Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Craig Randall
1.9k Plays1 year ago
Craig Randall is a poet, author, and teacher who lives in beautiful Corvallis, OR with his wife, children, two cats and dog. A passionate advocate for mental-health, his body of work is a byproduct of his own battles with anxiety and depression and has served as a vehicle for empathy, healing, and connection. His works include two novels, The Doom that Came to Astoria, and The Dreams in the Pearl House (the first two books in The Northwest Trilogy) and two collections of poetry, To Chase the Sun, and Among the Wildflowers. A third novel and two more collections of poetry are coming soon.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Guest Overview
00:00:02
Speaker
You are listening to something rather than nothing. Creator and host Ken Zalante. Editor and producer Peter Bauer.
00:00:18
Speaker
This is Ken Volante with the Something Rather Than Nothing podcast, and I'll tell you right off the bat, I'm really excited to talk to Craig Randall, a writer-poet nearby Corvallis, Oregon. I'm in Albany, Oregon, Corvallis, known as the
00:00:34
Speaker
the main location campus of Oregon State University and just just to let you know on Craig writes poetry he's got a book series who started the the doom that came to Astoria and
00:00:52
Speaker
I've read the most recent collection of poetry among the wildflowers, and we're gonna be talking about writing, we're gonna be talking about art, and we're gonna be talking about mental health, overcoming, and growth and change. Craig Randall, thanks so much for coming to something rather than nothing.
00:01:15
Speaker
Oh, thanks so much for having me, Ken. I'm really excited. Yeah, I mean, again, just couldn't be more pumped to be able to really just talk about art with a fellow enthusiast.
The Transformative Power of Writing
00:01:29
Speaker
I mean, how fun it is to just nerd out and then to get to talk about the books, but really where they came from and what my hope is that they become or that they are to others.
00:01:41
Speaker
I love that word, Craig, hope, because my recent experience is just there's tons going on. My firm belief that the world is completely transforming and will not resemble in your time.
00:01:57
Speaker
what it did before. And amongst this, there's something beautiful about writing and beautiful about poetry, particularly as it presented.
Mental Health Journey
00:02:13
Speaker
I was reading Among the Wildflowers, and
00:02:16
Speaker
The beauty of thinking about flowers and growth, and within this volume, for everybody to understand, there's a deep, deep reckoning of transformation of what has come before into something that
00:02:36
Speaker
That is new. Craig, back behind this whole thing, back behind you doing art, it's so closely connected to healing and mental health. So that's right there. Tell us about where the writing comes from. Yeah. From you.
00:02:57
Speaker
Well, there's kind of a long time-wise to look at it, but the longer trajectory of it, and then there's kind of the more immediate kind of exigence or story behind it. But the big picture is I didn't realize it until I was probably 27. I'm 37 now.
00:03:17
Speaker
but I've struggled with anxiety and depression my whole life. But it was never talked about, so I had no idea. There was no language. As we were talking about expression even before we jumped on the show, it was never expressed to me culturally in my home, which was not to the fault of my home. It just wasn't normal. When we were growing up, people who went to therapy were cuckoo.
00:03:44
Speaker
And like it was yeah, yeah, it was it was it was the biggest stigma in the world, which I think that's changing. Yeah. Not probably as fast as it needs to be. Right. But so that I mean, that's the short end of it. When I got married when I was younger and then I was 27, though, when my oldest child was born and all of a sudden, even like, you know, I'd wake up super depressed, but I just thought that was normal when I got married.
00:04:14
Speaker
And then like my wife, I don't know, we found a way to kind of work around it basically. But then all of a sudden I had a child and I was like, oh, I'm not here, but I need to be here for this other human. So that really just skyrocketed me into this like 10 year journey now of healing. And I really started tackling things. I started going to therapy for the first time. I just wanted to put the pieces together. The funny thing was it wasn't really for me. And when it started, it was really for them.
00:04:43
Speaker
right? Which I think there's a lot there even to unpack of why wasn't I willing to do it for myself? Why wasn't I willing to do it for my own experience? I just wasn't on the radar. But the more immediate where these books came from, so I started
00:04:59
Speaker
taken anxiety meds about seven years ago. And it was revolution. It was life changing. Like, you know, I don't know if you've ever taken them, but for anybody that has. Yeah. Yeah. I've, I've, I've, I've received much, much help. It's amazing. Yeah. And like, there's always like, there's always a couple of day buffer when you have to adjust to them. Right. Which is just like when you're just jittery and you just pounded like 20 cups of coffee and the world is ending. But then all of a sudden you come out the other side. And I remember thinking like,
00:05:43
Speaker
I was just devouring books about the brain and healing and spiritual things to medical things, everything I
Writing as Healing
00:05:51
Speaker
could. And I'm an English teacher by trade and so I've always loved stories and whatnot. But I came to a point where I felt like I was doing really well. And for whatever reason, I had this maybe stigma in my head still that like,
00:05:51
Speaker
Is this what other people feel all the time?
00:06:07
Speaker
you're not going to be healed or normal until you're off the meds, which I think that's an entire different conversation, right? Yeah, of course. So I tried to go off of them and it just crashed. I tanked into a place that I had never been before in terms of anger and dark. It just ripped open every wound at once. It was crazy.
00:06:35
Speaker
In the months of recovering from that, I was meeting with a psychologist to kind of put the rails back together, right? It's like I had my negative thought patterns that had developed my whole life about the world, about myself. But I had built this other pathway of hope and like, oh, things can work. Things are OK. And then when I went off the meds, it just snapped.
00:06:57
Speaker
But I had this idea that I could. A quick rebound over to the other side of energy. It was nuts. But I had this, where a lot of people maybe who haven't had a chance to build a more positive frame, I had experienced it. So I knew it was possible. So I just went to work and I went to town to rebuild that road. In the midst of that, a psychologist is like, will you like reading and writing? Why don't you try some writing?
