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Ryan Hurley on going from elite swimmer to entrepreneurship, starting a business to optimize sleep and performance, importance of proper rest to recover, becoming an ultrarunning
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On today’s episode of Just In Stride we rest and relax with elite swimmer, triathlete and entrepreneur, Ryan Hurley.
Ryan is an elite athlete who brings a wealth of experience and insights to the world of endurance sports. As an accomplished swimmer, ultrarunner, and triathlete, Ryan has pushed his limits across multiple disciplines, demonstrating incredible resilience, adaptability, and drive. Beyond his athletic pursuits, Ryan is the founder of Lagoon, a company dedicated to optimizing recovery and sleep for athletes and high performers.
Through his background in endurance sports and his work with Lagoon, Ryan brings a unique perspective on the importance of sleep, recovery, and mental fortitude in achieving peak performance. His journey embodies the spirit of this podcast, as he seamlessly balances athletic pursuits with innovative entrepreneurship, aiming to help others reach their full potential both in sport and life.
Here's the book I was talking about. Can't believe I forgot the name!
The Speed Freak Who Transformed Running - The New York Times
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Offer from Xact Nutrition: This episode is presented by our friends at Xact Nutrition and they are offering you 15% OFF your order when you use the code JUSTINSTRIDE. So head to xactnutrition.com and fuel your goals today! Now shipping in Canada and the U.S.
Thanks for tuning in to the Just In Stride Podcast. I truly appreciate you taking the time to listen and I hope you enjoyed that conversation as much as I did. Please take a minute after this to rate and review our show on Apple Podcasts. With your feedback we’ll be able to make the show even better and it’ll help us reach new listeners too. You can also find us on Instagram @justinstridepod and YouTube @justinstridepod for all the latest episodes and updates. Glad you came along for the ride with Just In Stride!
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Transcript
Introduction to Justin Stride Podcast
00:00:03
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Justin Stride podcast. I'm your host, Justin Pugliese. If you love endurance sports, you've definitely come to the right place. On this show, we'll talk to athletes, coaches, and professionals who can help us reach our true potential.
00:00:18
Speaker
Being a student of distance running for over 10 years and interviewing people in the sport for the last five, I've learned a ton, but there's always more to discover. Everyone has a story and I know you'll resonate with each of our guests as we embark on this new journey together.
00:00:34
Speaker
Join us at home, on the road, or while you run. Together, we'll have some fun. So follow along on Instagram at JustinStridePod and your favorite podcast platform and prepare to be inspired.
00:00:47
Speaker
Come along for the ride with Just In Stride.
Sponsorship and Personal Endurance Experience
00:00:50
Speaker
This episode is presented by our friends at Exact Nutrition, a tasty and healthy way for you to fuel your body before, during, and after a solid training session.
00:01:00
Speaker
I can't leave the house without a few fruit bars in my pocket and they never make it back home. Exact is offering you 15% off your order when you use the code Just In Stride. So head to exactnutrition.com and fuel your goals today.
00:01:14
Speaker
Ready to crush your next goal? with 15 years of experience across endurance sports, from 5Ks to ultras, over 10 marathons with a personal best of two hours, 45 minutes, including Boston, New York City, and Berlin, plus two Ironmans, I know what it takes to achieve real results.
00:01:33
Speaker
But training for a race is about more than just logging miles. It's about training smarter, and that's where a coach makes all the difference. As your coach, I'll create a personalized week-by-week plan tailored to fit your unique goals, lifestyle, and schedule.
00:01:48
Speaker
You'll also get guidance on race day strategy, nutrition, pre-race routines, and the insider tips that can transform your performance. With a coach, you're not guessing through training. You're following a proven, customized roadmap with support every step of the way. So if you're ready to train smarter and reach new levels, email me at justin at justinstridepod.com and let's make those goals happen.
Interview with Ryan Hurley
00:02:14
Speaker
On today's episode of Justin Stride, we rest and relax with elite swimmer, triathlete, and entrepreneur, Ryan Hurley. Ryan is an elite athlete who brings a wealth of experience and insights to the world of endurance sports.
00:02:27
Speaker
As an accomplished swimmer, ultra runner and triathlete, Ryan has pushed his limits across multiple disciplines, demonstrating incredible resilience, adaptability and drive. Beyond his athletic pursuits, Ryan is the founder of Lagoon, a company dedicated to optimizing recovery and sleep for athletes and high performers.
00:02:46
Speaker
Through his background in endurance sports and his work with Lagoon, Ryan brings a unique perspective on the importance of sleep, recovery, and mental fortitude in achieving peak performance.
00:02:57
Speaker
His journey embodies the spirit of this podcast as he seamlessly balances athletic pursuit with innovative entrepreneurship, aiming to help others reach their full potential both in sport and life.
00:03:12
Speaker
Ryan, welcome to the Justin Stride podcast. Hey, thanks for having me, Justin. Really great to be here. Yeah, I said to you before we even got started that I feel like I know you somehow from all the Instagram that you do for your your brand, you know Lagoon. And um yeah, you know I wanted to get you know to know you more as like a a person, like on an athletic level, but also you know kind of what you're doing professionally too.
00:03:35
Speaker
Yeah, likewise. It's ah it's funny. i was was very not comfortable getting out there and being the face of the brand. But you know the things you do to to try and make a small business work, you got to get comfortable being out there and and and really championing what you're working on. so So it's not something I'm like necessarily that's innate to me or so that I'm super comfortable with. But but i'm I'm glad you're seeing it. I'm glad to be to be working on it.
00:04:02
Speaker
Like, do you have, is it, was there like a purpose around that? I feel like I saw something not too long ago that you, you talking about that or being like showing your face to kind of build that trust with, with the the audience the the audience that you're trying to capture.
00:04:15
Speaker
Yeah. Well, you know, I guess just to, to jump into it, um, trying to you know Trying to build Lagoon, our you know our sleep business, or be where we sell predominantly pillows from from scratch, you know you you just start and you're like, okay, are people goingnna are people going to show up to your store? are they going to buy your products?
00:04:34
Speaker
Thought we had great products, thought we had a good business model, but people don't know you know don't know who you are. So why is anybody going to buy from a store that has zero reviews online when they could buy a pillow from Casper, who has 50%. 50,000 reviews and and you have to create some sort of connection. So it took a lot of work up front, getting Pillow, our product in people's hands. So other people started talking about it, but also just like making sure people understood the the face behind the the business as well too, to understand
00:05:07
Speaker
why it is that Lagoon was out there existing, selling pillows in the first place. and And, you know I think that's why I've just focused so much on athletes. It's like, because, because like, why did this athlete ah create a pillow business in the first place? It's a question i get asked a lot. Like you worked at NBC Sports for 10 years, like why a pillow business?
00:05:28
Speaker
So being able to like actually share the story, I think people like, oh, okay, like I get it now. You you want to help people sleep their best so they can perform their best. Here's the product that you think can make the biggest difference.
00:05:40
Speaker
So just being out there, showing that we're a small business, showing that it's me. I mean, it's still me that's answering customer service emails. It's still you know it's still me that is helping make sure orders are getting out the door every day. So um I think that resonates with people. People want to know who they're doing business with.
00:05:57
Speaker
I'd be curious your in perspective too, Justin, but I mean, like sometimes I'm shopping on a site and you go, you try and like find the a about us page. And if you, you can't, can't find anything about these people, you're like, who, you know, who are these people? Do I really trust it? And sometimes it's just a ah complete non-starter. If you really don't know what it is, it's just a amorphous product, if you will.
00:06:17
Speaker
Yeah. It's, it's difficult, right? Like, and, and for the most part, you're talking to strangers, I'd say, you know, like that are, that are interested in that. And, And how, like, you you know yourself, you have a ah great product for them that can fulfill and need that they have.
00:06:34
Speaker
But how do you convey that with without them actually trying it out? Like, is it from, a like, there's so much education, I'm sure, that goes around and not just getting to know you. Like, you know, you seem like a friendly guy. you have a great smile.
00:06:48
Speaker
So that's like like, it's a good approachable start. But like,
The Importance of Sleep for Athletes
00:06:51
Speaker
you know, without them actually sleeping on it, how do you get people to actually believe that this is going to make the difference? You know, yeah. It's like sleep. Do you go with talking about your their typical product that they typically use?
00:07:05
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's exactly the right question. And it's something I'm working to answer yeah every single day, um because what is what are you going to find that's going to resonate with people is is is really challenging. and it's and And the answer is different for for every different person.
00:07:22
Speaker
um But you know I think probably where I would lean or where I would start, what I think we've done well, um put it in business terms, right? Like selling the outcomes.
