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GSD Episode 15: Fulbright Specialist Program
26 Plays14 days ago
Kelvin, Kevin, and Fritz talk in-depth about their experiences with the Fulbright Specialist Program. This unique program offers experts and practitioners in a wide variety of fields in and beyond higher education the opportunity to travel abroad to exchange knowledge and practices with institutions and organizations outside of the United States during a two- to six-week engagement. We provide insights about navigating the application process as well as locating and securing engagements.
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast and Hosts
00:00:15
Speaker
I'm Fritz Vandover.
00:00:23
Speaker
sort of getting stuff done in higher education um fritz vanover with as always Kelvin Bentley and Kevin Schreiner. Today it is just gonna be the three of us because we have a topic we'd like to talk about and we all have in common.
What is the Fulbright Specialist Program?
00:00:39
Speaker
So today we're gonna at least start talking about the Fulbright Specialist Program, um which is something Kelvin and I have done over the past say 15-ish plus years. And Kevin is also queued up to, and he is part of this program. So, um I think what I could do is and Kelvin you and I can you know share this but we'll talk a little about what the program is what makes it really compelling and frankly worth talking about today, and then we can. ah
00:01:12
Speaker
get into it so.
Structure and Application Process Overview
00:01:15
Speaker
A basic overview of the Fulbright Specialist Program. So it's part of the Fulbright Program that comes out of the US Department of State. So what it is, it's not the full blown Fulbright Program that you often hear about where on an undergrad goes somewhere for a year after they finish their bachelor's degree or um a faculty member or professor expert in a field goes abroad for a year to an institution to teach, et cetera. So the Fulbright Specialist Program is...
00:01:44
Speaker
a program where you go up, you go somewhere up for up to six weeks and you provide expertise and insights to an institution in ah a country that frankly, the US has relationships with. So you can't go to Cuba and you can't go to Libya um or some other places North Korea.
00:02:04
Speaker
But, um and it's not just for for x professors, the faculty and academics. it is also open to really anyone, but anyone who has expertise. So it could be an artist. It can be, you know, someone who is staff members in higher education. So the idea is that you're going to provide a service to an institution in another country.
00:02:34
Speaker
And I think this is, It's the most brilliantly structured program. So I was in, ah how do I explain
How to Apply and Connect with Institutions
00:02:43
Speaker
this? So instead of applying to say, i want to go here and I want to do it next year, you apply to be on a roster based on your expertise. So do you have expertise in agriculture or education or whatever it might be, social sciences, of humanities field, and you apply to be on the roster for the program. And then if you are selected to be on the roster, then you're on the roster for, I think now it three, you're on the the roster for three years.
00:03:13
Speaker
And once you're on the roster, Then they it's it's this is the brilliant part to me is that they have a little I call the marketplace of projects. So let's say the ah university in Cambodia wants wants them to come in and and provide either to teach some courses or maybe provide some workshops on student success or admissions or.
00:03:39
Speaker
you can You can imagine, or you know to provide expertise and workshops on the and the agricultural project that the university coordinates. So they will, so their and the US Embassy, they'll arrange work with their local US Embassy and the embassy will send this project request over. And then as a roster member, you get to log into the gearre to the site and look like, oh, this is an interesting project. I'm a good fit for that. So you you know you signal your interest, maybe write an essay or two, et cetera. And then you know the details get worked out if if it looks like a good fit. And you work with the Fulbright staff on that.
00:04:14
Speaker
the other way and this is how i did mine so i was i was selected in early 20 2015 i was added to the roster so i started and i don't know if this is your experience kelvin but i started just cold call emailing international relations offices and institutions around where i was interested in going so around europe or south america places like that and so you can go out and and you know, beat the pavement and find a project because what happened was I had a discussion with with the University of Dubrovnik in Croatia.
00:04:50
Speaker
They were really interested having someone come in and do workshops about teaching online. They were also really wanted someone to come help them figure out how they could offer Hale- online programs that fit their mission and their expertise, they have a big lot of expertise in maritime maritime sciences, but also training, you know, people who are captains of ships so cruise ships et etc that's a long tradition there hundreds of years of tradition at the university there so.
00:05:18
Speaker
found some traction. So I worked with who became my project sponsor, a professor named Matu Brodovich in media studies. And then he we so he sent the materials to the US Embassy in Zagreb, and then it got worked up the chain. And so you can structure programs once you're in the roster I suppose even when you're, well, let's just say once you're in the roster. and So it's it's this great two-way, you know, there's multiple avenues to it. But by yeah having a roster instead of you just apply to be a project or you propose a project, um it allows for some time to bring these things together. So this is the 10-year anniversary. Ten years ago right now, i was in Croatia University of Brovnik.
00:06:02
Speaker
was there from March 1st to April 15th in 2016. So a lot of things are popping up in social media for me of like, hey, you're here 10 years ago. And there's pictures of me and my wife and my kids came. um I arranged for that to happen, which was awesome. They were very welcoming of that. The university was said, oh, of course, yes, we'd love we'd love for you all to be here.
00:06:23
Speaker
So that's a quick overview of the program. So, like I said, Kelvin also was in the roster and did a project, believe in Columbia. and then Kevin recently was selected to be in the in the roster just in the last six months, I think, right?
00:06:39
Speaker
and it's I think I just hit my first year. Okay.
Experiences in the Application Process
00:06:45
Speaker
So Kelvin, let's talk about first of what was your experience like? Let's go back in time because yours was before my experience 10 years ago.
