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GSD Episode 6: Dr. Nick Pace
21 Plays15 days ago
Kevin and Fritz talk to Dr. Nick Pace, whose career has taken him from teacher, to principal, to faculty member, to his new role as Dean of the College of Education at the University of Kentucky. Nick provides some very useful insights about how to step into a leadership role as well as the special meaning of buckeyes (the seed, not the university in Ohio...) in his family.
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Transcript
Podcast Introduction
00:00:20
Speaker
Hi everyone, and welcome to this episode of Getting Stuff Done in Higher Education. um I am one of the co-hosts, Kevin, and joined always by Fritz and Kelvin.
Guest Introduction: Nick Pace
00:00:32
Speaker
And today we have the great opportunity to meet with Nick Pace, who is currently the Dean of Education at the University of Kentucky. Welcome, Nick. Thank you for joining us.
00:00:43
Speaker
Thank you. happy and we're Happy to be invited and yeah, really appreciate the invitation. Glad to be with you. Great.
Creating a Relaxed Environment
00:00:50
Speaker
So we're pretty loose and relaxed in in this environment. we're not This is really an opportunity for you to kind of Really just tell some stories of things that you want to talk about. But I was sharing with everybody else because I just think it's fascinating. It's not fascinating.
00:01:05
Speaker
It's who you are. But you're what? six 6'10"? six ten Oh, my God. I am. Yeah. Yeah. yeah um People, when I meet people outside of the Zoom screen, yeah, they will often say, geez, I didn't realize you were so tall. And I say, well, yeah, the rectangle doesn't capture that.
00:01:25
Speaker
Yeah, it's like you walk down the hallway with Nick and and i'm I'm like, I'm 5'11". I'll call myself six foot. But you're like this. Fire, fire, just looking up. like Well, no yeah, people don't always anticipate that the tall man from the circus is coming the
Nick's Basketball Background
00:01:42
Speaker
movie.
00:01:42
Speaker
Yeah. do Do you still get approached by you know and NBA or Major League Baseball scouts? like Can you just give me like three pitches over an eighth inning? No, no exactly zero scouts.
00:01:54
Speaker
um But especially here in UK basketball country, it is a very common question, not did you play, but where?
00:02:07
Speaker
Yeah. Oh yeah, I bet. So yeah, that is a that is a common question. I did attend undergrad at the University of Northern Iowa on a basketball scholarship and had a terrific experience. And so i do do have that do have that background and that is a really wonderful, fun part of being here at the University of Kentucky because it's such a blue blood basketball environment.
00:02:34
Speaker
did did you Did you have any inklings of wanting to go beyond college ball? So i ah yes, I, uh, tore the ligaments in my right ankle on January 21st of my senior year.
00:02:53
Speaker
And that sort of made that part of the season a little bit, a little bit more difficult. Um, cause I didn't, you know, I didn't have kind of the finish to the college, you know, career that, that, you know, maybe would help that along.
00:03:08
Speaker
I did have a tryout in the August after I graduated with a professional team in Finland. And so I tell people i was I was a pro for like eight days.
00:03:21
Speaker
Went over, had to try out. I wasn't in great shape because at that point I thought I was going to grad school and I you know had kind of pivoted and changed plans.
00:03:32
Speaker
And then my college team actually was on a Scandinavian tour and my my college coach, Eldon Miller, a fabulous human being and great mentor and just a terrific man, called and said, hey, we're we're in this city in Finland and they're looking for looking for a post player.
00:03:52
Speaker
You need to get over here. And so I did. And yeah they took a better they took a better player and I got eight days in Helsinki and Latte, Finland.
00:04:06
Speaker
So yeah, it was a very brief, a very brief on the edge of true professional career. Well, did you at least qualify for the pension? Just kidding.
00:04:17
Speaker
No. Boy, that is the thing. Boy, make that – yeah, get the league minimum and qualify for the pension and then and then now go do what you want to do. If my teammates were on the call um or listening or tuning in, they would say, okay, let's be real.
00:04:35
Speaker
You were not going to be a pro anywhere at any point. But they're not here, and I am. – so
00:04:44
Speaker
You're a pro and and pro and our in our minds, Nick. There you go.
Transition to University of Kentucky
00:04:49
Speaker
So you've recently transitioned to University of Kentucky, um currently Dean of Education. um So how's it going? You know, it's been a really good a really good transition. I started on July 1st,
00:05:08
Speaker
and my last official day at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln was June 12th. So we had a couple of weeks in there to sort of unpack and explore a little bit and and get our wits about us.
00:05:21
Speaker
It's been really good. People have been generous and patient and kind and forgiving and all of the things that are helpful, you know, when you're a new person, kind of starting at the, you know, the bottom of that Maslow's hierarchy of needs, you know, just the basic stuff, where do I park and who does this and how do you get an outside phone line and you know, those, those coffee, where's the coffee?
