've talked about this, like probably exhaust, ah exhaustive for the past couple of years. I mean, you guys know how I feel about the LCD screen. I get it. It's a necessary evil, but at the same time, it's kind of, it's kind of one of those things that if I have a ball and a flipper, especially if it's like a music pin or anything that has to do with just the sounds of everything, like I want that.
Speaker: just like on par with the expectations and then exceeding like what I'm feeling. Like I want to be able to hit a spinner and I can hear these deep sounds of that along with whatever call outs you happen to have with the machine or with the theme, whatever. So to me, i I just wish a lot more people would really go all in on focusing on that. And maybe they are,
Speaker: Maybe I like, I have no idea how yeah any of the audio works. I just know some sounds better than others. Like i know, like for instance, when I hear, um like Mark Silk saying something on like Ninja Turtles, right? With the with the splinter, like that sounded cool to me.
Speaker: Like the way that those call outs were, like it kind of made thematic sense. Whereas like others, it just kind of feels like it's almost grating or it just doesn't make sense with how some of the calls are how some of the sound is. So it's like, it's hard to describe. I don't know. Like I wish I could be able to say exactly what it is, but I don't know. there's no There's no doubt that some sound packages are leagues above others, but I also think the physical hardware within a game... That's the thing. Barrels of Fun has always had good physical hardware. yeah So the fact that they took... like I think Dune is probably my best sounding game in my lineup, but yet if you're telling me Jeff made the hardware within these games better...
Speaker: That's crazy. I already feel like it's at the top of what a pinball machine can sound. so I like the idea of cinematic pinball. like I get it to where they're trying to go and it makes sense for the direction that they're going and it makes sense for the amount of units that comes out on a per theme basis.
Speaker: yeah So you know why not just fully lean into that and keep keep going that direction? I think that's that's a winning strategy in my opinion. True. Um, but yeah, so I, I would say, I think, I think barrels of fun is I I'm excited. I think there's a lot of people that are excited to play Bon Jovi whenever they get a chance. And ah my guess is whatever the next big show is, if that's, uh, Chicago pinball expo and people get their hands on Bon Jovi, whatever distros have them in stock, they'll probably sell out. That's my assumption is once people play it, it's going to sell. So congrats to them for releasing that game, them selling well. Um,
Speaker: Multimorphic, obviously, I know there's no limit on those, but i've I've heard that they've sold well. So now we'll just wait and see once those get produced. um What else we have? We did have ah Big Lebowski. There's a Big Lebowski. ah Is it Jesus or Jesus edition? Excuse me? Big Lebowski. That's my lord.
Speaker: Yeah. um That was a surprise. Didn't see that one coming. Tom, have you ever been tempted to own a Big Lebowski? I will be 100% with you, Joel. No.
Speaker: Oh, okay. No, not at all. what's Why? Is it theme, company, shots? ah Yeah, theme. It took like 10 years to get it out. ah Yeah, about it. Okay.
Speaker: But no, i've I've had no interest. i've I've seen the movie briefly, but never like really got into it. Sure, sure. ah I've only played it a handful of times. I enjoyed it every time. I'd be happy to stream it, but it's not...
Speaker: I mean, I know some people that absolutely love it. They think when it's, it's one of the most like immersive games and with the different mechs in it and all that. I mean, Travis, do you have any strong feelings on Big Lebowski as a pinball machine? I dropped a few quarters in it here and there when it was on location, but it's just not your thing. Well, I love the theme.
Speaker: Okay. Like I watched the movie on a yearly basis, but the actual gameplay, yeah I mean, hopefully they sell them all out. It's just, it's just not my cup of tea. It's interesting that they that they went back to it to like, well, it's let's throw another art package at it and sell another 100. So i I found that. That was a surprise. I didn't see that coming. um If you're a huge Big Lebowski, if you're a pinball Big Lebowski lover, send us an email, triple drainage email, docahomber. Leave a comment on the YouTube video. Send us your email. Yes.
