Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Delving into Star Wars THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK | 002
38 Plays29 days ago
Join Branwen and Seah as they deep dive into all things Star Wars! This season, join us on a rewatch of the OG Trilogy, Prequels, Sequels and maybe a cheeky spin off! Follow along as we fly off exploring all the wonders and geekery of a Galaxy Far, Far Away, chatting nostalgia, worlds, lore, music, story, behind the scenes, and much more with each other and some very special guests.
In our second episode we celebrate "The Empire Strikes Back", one of the most popular films of the Skywalker Saga. How will it ultimately rank for Seah and Branwen? Listen and find out!
Sisters of the Force is a weekly, UK-based, Star Wars podcast, produced with joy and love by Seah and Branwen.
Follow us on instagram @sistersoftheforcepod, bluesky @sistersoftheforce.bsky.social, https://www.youtube.com/@SistersoftheForce, or at www.facebook.com/sistersoftheforcepod.
Recommended
Transcript
Favorite Lines Discussion
00:00:16
Speaker
Hey, Bramwen. Yeah. What's your favourite line from The Empire Strikes Back? Do or do not, there is no try. Oh, very good. was going to do a Yoda voice, but I bailed. You decided not to, you bailed last second. Sia, what's your favourite line from the Empire Strikes Back?
00:00:33
Speaker
Are you ready? Yeah. I'm standing here in pieces and you're having delusions of grandeur. but I would never have thought of that line, but it's so genius.
00:00:47
Speaker
I can see him now hobbling on one leg as well. Cracks me up.
00:00:53
Speaker
Oh, I love 3Fio. More about him later.
Introduction to Sisters of the Force
00:00:57
Speaker
You're listening to Sisters of the Force. I am Bramwyn. And I'm Sia. And today we are here to delve into The Empire Strikes Back, episode five of the Skywalker saga.
00:01:09
Speaker
and du duon um You may have noticed we started the show a little bit different today. We're trying out something new. We're new podcast. We're figuring it out. Give us shout if you love or loathe our little intro. And we may or may not listen to you.
00:01:25
Speaker
I think we enjoy it and that's what matters. That is what it's all about. And that is what this podcast is all about. We just talk about the film, talk about different aspects of the film, the things we loved about it. And yeah.
00:01:37
Speaker
Laugh a lot, probably. So if you have you got any like specific memories attached to
Childhood Memories with The Empire Strikes Back
00:01:42
Speaker
Empire? Can you remember seeing it for the first time? Or like can you remember your childhood memories? No. Well, ah first time's difficult. I think I said this last time that I was just so young that I have yeah no idea. They all blend. The first three completely blend.
00:01:57
Speaker
But I think I also said last time that I have really strong memories of being... with a childminder and playing Star Wars games. And as I was watching The Empire Strikes Back today, because that's how I roll, at seven o'clock this morning.
00:02:15
Speaker
Any time is good time Star Wars. It was seven o'clock this morning with my coffee and my breakfast. So, ah Yeah, as I was watching it, I remembered that it triggered a memory of the specific bit that I would remember playing with my childminder is circling around the At-At-Walkers.
00:02:36
Speaker
and like role-playing that. With the toe cable. With the toe cables, yeah. Yeah. so That's a good memory. And that is like, I must have been three or four. Yeah.
00:02:48
Speaker
I was very small. Oh, I do have another memory attached to it. And this is a bit later on, moved to Wales. And it's being about, must have been about six or seven.
00:03:00
Speaker
and I remember being in my mum's bedroom and she was trying to brush my hair and and The Empire Strikes Back was on in the background and i i I ran away because I couldn't deal with the kiss scene. I couldn't do Oh, gosh. I couldn't handle it.
00:03:20
Speaker
And was like, no. Which kiss scene? The first one. The Luke and Leia one. No, no, no. The Han and Leia one in the whole, my hands are dirty thing. Yeah.
00:03:31
Speaker
I just, something about seven-year-old me just cringed and I couldn't i couldn't look at the screen. and i And mum picked up on it and she said, are you embarrassed about the kiss?
00:03:43
Speaker
I was like, nope. She went, yeah, you are. but It's a pretty smoochy scene, you know, for like a very young mind. It was definitely a no as far as I was concerned.
00:03:58
Speaker
Yeah, talking of kisses, I noticed, and I'm trying to remember where it was now, but there's and a second Lucan Leia kiss because everyone talks about the one in the recovery room after he's out the Bacta and he's yeah know looking all fresh as a daisy with some wounds.
00:04:13
Speaker
yeah And there's the big Leia one. I think it's towards the end and it may be when... I think it might be right at the end in that last little sequence when Lando is going to go off with Ruchui to go and find Han. and Luke and Leia are still on the cruiser, the the medical frigate.
00:04:31
Speaker
I think she kisses his cheek at that point. Maybe it was just a cheek kiss. It's a cheek kiss because then they stand and there's the kind of awkward family photo moment. Yeah, and the camera pulls out. He pulls out and you go, ooh, they're really short.
00:04:44
Speaker
and then yeah They look so tiny. Yeah. I was making notes as I was watching it the other day and I think I looked up and I was like, oh, and I thought I saw another lip kiss, but maybe maybe I'm wrong.
00:04:57
Speaker
I watched it this morning and I still couldn't tell you whether it was a lip kiss or not. Oh, I'll tell you when it is. It's when Luke is recovering on the Falcon. They've literally just dragged him in off the weather vane.
00:05:10
Speaker
And Leia puts him to bed and she kisses him in like the cot thing he's lying on. Okay. And he's looking really woeful. And then she rushes back to the cockpit.
00:05:21
Speaker
Okay. Yeah, I'm pretty sure. But this is all the days of not incest, potentially love triangle, isn't it?
Speculating on George Lucas' Original Plans
00:05:27
Speaker
This is the thing. um Yeah. As discussed in the last episode, we we're pretty sure...
00:05:33
Speaker
Lucas didn't have this in his mind. No. That they were going to be a brother and sister. But also there's the whole, like, at that point, Yoda seeds the whole, but there is another thing. Yeah. So.
00:05:46
Speaker
Which I love that, but that wasn't, that clearly wasn't going to be about Leia. That was Lucas keeping his options open, I feel. Okay. I think by that point they knew they were getting a third movie. um So they were just going to sow a little story seed and see where it took them. Yeah. i think. Yeah.
00:06:02
Speaker
I'm sure if we researched properly before doing this podcast, we would have found out what Lucas had in mind. ah Somewhere in the back of my mind, I remember reading that there was a bit of a plan, but then it changed. turned into something else.
00:06:16
Speaker
layer Yeah. Yeah. Okay. like Which I think is true of like a lot of the Star Wars Skywalker saga, like from the very early versions of A New Hope um and the different iterations things took and how it got spread across three films. And then, you know,
00:06:32
Speaker
like depending on the success of the first film there was all that sort of stuff involved in his pi planning and yeah so yeah going back before we move on to anything else going back to your um memory of the AT-ATs and by the way yeah AT-ATs or AT-ATs Oh, I've always said ATAT. Me too.
00:06:50
Speaker
Okay. I know the world of Star Wars is divided among the fans. Into ATAT and ATAT. Yeah. Well, the ATAT people are wrong. No, I'm joking. They definitely are. They've always been ATAT.
00:07:02
Speaker
But the trouble is, it falls apart when we start talking about the other ones, like the ATST. Yeah. Yeah. You can't say ATST. Yeah. You could. I just did. But like it doesn't roll off the tongue.
