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Episode 442: KICKED OUT! DARKEST DAY IN CLUB'S HISTORY?
318 Plays25 days ago
Southampton – We waited with baited breath for the EFL's decision, and then the hammer fell.... Not a lot of positive emotions on today's show but plenty to talk about.
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Transcript
Introduction to Daily Saints Podcast
00:00:13
DailySaintsPod
Hello and welcome back to the Daily Saints pod. My name is Greg and once again today joined by my good friend and wonderful co-host Zach.
Southampton's Expulsion from Playoffs
00:00:23
DailySaintsPod
Uh, and mate, we, the tagline of this show for at least in recent memory has been what a time to see a be a saints fan. And today we've seen that go from uh, a wonderful slogan of joy to a true epitome of despair because what a time to be a saints fan indeed, as the, the ruling comes through, uh,
00:00:50
DailySaintsPod
Shall we just get straight into it, mate?
00:00:53
Zak
Yeah.
00:00:55
DailySaintsPod
but let's Let's get the the factual part out of the way first, and then, as I'm sure you will all come to expect from this show, we have lots and lots of opinions, and we will bring them to the forefront. so of course, unless you have been living under a rock, you will have seen that the EFL today released their statement,
00:01:17
DailySaintsPod
as the outcome of the Independent Disciplinary Commission, who have to today expelled Southampton from the Skybet Championship playoffs after the club admitted to multiple breaches of EFL regulations related to the unauthorised filming of other clubs' training.
00:01:31
DailySaintsPod
In addition to this, the club has received a four-point deduction that will be applied next season alongside a reprimand in respect of all the charges. They have reinstated Middlesbrough to play in the playoff final, which will still take place on Saturday.
00:01:46
DailySaintsPod
and we've come to understand that Southampton have appealed the charge, and all of the appeals have a deadline to be, uh, dealt with and discussed by tomorrow, Wednesday, the 20th of May, which it does say could result in a further change to Saturday's fixture.
Club's Silence and Accountability
00:02:06
DailySaintsPod
The EFL is now in discussion with all three clubs regarding the implications of today's decision and will make further announcement in due course.
00:02:15
DailySaintsPod
and And that's that's that. I would put here the rebuttal and response that the Southampton Football Club have come out with with the force of this news, but two and a half hours after it broke on ITV and and then very quickly everywhere else, still radio silence across the board from them. So don't know, mate. I mean, look, I feel like
00:02:43
DailySaintsPod
I feel like I should start with the important bit before we get to what is on undoubtedly going to be a a winding twist of various opinions on different fronts. And, you know, the honest fact of the matter is that the club has nobody to blame but itself for this, right? It's not...
00:03:06
DailySaintsPod
Whether you agree with the severity of the sanction or not, which I'm sure we will get to, you know, admitting to at least three breaches of the EFL rules, what what more can you expect?
00:03:24
Zak
let me Let me paint a picture for you, Greg. let me Let me paint this
Emotional Impact on Fans
00:03:28
Zak
picture for you. So I've been in the office today with yourself. we We chatted throughout the day, kind of on tender hooks.
00:03:38
Zak
After you know trying to get wedding tickets, i'm managed to get them. I booked a hotel. Tentatively, similar way to the fact that you know you' you got the tickets but booked parking.
00:03:50
Zak
And I think that mainly it's because I've always had faith that, you know, the character of the club has always been, you know, pretty good. And I thought, yeah, surely this is, if it if it's happened, it's because of the the occasion. Everything's got a little bit desperate.
00:04:04
Zak
So get home from work. I arrive home, with sort of chill out this evening, eat dinner, et cetera, et cetera. And of all people, all people to break the news to me,
00:04:17
Zak
And she rushed, rushed to break this news, was my sister-in-law. Now, my family background, like my my wife is from sort of, not the Portsmouth area, but Portsmouth were their local club, right? And, you know, stepfather...
00:04:34
Zak
Her dad and man, all very sort of like, you know, not really football-y people, but if they had a club, it would be Pompey. So she just absolutely lapped up. She was like, oh, you've got to turn on the news. And I was like, we've not seen anything. I started looking over social media. i was like, no, no, no.
00:04:47
Zak
Turn on the news. And that that that is how I discovered... And then obviously, I think I went through the initial stages of grief, as we all did, which is like, oh, this is ridiculous. It's so disproportionate. You know, you can't believe it. This is crazy. And and even ridiculous things, right? So Southwestern Railway have put on four services an hour from Saturday to deal with the influx. You've got 2,000 tickets being given out yesterday, the infrastructure side of it. None of this is painted in the EFL in a good light. But like you start going for these things, you think it's nuts. And then all of a sudden,
00:05:18
Zak
you read the facts that you've just stated them, Greg, which is, oh, okay, so it's not just Middlesbrough. It is more than once. it's It's three times we've admitted to, and that's because, what, three clubs are the ones that have submitted evidence?
00:05:31
Zak
And on top of that, there are three games we lost.
00:05:31
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:05:34
Zak
We didn't even win the games!
00:05:36
DailySaintsPod
Yeah, that was really a like moment of hard hit for me, where I saw the post from Match of the Day that so supposedly the the three we've admitted were Ipswich, Middlesbrough and Oxford.
00:05:49
DailySaintsPod
And of course, we drew with Ipswich, drew with Middlesbrough in the first leg and lost to Oxford. So not only were we breaking EFL rules to spy and gain a sporting advantage, we weren't even doing it well.
00:06:05
Zak
So what's even worse with this is that now I don't like to think of conspiracy theories. At least that's how I felt before we recorded this episode, how I felt most of today and how I've put faith in it not being some sort of horrible, big, long term operation that's apparently been in place since, I don't know, the last manager we have got fired, maybe?
00:06:26
Zak
Who knows? Again, I don't want to be... I'm not being... like I don't want to be done for libel or litigious. I've already seen Adam Backman. We'll have to sort of be careful about that kind of stuff. But what i will say is that it's weird that we've, like, admitted to the ones where we lost, didn't it?
00:06:39
Zak
Because it makes us look like, well, we cheated, but we still lost, so we didn't get that much of an advantage. It almost feels like...
00:06:44
DailySaintsPod
Yeah,
Motivations Behind EFL's Decision
00:06:44
DailySaintsPod
that felt like it it feels easy to read into that, that they may have been part of the defense.
