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Squirm! with Kels & Tess & Kenny & Jenny
555 Plays13 days ago
Enjoy a lovely and vulnerable chat with Kels & Tess. Host Kenny and Co-host Jenny explore health, excitement, sex, p*rn and the powerful things that move us.
Kels is a producer, businesswoman, and sex and relationship enthusiast. She never underestimates the power of a good story or a good spreadsheet.
In tandem with a career in project management and marketing, she has been writing, directing, producing and performing for film and theater since 2013.
Kels believes the core of a good business, production, or sexual experience is the same: being attuned to other people and aware of their sweet spots. She’s committed to restoring education to its natural state — enticing.
Tess uses her experience as a researcher to establish a data-driven foundation for Squirm. She holds a master's degree from the University of Amsterdam where she researched the intersection of sex education and pornography.
Tess has organized events featuring sex educators, filmmakers, and academics with the goals of celebrating erotic culture and destigmatizing talking about sex. She is a feminist erotic film enthusiast and is always looking ahead to the next indie film festival.
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Transcript
Introductions and Backgrounds
00:00:23
Speaker
some happy voices. We're chatting here. I have ah guests guest host the Jenny Peterson, my partner. And she also is the zine editor for the yeah for the podcast. Don't want to forget her many roles, of course.
00:00:38
Speaker
ah helping me keep sane while doing the podcast. Really excited to introduce Kels, co-founder, pronouns she, her. Kels is a producer, businesswoman, and sex and relationship enthusiast. She never underestimates part of a good story or a good spreadsheet. In tandem with the career in project management and marketing, she has been writing, directing, producing, and performing for film and theater since 2013.
00:01:07
Speaker
Kelz believes the core of a good business, production, or sexual experience is the same, being attuned to other people and aware of their sweet spots. She's committed to restoring education to its natural state, enticing. Kelz, welcome to the podcast. You never had that read aloud to me before. Hi.
00:01:30
Speaker
I like that last part, education to its natural state enticing, right? Why not? they thank Thinking's very unsexy in 2024. Let's make it. That's a great t-shirt. Make thinking sexy again. Let's do it.
00:01:46
Speaker
got Uh, we gotta, we gotta to introduce, uh, before we do some more marketing of our, of our product ideas, uh, we have, uh, Tess, a co-founder of she and she her pronouns.
Squirm Podcast and Sex Education
00:02:01
Speaker
And of course we're talking about, uh, Squirm, uh, the project, the Kels and Tess. Tess uses her experience as a researcher to establish a data-driven foundation for Squirm.
00:02:12
Speaker
She holds a master's degree from the University of am Amsterdam where she researched the intersection of sex education in pornography. Tess has organized events featuring sex educators, filmmakers, and academics with the goals of celebrating erotic culture and de-stigmatizing talking about sex. She is a feminist erotic film enthusiast, is always looking ahead to the next indie film festival. Tess, welcome to the show. Thank you, so happy to be here.
00:02:41
Speaker
Yeah. Wow. um I think those bios generate 2.5 million questions ah of the listeners and in in in me, ah but ah really love it. And I just want to say, um just so folks know, um just our our connection. um ah back ah Back a few months ago, i ah ah the ah producer and editor of the show, ah Peter Bauer, ah met Kels and Tess and um was really excited to bring them on the show. So this has been a long ah coming episode. And what's been really fascinating in the background is like Jenny and I here felt like kind of connected to the work that you're doing because you're doing um you're doing a new things. You've done a show.
00:03:31
Speaker
Um, which once I bring up we're probably gonna have to start talking about it. All right, let's just do it horners horners was horners was was a was a podcast, uh with with squirm and boom integrated, um fantastic podcast like funny as hell ah um makes you feel squirmy like you know like are we supposed to be talking about this but um just talking about porn and one of them there's a lot of provocative pieces in it but like intellectually provocative one of the pieces in your description for the show that
00:04:09
Speaker
that that points to facto sex education nowadays and underlying that sense it is what is this thing of what's going on it. So tell us about porn nerds. Why did you feel like what what's what's the project about? or what did well Where did it come from?
00:04:30
Speaker
Well, I think when I, when we first started squirm, I had just come from Amsterdam where I was doing my master's and a lot of my time was spent thinking about porn and researching porn and talking to porn and hanging out with people in porn. So it was definitely fresh for me. And it's kind of my like the bread and butter that I think I bring to squirm or one of the things that I bring to squirm and if like yeah, kind of worked Kelsey into as well. So that was sort of the the topic background was me coming from grad school with like all of this sort of porn enthusiasm and wanting to do something with it. So we were we got an opportunity to do a podcast to pitch a podcast mini series with boom, our co producers. And they were like, what do you want to do it on? And my first thought was, why don't we do porn and
00:05:19
Speaker
Kelso's like, all right, let's do it. So we wrote the outline and we just yeah kind of ran ran with it from there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's part of why this interview has been such a long time coming. and Initially we were like, okay, this is going to be like a three month project. And then it just really, it's such a rich topic. There's so much to be able to dig into. And I think it touches so many people's lives and their kind of formation of sexuality that it feels a little impossible not to talk about porn when you're talking about sex.