00:07:25
Speaker
You know, in hindsight, I showed up a month later at our next session with chapter one of the Doom that came to our story. And the first 20 poems of To Chase the Sun. And they were like, oh, I meant like journaling. But it was just how I processed it. Like the Doom series is literally about a character who's just analogous to me. And I put myself in this fictional world that has some sensational elements, you know, to kind of
00:07:53
Speaker
Because I just needed to know. I needed to know if I could hope and experience that again. But even bigger than that, I was teaching hero journey stuff to my students. And the more I was teaching about the hero journey, when I had crashed, the more I realized, I don't believe this is for me. And I was like, there's this ingrained. At that point, it was almost like,
00:08:17
Speaker
I don't, this, this map doesn't fit my experience. It's a story for other people or something. Exactly. Right. So you talk about like representation in media and in the world and I'm like, Oh my gosh. Like I just had to know, like, can I still be a hero if I struggle? Can I still be a hero if I don't? And I'm not talking about like the end of a book where the, where the, the whole dang thing, right? I just, yeah.
00:08:45
Speaker
So Doom was really born out of that. It was like this weird horror suspense story. And it totally, the whole structure of it changed. I wanted to know what a hero journey could look like for someone like me. And it's interesting because any negative feedback from Doom is generally somebody that's, I think, misunderstanding that. Because in like Star Wars, Luke Skywalker, in the first third of any hero journey, that's when the hero is like,
00:09:15
Speaker
has an opportunity and rejects it and then turns and starts their hero journey, like right from the beginning. But in Charlie's journey, that really doesn't happen until like the beginning of book three. So then the challenge became how do you still make that engaging? How do you, how does, you know, I don't know, to me it's been a really interesting study that's led me to a lot of healing. But, and then the poetry books are literally just autobiographical
00:09:42
Speaker
It's just me writing to understand the moments in the journey. So to chase the sun is about finding hope. And then among the wildflowers that just came out is about how do we cultivate it? Once we've experienced it, what does it look like to maintain it? What does it look like to
00:10:01
Speaker
Because I think that's something that I always misunderstood growing up too. I just thought hope was something you experienced or you didn't. It didn't occur to me that it's something we could generate galvanized. The generation of hope. Which I think we need right now more than ever, right? Thank you Craig. There's so much I connect to and I wanted to say particularly about among
00:10:23
Speaker
the wildflowers. What's been really cool on the show, on the podcast, is I talked to a lot of creators and I believe that the ground that's been cut for something rather than nothing opens up a ton. And recently, and I find it fascinating for me when
00:10:43
Speaker
themes and trends start to emerge within within the show and it could be just Organizing and connecting with people and poets no other poets and actors no other actors, but there's been the development of a couple pieces just recently of Poetry's already always been part of the podcast a matter of fact within the first ten episodes had two poets Bunkang twan
00:11:09
Speaker
a good friend of mine and Joanna Valenti, a similar last name to mine, but I've had poets on throughout and recently I've had more poets which allows me to go back into one component of my identity at different parts of my life as being connected to poetry and that power. I want to tell you something about Among the Wildflowers and it comes from the way I view it.
00:11:36
Speaker
I have a background in training, in practice, uneven over my life for the last 20, 25 years in Taoism, Buddhism, meditation, mindfulness. These poems are, and you explain it right at the beginning, are short haiku, a capturing of a spare amount of words
00:12:06
Speaker
which poetry does to hold images. And I can tell you one thing. These are healing words that that are that are that are that are so accessible. And even on the idea that there can be too many words if my head's all like, yeah, like, like, I don't necessarily I don't want to read
00:12:27
Speaker
you know, paradise lost and understand the cosmos. I want to understand, like, I want to understand putting the seed in the ground. And so I just wanted to tell you that in the idea of crystallizing idea and word and art as a healing piece, the that's what that's what these are. And I think they're significant in that way. And I would say that to anyone.
Influences and Writing Process
00:12:52
Speaker
I think they're particularly important in that way.
00:12:55
Speaker
Oh, thank you. I really appreciate that. And I think that's, again, like, the intriguing thing about this book is like mostly haiku and the next ones, there's even the next ones, there's going to be a third one and it's, it's longer, there's a lot more and it's more haiku, but there's also a lot more longer ones. First one's like an interesting mix. But when I started
00:13:20
Speaker
realizing when I started writing what became the first one, I started writing all of it without the intention or knowledge that it would publish. It's the interesting part of the process too. All of this was just writing for me. It's all tied directly to my healing. And then I shared it with some friends and they were like,
00:13:41
Speaker
other people need to read this or have the chance to experience this." And I was like, oh, that's been the thrilling part, right? Is like, my own journey can therefore, other people can see it in it, right? Because there's similarities. But when I was writing, I was teaching poetry in a different class when I was writing
00:14:03
Speaker
a lot of the things that went into To Chase the Sun, the first one. And it was interesting because I explained in the introduction of that one, I would start having a panic attack because it was so newly off the meds. And I'd read this book about the brain that talked about
00:14:21
Speaker
you know, trying to harness your thought pattern and writing can be a good way to do that. So as soon as you start having a panic attack, if you just sit down and start writing out and kind of grounding yourself in how you feel, it can go away sometimes. So I started doing, I started having a panic attack and I just grabbed my phone and started writing exactly how I felt.
00:14:39
Speaker
And then the nerd in me would go back to it later and be like, oh, there's almost a rhythm here. It's kind of fun. And then I would rearrange it. And then I was like, oh, this is cool. That actually sounds cool. It's just super depressing. Because it was not the panic effect. But none of those are in the book with intention. Yeah, that's just a process stuff. Exactly. And that's where it started. And then I'm sitting here teaching poetry to ninth graders and having a blast.
00:15:07
Speaker
We're talking about the tone shifts and the turns and where things resolve. It started striking me as I was reading this book about the brain. I was like, wait, why don't I start with how I'm feeling but end it with where I want to be. Use that poetic shift and tonal adjustment. Then the beautiful thing was when I would write that, it would take me there.