Speaker: ah yes um Talk about revisiting a theme. American Pinball is doing some interesting stuff. And so few things. they One, we have another Houdini. They they have another art package that they released.
Speaker: Good price point. Interesting. I don't know if this is just, hey, let's feel out the line. Let's get things moving. um I didn't know if the demand for Houdini is really there, but I think it's a cool look art package.
Speaker: I honestly, I've, I like, I, I used to do magic as a kid, like magic tricks, uh, illusions. Yeah. Oh yeah. And, uh, I was so popular. Let me tell you. Um, so I like, uh, I always, I always liked Houdini. Um, and, uh, so yes, it was something I was interested in. I've had fun streaming it. It is, it's a, the layout is challenging.
Speaker: Um, it's, But I also had a lot of mechanical issues with the Houdini I streamed ah to the point where I had to leave things unplugged. Otherwise, it would the game would freak out. So I'm very curious. you know Hopefully, American Pinball has fixed all those. So i just that was a surprise. New art package was a surprise. And then and then they're going back to a Galactic Tank Force.
Speaker: Not only did they make a new topper, they made a new addition of the game. It looks just like a pinball machine. It's not a tank. So new art there. Then they had ah a new sculpt. They modeled a new sculpt for the tank itself.
Speaker: And then they've added a bunch more to the code. So good on them for building that game out. um I didn't know GTF was a was a game that owners were upset about the code. But...
Speaker: they obviously They're revisiting that and fleshing that out. So I don't know if this is a, hey, we're trying to build some credibility. I know where're it's a new face, new new kind of side of American pinball. We're still going to support our old games.
Speaker: But um i I found that interesting. I don't know. what are your Did you guys have any feelings about ah Houdini or... gtf stuff that they've done or anything like that? mean, if you got parts and you need to get the line moving a little bit, get people active and people are going to buy it, why not? You know, it's, again, we talk about this a lot, but hopefully, hopefully people start understanding, you know, sometimes a manufacturer doesn't necessarily need an end consumer to buy the product right off the bat. They just need a dealer or a distributor to buy the product because it's B2B anyway. So,
Speaker: get it moving, build up your relationships and go from there. Cause otherwise if you don't put something out, then you're not even in the conversation. So let's face facts. Everybody is releasing a game nowadays. Like think about the ones that we haven't even been able to talk about yet. Like we haven't talked about like tales the Arabian night from Adretti, you know, and like, obviously we got Turks Voltaire that's coming out pretty soon from American pinball. And we know that they're, they've already,
Speaker: They're doing GTF. They've already done Houdini, I think. I don't know how many of those games have gotten out yet, but that was a few months ago. They announced that. And so then what? We're about to see probably another spooky announcement pretty soon. I mean, it's obvious that something has been filmed. Like, I i don't know if we've ever said what it is on here. So will not say the theme. The rumor is it's Goonies. Okay. The rumor is it's Goonies. All right. So keep in mind, Joel said that, not me. Joel said that. But... yeah So, yeah. So obviously something's being done with that. And then, you know, barrels just now came out with what Bon Jovi.
Speaker: yeah And then you've got Stern. It's, we're already just a couple of weeks away. around the corner. the next cornerstone. Is anybody having ah pinball fatigue? You know o i know, I mean, on a side conversation, I know i think we're all a little fatigued with the just the involvement we've had in in the hot, you know, Tom touring the world and streaming everything. Travis now lives and breathes pinball 40 plus hours a week. Yeah.
Speaker: I don't know if it's pinball fatigue as much as it is like certain parts of pinball fatigue. i know what I mean? I just mean like there's a lot of games coming out.
Speaker: Right. Yeah. Well, yeah. Yeah, like a wise man once said, too much pinball is like too much sex. That's true. Tom Graff. Tom Graff. Tom Graff. It's like sometimes you need you just need a cool-down period. That's all.