00:07:33
Speaker
but But to put it in practical terms between you and i I, do you really care that your pillow's the most comfortable? Yeah, it's great. But what you really want from the pillow is to wake up feeling great so that you can do amazing things every day.
00:07:48
Speaker
And that's really what we're selling is the ability to hopefully just feel a little bit better in the morning so that you can perform better every day. So while we are selling a pillow, it's it's it's kind of a hard, it's it's a really hard thing to sell.
00:08:01
Speaker
um you know it's just It's a white square that you know if you're using if you're using the thing properly, you're just dead asleep. So there's nothing inherently that you're excited or like sharing or talking about people with. It's not something you're bringing out with you out into public.
00:08:17
Speaker
every single day as well too. So there's like a lot of inherent challenges with with selling a pillow. So I think i think we that's that's made it even more so where we've had to sell the outcomes and then we just had to get more people and talking about it and talking about their experiences.
00:08:34
Speaker
I think the one thing really working in lagoon's favor or you know our favor is is just the idea that i think a lot of people are starting to take their sleep much more seriously than they did even five or ten years ago and i think that's a great thing i think i definitely grew up in the age of you know we're we're probably about the same age like going to you know going to through college and everything oh my god i pulled an all-nighter and people saying it like it's a badge of honor And all these things where if you're working, you know, if you're, you're working so such long hours, because you're so important, was it was it's kind of this thing that I think is, is by and large, especially kind of in the health and fitness community, dying away a little bit, and people are realizing that life does require balance. If you are getting optimal sleep, you can actually accomplish way more, even if it's in a more finite number of hours
00:09:25
Speaker
Yeah. And how how underrated do you find sleep? Like when you when you put in a spectrum of like an athlete, doesn't matter what sport, but like, you know, we have like strength training, stretching the training itself, like the the easy days, the hard days.
00:09:40
Speaker
the the fuel that that we put in our bodies and sleep, like, where do you, where do you prioritize that? Or and yeah where do you, where do you think most people prioritize that? I, well, like I said, I think it's moving in the right direction, yeah right which I think is a good thing, but you know, I, I think, yeah,
00:09:57
Speaker
I think it's it's one of the top three, right? I would just say general health and fitness is is one, nutrition is the other, and sleep should be the third. So I think it should be that big of a category in and of itself.
00:10:08
Speaker
You can maybe even see sleep and recovery are kind of in the same category. But, I mean, one of the the things that was most interesting to me, last year I did my longest race today was, you know, a 50-miler.
00:10:20
Speaker
um And, and i you know, i I opted to take two recovery days and and I was like very careful about if I was starting to feel sick or starting to feel injured, just making sure that I was sleeping longer and was really impressed just to kind of practice what I was preaching.
00:10:37
Speaker
ah and And I didn't get injured through the entire training cycle. I showed up to the line in in great shape. I got all my my training in, but but wasn't injured at all. And and so I think and and and you know felt like I had the energy still to do what I needed to do.
00:10:53
Speaker
So I think that's probably one of the things that goes back. or is maybe maybe not as closely associated, how much how much sleep really helps with general muscle recovery, but also just avoiding your ability to to get injured.
00:11:08
Speaker
I think in endurance sports especially, i don't know what the percentage is. You might know what the percentage is and like How many people get injured on average during a regular training cycle? It's got to be double digits for sure.
00:11:20
Speaker
So if you can reduce it just by sleeping better and taking good care of yourself, and not not overdoing things, i think I think ultimately to just get yourself to the start line um is pretty incredible. So where does it fall?
00:11:34
Speaker
I would bucketize it as such. Everybody has their own different preferences. Everybody still does have real-world time constraints around, yeah, if you if you have a day job, yeah, if you have kids, you're going to be a little bit more constrained. But It's like anything, just make sure that that you you consider it that big category so you're allowing the appropriate time for it rather than making it the afterthought and just squeezing in what you can.
00:11:59
Speaker
Yeah. And do you have like, i don't know, this may be a weird question, but like, do you have like a before sleep and after sleep? Like before I was sleeping like this and now I'm sleeping like this and this is the result I got. Like, you know what I mean?
00:12:11
Speaker
It's like this is like, you could say that with like running, like, or any sport again, like, oh, I had a coach. I didn't have a coach. Now I have a coach and this is the results I have, you know, is that, does that exist or can you make it something tangible? Like,
00:12:24
Speaker
i Yeah, so I think it's a great question. And there would be two two like distinct aha moments that I've had that i think that I think show the benefits of sleep in terms of how I take it, how I've been taking it more seriously over the past couple of years. so um The first would be that example of just not getting injured. I you know i was a swimmer, so moving from swimming into running,
00:12:45
Speaker
you know, legs are goofy. I was a breaststroke or two. So, like so injury prone, like tons of, tons of stress fractures, you know, ah dealing with something it felt like almost every year, but I haven't had an injury that's kept me from training in the past, in the past three years. So I think that in and of itself is pretty remarkable just in in terms of how I prioritize my sleep and and not getting injured.
00:13:07
Speaker
The second thing I would say is I was the guy that was trying to game the system a little bit in terms of The experts say seven to nine hours of sleep. So I was like, okay, if I'm in bed for seven hours straight, I'm doing what the doctor recommends and that's good enough.
00:13:22
Speaker
And I distinctly remember every morning my wife would tell me what she dreamt her about the night before. And she's like, Ryan, what'd you dream about? and And I, I can't remember anything. I can't tell you anything.
00:13:34
Speaker
And it wasn't until I got my aura ring that I realized that my REM sleep was just horrible. I just wasn't getting enough REM sleep. And, you know, if if you know anything about REM sleep, like typically you'll get more of it towards the end of the night as you're kind of,
00:13:49
Speaker
coming closer to waking up. And so I was just cutting my sleep short. I was getting seven hours when my body actually needed seven hours and 45 minutes. So lo and behold, when I started to extend my sleep time by that 45 minute period, um um I'm remembering my dreams. I'm getting great, great REM sleep. And honestly, I think that is doing a lot of benefit for me and in memory consolidation, in mental acuity, just in in being sharper every morning too. So that would be the other thing that I would call out acutely that I've noticed.
00:14:20
Speaker
change. So it's this aura ring that helped you to understand better your sleep patterns and also how much you were requiring. And I'm assuming this is probably different for everybody or going to leave on you for some kind of like education around sleep. Cause I think it's really important. I haven't had anybody like you on the podcast yet. So I'm really pumped.
00:14:43
Speaker
which Well, yeah, I get back up just a little bit and and like, um I'm not an aura ambassador. I feel like they should be. I talk i talked about it so and I'm always wearing it too. It's charging literally right over there right now.
00:14:54
Speaker
um But, but, you know, I think what, Sleep tracking as as is obviously really popular right now. There are pros and cons to it for sure.
00:15:07
Speaker
i think i think what I would take from it is it can benefit everybody in the sense that they can use that data to start creating some consistency in their sleep routine. And if there's one thing that I would harp on for everybody, it's to try and be more consistent with your sleep routine. Don't go to sleep at 10 o'clock one night and 2 a.m. the next night.
00:15:27
Speaker
Try not to, you know, have benders on the weekends where you're throwing, you know, your weekends look ah way different than your weekdays. ah The consistency is what's just going to help with the quality of your sleep.
00:15:39
Speaker
And I think just tracking your sleep, you can see the trend lines and you can see that that like, that stuff really simply. um i think where where people start to get in trouble a little bit with the sleep data is probably fixating a little bit too much on REM sleep or deep sleep.
00:15:55
Speaker
And those are called kind of your sleep stages. And and so just kind of the the super quick on it. Deep sleep is really when you're in your deepest sleep, you're not dreaming.
00:16:05
Speaker
That's where more of the like muscle repair and recovery and growth happens. And then REM sleep is, think of it, generally more so where, where the, the, the mind is sharpening throughout the process as well, too. That's where in your lighter sleep, that's where you're, you're dreaming as well, too.
00:16:23
Speaker
Um, there's light sleep mixed in there as well, too. And you just kind of need that to fill out the bucket. Um, but, but really, What people will do is they're like, oh, shoot, I only got 45 minutes of REM sleep last night. How do I get back to an hour and a half like I had the night before? And no just consumer grade products are good enough right now to truly capture how much deep sleep and REM sleep you're getting on a night to night basis.
00:16:49
Speaker
What I do think would be beneficial would be, though, to look at those stages as they trend over the longer term. So if you're averaging in August, you know, one hour of deep sleep and you've improved it to an average of an hour and 15 minutes in October, you're doing something right where you're improving the amount of deep sleep you're getting. So I think the trends are important, but but definitely don't over fixate on like any one given day. Because the problem with that, that people are seeing and and you you can see a lot of stuff published out there nowadays about it too, is that
00:17:24
Speaker
especially with type A personalities like you and I that get super competitive about this stuff. you start If you start to think about it and fix it fix it fixate on it um it, it just tends to to to not work.
