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#113: Preparing the Next Generation of Safety Professionals
572 Plays8 months ago
Join Elizabeth Johnson, Senior Director of EHS at Mitsubishi Power Americas, as she discusses what the next generation of EHS professionals will need, in addition to technical expertise, to be successful. We cover the importance of soft skills, such as communication and leadership, the significance of clear and concise writing, and the value of pursuing education. Overall, Elizabeth highlights the importance of supporting and mentoring the next generation of safety professionals and leaving a positive impact on the profession. Elizabeth shares her into the safety profession, starting with her time in the United States Army and her transition into the field of safety.
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Transcript
Introduction of Guests
00:00:08
Speaker
This is the Accidental Safety Curl brought to you by HSI. This episode was recorded January 11th, 2024. My name is Jill James, HSI's Chief Safety Officer. And today my guest is Elizabeth Johnson. Elizabeth is Senior Director of EHS at Mitsubishi Power Americas. And Elizabeth is joining us today from her office in Florida. Welcome to the show. Thank you. So excited to be here.
00:00:35
Speaker
You've been a long time listener, it sounds like to the podcast. I have. It's one of my favorite ones, especially one that I'm listening to in the car or really on my hard days. I really like to kind of circle back and remember why I'm in this field from such exceptional guests that you have. Thank you. And thank you on behalf of all of the guests, which now includes you. Oh, thank you. Yeah.
Path from College to Safety Role
00:01:03
Speaker
What is your origin story? How did you accidentally find your way into this? Well, I think like multiple people on your show, I didn't start off obviously going, I want to grow up and be a safety professional. Actually, being a safety professional was so just not in my radar growing up. So I actually am really from Mississippi.
00:01:28
Speaker
And, um, you know, went to college and kind of stumbled around college for a little bit, kind of going, I don't really know what I wanted to do. And then 9 11 occurred and I'm in my early twenties at this point. And I just said, you know what? I really think that, um, you know, I needed to do more. Um, and at that time, um, you know, you're.
00:01:47
Speaker
You're young and dumb, but I was smart enough to know that I probably should get my act together just a little bit. And so I actually joined the United States Army. It's been about five years in the Army intelligence world. So if anybody's out there, part of the 18th Airborne Corps, you know, hello, brothers and sisters.
00:02:03
Speaker
And then there met my husband. You know, we kind of started our family together and then his career moved us, you know, kind of around and we ended up in Tennessee. And when we were in Tennessee, I said, you know what, I'm going to finish that bachelor's degree. And for anybody who's
00:02:22
Speaker
past 25, especially late 20s, early 30s going back to school, especially for your undergraduate. I'm with you on that one. It's a challenge in itself. But graduated from Tennessee Tech with a Geoscience degree and everybody thinks it sounds really fancy. It's Google Maps and steroids for the most parts, mapping layers. And why did you pick that?
00:02:47
Speaker
Well, this was really close to what I was doing in the military. I was part of military intelligence. I did a lot of radar and imagery analysts. Okay. So I thought, you know, I was like, well, I will, I'll go do that, get a degree in that because then I can open up career doors and I'll, I'll go be a, you know, I'll go work for the CIA. I'll be something fun, you know, something cool. Um, did not happen. So I always wanted to do that too.
00:03:12
Speaker
Yeah, well, it sounds it sounds really cool, right? Yeah. I don't know if y'all remember like the show 24, but I'm like, yes, let's do our X-Files. That's okay. Just do like X-Files. Let's go be secret squirrels. So not reality, but that's, you know, that's really wanted to give back, you know, and be a part of that. And, and I really
OSHA Career and Reflections
00:03:35
Speaker
loved it.
00:03:36
Speaker
And so in that transition period of graduating college, you know, later in life, having this big dream of being some sort of like super cool government agent, secret squirrel, and having that very quickly fizzle because just from Chattanooga, Tennessee, options are slim.
00:03:55
Speaker
And so, look at some other jobs and there was a job posting for the safety specialist with Department of Labor and they needed somebody that can have earth science and understand, you know, some of that aspects and geosciences and earth science degree so I took
00:04:12
Speaker
I took earth science. I learned about dirt. And the plate tectonics. And the plate tectonics and soft dirt and hard dirt. And so if you ever in that Smoky Mountain region of Tennessee and North Georgia, dirt's important because they have slides and things. And so they wanted a specialist that understood that for trenching purposes. Yeah.
00:04:35
Speaker
And I very distinctly remember sitting in the parking lot of the building waiting for my first interview and looking at notes, again, dating myself because it wasn't smartphone, but looking at notes of what this was Department of Labor in this thing called OSHA. And I'm like, what is this? Somehow, I don't know how, it was so entry level.