00:05:47
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Uh, but it's been great. Uh, this is a, this is a terrific, um, a terrific college, a very proud college.
University's Mission and Focus
00:05:57
Speaker
Um,
00:05:59
Speaker
The University of Kentucky really leans hard into serving the Commonwealth. And President Capilouto and others talk about how does this institution help Kentuckians be healthier, wealthier, and wiser.
00:06:17
Speaker
and how does this institution advance Kentucky together? and And so um even just you know in my 93 days or so here, i I see lots of examples of that. And um that focus or you know that that purpose was it was a big was a big draw here for me. um um I'm really excited about that.
00:06:45
Speaker
about that part of the role. And I really believe that much of the future of public higher ed depends on how well we support folks in the Commonwealth and how well we take the research and scholarship and creative activity that happens here at a really terrifically high level all the time.
00:07:14
Speaker
And how do we put that in hands, put that in the hands of somebody in Paducah or, you know, Georgetown or or wherever on a Thursday afternoon so they can do something with it.
00:07:28
Speaker
And, you know, whether that's a teacher or, you know, coaches or exercise scientists, people, folks folks working in the front office of a, of an athletic team or a YMCA or a community health organization.
00:07:46
Speaker
We've, we've, we've really got to bridge that theory to practice. Which, I mean, what you're saying is, um you know, you're at land grant institution.
00:07:58
Speaker
so my actually, I think we all are effectively. all um that is the mission of land grant institutions you know where i work at the university of minnesota nick uh work in moral hall which is where the provost office the president's office and every day i walk in depending which door i go and there's a copy of the moral act yeah on the wall and then sometimes i stop and read it because not the whole thing but you know i read through it because i'm like oh yeah what does it say in a time when um People are, the you know, the value of higher ed is in in flux and in question.
00:08:30
Speaker
Excuse me, someone's calling me. um It's good to reflect on that. Why are we here? And it it back then, 1862, it says the same thing. We're here for the states in which we are situated, to do practical things like agriculture and science and to educate people. Yeah, but those very practical, pragmatic things. So I think you're spot on is that focusing on pragmatic activities that helped Commonwealth, help the state, help the region
00:09:01
Speaker
um is a is a very prudent path to showing value to the communities and the places in which we are situated. Yeah, I i really...
00:09:13
Speaker
Yeah, i couldn't i couldn't agree with you more. I just, I think that that that focus um really helps us counter some of those questions about, well, what is the purpose of higher ed? What's the actual value you know of of ah of a college education?
Preparing Future Educators
00:09:35
Speaker
and and I, one of the things that attracted me to the position here at the University of Kentucky was the number of times in the position description that I read things like holistic for, with, and through.
00:09:57
Speaker
And I actually, when I made it to the campus interview stage, I took the position description and I put it in a word cloud because I wanted to like confirm that they weren't just words that were jumping out at me because that's what I wanted to read or that's what I, you know, my eye was drawn to.
00:10:20
Speaker
But the ah cloud, you know sort of, you know,
00:10:26
Speaker
bared that out, showed showed that, yeah, i wasn't just and wasn' just making it up. I mean, horses was in there a couple times and bourbon was in there a couple times. there you go. But the big words for, with, and through students, community, those those really was really jump.
00:10:45
Speaker
So, Nick, when you think about the role of higher ed and just some of the things you talked about, right, like getting... getting people into their community to have a better sense of where they are and where they're going to go. And you think about where you've come from as working in K-12 and now working in higher ed and all that.
00:11:06
Speaker
how do you How do you help students kind of, especially in in education, people who want to be teachers, like my daughter, third grade teacher, doesn't get paid very well, but it's a passion and it's something that they really want to do.
00:11:23
Speaker
How do you help students kind of still get past like the fact that you're you're not going to be a millionaire being K-12 teacher unless you're doing something outside the classroom?
00:11:33
Speaker
Yeah. Right. How do you keep that passion in a curriculum, especially with all the noise of the value of higher ed, the cost of higher ed, the return on investment in higher ed?
00:11:44
Speaker
How do you all think, how are you thinking about that? Yeah, that's that's a great question. And I think it's you know it's probably a more important question than it ever has been before because of the things that you that you said, Kevin.
00:11:57
Speaker
um One of the things that I have seen over and over now at the three and institutions where I've served after being a teacher and a principal is that for a whole lot of the aspiring teachers that I work with,
00:12:16
Speaker
they're really going in with their eyes wide open and a whole lot of them wouldn't do anything else. It's like, you know, mission calling purpose stuff for them.
00:12:31
Speaker
And, and, um, we can help through things like you know significant investment in scholarship dollars or tuition remission or loan forgiveness and some of those things. and The University Nebraska-Lincoln College of Education and Human Sciences has ah really terrific program, Kevin, that you're familiar with is called Teacher Scholars Academy.
