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Joe Corcione on building an Ultra Life, tackling huge goals and mileage, dealing with the unexpected, making positive life changes, from addict to ultra, trail community, coaching others, building his own trail running podcast
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In this episode we have a guest who truly represents the grit, determination, and passion it takes to overcome obstacles and achieve extraordinary things, none other than Joe Corcione.
Joe is a run coach, ultramarathon runner, and host of The Everyday Ultra Podcast—a platform that empowers athletes to elevate their running and personal growth.
His journey is nothing short of remarkable. From battling addiction to becoming an ultra-endurance athlete, he’s shown that no matter where you begin, you have the power to create your own path to success.
Get ready for an episode packed with inspiration and practical tips to help you level up—both on the trails and in life. Let’s dive in!
Joe Corcione's Inspiring Path to Ultra Marathon Glory (youtube.com)
(26) Joe Corcione | LinkedIn
Joe Corcione trades alcohol and drugs for ultra running, podcasting (runspirited.com)
Joe Corcione | Ultrarunning Coach (@joecorcione) • Instagram photos and videos
Everyday Ultra | Podcast on Spotify
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Thanks for tuning in to the Just In Stride Podcast. I truly appreciate you taking the time to listen and I hope you enjoyed that conversation as much as I did. Please take a minute after this to rate and review our show on Apple Podcasts. With your feedback we’ll be able to make the show even better and it’ll help us reach new listeners too. You can also find us on Instagram @justinstridepod and YouTube @justinstridepod for all the latest episodes and updates. Glad you came along for the ride with Just In Stride!
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Transcript
Introduction and Sponsorship
00:00:03
Speaker
Hello, and welcome to the Justin's Drive podcast. I'm your host, Justin Puyese. If you love endurance sports, you've definitely come to the right place. On this show, we'll talk to athletes, coaches, and professionals who can help us reach our true potential. Being a student of distance running for over 10 years and interviewing people in the sport for the last five, I've learned a ton, but there's always more to discover. Everyone has a story, and I know you'll resonate with each of our guests as we embark on this new journey together.
00:00:34
Speaker
Join us at home, on the road, or while you run. Together, we'll have some fun. So follow along on Instagram at justinstridepod and your favorite podcast platform and prepare to be inspired. Come along for the ride with Justin Stride.
00:00:51
Speaker
This episode is presented by our friends at Exact Nutrition, a tasty and healthy way for you to fuel your body before, during, and after a solid training session. I can't leave the house without a few fruit bars in my pocket and they never make it back home. Exact is offering you 50% off your order when you use the code justinstride. So head to exactnutrition dot.com and fuel your goals today.
Guest Introduction: Joe Corcion
00:01:14
Speaker
In this episode, we have a guest who truly represents the grit, determination, and passion it takes to overcome obstacles and achieve extraordinary things, none other than Joe Corcion. Joe is a run coach, ultra marathon runner, and host of the Everyday Ultra podcast, a platform that empowers athletes to elevate their running and personal growth. His journey is nothing short of remarkable from battling addiction To becoming an ultra endurance athlete, he's shown that no matter where you begin, you have the power to create your own path to success. Get ready for an episode packed with inspiration and practical tips to help you level up, both on the trails and in life. Let's dive in.
Joe's Endurance Sports Journey
00:02:00
Speaker
Joe, welcome to the Justin Stride podcast. I appreciate you coming on.
00:02:04
Speaker
Thanks so much, Justin. I'm excited to be here and, dude, you've had some great guests on the podcast. So it's an honor to to be another one on your awesome show and excited to to have a chat about all the things and inspire people out there. Awesome. Thanks so much. And what a great voice you have too. Do you have a podcast yourself? but Coincidentally, ah yes. So I do have a podcast. It's called Everyday Ultra. And the whole ethos of the podcast is helping listeners be better endurance athletes every day.
00:02:32
Speaker
Um, whether it's someone who's looking to get started on their running journey or maybe someone who's, you know, been in the sport for a long, long time and wants to, you know, learn those tips to get better. Uh, we interview people from the top of the sport to the back of the pack. And then also I share my journeys and trials and tribulations and lessons as well. And, um, yeah. And, you know, we've helped tons and tons of people to be better endurance athletes, finish their first ultra PR their ultras. And, um, yeah, it's been, it's been an incredible ride since.
00:03:02
Speaker
just trying to help people. Right. That's what it's all about, man. I think like, that's like the coolest thing. And like, uh, you know, um, you know, I started the podcast initially. It's interesting because I started because I wanted to learn from the best people in the sports. Like I, I had a background in endurance sports, but mostly in like, uh, obstacle course racing and triathlon.
00:03:26
Speaker
And I just, you know, broken the service into ultra running. I had done a 50 miler at the time, but I executed it terribly um because I didn't know what the hell it was doing. And so I started the podcast just because I wanted to talk with people who are great at the sport and experience to like learn from them. And I said, Hey, like, you know, I'm sure I'm not the only one with these questions. I'm sure there's a lot of other people. So I was like, let me just record these conversations and Lo and behold, 10,000 listeners an episode later and spanning the charts over multiple countries, US, s Canada, UK, it looks like that hypothesis was true. and It's just cool to see so many people are just learning in from these awesome conversations. and How long have you been doing it for? so The podcast, it's going on about two and a half years now, which is which is awesome. so Two and a half years now. i mean my My experience in endurance sports i kind of goes you know into
00:04:15
Speaker
want to say like six ish years, six, seven years. So I've been in the sport for a while. Um, and then I really started to want to get super serious on it. You know, I would say like, you know, two and a half, three years ago, I'd say actually it's closer to three years now with the podcast. So, um, yeah, because when when I first started, it was really just for, you know, going out and having fun and not saying that's a bad thing, but I really wanted to like be the best that I could. And I think that always requires, you know, people to learn more, whether it is,
00:04:42
Speaker
reading a book or listening to a podcast like this one or someone else or also hiring a coach. right like I did all those things and you know I found that my progress exponentially increased. and so um you know it was It was a really good kind of lesson, not just with the podcast, but but just in general. It's like if you want to get better, like learn from people who have done the thing that you want to do.
00:05:01
Speaker
And um a lot of the times, like the strategies are like easily ah replicatable like in your own life. And so um I found that like throughout the endurance journey. When people ask me, like what's the biggest shift that you made, it was you know surrounding myself with mentors, both directly and indirectly, that I've paved the way from there. who and And that's a fun thing about the sport, too, that you can have access to these athletes, right? And that they're so willing to share. like I love hockey, but I can't go talk to Sidney Crosby or Hey, you're talking to a penguins fan, man. So I don't know if that reference was like well placed, but that was, that was a good one. Well, say that it was, I have a good, yeah there you go I wish I could talk to Sidney Crosby. That'd be a dream for me. Right. But like, you just don't have access to the stars of the sport. Whereas what we're doing, we, you know, it's still difficult, but you, you have a better shot at it anyways. And, and they're so willing to share.
00:05:59
Speaker
you know, whatever it is kind of that you asked them, you know? Yeah. A hundred percent. And that's like the cool thing about ultra running, right? Like I think, um, and not to like speak ill will about these other areas. And I was even having a call with my athletes last night that I coach and I was kind of talking about the same thing, like.
00:06:15
Speaker
You know, I came from OCR background and I came from triathlon background. and And not to say that like there was anything wrong with it, but it was very individualized. Like it was very much like, this is my performance. This is like what I'm going to do out here. And it's like, stay out of my lane kind of thing. Not in a mean way, but it was just very much like I want to like do the best that I can and everything else. Kind of is like a little bit on the wayside, right? Um, again, not saying it's a bad thing. It's just a little bit more hyper focused on the self.
00:06:42
Speaker
And then when I moved to the world of ultra running, like I was just surprised at just how inclusive it is in terms of even the elite athletes, like wanting everyone to be better. Like one of the things that, I mean, even this is just very recently when I did coconut on a two 50, um, I was, you know, I was running with like some of the front runners in the beginning and Arlen Glick guy came in third place. He's one of the best runners like, uh, you know, in the sport right now. Um, there was a guy who he was running with a pack.
