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Justin Pfefferle on his journey through running and education, learnings from mentors, coaching philosophy's, knowledge, running, team building, cross country, track and field
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On today’s episode of Just In Stride, we’re joined by Justin Pfefferle, a coach, educator, and former athlete whose impact on Canadian distance running continues to grow. Originally from Saskatoon and now based in Montreal, Justin has dedicated himself to developing the next generation of athletes, blending his passion for running with a deep commitment to mentorship and education.
As the head coach of Concordia University Stingers and co-head of Dawson College Blues cross-country, Justin has played a key role in shaping competitive collegiate programs. His background as a former athlete, combined with his experience as a longtime educator, gives him a unique approach to coaching—one that prioritizes not just performance but also personal growth and resilience.
In this episode, Justin shares how his own journey in the sport has influenced his coaching philosophy, the challenges and rewards of working with student-athletes, and his vision for the future of distance running in Canada. His story is a great example of how running can shape both individuals and the communities around them.
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Thanks for tuning in to the Just In Stride Podcast. I truly appreciate you taking the time to listen and I hope you enjoyed that conversation as much as I did. Please take a minute after this to rate and review our show on Apple Podcasts. With your feedback we’ll be able to make the show even better and it’ll help us reach new listeners too. You can also find us on Instagram @justinstridepod and YouTube @justinstridepod for all the latest episodes and updates. Glad you came along for the ride with Just In Stride!
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Overview
00:00:03
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Justin Stride Podcast. I'm your host, Justin Pugliese. If you love endurance sports, you've definitely come to the right place. On this show, we'll talk to athletes, coaches, and professionals who can help us reach our true potential.
00:00:18
Speaker
Being a student of distance running for over 10 years and interviewing people in the sport for the last five, I've learned a ton, but there's always more to discover. Everyone has a story and I know you'll resonate with each of our guests as we embark on this new journey together.
00:00:34
Speaker
Join us at home, on the road, or while you run. Together we'll have some fun.
Sponsorships and Promotions
00:00:39
Speaker
So follow along on Instagram at JustInStridePod and your favorite podcast platform and prepare to be inspired.
00:00:47
Speaker
Come along for the ride with Just In Stride. This episode is presented by our friends at Exact Nutrition, a tasty and healthy way to fuel your body before, during, and after a solid training session.
00:01:00
Speaker
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00:01:13
Speaker
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00:01:26
Speaker
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00:01:41
Speaker
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00:01:58
Speaker
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Interview with Justin Fefferli
00:02:04
Speaker
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00:02:10
Speaker
On this episode of Justin Stride, we're joined by Justin Fefferli, a coach, educator, and former athlete whose impact on Canadian distance running continues to grow. Originally from Saskatoon and now based in Montreal, Justin has dedicated himself to developing the next generation of athletes.
00:02:27
Speaker
blending his passion for running with a deep commitment to mentorship and education. As the head coach of Concordia University Stingers and co-head of Dawson College Blues Cross Country, Justin has played a key role in shaping competitive collegiate programs.
00:02:43
Speaker
His background as a former athlete combined with his experience as a long-time educator gives him a unique approach to coaching. one that prioritizes not just performance, but also personal growth and resilience.
00:02:56
Speaker
In this episode, Justin shares how his own journey in the sport has influenced his coaching philosophy, the challenges and rewards of working with student athletes, and his vision for the future of distance running in Canada.
00:03:10
Speaker
His story is a great example of how running can shape both individuals and the communities around them. Welcome to the Justin's Stride podcast, Justin.
00:03:22
Speaker
yeah yeah Yeah, two of us. It's a podcast full of Justins. That's it. How you been? Good. Yeah, actually, I remember like you and I have a personal connection to an extent.
00:03:35
Speaker
I don't even know if you remember. ah we've We've done a couple of workouts together, but when I joined the but what was then called AVM, avm i i I saw there was another, not only Justin, but another Justin P in the group. And so I i have far known of you for a while and I listened to your podcast for several years now. And yeah, we've we've at least had a couple of workouts together. So yeah, it's cool to reconnect. very fun.
00:04:07
Speaker
Yeah. It was interesting to kind of get in a group dynamic. we Like we, we met through John LaFranco's, uh, program and then, you know, I knew you kind of as a runner, but also coach to, uh, helping out with that. And, and now it's kind of taken on a life of its own for you. Right.
00:04:26
Speaker
Yeah. So when I, when I joined the group, it was, it was really as an athlete when I had reached out to John, um, earlier in that year, that was the COVID year, you'll remember that was like, you know, March, April, May of 2020.
00:04:44
Speaker
And um I joined the group. and And at that time, we were still doing workouts with like three people outside masked. um And I had recently reached out to John because I was starting to think about getting involved in coaching and coach education. And um At the same time, i was I was training for a virtual marathon. like I gave myself this project during the pandemic of training for a marathon and and running a marathon. And so, so yeah, at that time, I was very, i wasn't even new to coaching. i
00:05:17
Speaker
I was new to coach education. and And my sort of primary goal was to start ah ah cross country team a at the college where I teach. Because at that time, it was like, you know, the only thing that you could really do was run outside. Like all all sports had been shut down and and running, know, it was like kind of a running boom happening.
00:05:38
Speaker
and And I i wanted it to try to start a program at the college and see where that went. And fast forward, you know, four, four and a half years later, and it's become ah very important part of my life and a source of a lot of meaning and and and purpose and frustration and fatigue and energy. And yeah, but to say that it's it's taken on a life of its own is putting it
Coaching Philosophy and Influences
00:06:08
Speaker
mildly.
00:06:08
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. and And how did like John's a like legendary coach, I could put it like tons of experience and in the game for so long, still doing it, and doing it in different ways now than than he was before.
00:06:26
Speaker
but very knowledgeable about the the sport in itself. How did you find John and what were like your first interactions like when you found out you were interested in coaching and as it like as as a mentor?
00:06:39
Speaker
Yeah. So, um so like talk about serendipity. So, so I sent athletics Canada an email, not knowing that that email was going to end up, you know, John's inbox. I had no idea who John was.
00:06:52
Speaker
And um so I, so I contacted, um, whoever it was, which happened to be John, the head of coach education, ah Athletics Canada, and and just asked a question like, you know, what are what are the first steps?
00:07:05
Speaker
You know, I have a track and field background, a running background. I'm an educator. what are the What are the next steps for a person like me getting involved in coach education? And and John responded and said, you know ah interesting, I'm in Montreal, you're in Montreal, I'm an English professor, you're an English professor, um let's let's go for a run.
00:07:26
Speaker
Where do you live? And I and i said, i okay, I live in Verdun. And he said, wow, I live in the Point. like We're you know like a block away from like literally an 800 meter run from my place to John's.
00:07:39
Speaker
And so he said, let's go for a run. and And this was still, like, during the pandemic. So, you know, we're, like, we're like running, but we're, like, two meters from each other and kind of nostalgic for that time in a weird way.
00:07:50
Speaker
and And, yeah, we just, we talked about ah about training and running and teaching and um and just really connected. And and then, you know, as, you know, the running community, as you know, is so small and the track and field community is so small.
00:08:06
Speaker
that as soon as you know John asked me, oh, you're from Saskatchewan, do you know this person? do you know that person? Like, yeah, you I grew up with that person. And so we realized that but like we're work socially connected in ways that were totally mysterious to us before. but But that's how I got connected with John. and And then John was very, very supportive and encouraging of me pursuing um the coach education, which like I'm still I'm still doing um a lot of and very, yeah, very supportive of me starting, ah helping to start the the Dawson College program. And yeah, it's been a very important relationship for my personal development and we're, and we're friends, you know, it's, you know, the amount that we communicate about the team and about coaching and, you we've, we've really developed a ah very cool and unique friendship.
00:09:00
Speaker
What would you say were the main things that you took away from, from John? Um, so like such a good coach, uh, communicator. I, I got to train with him for ah few years, like you're saying and out of the pandemic also, when it was kind of a weird situation, um ah limited amount of people and everything, but, ah you know, John cares so much about the athletes and yeah he's got such a range of athletes too.
00:09:30
Speaker
yeah is there something that stands out that you ah you took away from him? Yeah. Like I think that the but one thing that John really, really did, which fits with me was really encouraged me to lean into my, my curiosity, my intellectual curiosity, which, you know, cause I'm an academic,
00:09:50
Speaker
um So that comes somewhat naturally to me. And, you know, John, you know, is the coach education guy. And so, know, obviously wants people to become more certified and more educated to continue that lifelong education. And John was really encouraging of me to really pursue that and follow my curiosities and follow my interests. And man, like I've asked John questions, you know, probably like, like I'm,
00:10:20
Speaker
I am like a, like a part-time job for John, you know, at this point, like the amount of time that I take up from John. Cause I, cause I'm, I'm so, it's like, I'm such a curious person now um you know, I'll constantly be asking him questions and he really indulges in me in that. And that's, that's something that has been extremely important to me and and for which I'm extremely grateful.
00:10:43
Speaker
um That, that was the first thing in terms of my coach education was like, really lean into that curiosity, um that growth mindset, like that's going to be the thing that's going to um and help you become ah a better coach over time.