00:15:38
Speaker
And then all of a sudden, I would go from about to have a panic attack to more peace than I'd experienced in the whole week before. And it was just brilliant. It was like, oh my gosh. And where the haiku came from was, how do I get there faster? And also, I was writing the doom that came to a story, and my wife kept making fun of me because she's like, hey, this is a great 10 pages. Now make it two. So I was trying to practice cleverly.
00:16:03
Speaker
I was literally, I was like, oh, I'm going to start writing haiku so I can practice compressing ideas. I mean, literally it was, it started out as like a tactical idea. Yeah. Great idea. Yeah. It was like a tactical exercise. Um, but then they became like, and they're not necessarily even traditional haiku because most of the ones in this book, I almost try to connect two ideas. The first, first five syllables and half the second line, and then it shifts right at the middle.
00:16:28
Speaker
Finishes
Gender Roles and Mental Health
00:16:29
Speaker
that second line and then so there's almost my hope is to create this like juxtaposing and a lot of it with the flow and again, just Messing around having fun with the ideas, but Yeah, I yeah, and thanks. Thanks for talking about it, too Um, we're gonna jump into we're gonna bang out a couple art questions in a minute But one thing I wanted one thing I wanted to tell you on is
00:16:53
Speaker
Because I heard you talk in the realizations that we can discover. And hearing you talk about your experience, I have some strong parallels. I'm 50 years old.
00:17:09
Speaker
a lot of consideration around mental health for males in a gender dichotomous world I grew up in. Now, I want to tell you one little piece here that I think you'll find really interesting that I always remembered as a way almost to diagnose and see what was happening in my head and it's related to mindfulness and chaos.
00:17:39
Speaker
When I started meditating, I was in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. I was a graduate student in philosophy at Marquette University. The Jesuits gave me a scholarship to study philosophy at Marquette. So I'm from Rhode Island. I make my way out that way in my mid-20s.
00:18:02
Speaker
One of the first courses I took as a graduate student was Buddhism. So I was taking Plato, Aristotle, something else. No, and Buddhism was maybe the third graduate course at the time. I learned some meditation techniques, but check this out. What I noticed that I'd be at the meditation temple. And when I first went into meditation, I'm saying, there's no fucking way I can do this. Like my head is like,
00:18:31
Speaker
My head is like, you know, those like world war three scenarios, war games, like shit blowing up. I'm like, yeah, but within that type of activity, I believe I have a key to unlock. My mind can go from that.
00:18:49
Speaker
And with basic meditation techniques, I can achieve and get into a state that would astound others. I described it like there's no fucking way you can do it, Ken. Like in your head, cause like your head's always banging and going nuts. So check this out. I go into meditation and I noticed this trend that started to happen. I received some sort of difference or levelness. And I'd leave that spot. I'm walking and I go to the bar.
00:19:17
Speaker
I go to jazz bar right after, so I was feeling good, but I couldn't reside.
00:19:25
Speaker
Couldn't reside there. Couldn't reside in that space of evenness. So it was jazz music and it was drinking. I was like, fucking yeah, I'm living, right? And it was that opposite counterbalance. So in this experience, I was cognizant of myself enough to know being like, OK, that one's different from that one. And you keep bouncing. You keep bouncing from that end of the stadium to the other.
00:19:48
Speaker
it was a way of realizing the dynamic energy within my brain and what i was trying to do with it right so like my my head or mind was saying maybe you don't deserve to reside in this area this area is too boring it's too peaceful i don't know what to do with that and so it was a real um deep realization and it's a dynamic
00:20:12
Speaker
From that point on, I interact with highs and lows. That deserved piece is interesting, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's where so much of my journey, even within the last year, always coming back to that value judgment of what I deserve or not, right?
00:20:36
Speaker
And feeling and feeling that in that there's there's a nub there of and I think we're you know within within within suffering in an expression one of the things that One of the things that I've also realized in a journey on mental health is that how absolutely predominant women are
00:20:57
Speaker
Are in my life because i work in a profession where i represent maybe seventy five percent women indicated twelve profession my mom super important to me i've always been comfortable in learning and in prefer being around. Women so.
00:21:16
Speaker
there's a within the general gender dichotomy there there's other there's other um ability to grow and and realize and and and to um interact and understand in a in a different way and that's been very helpful for me to um you know what in a gender dichotomy in the generation i grew up with what feminine
00:21:44
Speaker
what feminine can be expressed, what comfort around femininity can be expressed from a male that the general dynamic people described it as thing happens, squish down next task, squish down next task, angry, squish down next task.
Art's Emotional Impact
00:22:05
Speaker
And, um,
00:22:07
Speaker
You know, I relate to that in in in very incredibly like that's that was my journey to like I think the things that I'm realizing are my strengths I hid for years because it was considered feminine and I wasn't a woman rock and roll lived in yes, I lived in Astoria for seven years and uh, which is a wonderful town, but it's interesting that like I feel like
00:22:33
Speaker
within the spectrum of the United States. And we lived in Europe for four years and I didn't see this there at all anywhere in any country I went to. It was interesting. It was like, there's always difference between the cities and rural towns.
00:22:47
Speaker
But it's like when I moved out to the coast from Portland, I'd lived in Portland my whole life, whom like most of my coastal friends called it the People's Republic of Portland, right? We were all communists. I was like, okay, I was literally like, some of my friends at the coast just called me their token communist friend. I just try to like, think of all people instead of- We've filled similar roles at times. Yeah, yeah, right. Whether asked for or not.
00:23:16
Speaker
Well, you know, you get like a couple of families together and the men always gravitate to the couches and the women gravitate to the kitchen. And I always ended up in the kitchen because they're conversation with me. A lot more relatable.
00:23:29
Speaker
I don't know I didn't I got tired of faking that I changed the brakes on my car Yeah, this is just uncanny everybody Craig and I connecting Craig's right down the road It's a it's it's it's it's so it's so great to connect in this manner everybody Craig and I gonna bang out some philosophy questions we're gonna rock and roll right in and
00:23:54
Speaker
Craig, you went to therapy, started writing on an assignment that writing has transformed into art. What is art? What is art? Oh, such a good question.