00:07:15
Speaker
No, no. I know what you mean. But Atat. Well, they're Atats. It's always been Atat, though. Yeah. Atat Walker. And again, what do they actually say that? No, nobody ever says any of these things. There's so many things that I just know what they are, but no one ever seems to say It's like, wait, how?
00:07:32
Speaker
How do I know that? Yeah. I mean, there's loads behind the scenes stuff. I remember as a kid... um we can talk about it a bit next week, I had Return the Jedi, like, making of book, which I've still got. beautiful book. And so in there, there'd be lots of information. And then yeah when West End Games um developed the role-playing game, which, again, I mentioned last week, and I definitely wanted to bring that up again this week, yeah because they started naming everything.
00:07:57
Speaker
I remembered it this time round because I remember the Snow Troopers setting up that medium repeating blaster in the Hoth base. Yeah. Or was it a heavy repeating blaster? I can't remember. But the make and model is listed in the role playing game, which, because as you know from playing role playing games, like everything is very detailed. yeah And so the people who developed the game ended up coming up with lots of names of like manufacturers of weapons and ships and droids and everything else.
00:08:26
Speaker
Yeah.
Influence of Star Wars Role-Playing Games
00:08:27
Speaker
Okay. And a lot of that stuff is still rippling into the Star Wars and cinematic universe, if you like. um Like things that pop up in the Mandoverse. Yeah. I've recognised things from the role-playing game.
00:08:40
Speaker
Okay. And I know for a fact that Dave Filoni and or Jon Favreau must have played that role-playing game. Yeah. Or at least read the source books and the rule books. Yeah. um because there are such specific things i can't think of any off the top my head which is terrible but i'll look some up if we get as far as the mando verse um we'll get that yeah and i think it's interesting lot i don't hear a lot of other like podcasters slash youtubers doing breakdowns stuff they don't seem to point to the role-playing game very much okay but it is ah massive massive influence on the star wars universe and a source of information yeah
00:09:18
Speaker
Which you might as well use it. You know, I'm sure that's what Dave Filoni and Jon Favreau are thinking is like, well, why invent something new? someone but We've got this amazing pool stuff. Someone's already done it. Yeah, yeah. There's already been like a generation of Star Wars role playing game players know that stuff. It's like yeah in my DNA yeah to know about Gatroc-like freighters or, you know, like all these other like specific characters.
00:09:40
Speaker
creatures, design names, things that never came up in the films or even the books. But then this is this is why I'm so confused because obviously yeah you were playing the games, you were immersed in
Debate on Pronunciation of AT-ATs
00:09:49
Speaker
it, but how do I know? yeah Because I wasn't. I was four. Yeah.
00:09:53
Speaker
don't guess people... Why is there? I guess just from people talking about Star Wars to each other and like yeah inadvertently sharing their knowledge. Yeah, it must have been. And but the models, the toys. The toys was another place. Oh, yeah. yeah That's a good point. Definitely. like Characters would get names because they had a figure, like the name would not be in the film at all. or yeah But then you buy the Star Wars figure and there we go. Suddenly they have a name. A lot of the novels as well, obviously, the novels that came out.
00:10:23
Speaker
But this is going into another topic. We're getting a bit away from Empire Strikes Back here. We'll probably end up doing some like general Star Wars chat episodes where we can talk about... like Where I can tell you which books of yours I've still got.
00:10:35
Speaker
ah really? I've had for about 12 years. oh my gosh. Yeah, that's a topic for another day. but This is where they've all gone. i mean, I've got two of them. They're on my shelf over there.
00:10:48
Speaker
I'll let you off. Yeah, going back to the um Atta and Toe Cable, my mum pointed out because she and dad watched um Empire Strikes Back with me and they both really enjoyed it.
00:10:58
Speaker
Mum commented how much more she enjoyed it this time than ever before. Interesting. I think because she's been soaking up the Mandoverse and we've rewatched yeah Rebels again and like... it all means so much more to her now. but Anyway, she pointed out that Return of the King, it Aragorn? Yeah, they shoot him. Somebody does... They do the same thing with the Oliphants, don't they? Yeah, and yeah he runs around on his horse yeah in between the legs. I can't remember who it is. yeah so It's either the Rhyrim or... or
00:11:30
Speaker
Because Legolas does the running up and and jumping on the head. the road Oh, he runs on top of him. But somebody else. That's another podcast series. yeah You didn't ask me to watch those ones. but There's definitely an Oliphant collapsing. There is. Tripped over. And it's almost shot for shot. Shot for shot, same thing. I'm sure it's Peter Jackson going, yeah, we love Empire.
00:11:49
Speaker
Yeah, we'll use that. Most definitely. I have i've vaguely got memories of seeing in the cinema. I remember my stomach dropping out. at the reveal of of Darth Vader and telling myself, it's not true, it's not true, almost at the same time as Luke was saying those exact lines. It's not true.
00:12:10
Speaker
It's impossible. That's very cute. And coming out of the cinema being like, nope no, no, no, no. But then also actually knowing it is true. Yeah. Because they pretty much tell you because Luke...
00:12:22
Speaker
says to himself, Ben, why didn't you tell me? yeah And it's like, he knows. He knows. It's true. So you kind of knew it was. There's another kind of classic line in the end there where he's like, he Darth Vader says to Luke, search your feelings. You know it to be true. and yeah He does.
00:12:40
Speaker
right i love the search your feelings. Search your feelings. Maybe it was a whole like trying trying to make trying to make men less stoic. Search your feelings. Yeah. I mean, the Force is about letting go of all that stuff. Yeah. yeah And it's not the way of the warrior. like war no What is it?
00:12:58
Speaker
War not makes one great, is Yoda's line, something like that. yeah Yeah. Which is beautiful. It's like feminist mantra. say Yeah. Jedi are – it's interesting that we didn't really see any female Jedi until – No. suppose didn't see any Jedi. We didn't see women until – Yeah, true. From Leia. I was looking at the Imperials, like on the bridge of the Star Destroyer, and it's just war, man.
00:13:24
Speaker
yeah so well done disney for starters i mean to be honest lucas managed to like bring a few in for the prequels and um he and filoni i don't know which one actually came up with ahsoka but ahsoka has become one of the key yeah characters in the entire star wars universe so yeah that was either feloni or lucas or them combined yeah Yeah. Did anything stand up to you? What did you feel about the film watching it this time? Did did you still love it?
00:13:51
Speaker
did make you feel? I did love it. I loved it. There was a lot of... I laughed quite a lot this morning, actually. There was a lot of laughter. Many of my notes say banter. Banter. Han and Chewie banter. Han and Leia banter. More droid banter.
00:14:06
Speaker
It's just like comedy dialogue. In fact, one of my notes is just the banter in capitals with two exclamation marks. Yes.
00:14:15
Speaker
Incredible. I think that's the um laugh it up, first of all. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. don't know where you get your delusions, laser brain. Yeah. So much banter. So much banter.
00:14:26
Speaker
And Yoda as well, actually. Yoda is legit the most annoying character. so ah And so like, it's just because like thinking about the prequels recently as well, I've just been like, this is a personality shift and a half.
00:14:41
Speaker
ah So i I wrote down in my notes, like both Obi-Wan and Yoda went wild living as hermits.
00:14:50
Speaker
What have they turned into? It just, I don't know, out there doing bizarre hippie things and they've both lost their minds. Kenobi's showed up in like his facial hair and his skin and how he aged dramatically. yo hates Yoda looks the same. In fact, he might even look a bit younger as he gets older.
