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Katie Marie
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Katie Marie is a Cherokee/Choctaw educator, Indigenous Wisdomkeeper, and decolonial guide who works at the intersection of healing, community, and education.
Enjoy this ranging conversation into matriarchy, wellness of being, Indigenous futures, our planet, Art & Philosophy!
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:00:02
Speaker
You are listening to Something Rather Than Nothing. Creator and host, Ken Valante. Editor and producer, Peter Bauer. Hey everybody, this is Ken. First of all, welcome to Caitlin Green.
00:00:24
Speaker
Thank you. I'm so happy to be here. Thank
Discussion on 'Remajored the World' and Decolonizing Education
00:00:26
Speaker
you, Ken. And I wanted to start it with this. Maybe this is a bit of a challenge. So you did a book called Remajored the World.
00:00:35
Speaker
did. Massive, massive concept. Cover art done by Steph Littleberg. Yes, the master herself, I did. Yeah. so ah So, here I am. 2025 was you know, American fascism, Trump, control of the classroom, control of history.
00:01:03
Speaker
So... yeah The project is, as you describe it, is decolonizing education and fostering inclusive, culturally responsive classrooms.
00:01:18
Speaker
Oh,
Challenges and Changes in Caitlin's Teaching Career
00:01:19
Speaker
yes. Yes. and And that is part one of a three or four part series. um I'm still deciding and still receiving downloads from Spirit. um I have been ah Working deeply with spirit of the white buffalo calf woman with this as well. I recognized as I was an educator, I got my master's degree at the University of Arkansas in Fayetteville, Arkansas.
00:01:43
Speaker
And I... i Got my teaching degree, went into education, and I taught kindergarten all through fourth grade. And I loved it. I was in fourth grade for a while, almost ah seven years total in total.
00:01:56
Speaker
And um I was really grateful for it. But I recognized that in Arkansas, I was doing something that wasn't ready to be done yet. And that was decolonizing the classroom. And I didn't know what a younger version of myself was actually trying to do. And i was it was simply um trying to bring in the voices that had often been silenced.
00:02:14
Speaker
It was bringing in um stories that had been misinterpreted into spaces that needed to hear them. And um it was giving true knowledge to children who deserved it instead of, you know, the historical myth that they may have otherwise heard.
00:02:31
Speaker
and you know, this was around the time that they were also trying to... um Stopped teaching certain, um, history in the classroom, such as black history, specifically in Arkansas, they were passing certain acts that would prevent teachers from, um, saying certain things in the classrooms. And, um, I got my hand slapped a couple times.
00:02:51
Speaker
Um, I got, I, I, I definitely had some parents call the state on me, I believe, but I had even more parents call on my behalf and in promotion of me. So I was supported, but it was, it was a tough area. Um,
Creative Exploration and Spiritual Journey
00:03:06
Speaker
And the way that I and actually ended up leaving was not um my decision. my ah My um admin was able to let me go because they passed the learned Learns Act in Arkansas.
00:03:20
Speaker
And that basically says that you can let a teacher go and for any reason. And I wasn't able to fight that, even though I was the union rep at my building um for the teachers. So we couldn't fight anything.
00:03:32
Speaker
It's easy. Yeah, no, exactly. My partner and I then moved to Chicago and it took a minute. I healed a bit. Like you said, I ah i allowed my creativity to come back. I leaned into flow. I leaned into my healing. i leaned into my own philosopher. I dug deeply into Alfred Adler and his teachings.
00:03:50
Speaker
um And I dug deeply into hermetic philosophy and really started my own spiritual healing journey deeply. I'd already sort of begun, but I really started it then. you know I got yoga certified And I always knew that something was going to alchemize out of this experience in the classroom.
00:04:06
Speaker
And finally, one day it hit me. I need to write a book and I need to start with the woman dominated profession of education. Oh, yeah. There is a reason it's still woman dominated because it comes from matrilineal wisdom keepers.
00:04:20
Speaker
Right. That's the foundation of education and understanding. But what we have forgotten is the core root of it. ah You know, the root cause of everything we've forgotten. The core root is the connection to the earth and the realms around us of like reverence and understanding, like reciprocal relationships and restorative justice and and mindfulness and all of these things and how they interweave in the classroom. So.
00:04:42
Speaker
um I kind of put everything that I did in my classroom. um People said that I had excellent classroom management. I put it in the book. It's all rematriation. That's all it is, you know, because I I recognize that while we are decolonizing and it's such an important work.
00:04:58
Speaker
um I looked at the root words of you know D and re. D means to take something away. And that yes, we want to take away colonization, definitely. um But at some point in time, we need to start adding something as well, or then we'll be left with nothing.
00:05:12
Speaker
So I recognize that what we need is a rematriation. We need
Community Building and Conversations on Difficult Topics
00:05:16
Speaker
a reminder of our matrilineal societies, right, of where we actually come from. of that cyclical nature, that spiral understanding again.
00:05:26
Speaker
And that starts with education. Now I'm hoping that part two will be rematriate the world and I will be discussing the workforce. Another one will be rematriate the world. I will be discussing um medical care, child care. I'm a practicing doula at this moment, so all care work. And then the fourth one will be rematriating religion and how all religions root back to indigenous spirituality at their core.
00:05:50
Speaker
Okay. Yeah. So we're trying to really, that's a mighty project. my yeah <unk> I've got a lifetime to do it. Spirit said, this is, this is the show for big ideas. Let me tell you what. Yes. Spirit knew that we needed to find each other. Um,
00:06:07
Speaker
um I, yeah did there's so much going on there about, yeah I like the radical shifting that you're talking about and what flows from that.
00:06:19
Speaker
um One of the pieces, and it's just a piece in the way you've been talking is, in looking at your talk about spirituality and healing, I really just...
00:06:31
Speaker
I found myself just listening to you and learning and understanding the connections. But one of the pieces ah that can intimidate it folks is kind of these connections that you point to um the the history of religion or storytelling and passing things down in matriarchal ways.
00:06:57
Speaker
ah society. You mentioned yoga. You mentioned and ah even something as profound as doula, which can help with entrances into this plane and exits from this plane. Exactly. and I've been practicing ceremonialist work as well. So, you know, that's all the sacred ceremonies of life, birth, death,
00:07:20
Speaker
medicine, met matrimony, union, divorce, transitions of life, ego deaths. um So I have been really working on ah honing that sacred space to be able to hold all the ceremonies of life.