00:24:11
Speaker
Art is, well, I love, I was thinking through, cause you sent a couple of these questions over and I love that when I got, I answered the question, I was thinking through like what my answer was for what is art. And then I love that when I got down to like, you know, that idea of, you know, something rather than nothing, I feel like art, this is going to be abstract. Art is the something and without it, we are nothing. Like, I mean, if you look at,
00:24:41
Speaker
Hard mumbling here. No, no, no, no, no. I haven't had anybody connect it that quickly. I got to the bottom of the questions and I was like, oh, that's why the puck. I knew it made sense, but it makes deeper sense now. But to me, art is man's finest achievement.
00:25:09
Speaker
in making the abstract concrete, right? And like the poems in Among the Wildflowers, I think my favorite comment about my poetry is when I get people who like, I don't like poetry because I don't understand it, it makes me feel dumb. I like your poetry because I get it.
00:25:33
Speaker
and I can wrap my head around it, and it takes me to where I wanted to go anyway. And I was like, that's the greatest compliment, I feel like. That's a beauty. That's a beauty. Because art, to a certain degree, should be, it makes the inaccessible accessible, right? Why do we watch movies? Why do we go to plays? Why do we listen to music? We do it to be moved. When I feel a certain way, I put on certain albums, right?
00:26:01
Speaker
because I want to be transported to the way I want to feel. So art is the vehicle in that regard, right? I really appreciate your comments. It provides an opportunity. I saw a singer, an artist I adore, Sharon Nova,
00:26:24
Speaker
Yeah, and just an incredible singer. She's performed with the Decemberists on the Hazards of Love album.
00:26:36
Speaker
She's that spirit voice there. And I was over in Beaverton, Oregon, and part of the Oregon Symphony was playing with her, the Blue Hour, which was composed by four or five female composers.
00:26:55
Speaker
Sharon Nova I knew I knew Sharrow is going to be Ascending to this part of the piece And the biggest challenge within the piece. I only knew that I want to be able to necessarily recognize it musically the build-up, but it was there and She was singing this part and she does this to me a lot, you know, the chills were there two people two sections over yelped
00:27:23
Speaker
yelped when she hit that note almost in the same way they not even gasp was like
00:27:31
Speaker
And I was on the art moments in writing. It was like that person had no ability. There's no socialization of the response. It's like right out and that happened and- It's powerful. I interviewed Shara and I should remember the answer to questions. The only time I ever asked, I said, I've seen you two, three times, Shara.
00:27:57
Speaker
And I get those goosebumps. How the hell you do that? Like, you know, like we always want to ask somebody. It's an impossible question. Not. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know why physiologically your body did this. Yeah. No, that's a good. I mean, it's an X, but important things to to grapple with, though. Right. Like why evident? I don't know. Was my body needing something in that or was it
00:28:24
Speaker
Did I experience did I experience heaven or God or a muse? But I feel like that's where we're like story theory right or music theory like there's probably are these concrete explanations within that but not everybody understands those right like I'm since I started writing I've taught writing and reading and analyzing literature but since I started writing the doom that came to a story and
Writing and Emotional Mapping
00:28:53
Speaker
And I'm just finishing the third book now. It's been, I've read, you know, as many books as I can on the craft of story. And it is amazing to learn, you know, I was analyzing big components of it, but then to see the little fine brushstrokes that writers can like, Oh, if I, if I paint this over this way and create this emotion, then when I do this over here, it's going to create and bring hopefully the reader here.
00:29:21
Speaker
And it's been fun toying with that in my own writing. There's about five friends that will read all my books before I put them out. And I'm always looking for, my favorite is when I get a text from one of them. When the second book was coming out, I sent it to these five friends and within about the same time of the month where they were all reading along, I would just get the text message that said, I hate you.
00:29:48
Speaker
And then I knew that I'd accomplished my goal of getting them to feel a certain way at a certain time. Yeah. That intention, which again is just, I mean, that's been, that's a super, I think as a writer, that's a super rewarding part. Like did what I intended come out? Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's part of, you know, part of one of the things in conversation and just the idea of like maybe like podcasting or access and having the conversation allow other people
00:30:16
Speaker
Um, uh, to connect because, um, our art art art for me is like
00:30:27
Speaker
The one thing I can't fathom existence without, like, I mean, we can always say like, ear and water and all. So I'm saying poetically. I'm saying, why bother? Like, that is the power of art and particularly for sensitive folks in creation and in that piece. Quick, quick question on the the craft of writing. I haven't read too much about, but I was very I remember being very moved and finding very helpful.
00:31:11
Speaker
that I connect maybe even more strongly with, you know, I adore Stephen King, but I'm from New England. Oh, yeah. You guys have an extra one, but also I will never have with him. Yeah, it's like I get, you know, I can picture I'm from Rhode Island. He's up up there in Maine. But I his journey with addiction, I'm sober from alcohol for 13, 13 years and
00:31:23
Speaker
that's one of the
00:31:39
Speaker
You know, at the time, I think I was I was still drinking, but reading reading two things when he wrote. Kujo, he was on he was on he was on drinking a case of 16 ounce Budweiser's a night. Right. And cocaine. And somebody had asked him about the experience of Kujo. He's like, I don't fucking remember Kujo. I was going to ask. That's the one he didn't remember writing. Right. Because he was I don't know about a dog.
00:32:09
Speaker
sort of rabid dog. Sounds scary to me. Um, but, um, no, I, I think, uh, I, I just, I just noticed that, um, when you mentioned about like, you know, the structure of the craft too, which is like, ah, shit, but a way to, um, you know, get into, uh, an engaging way to look at writing and to look at the craft and what you're trying to execute because you and I know, um, you know, one in a thousand, you're going to write it and it's going to be,
00:32:40
Speaker
I don't know, maybe near done or some sort of miracle of riding that way, but everything else is the chiseling. Craig, what's the, and we started to bump into this, what's the role of art?