00:07:08
Speaker
and his pack like snapped and Arlen literally goes back and backtracks and spends two minutes with this guy trying to figure out his pack for him. And I was like, here's a guy who has told me blatantly he wanted to win Cocodona and here he is stopping, helping out someone, his competitor out there.
00:07:27
Speaker
Um, just because he wanted to have a good, and he's like, yeah, man, I'll like talk to my crew, see if they can give you an extra pack. Like it was just the coolest thing I'd ever seen. And I think, you know, as much as I love the sport from like what we get out of it, the community is just, I think it's what has kept me stayed in here. And I think that's why I maybe didn't stay as much in triathlon and I didn't stay as much in OCR. And again, not to speak bad about them, but I just think there's more of this, like.
00:07:51
Speaker
unspoken family vibe in ultra running that I think is just
Cocodona 250 Race Experience
00:07:54
Speaker
irreplaceable. and And to your point, to bring it back full circle, like it's it's amazing how much elite athletes are willing to like talk to just everyday people just to help them out. And like it's so cool to see that. And what do why do you think that is in in ultra in the ultra scene? like Maybe also after doing it for a while, why it's been able to to like maintain that energy and that vibe that that is known for? It's a good question. i think you know I think because there's such a deep like sense of human elements when it comes to these ultra distances. right Not saying that you don't get that in like a road marathon or an Ironman, but like think about it like this. right like You look at one of the most competitive races, Hard Rock 100, those athletes, the top athletes are out there for 21 hours.
00:08:45
Speaker
You look at like the top competitors at like Kona or like any of those other races, like it's going to be well short of that as well. and I think there's just something that brings out that deep human element that we have inside of ourselves when we go these very long distances.
00:08:59
Speaker
And that deep human element is like, you know, you become more connected with the earth or like you really figure out like the benefits of suffering. And I also think one of the things that makes us so human is the ability to connect. And so I think like when we get to that point, it almost like strips away the ego in a way that, you know, we can't ignore like, you know, the true sense of ourselves of wanting to connect with other people and wanting to help. And I think like, as ultra runners, we all go through that experience. And so it, I think, I think the sport almost like removes the ego, like on a deeper sense, more so than any other sport, which allows us to be more open to other people and everything. That's just my hypothesis. And that probably sounded pretty woo woo, but that's a, that would be my take on that for sure. You made me think about something that like the end of a marathon, you know, people are, there's carnage, you know, people feel like shit. and But generally speaking, they look pretty good. When you finish an ultra,
00:09:53
Speaker
Like you got scratches, you got dirt, you rip things. its you you You cross the line with a different pair of shoes than you started. It's like so different, like in many ways, like like do you survived something um and you survived it kind of together, out there together, right? So there's this togetherness and and certainly you look a lot different than when you started. so And so how did your race go?
00:10:21
Speaker
Uh, for coconut specifically or yeah. I mean, coconut, I mean, that was my first 200 plus mile race, 250 total. Um, and honestly, like, you know, anytime that I go into a race, it's the first of a distance i'm I'm there to learn. Like I'm there to just gain the experience and.
00:10:38
Speaker
see what the distance is like and and learn the experiences for me. Whereas like once I've done the distance, then I like to like be more of like, okay, how can I be the very, very best on here? Because there's always an element when you go to these farther distances that are really unreplicable in training, right? So like if you're training for like a hundred miles or 250 miles for the first time,
00:10:58
Speaker
You're never going to run or I shouldn't say never, but you shouldn't really run 100 miles in training and you shouldn't run, you know, 250 miles in training. Whereas like in a marathon, like I know some people get very close to that, like a marathon, you can get to like, you know, 22, 24 miles in training and then you just got two miles to go and it's there. Whereas like a hundred, like maybe the most you go is like 100K. And I'm not saying that's true for everybody, but like, you know, it's very rare that you see people, you know, get close to that 100 mile distance for like their first 100 mile and then let alone 200 miles, right? Like you might run a hundred miles of tune up, but you still have double the distance or in Kokonona's case, like, you know, 2.5 of the distance. um So all that being said on on your question of how it went, I did really want to do well. Like I said, Hey, like, you know, if the cards fall into place, like I'd love to be up there, I'd love to compete, but
00:11:45
Speaker
There was a lot of things I learned along the way. Like I learned um really how to dial in sleep a lot more. Like I think that was like a big X factor. Um, and I learned just where the mind goes in these 250 mile races. Like, and I had done multiple, a hundred milers, 50 milers, a hundred Ks before.
00:12:04
Speaker
But I'd never done anything of that caliber and it was just so interesting to see where the mind went. And I, when I look about like my race performance, like all the things that I see is like, Oh, these are, these are things that like were new to me and like things that I've learned for the next time. And I feel good about that. Like, I feel like everything that I could have prepared for and could have like predicted like went pretty well.
00:12:24
Speaker
Um, but like the things that I want to say didn't go well, but the things that didn't go to plan necessarily were just more so things that I don't think I would have learned if I didn't actually throw myself into the weeds. And so even though like, you know, I, I was 86 hours, like top, like top 20 male, um, you know, of course I would, would have loved to be up there, but like I'm, I was stoked. Like I, I had no reservations about the finish cause like I had learned so much and like.
00:12:47
Speaker
Now I feel super confident that like you know when I do line up for this distance again, like I can come back and like really do well because like I'm just stoked on the lessons. and so like I always say like anytime you're racing a distance the first of its kind, like if you come away learning something, like that's that's a great race. like If you learn something that's a great race, like if it's your first time doing it, because like how the hell would you have known? right like and so i think like you know Then it comes into the second one, like yeah then you can start to find tweak it, and you can start to like have some things, and then it comes into the rule. of like
00:13:18
Speaker
you know I find out once shame on shame on the race if I find out twice shame on me kind of thing. So, um, yeah, but I was overall stoked and and it was just an incredible
Lessons from Endurance Sports
00:13:28
Speaker
experience. And like, I mean, like I said before, you get stripped down to the ego in these races, like 250 mile races is like strips you to the bone. Like there's one quote that, uh, Dean Karnassa says, and you know, regardless of, you know, whatever, I'm not religious, but I think the quote says a lot of stuff, but Dean Karnassa says something along the lines of like,
00:13:47
Speaker
If you want to like if you want to like find yourself, like run a marathon, and if you want to find God, like run an ultra. And I always say, like if you want to like know the deepest, darkest side of yourself and like get enlightened, run a 200-mile race, which I will add onto there. And like yeah, it it strips it to the core for sure. I can't even get my head around like a 100-mile or let alone 250. So ah props to you, man. that's that's so That's amazing. It's crazy. like so So you mentioned two things there, and I'm just interested in that because when I'm running a marathon, I'm not thinking about sleep, you know? So I want to know, like, you like what did you learn about sleep? And yeah I'm assuming you're not talking about before the race, you're talking about like during the race, you you had to sleep at some point. So where did your mind go? What happens with your mind?
00:14:34
Speaker
Yeah. So it's interesting when when a lot of people look at these 200 mile races, like the first most popular questions on sleep. And what was really interesting was the year before that I had actually done like a coconut on a pre-race series where I interviewed like people from the top of the pack, mid pack, back of the pack to go over their training and stuff like that. Cause I knew I eventually wanted to do the race and I knew the sport was only getting more popular and more people were bringing to interest into 200. So I said, like, let's just kind of like,
00:14:58
Speaker
corral all these athletes and see how the training is and I asked everyone on sleep and for me like I'm very much like a big believer in like success leaves clues meaning like when you see success there's a lot of common elements and I asked all these people about sleep and there was no common answer between every single person.
00:15:15
Speaker
So my my lesson going into this race is like sleep is very idiosyncratic. like Some people need longer naps. Some people can go longer without sleep. Some people can um do better in shorter doses of it. Some people can um handle caffeine better. right like there's it's It's so it like interesting on the person itself. And so really when you're going into a race, like a 200 mile race, you're almost like, for the first time, you're really rolling the dice because you don't know how your body's gonna react. And what's interesting when you look at the,
00:15:44
Speaker
year's um winners Every year's winner at Kokodona, they have all had experience in the 200 mile distance before. and I think that that reigns true because like they know the distance, they know the sleep strategies, they know all that stuff as well. and so like For me, how I had approached it was I thought that if I had banked time like early on sleeping, like I could probably go for a little longer without it.
