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Why Creativity Helps You Succeed with Veronica Scarpellino
188 Plays7 months ago
Defining success in creative industries can be challenging. Not to mention marketing, sales, and networking. In this episode, Veronica Scarpellino, founder of Goldfinch Leadership talks with Lisa and Dan about how artists can repurpose their creative strengths as tools to take the stress out of doing the business of art.
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Connect with Veronica:
Website: https://www.goldfinchleadership.com/
LinkedIn: @veronicascarpellino
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Transcript
Introduction to Wise Heart at One and Be Make Do Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey Lisa. Hey Dan. This Wise Heart at One series is awesome. It is. Having such a good time with it. I want to spend a little bit more time with it. Maybe we should create something. That's a great idea. Maybe something like a study guide. A study guide? Yes. That sounds awesome. Where would I get that at? Well, actually, if you go over to soulmakers dot.org backslash BMakeDo, you can download a free Wise Hearted One study guide right now. It's got lots of great questions, some word studies and a little bit of commentary for you and maybe a group of people to go through together.
00:00:37
Speaker
That's awesome. That's what I'm going to do right now. What are you going to do? I'm going to go to soul makers dot org backslash be make do and download your free study guide.
00:00:58
Speaker
Well, hello. Welcome to Be Make Do, a Soul Makers podcast where we explore what it takes to live out your call in the arts with spiritual wholeness and creative freedom. I'm your host, Lisa Smith, here with my producer, Dan ABH. Hello, everyone. And it is our passion to encourage you to become who you are created to be, make what you are created to make, and do what you are created to do. So this summer, we are exploring some of the questions that came out of the Wise Hearted One series in our previous podcast episodes about the artist's call of Bezalel in Exodus. And don't forget, the discussion guide is available on our website if you're interested in going deeper with that.
Challenges Artists Face with Impact Measurement
00:01:40
Speaker
But today we are talking with Veronica Scarpellino of Goldfinch Leadership to talk more practically about one of the issues we raised in that series. And that is the challenges artists can face around measuring the impact of our work and overcoming the obstacles that make us doubt. So I'm really excited to have Veronica with us here today. She is a formally trained coach and artist who incorporates creative sensibilities as a leadership and executive coach. She's the founder of Goldfinch Leadership, which supports small and mid-sized businesses and creative professionals to leverage creative problem solving, emotional intelligence, and an ethical business sense.
00:02:26
Speaker
With over 20 years of immersive experience and formal coaching, she specializes in guiding professionals through transitions, emphasizing the transformative potential of creative thinking. So welcome, Veronica. You are the person we definitely want to talk to you today. Thanks for being here. Thank you so much for inviting me, Lisa. Yeah, yeah i i I was very um excited to come across your work and the way that you integrate creative thinking and practices and really value that within business, but also the way that you're able to talk with creatives about the business that they do. So you you kind of sit at a really unique vantage point, which is so, so needed.
00:03:11
Speaker
Yeah, unsiloing between the idea of being in your studio and being at work is really important. yeah And also dispelling the myths that we have around what it means to be creative and inviting more ah definitions and more people into that identity of being creative. That's one of my missions. Well, okay, so one of the first things I was curious about was for you to tell us a little bit about the need that you saw, that you see that led you to this current work that you've developed. I'm guessing you see a lot of people who feel stuck or doubt their impact or just are facing challenges that seem overwhelming. I mean, is that something that you struggled with or you notice? Why is that so important for you personally?
Veronica's Creative Journey and Goldfinch Leadership
00:03:57
Speaker
Yeah, and I'm really glad you started with those universal pains that we all feel um because regardless of whether you're in the medical industry or a creative in design or fine art, these are universal experiences that we all have. And so part of part of it was a personal journey for myself, an unlearning of different definitions of of ways of being, and um you know ah a a sort of re-envisioning of what my own identity is. As a small child, I i loved art, I loved making, and it felt really fulfilling.
00:04:38
Speaker
But all around me, I had family members who were experts in all of their different fields, whether it was medical or science and engineering or in something that's more tangibly creative. um And and do the what was evident through my experiences with these family members was that the doctor was also a painter and a carpenter. The science guy who was really into engineering also loved to build and cook and host parties. Another engineer was also amazing at drawing, building Legos and um and solving problems.
