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EP 46 Melissa Rodway: 15 Years Later, She Finally Wrote the Book About Her Journey
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Melissa Rodway left Toronto at 35 for a months-long backpacking trip across Southeast Asia — and came home a different person. Fifteen years later, those raw, unfiltered emails she sent from the road became her travel memoir, The People You Meet. In this episode of The Auto Ethnographer, host John Jörn Stech sits down with Melissa to unpack the life-changing friendships, cultural shocks, and hard-won lessons from her journey through Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, and China.
Melissa didn't plan to write a book. For over a decade, those emails sat untouched — a time capsule from her younger self. It took a series of personal losses, including the passing of her mother, to push her to finally turn those vivid travel memories into something lasting. The result is a deeply personal memoir that captures the beauty of temporary friendships formed on the road, the kind of connections that burn bright and then disappear, yet somehow stay with you forever.
In this conversation, Melissa opens up about the tension between being a travel observer and a true participant. She explores the ethical dilemmas of animal tourism in Thailand, the discomfort of photographing strangers, and what it felt like to become "the human zoo" as a foreigner in rural China — where entire villages had never seen a Western face. She shares a moving story about a family in Battambang, Cambodia, who invited her into their home for a meal despite having almost nothing, and how that moment of radical generosity reshaped her understanding of privilege back in Canada.
We also dive into the lasting emotional impact of visiting Cambodia's Killing Fields, and how confronting the history of the Khmer Rouge gave Melissa a deeper appreciation for the resilience of the Cambodian people. From a spontaneous dinner with strangers in Hanoi to navigating a Chinese queueing cultre with nothing but hand gestures, this episode is packed with the kind of unscripted human moments that no guidebook can prepare you for.
Melissa's advice for travelers of any age: slow down, say hello, and let go of the itinerary. The best experiences abroad don't come from ticking off landmarks — they come from the people you meet along the way.
Whether you're an expat navigating life in a foreign country, a backpacker planning your first solo trip, or simply someone who craves stories about cross-cultural connection and living abroad — this episode will inspire you to travel with more purpose, more curiosity, and more kindness.
📖 Get Melissa's Book — The People You Meet: https://www.amazon.ca/People-You-Meet-Interesting-Characters/dp/106904430X/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1S1BKT0SGLCI8&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.TlZrHy0V02MWPGcybuwtIZ36r168mkudXDX-0BnO-PY.RMq3iGOHHwk_fUKjKAbvOpOHqcoGuXa_ytyCwKSY9wE&dib_tag=se&keywords=the+people+you+meet+melissa+rodway&qid=1751586775&sprefix=the+people+you+meet%2Caps%2C99&sr=8-1
🌐 Learn More About Melissa Rodway: https://flyrodway.com/2025/07/03/travel-memoir-the-people-you-meet/
🎓 Ready to Move Abroad? Take the Course: Your Ticket Abroad — The Complete Expat Video Course https://www.auto-ethnographer.com/your-ticket-abroad-course
🎙️ More from The Auto Ethnographer: https://www.auto-ethnographer.com
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Transcript
Personalizing Travel Experiences
00:00:00
Speaker
it's important for us to humanize travel. So my advice is to listen to your kind of adventure. It doesn't have to look like everyone else's. It can be very small. It doesn't even have to involve getting on a plane, but adventure is a huge part of being alive. And I think that it's really, really important.
Introduction to The Autoethnographer
00:00:18
Speaker
The Autoethnographer, your weekly cultural trip around the world. Hello and welcome to the Auto Ethnographer. I'm your host, John Steck. Today we have a really special guest with us to speak about travel and and cultures and the book that she has authored about her experiences.
Meet Melissa Rodway: Author of 'The People You Meet'
00:00:39
Speaker
Melissa Rodway, she brings a a rare blend of curiosity and honesty and emotional intelligence with her travel memoir, The People You Meet. a book that was born from ah a life-changing trip, a journey across Southeast Asia.
00:00:56
Speaker
At 35, she left Toronto for a months-long adventure across various countries in Southeast Asia. It was backpacking, but also mixed with some unexpected luxury along the way. She discovered though something far more compelling than just the landscapes or the itineraries. It was really the profound impact of the friendships that she made, both short-term and long-term. And today we're gonna talk about Melissa's journey, her book, and those profound relationships.
From Emails to Memoir: Creating 'The People You Meet'
00:01:30
Speaker
Hi, Melissa, welcome to The Autoethnographer. Thank you, John. It's such a pleasure to be here. I appreciate it. ah It's wonderful to have you. um I appreciated our first conversation where I got some sneak previews about your experiences and also looked at some excerpts of your book.