00:07:34
Speaker
Wow. um I wanted to jump back on... When you're talking about your situation in in dealing with a union rep ah in a very anti-worker state, legislative, culturally, et cetera.
00:07:54
Speaker
Obviously, you have a book in the guide that that points to this, but I'm thinking about this in the collective. You ended up very isolated there. So if folks are thinking about this like, hey, I'm in Oregon or, hey, I'm in Texas, I agree with you. yeah How do folks engage in community and build their like fortitude to basically be working in a radical but based society?
00:08:22
Speaker
Yeah. i I love this question. i'm going to be honest with you because I am a deep believer that if the space does not exist, create um However, if you don't know something, ask questions.
00:08:37
Speaker
um Anybody worth their salt as an elder um will answer you and will not be concerned with how much they give. Right. um I think that this work is deeply impactful to the collective. I think that it's deeply impactful on this grand scheme of things.
00:08:55
Speaker
um because it's what we are craving at this moment in time. I think that this moment in time is the time for this message. And it is the time for people to understand um something deeper, a call that is much deeper. And I think that we all feel that, you know, we we are like you mentioned, um a lot of people can get um uncomfortable or discomfort whenever I bring up a issues like religion.
00:09:21
Speaker
Um, but I always recant that by saying, well, we all want the same thing. Whenever we walk into a religious space or a temple, we're looking for belonging. We're looking for connectivity. We're looking for oneness, a connection to the divine, a source, right? That is,
00:09:37
Speaker
that is indigenous spirituality, you know, and that, and in that we can understand that we are greater than ourselves. So it's almost like this work must be done, um, in that way. And in my book, I actually have a ah section that has sentence stems because I know how difficult this work is. And I took, um,
00:09:59
Speaker
I took multiple DEI courses and um one of them, the most transformational one for me was learning how to um call people into the conversation. So we're really
Education System Challenges and Project-Based Learning
00:10:11
Speaker
good at calling people out, right? But calling people out yeah doesn't engage them to learn and to grow.
00:10:16
Speaker
It just engages anger and and and fighting, right? and that's And we're not looking for infighting at this moment. That is that is not the work of Remaincreation, right? Mm-hmm. So I was really just enthralled with the work of calling people in. So in my book, there are a lot of like, there are there are some like specific pointed like comments that I have heard in my time as as an educator from both my colleagues, from the parents, and um from admin, um from different people in the community. And um I offer specific things that you can say, like, you know, our job is not to rehash the past, but just to tell the ah the children a solid foundation for their future be built on, because we want kids who are able to speak upon things with sound minds and sound hearts and able to make these cross-curricular connections. And they can only do that if they know the truth.
00:11:07
Speaker
Right. And so and and and they're not quite as lengthy as that. That one was just straight from the noggin. But, you know, there's plenty of of ideas in there that can really assist you in beginning this work.
00:11:18
Speaker
And the beautiful thing, the beautiful thing about it is it doesn't even look different. At first, um it doesn't change the entire anything of the classroom environment because it is natural.
00:11:30
Speaker
Like I said, it is so natural in our beings and who we are, that what it really begins with is understanding the classroom culture, the classroom environment. bringing in all of the children, acknowledging all walks of life, understanding that restorative justice is important. And to have restorative justice, you have to have a classroom community.
00:11:50
Speaker
You have to be able to say yes, have able to say no you to be able to communicate. You have to have children who are settled in their nervous system. So that means you have to practice mindfulness in your classroom, right? You have to do a 30 days of mindfulness challenge because if you don't have children who can manage their emotions,
00:12:06
Speaker
You don't have children who can learn and retain information. And that is a scientific fact. i I agree. i was i used to do work, ah union work out in Madison, Wisconsin. There was an elementary school. and They had a grant.
00:12:21
Speaker
ah You had a control, you know, control and test group. And my eyes were red. wide open like 20 years ago and looking at that and other results where I'm like, what's going on with these kids? And you look at this cohort of, and I think they might've gone and done a practice or maybe even go to the computer just to interact with a ah symbol or something, some practice and their outcomes were,
00:12:53
Speaker
I mean, it was just remarkable. I'm just talking about regulated self and then everybody else. Yes, because, you know, the moment that you ask a child a question, a lot of things can happen. It's going to either trigger a fight, flight, freeze, fawn response, you know, um or something else entirely. And at the end of the day, we are, and and I talk about this in my book. I talk about the idea of overanalyzing children and over-testing children and the idea of, um,
00:13:22
Speaker
taking a step back from standardized testing and decolonizing space and time. So that's another big one that's going to ruffle some feathers, but it's important um because I think that we have gotten so focused on data um that it makes the children actually fearful and and doesn't make them feel good about um what they are producing in their bodies.
00:13:44
Speaker
um A lot of the time we have We have things that we see in children and in their parents today called testing anxiety. And that is a real problem thing that we have created by over testing and over analyzing these students. Because in my book, I talk about a lot of other assessment strategies that are much more profound and can really test their levels of understanding on a deeper level, right? If you're an educator and you understand DOK levels of knowledge, right? you We're looking for project-based learning. We're looking for tying it in and and creating something grand with it, maybe like a community service project, right?
00:14:19
Speaker
And so those are the things that I tried to do in my classroom. and and And yes, I did them, but sadly, my district was pushing a curriculum all the time. And I always felt like I was behind because I wasn't teaching by... this canned curriculum that didn't have any Native and Indigenous voices voices in it.
00:14:35
Speaker
I was not constantly assessing my students every three days because I didn't want to do that to them. I cared about them, you know, and I wanted them to be able to read books that they cared about, not the ones that they were assigned to read and and enjoy and have them enjoy the learning process because I feel like A lot of the issues, whenever we go towards teaching to the average, which is a lot of curriculum materials, we go towards teaching to the average, we actually teach to no one.
00:15:04
Speaker
And then everybody gets left behind. Yeah. No was that act. No Child's Behind. It was is a nice idea, wasn't it? It's a nice name. It really is. That's a beautiful name.
00:15:17
Speaker
Well, you see, I don't know. I've been around the public education system for quite some time and yeah data aggregation. And you look at things like... ah The only thing that slows like AI down is data.
00:15:33
Speaker
it's Its growth is based on more of a like need for extraction right of human beings of their data from early on. So the forces.