00:15:09
Speaker
He does look a bit younger. And he certainly behaves a bit younger. He's like a kid. yeah I mean, the whole he's like a kid like fake, I'm not a Jedi, you know, I'm not the person you're evil thing. and just playing games with R2 and like yeah being really annoying I know it's the Frank O's thing but as soon as he started speaking I was like oh it's Miss Piggy adjacent this is very like I wrote Jan Posse there so yeah yeah I know exactly. we're We're Miss Piggy now. Great. It is The Muppets. Have you watched the Muppet Show episode with Mark Hamelin? No. I don't think I have. 1979.
00:15:45
Speaker
If you go on Disney+, plus like, all the Muppet shows from the 70s are there. They're on there. Excellent. And aside from anything else, they're worth a watch. There's four seasons of it. It's so good. Like, it is held up really well. Like,
00:15:56
Speaker
The comedy is really still really funny. It's some brilliant one-liners. yeah The character development of the Muppets, like Miss Piggy as a character, like her neuroses about everything.
00:16:09
Speaker
yeah Like her lack of self-esteem making her be super big personality and how she'll do everything anything to get Kermit. She'll literally, but then pretend not to be interested. yeah Anyway, there's an episode with, I think Mark Hamill and Anthony Daniels, I think is there possibly. Excellent. definitely Mark Hamill is playing Luke Skywalker the whole episode. Nice.
00:16:35
Speaker
So good. ah like it I loved him. I i like puppet Yoda. yeah I think there's something really, really sweet about him. Yeah. Yeah. i mean, his shift from like comedy, annoying, like banter character yeah to the scene where he lifts the X-wing out, which is like goosebumps. And the score in that bit when the thing comes out and the strings are like, me and we get Yoda's theme for the first time properly. And it's just like, yeah.
00:17:04
Speaker
And then he delivers those epic lines um afterwards. And like all when he's actually teaching Luke, oh, the stuff that he comes out with is just beautiful. like Yeah, yeah.
00:17:15
Speaker
I wrote down a lot of those lines actually. Yeah. I also wrote that Luke's a brat. Yeah. He is. He's very obnoxious. He's just our whole time. i mean, we do see... i thought To be fair, it were we're very soon after star Wars, A New Hope. I
Critique of Luke Skywalker's Character
00:17:31
Speaker
don't think... yeah Maybe two years.
00:17:33
Speaker
Okay. And he's he's had no more training. Yeah. You know, he he just got a very little amount of training from Ben. Yeah. um and And before that, he was a bratty farm boy, you know? was a bratty farm boy, yeah.
00:17:45
Speaker
There was something particularly bratty about him in this one. I was like, oh, God. Yeah, yeah. Maybe if I was Yoda, I would also act like that towards him just because he's such a brat. think so. i mean, I was very annoyed by Luke bailing.
00:17:59
Speaker
Like, I think he had yeah Yoda and Obi-Wan literally telling him, you must not go. Don't go. Not like, oh, we're not sure if you should go, Luke. You must not go. You must not go. Yeah. That was very teenager-y.
00:18:13
Speaker
I'm going to do what I want. Yeah. but I mean, is as a middle episode, I think it's cool that that did happen because it meant yeah when we see him in Return the Jedi, as we will next week, he is so different and it's so cool.
00:18:26
Speaker
And I remember like, we'll talk about that again next week, like seeing him appear in this new persona. But yeah, the dialogue throughout this whole film, um I wrote down Lee Brackett and Lawrence Kasdan. I remember Lawrence Kasdan because I think he helped JJ with Force Awakens and possibly Rise Skywalker as well.
00:18:46
Speaker
So he's a longtime Star Wars writer. Yeah. um It's story by George Lucas. Lucas has got like the whole big picture in his mind and he's telling yeah the story of like what happens and where do they go and all of that. But Lee Brackett and Lawrence Kasdan, I can't remember Lee Brackett. I've no idea who that is. But they wrote the screenplay. So they're responsible for the brilliant That kind of dialogue. Yeah.
00:19:09
Speaker
yeah yeah Compared to episode four. Snappy. Watching A New Hope last week and then watching this is like we're in a whole other league. Yeah. dialogue wise just jumping from banter to really profound moments constantly yeah and then switching back again it was like the code switching was just wild all over the place definitely Yeah, I mean, we need to talk about Hannah Leia light carbon freezing
The Iconic "I Love You" Exchange
00:19:35
Speaker
moment. I mean, their dialogue and like, I love you, I know. classic, just so classic, which allegedly is Harrison Ford. Allegedly. I don't know for death. We don't know the legitimacy of that. and We might have to fact check that. Yeah, yeah.
00:19:51
Speaker
I mean, I've heard that many times. I'm pretty sure it's probably as true as it gets. Yeah, but I actually told someone that lemons weren't real earlier because I believed a lie on the internet, so. this nice watchinging is like That's not true, by the way.
00:20:05
Speaker
And I think we have to give credit to Irving Kirshner. The directing as well. Irving Kirshner smashed it That scene, i mean, the score is incredible. As always, John Williams doesn't need revokes. on it. yeah But as the the carbon freeze thing goes downwards and Han starts to disappear through the floor, the way they show him and Leia's locked eye contact, like they do not break eye contact until the fog of the carbon freeze obscures Han.
00:20:35
Speaker
They're absolutely locked. It's just incredible. And like the cutting between those things. And we see a bit Chewbacca and Threepio. But like... they managed to get all of those beats yeah in the visual storytelling art, which is just awesome.
00:20:50
Speaker
It's beautiful. It is. Closely followed by, I'm your father. Like, what? What a scene. What is happening? I don't think there has ever been a more epic scene in cinema.
00:21:05
Speaker
than that I can't think it like of Vader fighting Luke out onto that thing and Luke's like loses his hand yeah and he's clinging for dear life you know there's no way out of this and then Vader drops that bomb yeah that is some serious epic cinematic oh just gets you every time and there's no safety rails again yeah no they don't need them in Star Wars ah No safety rails, that's what I wrote down for that bit. Yeah.
00:21:38
Speaker
I wrote down numerous things for that bit, but safety rails, come on guys. I wanted to talk about the lightsaber battle because last week we had the slightly little twirl of Obi-Wan in the lightsaber battle. Yeah.
00:21:55
Speaker
I loved it. But yeah, we've they've upped their lightsaber game, yeah for sure. um i I did write down, doesn't look like Vader can move that fast in his armour. It's true, but he's he's sort of he's very like economic with what he does.
00:22:11
Speaker
He doesn't need to, he never has. In all of the other iterations of Vader that we've had in the meantime, he never leaps around. doesn't move that much, no. He's got one big leap.
00:22:22
Speaker
Yeah. Where he kind of does a little fly down. Yeah, he jumps down the stairs, doesn't he? Yeah. Yeah. But he just doesn't need to. I think some of it is just his intimidation technique. Yeah. is It's that kind of, I can do this all day yeah vibe, which...
00:22:35
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. It definitely works. I love as well that on the other side of the lightsaber jewel that Luke... It's a lot of movement. He does, and he looks as though he's only just learned it. Yeah. Which is really cool. He's like really precise about what he does. Yeah. um And when he uses the force to to pick up his lightsaber when he's dropped it, and he uses the force to grab it back again, and it's all very like, ding, ding, ding, this is how you do these things. Yeah. Even when he jumps up, but I love that when he jumps out of the...