00:06:55
Speaker
So Kelvin, take us back. ah Well, yeah. So, you know, it's interesting that you said that you're celebrating your 10th anniversary. You know, for me, I did, i was on the roster in 2010. So this September, it'll be 16 years.
00:07:17
Speaker
um And so, know, you know it was it was an interesting process because i don't know if you experienced this, but when I applied, it was very like it was very focused on your discipline, right? So like you know my my background is in clinical psychology. i initially was you know an assistant professor at a couple of different institutions, tenure track.
00:07:46
Speaker
um But by the time that I applied, i had started ah more of my career around supporting online learning programs. And so i had to make kind of a case that even though my doctorate wasn't in education, that really what I wanted to do was actually like do some type of project related to online education, right? Like a faculty development project where I could actually like work with faculty to help them teach their online courses better, right? Have them think about best practices and those types of things. And so
00:08:29
Speaker
Yeah. Well, my question, Kelvin, is did you get any push pushback during the application process? Did someone say, well, you don't have a background in this. You're clinical psychologist. Yeah, so what I can share with you from what I can remember really is that when when I got feedback back on my application, I was told that the two the the two judges basically were split.
00:08:55
Speaker
So one was like, no, I don't think you know, what he is, yeah like one person basically said, I don't think he's the right fit for this program because of his psychology background, while the other person actually said no, like he was able to define the fact that he's been an administrator overseeing online learning programs. So even though he doesn't, you know, have a a doctorate or a master's in education around, you know, like,
00:09:27
Speaker
you know, being an educator that he could still, you know, support faculty given his previous roles. And so because so that judge who said that, know, the other person voted a different way because it was split, that basically allowed me to still be a part of the program because i had at least, you know, one vote in my favor, which I thought was interesting.
00:09:52
Speaker
I had a very similar experience. So e and one thing I think I feel like this is, it's a, the way I found out about the program was happenstance. So I finished my PhD in the spring of 2013. And as you both probably remember, my brain was just cooked.
00:10:11
Speaker
Like I didn't want to my brain was so cooked. Like I did my work. I worked Macalester college. I worked in educational technologies with faculty and humanities. So about the next summer of 2014, I'm finally like coming out of my mental stupor.
00:10:24
Speaker
And um i remember I started getting feisty, hungry for something, you know, i like, and what's my next thing I want to sink my teeth into? And so I was working with a ah classics professor, name is Beth Severihoven at Macalester. And, um you know, i so she was about to go on sabbatical and and I was helping her kind of prep, you know, stuff.
00:10:44
Speaker
And we were talking in our, sitting in her office and I'm like, gosh, you know, I wish there was some way for people in my world, you know, the staff, who staffel T, you know, who work in this space and work with faculty and work in higher education to do something like that. Obviously it wouldn't be a year, but she's like, you need, you should apply to the Fulbright specialist program.
00:11:06
Speaker
I said, what is this? So she said, well, her, at the time, her sister who works in student success or something to that effect in the university Colorado system, She said, oh my sister my sister's doing a project. She's going to France for six weeks to do workshops on student advising or something like that. And thought, oh, that's amazing. So I started looking into it.
00:11:29
Speaker
And so when I applied that fall of 2014, like I said, I'd just finished my doctorate year before. i got the I remember the program, not the program director, but you know you know the a program lead emailed me back saying,
00:11:46
Speaker
I don't think you're a good candidate because you've you know you've only recently finished your PhD. You haven't really taught anything. You haven't published anything. you know I would, she said, I would advise you to withdraw your application.
00:11:58
Speaker
And this is one of those this is one of those key moments in one's career. and I said, well, look, i'm I'm not intending to be a professor. Like publishing is not really a factor in my field.
00:12:09
Speaker
um You know, the work, the work and what you produce is is what matters. And so I said, I have no intention of being faculty. So this is not, you're not telling me anything I don't know.
00:12:20
Speaker
But, you know, i so so I said, you know, this is the case. and And this is one of those big moments. So for people who are early, mid-career, just, I bet on myself. i was like, you know what? Let's let it ride. See what the committee says. why Why bounce myself out now? And I'm glad she didn't say, you're out.
00:12:37
Speaker
She said, it was up to me. do you want to keep going or pull your with your application? I said, no, no, let it ride. And and Sure enough, the the selection committee approved prove me. It was very satisfying when she sent that that PDF that said, you've been selected. i tried not to spike the ball at all, but i don't think, if memory serves, I didn't spike the ball, but it was really good. was it So to those early and mid-career folks who are look hearing about this, and I put it on LinkedIn from time to time, you gotta bet on yourself sometimes. So someone says,
00:13:15
Speaker
maybe you should reconsider this and there's really no harm to letting it continue. Let it ride, you know, let it rip because you you don't know what's going to happen. And that was so important because again, i got on the roster and I started moving forward. I started looking for projects. I get just, and then within,
00:13:36
Speaker
mean, it took like a good eight months to work, you know, to really have conversations and all that stuff. But, you know, eight months, nine months later, I got the email from Mato Browdovich saying, it's been approved. Congratulations. And we had a lot of work to do and a lot of layers to do with embassies and all that stuff.
00:13:53
Speaker
So, I will say I've been a reviewer for specialist applications for 10 years, ever since I was done. i still do it. It's once a quarter. i do like three three ah or four quarters a year, depending on my schedule.
00:14:08
Speaker
It's a great process. You get to learn so much what's going on out there, what people are interested in, what the demand is, and just what's going on. And so this is what you people probably have seen me post in LinkedIn is that I'm happy i do it. I'm happy to help people get through the process. I've advised a couple folks, Kevin, i think I gave you some insights in your essays.