00:04:59
Speaker
Um, but somehow I, I got a second interview, ended up getting the position, which was, um, just fantastic. But, um, anyway, I, uh, got into OSHA and this first couple of years in there, we're still trying to figure out how to spell OSHA, much less what it was supposed to be doing. Yeah. Didn't you know, Elizabeth, it's a small town in Wisconsin.
00:05:21
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. That's actually, I have a sticker with that on my home office. It cracks me up every single time. But one of the things that led me to success in the beginning was I was able to bring my military root cause analysis and investigation skills over.
00:05:44
Speaker
which the reward with that was that as I grew as an individual and as a EHS person with on the compliance side of things, I was able to get tougher and more kind of high profile cases. The negative side of that is that those tougher and high profile cases were amputations, hospitalizations, and fatalities.
00:06:09
Speaker
Um, and so I really spent like that last bit of my, um, timeframe with OSHA, you know, investigating those learned so much. And, um, you know, it's funny cause my, my manager at the time and, and I will, you know, please, please put this on air because it's coming from a, a long time OSHA compliance officer and people don't ever believe me when I say this.
00:06:30
Speaker
He told me something that has stuck with me my entire career. And it's been, you have to walk into every situation knowing that you are not the subject matter expert, but is your job to understand and to see the big picture of everything that's going on.
00:06:47
Speaker
And
Early Career Advice and Documentation
00:06:48
Speaker
that has been the foundation of my entire career. I similarly called my very first boss with OSHA, now almost 30 years ago. I don't know, maybe a couple of months ago, and I found him, you know, he's long retired. And I said, I'm calling to thank you for some things that you taught me back then.
00:07:18
Speaker
Similar to what you're doing, his things were maybe not as profound as what you just said, though in their simplicity they were. His words to me were, one, never park the state car in front of a bar.
00:07:40
Speaker
Fantastic advice, which was fantastic advice to understand as a 20 some year old kid with a badge, like taxpayers care about these things. And it really mattered when I showed up in these tiny towns, and I needed to use a bathroom before I set out into a company to inspect them, like don't park in front of the bar, I parked in front of the, you know, the fire department and walk to a bar to use a public bathroom. But his big thing was always tell the truth.
00:08:07
Speaker
Never lie. Don't ever make up anything in your documentation. If you didn't take the notes on something, if you didn't take the photograph, don't try to remember. Don't guess at what it was.
00:08:23
Speaker
just always be honest and tell the truth. I think
Transition to Private Sector and COVID-19
00:08:26
Speaker
you and I might have had the same boss. Really? Yeah. I still keep up with him periodically and even now in my career, I'll be working with my team or on something that's going on and I'll get down one of those tunnels rabbit holes and I'll have that self-check moment and I'll sit there and I'll go, you know what? This is not what I was taught.
00:08:51
Speaker
You know and you know, I need to take a step back and really am I approaching this with the right mindset? And it's just I mean again that is You know being here to be a supporter a helper and an advisor, you know Not a not a dictator, you know, not a that's right, you know, not a stopgate. So Yeah, you gotta love those just mold you through the whole your whole life. I
00:09:17
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely it did. Yeah, for me too. I wanted to ask when you were with OSHA and you happened to know a lot about soils in the earth and you mentioned trenching and excavating and all the accidents and things that you investigated, did you end up being that sort of an expert within the division you worked for or did it expand out from that?
00:09:42
Speaker
Um, so in my entire career with OSHA, I think I did one trench. Yeah. Okay. So yeah, we need this person. Um, and then what was like work imagine versus work reality. We ended up actually, you know, the timeframe just didn't have a lot of trenching. Yeah, I didn't either. And isn't that funny? Because it's been a special emphasis program with federal OSHA for as long as I can remember. Um, but I did a lot of inspections, but never,
00:10:11
Speaker
a collapse and I did a lot of fatality investigations too. That's interesting. Yeah, I didn't do what got my foot in the door as much as I thought I would, but yeah, as far as, I became one of the, there was a couple of us in the office and there was a lot of fatalities and incidents there at the end that depending on what it was, it was more of my alley. I definitely did more of the
00:10:40
Speaker
manufacturing or general business and I had a counterpart that did a lot more of the construction side of things, but we would get that phone call and who knows where we would end up. That's right. Yeah, that's right. When did you do your master's degree?
00:10:59
Speaker
So my master's degree, so I was with OSHA for a while and then my husband who actually just retired from the military, he got stationed in Savannah, Georgia. And then from there I was working with a couple of different companies and decided, you know what, Georgia Tech had just offered a new master's degree program in occupational health and safety. And I had this brainiac idea that I could work full-time
00:11:28
Speaker
and be a full-time master's student at Georgia Tech and raise a child and switch jobs and renovate a house all at the same time. I've had a point like that in my life as well. How'd that go for you?
00:11:47
Speaker
I just know that I don't know what I was, you know, drinking at the time, but whatever it was, I'm not doing that again. But yeah, no, I survived. I think I really do think that I have a wonderful piece of paper that hangs on the wall that says I have a master's degree from Georgia Tech. But I really do think the t-shirt that says I survived fits better. Week one.