00:01:49
Speaker
I'll make sure, of course, at the end that that your book is going to be bookmarked and linked to the show notes at the end of the ah the show. um Can you tell us a little bit more about yourself and about that journey that you took and the book that you wrote just to set the stage and then we'll talk a little bit more in detail after that.
00:02:10
Speaker
Absolutely. I've always been someone who loved adventure and travel. i i don't think I was doing anything, you know, that much different than anyone else. In my 20s, I was kind of roaming around Canada trying to find my place. And um i guess when I was in my late 20s, I fell in love with more consistent traveling. I had a nine to five job, but I was always trying to fit adventure around it and fell in love with Central America and places like that. and um and then yeah, I
00:02:47
Speaker
in my 30s it kind of really took hold for me so i was very very lucky in that I'd had a ah partner and when I was around 35 who decided he wanted to do some research on a traveling luxury travel business and we left our lives in Toronto he was from England but he was living here in Toronto we had met on a cycling trip in Cuba that's a Whole other story. and um yeah, we decided to go off on this journey together where he was going to be researching some luxury travel hotels or luxury travel, sorry, tour operators as well as some hotels, So our trip was going to be 90% backpacking, 10% luxury. And was going to be along for the ride and sort of just the plus one. And this was not uncommon for us. I mean, when we met in Cuba, he was already sort of working in these industries. So we would meet up all over the world and we knew the rhythm of what this was like for us and at our core we were always adventurers and backpackers although i think he was really starting to dive into the whole luxury world but anyways off we went on this trip and we went through thailand lao cambodia vietnam and china
00:04:10
Speaker
And for me, I knew that I would be there as long as i wanted to be.
Crafting Stories During Travel
00:04:14
Speaker
He was going to be going for much longer. And i guess when you are there not with a real purpose, you you are the plus one, it's a very different experience.
00:04:27
Speaker
And it was something that we hadn't really considered before, I don't think, because we had done these like two to three week trips in a similar fashion. But when it's months on end and you're someone with a an active creative brain it can get a little bit cagey I think so for me I needed a purpose and um when we were on these long 18 hour 36 hour bus and train rides I started creating these stories in my head about what I was seeing and doing and how I was feeling and the people that were coming our way and
00:05:02
Speaker
just anything and everything and I've always had a bit of a humorous lens to how I see the world. So once a week I would find ah an internet cafe because this is 2010. We didn't have phones or we were constantly connected and I would sit down and send out these mass emails to friends and family. who responded very positively to those and wanted more. And if I had been smarter, I would have started a blog in 2010 and I'd probably be speaking to you from a very different lens at the moment, but this is how it worked.
00:05:38
Speaker
And 15 years later, I decided to turn those emails into a story and spend some time editing them. and And that became the people you meet. So there was ah a few moments where I thought, is it this happened 15 years ago? Does anybody care?
00:05:53
Speaker
But I realized that a lot of these experiences are not um set in that time. you know These are ongoing, timeless travel experiences that we all have and observations that we make. And I also think that with some time, I was able to learn actually what i had gleaned and marinated in from those experiences. And I think it actually helped me to put out a better story in the end. so That is my um long-winded answer to your question.
00:06:25
Speaker
No, it's fantastic. I mean, just to point out, you published the book in 2025, correct? Just last year? Yes. And what what was the the actual spark, that that you know this emotional spark that told you that you were ready to to publish it at that point?
00:06:42
Speaker
There must have been something that that triggered this. It's funny because over the years i had revisited it several times and something just didn't feel like it was the right time. Maybe, you know, I had imposter syndrome or maybe I didn't have the confidence. I don't know what it was, but in 2023, I took a year off and did some traveling. And I think that when you do big things, one thing leads to the next to the next. So 2023 really big year for me.
00:07:14
Speaker
And when I came home from that, I did a stand-up comedy course. So I did a set on a comedy stage. And immediately following that, I all of a sudden picked the book up and said, it's now or never. And it was also one of those things that was constantly in the back of my head. And I knew that would never go away and I had to address it. So I had to decide either we're doing this or we're not. And I have to be at peace with either decision.
00:07:43
Speaker
And thankfully, i i did it. So here we are today talking about it. I love that. And i actually, i really love the fact that you took a stand-up comedy course. That's fantastic. Did did that career take off at all?
00:07:59
Speaker
um Well, no. However, I would certainly consider doing it again. I absolutely loved it. It really tapped into storytelling. I used a few of my travel stories that are actually in the book.
00:08:12
Speaker
And if you like to write and you like humor, it's a perfect fit. But I'm one of these people, I've just learned this term this year through these podcasts. I'm a multi-potentialite, I think that's the word. where you are always going in different directions and you cannot focus on one. So i feel when i really hone in on something, everything else falls to the sidelines. So I had to sort of put it aside to get this book out and to do all the promo, et cetera. But i i will tell you, it could happen again this year, the old comedy. I did really enjoy it.
