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Rob Watson on his love of running and pursuit of the Olympic dream, life after running, finding other ways to test himself physically, love of cycling and triathlon, coaching other on how to achieve their goals
133 Plays4 months ago
I always find it fascinating how our passion can take on many forms and mean different things to us throughout our lives. I also believe you need to do things you want to do while you’re healthy and while you can because the opportunity to do so may not always be there. So get out there and do what you love for as long as you can.
On this episode of Just In Stride I shared a great conversation with former pro marathon and now coach, Rob Watson.
Simply put, Rob was a pure talent and wanted to run fast. He ran in school and after, in pursuit of his Olympic dream.
He never actually made an Olympic team but it certainly wasn’t for a lack of trying. He ran huge mileage and went all in on his training, traveling to compete in order to make strides in his sport. He’s won 4 national titles and qualified for a bunch of international competitions, including 2 world championships. Today he enjoys sharing his expertise and knowledge with others through coaching, in order to help athletes achieve their own goals.
Rob Watson — Mile2Marathon Coach
Rob Watson (@robtalksrunning) • Instagram photos and videos
Rob talks Running | Podcast on Spotify
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Thanks for tuning in to the Just In Stride Podcast. I truly appreciate you taking the time to listen and I hope you enjoyed that conversation as much as I did. Please take a minute after this to rate and review our show on Apple Podcasts. With your feedback we’ll be able to make the show even better and it’ll help us reach new listeners too. You can also find us on Instagram @justinstridepod and YouTube @justinstridepod for all the latest episodes and updates. Glad you came along for the ride with Just In Stride!
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Transcript
Introduction & Social Media
00:00:03
Speaker
Hello, and welcome to the Justin's Drive podcast. I'm your host, Justin Puyese. If you love endurance sports, you've definitely come to the right place. On this show, we'll talk to athletes, coaches, and professionals who can help us reach our true potential. Being a student of distance running for over 10 years and interviewing people in the sport for the last five, I've learned a ton, but there's always more to discover. Everyone has a story, and I know you'll resonate with each of our guests as we embark on this new journey together.
00:00:34
Speaker
Join us at home, on the road, or while you run. Together, we'll have some fun. So follow along on Instagram at justinstridepod and your favorite podcast platform and prepare to be inspired. Come along for the ride with Justin Stride.
Sponsorship & Guest Introduction
00:00:51
Speaker
This episode is presented by our friends at Exact Nutrition, a tasty and healthy way for you to fuel your body before, during, and after a solid training session. I can't leave the house without a few fruit bars in my pocket and they never make it back home. Exact is offering you 50% off your order when you use the code justinstride. So head to exactnutrition.com and fuel your goals today. Today we have an inspiring guest who embodies the spirit of relentless dedication and love for the sport.
00:01:19
Speaker
In this episode, I had the pleasure of sitting down with Rob Watson, a former professional marathoner turned coach. Rob's journey in running is a testament to the power of passion and determination. Simply put, Rob was a pure talent with an insatiable desire to run fast. From his early days of running in school to the relentless pursuit of an Olympic dream, Rob poured his heart and soul into the sport.
00:01:44
Speaker
Despite never making an Olympic team, it wasn't for lack of trying. Rob pushed his limits with immense mileage and rigorous training, traveling far and wide to compete and make strides in his sport. His efforts were awarded with four national titles and qualifications for numerous international competitions, including two world championships.
00:02:05
Speaker
Today, Rob channels his expertise and knowledge into coaching, helping athletes achieve their own goals and dreams. His story is a powerful reminder to seize the moment, to pursue what you love while you're healthy and able, because the opportunity may not always be there. Join us as we delve into Rob's incredible journey, the highs and lows, and the invaluable lessons he's learned along the way. Whether you're a seasoned runner, an aspiring athlete, or someone looking for a dose of inspiration,
00:02:33
Speaker
This conversation is packed with insights and motivation.
Rob Watson's Career & Transition
00:02:38
Speaker
Rob, welcome to the Justin Stryde podcast. Thanks for making time for me today. Yeah, man. Well, thanks so much for inviting me. I'm sorry it took so long for this conversation to happen, but I'm glad we're chatting today. Yeah, I always think when I reach out to guests that sometimes it's not always the perfect time for maybe it's just not meant to be in that moment, but As long as we can stay in touch and the intent is there, then somehow we always get it done. So maybe this is just a better time in general for us to have this conversation. So there we go, man. Life's life's always happening and ah we have a big time zone difference. So our windows even smaller. So yeah, totally. um I find i'm stupid for chatting it's even, it's even more difficult on the, on the West coast with the nine hour difference than it is like just Eastern time, I find, but, uh, it's so kind of has to be your morning and my.
00:03:29
Speaker
you know, early, you know, late afternoon kind of thing. But um how is retirement going? Retirement? You know what? Retirement is going great. I think I'm in year eight of my retirement. It's been a soft launching of retirement from 2016, but remaining active, exploring new things and being able to approach endurance athletics with a different sort of mindset. And and it's been a long,
00:03:56
Speaker
transition mentally, um, and physically, but, uh, it's, you know what, I'll keep on moving and I'll keep on competing just at a different, with different goals, uh, and in a different way. And I love it. and I'm not going to lie. It's, it's nice. And I'm just being fast, but it's okay. Give context to that. Like your, your.
00:04:18
Speaker
pro marathon or 213, like won some races, national titles, things like that. you know So is it was it difficult to disconnect like when you clearly identified as is that?
00:04:32
Speaker
Yeah, it was it was the first couple of years were actually rather tough because like you said, my identity was that of a runner. And when I retired, i was like I was satisfied with my career. I was satisfied with what I had done. I had worked really hard. It was one of those things where I felt like I had left no stone unturned in my you know my quest to be fast. Maybe I wish I kind of waited around a couple more years for the super shoes to come out to get a you know ah a late ah late career.
00:05:01
Speaker
PB bump or something but Yeah. So when I did retire, it was, there was like a mentality shift and also an identity shift because I was always robbed the runner and now it wasn't that anymore. And it was, it was daunting and it was scary. And it took a little bit of time to figure out what direction I wanted to go from there. I thought like, okay, I'm, I'm done running. I'm ready to be like a quote unquote real person and enter the quote unquote real world. And, and then I got like a ah real job and I was like, I actually don't want to do this at all.
00:05:32
Speaker
And I've been very fortunate in that I've been able to kind of, um, find space in running and in endurance, endurance athletics to continue my career, and not as just an athlete, but also on like, you know, in in the working side, the business side of things. So it remains a huge part of my life. It just in kind of a different way. And it's, it's maybe weird to say retirement when you're still very young, you know, where athletes get to say that, you know, and normally it's.
00:06:02
Speaker
in their 30s, let's say, ah when they stop being super competitive, depends who it is, of course, you get the anomalies, but um did you have a plan for what was to come?
00:06:15
Speaker
Honestly, no, I did not. I just, yeah, cause I was, what was I, it was like, I was in my, I was in my, I think I was 33 when it was, when I, when I, when I hung up the shoes, like officially in that regard, it's like, you know, when you go from dedicating your life and making that your sole focus in your life into being like, this is going to be a part of my life, but it's not going to be my life. And honestly, I,
00:06:42
Speaker
that was something that I think maybe I could have done better was was having a plan moving forward and what I was going to do. Because yeah, it was like if I wanted to enter the quote unquote real world, like, I didn't have work experience. I didn't I didn't know what I was doing. What was I gonna do to start from scratch? And I think that was a bit of a shock to to myself.
00:07:04
Speaker
um And it was scary and it was intimidating for sure. Uh, but I think runners and athletes that were pretty resilient folks where we can adapt and we can, we can make it work and we're, and we're already used to being poor. So it's fine. yeah but And like, did you have somebody like a coach or somebody guiding you through that? And what brought you to that decision to, to retire?
00:07:31
Speaker
Yeah, to, to stop running competitive because you could argue like so many runners do continue into their thirties and they're still managing to stay competitive. I, I, I'm sure, you know, lots of, of those athletes, um, some shift into different aspects of the sport. Maybe it's trail running. Maybe it's triathlon that you've, you've later, um, got to enjoy.
00:07:53
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, you look at people like Tash and Melinda, you're like, Oh my gosh, they're still absolutely jamming. And that's so cool to see. But I think my thing was more mentally, I was just, I was, I needed a change because it had been years of just like 200 kilometer week after 200 kilometer week after 200 kilometer week after just running myself into the ground.
Life Post-Retirement
00:08:16
Speaker
And it takes a lot of.
00:08:18
Speaker
yeah yeah you compromise a lot, you miss out on a lot, you you know you have to make these choices. I loved doing it, um but at a certain point I was like, and also like,
00:08:29
Speaker
i i I just wanted to make the Olympics. And I didn't make the Olympics again. And I was like, you know what? I gave it a go. And mentally, I just didn't have it in me to keep on hammering myself in that regard. My body was fine. like my body My body was fine. But mentally, I was like, i I need to move on type thing. um And I didn't. And I came to that decision on my own. A lot of people were like, dude, like keep on going. And I was like, I don't but don't really want to.
