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Episode 448: Season In Review!
99 Plays10 days ago
Southampton – The date dictates the football season is coming to an end, so we take this week to go through all of our end of season content, before begining to look forward properly!
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Transcript
Podcast Introduction
00:00:13
DailySaintsPod
Hello and welcome back to the Daily Saints pod episode number four hundred and forty eight. My name is Greg and as always today joined by my good friend wonderful co-host Zach. Mate, how you doing?
Weekend Adventures and Traffic Woes
00:00:28
Zak
Good morning, good afternoon, good evening. Yeah, I'm not too bad. I've had a a busy weekend back and forth from Winchester yesterday. unfortunately, a trip to St Mary's, but, like, not even to go and see Take That, but we were on pick-up and drop-off duties for my mother-in-law, which is, uh...
00:00:46
Zak
Maybe you realise that the traffic on match days, mate, isn't actually as bad as you think it is until you add another, like, 20,000 people or whatever into the mix.
00:00:51
DailySaintsPod
you
00:00:54
Zak
And then, yeah, I've spent my entire day today essentially just suffering from hay fever.
00:00:54
DailySaintsPod
Yes.
00:00:58
Zak
but
00:01:00
DailySaintsPod
I'll tell you that that sitting in all of that traffic from take that and not ever getting to see them, it's not the greatest day, is it?
00:01:00
Zak
But...
00:01:07
Zak
No, well, I got to see some of the pyrotechnics.
00:01:08
DailySaintsPod
jes Just requires some patience.
00:01:10
Zak
That was...
00:01:13
Zak
Oh, mate,
00:01:14
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:01:18
Zak
sometimes you make me laugh.
00:01:20
DailySaintsPod
Yeah. Enough time in the car to listen to a million love songs? I don't know. I don't know how many of these I've got. Yeah.
00:01:33
Zak
It's like crowbar rule the world in there and I just struggled immediately.
00:01:35
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:01:36
Zak
that's about where I'm at.
00:01:41
DailySaintsPod
So you can look forward in the next couple of weeks to seeing how I'm going to get something about a girl with five colours in her hair, but we'll move
Football Season's End and Reflections
00:01:48
DailySaintsPod
swiftly on, mate.
00:01:49
Zak
To be clear, this is still a Saints podcast. Mm-hmm. it's
00:01:54
DailySaintsPod
Look, let's sir this week is is it for for the season, right? It's the 1st of June.
00:02:01
Zak
it
00:02:03
DailySaintsPod
It is when officially all football seasons end. All the football is done and dusted. We look ahead to the summer tournaments and the preseason and all the stuff that comes with it.
00:02:16
DailySaintsPod
And so this week... We are going to go through all of our post-season bits and bobs, and we're going to start today with our season in review, but not like the detailed statistical analysis or any of the breakdowns where we, you know, fondly look back on any particular games, any great detail, but just...
00:02:19
Zak
I want to sure that I'm going show bit.
00:02:43
DailySaintsPod
you know, without the preparation and the looking back upon it, trying to think about how it went. Because, you know, it's been been a couple of weeks now since the the absolute devastation that was was caused with how the season finished.
00:02:57
DailySaintsPod
So the dust has cleared enough to take a bit of a step back and look at it and think about...
00:02:58
Zak
I
00:03:06
DailySaintsPod
how it went as a season overall. And, uh, I don't know, should should we start the start? Where, uh, where are
00:03:14
Zak
i mean, makes makes logical sense. I watched the first game in Quackers.
00:03:20
DailySaintsPod
we?
00:03:20
Zak
yeah
00:03:21
DailySaintsPod
yeah
Challenges and Optimism of Manager Will Steele
00:03:22
DailySaintsPod
That's it. We had that game, Wrexham, at home, and we all came in, I think, quite hopeful and optimistic that Will Steele, although an unproven talent, was was at least a promising acquisition and who is going goingnna bring something, you know, a bit of versatility and, don't know, something with him to the football team that we'd lacked previously.
00:03:49
Zak
i think I think everybody kind of thought that he was going to bring maybe something a little bit different and something a bit more. And I think that where he didn't, I don't want to say it necessarily failed, but I guess that's actually the accurate terminology for it.
00:04:05
DailySaintsPod
Hmm.
00:04:05
Zak
was I think that he just kind of made assumptions about what the extent of the job was. And you can tell that from sort of his interviews, even during the time he was in the job where he was happening it where he was talking about how he was like having to deal with questions like, are we allowed to do that?
00:04:23
Zak
And he's like, yeah.
00:04:23
DailySaintsPod
Hmm.
00:04:25
Zak
And again, I think people questioned whether or not could be the right level of motivator. But if you look at the work he did in France and the fact that one of the clubs he was willing to put up with £30,000 a day fines to keep him, there was a big sense of optimism.
00:04:40
DailySaintsPod
Hmm.
00:04:43
Zak
And pre-season wasn't terrible. And ended... was right.
00:04:46
DailySaintsPod
Yeah, it was hit and miss, right?
00:04:47
Zak
Yeah, and again, the... was ra yeah like again love is
00:04:50
DailySaintsPod
I mean, we did book losses to Espanol and drew with Brighton.
00:04:58
Zak
Yeah, I mean, the problem is, is that considering that we're coming off the back of the Premier League season where we'd beaten Everton and Ipswich, both of those games, like, apart from maybe Ipswich-Everton, fondly remember as a terrible game. But it was like after a horrible medical thing that I'd had to have. So for me, it was just like, it was like a nice thing to have. But I remember you specifically saying it was just like one of the worst games you'd ever seen that we managed to win.
00:05:23
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:05:23
Zak
And sort of so you know, off the back of a season with two wins, I wasn't really expecting us to beat anyone in pre-season or even really. and Like, unless we were playing, we we didn't test ourselves against, like, League One opposition.
00:05:36
Zak
You've got Premier League Brighton and Espanyol who like, you know, La Liga.
00:05:36
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:05:40
Zak
So I'm not hugely surprised.
00:05:41
DailySaintsPod
I think... I think but your take on it, and I'm sure we'll get to it as we get towards the end of the Will Steele stuff, is is really good, though. I think you're right.
00:05:51
DailySaintsPod
like I don't think Will Steele was a bad manager. I just think that the job of turning the mentality and the confidence of the team around was such a big job, and and it I think it just took more than someone who's a good football manager, and I just don't know if if that was what he had about him.
00:06:07
Zak
We did. It's the selection of profiles, right? Like it's unfortunately, in my put opinion, the worst one, right?
00:06:12
DailySaintsPod
Hmm.