00:08:47
Speaker
i i love that. Let me know when it does, and and I'll let the the listeners know as well. Thank you. ah diging Digging in a little bit about the the the book and the kind of cultural windows that you opened, um you you center on the book in these temporary relationships that you found on the on the road, that they were really meaningful to you. And that was really very much, I think, the the the birth of the book through that. What did you find made those more short-term or short-lived relationships so so powerful to you?
00:09:22
Speaker
I think when people travel, when you're an adventurous person, as you are as well, you are so open to whatever's coming your way and whoever is coming your way. And I think that's very different than how we live in our normal, excuse me, our normal lives where we can more or less predict who's gonna move in and out of ah our circles on a daily basis. So when you go away, i think that's,
00:09:53
Speaker
90% of the reason we do it is because of the unknown. And some people really thrive on that and in that arena. And I certainly do. So I think you have to be open to who whatever walk of life, shape, you know, country, culture, whoever is coming your way. Often these are people that you would not hang out with in regular life. Let's be honest. I've hung out with a whole cast of characters and, know,
00:10:21
Speaker
I think we all come with biases and judgments that we're not even aware of that in our normal lives, we probably would not be hanging out with these people. and that is the beauty of these adventures is that we are so open and we shed all of these silly judgments that we have.
00:10:37
Speaker
And sometimes you can feel connected to someone that you're going to spend half a day with. um or three hours with or three weeks with and you feel a connection to them that is very different than the people in our normal lives not to say that those aren't powerful relationships as well but I think you're on a different playing field I think when you're meeting like-minded people you start from a very different platform of under so of being understood and sharing things and that can go in so many different avenues and conversations and so these
00:11:13
Speaker
These temporary relationships can be huge. now They're not all wonderful, let's be honest. I've met some real
Observer vs Participant in Travel
00:11:20
Speaker
ah colorful characters that I never need to see again on the road as well. It's life everywhere. But I think there is something very special and you can learn some very powerful things from strangers.
00:11:33
Speaker
Now, when you travel like that, there's ah almost a conscious decision that you can take between being an observer of of all these different places that you see versus being a participant in in what you're seeing, you know actually stepping into the situation. um How do you navigate that tension? Because you can't, I don't think you can always be a participant and you are probably not always an observer either. There's there's a certain tension there. How how do you navigate that?
00:12:03
Speaker
I think that has changed for me over the years as I've gotten older. i think when I was younger, i probably wasn't really understanding the privilege of travel. And I think it's common. i think we go to these countries and we forget that you know the rules. I think you know it could be as simple as um taking pictures of children without permission. It could be um participating in animal tourism. It could be a whole host of things. And I think as I've gotten older, i'm much more aware of the human condition, I guess we'll call it. And I i write about this a little bit in the book about going to places where you walk away feeling like you are just at a human zoo.
00:12:59
Speaker
I can recall a couple of stories of this um in ah Vietnam was one where we were floating, we were going around through on a floating village and we had this old old woman who was mightily strong and she was probably in her 70s and was rowing us on a raft. to go around and look at people living in a water village. And I mean, certainly that's very interesting. you know i am I live on land. i'm I can't relate to like ah getting boated out to my school or being on a floating dock. And that's you know that's fascinating to see.
00:13:37
Speaker
But I had a moment where I thought, oh, my goodness, there's all these Western tourists. on these rafts just staring at these people and um I think that that's a real moment of awareness where I mean they do make some money off tourism but it's just a very awkward sometimes where somebody's life who these are sometimes the big life of struggle is on display for your entertainment or amusement and And certainly interest in in information and education as well. But I guess for me, that's where I'm at now is where I have to really think about what I'm observing, what my level of participation is, how I'm responding. um and even just to think about it. I mean, I think it's still important to see these things, but to be aware that there is an element of this. I don't know that everybody...
00:14:32
Speaker
operates like that. I've certainly seen some interesting things from other travelers and I think it's even in behaviors, you know, I was in um Bolivia not too long ago and with some influencers and that's another topic who were very rude to a server in a very remote area because they couldn't get vegan food and just Like even that sort of interaction is like you really have to check yourself out the door and realize you're not at home. So I think that's for me, it's always the respecting different cultures and realizing like if if people came into your country and acted a certain way, we would lose our minds and we would revolt and we would say things yet we go to other places and expect that we can do what we want. So I think for me, that's the boundary of participating and and taking a step back and just being aware.
00:15:28
Speaker
and I think usually that requires probably some input from from someone else. so So for example, something happens and and and so someone intervenes in that local in that local culture.