00:09:00
Speaker
um And and i did I did some trail running, which I loved, I enjoyed, and I've i've remained active. But to you know to to the difference between being good and great is you need to have that extra level of push, that extra desire to absolutely dig in and do anything.
00:09:20
Speaker
And I didn't have that anymore. um So it was, it was, it just kind of of came naturally to me and it's like when you know, you know, type thing. um So, and but yeah, it didn't really have like,
00:09:30
Speaker
a mentor or anything or even like a set plan, but I had made enough connections in the sport and I'd been around in the sport long enough. Um, so fortunately when, when I did retire and briefly left the run space and came back, I found, I found opportunity. And a lot of that came through the the coaching business with mild to marathon. And did you find you needed to go cold Turkey at the start to kind of really say like, I'm going to give this, this this Break a real shot not that you kind of were half, you know one foot out the door kind of thing Yeah, I think I think going cold turkey was it was good to see like I mean I was still running and but like just in terms of a competitive mindset I just kind of turned that off it was good just to me like because you have time to come back you can always come back um but I didn't I just didn't have that desire and it never I
00:10:26
Speaker
The desire to run a 240 kilometer week never came back. The desire to go on a training camp never came back. I think I was ready to just have, because I was very monk-like in my training. It was all about my training. I was ready to have a little more balance in my life. And I kind of leaned in that a little bit more. And so that that desire to really, really hammer never came back. I mean, the desire to be fit came back, but you know running the sport where it's like, if you don't do the work, you're not going to have the fitness. So it's like, you've got to compromise, right? um So yeah. And so it was it was it was kind of nice to go cold turkey. But going cold turkey from the run space also showed me like, I still want to be in the run space. you know Some people retire and they go into the corporate world or whatever and you never see them again. That's awesome. even Everyone takes their own path from when they retire.
00:11:18
Speaker
But I'm just a runner through and through. I still identify as a runner. ah It just kind of takes form in a different form, but it's ah definitely still, I needed to still be in that run space and still be part of the community. hey Well, that's good that you recognize that anyways, you know, that it wasn't for lack of enjoyment of the sport, but rather the impact it had on your life. you know And so it's not like, I hate this. I want to get rid of like all aspects of it, the people and everything, you know because you can enjoy those things at the same time. um But it's good that you kept it in your life too, because it's something that's part of you and and always will be kind of thing. you know So what did the new balance in Rob's life look like?
00:12:07
Speaker
Yeah, it's just I put, um you know, my personal life, i you know, was because but even when I was running, I was like, I wasn't interested in relationships and things like that because it was just noise. um maybe Maybe it could add a little more balance when I was actually training. But yeah, it was just, you know, you know having having having time and having flexibility and having grace to, you know, if you want to go away for a weekend, go away for a weekend. can you want to go to the beach, you go to the beach, right? If you want to stay out late, you stay out late. Uh, so it was, it was nice to have a little bit to be able to live more of a quote unquote normal life. I'm going to stop saying quote unquote is annoying me. I just, I would just be able to like kind of live that, that life. Um, you could just do this. Yeah. Nobody hears this.
00:12:54
Speaker
and So yeah. And it's a, and, and running and sport took up a different, It was still there. It was still something I needed. And and even my relationship with that kind of transformed um because I recognize I need movement in my life. I need i need activity in my life to to feel balanced. And it's just, I didn't need three hours a day. I needed an hour a day. you know I needed an hour and a half a day and I'd be okay. And then I could go and do other things.
00:13:20
Speaker
And, and, and it was, it was nice. And also like, I didn't have to worry about my diet. I didn't have to worry about how much sleep I was getting. I didn't have to like, cause I would track all that when I was, when I was competing. So it was nice to take that load off because there's the act of running when you're training hard, but then everything else that comes around with it. Um, and just like, you know, when you're training hard is like, is this helping or hurting my running? And if it wasn't helping, I probably wouldn't do it, but.
00:13:46
Speaker
When I retired, I could do those things because it didn't matter. something hurt it was It was more for what i how I wanted to live my life. You must have been like you must have felt so liberated because running 200k a week plus takes take some time. It doesn't matter how fast you're running them. you know Oh, absolutely. Like there was years there was like, I was like never more than like 12 hours away from my next run. It was eighty but like twice a day every day. And except for Sundays, which was, so I'd run 13 times a week, every week and it's over. And you know what, I, I'm not saying I didn't love it when I was in it. When I was in it, I loved it. Like I was all about it. Like I was, it's like, I was stuck.
00:14:27
Speaker
Yeah, it was great. But that's kind of like when I knew I was ready to retire is when I wasn't so keen to do that anymore, right? Like when I was, when I was freaking 29, I was like, let's go, let's do this day. I could, i like, my thing was I just wanted to run. i couldn like And my my greatest skill or talent, if you will, was my durability.
00:14:50
Speaker
and my ability to handle workload. So I was like, all right, let's just just run a lot. And it was so cool. And I felt felt very powerful being able to do that. But yeah, so not having to do that. So it was it was it was liberating, but it it also was a time of like like confusion and like what now, a lot of that in life, because yeah the fact of the matter is we live in a in a society, in a system where you need to generate income and you need to get by. And I happen to live in one of the most expensive cities in the world. So it's like, all right, well, you live in Vancouver, bud. So you got to find a new way to make it work. Now, now did this, you know, you mentioned the Olympics and sometimes, you know, it happens to athletes, right? Like for as talented as they are, um, for whatever reason, it they just miss, they just miss it. Or, yeah you know, and you, you hear that when other ah athletes and I saw like Rachel Cliff just posted a about,
00:15:48
Speaker
about it also. like And you feel for those athletes, you know the the was the motivation always driven by wanting to make the Olympics? like Primarily, so when that window closed, so did like the motivation to run big mileage and push.
00:16:05
Speaker
yeah you know what like i like That was it. I want to do Olympics. That was my biggest thing in my career I wanted to do. I wanted to go to the Olympics. And yeah, and I just miss it. Like I made two World Championships teams and each one was like the year after the Olympics. So you know it's like that that big effort you put into making the Olympics.
00:16:24
Speaker
didn't make it, but then in 2009, I made the steeple chase team and then 2013, I made the the marathon team. So I just missed it by a year because even like like the qualifying protocols are very similar. So, you know, I was close, um but yeah, you kind of a lot a lot of athletes, they they do their things in four year chunks and they do it in four year chunks, right?
00:16:45
Speaker
So like when I when i when i finished in 2016, it wasn't like, do I want to go to 2018? I was like, do I have an Emmy to go to 2020 type thing? And when I thought four years ahead, I was like, I don't think I do really. um So that was, yeah, it was a decision made for a four year cycle because I had already been in the world championships. I'd already run like, you know, 213, which was okay. And so yeah, I was just like, do I have another four years of this in me?
00:17:14
Speaker
And I was like, no, I don't have another four years at me. And yeah, and it's unfortunate and it's and it's tough. And like, yeah, someone like Rachel situation is uniquely tough because I feel like she, she got really screwed over first by athletics, Canada, and then she got really screwed over by COVID. Like going into the COVID, she was number one, and then they backed it off by a year. And in that year.
00:17:37
Speaker
She got bumped by Malindi and Tash, and then Dana got the the auto cough. So she got she got screwed, A, by the athletics candidate, and then B, by the circumstances. So that's ah that's that's a story that's particularly challenging, um Rachel's story. Yeah, so yeah, like that's super unfortunate. and and But I mean, it's not a like as unfortunate as it is. I'm sure it happens to many athletes. Like you say, it depends where you fall and everything like that. and um Yeah, it's just too bad. Do you feel like that's like something you look back on your career, you wish would have happened? Like how do you feel about that whole thing? Knowing that that was your number one goal that you set out to do, that you didn't achieve, like are you satisfied with the pursuit of it?
00:18:26
Speaker
that's That's the thing, right? Satisfied with the pursuit of it. like I will never not be okay with not going. it like i still I still love the Olympics, and but there's still that that that that little bit of pain. Be like, God, that's all I wanted to do. I have so many friends who are Olympians, and I know so many people that it's like the world I live in. so it wass like I'm so stoked when they do. It's not like I'm jealous or anything. But but a man, is there's still that that that longing for it.
00:18:52
Speaker
but like you said like I feel satisfied that my pursuit of it in my pursuit of it I did everything I could do right it's like there's no regrets not like well maybe if I did this or maybe if I did that it was like I gave it a go It wasn't meant to be like you're trying to qualify for the Olympics, man. It's like high level sport. It's not for everybody. And you're not, it's not like it's titled to you. You don't, it's not like, Oh, well I deserved it. No, it's something you have to earn. And I didn't quite earn it, but I gave it a good go. And I was satisfied with that. It's like when I retired, I was like, you know what?
00:19:31
Speaker
I did my best. It didn't work out and I'm bombed and I'm upset, but I'm okay with it because I took control of the situation and I did everything I freaking could do. But as a thing, it's like, it's, it's literally the pinnacle of the sport and not everyone can do that. And it's just the way it is. Right.