00:14:28
Speaker
yeah So it's a really rewarding process to be a reviewer. I value it very much. I think I've gotten like ah a mug from them, you know, like a little Fulbright specialist coffee mug.
00:14:40
Speaker
And so, but yeah like bet on yourself, you know? Bet on yourself at those moments when someone's like, do you really want to do this? But there's really no doubt. There's no downside. There was no downside for me to letting it go forward.
00:14:55
Speaker
So. Yeah, that's that's actually, i mean, I'm really glad that you shared that story. And maybe, you know, for some of our listeners who are associated with the Fulbright program, you know, maybe, you know, there needs to be some ah case studies or, you know, like, I almost feel like there needs to be maybe a reminder to folks that there are outliers, like like we were at the time that we applied, right, where maybe we didn't fit their perception of what a Fulbright specialist should be, right? Yeah. I feel like they're in the lens of you're a professor and you're going go to this or you're, you know, a professor
00:15:36
Speaker
practitioner, like an artist or something. Like they had this lens, whereas our lens, our lenses is, I have this background, I have a PhD. mean, this is my expertise, but and I don't look like that. But ah it's if those things, those that's currency in our field.
00:15:54
Speaker
in higher education. So maybe they've too, I mean, I've been trying to, in my, the way I give feedback through in applications is to make sure I'm making room for those folks. Cause I see a lot of great applications from people in all kinds of, you know, student advising, student coaching, faculty development and learning technologies and that kind of stuff too. So I make sure to, i make sure to make room for them.
00:16:21
Speaker
Yeah, it's great. Yeah. And and I want to plus one again, what you said too about being a reviewer. i did like after I completed my Fulbright project at the University of Antiqua and maybe in Columbia, I signed on to do that. And so it was cool to be to have that role and provide feedback on applications.
00:16:47
Speaker
And again, it's a great professional development opportunity, right? Like typically administrators, we don't get sabbaticals, right right? I mean, many of us don't, at least that was never something that was offered to me in previous administrator roles. Like, hey, you could leave and have this professional development opportunity. And I really liked the fact that it was not a year because you can't,
00:17:11
Speaker
you know For a lot of different reasons, you can't put your career as an administrator on hold for a year. so it was great to have. I think you know when I did it, I was i was in Median for about a couple of weeks.
00:17:24
Speaker
And being on the roster was very cool because, to your point, it is a marketplace. It gives you a chance to... you know, kind of explore different types of projects. And interesting enough for me, um, I was, you know, I, I know some French, but not really any Spanish. Um, and at the time that I applied, that was still the case, right? Knew a little French, uh, knew no Spanish. And, um, I, I, uh, someone reached out to me from Median to say, Hey, you, you have this background, we have some faculty that we would love for you to work with.
00:17:59
Speaker
Um, And I said, well, yeah, that would be great. But please know, I don't know any Spanish at all. Will that be an issue? And luckily, it worked out. She basically said, no, we have, you know, we'll have people to translate when needed when you give workshops and things.
00:18:17
Speaker
Please, we need you like yesterday. Please come. And so it all kind of worked out. So Kevin, talk about um if you know your application process if you want. But certainly also, I'm interested to hear what do you what kind of projects are you interested in doing? what do you I don't have access the marketplace anymore. What are you seeing in there or in other interactions you've had with potential and host institutions?
00:18:43
Speaker
Yeah. So I mean, I applied based on your LinkedIn post. You had shared it. I had never heard of Fulbright specialist. um I mean, having been at the University of Arkansas and the Fulbright College of Arts and Sciences, clearly knew what Fulbright was and the the bigger picture of Fulbright, but not but not this type of a role. So had a lot of conversations with you, ultimately submitted an application.
00:19:09
Speaker
i never heard back from anybody other than I got my letter that I was approved and accepted as a Fulbright specialist. So there was no intermediary conversations or feedback or David Price- Anything like that, and don't know if it's changed, but he had to two or three references and those two or three references, how to write letter. David Price- In support I had my provost write a letter of support and our dean of Grad studies write a letter of support. David Price- i'm not hurt I mean individually i've not heard from anybody.
00:19:42
Speaker
Price- From other schools like reaching out asking. Price- For can I help with this can of help with do that, but yeah I get the. it's every two weeks or every month you get the email that comes out that says, hey, new things have been added to the yep to the list, go and check out the list. And I go in, I look at it and and things like that.
00:20:06
Speaker
My goal, i mean, going in, i mean, I really wanted to concentrate more on the online space, trying to find a country in a school that was looking online, trying to do something and online.
00:20:20
Speaker
i even did some feeders out to Ireland schools just because I enjoy going to Ireland and if I could do some things there. ended up doing some things, but not enough that it would warrant a Fulbright specialist time to spend that time.
00:20:37
Speaker
um But it is interesting. i mean, when you get, I mean, I'm just like just pulling up the list. I mean, I think this is where I think to your points of there's so many places where people in education and probably even outside of education, I know i don't know how well they i don't know how much Fulbright looks at people that are outside, but I mean, there's one that's social work practice on family therapy between the US and India.
00:20:59
Speaker
mean, you don't necessarily have to be a social work faculty member to be able to do that social work you know project. I mean, there's seven or eight in education, environmental studies,
00:21:11
Speaker
business administration agriculture um i thought i i thought there'd be a lot more agriculture ones and there's actually there's more education and business administration type of projects than there are things outside of that but there's stuff for law um public public and global health i mean i don't think a lot of mph folks that are out there doing certain things working in private practice maybe you or even thinking about the fact that they could go do something in public health in brazil David Price- You know, so mean that I think is a like a miss I don't want to say it's a miss piece, because I don't know what what Fulbright specialist what they do you know what the department is doing to promote it but there's a lot of opportunities in here for.
