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Your Nationality Is Only One Layer of Who You Are. Pt 2 of 2 ft. Dr. Jerome Dumetz
17 Plays2 days ago
What if the cultural frameworks your organization relies on are actually reinforcing the very stereotypes they were designed to eliminate? In Part 2 of our conversation with Dr. Jerome Dumetz, cross-cultural management expert and author of 199 Cross Cultural Case Studies, we explore why real-life case studies offer something no theoretical model can: the full, messy, human context of intercultural work.
Dr. Dumetz makes a bold argument. Widely used models such as Hofstede, Trompenaars, and the Lewis Triangle, while historically significant, risk generating stereotypes when applied without context. His answer is a carefully curated collection of 199 one-page, real-world case studies documenting cultural misunderstandings, adaptation moments, and professional breakthroughs from around the globe. Developed in collaboration with Fons Trompenaars and Craig Storti, the book bridges academic intercultural theory with the lived experience of expats and global professionals.
One of the most thought-provoking ideas in this episode is the concept of multiple cultural identities. Your nationality, what Dumetz calls your "passport culture," is just one layer of who you are professionally. Where you studied, which industry you entered, and the department where your career began can shape your professional worldview far more deeply than the country on your ID. For expats, international managers, and cross-cultural trainers, this reframing changes how intercultural work gets done.
We also explore the growing role of AI in cross-cultural management. Dumetz acknowledges AI's usefulness in translation and language support, but raises critical questions about the cultural bias embedded in AI models and their inability to replicate the nuanced, questioning mindset that genuine intercultural competence requires.
His most memorable advice for anyone stepping into a new cultural environment? Slow down. Pause before reacting. And instead of asking "What should I do?", turn to the people around you and ask: "What would you do?" This small shift in framing opens the door to genuine cultural learning and more authentic integration abroad.
Whether you are an expat navigating life in a new country, a manager leading a cross-cultural team, or an HR specialist building intercultural training programs, this conversation offers both intellectual depth and practical, grounded insight.
🔗 Connect with Dr. Jerome Dumetz:
🌐 Website: JEROME DUMETZ WEBSITE
📚 Get the Book, 199 Cross Cultural Case Studies: LINK TO AMAZON US BOOKSTORE (Also available on other Amazon international sites)
▶️ YouTube: JEROME DUMETZ YOUTUBE CHANNEL
💼 LinkedIn: JEROME DUMETZ LINKEDIN PROFILE
📩 Free Case Study Excerpt (comment on his LinkedIn post): LINK TO LINKEDIN POST
Learn more about the Auto Ethnographer: https://www.auto-ethnographer.com
Want to move abroad but the process seems to imposing? Visit the Auto Ethnographer's Your Ticket Abroad on-line course. The course offers 28 videos and a 54-page checklist guide for tacking the challenge of moving abroad, whether alone, with a partner, or with an entire family. Visit the course page here: Course: "Your Ticket Abroad" — The Auto Ethnographer
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Transcript
Influence of Culture Beyond Nationality
00:00:00
Speaker
I believe that the culture that influences us most is not our national culture, what we call in our milieu, we call that passport culture. So, I mean, where you were born and got a passport, that's one thing. But we know that maybe studying somewhere can actually influence you a lot.
Introduction to Dr. Jerome Dumetz and Career
00:00:20
Speaker
The Autoethnographer, your weekly cultural trip around the world. Last week, we introduced Dr. Jerome Dumetz, renowned cross-cultural management expert and author.
AI's Role in Cross-Cultural Management
00:00:32
Speaker
We learned about his passion for cross-cultural studies and his extensive cross-cultural management work in two sectors, business consulting and university teaching. This week, we immediately jump into a conversation about his book, 199 Cross-Cultural Case Studies, short stories of real cultural misunderstandings from around the world and their analysis.
00:00:57
Speaker
We'll also explore the topic of AI and whether that technology will have an impact on cross-cultural management.