Early Involvement in Sports
00:19:50
Speaker
Maybe take us back to the beginning, uh, for you, Rob and like, were you athletic as a kid? Were we always into running? Was there other sports that took precedent?
00:20:00
Speaker
Um, this, this fire, this competitive nature, was that part of it too? Um, yeah it's like like your early journey. and Yeah. I mean, I, I come from a very sporting family. Um, I'm one of five boys. So when you have five boys, it's going to be inherently competitive. Um, and as we are like we played a lot of sports. Uh, we grew up in the pre, you know, the pre-tech age, which was great, which was, I loved having that childhood where it was like, get on your bike and go play type thing.
00:20:29
Speaker
yeah um And my my aunt my aunt Jill, who's my one of my favorite people in the world, she was an Olympian. She was a 1984 heptathlete for Canada. So we just had a sporting lifestyle in my family. And it was something that I was always encouraged. My older brother, Pete, my oldest brother, he was a phenomenal runner himself. And it's just something we did.
00:20:52
Speaker
and And yeah, like I ran my first 10K road race when I was six years old. um So running was always part of it, but also hockey. And I love soccer. I used to like, like I played soccer instead of track and field in high school until I was and like, I think 12th grade. I didn't know maybe 11th grade, but like finally I had to make the switch to track because I was much better at track than soccer. But so like I was like, it was a well-rounded, just athletic,
00:21:19
Speaker
and sporting upbringing, playing hockey. I was not a great hockey player. I was a great skater, but I was also like a skinny little guy. who' went like When body contact came in, I was done. oh it's like I got but i've kicked out of me for a season. I was like, I think my hockey career is over. But yeah, so definitely definitely sport, something and being competitive and Yeah. So then as, as high school came around and, um, you know, when you're in high school and there's awkwardness and and you're growing and, but running gave me a sense of like identity of source because I was the fast kid, I was the fastest runner. And that success or even that thing that led to be like, okay, well let's explore this cause it's neat. It's neat having your thing. It's neat having.
00:22:04
Speaker
something that separates you from your peers. It's it's neat and also it's it's also fun to be faster than people. so you know and In high school, I kind of leaned into running a little bit more and had had a little bit of success and was able to earn myself a scholarship to university. um I did my first year at West Virginia University and then they cut the track and field program and I transferred to Colorado State University.
00:22:28
Speaker
which was a cool experience. I loved it out there. And that's also where I fell in my love with the mountains and nature, and which ultimately led me to Vancouver, down the lu found the road. But yeah, so like I had always run and I had always run. And so it was like from steeplechase to 5Ks to miles to cross country. I always loved cross country. So it was just a natural progression of my career. um And a central theme of it was always just like,
00:22:53
Speaker
It's just, it's just a lot, something I love about the sports is if you work hard, you get the results. There's no luck involved. It's, it's, it's on you to do the work. It's on you. And if you want to be good, you got to make yourself good type of thing. And I, and I like, I liked that sense of control about it all. And where were you from originally? London, Ontario. Oh, wow. Okay. Nice. yeah Little London. Yeah. A little family out there.
00:23:16
Speaker
My parents still live out there and I have two brothers out there. Yeah. So that was a great, it was a great place to grow up. It was, it was absolutely, I mean, my childhood was pretty rad. I'm not going to lie. I was pretty fortunate. I agree with you at a non-tech age, like the years of just like coming home. First thing you do is go play street hockey or, you know, just ride your bike to the soccer field after dinner and like before. And it's like,
00:23:42
Speaker
all you want I only played video games when it was raining kind of thing, you know? um Yeah, absolutely absolutely. We had a Nintendo, but like I would rather play Roadhog with my butts. And like you say, I would just like get on your bike and just go ride your bike all day and and explore. And yeah. And and i I look back at my childhood and I'm like, that was that was a good way to grow up. Absolutely. Yeah. I'm getting exposed to different stuff too. Did you play um midfield, playing soccer or?
00:24:11
Speaker
i was I was a midfielder and a defender. And ironically enough, one of my challenges and is i just i I wasn't very fast. I don't have a lot of foot speed. I can't turn it on. like Once I get going, I'm going. But like yeah, definitely like that that actual like turning on that that I'm not quick. The burst.
00:24:30
Speaker
Yeah, I don't have that burst. But yeah, I love i love soccer. I absolutely love soccer. And I so i still do remember when i when I quit playing soccer to focus on running. I didn't play soccer for a long, long time. And one of the first things I did when I retired was buy soccer gear. And I was like, I'm going to play rec soccer. This is going to be great.
00:24:49
Speaker
And I remember, and I had a buddy I played with in high school who lived in Vancouver. So he was like, yeah, come play with my urban rack team. I was like, okay. And i he's like, Hey, this is Rob. You know, we used to play together. he He's good. And I was a professional runner now, but, and then I, and I was awful. I was absolutely awful. And he told me, he's like, dude, what the hell happened? I was like, I don't know. I i don't know. I was so bad.
00:25:12
Speaker
i don't know good I went from being like an athlete to a specialist in running and lost any sort of finesse I had. And that was a very humbling experience. So it's, theres but I still love, I love sport and I love, I love watching it. Um, and I love following it. So. That's the thing too. Like when, when I speak to endurance athletes now, I've become one myself, but like common thing is like midfielder.
00:25:38
Speaker
could skate for days playing hockey. like I wasn't the most talented, but I would just chase down pucks because I could skate up and down the ice. Because I had an endurance engine. you know And then I didn't know that at the time, but eventually it came out. and you know Yeah, it's funny. Yeah, we have our natural gifts, right? And sometimes they're hidden. You don't realize until, oh, wait a second. Yeah, that's the that's my skill right there, for sure. Yeah.
00:26:05
Speaker
crazy. So, so you kind of followed in the, the running cause you were good at it. Did anybody, did you have a coach or anybody that was tracking you and changing schools? Was that difficult? Like, what was that? That like for you going away from home and, um, to pursue running through it, you know, getting an education in the States. Yeah. Like I had a really good, we had a really good track program in London, Ontario, um, uh, London Western track club with Dave Mills, who was a, who was a great coach.
00:26:33
Speaker
And I also had my, my older brother, like I mentioned him before, Pete, he, he was, he was kind of like my mentor or like he does. He's always had my back and he was already in the NCAA system. So he kind of knew what was going on. So like what took me to Colorado state is he was living in Boulder at the time, Boulder, Colorado. And he was, cause he would, you know, he he'd ran 14 flat. He was like, you know, he's, he was a 66 minute half marathon runner. So he was a good runner and he was living and training in Boulder. So I went out to train with him for the summer.
00:27:04
Speaker
when West Virginia got cut and we just took a trip up to Colorado State and it happened to be like the coach was like well we had we had offered this kid a scholarship and he he he went somewhere else so we have a scholarship here if you want it and I was like yeah I want it so um and something I like I'm always like I've been a little bit spontaneous which is nice so I was like okay cool let's go let's move to Colorado love it let's let's go so you know that was that was good it was nice having him kind of have my my back um and help guide me through this whole process um but yeah so it was uh it was an adventure it was an adventure you know and and i when i went away for the first time it was a bit of a shock it was a bit of a culture shock being like a pretty
00:27:44
Speaker
liberal thinking like punk rock kid from London, Ontario, moving to West Virginia. I was like, okay, okay. This is what they talk about when they talk about America.
00:27:56
Speaker
ah so Like, I'm not gonna lie. um My running experience at West Virginia was good. um But culturally, I don't think I really fit in with that place. So what was the what was the big difference for you? Like,
00:28:12
Speaker
Can you elaborate on that? Like how did you not not fit in? I don't hunt. don't and don't hunt and don't fish. i don't i don't i don't I'm not particularly religious. um you know it's just it's it's It's that type of thing. and And I'm not saying that's bad. It's just not what I do or what I'm interested in. So I didn't have a lot of shared interests with the people around me in a place like that. And I think it's important to surround yourself with like-minded people. And I didn't have a whole lot of that when I was there. I never asked this question to other people, but
00:28:46
Speaker
I just thought of it now. When when you're going, because I never went away to school. i was I was born and raised in Montreal, went to Concordia University in Montreal. so But like when you go away to school, like when when kids are on these scholarships and stuff, do you find that they're from mostly from the play, they live in the town where the school is or they're coming from out of state most of the time?
00:29:10
Speaker
Yeah, a lot of them are a lot of i like a lot of them will be from in state but not particularly in town. Um, you know, like when I was it was like there was a lot of West Virginia kids there, but they were from all over the state. When I was in Colorado there's a lot of kids from Colorado and Kansas and Wyoming, the surrounding area, just the general region of the country, but not particularly from that, that, um that.
00:29:33
Speaker
that city itself because also it's like there's obviously scholarship but they're also like you get a better tuition rate if you're from in state like in state tuition is cheaper than out of state tuition type thing so a lot of kids stay in state um for further schooling and then you'll have kids who are more like highly sought after recruits, who they bring in, who will have more scholarship money. And then then you'll have the out-of-staters or even out-of-country international type competitions. And then yeah it'll it'll also depend on the school, right? Some schools have a hard time recruiting in state, so they go out and they have to go somewhere else. or or yeah so it's it's And like the the reputation of the reputation of the program or the desire of the program. Yeah, so we have it's it's nuanced. It's very nuanced in the NCAA.