00:12:16
Speaker
It was a hybrid program, so we weren't on campus 24-7, just because where I was living in Savannah versus where Georgia Tech is in Atlanta just wouldn't have been possible. So that was really good, it was hybrid. But week one they pulled all the students in there and I'm sitting at a round table and there's department heads of like major corporations that are sitting in there that have got decades of experience on me at this particular time. And I'm sitting going, what have I done?
00:12:43
Speaker
Um, and then the instructor comes in and he, you know, gives us a half hour lesson and he talks about some things. He goes, okay. Well, the paper's going to be due on Friday and it's going to be a quarter of your grade. Ooh. And I'm going, I'm, I'm sorry.
00:12:58
Speaker
I'm still getting used to college. I'm not even sure where I parked my car. So that was when I was going, Oh dear Lord, what have I done? But ultimately it was, there was a paper, it was a significant portion of our grade, but it wasn't the whole portion of our grade. And there was lots of resources and support along the way.
00:13:23
Speaker
But it was just that Georgia Tech standard that was established at the beginning. And really one of the best decisions I've ever made in my career is going back and getting that master's degree. Tech is phenomenal for me. So I recommend it. Yeah. And you had worked with OSHA for how long before you started grad school?
00:13:46
Speaker
So I was, I had worked for Osher a little bit over two years. Um, and then my husband got stationed in, in Georgia. So Tennessee is a state plan state. Georgia is a fed. So couldn't, couldn't transition over. Um, and so when I started working again in Georgia, um, actually worked for a beer distribution company. Um, and you want to talk about, you know,
00:14:09
Speaker
whiplash of culture change, um, learned a lot, um, you know, with, uh, with the beer company. Um, and so, but it was, I was working for that company for about a year when I started, um, my master's degree program. So this was, gosh, what year is it 20? It's now 2024. So this was about eight years ago.
00:14:33
Speaker
Well, yeah. Yeah, I mean, going from public, I mean, I'm sorry, government, employment, and let's face it, you had worked for the government, for the army, and then for the state, and then you went into private sector. Yeah, that's a shock to the system. Well, I did the same, I did the same
00:14:52
Speaker
I didn't have the military piece, though I worked as a civilian on a base for a while. What was the thing that was the most shocking to you going from government to private? Well, first of all, I'll say this. If anybody is good, especially from an EHS standpoint, going from rigid government experience for about 10 years and then going into the private sector,
00:15:21
Speaker
choosing a beer company to go into adds another layer of the shock. So I'm going to just go ahead and lay that there. But I will say, I think the biggest thing for me, especially at the time, was the lack of understanding of regulations and what regulations mean.
00:15:43
Speaker
Ah, because I'm, you know, especially with the military, there's your rules, their rules, you don't really question them, you just, you know, you know, your boundaries, you know, how you can operate. OSHA was very much the same way there was, you know, it's not 100% black and white, there's definitely some gray in there, but it's, it's a rule block, you know, and so either
00:16:07
Speaker
You follow the rules or you kind of don't and I say that with a big asterisk next to that but um You know, there's there's that standard and so kind of going into that public stand to the um, sorry the private industry um, especially with a beer company especially with a sales team that are 21 to 25 years old um and
00:16:29
Speaker
there's commercials with knights and swords and phrases that are now ingrained in my head. But, you know, there's a lot of, you know, are you sure we have to do that? And it was just kind of that shock of having to sell safety. And, you know, and going behind people and it was
00:16:52
Speaker
You know, that was the biggest one. Like he knew it was going to be a challenge, but that transition of having listened to so many EHS professionals on the compliance side and them going, we're, we're doing our due diligence. We're, we're doing our best. And I'm going, yeah, okay. You know, and then being there going, Oh gosh, you know, like, I get it. And so there's probably a couple of people that I need to write apology letters for, but, um, just know that I'm sorry. If my name
Balancing Studies, Work, and Family
00:17:19
Speaker
rings a bell, I'm sorry. Um,
00:17:21
Speaker
I had a similar experience, a similar thing. Every time I would leave a company that I had inspected, I'd get in my car and I'd be like, the car that wasn't parked in front of the bar.
00:17:38
Speaker
I was so happy that I wasn't the one that was going to have to carry out all that stuff. I'm like, this job is so hard. And then I became the person that had to carry out all the stuff. And oh, right. No one will listen to you. It doesn't matter how much you cite the gospel of OSHA. It doesn't matter. You've got to have some skills on selling and brevity.
00:18:04
Speaker
And, and, and yeah, absolutely. And the just deep breathing techniques. I think that's the other key. Oh, is that, is that why in my, in my spare time, I teach a breath and meditation class? It's probably subconscious. I'm so happy we're figuring out everything, Elizabeth.