Speaker: yeah You just need a cool-down period. it' It doesn't mean like you still don't want pinball. Yeah, you still want pinball. It just means you can't have pinball two or three times in the same evening. That's all that means. yeah I would say, I mean, I know during COVID, Stern was down to two releases a year.
Speaker: And honestly, if they went back to that, I would be okay with it just because then it gives them more time to flesh out the games, more time to do whatever. it's I mean, now we're just complaining about having too much pinball, which is ridiculous. But I do think it's it's hard to appreciate...
Speaker: like It's almost hard to appreciate. Think of how much pinball has come out in the last five years. like The amount of games, it's it's crazy. Yeah, there's lots of choices. Tim Sexton was on a podcast. It was the but j b j b yes JBS podcast. and I don't know exactly what the question was Jamie had asked, but tos ah Tim's answer was when we design a game,
Speaker: We're trying to get this game needs to be like a top 10 game. Like now collectors have their their collection. So your game has to be better than all these games that are out there to justify somebody getting like replacing your game. And it's just it's just that I even as a collector, when you're always thinking about, OK, my collection, but there's always new games coming out. And are these games going to be better than what I have?
Speaker: It's quite ah an emotional like ride that we we can get on as a collector sometimes. The unique part about so many games coming out at one time, there's just so much noise that sometimes it's hard to tell, okay, what game is actually fully fleshed out?
Speaker: What game is, just like we talked about earlier, games that are further down the line What games are actually like the mechanics are all sorted out. You know, all the bugs are figured out. The game is pretty much like as is, you know, moving forward. Like that's why it's so unique to me that in this industry, all the prices are pretty much the same, but yet you may get a product that's nowhere near the same level as another product in terms of code design or next or theme. It's just, that's what's unique. That price is so static.
Speaker: across the board. So it's kind of, I know that there's a lot of people that wonder about that as well. Cause it's just like, like for instance, we had somebody come in the showroom earlier this week and they're looking around they see Godzilla. They're like, Oh, that's the number one game of all time right there. Like they did their research and you know, they understood that there was a lot of rules already there, that there's a lot of bells and whistles already there. And so yeah when they see that it's, it makes it very hard to move another game.
Speaker: when it's already so popular right when you compare it because then it just comes down the theme at that point oh interesting so yeah so the new collector the new collector looking at everything do okay they're looking at everything while us we're always looking at what the next thing is A thousand percent. A thousand percent. Yeah. That's that is like the unsecret. I could say the secret out loud because I don't like good luck for trying to replicate it. But the fact is when you're trying to grow pinball and you're trying to find brand new people to pinball, every theme is a new theme.
Speaker: Everything is a new theme. that's why That's why you see these games like right now, yes, we have Godzillas in stock, but we will not have Godzillas in stock by the time Christmas rolls around.
Speaker: Like they will be just flat out gone. Like we're selling them nearly every single day. So yeah this is a game that came out in 2021. You know, so it's, to me, it's like pinball enthusiasts. Yes.
Speaker: It is all about the next game that comes out and I get it. And there's certain hype around it. Like I get that point. I was just thinking of venom. They're putting it in the vault. Yup.
Speaker: Yup. That's another game that's gone now. Like, I it happens so quickly. It's just like Foo Fighters in the vault. Yeah, but wasn't Rush in the vault for a little while?
Speaker: And then all sudden it was out of the vault? I never heard it was out of the vault, but it was in the vault. They just built them in the vault. That's all. Yeah, I can't figure that out. You can't build in the vault. You're just supposed to release them. You got to build it and play in the vault. It's a good problem to have, I guess. It's a lot of pinball, but I realize this day and age, all of our attention spans are that of goldfish.
Speaker: So I get it. You want to be the first one, but to me, it's about compression. So if you're going to be one of the first ones to market for awareness, you better be ready to put games in locations, in homes, quick. Yeah.