Art as a Healing Map
00:32:55
Speaker
So, I heard your answer, but like, what's art supposed to do? I love, I mean, kind of tack it to,
00:33:07
Speaker
to kind of a little bit of what I and what you said as you were talking about your art to you. And art is there for us to understand things that I think otherwise we wouldn't understand. Art is there to not just
00:33:31
Speaker
I think it can be there to guide us but also to explain things to us, right? I know this goes around social media a lot and it's one of those, there's an Ethan Hawke like little clip where he's
00:33:46
Speaker
talking very passionately. It's one of those things that you're on whatever it is. I watch that whole thing every single time. He talks about how so many people don't really appreciate poetry or art-wise, but then when a parent dies or when anybody dies, you are filled with something that you don't understand.
00:34:13
Speaker
But then art is there to kind of almost walk you through it. I think everybody can be an artist and I think everybody is an artist in their own way, as long as they've been allowed to kind of pursue and interact with it. But the people that can really frame things in a meaningful way, right?
00:34:38
Speaker
I mean, you can almost get to the where somebody is objectively like really succeeding at art. Right. The books that you read and weep, you know, the movies you watch over and over and over the, you know, the Sharon Nova song that you're like, I need to go listen to that right now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to get in. I'm going to get the infusion from the sky. Yeah.
00:34:59
Speaker
Absolutely. They're a map, right? Part of my intention with the Northwest trilogy, the Doom that came to Astoria, its sequel, The Dreams and the Pearl House, and then the third one that's coming out, it started out as a map, a question for me. I was trying to find my way on a map that to me didn't exist, right? Me as a male who struggles severely with mental health, and there's not really a lot of roadmaps out there for me,
00:35:28
Speaker
So writing this story was me creating a roadmap to figure out if I can be the hero of my own journey. I have since found the answer to that question. And now every time I do a little signing, every time I talk to people about the book, it becomes more and more of an imperative understanding for me that I hope that this trilogy can be a roadmap for others.
00:35:49
Speaker
who have similar questions, right? And they're like, I don't know. And you can't depend on your own brain in understanding the interaction of the art with other folks. But I think artists can trick themselves into it because you have a mission and you have an idea.
00:36:06
Speaker
of what it is and then the way it is, you know, as a poet in Corvallis or a podcaster here and people interact and they respond and it's brilliant, but it's knowing and seeing what you didn't know of how they're like, hey, why they could come up to you and say, hey, why were you obsessed with the shadows and everything? And you're like, I didn't know I wrote about shadows. Absolutely.
00:36:34
Speaker
Right. And they're like, they see you as obsessed with it. And you're like, oh, shit. Like, oh, I guess there were a lot of shadows in that, you know, or whatever. There's one guy who read Doom and he was messaging with me asking me in there. He was recognizing a couple of things that I did with great intention. And then he took it like four steps further and like made these other connections, which I thought were quite profound.
00:37:00
Speaker
And I'm like, Oh my gosh, I did that. I didn't mean to do that. Yeah. And then you could see it. Then you could see that I just, I think I really love that process. It's also fun for us to talk about, because I think what's clear here is that.
00:37:16
Speaker
unabashedly open up open up space for those who suffer for human beings to suffer and who suffer unnecessarily. The Buddhist analysis for me is that we all suffer. Don't cry over it. Don't cry over it. You are you plopped into this.
00:37:33
Speaker
Bodies plopped in there and all this and you're gonna suffer but the Buddhist analysis is very much something I think you and I connected to okay you're now you're suffering because you're a suffering being and now you're suffering because other people are suffering because you're a suffering being and then the Psychology is that well you you only need to deal with the first level you're suffering being you're suffering being that puts you in place with everybody
00:38:00
Speaker
And you can't change that fact. Well, let's just not compound the shit that that creates. Like let's deal with the stuff that we can. Right. And then move through. Absolutely. Absolutely. And like, and I think, and being able to, uh, I think the biggest takeaway for me in writing all of it was realizing that I, I had a lot more, um,
00:38:27
Speaker
autonomy in the situation that I thought That's where the anxiety comes from in a lot of cases is just feeling powerless Right and feeling like I have no way to impact or change this right and then the suffering just heaps There's there's incredible ways. I I think of um, you know since we're talking about writing I think of uh,
00:38:50
Speaker
a seminal work. Folks know about it in psychology and literature, but it's William Styron's Darkness Visible, which is his thin, smaller book description of his depression. And yeah, Darkness Visible, it reads as an essay. And I think Styron is a brilliant writer.
00:39:18
Speaker
And, uh, his, his, his daughter has written some memoirs about, um, you know, his experience, but, uh, I think of like a text like that. And for folks who haven't heard about a darkness visible, William Styron is, is a short memoir piece that, um, is, um, honestly brings you right in. It brings you right into, uh, his experience.
00:39:42
Speaker
and and going through it and it's extremely powerful remarkably vulnerable particularly if if like myself i look at you know we do this with writers i mean i i've used styrene as a as a as a writing giant and and then to see you know um uh an opening in a showing of um you know what he went what he went what he went through so um totally well that's like
00:40:08
Speaker
Even Doom opens up, the first chapter of Doom is just a massive panic attack. And it's interesting, like the three poetry books and the novels, they couldn't be more different, right? And it's interesting how, and I appreciate feedback in both directions.
Art and Personal Growth
00:40:28
Speaker
I've had some really kind people reach out and be like, hey, I just wanted to say I'm not gonna finish your book, but I,
00:40:36
Speaker
really appreciate that it's out there, but it was too close to home for me. Right. And I totally, I mean, I put a trigger warning in the second book. I was like, Oh yeah, by the way, if you're like currently struggling, probably not the read for you. Yeah. It needs to maybe to be some distance or the caveat that you put at the beginning of. Absolutely. Yeah. But then other people, um, again, I think
00:41:01
Speaker
one of the most rewarding pieces again, the book if I knew the book was going to get I didn't like when I was writing it. I mean, it's fairly autobiographical in the in the themes in like certain parts of the story. I probably wouldn't have made it so personal had I known that like I was actually going to put it out and read it.