00:18:27
Speaker
All the things. It's a new year. Elizabeth's the first guest of 2024 and we're getting it all figured out. I'm sorry. Let's bring this back to you. You're in the private sector. First time you're in grad school. What else is going on?
00:18:46
Speaker
Oh, I mean, there's a lot of stuff going on, you know, my personal life, you know, kids, dogs, all of this sort of stuff, just the typical, you know, things you're that, you know, and then during all of that, I got an opportunity, I got a phone call from somebody and said, Hey, Savannah has a major aircraft manufacturer.
00:19:03
Speaker
And I got a phone call from a friend of mine who's also in the safety world and says, hey, they have an opening that I think you'd be really, really good at. And it's got a career path. And he knew at the time that even though I had a great job with the beer company, I didn't really necessarily have a career path or some other things that I was really kind of looking for for longevity. And he's like, throw your name in the hat because these opportunities with this organization doesn't come up often.
00:19:32
Speaker
And I was like, well, sure. Why not? I'll throw my name in a hat. Long story long, I guess, at this point. I ended up getting the role of this aircraft manufacturer, which was huge. And so it was really kind of my first time in manufacturing. Things are going fantastic. I've been enjoying things. Life is great. And then COVID hit.
00:19:54
Speaker
Um, and COVID, uh, you know, did wonderful things for the EHS field, looking back at everything that happened over those, especially first two years, really kind of the first three. Um, but for my career at that time, you know, there was, you know, companies were shutting down, you know, people were sending shifts home. You can't manufacture an aircraft from your garage. So there was a lot of challenges and things of that nature.
00:20:21
Speaker
And even though my job was 100% secure, I was losing some of my resources, plus I was also becoming like the HR point of contact, the security point of contact, because I was one of the few essentials that was allowed to come in and made a tough decision mid COVID, the fall of COVID, so the fall of 2020.
00:20:48
Speaker
to transition and take an opportunity with Mitsubishi Power America's at their manufacturing site that was also located in Savannah. It was
Advancing EHS Profession and Mentorship
00:21:00
Speaker
interesting to transition roles in a pandemic during the pandemic, you know, so, you know, you're meeting everybody virtually and you know, you're not really sure what's going on and
00:21:11
Speaker
and everything, but it ended up being just again, a fantastic decision. I've been with Mitsubishi Power America since then and have loved every single minute of it. And it's just a great organization for me. Yeah. Yeah. Elizabeth, when you mentioned that COVID was good for the EHS profession, if anyone listening is like, I agree with that, I disagree with that, or I wonder what the heck she's talking about. What did you think is good?
00:21:40
Speaker
So I think at the time when everybody was waist deep and trying to figure out what was going on, the individual stress I think we all had during that was not great. However, looking back, we've never experienced that before in our EHS kind of culture, especially the last 30, 40 years, something that's significant.
00:22:09
Speaker
And all of a sudden, for those of us who are trying to get into meetings and get into conversations and getting to planning and getting into leadership decision makings, those doors were just thrown wide open for most of us. And all of a sudden, we're not only essential worker, we're also essential to the business. And while we were always vital, we were always key to be a part of a component to any business.
00:22:37
Speaker
It bumped us up in a lot of ways. And this is very broad, of course, you know, talking about us as culture, but just talking to a lot of my peers, you know, it's like, yeah, we're, we're now part of five-year strategy plans. We're now part of operational meetings. We're, we're part of sales meetings now. Yeah. Got a seat at the table for many, many, many of us got a seat at a table that we've never had before.
00:23:02
Speaker
Absolutely. I mean, and it ripples effects, you know, because I mean, I think a lot of us saw, you know, better opportunities, which led to, you know, a whole slew of, you know, either leadership promotions or career paths or financial gains and things of that nature. We've kind of seen the ripple effect of that.
00:23:20
Speaker
Um, as, as a broad, not everybody, unfortunately, there's a lot of challenges and layoffs and things throughout that entire timeframe, but as a, as a field, um, the most part, I really do think it, it improved us and put us in a place that we weren't before. Yeah.
00:23:35
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. I agree. I agree. I've spoken with, with many of our cohorts who feel the same, who feel the same and like, you know, that we can't slide back into what was either, you know, it's like we elbowed our way in, we're at the table, gosh, we're staying here. Oh, absolutely. Do not give up that seat. That's the only thing I can say is don't, don't give up that seat. Elizabeth, what made you fall in love with this career?
00:24:01
Speaker
Um, there's gosh, there's so there's so many things. Um, my, my core, you know, things that, that bring me joy, um, is, is service, you know, um, I think it's kind of funny. We talked to people who take like that love language, like, which I love language and mine's are mine's acts of service. Um, which ironically also plays directly into my career. Um, because I love helping people. Um, I really, really honestly do. And.
