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Terminal Island (1973) dir. Stephanie Rothman
95 Plays8 months ago
In this episode, we talk about one of Stephanie Rothman's exploitation movie, Terminal Island, and how she was able imbue a narrative about societal issues.
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Transcript
Introduction and Opening Remarks
00:00:00
Speaker
This is a song to all the ladies. I am big. It's the pictures that got small.
Humor and Advice
00:00:14
Speaker
All this way for my advice I feel like Oprah.
Hollywood and Terminal Island Introduction
00:00:20
Speaker
fasten your seat belts I'm not going to worry about if people accept me or not. I'm going to make Hollywood wherever I am at.
Terminal Island Background
00:00:33
Speaker
40 miles off our coast lies the final solution. The San Bruno Maximum Security Detention Center, better known as Terminal Island. The inmates of this bleak island prison are all convicted of the same crime. Murder in the first degree. The arrival of a new inmate. The delivery of the bare necessities for survival. These are Terminal Island's only contact with the outside world.
Screen Queens Podcast and Hosts
00:01:00
Speaker
Hi, everybody, and welcome back to the Screen Queens, where we discuss the selection of movies directed by women going back to the silent era and coming all the way to contemporary modern releases. I am your host, Topia Leiteo Adibo, and I'm here with you my co-host, Cee. Hey. Hey, how's it going? It is going. You have on the best shirt for today's episode.
Discussion on Terminal Island Film and Exploitation Genre
00:01:23
Speaker
Thank you. I, you know, I feel like we have been on an island kick, you know, we did Bergman Island. yeah They were going to be talking about Terminal Island from 1973, directed by Stephanie Rockman. So I felt that it was apropos to wear an island shirt, even though this is not an island I would vacation
Exploration of Exploitation Films and Grad School Insights
00:01:41
Speaker
in. ever. No, no, you would not. Okay. slide the The Thrift Gods came through on this one in Goodwill and this is like four bucks from the men's section. It's giving Jimmy Buffett, Margaritaville, and I really love it. um But yeah, so Terminal Island was one that I selected. ah How did you feel about
Blaxploitation and Low-Budget Films
00:02:04
Speaker
it?
00:02:04
Speaker
so you know I love an exploitation film because it's its own version of camp or is camp, perhaps. um So I did have a kick in grad school. I think I was just so stressed out. I watched everything that Pam Gray ever did. And I watched like Blackula and stuff like that. And while I'm not sure you would call this black exploitation, but it still exploitation film. Yes. And it's absurd in that way. is I think i if
Stephanie Rothman's Struggles and Innovations
00:02:37
Speaker
my understanding is like exploitation film, k it was kind of the parent of black exploitation. It's like we took exploitation and we made it black. And the reason is because they were more like those movies were more likely to be made because literally it was like a buck fifty to make this movie. like Exactly. nope
00:02:56
Speaker
spending a lot and they were just churning it out. And the goal was, um, and if you're not aware of what an exploitation movie is, like it's usually low budget, but the, the studios and the people who are putting up the money, they just require that it has a bunch of nude scenes. Like me he they want they want asses. They, they probably want more nude women than they want nude men. Um, there's, there's just gratuitous violence. Um, yeah
00:03:26
Speaker
oh ah you know it's it's It's just shy of a porno, is what it is. um And so that's exploitation movies. but And in black exploitation,
Rothman's Narrative Techniques
00:03:37
Speaker
which all of you are probably familiar with, or some of you will be, you know, you're a Friday Foster. um The movies with Pam Grier in it, Carmen Jones. jones and air common joe I think there is a Carmen Jones. There you go. there is a your patrick out There's just a bunch, Blacula, like you mentioned. um So those were ways in which like you could get funded and and get your stories out there. um And something that Stephanie Rothman, we'll talk about the director for a split second here, and something that Stephanie Rothman
00:04:13
Speaker
struggled with was was a breaking into um the industry because back in that time, but were not that i mean there were very, very rarely any women making either fetching coffee behind the can you know the camera or you were the star of the movie, but to write stories and direct them was something that was unheard of. They just did not think the women knew how to tell stories or that they knew anything about directing or that it was even worthwhile. And so, you know, for a while she worked for free. um for I want to say it was, was it Richard Corman?
00:04:54
Speaker
Roger Corman, a director, you and his thing was like, come work for me. i and free all yeah you know you You'll start from you know the very beginning. You'll learn all of the stuff. I'm not going to pay you or I won't pay you that much.