Writing '199 Cross-Cultural Case Studies'
00:01:03
Speaker
He'll also give some advice for people who are going out and interacting with a different culture for the first time.
00:01:10
Speaker
Grab your coffee or tea And let's get started. Well, I think let's let's get into what I would say is really the most exciting part of the conversation, which is that you have very recently. I think the the ink is still is still wet almost. Yeah, at least or it's true. A few weeks ago.
00:01:28
Speaker
And your book is the one hundred ninety nine cross cultural case studies. And
Department vs. National Culture
00:01:33
Speaker
it's a it's a massive collection of of real life stories that um give examples of of things gone right, things gone wrong, um things gone sideways in intercultural interactions. let's tell tell me Tell us how it came to that book. What was the inspiration and and what was your journey to get to printing and writing and printing this book?
00:01:59
Speaker
Right. So it all started years ago. So see back to old oldies with this book. So that's ah right. so head head to So this is a textbook I published more than 10 years ago. ah Precisely a bit to answer almost the questions that you've just asked, actually. um
Creating a Cross-Cultural Management Textbook
00:02:20
Speaker
So cross-culture development.
00:02:23
Speaker
I like to call it cross-cultures. It's simpler. It doesn't need to be cross-cultural management communication. So the influence of culture in the way we we work and so on is a relatively new concept. all right And ah for for years, as I explained, we had a number of authors who came up with very interesting ideas. concept and so on, great. But at one point, when you're teaching it or or or as an individual, you want to document yourself about it, there was not really any you know ah
00:02:53
Speaker
best off or some collection that would regroup it all. ah ah the you had You needed to have a whole library, basically, of authors to get the full picture. And because it is a new... um a new new topic, a lot of authors, well, they're still around. I mean, ah it's ah it' it's very important.
Importance of Context in Cultural Case Studies
00:03:16
Speaker
It's very fresh, precisely. So I had an idea of creating a textbook. all right. I thought, hey, I would love as as um as a lecturer, I would love to have a textbook that I could use, simple, where where basically the the main ideas would be explained with some examples and so on. And so I called... ah
00:03:37
Speaker
all those great authors and and and all the people I called, they said, oh, yes, sure. ah Here's my contribution. So it's really like ah it's um it's an ensemble cast. I don't know if it applies for books, ah but I've got really some very, very ah impressive co-authors from Marilith Belbin, who with his famous teamwork and, of course, Fauds Tropenars and Craig Storty and And different people like that who who who who join. and in and and And for each chapter, you have also a couple of of workshops and case studies that illustrate the concepts, right ah short case studies. And over the years, I've been in contact with a number of people.
00:04:27
Speaker
readers or most of the readers are fellow lecturers and trainers and so on. And and I've been asked repeatedly to send them in in different formats the um the the case studies. and and And personally, I use them a lot.