00:21:56
Speaker
a lot of folks in a lot of different areas. So ah um I will say that I only get I'm only ah i only do reviews of people who are applying through their they're in the education
Opportunities and Fields in the Program
00:22:13
Speaker
bucket. So I don't see you know like law, public health, because that's what I know how to evaluate is educational thing. So but in that I do see I see artists, I see people who are language instructors. um almost like people who are community organizers. Honestly, i see those too. In addition to faculty, staff and higher education, reality roots people who have deep roots. Sometimes some of the I see ones people who've retired from faculty or staff and they want to share expertise and they have a giant, you know vast decades of expertise. So I imagine in those spaces too, you'd see
00:22:47
Speaker
I would hope that people who are say public health professionals who aren't faculty, maybe they work in county public health, whatever, non-educational settings, would know and apply to that because they have immense knowledge that's very useful. And those sound like very applied projects where ah you know it might be university but a municipality it doesn't have to be a university that hosts you but you know uh some kind of governmental unit that wants help in those different areas so yeah that's uh yeah yeah i mean and you're exactly right i mean some of these are universities some of these are national institutes in those countries um agriculture ministry of agricultural food industries of the country so mean you know it's just like our department of ag so i mean there's a yeah there's a lot that grow um
00:23:32
Speaker
And it's is' you know what's interesting is is is actually talking about this now. I mean, I'm thinking of two or three people that I know that work in industry that are in some of these spaces. It's like, i wonder if they've ever thought about doing something like this in their space and going and getting that.
00:23:52
Speaker
The agriculture one just top top of mind because I have very good friend who works with the Kansas Corn Board, and she was in Portugal. this week for for nap for international meetings um and she goes to mexico and other places like i mean like yeah i mean one of these actually is probably right up her alley to spend some time in a foreign country helping them solve one of their issues in agriculture yeah so yeah i mean i'm glad i did it i i really am glad i did it um
00:24:26
Speaker
the hardest part is just is sifting through them trying to figure out where you want to go and then this you know the four to six weeks potential of being um somewhere other than your work and then just ensuring that that that can happen and that can take place yeah so um at the time i was like i've said i it was at mccallister college on staff um what i did was well i think my boss at the time when at least i got on the roster he was kind of like
00:24:57
Speaker
well, you know, we'll have to clear that and we'll see. And I was like, yeah, I'm passing the puck where I want it. I'm going to, I did the thing where asked for forgiveness more than permission. I had it all queued up. I'm like, what are you going to do now?
00:25:09
Speaker
So yeah Kelvin's smiling his dry smile. Because I'm sure you've done the same. I've done the same thing. Ask for forgiveness. Yes. Right. Because, again, you got to bet on you. You got to bet on yourself. so But, you know, like I tapped the way that HR did, like I tapped out vacation first. And then I think I did like unpaid leave after that. Because just logistics for people listening.
00:25:40
Speaker
Here's how it works financially. The Fulbright program pays for your flight. And it pays you ah essentially per diem. then at the time that per diem was actually more than I made per week or per pay period than my job.
00:25:56
Speaker
Not substantially, maybe 10 or 15% more. So i was like, sure, I'm still gonna make income. And then the host institution or organization, they pay for your housing.
00:26:07
Speaker
And they give you a per diem for food and stuff. So, and the University Dubrovnik was very accommodating. So, they you know, they're supposed to pay for like a one bedroom or whatever equivalent. I said, well, I'm bringing my family.
00:26:20
Speaker
And they said, well well, you know, well, your housing allowance will be a one bedroom and you just pay the pay the differential. Perfect. Awesome. Worked great. And we're still friends with the people where we stayed. We had, we rented a flat from is this, uh, older couple, Leo and Teresa who became like uncle and auntie.
00:26:39
Speaker
And it was cute. Cause my son's named Leo. So big Leo and little Leo. Um, and so we still talk him. Like we went back in 2022, we stayed with them again. We still send Christmas cards that, you know, take like eight weeks to get there. So, um,
00:26:52
Speaker
So that's how it works on the financial side. So ah it's a pretty smooth arrangement, I would say, worked. It was easy to arrange and all that kind of good stuff. So um Kevin, I would encourage you to keep, you know, pecking away and reaching out to institutions because This is one thing I'm not crazy about is they reduce, it used to be that the roster was a five year window. Now it's three years. Three years, I mean, that's not that three years go fast, but when you're trying to create relationships potentially, or just waiting for something to come into the marketplace,
00:27:26
Speaker
you know, it takes time once even you respond to an either market, something in the the marketplace that comes in, or you're trying to arrange and create relationships and opportunities that, you know, that can take, like I said, mine took from first contact. It took, I think it was 10 months until it was all buttoned up and approved by the Fulbright program and the university of Duke-Morvig. So, you know, and you have to do your project within the three years. So it just, you know, three years is kind of tight, to be honest.
00:27:57
Speaker
Yeah, it has flown. I mean, it's just funny. I because you like yeah said six months, and I just pulled mine back up again to just a double check. so i was like And mine was April of 2025. So I mean, this month is a year.
00:28:09
Speaker
Wow.
