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Fear Street Trilogy (2021) dir. Leigh Janiak
17 Plays2 years ago
In a first, we explore a movie trilogy available on Netflix called Fear Street. I’m joined my multi-hyphenated artists, Veronica Beatrice, who brings her film and myth study experience to explore this film series that takes us on a horror mystery rollercoaster from 1994 to 1666.
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Transcript
Iconic Hollywood Quotes and Advice
00:00:00
Speaker
to all the ladies I am big it's the pictures that got small
00:00:14
Speaker
All this way for my advice, I feel like Oprah. Person your seat belts. It's going to be a bumpy night.
Creating Your Own Hollywood
00:00:24
Speaker
What the hell? I'm not going to worry about if people accept me or not. I'm going to make Hollywood wherever I am at. Ah, as if. There was a time when things were good and shady side.
Mysterious Events and Rivalries
00:00:41
Speaker
But now, that's all gone. Hello? You're still alive. Who is this? It's happening again.
00:01:08
Speaker
Tonight is Sunnyvale for Shadyside. Red versus blue. Good versus evil.
Shadyside's Horror Legacy
00:01:15
Speaker
Recomensicate! Are you okay?
00:01:31
Speaker
I was 1978, 5,937 days ago. Shadyside, a history of horror has earned it the nickname Killer Capital USA. What's happening to us? These massacres happened at Shadyside over and over. You were the only person who survived.
Returning to 1666
00:01:55
Speaker
How do we end this? We have to go back to where it all started.
00:02:01
Speaker
1666.
Introduction to Screen Queen Podcast
00:02:03
Speaker
Happy Women's History Month, everybody! Yes, it is March 1st. This is the Screen Queen, where we discuss the selection of movies directed by women from the silent film era all the way to the modern releases. I am your host, Tapia Ley to Adibo. Today on the Screen Queen, we will be talking about not one
00:02:22
Speaker
movie. Not even two movies, but three. It had to be that way and we will share why soon. So this episode's podcast focuses on the Fear Street trilogy that was released last summer on Netflix. The series of movies was directed by Lee Janica, or Janiak.
00:02:41
Speaker
I've pretty much screwed her name up already. I'm so sorry, Lee. But this was created from scripts and stories that she co-wrote with other contributors.
Guest Appearance and Film Discussion
00:02:50
Speaker
And I'm hoping that after listening to this podcast, you'll be inspired to check out this series of movies on Netflix, or if you've already seen it, maybe worth a rewatch this weekend. So.
00:03:02
Speaker
Let's get into it. I want to introduce who's joining me today because I am super excited to have this person on my podcast. We've been talking about doing this for a while and we finally made it happen.
Understanding the Trilogy's Narrative
00:03:12
Speaker
So joining me is Veronica Beatrice, a fellow cinephile, a multi hyphenated artist. We're talking writing, acting, all of that. And she has a background in film studies and myth studies, which is going to be so useful for this discussion. So Veronica, hello, welcome. How are you doing?
00:03:31
Speaker
Hi, Toppy. I'm super, super, super glad to be here. I'm glad we've made this work. And I'm so glad also that I warned you that we had to watch all of them. I was doing a rewatch.
00:03:47
Speaker
because I rewatched all of the films in preparation. And initially we said it was just going to be six and 66. And I had kind of assumed, I think he'd thrown out the idea of like the option of doing 1978 or 1666. Yeah. Like any one of the trilogues basically.
00:04:04
Speaker
Yeah. And I, for some reason, I guess I thought that maybe you'd covered the 1994, like the first one at some point and, um, or that you had it covered and you were going to split them up with, with different
Chronological Storytelling Choices
00:04:18
Speaker
guests. Nope. Then I got to the, you know, I rewatched all of them because they're super interconnected and I got to the last one and I was also prepping by listening to
00:04:30
Speaker
previous episodes of your podcast and like you had gotten you'd gone into devs without Having seen a prior and I was like, oh no, I have to warn her. Yes Thank you. So now and and that's true. It was like his initially, you know, I have this humongous lists and
00:04:50
Speaker
that I have in my little box and it's like all of these films directed by women and sometimes you have one from the same director and in your mind you're like oh well you know I'd love to watch more than one but obviously I can only dedicate a podcast episode to like one film and so you know I knew that this was a trilogy
Emotional Journey and 90s Critique
00:05:09
Speaker
But I thought it was one of those things kind of like what Halloween was trying to do at the beginning where it was going to try to be this anthology where each of the stories are different. And so I was like, okay, we're just going to pick one of these anthologies. And so having you kind of say to me, BT dubs, girl, like, you're not going to totally understand what's going on in this final part three without
00:05:35
Speaker
watching all of these. And it's really interesting because if you were to ask me what is the order of this, I would have said, of course, 1666 comes first because chronologically, obviously, and I love that it didn't. I love that Fierce Street starts with 1994 and we go
00:05:56
Speaker
we basically have a throwback like we're going back back. So totally glad that you did because it just once I got to the end of the trilogy like I started lukewarm but at the end I was just like hell yeah bitches we did this we did this I felt like I was part of the crew so
00:06:19
Speaker
You have seen all of these movies before and I came into it like a new bomb babe and so I'm definitely interested to talk about later on like what it felt like to rewatch it especially for those people who maybe saw it the first time I'll tell you like when I saw 994 I was like Y'all
00:06:45
Speaker
This is like, what are we even doing here? Right. And I obviously, you know, because I am I was born in the 80s. The 90s was my time. I was like critiquing all of it. I was like, first of all,
00:07:03
Speaker
that garbage song came out in 995, not 994. Right, like the chronology of that. And it's pulling for stuff from stuff that's like, it's pulling a lot from Scream, which is 96. Yeah, it was so like, you know, for me, it felt, I felt like they were borrowing from some of these occult classics that I had grown up, you know, looking at and, you know, it's like Scream meets Home Alone meets
00:07:30
Speaker
Like, you know, and I was I just felt like, yeah, it it kind of at the beginning felt very kind of I don't know what the word is, not stereotypical, but yeah, that's the one. And I don't know if that was on purpose or if it was just kind of like to lead me into a false sense of security of the going for like a vibe.
00:07:57
Speaker
But eventually, as I went through the trilogy, I felt good about it. Right.
Musical Impact on Storytelling
00:08:05
Speaker
I will say 1994 is, I think, for me, the weakest in terms of a couple of things, in terms of the time period, the pacing. I think on Rewatch, what really
00:08:21
Speaker
stuck out to me was you're guided through these films by the score, the music. And part of what makes 1994, like especially egregious of like, over the head with nostalgia is there's a needle drop. Like, you know, every like I have in my notes, I'm like, what is this suicide squad? The first
00:08:44
Speaker
You know, like it's a lot of needle drops and they don't always work. Some of them I think do, but what else happened? Like another thing that happens is the score is a lot more whimsical in 1994. So you get a lot of those more almost kind of like
00:09:04
Speaker
Goofier, kind of John Williams-y moments and a lot of the kind of undercutting the seriousness of a situation with the humans, which is also on trend right now in a lot of films.
00:09:22
Speaker
you get that and then as you go through the films and we'll get to it but the like 1978 is pretty cemented in that kind of time period which also feels nostalgic and yeah 1666 does a completely different thing with its score it really does yeah and like for me i think that what maybe made 994 fail for me was at the beginning
00:09:46
Speaker
with all of the scenes that were being introduced to all of these characters, it really just felt like I was going through an MTV show. And it's just music scene, music scene, music scene. And it just feels like an MTV playlist. I just put the TV on and it's just running from one song to the other. And I wasn't really getting connected to the characters until I think we have that moment where
00:10:12
Speaker
the shady ciders and the sunny valors meet. And then I was like, Oh, Sam's a girl. Right. Yeah. That's the best part where it's like the scene that comes to mind when you say that. And it literally is kind of like a music video.
00:10:30
Speaker
Yeah, of a piece. And that's kind of when I went into it, I just put it on for that. I was like, you know, I put stuff on when I'm cleaning, I don't always watch it, take as much attention. And there is I will say, there's a lot of setup.
Class Disparity and Societal Themes
00:10:44
Speaker
Yeah, I did not notice and like, it pays off magnificently. But there's a lot of stuff that I missed the first time because I was I just had it on as like my like folding laundry movie. Yes.
00:10:57
Speaker
I love those, those do that all the time, all the time. And you know, if it had just been that, I would have been fine. Like I went into it thinking like, I want a little, you know, like popcorn, just some light. Low expectations. Right. I'm not trying to get my skirt blown up here. It's just airy surface level.