00:06:45
Zak
How many others?
00:06:50
DailySaintsPod
And, you know, you saw some you saw some stuff where it was, like, hopeful that maybe admitting to them through goodwill would also show that
00:06:50
Zak
Well, it's a bit of a... It's a bit of a weird thing, isn't it? That they seem to be around...
00:07:02
DailySaintsPod
You know, it wasn't just Middlesbrough that would need some sort of remuneration. But I think I think i said it pretty early on.
00:07:09
Zak
he did
00:07:09
DailySaintsPod
The EFL couldn't care less about remunerating Middlesbrough or anybody else.
00:07:12
Zak
Oddly.
00:07:13
DailySaintsPod
The case, in its simplicity, was was the EFL versus Southampton. And, you know, they've...
00:07:19
Zak
You actually said it as a joke, mate, that it might actually be better that we admit to more charges because it shows that, hey, we weren't...
00:07:20
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:07:25
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:07:26
Zak
And, like, we laughed at that, but I think deep down both me and you genuinely thought, well, surely surely we have more character than that. like And I guess where if it looks like a pig, it sings like a pig, and it smells like a pig, it's a pig.
00:07:42
Zak
Like, I don't... I'm just...
00:07:44
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:07:45
Zak
I just...
00:07:46
Zak
It's just, man
00:07:47
DailySaintsPod
look abe Alfie House has come out literally whilst we've been recording.
00:07:52
DailySaintsPod
and said that he believes he's heard that CEO Phil Parsons has communicated directly to all Saints staff this evening via an internal email stating that the legal team remain confident in the strength of their position ahead of the appeal tomorrow, but for now preparations for Saturday to go ahead as normal.
00:08:09
DailySaintsPod
I mean, how can they? How could that possibly be? is an appeal really going to...
00:08:12
Zak
but's what so So that's what Alfie has said, right?
00:08:15
DailySaintsPod
yeah
00:08:16
Zak
That's what Alfie has said. Where's the statement from the club to the fans?
00:08:19
DailySaintsPod
100%. I fully agree with that.
00:08:20
Zak
Sorry.
00:08:21
DailySaintsPod
But also, like what what evidence could they possibly present in an appeal tomorrow that they didn't decide to put forward today?
00:08:27
Zak
We've admitted to cheating three times. Three. This isn't like a one-off thing.
00:08:31
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:08:32
Zak
This isn't an analyst that's randomly walked out. This isn't... and You know, we've been looking at all the rumors all week. We've tried to stay away from them. The reason that we haven't done a podcast yesterday... It's because after we did our little like little spell of loan on loans where we tried to keep away from it, it's just been, I'm not to lie, being a content creator in the Salampton space currently is horrible.
00:08:52
Zak
I have watched a bunch of like like different places, Sharp Shop, and do you know what? I don't blame them in the slightest because, quite frankly, i have had more text messages in the last two to three hours of my life than I have on my wedding day.
00:09:05
Zak
look That is how you had to mute group chats.
00:09:06
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:09:09
Zak
It is absolutely insane. It is... And none of this is our fault. None of this is the players' fault. I know that they haven't exactly covered themselves in glory, but in a similar way to the fact that, you know, we've had to embrace the binoculars thing, they've had to as well, probably as a defence mechanism.
00:09:25
Zak
And now, you know, we were thinking about post-season content, talking about our favourite players in series.
00:09:26
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:09:31
Zak
We don't know what our podcast looks like, at least for the next couple of weeks, because what is there to talk about? Because all of it, all of it feels horrifically tainted. I've...
00:09:40
DailySaintsPod
Massively. it's it's not just It's not just tainted for me the season.
00:09:45
DailySaintsPod
And it's tricky, right? Because like sporting advantage from spying or not, you don't win or you don't go on an unbeaten streak as long as we have without the commitment and effort from the players.
00:09:58
DailySaintsPod
And you have to look at that. But it's just completely... Yeah, they have been let down as much as it's been completely tainted.
00:10:02
Zak
They've been let down as much as us, in my opinion.
00:10:06
DailySaintsPod
Not just the season, but just the the club as a whole. I'm finding it very difficult to consolidate. And and yeah, like to even if the...
00:10:17
DailySaintsPod
Here's the thing. like the The biggest factor in my mind is that they're never going to kick us out because of the logistical consequences.
00:10:23
Zak
you
00:10:25
DailySaintsPod
But clearly they have seen it as... as as, you know, her enough, consequence enough that that's what they need to do to take that hit. And it doesn't make them look good to, you know, have all of this faff going back and forward three days before the game, let's be honest. Their biggest money-making game of the season, right? It's not going to do with them any favours.
00:10:46
DailySaintsPod
So they've obviously felt strong enough about it to actively push for it and get it. So just don't see an appeal. i don't see what evidence we could bring an appeal that would make them switch it back.
00:10:56
DailySaintsPod
And like, I understand it's all bureaucracy and legalese, but it's just, it's just sad in it.
00:11:03
Zak
I think I sort of saw a comment that summed up for me, which is even if we get reinstated, how many of us still want to go
00:11:04
DailySaintsPod
It's just really, really sad.
00:11:11
Zak
How do you feel personally? Would you still go if they reinstated tomorrow? i know you've got your tickets and i you but you know you're looking to book parking. How would you feel about it? Because I genuinely am at this point, I don't know if I want if i want to go all the way, trudge all the way to London, you know get I've got a hotel, but I guess I'm going to have to cancel probably. but if we get reinstated and we've cheated three times and we've admitted to that,
00:11:37
DailySaintsPod
o
00:11:37
Zak
And it just feels gross. if It feels grim. There's no no communication with the club.
00:11:41
DailySaintsPod
oh over that
00:11:43
Zak
I'm like, ugh.
00:11:43
DailySaintsPod
I would absolutely go because the the people that will be there to cheer on and the people that deserve the recognition of the hard work they've put in are not the same people that have made these decisions.
00:11:57
DailySaintsPod
right like None of the players have gone, oh yeah, we should send we should send Will up to Middlesbrough. That would be a good laugh. like it's just it's not It's not the same thing. It's it's very hard to separate. and the The consequences for the club, you know whatever happens, are going to be...