00:28:12
Speaker
Wow. So yeah, i mean it's it does fly. So you both can do it again, right? like Since you've been out for so long, you both could, in theory, apply to do it again yes you have to be off the roster for at least a year probably a year and a day before you can re if it's either reapply or re-enter the roster i haven't i mean i've thought about reapplying again especially because and i've advised and i advise you and i'll just give free advice everyone not that i would charge for it anyway but as a reviewer
00:28:49
Speaker
one of the things that people sometimes fail to do, and the ones that I either press back on or rate lower or say to not recommend is, People who apply often talk more about what they've done and they're they kind of do a and CV narrative rather than talking about what could they do for a host organization or institution. What could you do?
00:29:11
Speaker
I can offer workshops on, you know, utilizing technology and pedagogy and online pedagogy or whatever your expertise is and whatever your specialty and your knowledge. They don't talk about what they could do. They talk about what they want to, like why they want to go to this country or this place or et cetera, or what they've done. Like I've taught, you know, I've been a faculty member or whatever. Like we have your CV. We see that.
00:29:34
Speaker
Talk about what you think. And it might not, it's not going to be what you do, but just envision something like I can offer this series of classes or I can provide consultation. I mean,
00:29:44
Speaker
For me, I i i think that's of the things that helped me with the committees. i I spent much of my essays talking about, especially the one that asked, what could you do?
00:29:55
Speaker
I talked about what I thought I could do. So what I ended up doing, among other things, for the University of Dubrovnik was talking to various units about You know, the how can they, they wanted an academic technologist.
00:30:09
Speaker
They didn't have budget for it. So i started looking around and say, well, you fly, you're flying in and housing people from Italy to teach courses on, they have a, they they do a lot of, they have a archaeological conservation program to conserve artifacts. You know, that region is flooded with archaeological sites and and material. And so I said, you're flying people in. Why not have some of that taught up world?
00:30:36
Speaker
And recoup that money you're spending and put that towards an academic technologies FTE. And they really appreciated that. I think someone externally saying with my host and others knew internally.
00:30:49
Speaker
And the other thing was they were like, how can we build online programs? And I was looking at, well, you have all these maritime programs and often your students are, they're already on, they're working technology. Maritime settings are out on ships.
00:31:02
Speaker
Ships have to have high and ah highb bandwidth internet connection for communication and safety. They can do online courses and online programs. They're like, this is great. So, um you know, that's the kind of stuff I envisioned is being a consultant is essentially what I said. I can be a consultant on these things. And that resonated. So,
00:31:22
Speaker
Again, I would just encourage folks who are interested in apply, talk about what you can do based on your, your expertise and your experience. Or just don't, don't talk just about, well, you know, I've done this and I've done that.
00:31:35
Speaker
Okay. Flip, you know, envision something with your expertise and those experiences. And you did that. Yeah, no, I mean, that it it was helpful when you had shared that with me to, to, to think it's almost like you're you're building your own little business, like what would you do as a business person with an entity outside the United States based on your expertise? What what would you want to go and and provide?
00:32:07
Speaker
And I think that's the best way to think about is like, i you know I would want to go do X. And and you know for me, it was a lot of thinking back to to my consulting roles and stuff. it's like, well, I could do this, I could do this, I could do this, i could and and just put all those things down there. It's like, yeah, I mean, if someone's interested in digging deeper into online, I can provide workshops. so I can um help train faculty and in pedagogy. like in And so all of that, I think, was helpful to think about things differently. Because I think we all do. we get into that mindset of it's an application.
00:32:43
Speaker
this is what you do in an application. you This is my history. this is what i've This is who I am and who I've been for the past X number of years versus reversing it and thinking about how do you sell how do you sell something of yourself that that you can provide to somebody.
00:33:00
Speaker
Which is not a normal mode for folks admittedly. And full disclosure, i did not review Kevin's application. i would have There's a recuse button, I would have had to push it, but it never came across my my slate when you applied. So just want to get that out there that I helped him with his essays, but I did not then put my thumb on the scale.
00:33:22
Speaker
You know, I forgot to share this story, too, about my Fulbright. Like, um so I get to to Columbia um and they put me up actually in ah in a hotel that's not too far away from the campus. But because I don't know Spanish, i it led to kind of an interesting interaction with the person who was sent there to kind of provide the stipend, because you mentioned,
Logistics, Funding, and Travel Considerations
00:33:48
Speaker
you know,
00:33:49
Speaker
the the the funding for this. And i just remember getting a knock at my door. um and I think I got a text saying someone was going to come over and and we didn't, you know, he didn't speak English. and I didn't know other than Musto, Musto Goose you know, or whatever. i didn't really know much Spanish. So I just remember him having like money Right. and literally He counted out write the money on ah on the tables and and that was it. That that was my my so you know my stipend for the two weeks or so that I was there. So it was just interesting. It was an interesting interaction. That's cool for me. um I get to open a ah local bank account.
00:34:35
Speaker
to get to receive my ah my my per diem from them and the ah you know the housing allowance. So I was walked over to, because Dubrowick is a very walkable city. We walked from the building where everything was with a staff member. can't remember her name, but we...
00:34:55
Speaker
walked to a bank and I opened an account because and English is commonly spoken, but it was not there. So she was my translator and my my guide. But yeah, so that was like that taxi was like, do you have a foreign bank account? i was like, yes, I closed it.
00:35:13
Speaker
um And boy, yeah, like, Man, they have such good food there. I just remember I was up because it was the dollar is strong and it's very strong there. They're still on the they were on the Kuna at that point still. And so, you know,
00:35:31
Speaker
I ate a lot of strudel yabuka, which is apple and vishnia, which is cherry. like I was at like one or two a day because there was a little coffee shop, 100 yards walk outside of the building. So I you know i get my my sandwich shunka, which is a ham sandwich, a little baguette and a strudel yabuka and off I'd go back to my office.