00:41:19
Speaker
Yeah, and then it's then it's out and then it's the reality that surrounds it and then you yeah some surprise around that too and It's not easy to do it's it's not easy to do as a matter of fact I would say that in writing in truly writing if for me if it's to be revealing of myself
00:41:44
Speaker
I am, for myself, I don't reside there. As a matter of fact, I would tell you as a writer, relinquishing control of the narrative in how I'm framed is actually my biggest
00:42:04
Speaker
Letting go with how I'm expecting to see perceived and wanted to be perceived. It's not that I don't have the ability to be honest, particularly in conversation. People are like, I can't believe what he just told me or whatever, because I don't know. I'm an organizer. I'm a human person. I'm an artist. I just connect with people that way. But in the writing, I think that's the piece when you were talking about, oh, wait a second. There's a lot of me in there. Does it seem more set in stone in that regard?
00:42:33
Speaker
I've let, it's more set in stone and I've let control, I can't control changing it after it's out.
00:42:42
Speaker
Okay, what about? Okay, now I'm just intrigued. Because you were I mean, we're talking some pretty vulnerable things here. What's that? What's where's the numbers? No, no, I don't know. No worries. And no worries. No worries in the slightest. And it's interesting, too, because maybe it's verbal. And it's a permanent record. So if you take a look right now, Craig on this question, I think about this.
00:43:04
Speaker
If you start this podcast, you'll be almost towards episode 200. We're recording here on a Sunday. Next Sunday, you're going to hear that last sign off. There's almost seven days of material to listen to straight through. So as far as a record of voice in person, I can be completely duplicated. I can be completely
00:43:31
Speaker
AI created with inflections and accent and everything. But for some reason that doesn't intimidate me. I don't know.
00:43:45
Speaker
Because it is really, we're just having a conversation, right? I can show my learning in a future episode. I admit, so when I start working and making mistakes, white colonial mistakes of learning about native and indigenous culture,
00:44:02
Speaker
Yeah, like that was a stupid ass question. I'm not beating myself up, but I'm going to be I'm going to be like, whoa, like slow your role about how you understand everything. So as as maybe as maybe getting at maybe I can answer your question, maybe as if there's if there's availability of describing growth or maybe that's the change I'm able to express that I'm not even close to the person that I was.
00:44:31
Speaker
when I began the show or whatever is connected to it. I'm completely different. It's not. It's almost like it's even though the episode is wrapped in out there, but the whole thing isn't done, right? That's what it is. Thanks for helping me, Craig.
00:44:50
Speaker
That's what we do, right? We make the abstract concrete. Geez. Hey, I'm going to switch this podcast around and just like, hey, I changed the podcast. My guests just asked me questions and I tried to... Sorry, I'm just intrigued. I'm also a teacher, so I'm like perpetually...
00:45:12
Speaker
That's a good question. Let's throw everything out. Let's just all focus on this. I just want to know. That's just interesting because.
00:45:21
Speaker
Especially in high-level analysis, collegiate analysis classes or whatever it is, you start talking about things in terms of just artifacts. I train my older students, you look at a book as an artifact, a newspaper article is an artifact, the podcast is an artifact. When you use that generic term, it tries to put them all on a similar plane. They all have their unique differences. Sure.
00:45:46
Speaker
But like, and I guess I've thought about that with doom, uh, the doom that came to Astoria, like if I were to write that book now, it would be different because I've grown and I've learned, um, it's a very dark. And my hope is that, but the third one that I'm writing now is a lot more hopeful. There's still a huge darkness elements in it, but it's interesting. My hope is that my own growth and change is just reflected
Poetry Reading and Themes
00:46:09
Speaker
in that. Right. And you see, um,
00:46:14
Speaker
and even I'm gonna write a story afterwards that is kind of tackling some of the same ideas, but with my new way of thinking of it. Yeah, yeah, that mind is, the mind is capable of radical change, healing, transformation, creating new pathways. Craig, two more pieces.
00:46:43
Speaker
I was hoping you'd read some of the poems from Among the Wildflowers in folks' listeners as a backdrop. I had mentioned to Craig something rather than nothing podcast connected with a great podcast rooted by M. Grebner Gaddis.
00:47:06
Speaker
I'm going to be unrooted. She's going to tell me all about my favorite flower, sunflowers, and also she's going to be on something rather than nothing. But it was such a wonderful experience. I've had that conversation with them a couple conversations. And then going through among the wild flowers and the section about
00:47:29
Speaker
Rooted and rootedness. So it was a just a great Synchronicity and connection and I was wondering if you could share some of that Craig. Yeah How many of them do you want me to read? I want all the rooted if you could all the other just the rooted section absolutely and then for those listening among the wildflowers all the sections are they kind of follow a
00:47:55
Speaker
chronologically a journey of healing, like the first one being like untamed soil. They're all around that theme of, and then anything gradually, like you get rooted and then the growth happens and whatnot. So this is rooted. This is the rooted section. This is about seven or eight small poems. First one is Among the Wildflowers, part two. I will root myself among the wildflowers, among such seeds of hope.
00:48:26
Speaker
So just again, just short little kind of images of trying to really trying to get me rooted, right? Yeah, yeah, the place where I can heal my heart and home. No matter where we plant our feet, you will always be my heart and home. To my wife. This is one of my personal favorites. This next one's called the most resilient seed.
00:48:53
Speaker
Hope is the most resilient seed. It can be planted in any soil. Especially when we think it can't. Hold strong to deep roots. Lean in like a tree into the wind. Hold strong to the deep roots. Endure. Only you can let them.
00:49:21
Speaker
Only you can let them steal your piece, so plant it deep in starlet fields. I like the juxtaposition of that. That's so beautiful. It's really beautiful. Thank you. This is a little bit of a longer one. It's called Stand Till True. Most the blooms I see in fields hilt to their roots in painful strain, unaware of the powers they wield, unaware they'll come again.
