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Rachael Tyrell
256 Plays2 days ago
Rachael Tyrell aims to create art that reimagines classic pinup aesthetics through a contemporary lens. Working primarily with Sharpies and various inks, she crafts pieces that radiate raw energy.
Her sculptural work transforms everyday objects into surreal expressions, challenging expectations.
Drawing from her background as a model, Rachael's art explores the fluid boundary between being seen and seeing. She wields ink with intention as each permanent line shapes her distinctive visual language.
Her autobiographical zines blend intimate narrative with striking imagery and have traveled with her to zine fests in Los Angeles, Detroit, and Portland. They hint at stories untold and adventures yet to come. Beyond her art, Rachael steps behind the decks as a DJ and hopes to be a quiet catalyst for others' creativity. Her artistic universe embraces contradiction and invites viewers into a world where art becomes a shared secret.
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Transcript
Meeting Rachel and the world of zines
00:00:22
Speaker
are already already talking. And um it's is so really cool to ah to meet you, Rachel. um I got a zine of yours up at ah Floating World Comics.
00:00:35
Speaker
Oh, really? The first person I've heard who got one there, they sell out of them and stuff, and they enjoy my stickers. I have some more, actually, the replenished um and new titles, actually. That's reminding me. Yeah, Floating World. Wow. So, ah what made you buy
Impact of zines on personal struggles
00:00:50
Speaker
it? That's what I wanted. to Like, why something rather than nothing? Why? um ah Is it I Belong to Me? That's the probably the only series. I Belong to Me, yeah. Okay, which one? The photography, um two and three.
00:01:00
Speaker
Oh, two and three. Oh. Yeah. Yeah. And the the photography um the illustration, um the the subject matter. To be honest, I've been around folks who struggled on issue three with a body dysmorphic disorder and this forthrightness. And i find that zines I find that zines can really help people. There's a direct way of communicating.
00:01:26
Speaker
And so I thought that was great. i I got I belong to me. We're going to bounce back questions back and forth off each other. I know that. Let me ask one first.
Empowerment through zines
00:01:36
Speaker
ah Tell us about I belong to me. Tell us about zines and why zines. I adore zines, but that's me. Tell us about I belong to me.
00:01:44
Speaker
um Much like everything in my life, I'm a late bloomer. And zines, they seem to, from what I've observed now, they seem to go through a renaissance every you know say like every seven to nine years is what I've informally observed. you know They go on the hot thing and then someone else picks it up and then, oh, zines are dead, whatever. But zines are the most immediate and accessible way to, I don't want to say get your message out, that sounds so cheesy. but um Who's going to stop you? You're going to make it. Who's going to stop you? like I did a um a little informal workshop at my older kids' middle school about zines because the art ah the art instructor was really into it. And I was like, okay, fine. I'll do this well on the spot. you know And kids were asking me like, Why do you do this? Or or who's letting you do this? like Somebody asked, who is letting you do this? I'm like, letting you do this. You, you're letting yourself do this. I was like, well, I don't think I have anything to say. I said, oh, you have plenty to
Cultural impact of zines
00:02:38
Speaker
say. That's even saying enough right there. you know I said, a zine can be anything. like For example, when I went to the Detroit Zine Fest, I had um kind of manifested travel last year. At the end of last year, I was like, hey, you know what?
00:02:50
Speaker
These zines got enough of a thing a little bit. Maybe I can get some travel involved with some of the travel and see some places and go with the zine. So much of the zine fest. And um there was a lady giving out at the end, she was giving these out. They were the folded mini zines that are so fun and delightful to fold. Yeah, that's great. But she'd spent a little bit of money. They were color. And two fold, I learned a couple things with her zine.
00:03:12
Speaker
how to spell or how to pronounce Ham
Art as survival and revolution
00:03:15
Speaker
-tram-ic, Michigan. It's spelled H-A-M-T-R-A-M-C-K, right? The mind boggles. This little ham tramp. It's ham tran-muk, like ham tran-muk.
00:03:29
Speaker
And they were backyards from the 70s in color, in this mini-zine. And I told this kid that. I said, there's this woman. I said, you you're not going to probably relate exactly. You know, you're like seventh grade. But this woman, you know, who's going to stop her? yeah But I also said, too, um it's all on your message. You know, I was basically trying to say, um Do we say bad words at all i'm trying not to yeah yeah so i was trying to see in so many words like if you're an asshole you're gonna get your ass handed to you kind of things on the message you know like yes it's not an artist need the transphobic you know racist fascist whatever um you might have an audience with that is that the right audience that you want and.
00:04:11
Speaker
People aren't going to be as receptive to that, sort of especially in Portland. you know Maybe if you go out and you're like, Idaho, I don't know. I can't speak for anybody else, but you know what I mean? You've got to yeah sure um like know your audience, I guess, know what you know. and Also, you can do a deep dive in something I told him that you don't know. youre You're not going to proclaim yourself the authority, or maybe you can in the zine. Who's
Role of art in society
00:04:28
Speaker
going to stop you? That's kind of my thing. Who is going to stop you? Should they stop you? I don't know. You stop yourself. We stop ourselves enough with our limitations.
00:04:36
Speaker
Yeah. Well, I think that's right. When and when folks ask you the questions like, how'd you get this published? You know, there's this historical idea that there has to be like, you know, industry where and you look at DIY and and in in in sharing and getting this out has its own, the culture of its own. And i like the I like the power of that. And I found that myself, I talked about this before on the show, like,
00:05:00
Speaker
ah When I was younger, I'd walk past. It's like the opposite for me. Like again, you said late bloomer like yourself. Like when I was younger, I walked past small press, like these small press. I was like a little bit of a like literary snob when I was younger, like in my head, you know, like I like trashy stuff, but like a snob in the way of like, I didn't look at small press or zines. I'm like, what is all that? no Relatable, right? Yeah. yeah and And then as I've gotten along and seen in Portland and places like Seattle Oh, yeah, and um you know talking about music somebody does a deep dive on some weird true crime story from like 70s Oregon like go with it like I want to read that and Did you just nice these nice threads? Um, and a great work by the way, I just want to say that appreciate i i I reread it um just recently I I belong to me, everybody, the the zine by a Rachel
Personal challenges and artistic expression
00:05:53
Speaker
Tyrell. One of the things I picked out within it that I remembered was how many questions you asked in it. And I like made a note in my mind. I'm like, that's what I do on my show. So I was like, in your narrative, a lot of people are very uncomfortable with like telling a narrative and popping up a questions because I think in their head it fucks it up. Like for everybody, like the narrative is supposed to flow. I love questions and like,
00:06:17
Speaker
oh bumping those in there and kind of like disrupting and um, I I love that in your scene just these big questions that made me think and Great effect. Oh, well, thank you. I appreciate it. So zines with the democrat democratization of it, you know, it really just um, I guess globalization mask, I mean, you know, you can do them from anywhere um you know, some people do their slick thing like like what you're saying about being a snob sort of about stuff and And I think it's part of my ADHD, too. When I look at a book, or I'm given a book or something, I can't really read it if the font is off in any way, the typeset. God forbid I see a typo. Oh my God. Like, okay, in this world now. Headcrashes. Headcrashes. Just of discombobulated. No, no, I can't do it. So I push it back. So that's why I feel like audiobooks are such a great... um
00:07:06
Speaker
you know, leveling out of stuff. um you You can choose the same voice, just do this kind of thing. And sometimes I do enjoy narration, but it's all on the narrator too. And I feel like zines, you are really, um you're creating and you're narrating too, and mine are really semi autobiographical.
00:07:23
Speaker
Out right like write what you know, right? I was like, let's take a deep dive into this and how would I? Present it and I did this really unselfconsciously, you know, I started with the the art which is a whole other thing and I really avoided writing for about 20 years seriously, I used to be like a good writer, you know do things good writing blah blah, you know all the stuff and yeah, I was like, I this isn't fulfilling for me. It wasn't cathartic anymore, but these scenes are very cathartic. Those had to come out. The first four were just like the first one, especially. Then the second, third one flowed, but I combined the art and the writing. I ended up just writing because it was so cathartic. I was going through... I mean, when aren't we all going through the human drama? Yeah.
00:08:06
Speaker
Um, this stuff was so overwhelming. Um, you know, I have a therapist and stuff, but it wasn't really cutting it with just the amount of stuff that needed to spew forth. Right. So I just started, um, doing it like pro style, just sort of stream of consciousness at first.
Imposter syndrome in creativity
00:08:20
Speaker
A lot of the, the first two zines are really still that stream of consciousness.
00:08:24
Speaker
I was like, um don't over-edit it. you know Maybe less is more sometimes, but does this make sense to me anymore? It was just kind of a compulsion. It had to come out. and Then I'm like, well, wait a minute. I'm doing this art. Okay. Can I combine the two? and I combined the two to better effect, I feel. I think they've been um much more well-received putting them together than doing them on their own. Yeah.
00:08:47
Speaker
That's kind of a better way to put it what was the question you're thinking of um from the the zine if you might be asking can you remember I'm gonna i know I'm gonna look at it. I'm gonna look at a rate I'm gonna look at it right now then that was the like I said There was one here. There was isn't it an innate human desire the longing to be truly seen truly seen in caps and um You know, like talking to artists and thinking about like big questions like, you know, it's like has to do with things like loneliness or misunderstanding and communication. Like I want to be like seen like like know me and um ah I love that. I love that question.
Self-awareness through art
00:09:31
Speaker
um I wanted to ask you a big question. Then I know you're going to hit me with a couple. ah Rachel, Rachel, what is art?