00:35:55
Speaker
It was tough. It was real tough, let me tell you. yeah so I'm not getting too in the weeds, but just just being an international traveler and and the questions you get asked when you go through customs right are you here on vacation are you here for work like so so do did you guys have to get in every country i know is different so did you have to get visas did you have to get work visas did you just say i'm a tourist did you say you were And and i get and i don't know maybe I don't know how you want to answer but I'm just curious. That's actually a really good question. Because my Fulbright was so long ago, I don't i don't remember, but i don't I don't think I had to do like a formal visa. I may have shown like an email that kind of described the Fulbright project that I was going to be starting.
00:36:46
Speaker
Yeah. um And because I was only in country for, you know, up to two weeks, I think that also helped. Yeah. Wasn't past the extended stay period. Right. Correct.
00:36:57
Speaker
Yeah. So. um But yeah, but it was a great experience. so The people there were so nice, again, for not being a native Spanish speaker, people did try to work with me as best they could. i went to a couple of restaurants where they gave me, you know, the English menu without kind of a scowl, right? Cause they were just trying to help. and And i did use, I think that was from one of the first times I remember also experimenting cause it, I think it was just made available like Google translate a little bit, trying to to use it on on my, on my, uh,
00:37:36
Speaker
whatever iPhone I had back then. um And so that that that helped. but But, you know, personally, i just, I felt, don't know, very self-conscious about the fact that I didn't know enough Spanish to to kind of reciprocate those who are trying to speak to me in their best English, which was definitely much better than my weak attempt at trying to to communicate with them. So, um but again, i mean, I wish I had Duolingo back then, at least then I could have practiced a little bit with some basic phrases. Yeah. um
00:38:13
Speaker
But it's it it was a great experience and it really, it I don't know how the both of you feel, but i it was it was a very, it was cool being you know in a new country, but I think it almost helped me to think about um online learning, academic innovation more broadly. like because that ah Because for me, i was so focused on you know working at this community college or this university, and and it was kind of cool to see similar issues and challenges
00:38:47
Speaker
you know, outside of the bubbles that I've lived in, right? Like it actually helped to remind me that regardless of the of the school and where where it's physically located, I mean, we're all kind of dealing with similar challenges, right? In terms of, um you know, not everyone having, you know, easy access to the technology or faculty resistance to using it for various reasons. And so,
00:39:17
Speaker
Yeah, it was it was it was it was a good eye-opener and a good reminder to to, when you can, step outside of your usual today, you know everyday work, try to talk with people outside of your college or university or your system to really kind of understand the bigger picture of what's going on around, you know again, academic innovation type projects. Yeah.
00:39:44
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it's almost like study abroad for professionals. Yes. Really? Yeah. I mean, that's a great, great point. To your initial question, Kevin, Croatia was just about to join the EU at that point. So they, I just looked it up. They joined July 1st, 2013. So, ah oh, wait, wait, sorry.
00:40:02
Speaker
That was when my son was born. So they're already in the EU. So I didn't need a visa. Yeah. Because you know it's less than 90 days, so the tourist visa was fine. And I didn't have to say, no one even, i don't think anyone even asked me, like, why are you here?
00:40:14
Speaker
um So after that, though, I mean, you know getting into what Kelvin was talking about, Croatian is a, the good thing is it's in the Roman alphabet.
00:40:30
Speaker
Roman numerals, Roman alphabet, Latin numbers. Am I mixing it up? you know It's our alphabet. So I got really good at speaking Croatian. I just really didn't know everything I was saying. so But every you know English is such a common language because they're part of the EU. They're in a program called, I believe it's around the Erasmus program. So it was basically a way to easily move between, for students to easily move between post-secondary institutions in the EU. So they had...
00:40:58
Speaker
You know, exchange students galore. So English was the common language. So that was never a problem. But, you know, to what you're saying, Kelvin, i I just think it's not and it's not the easiest thing to do, but as a professional in higher education, not faculty, but as a professional.
00:41:16
Speaker
non you know and a staff person i think it's really if possible to break out of the orbit of u.s higher education discourse so i went the the fall of 2015 so this is before the fulbright project was coming together for me but in october or early november of that year i went to a i i proposed and got a presentation accepted to a educational technologies conference in Spain. It's called ICERI, I-C-E-R-I.
00:41:47
Speaker
Really great experiences in Sevilla in November, which is beautiful. There were people i was US participants and attendees were far in the minority. There were people from Australia and Asia and Europe, Africa. It was a really great experience.
00:42:01
Speaker
So between that conference and then going to the Fulbright specialist experience, I really had it was a It was a quick but really intense and very important education because, you know, I'm learning, i was especially Dubrovnik, I was learning things that we just are not as common and common here. So, um you know, University of Dubrovnik, it's small. I mean, it's 2,000-ish students.
00:42:31
Speaker
They don't have dorms. And this is not something you hear much They have no student housing. they were They were trying to build a very small dorm, but you know it's a very landlocked, not landlocked,
00:42:41
Speaker
ah let's call it buildable land up of constrained city. It's on the ocean, but it's um basically on a hillside. So it goes straight up out of the water.