00:30:21
Speaker
Okay. All right. Cool. That's good. Good to know. I did. Like, I was just curious about it. I thought about it. I was like, Oh, that's interesting. I might be competing against the University of Wyoming. And it was all Kenyans because yeah there wasn't a whole lot of talent in Wyoming for running. And a lot of the kids from Wyoming wanted to kind of leave Wyoming. And so they would go elsewhere. Um, so they, went far audit they just brought in a boatload of Kenyans. And I was, I was used to get a ah kick of like,
00:30:52
Speaker
thinking about what the reaction would have been when they first arrived in Laramie, Wyoming from Kenya, I'd be like, oh, all right. That's not what the photo looks like. Yeah, exactly. This is not LA. This is not New York City. here Yeah, who are the buildings? um but um So did you have an idea that you wanted to go pro at that stage, or were you focused on, like I'm going to do this in school because I have a scholarship, and I'm going to get my education, and then I'll follow my education and We'll see what happens. Yeah. No, my, my thing was just, I was just going to run because it's what I love to do. And I was going to keep on doing it. And you know, I was getting, ah I got a history dec degree. I was never the best student. I think a theme of, of this is maybe I never really had much of a plan beyond two years, which is something I need to be better at. Um, but I remember my junior year and I was okay. I was, I was good, ah but I was, I was kind of like doing
00:31:51
Speaker
the normal, like going to practice, doing this every so often. And my coach was a guy named Brian Berryhill, and he was like, and he was a NCAA champion, you know, he's a 355 miler. And I was like, Brian, like, what do I got to do? Like, what do I have to do to actually be good at this sport? Because I'm okay, but I want to be good. Like, I want to win races. I want to win. And he's like, he's like, you just got to do more.
00:32:15
Speaker
he's like He's like, what everyone else is doing here, just do more. right you have to You have to go above and beyond. like We set a structure for the team. that is going to like service the team, but you have to do more and you have to want it. So I just started doing more and and just running more and and and and and it's not even just running. It's this lifestyle changes and it's it's this like want it and act like you care um and work harder, basically work harder. And then I did and I like immediately saw results in the next season. It's like, okay, now I'm starting to kick some ass. in that And that kind of became like the theme of my career. It's like, just do more.
00:32:54
Speaker
and and and and work hard and and at work, people. And so yeah, so I didn't have a plan to go pro, but I had a plan to just kind of run as fast as I can run. And so the Napa progression after I graduated university, I was like, well, I still want to run. Like, I don't think, I don't think I've done what I can do. And then there's opportunity to go and train in, in Guelph with the likes of Reed Koolsad and Eric Gillis and Taylor Milne. There was a really good training group at the time. So then I, after the university, I moved to Guelph and trained with those guys.
00:33:27
Speaker
Oh, really cool. So would you say that you recognized your own potential or was curious about what that looked like? Or was it the other way where a coach was like, it sounds like it was you, but did a coach kind of guide you to say like, Hey, you're talented. If you put in some work here, you can be really good. Yeah, it's I.
00:33:50
Speaker
Because I was never like a superstar. um But I was good enough kind of type thing. But I think in my own self, it was like, I just i just i just really loved the sport. And i liked that I liked training hard. So I was like, I'm going to keep doing this because this is what I like to do. If I were to look at all these things, it's like, are you ready to go into the real world? Are you ready to go and pursue that and leave this behind? And the answer was no. I wasn't ready to do that. so it was and And then there's opportunities and having and taking advantage of opportunities as they do arise. so like
00:34:24
Speaker
Again, it was like when when I got the call from the Guelph guy, I was like, you know what?
Training & Coaching Philosophy
00:34:28
Speaker
That's an opportunity. like let's Let's go. And I'm definitely a firm believer of like being a, it's better to be a you know a small fish in a big pond than a big fish in a small pond type of thing. um You gotta surround yourself by people who are better than you, so you can try to rise to their level. um And that was very much the situation in Guelph, to go and learn from your peers and people you respect and just go in there and just get stuck in.
00:34:52
Speaker
and and that was And that allowed me to further my career, right? And there was there was definitely times in my career where it's like, I wanted to do this, but I wanted to to be realistic and honest with myself if it was feasible. So there were a couple of times where it's like, you know, yeah when I first graduated, I stagnated for a year and I was like,
00:35:11
Speaker
is this actually something that you can do? So I was like, all right, if it doesn't happen next year, maybe it's not gonna happen for me. And what i and I just like, all right, well, I went from running 120K a week to 160K a week to 180K a week. And then, hey, I had a big breakthrough and I made the world championships. I was like, okay, cool, you can do this. You do have the ability to do this. So let's keep doing this type of thing.
00:35:33
Speaker
And what what distance were you training for at the time? that was when i was was i was I was a steeplechaser. I was running over a hundred miles a week as a steeplechaser. I was never traditionally fast. like My foot speed isn't great. like I think the fastest Like 400 meter I ran was like 57 seconds um But I could still run like a 403 mile, right? So I had a big engine and I could hold it but I wasn't particularly fast So I just needed that big engine So I just ran a lot and like I could hold a pace really really well It just took me a little bit to get there like I remember going to Europe and running 1500s and in the first 200 meters I'll be able to back
00:36:16
Speaker
as i got up to speed right but then i would just work my way through the field because i'd hold that steady pace you know i'd just say all right well i'm going to run 60 seconds per lap but i'm not going to go in 26 seconds i'm going to go in 30 seconds and now So like that was the type of runner it was. I was a strength runner and I just, so I leaned into that type of training and that type of, I would try to run fast. I would try to get the foot speed going, but I just never really had it. Yeah, goes back so is yeah exactly. But so you're saying like your acceleration maybe wasn't there, but then at the top end, you could hold that top end speed for longer than, than the other. yeah Yeah, exactly. Like I could write a line for, ah for I could write a line really, really well. Very cool.
00:36:58
Speaker
Now, when you went to Guelph, did you know those guys? like I guess back then, did you have a lot of information on everybody already? did you yeah because you don't now with you know Was it like like it is now where you could just find out information about people on the internet or Instagram or whatever? like Maybe it wasn't as much. Yeah, it was out there. But yeah, it definitely wasn't as much where like, everyone's got a freaking Instagram page. and take back It was like, I mean, but there was still like access to, to, to, so you know, I could Google them. Um, yeah, it was 2007 when I moved up there. So I mean, not,
00:37:35
Speaker
that far into the dark ages. But um yeah, so I knew the guys. I knew who Reed was. I knew who Eric was. I knew like Cleve Thorsen. I like these were people who were, because especially the Canadian running community is fairly small um at the pointy end. um So you knew you knew the names of the people. So yeah, I knew the people and I was like, those would be great people to train with. They would make me a better runner. If I can just, if I can get pulled around by them every day, I'm going to get better. So It made sense. And would you say that that's like, where would you say you saw the greatest improvement in your running?
00:38:10
Speaker
um Like in terms of timeline or times of or in times in terms of like, yeah, just like, you know, some people say, Oh, I ran like a four hour marathon, then I ran a three hour marathon. It's like,
00:38:21
Speaker
Well, how'd you make that happen? Yeah, yeah. Honestly, I i think it was it was it was just going in there and it's getting dragged around by those guys because this was pre like everything was always on a Garmin or GPS. i didn't like We would go and do fartlicks in the woods and I didn't know how fast I was running. I didn't know how far I was running. I just knew how hard I was running and I was running hard, right?
00:38:47
Speaker
And by just going out there, just putting your eyes on the back of your teammate and getting pulled along. And I just got strong and I got fit. And and that's when and that's when i that's when I saw the greatest improvements, right? It's just becoming just super grindy and super just kind of tough. And you know that first year when I trained with those guys, Guelph hosted the Canadian Cross Gunnery Championships and our team went one, two, four with Dylan Weiss coming third, right? Cause cool. Sat one gills was second. Dylan was third. I was fourth. And that was, that was really, really affirming for me being like, okay, okay, this is good. This is working. Just quote there and, and just, just run with these guys and you'll get better. And that's where I saw the difference. The difference was just in just getting pulled around and it just, it gave me a new edge to my, to my competitiveness. It gave me a new edge to and confidence. Um, if you can run with these guys, you can run with anything type of thing.
00:39:44
Speaker
Mm hmm. Yeah. and And I mean, I understand exactly what you're saying, because it happened to me where I was training with people that were training for like ultra triathlons. And I was training for like, much less than that, but I would go and do their bike rides and, you know, and that's how I get the time out there. So like, you just get fitness without even realizing you're getting the fitness because you're just out with your buddies and, you know, following along and just pushing the effort to to keep up, you know, without looking at a time necessarily or whatever. You find that like this is a concept that's really effective, but maybe that I'm kind of dragging your coaching into it now, but it's a concept that's really effective, but that not a lot of people understand now where it's like we have the watches, we have like the all the times and everything on our wrists and we, you know, we lose that a little bit. What effort actually feels like.