00:04:44
Speaker
And so over the years, I started to to to to think about ah maybe a a new book that would focus only on case studies. And the reason is because ah what made this field famous, those models of cross-cultural management from Trump and ours, Hofstetter, Richard Lewis, I mean, you've got big names like that. They ah they came up with... ah with what we call ethic work, right so which is ah some some ah some models that ah the yeah the author is a little bit outside. So you create ah a theoretical model. right That's the T for ethic. It's not ethics, it's ethic. And ah there exists in anthropology, there exists also emic, where where the observer goes inside the culture
00:05:40
Speaker
to observe, right? So if you think of guys like, you know, Indiana Jones, all right, you go inside, you observe. And actually, over the years, ah many people who who who study this topic come to the conclusion that those models they become toxic for the field itself. um You have too often, when we try to explain culture, you know we take the trump card of, ah oh, Hofstetter model, oh, Trump and on. those models over the years, they the balance of pros and cons is less and less in their favor. And and there are a number of ah of characteristics that that makes them
00:06:25
Speaker
dangerous to use, I would say. They carry stereotypes because it's easy to say, oh, yes, so you're German. So, yeah, well, of course you are like that, which is like, oh, come on. and What about a German who who's been all over the career as the world, right? Or I'm French, so you you do like that. ah and And also ah my own research ah brought me to to the point nowadays where I believe that the culture that influences us most is not our national culture, what we call in our milieu, we call that passport culture. So, I mean, where you were born and got a passport, that's one thing. But we know that maybe ah studying somewhere can can actually ah influence you a lot. I mean, maybe you were born in China, but you studied in the US. How much the Chinese culture is influencing you in your way of doing business? Well, maybe not so much. And and then you've got also corporate culture. Everybody knows about that. There are big differences of corporate culture. But I believe a lot that the department culture is probably the area where where we should focus more our research in the
Insights from Cultural Case Studies
00:07:31
Speaker
future. Because um if you if you take an individual who was born somewhere, studied somewhere, all right, that influences how you're going work. That's clear. But you get this, you know, first meaningful experience. I mean, I'm not talking about summer jobs and stuff like that. You know, like after graduation, going have your first proper job. which is hopefully a little bit related with what you studied. all right and And then this this experience, I think, is really forming our culture of work. Like if you if you start your your career in ah in accounting versus you start your career in sales, no matter how your career evolves after, i believe very strongly that your perception of technology
00:08:18
Speaker
how an organization should function and and what is a desired management style will stem a lot from this vision that you got from the beginning. you know It had some sort of an imprint very strongly. Or or or another example is people who immediately have to work after school, sorry they create their own company, entrepreneurs.
00:08:39
Speaker
ah you You meet sometimes colleagues and so on who work in a big company, but you find out that for several years they were entrepreneurs. I mean, it didn't really work, otherwise they wouldn't be necessarily working in the big company. But they got this mindset of you know like ah finding a solution, and which people who immediately work for large organizations don't have.
00:08:58
Speaker
and and And so ah all that combined led me to to think that it's it's it's necessary. and this is a discussion I'm having with a lot of other colleagues of cross-cultural management on on on all those, you know, discussion platforms, forums, and so on. that actually ah case studies is a better answer because you're going to have people with multiple identities. I mean, nowadays, ah it's it's it's no longer extraordinary to deal with people who speak foreign languages, who've been traveling abroad, who've got parents that are maybe coming from different cultures. i mean, we we meet people like that all over the place. and And it's more interesting to observe a particular situation
00:09:45
Speaker
with all the context, and the context will be an essential in a case study. That's basically what the case study is about, is is we we look at you know a small ah set of context.
00:09:59
Speaker
We look at whether the author works it out or not. I've got some cases where they the the The author just acknowledged that something got wrong, right or it was puzzling or something. big Sometimes the author also explains how they got out of the trouble, which is also very good. um And then after, of course, I propose an analysis. ah So the analysis is based on cross-cultural concepts.
00:10:30
Speaker
and ah But that's that's already... um I mean, it's it's it's a bonus. mean, ah maybe some people are just interested in reading those cases and they'll be very happy with that. Maybe others will be happy to read my analysis, which I try to make as concise as possible. There is a thick glossary at the end still so that you understand the terms. ah and ah and And I guess lots of people will disagree with my analysis because, after all, we talk about culture, all right? so I mean, I don't claim I've got the absolute understanding of the situation. just some tendency to say.