00:11:14
Speaker
On that level, where you're like, if all I'm getting is a pastiche with too many needle drops and surprise lesbians, cool. That's not bad. It could be worse. It could be worse. And then they just take that and run with it and do so much more with it. They do so much more. Yeah. The scene I was thinking when you said all that was when you're getting
00:11:37
Speaker
you're introduced to a lot of the characters and their kind of motivations just kind of walking through the hallway and it's kind of like the almost like the stereo flipping between people's songs and it's so it's an excuse to express character through so many needle drops and like the
00:11:56
Speaker
Like the music supervisor at Netflix. It's not even Netflix because this was Although it could have been I don't know if it in post it may have been because they were looking they filmed it in 2019 and they were looking for a distributor. Okay, and that's when they went to Netflix, but
00:12:13
Speaker
it either way, at whatever point, I know the music supervisor at Netflix saw this and just like went off because because that's a very Netflix thing to do. Yeah. Uh huh. It definitely fits the vibe. Yeah. And so we'll just like take a step back for a minute. For those of you who don't know anything about this movie, a series of movies. So
00:12:38
Speaker
Fierce Street, which is my understanding, the script is based off of some books, the Fierce Street series by R. L. Stein. But this particular trilogy starts off in 1994. It's a very west side story, guys. We got the right side of the tracks. We got the left side of the tracks.
00:13:07
Speaker
I don't even know if there's tracks but there is and it's it seems very cheesy You have shady side and then you have Sunnyvale and it's you know, when you get those names, you're like, haha Okay guys, I get it and you know, obviously shady
Teen Autonomy and 90s Culture
00:13:21
Speaker
ciders. They've had a whole string of bad luck all the kids They're terrible. They have horrible schools, you know, I'm I'm seeing some in a city references here Which I'm just like loving it and then you have your suburbia Sunnyvale everything
00:13:37
Speaker
perfect lawns, blondes just at your school. It's just, you know, everything is just great. But there is obviously a dark history that is kind of bubbling under the surface. And so what Fierce Street does is it takes us back to the origin, the OG of how these two worlds were established. And it, you know, it kicks off with a killing in Shadyside Mall.
00:14:06
Speaker
Where else would you want to die a horrific death in the 90s in the 90s has got to be the mall in much love to Maya Hawk. I'm really sad that she only had an opening scene basically and they killed her off.
00:14:22
Speaker
She was the Drew Barry more of this. She was. She was in it was kind of freaky because she looks so much like her mom. And so all I'm thinking about is like her is Uma Thurman, you know, just kind of hanging out there in this mall. I love her. I love her vibe. I just I wish she was more in the movie, but I'm also kind of glad that they killed her off because like my expectations have been so high. But so we start off with this murder.
00:14:52
Speaker
And it's senseless. It's just this kid that just loses it. And it's full like Mike Myers situation, you know, in the mall. And, you know, everyone's like, this stuff always happens. It's Sarah fear, the witch from like beyond enslaving these people and basically turning them into killers. And these things seem to happen like every few years or whatever.
00:15:20
Speaker
And of course it's the legend continues and it's very deeply ingrained in the life, the culture, just the way they see themselves. It's like everybody says the shady side is your bad and the sunny balers are just perfect. So that's kind of a context for where we start with 1994.
00:15:41
Speaker
Yeah, there's even a nursery rhyme that they have. She rises from beyond the grave to make good men her wicked slaves. Her wicked slaves. You know what?
00:15:51
Speaker
I love those things like whenever it's just such a cutesy witchy thing and I'm just like, I'm into it. It's like there's lore, you know, there's lore in there. And it's a lore that is accessible to like a lot of people. And so like, I mean, firstly, I was like watching this and I was just like, Okay, first of all, where are the parents?
00:16:13
Speaker
Yeah. I saw one parent. It was Sam's mom at some point. But it's just like, where are all the parents? I don't even see teachers. That's the thing about it. I think that's most accurate to the 90s is there are no parents on site. There are either away on vacation or at an AA meeting. They are not present. They are not there. Absentee parents, convenient for the plot.
00:16:39
Speaker
Exactly. The only adult is the police officer, specifically. And then I'm sitting there going, what kind of teenager has a pager in the 90s? I definitely did not have a pager, I'll tell you that.
00:16:55
Speaker
I never got one. Exactly. So that was also kind of, I mean, this is where I started just like tearing this thing apart. Like, first of all, as a 90 kid myself, let me tell you what we did not have. But then I then suddenly I was like, oh my God, I think I'm invested.
00:17:11
Speaker
Yeah, they really they get you because they kind of have to throw a lot of stuff like we open and the first thing that we kind of see is like the the um interaction between my hawks character and she's selling of course what else uh goosebumps yeah paperback um to a very like sneering yeah woman who's like it's for my stepdaughter it's lowbrow trash
00:17:38
Speaker
You know, and so, like, we're already introduced to this, like, we know what you think of us. We know viewers. Yeah. And we're OK with that. Yeah. Yeah. We're here to have some fun and to get some kills and, you know, setting those expectations. And then, like, they kind of go through all of the teenage angst like they, you know, they throw
00:18:00
Speaker
Portis had sour times as like a needle drop at one point. And then the most egregious needle drop for me was like, creep is one of the ones. Oh my God. I was like, please stop. Our intrepid baby lesbian, Dina, you know, she's like we, you know, she
00:18:24
Speaker
They hear that there's going to be a vigil that the Sunnyveilers are putting together. And the Shittysiders have to come. Like anyone who's in band, a cheerleader or like a football player, they have to attendance is mandatory from both schools. And we find out that Dina has like quit band. She's jumped back in just to get there, you know, to see Sam.
00:18:53
Speaker
what we glean at this point is her ex. And we find out when we get there that, you know, after some lingering longing shots of her looking at Sunnyvale cheerleader and football player getting together, we get the kind of bait and switch
Societal Expectations and Consequences
00:19:11
Speaker
And find out that Sam is the girl and that she's a shady cider who moved to Sunnyvale, which is also significant. Yeah. Stepmom also, I think. Stepmom. I think it's her mom-mom. It's her mom-mom. Yeah. And it kind of, it's kind of, you know, again, it's that...
00:19:30
Speaker
kind of like Grease, kind of like a West Side Story, this whole like, I need to leave this place that brings people down. I need to go somewhere where I can have opportunity. And sometimes, you know, like, you know, she eventually says sometimes that means leaving a part of yourself, shutting a part of yourself away because you think that like the only way to escape is to be different is to. And that's a theme that kind of goes on. Even when we go to like fear Street 1978 and we're we're talking about
00:20:02
Speaker
Cindy Berman and Ziggy's sister who's like, I have to be this perfect person. I have to dress a certain way. I have to be a certain way if I want to succeed. I have to throw my friends under the bus.
00:20:15
Speaker
Exactly. If I want to be like a Sunnyveiler, because again, Sunnyveil is seen as this epitome of success, of having it all, having your dream, and you have to be a certain way to be there. And what's the truth is, is that the Sunnyveilers are just as fucked up. Like they have their own darkness. It's just hidden
00:20:44
Speaker
on the ground, literally and figuratively. And it's purchased by blood. It's purchased by throwing other people under the bus by demonizing the shady ciders.
00:21:03
Speaker
And yeah, just kind of seeing that theme kind of run through all three of it, it was just like, okay, so this is a little cleverer than I thought, you know? Yeah. There's like that undercurrent that you start to see in the first film where it's like, you know, they all, it used to be one town and you kind of get a bit of that history and then it split up. It went from being Union, this like funky little, little pilgrim town and
00:21:32
Speaker
then you get Sunnyvale and Shadyside and Shadyside or as they often, the Sunnyveilers often call it Shadyside. Which is very, you know, that's pretty, that is what teenagers would say all the time. Teenagers would totally do that. Absolutely. Yeah. You know, they really do get the shit end of the stick and you get this
00:21:56
Speaker
Even like as far as the opening credits go they give you all of these like histories of like another shit shady side teenager you know loses it and it's always the same story where like as soon as somebody.
Marginalization and Systemic Violence
00:22:11
Speaker
who's doing well seemingly is great, no other prior, maybe, incidents, and then they just kind of lose it and they murder people around them. There's all these other tragedies that pile up and pile up and there's that history of that and they can't seem to get out of it.
00:22:33
Speaker
I find it really interesting that they also set this thing up where as soon as someone from Shadyside kind of gets a little
00:22:41
Speaker
like too big for their boots kind of thing where it's like as soon as they set their mind on leaving and they get those ambitions and they start working towards that and they're getting close to getting out of this cycle of poverty and violence, they are pushed back and they're struck down and really violently. And I think on rewatch what I found is the most violent deaths in the series are
00:23:10
Speaker
enacted upon the people who have those ambitions, who are trying to get out. And so Sam is the first kind of evidence of this shady cider who got out ostensibly. And so of course, we know that she's going to be punished for this. And the stakes are already high. As soon as you realize that these are
00:23:34
Speaker
teenage lesbians, the stakes are very high because we know that cinema is not kind to sapphics, especially those who choose to act on their feelings. Especially not in the 90s.