00:23:03
Speaker
jumps out the thing out of the carbon freeze and he's cleaning out the thing and then he does or he climbs up a cable or a rope yeah and then he does this weird little backflip thing and my note there was i can do that i need to see that next time was like i could definitely climb a rope like that and i could probably do that little backwards thing as well because it's just the skin the cat i do I do aerial stuff. Next time you do aerial, I demand a video.
00:23:27
Speaker
but I do that. Okay. that's a That's extra content. and and to Check out our socials for he close try my Jedi tricks.
00:23:42
Speaker
He climbs up the wire, he does his little thing and Vader goes, impressive.
00:23:49
Speaker
It's quite impressive. It's quite impressive. So so technically then, Vader would find you impressive. Well, there we go. That's quite cool. ah He also has a little humblebrag. Before he tells him that he's impressive, he goes, ah, this is all too easy.
00:24:05
Speaker
Meanwhile, r too yeah artto pretty much saves everybody else single-handedly. Yeah. I mean, Lando, to be fair, despite being a bit of a treacherous, you know, what about? yeah um He obviously instigates the the kind of revolt within his soldiers on Cloud City.
00:24:24
Speaker
I loved that bit. Yeah, me too. Yeah, it's so slick. And they're like, what? It is slick. It's Lando just being like, yeah, we want more Lando.
00:24:36
Speaker
There is talk of a Lando film or a Lando series with Don Glover playing Lando who played him in Solo. Nice. And yeah I am all over that. I want more capes. yeah I'm here that. More like slick manoeuvring.
00:24:50
Speaker
Totally. ah but But really it is R2. Although I noticed that R2, I think we talked about this last week, R2 does plug into the wrong outlet yeah and electrocutes himself. We did talk about this, but we talked about it off air. Yeah. Okay, cool. Well, now we're talking about it on air. Now we can talk about it on air. Yeah.
00:25:07
Speaker
ah So, yeah, R2 is instructed by 3PO to get in touch with the Cloud City information network, yeah like the internet, effectively, yeah yeah and then gets zapped by electricity. And, yeah, it turns out you plugged into the wrong socket.
00:25:23
Speaker
um But he does find out at that point about the Millennium Falcon's hyperdrive. Yeah, which leads to one of my other favourite lines. yeah.
00:25:34
Speaker
which was ah ah too you know better than to trust a strange computer. He's like, no, he's actually helping you escape here. Let him...
00:25:46
Speaker
Let him do it. him do it. Because at the same time as he's talking to the computer, he's opening the door for them to get onto platform, which they wouldn't have been able to if it wasn't him. And then he's in the Falcon and it's not my fault, which I love the echo of Han earlier in the film.
00:26:01
Speaker
It's not my fault. um So Lando having the same, it's not my fault reaction because they're both scoundrels. Yeah. and And then R2, that shot of R2 with his appendage inside the Millennium Vulcan sort of like wiring. Oh, yeah. And he turns something and like a bright white light comes on and you get the sound effect of the hybrid booting up.
00:26:24
Speaker
It's so good. And then you cut to the cockpit and see the stars you know streaking into hyperspace. But like you know they're going from the sound design and the lighting inside the thing. So good. um i also I really want to talk about the Falcon because yeah at this point, the Falcon is a wreck. Yes. Like all through the first sequence on in Echo Base and like Han and Shuri are trying to fix it. Like the snow troopers are in the base. yeah Everybody else is evacuated and Han and Shuri are still on top of the falcon.
00:26:56
Speaker
No, this one goes here, that one goes there. Like explosions, it's all... And then not being able to go to hyperspace. And they get eaten by the worm. They go through the asteroid field. that's just this it when he's trying to fix it and he's down in the um he's down in like the inner workings of the Vulcan yeah and they hit the first asteroid and a toolbox falls on his head yeah and he screams.
00:27:21
Speaker
Around that time, I can't remember exactly where it is, he's he's calling out to Chewbacca and he says, alluvial dampers? Yeah. And I want it noted in this podcast. Okay. in about 1998, maybe 1997, I had many pseudonyms for my music work in London.
00:27:40
Speaker
but But one of them, i knew and there is a 12-inch that I've got somewhere of a drum and bass record that says engineered by the alluvial damper. Excellent. I don't think it's on of my discogs or anything like that because it's very, very niche, but it is out there somewhere. i think I've got few of it.
00:27:57
Speaker
You've got to go and it. That's an Easter egg. People can go and find it. Yeah. If you can find a record of the alluvial damper. Go and find it. I think I've Googled it since and somebody else has used it as well in in a pop. Oh, controversial. Yeah. In music context, we have another alluvial damper. Stealing my idea.
00:28:15
Speaker
So funny. There was something else about the Falcon. I loved that 3PO has to talk to the Falcon. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's when they're in. They communicate with each other. Yeah. When they're in the space slug, I think it is.
00:28:29
Speaker
Yeah. and um And they're trying to. Because they're missing R2 at that point. R2's gone off with Luke, hasn't he? yeah So they're like, you need to talk to it. Yeah, yeah. I think 3-3's offering to shut down and Han's like, no, you need to talk to the Falcon. need to talk to it, yeah. To find out what's wrong with the hyperdrive, which he never gets around to doing because Minox.
00:28:48
Speaker
yeah Have you ever seen my 15-second snippet of Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back? Yes, I have, actually. um it was for that There was a project in the early days of the internet called Star Wars Uncut.
00:29:02
Speaker
yeah And it was a fan made film by somebody in West Coast of the US, I think. And they farmed out the film. and Initially, they did A New Hope. I didn't know about it at that point.
00:29:13
Speaker
but they farm out the entire movie in 15 second chunks and you go onto the website and you could pick which 15 seconds you do and you can then download it and then you can remake that 15 seconds in any way you want and so we took over the attic theater in Newcastle on Saturday and my dad dressed up in um what was a kind of pantomime bear costume and Erin did her hair in the braids and put a white puffer and we roped lovely
Creating for Star Wars Uncut
00:29:45
Speaker
Silas. We put a jacket on and got a fake blaster and played hand.
00:29:50
Speaker
and you' built with a ram And we and we had the fog machine and they just did that sequence where nice the ground sure feels strange. Yeah, yeah. You feel like rock.
00:30:02
Speaker
There's not enough moisture in this. from Cruise or whatever it is. I can't remember the dialogue, but they just did those bits. My dad is so proud of the Chewbacca roar that he did as they came down the ramp.
00:30:14
Speaker
And every time you watch Empire now, he does the roar.
00:30:19
Speaker
I love that. It was so fun. In the end of the final Empire Uncut version that they released, multiple people had done all of the little 15 second chunks. yeah yeah So they cut even those 15 seconds were cut into smaller bits. Even shorter. So I think we only ended up with about four seconds in the actual film. Wow. Which is a shame because our bit wrong.
00:30:41
Speaker
I think we went about it in like trying to replicate it as accurately as possible. Almost exactly. I think I put the score in the background. the sound design of the masks and everything. Excellent.
00:30:52
Speaker
And then the other people that did our 15 seconds were just like on a beach somewhere. Okay. Like with no costumes or anything. No context. It was nothing like the film, which has That's just, yeah. Maybe they were being more creative.
00:31:07
Speaker
but I thought we were very creative. Yeah. You were going true to life. Yeah. It was super fun to do, though. Like, it it really made you appreciate the cinematography of Star Wars, you know.