00:06:14
Zak
So when we talk about some of the players, so so you mentioned it last episode with Jalert, right? He was clearly profiled for a different job that he's ended up having to do. You've had exactly the same with Damien Downs, where you expected point A from him, but instead we got B and that that just went disastrous.
00:06:27
DailySaintsPod
Hmm.
00:06:33
Zak
And I think what we kind of expected from him as a manager isn't really... the reality of what was gotten, but also because I don't think the extent and what parts of the job were him needing to do ended up being the ones that he ended up
Tonda's Management Amid Spygate Controversy
00:06:47
Zak
having to do.
00:06:47
Zak
And I think that ultimately then he struggled and the results weren't there. And, you know, the fact that he took that he looks back fondly on, like, his memories here and wishes us all the best luck and stuff, immediately that was before him.
00:06:59
Zak
all of Spygate kicked off. But one of the things that I think is telling is that he talked about how good the performance was at Swansea, a game that we drew nil-nil. And I'm kind of there like, if that's one of your points of pride from the time that you were here, we didn't score a goal.
00:07:14
Zak
that's And that's the problem. Like, if that was...
00:07:16
DailySaintsPod
But in a way, he's right, though, because i remember that game so vividly. And it's a game where we absolutely battered them.
00:07:22
Zak
We should have won.
00:07:23
DailySaintsPod
It should have been 4-5-0. It's just insane. So i kind of understand where he's getting at. But it's not, when you're in that moment when the results are going as poorly as they are, it's not what you want to hear from your manager, to be honest.
00:07:34
DailySaintsPod
And...
00:07:35
Zak
No, but like that, to be to be fair, this was him being reflective on it and not quite, you know, knowing how it was going to work out. And, you know, there was a lot that just didn't click. And part of why I think, you know, it went so well for Tonda is, you know, if you're one of the opposition or... or even vast majority of our fan base, you could maybe put it down all to the spying. I don't think that's solely necessarily the case. I'm still... I still don't know how feel about it. Like, trying to morally grandstand in football is, like, laughable, considering it's like, we're removing gambling from the front of shirts. Like... However...
00:08:13
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:08:13
Zak
however
00:08:14
DailySaintsPod
I'm sure that we'll get plenty on time.
00:08:16
Zak
however We'll have a whole conversation about that, maybe if you know we get told whether or not he's staying on or what.
00:08:19
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:08:21
Zak
But like it it you can't morally grandstand around that stuff.
00:08:21
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:08:26
Zak
But when it comes to you know what Tonda was able to achieve, part of it, I think, is also due to the fact they shipped out all the players that were there in January, because when Tonda came in and had his winning streak, he did fail a few times after that, right?
00:08:36
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:08:40
Zak
We had the 4-0 loss at Middlesbrough. That wasn't under Will Steele.
00:08:42
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:08:45
Zak
That was under Tonda. And whilst...
00:08:47
DailySaintsPod
Well, that's the thing, right? Because if you... I remember back, like, we come into the season full of optimism. We've got that game at Wrexham. It's, you know, early kickoff at St. Mary's. All of the Disney cameras are there. It's all big and exciting. And then...
00:09:02
DailySaintsPod
We managed to win, but not in the most decisive of manners. We were 1-0 down and get two goals in... Well, I think Manning's free kick was, what, the 90th minute? And then Stephens got one at the very end of stoppage time.
00:09:16
Zak
Yeah, from defenders.
00:09:16
DailySaintsPod
And then what? We didn't... Yeah, and then we didn't actually win another game until September. Until, like, the end of September.
00:09:28
DailySaintsPod
So it's it was... this prick tough Go in.
00:09:32
Zak
trying to Trying to put back together trying to put that together a fractured dressing room, especially with everything we've heard about Jurich.
00:09:33
DailySaintsPod
I remember coming into the the South Coast derby at home with concern.
00:09:44
DailySaintsPod
Like, just, are they actually going to be able to show up and play in a way that's not just going to, you know, have Pompey absolutely batter us?
00:09:50
Zak
We had debuts, right? right but had like Finna Zaz making his debut and things like that.
00:09:52
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:09:55
Zak
Like there were, yeah, yeah there was there was, I think there was well too much work to do for any one manager in such a little piece of time. And i I think that still was an unfortunate casualty of that.
00:10:08
Zak
And i but I still don't know whether or not, even if everything fell into place perfectly, whether or not, you know, the three at the back would have worked. Because clearly, after we changed from that, it it got better.
00:10:21
Zak
And that can be due to the fact that, you know, we had Stewart get fit again and get into those positions and stuff like that.
00:10:27
DailySaintsPod
Well, that's the thing, right? because Because that win at the end of September was that Sheffield United game and all of a sudden you start to think, I think the whole season up to that point, all of what we'd been saying was, or certainly I'd been saying was, all of the pieces seemed to be there, but just waiting for it to like actually click together nicely.
00:10:46
DailySaintsPod
Yeah. And i like you say, whether that was the change of formation specifically or just Stuart getting back to fitness, obviously he came back and scored in that Sheffield United game twice, two incredible goals.
00:11:01
DailySaintsPod
and and But in that week, that was like the three-game week where we decided to play him for far more minutes than anyone looking on would have played him for, right?
00:11:11
Zak
Mmm.
00:11:12
DailySaintsPod
And then he picked up another injury. So...
00:11:14
Zak
Yeah, but again, like I can't understand why, because I think the other biggest problem is that Steele had this giant squad and was trying to figure out who to play and when to play and how.
00:11:22
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:11:25
Zak
And, you know, decisions were made where I don't know if it was him or Spores that sent Bree out on loan. but was wild. And again, this is due to the trying to play this specific formation. We had the entirety of the shift of defence, where at one point it was like quasi...
00:11:39
Zak
What, like... Edwards and like Wood as like the the preferable back three, if you'd call it that. Yeah, I just...
00:11:47
DailySaintsPod
Well, you look at this, I picked i picked a game, I picked the Swansea game that we were talking about out of random.
00:11:52
Zak
a
00:11:53
DailySaintsPod
Let's take a look at the starting lineup and here go. You've got McCarthy in goal, which is a problem in itself, right? Yalert, who was bought off after 70 minutes for Fellows.
00:12:05
DailySaintsPod
Edwards, Wood and Harwood-Bellis as a back three. Wellington, Armstrong playing in midfield with Yander and Charles. Sienza playing on the left and Archer up front.
00:12:18
Zak
Yeah, it's just, what do you say to that? that's That's the problem, is that I don't think he ever managed to find a place where the formation worked and where he got the right, you know, if you want to use a corporate term, synergy between the players or whatever.
00:12:24
DailySaintsPod
No.
00:12:30
DailySaintsPod
Hmm.