00:15:44
Speaker
Yes. Or strong. no you're absolutely right. And I, and I noticed this the most whenever I really, I started having an issue in the classroom or rather my admin started having an issue with me um because I couldn't keep count on an online system. How many times a child was triggered within an hour because I was trying to manage a classroom environment, but they want you to go and check in on this system and Do and collect at the same time. Yes. and and yeah and And then you bring it to this meeting where these people who don't know the child are speaking, you know, and and you call it, um you say that it's for the child, but really it's to check a box.
00:16:22
Speaker
And that child doesn't still receive information. in most cases, what they're actually needing. At the end of the day, they just receive more testing, more pulled out of their actual classroom environment and um and more detachment from the curriculum and from these cross-curricular ideas that they could be building otherwise.
00:16:39
Speaker
I think we could talk about the class for hours. Ever. Forever. and We'll just go ahead and set a second date for that. Let's just like,
The Nature and Role of Art
00:16:47
Speaker
hey, everybody, drop in.
00:16:49
Speaker
Drop in for the education talk of the day. There's... so I wanted, we're going to be talking, uh, art and creativity, you know, like on the show, but I'm speaking, you and I just, uh, briefly, uh, connection to the like energies and the need to create and, uh, some of impetus behind the show about the beauty in, in creating or, or what drives us
00:17:20
Speaker
um But I wanted to ask you one of the cool big questions. um Before we start, what is art?
00:17:31
Speaker
To me, art is the ultimate alchemization of our creative energy. it is our divine flow. It is whenever we are in the fullest connection to ourselves and our emotions.
00:17:47
Speaker
I love it. Yeah. Yeah.
00:17:51
Speaker
What is the role like now, you think, of art? Has it changed historically? Like, supposed to be doing some for us?
00:18:02
Speaker
Is it is's necessary use breathing? That's another question. Well, you know, whenever I think of art and its original foundations, I think of pictures and inscribed on a wall or pictures inscribed on pottery. And at that moment in time, then yes, they were essential. They were just as essential as words. And then we turned those pictures into written language.
00:18:22
Speaker
So I would say that art is the foundation of pretty much everything that we have. I think the greatest thing that they did was add the A to stim and make it steam. Because the app the action of adding in the art element gives it the element of creativity. It gives the element of flow. It gives the element of...
00:18:40
Speaker
o it's It's like... the perfect combination of the divine feminine and the divine masculine showing up at the same time, you know, because you're, you're showing up and you're actually doing, doing the deed, right. You're doing the creation. And a lot of people get caught in the doing of the creation. They forget that it's the act of creation. That's the fun part, not the end perfection goal or the selling or the, whatever it is. It's the act of creation. That's supposed to be the fun part. Do it as much as you want and then go to something else. If it doesn't bring you joy anymore, you know?
00:19:10
Speaker
um So I think that I really just think that once you can step out of fear and ego, creation naturally starts to blossom wherever you might be.
00:19:22
Speaker
um And it leads you in art specifically leads you to a place that maybe you couldn't reach before, which is why, for example, I used Steph's images on some of our collaborative posts that we've been doing. I reached out to her and I said, you know,
00:19:40
Speaker
Steph, I'm a truth teller and I want to get some words out to the world. I deeply want to, you know, I want to share about missing and murdered indigenous women and relatives. Would you help me get this message out? And she said, sure, because she's fabulous.
00:19:53
Speaker
She's absolutely, whenever I messaged her about my book, she's like, sure. What, what image do you want? Right. And we, and we've had this beautiful connection ever since. yeah And so she sent me some images and, and her, because of her art,
00:20:05
Speaker
Yes, my words are powerful, but because of her art, it has gone worldwide. This message of our people, right? And I think that that alone shows the power of art.
00:20:18
Speaker
It's beautiful. Yeah. I've learned, and speaking of that with Steph Littlebird's stuff... there's a almost like deep and radical instant learning in some of them.
00:20:31
Speaker
And like with we're thinking, we're talking all these thoughts, but I mean, it hits visually. Yes. Boom. Yes. And in my book, I even, um I discussed this because Steph's image graces the cover of the book. And then the rest of the book is actually AI generated images because the book is,
00:20:52
Speaker
created in a future that doesn't yet exist. ah So it was difficult to find images of a world that doesn't yet exist. yeah um So I even write as an excerpt in the beginning of the book, the importance, um and I think the beautiful balance of the blending of the two, but also the remembrance of the trueness of what human nature brings to the table that AI could never craft while it may be, you know, a version of consciousness, a version of intelligence or something, you know, it can never actually create that art like a Steph Little Bird, right? Or like a you or like a kin on this podcast, for example, right?
00:21:34
Speaker
it's it's It's always going to be missing that human spark, right? got That fire, the ether, right, that we talk about. Yeah. Yeah. I wanted to, I don't know, it's a kind of clumsy way to bounce back, but just to talk about yeah ah the development of your spiritual thinking.
00:21:56
Speaker
um ah Part of it visually and some of the things that you said um and and and, of course, acknowledging ah Choctaw and and Cherokee background.
00:22:08
Speaker
Yes.
Reconnecting with Indigenous Heritage and Spiritual Healing
00:22:09
Speaker
About yeah maybe the cosmos and stuff. So it's very new to me. And I was kind of following that. Can you kind of it's a can you kind of lead us like maybe in the development of your spiritual thinking? Yes.
00:22:23
Speaker
I would love nothing more. Okay, cool. I would love nothing more. Yes. i' I'm actually, in in addition to the Rematriate the World series, I'm writing another book at this moment in time. um It's a journey from dis-ease to ease.
00:22:38
Speaker
Now, my Cherokee Sacred Natal Day is a rattlesnake tooth number three. And what that means is plainly put, my duty is to lead the people out of disease and scarcity into ease and prosperity again by reminding them how to be reverence in reverence with mother earth and each other.
00:22:57
Speaker
And that is my duty for per my star sign, my sacred natal day. So let me, so let me take you back. yeah I, um, I had just graduated college. I was married. Um, I got a teaching degree. I was, um I had been teaching for years and, um,
00:23:13
Speaker
So I had that, though the house, the white picket fence, the husband, um and I was deeply unhappy, but also deeply unwell. My body was... experiencing disease or dis dis-ease because I was living out of alignment, right?
00:23:29
Speaker
I would wake up and I would have vertigo. The room would spin and I didn't know why. i I had gut issues. I would fold over in the middle of teaching a lesson and I would go to the doctor and they would have no solutions for me.