00:23:50
Speaker
No, not in the 90s. So there's a lot of stuff with this that makes this trilogy incredibly ambitious, like just from the jump. It is so interesting when you talk about violence being done to those who may appear to be
00:24:10
Speaker
better than the Sunnyveilas would like or they might get out or they might get successful. And I can't help but say, as Childish Gambino would say, hashtag this is America. Yeah. And again, this is a film that like on the surface, it's just funny. It's just fun. But then as I'm sitting and I am just kind of
00:24:38
Speaker
like marinating in it, this is the story of America. Like down to the core, you know, when you think about poverty, when you think about the inner city, when you think about, you know, I'm doing like quotation marks in here, the ghetto, there's a lot of violence there and the violence is to perpetuate poverty, the drugs,
00:25:06
Speaker
the deaths, all of that is to perpetuate poverty. The fact that we don't even see their parents is also such a big thing that you can see in communities where poverty is very rife. Everybody is just trying to survive. There's drinking, there's alcoholism, there's drug use, all of that stuff. And then when you do have, you have like one or two that maybe claw their way out and there's just, there's survivor's guilt.
00:25:36
Speaker
Um, for having left that, but sometimes some of the best minds don't even make it out because they're shot dead by the police. Hello. Um, and then not to like throw out spoilers here, guys, you might want to leave if you don't like spoilers, but the police are kind of involved here, people. Um, and so, yeah, structures of power. And I was, you know, by the end of it, I was like,
00:26:01
Speaker
damn this is america like yeah you're watching it you're like is this is doing what i think it's doing and it's very you know and it's blatant it's very obvious like it's it's on the nose i think the most on the nose is in the first you know like there's there's a moment where dina just kind of goes off in the bathroom because her friends are making light of
00:26:22
Speaker
have the recent death of Heather, my house character. But you were saying, you know, we never see the parents. And I think, I'm pretty sure the only parents we do see are like, the, the Sunny Village, because we see Sam's mom, we see the sheriff, we see the mayor, and as far as Shady Shire. You see them as happy families.
00:26:43
Speaker
Yeah, and shady side, everyone's kind of on their own. So you see the I think the only adults we really see so like Heather mentions that the only reason she's working late at the mall at night is because her mom spent like gambled away the check meant for the gas. So she said, yeah, Dina's father is implied to or stated to be an alcoholic.
Gender and Power Dynamics
00:27:07
Speaker
Yeah. And he just comes and goes. Yeah. And then the only other adults we see is we briefly see Nurse Lane, former Nurse Lane, show up. And that's when she's taking in the twins that Kate is supposed to be babysitting. And then we see
00:27:29
Speaker
Martin the janitor at all. He's introduced and love his character so much. Yeah, well, he was fun. Yeah, no. And like talking also about just kind of setting up. Negative narratives of people, I have to confess that I was roped into really just like.
00:28:00
Speaker
feeling some way about Seraphir. And when I got to the end of the trilogy, it was one of those things where I was like, even the women are not exempt from the narrative that men create about women who reject them.
00:28:23
Speaker
Yeah. You know, and guys, they were kind of flipping back and forth. Yeah. There's no way to do it otherwise. This whole story going back to 1666 is where we really find the origin of why Shadyside and Sunnyvale exists. And ultimately, you know, Seraphir the Witch, who wasn't really a witch, it just was a young lady who found out the truth about someone who had a lot of power
00:28:53
Speaker
And this speaks to women who have tried to shine a light on men who are bad actors, who are abusers, who are violent.
Complex Narrative Structure
00:29:05
Speaker
And what ends up happening is that the
00:29:09
Speaker
that person uses their platform, that man uses his platform to create a narrative about that woman. Oh, she's a slut. Oh, she's, she's like, you know, this and that. And in this case, it was like, she's the witch. Yeah. And
00:29:25
Speaker
This story continues throughout history for hundreds of years, 300 years, generations, to the point that teenagers at school are telling this story. And whenever something happens, their seraphir is blamed.
00:29:42
Speaker
Because I remember sitting there thinking, really, she got pissed off because somebody fell on her grave and now she's sending killers to kill Sam. Like, come on girl, I think that's a little petty. And then as I got to the end, I was like, oh, Sarah, I'm really sorry. I apologize. I think that's one of the most excellent things about this that especially gets better on rewatch is you go into it and every film,
00:30:10
Speaker
that comes after, you know, is every success of film tells you something. It enhances your understanding of what came before. So 1978.
00:30:24
Speaker
makes some of the things that you already saw happen in 1994 take on a deeper meaning. And 1666 gives a whole deeper context. So this series is really excellent about setting up things for future payoffs and also
00:30:44
Speaker
giving you just as much information as you need. Making you feel like you know stuff and then pulling the rug out from under you. It feeds you a lot of mystery and answers just enough. One of the things I was really afraid of is you hear seraphir, seraphir,
00:31:06
Speaker
those curses about her. I was expecting at best that we get there and see her story. And I was expecting something like The Witch, where it's like she was driven to becoming this antagonist, putting some sort of curse on the people because she was personally
00:31:35
Speaker
Impacted because like she she was ostracized in some way. So she became a witch and The best that I expected was like wolf root for her, you know, you will understand her. She'll be a sympathetic villain but ultimately it you know, it's gonna do that thing that I think a lot of almost every like thing where you see that's kind of like
00:31:57
Speaker
riffing off of the Salem witchcraft trials is doing where it's like, there really were witches, but but we like them, you know, the girl bosses, girl power. Yeah. And and I was worried because that's kind of how it always plays out. Like, there's always something where, like,
00:32:16
Speaker
Yeah, you're the victim, but you went too far. We can't condone murder. We can't completely root for you, but we don't not root for you. Yeah, and it's not what they did at all. So that's what makes this, I think they were pulling from pop cultural memory of the witch, but also the thing that I really thought of was the crucible. I think that much more it's pulling from the crucible and film adaptation of that came out in 96.
00:32:44
Speaker
Oh, um, with, uh, Winona Ryder and Daniel Davis and all that. And, you know, the, I'm sure listeners are aware, but the Arthur Miller play was about the McCarthy era. So it was about the Hollywood blacklist and censorship and projecting all of these, um, white hegemonic 1960s, 50s, 60s values.
00:33:13
Speaker
and enforcing them in the pop culture, in the literature, in the material. And the ghost of that already deeply impacts cinema, but especially horror. Horror is the genre that deals and
00:33:28
Speaker
roots out all of those things that are deemed too ugly for like more perceived cinema, more highbrow stuff to deal with. And the and the crucible, like there's no actual witches in there. The whole thing is it's like the whole town is just willing to turn on each other. And you get a lot of hints of that where it's like the complicity of everything involved. So it's not just like it's
00:33:57
Speaker
It's the people in power who lay down the law and who write those laws and who deal in all of these shady things and then project the blame onto the marginalized classes. And then at the same time, in order for that to work, they have to stoke
00:34:20
Speaker
The fears they have to stop the fear. Uh-huh, right? So that's exactly what happened here. Yeah, and it's it's such a very like simple but interesting way to do it where like You know, you might not even know that this is the message you're receiving. I don't even know if like I
00:34:38
Speaker
you know, Lee Janiak and her team were like, yes, this is how we're trying to project this. But I mean, I hope so because it was it's so cleverly done that like my mind that like automatically goes to that, you know, they, you know, they are stoking this fear, but they're also
00:34:57
Speaker
kind of creating the violence in those communities, right? Because they're pitting one Shady Cider against the other, one being possessed, you know, and the other kind of being a victim of it, all for power.
00:35:18
Speaker
i guess you should maybe break down the mechanism like at this point we're we're in deep enough that we can i guess go through the mechanism of what exactly
00:35:30
Speaker
the curse is because I think it'll probably be helpful. Yes, let's do it. I'm going to let you lay it out because you are the film and myth studies person. I'm the fear street scholar. The fear street scholar. We have an expert with us today who's going to break down the mythology that has been happening in the community of Shadyside, Dr. Veronica Beatrice. Indeed.
00:35:56
Speaker
Oh, why thank you. Toppy, I must say so. Basically, we find out that all of this was started by the one ancestor of the the the current mayor, who is like very much, you know, kind of kind of lampshaded as as the looking kind of villainous as fuck the whole time, like you're kind of looking at him and you're like,
00:36:20
Speaker
There's no way he's a good guy, right? No, his name is actually good, too. Good, yeah, with an E at the end. With an E. To make it old-timey, but like, you know, then you get the whole, like, they milk the whole good. Good is evil. I loved it. I love it. I'm a sucker for that.
00:36:36
Speaker
I was like, feed it to me. I'll eat it. But basically, we find out that he has struck a deal with the devil. And so he and then all of his descendants, like the first born of the first born of every, you know, every good since first born son, I should say, because it's got to be a son. It's got to be a son.
00:37:02
Speaker
So they basically, they go down, they do their little satanic ritual and they write the name of a person, which it turns out, you know, it's always a shady cider because after Solomon Good, they split up the town.