00:16:07
Speaker
And it turned out that like for me, um, I mean, you're going to get tired no matter what. And like, I found that I, it was interesting because when I thought about sleep deprivation, going to the race, I also thought about like how it applied to my life. And I know for me, like if I, if I'm sleep deprived in life, I suck at life. Like I just, I'm.
00:16:25
Speaker
It's hard for me to operate. Like I just, I just don't do well in sleep deprivation. So my big thing, I think during the race, I got really nervous of like getting to like an incoherent state. So anytime I would feel myself get like very exhausted, I would just take a nap. And I think I slept too much.
00:16:39
Speaker
And the problem was not only did I sleep too much, I think I timed it in a wrong way because what would happen was I would sleep like right before like really technical or rough sections where like no matter what I was going to move slow. And then I would stretch my sleep out on some of the runnable sections where at that point I just got so exhausted where I was like,
00:16:59
Speaker
zombie walking on a dirt road that you can easily run on so i think like i slept too much and i think the timing of sleep like i didn't i didn't really put together like the strategic timing of sleep that you can get knowing the course and knowing what's ahead of you um and so i think those were like the two biggest thing so yeah i slept for three hours over eighty six hours and i thought that was a lot Like ideally I think like, you know, if you want to compete at these things, you got to be at like 90 minutes max for 250 miles. And then even for the 200 miles, there's people who aren't even sleeping anymore. Um, that's just how fast it's getting, but.
00:17:30
Speaker
Yeah, that's, uh, that's there too. And then to your second question, I'm like, where the mind goes. You know, it's really interesting because I think, you know, I've done multiple a hundred miles before and everything. And i I truly believe that, you know, you can be very successful in those distances when you have these negative thoughts coming in and like all of this, like low points and like you become a ninja at like reframing those thoughts and changing your mind state and like do all that stuff. Like that's all a skill that you can have. And I know for me, like when I think about my races, like I'd be in a low point and I was,
00:17:58
Speaker
And I think, just in my own assessment, I think I was pretty strong at that, of being able to turn it around. And I remember there was one part of Coconino, it was mile 190, it was a flat road, you can easily run this section. A mile 190 though. And I was just so, every single emotion was going through my head, from anger, to happiness, to sadness, to laughter, to just a bunch of things at once.
00:18:25
Speaker
And I was just feeling so weird and I tried to like employ all the tactics to like try and circumnavigate that as I wouldn't 100 miler, but nothing would work. Like it was just trying to like find that solution to like turn it off and it like wouldn't work, wouldn't work. And then it did click to me like later in the race. It was like, Oh, like.
00:18:41
Speaker
Once you're this far in a race, you can't turn it off. You just gotta to deal with it. And you just gotta be like, this sucks, and like that voice is gonna be there, but like now I just gotta accept it as a part of me throughout this race. Whereas I think at a shorter distance, you can get very good at almost not not turning it off, but at least like reframing itself. But you just get so exhausted, you get so tired, you just get so like just sleepep deprivive the sleep that like you just can't turn it off. like Your body's just screaming at you, and like you just have to like focus on putting up with it and accepting that it's there and then just like really grit your teeth through it. it's ah It's a gnarly experience. I've never experienced something like that before. You got to be friends with it kind of thing. Yeah. Unfortunately. I'm going to say it's like your pace are being out there, right? Yeah, that's nuts, man. That's crazy. Oh, man. i Yeah, I can't even imagine what that's like, but you know props to you for for going there and and doing it. and what And how does the body hold up through that distance? you know You're probably moving at a slower pace than you would you know shorter stuff. but
00:19:41
Speaker
Like how does it hold up given that I'm out of time on feet? Yeah, it's it's interesting because, you know, i I don't think anyone goes through any a hundred mile race, like feeling great at the end. Like, I mean, like all my a hundred mile races, like, you know, by like mile 80, like I'm pretty sore, like pretty, pretty tuned up in there. And it was interesting because at like cocadona, um, I never really, like, I remember passing a hundred mile mark and like my legs felt fine. And I was like, Oh wow, like this is, this is great. Like, this is awesome.
00:20:11
Speaker
Um, but then it's, I would say like, I was surprised at how it came in waves. I mean, like there would be times where I would just have insane pain in my legs, like feeling like I can't take another step. And then all I would do is like eat a lot of protein, drink a protein shake, eat a ton of food. And then out of nowhere, like my legs would just feel totally fine. So it it wasn't really like this just downward thing. And usually like in a lot of one hundred milers, like it would just be like, yeah, your legs just get progressively worse and worse and worse. And then you're just like super sore at the end.
00:20:40
Speaker
and you would think at like 250 miles that like you know it just kind of gets worse and worse but what was interesting was that like it just came in waves. I mean like there was times like you know at mile 110 where I like felt like every step was painful and then there was times at like mile 190 where my legs felt strong like out of nowhere it was just crazy. um The one thing that never did really feel too strong out there was my feet like like the The amount of steps that you take over 250 miles is insane. And you're in Arizona where the the ground is so frickin' dry and rocky and like hard and everything like that. like My feet like hurt so bad. And and every step was like so painful. And I remember like there was one section, like my feet hurt so bad, I thought it was my entire legs, because it like literally was just radiating up my entire body. um But like literally it was just my feet just hurt so bad at it and the pain was so big that like
00:21:34
Speaker
that radiation was making to think it was my legs, but my legs were completely fine. So like every aid station, God bless my crew chief Liz, like she was massaging my feet. Like we were taking like the massage gun on it and rolling it out and everything like that. But yeah, that foot pain was gnarly, but like the legs were pretty like variable and everything like that too. um So I think like the worst part was definitely feet physically for sure. And I got blisters and things too. So like that just made it worse. But yeah, like your when your feet carry it 250 miles, it's gonna get a little dicey.
00:22:04
Speaker
Yeah, it sounds normal for a race that lasts over three days. So that's so who, who did you, um, convinced to, uh, to crew for you. And cause you got to bring people with you to take care of you. Right. When you're doing these things. So, oh, yeah. And I don't think you necessarily have to. So I think, I think it's done. So like Andrew glaze, I'm sure you're familiar with him. Like he's done this race four times every year. I think he's done it without a crew. Like he just doesn't sell supported. You can do that, but you can do it. Self-supported with drop bags. I even have an athlete who's doing big foot 200, uh, Myler next week. It's his first 200 miler. He's doing it all in drop bags. So it's totally possible to do it. It's hard.
00:22:40
Speaker
especially later in the race, like when you're like starting to get incoherent and like, you know, you, it's hard to make decisions for yourself. Um, so a crew definitely makes it easier, but I want to like also dispel the notion. It's definitely not a requirement. It's like, I know plenty of people have finished it without it. Um, but crew is great. And like, um, for me to, so, you know, I coach 40 athletes and like we have 60 athletes on the everyday ultra team across like three coaches, which is awesome. So actually like everybody who crude me were my athletes, which is super cool. So, oh Like I thought that was a cool experience because these were people who wanted to do a 200 mile race eventually. And I thought like for me, like even before I did coconut, I paced coconut on it for a hundred K I'd paste Sally McRae at Bigfoot and Moab and like, so
00:23:23
Speaker
I paced Sally for 100 miles at Bigfoot. I paced her for 70 miles at Moab. like i was like And I learned so much from that experience. And I thought, like how cool would it be to like bring my athletes in and like crew and like have them learn the experience? right and so And they did amazing, by the way. like They did so good. like They just nailed it. like They always like gave me exactly what I needed. They did freaking awesome, which was so cool. and I just felt like fulfilled because it was like, okay, like they got to learn so much from this, which is amazing. um and The cool thing is like my Pacers were like all some of my closest friends. like like All of my closest friends were like out there pacing. The coolest thing ever was um I had one of my best friends in the entire world. His name's Scott.