Plot Overview and Societal Reflection
00:05:10
Speaker
um You have a film you want to make? I'll fund the film, but I'm not paying you, right? And it was, you know, but apparently he wasn't really much of a mentor. He was just like, i will I'm giving you resources. I'm giving you opportunity. It's up to you what you do with it. um So for her, the only way that she could really get stuff that she wanted made was to do exploitation movies. But what I love about it when I, you know,
00:05:38
Speaker
looked at some of her interviews is that she didn't really just want it to be exploitation. She was like, I want to infuse some narratives in there. I want to talk about contentious social issues. um You know, she wanted to use violence in a stylistic way where she still met the requirements for it to be exploitation, but it had a purpose. Right. It made sense. um And in this particular film, and we'll talk about the plot we're dealing with violent people.
Justice System Critique
00:06:09
Speaker
um So it makes sense for there to be a lot of violence. um but she wanted to put the meaning behind it. And so just for me picking this director um felt like a really good way to see, um to watch an exploitation film that had a point. okay Yeah. Yeah. She was tackling quite a bit in there. Like there were references to um Manson.
00:06:35
Speaker
it is um There's references to people, being falsely accused, right? who Folks who are defending themselves, but they still get the maximum penalty and then those people are black people. ah So there was a lot going on, violence against women's bodies. yeah Still with under the umbrella of exploitation, which yeah it it gets across with almost teeters on comedy sometimes because of the nature of that genre. yeah and the style of it. Yeah. and um But if you can look past that, you can really, like you say, pick up on some of um some of the nuances and what in the story that she's trying to tell, right? Because um you know she's talking about the prison prison industrial system. um She talks about
00:07:26
Speaker
I mean the movie's talking about the death penalty and and that that's how the movie starts off. It's like there's this really short documentary that's being made and in it they kind of give you um ah kind of a really shorthand of like the world you're in and the word we're in is that dead the death penalty has been abolished. A lot of people had different opinions about whether that was the right thing to do and not the right thing to do And so the goal was, if we're not killing people, what do we do with
Carmen's Arrival and Survival Challenges
00:07:56
Speaker
them? And so they come up with this idea to put everybody who's killed somebody, regardless of the circumstances, here on an island. Now, that really calls up a lot of questions as you're watching it. It's like, okay, well, if I killed my abusive husband, I'm going to end up on this island. If I'm a serial killer, I'm going to end up on this island. If I am involved in like, uh,
00:08:18
Speaker
gang violence, I'm gonna end up on this island. um You know, it's just, yeah you don't, there isn't a nuance in how you end up in the island, particularly if it's like manslaughter and negligence. I think because we have like a doctor in there who, like, he didn't mean to kill a patient, but a patient died, so now he's on this island. Exactly. Exactly. And i I can see your lawyer brain working in that moment. Right. Yeah. Like, let me see that contract. Let me see that contract for a second. And so we we start off our character with Carmen, who, you know, literally is escorted from the courthouse into a car onto a boat to be dumped on this island. And she's told to sign this document, which again, my lawyer brain was like, first of all, let me read this. know i'm not goingnna I'm not going to get dumped on the island without reading every single bit of this contract.
Survival Dynamics and Tribal Society
00:09:11
Speaker
and that you know Essentially, that she's told by signing this, you forfeit your life, you basically acknowledge that you are legally dead. um and I don't think she signed the paper. She was like, you're going to dump me on here anyway.
00:09:24
Speaker
yeah Why am I signing this piece of paper? um and And then she gets, you know, put ah put off on the island. And now she is on her own and has to navigate all of the different personalities and people that she's going to come across on this island. And if I remember correctly, she's given like a little sack of stuff, like maybe a rope, a knife, a stick. Yeah. On this island, they have to make their own shelter, they have to get their own food.
Tom Selleck's Character and Social Dynamics
00:09:58
Speaker
So as people tend to do, most human beings and and even animals, they started to congregate and there are teams, basically. um Little tribes. Little tribes, if you will.