00:37:19
Speaker
Yeah. And so it's it's always got to be a shady cider and that shady cider gets possessed by the devil, goes on a killing spree and then the devil feeds on the blood. Like all the blood chilled. Yeah. Yeah. And then so but there are but there's more but wait. So the so Sarah fear who
00:37:44
Speaker
used to be friends with Solomon Goode and then because she also was a lesbian and she found out about what he was doing and also rejected him romantically and so he threw her under the bus and then she takes the blame for all of this but her dying words basically, her last words
Curse Mechanism and Character Impact
00:38:10
Speaker
uh, are that she's going to haunt him and his assignments for the rest of his days. And she's going to, the truth will come out and she's going to show the world what he's done. And so what happens is a shady side or his name gets written in the book and it's always someone
00:38:26
Speaker
who is exceptionally a good guy. Like it's always a good person. Their name gets written in the book and the slabs and the devil possesses them. They go on this rampage. They get killed. And then if then it's like it's like a coding program, you know, it's like if there is by chance someone
00:38:51
Speaker
who gets anywhere near the body of Sarah fear. And like they kind of, they get their spidey senses tingle, they bleed. And if they bleed near, you know, there's the blood drops near the earth of where she or one of her body parts is. There's this whole thing where her hand is missing, so they gotta reunite the hand and body.
00:39:21
Speaker
Then they kind of start getting these these visions and she starts trying to like break through her ghost tries to get the story out to them and then at that point all like a bunch of the previous killers get reanimated and they start coming after a
00:39:41
Speaker
whoever dropped blood near there and so and they seek out the blood and and so that means anyone else who is um maybe like wearing the blood or or you know is is near that person or just standing in their way so like the shady side killer
00:40:02
Speaker
the way that they kind of split up the town and do all their redlining and gerrymandering is basically to keep all of the killing to that side. So the Shady Cider is not likely to be in proximity with the Sunny Villas. The Sunny Villas are safe. The Shady Ciders are always the ones who get sent to the slaughter. And then if the
00:40:24
Speaker
there is someone who gets close to finding out, then the reanimated killers, they kill absolutely anyone who might get in their way, Sunnyveilers included.
Historical Allegory for Systemic Oppression
00:40:36
Speaker
Literally, they could be in their way. Sam's boyfriend, who's a Sunnyveiler, gets killed because he's literally just standing between the reanimated killers.
00:40:47
Speaker
Yeah, like skull mask or something killer. Yeah. And then, you know, and so they're cool. They become collateral damage because the number one priority is protecting the reputation of the good man. Yeah, very burying the truth and keeping it buried.
00:41:03
Speaker
And to go back, why put the name of Shady Siders? What is he getting out of this? And really, when we go back to 1666, Solomon Good, who is the great-great-great-grandpappy of Nick Good,
00:41:23
Speaker
I'm so glad you used that word. I know. I was going to do it. You know, he had suffered loss. His wife had died. His, you know, child had died. And he turned to the devil because he's just like, why me? Like I need to have good things happening in my life. And it was really like that sense of desperation.
00:41:43
Speaker
Also, he didn't want to pick his own cotton. But what I mean when I was trying to say. Literally, because he already comes from money and it's implied that he kind of put all of his share into tilling the land, cultivating the land. Exactly. He has this huge house in the woods. But he sucks at farming. He just sucks at it.
00:42:08
Speaker
doesn't want to be embarrassed in front of his family. So he contacted, you know, dial 411 for the devil and 66 for the devil, um, call collect and devil picked up and was like, yeah, just give me some people that you don't like and you will be successful. And we see this because not only does he thrive, but where he is the center of where he is, his home,
00:42:35
Speaker
grows and becomes the town. His family, they've been the sheriff, they've been the mayor, they're in all the positions of power. So they have power, they have money, they have reputation. There is a lot to lose if the truth comes out. And of course, like any lie, the longer it goes on, the more devastating
00:43:00
Speaker
it is when that truth comes out.
Climactic Revelations and Resolutions
00:43:04
Speaker
So devastating that at some point, once this curse is broken, accidents are happening all over Sunnyvale. Like people are, it's kind of like- It's final destination, baby. It's final destination. Ooh, that just triggered.
00:43:19
Speaker
This is why I don't drive behind trucks, guys. I just don't at all. If you know, you know. Let's talk about 1978, because I know we've done 94 in 1666.
00:43:33
Speaker
So and just to lead you guys into 78. So at the end of 1994, they think that the way to break this curse into basically save Sam's life because Sam bled her nose all over the unknowingly over the grave of Seraphir and is now being chased and and all these killers are trying to kill her. So they find an article
00:43:58
Speaker
Because, because Sheriff Nick Goode also wrote her name, like he realized like she's seen some shit. So like, she knows, she knows. So he writes her name in the book, you know, to make her like, because if she's possessed, he's gonna kill all of the other shady ciders who might be getting close.
00:44:16
Speaker
and Dina too, who's this troublemaker, you know, who refuses to tell him the truth. And so they try to save her, they, you know, paper clippings. And side note, I want to talk about the brother of Dina, I figured his name.
00:44:33
Speaker
Yes, is it Josh? Anyway, can I just say like 180 flip on how to write black characters because they could have easily killed this guy. First of all, they didn't thank you Lee really appreciate it to you gave me my nerdy. I live in the basement. I play video games. I'm on AOL chat.
00:44:57
Speaker
My mantra is the Konami code. I was just like this chubby little brown boy is solving all of these crimes. It was great. It was refreshing. It was new. Let's keep doing that. And of course, he's got all these conspiracy theory stuff on his wall. And he's like, hey, by the way, the one person that survived died and came back. And so they decide that they're like going to kill Sam and bring her back.
00:45:25
Speaker
Now, you know, me, I'm like sitting there, it's like, y'all still an ambulance, why don't you just use the different. It's like right there. But no, true love means drowning your girlfriend in a lobster tank.
00:45:41
Speaker
Well, the lobster was not in a tank. They set the lobster free, obviously. They set the lobster free. Animal friendly. But I was like, is this love? Like, is this, you know? You know, of course she dies, and it seems like the curse has ended. A whole bunch of people die as a result. It's not cute. Because you've got to do the CPR. You know, we couldn't defibrillate. We got to do the CPR because it's like proxy kisses. Yeah, with the kiss and all of that. Oh, that's fine, I guess.
00:46:11
Speaker
It was all for the plot. But anyway, yes, like Sam gets possessed, like you mentioned, because now her name is written on the wall and she's possessed and she's trying to kill Dina, her love, and everybody else that knows about this. And so they decided to go and find this person who survived. They actually they so they they
00:46:35
Speaker
If you recall they call her before they try to call and then they I think they don't get to her because they're trying to They find like through the newspaper clippings. There's like a survivor. It's C Berman. I
00:46:50
Speaker
And so they reach out, they try to call, and that's how they find out that like C. Berman was clinically dead for a couple minutes before being revived in 1978. And so they can't get anything there, but after it's over and their besties have died, Kate and Simon, who died like brutally, like Kate is...
00:47:15
Speaker
bread slicing oh my god it's never want to see that again it's vicious it's disproportionate it feels mean spirited and then of course it's because she's like she's she's one of my favorites as a character i just have to say because she's like she's the one who's getting out in that one where she's like
00:47:33
Speaker
I am president of all the clubs in school, I'm a cheerleader, I'm valedictorian, I'm going to deal all the drugs I have to deal to get the money to get out of this town. Of course, when she's killed with a vengeance, how dare she, right?
00:47:55
Speaker
way violent right and so she and simon uh after being killed like they they kind of have no choice but to pin the everything on them and so then they get blamed as you know another pair of shady yeah shady side is they're drug dealers that's what that's what how this all went wrong even though no one's really asking it's like how did she get her head in a hair in the bread slicer how did he get his an axe in his head no too many questions too many questions
00:48:23
Speaker
And so, you know, they kind of where I'm going with this is they eventually see burden calls them at the end and is like you got out you survived. Yeah, you know, and then and then it's not over.
00:48:39
Speaker
And so, yeah, they go over to her house and they're like, so my girlfriend's possessed, like, what do we do? And that's where we see, you know, she brings out this Polaroid from 1978 and then we go into the Polaroid, which is so cool. And then we're in 1978.
00:48:56
Speaker
and it's all camp and you know i'm thinking friday the 13th big time you know like just your classic 70s horror cabin in the woods all of that stuff you know lighting is gorgeous the light
00:49:12
Speaker
Lighting is surfier, good, okay? For all the skin tones. Saturation. They get the time period colors very right. I feel like they really do. And it's the shorthand. So even if I miss the title, I'm like, hey, this feels very 70s. Oh, this feels very 90s. I can get there.
00:49:34
Speaker
You can get the very, like the grunge lighting and then we have the beautiful saturation of the 70s, the late 70s, where everything feels kind of like lush and rich and bright. And then the much more like desaturated gray hues in 1666.