00:17:38
Speaker
like you can't You can't force yourself to sleep. day when you're When you're lying in bed, you can't like force yourself to sleep. You kind of have to let it come to you. So by stressing about things and fixating on it, you're going to have you're going to have the reverse effect. So yeah that's why you don't want to fixate on it.
00:17:53
Speaker
Like the mind's just like wandering, you're looking up at the ceiling and then you can't sleep. And you're like, damn it. I need to like get my REM. Exactly. Exactly. You're panicking and stuff. No, I get it.
00:18:04
Speaker
hey It's like, how do you act? Like how it's, it's a weird thing. Cause you're sleeping, you're supposed to be resting and not thinking you're, you know? And so. it's it kind of creates that opposite effect.
00:18:15
Speaker
So how do you improve? How can one improve their there REM? Is it by staying in bed longer or like allowing enough time for the body to get there? Like I'm i'm a bit like, how does one? That would definitely be my number one recommendation in terms how you can improve REM sleep. Just making sure you're allowing yourself enough sleep.
00:18:36
Speaker
i think I think there are other things that you could could find too that could be disrupting your REM sleep. For example, if you have you know external noises like like street noise or things that that might waken you up could cause you to disrupt your REM sleep.
00:18:52
Speaker
Frankly, like having the wrong pillow could disrupt your REM sleep because you find yourself tossing into and turning more so it's disrupting that sleep cycle so think about the things that would just disrupt your natural your body wants to naturally go through these cycles so things that kind of snap you out of sleep to let you kind of finish that cycle where you're you're a little bit more prone to to be woken up.
00:19:14
Speaker
um And then there are other things that that like there are supplementation that you can take to that could theoretically help with REM sleep. These studies are lighter in that area too.
00:19:25
Speaker
But one of the ingredients we have in our, in our nightly supplement that we use is called L-theanine, which is just an amino acid. And there's been some research to show that it can help relax your mind, help make it easier for for REM sleep to come.
00:19:41
Speaker
Yeah, even i've I've even like heard like CBD is also yeah okay for for that too, and it's it's helped quite a bit. um Now, where do you get all your knowledge from? like are you like Have you studied this? have you Have you just read a lot about it and and or picked the brains of others who have? or Where where are you like backing all this from?
00:20:01
Speaker
Yeah, yeah it's i it's a great question because I'm not a medical professional. I'll be the first one to admit that. So don't take anything I say as medical advice. it's It's certainly not. yeah um and And, you know, I've gotten to know a network of people.
00:20:17
Speaker
very good like sleep medical professionals and and people that are sleep doctors. But but what ah kind of the an angle that I've taken is becoming more of like a ah sleep coach to people. right You know, take given the sports background and and given that I just really want to help people achieve their goals.
00:20:36
Speaker
I view the knowledge I have as as deep enough to be able to really help people with the practical things to to help them on their way. um But where I find my you know more advanced knowledge, it's great that there's a lot of stuff out there. It's kind of a shame that there isn't more of like a profession or like certification program for people that just want to become more like a performance sleep coach. So I do have certification. I wouldn't say that it's like that yeah the most robust certification process as opposed to, you know, like a nutritionist or, you know, fitness trainer or something like that.
00:21:13
Speaker
But um some of the people that I really enjoy listening to and and reading, I mean, Matt Walker is kind of considered the the godfather of sleep. So if you guys, haven't read his book why we sleep it's a great place to start the one caveat i'll put there is it's a little doom and gloom um in terms of if you don't sleep well these hundred things uh could happen could happen to you um so if you're having sleep problems maybe work on fixing some those sleep problems first and then read it read about it. I was like, I'm telling my mom, who doesn't sleep very well, like, you cannot read this book. It's just going to give me severe anxiety.
00:21:51
Speaker
But he's great. I mean, Huberman puts out, Andrew Huberman, Freyman's not familiar. He's he's got ah you know ah a podcast out that that puts out a lot of good and for information and he has good guests on. A little bit more...
00:22:04
Speaker
um I guess, what's the word I'm looking for? ah Acute or more in the industry. Molly Eastman is somebody that that I really listen to as well. She's she's very specific to sleep only. She's she's great as well.
00:22:18
Speaker
That's awesome. Yeah, I agree with you. There should be sleep coaches. like there's mental There's mental skills coaches. There's coaches like coaches for the
Practical Sleep Tips and Routines
00:22:25
Speaker
actual sport. There's coaches for everything. you know And I think it's important. you know What would you say then...
00:22:32
Speaker
Coach me, like, are there tips to get optimal sleep? Like, are there like the three tips that you would suggest just to everybody? Maybe someone doesn't have this, this aura ring. Yeah. And they just want to like put into practice.
00:22:45
Speaker
So we, so we talked about consistency and what are some other ones? Yeah, i I love that you're asking that because that's what I want people to take away from this. ah you know I want Lagoon to be and me to be an advocate of people just improving the way that they sleep.
00:23:01
Speaker
And yeah, products are somewhere on the list. but But really what you lead with is the routines like general sleep hygiene. Just getting your routine right is by far the most important far and away. It's it's like when I coach people, it's so it's the one thing we work on first before before introducing any elements into it that might enhance their sleep quality.
00:23:22
Speaker
Just getting your your schedule right is number one because our you know our whole sleep is governed by our circadian rhythm. and And really, the consistency is what makes our circadian rhythm fine tune itself.
00:23:36
Speaker
So if you're waking up at different times, if you're going to bed at different times, your body, you're like your your internal clock just doesn't really know what to do with that. But if you get it to the point where you're going to bed at the same time, every time you're waking up around the same time every day, your body just, sleep is gonna come a lot easier. Your cycles are gonna form a lot better.
00:23:57
Speaker
So really the the routine is far and away number one in my book. um A couple of other things I really like. I really think that a lot of people struggle with just stress, anxiety, and not being able to fall asleep.
00:24:13
Speaker
So one thing that I'm really high on is is just trying to put yourself in a good mental place before you go to bed as well, too. ah So some some more tactical things that my wife and I have done over the past couple of years that I think have really helped both of us have been um just trying to make sure that you're ending the day on a positive note and that we're that that sleep is going to come to you, like I said earlier.
00:24:34
Speaker
um So what we do for that is make sure we do a to-do list outside of the bedroom. It's a really easy way of trying to leave your worries outside of the bedroom. So if you ever are, sure you've been there. Everybody's been there. You're lying in in bed awake being like,
00:24:51
Speaker
i have I know I have this thing I have to do tomorrow. yeah And you just sit there and you stew on it and you stress on it. But there's just something very simple about writing it down and and like knowing that it's there, it has its place and you're going to deal with it tomorrow.
00:25:07
Speaker
That's really kind of reassuring. In a similar vein, another thing is just like practicing gratitude. So we always say what we're grateful for that given day. And it just is a nice way of ending the day on on like a nice positive note.
00:25:21
Speaker
um And then the kind of the third thing I would say too, is just make sure that your environment is right. They, they usually say cool, damn, or cool, dark and quiet is, is the the three things you want in your sleep environment too. So whether it's blackout curtains, running the AC um and, and just making sure you've got white noise or something like that to make sure that, that you've got that consistency in your sleep environment can really help a The white noise was, i was going ask you about that actually. um do you use Do you use white noise? I don't know. i don't use anything.
00:25:54
Speaker
I don't have like blackout curtains. We try and keep it cool in the room. So we'll crack a window if anything. You can probably have nice, like pleasant noises outside of your place. Birds chirping 24-7. I'd call that pretty good white noise. If you live in knows you're living in Manhattan and you you have sirens going by. yeah Oh, that's brutal.
00:26:16
Speaker
yeah Yeah. But I like actually the notes, writing the notes down because actually recently I've been struggling with my sleep. I won't lie. And I, you know, ah typically I'm a good sleeper, I'd say, but I've just, it's been wandering, like my mind's been wandering and like things I need to do. And and I think writing the notes down before sleep, because typically, you know, I wake up in the morning, I jot down all the things I need to do for the day, but doing it at the end of the day would be great so that I can Rest and then jumpstart my day.
00:26:45
Speaker
get it out it Just get it out of your mind. yes yeah you You know what they say? They say you need kind of a wind down period or a wind down routine as well, too. And, the you know, I think the the rationale behind why a wind down routine is because we're going a million miles an hour all day long.
00:27:03
Speaker
you know, everybody's got so much that they need to do. And so if you're, you know, if you're typing away, answering emails up until 9.59 and you're trying to be in bed at 10, when you hit send, you're just still jacked. You're just still jacked up. You're still in the zone too. yeah And so it's really hard to then for your mind to then just be like, okay, let me drop to zero and and fall asleep. Now it just doesn't work that way.