00:05:23
Speaker
And so growing up, there was just this overarching creative experience. Then I get into college where I really start feeling the pinch of the siloing that happens, the ah level of expertise, but also the um the exclusionary aspect of it. right An artist is this and is not this. ah So I followed along you know as a student. This is what you do. You take the advice of your the experts in your field. But it was didn't quite sit right, and I never was able to identify that. Well, flash forward, in the early 2000s, I just moved to Philadelphia, and I was really making a go of being a fine artist. My medium was found object mixed media sculpture, things that were discarded, repurposing them, putting new life into them, giving them new meaning. It was really gratifying.
00:06:21
Speaker
um But I was also, for years, had been working in galleries, museums, working with artists. And it was um that peek behind the curtain that didn't really sit well with me. And I realized, this isn't really the path that I want to take in being a professional artist. And it became an identity crisis. right If I'm not an artist, who am I? What am I? um and But yeah I still didn't have an alternative, so I continued to support creative people, artists and creative businesses. um Founded my own company, helping artists to stand up the systems that they needed to run it as a business.
00:07:01
Speaker
that led me into working with other creative businesses that were um a little less artist, but more craftsman. um And that led me into working in higher education, helping um artists and designers chart a career path. So kind of bringing things back together. And it was at that advent of discussing how to make a living as an artist, not just as um a visual artist, but as somebody with a more ah marketable skill set where it really started to smack me in the face again about this unsiloing. And I became frustrated with how creative individuals could be exceptional in the studio. But when it came to something like um envisioning their own career path and writing a resume even, they would shut down, I can't do this. When it's the same rules, it's the same structure, it's the same tactics translated into a different area.
00:08:00
Speaker
And so when I founded Goldfinch Leadership, one of the things I was very intentional about was not working exclusively with creative people who had a traditional creative output, but working with the mindset of being creative.
Embracing a Broader Creative Identity
00:08:16
Speaker
So I don't care if you're an accountant, an engineer, right a consultant, a coach, but there is a very creative process that's involved in all of these fields and helping both sides, the very artistically creative people, identify how to apply those skills outside of the studio and helping the very analytical expertly mindset recognize what they're doing is doing already is creative and how to apply that to other areas of their life where they're uncomfortable. um It's incredibly gratifying, more so than
00:08:53
Speaker
The art making had been, this was my new craft, my new medium. And my new identity shifted from being, I am an artist to I am creative, which became way more empowering. Interesting. Because if you're creative, when you're faced with that obstacle, when you're overwhelmed, you trust yourself to have the tools and the know-how to figure it out. Right. And because of that iterative process that you take when you're an artist, You try again, plan B, learn from a mistake, prototyping, iteration. And it is really empowering and a place to um really make strong moves from. Yeah. There's two things that popped out from, there's so many questions that actually are coming to mind as you're talking. But the first thing, when you were talking about um working as a found object artist and and seeing things and then
00:09:53
Speaker
helping them to have new life and become something different. Like I see the parallels between what you were doing as a visual artist and what you're doing now in your business. And I think that that is such a great example of what we talk about in the make what you were created to make, that it's not just the um the artifact that you create or that thing that you do, it has also to do with who you are and and the gifts and the way that you see the world. And then that that calling, that piece of your calling will show up you know in lots of different ways over the course of your life and career. And you can understand that you're still being true to your calling. It's just manifesting in a different way, which is so typical for artists. right you know Because you're always exploring something new. that's That's what kind of keeps us energized in a way. right So it's cool to see that that through line for you. I can see it really clearly. I i love that you spotlighted that because I agree. um
00:10:53
Speaker
you know repurposing
Applying Creative Thinking Beyond Arts
00:10:54
Speaker
things, ah collecting information, never knowing where you're going to use it. right um It's almost like I ah can save information and pass it along to those that need it. work um A really important process in creative thinking is to be able to to to find innovative solutions. And if you don't have the tools at your the right tools at your disposal to do that, you can't move forward. A carpenter can't build a table without a hammer and a saw and in some form a binding element. right Well, to create a solution, if you don't have an experience, a piece of knowledge, or or or you know ah that object to relate to, you don't have the tools to make those associations.