00:23:40
Speaker
I had depression. I had anxiety. I had CPTSD from childhood trauma. I was processing quite a lot, right? and And so I had all of these medications and they started really, really, really hurting my stomach. And, um,
00:23:54
Speaker
I decided, you know, I'm just going to have to figure out what health looks like again. going have to figure out this. And at the time, I think what I was doing was reconnecting my mind, my body, and my spirit.
00:24:05
Speaker
um Because as we know, whenever the mind, the body, and the spirit are aligned, the body will heal itself. It will actually come back online and do miraculous things. So I started simply by breathing and finding stillness.
00:24:19
Speaker
A lot of people say that that's meditation, but deeply, if you just sit still, for five minutes a day, it can change your DNA. And um after that, I started doing a little yoga and I started bringing it to the classroom, started showing it to my students.
00:24:34
Speaker
yeah I started reading Alfred Adler and learning about the courage to be disliked and the courage to be happy and understanding behavioral psychology. and And, you know, that's very different than Sigmund Freud at the time, which is why they didn't want Alfred Adler to be heard of, of course, because he's had very different opinions.
00:24:53
Speaker
on his behavioral psychology and like the things that you are given are actually your greatest strengths. And, um and I read that book about three, three times. um um no five times in total and um as as you may or may not know once you discover alfred adler and adlerian psychology it takes you half of your life from that point to then master it because you have so much unlearning to do yeah so i am currently on my i think fourth year now and i'm really enjoying the the journey that has led me on so that's where i began and um
00:25:29
Speaker
I was deeply unhappy and I really started digging back into my plant medicines, herbs, one of my original modalities as a child. um I think most people have a story where they were mixing some sort of pie or some sort of something in the but in the yard whenever they were a child, right? And creating something fabulous. Well, I always made special potions.
00:25:50
Speaker
um I would never drink them, but they were always for my spirit friends. Funny enough, right? Yeah. um And so I was an adult. I went to my local metaphysical shop. I felt silly.
00:26:03
Speaker
i muscle tested for some crystals. I got some herbs and I went home because my indigenous background was... um It was deeply encouraged. I will say my family is very proud of our CDIB cards, um but we are um some people in my family are deeply colonized to their core. um So I did grow up in a environment where I was programmed to get married very early on.
00:26:29
Speaker
And um I did have to unlearn a lot of that programming and find my way back to knowing what being indigenous means in this world and recognizing that I am two spirit and I am supposed to spread this message and that's why had learn it.
00:26:44
Speaker
right So whenever I um started really connecting to my spirit team again and really connecting to my ancestors, you know my great grandmother was always so deeply connected to our lineage and she gave all of us our Cherokee names and the language and she really encouraged the language. Her and I would share letters back and forth.
00:27:04
Speaker
I'm actually conferring with Steph to try to write a children's book to see if she'll illustrate it for me about a little native girl sharing letters with her great grandmother their language. So um i yeah I really got back into my plant medicines. I made myself a tea one night and I ah just sat in ceremony with myself. And I said, you know, allow me to see what needs to be seen.
00:27:28
Speaker
I don't know where I went wrong. I don't know what I've done wrong. Let me know. And that night I had a prophetic dream for the first time since childhood. whoa And this prophetic dream showed me the changes that I needed to make in my life. And they were vast, they were big, and they were scary.
00:27:49
Speaker
And that I woke up immediately and I started making those changes in my life. And, um you know, the people around me started falling. um But ah i ah but I recognized that it was really just me finding my path towards my soul family and who I really was meant to be this whole time.
00:28:09
Speaker
um So along that journey, I left my job in Fayetteville as an educator. i came here to Chicago. i opened up my own small business. I got my Cuddlist certification. i got my yoga certification. i am...
00:28:24
Speaker
now leading a medicine matrimony ceremony at the end of this month where I'll be leading people through medicine and helping to assist in marrying a couple in divine union and giving them a going to water ceremony like my ancestors hoped I always would.
00:28:40
Speaker
so um i and you know, i think that this is what occurs whenever you you just give into the flow and you say, take me where I need to go. um Because it it truly has been a whirlwind, but it has been the most amazing journey. now you can yeah don't know. I would surmise from the outside that you can you can feel can fully feel some of the things yeah again.
00:29:09
Speaker
like yeah Sometimes folks, any of us, like health and otherwise we can get lost. We're so sick. We don't know we're sick. Exactly. We're in a group of people who are sick that are so sick.
00:29:22
Speaker
So nobody knows they're sick. Well, and whenever you have that energy, it just magnifies, right? It radiates. and And there's so many people, you know, and ah and I talk about this in my upcoming book, just From Dissease to Ease.
00:29:34
Speaker
um How, you know, people can get stuck in this frequency of not recognizing that they are just band-aiding their problems. You know, we have a lot of band-aids in our society. yeah we have a lot of We have a lot of dopamine fixes. We have a lot of instant gratification, right?
00:29:48
Speaker
We have a lot of things to make us feel better, but we don't really go deep, deep within the roots and look within the root causes of what might possibly be causing some of these symptoms of disease.
00:30:00
Speaker
right We say, oh, my head hurts. Oh, my stomach hurts. These are symptoms. Quit band-aiding them. What is it a greater cause of? Is your third eye needing to be opened? Are you needing to see something more clearly?
00:30:11
Speaker
right Are you needing to enhance your creative flow? Maybe you're not speaking. Maybe that's why your throat hurts. Maybe you haven't been speaking your truth and you got sick because of it. you know and And I think that that that way of thinking for some people is just so foreign.
00:30:27
Speaker
Right. To recognize that my body is telling me something. We always say mind over matter, but we don't recognize that that's really what it is. Your body is telling you what is going, what is or it or it's trying to communicate with you.
00:30:41
Speaker
Hey, listen to me or I will sit you down. I like the the way you it's very explicit how you use, or maybe it's subtle, maybe it's the opposite explicit, dis-ease.
00:30:54
Speaker
I've seen that used before, or maybe the reference in like,
00:31:01
Speaker
Buddhist writings. It's a very dis-ease and it kind of connects you that like it's to your body and you feel you're not at ease, you're upset, you're anxious. and kind of I like it because it pulls your mind towards Yes, and and it and it really truth, right? You know, yeah I think all of us understand deeply what it feels like to be ah in dis-ease, right? and And we understand that, well, obviously, if we are in dis-ease, the body will then respond with disease, right? And you look at all these disease experiences, and but then you look at miraculous cases of recovery, right? We see them every day because why?