00:12:31
Zak
And you could just tell.
00:12:32
DailySaintsPod
That's just if, you know, that's a team that's going to try and play football in a certain way, I guess. But know that one of the big things that Tonda looked at when he came in was like physical presence on the pitch.
00:12:45
DailySaintsPod
And if you're looking at tall physical players in that lineup, you've got Harwood Bellis and Shea Charles.
00:12:56
DailySaintsPod
Like, Ronnie Edwards for a centre-back is not
00:12:57
Zak
Yeah.
00:12:59
DailySaintsPod
a big center back. Yeah.
00:13:01
Zak
And you've got to wonder as well, like, what conversations are having, you know, the amount conversations as a manager potentially he's having to have every day with various different players that want to play. You know, he's having enough conversations with a Rebo.
00:13:11
Zak
Like, we have no idea what went on with the Dozie. We never will, but he he is adamant that he was fit and ready to play from day one.
00:13:17
DailySaintsPod
yeah
00:13:17
Zak
there was so There's so much going on, like an abundance of, you know, Armstrong not being like being played out of position, but also, you know, Cam Archer trying to break into the squad, Armstrong being the top goal scorer, but also not really getting to the end of certain game. It just it just seemed like there wasn't a... you know you like You were talking about when Tonda was in charge of having Team Monday and Team Saturday...
00:13:41
Zak
There was absolutely no level of like understanding. Part of it, as you pointed out, is things like the reason McCarthy was in was because Baz started the season and then started to really struggle. And the only person they could have put in goal other than Baz was McCarthy.
00:13:55
Zak
And he also wasn't that great.
00:13:55
DailySaintsPod
yeah
00:13:57
Zak
And then we ended up in that horrible perpetual cycle we've been in between Baz and McCarthy where... McCarthy's just getting old and that's understandable. And like, I still remember the the conversation that you had, where you you telling me about how you had a chat with him when we were signing shirts. This was like back just before return to the Premier League. Be like, Golden Glove this year, McCarthy, right?
00:14:17
Zak
And him that just bursting out laughing at you. Genuinely, don't know that sticks in my mind so much, but like, you know, I don't expect every goalkeeper to back themselves the point they're like, yeah i'm going to win the Golden Glove for the Premier League.
00:14:28
Zak
But like, but you when they know that like, they're here as backup, right? And that's how he played a lot of the times. And and again, that was a failure from a recruitment standpoint to not do it, especially when you know they they put all of their faith in Baz.
00:14:42
Zak
And that's not necessarily a bad thing to try and trust a young player, but also it's a lot of pressure to put on a guy who struggled in the Premier League, went out on loan, picked up an injury on loan, and also then you know come back and...
00:14:55
Zak
yeah just a lot of a lot of decisions didn't help still, but also there's a lot of decisions that he had made where it just took him too long to figure out a working solution.
00:15:05
Zak
and like you know oh I was there that Preston game.
00:15:05
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:15:07
Zak
You're just sat there and you're just watching him and you're like, you're watching the flight team and the players and you're like, man, it feels like nothing, like, no, no, we still don't have like an identity or a team.
00:15:19
Zak
The only, the only thing that I remember at one point that we established was, okay, turns out edward qua Edwards, Quasi and maybe Taylor or Wood are actually quite like a good back three in this weird system.
00:15:31
Zak
And even then it was like, all of them were prone to a mistake. It was just, yeah, it it took, it took a lot to get to where,
00:15:35
DailySaintsPod
Hmm.
00:15:41
Zak
we are now. And I feel really bad for still, but also, you know, we were, we had a lot of confidence. He was probably out of all of the choices that we'd looked at one that I was the most excited for.
00:15:52
Zak
And it, yeah, it just, it just fell a bit flat in it. And even he kind of feels that. And I think that's not necessarily any disrespect to him. It's just, I think, you know, if people immediately day one were pointing out that he's quite stoic.
00:16:07
Zak
And I think that after a season of, you know, what we could only refer to as trauma in the Premier League, they needed someone to, you know, used something best mate when like, they know how to play football, but they need someone to like remind them that they're good at it.
00:16:24
Zak
And he was very much like, right, so here's how we'll set up this coaching tactic and you pass to this person to here, to here, to here. Whereas actually what they needed was a bit of reinvigoration, right? Yeah.
00:16:36
Zak
And it it turned out that, like, you know, the young German guy Tonda who has a passion for the game, clearly, regardless of current circumstances, didn't quite pay off, did it?
00:16:49
Zak
I've said a lot words, mate.
00:16:49
DailySaintsPod
No.
00:16:50
Zak
Sorry. so It's just like, again, when you said, like, short, you know, short sort of not a proper deep dive, that is very much like code for Zach's going to run for, like, an entire episode.
00:16:51
DailySaintsPod
No,
00:17:02
DailySaintsPod
no, no, no, no.
00:17:03
Zak
Then we'll talk about the stuff that's actually important.
00:17:04
DailySaintsPod
It's... it's more that It's more that it's vibes more than like technical detail. It's what we're here for. You're right, mate. That Preston game was...
00:17:16
DailySaintsPod
Boy, that was something, wasn't it? it It spoke volumes to me because I think it was that Preston game...
00:17:25
DailySaintsPod
where, I mean, you you felt it in the stadium. It was so abundantly clear, but it was it was a reboot coming on in the 86th minute. And I'm like, okay, this is what we as fans have been calling for.
00:17:42
DailySaintsPod
Like, he's been dropped all season. We're not sure why. he's a player that's a versatile player. We, this is what we should be looking for to solidify us. And he came on and he was the least fit I'd ever seen him look like he'd forgotten how to kick a ball.
00:17:58
DailySaintsPod
And I'm like, there's no way we'll still has seen him in training playing like this and gone. He deserves to be in the starting lineup. This is Will still giving in to the outside noise and the outside pressure, like it's seeping in.
00:18:12
DailySaintsPod
And look, the writing was on the wall. I mean, you could you could feel the atmosphere in stadium. It turned towards Sports Republic, and that was always what they were going to do, was to me, to get rid of the manager.
00:18:23
DailySaintsPod
and And yeah. And I mean, hit the impact Tonda had... walls was instant, right? Four wins in an insane turnover somehow.
00:18:37
Zak
Well, i'll see you what the thing is, just like pete you know people talk about giving him the job permanently. And I remember it was funny because of how many how many people are now like willing to to follow him into like the depths of hell, right? Considering that you know we we're at a weird crossroads where more people are now just going, well, if we're going to be hated, we may as well just back him anyway. And what I actually think is like, you know, it's one, I think you, you sum that bit up perfectly as well, mate, where to be honest, it's going to be up to the players and no one else. if The players will play for him.