00:11:43
Speaker
Some of the most amazing innovations in in in the in the world came from outside of the domain of expertise. Velcro came from looking at nature. A lot of it comes from looking at nature, in fact, but the repurposing of ideas is one of the creative processes that I i work through with my clients. Wow. I love that. Well, so you brought up um but probably the number one stress point for artists, which is how do I make a living as an artist and that like, I i can't do marketing or yeah, I don't know how to write an artist statement or the, you know, it's just so overwhelming to me. But you said,
00:12:21
Speaker
Well, they are you already have the skills what could you talk a little bit more about that? Just just briefly to kind of wetter appetite Sure. So one of the um the first steps and I still battle with this So this is not this is not like I found the solution and I've got an easy pathway in front of me but one of the one of the the mindsets that you can take is that the creative process unfolds in all of these areas and And if you're creative, you can do it in these other areas. So whether it's sales or marketing, ah part of it is finding the the the right way of framing it for yourself that feels authentic and leans into your strengths. And where you're not strong, you're recognizing that and
00:13:09
Speaker
and filling those gaps in one form or another, hiring somebody, partnering, using a tool, right? Those are great solutions. But let's say, for example, that um in the studio, you're really comfortable with the idea of setting constraints for yourself. Because if you um if you're told that you can make any piece of art you want in any medium, any topic, any colors, There's no budget, spend what you need. Oh, and take as long as you need to do it. That's pretty paralyzing. Yeah, exactly. I was like, freeze. Right. Sounds great, but it's freeze. Right. But if you put in, if you have constraints or you put in false constraints of, you know, it has to be of this size, this medium, these colors, one topic, and I have a week to do it. And I also have $10.
00:14:06
Speaker
It might seem counterintuitive, but those constraints end up creating the atmosphere for immense creative freedom. yeah And so setting constraints is a tactic. creative It's a creative thinking tactic that can be applied in other areas too. So when you're overwhelmed by marketing, Pick one audience member. And by that, I mean an individual. Pick a person to speak to. right um What's the one message that you want to get across? Can you do it in one paragraph? right And you have one hour to put this together. And then walk away, just like you do in the studio. Walk away, come back with fresh eyes. And then set new constraints. 15 minutes, then sit down and work on this.
00:14:55
Speaker
Yeah, i'm writing I'm writing so many notes down right now. But that's just one tactic that you can borrow from your studio work and apply to another area of your your business. Yeah, that's so great. I think that's really important to, I mean, that kind of gets to um ah something else, which also goes into this conversation, understanding and valuing what creativity is. like I find a lot of um a lot of creatives don't necessarily, they feel like they get to do what they do.
00:15:34
Speaker
And don't realize don't stop and maybe think about all the hours that they've spent in developing these very specific techniques and skills and abilities that, yes, are translating to something on the on the page or on the stage or you know in the in the arena or whatever wherever you are, but that they actually translate into a whole other ah so you know slew of of areas and that um and it transforms the way that they see the world. and so That also kind of shows up in the way that they are with people and in what they're saying and what they're contributing to the world.
00:16:12
Speaker
I'm sure like part of your business is talking with, um you know, business professionals, those that are not artists to encourage creativity and to show them that they are creative and that in, in you know, church circles, there's a lot of that to encouraging people you need because we're saying you need to engage your creative. abilities and people are afraid of that. So we spend a lot of time encouraging them. Yes, you are creative. But on the flip side of that is, um you know, those people who have spent a lot of time and energy developing those creative skills and abilities, um and those also who are just kind of naturally, um you have superpowers in that area. And I think sometimes ah for artists,
00:16:58
Speaker
I'm finding that because there's so much encouragement that everyone is creative, they kind of forget that not everybody can do what they do. You know, like everybody, i you know, everybody can do math, but I would have to work really hard to do it really well. You know, I have a certain level of ability, but then I have to work and I need to work with somebody like you to like really build up my capacity for that. And so, yeah, I just wonder if you could talk a little bit about that, about what's required to develop and why it's valuable. You just brought up again, you know, that's my turn from the slew of things that i go for I want to react to, but you know, you're talking about a level of mastery. Yeah. ah Taking a strength that you innately have and bringing that to mastery, which can lead to flow.