00:40:41
Speaker
Oh yeah. I, I, as a coach, I love being able to see all the data and I love being able to see all that stuff. But like as an athlete, like everyone, I shouldn't say everyone, but like people are so caught up in the debt, in the metrics, in the numbers. And like, that should be a guide. That should be like a tool, but like your body's in charge. You have to be able to just go run hard and not like, I miss that. I miss that so much. I'm just going and doing like a fart lick based on time and having And even when you finish, you don't even know how fast you win. You just know, you just push yourself harder and then pushing yourself harder. You got better in that day. If you look at the Kenyans and the way they train and in, in, in eight, 10 and elder at like, they go do those two minutes and there's like, well, I'm going to try to keep up with everybody else. And they just run hard and be on undulating surfaces and being an altitude where the numbers don't even matter. It's all about that effort. And.
00:41:36
Speaker
If you can really tone in on your body and and trust your effort levels and knowing the efforts you can sustain, that's such an amazing skill to have. And I know of some elites who are kind of strained from doing all the metrics and all the numbers and and it helps. But like, yeah, there's something so pure and so raw, just being like, I'm going to run hard today. And and it is I'm going to try to, you've got to internalize what that pacing means to you rather than having your watch tell you what that pacing is and and just feeling it out.
00:42:06
Speaker
And I think it's such a lovely way to train. It's such a lovely way to train. like And I've done that like when I was a trail runner for a little bit. like I'm just going to go run in the woods hard for a couple hours. And then I remember coming out of that and was going to do a half marathon and be like, well, I should probably do a couple workouts to see what my pace is like. And I was like, flabbergasted. Holy crap. I'm actually quite fit.
00:42:27
Speaker
But there was no, there was no, like, I didn't, I just went and ran up hills hard. You know, I just went and ran and and did a fart, like I did a bunch of two minutes running around the woods. And then you come out and you run a 65 minute and a half marathon just based on that strength. And I love that. I absolutely love that. And I do, I do, I do miss that. I think watches and fries as good as they are and how much fun the tech is. There's too much tech out there these days. We don't need freaking everything. thing Yeah. Yeah. You just gotta like feel it out. And I feel like,
00:42:56
Speaker
And it's hard to convey that. Cause it's not part of the culture, you know, it's, uh, it's gone really the other way. You know, you see you run past, I, we always laugh. Me and my wife just were just going out for an easy run. But every time we pass someone, we always see them go this yeah oh like They're not even doing a workout. Well, maybe they are, but I don't know. oh hes like well Like, so you could see that you're doing like five, six minute or five 45.
00:43:26
Speaker
Yeah, and how's that going to change your run at all? like how like especially in your Especially your easy run, especially your easy run. As your easy run is, like just go run. like You could literally leave your watch at home and and and just go run. I fell into that thing too, where i would always look like especially when I was getting later in my career and and paces did matter so much. I remember doing, because I was i was trained by my coach later on i'm sorry by my brother as my coach, okay and I remember getting a run. He's like, he's like I think you looked at your watch about 300 times on that run and I was like, oh man, that's a problem. I'm addicted to it. Yeah. Um, so yeah, it's, it, it changed and Strava is great. I love Strava and and I love that element of the sport, but yeah, there's something pure about just doing a watch list, tech list run. Yeah. And just, you know, it's change things change on the day too, right? Like where you might go run the same trail run, you know, this week and then you go run it next week, same day. And it's just.
00:44:24
Speaker
Based on life also factors where your effort might be the same, but you run it slower or you run it faster based on, you know, life circumstances or whatever. So, but I liked that apart. Like when, at the time when you were training hard and getting into this, like some of those, it wasn't quite, maybe quite there yet, you know, and those lessons that you learned are probably super valuable in what you can bring athletes. But and how do you convey that?
00:44:55
Speaker
to athletes who maybe don't get it, you know? Yeah, it's it's something that's like, I think even the wording on how you communicate with an athlete. I try to focus so much on effort, effort. And, and we fortunately with, with our training group, we do have a lot of like, we'll do like group trainings and a lot of people like coach, we do groups. So it's good cause I'll give them like a range of paces to be in, but it's also like run with that group. And if you run with that group, that's those those are the people you want to be running with type thing. But yeah, it's, it is, it's.
00:45:26
Speaker
And a lot of people who I coach came into the sport and the first thing they bought was after they bought a pair of shoes, they bought a watch type thing. So it's just like, that's all they know. So you all you have to you have to respect that and you have to accept that that that that's just part of their running story. um And it's harder to go backwards, right? Cause they just don't know. So just like, yeah, just remember like effort. It's about effort. It's about presenting a stimulus and also setting up workouts where where pacing, the numbers aren't going to be as important. It's like, all right, well, we're going to do this on a gravelly rolling path. So this isn't going to be like ah like a track, right? this is This is a different type of environment. So we need you to work on your effort today. And the numbers are going to be 10 seconds per kilometer slower. So the numbers don't mean anything today. It's going to be the effort you ran on, right? So it's setting themselves. It's like we do a lot of work in Stanley Park. It's very rolling.
00:46:22
Speaker
and so They know like, okay, back here, the numbers don't really matter as much. So they only need to look at their watch as much because it's, it's, it's a moot point type thing. So yeah, it's, and it's like, again, and remind them the watch is a tool. The watch is in the boss to watch the training tool. Yeah. And what do you think makes a good coach it's like having, having being coached and also coaching now?
00:46:46
Speaker
Yeah, I think being a good coach is is it's meeting the athlete where they are and and having flexibility. and just to your Everyone has their own coaching philosophy and their way to doing it, but you have to also accept that every individual is an individual. um Something and about coaching is is the physiology. You have to obviously have an understanding of the physiology. The physiology of runners is going to be pretty standard.
00:47:12
Speaker
um in and you know and how you're gonna just structure training and and work on different systems. But then there's also the mental side of things. And every athlete is mentally their own person. i What motivates them to run and what gets them out the door is going to be their own unique reasons and their own unique story. And that's in my lifetime of experience. right So you have to meet them on that level too. It's like, why do you run? And you have to speak that language and you have to you have to understand them as ah as a person on why they run. because like Some athletes can be like, hey, get your ass going, run. Other athletes gotta to be like, hey, you know what what you know how can we help you? like what What do we need to do? and you know Sometimes you're gonna be hard, sometimes you're gonna be soft, and there's no right way about that. is It's what the athlete needs. A coach is a servant to the athlete.
00:48:02
Speaker
And where we use our expertise in the sport to help them achieve their goals. Um, so it's like what the athlete needs, kind of the athlete gets, and sometimes they do need a little bit of a kick in the butt. Um, but yeah, so we're just here to like help guide them through their running journey with understanding and compassion and also knowledge and experience. And how do you like yourself with such a background and, and, you know, a lot of the coaches that are part of it, just the mile to marathon, um,
00:48:32
Speaker
umbrella, let's call it. It are like top athletes, former Olympians, you know, how do you how can you stay relatable to somebody who just started or, you know, because I can see somebody looking at you and being like, wow, like, this guy's like, ah local legend, you know, kind of thing. and Canadian icon, you know, so ah yeah, how do you stay relatable and in those moments, you know,
00:48:58
Speaker
Yeah, you know, it's in coach, coaching was something that really allowed me to. I just, you see a different side of the sport. Um, you see a different you different you do more breadth of the sport. Cause when you're a elite level athlete, it's your, it's such in your own little bubble. But when you're coaching and you see like, Oh shoot, this person has nine to five job and three kids, and they're still getting out there at 5 AM to run. And there's so much like it's, I respect that so much.
00:49:29
Speaker
and And there's an athlete who's just trying their best. And something I do like about running, it's a sport where it is an effort-based sport, and it's a work-based sport. And you're going to get better based on the the work you put into it. And as a coach, this is like, hey, here's where you are. And let's just let's just work hard in your terms and what you're able to do. so And you know I got to where I got to because I was able to run.
00:49:57
Speaker
You know, I had the time and the ability to run 14 hours a week, right? Not everyone has that time and ability. So if you have three hours a week, let's work hard for three hours a week and let's work hard for five hours a week type thing. So I think it's just the sport is it's, we're all going through the same movements. Um, you know, our, our legs all burn the same. Our hearts all beat the same. Um, you know, our, our brains are unique to ourselves, but like, it's a shared experience. If, if I, if my if I go to a track and an athlete goes to a track,
00:50:26
Speaker
And we run a 400 meters as hard as we can, as hard as we can. We're going to get to the finish line and we're going to have a very, very similar sensation. We're going to want to lie down. Our legs are going to burn. Our lungs are going to burn. So it's a shared human movement. It's just that some of us go faster than others. Yeah, for sure. and um And what are some of the most common questions that you you say you would get from runner? Yeah. ah you know there's there's a lot of There's a lot of small, like a lot of people get caught up in the details of how like well what shoe should I wear? What wash should I wear? And sometimes people do look for these marginal gains. and i was like you know These things are things we're going to worry about after we tap out you know ah we tap out running as much as we can. um and But also like a lot of a lot of dietary questions. um And some of these questions is hard to answer because like I respond differently because I'm
00:51:20
Speaker
you know My gut is used to this or a lot. There's so much like people are so afraid of, you know, having to go to the bathroom during a run, which is which is a very common theme. But um' yeah there's not a whole lot of like.