00:05:51
Speaker
Um, which is kind of the like umbrella of squirms ethos is just having more conversations about sexuality and It seemed to be the thing that just kept popping back up and up and up when we're hearing about people's sexuality and how it's kind of developed Absolutely. I think uh when I think back to my my adolescent years uh compared to now, I mean i'm gonna age myself but i didn't I don't even feel like I had access to porn until I was well into my late teens, early 20s, unless I really sought it out and had a way to pay for it. And now you know our kids, our younger kids have it in the palm of their hands anytime they want.
00:06:35
Speaker
um So just to just to think of that difference and how how different maybe even my development would have been ah Having having that such easy access um compared to kids now um Because sex has always been one of my favorite topics like yeah long as I can remember so all all of that and it's it's smart it's a heck of it's a heck of a podcast now speaking of the smart bit like All right. I'm not trying to be smarmy, but I'm trying to be the smarmy listener. How the heck how do you study sex or get PhDs in sex? like well like what What is that? like tell Tell us what that is. Well, I mean, I think you've been taken in a lot of different ways. I feel like studying porn, a lot of people are like, you're making that up. You don't get like a master's degree in porn. like You're just that weirdo who watches porn at the library you know and says you're studying at the library.
00:07:31
Speaker
four in my life but yeah yeah only in the ah only in the office with my screen facing away from the glass doors. But no, I mean, I think there's so much that you can study about it. There's like there's theories of sexuality. There's like histories of how we as a society have talked about sex, how like sex has informed our culture and you know people who are scholars on the topic of like gender and sexuality and how we how we learn about these things. And I think for me, I went into it with
00:08:05
Speaker
knowing that porn was something I wanted to focus on. And so you know within this very broad category of sexuality, I immediately was like, OK, but how can I make porn my focus? And luckily, my program allowed you to choose a focus like that. So I could kind of narrow in pretty quickly. And I ended up doing an internship with a um really amazing company called Blue Artichoke Films, which is an Amsterdam-based porn company.
00:08:32
Speaker
And so, yeah I mean, there's so much you can study with sex. And I was just like, this is a huge topic. Porn is really calling to me. And specifically, porn, as as you said at the beginning of the show, as this educational force, right as this way that people learn about sex. I focus more on adults, just because I think it's really interesting to think about how adults continue to learn about sex after any sort of formal education. if you get that in K 12 educ on who what they got. But then you know you leave high school and it's like, okay well you learn about it by having it, y it by watching porn, you learn about it by talking with their friend how often are people doin and what is that like for them
00:09:19
Speaker
And porn is just something that comes up over and over and over again when you're talking about how you learn about sex, you know how to have it, what people are doing, like how people talk about it, slang words, all of it. So it was that was my focus, but I mean, you could do so many different things within you know that the doctorate of sexuality.
Porn as Education and Art
00:09:42
Speaker
I could go back and do it like a thousand more times and choose a different focus every time.
00:09:47
Speaker
So one of the things we wanted to ask was, well, talking about porn and talk about a film festival, right? So when I first got to Portland, somebody had invited me and I didn't go, I gotta admit, I was like a little bit, you know, it was the Hump Film Festival, right? Oh yeah, we love it. And so my background quickly, all right, so I grew up Roman Catholic, I grew up out in Rhode Island, which I think imbues a certain type of like,
00:10:14
Speaker
kind of outlook around ah sexuality that's that's with that. And um when I got out here in Portland, one of the coolest things about it that really transformed me, and Oregon and Portland has its problems, deep problems like other places, but what I found were that there were individuals who expressed themselves in very different way, who talked about their personal freedom with their bodies,
00:10:38
Speaker
and whether it's artistic or how to express themselves or what freak flag they wanted like to fly. I felt that there was a general great spirit like around it. that Not to romanticize it. I'm always trying to be careful about that. but And then hearing about like a film festival. For me, I'm like i'm thinking of a private Catholic kid. right I'm like, okay, if I'm looking at this stuff, it's on my screen. It is in the dark. It is behind the corner somewhere.