00:10:13
Speaker
yeah And so she meets the beautiful Tom Selleck. You wouldn't even know it was Tom Selleck. You wouldn't even know it was Tom Selleck. For a split second there, I was like, that man looks familiar. And he is doing something to me. And then like I think halfway through the movie, I was like, is that Tom Selleck? Yeah. It's like, my my brother, what are you doing in this movie? Yeah. And this has to be one of Tom Selleck's first part. date Yeah, um I think so. what six foot five something ridiculous he's got a nice little beard and he is Dr. Milford um and that I thought it was interesting very early on when the movie is being introduced that like documentary team yeah talk about
00:11:03
Speaker
A lot, I saw a definite parallel with reality television as it stands today. They call him the character for bored housewives. They're like, oh yeah, you have your vixen. You got your character for bored housewives. You got your firecracker. You got your whatever, whatever. And what makes him boring is that he's just an honest dude. Yeah, he just happened to kill somebody. Honest dude. Yeah, he's going to kill somebody. and So he meets her on the island, like he's up at the top and he sees her and convinces her. First of all, he tells her, like, you just stepped into hell, right? To get used to that. FYI. And then he convinces her to join this there' little village of convicts. Which I'm just like, okay, first of all, sir, you knew what the situation was like.
Gender Roles and Societal Replication
00:11:56
Speaker
yeah Okay. And if you're as nice a doctor as you're saying, why would you tell her to go join all of these guys that, you know, they're a varying degree of criminality. yeah um And not only that, they apparently set up a little harem for all the women that showed up. so
00:12:15
Speaker
jack The women and now sex workers for all of these, because again, i we probably didn't point this out. This is a co-ed situation. Yes, we didn't think that out. This is a co-ed situation. This is a co-ed situation. And the assumption that when men and women are put in this situation together, that the kind of bigger, larger, gruffier alphas or whatever will dominate the women. So they kind of try to replicate society on that island. And I was just like,
00:12:51
Speaker
in more egregious terms too, right? Very, very much more egregious. Women are doing most of the labor because they figured out that they need to farm and that they need to grow their food. Exactly. And the women are doing that. They're also sex workers. They're also cooking. They're cooking. So just a modern day woman then. Basically. I was like, if we can go off on a tangent and I hope that your lawyer brain can bring us back, one of my thoughts was like, if this was not a co-ed situation, And you had an island for women on one side of the bay, and an island for men on the other side of the bay. Yeah. In our most stereotypical terms,
Single-Gender Island Speculation
00:13:30
Speaker
and we're talking about cis people at large, right? Yes, cis people. Cis people in our most stereotypical terms, how would the women's island be? How would you, how do you think that would be? Oh my God, we'd have like cocktails on our knees.
00:13:46
Speaker
um We would have I see I think and I based on the characters that were there a lot of the women had They were educated. They were they weren't just like you know dumb people that just ended up committing dumb crimes. like Some of them knew chemistry. so like They knew they they had knowledge. So I think that those women set up by themselves, not I think they would it would have been a little more egalitarian. um And I think that they would have focused primarily on
00:14:25
Speaker
like life saving stuff, like food, shelter. um And i I also think that they probably would have had schedules and shifts, you know? Yes, they would have. we been true We are organized in every facet, like, you know, um and who knows, there might have been some ah girl on girl act show. We don't know. We didn't have the opportunity. but move island You know, the
Hierarchy and Societal Reflection
00:14:52
Speaker
freedom. When women have freedom to be themselves, like a lot of things that society requires of, we just let go of. like know Who we're supposed to be with, how we're supposed to act, whether we're supposed to shave our armpits or not. like I just feel like they would they would have probably felt the most free you see on an island by themselves. see here Agreed. and agree I think about that too. i think
00:15:17
Speaker
I kind of think it wouldn't have been so bad. No, no, it'd be nice actually. Like I said, cocktails and Wednesdays, cocktails on Wednesdays, film Fridays, over here, right? And um coming back to the movie, I highly doubt that they would be in like booty shorts and cowboy boots as they are throughout majority of this film. I also seen that that probably was a ah exploitation decision. um Yeah. Yeah. A requirement because from what I gathered, like Rossman would have made other choices. But but I also think it it made sense when you're dealing with this current situation that men would want them in like skimpy outfits. Absolutely. um You know, for the male gaze. Whereas, you know, like when Carmen Chabot Island, she has long sleeves on, she's got hand on you know She's ready to do the work. She's ready to survive. She thinks that's all that they need to do is survive. right She had no... um