00:12:58
Speaker
and it provides future teachers with a pretty significant stipend and then they they are selected and admitted in in a cohort and there's a program coordinator that kind of serves as the home base for these students that they move through as ah as a group and they are exposed to you know kind of some other professional learning opportunities and one of the students that was in that program, his name is Paul Peckish.
00:13:31
Speaker
He was going to come to UNL and maybe study engineering, maybe study business, wasn't sure, had filled out the application for the Teacher Scholars Academy kind of on a whim because there are educators in every direction in his family.
00:13:48
Speaker
And then he got a call from the program coordinator setting up the Zoom interview for that program and he learned what the stipend was and he learned what the cohort was going to feel like and it almost gave Paul license to say actually you know what I probably most want to be a teacher and now this allows me to say yes to being a teacher that makes it easier to explain to people my choice
00:14:20
Speaker
because I'm a part of something that's being invested in, et cetera. And Paul wound up you know being the student body president at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln and is wow teaching in in suburban Omaha now. And no probably there's law school in its future and and a bunch of things. but um I think the students with the heart for the work as teachers are out there.
00:14:54
Speaker
We have to eliminate obstacles. um Financially, we have to do a much better job of honoring the profession. I talk a lot about this.
00:15:08
Speaker
Every rancher in Nebraska, every horse farm, owner, breeder, trainer in Kentucky, every astronaut, United States senator, small business owner, entrepreneur, or venture capitalist attorney has had a teacher who was transformational in their life and in their trajectory.
00:15:30
Speaker
And they just about always can give you that person's name. Yeah. And so I, we try to talk a lot about you're choosing a life and you are choosing to step into that space where people that you've not met yet are going to look back and say, wow, uh, and this is, this is Jackson.
00:15:54
Speaker
I would not be an engineer without Mrs. Jackson. I would not be a parent had Mrs. Jackson not kept me in school. I would not have gotten serious about my studies had Coach Rogers not said, all right, listen, I know you're coming here because of sports, but that's going to end.
00:16:15
Speaker
So let's tune in, you know, and and most of the students, aspiring teachers that I talk to are trying to emulate or live up to, you know, some of those people for a lot of them, they wouldn't do anything else.
Journey to Higher Education Leadership
00:16:32
Speaker
Yeah. Well, I mean, we before you came in, ah Kevin Kelvin and I were talking a bit about your path, but, um, I'm interested in in what took you from the K-12 space towards,
00:16:48
Speaker
Leaping into higher ed and not just in the faculty world, but really ascending up into leadership because that's not uncommon, but I think it is unique enough that it's, it's worth talking about.
00:16:59
Speaker
Yeah. Um, I never wanted to be a principal. never thought about being a principal and I was a first year teacher. I was a new, a pretty new teacher. Um, and
00:17:14
Speaker
observed, you know, some principles around me I thought, gosh, I think I may probably do that.
00:17:23
Speaker
And when I became a principal, i wasn't very well prepared. And I found that Many of the things in the job that I was required to do, if I was good at those things or if I could hold those things down, it didn't necessarily come from a master's degree, which is not a criticism of the institution. It's a statement about the quality of programs everywhere at that point, you know, at that point in in higher ed.
00:17:52
Speaker
um And so I jumped from being a principal to a faculty position at the master's level, supervising and placing student teachers back at ah the University of Northern Iowa, my alma mater.
00:18:08
Speaker
And there were a couple of things that were the draw. One was ah I love and loved the institution and the chance to, you know, get something back to a place that had been really important to us was really appealing.
00:18:21
Speaker
The other thing was that support of student teachers from early childhood to industrial tech and everything in between in that final semester before they go out and get jobs.
00:18:37
Speaker
represented a whole lot of what I found very difficult to get into as principal. Because as principal, was always consumed with management stuff.
00:18:49
Speaker
You know, other just the daily whack-a-mole, you know, whether it's, you know student conduct or, you know, we've got a toilet overflowing on the second floor, the ovens don't work, and there's 400 students waiting for lunch, and there's a parent in the office to see you just that constant kind of firefighting of ah administrative stuff.
00:19:11
Speaker
The job that I had working with those student teachers was to place them, to supervise them, give them really actionable feedback and ask really good questions. It was instructional leadership, yeah which is what we're trying to you know equip principles to do now and it's that stuff that I had such a hard time getting to.
00:19:33
Speaker
um And so I got to teach the human relations course that they took along with student teaching. And then I got to teach the seminar in student teaching, which was you know bringing them together and saying, OK, how'd it go today?
00:19:48
Speaker
And you know one student said, well, we should have seen what happened in my classroom today. and It was it was ah that was a terrific job and one that I really loved.
00:20:01
Speaker
As much as I loved it, i always thought that I would like to contribute something to helping principals be better prepared than I had been. And so after five years of the student teaching, the student teaching role, I had earned my doctorate and and moved into a different department that was focused on on working with school leaders.
00:20:22
Speaker
And that was, you know, that was, you know, principals are my people. That was very special and something that i've really, really enjoyed doing.