00:51:32
Speaker
I think it's because that's more where people understand or like the physiology of it all. They're like, why am I, war why am I doing this? This so much aerobic running versus so much, they they don't really ask that as much because that's why they kind of hire a coach in the first place to like answer those questions for them. So there's not a lot of high level questions in that regard. Um, but yeah, so a lot of it's like, like the minutia of it all, which is also, I love, I love talking about that type of stuff as well.
00:51:58
Speaker
Yeah, what's easy? right Yeah, exactly. What's the easy pace? It's like, it's, it's, people don't understand. And that's one of the, actually the hardest thing that's coaching is getting people to slow down. There's way too much brain area running that happens or it's like everything's like.
00:52:16
Speaker
not quite beneficial enough to be threshold. it's it's It's faster than your aerobic pace needs to be. so much gray yeah So having that polarization and understanding the concept of polarization is super important. like like i don't like Sure, you can go and run every day at 430 kilometer But if you run it five minutes a kilometer, you're going to have the same benefit and you're going to be fresher for your fast stuff. so yeah but it's and And running's a sport like that where it's like a lot of times people want to go to a gym and feel a burn. When people work out, they want to feel a burn. They want to feel like, okay, I worked hard today. And running, there's going to be a lot of times you want to run and you want to finish and be like, I could easily go more.
00:52:57
Speaker
and But like that's you don't need to. You don't need to, right? Polarize it. And then and getting that concept of polarization is actually kind of challenging. um like ah Like a taper for your workout days. you know So you can actually use that speed in your workout days. Like, show me what you got on the workout.
00:53:15
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. It's like the numbers I'm going to look at are going to be on your workout days and your easy day. I don't care about your pace really, for real, unless it's too fast and I'm going to be like chill out type thing. I'm going to look at your overall volume. That's important.
00:53:32
Speaker
I'm going to look at the numbers on your workout days, but your easy days just run easy for real. yeah um and and you know Sometimes it can be boring, but it's you need to have you need to be bored when you run because especially in the marathon and the half marathon, you kind of want to be bored for the first half of those runs. so You need to be able to just manage that monotony of it all.
00:53:53
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I mean, I remember when I first started running, um, just going out of house and just running as hard as I could, and you know, four times a week, you know, and it's not the way you should do it, but I didn't know any better. Um, so, yeah and that's something we take for granted. Sometimes we've been in the sport long enough. Yeah. It's like, no, that's actually not, that's not how it works at all, at all. It's like, and, and something it's like, and I'm like,
00:54:19
Speaker
If you have a big aerobic aerobic engine, if you have a big engine, you like you could just run fast. You could run fast even if all you did was run 100 kilometers like a week at an easy pace. you're You're going to run better than if you went out there and ran 40 kilometers hard every like every week type thing. just Having that engine is such a... it's It's the best thing a runner can do to them. it's like And people always say, what do I got to do? What do I got to do? like What's the secret? So there's no secret. But in my thing would always be like run more. Run more. Nobody's tapped out aerobically. Nobody in my world is like, they've hit so much that they've tapped out aerobically. So now they got to like run more. And that's that's going to get you better. And that's what you were told. so
00:55:04
Speaker
That's what I did. Exactly. Do it. Honestly, that's what happened. It's like, all right, well, you know when I went from 120 to 160, I got better. So I'm going to go from 160 to 200, I'm going to get better. And then, okay, now I'm running 250. And okay, yeah, I'm strong. I'm so strong. Jeez, I miss being fit.
00:55:24
Speaker
because And that's the whole that's the whole thing that it's still taxing on the body just to run easy. like To run 100k easy in a week is very taxing on the body. Never mind the workouts, right? So like that's the thing. Everyone wants to do workouts.
00:55:42
Speaker
I feel like everyone's like, that's like what they see is if I want to run fast, I have to run fast. But what you're saying also makes sense where if to start, you just lay this foundation of mileage, easy pace, that's also going to be hugely beneficial and may and probably set you up for better success because your body can handle something.
00:56:03
Speaker
You know, Oh, a hundred percent. And this is actually, especially in like the half marathon and marathon, like what's the biggest challenge of that event? It's 42 kilometers is far. So before we worry about trying to run it fast, you got to make sure you can run the distance.
00:56:18
Speaker
Yeah, so it's it's it's it is like yeah, it's like workouts are sexy workouts are are you know, when you get when you you know, it's you get to wear your fast shoes and and all that fun stuff. But yeah, it's the real gains are made when you're just out there. Just put in the put in the work day after day after day, week after week after week. It's it's a sport of consistency. It's a sport of long term goals. And it's not always the most exciting or sexy. But yeah, just go run. Just go run.
00:56:45
Speaker
Yeah. And how have you seen the culture change over the years you know from when you were doing it to to today?
Running Culture & Community
00:56:52
Speaker
Yeah. you know i I appreciate the growth of... I mean, crew culture has been huge in running, in bringing in a new audience. it's it's I feel like it's more diverse um and in so many ways.
00:57:07
Speaker
and It was interesting because I remember growing up, like running was not cool. Running was never cool. And then like all these crews came in like, Hey, running can be cool. And that's awesome. And I love it. And there's, and so I feel like there's such a breadth of personality in the sport between like the traditionalist and like more of an old school runner. And then there's a new school runner.
00:57:31
Speaker
and everything across the board. And I love it because it brings flair and it brings, and it just, there's a space in this sport for everybody. If you want to be a crew runner off, there's probably a good crew nearby. If you want to be more traditional, there's probably an old school track club approach for you. But so there's the entry points, there's so many more entry points for the sport. And I feel like there's less intimidation and there's a place for everybody in the sport. And I think having that,
00:58:01
Speaker
different culture and and different and different types of runner. has It's been really, really cool for the sport. and I love going to races and seeing all the crews out there and they bring a different energy for sure. so yeah that and the And that started about like, I mean, I'm not gonna, but that's been around for a while now, like going on 10, 12 years type of thing. Yeah, it's super nice. it just And it just means whether it's running or you know whatever other things, you know CrossFit, and you know there's all these ways that people are getting healthy.
00:58:31
Speaker
and think the more people getting healthy, the better, I think, as a general a general thing. like You're right. The barrier to entry is much lower now. And you know when I first started, I didn't know any runners or anybody running. like I just did it because I like to do it. um yeah And now you can find a club every night of the week. you know Even here in Zurich now, there's I'm meeting all the clubs and who's offering what in terms of training that fits me. you know and that's And that's it, right? there is There's a variety of things. You can go and try this. You can go and try that and see what see what it fits and see and see what, like okay, this resonates with me type thing. because i like There's a really, really, really cool crew in Vancouver called these fan run crew. and like i've run with I haven't run with them in years, um but like I remember when they kind of first started, I went into a couple of... I was like, you know what? These people are great. I love this. It's not for me because
00:59:25
Speaker
like just where I was at but I was like I appreciate them and I respect them it's not for me so I'm probably not going to spend a lot of time running with them but it's so it's like yeah having that accessibility and having those options is nice because yeah maybe back in the day it was like how do you get into the sport and then it was a little bit like kind of gatekeeper or whatever and it's not like that I feel it's a very non-judgmental space which is which is good now um and it leans towards just like accessibility it leans towards inclusivity and I think that's really important. What what was it being a pro like? Was it everything you thought it would be? Did you ever give it thought to what it could be and were you surprised in many ways?
01:00:06
Speaker
Honestly, like, yeah, and I never really had like these, like, it's not like growing up, the like pro runners weren't celebrated like hockey players or soccer players. It wasn't like the lifestyle you expected. Uh, so being a quote unquote pro and you would tell people, you would tell people for like, what does that even mean?
01:00:24
Speaker
It's a good question. it's like It's like, how do you generate income? It's like, well, you do this, you do that, you do this, and you'll probably have a part-time job. so like it's a so But I loved it. i loved the I loved the adventure of it all. And I loved like, all right, cool. And I'm going to go for a six-week training camp here. I'm going to go to i'm goingnna go to Europe with my buds, and we're going to you know, post up at a, at a hostel and, and, and just try to run races around Europe. Like everyone, like we go to Europe and we have a base and be like, and then we just try to get into races and be like, okay, cool. I mean, I'm in, I'm in, I'm in Belgium right now, but I have a, I just got into a race in Spain on Thursday. So I'm going to go to Spain, see you guys up and you go to Spain, you do your race, you come back. You're like, all right, cool. I'm going to get on a bus and we're going to go run a race in Amsterdam. And so it was so much fun.