00:27:25
Speaker
You need to find a way to shift from being on to being off. And sometimes it takes people a little bit longer period of time. So they may meditate they may do yoga they may stretch they may have a cup of tea or things like that just finding out what works for you though too but you can't carry the momentum you have during the day into the bedroom and think that you're going to be able to to fall asleep to get it done and what would you say about like screen time know this is a problem for a lot of people you know i know yeah like we bring the phones to you know to bed and like
00:27:59
Speaker
Yeah, like i'm I'm into sports and stuff back home. So like I'm checking stuff and setting my lineups. Yeah, setting a lineups. I hear you. Me too.
00:28:09
Speaker
So I'm not as strict on the no screens in bed as you probably hear some people talking about. Mm-hmm. And for me, it's more so what's spiking your cortisol than it is the actual like impact of the like blue light on on inhibiting or like like signaling to your your body any physiological stimuli.
00:28:33
Speaker
I really think that, yeah, maybe there maybe there's some of that too. Yeah. Just to to give you a quick sense of what that is, blue light is typically what you see in the morning.
00:28:44
Speaker
So your you know your body reads that to say, okay, it's daylight it's daylight out. Like your circadian rhythm is coming up and and you should be feeling awake. So what they say about blue light is you know when you're holding your phone, when you see this bright screen, you're confusing your body into thinking that it's daylight.
00:29:01
Speaker
And so it's it's kind of staying more awake than it would otherwise. If you're seeing red lights or things like that, that's kind of what's bringing you down to prepare you for sleep. So that's just like a little bit of the physiological.
00:29:13
Speaker
but But There's probably something there, but I think really the bigger thing is, what are you watching? What are you looking at on your on your screen? um If it's something mind numbing, watching like The Office or Friends or something like that on TV that you've seen a hundred times that is kind of more just comforting,
00:29:36
Speaker
not the worst thing in the world. If you're scrolling politics on X and just just hearing just a bunch of hot takes and like, just, you know, muckraking, just going back and forth over the fence, of course, that's really going to get you fired up and jacked up and not going to be conducive to sleep.
00:29:55
Speaker
Yeah, totally. Yeah. get So like more just calming things, like you could read stuff on your phone or... Yeah. Whatever. But just something that's not going to get you too excited. Setting your fantasy lineup is probably not the worst thing in the world unless you're like one, it two and five right now and and kind of upset about it I'm actually the opposite. I'm five and two right now. so yeah yeah good And we're probably enemies too because I know you're probably a Vikings fan. Yeah.
00:30:22
Speaker
So I'm actually a Bears fan. Oh, okay. So we're still enemies, actually. but probably Yeah, i'm I'm a Packers fan. Packers fan. Okay. yeah yeah But you guys are looking better. Tennessee North is fun this year. It's fun. Oh, my God. Well, Minnesota last lost last night.
00:30:36
Speaker
So it dates this. yeah dish So that's great news for the both of us, actually. yeah Yeah, exactly. um So kind of, I want to know, you know, you're clearly passionate about sleep and and the brand. So what was the, you know, you were with NBC Sports. Like what can I, what i can imagine is like, sounds like a, like a dream for for an athlete, maybe a dream place to work, depending on what you're doing, but why the, why the shift, why this shift?
00:31:04
Speaker
Like, were you so passionate about sleep and and pillows that you you had to leave? Like, what what is the the story for you, you know? Yeah. um it's it's It's a great question because, i don't get me wrong, I loved working at NBC Sports and I always felt so honored to have that experience. So i yeah, grew up as a swimmer. i remember watching, you know, watching the Olympics, watching Tom Dolan in Atlanta win the gold. That's what got me really excited. but about getting into the sport. So I became a swimmer. I swam through college at the university of Virginia. So it just felt like the Olympic movement was such a big part of me.
00:31:43
Speaker
I credit so much of my work ethic, determination, stick to it in this to, to my swim career. So, That's what made me want to go work for NBC Sports was this idea that that I've become this highly motivated individual and I credit so much of it to sport.
00:31:59
Speaker
can i Can I be a part of giving that back and finding a way to get other people involved in sports so that they can and have that in their life? um And so, yeah, I went through the whole ladder, I guess, if you will, at NBC Sports, started as a page giving tours of 30 Rock and doing the grunt work. and and being And then I went on to become an executive assistant to the president of the Olympics group, which was such an awesome seat to to be in to learn more about the business.
00:32:29
Speaker
And then moved into the business development group where I i got to work on major rights deals like Thursday night football and and and then acquiring businesses too, where we acquired a company out Minneapolis, which is where I live now.
00:32:42
Speaker
But what was interesting about that for me, it was almost like the next iteration of why i loved working at NBC sports. I wanted to share these stories of these athletes to motivate people to go out there and do great things themselves.
00:32:54
Speaker
And this company we bought called sports engine, um, is is is like technology for youth sports organizations, the stuff you need to actually facilitate that youth sports can happen. So that was super intriguing to me because it felt like the next generation of how do we get more people out playing and participating in sports, which was awesome. you know yeah We were part of, I think we had 7 million participants on the platform, worked with 30,000 youth sports organizations across the US. So just facilitating sports.
00:33:25
Speaker
was another great chapter in my career too. So then, you know, it it felt maybe a little bit weird to to say, okay, so now you're going to go start a pillow company. it But really, really what it for for me was still the idea behind it all is is fostering in people the ability to go out and do great things.
00:33:46
Speaker
So the pillow was the product, but, but like the product is just serving the need to, to ultimately get to the end, which is what I'm trying to incorporate. And I've always definitely been somebody that, uh,
00:33:58
Speaker
sometimes Sometimes I feel like it's a hindrance to like ah you know professional success, but I feel like I've always needed to have a reason why, like a passion behind what I'm doing to to get up every morning and to really actively pursue it other than you know just collecting a paycheck. So the idea behind, I feel really good about what we're doing at Lagoon just because at the end of the day we're helping people sleep better. And yeah, that's great, but but It's only so great in it because people are sleeping better and then they're, like I said earlier, are accomplishing more great things during the day. And that's what I'm all about. That's what gets me really excited. So just enabling in any way people to be able to perform better.
00:34:39
Speaker
um And it's been really just like a nice natural progression that feels authentic to me to be able to stay in the world of sports and be speaking to athletes about how they can prioritize their sleep. So they can perform better.
00:34:51
Speaker
it can be in a professional sense, but it it can also you know just be in an everyday sense, an amateur sense, or just in a going to work everyday sense as well, too. And not I mean, you have a clear sense of ah why I feel, you know, like and you just said, like, I need to know, you know, why I'm doing something that I'm helping people. And like, that was you you at NBC. Now that's you in your own behind your own brand. Like, where does this where does this come from? Was it was it?
00:35:20
Speaker
um your Did it all come from being a competitive athlete or did it did it come from a mentor or parents? I'm just curious about that. Because a lot of people search for that. I mean, they just crush it they search for it for years, you know?
00:35:34
Speaker
You know, what it's, it's a I don't know. It it feels it's like it's been a little bit innate for me, but i I do distinctly remember right a year or two after I came out of college, I was having a conversation with my dad and one of his best friends.
00:35:49
Speaker
And they were both talking about their work. They'd both done really well professionally. um And I told them, we were talking about how I wanted to make a lot of money, but I wanted to like love what I'm doing.
00:35:59
Speaker
And they they were basically telling me, you you kind of have to choose. Like, we're okay with what we do. but But, you know, at the end of the day, they had families that they needed to provide for. And and so it's almost like they they made ah sacrifice in the sense that,
00:36:14
Speaker
not necessarily incredibly passionate about what they were doing, but they're passionate about raising their families. They're passionate about providing. And so I, I get all that too, but maybe for me, it's just more than the sense that, um,
00:36:28
Speaker
I don't know. Yeah. I just, I just feel like for me to be able to get up every day and and like keep doing what I'm doing, i need to be excited about it. I have, I guess I kind of have a little bit of a hard time to separating work from personal life.
00:36:41
Speaker
I, especially when you're, you know, when you're an entrepreneur, the blur, the lines blur a good bit too, but I don't feel like building Lagoon is going to work for me. I just feel like it's Probably what I'd be choosing to do if I didn't need to, you know, if I didn't need to do anything at all.
00:36:57
Speaker
um And that's what I don't know. I hope everybody i hope everybody finds that or thinks about life that way to some extent. Because it didn't sound doesn't sound like you weren't liking going to NBC Sports to work.