00:42:52
Speaker
There's not a lot of easy real estate. It's also very intense tourist destination, one of the most intense in the world. So, you know, during this academic year, students can find housing, but in the summer, you know, everything that's available to rent out to tourists is rented out so like holding summer classes is really difficult for them so this is not something i would you hear much about in the states i mean i'm sure some cities but they often you know like they have housing for the most part anyway so it was things like that you know and um talking to the administrators i got i did i met with a vice rector was like a vice president and then ah the rector or is the president institution i
00:43:33
Speaker
just talking to them a lot about what their constraints are and then talking to IT people about like how they provision Moodle and how they support it. And it was just ah it was a whirlwind education that really helped me.
00:43:46
Speaker
think it helped me become a better listener as I, worked at institutions uh after mccallister and still at mccallister so i came back and helped me and then i went to the university of minnesota and worked in educational technologies and it just it helped me be a better listener particularly across cultures
00:44:07
Speaker
yeah yeah i i think that's i think that's right um and i felt very similarly like you like for me too, like with some of the faculty I worked with, like some faculty knew English really well, others not so much. And so I have to try to also just,
00:44:27
Speaker
slow my process down. And, you know, because for me, I'm like, oh, yeah, we could do this. And hey, there's a quality manners rubric. And let me introduce you to that. And here are some things that you can do in Moodle because they were using Moodle as well. And and I for me, it really kind of like I realized at times I was my usual like, you know, Kelvin Bentley self kind of just spouting off all these things. And I did have to slow down a bit to really kind of, again, just to get to know them. But then because of the language barrier at times, just to, you know, kind of really slow down to really fully explain myself and to, and then also to kind of just continue to check in with them. So as I was giving certain workshops and presentations, the pacing of what I was saying, I had to, to really,
00:45:15
Speaker
you know, be mindful of that pace and making sure I wasn't talking too fast or, or in some cases explaining things like mentioning certain things, but without really going deeper to explain like more context of certain topics. So, yeah.
00:45:37
Speaker
Well, I'm really hopeful, Kevin, that you get to keep pulling the thread on this and and yeah and some kind of experience because ah your background and knowledge and expertise would be invaluable.
00:45:52
Speaker
here's my i got like got and I have an idea for you. And this is, this I'm going to throw this out to the to anyone listening, but also but to you. i would love to see a higher education market researcher expert.
00:46:06
Speaker
I'd love to see an application come across my my uh uh and you're already in the roster so i wouldn't see this but i think institutions around the globe as they look more at how to certainly for online programs but just in general how to assess the demand and the need and to uh couple it with local and regional labor market needs. And ah look, a lot of institutions abroad do this better than the ones in the state or states already. But I just think for that was something I was asked to do 10 years ago. And I hear people, you know, trying, i get inquiries occasionally from institutions abroad, like, how do we do this? You do it in the States. So just to to provide, even just to look at, look, here's how we do it in the US. Do you have similar, like we have iPads.
00:46:59
Speaker
You know, like, is there is there an IPEDS equivalent across, say, the EU or ah that span and span institutions in in Asia across country, you know, national boundaries?
00:47:14
Speaker
Not that that's the only way we assess market demand, but, you know, we have all these things because the U.S. has... our department of education is huge and everyone feeds their data in, and then we have, you know, department of labor statistics. So like that's, they really, those things span our economy in a way, not just our educational sector, but, and that's a big anchor or a big foundation of how we assess demand is these tools that look at educational outcomes as well as labor, current and future labor possibilities.
00:47:47
Speaker
So I just, I think that would be a ah ah very rich area, uh, which someone like you could provide really valuable expertise. No, I appreciate that. and And it's, what's interesting is I follow a lot of what happens in Ireland and the UK.
00:48:06
Speaker
Um, and they do have a higher ed system where a lot of that stuff. And what's interesting is the things that, that they report. are things that we're not reporting yet and vice versa. There's things that we report that they're not reporting on. And i so I think sometimes I think there's just good, there's good data coming out of that. I mean, i make comparisons all the time to what's happening with UK and online trends that is being seen there compared to the US trends in online. and
00:48:38
Speaker
But they do a much better job of denoting the fact that there's u.s citizens taking their courses we don't say there's you know people from ireland taking our courses or great britain or india or like we just say international like we just have this big lump i mean you can get like yeah you can't but but not through ipad you can't get through through right it's like i have access to that university of minnesota as i do analysis and of programs i can see like oh this I do, you know, I can see like, oh this is a student from this state yeah or this country, et cetera, et cetera.
Impact and Cross-Cultural Learning Benefits
00:49:12
Speaker
But, and I shouldn't say it's a one-way thing. Like all the expertise is one way from us to other institutions. There are insights and ways. Oh, think there's a ton. that other way. That feed would feedback, like you just said. Yeah.
00:49:24
Speaker
Yeah. that would be invaluable and it was a way to push policy in the US educational policy and posting. I mean, I think it's crazy that iPads doesn't capture enrollments by s SIP code because then you got to do all this guesswork. Join the club.
00:49:40
Speaker
Oh, drives me nuts. um And it's, you know, it would be easy to do. there theres There's a plug for the International Distance Education Benchmarking Project. That's exactly what we're doing is capturing the IP codes.
00:49:52
Speaker
so i think I got a guy and it works there. I know. Yeah, I know a guy. I get to touch with somebody. yeah I know. and I know someone. Yeah. yess i'm glad you got I'm glad we had this conversation today about this because I think its it is. It's one of those things that I think most people don't know about. And I think everybody hears Fulbright and they think the same thing that everybody thinks about Fulbright. I don't get to do that. right Yeah. It's, oh my gosh, that person got the prestigious Fulbright and going spend a year in
00:50:23
Speaker
David Price- Saigon doing du which is great great right, I mean i not nothing against the the the but there's nothing wrong, mean I caught the baby Fulbright like there's nothing wrong with this this the subs.