01:01:11
Speaker
And it was, it was such a cool experience, life experience to get to do when I was, when I was younger. um You know, I feel like there's definitely a lot of things in my twenties that I may have missed that are traditional, but like ah there also a lot of things I got to do that were really, really, really cool and unique. And so being a pro is like, it was tough.
01:01:27
Speaker
um in terms of like financial size of things, it's not a lucrative sport. And it's like one of those things like being a pro runner is one of those sports where you probably accept making less than you would anywhere else in the world and in like any other kind of industry, but the life experiences but was so cool and I loved it. And I got to travel the world. I got to meet so many cool people. I got to go to like just do cool things and like, you know, it's like from running Random races in Bilbao, Spain, to World Championships in Moscow, to, you know, Boston Marathon. Like, it's the the amount of life experience I got from the sport. It was, it was, I wouldn't have changed that for anyone. That stuff's priceless.
01:02:10
Speaker
Oh yeah, I mean, I was kind of part of the Allureton roof over here because I never did that. Like I never, I got to go to Italy when I was younger, but I never got to experience Europe. And I was i saw it as a nice opportunity to to travel around here. and But it sounds like you got that through sport. And I mean, that would have been even, you're just as good or even better, you know, to kind of be with your buds and just just racing, hopping around and stuff. So.
01:02:35
Speaker
oh Yeah, but Europe's sick Europe's I just got back from Portugal and like oh cool Europe I just do it, right? but just be just it's just It's just like honestly like Europe is more my vibe in terms of like what I seek value in then North America, I think yeah, and I mean like yeah you got like culture and nature and You know, even like we were just in Sicily and yeah, it's just like beautiful, right? It's it's different though, right? It's it's just. It's, it's, it's, it's absolutely different. And I love how we like you can, like Canada is so big. Like you drive from here to Calgary and it's like, you're still in Canada. So you if you drive that same distance in Europe, you're like, you're like four countries over and you're just speaking the language and you're just, and the culture is so, and i I like that. I appreciate that for sure. yeah and And it's fun.
01:03:30
Speaker
We did, I just did a like relay race Euro trip, it's called. um And we started in Strasbourg and ended up in Innsbruck. So you cross like five countries over 420k as a relay team. And it's like, just exactly what you're saying, you know, from Montreal to Toronto, it's about 500k, so you don't get very far. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And yeah, so I mean,
01:03:58
Speaker
yeah Yeah, I liked i liked to having that life experience and and getting to see different cultures and getting to go to different places. that was you know Being a pro owner, was that was the that was the best part of it all. And but what do you think that all taught you, that that experience, you know um going through all that? Yeah, I think it just it just it makes it it forces you to be independent.
01:04:23
Speaker
um as It makes you realize that like, you know, you have to you have to you have to make things happen. ah you can't sit along you You can't sit around and expect things to happen. You have to be a proactive in your own life. You have to be proactive in what you want. um If you want to run faster, you got to put in the work to run faster. right You want to go run a race in and Europe, you got to go to Europe. right it's like It's like you got to take control. like You have to be in control of your own path. You have to be in control of what you want to do because it's not just going to happen.
01:04:58
Speaker
um And also in doing all that and getting to experience all these things, you get to get education and just kind of like, and like, I think you you you get empathy and just like life, um because you see so many different cultures, you see so many different people, you meet so many different, like travel is the best education you can have is like being in a place and experiencing it.
01:05:21
Speaker
and seeing how other people live and seeing how other people go about their lives. And it's a really good connection to humanity with traveling. um So yeah, it's just like running being a pro runner was a really good education just in in life and like just like take control, respect others, you know, worry about yourself. Don't try to don't don't, you know, don't cast your net too big and try to, you know, just just worry about yourself. Enjoy. Enjoy the process. Be present.
01:05:49
Speaker
A lot of times we get caught up in the all this big stuff and stuff we can't control. No sense in stressing about things you can't control. Control your own little bubble. Control your own little world. separate you know Surround yourself by people you like. Surround yourself by things you love. If we can all be fortunate enough, like I feel like one of my best, something I'm most grateful for in running is like,
01:06:12
Speaker
i and I don't think everyone has the opportunity. I found my passion. I think everybody has a passion, but not everyone can find their passion. and I was lucky that at a young age, I found my passion and I was able to pursue it and lean into it and dive into it. I feel so fortunate I was able to do that.
01:06:30
Speaker
um yeah so just like Just doing it all just allowed me to see how life can be lived on your own terms type of thing, if you have the privilege to do that. because i also had i also like I recognize that I had support of my family, I had people who had my back, and so I was able to do it, um and not everyone is fortunate enough to be able to do it.
01:06:51
Speaker
Yeah, that's awesome. You can recognize that for sure and and vocalize it, too. It's that's awesome. um Any predictions for the Olympics? We're talking about Europe and Olympics and. Oh, geez, yeah, it's um I'm so excited about the Olympics.
Olympic Excitement & Athlete Admiration
01:07:06
Speaker
I'm so excited to watch so many events. Oh, my gosh, her name is escaping me right now. The fun is that Hassan? He's doing this and you're the quad, the quad. Yes.
01:07:19
Speaker
The 15, the 5, the 10, and the marathon, I'm really excited to see how that goes. I'm excited to see how that marathon goes. I'm really excited to see my friend Nikki Hills to see how they do in the 1500. They have such a strong kick that in a championship style race, I think that they could be in for a medal. The men's 1500 meters, Inger Bridsen,
01:07:42
Speaker
ah um that whole that whole competition is gonna be so much fun so I don't know if I have predictions but I'm gonna be a very keen observer um on what happens and obviously the marathons on both the men and the women are always are always my favorite events to watch so now I'm just ready to get stuck in to the Olympics and just and just observe and just watch and just support and it's It's a little bit different because I used to just know a ton of people who were in it because they were my peers. So i don't this is a new generation. I don't really know them as people. I know them as like more characters. But but i'm it's it's it's fun. I think the sport's actually in a pretty good place right now. Amazing. and Anybody that you followed or um looked up to in the sport?
01:08:28
Speaker
ah like i'm i'm yeah I've really, really enjoyed following the career of Moamud and Cam Levens, people who I competed had the opportunity to compete against. like cam is cam is like I love Cam Levens as an athlete. like He's got that old school grit ah about him, where he just sees like the workhorse, the definition of a workhorse. And I respect like all that he has done, which is really, really cool. I really look up to Melinda Elmore, still kicking butt after all this time. um And Mo is just, I remember being at the World Championships in 2013, and Mo was obviously younger there. And I remember watching him do a track workout.
01:09:14
Speaker
And he was doing 400s and he was doing, he was revving off in like 52, 53 seconds. And I was like, he he runs exactly like Mofara runs, his stride. And I was like, A, I was like, where's this, where does he generate the speed from? Where, like, where is this, where is he generating the speed? And B, I was like, he looks like Mofara and at the time Mofara was like,
01:09:35
Speaker
beyond and all of running. So I was like, this this guy is good. and and And it's been fun to see him just get better and better and better, but also something that Mo Ahmed has something as a mentality of it all. um You know, that separates, there's a lot of talented athletes, but there's also athletes, you got to have the right mindset.
01:09:54
Speaker
Um, and obviously Kip Choge, uh, I want to see, I want to see the goat keep, keep going. So here yeah, it's, it's, there's so many good characters and so many good personalities. And also shout out to my, my friend, uh, Tara Davis Woodhall in the long jump. I want to see her kick, but like we, we worked together on the same squad at Lululemon and she's a special athlete as well. so cool Yeah, we're lucky. I live right by the ah stadium here in Switzerland. in zouri stick And they do like a diamond league thing here, so.
01:10:27
Speaker
We got to see some stars here last year. And I'd never been to a proper track event, um but it was cool to see, ah you know, pole vault and all the other sports and then the sprinting happening and the mile and 3000, you know, ah in between super cool. It's interesting. like I love following the jumps and the throws, you know, like there's it's a different kind of angle and it's different kind of like the way they do it, but is it's in the tension of it all. Cause it's like one at a time type thing.
01:10:56
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. And I like that. So yeah, in the sprints, those those those people move. and Oh, yeah. And the grace and like, oh, and another one in the Olympics will be the the women's 400 hurdles. That's going to be a heck of a that's between Sidney McLaughlin and bowl. Like those those two are that's going to be a hell of a hell of a race.