00:31:46
Speaker
Well, I have a theory. Others might have another theory, you know, but I what I know to be true and factual is that there are Buddhist monks in temples who have meditated their entire lives and they have systematically changed their DNA and they can showcase that by actually sending an electric charge to another human being.
00:32:07
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, that's powerful. And that was done with the mind. Yeah, right. respond And you know, when we talk about religion, let's let's bring it up again, right? The power of the mind, the alchemization, the story of Jesus, the story of Moses, the story of the healing of miraculous things that were done, were done because they understood alchemy.
00:32:27
Speaker
They went to Egypt, they studied with the practitioners, they knew how to move the elements of the world around them And the church got to say, ah, that was a miraculous God thing.
00:32:41
Speaker
i gotcha. But what it really was, was them understanding alchemy and the understanding of the mind is the all. And that's a hermetic philosophy. Number like one, the all is the one. The all is the mind. Yes. Yeah.
00:32:53
Speaker
yeah yeah Wow, we are getting into something rather than nothing, aren't we? Oh my goodness. Deep stuff. Deep stuff, babe. I'm a rattlesnake tooth. I'd be talking deep. Rattlesnake.
00:33:06
Speaker
here my Hear my tail rattle. like it um i got the a couple times when we've been chatting here folks you listen you can't see uh katie murray and i are talking but i turned my back a couple times looking at the bookshelf because i got the we've ordered that your book
Integrating Indigenous Perspectives in Education
00:33:24
Speaker
my partner yeah oh my gosh you have to tell me what you think i'm so grateful My um partner, ah Jenny, is an autism specialist, a special educator, um functional skills classroom. through
00:33:41
Speaker
Thank So, you know, when we're talking about things being activated, yes i'm um it's going through her mind first as the teacher. Yes. and um I've had this question asked me as well, you know, in thinking about, you know, the specific the different classrooms that are in a school system. Right. There are the. um different there's just different varying levels of conversations that we can have with different varying levels of learners. And the conversation is, ah or the question has always been asked for me, is this suitable for all learners, right? Is rematriation, this idea suitable for all learners? And I think, and I always say yes, because all learners need this information.
00:34:26
Speaker
And um especially those friends that we may think um are We call them neurodivergent. I might call them something else because in indigenous communities, often those that we would call neurodivergent were seen as those who were the most wise and those who were able to see the most clearly. And we often looked to them to answer our problems in times of need.
00:34:51
Speaker
um and um And if there was ever somebody that was different in our societies or deemed different in our societies, we took it as an invitation to look inward and say, what is wrong with us that we deem somebody in our community as different from self?
00:35:05
Speaker
Because we understand we are one. um And so I think that's, again, why I began with classrooms. And um because I think that classrooms are as one community.
00:35:18
Speaker
And then you go to the community of the school and then you go to the community of the district. Right. And then we go to the community of the education department. Right. i yeah I'm just i'm I'm hopeful for this medicine to reach the hands of people like you and people like your wife and, you know, people who are on this journey of understanding that there is more to education. right And there always was. And
Godex Transformation Tea and Rituals
00:35:40
Speaker
people and and I remember a time in a past life, of course, but I remember a time whenever people would yearn for knowledge. They would sit around the fire and wait and crave to learn today.
00:35:53
Speaker
right And you talk about and you asked about cosmology. I believe deeply that I was able to calculate the stars. And I even still today, i offer sacred natal day readings for star seeds because I believe all children are seeded from the stars.
00:36:09
Speaker
um That is a Cherokee belief. And all children deserve a clan mother and they deserve their names because our names were taken from us. And these sacred natal days are something that I believe that I bestowed upon all of the Cherokee children that were born. And I was able to calculate them and give them this medicine.
00:36:25
Speaker
And I think that it is vital to give children this medicine as early as possible. Like Alfred Adler was saying, just a different idea, right? Because the earlier you give it to them, the less they have to unlearn.
00:36:38
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:41
Speaker
I, um, thank you for sharing and, uh, thank you for this space. Yeah. I mean, um if it, in talking with you, it seems like, uh, you know, getting into it all at the same time, the the creativity, health, learning, yeah um, spirituality.
00:37:05
Speaker
uh,
00:37:07
Speaker
We also order your tea. oh The Godex transformation tea. Hold yeah I'm a big tea person. I believe in tea. I believe in properties of roots and plants.
00:37:22
Speaker
Yes. So... so Let's just talk about the tea amidst all this. I'm believer in the power of tea. I am so excited. And and let me say, GodX Transformation Tea is so happy that it gets a spotlight. So it's saying thank you right now. um The GodX Transformation Tea for me is something that was crafted completely accidentally, but purposefully.
00:37:46
Speaker
How spirit always works, right? I um found myself in the midst of my healing journey before I had begun my first book. And I sat in ceremony and, you know, some people sit in ceremony and they use the healing energies of their hands to pull a tarot card or they'll, they do a lot of other things. What I decided to do was go to my plant medicines.
00:38:05
Speaker
And I said, okay, guys, I need a tea today. I said, I want a tea that is good for the mind, the body, the spirit that's going to guide me through these transitions.
00:38:15
Speaker
I need something that's good for me. I just like all encompassing. don't know what I want. I closed my eyes and I let my hand lead. And I said, no more than five, just because like five is five is my max. That's a lot to mix. Right. Just, just because I'm sassy.
00:38:28
Speaker
And so, yeah. five ingredients came out and I was like, all right, cool. And I've done this so often. I'm going to be honest. I had done this plenty of times before. And this time it just felt different. And I got five herbs, it five herbs and flowers. I got calendula, lavender, hibiscus, butterfly, pea flower, and mullein, the sacred, sacred, wise guider of the lungs and the chest cavities.
00:38:52
Speaker
So um I don't know if you know a lot about mullein, but mullein was often used in indigenous communities because, you know, we did a lot of tobacco ceremonies, right? We had a lot of mucus in our um chest. So what they would do is they would have mullein, which is another herb, and it works as a cleanser for the respiratories like nature's mucinex.
00:39:10
Speaker
um So I always love to put it in everything I do because I have a daily communion with my mama ganja and I make sure that I am settled and I am one with spirit. Right. yeah um So I put that in everything.