00:49:53
Speaker
Yeah. And yeah. And so that's what we meet. What we believe is the young C. Berman, Christine Berman. I think she goes by Cindy sometimes. No, Cindy's a different person. Well, that's what so that's that's what kind of I think stretches because I think from the very beginning we're given the indication that the person that we meet, played by Sadie Sink,
00:50:20
Speaker
Wonderful, by the way. I think that the cinematography tells us that she's
00:50:28
Speaker
C. Berman. Yes. It aligns us with it. But then there's kind of a fake out at the at the very end where Josh is like, wait, you're like C. Berman is Ziggy. What? Yeah, exactly. And I still don't understand because OK, so here's here's what happens.
Character Motivations and Shifting Alliances
00:50:43
Speaker
This is also around the time where we meet baby Nick Goode, who is currently sheriff and mayor in 1994. But this is him as he's, you know, final years camp counselor. And he has a thing for C. Berman.
00:50:57
Speaker
who is in her one of the campers yes yeah oh well he's in his first year as a camp counselor she's her final year as a camp attendee and you know there's something going on there you know it's like star-crossed lovers from different sides of the tracks you know he's he's a guy from like the suburbs she's a girl from the inner city and they're weird it's like lady in the tramp but their noodle is steven king books
00:51:22
Speaker
Oh, isn't that so cute? But, you know, she will be betrayed by him eventually because she doesn't know that he comes from a family of fucking just evil. And it's being passed on. And, you know, like at the time when
00:51:38
Speaker
Even when I found out like what his history was, there was that moment where I kind of felt sorry for him because he does talk about this weight of this history. Y'all hashtag he was talking about white privilege in case you weren't sure.
00:51:56
Speaker
But it's like... Talking about benefiting off of slavery and lynching and all of these things. ...the bloodshed. And he wants to break away from that. He was like, I don't want to continue this.
00:52:12
Speaker
but it just shows you how strong this history is, how it pulls people in. Even when you are aware of the systems, even though you're aware of how you benefit from it, even though you're aware that you have this unwritten contract to continue this whole charade,
00:52:34
Speaker
It's such a strong pull that it's really hard to walk away from to the point where he had an opportunity when Ziggy is laying there. He brought her back to life after she was trying to basically reunite the hand of Seraphir with the body of Seraphir, which would have unveiled the truth. And the killers are after her. The killers have technically killed her.
00:53:01
Speaker
And he brings her back to life and she's lying there and she's like, the curse is real. And this is a moment where he could make that decision and say, I'm going to stand with Ziggy. I'm going to bring this whole thing down. Yeah. And he's like, I can't let you or anybody else die tonight. And I really had hope. And I was like, oh.
00:53:21
Speaker
Yeah, he feels like like they do a pretty good job of making him seem like he could be heroic. Like, yeah, in in that movie in particular. And what I found striking watching it back is the kind of ambiguity that you have with Sheriff. Like, I know I say that they lampshade that he's the killer, the killer. He's the baddie. And a lot of moments, you know, the score kind of
00:53:48
Speaker
shows us. But there's enough ambiguity, like he seems very sincere whenever he's interacting with people. He genuinely wants to help. And what I found this time around was part of what motivates him as a character, I feel like, is he needs to be the hero. He needs to be the hero. So in 1998... To balance out maybe all the bad.
00:54:13
Speaker
stuff. His guilt like he's I think he's kind of addicted not just to the the power like you know his his brother is the one as the mayor who gets to be in the spotlight and he I think needs to be the guy who saves the day so yeah in 1994 we're introduced to him when he guns down Ryan Torres the first killer that we see
00:54:40
Speaker
And then, you know, you realize that he's the one who wrote that kid's name in the book. And so he knew to be there to, you know, he does kind of try to keep things to a minimum. So he has he has shown to not he's kind of squeamish about the bloodshed. You know, he doesn't he doesn't want to see it. He doesn't want to feel culpable.
00:55:00
Speaker
Yeah. So, you know, there's just a wee bit of killing and then he shows up, he saves the day, enough blood has been spilled for the devil. But then- Unlike his predecessors who were like 20 kids, man. Right. Go for it, you know. Fuckin' kids. Yeah.
00:55:15
Speaker
But he in 1978 he like that's his first summer where he wrote that name He wrote his name in the book because we others dead at that point before he died. He told them all this shit Yeah about his his duty. So he feels like this is his duty to protect their legacy and so he
00:55:36
Speaker
writes the name of another very good guy in the book and he can control the situation enough there. I think he's rationalizing it as he can do damage control. He throws up when he sees the evidence of some of the murders.
00:55:55
Speaker
Yeah because like literally children. Children! Can I say thank you Lee for not showing it because like I feel like it's scary or not seeing it honestly. Yeah it's scary not seeing it but I also feel like if it was a man doing this like they would have shown it like they would just shown everything just to be like oh let's it's like edgy let's like you know I mean and I I don't need to see babies bleeding and all of that stuff so
00:56:24
Speaker
But I was freaked out enough by it. Yeah, it's effective. It's very effective to have a cabin full of scared children and suddenly the door opens or the lights go out. You don't need more than that because what you imagine will suffice. And so this kid, Nick, he's like, baby Nick is like,
00:56:47
Speaker
he gets to play the hero because he can kind of effectively like for the most part, keep the Shady Siders and Sunnyveilers in one place, especially because they're doing color war. Funny enough, they're doing color war at that time. So all of them are going to be grouped. Yeah, you know, in one space. Exactly. And less likely to, you know, be
00:57:09
Speaker
Like intermingling it's gonna be more kind of off in there a little like colorboard jails Really exactly which is ha ha funny and a funny exactly And then he can save the day and be and be like hey like I it could have been worse You know and so he sets himself up to become the here Yeah, cuz he puts everybody on the bus right and he's like okay y'all get out of here. Yeah, I
00:57:33
Speaker
And then he shows up in 94 and then later on when the reanimated killers come in and start wreaking havoc at the hospital, he juts off to the hospital and part of it is so he can take credit for that, but also because he knows that the killers are going to be coming back
00:57:52
Speaker
To wherever, you know, whoever touched their blood. So like he knows he shouldn't be there when that happens. Exactly. Because those killers, every animated killers, you can't shoot down the bullets. So I feel like everything he's doing is motivated. Like he needs to be the good guy. And that goes back like that is for me re-contextualized with Solomon Goode. Solomon also has a need. Like he cannot have his image as a good guy. Like even even after he
00:58:23
Speaker
advocates ostensibly for rationality and he tries to talk down the zealots from these really terrible things. He tries to quell that.
00:58:38
Speaker
And then but but he's not brave enough to really stop it. And so he feeds into it ultimately to save his own skin Yeah, but he still and ultimately he serves the witch on a platter to them and because he really needs that validation Yeah, like she I think when we see Nick as a teenager he is more afraid of
00:59:00
Speaker
dealing with the weight of his guilty conscience. And so everything he seeks out from that point forward is like he needs the validation that he's a good guy actually. It's like he kind of found a way to almost make peace with the things he has to do. And it's kind of this like
00:59:23
Speaker
Right, because he sees himself as exceptional and he talks about the responsibility of that. That's his relationship with Ziggy too, where he likes her because she's an outsider. He likes her because she's different and they bond over their love of Stephen King.
00:59:45
Speaker
affection for her is predicated on the fact that she's not like other girls, you know, and not a compliment, by the way, if anyone ever says that to you. Yeah, just for the record, everybody putting out on the record that and and referring to women as females, like a
Narrative Dualities and Truths Revealed
01:00:02
Speaker
girl. We don't want that. Let's move on. I believe that shit in the 90s. But, you know, he like he likes Ziggy because she's different. And Solomon likes Sarah because she's different.
01:00:14
Speaker
And because he sees himself as someone who is different, an outsider, but he takes that and it becomes superiority for him. Because he sees himself as different, he uses it to justify his actions because he's like, well, I'm different and therefore I am better than everyone else.
01:00:30
Speaker
Yeah, and it's yeah, like it really does, you know, when you see that kind of motivation thread through all of the movies. And I am I did have a question, though, because when Ziggy's lying there asking where her sister is and they're asking her what her name is and he identifies her
01:00:57
Speaker
as her sister and not as Ziggy. Her name is Christine Ziggy's. I thought no. I think Christine is the sister. It's Cindy. So her sister is Cindy and she's Christine. And I think what happened was Josh assumed that maybe Cindy was short for Christine, but Ziggy's name is
01:01:27
Speaker
I'm pretty sure. I'm trying because they only ever referred to Ziggy as. As as so she said, so they're both see Berman. Yeah, they're both. And one is one is Ziggy and the other is Cindy. Yeah. But as she's laying there, Nick Nick says that she's Cindy.
01:01:50
Speaker
And she, yes, he basically identifies her as that. And then when we flip back later, because she's telling that story, and that's when Josh is like, you're Ziggy. Because she could have just said, hey, I'm Ziggy. And they would see that in the list. But I think there was a mix up there. And I don't really understand why he
01:02:17
Speaker
I'm not sure either. It feels like, was she just telling the story in the third person the whole time? She's credited as Christine Ziggy Berman. They're both C. Berman, but Christine is Ziggy.