00:31:19
Speaker
yeah what have you got? What have I got? um So, one of my notes was, Vader seems to have like absolutely no... He just kills off his commanders willy-nilly. He's merciless. it's But you're going to run out of people to work for you soon, dude. what What is happening? He's forever drafting new victims. yeah And then they all just like... He just murders people.
00:31:48
Speaker
And then they all just kind of... go right and then they just carry on the comedy i mean it's dark comedy really when you think about it yeah but like i mean it's played for comedy particularly the one which he does via video script link yeah he's zooming with you know admiral ozzel and captain piet and just murders them ozzel's just quietly dying in the back of the zoom feed yeah and then suddenly piet's an admiral yeah
00:32:15
Speaker
Oh, okay. Carry on. yeah ah So I had that as a note. And then shortly after, between that and arriving at Cloud City, i was... ah Timelines, I'm confused, was the note. Yeah. Like, this is baffling me. How long is Luke in with Yoda? Okay, I think I've solved it. Okay. I've been listening to lots of people talk about this on different podcasts. and like It is an issue that people... Because I think because people hold The Empire Strikes Back up as the best Star Wars film in inverted commas. It is commonly, among the fandom, a favourite.
00:32:51
Speaker
Okay. um Which I can see why. like Some of the stuff we've been talking about, the dialogue and the story is great. The... bombshell at the end you know it is a great movie yeah i think the storytelling around that middle section is a bit iffy yeah but what i have figured out is that when they escape from the space lug and they have another little run-in with the star destroyer and then they cling on yeah this is all like you know not long after they've left hoth um but at that point they when they detach
00:33:23
Speaker
Or they figure out what's what's their best move. And there's that lush scene where apparently Carrie Fisher had a terrible hangover. Because I think there was an awards ceremony or something the night before. they were shooting the scene where um she's like, where are we? Oh, the Inuit system, there's not much there. That bit.
00:33:38
Speaker
yeah And yeah Han talks about Lando. He's saying, Bespin's not far. I think we can make it. yeah They don't have hyperdrive at this point. right like To travel interstellar without hyperdrive,
00:33:51
Speaker
yeah Even if it's not far, it's going to be it could be weeks.
Timeline Confusion in Empire Strikes Back
00:33:55
Speaker
yeah but They're just sublight speeding from the Inuit sector or the Inuit system Bespin.
00:34:02
Speaker
I don't know how far it is in light years, going to be light years. And if you can't do it at the speed of light, it's going to take you a lot longer. um And Boba Fett follows them, but he will have figured out, because that's how Vader and that get there first. Get there first, yeah.
00:34:16
Speaker
I think that sometime, probably weeks, passes while they're travelling to Bespin. And I want to TV series of how Han and Leia and Threepier and Chewbacca coped for weeks with each of only a Dejeric game and not a lot of escape from each other as they limped to Bespin.
00:34:36
Speaker
um yeah So that I think that was going on while Luke was getting maybe a couple of weeks of training. I mean, it could be any amount of time. I don't like to think of Hannah and Leia on that ship for much longer than a couple of weeks. so They would have murdered each other. They would have done. They'd be very smelly by the time they got to... I think that's probably why they changed pretty quickly when they get to college.
00:34:59
Speaker
So yeah, I think that's how the timelines work because it has always bothered me as well that yeah Luke... you know It feels like only moments from Han and Leia blasting out of Echo Base to suddenly they're on Bespin. It feels like it's real time, yeah um but it's clearly not because they've got those hyperdrive.
00:35:20
Speaker
I feel like a single line would have solved that. if When he says it's pretty far, but I think we could make it, even at light speed, it might take us a few weeks.
00:35:32
Speaker
justs Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just a tiny bit of context. that That's my headcanon of how that all works, Henry. Okay, that makes sense. I'll go with that.
00:35:45
Speaker
I'll go with that because otherwise then Luke would have been... You had half a day. Yeah. For an afternoon. Do you think I'm a Jedi yet? Am I ready to face Vader yet? No.
00:35:57
Speaker
ah us no Just no, is the answer. he'd had a few weeks, there's no way he's ready yeah to do what he did, which is why he is a bit rubbish when he's fighting Vader. I mean, he does okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:36:11
Speaker
And then my next note, my next note was, question, what the actual hell is up with the weird torture chair? Oh my God, yeah. I actually really thought about the torture. In fact, I made a note about the torture.
00:36:25
Speaker
i not i think Chewbacca's torture is... yeah He's playing on a dog whistle because you know the idea is that Chewie's Han's pet dog. That was the original idea. He obviously isn't a dog because he clearly has sentience. But um the original plot was for Chewie to be a dog.
00:36:44
Speaker
ah and So the high-pitched siren is like the sonic torture, which is quite nasty. yeah But yeah, the thing that yeah Han is in, I think it's heat.
00:36:55
Speaker
And shock, like electric shocks as well. He seems to be getting like jolted. He seems to be a bit shocked. It just looks grim. It's horrible. When they first try and put him towards it, and I just saw it and went, oh, that's nasty.
00:37:10
Speaker
And in a similar way to in A New Hope, they had that whole droid that comes towards Leia with the syringe on it. I was like, this is horrible. I'll tell you what, if you're interested, if you're interested in the torture droids, there's a trilogy of books that have come out over the last decade or so called The Alphabet Squadron, which is set after Return of the Jedi. yeah um They're really good. They're very serious and they're about pilots.
00:37:36
Speaker
um And one of the pilots is a... I don't think this is too much of a spoiler. She's like ah a defecting Imperial. Okay.
00:37:47
Speaker
And she has, because this is after Return the Jedi, so the Empire is in retreat. Yeah. and the And the New Republic is forming. And the New Republic have kind of like repurposed torture droids to be therapy droids. Okay. So she's got this she's got this like one of those droids as her therapy. And and the book, like do you have little therapy sessions with her in the book.
00:38:10
Speaker
Yeah. And in the audiobook, which is how I consume books these days, yeah I think it's Mark, no, it's Jonathan Davis reading it. And he does the voice of the droid really well. And it's got like droid effect on it um in the sound design and stuff. And it is quite disturbing because you're constantly feeling like this is the worst kind of repurposing of a piece of machinery I can imagine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Torture to therapy. To therapy. It's pretty wild.
00:38:39
Speaker
But yeah, and I guess like Star Wars is kind of my first introduction to torture. Like I don't think I knew what torture was because I've come from very privileged background, you know, living in Great Britain in the 70s or whatever. Like why would I know about torture?
00:38:53
Speaker
But I learned about it through
Torture Depictions in Star Wars
00:38:55
Speaker
Wars. Yeah, I think I did as well. Yeah. there's there's I mentioned last week the radio drama um yeah of A New Hope. There's almost an entire episode which is Vader torturing Leia.
00:39:08
Speaker
Oh my gosh. It's horrific. It's like 20 minutes of being drugged and like losing her coherence.
00:39:19
Speaker
And he's pushing her and pushing her and pushing her for the information. And she's not good. And she's crying. It's really terrifying. That's horrific. Yeah. Don't listen to the audio drama, folks. Right. Or if you do, skip the episode.
00:39:32
Speaker
Skip that bit. Skip that episode. I wouldn't be able to cope with that. What I think is, again, brilliant writing is hands-lying, they never even asked me any questions.