00:11:04
Speaker
And what the hell are these people doing watching them with everybody? I listened to porn nerds and heard how much much fun people had and realized how reserved I felt. like yeah and so So tell us about this whole like um communal yeah like the communal like aspect and and and you know what I just told you, how often you know maybe you encounter somebody saying like, what are you doing with your weekend this time? Well, I think I think women's from the show, but it's like I love the porn film festivals because it makes you I feel like I walked porn in a very different way when I'm at the movie theater than I would if I'm using it as like a vehicle to get off it like
00:11:49
Speaker
I don't know it just feels like this scene study of sexuality which is such a big part of so many people's lives and it's often in the shadows and so to have this kind of place where you can come together with a bunch of people and just celebrate sexuality as a force in the diversity of sexuality hump In particular, but most of these indie festivals do a great job of curating like a ton of different styles of sex, a ton of different bodies that you might not normally like seek out. a ton of like just There's so much diversity within what's represented. And so it feels like this incredibly expansive and kind of like radical experience to go into a theater. And
00:12:28
Speaker
celebrate sex with strangers. I mean that's so true and I love it for the same reasons like just being able to see such a wide representation of sex. And then I think part two of that is the actual public forum piece where you're bringing porn and like erotic art back into this public space and it I think has such a destigmatizing power when you do that because it's not behind closed doors. it's not this thing that maybe you do in secret or with shame. It's like, no, we're all out here doing this to together. We all chose on a Friday night to go to a theater and sit next to strangers and watch people have sex, sex that we might never click on ourselves. And so and then talk about it like one of the best parts of hum for any of these festivals is afterwards, people are just like, like just really want to chat about everything that they saw, what they liked, what they didn't like, what they were surprised by. There's there's just like so much conversation that comes from it. And like, that's amazing. You don't get that with porn in very many spaces.
00:13:32
Speaker
Yeah, totally different avenue. And ah we were talking about porn as education, ah which I can even you know extend to my own life again, ah just in how I approached it in my adulthood and still do. I mean, not just to get off and to excite and entice myself and us, but to educate, you know, because it's introduced me to all sorts of different kinks and things that I probably wouldn't necessarily have explored otherwise. but ah So porn is education, but porn is art too, right? So yeah ah this idea of taking it in together, ah coming together to watch the art together, and then talk it over.
00:14:18
Speaker
whole different avenue for digesting it. oh Yeah, makes you appreciate the the erotic art aspect in addition to whatever you can learn from it or just like the horniness of it. But also to your earlier point, Jenny, of how like much it changes when we just have this 24-7 access to porn in our pocket at all times. There's something about having to buy a ticket to go see this thing two weeks from now that like it adds this layer of intentionality that really isn't present in most like internet porn or does like certainly doesn't have to be present with internet porn.
00:14:53
Speaker
And I think when you hear critiques about porn being so sex education, it's that's part of it is that they're kind of like there's this stream of pornography at all times and who depending on what you're watching, it might portray unrealistic versions of sex or body image stereotypes or you know what have you, the whole gamut. and so i think When you're going to a place where it's intentional to go to the theater, the people who are curating the films are being really thoughtful about what they're showing and like how that's going to land with viewers. It just feels like weirdly wholesome. Well, and you know that everything you're watching was made by people who are so enthusiastic about what they're making and so excited for you to see it. So any questions around the ethics are kind of moot at that point too, you know, because that's a big part of the concern around watching porn is like, is what I'm watching okay? Are these people having a good time? Was anyone coerced in making this? But when you go to a festival, you're like, oh yeah, these people are having a great fucking time. They're like in the audience. They're like, that's us. And so you can just enjoy what they're making for your pleasure.
00:16:00
Speaker
yeah Yeah, I am talking about um like this is the part where like I kind of push in the show a little bit. It's art and philosophy, technically. So and then we're talking art and philosophy, but insects and but one of the things.
00:16:14
Speaker
One of the things um that I find like in in my brain, and I think Jenny may share this and she can say it too, is like the things, or so I can be obsessive about things and really get my mind into them, like try to figure them out and understand it and get like you know the too excited type of mode around it.
00:16:31
Speaker
And I find the areas that like my brain has always felt good and habit, and it had been like um kind of intellectual like intellectual affairs and philosophy, but like sex and art. right like These things that are like...
00:16:46
Speaker
Well, why do we lose our mind like kind of like in some sort of way for a certain amount of time for these things and we keep going back to them? So um it's it's a clunky it's a clunky question, but even talking
Erotic Art and Vulnerability
00:17:00
Speaker
about um you know, art and sex, I always see them so closely tied even though the the content might not be overt because of the feeling that they they produce. Do you find a similar, share a similar experience or maybe just your thoughts on sex in art or the the relationship between the two?
00:17:23
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, to the for me the two feel very, very connected, did um partially because so my mom ended up kind of she was in a corporate job and then she moved into being an erotic photographer and like ultimately that evolved into more like porn and sex work in general. And I think we were always really open about talking about that. And I would see like her pieces that she would make of models and like the fantasies that she would create. And so I think from like when I was like a teenager, you know So I think I've kind of always had this seed planted of like the subversive erotic art and how connected those things can be. And I think also just going in and having done like theater and film stuff that to me, what makes a really good story or what makes a really good piece of
00:18:10
Speaker
art is this capacity to feel like moved in some way. And I think the number one ingredient to making somebody feel moved is some display of vulnerability. And there's very few things that are as vulnerable as sex is. And so I think that For me, that's why erotic art or porn can be so effective because you can really like, there's this, Jen from Blue Art and Show Parks about this in the show, it's like there's this like empathy that's evoked from the process of seeing somebody on display in that way. I think it's incredibly powerful. And it it bums me out big time that a lot of porn is kind of denounced as this like,
00:18:49
Speaker
I don't know like cheap or like dirty and like you know because I think that it cheapens the entire act of sex which can be incredibly spiritual and powerful and profound and all the all of it you know so I don't know if it's a rambly answer to your question. This show is rambly rambly answer podcast. Beautifully I like my answer actually.