00:24:02
Speaker
ah He had never run more than a marathon before and never run an ultra. And he ran 37 miles with me out there through the night in one of my lowest sections. And it was just amazing. And I think that was the coolest thing was just getting to spend so many miles. I mean, from mile 77 to the end, I never not. I didn't, I never was alone. Like I always had paces where all my best friends and like I had seven paces. So I had like seven opportunities to make lifelong memories with some of my best friends on the trail.
00:24:30
Speaker
And like that was the coolest experience. So like if you're ever thinking about crew like ah or like pacers, like find the people that like bring you joy. Find the people that you trust. And then also too, like you know if if people want to learn or like they want to do 100 miles eventually, like have them crew for you because like they get to learn so much about it from seeing it from a sober point of view ah while you're like all jacked up and everything like that. and It's a cool
Overcoming Addiction and Personal Growth
00:24:53
Speaker
experience to have. But the crew was dialed and I could have not done that race as well as I did without my crew or pacers out there for sure. So good, man. That's awesome. I got, I i had the, the, I was pacing a buddy for, it was 40 K of a hundred miler, which he was injured at that point. So we walked it in. all Yeah, it happens. so I was like, not prepared, but you know, I, I used to run in marathons or whatever. So, but 40, 40 K walk was fine. And I think people underestimate like how much a walk can jack you up more than a run.
00:25:28
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And like the great conversations you have when they're all, when the athletes all loopy and you're, you're kind of fresh. Oh yeah. Films and Tom Cruise and it's all over the place. Yeah. So I like to bring it back to the beginning. I want to know, Joe, where, where you're from and where you're athletic as a kid. And does all this make sense now?
00:25:53
Speaker
Yeah. And you know, it's so interesting. You asked, like, was I athletic with the kid? And I think, like, you know, everybody sees, like, what I do now, like, 200 mile races, like, 100 mile races, like, all this stuff, like, coaching athletes. Dude, I was, like, the most unathletic kid, like, you could ever imagine. So, like, I was growing up, I was a typical kid who, like, my love was video games, man. Like, that's all I did. All I did was play video games growing up and everything like that, too.
00:26:17
Speaker
um And so I was always picked last for every single pickup game at gym, like all the time. I was always getting made fun of because of how coordinated it was. Like people would like literally throw footballs to me, like just so they can see how like I would flounder whenever I like tried to catch the ball. Like just because they thought it was funny. Like that's how bad it was. I did play golf in high school, but that's arguably a sport. And I can say that cause I play golf, but that was the only thing that I played like sports wise out there. So.
00:26:44
Speaker
not athletic at all growing up. And, um, you know, I think, I think at the time, like I'd always enjoyed sports. Like I would watch sports. Like I was a big sports fan as I kind of talked before, as you know, hockey fan, also football. Like I just loved like sports, but like I never saw myself as someone I could do that because I believe that like I was unathletic and that's who I was. And that's how I was born. And like, that's how I will always be. And that was the the mindset that I lived my life in. Um, and so much so that,
00:27:11
Speaker
It led me into a bad place with drug addiction and alcohol abuse because I truly believed that I was this person who wasn't capable, likable, sociable, like all this stuff that like really I wanted to be. I couldn't think that I could be that person unless I took drugs and alcohol and it ended up getting me you know addicted to Adderall and I was taking hard drugs and drinking a lot and blacking out a lot. And long story short, it ended up with me just completely like leaving my job on Wall Street. I had a relationship with a four four year amazing girlfriend who you know I was going to get married to and that blew up in my face. I moved back in with my parents and I remember like being in the room of like my childhood, ah month four my childhood room looking up at the ceiling and being like, I need to change something or else I'm going to die before I'm 30. I knew the thing I had to do was to get sober. and you know It was interesting. like you know I literally typed in like how to get sober online. and um The first thing it said was just exercise and move your body. and like That way you can like get your brain regulated. I said, all right. well
00:28:14
Speaker
I can just go run and just see how it happens. And then of course I get the things like, you're not a runner and you're not nothing. And I was like, well, I need to do this. So let me just figure it out. And I remember putting on the shoes for a run the first time right outside my door. I was super stoked. I made it like a quarter ofm mile before I threw up everywhere. And I was just in so much pain.
00:28:31
Speaker
And but it was interesting because like you know in the moment um i knew that i was like wow i said i was in runner but i made it a quarter a mile like the longest i've gone in a while like i think this is something that i can do. And you know i started also listening to books and you know self help and like all the stuff in the time and the whole really notion not just through that run but everything else is that you you know who you are it does not define who you're gonna be for the rest of your life.
00:28:56
Speaker
ah who you are in terms of the traits, the qualities, the skill sets, that's not fixed. like You can always learn to be whoever you wanted to be. So for me as a kid saying I was unathletic and that's how I was gonna be, I was BS. I can learn to be athletic. This person that I wanted to be that I was on drugs and alcohol, like I could be that person without the drug and alcohol because I can learn to do it. And that's when I really adopted this whole like mindset of like you can be whoever you wanna be as long as you're willing to put in the work and learn along the way.
00:29:25
Speaker
and's I made the decision through this process that I was going to do whatever it takes to become the person that I wanted to be, not just like be a runner, not just like, you know, do these marathons or that was never the goal. The goal was just to be a better person and to get sober and be the person I wanted to be. And um running helped me to show me that I could do that. And so, you know, as I continue to progress in the running, I did a 5K. which I couldn't even walk the next day on by the way. So like people like seeing me doing all these races, I couldn't even walk after my first 5K, but I did 5K, 10K, half marathon, marathon, eventually my first 50K and all on the process also ended up getting sober. And, you know, I've been, you know, um almost six years sober since then I'll be in November, which would be great.
00:30:06
Speaker
And um yeah, man. And I think ah so all that being said, like where it comes into the athletic journey, I've always seen it as like a way to like be the best version of myself. And because when you go through these races that are really hard and they require so much of you and they put you through these challenges, like they require you to level up in some way, shape or form. And I've always taken the lessons in that and applied it to my life. So like for me, like, yeah, but I want to compete to be great. I want to like be as the, I want to compete out there. I want to do well.
00:30:36
Speaker
But it's not for the accolades. And by the way, it's not even just for me anymore. Like now, like my big why is like hoping to inspire people to say, hey, here's a kid who is messed up, who was on drugs, who like never played sports in high school and college. If this guy can go out and do these races, I can do the things that I set out to do. Because what inspired me was seeing people like for me, Tony Robbins, like seem to go from like overweight and broke and beaten as a kid to you know multi-millionaire like everything like that too not saying money's the answer but the transformation story i would you know read books on like oprah winfrey and like all these people have like just these crappy backgrounds worse than i did just transform their life and like you know not saying you have to follow those things but it was that was like a sign of hope for me so like for me i really hope that what i'm doing can help that person who thinks that they can't do the thing they want to do
00:31:25
Speaker
to know that they're, if they put in the work and they're willing to learn, they can accomplish whatever they want, whether it's a hundred miles, whether it's starting a business, whether it's, you know, um, going out and finding that relationship they want. Like that's why I do what I do to inspire other people to do the things that maybe they think they could never do. Hmm. Yeah. That's heavy, man. That's a big, all the power to you. That's amazing that you were able to turn it around. Like, did you, did you do it?
00:31:53
Speaker
Would you say you were able to do it on your own? Like you said you read and stuff like that, or did you have anybody to kind of like pull you out of there, wake you up, you know, or was it really like something that. They were just like, one day you were just hit rock bottom. You're like, I need to make a change. Like I always find this, this like transition period interesting. Like when, like when you're addicted, it's hard to come out of addiction and how hard, cause you're addicted, you know, you need to drink, you need to do the drugs and stuff like that.
00:32:21
Speaker
but to learn and then like, how do you find this ability to learn and and to grow in that positive direction? you know Like, did you have anybody to kind of like guide you through that or was it all intrinsic?