00:11:08
Speaker
So these case studies, how ah how how how big are they? How long
Blind Spots in Cross-Cultural Interactions
00:11:12
Speaker
are they typically? They're very short, actually. they They're typically one one page long, enough so that could be ah to be photocopied. Yeah, because ah same story. I mean, there are plenty of ah case studies for different topics that exist, and not not necessarily in cross-cultural management. But I mean, when I was a student, I had sometimes 50 pages case study you know in finance and stuff like that. That's not the purpose here. It's really to illustrate a point. right So you you talk about the concept of, I don't know, ah how do we react when people follow the rules and don't follow the rules and this kind of stuff. And so it's it's short examples to say, hey, look, this and this happens. Well,
00:11:56
Speaker
Why? Because those people have a different understanding about how we react when someone breaks the rules. Oh, yes. OK, nice. so Once you understand that, you can think of it differently. It is inspired, actually, from ah from a very successful book from Craig Storty, who who very nicely wrote a nice blurb ah for for the book. Craig Storty published many years ago a short book called Cultural Dialogues, Cross-Cultural Dialogues. and And in this short book, he he came up with, ah like like it says, some short dialogues, but like it's it's a few lines and there's no context, right? And and you need to figure out ah what what is at play here. So it's it's a wonderful resource, the work of Craig Storty. And so I wanted to to to do something a little bit along the same style, but this time to provide the context with short examples.
00:12:55
Speaker
was Was he the one that wrote the endorsement that went that your book is like a ah piercing light into that The very same one. Our blindness of our deepest assumptions.
00:13:06
Speaker
I love that quote. That's Fon's Trump and ours. But Craig Storty also wrote, yes, an endorsement. Very nice one, yes. So what would you say are...
00:13:19
Speaker
the biggest, and in your opinion, and I know there are millions of people and everybody is different, but generally speaking, what would you think are the biggest blind spots that that people struggle with in these cross-cultural interactions?
00:13:36
Speaker
It's almost always the same thing. It's the assumption that people think like us, ah that we we We look at the world through only one perspective and we think this is the world.
Relativity of Normality Across Cultures
00:13:52
Speaker
And so it's ah it's it's it's always a shock to realize that if you if you move a little bit on a different perspective, you see the world a little different. And sometimes you got someone who who's standing on the other side and they look at the opposite, right? What you see as blacks, they see white and so on. And so ah that that would be the the major issue because it concerns all of us. ah and And of course, when you when you grow up in an environment, when you are being...
00:14:24
Speaker
explain that there are different perspectives, different ideas, different cultures. You're a little bit more prepared. So some people are totally unprepared. They live in an environment that is in ah in some sort of cultural denial, you know, like a culture is not even a thing. It's just the world is like that and that's it. You know, it's my way or the highway. ah and And so those ones, usually they fall off really from their from the steps, ah but but yes, I would say that this this inability to to to to to accept that people look at the world differently.
00:15:05
Speaker
I remember it was my first overseas assignment as a very young general manager. And I was walking on the on the street in Cairo with with one of my colleagues.
00:15:19
Speaker
And I just was looking around and I said, i love all ah i love this chaos. And my colleague stopped and he looks all around us and he goes, ah Mr. John,
00:15:35
Speaker
what exactly are you talking about? And I said, all of this chaos. and And he said, oh, you mean what's on the street? And he goes, this is normal. like yeah and And for me, it was it was viewed as as ah as a chaotic situation where I couldn't sort all of the different activities going on in the street. and And for him, it is absolutely a completely normal day on the streets of Cairo.
00:16:00
Speaker
But the the next step, I would say, is to accept that the concept of normality is something very relative.
00:16:13
Speaker
which is um it's counterintuitive. I mean, normality, I mean, when people say, oh, but it's a normal thing to do, this is a normal way, ah doesn't imply that it should be relative. And and and it is the most relative ah concept that can exist. What we consider normal is in reality what what we used to do, or to be more precise, what we like to do.
00:16:40
Speaker
That's what we consider normal. you Think about normal food, normal clothes, normal way to speak. In reality, we project ourselves to the world. We hope the world is going to be like us.
Target Audience for Cultural Case Studies
00:16:52
Speaker
It really ah No, you're you're absolutely correct. that That's right. Normal is so hard to define because it's from every different perspective.