00:19:11
Speaker
yeah My like very short version of that is that I just have always found museums to be like the most erotic places. I feel like Kelsey took the long eloquent answer, and mine was just like, I just get horny in museums, and that's my connection.
00:19:29
Speaker
It's that, it's that too. No, no, no. let's not This is so tantalizing. the um No ah libraries ever since I was a little kid. I'd see a cute girl and like I'd have like my freaking Spider-Man books and I'm like now I'm more powerful than anything. like yeah it's like I'd be in college and I changed a little bit, you know? but um Very fast, quick, would you rather? or Would you rather have sits in a library or a museum? I mean, I i know my answer.
00:20:02
Speaker
ah I have a hard time choosing, probably both. yeah There's been several times we've been at even the Portland Art Museum and I've straight up wanted to fuck there. yeah what is yeah What is it for you? like What does it but don't does it for you? Well, A, I like having sex in public and B, um ah the art, like just being surrounded by the art and in this, in this I don't know, this the whole environment. yeah yeah Yeah. I think there's something about the space also being really proper. you know It's like elevated culture, so you're there and you're taking in this elevated art and everyone's quiet. Everyone's like, wow, that's really beautiful. Look at that. They're just like, what if I did like the nastiest thing I could imagine?
00:20:52
Speaker
You know, but also like, ah of course, respect, the but something like trans, extra transgressive about yeah doing something like lewd in a place that's so, you know, It's very sensory too. yeah like You're already paying attention to what you're seeing. yeah and like you know Your phone is very present. Very present. It'd be the same as having sex in a church maybe. only yeah Very similar. Art museums are a church. so Well, um the thing is the thing is the library, I mean, you've given a lot of great testimony and different type of answers. but so For me, it's just a library. You know, it's the hot woman with like the smart glasses, intellectual glasses on with a pencil skirt. Like I'm not that complicated. Like it's something to do with sexy librarian is not a new idea, unfortunately.
00:21:45
Speaker
And librarians are the vanguard of free speech in our society. So lots of love, lots of deep love. Lots of love. I like that. For another point for the libraries, I love having to be quiet. Like, I think there's something very simple about that, like being forced to be quiet. Yes. And a museum too. A museum's kind of the same. But it's louder in a museum. You're not told not to talk. Library looks quiet. Seems so pretty quiet, but yeah. Either will public in general. Anyway. Early on Jenny shocked me with the cemetery like out in the cemetery like and and I'm a kooky guy like I like dark stuff like way too much Edgar Allan Poe when I was younger and all that and and Jenny the thing is that Jenny is funny for me cuz like I have all this I know sexual energy that I think I've always tried to grapple with throughout my life understand, you know and like I
00:22:38
Speaker
And Jenny is a powerhouse. And you know like with the whole cemetery thing, it's really kind of like, okay, Jenny, I'm going to follow you because I trust you. And like and it it was it was it was super. ah She didn't creep me out or anything like that. so I don't and don't think there was anything creepy about that experience.
Nookie Card Game and Communication
00:23:01
Speaker
That actually just came up because we were reading through some more of your cards and mean i it was it was some I should have left it out. It was around like the most scandalous place you've ever had sex by yourself or with someone and that was his answer. Yeah. yeah
00:23:18
Speaker
Well, in part of this, I wanted to let some of the listeners know that we're over here on our side, and this is Jenny and Kenny's side, we have the Nookie card deck, which you can get from from Squirm. But what's cool about this, because we contacted you right after this, Kelz and Tess. Jenny and I sent you sent you a message this summer.
00:23:41
Speaker
And we're like, you know, we got these cards, right? Because there are a few hurdles to get over. And you talk about right in the instructions. Number one. if you're talking about sex, it's not that there's a problem. It doesn't have to be a problem. and And I applaud you for simple statements that might sound to listeners like very simple things, but it's very important that you're not necessarily hashing through problems. And when Jenny and I were using these, we have like a strong foundation in our relationship and like any, we're both like very intense,
00:24:17
Speaker
people as well so like we have a particular terrain but like we're cosmically like united like there's Jenny for me and and we've been together for over five years and it's it's Jenny like she's the center for me and that we share that so all yeah just yeah Um, you know, so, so there's, there's all this, all this power, um, between us, but, so we're having trouble, right? And, and, and we're, we're thinking people and we've had, uh, I've had enough therapy to know, like I've, I group therapy. I fucking love therapy. I love therapy. Like therapy got me sober. ah Talking to my therapist helps me get through, you know, um,
00:25:02
Speaker
my trials and, you know, so Jenny and I use these cards, right? and and And they're your cards and it prompted. It was new for us, hadn't done it. um and And one of the coolest things was one of these cards, which isn't a question, listeners, but just listen to this one. This is instructions, essentially. Turn back to back with me for the next three cards. Oh, I'm glad you it.