00:10:59
Speaker
And so, so there's been that. And then the other thing from the athlete standpoint is, is like John really made it clear to me early and continues to that, that coaching is all about relationships and And it's all about providing athletes where oh with a good environment to grow and to train. And and the X's and O's are important. You know, the um you know the the specifics of like what you're doing training wise, these are important things.
00:11:30
Speaker
But maybe what's even more important than that is is the environment. Like what kind of environment are you helping to create as a coach and is this a place where athletes who have other options, especially in Montreal, um, you know there's other things that people can do with their time, um, other than ripping mile repeats on a dirt track with me, uh, when it's 35 degrees outside plus or minus.
00:11:57
Speaker
Um, and so, you know, it's all about providing athletes with that environment. and and putting the athlete first. I think those are the two things that come to mind.
00:12:10
Speaker
um and And that's an evolving thing, right? That's not something that you like you master you know on day one. it's It's something that evolves over time and it and it evolves over over time with your group. As your group evolves, as the athletes evolve, the kind of environment that the athlete needs now versus maybe four years ago is a slightly different environment and and I've got to be able to grow with that. so um So John continues to be a really important person in in my life in that regard and still indulging me in my curiosity, my my million and one questions that I have over the course of a week or a month or a training cycle.
00:12:50
Speaker
And I remember you know him saying, um I'm going to this conference. And he he also, even after years and years of coaching, had that same like practice what you preach. He would go and learn more things and learn from other coaches and um continue to grow his own knowledge of the sport, even though he knew already so much.
00:13:14
Speaker
And I think you bring up an interesting point. And I think I can relate to what you're saying because... I blame my interest in triathlon and desire to do like Ironman and stuff on Curiosity because I met a couple crazies, you know, yeah um who who are, I always talk about them. They were my mentors and ah early on.
00:13:38
Speaker
And it was so innocent because I just met them and they were, to me, they were rock stars. But I just always ask questions about swimming, biking and running. And didn't leave them alone, essentially following them around everywhere and and doing their ultra triathlon training, which made me fit enough to be able to do the things that I wanted to do yeah kind of by accident.
00:14:00
Speaker
You know, not by accident, but by accident. So it didn't really feel like training. yeah But ah it's the curiosity that led me in that direction and asking questions. And I think... Yeah, how important do you think curiosity is just for anybody in life to make improvements?
00:14:17
Speaker
I mean, it's I think it's it's such a huge part of my approach to to coaching. And it's something that I'm really trying to encourage athletes to cultivate in themselves. um it it can be um It can be the most useful tool that athletes have, particularly when when they're struggling.
00:14:41
Speaker
ah to me To me, cultivating that mindset of curiosity is the thing that we have maybe to push back against the voice of self-criticism, the voice of self-doubt, the voice that all of us have ah as athletes and as coaches um that but we're not good enough.
00:15:06
Speaker
um um if we can become curious about our responses to whether it's a physiological, emotional, psychological responses to adversity and and replace the but judging mind or the judging voice, with the voice of curiosity that says, oh, interest ah interesting that that i had this reaction to not train interesting that I had this reaction to that or interesting that I had this reaction to to that that success.
00:15:46
Speaker
um If we can cultivate that, almost sort of like imagine ourselves as the witnesses to our own experience, um that That to me might be a key to longevity.
00:15:59
Speaker
So, so yeah yeah, curiosity is is something that and I really bring up in and my coaching all the time. And trying to get an athletes to get curious about themselves, and including you know the question, like, how good do you think you can be? ah Like, if you really um if you really commit and and you play the long game, how good do you think you can be?
00:16:24
Speaker
And i think that if if there's anything that I wish when I was a young athlete, I had been better off, it is indulging in the curiosity that that I had kind of going on in in another part of my life. But I don't know that as an athlete, curiosity was the thing that motivated me.
00:16:45
Speaker
and And for that reason, I think, and for for other reasons too, like, you know, I probably left the sport prematurely before I really reached my theoretical potential because I wasn't motivated by curiosity as much as I was motivated by ego, as much as I was motivated by external signifiers of success.
00:17:07
Speaker
ah the the The intrinsic drive that motivated by the questions What will happen if, like, what will happen if a i ah I commit to four or five years of university track and field and then keep going?
00:17:25
Speaker
What if I really commit and I ah really go down this radical? hole What will happen, good or bad, without any kind of judgment or or attachment to the result?
00:17:37
Speaker
What will happen? Um, so, so that's, that's a big, that's a big part of my coaching. and So I guess we could say maybe the key to reaching potential is curiosity.
00:17:52
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. and And yeah, I mean, ah ah to me, it's, it's, it's at least the the vehicle that I tried to, you know, fit the athlete into, um because, because we've all got these really interesting minds and we're all,
00:18:08
Speaker
we're all living these um these crazy human lives. And ah you know if if we can get curious about it ah ourselves and curious about the world and and curious about the the degree to which involvement in the sport can lead to greater self-discovery, growth, um you know that that to me is the thing that can sustain us much more robustly than um you know like being
00:18:42
Speaker
being goal-driven to the exclusion of everything else, to be success-driven in a way that is sort of outside of any context.
Fefferli's Journey in Sports and Academics
00:18:56
Speaker
And so I always like to go back to the beginning because, you know, you have this curiosity, this ah thirst for knowledge and and learning. um How did you grow up and what was your first exposure to sport, to running?
00:19:13
Speaker
Was that something that was a natural thing for you and in your family? And kind of, you know, that will lead to maybe how you combine the two things, which is education and coaching and running?
00:19:28
Speaker
Yeah. um Well, i grew up in Saskatoon and my dad, my dad is a really good athlete and um he played, he played hockey at a pretty high level um as a, as a young man, he's a goaltender and um you know, we were a hockey fan.
00:19:49
Speaker
My brother and I both played hockey from the age of five. fact, I think my brother was four when he started. I was five. And yeah, we were both um like hockey in the winter and then ah baseball in the summer.
00:20:07
Speaker
But my school in Saskatoon has a great kind of cultural infrastructure for track and field. ah the the Knights of Columbus Indoor Games was, and still is, but but in the early 90s and mid 90s, the Knights of Columbus Indoor Games was one of the most important indoor meets in North America.
00:20:30
Speaker
And so as a kid, um I was going to the Knights of Columbus as as part of the elementary school relay competition. so all the elementary schools in the city ha have relay competitions that happen during indoor track meets.
00:20:47
Speaker
And so from the age of maybe sixth grade, seventh grade, I was going to these meets and I was seeing Donovan Bailey, like, you know, it like six months after he won the gold in in Atlanta.
00:21:02
Speaker
You know, and I'm seeing like some of the, you know, royalty of Canadian and and North American track and field. and And I'm there on the track with them, right? And so ah loved the relays.
00:21:18
Speaker
so that was That was what it was all about, was being on the elementary school relay team. And I'm still playing the hockey, but um reaching a point where hockey was becoming increasingly difficult because, like, I'm i'm six foot one now.
00:21:35
Speaker
By the time I was in eighth grade, I was five foot ten. And I was 110 pounds. And that's when the the threshold from non-contact to contact happens. And so being there in a collision sport, all arms and legs, center of mass is up by my ears.
00:21:55
Speaker
It was not a good fit for me. I broke my collarbone twice in about a six-month period. And the kind of writing was on the wall. At the same time, struggled in math as a kid.
00:22:09
Speaker
and lots of things, including math. And I had a math tutor who was also e a member of the University of Saskatchewan Husky track and field team.
00:22:20
Speaker
And he knew that I had this interest in track and field. And he said, you know, have you ever thought about joining a a track and field club? And I i didn't even know such things existed. I had no idea how to get involved in the sport of track and field.
00:22:33
Speaker
And he said, you know, I'm i um a Husky, but I'm also... coach with this ah track club called Century Track, and we have a group that's, you know, kind of kids your age.
00:22:45
Speaker
Well, let you come on out. And I did. And I was like, oh, this is it. This is what I want to do. um I tell this story to my my athletes a lot. I went to the head coach, Dan Andrews, great, phenomenal guy.
00:23:01
Speaker
And um I said, I want to be a sprinter. And he said, no And he said, what do you mean no? And he said, i can tell.
00:23:12
Speaker
ah you're You're meant to be a a middle distance runner. ah He's like, I can just see yeah you're You're meant to be a middle distance runner. The middle distance group was pretty small. We had this coach, Tony East, who was probably in his late 60s, this German guy from Germany.
00:23:30
Speaker
And he was awesome. He was so good with the kids. He was so fun to be around. and he had And he really gave us a lot of attention and I had this really small kind tight-knit group of middle distance athletes.
00:23:45
Speaker
And then like, you know, like but the I loved the training. I loved going to the track and banging out inter intervals with the guys and the women, girls at the time. and And then when I started going track meets, it's like, this is it, this is it.
00:23:59
Speaker
Like I loved, I loved the environment. I loved how different it was in a way from from hockey. um And I love the culture. and And I could also very quickly see a path from where I was then, seventh, eighth grade, through high school to the university. So very early on, I wanted to be a member of the University of Saskatchewan track and field team. I saw the guys and women training at the field house in Saskatoon. There's all kinds of husky you know iconography around.