00:39:45
Speaker
Yeah. It's really good at giving us a real sense of what the Empire is. and right like yeah In case we didn't get it from A New Hope, you know because we don't spend a lot of time with the Empire. I mean, yes, they build an entire planet, but that's quite an abstract thing you to wrap your head around. you know It's terrible, but like you just can't imagine it. Whereas yeah the stuff that we see in Empire is pretty terrifying. that The scene where Lando takes them to the dining room and the doors open and Vader is in their black
00:40:18
Speaker
in the midst of a white completely white room and Boba Fett comes in behind him yeah and stands there. I think that's pretty much where Boba Fett got his like um reputation among the fans yeah for being a badass. Just yeah the way he walks in with his like sawn-off blaster or whatever it is he carries yeah and stands behind Vader.
00:40:38
Speaker
It's terrifying. Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty dark. I mean, it's a dark movie. It is dark, yeah. I'm sure this is why they threw all that kind of comedy in there. but like Yeah, because it's so dark. We need a bit of relief.
00:40:53
Speaker
It's only been a few months, and I'm 52 years old, um yeah since I've known that why Lobot is called Lobot.
00:41:05
Speaker
So Lobot is Lando's aide, the bald guy. Oh, yeah. The wraparound cybernetic thing. Yeah. It's from like lobotomy. Lobotomy, yeah. Lobot.
00:41:16
Speaker
I think because it's a bit like robot. Yeah, yeah. As a kid, I probably likened that word to robot rather than... robot more than... Yeah. Lobotomy. More than lobotomy. As you would.
00:41:29
Speaker
Yeah. As a seven-year-old kid. Yeah. I think, yeah, I think that's quite a clever name, actually, because it's both, isn't it? It's Robot and Lobot.
00:41:40
Speaker
Lobot. Nice. We need more cyborgs. More cyborgs. In Star Wars. There are, in ah The Book of Boba Fett, we see Fennec Shand's character.
00:41:53
Speaker
um Sorry, I don't want to spoil this because you Yeah, there's there's some stuff with some but bionic implants, basically. There's a whole scene of it going on on Tatooine. That isn't a spoiler. Okay. like Cybernetic implants. The kids are all getting cybernetic implants. Nice. nice so of tattoo It's like a tattoo parlor.
00:42:14
Speaker
Yeah. Nice. That's our first kind of glimpse of cybernetic Star Wars, which is kind of cool. Excellent. We don't really know what it what he does. We see him. know He kind of wakes up at one point, doesn't he? Like Lando kind of activates him. Yeah.
00:42:31
Speaker
I think he's in a comic. There's a comic set after Return the Jedi where Lando goes back to Cloud City. Okay. And I think he finds Lobot there. Meet him again. Yeah. it could Actually, it could also be in...
00:42:45
Speaker
Another brilliant trilogy of books set after Return the Jedi. um In fact, my favourite Star Wars books of all time is the Aftermath trilogy, which I'm sure I'm going to refer to repeatedly in this podcast. More than once.
00:42:57
Speaker
um And if you get chance to like listen to them or read them, yeah it's a trilogy. So it's three fairly chunky novels. okay um They pick up very soon after Return the Jedi.
00:43:09
Speaker
And it's a great story. It's like a separate story of a bit like Rebels, like a gang of like misfits. There's a pilot and her son and a bounty hunter.
00:43:22
Speaker
and a droid and um I can't remember who the other character is. Anyway, oh, yeah an Imperial defector who's a bit of a drinker yeah and also gay.
00:43:35
Speaker
you would be. He's awesome. He's possibly my favourite Star Wars character of all time. Okay. Anyway, there's in that not that series of novels about those characters, and it's a brilliant trilogy of stories. Han and Chewie are in it for a bit.
00:43:48
Speaker
um there are interludes in all three books, little interlude chapters that just are a little vignette of what's going on in the galaxy. So there's a few that they link to each other as well. So there's like a few following reporter who works for like the Holonet and she's going to different places and with her cameraman.
00:44:09
Speaker
So we're seeing her view of what's going on, you know, in the aftermath. And then we see a non-binary person alien pirate nice and their their ship and their crew ah and they do some stuff which is really cool in the outer rim um there's various ones and I think in that book or one of those books there's one about Lando back on Cloud City trying to find something i can't remember there's loads of little stories and again those stories are like feeding into the TV shows and stuff which is really cool
00:44:45
Speaker
Go read the Aftermath trilogy, people. If you've not read it, go read the Aftermath trilogy. It's so good. I had one question about um drits droids feeling pain.
00:45:00
Speaker
Yeah. This kind of leads on from, because there's a few moments where Threepio bashes his head and goes, ouch. you're like, hang on a minute.
00:45:12
Speaker
You're a droid. but I think the art artificial intelligence, we can talk more about this next week with the droid torturing Jarvis Palace. Oh God, there's more torture. Yeah. But it's only forgot about that. It's only droids. There's some interesting stuff. There's another interesting moment with 3PO, which again is repeated in Return the Jedi, where somebody puts their hand over his mouth. In this episode, it's... Yeah, and he stops talking. Yeah, he shuts up one hand.
00:45:37
Speaker
And Leia does it to him in Return the Jedi as well. And I think it's to do with their like anthropomorphic programming, particularly protocol droids, that they are supposed to you know emulate...
00:45:51
Speaker
humans I was listening to the Resistance broadcast the other day, which is another podcast which I like. And they were talking about the idea of, are we ever going to see like realistic looking androids in Star Wars?
00:46:03
Speaker
The equivalent of Data in Star Trek, you know yeah who is dressed to look like a human. Because 3PO, he's protocol droid. He's made in the form of a humanoid yeah so that he's maybe more accessible to species of alien and humans that are all that sort of shape.
Droids and AI in Star Wars Universe
00:46:20
Speaker
yeah But he's metal still. metal yeah We're not trying to emulate steel. looks like a droid. But he does evidently have programming, behavioural programming to make him feel more like a person.
00:46:32
Speaker
Yeah. but That's kind of how i interpret those things. Yeah, that makes sense. Because I was just like, hang on a minute, you're a droid and what's going on? that Yeah, his his response to the to being blown up.
00:46:47
Speaker
Yeah. and And I love the fact that when Chewbacca reinitializes him, he picks up his dialogue yeah from where he last was. From where he would have left off, yeah. So like there's a blip in his memory because he was yeah like unconscious. Because he was blasted off. then he just switched off because, i mean, he obviously doesn't have to have all his limbs attached to be conscious because he can talk with just his head on the body. It's all very interesting. And that's the other bit of the um of the whole carbon freezing scene.
00:47:17
Speaker
We've got kind of this really intense moment going on and then you've also got Threepio on Chewbacca's back going, turn around, I can't see. Yeah, yeah and just like scientifically, oh they've encased him in carbonite. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just interesting.
00:47:32
Speaker
yeah love He's so good. He's fast becoming my favourite character. three period Yeah, he is great. he is I mean I think you'll maybe go off him again when we watch the prequels. Yeah, I will. But that's not the point. For these ones, I like him. I think we need to just track humanising...
00:47:54
Speaker
or behavioral programming in droids and see if we can spot in other droids. I'd like to see if it's in astromechs at any point, yeah like R2. um I was watching an episode of the Bad Batch yesterday and and There was a scene where a protocol droid led three astromech droids out to help the Bad Batch. And the way they're behaving is very sentient-like.
00:48:20
Speaker
I need to watch it again to like figure out what it is
Understanding Droid Language
00:48:23
Speaker
about. The way they're moving, all the sounds. Well, R2's very human. He became more human in this film. like Yeah, in the way he speaks. When he's drowning in and he gets eaten by the like the noises he makes when he falls off the X-Wing and Luke's telling him off.