01:02:36
Speaker
Cindy is is Cindy like yeah but but it's it's very kind of like i'm not sure how she must have been telling the story cuz i assume i can kinda rationalize that like we are seeing the story maybe not as she's telling it weird story and she's telling it like using different
01:02:56
Speaker
whatever, but no matter who you shake it, it's kind of like, was she telling it in the third person the whole time? Like, how did that go? I don't know if we needed that. That's one of the reasons why it's for me. Part of me thinks that maybe he said that she was Cindy.
01:03:20
Speaker
because her name, because she bled over the hand, so she's supposed to be dead. And Cindy's not supposed to be dead. And so maybe by saying that she's dead, it's his way of protecting her from any future harm. Because she literally becomes like an introvert. She does not leave the house. And then also, I think the other thing is, the newspaper article
01:03:48
Speaker
does not say that Ziggy is alive. Yeah, because she's a minor. Yeah, it makes it seem like the person that died was Ziggy and that Cindy survived. And so that's why I think Josh and them were like pretty shocked. They were like, oh, wait a second. You're Ziggy. You're not Cindy. You're not the person we thought you were based on this article. That is a good
01:04:16
Speaker
That's a good rationalization where it's like he's like almost lying to the devil in that way. Yes. Like you have your pound of flesh because in a way he kind of broke his deal with the devil by bringing her back. Yeah. That was that was the life that he. Yeah. It's it's really kind of.
01:04:35
Speaker
a consequence of all of that because he let Ziggy survive because he brought her back. That led to a chain of events that allowed Josh and Co. to figure out a plan to save Sam. That also meant that he had to then put Sam's name in the book. He had to really cover his tracks
01:05:01
Speaker
like all because he He let his feelings like he's feelings for somebody finally and you know if you think about it Like we don't see him with a family or anything like yeah, he's dedicated his life
01:05:17
Speaker
to keeping this family secret, this family legacy, and he sacrificed what life he would have had with Ziggy to get there. But Ziggy was his Achilles heel. And without her, they would not have found the hand. And without the hand, they would not have reunited it with the body.
01:05:40
Speaker
and be able to see the truth and see that Seraphir was really scapegoated to be this boogeyman, this Baba Yaga that haunts this community. I love that word, Baba Yaga. Ever since I heard it in John Wick, I was like... Oh, yeah. Well, Baba, you guys, is such a perfect comparison because in Slavic lore, she started out as this Slavic goddess.
01:06:10
Speaker
is the theory that was then post-Christianization and colonization of that area, also scapegoated into this villainous child, you know, baby stealing, child eating wish.
01:06:30
Speaker
And in every story, it still remains that she always kind of imparts some type of wisdom. She's a very chaotic, neutral force in the lore. So I think that's a very apt comparison. I always feel like whenever I read
01:06:47
Speaker
um stories about um women that are witches or like demon that are haunting and eating children and stealing your heart and stuff i always think that they're stories of just regular women who is just like
01:07:05
Speaker
I'm just not that into you. And then after that, their reputation were just literally just destroyed.
Societal Norms and Cultural Commentary
01:07:12
Speaker
I mean, seriously, 1666, being a lesbian and you're automatically a witch. There is no middle ground. They're like, yes, okay. So maybe, I mean, not even a perversion. You're like straight up or doing magic.
01:07:27
Speaker
Significant also, because at the point at which Solomon Good decided, the pack that he made, the first soul that he gave to the devil was the father of his romantic rival. Hannah Miller, we haven't talked about this yet, we're at 1666. We get to see all of the actors come back. Yes, from both 78 and 1994, they were all in 1666, which is pretty cool.
01:07:54
Speaker
Yeah, I think that was a really good effective shorthand, like it's a way to get everyone back, you know, and it's it's a way to make us feel familiar with these characters, get to do something different with them. But it's a way to also talk about generational trauma, like this, these are the ancestors of the descendants in 1994. And so when you it's a shorthand by seeing those faces, you can then trace
01:08:20
Speaker
like, all the problems down. Yeah, and you can kind of relate to them in a different way. I think a lot of, you know, I, it took me a second to get into the swing of the like, kind of old timey COO accent that they're putting on, like you kind of got to get into that, you got to just kind of let it happen. One of them was straight up Irish. Yeah, it's that kind of like the funky, like,
01:08:45
Speaker
pilgrim, not quite British, so sort of Irish, kind of like, you know, we're old-timey, you know? It was cute. But I think they then they committed to being Irish for some reason. And then I was like, oh, whatever. Oh, yeah. Like they hundred, like there's a lot of Irish in there. I guess the working class connotations, but like, yeah.
01:09:04
Speaker
I think a lot of stuff feels stiffer when it's done as a period piece because everyone talks different. It feels so far removed that it allows the viewer to absolve themselves of any culpability of like, see how far we've come. It's not like that now. We can't do that because we've seen all these people before and it's really effective because we don't spend that much time in 1666 and the pacing has to be
01:09:32
Speaker
It has to be really and that's probably why it's my favorite because I feel like we get into it. We tell the story Yeah, I like I think as far as like I have the most fun watching 1978 Yes, and it takes its time and it's fun and I love the way it's done it but I think that's the best like technically and for the way that it elevates what came before 1666 because it's so it's on it the beats come quick and
01:10:00
Speaker
But one of the things I loved was that we see the kids partying. They have this code word. What's the thing that they say? A full moon rises before nightfall. It's like, we must indulge. Something like indulge the fruit of the land. Good night to enjoy the fruits of the land. Yeah. Which is basically just shrooms. Right. They get these
01:10:23
Speaker
you know, spicy berries from like the wise woman who's played by, you know, nurse lane, it's for Dana Sparrow, whom I love. And she and of course, I thought it was interesting that the implication is like she was also ostracized from society because she got friendly with the Native Americans and she got, you know,
01:10:47
Speaker
which is so true for that time period too and for subsequent time period like anyone that steps outside of the like homogenous
01:11:04
Speaker
That too. Homogenous society to indulge in diversity and add some spice to this meal is ostracized because they don't want that. They want to keep things the same. I think they never make it quite clear about... I don't think that the film is trying to imply that
01:11:31
Speaker
What's her name? Um, the widow, is it widow lane? Um, she, I don't know what her, yeah, it's nurse lane, but she's playing like, I think they just call her the widow, but, um, maybe the widow lane, but the widow, like they, they never make it clear.
01:11:52
Speaker
Because Solomon Goode breaks in her hut, kills her, steals her book where he finds this ritual. I don't think it's meant to imply that she found that ritual from the Native Americans because that would not be a good thing to imply.
01:12:07
Speaker
And also because that's not in their mythology, that's not in their religion at all. And but but it's never made clear like maybe she, you know, it's it's the era of King James, you know, like, I don't know, maybe maybe he just found the like, Malice Maleficarum and just like, you know, basically like reverse engineer this ritual, whatever, but but it seemed like she already had that, like, because before he got
01:12:36
Speaker
the book. The book was already because, you know, Dina, who is basically in the body of Seraphir, sees that book in the hood the night they go and do shrooms, basically, or wild berries, and she's saying the name. And the lady is like, be careful. And I think they'd
01:12:55
Speaker
the widow knows what that is. Yeah. She knows the impact it could have and she warns her about it. And, you know, it's really interesting because it tells me that this woman is very knowledgeable about the craft. She's very knowledgeable about how to how like the supernatural and how those things work. And even with that knowledge, not once did she use it.
01:13:22
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. She understands that just because you can reach for that power doesn't mean that you should. Doesn't mean that you should. And she was killed for it because in a way, she was almost like the gatekeeper to stop that from falling into the hands of somebody who, one, doesn't really understand the implications of it.
Moral Complexities and Character Analysis
01:13:45
Speaker
And I really think that Solomon Goode
01:13:50
Speaker
maybe intended to just get this little bit of stuff for himself. And then at the end of the day created this burden that lasted for a generation because he didn't understand the ramifications of what he was doing and had no choice but to keep going because what was the alternative but to be consumed by the devil himself? Because the devil has to have his dues, right? Right. But it's like he keeps
01:14:17
Speaker
Putting it like putting it off putting that payment off. He keeps kind of like putting in it's like a loan that you never pay off So it comes kind of like it's like the Klarna that goes on forever. Yeah every few years. I refinance my home, you know Exactly. So it's like he keeps refinancing his deal at the expense of shady ciders and you know, it's very interesting because he could not like Solomon Good just could not accept like that he was a shitty farmer because it's not the problem isn't the land and
01:14:44
Speaker
Right. Like Sarah fears. Father said that, you know, they came there. The land was fertile. Like there was something there. Obviously, the the the tribe that was living locally was doing just fine. Didn't have any problems tilling Lance. Solomon Goode just sucked at it because he just sucked at it. He was born with a silver spoon in his mouth and he didn't care to learn maybe, but he couldn't accept that defeat. And he needed to succeed. He wanted the easy way out.