00:24:29
Speaker
The thing, and maybe it's because growing up in Mississippi, which is a challenging, different place to grow up than some of our other places across the country, but always trying to help out that person that's doing everything that they can to provide for themselves and their family, they shouldn't have to really sacrifice their safety for that.
00:24:56
Speaker
And, and that's always been, been that motivation factor for me is, you know, not, not the newest, not the most longevity, but every single person that's in our, in our team, in our community, there's nothing that we do as an organization that should trump their personal health and safety.
00:25:16
Speaker
Um, and so being able to continually remind people of that and then also Be a part of the team that Improves the the quality of their work life Um, that just brings me joy. It just makes me happy, you know to you know, maybe it's maybe it's just a You know free donuts in the break room
00:25:38
Speaker
great, let's, we can do donuts, you know, or it's maybe it's, you know, shoes that don't quite fit and talking to somebody saying, Hey, why don't you try this other brand? And they get the right PPE that fits and it feels good. I mean, those little things just came to changes. Yeah. For me, there, there, there's the little things are the big impacts for me.
00:25:58
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, agreed, agreed. You know, when you think about where you're at in your career now. Yeah, what is what is the what is what's on the horizon for you know, what are you thinking about looking looking at your career and and from its vantage point today?
00:26:16
Speaker
Um, well, I, I try not to think about where I am, um, a whole bunch, just because one, I don't want to admit how old I'm getting. Um, that hurts a little. Um, but the gray hairs are strong. Um, uh, but the two, I just, it, you know,
00:26:38
Speaker
But sometimes I just have to pinch myself going, you know what? I'm ahead of EHS for a major corporation and it doesn't always sink in. Because I just still feel like I'm a field EHS person. I want to be with the team and out there. So that's part of it.
00:26:58
Speaker
So, as I transition into this kind of second chapter of my life and of my career when 401ks and retirement plans are really starting to become more of a weekly conversation and not something that my parents did. First of all, what am I doing getting old? This is just dumb.
00:27:21
Speaker
Yeah, but um really it's now looking at the next generation of ehs professionals Um, you know, I really hope that covet was the big thing for from you know between 9 11 and covet It's really been the two major events from my career Um, and I really hope that that's that's it. I don't we don't need to trump either one of those um, so it's really now looking at at the next generation and we have
00:27:51
Speaker
We have some fantastic coordinators on our team here, and they started their EHS career in COVID, which is mind boggling to me. They had the internet in their hands when they were born. I know life before the internet, so they don't know EHS life before COVID.
00:28:17
Speaker
looking at them and investing in them and their professional development because they're gonna conquer something else and giving back to them and making sure that they have the tools in their toolbox to be successful is really what I'm passionate about. And not just for our teams, but really for our field, is setting up this next generation of EHS professional
00:28:44
Speaker
Yeah. And when you're meeting, I mean, it sounds to me, Elizabeth, that you're doing mentoring. A little bit. Yeah. Yeah. What are the things that you think are important for this next generation that's coming after us and is starting right now? What are the things that you're sharing with them that you feel are important?
00:29:09
Speaker
for them to know and develop. Yeah, I think, well, one,
Communication and Leadership Strategies
00:29:12
Speaker
obviously, the education piece. The days of being the person who was a worker that got injured, and they had a really good story, and then they became the safety person. Yes, I teach our sales team about that all the time. Sometimes you're going to have someone whose background in education has a PhD, and sometimes they're going to be the injured person archetype, and they look at me and go, what?
00:29:39
Speaker
Yeah, that's the thing. Yeah. And not that that's not a great way to get into our field. Yes, that's absolutely true. Yes. And there's nothing wrong with that as long as they get the technical expertise along the way. So the education part is very, very close to my heart and I could probably get on a soapbox about it.
00:30:00
Speaker
Yeah, do that. Do that. Because, you know what, the other person who will get on the soapbox with you is a guest that everyone's heard a few times, Dr. Todd Lucian. So yes, Elizabeth, go for it. Absolutely. No, I really do feel that, you know, from a field standpoint, you know, OSHA was created in 1970. So we're really just about 50 years old as a field. And that's very, very young when you compare us to doctors or engineers who
00:30:26
Speaker
been around for centuries, their education path to support them in their field. And so I really would love to see EHS, occupational health and safety, safety engineering, things of that nature that deal with occupational become much more of a career path opportunity
00:30:44
Speaker
for the new generations. I have a high schooler, you go to career day with her, and if I'm not there, there's not another person that's advocating for occupational health and safety to be a norm. And so I really would love to see that kind of on the big scale, and I really would love to see our universities and college
00:31:02
Speaker
take advantage of that seat that we earned at the table during COVID and develop that career path for people to come into our field because as we continue to grow as a country, we have to have these fields and they have to be educated because we're just not
00:31:27
Speaker
You can say a lot of things, but you really need that technical expertise as well. But kind of going back to your original question about some of the other stuff that, looking at mentoring, I'm really working with my rookies and really the whole team, because it goes back to that seat at the table bit that we talked about.