00:39:22
Speaker
That's just something that I love to do. And um the most bad magical thing happened. I poured some hot water over it and it turned in this lustrous, like deep purple color. almost like ah like a third eye crown chakra vibes. It was just fabulously done. And I said, oh, we've got something here.
00:39:40
Speaker
So then it came, what ah what are we going to name this? And I'm two spirit. So like I'm a goddess, but I'm also a god at times, you know? And I reckon and i did a lot of research search on this. And I recognized that a lot of gods and goddesses felt the exact same way.
00:39:54
Speaker
yeah a lot of them went back and forth between the binary because that was natural. So it became known as the Godex Transformation Tea. I started selling it. I have had such beautiful um responses to it. I'm excited about a future endeavor with the Godex Transformation Tea. So um stay post stay posted. i think that you'll see the Godex Transformation Tea in a brand new shimmery light.
00:40:23
Speaker
Still the same healing of the herbs, but it's going to be much more fun to drink. That's what I'll say. Yeah, there was something about, ah for me, that really connected to was about, you know, your connection to the things that came together. One of the things that's happened for me over time is I've been...
00:40:45
Speaker
Trying to, i but throughout my life, I felt really disconnected ah in receiving the signals about what's going on myself health-wise, but also being able to be connected on the outside to what can heal. when you describe that, it had a really impact on my head.
00:41:07
Speaker
I've been improving you know, in this, in this area. And at times, even with tea being like at a time during the day in a place and be like, I need this.
00:41:21
Speaker
Like, maybe i used to need my, like, I need my like bubble gum or something, you know, or like, I, yes, I need it. You know, i And and i connect to us.
00:41:31
Speaker
That's so vital because, you know, and I, and I, I even wrote about this in like an email that I sent out to my email subscribers a while back, but the idea of bringing back ritual and ceremony into the everyday mundane tasks, like just having a a glass of tea, that is a ceremony, right? And, and whenever you start to recognize that everything we do is a sacred rever Reverence to who we are, what we chose to come back as, right? whenever you Whenever you, even the idea of heating up water, think about how you're changing that chemical element, right? You're changing the water.
00:42:13
Speaker
You're changing the flower petals. They're working together. That right there is sacred reciprocity. That's all the herbs working with one with the water. And then if you go an extra step and you speak to the water, because we know water holds memory.
00:42:26
Speaker
That has been scientifically proven. You speak to the water and you say what you need today. And the herbs, you talk to them specifically and say, oh, Kalindala, will you help me with this? Oh, hibiscus, will you help me?
00:42:38
Speaker
Thank you, Mullen, I appreciate you.
00:42:42
Speaker
then that alone elevates your ritual, it elevates your ceremony, it elevates your mindfulness experience, right? And that is what our souls crave. They crave purposeful, intentional acts in the present moment because the present moment right here is where we can actually manifest the most abundant energy of self.
00:43:03
Speaker
If we are caught in the future, that doesn't exist. We don't know that exact space and time, so we can't manifest energy there. If we are thinking about in the past, we can't manifest energy there because that's literally already gone.
00:43:15
Speaker
We can only manifest truly in the present moment. And so many of us are caught in this loop of distraction of, you know, where where they want our heads turned at this time. And
Mindfulness, Breath, and Physical Reconnection
00:43:25
Speaker
it takes us from the beauty and the power of that present moment and that ritual of sitting with a cup of tea,
00:43:33
Speaker
Right. Yeah. i I think it's important to point that out because even find myself and I live a pretty, pretty intensely and feel pretty intensely in what I do.
00:43:49
Speaker
And sometimes even the approach to the things that can heal, such as to like, shit, I got my teeth. Boom. Let me go. Fitz in the middle as I'm driving over here rather than being like, yo, yo.
00:44:01
Speaker
yo You just been dealing with bullshit for three hours. Like 10 minutes, put on an album. Yes, I did this to myself today, kid. I'm going to do it a little bit later.
00:44:15
Speaker
This is great to talk. I'm going to remember it later on. Literally, no, I did this to myself today. I ordered, i got some food because for me, I but i but i was working, working, and working. and And I almost took the food to my desk right here yeah yeah and started eating and working. And I said,
00:44:32
Speaker
No, nourish your body. Stop. Sit down. What are you doing? Yeah, it's so easy because we've been caught up in this world for so long, the world that is run by manifestors and generators, and we love the energy, right?
00:44:45
Speaker
But there is the need to slow down. And that's the main part of meditation and calming the nervous system that a lot of people don't recognize, right? A lot of therapists will say, just start walking slower and see what happens.
00:44:59
Speaker
Right? right? Because that is the act of reprogramming the nervous system, just slowing down for a second, taking a second thought and recognizing, Oh, where does that thought come from?
00:45:10
Speaker
Is that me? Or is that a programming that was put on me? Right? Why am I doing these things? And it really just, it helps you just grow that self-awareness of it. I, um, speaking about the connection about where you are, there's been a few times
00:45:29
Speaker
Like I'm moving so fast with what I'm doing for so long. I'll step into the energy of a space, might be a yoga studio or someplace.
00:45:42
Speaker
I feel like I'm running into the freaking room and like, wow, I'm like going a hundred miles an hour and everybody else is you know? yeah And you feel that dissonance.
00:45:53
Speaker
Yeah. And I'm like, man, I'm all jacked up. Like I'm not in good shape. Yes. Yes. No. And that's a lot of things. Like people will talk about earthing. They'll talk about grounding. Right. But like, that's truly what it is. It's like, it's just the act of coming back into your body because, you know, I always like to say whenever you're in a creative flow, like whenever you probably you love what you do.
00:46:15
Speaker
right i love what i do so when we get into a creative flow a lot of the times it is it's high level energy it's very much up here in the chakra above the crown chakra that is information flowing in that is it that is a a highly influential space but also it's important to take that time because you have to bring your spirit back into your physical body yeah and remember you are an earth being Right. And a lot of times we get we can get caught up in and something that has been so crucial for me is coming back to my body with movement.
00:46:48
Speaker
Right. You mentioned yoga, but like truly yoga is beautiful because it makes you breathe in tune with your body. right so many other things you know if you don't work out if you don't breathe correctly when you work out you know you you you can definitely tell the effects but yoga truly you must move in and out with each breath and it really does recenter because the breath is the only thing because we we are the only beings that can actually control our ability to live so think about it we can actually just stop breathing just go ahead stop
00:47:25
Speaker
And we can decide to do that for however long we want to. So in essence, we could decide to stop breathing and to stop our own hearts. That is why the power of the prana, the life force is so powerful.