00:32:33
Speaker
I think it started intrinsically. and like this is It's a very interesting thing, um even as a coach now, like and I help people like running, right? It's like running is a whole... Of course, it can be like the tool for life, but like I always say with people with coaching, right like if you if you were to like work with someone who came to you and they wanted to change versus someone who you're like, hey like would you like to be coach? And they're like, yeah, sure, like whatever. I guarantee you the person that wanted to make that change is going to perform better. They're going to do the workouts more. They're going to like be more open to the experience and everything like that. And I think like a principle all along the way is like, you know, you won't change unless you want it for yourself. And so in that moment, like to answer your question, like where I was like on the floor of my childhood room, looking up in the ceiling, that level of pain that I had had in my life, I'd never faced that before. Like everything just felt like crumbling. Everything just felt like it was wrong. And like,
00:33:22
Speaker
You know, it's so interesting because at the time, all I did was like point the finger. Oh, like you know my parents put me on Adderall when I was a kid, so they got it here. Oh, like this job like you know didn't pay me what I was worth, so like screw them. or like Oh, like my girlfriend dumped me? like Yeah, like that's on her. And then you realize at some point that there's a common denominator to all the crappy things in your life, it's you. And it's a painful thing to do. I mean, like I even get like even just like that feeling in my stomach just saying it now. But here's the thing, it's like when you hit that pain and you realize that you're the problem,
00:33:52
Speaker
There's also a freeing thought that says, well, if I'm the problem, I'm also the solution. And so at that moment, like the pain was just so deep, the self pain, that I had to change. At some point, like if you like think about like a lot of people who make these changes, it's not because someone told them to for the most part, it's because they've hit this level of pain that they just can't take it anymore. And for me, I was at that pain and I just didn't want it anymore and I wanted to run the way because in our lives, like the the biggest two forces are moving away from pain and going towards pleasure.
00:34:20
Speaker
And you're always going to run faster away from pain than you are. You're going to go towards pleasure. And for addiction, like the reason why you take drugs is to not just gain pleasure, but to avoid the pain of the sober reality. And I always say, like when the pain of your current reality is way greater than the pleasure that you're getting from the drugs, that's where you're going to change. And at that moment, that's where I was at. Now, to your point of like who helped me along the way. so i mean i i't I don't really have mor but much money. I blued all on drugs and alcohol and things like that, too. so What I did was i just like I read a ton of Tony Robbins books and listened to Tony Robbins. and I know some people have like their opinions about him, but like he was like my indirect mentor at the time. like i mean like I listened to him every single frickin' day. I read his books. like I studied his stuff. I even like took all the money in my bank account and I actually like went to one of his seminars. It's interesting. like and I'm not saying this is just to promote Tony. but like
00:35:11
Speaker
i went to the seminar and like a lot of people like why would you pay the money to go there while tell you why because literally the day after was the first day i was sober and i haven't gone back since so i'm.
00:35:22
Speaker
that investment was worth it to me. And I think, and my point isn't, go listen to Tony Robbins, that's not my point. My point is this, my point is like, when you find indirect mentors who really resonate with you, and it can teach you the thing that you want to do, or a direct mentor, even better, but like, you know, Tony Robbins says he charges like a million dollars for like a coaching session. I did not have that at the time, so I had to settle for the books. But like, get a coach, get an indirect mentor, listen to podcasts, like find someone who resonates with us, and dive deep into that, and that can be the person. It doesn't have to be someone I think it's best if you have like a mentor that you can talk with and have those personalized conversations, but I think in the age of information, i mean you can you can get mentored by some of the best minds athletes in the sport without even paying a dime nowadays. right like The cost is listening to an advertisement, maybe mid-role in an ad right for a podcast, but all that being said, like find those people, dive into their world, and then, um yeah, I truly think like that's the way to to get to wherever you want to be quicker, is just learning from people who can be those mentors for you.
00:36:20
Speaker
And what what do you remember what it was in his message that really clicked with you? Like, why him? Yeah, I think the biggest thing was like, I mean, it was kind of like what I was saying before. And he starts, ah the book that I read was, um it was unlimited power. That was like the first book I read. And I, dude, I remember picking up that book and it in by the way, like I know, like I'd sound like a big Tony Robbins guy. I just picked the book because like, I was like, eh, he's like a self-help guy. Like, I don't know. Like, let me just see if this will work. I was literally just throwing stuff at the wall and seeing the stick. It's like a 500 page book. I remember buying a Barnes and Noble just off of the Hail Mary, just to see what's up. I read that whole book in one sitting.
00:36:57
Speaker
And, and the reason why I did, to go back to your question, what resonated with me is like the first like chapter of the book, he talks about how he like literally was in a place where, you know, he was in like this deadbeat apartment, dead broke, overweight, like lonely, like he was like a piece of crap, like just like in a really bad situation. And then it pans to like him, like in a helicopter, seeing like traffic cars,
00:37:22
Speaker
ah like all these like traffic and they were all like backing up the freeway because they were all going to his seminar and he's like there with his wife and stuff like that and like in my head i was like like what because i you know what i'd believe at the time i'd believe that these guys like are so special because they're so smart and like they're born in good like that was like my thing i and it seems stupid but like i'd never like seen that kind of rags to riches stories and like i'll be honest too like I mean, I grew up in a pretty affluent community. like I did. like i did like i was and I will say this. I didn't have like a bad childhood. i didn't have like i was I was very, very privileged growing up, and I'm very, very blessed for that. and like I do not take that lightly too, but like I always saw it of like, oh, I was born into this situation, so like you know here it is. right and that's what i thought That's how I thought life was. and Then I saw this guy like created himself in that. and My whole point of like what I saw there is like literally
00:38:11
Speaker
Like you can become whoever you want to become. Like that's the big thing. Like you have that in you to change your brain, to change your beliefs, to change your operating system, change your actions. Like it starts with just changing the way that you look at things and like really going from like a fixed mindset like I had before of like, this is who I am and I can't get better. So like, this is who I want to be. And here are the steps I can do to get there. Like that was like the big thing for me. So like,
00:38:37
Speaker
Tony had this whole process where he recreated himself. That was the thing that resonated with me. He was the first example to me of someone who went from even deeper in the lower hole than I was to this super successful dude. When I say successful, I mean fulfilled. I think that's the crux of life. I don't think the crux of life is finishing ultra marathons or even getting married or anything like that or making a bunch of money. I think the crux of life is like, are you fulfilled? Or in other words, do you feel great about yourself even when you're by yourself? That's it, man. That's all it is. For him, and listen, I've never spoken with a guy I don't know, but from my perception, he seemed like he was very fulfilled in his life and that's what I wanted. He showed me that and that's what resonated with me so deeply.
00:39:26
Speaker
Now, like reading your last name, i like you you come from Italian background also. Yep. Like me. Yeah. you know I'm assuming the same with you, right? Yeah. yeah my plaanno brother So I'm curious about this because like, you know, like, okay, I didn't have like the did the addiction and stuff like that, but we all had our problems, like growing up as kids or whatever, but my parents took it really hard, like certain things that I had done or, you know, they, and then they think it's like their fault in some capacity and they have this guilt that and So how did like how did that affect, did they know everything that was happening with you and how did they react to that coming from an Italian background? Yeah. you know i it was It was really kind of crappy. i mean i
00:40:08
Speaker
like so My father, like we had always been like super best friends. He was my best friend like for my entire life. And and by the way, he like recently unexpectedly passed away like in December out of nowhere. And that was you know it was hard because he was like my best friend growing up. And like he was always there for me and everything like that too.
00:40:27
Speaker
My mom, I mean, she's very, oh, thank you. Appreciate it. ah My mom, very tough Italian woman. ah You know, she's a hundred percent Italian, like grandmothers, like this typical Italian grandmother and everything too. And my parents were great. Like they did an awesome job raising me and I don't blame anything on them too. um But at the time when I was first like really messed up, I wrongly, I think held a lot of resentment. um And mostly honestly, like if I'm just being just totally transparent here like towards my mom because like I mean I love my dad he was like super kind not saying my mom wasn't but she was very tough you know she's a very tough person and you know very expected a lot out of me and everything like that and you know I had you know I think subconsciously put resentment towards that.
00:41:10
Speaker
And I didn't really open up to my parents that much, mostly because I didn't want my dad to be ashamed of the person I was. And I also just didn't have the best relationship with my mother at the time. And because of that, I don't think they really knew. like I never really explained all these things. I never really talked to them about and And quite frankly, I didn't talk to a lot of people about like what I was going through at the time. And um I really just kept it all inside of me and stuff like that. And yeah, I think like when i things first started to come out, like yeah, my parents like did feel like they were like you know upset because they they felt like they had something to do with it. And I told you, like I think for the first, you know few honestly, a few years, like I did help hold that thing in. um But I do remember this one moment and like really where I worked myself a lot. So I grew up in New York, um just north of the city.