00:20:34
Speaker
um Like being a principal, I never thought about being a department chair or a dean. Never really considered it. um And, you know, had a few people over different times mention that, you know, those higher ed leaderships.
00:20:53
Speaker
opportunities to me way before I ever thought of them. And I've always had this other thing that, you know, I I've seen some people in higher ed that I felt were really careerist and were most focused on the next thing. At times I have observed people that in my judgment, fairly or unfairly, I didn't think we're all in.
00:21:22
Speaker
where we were at that moment. and And so I think that might be some of the reason that I've never like, you know, said, I want to be this, or I want this job, or in five years, i want to be at this place doing that thing.
00:21:40
Speaker
umve never I've never approached it that way. I've just, I've wanted to do good work with fun people who are very passionate and care deeply. and have wanted it to matter and have some fun in the process.
00:21:52
Speaker
And I have been amazingly fortunate to have been in spaces that I've been able to do that just super grateful for for how those things have fallen together.
00:22:08
Speaker
That really resonates. actually I'm going to say this blanket statement. That resonates with the three of us because we've talked about this kind of thing before, but You know, one of the tough, but I guess it is a reality. I'm not going to say a tough aspect, but to ah to move into higher roles in higher ed, you often have to leave an institution that general promotion isn't always, especially when you start getting higher up, it doesn't always happen, which is irksome to me because, you know, yes, outside perspectives are great. Yeah.
00:22:42
Speaker
But you there's so much there's so much benefit to someone with institutional knowledge and blending that with people who have other perspectives from outside or different parts of an institution.
00:22:52
Speaker
And I think a lot is lost by just, especially if it's a leadership role, like, yeah, we need the outside person. We need outside people. Because you've got to spend all that time, they've got acculturate, or they, frankly, can be disruptive to the culture that might have already been...
00:23:07
Speaker
moving along really well. So I applaud your perspective on that because I have a sneaky suspicion, sneaking suspicion that you're going to create a culture like that where people will get upward opportunities and you know, you will create that.
00:23:21
Speaker
You're at the top of your college now. I hope so. And yeah, du to your point, um I've been an internal candidate for some leadership positions a couple handful of times.
00:23:35
Speaker
and and was not the chosen candidate. And that is fine. And, you know, I'm not the most competitive person in the world, but I, you know, I like to, I like to win, right? I like to be chosen. We like to be, you know, you like to grab those things, excuse me.
00:23:56
Speaker
But, and, you know, also been around it enough to know that believe that they things shake out generally in the ways they're supposed to, or that you need them to. i've wanted I've wanted some jobs that I was not offered and I wanted some of them badly and it hurt when I didn't get them.
00:24:22
Speaker
And I can see now I wasn't supposed to. That wasn't the answer. I'd have said yes. And it probably would have been somewhere between pretty good and fine.
00:24:33
Speaker
hopefully not bad match, but you know I can see now that yeah that that wasn't the answer.
00:24:42
Speaker
and And as a teacher, I was looking at a move from one teaching position to another teaching position. And I had some colleagues at school number one that to my surprise and real significant disappointment,
00:25:03
Speaker
were not enthusiastic about me going to that other school. And that really took me aback because I thought we were, thought we were like tight.
00:25:18
Speaker
I thought we had a really strong relationship and the relationship was rooted in like lifting up and doing stuff. And I've found that what some of them wanted was for me to stay right there because that's what they wanted.
00:25:33
Speaker
Oh yeah. And i have carried that. And you know, when I have people that I work with now that are looking at the next thing professionally, I do try really hard to say, all right, I hope that what you want and I hope the best thing for you is being right here with us right now doing this work.
00:25:56
Speaker
And I'm gonna try to make that happen. And if that isn't the thing then I need to respect and admire and appreciate you enough and have enough of a cohesive, authentic relationship that if it's not here, then my job becomes, all right, how do I how do i help you make the next thing happen?
00:26:22
Speaker
Because to approach it the first way for me is just too focused on me. if if that makes you know some kind of If that makes any sense. and And I respect people that you know see it differently and and who might say, if I'm the leader and I can keep you here, I'm going to fight like hell to keep you here and do everything I can. And and i and i I'll talk retention. I'll talk descriptions. I'll talk yeah what would it look like.
00:26:56
Speaker
But if and when you say to me, to grow and to to evolve and develop, I maybe need to do the hard thing or the less convenient thing and it involves going somewhere else as a as a colleague and as a friend, hopefully, and as a person that's interested in helping people rise and grow and develop.
00:27:24
Speaker
I think at that point my job becomes, all right, if it's not here, what is the next thing for you and how to I help with that?
00:27:33
Speaker
I respect you and immensely for that. My first instinct is just to put my head down and work. Just put my head down and focus on what's right in front of me. Sometimes a little too much.