00:16:20
Speaker
She was not like prepared at all for like the sex work. No idea of it. But even if you weren't prepared for the sex, what you could at least have been prepared for the fact that there were a bunch of criminals on the island. Like you walked in there, you're like, hello, my brother. Like I'm like, girl, this is not church. This is a prison. ah Yes. OK, like ah you saw the first black dude and you were
Carmen's Survival Tale
00:16:41
Speaker
like, what's up? And you you don't know his status whatsoever. OK, like you need to see what is his name, Monk? well Also talk about another beautiful man. I mean, he is played by Roger Mosley, who went on to play like a lot of police officers and pilots and stuff. Oh, yeah. maybe He was a big deal. He was a big deal. Yeah. um And yeah, so like I going back to going back to Rothman, I think one of her goals was, like we said,
00:17:11
Speaker
If I have to do these kind of movies, I'm going to make it make sense. i mean I'm going to throw in some stuff that's going to get your thinking. And, um you know, she really if you look at the movie from the beginning to the end, and we'll talk about the ending ah when we go through this movie is the idea of. you know, can human beings, can people create um an egalitarian and community-based society without violence um when you just take them out of society, right? Because when we start in the beginning, there's this idea of replicating the strongest
00:17:54
Speaker
ah using the weakest and keeping that power, right? And then when we sort of get to the end, after that sort of alpha toxic maleness has been eliminated from the equation, you get sort of what looks like a very supportive, um egalitarian, less patriarchal setup. um And I know that that's something that was like, important to her and it's something that is part of her ideals and her beliefs of the ideal world. And so, like I said, if you kind of can look past and the exploitation part of it, like it's actually a very interesting social study. It is. And so we figure out that Bobby, who's our Manson of the group,
00:18:40
Speaker
like Manson, not in terms of murder necessarily, but in terms of looks,
Prison Industrial System Commentary
00:18:46
Speaker
first of all. But also like manipulation, because if you look at the man is like, man is a twig. He's not, he's not blunt, he's not stacked, but he somehow managed to accumulate power and manipulate people who look bigger than him and tougher than him to do his bidding. And that was very much Manson, right? like Yeah, he absolutely. You know, he was very swathe. He was able to like talk you into things. Um, the haircut probably didn't help his case either. Um, but yeah, that was, that was definitely her Bobby. Yeah. So Bobby's our, our nutty, uh, leader and monk is his wild dog. That's what I like to call him. Yeah. no And so muck, when Carmen enters the scene,
00:19:37
Speaker
She's kind of talking and trying to figure out what it is. And it takes no time for Munk to kind of like pick her up and toss her over the shoulder and wrestle around and put his boot on her neck. I think. Yeah. Put his boot on her neck. Yeah. He literally put the boot on her neck and he orders everyone to get back to work. And he tells her that he'll break her neck and he takes all of her belongings. And ah in my notes, I wrote, this is the story of all black women. See, girl, I was about to say that I was violated. Yeah. Everyone's watching. And no, everyone's watching. She's calling for help. And first of all, I was like, I mean, I was like my sister in price. This is a prison.
00:20:21
Speaker
Who is going to help you? These are a bunch of convicted killers. Where did you think you were? i love mention and that and to big i love it yellow Like my sister in christ like like and the minute the minute I even knew what this island about I was like, you know, and she's just like strolling in there. But, it you know, not to make this like, um, I feel like you Black women's experience sometimes with Black men are also like that, not just so society at large, but even within the Black community. It does feel like people use our necks and our backs to elevate
Critique of Gender Roles and Labor
00:21:02
Speaker
themselves. right you know We come up with all of the ideas. We are entrepreneurial. We take care of our family.
00:21:11
Speaker
And that was so symbolic. I don't know that if, I don't know if Rothman did that intentionally, but I think that if you are, you know, I'm sure it was worse back in the seventies because we're still experiencing it now, right? And some relationships and seeing that I'm just like, man, this feels like a very timeless symbolism that's going on here. um So that was, that was smart. It was, it was very smart. And so she's immediately thrown into a little hut with the rest of the women. um And she vows, like, when I break out, I'm going to kill this motherfucker. I was like, that's my girl, stick with it. I'm going to kill him, which is also what got her on this island. And i was and that the first thing I thought to myself was like, girl, you think the first one who ever said that? Let's see how you are after three weeks. like that Then we'll know. Then we'll know. And Moc comes in and assigns them basically sexual partners. like And they all get somewhere between four to six each.