00:49:47
Speaker
Hold to their roots in painful strain, the blooms do fear their beauties fade, unknowing they will come again, unknowing they will be remade. The blooms do fear their beauties fade, yet wildflowers stand till true, knowing they will be remade to spread their wonder, beauteous hue. The wildflowers stand till true, below deep skies of calming blue, to spread their wonder, beauteous hue.
00:50:16
Speaker
offering hope to hold and trust for you. I just love that idea that I just I sat there contemplating the flowers know that they're going to come back. Because if I start thinking about the question in my own terms, I think my knee like going back to even something you said, do you know you're back? That value judgment that like, I know they will. But why don't I think I will?
00:50:46
Speaker
Yeah. Where the heck did that thought come from? That's not conducive to living. Right. Um, that's not helpful. That's not helpful. So I'm going to come back again. That's a boulder in front of me. Don't need it. Right. Okay. I have deepest need. I have deepest need of roots so as to weather every drought and storm, the most rooted blooms.
00:51:15
Speaker
The most rooted blooms of spring will last and learn to see another sun. I've got a lot of messages of this one being several people's favorite. Your tears will water seeds. Fear not, for your tears will water seeds to root and raise much needed life.
00:51:37
Speaker
Amen. That's beautiful. Thanks, man. Yeah. That's in, you know, it's always like, how do you talk about poetry? I'll just go back to what I said.
00:51:49
Speaker
you know, words and the ideas and just gosh, the rootedness, the we're in Oregon, Oregon, these trees, trees that are alive in and are connected, the rooted, like hold on, stick into the ground and just stick with that because if the winds are blowing all this way, just stick in.
00:52:14
Speaker
Right? Round and that's it. What's going to give you life, right? Love it. Drive and chaos and yeah and then like I think I didn't even think about this. Maybe I was conscious of it as they were being written or because again all of these are born out of reminders that I need. If I feel like hell I'm just like I'll grab my pen or my phone and I'll just start
00:52:39
Speaker
writing words down that are kind of pinballing around how I feel. And then all of a sudden I start understanding how I feel. And then once you have that understanding, it's like, okay, do I want to feel this? Is this helpful? No, let's move over here then. And, um, but you like, uh, just lost my train of thought. I'll set you up with, uh, with, uh, what, what we need to move into. And it's a little bit different. Uh, so.
00:53:09
Speaker
If you have anything else to say, I think you answered the something rather than nothing in there, but I'm opening up the something rather than nothing finalizing comments. Also, I need you to let the listeners know where to find your stuff.
Art and Society
00:53:23
Speaker
I luckily can walk over to browser's bookstore, talk to over there.
00:53:28
Speaker
and get all my stuff and browsers, bookstores in Albany, Oregon, the official bookstore, something rather than nothing. So I can do this really easily, but tell us anything else we need to know about something and nothing and where to find your stuff. Absolutely. I think, again, there's something rather than nothing without
00:54:00
Speaker
And I was gonna mention this earlier, actually, I think the highest, if you look at like geography and like the study of people in anthropology, a higher level, but like higher developed, the highest level of cultural development is art. If a society is producing art, that means their culture has developed and advanced to the point where somebody,
00:54:29
Speaker
Yeah, is like privileged to the point where they can actually take the time to ruminate on things and create. Sure. Right. Um, so, um, and again, I go back to that, like without, I mean, almost just simply put without, without that something we have
Philosophy and Art
00:54:47
Speaker
nothing. Right. Um, and, um, but also, um, what was I gonna say earlier about, uh,
00:54:59
Speaker
Well, I think one of the things when I kick around this question too is in this space for it too, because it's, and I think about it in Buddhist terms of the nothing, right? So the nothing, nothing or emptiness, but within the Buddhist tradition, yes, there is an analysis of there being no thing, no inherent existence behind the thing that you're saying. And there's a reclamation in my opinion of,
00:55:30
Speaker
Nothingness and and that there's there's no there's no special beingness. There's no special Plato ideal form in the sky it there there's there's it's a phenomena and and so it's it's I always start within the show as far as terms is I've always left them ambiguous because no thing nothing is
00:55:53
Speaker
in Western tradition has its meaning, but it can also have meanings in other ways. I think when I was interviewed on the show, I dropped into that type of analysis of the nothingness or the no-thingness in Buddhism. And in that regard, with Buddhism, it's like the goal is to have nothing because once you achieve that and are trying to fill yourself with that, then you have
00:56:23
Speaker
I just something like everything you got everything you need, everything you want, right? Right in front of you. Absolutely. Which, and there's an interesting, so it's almost like something through nothing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's there. Right. But I, I was thinking too, when, when like the name with like something rather than nothing, um, I feel like I feel personally most alive when I'm creating and writing.
00:56:49
Speaker
I think there's something inherent about being human that we want to create something, we want to do something. Like you even said it, when we were talking earlier, like you have your job, you have your life, you have your career, but this podcast is something that you can do, that you can kind of create. This is the big one. This is me. This is the big one, right? This is your something.
00:57:09
Speaker
And it's like, I mean, I teach and I love it and I get to kind of interact with hilarious high school students and my whole career has been awesome. But there's something different about since I started writing, I feel like something that was missing is there. And Neil Gaiman is famous for saying like one of his favorite things about art and writing is that like,
00:57:34
Speaker
there was nothing there. And then you started thinking and wrote it down. And then when you write something, whether it's a poem or a story, like that did not exist in the world before you created it and put it there. And now it's this artifact, now it's this thing that other people can go do. So you're creating
00:57:54
Speaker
That's something And and and they kind of just the echoes of that I love I always love that thought like I've thought about that with even these little poems that sometimes seem so Menial or or trites or or just me grasping at the universe But now they're little they're reminders for me like even as I was just going back and reading through those I'm like, oh my gosh, I remember I
00:58:19
Speaker
where i was when i
Book Series Overview
00:58:20
Speaker
wrote that i remember what i was thinking i remember what i was going through yeah i'm so thankful that i'm here now as a result of the process yeah big neil gaiman fan as well as as uh
00:58:33
Speaker
You know ex-wife Amanda Palmer for all yeah around around art and I got I got I got the sandman. Yeah, I got the sandman death tattoo which I'm actually folks. I'm actually showing Craig Yeah, the so anyways the death character from Neil Gaiman's sandman, but what I always adored about is
00:59:01
Speaker
the image is the panel and she says peachy keen, which is just old-fashioned and whimsical. I feel like there's little moments where I feel like I'm parenting, right? Because my kids got me this, Uncle Pop of Death.