Speaker: Because otherwise, what happens when you go six months down the line and there's yeah three other manufacturers that that have released games and you had slow sales out of the gate, then what? You have no social proof like and you're going against everybody else's social proof. It's kind of like good luck at that point. think it's what's weird is um how some releases have extreme pressure. Like I got to make a decision right now while others have none.
Speaker: and And obviously, we mentioned Goonies. If you want to get a Goonies pinball machine, your time to make that decision is maybe already up. Was yesterday. Yeah. It's already, the game hasn't been officially announced. We don't even know that that's the theme, but the demand for that, the next spooky title so high that all the distributors already have lists. So if you're not on a list, you better be ready to call day of and hope you get through, you know, that's crazy. So you have that on one end and then you have another game like Sonic that came out
Speaker: was an awesome game, but there is zero pressure to buy one right now because they've set no limit. They've set no time frame. So why not wait?
Speaker: Why not wait until you've played it, seen it? Like, why not? it's so it's It's very difficult to not have induced scarcity to the same buyers across the board when other companies do have induced scarcity.
Speaker: yeah The induced scarcity will win out every single time. And that's why like even Goonies, like realistically, if that game was $15,000, they would sell it out. And we're talking about like $15,000 MSRP.
Speaker: It would, it would no doubt in my mind, it would sell out. So, I mean, they're not, I don't know. I don't i don't know what Spooky is going to do, but they they haven't announced the game. They haven't announced a price for a game. They haven't anything, but they could almost set the price at whatever they want, as long as it's not absurd. But,
Speaker: I think what what would be absurd though in pinball nowadays? $30,000. Okay. Yeah. That'd be absurd. So 15 to 16. But if they did 15, I see what you're saying. If they, if whatever, they haven't set a number, let's say they increase their number to a thousand. They said, we're going to make a thousand Goonies and we've increased the price. They're now $15,000.
Speaker: I doubt the distros would get through their lists before they'd run out of spots. Oh yeah. People will pay ah you. Just look at Winchester. right now like if there's a game that people want i mean the same thing happened with godzilla during uh covid times like you were seeing premiums go for thirteen thousand dollars at that time and that was back in 2021 i remember i i got one i had got one of the godzilla premiums during covid and there was the slight hesitation i as excited as i was to have that game i'm like i could flip this right now and get a thousand dollars easy oh yeah yeah no doubt
Speaker: Well, it's it's an interesting spot to be in, but it's it's, yeah. Is it too much of a good thing? I don't know. I mean, I'm glad i'm glad there's that many options, but we've, ah okay, we've done P3 or Multimorphic. We've done Barrels of Fun. American Pinball. Circus Voltaire is coming out.
Speaker: Circus Voltaire is coming out hopefully soon. i will be completely honest with you guys. I am really looking forward to it. Like genuinely looking forward to Circus Voltaire. It's a good game.
Speaker: Why is it a good game, Tom? Cause it's got circus stuff in it.
Speaker: yeah Yeah. That's all we needed. Fucking A Tom graph. Fucking A. It's got circus stuff in it. Good night everybody.
Speaker: no circus with a q yeah it's got a unique layout the ringmaster somewhat cool mechanism uh you got the juggler thing where it juggles the balls yeah you get the neon light that comes down uh there's some cool stuff in the game you know yeah yeah uh I don't know. i I love the way it looks.
Speaker: I love the way I just, the style of it, the colors. I love the way it looks. I love the way it shoots. I genuinely enjoy that layout. There's there's a whimsicalness to it.
Speaker: And I also, I'm just becoming a sucker for unique pinball experiences that are still fun. Like I don't want unique for the sake of novelty. I want, like I like owning games that are harder to find on location.
Speaker: um Or something that just seems like Circus Full Terror is a game that seems very different than a lot of other games. My one hesitation, as I am curious if the code is going to get stale or old, um you had mentioned Toten, Tales of the Arabian Night. I had a chance to play that on stream a few weeks ago. I think we talked about it with Ralph. ah Everything about that game is great.