00:27:45
Speaker
Sometimes I can do that at the expense of national organizations and you know connectivity with other things, but I often feel like I have so much right here and I just got to keep focusing on it. And sometimes that over-focus on what's right here can cause us to, you know, have tunnel vision and not see possibilities or not see, gosh, this is awesome and this is terrific work and I love these people and the impact that we're having and I've got to have a broad enough view to understand that there may be other places, you know, and contributions where I can make.
00:28:26
Speaker
I had a principal mentor who was kind of a john wayne style you know kind of he was i call him a 5149 guy you know 51 love him 49 can't it was very hourly you know i believe the new word is frenemy yeah yeah and i remember doc smith saying one time never stay for the people and i thought man wow you are a cold
00:29:00
Speaker
dude and transactional and a bunch of other things. But I've come to learn that or understand that what he meant was many times the amazing people that we are so tied to and so uh and that we admire so much and that teaches so much and they're making such you know amazing differences they're at the next place too you just don't know them yet right and and i don't want that to land like oh yeah we're friends while i'm here and then when you go to the next place
00:29:41
Speaker
you know, just cast off and transactional and on to the next thing. But I do think that Daryl was on to something, at least in my mind, because the the people that I have learned from and been coached by and and taught by um that I would not have planned for myself has just been unbelievable. I think it's important to be open to that.
00:30:09
Speaker
Yeah, you know, especially in higher ed, um
00:30:14
Speaker
with if you when you work with faculty a lot, which, you know, Kevin and Kelvin i and I have in different parts, of i mean, been faculty, especially Kelvin back in other times, when you work with faculty a lot, they are often rooted in those places for much or most of their careers. There's motion, and you know, now is a time of motion for a lot of faculty.
00:30:38
Speaker
But, um I think ah on the staff side, there's that can, I'm not gonna say hold you back, ah but being around them, you know, wanna be, I wanted to be, I wanna be rooted in a way, not for my whole life, but I wanna be part of a culture when I'm working an organization. So I think working with faculty, you have to be careful when you're on the staff side to not to not see an equivalence with your role, like, oh, I should stay here my whole career because,
00:31:07
Speaker
of XYZ because I'm because it's the the faculty culture is often that so it's a balancing act because I worked at Macalester College for nine years and had the best opera the best experience because I worked so closely with faculty and humanities and all over the all over the institution. You know, my office is in their building on the in the humanities building.
00:31:29
Speaker
um and it was great because they were so great and welcoming. But I also felt like I need to not I'm not in that world too, where I, you know, there's no tenured path. There's no promotion to full professor. i need to also pay attention to what my career needs. And that's one of the things that compelled me to find a route ah beyond McAllister. As much as I i actually, there's so days I miss it, you know, like storm on campus, meeting those folks and all that.
00:31:57
Speaker
Yeah, I'm right there with you. My wife and I between us have three degrees from the University of Northern Iowa. I was a department chair in a newly renovated building that had a bank of windows that looked across the street at the basketball arena where we played.
00:32:12
Speaker
And it was probably as much home as any place, you know, growing up. And as much as I love the institution and the people and all of the things that they invested in me, I could not have learned the things that I learned without accepting the invitation to go to the University of Nebraska-Lincoln.
00:32:36
Speaker
And I cried deeply. i cried
00:32:41
Speaker
violently when I shared the decision because I did i ah knew that I needed to, but I didn't know if I could physically pull it off. And i it had had to happen.
00:32:53
Speaker
And that is said with no judgment for people who arrive at a different decision and say, nope, this is my place and i'm right here and this is my lane and this is it. Yeah, I mean, I think you're, I mean, all of it's valid points, right? Like we have to think about who we are and where our journey is going to go just as much as we think about our students and what's this what's our student journey going to be and how are we going to help our students get to where they want to be. I think, you know, it's it's really thinking about how not not everybody has to stay and not everybody has to be, this is the only place I ever work.
00:33:30
Speaker
And if yeah if it is, it's fine, right? Like that's that's a choice. yeah but But also I think really what you're saying is,
00:33:38
Speaker
you're you're willing to be that stepping stone for someone. if you If you need a hand to get to here or you want to stay here, but you want to do something differently, what can I do? those are Those are paths and those are paths that you can help them work through to kind of get what's going to make them feel better. I think you know it's a different story than the disgruntled employee. That's just like, I've got to get out of this place.
00:34:02
Speaker
This is terrible. This is not for me. This is not what I thought I was going to get into. it's it's the other It's the other path. It's the path of how do you help someone grow in who they want to be as an individual.
00:34:15
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yes. that Kevin, that's actually better than I said it by quite a bit. That's what I meant. mean I got it. you know I did get it. I was just like putting my own spin on on um the way I think about it.
00:34:31
Speaker
So Nick, we have ah just a few more minutes left and you tell me whether or not you want to talk about this. but I love your Buckeye story. oh And I don't you have Buckeyes in the office somewhere. i do. So right there.