01:15:09
Speaker
And he also couldn't accept rejection because at this point, we find out, first of all, I love that teens in 1666 are getting high because that also is kind of low key. That is what happened with the Salem witchcraft trials. It's a bunch of girls partied in the woods and were given some
01:15:31
Speaker
stuff maybe by a woman, an indigenous woman to Chuba. And that's kind of like the start of the crucible too, where it's like they party, they got caught, and then they had to kind of like project everything else onto other people. And so, you know, I love that these teens are partying. Like it's a relatable teen partying scene. It's just what happens. They were doing it in 1666 as well. We forget that. We forget that they had merriment and joy.
01:15:58
Speaker
Yeah, it's not just suffering in misery and work. And like food turnips and God, you know. And so they had this like, that's also where Hannah Miller and Sarah Fier hook up. And they hear a rustle in the woods. They don't know who it is who's spying on them. It turns out it was Solomon Goode on his way back from killing the widow. He sees them in the woods. He's like, oh no.
01:16:24
Speaker
That is my girl. Right. Well, I can still get bae if I just ruin her girlfriend's reputation. So I'm going to sell out her father, the pastor. And so he writes, you know, Cyrus Miller in the thing. And the pastor was also a source of authority and respect in the community. And so I think, again, to be able to get that stature that he wanted.
01:16:52
Speaker
Yeah, he had to overthrow the current ruler. Yeah, because at that time, people were always putting their pastors and priests as leaders of the community. Yeah, because it's like their authority literally came from God. You know, and so like either you were the divine right absolute monarch or you, you know, were their proxy through the church.
01:17:13
Speaker
And so the only way he could kind of like get that power because he couldn't get the power by earning it literally. So he was like, all right, I'm going to overthrow the pastor. And it also just so happens that he is the father of my romantic rival. And so I don't have to do anything to her necessarily. Yeah, I just have to make it so she has no future. And unfortunately, that blows back on on Sarah, his, you know,
01:17:43
Speaker
girl, he's trying to wife up because, you know, word gets out that she's queer. And and then you cannot be queer in 1666, guys. No, you were thinking maybe, but especially not on the same day that also like all the crops are literally molding on the table and the livestock is going cannibalistic.
Future Inclusivity and Social Messages
01:18:06
Speaker
And also when your dog
01:18:11
Speaker
Sorry to our listeners, but it ends up- Does the dog die? Yeah, the dog does. In doing so, literally poisons the well, and poisons the well metaphorically against Sarah. Yes, and literally. It's her dog. Yeah.
01:18:30
Speaker
So he makes it look real bad for her. So she does run to him. And then by running to him, finds out the truth about him and things get real violent.
01:18:44
Speaker
yeah oh yeah so yeah it's um this trilogy is wild like like i said like starting off in 1994 i was just like oh this is cheesy this is just taking tropes from already well-established um you know cult movies that are already a favorite of mine um but you gotta have to push through because what it really like you said at the beginning of this podcast like what
01:19:14
Speaker
What it really is doing is laying out the clues, the pieces where when you go to 78 and you go to 1666, you have to go all the way back to 94 again because you're like, wait a second, something was said here that's really relevant over here. If we're talking about themes here, it's like,
01:19:35
Speaker
For me, I saw 1661 all the way in 94 as the story of America and the story of how the marginalized group is created.
01:19:52
Speaker
and how easily the marginalized group is created, and they're vilified. And sometimes the things that we consider bad luck, the things that we consider curses, is actually the hands of those who are prospering from
01:20:12
Speaker
bad things happening to them because and even in this society we live in now you know it's there are the rich the few who continue to be rich continue to thrive because they're paying their employees very little they are allowing crime and poverty to thrive in certain communities so if those people are so busy fighting each other and so busy hungry they don't actually have to fight the rich
01:20:39
Speaker
You know, and it's just seeing that played out in three very simple films as a curse.
01:20:48
Speaker
Like, it's one of those things where, like, as someone who wants to write movies, it's like, this is the shit that I'm trying to do. Right. It's so it's so ambitious, like it and it truly becomes more than the sum of its parts by the end, because like it starts off like, as it says, lowbrow trash, like, and let's be real, when you go into an R.L. style, like if you have any knowledge of goosebumps or the original of your street, you want the lowbrow trash. It's cool.
01:21:16
Speaker
You're not trying to get educated here. You don't want to get lectured and then you get there and it is absolutely the history of America because it's saying what it's saying really is like it forces you to look and it really does.
01:21:32
Speaker
to look at the people who are impacted. And it's basically saying like, here are all of the things behind the scenes. Here's all of the deliberate structural effort that is put into keeping people down, keeping people marginalized. And has been going on for years and years and years. And then you also see in like, you know, like I confessed earlier how I really was just like, I felt some kind of way about fear at the beginning.
01:21:59
Speaker
You also see how complicit you are in the system. Up until I got to 1666, I was just like, man, this is your fear. She needs to chill out. It's like, girl, you've been dead for 300 years. You're still out here with your beef. You need to just let it go. You don't know anyone here. Yeah. In my head, I was like,
01:22:18
Speaker
who did you dirty? Who hurt you? Fast forward or go backwards to 1666 and there it was. Solomon Goode out here literally doing Sarah Dirty and that trust is broken. Right. And he literally also allowed the
01:22:36
Speaker
generation of children to get murdered and that's also significant that like it's always kids that are dying like it's yeah it's the next generation it's the teens it's the pre-teens that are the victims all of the potentials all the potential all the potential for any type of future yeah is is just cold and it's it's it's cold so that the sunny vailers can live in prosperity yes and without ever having to you know they might get
01:23:04
Speaker
kind of they look at the TV and they're like, Oh, what a shame. What a pity. Like it sure stinks. All of that violence that happens down in shady side, but they never have to. Yeah, they must just be cursed. They, you know, they're just bad to the bone. Sorry, this is my old lady voice. I like, I like the quiver. That's a very nice, uh, old lady on a motorcycle, I think. Yeah, bad to the bone. But yeah, like, it's like they, um,
01:23:34
Speaker
It's like the victim blaming that goes into figuring like, well, what do you expect to happen? There's something about these people where it's just part of who they are. It's in their DNA. And that also has been the same rhetoric used to justify eugenics, all sorts of horrible brutality and violence. Violence in certain communities, why there's drug use in certain communities and all that. The whole idea of white flight.
01:24:03
Speaker
Yeah, and things like that. But, you know, and then another theme that is very much prevalent here is just, you know, like I've mentioned throughout that whenever a woman stands up to a powerful man, whenever a woman rejects a man, whenever a woman is not even interested in a man, like just being a lesbian, the systematic destruction of her
01:24:31
Speaker
reputation of her life. It's almost disproportionate to her response. Simply saying no. I think he plays Kurt in 1994, but he's one of the pilgrims and he's trying to grab
01:24:52
Speaker
Hannah and he has this boner and she simply is just like, you know, and of course Dina, who's also seraphir in 1666, like makes fun of him. And he just spins the tale of, I know who the witch is. I saw them dance. You know, he makes up the story. And then you have like... And saying that she tempted him. She tempted him.
01:25:13
Speaker
And of course, men believe other men. And that also feeds into the frenzy of who the witches are. Because at first when they pick the witches, they pick Hannah and Sarah. And then they tell them to check all the other girls for a witch's mark. So then you have these scenes of like,
01:25:33
Speaker
the other girls in town basically being violated as people search for their witches mark. Exactly. And sometimes pointing a finger at one woman, you point a finger at all women, you know, like you and you have these names and ways in which you destroy a woman's reputation. Any woman that comes after that is afraid to speak up, but then they're also viewed in a similar light. And so it's very smart and really interesting how
01:26:02
Speaker
These series also tells the story of the destruction man can wrath on women who literally stand up. Or just trying to exist also. Just trying to exist and just kind of like, you know, let's be friends. Who have the nerve to tell the truth. Yeah. Who have the nerve to tell the truth, be different, stand up for themselves.
01:26:27
Speaker
not cater to them. Not cater to them. And so I really love that. And it's so apropos since like this episode is going to drop, you know, this month, which is Women's History Month. And it's just, you know, Women's History Month is just filled with all of these stories of women who said, no, I'm going to do something. I'm going to be heard. I'm going to stand up for myself. So it's perfect in that way.