00:17:45
Speaker
that idea of just almost channeling and not being able to not having to think about the muscle movements, the tool, because that's so ingrained in you. You get to go next level to the idea and the process and not have to think about each step along the way. And mastery can be gained in all kinds of domains, even outside of the creative arts. And you know when you're talking about artists and how everybody can be creative, i you know one of the things that I'm careful about when I talk about ah creative thinking is that it's a thinking style. um Art is one expression of creative thinking, but it is not the only expression of creative thinking. So somebody can be very creative, but be a terrible artist.
00:18:33
Speaker
And somebody can be incredibly creative and be an amazing artist. right So it's your area of expertise. um It's also where you spent your time developing that sense of mastery, hopefully in a way that leans into your personal thinking style. So some of us are really good at what's called divergent thinking, where you can come up with a lot of ideas. And many artists and very creative people have no trouble coming up with ideas. And in fact, they could give them all away and still have oodles pouring out of them. right um For them, the challenge is, which one do I choose first? And how do I start it? And how do I follow that through to execution? yeah So keep for the creatives that are really good at divergent thinking, that's the challenge that we work on together. How do you move toward actual execution?
00:19:33
Speaker
making this idea into reality.
Defining Success and Personal Values
00:19:35
Speaker
Then there's another thinking style that's really good at convergent thinking. And those are dealing with the facts and figures, the reality and the practicality of things. And those, you know, if you're ever talking to somebody about it, this great idea you have, and they say, well, um it's never been done before, so no, we can't do it. Or we don't have the budget. Or um we won't get approval for that. They're somebody who's probably really good at convergent thinking. They're very practical. You need both. You need to be able to conceptualize and then drive forward with action. So for many of the people who are very good at convergent thinking, they can be creative within their domain, but maybe they can learn how to be a better divergent thinker.
00:20:23
Speaker
And I see a lot of people who talk about creativity dwelling specifically around the idea of brainstorming, coming up with new ideas, new solutions, and that's great for the convergent thinkers. right Artists, the great divergent thinkers, don't need to come up with more ideas. They've got it. Enough with the ideas. um And no, you can't do all of them at once. And no, your finished beautiful idea has to start somewhere. That then brings us to this idea of of success. you know You're talking about these divergent thinkers who have lots of great ideas. And um you know you you have great visions and hopes.
00:21:07
Speaker
for what this baby that you have birth or our birthing um is going to do out in the world. and and And even just sometimes that's just that it's going to be meaningful and touch somebody. um ah But it could be anything from that to I'm going to be famous or you know I'm going to have an exhibit in this space or whatever. I think for those in the arts industries, it can be challenging to define success.
00:21:37
Speaker
you know to know like it There's this never ending wheel it feels like sometimes of what you can do or what you need to do in order to feel like you've accomplished something, feel like you've made an impact, feel like you're successful. But it's not the same thing as selling a widget necessarily and I think sometimes it can be challenged especially in the 21st century in the United States to be you know in your gut I would say most artists feel like if I just I create the thing and I release it into the world and somebody experiences it and enjoys it like that was what it was meant for. um God's going to use that however but
00:22:21
Speaker
Also, there's like how many followers on social media, you know, how many likes did I get? Is anybody talking about it? Can you talk a little bit about how to think about success or impact in ways that maybe are helpful and not paralyzing, especially for those in creative industries? So I would say success can't be defined for you. You have to define success for yourself. And that sounds great, but how do you do that? um One of the first things that you can do, a real practical exercise, is figure out what you value, what's important to you. And there are a lot of wonderful tools online that you can go to to ah to go through a values exercise. They usually start with a generated list of words that you read and you pick out the words that resonate for you. And not the words that you think are supposed to resonate for you, but the words that actually do.
00:23:19
Speaker
Yeah. And you know money is one of those things that is elusive at times. But pursuit of money itself is, I mean, that's a pathway for pain. So why do you want the money? Underneath that, your core value may be something like personal freedom. It might mean safety. It might mean family. So underneath money or wealth is this idea of what your core value is. And when you release the specific idea and go to the core value, that's your aspiration. That's what really drives you. That's the truth.