00:09:39
Speaker
Well, here's the thing. So I had made myself a little outline. like I kind of will just spew on these a little bit and then um go. Okay. So this is from the beginning where I started. I went kind of from a couple of days ago to just sort of immediately, like actually a few moments ago before I logged on. So art's anything that makes you feel something and it doesn't have to be a fixed object. It's connected directly to emotion and perception.
00:10:04
Speaker
That's in my opinion. um It's less about the medium, really. It's more about the internal response that it generates. That's the way I feel about it. Like it can be a tangible object, of course. It can be an intangible object. I feel like it can even be a spiritual experience. It can be um even maybe what you misunderstand, you know, how the mind and memory We'll play tricks and you'll have these little vignettes and things. um It can be that. ah It's the internal alchemy that it sparks. That's what I put from within you. And it's the expression system that really hit me where I was like, did I write this? Yeah, I did. It's the expression of the profound sensitivity to the world around and within us. So that all sounds really good. and then
00:10:48
Speaker
Oh, then i was I was answering your something rather than nothing. We'll talk about that in a moment. So art is survival, resistance, and revolution. I'm like, oh, let's go home. That's what it is. um ah Ultimately, but it's many of these things. And then it's all of them combined. And then maybe it's nothing of them, too. you know so It doesn't need framing. i put It's like watching the sunset through a smog-steined window and finding it more beautiful for its corruption. OK. Wow.
00:11:17
Speaker
Does that answer? I mean, does that partially? I love that. I love that answer. I love the energy in it and like the kind of um There's a provocation in art for me, like the energy that's in it, like a confrontation and a provocation. It doesn't have to be outlandish, but there's something about art in that way that I really feel... it now i um ah let me ah I am to sneak one more in. What is the role of but about the role of art? um and and then ah and And then I'm going to answer a couple of your questions. and Yeah.
00:11:56
Speaker
um The role of art changed, like it's late 2024, we're recording. A lot of people I talk to, man, shit's heavy, right? Politics. If you're not angry, you're not paying attention. anger Yeah, like politics, anger, ah income inequality, which almost makes me puke. yeah Things like that. How did we get here? i mean absolutely like it wasn't if if if this has like if the you know If it's something like this, or you feel something like this, has the role of art changed now? Or is it still art-arting, no matter when it's popping up?
00:12:31
Speaker
It's
Freedom and experimentation in art
00:12:32
Speaker
always going to pop no matter when it's popping up, but obviously, you know, the pendulum swings and I really feel like art, especially in zines and things that are really DIY, you know, like who's going to stop? Well, we'll find out, right? Who's going to stop you besides yourself, right? and why you express it, you know, the compulsion of that inequality of like, you know, to be seen again, right, to be seen. um However, that is, you know, nobody imagines, you know, at least i'm I know some people for myself, I didn't imagine I'd be here. First of all, I didn't think I'd live this long, number one. Number two, what is even happening right now? You know, like, if you're not mad, you're not paying attention.
00:13:11
Speaker
if you're not, um you know, keeping up with stuff. But then it's the doom scroll though, then it's the yeah social media social um networks have us as product, right? So if we're not paying for the product, we are the product. And I tell my kids of the time, ah time is money thing. So if you're not paying money, you're paying with your time, with your energy, right? And isn't that kind of what's going on with labor wages and the powers that you want to create more children so they can you know have more of a labor class. right so If you don't have kids, you don't have a labor class right to work for these wannabe oligarchs and all of that. I guess that's a digressing dramatic- No, no. it's Actually, that part was framing as far as some of the political dynamics. I'm digressing a bit, but the motivations I think are different. and I think when you're really compelled, you're angry, you're frustrated, you're disenfranchised. um
00:14:04
Speaker
ah In these, incorrigible is even the wrong word. Incorrigible kind of implies fun. um Irredeemable, is that the right word for this? Where some of these are like irredeemable, you know what and I mean? Like like you can only gaslight yourself so much. Like what's that? I mean, i'm I'm kind of the meme queen with all my friends. I have a meme for everything, by the way, a meme for every single thing.
00:14:25
Speaker
um And this one with that dog with the fire and it's like, this is fine. Like how are we, what's our version of that right now? And I'm just trying to be cool, calm and collected or pretend to be at least, you know, for my kids and just kind of.
00:14:38
Speaker
you know, take it in, just teach them to be critical thinkers. You know, for me, it's like, ah you can go to school, sure. We were briefly talking earlier about school stuff and and things. their My goal to teach them is to be an independent, relatively happy is a whole other thing, but self-reliant, self-reliant, independent, and also critical thinkers, because I believe that's the problem here. They want people to be uneducated. They the greater they that I don't want to be a part of. They want people to be uneducated so they can be manipulated really easily. And what are the stats? I shared this on my Instagram. It's 51% of Americans now. I try not to say anything. I can't absolutely back up. And I revise my opinions and my things based on new information. But I believe it is. I will triple check this. It's 51% of Americans can only read at an eighth grade level or below. And out of those,
00:15:31
Speaker
35% can read sixth grade or below. You know, so this educated leads or whatever you want to call it or whatever the name calling from the other whatever, right? When did education become like an opinion like science? Well, I'm not gonna digress on that. When did it all become oh just an opinion? You know what I mean? like Here's an example. God, I don't want to but say this one, but a
Challenges in creative professions
00:15:57
Speaker
long time ago, my kids' lives right when they're 10 and 13 now, ah my younger one asked me, we're on the drive back and randomly asked me out of nowhere, is Florida a country?
00:16:08
Speaker
Mike dropped a little bit. I was like, is she, is she serious? I'm not trying to react. I'm like, oh my God, have I failed as a parent? No, but I'm like, okay, is this like a provocation? Is she seriously saying, okay, let's, let's go with this. And I'm like, well, they wish they were a country. I'm pretty sure they are like big enough to be a country. They're bigger than most countries. But I said, no, honey, they're a state. And then we kind of went in on the state thing. And um long story short about, about thrifting, my parents met at the West Hollywood swap meet. So,
00:16:36
Speaker
I've been involved in that my entire life. So I was like, you know what I'm going to do? This never happens. I go to a thrift store and I need something. I can never find it. But I'm like, I'm going to go get a goddamn globe. I'm going to the Goodwill. I'm going to get a goddamn globe and I'm going to like, and I found a globe. I found a black globe for my goss sense to be like on this little black globe from 2010. I was like, okay, fair enough. There's going to be some changes, but the states aren't going to change. So bought this globe and Showed her and it was just a much better way to kind of scale um You know size and things and then I was reminding her kind of like I was telling my friends in England when they visited me um They're like, oh, why can't we just drive like an hour and a half to go to Texas? I'm like you don't understand how it works like there's this much on the map but the distance, you know, it's yeah, I mean it means a ratio
00:17:25
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I'm trying to explain that math is not one of my strong suits either. So I have a spatial and kind of spatially challenged too. I'm like, great. So. um Where was the question again? Please be pressed with this. No, we're talking about you know the the the role the role of art right now. these Right, so that's art, too, in um and educating and reframing. It's like education. i mean I think anything that's learning is education. It's not this formal. um It can be as formal as you know a lecture a university or something. But anything that um makes you think and maybe possibly be willing to revise your
00:18:02
Speaker
stance, opinion, morals, values, even. But I don't really see that happening um these days. That's kind of disappointing. you know People, I think, if anything, are more adamant to double and triple down on willful ignorance. Is that the best way to put it? Willful willful deliberate ignorance.
00:18:19
Speaker
Yeah. i um i yeah Well, and and everybody listened to the show ah speaking with Rachel Tyrell, and I was even as far as like edge introducing you about like all the different things you do. I mean, photography, modeling, writing, scene creating, et cetera, et cetera. what What else did I miss? And then ask me a question, because I know you wanted to start off with that.
00:18:43
Speaker
Oh geez, kind of like what haven't I done? you You live long enough, you get to experience a lot of different things. I did acting in all LA and I was um in front and behind the camera. That's a whole interesting other thing too. um The reason why I moved to Pacific Northwest, right? I was like LA through and through. I had a little diversion in Minnesota for two years when I was 27. I met a 19 year old on the internet and moved to Minnesota to be with him. Minnesota and you became a Minnesotan. Don't you know? Yeah, for a couple of years. But going from Los Angeles to this tiny town called Anoka, which was a self-proclaimed capital, Holloman Capital World. I'm like, doesn't Salem have a say in this? Anyway, yeah um that was such a culture shock. It was like, I think at the time, 5,600 population. And I lived in LA like Los Feliz, Hollywood. like I grew up literally in Hollywood, California. like
00:19:35
Speaker
with the Hollywood sign and everything. That's like my whole background. So that was an interesting culture shock. I'd only been in snow once before that. i'm surebarraing Now I'm in the Pacific Northwest. It's but more than making up for it. And when I first drove up to Seattle with some friends, the first thing I said was, Oh my God, there are too many fucking trees.
00:19:54
Speaker
I mean that in the nicest way possible. It's disorienting. It was disorienting. What? What? What's happening? I placed myself. My neck whipping around. Because I understand you're East Coast, right? Yeah, Rhode Island. Rhode Island, yeah. So I need to see some concrete, a couple wires in a tenement building to be able to navigate space. Right? To just kind of navigate. I know it's strange as whatever it is, it's where you kind of come from.
00:20:18
Speaker
um I've done a bunch of different things. I have also been a licensed esthetician. Currently, I guess in the state of Oregon, I'm a certified recovery mentor. That was my last like official paid gig. I'm a mom, but I'm also a university student, and I may be, I'm almost done with this one. I may be going for a master's degree in social work, actually. um my like How old am I going to be when I, you know, whatever. I wasn't even supposed to be here. So I'm like, okay, just, you know, I sit on the campus of this thing, and I may become a therapist of some sort.