00:37:11
Speaker
And that but it just sounds like the idea of starting your own thing. maybe appeal to you more at but ah that moment. You know, it's like yeah some people leave something because they hate it and like, they just, this is the way out, you know?
00:37:24
Speaker
it doesn't sound like that that's the case for you. It just went from like something good to another thing that's also good. You know, just different things. For me, was the idea for sure of the the the thought of not doing the thought of not doing it. So I've had this idea in my head for a while of wanting to be an entrepreneur.
00:37:44
Speaker
And it just feels like the further you get down your professional career, the harder it it becomes to take that leap. um I wish I remember the name of the book, but there's a really great book out there called like when i think it's called When to Jump.
00:37:58
Speaker
um that That just talks about you know how the timing is never going to be perfect, but you really have to at least put in some work to understand that the decision you're making makes good sense to leave what, what as you go through your professional career, becomes more and more lucrative. right So if you're making $50,000 right out of college, years later, years later,
00:38:23
Speaker
it just gets harder and harder to leave the bigger and bigger paycheck Because you're probably making, if you're starting your own thing, you're you're making $0 almost no matter no matter why out of the gate too.
00:38:34
Speaker
So the the switching costs just become higher and higher. um So I really had to think carefully about could Could I do it? We we hadn't had kids yet.
00:38:45
Speaker
My wife is so incredibly supportive of it. I probably am ah maybe just a ah little too bright-eyed, bushy-tailed, or just not forward-looking enough to be like, whatever, I'll figure out a way to make money. If it doesn't work, I'll figure out a way to make money later on in life.
00:39:01
Speaker
Someone who's more risk-averse as her, she's like, well, you're not making money now. That is a rational thought that every potential entrepreneur out there should consider. um But I wish I could tell you that I figured it out or I know what the the like right answer is to in terms of.
00:39:19
Speaker
Did I make the right choice? Did I make the wrong choice? will Will it ultimately work out better in the end for me or worse in the end for me? All still completely undecided, but I can say for sure that that like I feel really.
00:39:34
Speaker
happy that I'm trying. And I and i can say with 100% certainty that if you're looking for like a good challenge, which I know a lot of us endurance athletes are, by far the hardest thing I've ever by far the hardest thing i've ever done. is And it's like not even close. Training for an Ironman, raising a kid, whatever it is.
00:39:52
Speaker
For those things, there are like scripts to follow at least. In starting a business, oh my God, things just go wrong and you've got to find your own path and follow your own path and And things just for a long period of time never go right. And and you just got to wonder, trust, is is perseverance the right answer or am I being stupid right now? And you you you don't necessarily always know.
00:40:14
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, it's true. And was there like overlap between the two ah career paths? I did do, i did kind of moonlight for, yeah,
00:40:26
Speaker
We technically launched Lagoon in August of 2021, and I left my job in in March of 2022. So for people that are kind of considering that jump, figuring out how you know potentially to to work on your offboarding route two can you build at night a little bit?
00:40:46
Speaker
Great if you can. it was getting the point where things weren't working with Lagoon, and I knew that I couldn't devote 40 hours a week to my job and then still actually try and get something out of, out of park.
00:40:59
Speaker
It just wasn't, it just wasn't working. I had to devote all my time to doing it, but I did, I did think strategically, even my bosses knows at this point, but like waited till my bonus, you know, till my bonus game, waited till we had a little bit more money in the bank so that I had a little bit more runway to give myself knowing that times were going to be a little bit leaner there in the beginning for sure.
00:41:18
Speaker
Yeah. you So what year did you start? 2020? 2021. Yeah. Yeah. yeah i saw interview yeah Yeah. During COVID. It was funny. Our COVID activity was, I mean, I ordered pillows from 50 different places and my wife and I were just trying pillows from, from you name it, ah just to try and figure out what types of materials we like best. What was ultimately going to go into our lineup of the pillows. Yeah.
00:41:45
Speaker
So what would you say the biggest, like you said, it's like the hardest thing you've ever done? Like, what's the, what are the early challenges that you had and like, or continue to have? And like, how do you, how do you persevere through that? You know, when, when there is doubt, you know, like you're the one that's going to drive it. You're, you're the responsible person and it follows on you at the end. Right.
00:42:06
Speaker
Yeah, i think I think that last part is what is what's a little bit liberating or what I like about entrepreneurship. This is me coming from an ops role previously where a lot of what I was doing was cleaning up other people's mess.
00:42:20
Speaker
yes too that did So that did frustrate me to certain extent. But now if I have a problem, it's my problem you know it's my problem. I either created it or I invited it or yeah i knew I knew what I was getting into for sure.
00:42:32
Speaker
geez. but but cheese I mean, we could we could talk for another couple hours just in yeah terms of well werere what were the biggest challenges that I had to overcome. i think I think the thing that I do credit myself for a little bit, at least, like I am pretty good about when when I learn something, learn it and and put it in action and move ahead. I don't need to learn the same hard lesson over and over again.
00:42:56
Speaker
So I learned many hard lessons, but hopefully learned learned the first time and and iterated on them. But I mean, yeah, going from we started in a third party logistics warehouse where I thought we were going be sending orders out, you know, 10 to 20 orders out every day. We were sending like two orders out a week and I was paying $500 a week in warehousing costs.
00:43:19
Speaker
So, you know, so I was just bleeding money. So, you know, I had to pull up our inventory out of this, this 3PL and move it into our, my garage in my basement did back in 2021.
00:43:30
Speaker
um you know ordered 5 000 boxes because i thought i had figured out the right box we would need but then lo and behold our business model changed and instead of shipping out three pillows at once we were more focused on shipping out one pillow one so still have boxes to this day that i ordered from yeah from 2021 so just figuring out how to balance you know your lowest moqs possible to to really test and learn um and then and then really just trying to make sure that you actually understand and and find product market fit and i didn't have product market fit out of the gate when i launched i wasn't really trying to be a pillow for athletes i was trying to be a pillow for everybody because that's kind of what you think not only athletes need pillows everybody needs pillows so why would i only target athletes when everybody and everybody could use this product which is totally true yeah but
00:44:20
Speaker
And when you when you talk to everybody, you're actually talking to nobody and you're competing against Casper who has millions of dollars in marketing budget. and And, you know, like I said previously, 10,000 reviews on their website and you're just never going to beat them.
00:44:34
Speaker
So really trying to figure out who who it is you're speaking to and tailoring the product specifically to them. That was things that that definitely took time too. So those were some of the early learnings. But like I said, I could go on for for hours there.
00:44:48
Speaker
It's a good thing you moved out of the warehouse. The story is always better when when you started with, I started out of my basement. it's like That's like that the entrepreneur, you know, like whatever the business is.
00:45:00
Speaker
Well, I guess our story will have to be a little different. We started somewhere else. We had to move back to the head minute to the basement because like we realized they had to start from the basement and it was a mistake. I should have known. i should've known every great Every great company starts from your garage. I got too excited. yeah It's just so cool. you know My friend has a hat business and that his dad was selling him out of the basement. So it's like...
00:45:25
Speaker
I mean, i think about all these stories now like that are coming to mind and it's like selling car parts out of his basement or yeah know living or lived whatever. so really You really do have to start small. And I think what's super interesting too is with like a direct to consumer, you know, where you're selling a physical product type of business, um like your your costs don't need to be high. You know, coming from the world of media or technology where you need to hire all these developers and and you have like a cash burn rate and all these things too.
00:45:55
Speaker
With a direct-to-consumer business, if you know your economics and you know what it takes to get somebody to but like how much it takes to get somebody to buy one of your products, you're actually selling a physical good. you actually should be making You can be making money on day one, too.
00:46:09
Speaker
So if you can just figure out product market fit and get to people to actually buy your product, you don't need to be investing in all of these costs. You don't need to hire all of these people, too.
00:46:21
Speaker
Back to the point why you seem you know why you see me ah like I'm the only full-time employee at Lagoon still. I have some part-time people now, fortunately, to help with some things. yeah but But you're way leaner and and you know much bigger of a business than you know to get to million dollars in a SaaS business or something like that. You probably need to hire 10 or 20 people to to get there. It's just very different in a D2C business.
00:46:46
Speaker
Were there any early signs for you, like looking back? Like, for example, I used to cut grass and like made flyers and, and you know, I was cutting 15 lawns during my summer. and you know, it's just something inherent in you. Like, how am I going to make money? You go out get a job or you just...
00:47:03
Speaker
do hard labor or whatever, painting or whatever. Was there anything like looking back that you could say like, oh yeah, I had some kind of entrepreneurship. and You know, ah not till, not till later for me, for sure. And I don't hold it against my parents. because they gave me so many great opportunities. And really for me, it was just because swimming was such a big part of of my upbringing. So I was swimming 50 weeks out of the year from the time I was 13 to the time I was 23, 22, 23. So I never really just had time for those side hustles.