00:24:33
Speaker
And it was like, by the time I was in eighth grade, that was it. That was the path. Like I wanted to be Husky. And top so that, that's, that was how I got into the sport of track and field.
00:24:45
Speaker
Very lucky to have that math teacher, that math tutor. Yeah. Who knows? Yeah. And how did you take the news that you had to be a middle distance runner? You know, as a kid, some you're just like, I want to, you know, you want to run fast.
00:24:59
Speaker
You know, actually, like when he explained to me, because I said, you know like I want to run the 200. He said, well, here's the thing. When you're an 800 meter runner, you got to do a lot of 200 meter intervals.
00:25:10
Speaker
So I said, OK, great, because that's really what I wanted to do. I just wanted to run too And so the foods was not it wasn't devastating. It was like, no, actually, like the thing that you want to do is the thing that they're doing over there.
00:25:24
Speaker
ah And so I said, OK, great, I'll do that. in fact And because I love to train. I just love to like actually the sprinting like training. I don't think it would have i worked for me because of all the rest, you know, like.
00:25:38
Speaker
oh my god, I'm going to run, I'm going to do 40 all out, and then I'm going to sit around for five minutes and wait? Like, nuh-uh. If I got an hour and a half, I want to do, know, at the time, I know better now, but at the time, like, i give me 20, give me, I want to do 20, 200, and I want to see how fast I can do all.
00:25:55
Speaker
So no, it was it was not devastating news. It was like, yeah, it was, it was, uh, Yeah, give it was a good it was a good fit. He was right. I was not. yeah to Kind of tricked you into it a bit.
00:26:09
Speaker
Kind of, yeah. yeah yeah Just a bit of coaxing. It doesn't hurt anybody, right? yeah You can still do it, but you're not racing it. It's going to make you better at longer stuff. yeah so Did you always have a good relationship with it in school? I know some kids, they go to you know you hear stories in the States and D1 leagues and stuff like that. Yeah.
00:26:29
Speaker
it becomes this, uh, job and it's not that fun and they can't kind of, you know, balance things out. Yeah, it did did become a job.
00:26:39
Speaker
Um, it did. And, and, you know, it, it did become unsustainable relative to the operating system that I was working with at the time.
00:26:50
Speaker
um yeah, like I went to university and had two really, really good years, uh, I say good, like I don't mean competitively, like I was not that good as, you know, as an athlete, um, good in terms of rewarding my team won national championships the second year I was there.
00:27:09
Speaker
um Um, so I got to be on a really good team. i loved my training group. I loved my coach. Uh, I loved being on the team. Um, And it was really demanding. It was like, you know, in the mornings we would meet for a gym workout. Then we would go for a run.
00:27:26
Speaker
I'd go to classes four o'clock and go back to the track. We would either do intervals or we would do you know hurdle mobility and drills and stuff. um And at the same time as that was happening, i was, I was really getting into school.
00:27:42
Speaker
Like I was not a school guy when I was in high school. I was there. like when i When I told my high school chemistry coach on the day of the grade 12 graduation, he said, what are you going to do now? And I said, I'm going to university. And he said, you?
00:28:00
Speaker
And and i in my head, I was like, you know I run track. like In my head, it was like going go to to university just meant running track. and you know like School it was a pretext for a necessary evil.
00:28:14
Speaker
But I got really into it. ah I had great professors. I took really fascinating classes. I started to love English literature, the discipline of English literature.
00:28:26
Speaker
And like the thing about English literature that's maybe different from math is the humanities are all about accumulation of knowledge. So you can see these two bookshelves behind me. like there' there's no There's no point at which you have read enough.
00:28:42
Speaker
And that started to feel like I can't do both. I can't have this very demanding, you know, ah um passion that is track and field being on a track and field team and reach the level that I want to reach as a, as a student of English literature.
00:29:02
Speaker
I really do want to be reading and writing kind of all the time. And, and there was a kind of eureka moment. I was, I can't remember now what I was, what, you know, I was working on a paper and i I was really fascinated by this paper that I was writing for it for a class.
00:29:18
Speaker
And I was driving to the truck in my dad's, like, dad's a truck. yeah And I just remember thinking, like, I don't want to go. I want to go home and write.
00:29:30
Speaker
Like, I want to be writing right now. And I turned it around and I went home and I wrote. And then two days later, I went to the truck and I approached my coach, Lyle, and I said, I think it's done. i think it's it.
00:29:42
Speaker
And he understood. he was like, I get it. Like, if if the drive isn't there, this is not the right environment because we are trying to win a national championship. And you're either in it or you're not in a way. and And if you're telling me that you're not, then I get it. I support it. So no regrets.
00:30:02
Speaker
um You know, i i i I think I did the right thing for myself at the time. you know, given a different, like I say, yeah like a different operating system, maybe I would, I would have, you know, greater ability to manage both. But at the time it was like, I was all in on the one thing and that was it.
00:30:28
Speaker
And you continued that way or did you also keep some running? Just not like, yeah, yeah, no, I did. i i did keep running um, um I kept training for for quite a while there. i so I stopped running and I was really into like speed skating. I never competed as a speed skater, but I, but I trained with a speed skating group in Saskatoon. And there's never been really a time where I haven't been active. And, um, there's ah about a decade in there where I wasn't on a team, but, um, I, I played senior men's baseball as a older guy. And, and, um,
00:31:08
Speaker
That kind of got me into competitive running again, was actually playing senior men's baseball and and training myself up to where like I but was pretty,
00:31:20
Speaker
yeah and I don't want to overstate it, but I got got good. like I got pretty decent. I could play a serviceable third base and shortstop, and I was like, holy smokes, I'm playing at a pretty high level relative to what I thought I could do. And so that kind of got me back into, as ah as a master,
00:31:38
Speaker
training and competing again after this like, you nearly 20 year period where i wasn't competing at all. And so what did it look like then in terms of goals and also where were you at like academically? And I guess when you realize you're not going to do it,
00:31:58
Speaker
You know, when you make that switch and say, oh, I'm not going to do this for, I'm going to do this for me more so as like, I'm going to try and go the sport route for as a profession. But so how do you, where did you, were you more like focused career wise and then like kind of hobby-y?
00:32:14
Speaker
goal running yeah yeah very yeah very much so um loved like as as i always have you know from childhood like love the act of running i just love the the sheer doing the thing i just love doing the thing and um and then i started kind of giving myself like little workouts and i love training and so um Yeah, in terms of goals, like I wanted to run a marathon and um I never really thought that I would like compete, compete. I thought I would run a marathon and see you know see how see if I could finish it and then maybe see if I could you know run it in three hours or something. but
00:32:55
Speaker
But by then it was like, yeah, like I had my career, my career was pretty stable. You know, it was pandemic. Weirdly, and i never really...
00:33:05
Speaker
thought about this now, but but at the time I was working on a book, like an academic book, and almost did a reverse of what I did when I was a university student where I drove you know i drove from practice to my home to work on my my paper.
00:33:25
Speaker
I was working on a book and I i had this moment in 2020 where I was like, I don't want to write this book. i don't want to I don't want to be sitting for the amount of time that it is going to require to write a book.
00:33:41
Speaker
I don't want to do it. I don't want to be doing this thing. um And closed the laptop and I went for a run. so yeah It really came full circle there.
00:33:55
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I know. And now I still compete. I've picked up competition again in my later life. And I'm taking a lot of pleasure from it, a lot of enjoyment without any of the ego stuff that I had as a university athlete. Now it's all about the joy of getting to do this thing that I know, you know, for both all of us, there will be a time where of it goes away.
00:34:23
Speaker
yeah Yeah. Really that sense of like, I'm really, really lucky that I get to do this. how How difficult is it to, like, is the ego avoidable in this sport?
00:34:37
Speaker
You know, how how like, like looking at your athletes now, is this something you try to convey to them also? Because it's so easy to get wrapped up in everything and everyone around and, you know, with social media and stuff like that. i don't know if it was as present for you ah growing up.
00:34:56
Speaker
um But yeah, how do you convey that? to athletes who are very much in that. Yeah. I mean, it's, I, I haven't, I haven't figured it out myself. i have not, I have not reached nirvana.
00:35:10
Speaker
Um, but, uh, it's an ongoing process of, of, um, you know, eradicating ego. And one of the ways that I frame this for my athletes, um, you know, I, I've, I try not to kind of be like,
00:35:29
Speaker
a professor when I'm at track or when I'm at the cross-country practices or you know coaching, but you know if like if I can get an athlete in a conversation about you know ideas, one of the things that I will try to convey to them is that I i think that like one of the beautiful things about running is that it shows us the paradox of life, many paradoxes, including we are We are so much stronger than we think we are.
00:36:03
Speaker
And we are so much more fragile than we think we are. And that dual insight, I think, is is the insight that I want us always to have sort of at our elbow waiting for us.
00:36:22
Speaker
um First of all, like I say to my athletes all the time, training works. And it it will work for you too. So if you if you do the thing, you stay consistent, you don't get hurt, you don't overdo it, you honor the limits of your body, you will get stronger.