00:41:55
Speaker
um I actually moved out to Appleton, Wisconsin for like a year and a half. like you know Small town, super cold. like And all I did, dude, was like work on myself for like a year and a half. I worked, obviously, and made money and stuff like that. But like but my biggest thing was like i just I want to move to somewhere remote and like somewhere where I can like just work on myself. And um I worked on myself. And I remember like at that moment, like I had forgiven like my parents for everything and knew that like it wasn't their fault and it was my fault.
00:42:25
Speaker
And like honestly, du the biggest change in my life like came from like taking full responsibility for everything, like full accountability. It's like, I'm the one who made the decisions. I'm the one who liked did all these things. I'm the one who had all this, too. And some people might listen to this and be like, well, like but my mom treated me like this, so like X, Y, and Z. It's like, yeah, they might've treated you like this, but guess what? like All this like trauma, all these beliefs, like all this thing that you developed, that's your responsibility now. So if you don't take care of that, that is your fault.
00:42:51
Speaker
So, and it sounds like like that word fault, like it's like, Oh my gosh, like Joe sounded rough right now, but it's like, you know, it's true. Like, and and I said before, if everything is your fault, that means you have control over making the solution too. So like, I don't say like, don't focus on like it being used as a problem, focus on that means you're the solution.
Impact on Life and Entrepreneurship
00:43:10
Speaker
And that was a big thing for me. So that was kind of like the dynamic with my family and stuff. And, you know, when my father passed, which was amazing. I mean, it's amazing to be in a position, obviously not where your father passes away, but like I've been very fortunate that like I had never had things of like, oh, I wish I had, you know, turned back this stone or I wish I had made amends. Like I never had that with my dad. And like it's as sad as the situation is, as like awful as it is, like,
00:43:37
Speaker
there's a piece on that and I'm so glad that I did because I think some people do resent their parents for like the things that it is. And um and I pretty much almost anyone I know does that who has a parent pass away always will have that guilt and that regret. um And I'm very, very fortunate that I don't feel that way at all about my father after he's not being here. Well, it's it important that you recognize that and like you took your own responsibility, you know, and I'm sure that like you didn't want to like disappoint them either in that process too. And, um, yeah, I'm happy that like you were able to, you know, get all that out and, and, and you, you're like at peace with, with that at least, you know? Um, and he came out on the other side and that's like, I think when your kids go through something, they just want to see you be okay, you know, at the end of it. And like, that's,
00:44:34
Speaker
Like always the thing, like with my parents, they just like want you to be okay. And that's everything, you know, it's all they care about. Like, especially coming from an immigrant family or wherever whatever, like, it's, uh, even like, even me, like growing up privileged and stuff like that, like they just want you to make it. well They just want good things for their children, you know? So, um, yeah you know, it's, it's clear that it's affected you positively, like,
00:45:03
Speaker
like after the fact and and athletically for sure. What other aspects of your life has, has maybe the journey down endurance sports impacted also? Yeah, a hundred percent. And you know, it kind of relates to kind of what you were saying even just earlier, like about like your parents wanting you to be good. So like, I think, you know, everybody knows me as the running guy, like I'm the running guy, like it's unknown for and everything like that too. But dude, I also just as much as um running,
00:45:27
Speaker
I love business, man. I'm a nerd about it. I love it. like I love the whole idea. I've always wanted to be an entrepreneur. Always. like that was like i've've I've had that since I was like a kid, man. like There was something just about that that just seemed like so cool and fun to me. like Even when I was like in my messed up years, like I wanted to be an entrepreneur too. ah you know i did work on wall street so i like i wanted to be a hedge fund manager at one point and then like at one point i wanted to like have like my own like movie review website like there's a bunch of ideas like i want to be a life coach at one point which is ridiculous because i was 23 and who the hell is going to hire a 23 year old life coach but anyways um all that being said like i've always wanted to run a business and it was interesting like you mentioned like you know parents just want the best for you like
00:46:06
Speaker
My mom, like God bless her soul, like anytime I'd say I'd run over on a business, she'd be like, well, you need like health insurance and you need something stable and like, you know, like, you know, all that kind of stuff as well. So like, I mean, I battled on that. Like, and that was another reason why I didn't get along with her particularly because because like, I was like, I, you don't support what I want to do and everything like that too. And, um, you know, I think.
00:46:25
Speaker
and And at the time, like you know there were when I was going through the dark period, like I didn't think that I have what it takes to handle entrepreneurship. Because a lot of people see entrepreneurship, and they think like, oh, like you can be your own boss. And like you can do that. Yes, there's a point you can get eventually to like having this like fully free and flexible schedule. But for the most part, like when you're just starting up an entrepreneurship, like you are you do not have like a fully flexible schedule. like You have to work. you have athletes, in my case that is, but you know you have clients, customers. um like I have two coaches on my team that like I have to be there and support and everything. like there's There's a lot of work that goes into it. and There's also a lot of challenges, a lot of like unexpected things along the way. and I truly believe that you need to be very resilient to be an entrepreneur. like I think that's a very underrated trait about entrepreneurs. like
00:47:13
Speaker
They're just incredibly resilient because like i think I think the hardest ultra of all time is running a business. I really do think so. and um There's just so many obstacles and challenges. and I truly believe that like you know being in these ultra marathons where like you have this plan that's like all laid out and you have, like, when you're gonna get to the aid station, you have, like, the nutrition that you're gonna get to, but then all of a sudden, you you know, you get a blister or there's a rain cloud that comes in and washes out the trail and now you're moving slower, maybe that, like, type of nutrition you were gonna have doesn't sound so good for, like, whatever random reason, like, there's always crap that happens in the middle of these things that never go to plan. And I always say, like, it doesn't matter about those things, it matters how you respond to those things. And the same goes true with business, right? Like, business, like, a lot of times, like, people say, like, oh, I should write a business plan or I should, like,
00:47:58
Speaker
you know plan out my next things i would say like screw that like you know i don't think you should write a plan because it's just gonna change anyways now i'm not saying be reckless and just do whatever but like The point is this, is' like you know the best plan is the plan to pivot when you need to pivot. That's the best. And and I think like taking that from ultra marathons has allowed me to be a better entrepreneur. It's allowed me to be a better coach. like i do I'm a full-time coach now. Every day ultra is like my thing now. like i I run the coaching. I run the podcast. like you know that's That's what I do. And I truly believe that I wouldn't be able to have built it as successful, not because of the skills I've learned from running, but just like
00:48:36
Speaker
You know, that, that importance of being able to pivot when things get crazy, that importance of being able to dig deep when it gets hard because building a business is hard. Um, that importance of, you know, I think emotionally controlling yourself. That's a very, very important part of business too, because you know, there's some days that are just really, really hard, but like you gotta like, you know, show up and, and, and, and do the task like you have to, like you, you can't. always be, I'm not saying like drown your feelings away, but like there's sometimes where discipline has to override how you feel in the moment, right? And especially with business. And so I think that has been the biggest kind of translation into my life, like where I've seen it. And I don't think I would have been able to build everyday ultra if I didn't actually run the ultras, which is great because I help people run ultra. So it's kind of like this like flywheel that just like, uh, you know, spins in, in such a beautiful way.
Coaching Business and Principles
00:49:24
Speaker
Did the coaching come first or the podcasts or was it, uh,
00:49:28
Speaker
all together at once or podcast came first. So I did the podcast for like three years first and then I had launched the coaching. Um, well, so I, I had basically taken on athletes as like a test because, um, a lot of people were asking me over coaching and at first I was like, nah, nah, nah. Like, you know, I don't coach, I don't coach. And then, and you know, when a lot of people ask for something, then it's like, Oh, like maybe there is something here.