00:34:46
Speaker
Yep. There they are. Yeah. The big the jar of Buckeyes. Yeah. Can you, can you share the buck your, yeah your connection to Buckeyes? Yeah. um So my grandfather on my mom's side was a tough old German Iowa farmer, you know, who could grow,
00:35:07
Speaker
corn on it a patch of concrete or sand, ah you know, just a quintessential, you know, Iowa farmer, direct,
00:35:21
Speaker
very entertaining language, great sense of humor, you know, all of the things, um not formally educated, I mean, went to high school, you know. um And he carried a Buckeye in his pocket his whole life because he believed that the Buckeye brought good luck.
00:35:39
Speaker
And I have since learned that that is a ah full ah folklore, a folk wisdom thing in a lot of parts of the country. And it's an indigenous belief in it's among some indigenous peoples also. And so my, my family, my wife and and our kids got into, you know,
00:35:59
Speaker
finding buckeye trees and and collecting buckeyes
00:36:05
Speaker
many, many years ago. And I was actually at at Nebraska and a ah staff member was in my office. Because sometimes people will see the bowl and they'll say, oh, yeah what a bunch of acorns or where'd you get all the chestnuts or something.
00:36:21
Speaker
But this guy saw the the bowl of buckeyes and I started in the story. He said, yeah, my grandfather carried a buckeye as a and reaches in his pocket and pulls out a buckeye and said, yes, my grandfather believed the same thing.
00:36:36
Speaker
And I do qualify it by saying, you know, my my grandfather never traveled the east of the Mississippi River except for a government-sponsored business trip to France in 1943.
00:36:48
Speaker
So it's not an Ohio State buckeye, or that's not the reference. um So i i just I have a giant bowl of Buckeyes, and I give them to students on graduation day or job interview day or dissertation defense day at our opening advanced meeting here in the college this fall. I had some Buckeyes out on the table for people that wanted to grab one and stick it in their purse or their backpack or their, you know, just yeah just kind of a a good luck thing, a story.
00:37:28
Speaker
um I think it ah think it's important to have a sense of you know history and people that have come before us and you know my my father or my my grandfather That grandfather didn't have any connection to higher ed.
00:37:44
Speaker
um His daughters did not attend college. um good man wanted good things for people. oh He'd have supported the school down on the corner, down the road. He'd have supported the bond issue because, you know, you plant a tree for the next guy, those things he would say.
00:38:04
Speaker
Yeah, so the Buckeye has been a ah good kind of point of reference for me. As long as I explain it with clarity, in Lincoln so that the the Big Ten connection to our friends in Columbus doesn't get to too dicey and explain it to here explained to folks here in Lexington so so they know that it's not a the Ohio State University reference. but It's lighter than carrying around a box of horseshoes.
00:38:36
Speaker
Yeah, you know, and the rabbit's foot. yeah yeah I've got one in the backpack, one in the car. You know, got them around. I've got somewhere in my my little my little ah box of cufflinks and stuff.
00:38:49
Speaker
I need to dig it out now. Yeah, the one you gave me is in is in my bag. All right. Well, we've got an embarrassing number of Buckeyes in our house.
00:39:00
Speaker
It's stored away.
00:39:04
Speaker
Well, Kelvin and Kevin, I don't want to jump in too much, but what's, ah not what's next, but What are your plans? You're 90-ish days in, you know, you're 100 days almost.
00:39:18
Speaker
What's your plans and where you where are you going to go and with the University of Kentucky? Well, this is a terrific college, really proud college. Been very well supported and well led for a long time.
Vision for College of Education
00:39:30
Speaker
and and
00:39:33
Speaker
anytime a new leader comes in, you know, people say, well, what's your vision or where, you know, where are we headed? Where are you going to take us? And I have, I have said that I don't think, uh, that vision is something that just comes with a new person and gets installed or plugged in or, you know, forced down.
00:39:53
Speaker
Um, I think it's something that gets built together or it should get built together. Um, and I've told people here, That being said, in terms of vision, here are a couple things that draw my eye.
00:40:08
Speaker
and And one is, how do we situate this college in the disciplines that we have as the go-to destination of choice for students who want to learn about the challenges supported in the academic disciplines that we that we offer in the college?
00:40:33
Speaker
How do we situate it as yeah, that's choice one. That's where you want to go. That's where i want to be. How do we situate the college as the go-to career destination of faculty members who want to do teaching and scholarly work related to those areas?
00:40:53
Speaker
Of all of the options available, Boy, in this field, you better look at UK. How do we situate the college as the destination of choice for staff who want to contribute meaningfully to the success of those two groups in and in a true community that you know, recognizes all different types of contributions and, you know, you learn very quickly as a principal that nobody cares if you're out of the building, but if the Cooks custodians, secretary, support staff are gone, the wheels are gonna come off very quickly.
00:41:34
Speaker
um And then the fourth thing to that is how do we situate the college as the go-to partner and co-creator of solutions to challenges that school districts are having and communities are having and sports teams, organizations, et cetera.