00:36:41
Speaker
And in fact, you will get so much stronger than you than you think you can get right now. Like you can get so much better than you think. And when you're at practice, when you're in a race, when you're in a training cycle, if you if you pay attention to the the lessons that the sport has to teach you one of those lessons is we are so fragile and life is so fragile.
00:37:07
Speaker
And, um you know, respecting that and honoring that and accepting that, I think is a key to lifelong happiness, whether you're a competitive runner or you're not. When I was 21, I didn't want to hear that.
00:37:27
Speaker
um i know I'm not sure that I would have been receptive to that. i i i A lot of my motivations at that age in sport were about conveying that I'm strong and that I'm powerful and there's not an ounce of weakness that you see here.
00:37:46
Speaker
And now, um you know, i I'm very happy to acknowledge it in myself and gently, I want to guide my athletes toward that insight that, that like, you know, we're, we are really fragile and, and the, and the people around you are really fragile and, and you should take care of yourself and you should take care of other people and, and accept the finitude that is life.
00:38:12
Speaker
It's hard. I don't, I mean, and we forget that insight all the time, all the time. You know, I can have it very clearly resonating in my mind today and then I forget it tomorrow when I'm,
00:38:23
Speaker
impatient at the grocery store when I'm freaking out because my Achilles tendon is a little bit inflamed. or like you know if we we lose We lose sight of these insights all the time. And I think that's the human, you know unless we're going to go and live on a mountain and be monks, I think that that's the that's the process, is constantly coming to terms with your ego.
Balancing Roles: Professor and Coach
00:38:45
Speaker
ego Yeah, maybe it's ah also a hockey mentality as well where, you know, it's it's around toughness and grit and, you know, all these words that come come with a hockey player Which is really useful.
00:39:03
Speaker
It's really useful to be resilient and gritty and tough. um And I think that where mastery, true mastery comes is is holding that toughness and that grit in a kind of balance with the opposite, the yin to the yang.
00:39:25
Speaker
And so so as ah far as career goes, you were becoming a ah professor and and do you continue to do that? like how I'm just curious, how are you just like is is coaching at that stage something you do as well or did you find a way to teach, but through a sport instead? And and you chose that path.
00:39:51
Speaker
I know. I mean, I, my day job is I'm an English literature professor. Okay. And yeah, like i I wouldn't want, I wouldn't want to, you know, I wouldn't want it any other way. I don't think.
00:40:06
Speaker
um Yeah. Like I, I've, I've had now I'm, I'm into like the 12th year of my career, which is, crazy to think about. How did I get so old?
00:40:18
Speaker
ah Yeah, no, i I went to McGill. This is how I wound up in Montreal. I went to McGill in 2008 to do a PhD, and I finished that in 2015. And then I i had a year where I was a visiting assistant professor at New York State University and in a little town called New Paltz, which is a about an hour and 20 minutes north of New York City in the Hudson Valley. Beautiful little place.
00:40:49
Speaker
um And then went back to Saskatoon, taught for a year in the English department there, and really wanted to orchestrate and move back to Montreal. And so um I applied for a job at Bishop's University as an adjunct professor. And so for three years, I was driving out to Lenoxville, Sherbrooke, to teach at Bishop's in the English department.
00:41:12
Speaker
but then but but But then I got my full-time permanent job at Dawson and really lucky to have it and really lucky so to get to work at Dawson College where I love my colleagues and I've got great students, interesting students.
00:41:29
Speaker
um If you don't know, Dawson College is the biggest um public city in the province and it's it's the most interesting cultural space that I'm aware of.
00:41:41
Speaker
Um, it is, it really represents a true cross section of Montreal, Quebec culture. And so, uh, it's a fascinating place to get to teach. And, um, so yeah, yeah, I teach, I teach in the English department at, at the college. And, uh, in addition to that, I teach, I coach the cross country team there and, and, um,
00:42:08
Speaker
yeah, I have these sort of two lives that I try to find synergies, right? I try to find ways in which they're compatible. But yeah, like I'm very much into kind of like the life of student athletics and, ah you I inhabit that role as both a professor, educator, and as a coach.
00:42:28
Speaker
Yeah, it's great. I mean, it it also creates a balance within your your own teaching, kind of gives you a break from one and then either that you can implement some of the same things into the other also while following a passion as well. Right. So. Definitely.
00:42:46
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. um Yeah. In all kinds of ways, like the, the teaching informs the coaching and the coaching informs the teaching. And yeah sometimes there's no question, like it's challenging to manage the commitment to both, but, but the rewards are, are well worth it.
00:43:06
Speaker
And how does it work in in college when you're ah when you're recruiting students to come run for the school team? And ah is that, are you part of the selection process or do kids just sign up if they're interested? Is it different than from when you grew up?
00:43:27
Speaker
Well, yeah. I mean, as far as recruitment goes, um you know, i we do a little bit of recruiting. um
00:43:37
Speaker
you know, like we'll reach out to, you know, student athletes who, you know, either we're aware of through the kind of Montreal club scene or, you know, we we go to meets, high school meets, I coach a high school group. I, you know, i I'm getting to know the kids and and well we will communicate with them and let them know what our program has to offer.
00:44:03
Speaker
um you know as ah As a recruit as a a recruitment kind of philosophy, the thing that's most important to me is that the kid winds up in an environment where they can support their their academic goals.
00:44:23
Speaker
you know Luckily, Dawson is such a great academic environment that I can see with a straight face. to anybody, if you wind up at Dawson College, you are, you, you have access to so many great resources. So, so much great faculty, such an interesting student body. It's downtown, like there's so much that Dawson College has to offer that I can, I can very happily tell a kid like, we would love to have you our cross country team.
00:44:51
Speaker
And, you know, you, you can really help us compete. And we, we, we know that we can help you. oh And the most important thing is that you're a student first and an athlete second. And if you've come to Dawson, you know, I know for fact that my colleagues are phenomenal and you'll they'll have a great, you will have a great two or three year time period here at the college. Um,
00:45:16
Speaker
So yeah, we do a little bit of recruitment. you know It's getting more difficult as there's language laws now in place. And so it's harder for Francophone ah kids to come to an Anglophone college, laws that are you know driving them toward the Francophone CEGEPs.
00:45:35
Speaker
um Dawson College is also really academically competitive and you know, it doesn't matter if you're a really good runner, like if you don't have the grades to get into pure and applied at Dawson, I can't, right I can't tilt, you know, tilt the wheel for you and in that regard. um
Building a Successful Team at Dawson College
00:45:58
Speaker
And in fact, like, you know, what, one of the things that makes me really proud about that program that Joe and I, know, developed from year one to now,
00:46:11
Speaker
is most of the athletes on our team are not only, you know, they were, they were, they were coming to Dawson anyway, and without our program, they wouldn't have the opportunity to train and compete at the level that our team is training and competing at now.
00:46:27
Speaker
Um, but for the most part, these aren't kids who grew up in, you know, the sort of club scene. These are kids who, you know, Oh, I heard there was a cross country team. My friends on the cross country team,
00:46:40
Speaker
and And they join and some of them have virtually no athletic background at all. And, and you know, now in year four, we can point to a dozen athletes who had no background in the sport.
00:46:55
Speaker
and And we can say to a kid coming into the program, look at her. she started with us with no background. She ran a 26 minute 5k and now she's on the team that went to national championships, uh, this year. And she's, she's competing in a very high level, um, through just sheer showing my up, just showing up.
00:47:19
Speaker
And, um, that's something that we're really proud of. Um, so a lot of the recruitment happens internally within the college. Um, rather than like us, you know, going out and finding ringers who are, you know, already kind of thriving and, and, you know, luring them over to our program that, that doesn't really happen at the college level. Maybe for other colleges, it does for college, you know, kids are at Dawson because they're, they're there to study. They're there to have a, get a good education.
00:47:52
Speaker
And we provide an environment. I, I, I think I'm very confident. in saying that we provide an environment that could really be compatible with that but human thriving that they they get to experience when they're at Dawson.
00:48:10
Speaker
I find it's interesting too that like that running stands out as a sport that like I come from, I started playing hockey when I was 12, for example, you and your are five.
00:48:23
Speaker
I feel like the earlier you start, the better off you're going to be. It's very hard to make it, let's say in hockey, ah beginning to play as an 18 year old, let's say, but it's not so much the case for running.
00:48:34
Speaker
And I think that's when you're, when we talk about, i think, Why i like running so much is because I see a path to where I can do it for such a long time and maintain a certain level of health.
00:48:46
Speaker
yeah And whether it's cycling or running or or whatever, ah it's it's the consistency in the build over time that's going to make you either stay where you are or Depends what you want, you know, but you can still find success in the sport, even though you're not, like you don't have this, like, let's say pedigree from a young age, you know? Yeah. um I feel so it's kind of like this thing, like you're explaining where you have kids coming in just started with you and then finding success in, in a sport.
00:49:20
Speaker
Um, when maybe they, they never experienced that ever in their lives, you know, it's kind of refreshing. And, and, and on top of that, you know, what i love about the sport, um one of the, you know, one of the many things I love about the sport, um,
00:49:39
Speaker
is the lesson that it teaches you about sticking with it. um
00:49:46
Speaker
Anecdotally, at provincial championships this year, our team, we thought, the college team that is, we we thought we we had a shot at qualifying for national championships.