00:49:49
Speaker
So I like coached athletes just like on the ah in private for like three months. I took three athletes on for three months just to like get, see what it was like, see if I liked it, see if I was good at it. And lo and behold, like, I mean, one of the athletes, like one, one of his 50 milers, the other athlete like hit a half marathon PR he'd been trying to get for years. I was like, all right, I think there's something I could do. Launched officially in October of last year. And then as of now, 40 athletes, 60 athletes on the team total, two other coaches, so three coaches total. And we have like a, like, you know, just so many people in the community, which is awesome. So it's been, it's been blessed, but I built the podcast first. And, um, there was never an intention to build a business out of the podcast. Again, it was just curiosity, but like,
00:50:31
Speaker
I think that's a good thing for it. For me, I'd always wanted to try and be an entrepreneur and I'd always try to like launch a product and like launch a service. But the problem was I had no one, no audience. Like there's, there's no one to give the service to or to provide the service to. But now you have this podcast, like where you have like thousands and thousands of listeners and it's like, Oh, like, and I was like, yeah, like I filled up my coaching master on like two podcast mentions. I still don't even have a website. And so like, and and I'm not saying that to brag, but I'm saying that like,
00:50:59
Speaker
And I don't know if it's the scope of this podcast, but like if you want to be like an entrepreneur, like if you want to like build a business, like build an audience first. like You want to build an audience first, then build the business. And like usually people go vice versa. They try to build the business first and then the audience. But I think like if you don't have like people who want your product or people who like you know are are loyal and and want to be like are fans of you, it's going to be much harder of a push to get those customers.
00:51:26
Speaker
That's true. Yeah, that's true. of it Well, you know, people tune in, they listen, they trust you. You know, there's a relationship that's building, even though you don't always hear from them. And that's like, that's why I love hearing from people when they do chime in or send me and but a DM on Instagram or whatever it is. Cause like, I'm putting this out and I can see the numbers of people listening, but I don't actually know what they think or like getting that engagement. So having the, you know, the coaching,
00:51:56
Speaker
puts a real face in front of you too, that they're part of that community. And then you can help them achieve their goals, you know, what you're trying to do through the podcast, but also through plans and stuff like that too. So I think that's, that's awesome that you're doing that. And and very interesting. I'm also coaching a few athletes. So I like that idea, you know? Yeah. Yeah. It's fun. It's fun to kind of share your knowledge with people that don't have it, you know? And, and like, I learned from people like, like you did and,
00:52:23
Speaker
It's good to share that with others and help them to achieve their their own stuff too. Oh, for sure. And I think the best thing is, like I think the thing that I've learned the most about coaching, I get so much more excited when I see an athlete hit their first 100 miler, hit a PR way more excited and fulfilled than any accomplishment I've ever gotten in my life. like Some of like the happiest moments of me like in this endurance world has been seeing just the athletes that I'm coaching go out and just do amazing things and hit their goals. Like there's, that does not even scrape the ah scrape, like even just in proximity to like how I feel when I cross the finish line.
00:53:03
Speaker
Um, it is, it is, uh, it is just an unreal experience. And like, I mean, even so like this weekend, I have an athlete racing his first a hundred miler. I have like few athletes racing and stuff. Like it's just, I get so pumped. Like I get so pumped for it and just pumped for them. And you see the journey of like them going from starting to like building up to like going, it's just, it's such a cool, cause I, I, I remember like how, you know, impactful even when I first got a coach, like.
00:53:27
Speaker
I mean, the impact that he had on my life was just unbelievable with running and everything like that too. And like, um it's just, it's so cool to like now recreate that experience for like 40 athletes, which is just amazing. What do you think makes a good coach?
00:53:40
Speaker
I think the best thing that makes a good coach is number one, they listen um and they, they, they listen to you. And when I say listen, it's not just like sitting there and like listen to the person do it, but like they take action based on the inputs that they're given. And I think bad coaches will just give you a cookie cutter plan and just be like, this is how it is. Good coaches will say, here are the principles and here's how I would modify it to you based on your goals and where you're at and your needs as well.
00:54:07
Speaker
So I think a personalized approach is what makes a good coach because knowing, like if you give someone a cookie cutter approach, they're gonna be like, well, why don't I just read a fricking book on this, right? Like, whereas like you really like, you listen to them or what they need and you give it to them and like that in the most personalized way, I think that's number one. Number two is you build a good relationship with them. Like for me, like I have hour calls with all my athletes. Like the reason why I do that is because you can get a lot, you can get done in 30 minutes, but the thing is I like to say like, hey, how are you doing? Like how are,
00:54:35
Speaker
Like, man, I know you went to that concert. Like, how was that concert? Like, I want to build relationships with my athletes because I truly believe that, like, if you get to know the athlete beyond just who they are as a runner, you get to know them more. And also to like, you just build these awesome relationships with people who like.
00:54:50
Speaker
you know some of my athletes, I consider friends now, which is like amazing. And like I love that. And so I think the second thing is like the human element. And then I think the third thing is um they care about the results just as much as you do. they'll never probably like and I think the athlete will always care more about the results, not because the coach is like disinterested or anything, but like you know obviously the coach like wants it. But you need to have a coach that wants that result just as bad as you do. And I think that is going to be the biggest thing because like they're going to be invested in it. They're going to be emotionally You know, tied into it and they're going to like work hard to make sure you have the best plan ever because, uh, you know, I learned this, I heard this from Jason Coop, who's like, you know, for me, like one of my big role models in the coaching space, he's a great coach. Um, but he said like, it's such a, it's such a privilege and an honor to like be working with someone.
00:55:38
Speaker
who you are telling them how to spend their time. like You are literally writing on their schedule like how they're going to spend an hour, two hours, sometimes even up to seven hours of what they're doing with their life. and like that it's like you like The responsibility that you have on that is big, so like don't mess it up and you better care. and so like that's like i you know I want it for my athletes like i and I want it and that's I think that's like the third biggest thing is like they want it just as bad as the athlete
Training Improvements and Consistency
00:56:05
Speaker
wants it.
00:56:05
Speaker
So good. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, you got to be well, you you know, you got to be rooting for them, you know, like, you don't see these sports coaches like they they want it for their athletes just as much as you know, it's a win for you. It's a win for them. It's like, it's this, it's is it's the the sign of growth in this relationship that's commitment from the two of you to achieve something and executing it on the day is is always like the cherry on top, right? so Where did you see the... Because I know you progressed you know from the shorter stuff than to where you are today. Where did you see the greatest improvement in in your own athletic ability, would you say?
00:56:40
Speaker
Yeah, so I think a few different areas. I think the first thing is prioritization of um recovery. um Because when I first did it, like i would I would run to the points like where I would like have to like cut out on sleep consistently, and then I would have to like you know be a little bit more beat up or like I i i mean when I did my first 50k and even first 50 miler I just like you know followed a training plan and just kind of wonk it and like I finished both of them but like I mean they were like mediocre results like in my opinion um grant I'm granted it was my first time doing these races but like I did not execute them great um but like I would basically just like have random runs and things like that and like I would cut back on sleep and like it would just be not good and I think
00:57:23
Speaker
It was when I started to learn how like physiological adaptation works. like You need two sides of the coin for physiological adaptation. You need stress and you need rest. Stress is obviously, you get out and get the miles in, you get the work in, you get the vert in, you get the time on feet in. That's what you do. But just like a muscle, right so a muscle, when you lift weights, what are you doing? You're tearing the muscle.
00:57:42
Speaker
And it's now the muscles weaker, but where it gets stronger is when you rest it and it rebuilds itself with that new muscle tissue and it gets stronger. That's where it gets rebuilt. I didn't realize that endurance is very much the same way. Like you need a balance of rest and everything. So for me, it was more optimization around like, okay, like. you're gonna do your hard run today and then easy run tomorrow you're going to have this amount of volume in the week but you're not gonna go over that because if you do that then you're gonna skip on sleep and that's gonna hinder recovery so it's getting much more smart with my programming and how it fit in with my sleep schedule work schedule everything like that so i wasn't pushing i think the biggest mistake a lot of endurance athletes make including myself is like you see guys like and i'm not saying they're bad i love them but like david goggins and like
00:58:25
Speaker
campaigns like these guys who are like you know hammer at all costs and like they think that like sleep is for the week and like everything like that too and I just completely disagree with that like and I i you know fell into that thing and so for me it was getting more smarter on like shaping my workouts around recovery. The second thing was where I really see saw a lot of big increases was like adding speed work into ultra running training.