00:20:48
Speaker
um Social work, it's such an honorable thing, doesn't pay anything. you know it's why Why are these jobs of the hardest? Well, every job is hard, I guess, but some of these really dedicated people that share the love and share the caring are paid some of the least. You know what I mean?
00:21:05
Speaker
Well, those dedicated to the most vulnerable and in in need of assistance. And, you know, I think on on on the side of the people, it's like, it's just that needs to be honored more. I mean, I think nobody has an expectation of riches, but an expectation of Generational poverty is not a reasonable expectation.
Art in political discourse
00:21:26
Speaker
There's cycles and there's you know epigenetics and all of these things. and There's all the inequalities that contribute to everything, but um ah water shouldn't be a privilege. Water is right. Healthcare care should be a right. Get our politics, yeah. Do it. It's become so gotten special. Everything that's going on with the whole healthcare thing, with you know the the
00:21:49
Speaker
Ivy League folktown hero now, right? With all that going on, just like, you know, at least people are talking, people are thinking. um yeah People have a horrible horror story. You know, there's a comedian on Instagram that did something. I i have Kaiser, I've had them for a long time.
00:22:03
Speaker
um my opinion on the mixed results. So if you're, I'd imagine if you're probably really sick, knock on whatever, haven't really had a deal with that. um They're not great if you're like really sick, but I think they're great as an HMO. At least that's been my experience. If you just smile or not, get your you know immunizations, get you know the ah wellness checks. If you have a big earache, go check it out. you know They're fine. But I believe once yeah you start getting sick, whatever that is, um you know worrying about denial of coverage. Everybody has a horror story about that in this community and was bitching about Kaiser. and What was amazing was it was single-handedly probably the best database in this Instagram comment section of how Kaiser has done all these people dirty. and they were I mean, I was sort of like 200 of these stories just riveted. This is some comedian going off about Kaiser and I'm i'm suddenly feeling the humanity, our shared experience.
00:22:54
Speaker
in having been denied or just questioned, or even worse, the doctor's question, right? And then there was that thing with, um was it Blue Cross Anthem, Blue Shield wanted to deny ah anesthesia, ah limits on anesthesia, what was appropriate for the procedure? What is it, like like pay by the minute, like 976 anesthesia or something, like you're paying by the minute? Holy insufficient for proper care.
00:23:20
Speaker
Right. So what you're going to wake up in the middle of of surgery or something? you know Actually, that happened to me once because I do have a superhuman resistance anesthesia. So I was like, God forbid I'd need anesthesia ever again. Geez, where I'm not going to Blue Cross, right? So everybody has a story with this thing, but it shouldn't be a privilege. and ah Right, right you exist you didn't ask to to exist right you're here um You're thrown into the world. You know reasonably happy and healthy right now this generational poverty, you know, and I am kind of concerned where um You know, may I live long and prosper with this? I have a great grandmother to be 107 and I'm like, oh shit. I'm not even halfway done. Oh my god
00:24:02
Speaker
No, no, no, no, but you're half kidding. but At the end of the year, it could feel like, no matter what, at the end of any year, it could feel like, could I do this another 50%, another 100% worth of time? No, exactly, in quality life and things, you know? Sure. um All of that, I you know was thinking for my kids of like, um I hope that they have at least as well of ah ah existence as I do not worse. It's the thing where um are your kid's going to be worse off than you are. you know And it's it's kind of iffy at any moment. This can all go. Everybody's what? 59% of people are paycheck to paycheck. you know you're one You're one medical disaster away from bankruptcy, right?
00:24:45
Speaker
So it's a lot of people. These are a lot of things to think about. You know, you have to make hard choices of things, you know, um, it's one thing if it were me, I wouldn't, I wouldn't care as much, but if the kids, you know, you have to, um, just in case, take care of yourself a little bit. So you have an okay standard of living. That's more, um, what I think about a lot. And I have a lot of friends in kind of the death care industry. One of my best friends, she's a palliative care nurse and she is a saint.
00:25:11
Speaker
like, yeah stories. are I mean, she's the same, like, it's just amazing. Like, I don't care about what they're paying you, they're not paying you enough, you know? And she goes to these houses, she goes for these death visits, and she's able to, I feel like, it's like playing God, she's able to pronounce the people's, you know, deaths and stuff. And she says the family's the hardest part to work with.
00:25:31
Speaker
Yes, it's the families, it's not the people. um And I'll tell you a really funny anecdote that she said, I just still crack up. One of her patients, um this, this girl's lived quite a while, like not just a couple of weeks, I think it's going on like a month or two, because palliative care is the range, you know, they might have two days, they might have two weeks, they might you know, have this undetermined amount of time. So this one patient of hers, um, not filing HIPAA or anything like that. right She says, I didn't know dying would be so boring. Let's get this goddamn thing done already. That's what her patient said. Wow. That's an approach dying is boring. You know? Okay. I don't know. It'd be so boring. I'm like, Oh, okay. Well, you know, that's great. That's very astute. You know, I'm sure we can make it very,
00:26:15
Speaker
he I rankle in protest and get scared in power and live in horror, but if it's boring, then hey, that's an angle. Yeah, if you can pontificate upon that, right? You can you might be at more peace. Yeah, you can self-actualize maybe that's an ultimate sort of enlightenment in its own way. That was nothing I'd really considered. I was like, well, okay.
00:26:38
Speaker
Well, you know, um, but yeah, the families it's harder and and things and you just um I feel like it's sort of like funerals are like weddings, right? They're for other people. Maybe it feels like you know, they're for other people, right? Um Who knows what happens in the great beyond if there even is you know and all of that um, but you can just hope you've Made peace with yourself, you know, and I feel like that's a day-to-day Process of like I know when I lay down I put my head on the pillow reasonably I'm reasonably well-adjusted and okay with what I've done in life and okay with what I haven't done, you know? yeah And try to leave my example with my you know for my kids and stuff. um so just Yeah. know but Well, just, you know, pace it out to 107 too, maybe, with with some of those genes.
00:27:27
Speaker
Yeah, back then, too. That's a a lot of work, you know, I was like, and there's other women on my mom's side that have lived like, just copious amounts of I'm like, Oh my god, really, like, okay, so we'll see, you know, and bring it on, right? Bring it on. um I don't know if you find you get older, you just, I don't know, it's not that you care less and less.
00:27:46
Speaker
um the things that you worry about, you know, like you see it in other people, the things that you used to worry about, you're like, Oh my God, may I have such simple problems? You know what I mean? The, the make the mountain out of mole Hill, whatever your cliche is of it. yeah Um, I wish I had these problems.
Embracing imperfections in art
00:28:03
Speaker
Now it's like who a whole new world can have ever imagined and You know these things but it's again what you were saying earlier about um we we're talking about the the teacher's thing, right? You're in that fight-or-flight response, right? We're not running from the woolly mammoth, right? You know their spears running from woolly mammoths This is just some person not negotiating a salary thing right not you basic human decency fighting human behavior Yeah, and we're up here this whole time now. It's not good for ah you know for anything, right? Like your cortisol, your ongoing mental health with young people, well everybody, right? I mean, you know my older one was like, oh, why would I need therapy or whatever? I'm like, well, hello, COVID-19 is a major um event catastrophe of our time, right? um My younger one started kindergarten during COVID online. Zero out to zero out of 10 do not recommend.
00:28:53
Speaker
And I got to find out that I was not the homeschooling June Cleaver mom that I wanted to be. but Right. Well, yeah everybody's placed into that, like, spot all of a sudden. So what questions do you have for me? You wanted to flip the tables on this here. Oh, yeah, I did. But did I write them down on this? I wonder if I can go. I guess i even wrote i even wrote down, because i had you forced me into a position where I had to prepare. Of course you. No, no. It's not everybody who writes back and says, ah one of the questions you had was,
00:29:27
Speaker
the first piece of art in any form that moved you. Yeah. she was just thinking How did you come up with this pod? You know, how'd you come up with this podcast? It's, ah you you know, something out of nothing, right?
00:29:41
Speaker
Yeah, on the first thing, this two-tiered answer, and it's actually not too long, but first thing that overwhelmed me that I don't know if I saw it as art, but I see it in art in retrospect, I was a little kid, I was in elementary school. I went on a school trip to Rhode Island School of Design, one of the greatest. Oh, yeah, famously.
00:30:07
Speaker
art schools in the world, I'd say. um And being from Pataka, Rhode Island, Providence is right over there. And yeah they took us city kids on the trip there and you know showing us some art and so some culture. And we went into this room. It was a quiet, darkish room. And to me, and I'm going to use the word massive, there was a massive wooden Buddha.
00:30:33
Speaker
That was in the room and from the 14th century, a weathered had been outside, but the sturdy, big wooden Buddha. And man, that planted itself in my head as a little kid. cause just said okay What is this thing? What is it? like what It's the Buddha. like well What's it mean? like How is it that old? 14th century, right? How is it a thousand years old? How much they hear I'm freaking city rat kid here. Like, what is this thing? And, um,
00:31:08
Speaker
ah so anyway the At that time, I didn't you know view it as art and it's a religious object. it was It was art in my opinion, but I went in my and maybe just maybe about eight, nine years ago. right um ah There's my mid-40s now, going back a little bit, ah just a few years. I'm in there and of course, it wasn't as big or as massive, but I remembered it. I could remember even where some of the divots were in the wood.