00:49:58
Speaker
Thought we had a shot. um I thought we had a pretty good shot. um And we did. And the, so but the women's team, that is, they they qualified for national championships. And they you know when they when they posted the results and we saw that we were going, they exploded.
00:50:20
Speaker
i i think I don't mind saying. I had a little cry. had a little tear. It was very emotional moment. um you And one of the girls on the team said to me,
00:50:34
Speaker
did you think that we, did you think that we could do it? Like, be honest, do you think that we can do it? And I said, yeah. And she said, what, what made you think that we could do it?
00:50:45
Speaker
And I said, cause you show up. Like you show up. Our, that's what our team does. We show up. We had almost perfect attendance this year.
00:50:57
Speaker
And most of the athletes kept it rolling in the summer after our season last year, we had a good summer. And we had an incredible fall. and And that doesn't mean that every workout was perfect.
00:51:09
Speaker
That doesn't mean that, i mean, sometimes athletes would come and they would tell us, all I've got the bandwidth for today is the warmup and some accelerations and some drills. And then I got to go home.
00:51:21
Speaker
I got to study. We'd say, okay, no problem. But the show the little, the the act of showing up, mixing it up with your teammates, having some laughs, going for the 15 minute jog,
00:51:33
Speaker
the except like The difference between a little bit and nothing is huge. And that's, I think that that that insight, like, why did you think that we could achieve this thing?
00:51:45
Speaker
and And the answer is so unsexy. It's so unglamorous. It's like, you you show up. I knew it was happening. Maybe it didn't occur to you because it's not, you know, that, like,
00:52:00
Speaker
you're in it. So it doesn't occur to you that, oh yeah, right. Our team has like pretty close to perfect attendance. Like everybody kind of shows up all the time. And a certain moment, the athlete, that's like the air that they breathe. That's just like the culture that like, this is what we do.
00:52:14
Speaker
But for us as coaches standing back and of seeing it happen and and having seen different iterations of the team for, for me, it was like, you know, I think that, I think that we really do have shot.
00:52:26
Speaker
And the, the only thing that makes us special is the showing up. We don't have six girls who all have, you know, 445, that they ran as members of this or that track club in Montreal.
00:52:43
Speaker
um We are not a team of w ringers. We're a team of kids who show up and they explore what it means to be a student athlete.
00:52:54
Speaker
And, um, i I really hope that they take that with them as they, whether they stick with the sport or don't, I really hope that they remember that like, Oh, right. I was on a really good team.
00:53:07
Speaker
And the only thing that really we had in common was that we all showed up all the time. And in that sense, you know, you can still, even though, well, I guess in, in track and field or in cross country, there's that team component where you're trying to get points and, and stuff like that. So yeah,
00:53:26
Speaker
in a sense you have that, that camaraderie and everything. I'm like flipping things back to hockey. Like it's very much team. Cause it's like, it's the sum of all parts that make it, make it happen. But it's cool to kind of see that in a different way. um And, and basically, you know, everyone pulls their weight and it's a contribution of everybody. Do you, do you think these kids realize their own potential potential?
00:53:49
Speaker
themselves through the work that they're doing? Or is that something you like, you nudge them a little bit to, to let them know um what you see in them? Yeah. I mean, I think, I think it's like one of the things that, you know, here's a, here's an education sort of tie in.
00:54:13
Speaker
There's a, there's a famous study in, you know, that if you, if you, study education pedagogy, you will know. um It's called the Pygmalion effect. And basically that the study, maybe I'll get some of the details wrong, but broadly this is kind of how it goes.
00:54:30
Speaker
There's two groups. Let's say you and i are teachers and I've got a group and you've got a group. um I was told nothing about my group, but what you were told about your group is that These students that you have test really high on these cognition and aptitude tests.
00:54:51
Speaker
You, Justin Pugliese, you have a group of future greats in your midst. And you better not mess it up.
00:55:03
Speaker
So guess what happens when i am told nothing about my group, just treat them like normal students. And you are told that your students are built for greatness. The downstream effects of you being told that lie yeah your students test really high on aptitude cognition tests, when in fact, they're no different from my group.
00:55:26
Speaker
The downstream effect of you going into the classroom believing that these students have greatness within them leads to greater success for your students. relative to my students. So so it it is a self-fulfilling thing.
00:55:40
Speaker
If you, as the educator, go into the classroom with the assumption that your students are built for greatness, they will achieve greatness. And I take that to the coaching.
00:55:50
Speaker
and And think that more and more, like what what are what what our job involves is first of all, so seeing that that kernel of greatness that is inside of everyone.
00:56:03
Speaker
Now, your version of greatness and and this athlete over here's version of greatness might be different, but all of you have inside of you some kernel of greatness.
00:56:16
Speaker
And if if you think of that as a kind of ember, it's my job to below oxygen onto that ember to help it grow and grow and grow and grow and grow until a certain point you have you have achieved, you have manifested the greatness that was inside of you all along.
00:56:34
Speaker
And um I think the athlete gets glimpses of it, but today's athlete is also inundated with noise, inundated with voices from the outside that then become inside voices telling them you're not good enough.
00:56:51
Speaker
This person over here is better than you. This person here is greater than you. You will never achieve the thing that this person over here has achieved. Why haven't you achieved the thing? and That must be because you're inferior. That must be because you're not good enough. The athlete has those voices ringing in his or her ears in a way that you and I probably didn't have because we grew up in a very different culture.
00:57:11
Speaker
So I think a big part of my coaching is, first of all, to really believe it when I tell myself, the athlete in front of me has greatness inside of them.
00:57:22
Speaker
And it's my job to treat them like they have that greatness inside of them, which will make it more likely in the future that that greatness will, in fact, come to fruition. um Do they see it in themselves?
00:57:35
Speaker
Probably not. They get glimpses of it. And when they do, I think it's my job to say, you saw it, right? i you You saw ah something like a sliver of which I see the thing all the time.
00:57:50
Speaker
I see the greatness all the time. Because I'm looking at it from the outside perspective. You're living it. You don't see it, but I see it. and And I think a big part of it is like, you know, and and in practical terms, we do like journaling with my groups where if they have that moment of holy smokes, i just I just performed in a workout in a way that I never thought that I could. i did that interval, you know, two and a half seconds faster than the average.
00:58:22
Speaker
Like I had something left in the tank. Okay, write about it. Mm-hmm. or make sure that you remember it, tell a story about it so that the story that you have ringing in your ears over time is at least as compelling as the, the but story that you're not good enough.
00:58:42
Speaker
You're not going to achieve your goals. You're not built for this. Other people are better than you, et cetera. actually, I coach a handful of athletes myself and I have them, um,
00:58:55
Speaker
comment, you know, whether it's a few words or a sentence on the workout that they did or how they're feeling or stuff like that. So I think that's very interesting because some that oftentimes you just do the thing and you don't reflect on it necessarily. But I think looking back and, and, and journaling those things, I think is, is super powerful to be able to get to where you want to go.
00:59:20
Speaker
I mean, yeah, like the way that I frame it for my athletes is I say, like, there's there's broadly speaking two effects that we want when we train. One is, you know, stimulate the training of effect, the physiological adaptation and the psychological adaptation that is going to put you in a better position to compete at your goal race, right?
00:59:44
Speaker
So one of the effects is physiological, but what we're doing in training is building our bank of evidence. We are generating evidence that we will then gather in order to corroborate the theory not you can do this.
01:00:00
Speaker
So much of it is about building that bank of confidence. Real authentic confidence comes from an accumulation of evidence. But if you forget about the workout, right? If you if you crushed that workout, we did, you know, 20 times 400 and you crushed and you crushed and and you feel really good about it, and then you go home and you don't reflect on it, three days later, you're probably not even going to remember that you did that workout.
01:00:27
Speaker
And I promise you that two you two months down the road, you're not going to remember. So in a way, you're you're cheating yourself out of at least half of the effect of that workout by not recording it reflecting on it telling a story about it, because that's going to be the thing that you're going to look back on During your race week, when you're going crazy because, you know, you're tapering and you're're you've got all this time on your hands, um you know, ah that that bank that you're giving yourself that tells you, oh, I feel confident that I can do this thing because in March, I did these at this pace.
Training Philosophy and Athlete Development
01:01:09
Speaker
felt chilled.
01:01:10
Speaker
at this page and thought you And, or I felt terrible, but I did it. I got through it anyway. I felt terrible at the beginning of the workout, but then midway through the workout, I rallied those, those, that, that bank of experiences that training gives you. I think you, i mean, at least because I'm a writer, i don't, I don't have it unless I write about it.
01:01:33
Speaker
I'm not going remember it. And oftentimes the highlights of someone's career are the events that they sign up for And, and I tell my athletes as well, just like you could have a bad race, you could have a bad day in training. Right. So you have so many days in training that can be wins, yeah even though the results are not always there on the race day.
01:01:58
Speaker
um but if we emphasize too much on that, that goal day, yeah um we can set up ourselves up for disappointment ah in the long run, you know, cause you can have so many more wins in the process.