00:47:39
Speaker
Because whenever we intentionally use it to go to those certain areas of our body, it can literally bring that energy back down to center and ground you.
00:47:51
Speaker
Right. And that's why you feel that in your energy all up in the spaces because you were channeling. Right. you You need to come back down to that body, to that ground and that breath. Right.
00:48:06
Speaker
And we can and and we can do that. But like the world doesn't want us to do that.
00:48:12
Speaker
i'm I'm listening here. There's a moment there. as I gotta remember I'm hosting this damn thing. I'm throttling too
Spiritual Practices with the Moon
00:48:21
Speaker
thin. Sorry. No, like, I'm taking it in because they...
00:48:28
Speaker
I don't know. It's, um, odd stuff to talk about and open up the space and be like, let's talk. Let's, let's, let's talk about this. I, um, I came into contact.
00:48:39
Speaker
Um, I'm looking for the book now. I'm terrible with my book, but, um, um Steph Little Bird had done the cover of of this of this book, but it was it was connected to, very directly connected to the types of moons and the energy that comes from the types of moon.
00:49:00
Speaker
And I just noticed, think it was a night or two ago, it was strawberry moon. Strawberry moon in Sagittarius, it was. yeah he tell me There was a big deal about the eyesore. was gorgeous and everything. I didn't read, but like just for an example of like how you view the presence of that at that time, particularly within the... so thank you're out you know I believe that there is such power, Ken, in asking the right questions.
00:49:32
Speaker
And you, sir, ask the right questions. Thank Let tell you that. Thank you. I am very in tune with the moon. I am a Cancer. i um have always felt a connection Selene, the moon goddess.
00:49:47
Speaker
um I've also felt a connection to the moon because Indigenous people see the moon as the overseer of all children being born on Earth. um I, as a child, don't know if you know about an anime, Sailor Moon was a yeah huge influence in my life. And as you know, she turns out to be the princess of the moon, Princess Serenity.
00:50:08
Speaker
And um so I think that understanding how the cycles of the moon worked with human nature and the human body were amazing. always inlaid within me as a child.
00:50:20
Speaker
um You know, it's always been a deep core, just understanding and understanding of and acknowledging that, well, if the moon controls the tides, it must control me also. Because what am I but water?
00:50:34
Speaker
So I think that there's a lot to recognizing the moon cycles and also recognizing that our calendar currently, if we're going to talk about decolonizing space and time does not flow with the moon cycles and the moon, the lunar calendar, like it should, it doesn't go but the, the sacred natal day, the Venus sacred natal day calendars anymore, which is why our calendars are so off kilter, but that's another conversation for today as well.
00:51:00
Speaker
My, um, ah My mom's cancer too and really connected to moon like stars. like Just the idea of like looking at those stars yeah when i was when I was really young. yeah Cancers are usually usually they're very um insightful beings who like to look at the stars and the moon and like to be up at night.
00:51:25
Speaker
Heck yeah. We're moon gazers through and through. Heck yeah. Yeah. I actually make water every single full moon and I put my crystals on top of it and I have moon water that i yeah always have with me in my bag with a little obsidian and a little sage just in case I need to cleanse the space.
00:51:43
Speaker
I was
Hermetic Philosophy and Caitlin's Vision for Social Media
00:51:44
Speaker
taught to the idea and the words were Debbie to have those type of things and have them cleanse. No, energize. Energize in that full moon. Yes, exactly.
00:51:57
Speaker
all right it's It's powerful. And, you know, again, anything with the right intention. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. Um, title of the show. Why is there something rather than nothing? Are you interested in that? Do you have the ultimate answer that question?
00:52:14
Speaker
Oh, something. Why am I something rather than nothing? Or why are you rather something? Oh,
00:52:22
Speaker
oh well, that's yeah. Um,
00:52:27
Speaker
what why why Why is it all here? Why is it all here? Why are we in a world of something if we are? I feel like...
00:52:38
Speaker
e Where there is one thing, there is always another. This is another hermetic philosophy. There is always a divine counterpart to everything, a divine balance.
00:52:48
Speaker
Where there is dark, there is light. Where there is something, there is nothing. yeah right One of my deepest medicine ceremonies, um I had an experience where... I'm recognizing my um abilities that were inlaid in me since childhood. I think that I was an indigenous dreamwalker and now I have recognized my deep ability to go into the Akashic realm and speak and channel with these spirits.
00:53:12
Speaker
So um something that has been deeply transformational for me is this work. right this This process of finding your way back to self, this process of finding your way back to spirit, of finding your way back to your truth at the end of the day and and grabbing hold of it and not letting go um and just allowing your story to impact somebody else.
00:53:37
Speaker
And that's truly what it is. um Just... being what you can be, putting out good into the world, like like we say, positive intention, positive intent. um And that's really that's really where I like to lead because in this medicine ceremony, I saw everything was nothing, and but nothing is truly everything at the same time.
00:53:59
Speaker
yeah so in that vastness, in that void, in that space, you can have such gratitude, right? Because it could be nothing, but it could be something.
00:54:11
Speaker
I'm there with you. I'm right there you. It depends on your intent. Yeah. um
00:54:20
Speaker
Listeners have... listen to us as we try to cover all the things. no There's like a thousand things. So many.
00:54:31
Speaker
I just want to say with like in talking you, I've appreciated like just like openness in and just like you know like I said, maybe talk about things that are like, where's this from? How's this fit here? I love...
00:54:45
Speaker
I love um ah connecting with that. You do a lot of different things. And, like, um how do you how do folks interact with you, work with you, learn from you, get the goddess tea from you? Yes, yes. However they wish to approach.
00:55:08
Speaker
ah Yeah, so... Well, I have to say first that I appreciate the space that you have held here, Ken. If if anything, I appreciate your ah your sound reverence throughout this whole process and bringing us back to topics and and allowing that space. So thank you for this space. Thank you very was cultivated in in this co-creation. I appreciate it deeply. Mm-hmm.