00:22:12
Speaker
a night ah after after working all day in the field yeah and building things like it's like when are they supposed to sleep and i think someone even mentioned that i was like why are we supposed to sleep when are we supposed to sleep because i think we said i can't remember if we said it earlier but the women another um as we're talking about the things that are coming out in this movie when you look past the exploitation of it all like the that the style of the genre Um, the women are doing all the labor.
Power Dynamics Analysis
00:22:39
Speaker
Yeah, they're doing all of that. They're doing all the labor There was one or two guys who were helping yeah farming or cooking or whatever But all the others were doing nothing. It was the manosphere's dream, right? It was like, you know simply by being born a man I am higher right and I feel like the men who were
00:23:03
Speaker
were helping it was more of a punishment it was like it was more like you have upset the king right exactly and your punishment is helping the women because the women also ate last they served the men food that they grew that they picked that they cooked Well, after they've done all the other manual labor, whether it was fixing a roof or building this, um, Oh, what was it that he wanted them to build? Um, it was like not a gun shelter. Bobby wanted them built for, for his protection. right um in case something happened because where we're starting to hear that there there are other groups around right there's another group around that um you know could potentially like attack them um as is normal in
00:23:54
Speaker
In any non-structured way, humans will get into tribes and they'll float off, right? yeah um And so, and so Kerman is having to experience um this world, but then even within the group of ah women that are now sex workers, There is even hierarchy. There is a bunny who is like Bobby's favorite and she gets whatever part of that that she wants. And she, you know, she does. She only has to have sex with him. She doesn't have sex with anybody else. So there is a hierarchy there. And then there's also infighting because again, when you're in a situation where everything's been taken away from you, um, You are like, I need to get what I can for myself and I don't want this new person coming in.
Character Analysis and Stereotypes
00:24:45
Speaker
you know, taking it away. So that was also like another dynamic. If you think if you're thinking about like just how many layers the patriarchy creates for women, it's like, where where are you? And then Carmen is like, I just got here. So I'm like right at the bottom. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm just trying to figure this out. And she's picking up basically through Carmen's experience. We're learning about this island that's a currently sand. So she has to wash clothes one day. I believe. And she's washing clothes. The good old fashioned way, you know, on a rock well near a stream. Yeah. And she's in there washing clothes. And even I think she said, like, we have to do all the work all the time. All the time. And then just sitting there. And they're just sitting there. A fight breaks out and someone is killed. His body is thrown off a cliff. And that's when they are ambushed by the rival
00:25:44
Speaker
Yeah, group. I was going to say gang, but yeah, it seems like it seems because I was thinking about this, too. It seemed like an ambush until you realize that it was some form of a rescue attempt. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. You attempt to get the women who are washing the clothes. Mm hmm. Yeah. So hashtag manner allies in some cases. In some cases. and you know And these men would definitely, they treated them much better. They killed the the men from the other group that will they were basically guarding these women and you know took them off to, and they you know they they had less of a setup than Um, the first group, like they are constantly on the move because they they want to get attacked. They don't have any huts. They don't have, they eat from the, from nature. Um, they don't stay in one place for too long. And so it's definitely not as cozy it in quote cozy as the first camp. Right. But the difference is like the women are treated better. They're treated almost like
00:26:48
Speaker
equals, right? Yes. You get to be part of the conversation about what to do next and where to go next and how to fight back.
Joy's Character and Sexual Autonomy
00:26:56
Speaker
And I think the, um, like what I wrote down was like, you know, Steph, Stephanie knew what she was doing when she set up these stereotypes for the men and the women at the beginning, right? Because it's like, okay, you come in, whatever. And the idea was to intrigue and surprise the audience when the characters start to upend those expectations, right? When they start to say, um no, women can actually do this and women can actually be planners and strategize and um and men can be supportive of women and they can be gentle with them and they can you know let them lead. and you know i think And that's the way in which he kind of gained a little more control of this movie to make it more than just exploitation.
00:27:42
Speaker
Absolutely. And you see that with um another character, Joy. ah Joy is our siren. Basically, she's the foxy naded. I don't remember why Joy is there. I don't think they ever say. Obviously, she would have killed somebody. But Joy is kind of, she's like, well, we're dead, so we might as well do it anyway. Yeah. And she flirts how she wants to flirt. She sleeps where she wants to sleep sleep. Yeah. um And even within this new group, there's a guy named Dylan who attempts to to rate joy. Yeah. And the other men in the group come and step in. Yeah. Yeah. And let me just pause here for a minute. You just you just hear what what she just said, men.