00:17:03
Speaker
um so So who is your audience for your book? And by the way, I'm going to make sure that that there's a link to be able to purchase your book in the show notes later. Thank you. ah The audience, um so it's hard to answer. I mean, ah obviously, ah anyone who's using material of cross-culture for their activities. So it can be lecturers, it can be a HR specialists, it can be some some trainers.
00:17:32
Speaker
But I do believe that it will interest a lot of people who are just interested in in discovering examples of ah how other people live, how other people ah react, behave, because it's ah I've tried to to be as eclectic as possible. I mean, it's not just a business book. Actually, ah business cases, they represent a little bit less than half of the cases ah because, well, for instance, there are lot examples about studying abroad. Well, So a lot of my students who came up with those cases and they experienced, you know, you go study abroad, you study style, where do you study and so on, different teaching styles and so on. ah and and and and And I've got also, um when I was sorting out all the cases, that took me a long time, of course, um I discovered a lot of cases actually are are not about international setting, right? And... And like as I said, i believe that the future of that field is to to appear no longer as a topic that is exclusively for international studies, right, like international business or international communication, but to become just a one of the pillars of just management. Because ah I've got a lot of cases that are people working in the same company and ah you've got subsidiaries calling. so yes, there's an international aspect, but also ah eternally between subsidiaries and headquarters, it's... ah
00:19:10
Speaker
It's day and night. And you've got also people of different departments that ah that don't mix very well, ah typically ah marketing and finance and then so on.
Advice for Entering New Cultures
00:19:24
Speaker
And so I've got a lot of cases like that that I think should should also be relatable for a lot of people.
00:19:32
Speaker
And I have a soft spot among the... So I've got about 12 chapters, right? ah And one of the chapters I like most, of course, are the ah the family stories. So family stories and what we call the third culture kids. So people who are in between two cultures, so they come up with their own. So that's what we call third culture kids. yeah And so I have a number of wonderful examples like that about... ah the the other side. I mean, when if you come from a call from a family where where it's been only a monocultural, ah you you you have no idea behind the scenes how it works, right? So so that that's... that's ah And at the end, I got a number of longer cases also, because during my quest, I came up, ah came across very interesting stories that were very different format. But I thought, oh, they should be, they could interest some people. So some are several pages long. And I think, I think they got their place to there.
00:20:37
Speaker
Great. i I was very appreciative that um before you published the book, I had a chance to see some of those cases. You had shared those with me. And I can only urge the the audience, the listening audience, um it's really well written and it's highly interesting. You can probably read all of it through in a day because it's so interesting. You can't put it down from this, from my opinion.
00:21:03
Speaker
Okay. Very glad to hear that. it Advice, you mean you mentioned a moment ago about yeah normal and and people stepping into ah into a different culture.
00:21:15
Speaker
um I'm thinking about about expats and and you've coached countless ones um in business or the families or the spouses. um what What would you think is the the single biggest piece of advice that you would give to a person who is prospectively about to move abroad?
00:21:36
Speaker
Well, probably the same advice that we would ah would give to, um that ah that a wise manager would give to ah to a young one, which is don't rush.
00:21:52
Speaker
Take your time. ah Most of the times, again, so it's the mirror answer to to the previous one, to the previous question.
Seeking Local Insights for Cultural Understanding
00:22:02
Speaker
The the single biggest problem is people ah assuming that the the world is is is the same as their immediate environment, and it is not. So how not to fall in that trap is to just get this you know split moment of hesitation, which... prevents you from from from just you know going with your momentum and to crash. So sometimes you just pause a little bit, you you press the pause button a little bit.
00:22:31
Speaker
and and And that's usually enough to to ask yourself, hold on a second, is it really how things are done here? Is it is it normal for them? Is that the way they do? And and and and most of the time it's enough, this sort of, ah or just asking, you know, like you you're about to take a decision And you pose and and and instead of ah behaving like you would do at home, which would be considered normal for you, you ask, ask ask a local, oh, I'm sorry, for me, it's very odd this moment. ah
00:23:07
Speaker
is it Is it normal for you? Sometimes it's not, right? that's Sometimes even for locals, they say, no, no, no, you don't do that here. oh so So you need to to to get the law. And, and, and,
00:23:19
Speaker
And one question, for instance, I came to ask myself, but I ask others regularly, is is not, the right question is not to ask, ah ah what should I do?