00:31:37
Speaker
of the of the wooden statute and characteristics of it. And it wasn't as big, but it was just as powerful and um because I had a snapshot Polaroid in my head when I was a kid of what it looked like. And then I took another one. and But then we can't remember what we had for lunch two days ago, right?
00:31:57
Speaker
but but Right you got the Polaroid down like not I can pull the Polaroid and pull it out of the file cabinet of my computer brain ah that one out of a billion image and the The other piece I wanted to give you to fill out the answer is like when I saw something and was taught something as an art object That really moved me. um It's actually quite classical which I like is some Diego Velasquez, Las Meninas, the famous painting um by Velasquez and really drawn by that in two pieces. One is that I was able to see, and I went to the Prado ah prado in Spain. I was lucky enough to go to Spain when I was
00:32:46
Speaker
uh senior year of high school paid for it myself and kind of finally wow worked really hard yeah yeah and um so uh saw it you know uh live as a matter of fact When I saw Las Meninas, there was somebody painting it in front of it, so it was such a wild idea because if folks aren't familiar with it the painting Las Meninas, a lot of philosophers are written about, a lot of folks have talked about it. And there's these really odd things of where there's a reflection of the artist.
00:33:18
Speaker
in the painting and then there's the royal family who are ostensibly the subjects or objects of the painting. You could see the artist Vlasquez himself painting and so it's this optical illusion angles and such. And um so a lot of philosophers talk about it and think about it but um
00:33:41
Speaker
That was something when I learned about, saw it, was amazed, read about it, was amazed, and then saw it in life. That was amazing. How big is it in person? Yeah. How big is it in person?
00:33:54
Speaker
Um, I remember probably might be like the buddha because get the buddha statue scale Quite big and his his his um being of of that period in a courtly painter they the the scope of them I can't really lay it out for folks. Uh a great question, um, but um classical uh spanish um a royalist style and um Yeah, so I had those experiences, both of those experiences by the time I was 18 and I would say they're kind of like foundational.
Creative processes and patterns
00:34:26
Speaker
Those were formidable, definitely. now Those are definitely formidable. What was the other one that I was really, you've kind of been answering this sort of what drives your curiosity about other people's creative processes. I feel like that's been kind of coming along as we've been talking. um Oh, so here's this one. So um when you interview artists, or I mean, really anybody on your podcast at this point, we're not limiting like, what is art, right? What unexpected connections or patterns have you noticed, if any, I mean,
00:34:55
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Well, that's kind of a deep question. I mean, do you notice any? like i mean i wrote I wrote down some, and this was really helpful. um And I really appreciate you asking these questions because you know on ah you as a question asker and me as a question asker, you know what it can do to kind of collect your thoughts and so answer the question, why the fuck am I doing anything? like No, no, it's true. and like like not um And not asking you in terms of like defending or justifying your existence. No, no, just like what?
00:35:23
Speaker
When I ask that question, let me mention it. When I ask that question, there's always a little bit to it, where it's a little bit uncomfortable. First of all, people in general aren't asked to be you know profound questions regularly. But then when you say, like why are you doing this? And again, it's not an attack. But it's like just philosophically thinking, I could eat a banana, I could take a walk, or I could get out my acrylic paints. you know We're choosing and making these choices. So here's what I've seen.
00:35:49
Speaker
um When I've talked to artists on on my Variety podcast show, um an overwhelming need to create that emanates from these human beings that I talk to, that there is a power bigger that is creative, artistic, from the heavens, that from themselves or from their family that they can't help but do.
00:36:13
Speaker
um Another piece is I see very acutely Points in their life where there is support or lack of support and the impact that makes on Them right a mentor that takes you by the side and say hell nobody's understanding what you're doing But you know what you're fucking brilliant keep doing it right like those those and and again the roles of um ah Clergy people teachers parents when they make an off-handed comment of being like what the heck is that you know about that Sketch you've been working on and they don't know They've been working so hard on that are frustrated by it. Yeah
00:36:56
Speaker
Support and um I want to say one other thing ah which you might get a kick out of um trying least in and And doing this show, you know the Being into music. Yeah quite a few episodes. I mean, I can't wait to kind of dive more more into them in my yeah 200 and 200 and 280 As we're recording right here, 286, 87. Well, congratulations. I mean, that's no small feat. and I mean, I've heard so much about podcasting and you know it's like, I don't want to say it's sort of like zines, it's democratizing anybody because anybody can start a podcast, right? um But how it's received or you know the audience is going to be you know niche or not, right? But I feel like one should do one or two things well, right? you can't You're not pizza, you can't please everybody, right?
00:37:48
Speaker
Yeah, yeah well Congratulations. That's a good and career accomplishment. That's a lot I could don't have the patience probably to do five of them let alone I mean produce them because it's a lot of work But that's that's that that's kind of you know, it's a deep interest in me You have to have you know a philosophers artists you have to have ah an obsessive curiosity sometimes a morbid curiosity some kind of dark curiosity and and to be um ah Just to be like fascinated by what people can do I'm a big sports guy too like nothing I'm like like jock guy or anything but like a lot of people when I'm talking intellectual stuff and I start talking about Baseball won't start talking about what the fuck's wrong with them like, you know, like come on. Yeah, but for me it's it's it all it all it all kind of fits together and thinking about I about ah what we're doing. Podcasts are per perseverance, right? And that's what I can say. There's, you know, these popular notions of podcasts out there, but he has one. Well, great. and You know, a lot of people have popped in. had The amount of people who create a podcast and maintain it over time, that's more of a testament in that we see podcasts that become popular over time, sometimes just just being pluckish about it.
00:39:07
Speaker
Well, then maybe they drop off too. I mean, it is a certain, I mean, you have to have that tenacity, right? Well, it is, it's hard to do. And there's a procrastination ball, but that tenacity to continue, a lot of people, I mean, I know for myself too, I'm so great at starting things, finishing it, you know, I'm just getting to a point of where I'm like, maybe done is better than perfect. Although what is, you know, perfection is like this moving target in my mind, right? But done is better than perfect. I just kind of tell myself that with assignments and things and, you know, deadlines and stuff, but nothing like a deadline to push you to you know, quickly ah rectify whatever within your yourself. Yeah. Well, for me, like ah some folks have no, where do you get all your gas? And like, how is it that like you do this almost like as an independent project? And I have helped my producer and editor, Peter Bauer, but the
00:39:54
Speaker
The whole bit of like pursuing and ah talking to and establishing relationships and recording comes just out of like um an extension of the way that I live. like My brain has been like this my whole life of like studying philosophy and literature when I was younger. and Being obsessive about art and playing an album 15 times a row and like being in a zone like all that type of stuff where It makes sense to me that I keep going So it isn't an extension is like oh i'm gonna think about philosophy today and art today i'm compulsively thinking about it from the time I was in diapers, so like my brain was going that way so I like it for me because I learned so much and I
00:40:38
Speaker
Am as fascinated by the questions I asked when I started asking them or not because they're unanswerable. My questions are bullshit. Like these questions are kind of like BS at the bottom. Why is there something rather than nothing? Yeah. I mean, that was not the one that really stymied me the most. I was kind of like.
00:40:54
Speaker
something rather than nothing. Like literally, what are we talking about? Physics? What are you talking about? Atoms? How am I perceiving this question? But I put, there's something rather than nothing because existence itself is an art, an endless process of making connections, finding patterns to create meaning. Something rather than nothing because nothingness itself couldn't bear its own emptiness.
00:41:18
Speaker
Where did that come from? I don't know. It was last night. i was like skip over Don't skip over. you You've had some profound words here. and and well i mean it It really got me just kind of it sort of like a piss me off at first that I couldn't easily answer it and that's not like the sort of talking to if I sort of know it all within me, but I just have to like categorize it in my brain. Do I need to compartmentalize it and get to it later when I have a moment to focus and fully like understand it? But then I'm like one of the world's best overthinkers you've ever met. I can say three out of the last four therapists said- That's why we're doing this episode, the both of us. We both- You can attest to that, yeah. Overthinking. Yeah, that's good. So it was that overthinking part where I'm like, just let that go for a moment. But that's all I got for that. So I'm like, okay.
00:42:02
Speaker
i thought and no One of the things is on on the question itself, and um you know for me, it's like almost like in my intellectual marketing, like because of the title of the show, I can do anything I want on the show. right like That's my that's my kind of like basic realization. Yeah, I love the title because you can before you read the social, the blurb, right the description of the art philosophy, um
Philosophical dimensions of art
00:42:27
Speaker
That can be anything. I mean, it definitely piqued my curiosity. I would are absurdist you know check it out exactly i check it out and or it can just be absolutely something totally serious. Like you'd be some, I don't know, investment banker with a brand new BMW or something taught, you know, it can be just, you know, anything. i want I've had people leaving on the framing of the question, even as properly framed. I'm not even quite sure it's even fundamentally properly framed because I've had guests say, and there's a history back behind this question because it's saying it's fundamentally improperly posed.
00:42:55
Speaker
the question is how is there something rather than nothing and that might tilt it more towards a physical mechanical ah type of answer but I've had people say like that really is that there is There's something too phenomenal. There's a thinginess to what's going on. So you have to ask how that is rather rather than why. So I think a question that can be that and ah annoying is a good antagonist.
00:43:25
Speaker
That's an annoying um a person in upperykety it's a It's compelling for sure. I definitely think it's compelling. um And it's also anything that really ah and so makes you question yourself. um Anything that just kind of puts a pause in the in the chatter, you know, which is what it did. like How could I answer this?" I'm like, well, I could not answer it too, but that wouldn't be sufficient for me. you know I was like, okay, what did I... um And I'm not saying you know it's right or wrong. it's everybody's I think it's everyone's unique answer. I don't think anyone's right and anyone's wrong. That's maybe what I'm going to say from what I...