00:28:28
Speaker
I just need you to digest this real quick. If you see a man behaving in a way that is on towards and on gentlemanly, it is completely okay to step in and tell this mofo, no, this is not how you treat a woman. This is 1973 guys, okay? It's not that hard. And it's not hard in 2024 to stand up for women and not stand by weird ass creepy men. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
00:29:00
Speaker
upon yeah they won They won't listen. They won't listen. It's like the Spring Queens. they they I know. No, no. um but so But it continues on. And I believe the Dylan guy, he's not punished in that moment, but he is punished later. Joy gets him later
Cooperation Between Genders
00:29:20
Speaker
on. in Yeah. And Amanda, she get him later. does She get him. She she uses her feminine she feminine wiles to be like, oh, you want this milk in this yard? Okay, come over. And he's like, yeah, I'm gonna get it. I'm gonna get it. And then she talks him into closing his eyes.
00:29:42
Speaker
Um, and just, you know, and he's like, what are you doing? She's like, no, no, no. You know, this will make it eat like more horny or nicer. She starts to spread what seems like a po plant or something. Honey. Honey. All over his butt and his ding dong. His ding dong. And there is a There is a little wasper honey nest nearby, and his eyes are still closed as she's obviously working. She's working that honey in, and he's getting some pleasure out of it. And then she's just like, yeah, just relax for a minute. I'm just going to go over here. And she whacks this nest of bees. And they have, well, you can guess what happened next. Because bees got to go for the honey. They got to go for the honey. Bees go for the honey, and the honey is between a crack of his ass. It's a little bit too soft running.
00:30:36
Speaker
and i was just like yeah but Um, but you know, she gets hers back. Like, you know, I think it's one of those things where it's like, just because a woman is, um, I don't know what the term is, but like, you know, she loves sex. Yeah. yeah She, she enjoys sex and she enjoys flirting. It does not mean that just, just about anybody can get a crack at it. Okay. She might be wop, wop, wop him, but you don't get to park your car in his garage. Okay. Like just, yeah.
00:31:07
Speaker
Yeah, just back up. It'll be fine. It'll be fine. So she gets um Dylan, right? Her name? I I was like, I'm not gonna remember his name. He's an asshole. Dylan is like pulled off of her. um And we just see that for a smidge. But we learned that this group is really about teaching everyone to have the same set of skills. Yes. um and So they practice their bow and arrow skills. They identify poisonous herbs and rocks and minerals. Like you said, the women and the the women are educated yeah and they listen to them.
00:31:46
Speaker
So one woman, which I don't know, I thought it was interesting because they're planning to attack the Bobby group, right? Yeah. They're like, you can't stay on the run. We need to take them out. they So they fashioned grenades. Yeah. um ah Using some like rocks with some natural minerals and making gunpowder, which is basically frog grenades. Yeah, like, and then she figured, I think she's like, i she basically, there's a, there's a, here's a thing. There's like a collaboration between them. She knows what is required to make a grenade. And each of the men come up with the ways in which they can get them from nature.
Bobby's Manipulation and Power
00:32:24
Speaker
So she's like, we need sulfur. And this guy's like, Hey, there's this plant over here.
00:32:29
Speaker
And if you grind enough of it, you get sulfur. And I just, see you know, it's kind of, and then this is what ah Rossman is getting at, this idea that when we engage both sexes in society, like we really get a productive society to be able to like, you have your ideas, I have my ideas, we put it together, and now we are a stronger team together. the old because Because these men have tried at different points to take down this camp. And they only gain some level of success yeah when they join up with the women. see And then i was that that's the important lesson that she's trying to convey, you know, even though there's lots of tits and dicks flying around. um
00:33:15
Speaker
But I like when you say tits. but A lot of titties and asses are floored around. Darling. Darling. You're Toritas. A lot of titties and asses floating around. I love that. All right, Missy. um So, I think they're they are together for about a week. Time is a little funny in this movie. you It really is. You don't really know how long it has gone on. But I imagine that it is at least like a month or so. Somewhere in there, yeah. Because it becomes necessary for like the second drop, the second food drop to show up. And in Bobby,
00:34:06
Speaker
is it Bobby or is it Roy? I think it's Bobby. Okay. So Bobby is like, we will, the next drop, we will not only take the food, but we will also get the weapons from, um, from the guards. Right. And you know of course, because all men can think about instead of just trying to feed themselves is how can we get more guns? Well, also what does he use? Um, cause there's an ambush in between there. What does he use? What does he take from AJ's group yeah and use for bait?