00:31:49
Speaker
is you can be as technically educated in EHS as you can possibly be. You can go to every single training, every single class. You can have your whole OSHA deck of certifications, all of that. But if you don't have soft skills for communication, soft skills for being a manager or a leader,
00:32:18
Speaker
Um, you're not going to transition and you're not going to keep moving forward in your career. And so I think that's something that I've seen personally in my career that we have phenomenal technical experts that are some of the smartest people I've ever met, but they don't have that soft skill approach. And so their message gets lost.
00:32:40
Speaker
Yeah. And so when you talk with people about that, what are you advising them to do in terms of upskilling themselves? What resources, training, if you were to lay out a menu of things you could recommend to people, what would you say they are and where should they pursue them?
00:33:02
Speaker
Well, obviously I recommend some podcasts. I do. And that sounds cheesy and it's not a plug because you didn't, you didn't nudge me to say that, but honestly, it truly honestly is because I think you could learn a lot from, from the leaders, especially the leaders that you have on this podcast and then some other just, you know, other podcasts where you have strong leadership skills that may not necessarily be talking directly about EHS, but
00:33:27
Speaker
of just how to, you know, be a coach, how to be a mentor, how to be a salesman. I mean, all of that is those key soft skills. So that's part of it. And I think that that really helps, especially kind of reaching some of our new generation. You know, they really gravitate towards the podcast and it's a great resource.
00:33:49
Speaker
There's a lot of other ones that are, you know, really free. I mean, LinkedIn Learning has several courses for soft skills that helps you. I know my organization, my company, we have different classes based off of, are you a new manager? Are you a supervisor? Are you more seasoned? And again, it has nothing to do with our particular field, but I encourage all of them to take it because it's a skill set that they need to have.
00:34:15
Speaker
Yeah, HSI, same thing within our organization and the way that we serve our customers. Again, same thing like courses on how to have difficult conversations. Yes. You know, de-escalation techniques, how to run an effective meeting.
00:34:30
Speaker
you know, like all of those kind of things that we're certainly not taught in our undergrad and graduate schools. Though I will say that my grad program did include a short lesson on Robert's Rules of Order, but that's about it. And I don't know if we call that a soft skill, I call that business etiquette, you know. Yeah, well, that's also a secret. How did you make that into a short lesson? But sure, we'll go with that. I know.
00:34:57
Speaker
I learned, I learned enough to be dangerous and know what a quorum means. Yeah. But no, I mean, I think a lot of it too is that, and I see this, I see it in myself and I see it in, in a lot of our EHS professionals is that because we are such a rule following, you know, field, you know, you have your rules, we have to follow them.
00:35:25
Speaker
Um, in order to be an effective communicator, we have to be able to communicate and inspire people to do the correct thing. And it's hard to do that when we're doing crime and punishment safety. And what I mean by that is that, you know, we see somebody who does something and we completely say, you know, you did it wrong. You're in trouble.
00:35:50
Speaker
that doesn't move the needle anywhere. So we have to be able to develop those soft skills that says, hey, see that there was a mistake. How can we support you in ensuring that this doesn't happen again? Can we change a policy? Can we change a procedure? Can we offer a class? Or a simple like, hey, did you even know that this is
00:36:12
Speaker
This is not the preferred behavior. Let's show you the right way to do something. And that's key communication. You can have it on paper. You can have computer-based training all day long, but you have to have somebody that can inspire someone to do the behavior that you want them to do.
00:36:30
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. One of my one of my favorite books, if I'm going to shout out a leadership book is Brené Brown's Dare to Lead book. I love that book. Do you? Yeah, tell me which pieces stand out. I mean, there's things that I've just adopted and do based on that book, because there's certain pieces that she teaches are so formulaic.
00:36:57
Speaker
Yeah, no. It's funny that you bring that up because we just chose that from one of our leadership books. It was last year and we had a huge conversation, which is really funny because we need to get a whole bunch of senior leaderships from different backgrounds in there. And you start talking about dare to leave and everything. And it was just, it cracks me up thinking about that. So sorry, I left her in there. Ramble a bit.
00:37:24
Speaker
Um, no, I think her, her bit with what she really done was just really kind of accepting, um, where you are. And I can't remember now, um, exactly what chapter it was, but she was talking about even the principles of leadership and, and how to kind of maintain where you are. And I remember this from our discussion that we had in that work session.
00:37:46
Speaker
is to kind of stick to where you are, but able to deliver it in a manner that still kind of goes with a more, oh, gosh, now I mean, mine's gonna be like, not compliant, but Yeah, was it that was it? She's got a piece I think about the color, the context,
00:38:06
Speaker
When you're facing a situation, the commentary, it was like four or three C's or something in order to, gosh, okay, everybody, you're just going to have to go get this book. Yeah. But it was something about, I mean, it's like taking responsibility, but it's the potential.