01:26:51
Speaker
It's great. And you get, I think there's something really heartbreaking and relatable to where, you know, the scene where like after the rumors are flying about Sarah, fear hooking up with Hannah Miller, like Sarah's own father is like, you know, this is my failure. Yeah. You know, maybe if you'd had like a mother to really raise you and show you basically how to perform gender roles. Yes. Like there's always been a there's always been a strangeness to you. And I think that that was the most
01:27:21
Speaker
Chilling and for me a very accurate like yeah portrayal of how homophobia plays out with us parents who were like we love you you know, it's my failure that you exist this way and it's like I It's my fault. I raised you like a boy when I should have raised you as a girl and I just didn't know what you know, right and that's harder to
01:27:42
Speaker
Right. And the way that Sarah, like Sarah and Hannah start to believe like maybe we are messed up. Maybe it is. Maybe we started the curse. Yeah. Right. And that's the way that marginalized people are made to feel like like they're the monster. Yeah. You know, and because of the way that society has like twists itself to to make them out to be that. And that's also I think why it's it's very smartly cast and very appropriate to have like
01:28:11
Speaker
Dita and and Josh be these heroes You have you have the black heroes of the story both of whom survive at least in 1994 right is a the Baby lesbians which are like like the when I realized that they did not bury our gays people We didn't know I feel like a certain sense of relief where I was like as soon as I realized what this was doing and the fact that That them being gay was so central to the plot
01:28:41
Speaker
I felt better because I was like, they're not going to kill her. They're not. If she shows up in all three of these, they will let the lesbian live. And they did. And it's very important that they did that. They were like, hey, let's talk about intersectionality, guys. Let's talk about poverty and all these other intersections of marginalization and how they play into that. And that's why it's very smartly cast.
01:29:08
Speaker
It's very smartly told as a story. I mean, it's also telling us too, like the message, at least I'm not, I don't know what Lee was thinking, but the message to me is saying that the future is black and brown. The future is
01:29:31
Speaker
LGBTQ, like these are the people who are going to break down this system. They've always been here. They've always been here. They're the ones who are going to expose the truth. They're the ones who are going to be the truth tellers. And, you know, I don't know if that was her intent, but I feel like that's the effect that she's had with this.
01:29:51
Speaker
I think it's got to be because the only people who ever get close to finding out the secret and who ever bleed near Seraphir are the Shady Siders because they are all the wisdom ones whose blood is shed. Think about
01:30:07
Speaker
In the beginning, in 94, before they crash, before they get near the body of Sarah Fier, there is a moment where the bus is going by and they're going to maybe drop the keg on them and then they drop it by accident because Dina starts to bleed from the nose before she even gets near the body. Just because she's close to the truth. Yeah. Sarah is reaching out from grave. It's like, hey, you
01:30:32
Speaker
right and Sarah I think reaches out to people who would understand so like there are like Kate is not the one who bled in that snow because Kate has one foot out of shady side is trying to leave Dina is the one who's kind of like you're gonna be stuck here forever and so that happened and that happens with Dina with Ziggy and Alice because Alice in 78 also has the visions and also sees
01:30:58
Speaker
She touches the hand. And so like they're the ones who feel like they're lost causes. So it's Sarah reaching out to the person, I think that she finds the deepest kinship with closest, like who's most jaded in cynical and who maybe might be most likely to believe the truth if they see it, because none of the other shady ciders, none of the sunny veilers bled when they passed that area. They didn't feel it.
01:31:26
Speaker
You know and sam only bled when she got closer to the body physically so it feels like like really sarah fears hand reaching out to grab the person who is closest and of course that person is gonna be the person who's most shot on by their society.
01:31:43
Speaker
Yes. Because they're the
Trilogy's Reception and Viewing Experience
01:31:45
Speaker
coolest. And who's kind of open to hearing the message because I think everybody else is kind of like consumed with their everyday life and all that stuff. They don't want to hear it. Yeah, they either don't want to hear it or they're just numb to it, you know? And then you have these people who are just kind of
01:32:04
Speaker
they're ready to receive, they're kind of ready to reach out and just accept who they are. And in a way they have one foot in the grave already. They really do have one foot in the grave with the way they're going. Okay, well then I think that
01:32:19
Speaker
We've covered so much ground and I really, really hope that this inspires people to go watch it. I will say that when I started this, I was like, maybe I'm giving this two and a half stars. But with this trilogy, I've been given a solid four. What are your thoughts?
01:32:37
Speaker
I was going to say, I think it's a solid four. I think that when you look at it as a whole, what it accomplishes, because there are things I could pick apart with all of the films, but they do get better. As an experience, I think that's so rare to find a trilogy that is plotted out. Think about it. They did a trilogy of solid films that tie into each other, that are interwoven, that
01:33:04
Speaker
you all of this stuff and even though it's very blatant, they say everything in a way that is unsubtle enough that you cannot come out of this misinterpreting the message. It's very unequivocal on where it stands.
01:33:19
Speaker
socially. And then it also does this with featuring a central lesbian couple. And like, this was originally going to be released in theaters. So like, I think that they really fared like it worked out because
01:33:37
Speaker
I think the fact that the pandemic kind of dashed their hopes of being released in theaters worked in their favor. Because I think the way that it got released on Netflix is exactly what it needed to be. It got all of the drums up a hype. Yeah. And I think they got them every few weeks. And so that way, it was still fresh in your mind. But you also had access to the previous one. So you could go back and really re-watch it, re-absorb yourself, and see all the things that you might have missed. Right.
01:34:07
Speaker
I love that it was a complete trilogy. It didn't feel like a trilogy that they were figuring out along the way because sometimes, you know, you do like one film, you're like, we're doing a sequel. And you haven't really thought about that. I've seen a George Lucas films. I know, you know, like we've we've all seen. We were like, you didn't know that you were going to make that this was going to be successful. Yeah, you know, because the way they were like looking at each other
01:34:33
Speaker
Right. But they set everything up in this one. They set off Martin and how in the first film, he's being literally framed by the sheriff for spray painting them all. And then the sheriff is like, no, Martin, these are my spray paint cans. And then he finds out that they actually are. Side note, I like
01:34:55
Speaker
I like how they roll up to him at the end and they're like, hey, you want to help us kill Sheriff Good? Well, no context. He's like, no, let me get my coat. Like, I love that before he even finds out what's going on. He's in. He's in. He's a treasure. A hundred percent committed. And he makes it out. Yeah.
01:35:14
Speaker
comedic value. So yeah, I will say so like all of these things when you when you figure how rare that is in this industry and how they like for me, everything it needed to be on the level that it's playing at like it does that and more so for me that I would normally give it a four and then that elevates it to a 4.5 for me just for what
Soundtrack as Narrative Device
01:35:39
Speaker
it is.
01:35:39
Speaker
4.5 awesome well thank you so much Veronica like it was I feel like we could talk about this movie like forever and ever and ever and ever like you know like we fit so much into such a short time but that only means that you guys have to go watch this and
01:35:59
Speaker
you have to watch it in the order in case you weren't aware part one is 1994 part two is 1978 part three is 1666 but don't worry you don't get stuck in the past they return you all the way back to 1994 for the conclusion but it's so worth it i broke it up over the weekend i got it done and it's it's lovely it's fun get your gals get your
01:36:39
Speaker
throws you in and you get something completely new. You think you know what you're going into, it gives you something completely different and it does so with a very immersive and gorgeous score. I would say all of the cheese that you get is worth it. It's not going to curdle there, just embrace the cheese. It's going to sell on top of that pie like a really good pizza.
01:36:44
Speaker
guys together and just go for it.
01:37:06
Speaker
Speaking of which, I definitely need to go back and check out all of the music because they picked some bangers. They did. They really did. I have two favorite needle drops that happen. I guess one for every film. In 1994, I make a lot of fun of the cheesy needle drops. My favorite one is when they're
01:37:29
Speaker
they get to the hospital and Killing Me Softly is playing the Roberta Flack version. And it just feels like such a funny and mundane thing and diegetically playing also. And the second one is bookended by two versions of Man Who Sold the World. First is the Nirvana cover and the David Bowie original at the end.
01:37:51
Speaker
And it's so beautifully bookmarked and it really, to me, it works on two levels because it's talking about Ziggy because the man who sold the world is rooted in the story, in the other song of the man who wasn't there. Yeah. So you have Ziggy, her dog is Major Tom. So all of the boat references, but the song itself is also talking about
01:38:15
Speaker
like looking in the mirror and it works with Ziggy being this agoraphobe and seeing the man who wasn't there. And then it also works because it's talking about Nick Goode, the man who sold the world. The very, very last needle drop in the credits of the third one, which is the pixie song, Mr. Greaves, which is a little bit about eco disaster and all of this other stuff that
01:38:42
Speaker
you know, the environments that we create that kind of feed into themselves in this destruction and doom. So like, for all I make fun of the needle drops, they are basically the writer citations. I mean, they work, they work. You know, sometimes cheese is good, like, but these ones do work.
01:39:02
Speaker
they might be on the nose, but they're, yes, trying to communicate something in the way that is not just telling you. So that's it. But yes, thank you so much. I love your perspective on this. I love that we're able to bring in your film studies and myth studies. I've been dying to talk about it with you.
01:39:27
Speaker
So great and thank you to everyone who listened today like I hope that you were gonna go check out this movies and Learn something new and maybe there's maybe there's a theme in there that we missed and you want to share you can just like go on our it's my Instagram the stream Queen so stream the Queens and Tell us what you think about it. Remember you can subscribe to this podcast You can get notified when our next episode drops. So until the next time Thank you so much
01:39:55
Speaker
And, uh, can we just talk about our next move?