00:47:39
Speaker
But i i think there's something really, really value about it. I definitely plan on doing it with my kid about just... just that idea of of figuring out different ways to make make money or or like thinking of cool novel ideas what business ideas could be i do i have a friend too or you know he was fortunate enough to sell his business um and and now he's just doing this small little business on the side but he's having his kids help with the books and they're talking to customers and things like this and it's like man that's just
00:48:12
Speaker
I couldn't think of a better, a better education to give younger kids. You know, we, we focus on math and history so much too, but when you get into the real world, what's, what's more real world than that? So I just think it's really, really cool. I would love to do something like that. I'm glad you have that entrepreneurial spirit as, as a kid yourself. I think, i think every parent should try and foster it to some extent in their kid. Yeah.
00:48:35
Speaker
and Yeah. it's And so I think to like looking back then, my goals were so simple. It's like I wanted to buy something that I want, you know, or save up for a car yeah when I was older.
00:48:48
Speaker
And it was just so innocent. like I didn't worry about like setting up a business, a company with the government paying taxes. Like you're like 13 years old, 14 years thirteen years ah fourteen years old Like, it just cash. You're still just getting out there. You're still getting out there and you're, and you're figuring it out. Right. I mean, I think all the rest of the stuff comes as you mature and develop and and that too. But I think it's just that, that mentality of, yeah, let me go out there and and do this myself. I think that's really, really cool. Like putting yourself out there, you know, and like customer service, like, Hey, you missed the spot over there. Oh, I'll get right to it, sir. You know, like, you know, or I'll do this. I'll do the next cut for free or whatever it is. You know, it's,
00:49:28
Speaker
Yeah. You know, you just you're just like troubleshooting kind of my whippersnapper book. I'll come back, you know, or whatever yeah the trimmer, I guess. I don't know if everybody calls it whippersnapper, but um can you lean but lean into your swimming background? Like how was it growing up as a kid? How did you fall into swimming?
00:49:46
Speaker
um And now, you know, you transitioned to running and I've heard triathlon too. So um I just want to know kind of like as an athlete perspective, we talked the business side, kind of more about you and kind of How did you become an athlete and kind of your background in that?
00:50:05
Speaker
I started swimming when I was 12 or 13. We were in California at the time. So pretty good swim culture and kind of in the like Monterey Bay area um is where where we were.
00:50:18
Speaker
My older sister started swimming. My mom bribed me with some basketball cards and that got and got me to go to practice. But I definitely just had, oh, sorry, I started swimming sooner than that. we were We must have been like like eight or 10.
00:50:32
Speaker
It was when we moved to we moved to DC when we when I was 12 and started taking it more seriously then. And I distinctly remember, you know, as as a 12-year-old, I hadn't really developed that that in in innate in in me desire to want to work hard yet. I was kind of doing what the coaches told me, going where my mom dropped me um But that's where the switch happened for me between 12 and 13, where I started to have a switch of like, oh okay, if I want to be good at this, I have to work hard at it. This is a choice that I'm making.
00:51:07
Speaker
yeah So fast forward to like later in life, i up until we had our kid in in March, was doing coaching. And that's the age that I love coaching just because it does feel to me, or at least it was my experience, that's where kids are starting to develop this idea.
00:51:24
Speaker
Okay, I understand that it requires hard work and it requires me wanting this to to move up. So I started taking it more seriously through like seventh, eighth grade. I started to get better because of that.
00:51:36
Speaker
Um, and then into high school, um, I swam with a, uh, a club that's called now called nation's capital in DC. Um, and, and yeah, I, I, I got a partial scholarship to university of Virginia, which was awesome. I, I, uh,
00:51:54
Speaker
in 2004 finaled at Olympic trials in the 200 breaststroke, which was me right right right about the time I was going into into college. So that was an awesome experience to start my college career. And then yeah, through college had had the chance to go to NCAAs, competed NCAAs.
00:52:13
Speaker
Virginia, we we we had our first ever top 10 finish what when I was there my my last year, which was great. um Did an extra year. registered year just to train for the 2008 Olympic trials.
00:52:28
Speaker
had ah Had a pretty good performance there, too. Did better than in 2004. um So, you know, I was just really grateful to have a really competitive experience. I got to travel internationally as part of like the World University Games, World Short Course Championships. So it was fun to get to experience the sport.
00:52:48
Speaker
Never qualify for the Olympics in swimming. You have to finish top two at at finals. Seventh was the highest i ever finished. But it's kind of like in swimming, you know, once you make that final eight, you're either you're either first or second or you're seventh. It doesn't matter. So you kind of just got to go for it and send it and see if you see if you can can make it happen.
00:53:07
Speaker
um So, yeah, you know, I would have loved to, but it would have always been it would have always been have been a reach for me to actually qualify for the Olympics. I think in in swimming to probably one of the things that that I never fully was able to get my mentality right around was there's this idea of like qualifying or making the olympics team but making the olympic team in the u.s is so hard yeah especially in like swimming too i mean you hear stories about the the third fastest person in the world was the the third person at u.s s olympic trials that didn't even make the you know didn't even make the olympics like that's happened before too so i never really got my mentality past like
00:53:49
Speaker
you're, you're going for this round. You're trying to make the Olympics where I think really the mentality you have to have to be an Olympian for the U especially on the swim team is I'm going to be the best in the world at this. I'm going to win the gold medal at the Olympics because that's almost the caliber you really need to be at in order just to, to make the Olympic team. So never quite got myself to, to that level. Um,
00:54:12
Speaker
But it was ah it was ah it was a great career. And then, you know, I think leaving leaving swimming, leaving sports, ah probably the hardest thing for me really was, well, I did get, you know, i did get fat, my you know, after NCAAs ended, just like I'm sure every college athlete goes through that phase for for a minute and and, you know, not doing the partying that or are making up for the party that I didn't do while I was competing, but that was pretty short lived. And then I realized I needed to to get, you know, to get into some back into some routine and just to start feeling good.
00:54:45
Speaker
Um, but not having that support network around me was really difficult. you know, even though you think of swimming as an individual sport, I'm sure people think of running as an individual sport too, but it's so much about the community, so much about the mutual accountability, so much about,
00:54:59
Speaker
just going through hard things together that that really makes it so much more enjoyable. So then you're kind of like out on your own. And, and you know, I was lucky enough in the DC area to find a good cycling group that I joined up with to, you know, to go on long rides on Saturdays and or Sundays.
00:55:15
Speaker
and And so that got me really back into endurance sports. And so when I started biking, people were like, well, you can swim and you can bike. should probably do triathlons. And I was like, no, but I hate running. i like i hate running.
00:55:29
Speaker
and And it didn't take very long before people before people wore me down. So I started doing some triathlons and and that was kind of my thing for a while. I never was super competitive because I was a pretty bad runner for the first few years for sure.
00:55:43
Speaker
Um, but, but ultimately that, that became, you know, just as time has become more limited, uh, focusing more on running, it's just so easy to throw your shoes on and go out for a run in the mornings as opposed to, uh, sometimes my leash was, was a little bit, uh,
00:56:01
Speaker
too long. i'm I'm going on five and six hour bike rides on Saturday. I say that now. It's like, it's a big, like I was single at the time. i you know, I mean, I, all I had time for was to train and it,
00:56:17
Speaker
You just decide to go and you go. But the more people are involved, the harder it is, actually. Especially when you're not winning the things. so yeah Especially when you're trying to get adequate sleep as well. yeah Yes, of course. We've got to always tie it back to sleep. i mean it is true that there's only so many hours in the day, right? How are going to sleep eight hours and bike for five hours and maintain all your family commitments? It's just, it just, it gets to be a lot. You do have to make trade-offs. That's first on the page, eight hours sleep. And then you figure out what to do with the rest of it.
00:56:52
Speaker
Um, Is 12, like is 12, is that age late to start for swimming or like, I don't know, because I know for like, let's say hockey, east other sports, like developmentally, like I started hockey at 12. So, yeah, but I know it's probably a bit late, but I wonder if it's the same for swimming.
00:57:12
Speaker
Yes, yeah it would be it would be late. Yeah, I mean, um but it varies. It varies more so now. I definitely have known people that started swimming late and have been really, really,
00:57:27
Speaker
successful later on in their professional career. I think one of things that ah works in favor of that for swimming is there's such high burnout in in swimming. right I'm sure the same is probably true and in track and stuff growing up, but but just a sport where you're just you're not playing a game, you're not playing a sport, you're not like going to practice and competing every day.