00:43:59
Speaker
yeah that it Well, yeah, and then on the philosophers of questions, I mean, there's an idea which is fanciful and possibly true of being able to answer questions. And also on the other side is, and within philosophy of asking questions, asking questions, each question prompts another question is the thinking process and being humble about whether you know there's an answer. I'm a humble. I have hunches on all the questions I ask. I have better hunches on all the questions I have ah asked over five years. Much better hunches. You've been getting better hunches over the five years, right? Hunches, yeah. Hunches and in in in trends. and they like Even in types of artists or
00:44:42
Speaker
maybe characteristics or way of looking at the world. Like when I interview musical artists, because of their interview and media world, I think they expect like tons and tons of questions because they have the boom, boom, boom, boom, this track, that track, working with this person. And a lot of times when I get guests on my show, I say, it i you know, interviews are all different. This one has like four or five questions. I can ask a ton more or even less, but ah yeah I'm not asking, in you know, 20 seconds after each one of these, it sounds a little bit silly. You know, so it's like and kind of this cadence and what people expect of why somebody wants to talk to them or what's the ends. or Yeah, well said. It's like a cadence and rhythm. And I guess you find um a flow, which, um do you know that psychologist guy? I just want to butcher his name. It's just way too many constants. His last name is like this big, but it's Mihalyi, Mihalyi, cheek mentally cheekmently high
00:45:36
Speaker
And I believe he's Hungarian, if I'm going to butcher that. He's Hungarian or Czechoslovakian. ok um He's a psychologist who's written some amazing books on flow. His, I think, definitive tome is called Finding Flow. And what you were saying earlier about just, um you know, where you're visiting the museum and and just so you're finding your flow, right? It's what you're doing.
00:45:58
Speaker
when you lose all track of time. And I don't mean always in the ADHD way, like your card carrying member, but where you where you find that that flow, that goodness where um nothing else matters at the time and it's truly being in that moment.
00:46:12
Speaker
you know And that's why I think I do art for the creation ah of that process for me. It gets me out of, gets me out of my head, gets me out of all the the you know the chatter, the hell, the thinking thing. And the thing too, I wish people wouldn't worry so much about. I talk to people about art, so I really honestly don't know what I'm doing at all. And I've just been blessed to kind of meet all these people and connections on the internet. And like, you've met a guest through Floating World, right through a xenon floating world. So we're the xenon floating world, a floating world.
00:46:41
Speaker
um It doesn't have to be ah ah finished or this thing, you know, people I think put so much into kind of what they can get out of something, right? Like, like, I don't know, I spent two hours, so therefore I have blah, blah, blah, blah, blah to show for it, right? um It can be just the journey. Transactional. It's a transactional economy. thing exactly and it can be philosophy Philosophy queers all that stuff up. Question queers all that stuff up because the transaction is slowed. Why am I contacting you? What am I supposed to get on? I mean, there's an exchange there's an exchange of course, but it's like, I think in that capitalist mode, like you have to figure out my intentions. I have to figure out your intentions or we can be like, let's discuss these issues so I can like learn from you and you can learn about yourself or you can learn from me. I don't know.
00:47:31
Speaker
And that's what I wanted to learn with those questions. I had really thought of um like what, what would it mean you know, say like I'm audacious, like I'm the only one want to know, but I said, I think I asked fairly good questions. I've, you know, attuned myself with that over time of I feel like I'm asking better questions. Maybe a couple other people might want to know too, you know, like the nation, it's all about I think the journey as well as the destination, you know, the journey is um its own reward, I believe, you know, especially
Art as journey and destination
00:47:56
Speaker
with art. Like, you know, whether it's just a tangible thing or even just jot down something or, you know, um something you see on Instagram, you know, you create your algorithm to show you um more of what, you know, you're into. And I try to keep that really open, really flexible. um Yeah.
00:48:14
Speaker
try to see many different sides, even ones I especially don't agree with, you know, and try to think of like, you know, I i like, for example, just how polarized everything is in this country right now. I more than ever, I mean, I remember the first of God dating myself, here the first presidential election, I remember was Ronald Reagan and um Jimmy Carter, right? And yeah, same, same for yes, same for me.
00:48:36
Speaker
Yeah. so So, you know, bumbling around in kindergarten or wherever it was, was it preschool or kindergarten? A kindergarten, probably. And just how, um you know, ah it's like, okay, or I don't know, I'm voting for um whoever I'm voting for on Reagan. And then, oh, what's for dinner, sweetie, right? It wasn't it wasn't a thing, right? And you could take space with people that maybe, you you know, you disagreed with. And it wasn't this vehement, double downing with kind of this hate. But I see why everybody's angry. You know what I mean? I think everybody should be very, very angry.
00:49:05
Speaker
Yeah. With what's been on both sides and maybe people I've, you know, gone. There's an intensity. There's this intensity and people, you know, going against, I believe in my opinion, their best, against their best interests. And I think time will tell with that, but it's just going to affect everyone else. And I think while we're, um, you know, it's a class war, it's not,
00:49:25
Speaker
The actions of those above us, and I'm being like paranoid and woo, but the actions of those above us, you know um we won't notice them as much if we're just this infighting of you know F this, F that. ah you know whatever my My thing is the right way, you know the right way maybe for you, but who cares what other people do with themselves? Who cares what other people do? like yeah Lot of people are an army of one in their heads. I'm real Yeah, that will say one yeah yeah and that's a Bjork song, isn't it? Yeah, um no army. is Hey That's so long as of like the last couple days because for me Bjork is
00:50:03
Speaker
It's not a thing to refer to a certain time of my life. It's like yesterday, the week before today. And I was just ah listening to her description about, ah which I didn't realize she wrote it for a friend of hers that she wanted implore, implore, implore him along like a friend that she cared about, to implore him along. And I'm like,
00:50:27
Speaker
And with a song that becomes so popular popular and universal, heard the first thing I thought about, I said, what if what if somebody wrote a song about me? And that was a message to me. like Talk about reinforcement. like Almost like the power of the song is like, it's almost like a command from her. And anyways, love on Bjork too. Yeah, there's lots of, I mean, just the art too. i' Just everything she encompasses, like the multidisciplinary, you know. um but that creativity you know and a lot of people don't always agree with it as she gets i say avant-garde or whatever people said to me. I haven't followed her since Vespritine because it's just too avant-garde and too wet. She's incorporating sea animal noises into her. I mean she's always
00:51:12
Speaker
off on a on an and on an adventure. ah Rachel, I want to ask you something different. yeah um I missed the question, but I wanted to know about like the win. Did you see yourself as an artist at a particular time or moment or event or a way of feeling?
00:51:32
Speaker
No, not at all. and And I kind of have a thing to say about that. Like, Spike gets you everywhere with Spike can really motivate you along and it sort of became this this spiteful thing. I didn't really really do art. um I'll tell you this this little blurb about how, you know, impressions that are made upon you, you know, when you're a kid or whatever. When I was in 11th grade at Fairfax High School, I was told by the art teacher that the only way I would get a passing grade in their class was if I became their TA. I sort of got like, who says that to me? I mean, at that moment, though, you know, I was going through the whole teen angst, I was like on drugs, I was, you know, these things. And it just really affected me. um I had done this interview for this website called Canvas Rebel and I had like really some barebone moment to really go in there and and think about it and get to the the meat of the matter the heart of the matter of it and um it affected me for years. That was something that was like a
00:52:30
Speaker
I think I said in the interview, like a wand that just was ah ah waved across my life of this like rejection, not good enough thing, this impostor syndrome, because an 11th grade art teacher said that I suck basically. You know, I was going to say that, but I think he really wanted a teacher's assistant is what he wanted. And maybe, you know, I was the lowest common denominator in that class compared to My classmates, there was this gal that sat next to me and she could do any kind of still life. You can imagine in like two hours, oils, oils and crooks, just on oils on a large canvas. I'm like, what in the hell do you do that? i know Again, I'm in this zine DIY and I can do whatever I want, right? Who's going to stop me? But that stopped me for a very long time and it's only in the last.