Speaker: Everything about that game is great. Build quality, lighting, the dots, the sound, everything about that game is great. I was genuinely considering, is this game going to replace Cactus Canyon?
Speaker: And the answer is no. There's two reasons why. One, my son did not really care for it. My wife thought it was o okay. And the night I streamed it, I got to the wizard mode three times.
Speaker: And that was just one of those, like, this is fun, but it's... Welcome to Toten. Yeah. It's like, okay. Like, I've... You'll see it pretty quick. I think it's a very well done pretty game, but oh yeah it could definitely use some coding help.
Speaker: And they've talked about it. They've talked about expanding and I'm curious what exactly they're going to do there. How much more they're going to add. um Are they just adding stuff for the sake of adding stuff? Like now it's just more choppy. I don't know.
Speaker: But that's just where it was today. It was when the when the game entered my house, I thought, is this game possibly going to be a replacement to Cactus Canyon? And relatively quickly, I said, as as great as it is. No, no, it's not. ah So that's where I view cir Circus Voltaire is I'm in a similar boat. This game has, it has it all the possibility in the world to be the game that would replace Cactus Canyon with a very approachable, fun, unique Valley Williams level game.
Speaker: um But we'll see. I mean, if it's just, if it, if it feels super shallow or gets old or anything, it, and why I don't know. I feel like with the way that Circus Voltaire's layout is and where the rules currently are, you really, that might be one of the few games out there that doesn't necessarily need like 2.0.
Speaker: or anything that. You know, not saying it's super deep. I'm just saying it may not necessarily need it because it's, the wizard mode on it is hard to get to for a lot of people. It's not it's not a guarantee.
Speaker: yeah So, I mean, i i just find it more entertaining. Like i I personally like the game. I think the game looks great. I like how like that neon tube light It comes all the way down. Like you rarely ever see that, but I've always found it hilarious that there's literally a plastic ball just right there on the left side. Like you see at a kid's ball pit, just hanging out right there. It's like, I can only imagine selling 10, $15,000 machines and you know, my plastic ball cracked. like, okay, let me go. Let me go to Chuck E. Cheese. I'll get you a replacement. Yeah. Exactly. Let's put a pink one in now. Yeah.
Speaker: i I don't know. i'm I am i am genuinely genuinely excited for this game. And I know this is the reimagined version. So I'm just curious what all they're going to add. Are they just adding more sculpts? are they adding Are they doing unique things with the lighting?
Speaker: The screen is going to be very... you know we've We've talked about this a lot about LCD screens. And I'm a sucker for dots. That's one thing Toten did incredibly well. their their screen They could not have done the screen better. xl display new dot animations the screen was perfect in my mind so i'm very curious to see i really hope the animations uh was the circus volterra game look good and are well done um so i have i personally have high hopes for circus volterra and i'm eagerly awaiting to see ah to see how that game's gonna be so that's definitely something that hopefully will be revealed within the next few weeks um So American Pinball, they might be on the way up. um you know
Speaker: it's i'm I'm very, very curious to see what's going on. What did they put out publicly? Because I'm making sure I don't say anything that's out of only thing they put out, there's a picture of the topper that they shared at one point. There was a picture they showed Melvin, and he's like leaning on the game, so you can see a little bit there. And then they, Kerry Hardy released another picture of one of the slingshots.
Speaker: ah So we've just seen like a slingshot. Well, it's kind of like, there's like a little toy on it. Yeah. You can see there's a on top of that. It's like a cannon, isn't it? Yeah. So they're doing, they're doing like drip marketing is what you're saying. There's just a little bit of here and there. Little tease, little tease here and there.
Speaker: Oh, they're teasing. Oh, they're teasing. um they ah I mean, I'm i'mm zooming in I'm like, let me see that picture. I'm zooming in. I'm i'm just curious what they're going do. I'm curious what they're going to do. Obviously, I hope the sound is good.