Cultural Insights from Thailand
00:15:41
Speaker
um Do you have an example in your book, for example, ah where perhaps a stranger shifted your understanding of the of the culture and and or or even of yourself? How did you have to adapt after that that moment of awareness building?
00:15:58
Speaker
Well, I think we can go down this road. I think it was for me, it was learning about the the sex industry in Thailand. If we want to go down that avenue, i spent a month in Thailand and For anyone who's traveled around Thailand, it's very um in your face in certain areas, that that world.
00:16:21
Speaker
And of course, I come in with Western values. I'm no prude by any means. But if you have even a slight um conscious bone in your body, it's going to impact you, especially as a ah woman.
00:16:36
Speaker
And then I did speak with some locals in certain areas who gave me a very different view on all of this saying, you know, this is a way of life here. this is and I'm not generalizing. So I'm no authority on this. So this is just my my experience. But. um you know And just sort of teaching me you know the way that you, your culture and your country and your side of the world views this is not how we view it. And so you have to kind of leave your values aside. And some of these families actually have
00:17:12
Speaker
relationships and connections with people that participate in this in this industry and it keeps our family in survival mode. And so that was a ah moment where i had to sort of check myself and and, you know, we all walk into these countries sometimes thinking our values are the best values and it's so wrong. And it is very important to sometimes be schooled on where you are and what it's like for them. so I think that probably stands out to me the most on this. But um I know we spoke in an earlier conversation about this really incredible documentary called The Last Tourist, and I won't ramble too much about it, but I did actually learn quite a lot from that documentary about
00:17:55
Speaker
even teaching English overseas and the impact of that on children who get attached to you and then you leave them. And we often do these things because we feel better. It doesn't always mean the place you're visiting feels better and reaps rewards from it. So just so much to think about, I think, in in all of these sort of travel behaviors. Yeah.
00:18:20
Speaker
No, as as you know, of course, I live in Bangkok, Thailand, and um I can really echo what you experienced and what you learned. I've asked the same questions and and i think I got very much the the same answer about oh the, let's say, more more career or money earning opportunity and job opportunity, which can't be replicated necessarily you know out far in the countryside.
00:18:50
Speaker
Yes, exactly. Exactly. So Southeast Asia, it's incredibly diverse. And as I just said, I i live in in Thailand, and I see something new and learn something new every single day, which cultural difference maybe surprised you the most? And and how did you adapt to that one?
00:19:12
Speaker
That's a really good question because i live in Canada and a lot of my travel seems to often be in Central or South America because I absolutely love that part of the world.
00:19:25
Speaker
But it's still part of the Americas, you know, it can be very, very different. But I think when you're North America, South America, Central America, there's something that's still a little bit familiar, whereas I found Southeast Asia to be completely different.
00:19:41
Speaker
I would say in that time that I was away, China was the country that probably threw me off the most, um just because it seemed vastly different from anything else i had other ah I had ever seen or done. And I guess there it was um just even lining up for things. There was no rhyme, no reason. And very crowded and ah we were two you know fairly tall white people often in rural China where we became you know the subjects and that was interesting too because when you're traveling you're always looking at people and I would say in places like Thailand, Vietnam, even Cambodia they're very used to travelers now in most places not everywhere there's some rural parts where
00:20:33
Speaker
I don't think a lot of travelers are going, but China in some of the areas that we went into, we were very much on display and the cameras were in our faces constantly. And, and that was interesting too, you know, when you flip the script and you go from being the, the watcher to the watched. And, but I think the one, the two person human zoo,
00:20:58
Speaker
Yes, we were definitely the human zoo. I mean, this happened to us a lot We would be on trains in the middle of nowhere and wake up in the morning to like seven or eight children on my bunk bed with me, just looking at me and watching my every move. And everywhere we went, we just had, you know, cameras and questions and and and all of that, which, you know, takes a little bit of getting used to as well when you're as a traveler always trying to be under the radar but anyway i would say that being in that country was the most um adjustment I had to make to behaviors and again it could be anything from lineups to buy tickets to getting on a train to using the bathroom to whatever it was it was just like mayhem and a lot of
00:21:49
Speaker
loud talking and um yeah and just a different way of interacting with people that was very different for me um so a very very beautiful country but I would say that was the one where I had to really like every day I felt like I was learning a new way of how to survive in China with just general behavior have you been i have not um yeah i I was planning to go this spring, in fact, this month, but I i have pushed that off
Asian Hospitality and Social Norms
00:22:22
Speaker
again. um
00:22:23
Speaker
I've traveled through most of the other Southeast Asian countries, but from what I have learned with um speaking directly with with Chinese counterparts, it's really different. And with its very my various friends and colleagues who have worked there in the past, it's it's really different. But but one thing... um that seems to transcend all of these cultures throughout Asia is this sense of hospitality and kind of a generosity and and and and a social norms that's that's more open to to visitors, I think. um
00:22:59
Speaker
Is there anything that you experienced in any of the countries, if you have one or two examples, that that really made an impact on you that you ended up taking back home with you with regards to you know generosity or hospitality?