01:02:13
Speaker
And, and I think this helps to highlight those things. Right. I think that's really, really key. It's setting us up for disappointment and it's, it's robbing us of the joy of,
01:02:27
Speaker
um you know, what we call the process. Like, Like I, I'm, you know, I coach and in a competitive environment and i i love competition and, you know, regardless of who the athlete is, whether in they're in my club group or my university group or my college group, that's the thing that is, is non-negotiable to be in my group is that you've got to compete.
01:02:53
Speaker
You've got to have competitive goals. um But for me, you know, like, especially as I get older and spend more time in the sport, the competition has become almost a pretext for, it you know, letting me get away with caring about the training as much as I do.
01:03:12
Speaker
Like every time I've trained for a marathon, I felt that like the, the marathon is the marathon and know, it's an important day. It's a big day, but it's almost an excuse for like telling my partner or telling my friends or telling myself, like, gotta go for that run.
01:03:30
Speaker
Um, you know, we're not a train to train grip. We train to compete, but, but the joy and the pleasure is in the competing is in the, in the training as much as it is competing. And so if you make it all about the, like, this is, this is this training that I'm doing is really necessary evil to do the thing that i really care. The only thing I care about, which is, you know, performing at a high level on race day, you're,
01:03:57
Speaker
You're right, you're setting yourself up for disappointment, but you're also cheating yourself. like There's a lot of time in this sport. There's a huge um mismatch between the amount of time training and amount of time competing.
01:04:08
Speaker
but yeah yeah but you know If you're Allen Iverson, like practice is not right for practice. I just want to play 82 games a year. That's enough. I'm Allen Iverson. Give me 82 games and you know what?
01:04:21
Speaker
ah The first quarter of the game, that's where I'll practice. But I'll be there in the fourth quarter. Don't worry about it. There's a huge imbalance in our sport between training and competing.
01:04:32
Speaker
If you're going to have a ah ah long and happy life in the sport, love the training. Figure out a way to love the training and lean into the love of training because that's going to be the thing that's going to propel you you know down the road. and Okay, you know like you have a bad marathon.
01:04:50
Speaker
It's disappointing. it really It is disappointing. It's not the be-all and end-all. what What would you say is the greatest challenge for you as a coach? um Yeah, yeah. I thought about this question, what was my greatest challenge as a coach? A lot this year.
01:05:09
Speaker
um Because I did have, Joe and I really really did have really good team and um it was so stimulating and so rewarding and energizing and demanding.
01:05:24
Speaker
And one of the things that I realized, you know, in November, December, is that having a really good team as a coach is just as exhausting as having ah team that's struggling.
01:05:42
Speaker
um Having a team of athletes that show up all the time is a different kind of exhausting than having a team of athletes who don't show up consistently at all.
01:05:54
Speaker
Having a team of athletes that achieve their goals is is a different kind of exhausting from having a team of athletes that fall short of their goals. And one of the things that I've really struggled with this year, and um it's an ongoing struggle, is taking care of myself.
01:06:13
Speaker
um It's, you know, tell my athletes, like, one of the great things that I've heard about human relationships, particularly it was in the context of romantic relationships, but it, it applies to all relationships.
01:06:29
Speaker
Um, I was listening to this thing that, you know who Terry Crews is? Terry Crews is the guy who, um he's that enormous cop on Brooklyn Nine-Nine. used to be a member of the Baltimore Ravens and now he's an actor and really insightful guy. And he was talking about some struggles that he and his partner had and and he wasn't taking very care of himself.
01:06:49
Speaker
And his wife said to him, um you're not taking good care of yourself. And you need to understand that that affects me. You take care of you for me.
01:07:02
Speaker
I take care of me for you. And that was something that I've thought so much about it in the context so all of all my relationships and all of the environments that I'm involved in and embedded in.
01:07:17
Speaker
um Because I love it so much, because I'm so stimulated by it, I'm so curious, I have this incredible energy for it. um That can tip over.
01:07:29
Speaker
And i don't even see it coming. I don't see the exhaustion coming until it's like, hits me like a train. And, um you know, I tell my athletes, one of the reasons why you come to practice, maybe the only reason you come to practice, it's not to get good.
01:07:46
Speaker
It's to help him get good. And he comes to practice to help you get good. And that's how this works. And I got to get better at taking my own advice. Um,
01:07:58
Speaker
If it's true for Amelia, that Amelia takes care of her for others, that's gotta be true for me too. I gotta take care of me for you, for you, for you, for you. Because right now I'm in a very fortunate position where a lot of people rely on me for stuff.
01:08:16
Speaker
And if if I don't figure out a way to make this sustainable, um there's gonna be a point at which I'm not capable of giving as much as the people in my life deserve for me to give
Coaching Challenges and Personal Reflections
01:08:30
Speaker
them.
01:08:30
Speaker
So, you know, we we have rules now in the Preferred L'Homme home where um I'll say to my partner, um um'm going to talk about coaching for five minutes.
01:08:46
Speaker
And after that, going ask you how day went. i'm mean to ask you how your day um and i'm And I'm not just going to pretend to care and wait for my turn to talk about coaching again.
01:09:01
Speaker
going to care. I'm going to care. I'm going shut up and I'm going care. um It means that my phone gets turned off at nine o'clock. um
01:09:14
Speaker
The things that have to start happening that haven't yet are me figuring out Like, when am I going to train? um There will be times where my training needs to take a backseat, right? Like, i don't I don't need to be training for a fall marathon anymore while my athletes are going through cross-country season.
01:09:34
Speaker
um But there are periods in the calendar where I do want to prioritize my training a little bit. um At minimum, I've got to stay consistent with the jogging, stay consistent with the weight room, stay consistent with the mobility.
01:09:49
Speaker
And This year has been a big year. I've taken on that but and new challenge with um coaching in the Sporty Tud program. my like I'm very fortunate and lucky and grateful that I have this team of college athletes that's so fun to be around. I'm so lucky that I get to coach them.
01:10:12
Speaker
um I love my university team. I love my university athletes. I'm in a very lucky position where i've got a lot going on. and um The challenge that i' that is an ongoing challenge is the self-care piece.
01:10:26
Speaker
It's the figuring out a better way to manage my life so that I can be doing this when I'm 60. I don't want to get to the point where I'm 50 and I say, holy Jesus, I can't can't do this anymore. I'm too worn out. and did you Did you see this for yourself? Did you ever think you would be a running coach? Like maybe when you were in track track and field?
01:10:48
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think so. um Partly because, you know, like I, for the same reason that I saw it myself becoming an English literature professor, um it's all an act kind of hybrid mimicry, if you know what i mean? Like, I'm not mimicking one, I'm mimicking kind of a composite of the the best, and I had the best.
01:11:16
Speaker
Yeah. I had the best English professors. I had the best coaches. And, you know, I, I saw myself as a 21 year old English lit student wanting to do the version that I saw professor Calder or professor Matheson doing on the, in front of me.
01:11:36
Speaker
And same thing with the coaches, whether it was age class coaches, Dan Andrews, Tony East, um, my university coaches, i was really lucky that i i I got to be coached at the very end of his career by Lyle Sanderson, who's recently passed away. um And then, you know, as a master coached by John, like I had, I've had the best.
01:12:02
Speaker
And when you, when you have those kinds of experiences, as a certain point, for me, at least I realized like, I have this inside of me and it's not really me. It's like I am a vessel for the wisdom of Tony and the wisdom of Dan and the wisdom of Ivan and the wisdom of Lyle and the wisdom of John.
01:12:27
Speaker
and And if I don't make that available to other people, I'm... I'm letting people, I'm letting those coaches down in a way.
01:12:39
Speaker
Like their legacy lives on in the athletes that not only benefited as athletes and as students and as humans, but, but also, you know, as you're being coached, if you're a certain kind of person, you're being coached, you're also paying attention to how you're being coached.
01:12:58
Speaker
Like, oh, I realized like one of the things that Dan always prioritized was us having fun. um but one of the things that Lyle always prioritized was that we were students first, not and he had a really good team.
01:13:10
Speaker
At a time in his life where he was um he was close to retirement, he wanted to put another banner on the wall. and And even though he was highly, highly competitive, he would say, he called us gang. He said, gang, your students first, not athletes first.
01:13:25
Speaker
Your student, student athlete, not athlete student. um so much So like those like one liners, I find myself saying to my athletes all the time.
01:13:36
Speaker
And yeah, like it's, you Lyle passed away in 2019, 2018, 2019 and nineteen two thousand and eighteen two thousand nineteen and that's when I really started thinking about like, you know, not that like Lyle, Lyle's legacy is going to live on in many, many, many, many athletes, including in mine, you know, like my athletes are getting the benefit of the wisdom of Lyle.
01:14:02
Speaker
They'll, they'll never meet them. They'll, they've never even heard of them, but, but, but that, that transmission is happening through me and I hope it'll happen through athletes that I coach who will then become coaches, who will then become coaches, who will then become coaches.
01:14:17
Speaker
Yeah. And I was going to say like, I mean, it might this might be a really difficult question given what you just said, but what's the greatest lesson that you've learned?
01:14:26
Speaker
Um,
01:14:31
Speaker
uh, you know, i think that the, like,
01:14:41
Speaker
The thing that I think um
01:14:45
Speaker
motivates a lot of I try to remind myself of this every every day, really. ah I remember a professor telling me something he said to his class.