00:23:33
Speaker
Because again, when you're a foreigner, often the the locals, they are they don't want to to bother you. They don't want to offend you. those they The answer is usually, well, you do as you want, everything's all right, right? Which is not true. It's not true right So a better better question is, ah what would you do?
00:23:53
Speaker
right So you you're with a colleague who's local ah and and you you you yeah like you go to the restaurant and you're like, oh, what should I take? oh you take what you want. but What will you take? Oh, but I'm going to take that. right Do you think I will like it? Why don't you try? Okay, you try. it so ah So because people answer differently what they think you should do and what they think they should do. And and focusing on what they should do brings you a little bit closer to the cultural norm of the place.
Background Knowledge Before Cultural Immersion
00:24:18
Speaker
but But generally, to take your time. You take your time. and And it comes, of course, with age, you know when you've got a little bit more experience. And you look at situation a little bit from a distance. And you're like, oh hold on a second.
00:24:34
Speaker
Maybe we need to be careful. Maybe I should ask someone else. Maybe I should i should let things a little bit settle down. Maybe I should not react you know immediately. And and that's that's usually enough.
00:24:48
Speaker
to listen instead of talking. that's really good word of advice. I know that I always tried to honestly rush rush into it. I would buy of again, this is 20 years ago, ah books. If people remember books, you remember books, clearly. I do. like Some people don't. um But I would buy books before I would move to a new country and I would try to devour three, four, five books on the culture of that country to try to understand the culture before I even arrived. And and and of course, that doesn't really work because you're not in it. You don't see the people. You're just reading literally theory.
00:25:25
Speaker
And Yeah, but it's it's still useful because it gives you the foundations. ah Still, you're much more prepared when you read the facts. I mean, content, I mean, I don't know don't know exactly how to put it, but knowledge. I mean, ah i actually, with with some colleagues who who work on on the field of technology,
00:25:45
Speaker
of of cultural competence. I don't always agree. Maybe that's my my own cultural background, but I do believe that that knowledge ah ah is i mean predates the attitude and behavior in when we're talking of culture. Do your homework, learn about the culture in books and asking questions and so on. ah You're going to be better prepared to then adapt your attitude and behavior. But Well, it's an open discussion. Other people think that you need to come with an open mind and then you know nothing and you're going to be fed with information. I mean, it's it's it's it's it's also valid. yeah
00:26:26
Speaker
But I can give you an example about about that. if ah Like one that I apply all the time. and So in ah in when we talk about cross-cultural communication, which is one one element of cross-cultural management,
00:26:41
Speaker
um we There is a very important element called a paralinguage. So paralinguage is about what not what we say, but how we say it, the way we speak. And this is very tricky because when we use a a foreign language, we ah we we speak a foreign language, but our paralinguistics usually comes from our mother tongue.
00:27:05
Speaker
I'm not talking of accents here. It's so like it's again something else. But an important element in this subcategory of cultural studies
Communication Styles Across Cultures
00:27:14
Speaker
is turn taking, which is ah how we how we structure a conversation. right So when we're having a formal conversation, mean not of course when you go to with some friends in pubs and so on. That doesn't apply, of course. But when you're having having ah a formal conversation, everybody knows that it's yeah like you go on a job interview, you're going to meet the future in-laws or, know, politician or somebody important.