00:23:14
Speaker
I think that's a really interesting question about most places that you go to and certainly countries where there may be a lower socioeconomic situation. I've always found that the people who have the least are the most generous and the most kind to you. And that's something that I i know, but when it happens, it still overwhelms me every time.
00:23:43
Speaker
I do remember being in Cambodia in Battenbang, which I'm sure you've probably been to. It's where you can ride that crazy bamboo train that feels like you're going to die, but it's really exciting.
00:23:56
Speaker
And we ended up hanging out with a local guy there for a couple of days who, he was a tour guide. I mean, it was just us with him. He was our own private guide, but There was something about him, like his smile was just like a megawatt smile. And we went into his house. We had dinner with his family. They taught us how to cook three different meals. He took us around to various parts of the Cambodian countryside.
00:24:27
Speaker
And his English wasn't great, but there was there's just something about you just trust. you know we we don't trust people as much in our regular worlds, but when you travel, you have to trust or else you're going to have a pretty boring time and you kind of have to throw caution to the wind, right? And you're always putting your lives in the hands of strangers.
00:24:52
Speaker
And i I think it's that, that i always come home feeling energized by connections with people that are kind, generous people who really don't have a lot to offer in so many ways, but just by their kindness and their and they're letting you into their lives.
00:25:12
Speaker
is is really powerful because I don't feel we live like that in North America. I feel we're very you know insular and protective and afraid sometimes to to be this way. in other parts of the world, this is just not how they operate. they're just um Their kindness is in abundance. and And that is always mind-blowing to me. Right. And in abundance and also very, very spontaneous. Right. I was going for an evening walk in on the outskirts of Hanoi, Vietnam a few years ago, and I was working there. And there was a ah family had set up this kind of dinner outside on the...
00:25:56
Speaker
on on a table and had some chairs on the sidewalk. and And I was literally just walking by with my exercise clothing on. and They were really insistent for me to sit down and and and share some food and and have a beer with them. so i did that. Of course, I had to walk a little bit further for my exercise after that. ah Worth it always, right? Absolutely worth it. You can't stop. You can't deny that.
00:26:21
Speaker
No, that's amazing. Yeah, I had a similar thing. i was in, um gosh, Laos, I think, and got sidetracked one day with this woman who's a whole other story. And a couple of us were in a very, very remote village. And we got stuck in a lightning and thunderstorm and had to wait it out. And it was kind of the same thing as what you're saying. This family just said,
00:26:46
Speaker
come and take shelter hang out with us they couldn't speak a lot of english or any i don't think but anyway it's just still that people looking out for people is so powerful it's it's really um reminds us how kindness is very important yeah yeah no that's that's truly powerful and um i think you You just feel very human and and vulnerable when when you travel because you are definitely in a different land and in ah and you're a guest of of that land.
00:27:21
Speaker
Absolutely. But speaking of reminders, um when you actually started opening your old emails and and rereading them,
00:27:32
Speaker
it it must have been a little bit like opening up a time capsule after 15 years. I'm sure that that that brought back um you know some real emotions and and thoughts that after you read read them again 15 years later. Absolutely. What was that like?
00:27:50
Speaker
and yeah you know First of all, I'm surprised that anybody has an email address for that long, 15 years, that you can actually get those emails back. Well, I don't have that email address anymore, thank goodness, but I had saved everything. So, um yes.
00:28:06
Speaker
ah You asked a very good question, in it was not easy, I will tell you. I mean, some of it was really fun, because it's a really funny book, and it's very honest, and i don't pull any punches, and I love to use humor in my storytelling. So, It was funny. But yes, it's not always easy to revisit a past life like that. But I will say that it also felt like yesterday. i mean, life goes fast, as we know, but as well, things feel like they just happened 30 seconds ago. So it was kind of fun to revisit that. And yeah.
00:28:43
Speaker
I think more importantly, and I can't remember if I've already mentioned this in this interview, but it's also realizing what an experience taught you. i think in the moment you can very easily fire things off to people. Today I did this and this happened and this happened. and But you're often in survival mode when you're traveling. I think everyone who doesn't travel thinks that you're having one epiphany after another and maybe there's the odd epiphany but for the most part you're just trying to get through the day in one piece I find and there's really no time to have epiphanies and but when you look at something you did so long ago you start to realize the lessons and
00:29:29
Speaker
the value of what happened. I'm 15 years older, so I might see it differently, even though I i still wrote it through my 35 year old lens. There's so much i actually learned from looking at this later that I didn't realize was happening in the moment. So that was pretty interesting as well.