00:12:16
DailySaintsPod
astronomical, I think. But, you know, yeah, if they reinstate us, I'll go and I'll cheer the boys on. But it will still be tainted. It's not going to be the same as last time. It's not going to be an excitement.
00:12:27
DailySaintsPod
I'm not going to be absolutely buzzing if we win and ready to go and have a celebration in the fan zone and and celebrate with the team.
00:12:34
Zak
i
00:12:36
DailySaintsPod
It's it's just completely completely overshadowed by by all of it. and And whoever at the club has sanctioned it, I hope to never be part of the club again.
00:12:48
DailySaintsPod
Whether it was Tonda or not, I kind of feel like even if it wasn't Tonda, the unfortunate position of being the manager is that that's probably where the the fault will end up lying, whether it was him or not, but
00:13:01
Zak
I was speaking to my friend James beforehand, as I've spoken to quite a lot of people tonight. So I've had to explain to, you know, one of my best mates, what this even means, because he just sent me a screenshot going, guessing this isn't good news. I'm like, no, but, but James, a friend of mine who is, is very switched on when it comes to football. And he was, he texted me almost immediately after the initial, you know, the, both the semifinal wins and,
00:13:31
Zak
his kind of... My back and forth with him around it was kind of like, well, was talking about, like, if Tonda knew, and it's like, he obviously just hit the nail in head, but, like, surely he knew, right?
00:13:42
Zak
And surely he'll be going if that's the case. And it's almost like you don't want to...
00:13:45
DailySaintsPod
like I mean, its it's hard for me, right?
00:13:46
Zak
yeah yeah
00:13:47
DailySaintsPod
i can I can fully see a world where I don't know what the structure of his backroom staff is like.
00:13:51
Zak
You don't know, but like...
00:13:53
DailySaintsPod
And if they've got, you know, if they've got, that you know, he wants to build a team of independents, the head analyst or whatever could quite easily have sent his intern off to whatever location to give him the best analytics without letting Tonda know.
00:14:07
Zak
Would he question... but he Would he not question the source of any of the information he's got? This is the tactics that we think Middlesbrough are going play next week.
00:14:14
Zak
Yeah, okay, cool.
00:14:14
DailySaintsPod
Because it's so it's so easily construed, isn't it?
00:14:17
DailySaintsPod
It's so easily tied up with, I've watched this backlog of games and concluded this, where actually what you've ended up concluding is something that you've sort of peaked at training session.
00:14:27
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:14:29
DailySaintsPod
but Because honestly, it's such it's such a minimal edge that I can possibly...
00:14:29
Zak
You're right.
00:14:29
Zak
We don't know, you but it's just...
Disappointment and Emotional Fallout
00:14:34
DailySaintsPod
That's the really even more frustrating part, right?
00:14:36
Zak
Pathetic thing.
00:14:37
DailySaintsPod
It's that it's such a such a stupid thing to have put our entire season, our entire season and potentially our entire club at risk.
00:14:44
Zak
There is so fetch me much footage that you can go back and watch of previous games available.
00:14:56
Zak
i just I just... This is the thing. and It's the fact that I can't imagine the character of him. And it's like and I guess what feels really gross is because we don't know what's going on. It's almost like, do we know...
00:15:10
Zak
you know We don't know how deep this goes. We don't know how across the board this is. How much of it's tainted? How much of it is has been won? off of you know I don't think that any of Shea Charles' wonder goals were you know a result of some crazy tactical planning.
00:15:27
Zak
But if there was sort of cheating going on behind to put us in the right formation to be able to get those chances away, you know, we've had some of the most incredible games. The comeback against Leicester is now going to be tainted and tarred with this brush because it's like, well, who knows if we spied on them?
00:15:42
Zak
I can't say whether or not we have because we've admitted to the things that we have basically been caught doing, not the things that might have gone on under the table. And I know that people might say, oh, well, it might be other clubs and it's disproportionate, but it's just... It's just gross. It's so disgusting and grim that we are now just going to have this.
00:16:02
Zak
This is our reputation now. When we lost 9-0, it was miserable, but we could laugh about it. At least we lost just because we sucked. we are that Now we've got an unbeaten run that potentially is going to be put down to, well, actually, it's because we knew exactly how they were going to line up.
00:16:16
Zak
and We knew what their set pieces routine was going to be. When, yeah as you said, it might be a marginal edge, but it's still an edge. And it's still not like, it's this isn't like a one-off mistake, I think is my problem.
00:16:24
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:16:28
Zak
If it's a one-off thing where someone made a stupid decision, and maybe it was an intern, and maybe they went up, and we should have known that the club have said nothing about it. But for it to come out that we have admitted to three times, I've seen potentially already the rumours flying around Coventry, the whole thing is just like,
00:16:47
Zak
What a time to be a Saints fan, I guess. And the absolute lack of respect to both to fans and and players. And what i actually feel, Greg, and in my in my deep down of hearts is after Steel went, I wouldn't be surprised if a conversation took place. And again, don't want to get done in for like label whatever, but I wouldn't be surprised if somewhere a conversation took place which said, we need to get promoted and we need to win by any means necessary. And they took any means necessary, literally, and now we're in this position. But I would have rather have come mid-table and just about scraped survival than than do what we've done now.
00:17:25
Zak
And, like, even if we appeal and we win and we go up to the Premier League, like, I...
00:17:31
Zak
And I know that some people just be like, oh mate, it's football.
00:17:31
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:17:33
Zak
And like, you know, we can joke about the fact that we've managed to do this in less than a week, but yet apparently 113 charges. You'd expect it to take 113 days for Man City, but there we are, you know, with Pep on his way out and Arsenal confirmed now as champions in the last five minutes.
00:17:50
Zak
It doesn't surprise me full if all of that starts to fall apart next year anyway. But i just we just lose the moral high ground on anything. And you know what? Apologies to the Borough fans.
00:17:59
Zak
and Apologies to the whole fans who've done absolutely nothing wrong. I hate it. I feel awful. I feel gross. I've never been... I'm a Chiefs fan in NFL. They were already hated for many, many reasons, right?
00:18:11
Zak
And I feel I've never been so disappointed in a sports institution. And we' within the last hour as well, Greg, I'll tell you that when we when we talked about the couple of wins that Tonda got that were completely undone with that 4-0 Borough win, right?