00:27:40
Speaker
And you know that you need to be careful as much what you say, but when you're going to talk. Right. And so cultures vary a lot for that in their in their norms. So norms are really like the rules that we expect people to follow. And so in some cultures, it's it's. um we're we're having a bit of the walkie-talkie type, right? So, you know, today we use that because, of course, on on video it's better. One speaks, the other one doesn't speak and listens, and so it's really on-off, on-off. But in some other cultures, which you will find all around the Mediterranean, for instance, it's much more common to to combine, right? I speak, and and and I'm sorry, since the beginning, i keep interrupting you because I have this tendency to... to overlap a little bit, which ah from a cultural perspective means I'm engaged into conversation ah whereas in Whereas in the other cultures where where it's a walkie-talkie type, we show respect by remaining silent. So those are two very different styles. Now, um I work in Czechia and the Czech are ah what I call the walkie-talkie type, right? One after the other, okay?
00:28:55
Speaker
I'm not. ah However, with my job at the university, I'm frequently, of course, in meetings with lots of colleagues and so on. And over the years, I have, I would say, restrained myself voluntarily to um to speak whenever I wanted. There's a linguistic aspect where my Czech is very poor. but um So maybe I misunderstand what's the exact discussion, but mostly because I've noticed that waiting till the end of the discussion about a particular topic and then sharing my opinion will carry more weight in the final decision of the group than if in the middle of the discussion i intervene.
00:29:39
Speaker
right I mean, I could really... ah ah measure
AI's Impact and Limitations in Cultural Contexts
00:29:42
Speaker
that. And so ah that that's that's an example exactly how you can modify your your your behavior that brings you some benefits.
00:29:53
Speaker
that is That's fascinating. um i never I never thought about that. that that style, um how do I want to call it, where where you wait, it wait your turn. I think i'm i'm i'm I'm German by heritage, so I tend to be very definitively walkie-talkie.
00:30:13
Speaker
Yes, yes. For you, it's natural, not no normal. We don't use natural in cross-culture. It's a tricky word. Yes, yeah. So I have, ah speaking of the word natural, I have i have a ah word that's rather unnatural, which is artificial intelligence.
00:30:32
Speaker
and know And I'm thinking... you know This is getting into every aspect of our lives. and and i'm I'm thinking, how does ai ultimately influence the work that you're doing? um you know you have as but As far as language is concerned, you have these translators that are almost simultaneous translators. and That's just pure language. but Where do you see AI somehow stepping in and playing a role when it comes to actual cross-cultural relations?
00:31:05
Speaker
Well, AI is, in my in my opinion, it's a fancy word that replaces just computers. all right it's just We've had computers for many years that were doing automated processes. It just got more and more refined in ah in guessing what we what we want.
00:31:24
Speaker
ah In cross-culture, it's, of course, it's ah' it's a very useful tool. I'm not going to deny the the translation issue, which is now near perfect, even ah slangish and ironic and be quite... ah quite quite quite understood well. ah Again, it's a matter of data, basically, there the more data you got. the more you can find it. um And ah if we were just talking about um analyzing cases, ah it it it does a ah fair job, right? Because we're using methods on it. However, in real life, um precisely ai
Authenticity of Cultural Case Studies vs. AI
00:32:12
Speaker
yet, i don't know, maybe is is going to i mean it might maybe maybe it's a question of a prompt, but doesn't have this
00:32:19
Speaker
questioning attitude, right? It's still very streamlined, right? So there's ah there's ah there's a question which goes from A to B and and so on, and then a C and D. Whereas in cross-culture, I believe that it's always important to take a step on the side and say, hold on a second. Maybe they didn't mean that. So unless you prompt the AI to think on the step outside,
00:32:43
Speaker
Well, then you don't need the AI because you've done the job yourself already. So so that's so that that that's one thing. But actually, AI is also one of the reasons for that book, by the way, because... um I mean, virtually we can ask AI to illustrate any concept with a million examples. Yeah, but nothing replaces real ah ah authentic cases because when when you read that, you're like, no, but come on, that's not possible or or they didn't understand that it's wrong and so on. And so i think precisely ah with the surge of AI increasingly artificial um material, ah we need to get back to to the real life because ah even if we use AI every day, at the end it is us, humans, taking the decision of our lives, talking to people and so on. So so it's ah it's an interesting tool and actually that's going to be one of my coming projects with a colleague of mine who's specialized on ai because in my university there's a department specialized on that. And we we we are going to work on looking at the cultural bias of of the different models, because ah it's it's pretty obvious that ah the AI models that have been culturally shaped.