00:19:09
Zak
Then i imagine that he'll stay from a financial perspective. It makes more sense. If they won't, they'll have to do something about it.
00:19:15
DailySaintsPod
Yeah. And I mean, from the reports we've seen, although admittedly, I know that Alfie put it in the Echo, but the only source that he had quoted was from the Sun.
00:19:25
DailySaintsPod
So I just don't know. I mean, don't know.
00:19:27
Zak
Yeah, plus the role of the dice apparently some players obviously weren't happy about it because, you know, you miss out on a massive, essentially, promotion in your job due to the fact that your boss has done something dodgy.
00:19:29
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:19:33
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:19:39
Zak
You're not going happy about it. However, I think that you're going to have a divided dressing room either way.
00:19:43
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:19:44
Zak
And I think it'll be very interesting to see who leaves and who stays. Because I think if from a behaviour perspective, there'll be some people that just want to leave for the sake of it.
00:19:47
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:19:51
Zak
You've just got a hope that the players that want to stay and the players that want in to stay, and if they get their way... it's a good thing. And, you know, it's instead of like, oh, it turns out that all of our best players are the ones that are annoyed and want to leave.
00:20:04
Zak
us that' That's kind of where I'm at with it all.
00:20:06
DailySaintsPod
So so here's the here's a question that but I've been thinking about, mate. I'm just going to throw this at you with complete surprise because it's it's how I do my best work.
00:20:14
Zak
It's fine. i prefer that.
00:20:15
DailySaintsPod
those Those four games that Tonda won as interim manager, QPR, who were, I mean, just the definition of mid-table this season, right?
00:20:20
Zak
Hmm?
00:20:26
DailySaintsPod
they They were just smack bang in the middle. Sheffield Wednesday, who everybody except Portsmouth beat. Cholton, who were at the top of the table at the time, but very much starting their downward trend at this point of the season – and especially as they were missing you know their key player at time, Bree, before we put him back. And then Leicester, who obviously ended up relegated. So the question I want to ask is, if we had enough sacked Will Steele and he was still in charge, do you think he also goes on to win those four games and turn it around?
00:21:05
DailySaintsPod
Because paper...
00:21:05
Zak
Hmm.
00:21:08
DailySaintsPod
on paper Decades we should have won anyway because of the quality of the opponent, right?
Team's Response to Managerial Changes
00:21:14
DailySaintsPod
And I know that you could have said that against about some of the teams that we didn't beat earlier in the season, but but also, like, that felt like right time, right place.
00:21:14
Zak
Yeah.
00:21:24
Zak
I think that would also be my point, though, because, again, like I think that... I don't know if it's attention to detail in training or what, but as you pointed out, I think by that point, Will Steel was just throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what stuck, and I don't think that another week of him doing that was going to make a blind bit of difference. And I don't think that you know the players were going to respond to it. I think that if you'd already had players that had potentially made their mind up about the manager at that point,
00:21:51
Zak
you know none of None of them came out and said they were devastated, really, did they?
00:21:51
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:21:54
Zak
i don't even remember. so I think I don't remember if I saw anything about, you know, we're so sorry to lose you, Gaff, or anything like that.
00:21:55
DailySaintsPod
No.
00:22:01
DailySaintsPod
No.
00:22:01
Zak
like bit Again, to be clear, there might have been one or two, like I just can't remember.
00:22:01
DailySaintsPod
a
00:22:04
Zak
So i'm not going
00:22:05
DailySaintsPod
the The only thing I saw, obviously there was that rumour not long before we lost Will Steele that a championship captain had gone yeah a championship captain had gone to the the board effectively and and said that the manager wanted the manager gone and the team weren't going to play for him.
00:22:12
Zak
Stephens has fallen out of it, right?
00:22:23
DailySaintsPod
And there was a rumour that it was us and it was quite heavily rumoured that it was us. And Stevens, after the fact, went no, I still have a great relationship with Will.
00:22:33
Zak
Yeah.
00:22:34
DailySaintsPod
But I mean, i' very media-trained answer, isn't it?
00:22:35
Zak
We poo-pooed it because of that reason. Yeah.
00:22:49
DailySaintsPod
it's It's so hard without having all of the information there, isn't it? But I mean, you're right, because actually, you know, as much as I asked the question, i mean, we saw the difference in the way we played immediately with with these teams.
00:23:02
Zak
the The better question is if we'd hired somebody else, would that have also happened?
00:23:06
DailySaintsPod
yeah
00:23:07
Zak
And I also think that, you know, depending on the level of new manager bounce, then yeah, maybe. If they had persisted with a system that that stuck in place, right?
00:23:11
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:23:14
Zak
This is like the whole martin Russell Martin left and then we had Ivan Juric come in and supposedly play this new type of football and then just didn't. And then Rusk, who just was like, please don't concede any goals.
00:23:25
Zak
And that seemed to be his entire job. And, you know, even going back before then, when like Hasenhu all left and then Nathan Jones came in, everyone went, well, we're going to play the same way we've played forever because we don't care.
00:23:37
Zak
And then like when he started, I was basically after his last game or before his last game, where he's like, I'm going start doing things my way. And you're like, okay. And that went bad. And then Celeste kind of just like...
00:23:46
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:23:49
Zak
played some football, but like, that's always been a, been a thing. So it depends. Would somebody have come in and changed things, you know, would eventually just go, and well, actually we're going to play like football normally or, or not.
00:24:00
Zak
And I think that, right.
00:24:01
DailySaintsPod
I just don't know, mate, because if we're being honest, the names that were thrown about at the time were not inspiring confidence. In the same way that a lot of the reason that many of the fans who might have been more hostile towards Tonda, who have probably come around now, like I've seen the polls, they're pretty close, but more of them I have seen swing towards keep Tonda than lose. And part of that has to be down to...
00:24:29
DailySaintsPod
what the other names in the mix are, right? Because they're not awe-inspiring.
00:24:31
Zak
Yeah.
00:24:33
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:24:33
Zak
Well, not really that. Like some of the, some of the names that people are throwing, have thrown our way. And you're just kind of like, really? You think that we're going to get that manager? So, oh, well, we' we've got a lot. And again, I don't know if it's like a level of arrogance that we've always thought we can get what I would consider to be better managers.
00:24:49
Zak
And it's like, The reason we've had like a Pochettino and a Koeman isn't because we got them in the height of their managerial career.
00:24:55
DailySaintsPod
No, we took them on as our names.
00:24:55
Zak
Like Pochettino, most of us didn't even know who he was. And Koeman, like, you know, okay, now he's running the you know Dutch national team, but he left us to go on to Everton didn't exactly like things alive there.