00:25:26
Speaker
i i I love that instruction because like for me, it was just like, and for me, I'm a philosopher. Let's fuck with the dynamic. Let's mess with the dynamic of how we're interacting. Let's paint left-handed if we're right-handed and and um and vice versa. um And on the other hand, I'm going to want you to jump in about about the cards. ah We have butt stuff.
00:25:50
Speaker
um yeah so Listeners, I mean, there's different prompts, different engagement. and This is scientifically research. good our and Tell us about the Nooki cards. Well, I'll tell you that you actually have like a limited edition deck because over the summer we rebranded the cards. Yeah, you have a new set. So it's a new card deck. There's no more Nookis that are in production. So it's like 30 of those made it over to the new deck. 30 of the new questions, yeah.
00:26:18
Speaker
No, 60 new questions, 30 of the Nookie questions in the The back-to-back one didn't make the cut, but you can still turn back-to-back. Butt stuff is still in the deck. Butt stuff is the foundation of the conversation. It's an important prompt, maybe one of the most important.
00:26:37
Speaker
exactly yeah Talking about sex doesn't mean there's a problem. It's one of our core myths for what we're trying to dispel is squirm. Because and a lot of people reserve talking about their sex lives, their desires, their issues, until there's like yeah no other option and things have gotten really bad. um you know And I know feel like communication is some of the best foreplay. right like It's very hot to hear what somebody else wants, what turns them on.
00:27:08
Speaker
Yeah, that vulnerability that you were speaking of, that vulnerability is sexy and it's hard to get there. Even for grown ass adults who have been in multiple long-term relationships combined, it's still a different space to get to with your partner. um Yeah, we're both freaks though. We are both freaks. But with or without problems, you know, i' just to be able to get to that space to open up ah different avenues. and Yeah, it's rich. Yeah, keep the conversation. I mean, have it be troubleshooting when it needs to be, but also playful and fun and inspiring and and casual. Like it doesn't always have to be this heavy subject.
00:27:52
Speaker
I think another thing with the deck that was really important for us is that it wasn't just about partners being able to play it. Like it's very intentionally marketed as designed to be played with lovers or friends because Personally, some of my favorite experiences playing this deck have been with a group of people with my friends. I remember I was like with three of my close guy friends and one of the cards that came up was describe in detail how you like someone to use your hands, their hands and her mouth on you. And so they're all just like trading, like they're all just like talking clearly for the first time about like how they like their dick sucked. And it was just the most, it was the sweetest thing I'll remember to say that I died. Like it was so sweet. everything thing
00:28:35
Speaker
I don't know. I don't think i don't think guys, and ah this might be a stereotype. I mean, you've shared that guys don't talk about sex as much as like girlfriends do, in general. Yeah, I've developed a different way and and not that you need to hear, you know, the way I developed, but no, like for me, 1980s, right? Like 1980s, so I'm 52, like 80s, like weird ass culture, particularly in like talking about um You know talking about sex and talking with your friends. I'm a teenager You just say whatever's in your head and stuff like that. So there was that there but as time goes on it's like And I was like, I'm gonna call my buddy, you know, I've moved here and there hey, by the way I met this new you know, like I mean it just seems so strange. So there's like a
00:29:22
Speaker
seems to be a lack of space ah for it. And I think maybe it's not always like your point to maybe somebody needs to participate in the game because their partner is not there yet, right? So they get the practice around their safe like friends and be like, okay, when they're ready, I know this is going to be helpful and not to push it. So like the whole idea of um the the kind of like therapeutic aspects of it. And I always thinking of like,
00:29:49
Speaker
When I do something, like I want like relief or liberation or something to kind of like it be tilted towards that. and That's what your deck does. That's my product endorsement. That's what your deck does. Thank you. I think you touched on something really important too, which is the practice element. and just getting it the chance to say these words, talk about sex, talk about it in different contexts as practice for more times in our life when we're going to need to have these conversations. And sometimes practicing in front of your friends is easier than practicing in front of your partner or ah like practicing with yourself, you know, like writing things down. But, you know, you said we don't have a lot of spaces for it. And I think that's why
00:30:32
Speaker
we don't that's it's so hard it's just like we have a lot of opportunity to talk about a lot of other topics and so it kind of just rolls off the tongue a little more naturally but sex we need more practice we know more practice with the words and practice even really understanding what it is that we want to say you know that's like sometimes a big part of it too is not like you have these this like swirl of thoughts in your head and you're like i don't even really know what i'm trying to get at but like something feels off And there's a little bit hard to like assign words to it. And so creating spaces where people can practice, big part of Squared means yes.