00:34:12
Speaker
ah I think it's a big problem, actually, because we we we use AI a little bit like a neutral oracle, which it is not. It's neither oracle nor neutral. And and I think ah there is there's interesting work to do in this direction. Yeah.
Cultural Biases in AI Models
00:34:36
Speaker
that That's a fascinating perspective. that The fact that AI itself has an inherent bias just like the rest of us do. um In this case, it's programmed in there by somebody.
00:34:50
Speaker
I had a little example a few days ago. i was working with a graphic designer i was looking at one of my pictures, right? And and she she was saying that the picture was was not good quality, all right? So she she said, oh, i'm I'm going to to to go through ai to to increase the the resolution. And in the picture, we see only one one one arm. right The other one, we don't see my hand. And so the AI, like ah it grew one hand. rights like and and it's it's very well done. that It's very well done because that that's just to expand a little bit the size of the picture. but
00:35:30
Speaker
Funny thing is that I'm married and I wear a wedding ring, but for ah so totally different reasons, I wear my wedding ring on the right hand, which ah which is not so common. I mean, Orthodox people do that. I'm not Orthodox, but I do it either. And so I laugh because the hand that was created actually added a ring on the on my on my left hand. So on the picture, i end up with two wedding rings, which is one too many. My wife wasn't too happy. But i I don't know if it's just one of those hallucinations or if it is also a cultural bias that, well, ah most people wear their wedding ring on the left, right? And it's all right.
00:36:13
Speaker
That's a really great observation. And and I'm glad that that you got through this with your wife. I'm sure there was lot of red wine involved. I just cropped the picture at the end.
00:36:26
Speaker
There was no compromise possible. So, Jerome, I i really appreciate the ah the example you
Closing Advice on Cultural Perspectives
00:36:32
Speaker
just gave. um I do think we're going to wind down the episode now. And I wanted to really thank you for the time you spent today. It's number one, a pleasure to catch up again after a long time and to learn a lot about what what you have been doing and and to hear the story behind your your book. um is Is there anything that you would like to leave as a last word for the for the listeners and viewers?
00:37:00
Speaker
Well, first of all, I want to thank you ah for inviting me in this podcast. It's been a ah very ah fun experience and I hope your listeners will will be able to relate what we discussed. i'm I'm particularly thankful to you because I know you've got a ah vast to international experience. So you you you can you understand what I'm talking about very well. ah you you You have also a lot of examples that you can share.
00:37:27
Speaker
So that' that was great. ah um the The second thing is that I hope the book will will be of interest to to some of your listeners. They should give it a try. ah And um and and to to answer your your last question, yeah ah look at the world with with new eyes if you can. we we We get comfortable in our vision of the world. we we think it's ah it's how it is, how it should be and how it will be, but it never turns out to be like that. So so looking a little bit outside the frame ah usually gives great great opportunities.
00:38:07
Speaker
Those are great words of advice. Great words of advice, especially for anybody. Well, it works anywhere under any conditions. Not not only, of course, for for intercultural interactions. But again, thank you very much for for joining today.
00:38:23
Speaker
And with that, I'm going to close the episode for this week. Thank you to the listeners for joining in. I'll make sure that the link to Jerome's book is down in the show notes as well as any other information that he would like to share with you. And with that, I'll see you next week.
00:38:41
Speaker
Keep on driving.
00:38:44
Speaker
Thank you for joining us on today's journey. Please remember to like and subscribe to The Auto Ethnographer and leave us a rating or comment. For more information, visit our website at auto-ethnographer.com.
00:38:56
Speaker
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