00:50:39
Speaker
of of the Fulbright work that's being done and for opportunities for people. Having the word Fulbright on your CV never hurt anybody. Yeah. Brand recognition, right? And I don't doubt it ever, but in certain contexts with, especially with faculty, you know, i don't put it on my, it's not in my email tail, but if they look me up, they'll see it. And I, cause it that's important. That's, that's, yeah.
00:51:06
Speaker
signals credibility, you know, that your staff, but you're not so different than them that you can't provide competent, credible insights and support.
00:51:16
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And I've had faculty tell me that. I mean, when I was at the point we've talked about this before, like, man, when I was in the dark days of trying to finish my dissertation, just my research, and I'm, you know,
00:51:28
Speaker
We're having babies and we built a house. I'm like, why am I doing this? I'm so tired. And I remember talking to another classics professor, Ed McAllister, Andy Overman, who was such a great friend and mentor. he I said, does this is this really matter?
00:51:43
Speaker
think when I finished, I was like, does this matter? And in your world with faculty, he's like, hell yes, it does. It matters. yeah Because it shows you can carry a large research enterprise through years.
00:51:56
Speaker
And that's one thing that we do. And for you to say, the for this to show that you did that increases your credibility and and the trust that we have with you to do right by us in this technology space that a lot of us are skeptical of, rightfully so, i would say.
00:52:13
Speaker
So that was huge. So Andy, if you're listening, i don't know if you are, i really appreciate you having said that and i hope you're well. Yeah, it'll be interesting too, right? With with such a focus on AI, work-based learning initiatives, especially AI though, like I wonder to what extent, um like if we, given, and maybe Kevin, you can tell us as you're you know looking at the rosters too, like, will we start seeing schools look for someone with some ai background and training
00:52:45
Speaker
if anything, just to help the institution strategically think about how they leverage the use of AI in courses or maybe operationally that support the business. Yeah. I mean, it's been interesting, the number of AI ones. I mean, just in the seven education ones, there's three that are specifically AI.
00:53:06
Speaker
Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Responsible use of AI, artificial intelligence, um
00:53:14
Speaker
use a Spanish word, I'm not for sure what it means. um And then there's a capacity, AI capacity building. And just generally, these clumping in certain continental places, Europe, Africa, salt South America, etc.
00:53:30
Speaker
um So one is one is in
00:53:38
Speaker
I gotta to find it Slovak Republic. um The other one is in Brazil. And the other one's in India.
00:53:49
Speaker
Interesting. Wow. Yeah, I haven't seen ah an application yet. i haven't, I think I'm a cycle off, like I didn't do last quarter, but I haven't seen anyone specifically invoke AI in their application materials yet. But I'm assuming the next time i you know, raise my hand to to do reviews, I bet you I'll see it now.
00:54:10
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, the Slovak one is interesting. Responsible use of AI in scientific research and graduate education. mean, that's a real, I mean, that's that is a very much someone who's on the professional side of thinking through a lot of that. I mean, it can also be faculty side too, but I mean, that's, we would have thought I mean, I wouldn't have thought that.
00:54:35
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Maybe I'll look at that one. Yeah. Why not? A little bit out my wheelhouse, but... Hey, bet on you.
00:54:47
Speaker
Bet on me. Yeah. I mean, what's the worst they'll say? No. That is true. And that's frankly, that's the Fulbright Specialist staff's role is to help. They help carry that conversation. If you say, I'm interested in this, they'll help figure that out, right? So it's not all on you to figure that out. So...
00:55:04
Speaker
Well, this has been a really fun discussion, gentlemen. Yeah, yeah i'm I'm really glad that we had it. It's interesting, like, other than a couple colleagues, because one is deeply involved in in the Fulbright program, I don't really get a chance to talk about this with folks. And so this was also very helpful for me, too. So thank you.
00:55:28
Speaker
And i will, you know, when we put this on LinkedIn, we'll, and in the description, we'll put a link to the Fulbright Specialist Program. um If I may, Kelvin and Kevin, I would encourage listeners to to reach out to either of us because...
00:55:45
Speaker
We've all made it through at least to the roster. yeah We've gotten over. that's a I'd say that's a big hump. like That's the only hump where your're you're ah not tested, but you know like should you be in here or not kind of question. Once you get in through the into the roster, then it's an open, you know it's a level playing field as far as ah it's equal opportunity, I would say.
00:56:07
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. so Well, I hope you both have a really great weekend. Yeah, you too. You as well. I'm going to New Orleans next week, and I'm not afraid to say it for the Upsea Annual Conference.
00:56:21
Speaker
And I'm very excited. Have fun. I will miss seeing both of you there. know, Kevin, you are potentially going to go Kelvin, you and I have done things in New Orleans. Yeah. made various choices before and I will miss you there too. Just bring a suit coat because right, some of the restaurants do require you to dress up That's right. We went to Galatoire's and I don't think I had a coat. So, and I think, don't think you did in the, and the major deal was like, oh, you look like a 41 long, you know, they have a whole closet full of them, you know, navy blue, of course, but. And they were nice and not like itchy. So it was all good.
00:56:59
Speaker
They were very comfortable. All right, gentlemen, I'll talk to you all soon. And to everyone else, thank you for joining us on getting stuff done in higher ed. And we'll talk to you again. Well, you'll hear from us again soon.
00:57:10
Speaker
Take care.