00:53:11
Speaker
two to three years, um that I was like, hey, like, I can do that. And I have all these different influences. And the one that kind of pisses me off that like rubbed on me that I was like, I guess, um is Patrick Nagel. And the reason why is because my aunt had a bunch of his pieces after my mom had passed away. I lived with my aunt and uncle um uprooted from Hollywood to Culver City. It's like this wannabe little like,
00:53:36
Speaker
you know, Mayberry in the middle of LA. And, um you know, it was snotty. Everybody had known everybody from zero to like eighth grade, right? And then there there's me, this misfit coming from like West Hollywood. um Their parents wouldn't let me play with them because I knew what a homosexual was like, just talk about goodness what weirdness in the middle of the city. So um ah the art, you know, just came from all of these different things. And ah Nagel, she had Nagel, so I think it imprinted on me. You know what I mean? I've seen all the, you know, everybody's seen, like, Betty Page, all the, you know, all the pinup artists. And I have a signed book to me and my parents from 1979 from Alberto Vargas, one of his books. And it's one of the most prized things that I own. It's a
00:54:20
Speaker
friend of my dad's who worked for him and I forgot it was like a publicist it was like something like that but this is a really amazing book in my collection of course when you're four and five at the time you know but the real other podcast of all the inappropriate movies I watched and the the the like so why do you look Why do you like pin-up? Why does it been so like, what do you like about pin-up? I am a dwarf pin-up. It evokes, I feel like they're their own super heroines. You know, a lot of people say it can be like sexist, misogynist, whatever. No, I feel like, for example, like, ah okay, let's say Eric Stanton, right, of women as these powerful, sensual,
00:54:59
Speaker
um you know, and I'm not limiting feminism to that, you know, if everybody has their own definition of it. But these are this first like archetype of, um you know, these are women that command a room. And if maybe I can be like that, I talk about my zines, if you know, I can embody, pretend to be, ah you know, this superhero version of myself, a little bit of myself in each of these things that I draw in a way, you know, so you kind of know yourself, but I'm like, who's gonna stop me, you know, like,
00:55:25
Speaker
I guess Frida had said that you're your own muse, right? um Because you know yourself well, hopefully you know yourself well. But it was a crash course, I'm really getting to know myself well. And in two to three years ago, I had just an absurd string of events where I thought certain things were certain way, they were not. And I had the rug pulled out from under me with just yeah relationships and and things. And that first one came out, it just like was a purging of stuff. and um I know so many artists, and we talk about these real artists. But what is like a real artist? right If people are moved or you know you bought my zine, for example, right and you've resonated with the questions and some things that I'm on this podcast, right who's to say that that's not art? you know It's not always a monetary exchange. It's if you feel something.
00:56:11
Speaker
you know And hopefully it's it's better attention than negative attention. I know some people really thrive on that negative attention. you know Any attention is still attention, right? But I'm not trying to see something um ah provocative to get a ah any reaction out of anybody. you know i don't dwellillen that negativity I mean, I'm my own pessimist, I suppose, but it's that whole, um, one other thing I want to think about this too real quick, the imposter syndrome thing, right? yeah So I've had this whole thoughts all about this. And one of the things that I've done, I went to one of these, I'll use it with the air quotes, coding bootcamp. I went to one of these coding boot camps in Oakland, one of the area, like, I can't beat them. If I can't beat them, join them. God damn it. Right. This is thing. Contract right before that. And, um,
00:56:55
Speaker
I'm an all right designer. I can't make the front end, the engineering to save my life. Like it's just a whole thing, but I can make it look beautiful if it functions 90% fine, but it looks beautiful while you're doing it. Right. That's kind of my, yeah so I wasn't the developer of that, but we talked about imposter syndrome a lot. Like in terms of that LinkedIn thing, we would tour LinkedIn, Twitter or Twatter. I don't call it. I refuse to call it like's probably known as Twatter. Right. So that we finally got to the point of episode where it's Twatter.
00:57:24
Speaker
It's water. Yeah, there you go. This is the deep end. But with all those things, I got to meet a lot of people in those spaces, you know, these real intricate, brilliant minds and like your Ray Kurzweil's and people like that. um So there's this imposter syndrome, right? um You're worried you don't measure up, you suck, whatever. But you know what? Not everybody has to know everything and some people do suck though, that's the thing. And I was that person that sucked, right? Like I knew what a regular expression was, for example, could I implement it? Most likely not. I knew relatively what it was and I was okay with that though. I'm like somebody has to suck at this because not everybody can be good at all the things, you know? And that was why that was just such a whole other um ah
00:58:01
Speaker
I made it through that, but I was not cut out to be a developer in the Bay Area. It's just so well cutthroat and all that. But that just um was not the interest, but I feel like it fuels my art too, like that, which I am not. you know And I'm not knocking anybody who has have tons of tech friends and you you know somebody's got to make the the big money, I guess, and do the right thing. Share the wealth. so make up Somebody's got to buy our art, right? Someone's got to buy our art. No pictures of our futures right the starving artist whatever but i think of that imposter serum all the time of. um People suck and that's okay you know but i think if i'm worrying enough about sucking maybe i don't suck right kinda like bad taste and good taste isn't what you have to be intelligent to know that you have bad taste.
00:58:45
Speaker
you know Yeah, you have to see it from some level of distance. Right, from some level of distance and you know it's some bad taste because you have that that knowledge of what it isn't or, you know, tongue in cheek, I
Cultural influences in art
00:58:56
Speaker
guess. I don't know. What do I know? know what i needed What I needed to ask you is to make sure we don't forget to to to do this is Um about where to find your work, but first I wanted to say is I almost got to we almost got to chat Uh a few days ago. You're in portland and you had a pop-up and I was like, oh my gosh i could I wish I could really get over there now. I happen to be at dante's inferno. Uh Yeah, that sounded like fun though, too. So you had that all planned out. I was at the leftover crack show, the punk show, ah which is an L.A. ah band. They were phenomenal. so Systemic Collapse, ah portland yeah a based band as well. So had a real, real fun time, almost caught up to but to you and did what you have. But where the heck do people go? Because like you got cool stuff, you got like
00:59:49
Speaker
cool designs. You got lots of art. So how do we do it? I'm really terrible at promoting myself. I mean, I guess every artist is trying to help trying to help you here. I appreciate that. That's the business. And they're just like, what, like, oh, if you want these things, I always forget to tell people that my art is for sale, like the originals. I've been just kind of snotty of like, I don't want to give these things away. They're like, pardon me. But um I've got to take pictures. I'll put on my website the pictures of just what I have that is just thing. I've got like probably a couple hundred of these things that are like, and I have a special section. I do an art market pretty much once a month. It's at the Barebones Cafe and Bar. It's i basically, I think it's 28th in Belmont.
01:00:30
Speaker
And I've been doing that one with a weird random connection. I met the guy that puts that on at Baby Doll Pizza. one of my I was doing my very expensive year of being a vegan. They were the quickest place I could get a piece of pizza. And he just kind of was like, talking to me. And I'm like, this guy like talking to me, like hitting me. Who is this guy? He worked there. And he was like, no, no, I do this art mark in seven here. Follow me on Instagram. And it was the first time I used i was excited to see a QR code because it made me immediately follow his Instagram. So yay on that QR code.
01:01:00
Speaker
yeah But he's great and puts on this art market, just really a labor of love is where we brought me and some people together. That's once a month, um usually Mondays. It's usually the first or the second Monday of the month here in Portland. And then you can get any of my stuff on my website. It's racheltyrell.com. But really Instagram is my jam. I've like made Instagram. I feel like I use it differently. others there's ah That's another alarm. I always have alarms for the ADHD thing. so hey yeah my other I about three or four a day myself. Right. So you've got to do that. um So you can buy my stuff on my website, but Instagram, I've made it this community of um people and opportunities I would have never had had I not um just sort of curated it and really um
01:01:47
Speaker
honed in on the stuff that I want to see and it's not in this meticulous like political bubble or something I suppose there's a little bit of that but just creative people that make me think and I have had opportunities to travel I've met some amazing people they're not um without instagram it would have never happened you know so I use instagram differently so I always say find me on instagram um Yeah, I'm always like sharing stuff and I'm the meme queen and I make memes and just it's if you can't laugh um You know, you're gonna cry, right? So I'm definitely of I'm definitely of of that And there's something of philosophy to for me that the line is completely thin between comedy and philosophy. I mean it is
01:02:32
Speaker
It is so thin because like even in like that type of stuff with these questions, right like the the strangeness or the curiosity where I'm a city kid from Rhode Island and I ended up getting a scholarship to study a master's of philosophy at Marquette University, Jesuit co you know jesuit University in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. like I don't know how the fuck does that happen? right yeah i'm not gowake Yeah, it's interesting. yeah You like Milwaukee?
Art and personal identity
01:03:00
Speaker
It's alright. A brief blurb through it, you know, a blip through it, you know, from um visiting a friend over there and um just, a yeah, there's, there's art in everything really, there is, there's art in everything and I just feel like I've been you know blessed to be able to kind of get out of Los Angeles. I mean, I feel like I'm really through and through. I'll eventually get back there. But, you know, everything costs $18, no matter what it is now down there. I was just there for the LAZ investment. You notice that? Everything? Jeez. It's, you know, your existence. Like, I was just joking to your friends. I'm like, it's too expensive to live right now. It's too expensive. to Those calculations. How do I live today? Yeah, yeah. No, absolutely. It was just um even for you and make these choices of what
01:03:49
Speaker
you know, you're you're into, but I'm really just blessed to have all these connections I've made, you know, through Instagram, through other other things. But mainly Instagram, these art markets, I meet and collaborate with different artists. um People are in my art for a variety of different reasons. I use it as collages. I have a famous section in my um in the art market. They're called $5 fuck up. So I have these original pieces of art and I do some oddball sizes. Like I was doing six prices on Bristol for a while, but I just kind of these oddball sizes, depending on whatever paper is available, right? I'm just kind of like, they're, they're too good to throw away, but I don't want to see them anymore. Get them out of my face. So those my $5 fuck up pile. So I'm getting quite a plentiful $5 fuck up pile that I need people to relieve me of. So $5 fuck up pile. Jump in and out now. Cause in a couple of years it'll be a $10 fuck up pile.