01:15:02
Speaker
He said to his students, caring is an action.
01:15:09
Speaker
Caring isn't something that happens to you, caring is an act that you perform. It's a thing that you do. And that's that's an important lesson, I think, to realize that if you're if you're going to have a meaningful life, I don't know how you do it without caring.
01:15:33
Speaker
Whether it's caring about other people, Caring about ideas, caring about yourself, caring about the world, caring about community. Like, I don't think that people who don't care are happy people.
01:15:47
Speaker
I know I wouldn't be happy if I didn't have things in my life that I cared deeply about. But that caring doesn't move the needle for anybody unless you perform that caring out in the world.
01:16:03
Speaker
Whether it's through getting involved in your community, whether it's through calling up a friend and saying, i want to know how your life is going. i haven't talked to you in a while. Let's let meet up for coffee or let's meet up for lunch and and i want to hear about you.
01:16:17
Speaker
um yeah you know My parents are aging and yeah you know do I care about my parents? Yeah, of course I do. But I'm only performing the act of caring when I call them.
01:16:28
Speaker
I'm only performing the act of caring when I say I'm going to go home and and instead of coming home for four days, I'm going to go home for three weeks. ah That's, I think, a really important lesson that even though this colleague, mine Andrew Higgins, a new policy, he meant, he told me this in relation to his telling his students, but it was something that was like, oh yeah, of course.
01:16:53
Speaker
We think about caring almost like, you know, being struck by lightning. Like I'm in I'm in walk around the world and at some point I'm going to be struck by lightning or I'm not.
01:17:06
Speaker
Like I'm waiting to care about something. And um that's not how it works. You opt into caring. You choose to care. And you you perform that state through behavior.
01:17:23
Speaker
And, you know, that's, I think, That's a big one for me is, you know, thinking about things like love, right? Like love is a verb.
01:17:36
Speaker
Love isn't a state that you inhabit passively. Love is an action that you perform. So, you know, if you ask my partner, like, does Justin love you?
01:17:47
Speaker
Well, I better be performing actions that communicate that love. if If you ask my parents, does Justin love you? I better be performing actions that are loving actions.
01:18:00
Speaker
um So this is like the English lit, you know, part of my brain. It's like the part of speech really matters.
01:18:11
Speaker
Whether we think of something like a verb or a noun, it's an act of doing that is the truth. that moves the needle.
The Impact of Running on Life and Community
01:18:22
Speaker
Actions speak louder than words, maybe we could say.
01:18:26
Speaker
Yeah. Words are pretty important, you know? And yeah, words are pretty important, but you know, so much of ethics, so much of training, so much of character building, so much of relationship building, so much of community building.
01:18:43
Speaker
It's about actions. It's about, it's about actions that are in alignment with a greater purpose.
01:18:49
Speaker
you're You're so passionate about the sport. I could feel it through through your words. um and And you give so much to it. What would you say that it's given you? oh man.
01:19:02
Speaker
a flight I mean, and like it's it's not ah an exaggeration to say some version of everything.
01:19:14
Speaker
um it's why you know It's why I went to school. i didn't Like I said to you, like I didn't go to university to to study. I went to run.
01:19:26
Speaker
um And through that, in my involvement with the Husky Track and Field program, I found myself in English literature courses where my my head got blown off.
01:19:38
Speaker
Where I was like, oh my God, I can't believe that there is this world of ideas and stories. And, you know, as ah as a person who lives in the world, like we just inherited this this um library of of ideas and thoughts.
01:19:59
Speaker
and And we only get to know it if if we spend time engaging with these voices from the past. um You know, I've got, I've got the best job in the world.
01:20:11
Speaker
I get to teach English literature to students who are encountering this stuff for the first time. And it is the only way that that happens is, is because of the sport of track and field.
01:20:22
Speaker
Um, I'm really lucky that I have friends that I've had since I was 12, 13. twelve thirteen And, and those friendships are so, um, deep and, um,
01:20:39
Speaker
substantial. A lot of that has to do with the fact that we grind it together as teammates in training groups. You know, like if you, you know this, I'm sure ah the intimacy that you create with somebody who you go on a 90 minute tempo run with and, you know, they pick you up when you're having a bad day and you pick them up when you're having a, when they're having a bad day and,
01:21:05
Speaker
you score points for the team and that helps you you know win a championship or they get eighth and not ninth and that scores one point and that really matters to the whole group. And so those um those bonds that get created when you're ah member of a team and a member of a training group. Like I am so fortunate that at the age of 42 now, i I've got friends that I've had for 30 years.
01:21:32
Speaker
Mm-hmm. you know, three quarters of my life and, um, long time, three, three decade friendships. Those are long friendships. And most of them are through the sport of track and field.
01:21:45
Speaker
Um, you know, like I learned to, um, I don't know that I get through my PhD without having that, you know,
01:21:58
Speaker
I don't know if you can swear on your podcast, um, actually that, that like get up and shovel shit. My mentality of being an endurance sport athlete, like sitting and working on my dissertation.
01:22:14
Speaker
Um, a lot of the days were just shoveling shit. It was just putting words down on the page, good, bad, ugly, whatever I'm here doing the thing. And I know because I've got the experience of training for, you know, competition,
01:22:27
Speaker
that that the day-to-day thing is what's going to allow me to reach this goal. um And then now, now at you know at the age of 42, what the sport has given me is an incredible ah sense of purpose that i I get to help people who are going through it for the first time, just like I did when I was their age.
01:22:51
Speaker
coach 12-year-olds, I coach twelve year olds i coach 20 year olds, I coach 34 year olds, I coach 44 year olds. You know, athletes who are maybe going through the thing for the first time and I get to be the one that, that, that facilitates that. And maybe they will take something from me that's akin to what I took from Dan and Lyle and Ivan and all the coaches that I had. And ah that's an incredible source of purpose that I have that is so rewarding.
01:23:22
Speaker
So yeah, like what does the sport give me? Like, It is not an exaggeration to say everything. Yeah, and I can say too, like this this sense of team. I i mean, but I've never felt it maybe more than um maybe not a team sense, but just leaning on somebody during a run, like during COVID, right? Where...
01:23:46
Speaker
I had one one buddy, Jeff, like we would even, even though, you know, there was social distancing and stuff like that, we would just go and run on the mountain um and just talk about everything. Cause it was chaotic and crazy. And it was like our mental health almost.
01:24:02
Speaker
We'd go run up and down it. And yeah, Like looking back, like it was really therapeutic, I think, for both of us. Like we we grew closer as friends, certainly. But just to like talk through different different things, there's so much stuff going on at the time that we nobody really knew exactly what was happening. Right. So, yeah, ah it was a social time. It was a time for physical health and also mental health. And yeah.
01:24:31
Speaker
I think you know under a microscope, like that was like that's maybe where I felt that the most. It was most obvious. yeah But then working with a team, like I'm not living in Montreal anymore and and connecting with the community that exists here. I joined a team here. It's a big group with different goals, but you get to meet people just like you from...
01:24:53
Speaker
all kinds of different places and ah that there's some familiarity and maybe some new new friendships, right? That you can yeah can build off of. So yeah, it's it's it's more than just sport in a lot of ways, right? it's it's a it's They say it's a lifestyle and it's um it's a way to kind of enrich your own.
01:25:15
Speaker
And it can very very much enrich your own life, right? so Yeah. I mean, it like, it better be something more than sport. It better be something more than, um, wins and losses, PBs.
01:25:28
Speaker
Um, yeah. Like, um, one of the ways that I've kind of learned to frame this in my coaching and my approach to coaching is, is, you know, we are competitive and we're, we shoot for the stars. Like, you know, we, we want to,
01:25:47
Speaker
we want to go to national championships again and hell, we might, we might have a shot at winning it. Right. That's the goal, but the goal is not the purpose.
01:26:01
Speaker
Right. The goal, the goal is the thing that the goal is, the North star that but we're pursuing, but the purpose is something greater than the goal.
01:26:12
Speaker
ah purpose is self-discovery for me at least i i don't want to you know speak for anybody else for me the purpose is self-discovery for me the purpose is coming to terms with with my my strength and my weaknesses um it's um it's getting involved in my community it's um it's having a sense of transcendent purpose that, that what I do affects other people.
01:26:46
Speaker
And sport is the vehicle for those things that matter so much more. And it's like, Hey, like however you get your, your, your sense of community, that's cool. If it's running awesome.
01:26:57
Speaker
If it's knitting or dungeons, dungeons and dragons, i don't for me, it's running for me, it's a sport. And, um,
01:27:09
Speaker
Sometimes like we, we've, we forget that as coaches, I'm guilty of this at times as athletes, athletes are, you know, who are so goal oriented can sometimes forget that actually the, the, the greater purpose is something that's related to the goal, but it's not the goal.
01:27:31
Speaker
The goal is the goal is separate from the purpose.
Personal and Coaching Goals
01:27:36
Speaker
What's your next goal?
01:27:39
Speaker
Um, well, um, as a coach, well, I'll start, I'll start here. Um, my first goal is so be a really good partner.