00:29:48
Speaker
yeah I was actually going to ask you about that, about use the word epiphanies. I was going to ask about interpretations, but, um, How ah is there one that
Purpose and Travel Fatigue
00:30:00
Speaker
stood out something that you didn't really consider think about 15 years ago that that somehow now it just makes sense after 15 years?
00:30:11
Speaker
Several things. I think one is that I discovered the need to travel with purpose and that purpose can be, for me, it was writing. So when you're with somebody who has a reason to be on the road, as my partner did, it's very different for the person who's just the tag along. And I don't know if I was even old enough at 35 to put words to that. It was just a feeling that was...
00:30:40
Speaker
tense and anxious and I it probably caused some disagreements for us on the road but as a 51 year old i now say oh I needed something I needed my own thing and that's how those emails came to be so now I travel with purpose whatever that might be it might be just for exercise and a hiking or cycling trip but I cannot just go and hang out in a place anymore that's that's over. And I think that was what was happening for me at that time. The other major thing that happened for me was I met a woman on that trip who talked to me about knowing when it was time to go home.
00:31:21
Speaker
And we were together in Northern Laos, everything seemed to happen in Laos on this trip, I think. um And I just, we were we were trying to buy tickets to get on a boat to take us to a village up the river.
00:31:37
Speaker
And she was talking away to me about I don't know what, and she was very well traveled, this woman. I've never met anyone like her before or since. She was just one of those unicorns. And she stopped talking and she looked at these two girls who were in their 20s and they had backpacks on. And she said, they must go home. This trip is over for them. They have to leave.
00:32:01
Speaker
And I had no idea what she was talking about. So then we had this amazing conversation about travel ego and travel fatigue and no knowing when it's time to go home. And that has stuck with me forever because I ran into that myself after four months on this trip that I wrote about. I was done.
00:32:21
Speaker
And if I hadn't had that conversation with her, I probably would have felt badly about myself, that I wasn't tough enough, that not. other other people were out there longer than I was and thank goodness that she'd spoken to me about it and we're all built differently we all have a different bandwidth for whatever it is that we're doing no one is better than the other but there is there is a bit of that out there on the road where it's like well I've been here for eight months well I've been here for 11 and I have this many stamps and I've done this and It's so silly and I think it's more common than anyone talks about, but you have to know what is best for you. And so now having experienced that myself, I am always very aware of travel fatigue and how long I can handle being away and and that that's okay. And it's it's it's the best thing for everyone as well as the country you're visiting that you should not be there if you should not be there. Like it's time to go and no one needs to be on the wrath of a miserable traveler.
00:33:29
Speaker
Right. No, i I definitely understand what you're saying. I used to have these chain trips throughout Latin America from ah from a professional perspective. um you You said that you wrote the the book through the eyes of a 35-year-old, but does the wisdom and the experience and the perspective that you have today, does that bleed through?
00:33:52
Speaker
um Yes. Through the the eyes of this 35-year-old into the book? Well, i tried to I tried to keep it as much to that 35-year-old as possible because that was the story at the time. i would say that there might be a little bit of my current wisdom, which although I'm not that much wiser, but maybe a little bit. interjected in there, but I would say it's what's come after the book that um has taught me actually about that time. i think putting something out into the world is a very interesting experience because this was your lens. This is your story.
00:34:37
Speaker
And then it changes when other people start reading it. I've had many people come to me and tell me things they got out of it that I had no idea. I didn't see it coming. And I think it's it's it's the what I just talked to you about. It's the... um The travel ego, the knowing when it's time to come home, the travel with purpose. I don't think I knew that writing that book. I think I learned it from writing the book. I i don't think I knew it at the time, but I think in editing it, it I figured it out. But um I still just tried to to be that 35 year old person because that was how it was meant to be. But my next book will include what I learned from the first book.
00:35:19
Speaker
Good, I was gonna ask if there's gonna be a sequel. So it's good to know. There will be. I need more time. Don't we all need more time? Yes, yes. I could use 48 hours of the day. Yes, exactly.
00:35:32
Speaker
So speaking of of kind of growing like like like that, um ah from from the experience, you know culturally, emotionally, or relationally, you know how did that change you?
00:35:46
Speaker
you know You have this Canadian woman looking, observing, participating in these different cultures throughout Southeast Asia. And certainly this left an imprint on you that you took back and and and probably it it changed a little bit your view of of your home country. I know I experienced that personally myself, looking differently in my home country after experiencing other cultures.
00:36:10
Speaker
And is there anything that you feel that that profoundly changed inside of you, the the way that you look at your own society now?