Community Events and Feedback
00:31:08
Speaker
That's why you two are doing what you're doing and having these get-togethers and such, like last night, right? Yeah. yeah tell us Tell us about these social events. Yeah. um I mean, we love them. They're so fun. it it's sort of like a ah it's Initially, it was based kind of off the deck, but it's like an adapted format to be able to use it as a social.
00:31:33
Speaker
mixer. So like there's different stations and they have different questions. Now they're rotating around a theme. And we have a little bell. we yeah the bell bell's really important Every seven minutes, everyone just kind of scrambles and goes to a different table with strangers. And then they answer the question that's on the table. It's always connected to the topic of sexuality. But like the one last night was about the intersection between friendship and sexuality. So like, are you friends with exes or like how do you feel about your friends being friends with their ex or have you, do you have non, like hard to define relationships, et cetera. So a bunch of different kind of topics or variations on that topic. And we've played group games and it's just like the most heartwarming thing you've ever seen in your whole life. It's just, it's so cute. We were like treating numbers and it's not speed dating, but you know, we'll probably, there's going to be my marriage yeah eventually. Yeah.
00:32:30
Speaker
It's like definitely not speed dating, but you can definitely meet people that you might want to date. And it's been fun to see it because when we started Squirm, it was only online. It was a pandemic project. We were living in different countries. It was all on Zoom. and so It's only been this last year that we've taken Squirm to real life in-person events and it's fun to kind of see it come to life that way, you know, and get people like in the room having these conversations and not just seeing it happen online. Yes.
00:33:02
Speaker
I know with the podcast got a little bit of tension in the press and news. What was it like the experience of like um maybe expanding out, you know, you're talking, you've been working on this for a while. So what was the experience of having porn nerds and, in you know, in the news and in the press and people, you know, kind of amplifying what you're talking about?
00:33:22
Speaker
I mean, we hope for even more of that. you know I think that our goal is to really get it out there. And ah we've gotten such amazing feedback from it. like It's been, I think, one of the most gratifying projects. I've certainly, probably the most gratifying i've ever done in my life. I think so. In general, but this specific one has felt really good. So it feels like really cool and exciting. And what a relief that we didn't just do this for a year and a half and everyone eats it. Yeah.
00:33:52
Speaker
It's a vulnerable thing to talk about porn and then put it out in the world for people. And it's felt good to have the responses that we've had. And um you know we worked on this show so much longer than we anticipated. I think Kelce mentioned we thought it was going to be a three month turnaround and it was a year and a half. So I feel like having it out now and feeling Really really good about it and hearing this positive feedback Seeing it grow and you know, we don't have any distribution partners with it right now It's like a true indie podcast but like we have good numbers like people are finding it and it makes me It feels like the juices were at the squeeze like all those extra months like the whole summer editing this show while Everyone's at the river. Yeah, it's like so many barbecues. Yeah, we it's just just like
00:34:39
Speaker
it felt It felt worth it. It felt worth it now to feel like it's where I wanted it to be. I think we have always really aligned, too, in the parts that really matter and how we hope this thing would turn out.
00:34:53
Speaker
And we just wanted to grow. So go listen to Portina.
00:34:58
Speaker
it it's it's It's so much fun. no it ah Around in the summer, too, Jenny and I, we totally we had a very different like ah time. of ah We were out outside a whole bunch, um ah nude bathing out in um outside of Portland and like being out there in the morning, they being out there in the water, listening to music. And we just kind of went wild.
Discussing Taboos and Opinions
00:35:22
Speaker
Like, you know, during the summer and um it it was it was just really so great because it was, um I felt transformed by, it we're having so much fun, right? Like all these things that we're talking about should be should be fun, you know, like sex and, you know, like, you know, all these things.
00:35:39
Speaker
One thing I wanted to mention, which is so funny to me is I so I work in labor organizing and I saw in my own head work in arts organizing. And it was so funny when you're, you know, talking about sex and the S word and like it seemed like a parallel conversation about like strikes and like how people are nervous about unions and like you're not supposed to say it. And I just realized when you're talking how many nervous conversations I have of somebody being like Should I be talking to this person? I don't know about unions where it's like talking to this person about sex. Are you supposed to do that? And squirming. That's what I do. i maybe how Totally. Yeah.
00:36:24
Speaker
I feel like yeah, it's any time we're kind of laying your beliefs or preferences bare is scary. You know, like I think that's where it gets really squirmy. If you have to like share some part of your core self, it's like so much safer to talk about external factors that like there's kind of a universally decided upon opinion of like rain bad, you know, or like not bad. But like if you have kind of these deeper layers of other sex or unions or any of it, it just feels a lot more more revealing. That was some of the best advice we got when making the show was to disagree with each other more or at least allow for a little bit more like murkiness in what we were talking about and like laying out our individual opinions more because I think for a while we were really trying to come at the show from like here's what squirm has to say about porn.