01:11:15
Speaker
Yeah, a lot of rivalries in the sport now I find in different events, which is cool. And it's getting a lot of attention. Like they just came up with that Netflix series on on track and field. And yeah yeah, it's kind of getting more attention now, which is great. You know, it's great
Transition to Other Sports
01:11:33
Speaker
for the sport. And um yeah, there's a lot of that. I mean, I think I remember that it being that way growing up, you know, and and especially in Canadian running and sprinting and yeah with CERN and Donovan Bailey and um you know all these like all these top athletes, like world athletes that were sending records and and whatnot. but ah
01:11:55
Speaker
Yeah, that's actually one that stands out in my mind, remembering that as a kid growing up, you know. I remember, yeah, because Atlanta 96, right, when ah Michael Johnson, yeah, like Canadians did so well. So then like, they're trying to create this narrative that Michael Johnson is a fascist because he won the two and the four. It's like, well,
01:12:14
Speaker
It's because our guy won the 100. And then they had that race in Toronto, ah the 150. Those were cool head to head competitions. And and and the sport this sport will only benefit from having characters and personalities in it because people cheer for athletes and to have that personality. And I think the one of the benefits of of being in the living the world we live in now is is having accessibility where you can see personality shine through and I think the Ingebertsons were really really good at that um and so yeah so it's it's it's fun to be able to follow follow follow along. um It's been so fun talking to you about all this stuff but I wanted to also talk to you a little bit about you know the fitness you're finding after pro running
01:12:59
Speaker
And like, I see that you're a big cyclist and you also did a half iron man. And, you know, and you told me before we started recording that you're preparing for another one. Like, what's, like, what's all that like for you? um Is it, can you find some competitiveness in those events like still? And um even though they're new to you.
01:13:20
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's i i definitely have I have a competitive drive in me where I still want to compete and I still want to push myself hard. it's still like I still get great satisfaction of of pushing my limits and and working hard. um so and like i especially I love cycling. I absolutely love cycling. Cycling makes me feel like a kid where it's just fun and it's fun to go fast. And I took to cycling really, really, really,
01:13:48
Speaker
I'm actually kind of decent at it, which is which is nice too. So i so i do I'll do cycling races and because it's fun to bury yourself and empty yourself. And something I like about cycling is you can ride a line for a long time and then and then you just stop pedaling. And then then like two minutes later you're good to go. So cycling is fun. And 70.3 is a fun new challenge as well in that I did one and I was humbled by it.
01:14:13
Speaker
and annoyed by it. And then how humbling it was because I'm a terrible swimmer. Um, so working out the swim was a new challenge, cycling, so much fun. And then I got to the run. I remember getting to the run and being like, this is when I'm going to shine. This is when I'm going to go. And like, as soon as the run started, like I was used to be like doing brick workouts where the first kilometer is tough. I was like, okay, the legs will come back. The legs will come back. And the legs never came. And that run That was the most miserable, that was the most miserable 21.1% one Columbus I've run in my life. I hated it. And afterwards I was like, well, I can have that happen again. So like, that was like, that's a personal challenge where I need to rectify that because wow, that was humbling. Cause I thought I was just going to get on the run course to hammer people.
01:14:58
Speaker
I was like, my butt says every runner, I think, you know, that's how I viewed it also. Like swim sucks. Let's just face it. Yeah. Survive on the bike. And then the run is where I'm going to, you know, they say you don't, win you don't win these events in the swim. I'm not trying to win them, but yeah, it's on the run course. So as a runner, you're like, Oh, all you want to do is run. Yeah. I met i yeah i messed up in that I came out of the water pretty far, like,
01:15:25
Speaker
my swim. So on the bike, I literally passed 450 people. Like, I felt like I was like, like a race car driver. So I got caught up in the moment. It was like, person after person. I was like, I'm gonna pass on. So then like, but then like with like 10 k to go on the bike, I was like, I might have overcooked this. And I definitely did because I left but I definitely could have held back a few watts on the bike and had a better run, I think so.
01:15:52
Speaker
Yeah, but I just got caught up in the moment just hammering people on the bike. So you think you'll do a few more of them then? Yeah, I'm definitely doing one in um September 22nd in Washington state. And and then we'll see from from there where I go. But it's just it's a fun way to move your body. I just i mean, I'm competitive. and And the thing with running is I'll still run. I always run. But like the fact of the matter is like I've run as fast as I'm ever going to run. I'm never going to run as fast. i'm And like something neat about that, also kind of a little bit sad, because I do, at times, miss being fast. So it's like, all right, let's take
01:16:28
Speaker
some freshen things up and try something new and cycling and triathlon allows me to do that. And do you like how big is the drop off? Would you say, you know, you're not obviously at that level anymore, but you're still fast for most people. Let's face it. It's not like you went to like, you ran a two 13 and now you're like a three hour marathoner.
01:16:49
Speaker
Yeah, I guess it's relative, right? um Yeah. I mean, i I still want to run another like I still want to run sub 2.3. I want to run at least one more sub 2.3 marathon because I do like the process of training hard. And I think I'm far enough removed where I can like When I do look at my splits afterwards, I'm not comparing myself to my past self, comparing myself to my new self or where I am at now. And so I love the process of training hard. So I want to finish my six stars. So I need to do Tokyo and I need to go back to Berlin. In 2014, I was pacing Shalane Flanagan for the American record in Berlin. I think I remember that, yeah.
01:17:32
Speaker
Yeah, and they're like go around to 20 to 21 or whatever. And so I did that and they're like, but with the K to go, we, we need to get out of the way so we can take photos. of And I remember this is, this is like one of my biggest regrets in the sport is I got to, I got to 41 kilometers, the Berlin marathon. ah she She ran to 21. So I could have like, all right, I'll just jog across and to 21. But I was like, you know what?
01:17:54
Speaker
What's the point of running a 221 marathon? So I stopped and I didn't cross the finish line because I assumed I would just come back later and run 212 there. So I was like, ah, so now I got to go back to Berlin, spend all this money to go and run maybe like a 232 marathon. 15 minutes later, did you regret it? And I think about getting back on the course. Then it's like a 235.
01:18:20
Speaker
I know. It's like, i I could have done a cool down. like why did't i cool down like i cooled Instead of cooling down across the finish line, I cooled down to my ah hotel. Because honestly, and it was part of me being late, I was like, I don't want to deal with all that nonsense at the finish line, and it's going to be chaotic. or I'm just going back to my hotel. So that was dumb. But yeah, so I want to finish my six stars. I want to run under 230. There's a very, very unique feeling of when you do find that flow.
01:18:48
Speaker
in a temple run where you just floating effortlessly and you're floating in complete control. And that has nothing to do with pace, the number pace. It has something all to do with how your body feels and when it's aligned and when you're fit. And, and I miss that. And I, and I love that when it does click. So
Advice for Aspiring Runners & Conclusion
01:19:04
Speaker
I definitely want to continue to have that as part of my life. So you got Tokyo left and then you have to go run where you got a technically finished brilliant. Exactly. Exactly. Cause I've done Boston, I've done Boston, Chicago, New York, and London.
01:19:18
Speaker
Okay. Nice. Yeah. I have, I have, I have Chicago, London, and Tokyo left. Yeah. tokyo hard getting Yeah. It's super difficult, but you could probably get in, um, with like a fast running time or something like that. I think, I think they call a favor or just, yeah.
01:19:36
Speaker
Yeah, but I mean, they let elites in. You still qualify probably as an elite, so you never know. Anyways, I'll let you figure that out. yeah yeah i I got to run much faster to kind of be in any kind of position to get in. um What's the best advice you can give to people wanting to get into running or move up in a distance? um Yeah, what's the best advice you can give people?
01:20:01
Speaker
ah Yeah, I think the best advice is to just like, it is is take control. um Don't extend and be proactive and don't expect it to just happen. um Be smart, be patient, but most importantly is b is be consistent.
01:20:16
Speaker
it's It's not going to happen overnight. It's it's not going to happen immediately. This isn't a sport of instant gratification. This sports a slow burn, but it's it's worth it and it's absolutely worth it. But ah be patient with the process, but be consistent. You just have to be consistent with it and work hard. Well said. Where can people find out more about you, Rob? um I have an Instagram.
01:20:42
Speaker
um i R Watson 26.2, I think. Yeah, you got it. the Post a lot there. Miles the Marathon Coaching, www.milesmarathon.com, I think it might be out .ca. But yeah, um and Strava, you can I post everything on on the Strava. So those are the best ways to, you know, if they're interested at all, to find me. But yeah, so yeah, <unk> it's it's it's fun to be part of this running community. And I'm very, very fortunate to have made it a part of my life for so long. So
01:21:14
Speaker
for sure. Well, I appreciate you unpacking with us today and taking the time to to taking your time to to share with me. And I really like enjoyed this this chat and and kind of dig into a little bit more about you. And I look forward to seeing you cross the line in Berlin and in Tokyo and and whatever 70.3 you have coming up next. I appreciate justin it, Justin. It was great to chat with you too, man. So thanks thanks again for the invite. I'm super stoked that we made this happen.
01:21:43
Speaker
Yeah, me too. Cheers. Cheers, man. Thanks for tuning in to the Justin Stryde podcast. I truly appreciate you taking the time to listen and I hope you enjoyed that conversation as much as I did. Please take a minute after this to rate and review our show on Apple podcasts. With your feedback, we'll be able to make the show even better and it'll help us reach new listeners too. You can also find us on Instagram at JustinStrydePod for all the latest episodes and updates.
01:22:12
Speaker
Of course, this show wouldn't be possible without a solid team behind me. With logo and design by Vanessa Pugliese, as well as audio, music, and editing by Forest McKay, a huge thank you goes out to both of them. Guest outreach, social media, writing, and advertising are handled by me, your host, Justin Pugliese. Finally, we'd like to thank you, our listeners, for coming along for the ride with Justin Strad.