01:04:39
Speaker
1199 with so ah ah Inflation right or whatever. of it just Let me then let me ask you a random question or two before we ah pop off here I Found that an art store one time never saw it before I didn't know nothing about it sue me ink and I started using I was love I'd love doing it I know you use that tell me about sue me ink and your use of it let me ink just um gives me the blackest blacks that are in my brain, right so um I've gotten a lot better with making the pencil marks not look like pencil marks and then just Sharpie because it's sort of a spite thing in a way. I've known a lot of people who've done Sharpies and kind of thought they had patents on Sharpies, neon Sharpies, whatever. um It was just a way to kind of do it. And I knew I was kind of an artist because I remember what this person had said to me. You'll know because you know I was like, how do you not smell the Sharpie when you just don't smell it anymore? and
01:05:28
Speaker
yeah Early into it, I stopped smelling strong smell milling the Sharpies. I'm like, oh, does this mean I've arrived here with the Sharpie thing? Okay, fine. But Sumi is one of my best friends, got this for me for Christmas last year. um And I have India ink too. And Sumi, it's, it's faster in a way with ah how you use it and how it dries. And I've been, I don't know what I'm doing. So I've been doing this on all kinds of paper. I'm getting to getting different results. um I've done it with some watercolors, which is kind of anathema. You probably shouldn't do that. I was trying to make this portrait of Roy Batty you know from Blade Runner with Sumi and watercolors with mixed results. I should just probably dig it up and I'll put in a couple pictures of it on my Instagram or whatever. but
01:06:10
Speaker
You work with it with, I mean, you can dilute it too, but I like just going straight with it and going for it. I have these brushes another friend gave me. um He was in Taiwan. There are those little paint brushes. you can they're They're a brush, but you can put the ink inside of it.
01:06:26
Speaker
And I've had some mixed results with that because you can't always control the tip of it. So it's like on the pressure, it says you're pushing it down and you're squeezing it. You can have it like explode, which is its own cool thing with the big no explodes, you know, it's kind of cool. um But it can be super messy. And I've not been known to have the most traditional, um clean artists.
01:06:50
Speaker
So hello it' flying miss that's what I liked about I uh, I became this like one of those type of things is I started to like ah paint and develop some of those pieces was just to see what actually like the physical what they did like how they bounced off or how they splashed and Yeah, I actually have it um on the nightstand next to me here. And I just kind of put it next to me in my line of sight to remember to use it. But, you know, you go in spurts with it, but I'm just like, try it out. You know, I like India Inc as well.
01:07:20
Speaker
um sue me it's just black you know it's like blacker than my heart it's blacker than my eye i don't know i don't know it's a wonderful like it's tough to describe the resplendency of it but at least for me and my sensitivity ble thats great lot as as a black color like yeah resplendency is definitely great and it's affordable i really feel like it's affordable what you get it lasts like forever i mean i have like way more than use, ah ah this feels probably like less than a third left, and this is over a year. Now I don't work with it weekly, I'd say i I'll do it on a monthly basis, but it's just whatever's at hand with, you know, with what I'm doing eventually, I want to migrate and do ah crazy black velvet paintings.
01:08:02
Speaker
Like I'm trying to work with neon and stuff. I want to make some of my art onto black, uh, black velvet giant, like giant. And I'm trying to convince some friends, let me go paint one of your walls in your house just for practice and for scale. Cause like, I don't know what I'm doing. I mean, this is like art porn at this point. It's just like explosion, just wonderful.
01:08:21
Speaker
I love it. I mean, you get, you know, I kind of know what I want to see. And it was sort of the other part about doing art was I didn't see what I saw in my head. And maybe that's a grandiose thing of like, should people see what I see in my head? Maybe not most of the time, quite honestly, but I have these things in my head. Not all images are your own. You don't have to believe them all. Yeah. And the influences and things in my head. I was like, okay, no one's doing this thing. And I'm not thinking of doing the thing to get attention like,
01:08:48
Speaker
making something in a different medium that isn't traditionally used just to see what happens. Now, some people do that with great aplomb and grace and all of that. um I just feel like, you know, hey, ah it's my
Leaving an imprint with art
01:09:00
Speaker
spin on it. And if it amuses me, that's great. You know what and I mean? And I've been amusing myself with my art as I've gone along. And some people like it here and there too. So I'm like, okay, fine. But, you know, it's kind of audacious to think like, you know,
01:09:12
Speaker
um my My imprint on the world is going to whatever. But you do, I guess, have to think about your legacy, right? I guess, right? And if it's going to be one, I mean, I don't know, I've done a few things. And if this is something that resonates with people, do it. You know, just go out there and do it. Who's going to stop you, you know?
Zines and their cultural significance
01:09:29
Speaker
Yeah, and there's a sensitivity I think nowadays and maybe like even just dropping back to the basic like pieces of art and zines and stuff, the tactile and tangible and accessible like and the culture-bearing pieces of it. um just it You can do it, right? And that that DIY bit, and I think one of the most fascinating histories I found out being the East Coast originally, but out here in Pacific Northwest, which predated my time out here, be um kind of like the growth in zines and riot girl culture. yeah and Definitely. Kathy Acker, the writer, like i I'm obsessed with Kathy Acker, the punk writer.
01:10:14
Speaker
and um just kind of hearing her interaction in Washington state Pacific Northwest and just seeing zine riot girl culture like gritty inks all this type of stuff it feels so Pacific Northwest and I think that's part of it too with zines have been all around but yeah There's something about this particularity of the pack and WZ really captures me.
Zine history and librarians
01:10:39
Speaker
Zines and the zine historians and like the zine librarians, there's tons of zine libraries out of the world. There's the Glasgow, there's all over the world. um And they are really kind of, you know, a screw library of Congress kind of thing. These are these historians, you know, and um I feel like, I mean, who has an obligation to scan them all, but I really feel like it would just um
01:10:59
Speaker
ah show the rich history of this, this fertile ground of it when it wasn't, I don't think zines are a parody of themselves just yet, but where they're a little bit too knowing, a little bit too self-aggrandizing, you know what I mean? They're a little bit, you know, they can be that way. So I feel like once I feel like that's happened, maybe I'll step back from it. but um These historians you know that have that have meticulously cared for these things like, for example, great local resource here in Portland is the Independent Publishing Resource Center. and I know my school PSU has a Resograph lab. I've been meaning to go, but just life and things and circumstances. and let's read the graph
01:11:38
Speaker
So there's all these wonderful resources here locally, but they also have a zine library, and you can make an appointment.
Curating and organizing zines
01:11:43
Speaker
um So my zines are there, and no not that I'm biased, whatever, but there's an amazing wealth of just thousands of these zines, and they um had a call out for ah curation. They need some people to help like categorize them and organize them in their space, because they have so many thousands. And this is, I know, the world over Chicago.
01:12:01
Speaker
um Namely the big cities they have their version I think of their riot girl things and I think it'd be great to just kind of pull all this like a world zine library I mean, that's my dream well and one of the things as far as communications for me and haven't like implemented it so much directly in my work is kind of like the populist elements
Zines in storytelling
01:12:21
Speaker
of it, right? So like I working in the labor movement or working in movements and how do you tell an updated quick story when it needs to be told an entertaining way accessible way like people saying what's going on and then you could see something drawing out or written out or collage to tell you what's going on and photos and stuff like that there's a piece to the to the maybe it's a the ephemeral or the temporary aspect of it you know there
01:12:45
Speaker
Um, but there's something about circulation and popular consumption that for me, you know, really appeals to me and stuff that's on a paper, the recent graph or, you know, right. Cause everything, you know, what really, um, you know, digital, it feels like now, um, in text action yeah snail mail is like an antiquated, you know, art form. It's a thing. So I brought digital with my, uh,
Digital vs. analog in art
01:13:12
Speaker
zines. Like I always felt like, um,
01:13:14
Speaker
I've played around in Procreate on the iPad and stuff. I have a bunch of friends who won't do, I mean, wondrous, meticulous, beautiful things with Procreate. But I always felt like my background I always felt like is kind of not cheating because you can buy all those presets. Like people that, you know, to do comics, ah for example, they have all those those presets and the brushes and the thing and you can make it just instantly look like, poof, insert, whichever favorite cartoonist, you know.
01:13:38
Speaker
Um, make it look like that. I feel like that's sort of not cheating, but I feel like analog, you know, I just want it tactile in my hands. And then what I do is when I write my stuff, I type it out. Um, and then I kind of, ah depending on what I'm doing, I do a Photoshop or Canva when I kind of fuse it all together and make it, um, still making it hopefully organic, but just the way my brain works and, you know, my.
01:13:59
Speaker
writing is pretty terrible. I don't want to cut out like ransom note style, although I know people that do wonderful zines with that too, you know, and that like ransom style, the cut up, you know, the cut up kind of was at Burroughs, but I think it was even before before Burroughs, it was Brian Gyson, who did it and William Burroughs piggybacked on him with that and, you know, wrote Exterminator and Junkie and these novels or whatever, just anything that breaks it
Inspiration behind a zine series
01:14:19
Speaker
up. And then you later on, oh, Genesis Pureage.
01:14:21
Speaker
You know, all that. So, oh, and by the way, real quick, so, so I belong to the right. So you were asking about that. So that is the title of a song from Chris and Cosey, who were in Throbbing Gristle, later becoming Chris and Cosey. They were husband husband and wife. They were part of Throbbing Gristle with Genesis Peorge and ah Peter Sleazy, Richardson's lesson. Yeah. um So they have a song that kept ah popping up, I have various playlists, you know but this song, this I Belong to Me, it was coming up repeatedly when I was drawing. It was like is kind of this uncanny thing. but By like the seventh the time, I was like, okay, like what the heck is this? and These aren't like three or four play you know song playlists. These are rich, robust variety of encompassing genres and all that. um so The song kept popping up and I was like,
01:15:09
Speaker
That's it, right? who Do I
Zine series on Los Angeles and addiction
01:15:11
Speaker
belong to anybody? I belong to me. I belong to me. So then the song title and just the song in my head. So every moment I was speaking those zines. And that's an ongoing series. That's my first one. But I feel like I'm only going to do it when I'm absolutely compelled to do it, not because I have to do it. you know And I have two other zine series. And I have one on l LA. It's called the lost Los Angeles Chronicles. So it's like l LA my way.