00:38:22
Speaker
Um, you know something about like staying true to your core, but then also um and taking that responsibility and also kind of seeing You know what the process is for for people in the development aspect of it. So it was like every even the conflicts Were opportunities for you to grow and everybody else around you to grow from a leadership standpoint I remember what you're I know what you're talking about that book one of the exercises in that book. Um
00:38:50
Speaker
has individuals determine what their core value is and then how that core value in your life
00:38:59
Speaker
can be the piece that you hold on to that directs and informs how and why you make decisions. And so you're essentially looking at all of these words. Do you remember this in the book, Elizabeth? There are all of these words and you're like, there's directions on whittling down, whittling down, whittling down until you get to your core value. And for me, the word is dignity. And that's how I approach my work.
00:39:27
Speaker
Yeah, no, I, I think that that, I think what we're talking, if I remember, cause I'm ancient, um, I feel like I'm ancient anyway. Um, the, one of the things that stuck out about with me with her book is that it really also relates back into really kind of the human performance mindset with EHS. And that was one of the things that I, we pushed out again, we were over this, maybe it was
00:39:48
Speaker
about a year ago. We pushed this out. And I also pushed this back to some of my leaders on my team and kind of went and said, hey, we're talking about human performance. And we're talking about getting down into the weeds to understand why people made the decisions that they made that resulted in what we resulted. And so some of the aspects in her book about looking at those opportunities, whether it's a positive conflict or a negative conflict, but really to determine
00:40:15
Speaker
you know, what it was that, you know, we can learn from it from either the person, whether the person internal. Anyway, I just thought it was a great connection that it was a non-human performance book, but it was really kind of adapting a lot of the human performance. Really, it really did. Yeah, it really did. And she's got a she's got a mantra called clear as kind. And so when you're redirecting someone or or you're just maybe maybe you have to say no to something.
00:40:45
Speaker
Yes. It's not making like, oh, well, I'd like to say, yeah, blah, blah, blah. No, clear is kind. Which is
Writing Skills and Sector Transitions
00:40:54
Speaker
funny. When you start talking about manager skills with it and the direct, you can be direct, but you can be cruel. You can be direct and you can be kind about it. Yes.
00:41:10
Speaker
That is, I think, a skill that just about every EHS person really should master because we continually have those conversations. Whether you're talking about senior leadership or you're talking to the person who just started. We can't skirt around.
00:41:32
Speaker
our policies and procedures, you know, but at the same time, we don't necessarily have to be, you know, what again, crime and punishment safety. Yeah, right, right, right. It doesn't yet. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Elizabeth, in the terms of skills, what do you think about, you know, we're talking about soft skills,
00:41:52
Speaker
I wouldn't say that writing and the ability to write well is a soft skill. But what do you see in terms of the written word and how that works in our career? And is that something that you talk with your mentees about as well?
00:42:12
Speaker
I do because my teenage self sitting in English class would have been like, it doesn't matter. I can get my point across my adult self.
00:42:29
Speaker
Having to work through investigations, having to work with legal teams, having to work with government agencies, all this sort of things, really seeing how that one paragraph that was kind of sloppily written, but maybe the measurements were correct, can have a positive or negative impact on what we're trying to accomplish.
00:42:50
Speaker
Writing skills are critical. They really, they really are, you know, almost a mandatory job function and everybody comes from diverse backgrounds. Everybody comes from different education levels and that is
00:43:06
Speaker
A, okay, but we can't skip over that key function, just because it's critical for us to be clear and concise and kind and put it in a level where people can understand. And it's really funny because we've got, throughout my career, I've worked with people who are far more intelligent than I am.
00:43:34
Speaker
Same far more on so many levels. Uh, but if they're going to send you an email, it's practically a dissertation. Um, and it's written as if I too have a PhD and whatever, you know, and I look at, I'm like, this is great, but I need you, I need you to, to dumb it down for me. You know,
00:43:57
Speaker
And not that it has to be so simple, but you have to be respectful about who your audience is. That's right. And you know, it's not just about language, but it's, it's the level that we do and it has to be understandable.
00:44:13
Speaker
Yeah, making no assumptions on what your audience may or may not know about the topic you're trying to educate or inform on. Yeah, we could do some phenomenal training that's got tons of big words and all sorts of stuff. It's not going to go anywhere. It's not going to be impactful.
00:44:31
Speaker
Um,
Mentorship and Legacy in EHS
00:44:32
Speaker
and so the written word is, is critical. And then I tell everybody, you know, on my team, I said, if it is attached to the company, the company owns it. And that means that the company can call upon it at any time. And so that's how, that's how the company is going to see you. Yeah.