00:57:52
Speaker
You're just going to practice and you're grinding, you're getting your butt kicked every day. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, it's not really a surprise that there's a high burnout. So, you know, if somebody has been doing that from the age of eight to the age 18, it's sometimes really hard for them to keep going for another four years in college.
00:58:09
Speaker
Um, but yeah, I, I will even say in my experience, so I did a fifth year, yeah like i said, I did a fifth year and that fifth year, I was luckily lucky enough to have ah a good NCAAs and end on a really high note, but it, it took me everything in me to, to,
00:58:24
Speaker
to get to the finish line, I was gassed. I w I was done. I needed to stop staring at that black line on the bottom. Right. Yeah. I was going say, did you have always have like a, a positive relationship to, to the sport? And, and also like, did you understand your own potential or was it somebody that like pointed it out, a coach, a mentor? I was, I was like asking about like potential and,
00:58:47
Speaker
You know, sometimes we don't realize until someone's like, hey, you're pretty good at this, you know. Yeah, I think one of the it was my high school coach or my high school club coach. One of the things he said to me was, I know what's best for you. You don't know what's best for you.
00:59:01
Speaker
have and And he's like, you need to trust me. and And so I just put my head down and I did the work and I trusted him. And and I didn't you know, i didn't ask questions. I just did it. And if he gave me a challenge, even if it was greater than what the you know, my friends around me were doing, I did i did it and I just ate it up.
00:59:20
Speaker
And and I think that really, really made an impact for me. um and And it kind of instilled in me this idea that that, yeah, I had to enjoy the pain or like enjoy the suffering. And I think swimmers and endurance runners definitely have that and and that in common.
00:59:40
Speaker
um So that that kind of was a key unlock for me, for sure. It's interesting that, you know, that... some kids have it some kids don't like this work ethic.
00:59:52
Speaker
Cause I, I remember when I was, I got into hockey at 12, so I couldn't even skate. Like I would barely skated and going to tryouts. And being in Montreal, I'm sure. is Yeah. Right. but A lot of pressure there, you know, yeah but, um,
01:00:05
Speaker
Just, I always, like I knew skating was important for the game. Like the stick handling stuff I could figure out after, but like, I just remember always doing the drills, like as hard as like, I was known as like the endurance skater, let's say, even though I lacked skill, like i could I could just, I would just, the coach was like, good, do sprints or whatever. And i would just go and do it. And I would keep working and working.
01:00:27
Speaker
Cause I knew that would help my skating, even if it hurt. Right. But as a kid, like this is something like you just shut the brain off and you're just like, But it's just interesting, like those things that we do. Do you feel like you have a good good way of of teaching that? Because even as ah as a coach, you know, I feel like I always tried to instill in that that that idea of ah wanting to work hard and wanting to suffer.
01:00:50
Speaker
But but it does it doesn't always resonate with people. I'd be curious to your experience, too. Yeah, yeah I don't know. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I agree. Like, there's that finding that line, right? But, like, when you're doing sprints on the ice and, like, start, stop, start, stop, start, stop, like, that's, like, the the hardest thing you can do in practice. And and I would just, love like, I loved it.
01:01:09
Speaker
Like, I would just keep, like, going and try and keep up with the the fastest skaters. And i just remember that so vividly. But, Same applies now. Like I have no quit when I'm training and i yeah I can, if I'm physically able to, I'll, I'll do it. I'll push myself on the track. I'll push like as hard as I can. Cause that for me, that's the only way you can push the line, you know, that's like some simple understanding of it that I have.
01:01:32
Speaker
um yeah obviously without getting hurt. Right. But it's, it's pretty interesting because I feel like there's, there's such a focus to, I mean, if you're on social media, everybody talks so, so much now about zone two training and, you know, but the the majority of your training needs to be zone two. Yeah.
01:01:50
Speaker
I, I get that. And I think, i think most people get that, but I do feel like we've, we've lost a little bit of the, you've really got to bust your butt and you've got to be able to more. its some yeah i feel like it's almost a little faux pas to talk about that sometimes. yeah and Honestly, if I can if i be honest, like I dislike that a lot.
01:02:10
Speaker
i dislike that a lot like yeah i I love working hard. like and ah And i think ah i mean I think it's great. you know like There's so many groups and things you can join to social like socialize and stuff.
01:02:24
Speaker
But there has to be this component of competitiveness and hard work and like to to work that other side of it. Because 80% is going to be this like you know the 80-20 rule.
01:02:34
Speaker
This easy stuff. But then when it's time to go to work, you go to work. you know And that's... And that's the grind that I love. And actually, my friend created this run back home. um He'll like that I mentioned it. but And it was designed around this. It was there designed around people that wanted to get together to work hard on this this specific track on the mountain ah trails near our our place.
01:02:57
Speaker
And to go out ah go all out and try and just like push yourself to go faster on this track. every week. And if you didn't want to like your lungs to burn and your legs to hurt, like don't, you just didn't show up, you know, like as brutal as that might sound like, yeah, we've got like, it it kept, you know, hardens us a little bit ah when everything's so easy, like to make improvements and gains, like you have to go there and,
01:03:24
Speaker
Isn't there something great though about doing that with, with people yeah that want to suffer as well too? yeah That's what it it is a lot harder in life to, to find, you know, to find that. So when you, when you, when you got a group like that, that's pretty awesome.
01:03:37
Speaker
Yeah. And you would know that too, from your swimming days, like as a team, right? Like you're pushing each other and, and practice and trying to do the reps in the in the pool. And, you know, like you want to be, hit your splits just as quick as the next guy. And like, I think, well, I read a book, uh, it was met it like, it was a book around like, uh, forget what it was called, but anyways, it was talking about this, like this coach and he was creating this, this coaching method. And one of the vast athletes was Meb, you know, Meb Kofleska. Yeah.
01:04:06
Speaker
And he talks about how they would go in the trails and just didn't have a time or anything like that and just push the pace on these these rolling hills. and And this is how they would do their temple work, you know? And it was like the the sum of the team that would create this pace and and just pushing each other a little bit further each time that created like this this capacity, right?
01:04:29
Speaker
I love that. And yeah I got to find the name of the book now, but... um and And I thought it was so interesting. jump in the show notes i yeah Yeah, for sure. But I thought that was so interesting, like how we can just, without looking at speeds or anything like that, we can like just keep pushing each other as long as you have like a group of athletes that are somewhat at the same level. Right.
01:04:48
Speaker
Well, it sounds like that's what we need to, we need to create. We need to, you know, not just the the Friday morning fun run groups. We need to, we need to create some, Tuesday morning suffer. Yeah. Like, tre like, like, let's go like ah track. That's why like track so much too. It's like, even if you're different speeds, you can still like follow the feet in front of you and you like, you're going in circles. So you still like the slow people and the fast people kind of see each other and can socialize, but you're all working hard at whatever level you're at. And that's the important part.
01:05:20
Speaker
It's the comparison that gets us into trouble. I find a little bit. yeah Anyways, you're getting me all worked up. I'm not gonna be able to sleep.
01:05:28
Speaker
Um, yeah, but I do think that's really interesting for sure. And, and so like, then that translates, you know, you're going to do triathlon and, and more running. Like, do you have, do you have a preference for one versus the other? Or is it just like, that was so one point in your life and now you're kind of shifting? Yeah, I would say, you know, since I'm not, I'm not, you know, really like,
01:05:51
Speaker
standing on any podiums or anything nowadays, yeah for me, for me, it really is just about the the challenge. And I feel like one thing I developed coming out of swimming was I knew, i knew I was never going to be as good of a 200 breaststroker as I was, you know, at the, you know, my last day in college, because I'm never going to swim 20 hours a week again. But, yeah but that doesn't mean that I'm not going to run a faster marathon time or, or, or do X, Y, or Z. So um I feel like since,
01:06:21
Speaker
ah throughout my adulthood, I've always tried to look for new challenges, something, something different to, to, to say that I can like actually look at being better, better or the the best at at that one thing. Um, so, you know, started with Olympic tries was getting good at those better at those, you know, beating times then, you know, did a 70.3, then moved on to an Ironman. And, and, you know, as I've, as I've, uh,
01:06:50
Speaker
Been focused on running more too. Done a couple marathons, wanted to try doing an ultra, you know, did a 50K, did a 50 miler. So what, you know, what's next? and And just, just being able to do different things, uh, has been what keeps me motivated. So it's not necessarily just about going, well, especially not in ultra marathons. Nobody really cares about your time, which is what, is what I like.
01:07:12
Speaker
what I'm like now, but, but just making it a new challenge for yourself, something that you haven't done before, has been really excited. So I'm turning, I'm turning 40, uh, next year.
01:07:24
Speaker
uh, I think, I think I want to make 40 the first time I do a hundred mile. or I feel like that's just like, uh, some big round, some big round numbers would be a really fun goal. Yeah, you were bang on. We are very close in age. I'm i'm turning like 40 in a week.