00:34:39
Speaker
So eventually, I guess bunny who doesn't talk and kind of doesn't talk. She's like in her own little world. I think they say that she might have killed her parent, like a whole family or something. That's what I heard. Yeah. um um And so i she wanders off of the group and eventually she gets recaptured and taken back and he uses her as bait.
Survival Strategies and Missed Escape
00:35:00
Speaker
And now need to get an idea of just how nefarious this is. This is technically um his favorite woman. He may not love her, but she he regards her as higher than all the others and takes care of her. And he's willing to sacrifice her for his larger goal of accumulating more power. And so he like
00:35:23
Speaker
basically straps her with her arms and legs spread, rips her shirt, whips her till she's bleeding on the back. The the idea is to lure the guards from the boat when they drop off the supplies to then go on and investigate. Yes, because no one can deny such a pretty face. But he is also very beautiful. She's beautiful. She's got long flowing 70s hair. Yes, that hair that they do this with. And he's like, no one will be able to deny this face in me. He ain't wrong. He's not wrong. And so he sets her up as a tramp between two posts. He whips her. um And I wrote.
00:36:10
Speaker
He said no one can resist that and after he's done whipping her, which is no one can resist a beautiful white woman in distress, basic regardless of the fact that she's on Terminal Island. Yes, and she's there for a reason. yeah um But I was just like, these guards are playing dumb. I'm like, did they not read did they not give you the policies and procedures? yeah yeah You drop it and you leave. yeah like drop If they want to whip each other, that's on them. That's what the island's for. And so, of course, the guards fall right into the plan, which is so obvious. yeah yeah Yeah. But again, it's the exploitation. It's a exploitation. It's pretty moving. And this whole time, you know, first of all, to Bobby and his team who were like, OK, while we hide behind these rooms and y'all come in and like they'll come over to this woman, you might you do you swim to the boat, right? Swim to the boat and take out the other guard.
00:37:09
Speaker
because For what purpose exactly also you can get his weapons and I was just like my brothers in
Power and Institutionalization Commentary
00:37:15
Speaker
Christ. There is a boat Why are you not leaving? Yeah, why are you not yet on the boat? that was What was so interesting to me is that they never considered? Leaving the island back on the island or back on the boat to leave the island. and I thought oh, so now we're talking about power, right? that You have created a situation he created is get tiny You created this society that you get to run how you like it. Why go back to the mainland where you have to pay taxes? Where you have to pay taxes, where you're a criminal, where you are one of millions and billions of people that no one's going to pay attention to here, you get to be king, right? yeah I mean, he's like, I was like looking at it as like, okay, even if I wasn't Bobby, if I was any of the other guy, the guy that swam up for the boat, I would just be like, deuces.
00:38:03
Speaker
You know, you drive south enough, you're going to end up in Mexico. I was like, you know what? Clean Eastwood made a boat out of a raincoat in Alcatraz so he could go. He could leave and y'all are just like, I love that. I love that. It was just his toe and the Lord Jesus, and he made it to shore, okay? You Nigerians, I love what you say, like, and we thank God. And we thank God, okay? For his blessings and his...
00:38:37
Speaker
and his continuous miracles.
00:38:45
Speaker
and So yeah, these folks, they you know they struck gold. They got what they wanted and they didn't leave. Instead, they just took the guns, which is a finite amount. Yeah, there's just they didn't bring all of the bullets with them guys but enough bullets to maybe escape the island if they were under attack. Yeah. ah And so it was just a wild decision making. But now that you explain it as like a power move is like, you know, not necessarily maybe it's also like that, you know, what was it? But he says. here's my philosophy living in the penitentiary, like, you know, like, penitentiary philosophy or something like that, yeah that kind of idea that like you're institutionalized, right? And so the idea is you won't be able to adapt back in society. So you might as well stay here. And I was like, yeah you know, that makes sense that some of the, some of them are so, yeah they've been there so long that this is all they know.