00:44:52
Speaker
So if you're full of emojis, and I'm an emoji person, I will put a smiley face on an email and a heartbeat. But if you're communicating, you know, like it's a text message, you know, then just, you know, that may be called into court. Yeah, you're an extension of the brand and you're absolutely, that's absolutely right. Yeah, I think my hardest writing lesson going from government sector to private sector was
00:45:22
Speaker
Well, one of the hardest lessons was with the written word. You know, going from being able to write documentation that would stand up in court and that would support a citation and would make the attorneys generals that I worked with go, thanks Jill, you can do such a great job with documentation. And you're like, yay.
00:45:44
Speaker
And then you go into private sector and my first email I got from a boss was less words, three bullet points. Tell me if we're ahead behind or on the curve. Yep. And I'm like, oh crap.
00:46:00
Speaker
So it's funny that you say that going back to the OSHA standpoint. So my boss from OSHA who I love and adore, but he was tough love.
00:46:16
Speaker
Um, you would go on an investigation that could last days, weeks, months, you know, depending on what it was, you would spend days, weeks, not quite a month. You had, you did have that. Um, you did have a timeframe. Yeah. We'll just say long hours. Um, long hours.
00:46:36
Speaker
putting your heart and soul into this investigation you made me retired before you know make sure that every made down to the You know millimeter of inches and all of your facts are and you're clicking all the boxes and it's just you know because you're writing this with the mind frame that this is gonna go to court and you're gonna have to testify it and all the details have to be there even though every case never did all of that yes, we did and you turn it in and we would turn him to him to review it and
00:47:05
Speaker
And you would put it in a folder, no folder on his desk, and he would just look at you and go, I'll review it and get it back to you. And you're like, okay. The next morning you would walk in and you would open up that folder. And I swear it was like a chainsaw massacre.
00:47:24
Speaker
He would have a red pen and he always did it in red because you had to print it all out. Yeah. Yes. So, um, all of my, all of my environmentalists, I apologize. We would have to print it all out in a folder and they were just, you know, at the beginning of my career, you know, it'd be these little lines out of these sentences and maybe a question on the side, like add this or no, don't word it that way and all that sort of stuff. And,
00:47:51
Speaker
And so the you know, it's because like okay, he's teaching i'm gonna learn this i'm gonna get the hang of it I learned real quickly that there was never going to be a report that went through him without some red on it some way or another Yeah, and as my career progressed I would get these reports back and it would just be like a two paragraphs just circled And on the side of it, it would have wtf
00:48:16
Speaker
And so I'm having to go back and reread these two paragraphs trying to figure out what was it? What portion of this? Is it one sentence? And it used to drive me insane.
00:48:35
Speaker
But again, going back to the written word, it really, really taught me, you know, what is important? What is not important? What is just noise that doesn't get it? What's critical? And then yeah, coming back into the private sector, you know, yeah, what's our bullet points? What's our KPIs? Are we on target? That's right. So that's right. Yeah.
00:49:00
Speaker
Yeah. This is wonderful, Elizabeth. Absolutely wonderful. As we start to close out our time today, are there thoughts that you'd like to leave the audience with?
00:49:18
Speaker
I think really, you know, one, I just want to say thank you for inviting me on here to talk to you. I absolutely am just, I'm on cloud nine. But then two, one of the things I love so much about your podcast in particular, and I kind of talked about this in the beginning, is
00:49:34
Speaker
realizing this is our community of peers and good days bad days we've all had them but it's such it's such a refresher and really really encouraging for me that we we continue to to come together as a peer group and
00:49:50
Speaker
Um support each other through through the good days through the bad days through the lessons learned because again I am not the smartest person in the room and never want to be um because I want to be able to continue to learn and um from everyone else and so I just um Take a moment to look to see what you're leaving behind I guess that's because i'm i'm in that transition phase of of you know My my years that i'm going to be left
00:50:14
Speaker
working is a lot shorter than once the years that I've been in working so far. And so, yeah, I mean, what are we leaving behind? What are we what are we leaving for the next generation? And I think if we continue to focus on that, I think we're going to be setting this next group up pretty good. Hmm, beautiful. Well said. Thank you so much. And it's been a joy to have you on the show. Thank you.
00:50:37
Speaker
Thank you. And thank you all for spending your time today. And more importantly, thank you for your contribution toward the common good. May your employees and those we influence know that our profession cares deeply about human well-being, which is at the core of our practice. If you aren't subscribed and want to hear past and future episodes, you can subscribe on iTunes, the Apple Podcast app, or any other podcast player you'd like.
00:51:02
Speaker
We'd love it if you could leave a rating and review us on iTunes. It really helps us connect the show with more and more safety and health professionals like Elizabeth and I. Special thanks to Emily. That's the next E I'm talking about. Special thanks to Emily Gould, our podcast producer. And until next time, thanks for listening.