Speaker: i don't know if they're going to adjust the rules at all, but um you know I want to you the full package. You really don't have to do much. or for like marketing a remake. And here's why, because people, you're not marketing this to a brand new person, right? We were just talking about that earlier. Like yeah a brand new person who's just now discovering pinball. They're not like, oh yeah, the the theme of Circus Voltaire. Oh yeah, the theme of Tales Rabin. Like they have no idea.
Speaker: So your main avatar that knows that are people that are already fully in the pinball industry, right? So all you have to prove to them is that you have a functional game that's in the same spirit of the original.
Speaker: is like feels like it's built well if it's at a show. Yeah. And that's, that's pretty much it. Like just respect, you know, the original as much as you can and then fix the things that you feel like needs to be fixed. Whether it's like a bug or a mechanics or slightly different art, if you want to go that way, or like Brian Allen, Ellie artwork. Like it's the bar to me is like, it's super low.
Speaker: to please the people for these games, as long as you're picking the right theme, right? Because obviously, like we talk about a fun house, right? That's not going to be as big a theme as Circus Voltaire or Tails or Attack from Mars Monster Bash, but there's still certain themes out there. Like I think Circus Voltaire is one of those that I don't know if it'll move 750 to 1,000 units. I'm not sure, but I think it can definitely move 500. I think there'll be enough people out there that are interested in it.
Speaker: And kind of the same way with like, I don't know, Creature from the Black Lagoon. I think a lot of people would still remember that one. So it's yeah yeah it's more or less just show that you can build a great game, and show that you can manufacture a great game. That's that's more than anything. Just show it just works.
Speaker: That's what people want to see. It'd be nice. Completely agree. I mean, everything that you just said, you know, who's been the most successful at that? CGC, all their remakes. How much, did they do anything crazy? No, they just brought in a bigger display, colored dots.
Speaker: a little better sound system and then added some lighting. Like it wasn't until the CGC lineman upgrade kit did they touch the rules. They didn't need to. It just, and they, they've sold a ton of monster of medieval madnesses, monster bashes, attack from Mars.
Speaker: So I think that's what, if American pinball is getting into the remake game, They really kind of they got to come out strong. This game's got to feel well built. It's got to be, you know, from an electronic standpoint, software standpoint, you know, just...
Speaker: Yeah, let's be strong. That's how I would be. I'd be positioning this game. Like i you're going into a time machine into the 90s. Like this is what you remember. Yeah. you know, something like that. they People want that nostalgic feeling all the time. This is the best, in a perfect world, this is the best built Circus of Altair you're ever going to play.
Speaker: You know, best built, cleanest, and look at all the new stuff we've added. New sculpts, new lighting, new whatever. so Yep. Well, cool. um I just looked at my list. We covered everything that I wanted to cover. Whoa.
Speaker: anything Anything else before we wrap up that you guys want to discuss? I mean, golf carts? What you think, Tom? My golf cart's great. That's what we're talking about. It's great. It's a great golf cart.
Speaker: It's really good. If you need a golf cart recommendation, shoot me an email. I can send you a link to the one we bought. No regrets. You know, sometimes in life when you buy big things, you research them, research them, research them, and you think about them. Pinball is a perfect example. You think, you think, you you think. Then you finally buy it, and then a week or two afterwards, you're like, did I make the right choice? I know. I've had zero regrets with my the golf cart we bought. Zero. And maybe it's just because the previous golf cart was a piece of junk. So this one is so much better. Does it have a built-in cooler?
Speaker: and Well, now I hate it, Tom, because it doesn't. and You can add one That's fine. So I guess here's here's what's interesting before we leave. I guess... So right now we're in mid-August or towards the end of August getting there. Yep. So we have... When is Expo?