00:24:06
Speaker
And without that specific outcome, you'll find ways to fulfill that truth in ah an array of ways that may include money, but also includes something else. yeah So that can start to help re reframe and um change your mindset around what success might mean. um I was reading a book that challenged me to redefine what wealth meant, that it wasn't necessarily something that meant money
00:24:37
Speaker
um And autonomy over my time is an amazing source of wealth. Time is my family. I have a small child that I want to spend quality time with. that those are That's a really important element of what would mean for me to be wealthy. And yes, like financial freedom and security for my family. Those are core values that drive everything else. That clarity can be a really strong guiding point for anybody and for artists. The never ending wheel that you were describing, that chasing of the next thing,
00:25:17
Speaker
I mean, that shows up everywhere. That shows up in every industry at all levels. And one of the methods that you can apply to stop the wheel is to reflect and to celebrate. Because if you were to sit down every week and review all of your accomplishments, small and large, and acknowledge how far you'd come in one week, that pressure to chase the next thing isn't so dire.
00:25:54
Speaker
That is so huge. Celebration is, we talk about how bad we are at that all the time. Yes. Dad, I see your like your face. I was waiting for a comment. Yeah, what's going on there? It's very resonating to hear that. um And I think you're 100% right, Veronica, about the like, once you, okay, first of all, we try to do this with the podcast, we're like, okay, what's next, what's next, what's next? And then sometimes we'll pause every quarter to be like, okay, hold on, let let's have some successes here, right? so
00:26:27
Speaker
um And it feels really good. It makes you feel more grounded when you do that. And I'm i'm a musician and I'm in a few bands, but one of my main bands, we try to do this all the time with, and it is helping us as a band collectively. So all members in it. um But yeah, that really resonates a lot. I do want to bring up the difficulty of what it takes to reach the goals for success. And like I always say, ah we get artists fatigue. You know what I mean? And so here's a question for you. how How do you know it's worth it? Like how do you keep going when it's hard, when you have that artist fatigue, where you do the show or you do the thing and then all of a sudden the next day you have to upload things for syncing and do the marketing piece and do 50 hours of social media and
Balancing Personal and Professional Life
00:27:20
Speaker
all that. I guess what I'm saying is that how do you know when to quit or when to push through?
00:27:27
Speaker
That one's for me. That one's for me, Veronica. and i'm trying i try to like Do I go big picture or i do i do I just talk to you? um So there are so many things that, again, that you were saying that that that jumped out. And, you know, when you have a show and you want your instant gratification for how many people showed up and how many people are like dancing and applauding. And I will tell you, I'm one of those frustrating audience members who sits there quietly, but I'm taking it all in. So you know back to that idea of the thinking styles, you know you can't judge everybody through the same filter. So you never know what your reach is because that quiet person in the back might be your biggest fan. So that's one thing.
00:28:15
Speaker
um There's also, and and whether you're putting on a big art exhibition, throwing a party, having a gig, there's that crash that happens afterwards that you have your anticipation, you have the event itself. And often we don't give ourselves the attention necessary for the aftermath of it. And recognize that the the arc of the emotions that goes through that is different for everybody too. um You might think of it as one stagnant event, but it's actually, if you think of it, it's broken into three. The lead up, the anticipation and preparation for it. Some people, that's where they get stuck.
00:28:58
Speaker
the event itself. This, you think in terms of like, are you an extrovert, an introvert, an ambivert? Some people get really energized by the event itself. Others, though they like people, it's draining. And so then the aftermath. What do you need afterward to process what just happened? Do you need to keep going? Extroverts want to like go and have, you know, the after party. Introverts are like, don't talk to me. I'm gonna melt into a puddle as soon as the door closes and I just need that time to process and both are okay Because they're they're what you need but who else needs to be enlisted in this? um Do you know are they somebody that you you need to?
00:29:41
Speaker
and list for support because you need like, don't let me cancel because that period ahead of time is where I have my anxiety. Once I get through that, I'm great. So don't indulge me and offer to cancel. Okay. That's one example. Um, you're at the event. You have somebody who's keeping an eye on you and they see that you're starting to get overwhelmed or that you need to be rained in. What can they do? And then that aftermath, how can you support each other to give each other that space and what you need? And where can you find that balance? So you know that can help with the artist fatigue in the moment. But when you go to the next day and you have your crash from what else am I going to anticipate? We're not excited about uploading 50 files.