00:24:58
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:25:06
Zak
And same with Barcelona. But... a
00:25:09
DailySaintsPod
The funniest suggestion I've heard of all of them was ex-Middlesborough player, let me remind you, Gareth Southgate, which is so funny for so many reasons.
00:25:20
Zak
Well, yeah, I guess again, like moral grandstanding, that would work for you, right?
00:25:36
DailySaintsPod
John Monsigno, the Pompey manager, ju is his favourite, which is ridiculous.
00:25:40
Zak
that's That's very funny.
00:25:42
DailySaintsPod
And, you know...
00:25:43
Zak
That's how Sports Republic killed any of the hope that they still had in any Saints fan by your hiring an ex-Pompe manager.
00:25:44
DailySaintsPod
Yeah. Yeah. you know, then it then it's the usual mix, right?
00:25:50
Zak
Yeah, I'm sure.
00:25:53
DailySaintsPod
Sean Dyche, Lee Carsley, Scott Parker, fine, right?
00:25:56
Zak
Okay, so Scott Parker for to lead another promotion race to then not keep someone in the Premier League.
00:25:59
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:26:01
DailySaintsPod
And then am then the classic, slightly higher price, but always there, Ralph Hasenhutl and Steven Gerrard. Like... it's
00:26:01
Zak
Perfect.
00:26:12
Zak
Yeah, exactly. So people go... And then the problem is is that people do not trust Sports Republic's got like you know foresight and ability to hire a manager, which is really funny because Tonda was an under-21s manager brought in by Sports Republic.
00:26:27
DailySaintsPod
Yeah, 100%.
00:26:28
Zak
And this is what I always find baffling. is like It's always a a juxtaposition where I don't trust them to make the correct decision and I feel like they're going to mess all up by firing the him.
00:26:39
Zak
Whereas in actuality, the only reason we have him is because they made a bunch of decisions. They could have they could have just... you know i wouldn't be half surprised if we ended up with Adam Lallana of a panic, right? Because Tonda was essentially also a panic.
00:26:49
DailySaintsPod
Yeah. hundred percent
00:26:51
Zak
and And we felt that way the end of the season where like Rusk was... you know His deputy when this was Adam Lallana. There's not... There's a lot. I can understand where people are at. And I think that everyone's slightly conflicted at moment.
00:27:04
Zak
And there are those that, you know, from a morale perspective, I just don't want him anywhere near the club. And again, I think we're going to go into this season for like the third or fourth time, the most divided we've ever been as a fan base again, which is great.
00:27:16
DailySaintsPod
mean I mean, there there are ways to mitigate it, right? A couple of apologetic statements from him and a couple of strongly backed messages for him from players and and we sort of start seeing comments.
00:27:28
Zak
I've told you before, i don't I don't think that's the case because I think that there is a whole other side to it, such as the corporate side to it, that is a problem.
00:27:29
DailySaintsPod
Hmm.
00:27:35
Zak
Because you have you have so many sponsors for this club that they are going to have to be talking to that would have at least have expected the shot to be had, right, going up to the Premier League and increasing their exposure that's basically been...
00:27:50
Zak
you know, done by rule breaking. And they, we already know that from a financial standpoint, it's not like they can turn around and go, well, we'll give you a higher percentage of profits. This, you know, we'll, we'll cut our cut down because they can't afford to.
00:28:02
Zak
you So I think that there are, there are so many things that they need to consider And I don't like, you know, similar, similar to the way that I feel about politics, mate, which, you know, is always dangerous to talk about on our podcast.
00:28:14
Zak
But it's more that I think that a lot of people seem to have a lot more trust in faith in people's ability to do something. When in actuality, most of them are trying to figure out at the time.
Management Decisions and Media Influence
00:28:27
Zak
And that's kind of how I feel is that I don't think there was a plan for this in place.
00:28:27
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:28:30
Zak
And I think that, you know, they're not some like all seeing eye. They're going to be sat in a boardroom going, How hell do we deal with this mess? and I think we're currently still in the middle the middle of that storm, right?
00:28:42
Zak
And we're not even near the eye at the moment. And, you know, they have just left it from a media perspective to for nothing to be said, right? Like we still haven't heard anything other than the fact that there's going to be boxing soon.
00:28:55
Zak
Oh no, tell them, there was that update that went, please stop asking us for refunds. They're going to be coming Monday, Tuesday. And what they mean by that is, can you stop calling our call centre?
00:29:03
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:29:05
Zak
The staff are all going quit. Because, you know, they can't make the refund go in your bank account any any faster.
00:29:07
DailySaintsPod
Yeah. It's not their fault.
00:29:13
Zak
But like, but yeah, i just I just don't, so I don't know what the answer would be, but I also have a feeling that like finances will pay a big bit and they might take the hit on advertisers because they don't want to pay compensation.
00:29:25
Zak
Plus the we don't know anything about what's going on with the, we don't know anything. And they're just letting us like give huge stew
00:29:30
DailySaintsPod
Hang on, mate. I missed this. I haven't been on the Saints website today. There was a post on the Saints website today that that we missed.
00:29:40
Zak
Oh, good.
00:29:41
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:29:41
Zak
Come on. let's Let's do it live.
00:29:42
DailySaintsPod
Commemorating the 110th anniversary of the Battle of Jutland.
00:29:49
Zak
You're right. This is like Leicester rolling out Claudio Randieri yesterday for their match for how how great it's been since they won the Premier League. And then everyone, like you know as they go down into League One with the... Yeah, it's just... I think that you know to but we get towards yeah the sort of Tom De Raine and how...
00:30:07
Zak
how good the feel-good atmosphere has been and how good some of those games were and how incredible some of these players have, you know, put them put themselves through the absolute w ringer to get where we were at the end of the season, all for it to kind of just mean nothing.
00:30:22
Zak
and us now rolling to next season, having another season in the Championship. And it was like when we talked about transfers, we were like, wow, there's going to be a plan for if we stay in the Championship and a plan for if we go up.
00:30:30
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:30:32
Zak
There was never a plan for if we stay in the Championship due to breaking some rules that, draconic or not, unfortunately, we have had to suffer the punishment for.
00:30:37
DailySaintsPod
the
00:30:41
Zak
And that will probably have an effect on enticing players to the club.
00:30:41
DailySaintsPod
yeah
00:30:44
Zak
because It's like, hey, do you want to turn up and play for this new club? By the way, every single time you play away, you will be called a cheater, despite the fact that you have only joined here from like Spain or Belgium, etc.
00:30:56
Zak
this year. It's just so much...