Lessons from Cambodia
00:36:18
Speaker
I feel that we certainly live a life of privilege and i feel we take it for granted. I felt like this anytime I've been away, to be honest. i I have a really strong memory of being in Nicaragua at one point where the grocery stores barely had anything in it and then coming back to Toronto and walking in somewhere where...
00:36:45
Speaker
the abundance and the ridiculous volume of things in our grocery stores that is probably going to waste at all times was really upsetting to me. So I think there's very stark examples and and things like that.
00:37:02
Speaker
But I feel like on this trip in the book, Cambodia really got into my system. And the reason for that was that I had Not known the history of Cambodia, I'm embarrassed to say, but I have a feeling a lot of people don't know it in entirety.
00:37:23
Speaker
So being in Cambodia and learning about what had happened in the 70s with Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge. um really, really was a big moment for me. Also, I'd had a friend in Canada, in Toronto, who was born there in 1977, and he had ah survived. he His family had escaped to a Thai refugee camp for many, many years where they ate garbage and survived somehow, and all of them came to Canada. no one was left behind. And i think that seeing, you know, the the sites that you get to see there, the killing fields and the prisons and all of these things um was very, very challenging because I could could personalize it with a friend who had lived it and had never spoken of it. had not once mentioned it. And that was what I learned about Cambodian people. They have been through hell and back and they are resilient and they're very funny and they have this magical quality about them and and could could be just really negative awful people if they wanted to be they have every right to be with it's not that long ago that they lived through all this stuff and look I'm not this happens all over the world I'm I am not ignorant to the fact that's happening as we speak But I guess just seeing and being embraced by this country um really left an impact on me. And I just felt like, gosh, you know, in Canada, why do we ever complain about anything? You know, and we all walk around grumpy and big cities and life's hard and blah, you know. And then when you just see a country that has rebuilt itself and just, I don't know, just keeps going and is generous. And um I think it was that just seeing that really impacted how I felt coming home and but how I treated people about, you know, what, what, I mean, we all have to be realistic about our complaints, but when you see other countries, you just go, oh my goodness, you know, we're very lucky.
00:39:41
Speaker
I think it goes back to what you said before, that that the most downtrodden yes often have the biggest smiles. Totally, totally. I had a person on my radio show years ago. He rode his bike from China to Canada. He'd been living in China for many, many years and he wanted to come home. So he rode over two years through 40 some odd countries obviously had to take a plane at one point. And he wrote a book called The Power of Saying Hello. And his message was that all you need to do with people is smile and say hi, and everything changes. And it's so true. I've even seen it. I was doing a lot of book fairs and tours in the last year. And you watch people, they walk by and they look miserable. And the second you say hello to them, they're like a different person.
00:40:34
Speaker
and for him, he was going to countries that we would often be very afraid to go to due to what we see in the media. These were the countries that gave him the most, you know, sheltered him, fed him with whatever they could. fixed his bike, helped him get on the road. i mean, it's just human, that human connection is very powerful.
00:40:57
Speaker
yeah incredibly so. Incredibly so. have a ah kind of hypothetical question to ask you. um If you took that same trip now, how do you think your experience would be different? um And your writing, frankly, would it be, thats you think it would be different?
00:41:17
Speaker
I don't think I've changed that much. I certainly drink a lot less. When I wrote, when I edited that book, I was like, how am I still alive? But um anyway, ah I'm not that different, but maybe a bit more aware. And I think, you know, I'm in my 50s now. So i think you go through the world differently. When you're 35, you know, you have a confidence that's very different than you have in your fifty s So I think in that way, I feel I might be different, but um I'm not that I'm fairly similar to that same person, just a slightly more aware and someone who needs to go to bed a little bit earlier. But yeah.
00:42:00
Speaker
It would be very interesting to go back there. And I think too, you know, i was with my partner. We were very, you know, we had jumped in the backseat of many cars that we probably shouldn't have. I don't know that I'm that person anymore. You know, I'm a bit more, my life's little bit important. going to ask you, how has your travel changed now versus 2010 when you travel throughout Latin America?
00:42:24
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. I think I'm maybe a little bit more, you know, cautious. but But still, I mean, I still think that you you're still putting your faith into the hands of strangers. i think that will never change for me. i think that's part of the fun and the beauty and the unexpected places of brilliance, you know? So, um but yeah, maybe I'm doing less of...
00:42:47
Speaker
strange men driving me around that I've never met. what What advice would would you give to someone then? i mean, you just gave some advice, maybe reconsidered having strange men drive you around. Is there any other advice that you would give to someone that would would take a long term trip to Southeast Asia or to Latin America for that for that sake?