00:55:30
Speaker
If people wish to interact with me, I am always on Instagram. um They can DM me. i am I am always trying to respond to my DMs as quickly as I can. Now, since I've been collaborating with Steph, it's been a little hard to keep up with all of the comments and DMs, but um they can also look in the links in my bio. I have my website for CherokeeStarSeeds.org where they can learn all about sacred natal days and finding their indigenous star sign.
00:55:56
Speaker
um I also have my ah website for Rematriate the World where you can find the link and you can sign up for ah emails from me. I send out an email, a monthly musing every single month.
00:56:08
Speaker
I try to keep them as potent and them ah purposeful as I can. And I always send a little gifty to my um newsletter subscribers. And you can also find my GodX Transformation Tea website at drinkgodx.org.
00:56:22
Speaker
I ship it out to you and you always get a little something extra from me. I'm actually, I'll premiere them. I'm working on wink, wink, wink. I hope Steph hears this. Working with Steph to have something of hers in every order that I send out of my GodX Transformation Tea.
00:56:39
Speaker
So be looking for that in the future as well. Yeah. And that's with us being big members of the Steph Little Bird. Oh yeah. She is impactful. And I look forward, like I said, to continuing to put her artwork on every single book that I publish and, I continuing truth telling and spreading the word, um, on our platforms together.
00:57:00
Speaker
Yeah. It's been, uh, again, and just spend in the moment, like, like you, like you did, um, the, um,
00:57:12
Speaker
I find it profound ah for myself in the sense of change to be encountering over years expansive, beautiful learning through different nations, different indigenous around the world.
00:57:30
Speaker
Yes. and yeah There's something in my head where it's like I'm always looking for space for people to realize, like, whatever you think or have been poisoned in your head, that it's not important, that it's degraded, that it's whatever.
00:57:49
Speaker
Like, what is the space to get in and see beauty in other ways? Exactly. And don't, I just think we keep trying to chip, you know, chip at that and and get in there and be to have wonder.
00:58:06
Speaker
Yes. Like, yeah I wonder what that. And that alone is the greatest question, right? Like, I wonder, or i I'm excited about, right? Just being excited that that energy is abundance.
00:58:19
Speaker
Right. And I think that you you mentioned something really powerful, like this this question, this idea, this ah this transformation that people must go through, this understanding of the mindset, this I think it's the transition of knowledge based understanding versus lived inner standing.
00:58:39
Speaker
Right. And that's the difference. Right. So whenever they people take that step They make that choice. You know, Jesus, he said, everybody's got a choice. I believe this is what he was talking about. You have the choice whether you would like to step on the pathway of healing, whether you would like to do that or not. You don't have to, but you will turn to the light someday.
00:59:02
Speaker
Yeah. And that is fact in whatever lifetime you choose to do it.
00:59:08
Speaker
All right, Katie Marie, you hit it right there at the end. ah Such a pleasure to talk with you. um I know I'll be in touch.
00:59:20
Speaker
Totally. to to to learn to To learn more. and um And thank you. I mean, even just like. You know, even talking about like the social media and how we connect and see, you know, it's an image of a step little bird and connected to the work that you're doing. And just being like, here's the image, here's the words, here's the ideas.
00:59:44
Speaker
And let's chat and like yeah figure out stuff. Yes. And, you know, and that that work is deeply resonant for me as well, because I also I call myself a spiritual business baddie, trademarked. um im Oh, yes. I'm a spiritual social media business strategist. So, i'm yeah, i'm coming through in the new series of social media. Yes, because here's what I believe.
01:00:04
Speaker
I believe
Conclusion and Call to Action
01:00:05
Speaker
for a long time social media and can I do this? Can I keep going? You can. my gosh. oh I was like, I'm taking your time, but like, where is she an horrible tangent okay this, this is something I believe in deeply. And I'm glad that you brought it up because for a very long time, I think social media has been controlled by dark, controlled by fear, controlled by ego.
01:00:24
Speaker
And in this new age of Aquarius, we are starting to see lightworkers, get more than they used to. It is starting to shift in the energies of what is received online and what is not.
01:00:39
Speaker
And Meta is coming back at that. And they're trying to reinstate that flow that they liked to have where a lot of, you know, white creators were getting the promotions and not a lot of black, indigenous or brown creators.
01:00:55
Speaker
Right. um So I so something that I like to do is I push out. Lightworkers, I magnify that magic on social media. And that is my duty and my job. And I hope someday to cultivate a social media that is beyond anything that we have created so far, something that is truly made for connectivity and not for control.
01:01:18
Speaker
Wow. Yeah. um Radical reshaping. That's it, yes. i have Another radical reshaping. It is on the way. It has been in the works. And I am excited to maybe push it out. it might take a while, but I want to make it sure it's ready for the but the communities.
01:01:38
Speaker
Yeah, we'll talk ah we'll we'll talk about that too. Absolutely. wow Wow. Thank you. big Big idea, right? I mean, whether you're... being fed into the machine or you can kind of just, good we're interacting. How can we interact in a very different way not the business we're up to right And I believe that, um you know, ah creative problems require creative solutions.
01:02:05
Speaker
There we go. I'm a collectivist. so Same. Preach.
01:02:13
Speaker
Thank you, Katie Marie. Thank you, Ken. Thank you much. From the... I always get to give a shout out to Chicago. Yes, Chicago. Chicago. I love my Chicago. not I yeah got everybody from all over the world here, but I love my Chicago. Oh, me too. Oh, my gosh.
01:02:33
Speaker
Thank you for everything you do, Kate and Marie. And folks, engage, check out, rethink, and learn. Rematriate.
01:02:44
Speaker
remastream Rematriate. The world. Love the world. Thank you.
01:02:56
Speaker
Thank you. This is something rather than nothing.
01:03:06
Speaker
And listeners, to stay connected with us and our guests, visit somethingratherthannothing.com. Join our mailing list for exclusive updates and access to guest-created art.
01:03:17
Speaker
If you enjoyed this episode or any episode, please like, subscribe, and leave a review on your podcast platform. People really read that shit. Your support helps us reach more listeners and spread our community across the planet.
01:03:31
Speaker
This is a global show and we like to give a shout out to our many listeners across the world, including many listeners in Canada, Spain, Germany, UK, Argentina, Brazil, India, Thailand, and so many more places.
01:03:46
Speaker
Be sure to follow us on Instagram at something rather than nothing podcast for behind the scenes content. And the best way to help the show is to tell your friends about us.
01:03:58
Speaker
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