00:18:25
Zak
Sorry, we you know, and then we talked about how the the sort of bubbling feeling against Sports Republic was was put down, right? Then we had the January window, which we actually called Tin Pot. And we've done nothing but praise the January window.
00:18:39
Zak
You know, i admittedly, Carl Larrant, it's not his fault, right? That he's come in and been a really, really successful player for us. But there is potentially, who knows what's going on there? Ross Stewart has been, has had the weirdest day. Like he's in the Scottish World Cup squad, which is probably not something he expected, but really, really wanted. And also finds out he might not be playing in a final Saturday, but also still might be.
00:19:01
Zak
Yeah, I just... I don't know, man. I just feel... i'm feel so I feel like the fans and the players themselves have been utterly and thoroughly let down.
00:19:11
DailySaintsPod
Mm.
00:19:11
Zak
And we're going to be ones that get the stick.
00:19:11
DailySaintsPod
hundred percent.
00:19:13
Zak
They're going to be at a close-up shop. And all I can hope is whoever... if there are people that have involved... You know, that poor intern matey, I hope to God he has the right support around him.
00:19:23
Zak
Because, you know, God knows what he's going through right now. And, you know, all the abuse that's being thrown.
00:19:28
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:19:29
DailySaintsPod
Horrible way is horrible. Cause there's like you say, Even in a world where he potentially goes off on his own back to try and get a one-up on this, is not it's just not the one, is it? Someone someone somewhere signed it off.
00:19:29
Zak
And it's it's just...
00:19:43
DailySaintsPod
And like I say, I don't know how high up it goes. I don't know if Tonda will have known or won't. I'm sure that we will find out in the days and weeks to come. But I kind of feel like, regardless of that, that's where the flack will fall. Because, because yeah, like you say, how...
00:20:01
DailySaintsPod
How could you not be be that aware? But it's it's just sad, mate. And it...
00:20:07
Zak
sort of So many implications, mate.
00:20:09
DailySaintsPod
It is. We talked, I mean, we've talked at the show on length, right, about the difference and what it means to the club to stay in the championship and what it means to go up.
00:20:11
Zak
So many.
00:20:18
DailySaintsPod
and And, you know, the difference is is real people's jobs potentially getting cut from the club, right? Like genuinely having to reduce costs by having those cutbacks and and dealing with that. And...
00:20:35
DailySaintsPod
you know, it's it's been said often that to lose in the playoffs is the the worst way to stay down, right? Losing at Wembley. And somehow we just found a way to be even worse than that.
00:20:47
DailySaintsPod
Like we've, we've, we've managed to top even that because you're right.
00:20:48
Zak
oh
00:20:52
DailySaintsPod
Even if the appeal does go through, it's, it's not going to be a glorious day out, whatever happens. And, and frankly, you know, I say, I'll still go and support the boys, but honestly, are you going to be able to rock up on Saturday with the, correct we talked about the mental edge and how important it is at this level,
00:21:13
DailySaintsPod
How could you possibly be mentally prepared to go into the most important game of the season with all of this nonsense around it regardless of who you are?
00:21:15
Zak
I just, I just...
00:21:21
Zak
I just, I can't, I just, there's part of me, mate, that I just can't imagine them they're now just retracting that tomorrow. I genuinely, like, I know that we're still we're still discussing a potential scenario. And again, I haven't quite been able to bring myself to cancel the hotel and stuff yet because I'm there like, well, but also...
00:21:41
Zak
i
00:21:43
Zak
I'm sorry, but but words words escaped me for the first time in a long, long time. it's It's a genuine feeling of shell shock, right? And it it's genuinely depressed.
00:21:52
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:21:53
Zak
like And it's just stupid. it's It's all of the the impact to everybody's lives, fans, and the impact to you know just everyone involved across the board.
00:22:03
Zak
you know Our fans, Borough fans, Hull fans. you know there's There's been this absolute vitriol and hatred thrown across both sides of the barriers since this has all kicked off. which essentially, like realistically, it's not any of Burrah's fault. and you know that The way they've behaved is obviously probably, i think some people would call it excessive, but also flip side of things. if it If it turned out that we were thrown out, you know we'd lost, and then it turned out that Burrah had spied not once, but like three or four times, or potentially more, and we don't really know the full facts, and this and the other...
00:22:35
Zak
ill do just it's just the whole the whole thing from top to bottom is rotten. And what i was the point I think I was trying to get to you before I went completely off track, because, you know, it's a bit of an emotive subject, isn't it?
00:22:47
DailySaintsPod
Mm-hmm.
00:22:48
Zak
Was that after that 4-0 loss to Borough,
00:22:52
Zak
The feel-good vibes and the starting to wins and putting together that unbeaten run has has very, very briefly covered up everything that was going on the Sports Republic. And we criticized them a bit in the January window for their business that we thought was inadequate, that luckily for them turned out to be right.
00:23:09
Zak
Right? However, that was always a plaster over you know a water tank leak, right? We all knew, maybe if we got promoted and maybe if we bought in some players and maybe if everything sports wanted to do...
00:23:25
Zak
the the the distance and, you know, the crack would maybe heal up a little bit, but it very much feels like that we've just ripped the plaster open and it took, what, an hour before I saw the absolute vitriol and hatred spill out towards Sports Republic, whether it's the CEO, because either way...
00:23:43
DailySaintsPod
Yeah. Well, it's happened on on their watch, whether they were culpable and aware or not.
00:23:48
Zak
Yeah, we we don't know. I don't know. It's all it's all allegedly. and said it's But what has been what has been, as you pointed out, the state the facts are, is we've done it three times and we've admitted to it three times, the three times we've been accused of.
00:24:02
Zak
And ultimately, the punishment that we've got, some people may not... see it as fits the crime but ultimately when you are accused of cheating three times and you have admitted to it three times if they want to throw you out of a competition competition i kind of believe that to be the right to be you said you started going through the bylaws and got four pages into 248 before you went oh don't know about this but the fact that we're even having to do that is timpot embarrassing it is
00:24:26
DailySaintsPod
Yeah. Well, that's the thing. What i was actually trying to look up, and umm I'm kind of looking at it in the background now as well, mate, is obviously there will be an appeal tomorrow.