00:30:29
Speaker
Can you gamify it? What can you do that's within your strength to make it something a little bit more interesting until you can pawn it off on somebody else, right? Until you can delegate it. um And there are a lot of um what I call creative intelligence um tactics that you need to deploy. And in my in my definition, because this is a phrasing that I'm using for lack of better wording, um Creative intelligence is using your emotional intelligence, your self-awareness and ability to self-regulate as the pathway to greater creative thinking. You can't think expansively and creatively about possibilities and the future if you're in survival mode. e yeah If you're in fight, flight, or freeze, you're in survival mode. But within that is information.
00:31:22
Speaker
What artist hasn't been immensely frustrated with the process? That frustration is actually crucial. So it's not like you want to avoid it. You want to use it. You want to learn from it. And you want to use it as a catalyst.
00:31:37
Speaker
right So creative intelligence is the the synergy, the power of your emotions powering your creative thinking, which in turn generate emotions, which in turn go into creative thinking. Yeah. I really love the way you explained the whole process. It's like systematic, but like in a good way, like it's systematic where every, you know, the introvert and the extroverts and the beginning, the middle, the end, the after party, it's such a, it's so weird because I feel like.
00:32:12
Speaker
We try like I think a lot of artists try to think that way until the thing is happening. And then when the thing is happening, it's like amnesia. Here comes a doubt. Here comes the fatigue. Here comes. Was it good enough? Here come. You know what I mean? I really, really love what you said. It's a process and it's not something that you figure out and never have to think about again. And like with anything, you're going to suck at it at first. it's gonna You're going to fail, you're going to fall flat on your face, but um if you're able to reflect back on it and say, oh, that's where I went wrong, then you have a greater likelihood the next time it comes up to be like, oh wait, this feels familiar. um Now that I'm paying attention to it, now that I'm paying attention to the number 23, I see it everywhere. Now that i'm I'm thinking about red cars, they're all over the place. Now that I'm thinking about frustration, wow, I didn't realize throughout the day I get frustrated so much.
00:33:03
Speaker
What happens after? Yeah, it's very spiritual in a sense. yeah got It's like reflection, discernment, you know? And an interesting thing is that if you can imagine a future event and what you want to have happen, your brain doesn't know that it didn't happen yet. So it's almost like you're practicing for it. And then when that event starts to happen, you're much more likely to do the thing you planned than to go with um your your old habitual pattern. But that's the thing. It's a habitual pattern. Those are hard to break. They're really ingrained. It's like the, I'm not a neuroscientist, but the neural pathways are like the beaten path of your brain or the groups in a record, if you will. you it's going You're going to want to go down that path.
00:34:00
Speaker
It's just the the least resistance. Building a new one, if you start if you start walking a new pathway through the woods, at first it's going to be difficult. right Over time, that will start to beat down and will become easier to walk and the old path will start to grow over. That's sort of like what happens in your head. So it takes time. But that old path, that can that can be picked up again and reinforced very quickly. Yeah, let's not go that way. Well, that's why it's so helpful to have um tools and frameworks and structures that help you. Like I'm even I relate to that.
00:34:38
Speaker
because I'm a crash person at the end. But ah three weeks ahead of time, I'm not thinking that I have a lot of energy this week. So on my calendar, you know, I might schedule a bunch of stuff and then I get there in that crash zone and I have a full week. And I think, why did I do this to myself? And now I am so dragging and I just want to cancel everything. And I've started to observe that and try to be really disciplined. Like the calendar becomes a tool for me. You know, I will write on there, you know, nothing, nothing. same you know and and i So I'm wondering, yeah, other two tools, like even people, I would think you kind of mentioned that of of having the people around you sort of helping to encourage you to go down a particular path as opposed to a different one. Yeah. and um
00:35:30
Speaker
sometimes the people you need the help from are the ones that ruffle your feathers the most. ah hu right So one thing that you can do in that regard is to assume good intention right from them and understand they're not doing it to you, they're being themselves and that they're different, they think differently. And when you're when you're interacting, having that that communication before it's a crisis, before emotions are involved in it and saying, listen, next week, we have this thing coming up and knowing myself and you've probably seen me do this. I'm going to have a little freak out for the two hours before it I'm going to want to fail. Don't let me do that. Here's what I need you to do. Give them the tools to support you.