Speaker: Mid-October. So we're less than two months away. Damn. Right? So we know the newest game from Stern will be there. Yep. Which will... be fallout allegedly yeah and then so we know bon jovi will be there yep and let's see is anybody like anything anything new would be i assume like what else could possibly be there should be there okay i would think maybe a new manufacturer that we don't know of oh you're saying new games i mean no he's gonna be focused on sonic game that would be coming yeah jjp will be focused on sonic stern's gonna be focused on fallout
Speaker: Barrels of Fun is going to be focused on Bon Jovi. American Pinball will be focused probably on Circus Voltaire. I wonder, do you think Multimorphic would actually bring a ton of Dungeon Crawler Carls up there?
Speaker: i think they'll bring... I almost feel like you have to. I feel like it's usually one of their distributors, right? That's always there. Yeah. yeah like Last time there was just one or two games there though, right?
Speaker: So you're saying they should, yeah if you were Jerry, you'd be load up a load up ah a truck. We got to get six or. I think this is the time where you got to show. You got to show. It's the most attended pinball show of the year. Is chi Chicago Pinball Expo bigger than TPF? I would think so. Are you girls wanting to say hi? I mean, I know TPF is pretty big. I've been to both, but I want to say Chicago Expo is bigger. my My daughters want to say hi to you too. Is that the one you like more?
Speaker: Um, do I like you more than Thea? I do. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Cool. Yeah. You got the one you like and the one for spares, right? Yeah. Well, who's your favorite parent? Yeah.
Speaker: Frank, your favorite parent? Me? Okay. That's what I thought. You're not mad about Toy Story anymore, right? You're still mad about Toy Story? The pinball machine? Do you remember that? She looks mad. It was her favorite one. She starts Oh, she's crying and she walked off the screen. No. yeah Okay. Well, do you have anything else to say are you just going to stand there like a statue?
Speaker: Okay. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. There you go. Wonderful. Last time my kid came on screen, it's because I needed to wipe his buns. Goodbye. Yeah, Monica. 5 p.m. is coming quick. Two kids came down here just staring me. There's nothing more unnerving.
Speaker: When you have three women just standing there staring at you. What'd you do is the question. Exactly. That's what I'm wondering. Or what happened. Yeah. All right. What broke? Too bad we're not talking about Disney right now. You're princesses. That's it. You're three princesses right there. Oh, gosh. Let me tell you. Okay. So anyway, going into Expo, knowing all those games are coming. I'm glad I have three boys.
Speaker: Yeah, exactly. To me, it's like, if I'm multimorphic, i'm I'm trying to blow it out this time. Like, I have to show that, because this game's going to be popular, just theme alone.
Speaker: So this is your chance. Go big. Yeah, this is the chance right here to really solidify. Because just like we talked about what happened with Dune, when Winchester came out and people played it last year at Expo, all sudden Dune sales went up. Yeah.
Speaker: We didn't talk about Turner Pinball. Turner Pinball is Yukon Yetis have shipped. Yeah, there's another that came out. Which I think crazy because TPF, like, there are some people that said the game of the show was Yukon Yeti. I played Yukon Yeti.
Speaker: Well, you played one. I played one. it? Did you like it? It reset on me. Oh! I got into the multiball and it reset. ah Avalanche, dude. There was an avalanche.
Speaker: Oh, that's a bummer. that's do you i guess it's a known code bug, I was told, so... oh Oh, you started multi-ball? Oh, no, no, you don't want to that. That's it crashes. um i I think we're going to get one eventually. I'm excited to play it. i just I've never had a Turner pinball machine here, but how did it feel? ah Pretty good, actually. Good. I mean, it kind of had that whitewater feel, but not really. But, you know, was cool. I liked it.
Speaker: Awesome. i know what i played of it I know the the initial feedback was the sound was awful. And then they went out and got the guy that did the sound for Whitewater. Chris Granner.
Speaker: Oh, okay. Perfect. And he's the the guy, they got him. No, is somebody out of retirement, but they're like, he hasn't done pinball sound in a long time. And yeah, they got him and he's doing it now. So good on Turner for, for improving that, but.