01:15:32
Speaker
I saw that on your website. I have one out, and it was well received at the LA Zine Fest, and it's been well received in other places too. And then I have one about addiction called Anywhere Out of the World, and that's a Dead Can Dance song, actually. Dead Can Dance. Yeah, it's a Dead Can Dance song. So I've written one about that with addiction, because that's the field I've been working in. Maybe I'll still do some therapy with it. But I'm thinking more toward policy changes. You know, I don't want to be a political science major by any means, no, but it's got to start above us, you know, especially in Oregon and other places that aren't doing so well with mental health, you know, yeah, somebody's got to do something, somebody's got to advocate and change
Vulnerability in art
01:16:13
Speaker
the policies. And I have ideas for policies, I really do. And I'm like, Oh, God, great.
01:16:16
Speaker
great, no, I don't want to have ideas for policies, you know, like what you were talking about earlier, making changes, you know, labor changes, um just looking accountability, that's what I want to see is accountability with it. And I feel like I can help people be accountable, whether that's you know i don't I don't know. yeah I know. I think there's this incredible vulnerability ah that you you have, you know and i but I belong to me. and um you know It's a mix because even just talking about um
01:16:50
Speaker
ah the beautiful illustrations and what they are of you and photography. I mean, you're in there and and and um just striking ah images and in the use of the ink and it's a beautiful and intense zine, right?
Humor and cultural icons
01:17:09
Speaker
Because it's a zine, it doesn't mean it's not those things. are not and My head, like you're not supposed to talk about it that way. But it's striking and personal in in that way. And I think when we talk in mental health, I can say for myself, ah for so for myself you know
01:17:24
Speaker
sober from alcohol, 15 years. Yeah, yeah you know that that was my theme and that was gonna kill me and and then I have this time with it. But there was something around my survival where I had to be personal,
01:17:38
Speaker
about what was going on with me that other people I was around had to be personal about. Do you want to hear how fucked up, how I fucked things up this morning and drop it out and like to move through it?
01:17:50
Speaker
So I'm comfortable around that, and I just applaud your courage in general, because it's tough to do. I've done things on the show where it's like I'm kind of experimenting a little bit, and I'm like, like I don't want to look that way. Like, I'm not precious or anything, but I'm like, I don't want to sound weird or something. Yeah, that's the part about that vulnerability bit. I'm not naming names or anything, but there have been people in different scenes um who are kind of like, you don't want to ever reveal. Like, for example, the body dysmorphia and things like that, you don't ever want to talk about.
01:18:17
Speaker
anything like that and um you know what was that movie and i can't remember it's montgomery cliff carry grant one of these guys or is it jimmy stewart one of them and they then they say mental illness doesn't run in my family a gallops ah like mine i think does the fox trot or the charleston in mind geez louise so I love that your actor list that you're thinking through started with Montgomery Clift. I think that's wonderful. I don't know if it was Montgomery Clift. But it is. It's one of them. And I'm like, God damn it, how come I can't remember?
Artistic vulnerability and self-help
01:18:45
Speaker
You know, it's like in print in a moment of a thing, you know, watching all sorts of stuff from I've borrowed a bit from everybody I've kind of grown up with and things, you know, have that skill set of like, what they collected, for example, in swap meet and selling things. You know, I have that expertise of theirs that I've kind of observed, you know, even though like certain fine China and different collectibles, samurai swords aren't my thing, I know kind of what to look for if I see it, I guess. So it's kind of like, I feel like a curator of stuff like that. But yeah, it's a vulnerability piece of being told that maybe I shouldn't
01:19:17
Speaker
you know, I shouldn't or I'm too this or not enough of this or whatever. I'm tired of hearing that you know, I'm too much. You're not enough. thats of thing I'm not too much. You're not enough. So yeah it's I mean, I don't know. Yeah, it's a Cal it's a calibration. You have to remember what's ego and not to you know what I mean? Where you like it.
01:19:36
Speaker
Can't take anything personally. What is that? I've been rereading. Um, it's the basic, you know, the four agreements it's uh, yeah, yeah, going through that and I have it just like right there and forget his uh, uh, God, what is his name again? And we all know it and all that. It's like, it's a name and I'm just, it's a shame that I'm not agreement. What is wrong with me? I don't remember what I've had for a few days ago. So Hey, Rachel, we covered a lot of material. We did, but the one is be true to your word. That's what I'm thinking about. Be true to your word, start with that, and then, you know.
Podcast reflections and promotions
01:20:09
Speaker
Be true to your worth. Yeah. Rachel, I got to say it's been a real pleasure to be able to chat with you on the Something Rather than Nothing podcast. Yeah, likewise. We went over a little bit. It worked out though. It was fine.
01:20:25
Speaker
Oh, and um I would say, too, looking forward to trying to find you in the in in the city there somewhere. wearing Yeah, I promise. I promise I'll be better about updating like the events on my website and stuff. I just like get, you know, it's bombulated. I'm like just Keep in mind that, you know, there's a randomness to it where I missed you by 20 minutes on a late post on a Wednesday. You never know. Never know in Portland somebody running by and needs to get some Christmas gifts or New Year gifts or Rachel Terrell art. And, you know, ah you never know what might happen. So.
01:21:02
Speaker
Yeah, so get me up on um Instagram. That's probably the best, ah the best way to reach me. I probably spend the most like, I guess time on there. I've curated it. And it's just that was the whole accidental thing that could be another podcast. But yeah, no, this is gross is great. Thank you. I was really nervous, especially kind of messing up. I thought it was yesterday. I'm like, Oh, my God. And then last minute, I asked one of my really Great successful artist friends. Oh my god. I'm gonna be on this podcast in an hour. What advice do you have? And he gave me some stellar advice He was kind of like keep your background the same don't walk around with it for the audio Make sure you have you know the stable, you know internet connection and stuff. So this was some great advice. That's what artists do like i get to thank him i'm like I've never played bass guitar. I got it in three weeks. What do I do? Oh, that's what I've done too. I have a base I've had for 12 years and I pick it up once in a while and I'm like, okay, you know, tinker with it and you know, fine, but you don't but performers, right? There's a, you know, so if somebody calls showtime, you know, artists a lot of times have to be ready for the show. Do you know how to do this? Of course I do. And let's go right fake it till you make it. No, totally fake it till you make it. I appreciate that very much. But, um, yeah, so this is great. Um, closing off ah the year here. I'm excited. of My first podcast. Yay.
01:22:08
Speaker
Awesome. so happy no Thank you. Happy 2025.
Supporting local comics culture
01:22:13
Speaker
I'm going to be picking up ah some more of your art um heading into Portland. um Super fun chat with you. Everybody truly check out ah Rachel. um I'm doing a special thing too. so Definitely follow me on Instagram. I'll drop the link. I'm going to do it like right before Christmas. I'm considering I'm just going to put up my zines.
01:22:35
Speaker
ah For you to read probably I keep it for the week. I don't know I'll put up like a coffee thing So send me a buck or two or not or print it out or whatever if you want to do I might do that with my scenes I just thought about it. I'm like making it, you know accessible anywhere However, you know my web development stuff I can do that. I can you know, make it it's it's it's it's worth it's worth the effort on beautiful pieces of art and there's also you know floating world comics is as ah an esteemed curious beautiful publisher purveyor of of printed goods. You know, you're on their shelves and that's that's particular. There's a particular, ah so. Yeah, no, it was amazing. That was such a thing. I was like, wait, what is this really like happening? I had to take a picture like in disbelief, like really? This is really happening. Okay. Okay. This is good.
01:23:25
Speaker
Not that you've arrived, but it was great that we have these resources. We have these wonderful places in in Portland and beyond, too. There are so many great places. There's books with pictures, too. and you know um and Books with pictures.
Supporting independent artists
01:23:37
Speaker
Great comic. I just want to end the final thing on that, too, just so it's some of those places moving out here. I had no idea the comics culture. you know I guess I was out in Wisconsin for a few years, but there's comic shops out there. There's comics culture everywhere. But when I got out here, I was like,
01:23:54
Speaker
Holy shit, the artists live here. Like they create. Oh, it's it's gnarly and you know, I'm like Dark Horse and all the other. Yeah. hell yeah Yeah. It's amazing. You're just like, okay, what? Like great. It's just in that resource, you know, and you can't take it for granted either though, because you know, with the times that we're in, I mean, everybody needs the support, all the support they can get from the little guys with the DIY to, you know, the, um, the publishers, you know, the more traditional publishers. I think everybody's hurting a little bit.
01:24:20
Speaker
you know, with things so it's important to support. Buy your zines, support your indies, get your- Buy my five dollar fuck-ups, please relieve me of them because I'm tired of seeing them. Get your five dollar fuck-ups before they place you in it. Before their ten dollar fuck-ups. Because they have to be, just to get by. Plenty to find there, Rachel. Thank you so much. Best of wishes right up ahead, 2025, this episode will be coming out right around that time. Yeah, you do. And I wish you a happy 2025, which seems like a- and keep in touch and stuff. Thanks, Rachel. All right. Thanks. Take care. Bye now. Bye. This is something rather than nothing.
01:25:13
Speaker
And listeners, to stay connected with us in our guests, visit something rather than nothing.com. Join our mailing list for exclusive updates and access to guest created art. If you enjoyed this episode or any episode, please like, subscribe, and leave a review on your podcast platform. People really read that shit.
01:25:34
Speaker
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01:26:02
Speaker
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