00:24:37
DailySaintsPod
and And that means that actually it goes to a different panel, which presumably is why there might be confidence of a different outcome or a different you know set of evidence being presented.
00:24:51
DailySaintsPod
But actually what I was trying to look up, if if after that there's grounds for legal proceedings, because because the the punishment is so severe that I don't see us letting it stop.
00:25:08
Zak
No, i don't think that's going to be the case.
00:25:08
DailySaintsPod
And...
00:25:10
Zak
I think that we'll fight it till the ends of the earth. I just think that regardless of of what happens now, whether we get reinstated, even if we get reinstated and we win it, there is not going to be the same level of jubilation and joy.
00:25:24
Zak
But the problem is is that i I am so like far removed from the idea of us being reinstated.
00:25:34
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:25:34
Zak
Like, it's so, like, you seem to have a little bit more confidence than me, which I kind of almost admire. But it's so, I'm so far like, nah, surely not. Because if we've we've admitted to it, we've admitted to three breaches, the club and putting out zero statement is more, unless they are trying to protect themselves and protect all of the staff. But if you've just said that, like, they're putting out statements to the staff and being like, oh, it might be all right, guys, and this, that, and other. And it's like, you know what could have just prevented this, Greg?
00:26:03
Zak
just not doing it. it was so easy to just not do this.
00:26:05
DailySaintsPod
Yeah, look, I agree with that, but like you look at the the consequences right of of this and what this amounts to in reality, if you break
00:26:16
Zak
This is why we've done it.
00:26:18
DailySaintsPod
yeah but But what it amounts to in reality right is the equivalent of a £200 million pam fine by not being granted the ability to play in the playoff and potentially go up. The equivalent of a 10-point deduction, because that's how many points clear we were into the playoffs to get to this point.
00:26:36
DailySaintsPod
and a four-point deduction next season. And now don't get me wrong, right? the The outcome of the appeal, even positive in our favour, might be, yeah you're right, it's too harsh. Just kicked out of the playoffs, you can start on zero next year.
00:26:50
DailySaintsPod
Which, I mean... I don't know. i look I see both sides of it because it feels like a particularly harsh judgment. But I feel like genuinely when I try and break it down because of the, you know, like we talked about, the logistical headache that making that decision was going to be. i don't think it's a decision they've come to lightly. So I think it's going to take a huge amount of evidence to overturn it. And I just don't see see that.
00:27:18
DailySaintsPod
But like I say, the the thing is, like, it's worth so much to us as a club that, but you know, the the next port of call being sort of a legal battle is, is I feel, definitely on the cards. and Which is a shame because realistically it just ends up dragging it out even further.
00:27:40
Zak
This is what it's all to do, isn't it? This is what it's all... Let's face it. let's let's Let's get straight to the crux of it, Greg. It's all to do with mine. It's not about...
Financial Motivations and Scandal
00:27:49
Zak
We had desperately wanted to just do a podcast about football and we have spoken far more about finance than I'd ever have wanted to discuss.
00:27:56
DailySaintsPod
Well, that's the thing, mate. And that much is immediately clear because if it was ever about the fans or anything else, we wouldn't be having this conversation, sorry, three days before the actual game in question.
00:28:08
DailySaintsPod
It's...
00:28:08
Zak
at 9.40pm at night with absolutely no time, you know, after everybody's booked their travel and people, yeah, man, it's, what do you say?
00:28:08
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:28:11
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:28:19
Zak
And again, like, you know, now we've got to deal with the absolute hate and vitriol that, you know, i think that is going to come with it and we'll just have to take it on the chin because if it's, if everything's that's been alleged that we've admitted to is true because we've admitted to it and potentially more that's alleged,
00:28:38
Zak
It's what it is. It's just, it's just, i've I've never, it's been a long time since I've ever felt a disappointment like this. It's different. It's weird. It almost feels like grief. And, you know, I know that that might sound a lot like very, very dramatic, but again, like we are a daily podcast most of the time, right? We cover this a lot. We spend a lot of our life is invested into football and there are people that treat it fair weather and there are people that treat it casually.
00:29:03
Zak
And then there are people that aren't. And then there are people that maybe treat it a little bit too much. Like you're already having to see, like we're having to take breaks from social media. There are other people that are definitely starting to realize that it's just not the place to be right now.
00:29:17
Zak
But I think, like, coming down to it, this was all just so preventable. They just needed to not do it. And I think that then whoever has done it needs to be punished to the full extent.
00:29:27
Zak
And we go from there. Again, like, i i don't I think I'd, like, manage to justify it to myself. And and again, like, you almost get defensive, right? Because of how much abuse was being thrown our way. Exactly like you pointed out, Greg. We've just kind of, like, thrown it off. But, you know, make the binocular signs. Throw it back a little bit. The sort of banter you have to to do to deal with that kind of stuff.
00:29:47
Zak
And yet now we're in a position where the club have admitted three breaches of the three they've been accused of. Right. So that's, that's, that's not withstanding potentially more. Like, and that's, and that for me, it it really, really questions the sporting integrity far more than it ever did initially.
00:30:05
Zak
And it's just a disgrace. And I think that it's going to be really, really hard, you know, and I think that that's going to carry with us as long as Sports Republic are in. And I don't know if they'll ever recover from this now is where I'm at.
00:30:13
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:30:16
DailySaintsPod
Yeah. So I have found the the part I was looking for in the background, mate, so I can I can categorically state factually from the show that because it's an appeal, it will go to the arbitration panel because presumably this was an expected outcome. The reason they've been able to expedite this to a single day is because presumably they would have had the arbitration panel on board and ready to go, ready for the appeal. right But that is a separate body from the independent commission that made the original decision.
00:30:50
DailySaintsPod
And it can only go to that board if the evidence presented is substantial enough. But most importantly, here in the EFL regulation 2526 handbook, page 142 of 288, section 9.104, challenging the award.