00:30:57
DailySaintsPod
yeah So I mean, like look, bearing in mind the the reports from The Sun kind of say that Tonda stepped up and took the flack for it, but actually was effectively... It wasn't his plan. He just, you know, did it.
00:31:13
DailySaintsPod
And, you know, obviously some of the text and stuff, yeah I guess it makes sense, right? Just just get something better. there' There's going to be so much missing context from all of it, I guess. But...
00:31:25
DailySaintsPod
But bearing that in mind, or or trying to use that as mitigation, Matchday Vlogs asked a great question on one of their lives the other day that that I liked.
00:31:31
Zak
Hmm.
00:31:36
DailySaintsPod
Would the feeling be, yeah or how different would it be, or would you feel, or how would you feel if it wasn't like this and with all the scandal and nonsense, but we'd lost at Wembley?
00:31:50
Zak
Well, there's no scandal and nonsense that I think that if we left everything out on the field and we just lost the game fairly, we lost the game fairly. And at that point, like, the the debate about whether we went up or not, when we whether or not we kept on to we'd already decided about 10 games before the end of the season, mate, wasn't a debate anymore.
00:32:08
Zak
That wasn't a conversation. i was like
00:32:09
DailySaintsPod
agree.
00:32:10
Zak
10-15 games after he came in, after he was permanent, people were still talking about whether he's going to be manager under the season.
00:32:15
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:32:16
Zak
And that went away entirely. But the problem is, the reality of the situation is that the reason we were thrown out was nothing to do with the football.
00:32:18
DailySaintsPod
Yeah. And
00:32:22
Zak
And that's...
00:32:22
DailySaintsPod
But that that, for me, combined with this sort of news that the players are still brought in and believe that he's the coach to do it, is is kind of enough for me to accept him staying on.
Spygate Scandal and Its Ramifications
00:32:36
DailySaintsPod
Obviously, that all could go up in smoke if the FA come out and ban him anyway. But I don't know.
00:32:41
Zak
this is This is the other thing is that if they're hedging their bets on like, how long is it going to take the FA to do that? The reason that the rest of this whole thing took place so quickly was because of the fact there was an FA Cup final to play.
00:32:52
Zak
FA Cup final, sorry. Good, next gracious. We weren't in that one. Playoff final to play, right?
00:32:57
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:32:57
Zak
That's why it got moved up. So how long is this FA thing going be? Do we decide to keep him? We go we start the new season, we get to like October, and then he gets sanctioned, fired, and we have to find a new manager.
00:33:09
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:33:09
Zak
Could you imagine the disaster? And then, okay again, like this is, again, partly down due to their choices, and then we'd have to figure out what to do. And then we'll have this not another season of like turmoil.
00:33:20
Zak
I don't remember the last time we said we had a season that wasn't. Sometimes I envy being like a mid-table championship or Premier League team where nothing happens each season. you know, no offence to a stoke, but like a stoke, right? You're going to finish 16th or 17th every single season for the foreseeable future.
00:33:37
Zak
But the the the swings and roundabouts of that is, you don't need to go through like... potentially your club being liquidated or alternatively having people say extremely not nice things to you due to something that an intern did probably many times let's face it over the course of or actually again my favourite one the fact that we should have known spying was taking place as fans because the team did so well that obviously the only way was to cheat as opposed to
00:34:04
DailySaintsPod
I mean even's yeah even the suggestion that like the players knew
00:34:09
Zak
I'll admit that rattled me
00:34:12
DailySaintsPod
Or even like the suggestion of the players. If you think that the players are clued in enough to anything, like if they hear even hearing in the phrase, oh yeah, this from their training ground, i'm probably thinking, yeah, that's just normal. I mean, oh again, I would be surprised if it's widespread in football. We've so we've seen it come out in the post, other you know Premier League managers and other European managers saying that it is widespread in other countries anyway.
00:34:37
Zak
just legalize at that point.
00:34:37
DailySaintsPod
You know, if just this
00:34:39
Zak
If that's what it is, do you do what the Germans do?
00:34:40
DailySaintsPod
And like, did we do it more than the three that we've got caught for?
00:34:41
Zak
you Just let them go into training ground to record each other?
00:34:47
Zak
Yes.
00:34:48
DailySaintsPod
Probably, almost definitely. Did we do it for every game? No, because some clubs actually take their training ground security seriously. Like, I visited Staplewood, if you and I know for a fact that nobody would be able to spy on first training team training from Staplewood.
00:34:58
Zak
It's just...
00:35:07
DailySaintsPod
I got taken on a tour of Staplewood whilst first team training was taking place and we were not allowed anywhere near it the pitch to monitor it. And we were Saints fans, right?
00:35:17
DailySaintsPod
Like...
00:35:17
Zak
Yeah, the thing is, is i I will defend every other club in that sense, because it's nothing to do with, like, that that is 100% the ability to afford to actually put in that level of security, right?
00:35:26
DailySaintsPod
Yeah, 100%. But... No, but that's what I'm...
00:35:28
Zak
And not every club could afford to do that, which, again, is what it is. So I'm not going to say...
00:35:34
DailySaintsPod
no but that's what
00:35:35
Zak
No rules, and we got punished for it.
00:35:36
DailySaintsPod
i I get that, 100%.
00:35:38
Zak
It's the
00:35:38
DailySaintsPod
But I'm just saying, like the fact that those measures are in place for some clubs mean, by definition, we were not going to be able to do it for every club. So, you know, all of these games in this 20-game run,
00:35:53
DailySaintsPod
He can't put it all down to it. And again, you know the the whole discussion before the punishment was dished out was obviously the the decision was it doesn't matter if an advantage was actually gained because it was attempted to be gained. And that's fine. Accepting that rule ruling and that judgment, right? But taking a step to try and think towards how the players and everyone are going to be feeling about this. Is getting 10 minutes of footage from someone's training session two and a half days before a match going to affect the game more or less than someone diving in the box and getting a penalty?
00:36:31
Zak
True, true and but my counter to that is that...
00:36:32
DailySaintsPod
or Or a goalkeeper lying down, feigning an injury to kill the momentum of the game and wasting time?
00:36:41
Zak
Well, that's every single final of every game I've watched this season so far.
00:36:41
DailySaintsPod
All right?
00:36:44
DailySaintsPod
Exactly, and and that affects the game way more, for sure, than...
00:36:45
Zak
But... well
00:36:50
Zak
I don't know if I necessarily believe it because if you are a really good analyst, that 10 minutes of footage can be really, really useful and more useful. Like if, again, it's going to go back to that Flynn Downs quote of it's like, oh, it's like he's going to tell us what's going to what what they're going to do next.