00:36:16
Speaker
or you know after the event, I really want to be able to go out and celebrate with with everybody and I want you with me. You're like, I want to crash. so it's you know well what what can we How can we both have what we need? yeah so Maybe it's you go, I take 15 minutes to walk around the block quietly to decompress and I'll come in and meet you when I have a chance to to catch my breath. I'm not including you. I'm not ah not and and um not uninterested in in participating in the celebration. I just need to take a breath.
00:36:52
Speaker
Yeah, this is all ah this is exactly what you were talking about before, about taking those creative thinking skills and applying them in these other areas instead of feeling overwhelmed or at the mercy of circumstances or our emotions or whatever to identify, okay, here's the issue. How could I creatively come up with a solution to deal with it and so and and feel like you have the permission and the freedom to deal with it however you need like I need a day to just be quiet and not talk to anybody and I can calendar that and I can let people know or yeah I can make these arrangements ahead of time with people for plans that's that's so good just to be able to think about okay again like you said before all right I already have the skills I just need to apply them in this in this situation as well right and there are oodles of these skills that you already are good at
00:37:47
Speaker
right That can be applied elsewhere.
Creative Collaboration and Metaphors
00:37:51
Speaker
um Dan, I don't know what kind of music you play. But if you're a musician, you know that jazz musicians don't always have a set that they go with. And there is their own level of mastery. and they need to have in order to be good at their craft, but there's also a level of trust that they need to have in the other people. They also need to let go of ego and follow the music where it goes and also stop thinking about it so much and go into flow. And the best jazz performances were never planned. So
00:38:27
Speaker
That's like walking out into the world. you have You're interacting with other people that you haven't been able to plan with. And so how are you going to interact with the world? Are you going to have you know a dance or are you going to have a fight? And so those are is there different ways of... you know Analogy and metaphor are really powerful creative thinking tactics to take yourself out of your own emotional attachment to something. Think about it in a new perspective and suddenly the solution becomes evident. So there's another creative thinking tactic, metaphor, which aren't as long. Right. Yeah.
00:39:09
Speaker
I know that you were actually leading a workshop on this a couple of weeks ago and thinking about things that get in the way of feeling like we've accomplished or making that impact. I do think, I know I have struggled with this idea of potential, of living up to my potential. And then there have been some places there been times when I thought, oh, I'm going to be that person at the end of my life where after I die, people are going to say, oh, she had so much potential. I bet you didn't live up to it. But ah that sometimes and then other times I'm like, ah, there's this, you know, I want to get to this thing, but I have to, you know, I can see the ultimate of everything, all the different pieces, but I am only one person and I only have so much time.
Understanding Personal Influence and Impact
00:39:55
Speaker
um Talk to us a little bit about how potential gets, ah plays into all of this.
00:40:04
Speaker
I have a new, um, dreaded phrase, which is living up to your potential because, and I, this is not in any way a reflection on what you were just saying, but, uh, I've seen time and again through clients at all levels of success, all levels of age and sorority and expertise struggle with their potential. And it becomes a game of, your potential according to whom?
00:40:39
Speaker
Because when you have your whole life, people telling you who you're supposed to be, then that's outside of you. That's that's an outside expectation that doesn't speak to what your inner strengths, interests, desires, and values are. So you know just like redefining what success means, you have to sit back and think about what does potential mean. yeah potential according to whom? What if it were potential according to you? And you know if you're family, everybody ends up going into the family business.
00:41:17
Speaker
um Maybe by not choosing not to go into the family business, you're not living up to the potential. But you're not interested in that business. You want to do something else. You want to work with people in a different way. You want to impact the world. do you want to create beauty and that doesn't, you don't see that happening in what was predetermined. So are you really not living up to your potential or you're not living up to an external potential? Right. So that's like one of the big things, but then yes, I think many of us would like to have greater impact on the world in a positive way, but you are only one person. So, um,
00:42:02
Speaker
What can you do as an individual to leverage your influence? Because that's all you have. yeah um you may invent And then that needs to start at a modest place. What is your current level of influence? And that can grow over time. And consistency, being consistent is the thing that will help you grow your influence because people will know what to expect from you And then you become known as that. And that is what is shared by other people. Because you need these other people to share your influence. So as a coach, I have a lot of different interests. I told you my interests in science um battle my interests in creative arts. And with that goes hypersensitivity toward, let's say, the environment.