01:27:58
Speaker
Um, and that means being a person who really shows up for my, my, my, my partner, my friends,
01:28:09
Speaker
my family, um being a person who continues to evolve in that crucially important part of my life.
01:28:22
Speaker
So that's the first goal. And that and you know it is going to require getting better at taking care of myself, um getting better turning it off, having ah having a line that says,
01:28:35
Speaker
ah line that says no No more coaching talk today. No more thinking about coaching. and more so So getting better at that. that's it That's a goal.
01:28:49
Speaker
Second goal is to continue refining an athlete first mindset. um Continue to get better at putting the athlete first and getting better ah asking the question, what is it like for the athlete?
01:29:10
Speaker
What is it like to be coached by me? What is it like to be in this environment? What is it like to be a student athlete in 2025 at Dawson College? Getting better at asking those kinds of questions that elicit the feedback that is going to make me a better coach.
01:29:27
Speaker
that's That's another thing that's a goal. If you want to talk about performance goals, um I'm a highly competitive individual.
01:29:39
Speaker
I think we've got the athletes who have what it takes to top three in the country. And on a good day, what the hell?
01:29:51
Speaker
Why not try to win it? I think we have that group. And I would love for them win it, to win the whole thing.
01:30:03
Speaker
Now that's going to require... some real work on my part because I'm going to have to get really good ah separating what I want from what they want.
01:30:16
Speaker
It's got to be from them. It's got to be generated from the group, from within the group. But yeah, competitively, of the kind of discoveries that I had this summer that I think I'm a 1500 fifteen hundred mile guy and uh yeah like i i raced seven times this summer and raced a road mile and two 1500s and um
01:30:55
Speaker
i was like holy smokes i still have i still have a little bit of speed in these legs and so uh I guess I'm telling the world I want to run a four Oh nine 1500. Okay. I ran a four, I ran four 16 this summer and I didn't do very much volume.
01:31:16
Speaker
I, um, it's kind of managing an injury. i was doing very manageable workouts. Um, you know, like a typical kind of Monday workout would be like six times one 50 800 meter pace.
01:31:30
Speaker
Um, um And then I would do like a midweek workout that's like, you know, maybe something like eight times 300 at 1500 kind of pace.
01:31:44
Speaker
Sometimes I would, I would replace the 1500 meter workout with something like a 5k workout, lots of thresholds, um but not huge volume.
01:31:54
Speaker
And I think the missing piece for, for my training is take that weekly volume from like this summer, it was kind of like 60, 70 K. Like if I can take that from 60, 70 to 90 a hundred and stay healthy and, and continue working on the speed, I think I can run a 409.
01:32:16
Speaker
And yeah, I, I'm highly motivated to try and do that. I love competing. And so, you know, like I want to get into,
01:32:28
Speaker
provincial championships, masters nationals, provincial cross country and mix it up and throw PRs out the window, throw whatever time goal out the window and just respond to the conditions of racing and try to fight all the way to the finish line and beat everybody that I can possibly beat on the day don and then have some laughs with the boys after. That was so fun. I raced Canadian championships this summer and Everyone there has kind of a similar story to mine in a way, like collegiate athlete, lots of time off, and then got back into the sport in sort of like middle age and and realized like, oh, wow, like um not only do I love this, but maybe a little bit better than I thought that I could you know, when I thought about getting back into the sport.
01:33:18
Speaker
The camaraderie of, you know, jogging around with the boys after the race and talking about our lives was like, well, I didn't have that when I was 21, right? I wasn't like,
01:33:30
Speaker
going with the, you know, the Guelph guys for a cool down and being like, Hey, like, you know, it was like enemy. Right. yeah Now it's so different. Now it's like, we're all just fellow travelers who kind of love the same thing. And, um, yeah. So, i you know, I would, I have those performance goals, but, but, you know, really the goal is to continue using running and coaching and, and my involvement with the track and field and running community to, um,
01:34:02
Speaker
make my life better, make the lives of people around me better, use, you know, the transmit the voices that I've got, you know, that I'm lucky to be there, kind of, I've been lucky to benefit from having it my life. And yeah, just, just doing that. The day to day thing is really what, what I love in the most.
Engagement and Conclusion
01:34:25
Speaker
Well, where can people um find out more about you, Justin? ah Well, you can find out how much I talk about my running team on rate, my professors.com. One of the complaints about me is that I um talk about running a lot, which is true.
01:34:45
Speaker
i I talk about running a lot. um So if you want to find out what people don't like about me, you can go to rate my professors.com and read all the complaints that students have. I have a LinkedIn, um which I, I,
01:35:00
Speaker
i do a little bit more like long form writing on, on LinkedIn actually. Um, yeah you know, maybe once every two or three weeks I'll have something to say and I'll do a little bit of long form writing. Um, if you like cats, uh, my Instagram is a great place to see lots of cat, um, lots of cat footage. Uh, my, my two cats have been very well behaved today. I, I must've given them that kudos.
01:35:27
Speaker
Um, yeah, but I, I also like update stuff. you know, about my teams and, and every now and then I'll have something to say on maybe a book review or something like that on it on Instagram, but yeah.
01:35:39
Speaker
Yeah. But to you know, the best place to find me is a Claude Robillard on Mondays and Wednesdays at 6 PM. And if you're in the Montreal area and you're looking for a coach to help you, you know, reach your goals, ah maybe I can help you. And I'd be, I'd be thrilled to talk.
01:35:56
Speaker
Awesome. Justin. Well, yeah I want to thank you so much for coming on today and sharing your own wisdom from all the wisdom that you've received. And, you know, it was a great conversation about, you know, the process of running more more importantly and and how important that is as we go through life and and the lessons it teaches us.
01:36:20
Speaker
for life as well. um when I get back to Montreal, hopefully we can get a ah run in for sure. and love that yeah i wish you all the best in your, in your coaching and, uh, and your own, in your own goals and wish you all the best and take care of yourself.
01:36:38
Speaker
Thanks. Yeah. And you too. And yeah, i remember, um, you being a very, uh, even though even prior to knowing who you were, I remember you being a very inspiring person. Uh, I remember seeing your Berlin Marathon. and i sent John a message. was like, I want to run with that guy. I think you ran 240-something in Berlin.
01:36:59
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know if Berlin... ah what did I don't even know what I ran. My best is 245. I ran that at CIM under John, actually, out of the pandemic. Yeah, okay, it was CIM. And and i i I saw that you had...
01:37:11
Speaker
done that. And I was like, I want to run with this guy. like hes waiting like does he I was very but inspired by that. and Yeah, so that would be cool, man, if if if you find yourself in Montreal and and you want either join my group for a run or or get together and go for a run. I would love it.
01:37:31
Speaker
Yeah, he actually got me back to a great, um just that's my best time. And i had it had been a couple of years since doing it. And it was the first race out of the pandemic. And I really was really quite surprised by the result.
01:37:45
Speaker
And it was probably the greatest, the best race that i I put together um that I can remember, actually, just I remember like it was like a pretty perfect negative split, but like a two minute negative split. It was like, holy smokes, this is like, this is a work of art.
01:38:04
Speaker
Yeah, it felt great. I mean, I don't know. I don't, I've done probably over 10 marathons now and ah it felt so good. I mean, i can't, I can't explain it. I don't like, that's why they say when those perfect days happen, just appreciate them because you don't know when they're going come around again. So and yeah, hopefully we can get back to it again. But yeah.
01:38:25
Speaker
Anyways, thanks so much for the chat. Good to catch up and we'll see you in Montreal next time. <unk> Looking forward to it. Take care, Justin. You too. Thanks. Ready to crush your next goal?
01:38:39
Speaker
With 15 years of experience across endurance sports, from 5Ks to ultras, over 10 marathons with a personal best of two hours, 45 minutes, including Boston, New York City, and Berlin, plus two Ironmans, I know what it takes to achieve real results.
01:38:55
Speaker
But training for a race is about more than just logging miles. It's about training smarter, and that's where a coach makes all the difference. As your coach, I'll create a personalized week-by-week plan tailored to fit your unique goals, lifestyle, and schedule.
01:39:11
Speaker
You'll also get guidance on race day strategy, nutrition, pre-race routines, and the insider tips that can transform your performance. With a coach, you're not guessing through training.
01:39:23
Speaker
You're following a proven, customized roadmap with support every step of the way. So if you're ready to train smarter and reach new levels, email me at justin at justinstridepod.com and let's make those goals happen.
01:39:37
Speaker
Thanks for tuning in to the Just In Stride podcast. I truly appreciate you taking the time to listen and I hope you enjoyed that conversation as much as I did. Please take a minute after this to rate and review our show on Apple Podcasts. With your feedback, we'll be able to make the show even better and it'll help us reach new listeners too.
01:39:55
Speaker
You can also find us on Instagram at Just In Stride Pod for all the latest episodes and updates. Of course, this show wouldn't be possible without a solid team behind me. With logo and design by Vanessa Pugliese, as well as audio, music, and editing by Forrest McKay, a huge thank you goes out to both of them.
01:40:14
Speaker
Guest outreach, social media, writing, and advertising are handled by me, your host, Justin Pugliese. Finally, we'd like to thank you, our listeners, for coming along for the ride with Justin Stride.