00:37:03
Zak
And if he is as good as his job as he seems to be, then the analytics part of it means that, you know, he has been able to, from their first team training, figure out how they're setting up.
00:37:04
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:37:06
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:37:12
Zak
And that is going to be a massive advantage if you are able to tell the player exactly what you're going to need to do to the to the opposing player in front of you. So I don't necessarily, regardless of how, I still think the punishment was pretty toron draconian.
00:37:24
Zak
I still think it's extreme. I feel like it's extreme for a reason. And I feel like ultimately, you know, we're we're being punished for what we're being punished for. We've been thrown out.
00:37:34
Zak
We've got another year in the championship is what it is. Again, i think it's going to be entirely decided whether all the players want to keep him or alternatively if Sports Republic can afford to do it.
00:37:41
DailySaintsPod
Hmm.
00:37:43
Zak
All I'm saying is that keeping him with what's going on and with the fact that he might just get fired is a risk. Saying nothing to the fan base is also a risk.
00:37:51
DailySaintsPod
But then, yeah, I fully agree. I fully agree that keeping me is a risk for so many reasons. But then also getting someone in new is is also a risk. And we've seen that time and time again, right?
00:38:01
DailySaintsPod
Because who's to say that they don't bring the the next Nathan Jones or the next even Juric in instead, right? Like, I just, yeah. I agree with you completely.
00:38:11
Zak
I think there's no perfect answer is the problem. There's no perfect...
00:38:15
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:38:16
Zak
And like ironically, I know we're talking more about the future, and this is supposed to be a retrospective, but the thing is, is we talked about we were still right up to Tonda being in, but it's hard to talk about the Tonda stuff without having this conversation because it's still ongoing.
00:38:29
Zak
And on top of that, it's hard to talk about it because we don't know, we never know the the effect that resulted in some of those games. We admitted to the ones we lost because is it makes us look a lot better, right?
00:38:36
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:38:40
Zak
But what if the reason,
00:38:40
DailySaintsPod
Well, yeah, so I mean, I i mean i read the the files actually, i don't think that it, I don't think that we put them forward as, oh yeah, we also did it at these games. Here's the evidence. They were teams that came forward with evidence and we said, yeah, we did that.
00:38:54
DailySaintsPod
And so so, that's what is. We also saw at least three other teams, according to the press, uh, Millwall and Dipswitch included and Norwich, uh,
00:39:05
DailySaintsPod
say, I might have evidence, but I want nothing to do with it, which leans even further into the more clubs are doing it than not, right?
00:39:16
Zak
Yeah, it's just, like, you know, if they need to then change the rules.
00:39:18
DailySaintsPod
We just stupid enough to get caught. And I mean, clearly, clearly the young nipper doing it was a better an analyst than he was hide and seek player.
00:39:22
Zak
That's going to be the case.
00:39:28
DailySaintsPod
So, but look,
00:39:30
Zak
Well, we don't even know if he was the only one that was doing it right. Like, they could have other people in the house.
00:39:33
DailySaintsPod
No, exactly. right know And look,
00:39:34
Zak
think it's...
00:39:37
DailySaintsPod
it it was a breach of the rules. It was against rules. The punishment was what it was from the reports of this, particularly the way we, although it was Ipswich that we did easily, right? And and had the covert unit they in easily tracksuit. You the go into those methods to do it.
00:39:55
DailySaintsPod
You know that you're doing wrong, right? So so it's, Red-handed, like 100%. And I still, like said, agree. The punishment is harsh, but it is what it is for the reason that it was.
00:40:09
DailySaintsPod
I'm just saying, when you when take all of those mitigations into a fact from a player's perspective of whether you're going to buy into the manager or not, or how much you put into any of that actually affecting the outcomes of the match...
00:40:22
DailySaintsPod
you know, more than than any of these other dark arts or grey areas that we see. i just I just don't think that there is that much. and And sure, there's the risk that the FA throw a ban at him.
00:40:34
DailySaintsPod
Although, i just... I mean, it seems... it would be crazy to me if that is the case at this point in the investigation, you know, from, from what we understand it, especially if the reports are true that whilst he owned up and took the responsibility because he's the manager and that's what he felt he needed to do. He, he did sign off on it, but it wasn't his idea. He didn't fully understand the rules or fully know like what was going on to some degree.
00:41:04
DailySaintsPod
I just, yeah, I think that, If enough of the squad are brought in, and let's face it, keeping the squad is is really what we want because of how good that that run-in was,
00:41:18
DailySaintsPod
then it's kind of more of a calculated risk than bringing someone else in that is a you know an unknown risk, right?
00:41:28
DailySaintsPod
Kind of like a known gamble versus an unknown gamble. And that's why I think that's where we'll end up heading.
00:41:31
Zak
Yeah.
00:41:34
Zak
And I think that's, yeah, and I think that's probably how everybody is feeling about it And again, you've now got the fact that, you know, one of the other other strong arguments I've seen for it is we'll see like, oh, we've asked for a bit of fight for years and win by any means necessary. And now we finally got it.
00:41:49
Zak
And I'm like, yeah, but the problem is, is you're alienating all the people that that feel awful about it. And I just, I just don't think there's a perfect way to answer this question.
00:41:57
DailySaintsPod
no.
00:41:58
Zak
And I don't think there's a perfect way to to go forward.
00:42:09
DailySaintsPod
I, I don't know if I've got enough of the data that I can confirm is real data to formulate a proper opinion is, is kind of where I'm at, but I'm fully on the fence at the moment.
00:42:21
Zak
It's very vibes-based and people are very much arguing over the circumstances.
00:42:26
Zak
But like I think, you know, from where we were directly after we found out we've been thrown out and the anger that's around it and also the fact that, you know,
00:42:32
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:42:34
Zak
the taking into account it was a quite emotional reaction but also it's because you know we went from it's like tell Harba Bellis with a binocular celebration right like him people saying oh the players must have known I'm like well I don't think he'd been that dumb to do that or I don't think he'd have apologized for it if he knew all along that's kind of where I'm at like I don't think he'd apologized for it
00:42:54
DailySaintsPod
It was an emotional outburst to the noise, irrelevant of the other stuff.
00:43:00
DailySaintsPod
it's It's the suffering caused by the media storm and the noise around it, right? Because, like I say, no player it is going to know enough about the rules or know enough detail about analysis or analysts to even think twice about what they're being told, right?
00:43:22
DailySaintsPod
we talk about people that still need to be coached to kick the ball around. Right? Like, it's...
00:43:28
Zak
yeah but that's that's what we'll see that's one one of the things i'll see because clearly if we because then there's there's arguments there that if we were that good at it we would have got second then this wouldn't even be a conversation which is which is interesting
00:43:37
DailySaintsPod
Well, yeah. Yeah.