00:31:07
DailySaintsPod
Subject to the provisions of section 67 and 68 of the Arbitration Act, the award should be final and binding, and there should be no right of appeal or further arbitration. and the parties exclude irrevocably any right to any other form of appeal, review, or recourse in but or by a court, judicial authority, or other arbitral body, insofar as such waiver may validly be made. And so, there will not be a legal challenge beyond tomorrow for this. Tomorrow's decision will be final. What I could potentially see is
00:31:44
DailySaintsPod
other legal battles stemming from it uh perhaps some kind of don't know uh miss mistrial style legal challenges dfl about the the expedited nature and no right to a proper defense or some such nonsense but But realistically, what happens tomorrow should be the deciding factor.
00:32:08
DailySaintsPod
And from there, we should know where exactly we are at and what the actual repercussions of the club are. And
Future Repercussions for Southampton
00:32:15
DailySaintsPod
I expect, regardless of the outcome, whether we're back in the final or not, I expect several heads at the club, probably in some quite senior positions, to roll.
00:32:25
DailySaintsPod
Because...
00:32:26
Zak
Yeah, well deservedly so. But again, I think that a lot of people that will feel like it hasn't got round to the root of the problem because culture comes from the top ultimately.
00:32:28
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:32:33
DailySaintsPod
Hmm. No, I agree. And you're right. it It effectively writes off all of the goodwill that Sports Republic had managed to garner in the second part of this season and takes us back further back even than square one into are these a group of people who we want owning our football club?
00:32:53
DailySaintsPod
And... I don't know if I'm in a proper state to think enough upon that answer to make that decision but I will say I've never felt worse as a fan of Saints than this it's grim it's horrible and it's shameful isn't it it's it's just sad
00:33:12
Zak
Yeah, oh there it's just, that's just it's it's completely tarnished what was feel-good season after the absolute horror show of last, right? And i think that I think that the outcome of this, regardless, will be unforgivable for a lot of people.
00:33:29
Zak
i there's There's a lot of questions I have for how it's been handled. I know that we all kind of think it's been an absolute shit show. But for example, allowing both of those semifinals to take place.
00:33:41
DailySaintsPod
ridiculous
00:33:41
Zak
Surely, I understand that i understand that calling it off the day before...
00:33:47
Zak
St Mary's, like the dealing you know the game at Middlesbrough itself, you know, and and the game at St Mary's, I understand that it's a logistical nightmare calling them off.
00:33:55
DailySaintsPod
but that's got to be says yeah with three days notice trains are booked
00:33:55
Zak
I still think that that's less of a logistical nightmare than calling off Wembley, where trains have been planned, policing, all this kind of stuff. It's just an absolutely
00:34:03
DailySaintsPod
I mean, when we sold out our allocation, right? Like, it's not a little amount of... Yeah.
00:34:09
Zak
You've added Hull, who still are in Nimbo and have done nothing wrong apart from beat Millwall.
00:34:11
DailySaintsPod
Yeah, yeah
00:34:16
Zak
That is it.
00:34:17
DailySaintsPod
it's...
00:34:18
Zak
Their crime is that they have done this successfully and got to a point...
00:34:21
DailySaintsPod
Yeah, it's...
00:34:22
Zak
yeah
00:34:23
DailySaintsPod
It's a shambles. they should have They should have postponed it from the very start and let the proceedings take way if they thought where it was a case. The only reason I can think of that they didn't, well, there's two reasons, right?
00:34:34
DailySaintsPod
They were A, hoping Middlesbrough beat us and they could kick the can down the road and not worry about it. And B, because if they...
00:34:39
Zak
where we asked for postponement, right?
00:34:41
DailySaintsPod
Yeah, but also if if they do postpone the games and set it back and investigate and it comes to fruition, it was just a bloke on his own and not Saints.
00:34:41
Zak
We asked for postponement now,
00:34:52
DailySaintsPod
you know, the uproar the other way is is is pretty strong. But it's, yeah, it's been really poorly handled.
00:35:01
Zak
It's just grim.
00:35:01
DailySaintsPod
It's shambolic.
00:35:01
Zak
like When you say it like that, that's how you just wish it was.
00:35:04
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:35:05
Zak
And it's it's just not. And quite frankly, we're we're now going have to deal with the being tarnished, right? these guys will These guys, whoever it is, however it all pans out, they might you're right you might be right, Greg, that heads might roll.
00:35:11
DailySaintsPod
yeah
00:35:17
Zak
Do you know what will happen? They'll roll into another job at another football club somewhere else and they'll just carry on. I don't i don't i't think they're really bagless, are they?
00:35:25
DailySaintsPod
Well, they they might not, mate, because actually with with withstanding the appeal and the the arbitration board, actually these are the consequences from the club to the EFL, but actually what can happen as a result of these breaches and these charges next is the FA are fully within their right to take those charges and launch investigations and sanctions on individuals, which...
00:35:47
Zak
So they go over to France and Germany and everybody, or do you reckon that would be like recommended up to people?
00:35:51
DailySaintsPod
No, mate, they'll...
00:35:52
Zak
Would it just be like an actual sporting ban?
00:35:53
DailySaintsPod
they make people get bans for years for betting on games without any proof that they cheated or affected it so this is proven this is proven cheated if if they're found guilty of those charges and knowingly doing so
00:35:54
Zak
Because that would be interesting.
00:36:05
Zak
Yeah, no, you're right. Sorry, hang on.
00:36:12
DailySaintsPod
they may never work in football again, honestly, at least to some some degree. So, you know, in some respects, the the the answer from a Saints perspective is probably final tomorrow, but the the consequences of this will be seen through the club for many years to come and for the individuals.
00:36:33
Zak
The reputation of the damage is going to exist forever.
Club's Most Embarrassing Scandal
00:36:35
DailySaintsPod
Yeah, for sure.
00:36:36
Zak
I'm sorry.
00:36:36
Zak
This is this is never... i think Adam Blackmore summed it up pretty well where this is the most embarrassing moment in the club's history.
00:36:38
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:36:42
DailySaintsPod
Yeah, I fully agree.
00:36:42
Zak
I don't even know i don't even know what to what to say. Like, you know, there's their...
00:36:46
DailySaintsPod
there's there's no There's a reason we've not come out and...
00:36:47
Zak
Well, you know what I've got to say. There's been 37 minutes...
00:36:49
DailySaintsPod
try That's it, mate. There's a reason we've not come out and tried to defend it. It's indefensible. It's disgusting. And and heads should roll. And and the the people responsible should serve...