00:48:40
Speaker
And he's just like, oh he's like really so sorry for himself. And then he gets spat out and he he kind of vomits when Luke's cleaning him up. like a little white Luke finishes cleaning him and he's jadbering on about. He doesn't know where he is.
00:48:53
Speaker
And then artie just throws up. That was another note I had was Luke seems to be able to understand artu in a way that other humans can't. Okay, this is another this is another thing across the Star Wars universe.
00:49:06
Speaker
yeah I noticed when he's in the X-Wing, he is reading, like the text is coming up, subtitles is coming on the screen. But I think he can kind of understand binary. When we get into Rebels, which we will somehow, we're going have to yeah break Rebels down at some point.
00:49:25
Speaker
The droid in Rebels is called Chopper, who I mentioned last week. He's my favorite. Yes, he did. He's probably going to get a token mention in every episode. He has a different way of speaking. It's still, in quotes, binary.
00:49:40
Speaker
Yeah. um But he's voiced by Dave Filoni, and it's a lot closer to actual voice. Like you can almost hear the words. Right. It's got a kind of ring modulatory merged with a synth vocodery. I don't know what effect they do.
00:49:55
Speaker
um Similar to how all of the droids, because all the droids speak yeah because they've all got human voices merged in with them, I think. yeah Or at least all the main ones. They talk about that in Pod of Rebellion, the Rebels podcast, where Ezra from Rebels clearly understands Chopper.
00:50:14
Speaker
Right. and some of the rest of the crew do some of the time. Yeah. I think it's like if you spend a lot of time with a pet, you get to know. You start to understand them. Yeah. I suppose because in the prequels, Anakin can understand him as well, can't yeah Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think the idea is you can learn.
00:50:35
Speaker
binary or droid binary yeah the same way as you can understand wookie or um you know any alien language it's just learning when it's a very abstract language like binary or like wookie because wookie is quite a different kind of language um you can't like follow obvious grammar like you know vocalizations that are similar to ones we know already um But yeah, there's definitely a way of learning about astromechs and the way they speak. And although in the film world of Star Wars and the TV world of Star Wars, all astromechs have their own slant on binary.
00:51:16
Speaker
like like Chopper doesn't sound like R2 R5D4 who we saw in A New Hope he warbles in a different way BB8 has got a completely different style of thing but it's all binary it's all just like versions of speaking droid speak interesting yeah that is kind of cool um we definitely should watch that as we go on as for that as well track things we need to make a note of what we need to track that's a good point but So far it's all to do a droids. It's all droid stuff so far.
00:51:46
Speaker
And lightsaber battles. And lightsaber battles. Yeah. Okay. Make a note. I'm tracking lightsaber battles. Did you have any like favorite musical moments or sound moments?
00:52:01
Speaker
Yes, I did. I wrote this down. um There is an incredible piece of sound design that I don't know i don't know if you will There's an incredible piece of sound design and it's not the piece of sound design that you'd expect.
00:52:17
Speaker
We get a shot of Vader from the back yeah before his helmet goes on. And there is an incredible thunk as his helmet goes on. And I was like, I haven't heard that before.
00:52:30
Speaker
And I don't think it comes back, but it's a very specific thing. thunk sound. Is it not the same sound um that was in Revenge of the Sith? No. oh okay.
00:52:42
Speaker
No. Right. So I wondered if it was something that they had added in, because there's so many added things in the movie. I don't think it is the same sound, because I watched that one recently and I didn't notice the... That's got like a hiss and then a vacuum.
00:52:54
Speaker
Yeah, but that is a... It's a thunk. Wow. Ooh. I mean, I love that bit. I mean, I remember that that i vividly remember that as a kid. Like i in my head, I think my brain sort of half blocked it.
00:53:09
Speaker
So obviously I saw at the cinema, but then couldn't watch it for a few years after. yeah And in my memory, it was more like um a sponge cake kind of texture. You know, like yeah you know those pink and yellow, is it? but but Oh, Battenberg. Battenberg.
00:53:24
Speaker
Like a kind of mashed up Battenberg was the back of Vader's head. Because think that was just my seven-year-old brain protecting myself from horrific scarring, which it clearly is. um yeah that was a ah real moment and i love the the actor who i think it's is it general fears at that point i can't remember which of the imperials it is that comes in and has to like look around like not he doesn't want to see it he's like trying to get vader's privacy yeah um that's a great bit of sound yeah it's so it's a really clear sunk love it
00:53:58
Speaker
ah equally like obtuse sound excellent the way the it's about ambience more than sound design okay in the recovery room after luke's come out of the bacta in the scene where they have all the banter and the kiss yeah the the the sound in there is so clean and and there's a little echo like it's kind of a very reflective room and it's like reassuringly indoors.
00:54:26
Speaker
Yeah. Because Luke has been outside in the snow him and Han were out in the snow and you've got that dead muffled wind and whee. Yeah. And no echoey voice, you know very clean voice because it's in the snow and very muffly.
00:54:40
Speaker
But then we're indoors now and the echo tells you you're in a room. Yeah. And I think Luke hearing that on his awakening is like, oh, okay, God, thank God. Back at the base. yeah Yeah. I don't know how intentional that is, but I like to feel that was intentional. Yeah.
00:54:54
Speaker
um Music-wise, I've already mentioned the Yoda lifting the X-Wing. The Yoda lifting the X-Wing bit, yeah. um But i also noticed at the very beginning, yeah um Luke is speaking to Han in the very first scene, Echo 3 to Echo 7,
00:55:12
Speaker
and we hear the theme which I thought was the love theme between Han and Leia, which is played at various points during their visit at
00:55:34
Speaker
I think we hear that theme when Luke calls Han ah on his wrist comm link at the beginning. um I might need to watch that scene again. Yeah, sure just to check.
00:55:46
Speaker
There is a theme there, regardless of whether it's that one. There's a theme there that feels like it's very subtle. Yeah. i've I only noticed it for the first time. Okay.
00:55:57
Speaker
Two nights ago when I watched it. um And it just made me go, wait, what? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I don't know what that means. i met It made me re-evaluate that theme of is it the three of them? Like, is it Han, Luke, and Leia? Because Han, Luke, and Leia are the heart of the trilogy.
00:56:15
Speaker
Yeah. So maybe it's to do with the three of them rather than the two them. Just Han and Leia, yeah. But then it is mentioned as Han and Leia. As the love theme, yeah. Yeah. Something we need to research, and I'm sure it comes back in Jedi, so we can watch it all for next time. does come back, yeah. It definitely comes back. For music, we've got this scene in the cave when Luke gets into the cave on Jacobite. The music just gets like...
00:56:43
Speaker
wild I wrote Stravinsky exclamation mark. I mean, yeah John Williams is often mentioned he's inspired by Stravinsky. Yeah. so like it's like part of the firebird suite.
00:56:54
Speaker
Yeah. As he's climbing, climbing down and there's like the snakes and the lizards and stuff. Yeah. And then he has his kind of dream battle in there with Vader and he cuts off Vader's head and then it's his own head and bu but but and we've got a little timpani roll that happens at that point and it's very dramatic. It is. It is. But the lead up to that from yeah him first noticing the dark side. him noticing the cave.
00:57:19
Speaker
And I bet, like, I can't remember off the top of my head, but i bet the clue for us as an audience that there's Darkseid will be music. Yeah. Because nobody says anything. There's just, like, this kind of, like, Luke looks around and he's like... Yeah.
00:57:31
Speaker
Wait a second. Yeah. Yeah, he's very abstract. Like, John Williams is using really interesting instruments. And I think, like, alternative ways of playing those instruments. Yeah.