00:43:40
Zak
But yeah, I think the problem is, is, you know, when we look the retrospective, I can just say that Will still isn't the right fit. And when it comes to Tonda, it's like built so much goodwill in Tonda we trust. like I think that the stuff that I struggle with personally is like us going through the whole of the season and thinking, oh, the tactical genius and, oh, trust any level of person he's bringing on.
00:44:00
Zak
Not knowing if the reason that he knew is because he knew the exact lineup of the other team. It's different if the other team decided to leak it, right? Like Garnaccio was anywhere.
00:44:09
DailySaintsPod
I but
00:44:11
Zak
It's different if you're getting information from what is essentially a public source. I just, yeah, just leaves a bit of a weird, like, and obviously next season, we're probably not going to do that. And then we might get exposed and we'll just have to see. And then it turns out that it's not. But again, all of these are risk factors we don't know. So I think that the Tonda stuff is like the memories that we had in the games that we won were great, but ultimately all of it was meaningless. Yeah. because we're going to start next season with a four-point deficit in the league. that you know the The good thing that happened from Tonda coming in was what we were worried about under Will Steele, which is, oh my God, are we going to get relegated again?
00:44:47
Zak
We didn't get relegated again. Everything else was just set dressing this point.
00:44:49
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:44:52
Zak
And... I think that's why, is that like it it it almost angers me that it takes away the meaning and like you know how important and how great it was and how some of those moments felt.
00:45:05
Zak
And I don't know whether or not you know the spying had a difference or not in some of those games, but the problem is it's always going to be in the back your mind now. And it's just tainted the season a little bit.
00:45:14
Zak
Flip side, i'm also not as extreme as I'm going burn my Saint shirt or whatever. like it's Huh.
00:45:19
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:45:20
Zak
So I guess, there you go, Greg.
00:45:21
DailySaintsPod
You're right. It's impossible to separate.
00:45:22
Zak
Conglomeration of emotions that are not quite over.
00:45:24
DailySaintsPod
you're right. is him It's impossible to separate the the way it all ended with... with the the joy that was before. And you're right, it's because it was actually, know, we talk a lot about, especially following Saints, being an emotional rollercoaster in the highs and the lows. And you can't enjoy the highs without the lows. But actually, it was just a jolt to go from what was feeling like the highest of highs, expecting a team to play at Wembley and and be probably be favourites for whoever we played at Wembley, especially going in to play Hull
00:45:58
DailySaintsPod
who obviously ended up going up, but to like the lower lows than we could ever have expected, because because that was how it ended. And you're right.
00:46:11
DailySaintsPod
is It's a shame, because otherwise it was a really good season, or at least a really good second half of the season. Yeah.
00:46:19
DailySaintsPod
yeah But that's that's how it'll be painted forever.
00:46:20
Zak
say Yeah, it's incredible. It's tainted.
00:46:22
DailySaintsPod
It'll never be, you know, when you look back in history at the seasons, it'll never be, you know, we look back and it's like, oh, that's the season we finished sixth. That's the season we won Inter Milan at the San Siro.
00:46:35
DailySaintsPod
That's the season.
00:46:35
Zak
That's the season with Spygate.
00:46:37
DailySaintsPod
And, you know, that's the season's fight.
00:46:37
Zak
It's not going to be the season we we we did a come a comeback 4-3.
00:46:40
DailySaintsPod
it's not yeah It's not going to be the season where we went on a 20-game unbeaten run in the league and got to an FA Cup semi-final. It's going to be the season of Spygate and forever tarnished.
00:46:50
Zak
Yes, it's not going to be the season where we we came back 4-3 for like the first time in history. It's not going to be the season we came back and you know we beat teams with the highest goal lines that we've seen in years.
00:47:01
Zak
it's not going to be It's not going to be remembered for the things that we want it to be remembered, regardless of whether we try and set the narrative. And I don't think that we're going to ever be able to set the narrative now.
00:47:08
DailySaintsPod
Hmm.
00:47:11
Zak
And, you know, there are going to be people that like, you know, doggedly defend the season, doggedly defend the players and the manager and this the other. Because I think everybody's found a different way of processing it because it's just a really weird, bizarre end to the season because there's never been anything like it because the team has never been thrown out of a promotion playoff like that before.
00:47:31
Zak
especially in those circumstances. And i think I think, you know, I knew that we were coming into a season of unpredictability from how we performed in the Premier League last year. I just didn't think it would be this level of underpredictable where at one point we thought we were going down, then we thought we'd managed to win the league.
00:47:48
Zak
then we managed to jump you know secure playoffs. I remember when we had that level that game where we we've got fell flat, right, because we drew with Bristol City. And then we're like, well, at least playoffs are confirmed. And then now it's ironic because it's like that day where we you know lost, drew to Bristol City and didn't beat them was actually pretty much you know the end.
00:48:06
Zak
Because if if not, we might have, yeah.
00:48:06
DailySaintsPod
The end the season. Yeah.
00:48:08
Zak
And and that's that's insane. it's It's just genuinely, it's so hard to to have... a collective feeling on all of this the whole season but like at least from the players perspective you know i'm sure we'll get into it with we've got like some end of season awards and obviously a deeper dive and stuff there's some incredible individual performances and some incredible stuff that unfortunately will go under the radar a little bit and be probably forgotten to the annals of time because of everything that surrounded it but you know we had some such eyes this season
00:48:32
DailySaintsPod
Hmm.
00:48:38
DailySaintsPod
Well, that's the thing, mate. We'll try and dig into some of them and and remember some of the positives in our deep dive, I guess, the next couple of days, because this was supposed to be the abridged version, and we're at 50 minutes.
00:48:49
Zak
yeah
00:48:52
DailySaintsPod
So...
00:48:52
Zak
you you You putting me in something with the word abridged is your fault. but You asking me about unfiltered thoughts on a situation.
00:48:59
DailySaintsPod
You're right. Well, look.
00:49:05
DailySaintsPod
You're right. But look, that is all we have got time for. And then some today. As alluded to, we're going to take a little look through and go into some finer details, look at some specific high points and low points, probably pick some out to go through for tomorrow. But until then, everyone, look, let us know how you're feeling, if you're back to the point of looking forward to next season or not yet.
00:49:29
DailySaintsPod
And just how you getting on. We are Daily Saints Pod absolutely everywhere. TikTok, Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, Blue Sky, X, everywhere. Hit us up, let us know.
00:49:42
DailySaintsPod
we love hearing from you. But until tomorrow, everyone, have a wonderful day, and we will see you then.