00:37:02
DailySaintsPod
you know lengthy bans from from football because it is a breach of rules regardless of you know how much you do or don't think an advantage was achieved, regardless of if a bloke stood by a tree is ridiculous, it is definitively in the rules and we have gone against them. you know Regardless of the fact that it's not in the rules of other leagues and not in the rules of the Premier League or European leagues, it is a rule in the league we play in and we've breached it. So there's no defending it. It's disgusting. It's shameful. And anybody that
00:37:34
DailySaintsPod
was knowingly doing it, should never work in football again, in in my opinion. how can you How can you respect the character of someone who has made that decision?
00:37:45
DailySaintsPod
You can't. And whether I agree with the the sanctions on the club as a whole or not, I don't know yet. I'm finding it virtually impossible to step back and analyse it objectively because it's it's just not doable, mate.
00:37:56
Zak
difficult to be objective.
00:38:01
DailySaintsPod
But it feels very harsh.
00:38:01
Zak
No.
00:38:03
DailySaintsPod
but don't know I don't know. don't know. mean, it's cheating.
00:38:06
Zak
It's been consuming, right? as as As people who do this for like, not even the side hustle, we need to reiterate sometimes that we do this for the love of the game.
00:38:19
Zak
You'll notice that if if you notice that, you know especially if you listen on Spotify or whatever. well like Yeah, we've we've done this for you know fit for what like a year, two years now.
00:38:30
DailySaintsPod
Coming up two years, yeah.
00:38:31
Zak
It's been a massive struggle last season. We fought our way through. And again, part of that is believing in the integrity and the character of our club. And it's always been... you know There was no reason for anyone to really hate Saints fans, to be honest, apart from Portsmouth. They're always going hate us. A couple of Coventry fans for whatever reason. Now I feel like they have a bit more of a a reason to, to be honest. But yeah, obviously obviously like this last week, and then I think we've all felt very defensive against a lot of the Borough fans because of just how much has been thrown our way. Because there is a complete disbelief that surely we wouldn't have done this like, you know, and oh everything was rumours. It's like you were trying to say before I really interrupted you, where, you know, the reason that we've not covered this over the last day or so is because what's there been to cover? Just rumours and hearsay. And quite frankly, we didn't really want to get into too much of that. We want to try and stick to what's actually the the facts are. And now the facts have come out. Yeah, it's it's just...
00:39:23
Zak
shambolic and shameful and it's it's really is going to have ramifications for years and years to come right and i feel like perfectly honest until there is an ownership change where we can say you know we actually have a defense to say that was this regime this is the new regime it's going to stick with them because i don't think it matters if if you're right greg that heads will roll and that they'll they'll pinpoint on somebody you know where, again, I can't help but reiterate the culture comes from the top.
00:39:53
Zak
If you've got people that have allowed this to take place, you know, we didn't cover any of the stuff in detail that was supposedly coming out about our French sister club, right, where there was a lot of rumours coming out.
00:39:53
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:40:01
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:40:05
Zak
And the reason we didn't cover it is it was one guy who was a journalist who did all of it in French.
00:40:06
DailySaintsPod
Hmm.
00:40:10
Zak
It was really hard to translate and he didn't provide any sources. But, but you know, we've all kind of... it's not like Sports Republic have got away with being, you know, and people might go, oh, you were happy to support them while it was going good. And I was like, yeah, I genuinely have thought that what's happened is we've turned this around on merit.
00:40:30
Zak
And to find out that that's not a hundred percent the case, maybe even like 50% of the case is just, completely and utterly disappointing. And like, I also feel bad for the social media team because they put a funny video regarding training yesterday where it was very clearly trying to be like, ho, ho, ho, playing into the joke.
00:40:39
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:40:42
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:40:48
DailySaintsPod
Tongue in cheek, light hearted, yeah.
00:40:50
Zak
And it's like, clearly that bloke wasn't told anything either and probably might have thought the same as us.
00:40:53
DailySaintsPod
a
00:40:55
Zak
And I'd like to think that that's how a vast majority of the the staff that aren't involved in this feel. But yeah, man.
00:41:02
DailySaintsPod
Well, mate, we've seen what the communication from the club's like. You can't imagine it's better to its staff than it is to us because, you know, three hours on at and this point now, still nothing.
00:41:08
Zak
well
00:41:11
Zak
James Bree as well mate.
00:41:12
DailySaintsPod
Their website, the front of the website is still Stuart named in Scotland squad.
00:41:13
Zak
Can
00:41:18
DailySaintsPod
And the top news story is championship playoff final tickets available to all members. So, well...
00:41:25
Zak
you just quickly check mate if you can like search for Wembley tickets for Saturday?
00:41:32
DailySaintsPod
Yeah, sure. I can have a little look live. It's
00:41:37
DailySaintsPod
it's just really sad, isn't it?
00:41:40
DailySaintsPod
it's
00:41:40
Zak
what' It's just a horrible, horrible timeline.
00:41:42
Zak
We're in the same timeline that Arsenal have won the Premier League. but
00:41:45
DailySaintsPod
Well, that's the thing, mate, right? This is the thing.
00:41:47
Zak
Spurs might not go down, it might be West Ham.
00:41:50
DailySaintsPod
This is the thing, Zach, that we've talked all season about sometimes when it goes good for Saints.
00:41:52
Zak
What
00:41:56
DailySaintsPod
It's not even like the the big news story, like it's been overshadowed by something else. And now it's happened the other way, where we're the most disgusting thing to happen in the world of football on a day where Arsenal have been crowned Premier League champions.
00:42:15
Zak
Oh, you're right. You can't make up. It's... Man, it's poetry, innit?
00:42:19
DailySaintsPod
like there're There are no links four but on the site currently for tickets that I can see.
00:42:28
Zak
Oh, that web admin's going to be working overtime tonight. All of those poor staff members that now need to do all of the work to undo all of the...
00:42:40
DailySaintsPod
just going a different route because to be fair, the website is not the best. Yeah, no, I tried to click on it. and' get You may have come across this page because you're not eligible to view this product.
00:42:50
DailySaintsPod
I am. I've got the...
00:42:53
Zak
you bought tickets
00:42:53
DailySaintsPod
I'm logged in with with tickets. So, yeah, I presume they're not selling more tickets.