00:41:56
Speaker
Man, why are our eighth graders thriving and and they are tanking this freshmen? What is going on? I bet UK can help us with that.
00:42:08
Speaker
how do we How do we really do that well in the land bank? I mean, it sounds like that sounds like extension in agriculture, really. Well, i yeah. i think I think in a lot of ways the extension model and that connectivity works. Yeah.
00:42:26
Speaker
the The second um and and we have ah our extended leadership team in the college is doing a study McClure's, the Cary University.
00:42:41
Speaker
and And we're really having some great conversations about how do you put some of those ideas in practice. And it's not just you know sit around and you know sing campfire songs and we all enjoy each other so much that we want to go to dinner every week because that's not realistic.
00:43:01
Speaker
um But how do we, you know, how do we you know create that kind of destination environment? And then the second thing that draws my eye that I've talked a lot about here is how do we really excel at you know connecting theory to practice in that.
00:43:22
Speaker
Take the amazing work that gets done, funded research, unfunded research, creative activity, and come alongside communities and schools and organizations and you know co-create you know solutions. It's very different than you know coming into town and saying, I'm from the university and I'm here to fix you. I'm here to boss you around. I'm here to discount your experience.
00:43:48
Speaker
I'm here to talk down to ya you. know I think sometimes folks have experienced that from higher ed. And i I'm drawn to a much more co-create creation, authentic collaboration.
00:44:04
Speaker
What do you need? How can we help? I think that's one of the best questions you can ever ask in maybe in any setting, but in higher education, especially, you know, leadership or staff roles, how can I help?
00:44:16
Speaker
And I appreciate that you put that in there. I also appreciate appreciate what you said about, well, effectively what you said from my, where I sit is disruption is not necessarily innovation.
00:44:29
Speaker
to come into an organization as a new leader and to just throw everything out as a matter of course. I don't, that seems to be a common ah refrain in the current professional, know, in the private sector, business, et cetera. and And it gets pushed all over the place. And I don't necessarily see it as valid in every setting as as just, you know, it's an automatic setting. So I really appreciate that You said you're gonna come in and listen. And I, pre honestly, the fact that you I'm assuming you evoke these things and said them in your and your interviewing processes.
00:45:05
Speaker
I'm sure there are lots of rounds to say that and that they're like, yeah, this is what we want. We don't necessarily need someone to come and trash the house here. We need someone to come in and listen and make really smart, informed decisions about where this college needs to go, can go, and the then the kind of of impact doing that can have.
00:45:23
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I did try to, I did talk about that a lot. and ah And, you know, and I coach students all the time that when you are going to that interview,
00:45:35
Speaker
You've got to answer the questions truthfully and and honestly. and And we all do our homework and we learn as much as we can on the front end. But don't tell them what you think they want to hear because we don't know what they want to hear.
00:45:48
Speaker
You have to answer it like authentically. If this resonates and if this might be a fit, then let's keep the conversation going. And if it's not... You know it's the old Bowman and deal stuff about when when the, when the fit is bad, the organization or the individual or both are going to suffer.
00:46:10
Speaker
And so you better be authentic about what. they better be authentic about what are the needs and aspirations and what's the but mission. And then you better be authentic about, all right, here's what I see. Here's what I bring. Here's what you would be getting.
00:46:27
Speaker
um Because, you know, if, if somebody wants the great collaborator, but the person coming in is assuming that they're walking in on the new sheriff plan, that's not going to, that's not going to go well.
00:46:44
Speaker
I laughed because you said Bowman and Deal. i had a quick shutter from graduate school. Formal orgs. Now I'm going have my quarterly nightmare where I i forgot to go to class and I haven't done any of the work.
00:46:58
Speaker
oh I'm just kidding. Gotcha. So yeah, those those are um those are those are front of mind here. And again,
00:47:12
Speaker
this this college and this institution does so very many things well and has for a long time i think there's a you know despite all the churn of public higher ed right now and and you know the tone and tenor in the country etc um there there's some there's some exciting fun alluring things happening here that that yeah are really really appealing and and hope we can
00:47:43
Speaker
talk again down the road and have some tangible ways that we're moving the needle. Yeah.
Exploring Kentucky's Culture
00:47:49
Speaker
So outside of work, Nick, what are some fun things that you and your wife have done since you've gotten to Kentucky?
00:47:56
Speaker
You know, we have really had a good time just exploring the Commonwealth within Iowa, Midwest, Iowa, Nebraska, pretty much our whole adult, our whole lives really.
00:48:07
Speaker
And so getting out in Kentucky has been really fun. We've been to several distillery, the bourbon tasting tours and just the history and the science behind, you know, the recipes.
00:48:21
Speaker
yeah That's been super fun. Yeah. learning more about the history of the Commonwealth. And you know you you get to this longitude and in the USA and you know the structures minimum are 100 years older than they are you know in Iowa and Nebraska. And so that history has been interesting.