00:59:19
Speaker
We got a Funko Papa death. So, I believe towards the end of this episode, Craig and I have stumbled into our next episode. Could be made of component parts. Probably the Neil game in Amanda Palmer. Just, just, just loveliness. Yeah, let's do that next. But tell folks where to get your stuff.
00:59:43
Speaker
Yeah, so there's two novels and two collections of poetry right now. The Doom that Came to Astoria and The Dreams and the Pearl House are parts one and two of the Northwest trilogy, which is they follow Charlie West who comes from kind of an abusive past and he's got some cracks in his soul and he's just trying to put his life back together.
01:00:07
Speaker
And then there's these supernatural elements. It's very Lovecraftian, kind of borrows from Lovecraft. But to me, it also is kind of a middle finger to Lovecraft because he wrote all these stories that I love about really anxious people. But they're all very
01:00:28
Speaker
Well, there's no hope. I realized that I read them because these people were all in terrible trauma and had no hope of coming out. It's like a whole closed engine of hell. Yeah. And exactly, which is like when you and then you find I spent years feeding that into myself, which is really just feeding that thought that I was never going to come out. So my books are kind of like an ode to Lovecraft while kind of flipping them off to saying, look, look, I'm going to write a horror story that actually ends in an OK place.
01:00:55
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I've my dad told me all about Lovecraft growing up because he's from Rhode Island. Providence is. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So I'm every every year on.
01:01:06
Speaker
Halloween, couple other times, whole covens go to HP Lovecraft's grave. And it's just a wild, wild story. Absolutely. I just had to say that out loud. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And then there's a third one, The Mountains at the Edge of Madness, which is kind of an ode to his most famous story where it culminates. That's coming out next year. And then there's two poetry books, To Chase the Sun and Among the Wildflowers. They chart my own. They're just poems that are chronologically published.
01:01:36
Speaker
that reflect my own journey of grappling and healing with mental health struggles and kind of reclaiming my own life, which has been super fun. And you can get there on Amazon, but if you look me up on Instagram and just message me, you can actually just buy them straight through me and then we don't have to support Jeff Bezos.
01:02:01
Speaker
It's an absolutely great option and I encourage
01:02:07
Speaker
uh everybody um i uh another thing craig i i adore a story uh because um for me it it tweaks in unique elements of like immigration patterns and culture which resemble a little bit more the east coast where where i'm from you have um the the the deep fishermen uh culture of the seaboard and a lot of the
01:02:34
Speaker
Folks who were experts out that way had the Well Astoria in the Columbia and the Pacific in that whole massive Bar in channel and everything that's the most dangerous water pads that bar right in like the entry. Yeah. Yeah Well, well well Craig and of course you're on Instagram as you mentioned and
01:03:00
Speaker
Yep. OK, so folks, check out Craig Randall. Really, really enjoy the the joy, the books, but very useful for me as the way I interact with art to use them for living. And I think that part of the art and transformation is a huge piece of what we've been talking about.
01:03:30
Speaker
Absolutely. And I appreciate hearing that. Thank you. Because I think that's where, again, there's almost a utility, I think, just the nature of why I wrote the books.
01:03:45
Speaker
My hope is that, yeah, people can read them too, you know, because I'm a, you know, poetry nerd, so I'll pick up books of poetry just to read. So like practice analyzing and like break down and just love the language. But I think my hope is that there's a utility with my work that even the novels that like people could read and
01:04:07
Speaker
see themselves in and empathize with or realize i've gotten a few lovely messages from people thinking like hey thank you for writing this because i thought i was alone yeah well and on that it and then that that piece that piece right there and what i would say is uh what i would say on that is you you were talking about
01:04:30
Speaker
uh you know the hero and i i love this podcast and being the death valley girls um yeah bonnie bloom garden does the death valley girls podcast which i just adore but one of the pieces that she says that means so much to me because it's so direct is
01:04:49
Speaker
Her guests are heroes, you know?
Conclusion and Future Discussions
01:04:52
Speaker
And I just wanted to say in what you're talking about and doing what you're doing, I truly mean that. You're a hero in doing that and going through that and reconnecting from just, you know, we've got to think about ourselves and the things that get away for to live, to persevere, to go through the shit, the muck and the mire in the dark and to come out to end.
01:05:16
Speaker
Heroes work. Heroes work. Taking the hero full journey or the full circle, right? It's like, yeah, you have to go through it. You have to come out the other side. Yeah, thank you. I don't think I started living until I came out the other side. Here we go. And that's the hope. Hey, folks, we've been talking to Craig Randall. Check out his poetry, writing, learn about Astoria.
01:05:42
Speaker
look up John Garner's Art of Fiction, look up Stephen King's On Writing, Neil Gaiman's Sandman, Heroes' Journeys, all this type of stuff. Craig, great, great pleasure having you on the show. Fantastic to meet you and really look forward to everything else you write and create. Thanks for having me. Likewise, it's been a blast. Yeah, I'm excited. I think we should totally do that Sandman episode.
01:06:12
Speaker
Let's announce it now. Folks in the future, Craig Randall and Ken Volante delve into the Sandman universe in both its TV form, but probably as a basic, the graphic novel form. Craig Randall, Ken Volante, Sandman, Neil Gaiman episode coming up. Craig, it's been great to chat with you and let's chat again soon. Sounds good. It's been great to be here. Thank you.
01:06:43
Speaker
This is something rather than nothing.