00:37:18
Speaker
And it's actually way more interesting to hear what Kelso has to say and what I have to say and how sometimes that's really similar. And sometimes we like see things really differently. And it's like, it's fun because, you know, it's that tension when you're talking about squirmy things, like that's what pulls people in and makes people think. And it's all, it's just more compelling material, whether it's like real life or a podcast. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like the first year or a test and I were just constantly coming up with joint statements. Yeah. We're writing sounds. We're like, OK, what do we hear about this? We endorse this? We endorse this. OK, turn on the mic. We're together on this. Yeah. It's important to have some healthy discourse, too, though. People, especially here in Oregon, maybe, have a hard time with healthy argument and agreeing to disagree and being OK with that. And even two people in a relationship
00:38:12
Speaker
ah like Ken said, we're pretty cosmically connected. I've never experienced that. He's never experienced it. It's a real thing, but we're still two individuals and theyll there are there's moments where we don't have the same thoughts and ideas and it's okay. It's okay for us. In fact, that's maybe even healthier if we're not always having these joint union statements, right? Yeah, I think totally healthier. It's more sort of fun too, you know, like there's bound, like, I don't know, maybe this won't translate, but I feel like it might just be mush if everyone agreed all the time. Like it's nice to have that pushback and that force of like challenging your beliefs and maybe you move and maybe you don't, but then you feel like clearer in what your position is. And I think
00:39:02
Speaker
i Yes, I feel like everyone can stand myself included to get more comfortable with not always reaching some kind of like perfect middle ground or like conclusion that everyone's on board with. like Sometimes you just let it fit and that's okay. Exactly.
00:39:18
Speaker
That said, I do fuddly agree most of the time. I disagree. Yeah, it's just the consulting. I mean, you need to, you know, you need to come on, get at each other a little bit more. It is a real mind meld situation every year sometimes. but it it it It happens when you're particularly working in like ah work with others or communal work. It's like that whole that whole thing that starts to develop. um So all right, so part of this is Kels and Tess, you're kicking off three, four episodes that we have. wherere We're just calling it. I don't have a fancy marketing thing. You both are just so much better on it. It's it's something like Turn Up the Spice, Spice Meter, December.
00:40:05
Speaker
where Any and I are still in the midst of working on a labor strike, which sounds unsexy, but they're really sexy too, but ah exactly Becoming like getting married like we had ah we had a proposal on the picket line Not not ah oh not us yeah very levels of Union, you know example umm Hey, and you know there's secret truths in America and American and American labor movement um But you know, we've been doing all that work and part of it is like back behind us There's a little bit of delay on the show I always put a you know an episode a week and ah you know kind of work in 24-7 on some important stuff and so now putting things together in like December gets a
00:40:55
Speaker
cold and rainy in the Pacific Northwest, and it can get cold in other places.
Creative Activities and Future Plans
00:41:00
Speaker
It's warmer in Australia, but um but just something to to turn it up and to amp it up. Some people get turned on by the holidays. We're going into December 2024 here. I could recommend folks to get squirm stuff and the get squirmy decks.
00:41:18
Speaker
What type of things do people look for? ah Was it movies or music or one of your mixers to spice things up ah in in in a December 2024? What do folks go to Duke sites looking at your stuff? What do they do? Well, we can always direct them to fun porn that they can watch together.
00:41:42
Speaker
um or like spicy erotica to read together if they want to stay home in front of the fire you know hot toddies and whatnot um i don't know there's there's play parties and sex clubs like that happens inside usually that's pretty warm i think they have to turn the heat up they are take your clothes off but There was, this is something that I've always wanted to try from, you're talking about just generally spice up, right? Yeah. Yeah. We need your help. Okay. So this is from a hump film. So don't, I'm not taking credit for this idea, but there was a really good one last year where they had everyone, kind of the couple was like writing fantasies or things on their sexual bucket list down on little slips of paper and they put it in a box and then they would like draw one and they would film each other, like document through the process and like report back. It was beautifully done.
00:42:34
Speaker
And also just so fun because I think yeah like in that movie they're like laughing and it kind of went awry and stuff was bad and so I think it was like sexy and spicy for them and also really connecting from the fails. so Yeah they could do like a bucket list yeah for the following year. 2025 bucket list and then like the hump film kind of write it all down, hold one slit per month.
00:42:58
Speaker
or ok Or it's like an advent calendar. So it's like the 12 days of Christmas, but you have like the 12 sex acts of Christmas. Each It's a whole new thing. That's why I asked this question. like Even just like toys and props, like yeah well the advent calendar of fun sex toys.