00:48:45
Speaker
you know Kentucky's history as a slave state that stayed in the Union and the divisions there and the pockets as a former social studies teacher.
00:48:57
Speaker
That is super interesting interesting to me.
00:49:03
Speaker
at one of the interviews I was in an Uber and I asked the driver, what are the most important things, you know, that, that I would need to know if if I were to be here. And he said, there's three. He said, UK basketball, horses and bourbon.
00:49:19
Speaker
And I said, well, I'm pretty good shape on a basketball as a basketball guy. I don't know anything about horses and I'm happy to learn about bourbon. Uh, so tomorrow, I'm going to the Keeneland,
00:49:34
Speaker
Racetrack, which is the big the big horse track here in Lexington. It'd be a little different Saturday, because I'll get up and put on a suit bow tie and probably a hat and go watch but watch the race and and take in that horse culture. So that has been super fun. People have been really welcoming. Lexington's a great food town.
00:49:58
Speaker
we're we're having a lot of having a lot of fun and and also adjusting to the fact that our family is little more spread out than it's been. are you Are you saying y'all yet?
00:50:10
Speaker
um I say y'all a bit, but I've also said y'all...
00:50:18
Speaker
it previously. right I will say, Kevin, that we had somebody at the house and he was complaining about Lexington traffic, which is a thing.
00:50:30
Speaker
And he he he said, I've plumb sat there an hour. i heard somebody use plumb as an adverb. And so that was super exciting as a student of culture and, you know, yeah language.
00:50:45
Speaker
um Let's see. The other one, Fixin. Fixin, too. Oh, yeah. Yeah. i i I gave my extension ladder away, and and the fellow said he was Fixin' to be there about 4.30. Fixin' up.
00:51:00
Speaker
Pick it up. So that that was good, too. Yeah, I don't say Fixin' much, but I'm definitely all, y'all and all y'all. yeah Y'alls, plural, possessive, y'alls. Y'alls.
00:51:12
Speaker
yeahd I'd heard Finna. I'm finna be there about four. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. um But I'd not heard Fixin to. Fixin to be there. So, yeah, really enjoying the culture and learning our way through it. I've had a hot brown, which is a Kentucky sandwich that I think...
00:51:38
Speaker
Kinesiology and health promotion is a department in our college. And I think my colleagues in that department would say that I probably ought to have a hot brown once every seven years or so. I'm watching that.
00:51:55
Speaker
And yeah I mean, being in a different latitude, literally, you'll get, I mean, fall in that region should be beautiful. Yeah, yeah. it's It's been pretty warm here for the last couple of weeks, you know, 80s, but the humidity is down.
00:52:12
Speaker
You know, people are saying, oh, no, you're going to want that snowblower once a year. And I've said, trust me, I spent a lot of time in Cedar Falls, Iowa, and Lincoln, Nebraska, and the snowblower stayed in Lincoln.
00:52:23
Speaker
Yeah. I got a broom. I'll be good. don't think you're going to need it. Yes. They're going to shut down if it snows that much. You need a snowblower anyway. That's what I understand. we nothing's gonna happen it's like my first year when i went to fayetteville arkansas was like snowed it's like oh we're not even going to school it's like it's a dusting yeah this is not snow yeah it's all that tuesday yeah mean that's tuesday said the said the minnesota guy yeah yeah and i'm from st louis missouri so i've been here 20 years but i've acclimated you know i yeah i've
00:52:59
Speaker
Actually, it's becoming more like St. Louis here. We're going to be in the mid-upper 80s today, which we're going to set a record, apparently, for October high and low. The lows are going to be in the 70s tonight. So it's like my roots are following me up here. So I'm a little bit.
00:53:14
Speaker
Yeah. The end the end of, what, September to October was nothing like July, August. Like, we were really cool. Yeah. just Yeah. This is wild. Yeah.
00:53:25
Speaker
We had a couple of weeks here that were like upper 60s, way early. Yeah. Well, this has been fun. It's been great. Appreciate you being flexible and joining us
Closing Remarks
00:53:40
Speaker
today. really We really do appreciate you sharing your insights.
00:53:44
Speaker
I appreciate the conversation. It's always you know fun to talk to other people that are you know passionate about higher ed and and believe in what it is and believe in ways that it needs to do more and that we need it to do more.
00:54:00
Speaker
Just, yeah, I really appreciate that appreciate the invitation. And I'm going to subscribe and give you all a listen. Sounds good. there's There's a lot there to hear.
00:54:12
Speaker
yeah I don't think there's any better way to end it than that. So ah wish you all the best and keep us keep us informed as to how it's going as you further settle into your role. Yeah, sure will. If I can help with things down the road, love to keep in touch and appreciate it and be well.
00:54:28
Speaker
You too. Thank you. Okay. Bye-bye.
00:54:42
Speaker
you