00:42:58
Speaker
Um, I can't cure the environment. i am they are these big yeah issues Um, well beyond controlling, you know, what I purchase, use and dispose of. Um, the other thing in my role, what I can do is work with people who are talented in their domain and help them be better at what they do, help them solve their obstacles more effectively, help them recognize how to stay true to what they need to, to not get distracted by these external forces. um And if I can help those people be better at what they do, then I'm contributing to that. right By myself, I'm not solving these problems. But you know oh boy, I'd love to work with the people who are trying to save the bees.
00:43:49
Speaker
right I'd love to work with the people who are trying to creatively and innovatively solve coral leaf die out. There's things I can contribute to their thought process and their state of mind that can make them better at what they do. And that's what I can do. So I'm also really clear about where my strengths are. And I get to be creative in how I use them and repurpose them and reframe them. I can't tell you how many different ways i have to talk about the work i do depending on the audience. Do you know how many people, if I say creativity, they shut down immediately because I'm not talking about them. When my whole point of talking about it is to say, no, no, but I am. I am talking about you.
00:44:39
Speaker
yeah I love the freedom that comes with the clarity around that, especially for people who do feel ah you know like ah a lot of our our audience are Christians and wanting to contribute and whether to contribute to the world in some way to to help the end. that feeling of things being so big, like you said, and and to be able to have the the clarity of, okay, these are my gifts, this is what I can do, and that idea, I love that, of being able to inform and help and encourage or impact one person, two person, three person, whatever my little audience is, and that is contributing in the way that I'm able to contribute.
00:45:23
Speaker
Um, I think it's really really helpful and powerful I think about um, mother. Teresa. I remember reading About her and she you know, she was very clear about what she was doing. She was helping individual people One person at a time whoever was in front of her that's what she was attending to and she frustrated so many people because she would either just not take a meeting or skip a meeting or not be interested in a conversation about you could make such a bigger difference if you started this institution, if you, you know, were part of this foundation, if you, you know, organized on a larger level, you would make such a bigger impact. And she chose consistently
00:46:11
Speaker
No, because then I wouldn't be doing the thing that I can do. And that was a really powerful illustration of I think exactly what you're talking about. Because I think it is really easy, it certainly is easy for me to get distracted by the opportunities that come along that sound good, sound like they're going to present more opportunities, sound like they would be more effective. But then I notice, oh, but I'm not doing that thing that I was that I'm like really skilled at that I really love to do anymore. We like to measure things. Yeah. We like to track things. We need metrics.
Coaching Opportunities and Resources
00:46:45
Speaker
But yeah, not everything can be measured.
00:46:49
Speaker
Thank you so much for this conversation, Veronica. I feel like it's chock full of really practical, helpful things to consider and think about. I know that you you work with clients. if If there's somebody who is looking for coaching, is that something that you are you have available? Or how how would somebody get in touch with you to to connect more? Yes, i do um I do have a little bit of capacity to take on some new clients right now. um And so if they would like to be in touch, they can connect with me on LinkedIn or through my website, which is goldfinchleadership dot.com.
00:47:27
Speaker
And I offer everybody who comes to me a complimentary call to figure out if what they need is what I can help with. I also have a an e-book that can be downloaded for free on midlife career transitions through creative intelligence. And it's a roadmap for doing some of these exercises that we've been talking about, like discovering your core values. identifying what it is that you want to be spending your time on for your own legacy. And what does does legacy mean? Sort of like, what is success? um And the different elements of a transition um and ah really pricing each one, including the in-between. So that's that's that's ah that's my gift to the world is to offer that.
00:48:18
Speaker
Thank you so much for this really wonderful conversation. It's been great talking. Thank you. You let me geek out on my favorite topics. I'm geeking out too, just talking to you. And there we go. There's the influence.
00:48:34
Speaker
Thanks for listening to Be Make Do, a Soul Makers podcast. If you want to go deeper, be sure to visit soulmakers dot.org and download our free Wise Heart at One study guide with questions for personal reflection or discussion with a group, plus word studies and more.