00:42:57
Zak
hmm
00:42:59
DailySaintsPod
I mean, to be fair, it was salt sold out anyway. So that might be what happens normally. But, yeah, I could see why they wouldn't want to sell more tickets given the the circumstances.
00:43:10
DailySaintsPod
but But just the fact that there hasn't even been so much as a... like even a placeholder statement from the club would be better than nothing, right? And even that would come under criticism.
00:43:22
DailySaintsPod
But to just stay silent when the news is what it is is is honestly just disgraceful for me. It shows that there are utter lack of respect for the fans who are going through it and suffering for it.
00:43:35
Zak
just let's just just let us take the brunt of it.
00:43:36
DailySaintsPod
Hmm.
00:43:39
Zak
They're going to be hoping their appeal is to make it's successful tomorrow and then they don't even need to acknowledge it and hope it just goes away. And again, but I don't even know how I'm going to feel like the idea, I can't,
00:43:45
DailySaintsPod
hmm it's not
00:43:49
Zak
It's so hard to even think about this idea that we might get reinstated tomorrow and then just like act like that's normal. Because I genuinely don't think that like I, from like a moral standpoint, can just be like, oh, thank goodness. Well, now I've had to upon time to for my head to clear and and it's all right.
00:44:07
Zak
It's just, yeah. Right. I feel like I've rambled just a lot.
00:44:11
DailySaintsPod
Look, mate, 45 minutes of pure emotion, a disappointment and devastation.
00:44:12
Zak
A lot of outpouring of emotion. Right.
Future Podcast Plans on Appeal Outcome
00:44:20
DailySaintsPod
and And look, it it'll be what we'll be. I think that we've discussed, right that we'll we'll probably do another episode tomorrow, when we get all all the day after, when we get the conclusion of the of the appeal.
00:44:28
Zak
yeah
00:44:33
DailySaintsPod
We'll talk about that a bit more, and I'm sure that some more actual facts will come out. i't I've seen some other stuff flying around, but I can't find reputable sources. i mean, it's come from the Telegraph, and I just don't even know if I call that reputable these days, but I've just seen that apparently and as part of the process, Tom Derecka admitted he was responsible for the decision to spy. and His key defence was that since the practice is widespread on the continent, he had no idea he was breaking English football rules.
00:45:04
DailySaintsPod
And so if that's the case, like I said earlier, I expect him to you know not only be the full guy and get the sack from us, but tos probably face a really lengthy ban from football in general because ignorance is not a defence.
00:45:18
Zak
and Ignorance to crime is unfortunately not a defence.
00:45:21
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:45:22
Zak
At some point, surely, anybody around him should have gone, by the way, don't you think that's allowed here.
00:45:28
DailySaintsPod
Yeah. but i mean look maybe I mean, look, it's an inexperienced coaching staff.
00:45:29
Zak
you'd You'd think... but
00:45:33
DailySaintsPod
Genuinely, I can see a world where maybe nobody knew, mate. Especially because it's not a rule in the Premier League and not a rule on the continent. i can i can This is not an attempt to form a defence by any stretch of the imagination, I can see a world where they were ignorant enough to not go and check that it wasn't against the rules, you know?
00:45:52
Zak
you're You're right, that would also be like the most Southampton thing ever, is that we hired such an inexperienced manager that we didn't even make sure he like he knew the rules of the championship before chucking him directly into the deep end.
00:46:03
DailySaintsPod
Yeah. Well, I don't know, mate. He was an intense person, but even he's going struggle to sit and read all 288 pages of this very, very dry rules and regulations page.
00:46:13
Zak
True, but was it he also at Brantley, so he's bit in he's not just been in Germany, he has been here before.
00:46:14
DailySaintsPod
Well, mate, look, I'll tell you now that I am...
00:46:33
DailySaintsPod
Right? Of, like, amount of that consumed. It's not going to be a lot. It is it is dry.
00:46:37
Zak
Oh, you're right. There are just going to be people that have asked them to summarize the part in AI that matters. And that's not...
00:46:44
DailySaintsPod
Oh! Well, look, that's a dystopian thought path for another day. But like I say, we will we will come back and talk about the the result that comes out of the appeal and maybe have a more a more reasoned and level-headed chat if we've managed to at least call off a bit about what that might mean for for the future and for next year.
00:46:50
Zak
a
00:47:08
DailySaintsPod
But I'm just saying Saints to go down from the championship next season, probably not an unreasonable bet at this point is where I sit on it. Yeah. but And then after that, we will probably take a fairly hefty summer break. But but look, we'll we'll cross that bridge.
00:47:27
DailySaintsPod
we've We've got today out of the way. Thank you to all of our listeners for for sticking with us and listening to this. And thank you, everyone, for joining us on the journey.
00:47:41
Zak
100%. Yep. Feel
00:47:42
DailySaintsPod
We're on all the socials, but I, for one, am going to be staying as far away from them for a couple of weeks as possible. But, look, feel free to let us know your opinions on them.
00:47:52
Zak
that.
00:48:03
DailySaintsPod
But until then...
00:48:05
Zak
You know it's going to be 30 comments that will just say cheats! Let's not pretend. But to all yeah it's it all the people that, you know, long term, we appreciate you all.
00:48:15
DailySaintsPod
But look, there's no defending it and we're not trying to excuse it.
00:48:17
Zak
Thank you.
00:48:21
DailySaintsPod
And I think that our disappointment in the club's decisions has been been put across pretty well today. That's
00:48:30
Zak
because About 50% of my rant was hopefully coherent. Just thank you to everyone that that listens in and supports us. You know, it's it's not really the bang ending we wanted to have, right?
00:48:41
Zak
the The build-up we had planned for this week.
00:48:42
DailySaintsPod
it.
00:48:44
Zak
Oh, we were going to talk about the last time were at Wembley. Oh, the line-ups. It's going to be great. like Maybe we'll get a chance. Who knows about it?
00:48:52
DailySaintsPod
won't but Won't be the same, mate.
00:48:54
DailySaintsPod
It's all tainted. But look, until next time, Saints fans, look after yourselves and we will see you then.
00:48:54
Zak
Nah.
00:48:55
Zak
You're right.
00:49:01
Zak
Okay.