Speaker: No, there's there's a lot of pinball. There's a lot of pinball going on. um And yeah, I think we've covered a lot in this episode. I apologize. It was a really long time since our last episode. But that's for me, not from Tom or Travis. They don't like you guys. so um True. If people complain, we'll wait longer. ah The music was done by Chris Granner, which that is the third time I've said it. Oh, is that? So Tom was right. um hey I don't know why we ever questioned you, Tom. don't know.
Speaker: Joel, I'm your elder. you mean, why we? That's you questioning. I was being silent. I knew Tom was right. I knew he was. I know you need to fact check Travis because he's pulling stuff out of his butt all day. Hey, I told you my goal was to start so many rumors off this podcast today. i don't think you did. Travis, I only have $2 left.
Speaker: No way. That's awesome. You had a you had a big old stack. Well, the Joel jar, i apparently I have tropes and I filled every single one of them. That is fantastic.
Speaker: Yep. Okay. Well, let's, ah who are you donating that money to, Tom? Which children's hospital? is that are None. None. don't like children? I've accidentally made four of them. Like, no, that's not what this is about. Joel?
Speaker: We're going to have three kids through college. How many kids we got between all three of us in this podcast? I've got two. Tom's got three and you've got four. After two, you already chopped your nuts off or something. Whatever it was that we talked about last year. Travis, you want to do that math for us? I have two, you have four, and Tom has three. That would be 25. Let's go. Nailed it. That we know of. True, true, true, true. All right.
Speaker: Let's plug it up. Let's go ahead and plug it up now. um ah Tom, go for it. I occasionally do this podcast, but when I don't, I'm on the road streaming everywhere.
Speaker: yeah so my next big stream. Fox City Spinball. I guess. Yeah, that's the point. Yeah. yep Yeah. I won't talk about Papa 23 and their charity event. Go ahead, Joel.
Speaker: No, you hadn't said your name yet. Oh, no, I know. You kept interrupting me. so I'll just put $2 in there. Thank you. um so travis is laugh So Papa 23 will be the next big one I'm streaming at the Pinball Capital, which I guess they have their own new ah Twitch channel now.
Speaker: so what's Which I won't be streaming on. It's called the Pinball Capital, so if you want to follow. But I guess they're going to be streaming some some pinball tournaments there.
Speaker: I can't go there every day. um And then, whatchamacallit, so it Papa 23, it is the the World Championship. It is also for Lyman Sheets.
Speaker: And the 988 suicide prevention. So it's a good charity. If you can get out to the tournament and play, ah that would be awesome.
Speaker: I think there's like 200 people signed up or something crazy like that. Nice. That's awesome. Yeah. Fox sees pinball on Twitch and, uh, Silverball swag. Silverball swag. Check out his stuff, uh, as well. So ah sure thank you Tom for being here. yeah Um, Travis, what do you got?
Speaker: I'm Travis from Triple Drain Pinball Podcast. That's all I got. Just hopefully Monica didn't hear that last part because now she's going to questioning me the whole time. How many kids you actually got? I'm like, don't know. It's that we know of, okay, that you know of. Yeah. um Awesome, Travis. Thank you for being here. And yeah, I'm Joel. I do the Flippin' Out ah YouTube channel every Wednesday night with my brother, Jared. You can check out my live streams there as well as some the tutorials. And then Silver Ball Swag. We have Silver Ball Swag for Triple Drain on...
Speaker: uh, well on silver ball swag. So if you want any merch, you can do that. It's, it's always interesting seeing, you know, we sell roughly a shirt a month, which is pretty cool. So thanks for all the people that support us for that. Uh, thank you all the Patreon people. If you want to support us on Patreon, check out Patreon and triple drain. I really am amazed that you guys are still supporting us and we really, we really appreciate it. Uh, because we're trying, we're trying, I would love to get back to a monthly schedule. Uh, but life gets busy and we try to do this as much as we can.
Speaker: Um, but yeah, I think that's about it. So like always, Tom, uh, you get the last words. Drink Mountain Dew.