00:43:09
Speaker
I think for me it's ah always just to listen to to yourself and um and to not compare yourself
Pursuing Personal Adventures
00:43:19
Speaker
to anyone else. I think we're in a very strange world of due to social media. Social media is wonderful and social media is awful terrible. And there's a lot of people out there that look perfect and fabulous and beautiful and they have all the gear and it doesn't look like they sweat and they have the perfect photos. And I think that that's a real crime because that's not what it's like.
00:43:41
Speaker
And I think that deters people from going out to do these things because they don't look like that. And so I try to be very real and very transparent. I'm not a model. I'm a very normal person. I lead a very normal life. I've just managed to put some adventure around it. And I think that it's important for us to humanize travel. So my advice is to listen to your kind of adventure. It doesn't have to look like everyone else's. It can be very small. It doesn't even have to involve getting on a plane. But adventure is a huge part of being alive. And I think that it's really, really important. So, um choose your own adventure, as they as they say, and listen to yourself. And when you know something doesn't feel right, then it doesn't feel right. You don't have to justify it
00:44:30
Speaker
No, I think you're absolutely right. And i think it's travel is addictive. once Once you have a small amount and you explore one new place and then you you just feel this urge or compulsion to continue doing that and see new places. What's what's on your agenda next? what's ah Are there any particular cultures or or regions of the world that you feel that you need to explore next, yeah either as a traveler or as a writer?
00:44:59
Speaker
I have never been to any countries in Africa, so I have to deal with that. that i would I mean, I can't wait. i want to I want to get that on my radar for this year for sure. But I have to say that um I'm a late bloomer to Europe.
00:45:15
Speaker
So I'm really enjoying traveling around Europe these days. i think i I did harder things when I was younger, but now I'm like, oh, Europe is fun and it's easy.
00:45:28
Speaker
but it's so beautiful. There's so much to do there, but yes, I mean, i think you do one trip and your list extends by 10. there's much of the world I still haven't seen for sure.
00:45:40
Speaker
Right. think my, my daughter who was recently here in Thailand for five weeks and traveling quite a bit around the country, I think she was already picking out the next place on her agenda, which happened to be, I think in, in Latin America.
00:45:55
Speaker
Oh, Latin America is the best. It's so much fun. And it's funny how some places you go and you just instantly feel like you belong there. And some places are lovely, but you don't feel that instant connection. But for me, Latin America is always se feels like a second home. So I really, really love that part of the world.
00:46:15
Speaker
Yeah, I can certainly identify with that. I spent four years traveling extensively around. so Nice. I think as we as we wrap up, um is there any, let's say, final you know advice or something you'd like to impart on our listeners that that you know really comes from from the heart about your travel and experiencing different cultures around the world?
00:46:41
Speaker
Yeah, I think just be open and be kind. think I've said this probably too many times in this interview. I don't want to sound repetitive, but I have also traveled with people who don't let that guard down and can be rude to people in the service industry and hospitality industry.
00:46:59
Speaker
And i I really struggle with that because why are you there? So my message is always to be very kind and to be open. And you did ask a question earlier about what comes back with you. What am I like at home? And I think that's one thing. I mean...
00:47:14
Speaker
I work in a building in Toronto and I've always taken the time to get to know the security guard and the caretaker and because they have stories and they're interesting and we can be very narrow-minded in our Western lives. And I think when you travel, you You really are aware of all the different people that make up this world. So my advice is to be extremely kind and grateful that you're even there and you just don't know who's coming along your path. So i would say that.
00:47:47
Speaker
And again, i think we live in a time where traveling's never been easier. due to the internet, which is a double-edged sword. But for women who are still apprehensive, I mean, it's the safest time ever to get around. So I say go for it. There's nothing anymore that should hold anybody back.
00:48:08
Speaker
No, that's great. Very, very motivational. um I fully agree. And um I you know live overseas from from my home country, from the United States, and every day is an adventure. It's maybe different than travel because I'm in my daily life, so to speak. And you adapt over time as you you know as you live in ah in a different culture over a longer period of time. But um your your advice is fantastic. um I think with that, Melissa, I think I'm going to close the episode. I really want to thank you for your time and for sharing about your book. I'll make sure that the link to your book and to your website is in the show notes so that people can find it and hopefully order their copy.
00:48:55
Speaker
Great. Well, thank you. I've really enjoyed our conversation, John. It was amazing. Could talk to you for hours, I'm sure. i think so. Hopefully you may get back to Thailand sometime. Then we can we can chat about it in person. That would be awesome. And now they have ah grab and bolt motorbikes. So you you know at least you know who the person is sitting in front of you driving you through the scene. I like that. Great. All right. Well, thank you very much to the listeners for tuning in this week. um It was great to have Melissa Rodway here talking about her book, The People You Meet. And next week, we'll be back.
00:49:32
Speaker
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00:49:47
Speaker
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00:50:02
Speaker
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