00:43:18
Speaker
Yeah, right you know it doesn't even have to be like a full new dildo. It could just be like a nice scarf that you put up with someone's eyes or like the dire fun loop. Yeah. For the early days in the month, a nice nice little scarf. A nice little scarf to blindfold you with. Yeah. it it It builds from there leading up to the ad that Yeah, how we should they can make their own hunt film. Yeah, they could definitely you can submit until early December, December six is the deadline. Oh my goodness. wow honest Yeah. Yeah. ah And I think like have conversation. I mean, well love for saying have conversations but like have conversations like you know you never really truly know somebody fully even a partner that you've been with for five or ten years like treat it like it's your first date like go out to a different place like get just ask questions that you would ask if you were just meeting someone for the first time i've had like close close friends for 10 years and i still there's whole swaths of their life that i've never yeah out and exercise that we did once
00:44:25
Speaker
but like a group trip trip to Mexico and an exercise that we did was like, okay, two minutes on the clock, like tell me your life story, like tip to tail. And you can twist that question for it to be more sexual if you want your dating history, whatever. But like to just hear a bite-sized version of like the condensed life story of someone that even that you know well, I think it can tap you into different parts of them, which is really cool. this just really had that curiosity It's really telling what somebody would choose to say within two minutes. awesome What details is someone giving about themselves and that way? Totally. I had to ask more about December because ah my imagination doesn't get beyond Hallmark movies with Danica McKellar.
00:45:11
Speaker
I'm of a particular sort and a particular age. So that's why I asked because that's as far as I usually need to go. But that's Hallmark. and thats the whole thing janenny you are not real yeah like get a little bit of a disapproving. I have no shame. No shame. a again all That's fine. That's good. um It'd be more interesting if they were naked most of time. Maybe that's your hump video. Like one's a baker. Homework goes wild. uh, Kelsey tests, uh, and then the whole squirm, uh, enterprise, uh, where do the folks go to find your stuff? Like it was, what's like the website, where did they order the products, all that stuff.
00:45:59
Speaker
Yeah, so our website is GetSquirmy.com. You can follow us on Instagram at Squirm. There's little dashes, but just type Squirmy, you'll find us. All of our decks, if you're in Portland, all of our events are on our website, so you can always stay in the loop with what's coming up. The podcast porn nerds is anywhere that you get your podcast, Apple Spotify. So please listen, rate, review all that.
00:46:24
Speaker
Yeah, right now, currently, 2024, we're just doing Portland events, but we have grand plans to bring events to other cities starting next year. So keep an eye out for your for events in your city, too. And we'd also, we just love meeting people. and in Portland and in all sorts of places. And so we're looking to connect with people in other cities and you know collaborate. One of my favorite parts of doing Squirm is partnering with people who are doing interesting things and seeing what the sweet spots are for like working together. And a big part of that is you know people in other places who are tapped into communities who would want something like what we offer with Squirm. So
00:47:04
Speaker
please, if you're listening outside of Portland, get in touch if you think that there's some opportunity for collaboration.
Personal Growth and Podcast Directions
00:47:11
Speaker
But yeah, you can find all of our stuff on our site and reach us there.
00:47:16
Speaker
There's got to be plenty of squirmy places. I can think of 25 right off the top of my head. one yeah from Seattle, Providence, Rhode Island, Madison, Wisconsin. Shout out to Chicago, Illinois, Austin, Texas, San Jose. Yeah. We have a lot of squirmy connections, actually. ah and We have. So now we're using, Jenny has described some of our connections as squirmy connections. You should be highly, feel great about that. um yeah We have squirmy ah companions in other areas.
00:47:51
Speaker
um ah you know It's been it's just been such a blast to talk to. I got to tell you, in in doing the show and and in and Jenny and I ah being in together, I mean, like I said, a lot of this stuff starts to bump to like profound questions, sex and death, right? Like, um you know, art, things that um excite us. One of the things that's been really thrilling for me is kind of like,
00:48:15
Speaker
Have like active learning and to feel really free to have this type of conversation with my partner here with you of being like I know this fucked up shit about the way that I grew up or the way that I learned about Sexuality be perfectly playing with you culturally otherwise and never tried to be that person or exemplify it, but there's toxic elements. So the arc towards health for me, I don't give a shit of my age or what people think about this. For me, it helps me feel a lot ah better and being able to have this conversation ah with you is is like a thrill because like, you know, we love you and you're awesome. so
00:48:54
Speaker
ah from you Yeah, it's we're so happy to be with you guys after all this time. Yes, really appreciate that. Excellent. A quick question, and I don't think we hit on it, but is there a plan for more Poor Nerds podcasts by chance?
00:49:14
Speaker
e Yes and no and yes and probably no. So there's definitely going to be more podcasting coming and we will keep porn nerds alive. It's unclear yet what that form is going to take, but porn nerds, I feel like porn nerds has taken on a life of its own and it's going to keep showing up. It's unclear if we're going to do like a full second season of it or like dabble it in into a different type of show. Yeah. As you know, with the topic of porn, there's so, so, so much that we can still say and that is exciting to talk about and important to talk about. So we will find a way to keep porn nerds in people's ears. Yes. Yeah. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for having us.
00:50:00
Speaker
Oh, such fun. Kelzin, Kelzin Tess from a Squirm in Ken and Jen ah signing off. um Thank you both again for coming on to the show and we're going to head back to the cards and thanks for ah thanks for making things more fun. ah Really great to have you on the show. Thank you so much. So good to talk to you guys.
00:50:28
Speaker
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00:50:38
Speaker
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00:50:59
Speaker
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00:51:26
Speaker
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