00:58:46
Speaker
When I remember like the first time someone said speed work, I was like, what? like I have to go for 50 miles like slow. like Why the hell do I have to do like these VO2 max like intervals that are like short sprints? like Why the hell do I have to do that? But when you look at the physiology behind it, like if you increase your VO2 max, if you increase your lactate threshold, which are basically two two things that can, VO2 max allows you to get fitter in terms of like how much oxygen you can produce efficiently, and then lactate threshold allows your body to take lactate that goes up into your muscles and produce it into energy. If you tap into those things, that also helps you to go longer periods of time because you're fitter and your body's able to process energy a lot differently. And so like for me, like I remember like, I think my like average like easy pace was like,
00:59:32
Speaker
1030 and then I did like a whole speed block for like six months and then like my easy pace was like 815. It was like insane. I was like, what the heck? Like it would just blew my mind. And so like, I think speed work and ultra marathons, if your body can handle it um and if you're listening right now, if you have history with injuries or if you've never done speed work before, don't just launch into it. You got to make sure that you're doing it safely.
00:59:54
Speaker
um I worked with a coach when I first did speed work and we did it safely as well. So that's the second thing. And I think the third thing, like the biggest thing in training too, is also just like more volume, like. You got to be running more to get more. And like, I think for my 50 miler, like my schedule was like, I would do. Four miles, like three days a week. And then I would just do like a massive long run on the weekend. Um, and then like, when I went to training with a coach, it was more like shorter runs, but more frequently throughout the week. And then the long run wasn't this like massive long run as well. Um, so I was getting in more volume, but I was doing it more consistently. And that's the other thing too, is like consistent.
01:00:28
Speaker
volume increases. like That's going to be like the big thing too. So I was just doing more volume. And even now, like um' this current training block I have, I'm training for javelin 100, I'm trying to get the most volume that I've ever done in my entire life, even more for the 250 mile race. Because like I truly believe like if you can handle the volume without dipping it on sleep, um you're going to be in a pretty pretty damn good spot to to be durable for the race. And what does that entail? like what What is your your mileage like for this type of event?
01:00:56
Speaker
Yeah. So I guess like the past like few, so, so I've done this, but this has been my third time at this race. Um, and so for the year one, I mean, I was hitting anywhere between like seven or was I sitting between like, uh, 80 to 95 miles a week. I had like a, I think one, a hundred mile a week on the first year. Last year was a little different. It was like high seventies to like, uh, mid eighties. And I, um, that I.
01:01:21
Speaker
I had like a lot more stressful of a work schedule. So I couldn't train as much as I could. And I had a hypothesis like maybe like the lower volume here might work. Um, and it, it didn't work. I just didn't think it it was a failed hypothesis. And then, so this year, now that I have a little bit more control over my schedule, just, you know, cause at the time I was working at a startup where, you you know, that was super, super busy, but now, you know, I'm kind of having my own digs. It can be a little flexible in my schedule. Um, now I'm trying to get to like anywhere between like,
01:01:50
Speaker
95 to 130 mile weeks and like really just getting that in just because the big thing that has kind of hit me hard over the past few years is that like by mile like a certain point like I would just feel the legs wouldn't feel as great as I would want them to be and I think the more volume you put in the more durable your muscles get and so that's that's my my theory going into this training block that sounds about right to me I mean it's a It's not one size fits all, but you know, it makes sense ah in terms of the numbers. So what would you say that and the biggest lesson that endurance sports has taught you? I think the biggest lesson is like consistency is king. Like that, that's the biggest thing. And and that's not even just with running. That's with life, man. Like consistency is king. Like you want to get better at running, like, like be consistent with the training. You want to get, you want to build a business, like do something that's going to like build it every day. Like you want to like show up in your relationship, like be consistent how you show up in your relationship every day. It's like,
01:02:47
Speaker
That's like the big thing because what I even see, even just work with 40 athletes, and I always ask myself, like what makes the most successful athlete? It's the ones who are showing up and doing the work. Now that doesn't necessarily mean you have to run every day. That means if you have a rest day, be consistent with the rest day. That means if you have a speed workout, be consistent with how you show up in that speed workout, right? But I think if you just continue to show up, it's great. And also too, that means if you have an hour run, but maybe like the kids got sick and you don't have like a pocket of window, like are you either gonna switch your rest day to that day and get it in another day, or are you gonna maybe get in 30 minutes today and extra 30 minutes tomorrow, it's like, are you staying consistent with that plan? It's making those small deposits every day, right? I think like you know someone said like you know ah a penny, if you double a penny every day for like three days, like that's going to be like what, six pennies, but you double that penny like every day for like like months and months and months, like it's going to add up to over a million dollars or something like that. The same goes true with your fitness. so like Yeah, you're going to run one day, you're not going to see
Balancing Life and Training
01:03:43
Speaker
progress the next day. You're going to run that second day, you're not going to see progress the next day. But if you keep running and stay consistent to the plan, like you're making those daily deposits, they're going to stack up to when you go in for a year from now, you're going to be an absolute monster. So like, I think the consistency is key and anyone who's ah like inconsistent misses workouts. And then listen, life happens. I'm not the kind of person, again, that's getting into all costs.
01:04:03
Speaker
But like I think when you go into a training block, you have to like understand and be like, okay, is this something that like I can commit to right now? like Is this something that I can genuinely do? If the answer is no, that's totally okay. like i'm It's fine. like I'm a big fan of like having seasons and being like priority. like i'm very much like I believe that you shouldn't throw out your life to train for an ultra. like you You have a life. um But you when you do sign up for an ultra, you have to make the conscious decision to be like, this is going to be something that I can show up for. like You have to like know that. and so I think like that's a decision to stay consistent. and I'll even tell you this, like Justin, like this week has been one of the craziest weeks of my life in terms of just like family stuff coming up and everything like that. and like We've just had a bunch of stuff like random stuff happen in our house that we had to like take care of and things like that. and This was like my first week of training for the block. and like I've had to like really fight to get it in, but like we're getting it in. and so Even if that means you have the morning workout plan, but instead you got to schlep to the gym at 7 a.m. to hit the treadmill for a tempo workout.
01:05:00
Speaker
like You got to get it done. you know So I think that's the biggest lesson for sure.
Podcast Conclusion and Contact Information
01:05:05
Speaker
So cool. Well, I mean, thanks for sharing that. That's amazing. And thanks for making time for me and squeezing this this this podcast in. Where can people find out more about you and your podcast and everything that you're doing?
01:05:17
Speaker
well Justin, thanks for having me, man. Dude, and I appreciate the the conversation, the questions. You're a great listener, great host. like This was awesome, man. so Seriously, thank you for being a great host and having me on the show. Yeah, man. Every Day Ultra, you can find wherever you listen to podcasts. We're on Apple, Spotify, Google, whole nine yards from there. um I'm mostly active on Instagram, so just Joe Corsione on Instagram. and Then if you're ever interested in you know potentially working with me or one of my coaches, you can go to You just send an email to everdalejapodcast.gmail dot.com and just say you're interested. And then, yeah, I would love to chat. But yeah, thanks so much for having me again, man. This is really special. Yeah, I appreciate you, Joe. Thank you so much. Of course, dude. Appreciate you.
01:05:56
Speaker
Thanks for tuning in to the Justin Stride Podcast. I truly appreciate you taking the time to listen and I hope you enjoyed that conversation as much as I did. Please take a minute after this to rate and review our show on Apple Podcasts. With your feedback, we'll be able to make the show even better and it'll help us reach new listeners too. You can also find us on Instagram at JustinStridePod for all the latest episodes and updates.
01:06:20
Speaker
Of course, this show wouldn't be possible without a solid team behind me. With logo and design by Vanessa Pugliese, as well as audio, music, and editing by Forest McKay, a huge thank you goes out to both of them. Guest outreach, social media, writing, and advertising are handled by me, your host, Justin Pugliese. Finally, we'd like to thank you, our listeners, for coming along for the ride with Justin Strad.