01:07:38
Speaker
Oh, nice. Yeah. Actually, maybe that this will be the my birthday episode. Okay. Well, then this is me saying happy birthday, Justin. Oh, thanks. Thank you. um but that We're not too far off either. Mine's ah umm um ah October 15th. Oh, cool. Yeah.
01:07:55
Speaker
Yeah. November 6th for me. um Do you feel like your your background in swimming, even though it was a different sport, the the mentality or the training helps you to prepare for for the events you're preparing for now? Like, is there something in, you know, there's certain things like mentality and, and you know, hard work and all these things that can transfer, but do you find that it's also transferred to...
01:08:20
Speaker
like the $50 that you trained for? i think, I think the, the, probably the two most obvious things are you just like get up and you do the work. Right. So always it used to just getting up early in the morning and yeah, it sucks jumping into a cold pool, but you just, you just do it. You just do it. Right. That's that's the one thing. And then the other thing I would say, yeah, it's just your capacity to, to suffer as has been the other thing too. So yeah,
01:08:46
Speaker
okay being uncomfortable okay pushing yourself a little bit further and then maybe maybe ah finding ways to entertain yourself while you know while you're by yourself for a long period of time yeah is is the other thing as well now i listen to we couldn't really listen to headphones when you're swimming so but so it's nice even running or sometimes on the bike being able to listen to books or podcasts or whatever is there something you're listening to now like what uh what are you into um i do ah i do a lot of books for sure.
01:09:18
Speaker
you mentioned a few. And a couple of favorite podcasts, you know business, current events. I do do even like a couple e-commerce ones too, just to feel like I'm learning about the business while I'm while i'm working out too.
01:09:37
Speaker
But yeah, for for sometimes early morning, you know, I'm sure you get this too, right? Sometimes there's a different mood or feeling for everything as well too. When you're doing a 5.30 workout may not be the best time to to be trying trying to think strategically about the business.
01:09:51
Speaker
Might be a time for like a ah fiction or something like that instead. Totally. Yeah, I got used to no music with the triathlon training because but you're not allowed on course. So I stopped doing that for a while, but slowly getting back into it.
01:10:05
Speaker
What would you say? So sorry, go ahead. Let me ask you. Let me ask you on that one. Like, how do you what what do you do to to keep yourself focused and? Yeah, I mean, just having a goal, like just having something on the calendar always helps for sure. yeah um i got you but you But even like during those long sessions, if you're not listening to music or not distracting yourself.
01:10:25
Speaker
Yeah. um Yeah, I don't know. I i usually change up my route quite a bit. um It's either i change up my route if I've gotten bored or I use the same route over and over again.
01:10:37
Speaker
So like I know where I'm at. um But or I have like a few tracks that I like to to do so I can like pick and choose, but like taking the guesswork out of it. But to be honest, sometimes I feel like getting lost and sometimes I feel like not thinking about a route. So it's really around.
01:10:55
Speaker
where I will run that that changes. Here, there's long stretches of road where I can either along the river, um I can run for like many kilometers and hours, or we can go in like the mountains close by. um It's not as like the Alps or anything, but you know, some nice trails and stuff you can get lost into. So for the most part, and then, yeah, and then I get thinking about whatever comes to mind or or nothing at all, you know, and sometimes it's just like being, having the peace too, that that's quite nice and like getting lost and forgetting yourself and not focusing on pace or anything like that. Just, yeah.
01:11:33
Speaker
Yeah. I think we could all use some more of that for sure. Yeah, totally. Like I use my watch just to track my runs and stuff, but never like focused on pace. It's always on effort for myself personally. But, um and what what would you say like sports has given you like brought to your life?
01:11:51
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, so, so much for sure. um but I mean the, the most obvious kind of we've, we've covered in terms of, I just feel like it's formed my personality and my drive. Um, I really think that, that, um,
01:12:08
Speaker
that's been the foundation for everything that I've built personally, professionally. um It's made me who I am. So, you know, from a very like fundamental sense, I feel like I i owe it in very large part to to sport.
01:12:25
Speaker
And then, and then, you know, I think, I think just more on the surface as well too, it's, it's, it's developed, you know, my passion in in terms of like what it is that I just do that that I do and enjoy, right. It's, it's my activities, it's my hobby, it's, it's my work.
01:12:44
Speaker
So it's, it's really not just, not just like the inherent stuff, but, but also just the the day-to-day things too. It's all about sport. And I think that's great. I think, you know, as you, as you take a step way back and and you look at kind of the impact we're we're making on this world.
01:13:06
Speaker
You want to do something that's that's like ah like a big bucket important too, right? and And just helping people sleep better to perform better. Like, is that really worth it? And and like, just helping people live really healthy and and and be the best they can be so they can can choose to make whatever impact they want to make.
01:13:25
Speaker
You know I think those are really big bucket things. That's why I think i think sports and fitness is so important. I don't operate well. I don't think
Motivation and Commitment in Sports
01:13:34
Speaker
straight. I don't feel motivated. if i I'm not good at time management if I'm not working out, if I'm not involved in sports.
01:13:41
Speaker
So I just assume the same is true for everybody else as well, too. So doesn't that inherently mean that that sports is just a really important part of what we're doing every day? I think it really is. Yeah.
01:13:54
Speaker
Totally. And what what would be your best advice for somebody looking to try a new sport or go the next distance and in whatever sport they're doing? I would say just commit, just commit to it. Right.
01:14:06
Speaker
if you if If you feel like you might try it and then, and then give up and don't want to sign up for a race, you know, but it tell Tell somebody that you know is gonna hold you accountable. Do so do something that that actually is gonna make you invest in it because the worst thing you'll have is is if you feel like you didn't really give it your your best honest effort.
01:14:30
Speaker
That's why you know even just now, right? I love, I love telling people in a forum like this, that I'm thinking about running a hundred miler. Yeah. Cause now I feel more accountable myself to actually go out and do it because it's out there.
01:14:42
Speaker
Uh, and somebody is going to ask me about it and that's good because that pushes me to do something that maybe I've been waffling. Yeah.
Social Media and Listener Engagement
01:14:48
Speaker
So hit up, it hit up Ryan's DMS and, uh, encourage him come on October 15th, you know, um, Oh, and happy belated birthday, I should say. Right. So thank you. Thank you. Yeah.
01:15:00
Speaker
Um, Where can we find out more about you, Ryan, about your brand, about these wonderful pillows? And you're not, that wasn't a plug for guys, not a sponsor or anything. I just free-faced it, you know, so...
01:15:14
Speaker
Yeah, no, i would say Instagram is definitely where we're most we're um most active. Our handle Lagoon Sleep. um and And I really try and make it not not so much just about the product that we're selling. I really do want us to be ah resource for for teaching about proper rest and recovery.
01:15:36
Speaker
um So follow us if you're interested in that stuff. Typically, if you if you want more too, I do a newsletter every Thursday. You can sign up on lagoon sleep.com where we do like five quick hits of just stories that I think are pretty interesting in the world of sleep and fitness.
01:15:52
Speaker
It's kind of written in the ah same way Morning Brew Daily is like five quick hits, my quick summary and perspective. So yeah, check it out. I think everybody should just learn a little bit more about about sleep and how it impacts performance.
01:16:05
Speaker
Amazing. Well, I hope people check it out. and And I want to thank you so much for coming on here, Ryan. It was really great talking to you, getting to know you a little bit better and and sharing your story.
01:16:18
Speaker
um my my hope is that we we didn't put people to sleep with the conversation. got a picture We got him excited about sleep. Listen him in the morning so you're not so jacked up at night. exactly Exactly. And I wish you all the best. yeah Thanks for having me, Justin. It was really awesome chat with you. yeah Awesome.
01:16:35
Speaker
Have a good one. All right. Take care.
01:16:40
Speaker
Thanks for tuning in to the Just In Stride podcast. I truly appreciate you taking the time to listen and I hope you enjoyed that conversation as much as I did. Please take a minute after this to rate and review our show on Apple Podcasts.
01:16:52
Speaker
With your feedback, we'll be able to make the show even better and it'll help us reach new listeners too. You can also find us on Instagram at JustinStridePod for all the latest episodes and updates.
01:17:04
Speaker
Of course, this show wouldn't be possible without a solid team behind me. With logo and design by Vanessa Pugliese, as well as audio, music, and editing by Forrest McKay, a huge thank you goes out to both of them.
01:17:17
Speaker
Guest outreach, social media, writing, and advertising are handled by me, your host, Justin Pugliese. Finally, we'd like to thank you, our listeners, for coming along for the ride with Justin Stride.