00:57:43
Speaker
I've got a feeling there might be vibraphone or something like that. It's kind of, like, non-typical... yeah stuff is going on yeah which is very very very Stravinsky yeah I really love that and people often forget that side of Williams that he writes a banging tune you know there's no doubt about that but he also is great at making those quirky the in inside the space slug as well like there's some weird weird stuff going on yeah I love that. Of course there's weird stuff going on inside a space slug.
00:58:16
Speaker
We can't not mention the Imperial March because...
The Imperial March's First Appearance
00:58:20
Speaker
No. Again, it wasn't long ago that I realised we don't hear the Imperial March in A New Hope. He hadn't written it. It's not there. No, no. All you get is... First year in the Empire, so it's back to me. There's like... um
00:58:33
Speaker
denta which is like a Death Star-like thing. yeah And then there is a like a kind of a march-type thing that we get. can't think of how it goes off the top of my head. Like when Vader first appears in the Tent of through the Exploded Door.
00:58:46
Speaker
There is a theme there, but it's not the Imperial March. Can tell you a story about the Imperial March? Please do.
00:58:56
Speaker
So years and years ago, when I first moved to Bristol, I used to teach forest schools. And um i to start with, I was like assisting them and then I started leading them.
00:59:07
Speaker
And I was so paranoid about, like I need to make sure all the kids stay with me, or we we need to make sure this happens. um So I was like really strict with them. I'd count them, sign them all in in the hall, and then they had to walk in single file behind me and between me and my assistant.
00:59:22
Speaker
yeah And one day they just started singing the Imperial March from behind me as we walked across the playground. And I burst out laughing because it was the funniest
Cultural Impact of the Imperial March
00:59:34
Speaker
thing ever. And i was like, fine if that keeps you in single file, fine. I'm absolutely fine with that.
00:59:38
Speaker
And every week it became a thing. They loved it. So they would line up and sing the Imperial March as we walked across to the forest school. does so It was spontaneous. The kids started it and they just... yeah And it was something to do with the way I was marching them across that they that that they decided that that was suitable.
01:00:00
Speaker
And they did it for a year and a half of me leading that group. That's amazing. I mean, it's it's so part of the zeitgeist, you know, musically.
01:00:11
Speaker
Like, it immediately tells you everything you need to know yeah about the Empire. Yeah. Oh, I know that, yeah. A New Hope has got... dead and Yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah havent yeah But we don't have... But we don't have... them to little and and need learn lin yeah and and Yeah. So good. So good.
01:00:32
Speaker
So good. So how does Strikes Back rank? I've got one more question for you. Oh, you've one more question? Yeah. Go for it. Did you find the Wilhelm scream? I did not. I forgot to listen out for it.
01:00:45
Speaker
um Okay, you win. You win the podcast. Yes! Tell me, where is it? Where's Wilhelm scream? Okay.
01:00:57
Speaker
yeah When they realise that ah Han is about to be frozen in carbonite, Chewie throws three stormtroopers off the third stormtrooper and does the Wilhelm scream.
01:01:12
Speaker
It's very subtle because Chewie is making noise over the top of it. Yeah. Because he's having a bit of a moment, but it's there. I need to go and watch that scene immediately. ah I was like, i I swear it's here. I know it's here somewhere. I know it's here. it's the I watched that scene three times and i was like, found it. It's definitely there. Amazing. Well done. That is so cool. And it was locked in my brain that it was in that scene somewhere. and like Yeah, just had to. Third time. Actually, that has reminded me of another bit sound design. I like, sorry, just sneak an extra one in. Do it. Is the Ugnaught voices. They're little kind of like squeals. Yeah. Yeah.
01:01:49
Speaker
It's interesting in um Mandalorian, there is an Ugnaught character in season one, but he speaks basic, you know, he can talk okay to Mando. And he does have an interesting turn of phrase. And he says, i have spoken. This is kind of catchphrase. yeah um But it's just interesting hearing Ugnaught speaking their own language. And it, I mean, now like pig-like.
01:02:11
Speaker
They've got pig teeth big teeth yeah and snouts and stuff. yeah Anyway, yeah sorry.
Debate on The Empire Strikes Back's Ranking
01:02:18
Speaker
Nice. color um so yeah ah having discussed it and having rewatched it, how does Empire rank with you over like me overall?
01:02:30
Speaker
Yeah. Oh my goodness. everything you've seen of Star Wars so far. I guess I'm kind of interested in this because so many people say it's their favorite. Yeah. And I i i alluded last time that this might be my favorite. And then I went away and thought about it.
01:02:45
Speaker
And then I went, when did I start saying this was my favorite? And I think I started saying it. I was heavily influenced to start saying it when I was a kid. yeah yeah And then I'm like, but is it? Because...
01:03:00
Speaker
Because, yeah, there was a lot of people around me who were older and cooler and saying that it was the favourite. So then I was like, ooh... Return the Jedi might be my favourite.
01:03:12
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. I think I totally agree with you. like I feel like for a while I kept questioning myself yeah from, I don't know, when it would have been. like yeah It feels like it was before I listened to podcasts, but definitely in the the listening to Star Wars podcast world, I've heard so many people say it's their favourite.
01:03:32
Speaker
But I don't know. I don't think it ever has been my true favourite. For a long time, Return the Jedi was mine, definitely. Yeah, yeah. Interesting. I don't know what I would say now. It changes from time to time. I mean, I actually love Phantom Menace.
01:03:45
Speaker
I hate to say it. for a while, Revenge of the Sith. Revenge of the Sith has a special place in my heart from when I first saw it, which I'll tell you about when we when we get that do that one. none But it definitely had place in my heart as like the combiner of stories. It calls the web of...
01:04:06
Speaker
storylines together. But Return of the Jedi is just an incredibly well-structured film yeah and it's got so much fun, but also so much like epicness and drama. Yeah.
01:04:20
Speaker
yeah It's kind of like Empire on steroids. Yeah. ah ah Like they took what they did at Empire Strikes Back and just like turned it all up to 11. Yeah. Yeah.
01:04:32
Speaker
yeah So I don't know. i don't know. I guess I'm going to have to rewatch Return of the Jedi and get back to you on that. Well, that well beautifully rounds off the episode.
01:04:44
Speaker
um Because next week we'll be back. Yes. With some thoughts. Some thoughts about Return of the Jedi. We'll be telling you if droids have got any more like human-like, we might be looking out for any lightsaber action. Excellent.
01:05:01
Speaker
And i there's definitely some bisexual awakening stuff in the next one, so that's going to be fun. Oh, really? Well, yeah. I mean, but not too much of a surprise, to be fair. Because, I mean, Mum Mothma, you know, she's got it going on. She's got it going.
01:05:20
Speaker
Oh, yeah, there's a few more women in the next one. What? No. well Well, there's technically, if we go back to the theatrical release, there's two more. One of them is Mon Mothma and one of them is Sy Snootles.
01:05:38
Speaker
Oh, hang on. And another one. Eve99, the torture droid. Well, no, she's not the torture droid. She's the kind of droid manager. Droid manager. But we're going to talk about that next week. Yeah, we'll talk about that next time. Thoughts about that too. Okay.
01:05:52
Speaker
We'll be back next week. Look out for us in your feed. Don't forget to subscribe. And if you want to give us some like, you know, feedback, give us a rating. You can. Please do.
01:06:03
Speaker
Thanks for listening. Thank you. See you next time. Bye.