00:39:43
Speaker
And going back to the mainland, they do just know they're not going to be able to... fit in, even if they follow all the rules. ah and But, you know, when you have power, like you said, like, so it makes a lot of sense now, why did you pick the boat? Because I was just like, I don't understand, y
Conflict Climax and Resolutions
00:39:59
Speaker
'all. Like, why are you not getting this boat? I totally thought like, oh, yeah, they're about to like leave. And so they don't. Oh, boy comes back. The boat is still like out there on the water. Oh, boy swims back to shore with the guns by extracting his body. And Bobby kills him.
00:40:18
Speaker
Yeah. Bobby takes out like a bunch of them and he takes out some of his own dudes. Yeah. Again, you know, it's like this lust for power. He's trying to take out anyone that could be a competition, any anyone that can stand up to him. And he, you know, he made it seem like they were going to get guns and then he killed them and took their guns. So he wants to be the only one. Exactly. a weapon. and He's definitely leaning really hard into his God complex because at the end of the day, he wants to be the only survivor. He wants to manipulate everybody to protect him okay from everybody else. But he's really wimpy. like He's not that strong. not yeah He's not like that smart.
00:41:00
Speaker
But any you know he I think that, to me, the Bobby wasn't really sold as charismatic. And I feel like if they had sold him more charismatic, I would understand why he was the leader of this game. Because he's talking to Monk and I was like, Monk, you could literally just punch him twice and he'd die. Like, yeah, yeah, you could. Why are you taking? Yeah. crap from this man. So, um, so I think like for me, the actor could have done a little bit more or maybe it's a directing thing. I don't know. But like to show that the reason he's able to like talk to these people like this is because he oscillates between, um, honey and venom, right? like it's it's itself a toxic relationship of being with somebody that's like kind and nice to you one minute and then horrible to you the next but they are nice enough or for long enough they that the venom is almost feels like you can discount it right you're like you're like oh no but he's just i it was my fault i didn't kill the people when i was supposed to kill the people and there's no now um exactly so yeah
00:42:09
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's very, very interesting. And so he kills them, takes the guns, and him and Mark run back to the bunker. Right. And in the opening of this movie, the bunker was not even close to being done. I think that it was a hole in the ground. Yeah, they were digging the hole for the foundation. And now towards the end, they are booking it back towards the bunker. If I remember correctly, is it Tom Selleck at Freeze Bunny? You know,
00:42:41
Speaker
Yes, because he goes yeah ah he goes down to the beach and there's like two people still up on the ridge because they see what's happening. And um they go down to like free her. and So, yeah, because i I say that that's what's happening because I think i believe Bobby and in his gang had already started to go back to camp. yeah Yeah. Yeah. They then told one of the other um one of their other colleagues, like, oh, by the way, you need to let everybody know they got guns now. Right. Cause they'd also come up with this amazing scheme and they, you know, they were going to like burn these people out and they had all of these strategies of how they were going to take over the camp.
Final Showdown and Social Evolution
00:43:25
Speaker
So it was, uh, yeah, it was pretty interesting. It was like these two groups were building up for war. Okay. It was warriors all over again, like yes an island. They were about to clash. Absolutely. And so AJ's group gets back to Bobby's camp.
00:43:41
Speaker
And he immediately notices that nobody's outside, which you you are outside. There's no where else for you to be. where you going Where else are you going to go? So he figures out that clearly they're hiding behind their structures. But just like you said, it was some Almost brave heart kind of shit where everybody comes out and they just are running towards each other and they're clashing. Yeah. And people are cutting each other, stabbing each other. Those homemade frog grenades. Yeah. are being you who
00:44:18
Speaker
in some hilarious fashion like yeah I'm just gonna run over here and do it and then you know one of the girls gets shot on the way back yeah yeah I gotta get I gotta get it in yeah that's right catch up everywhere running in these booty shorts too and I was like and they're all trying to figure out like oh well maybe I can do it or maybe I can do it Because, excuse me, excuse me, I'm so tired from my vacation on an island. On an island, a terminal island. On an island. But folks are dying. What I love about the 70s is how people die and move to... Yes, it's ridiculous. Like they get blown up and they're like... And then they do the little like...
00:45:05
Speaker
They have this vibration and it's just, it's peak, it's peak camp. Like if you're into B-movies, get camp-ness, this is the one for you, right? Let me tell you, I was chatting with a curator. He's in town, I'm going to go visit him. And he was telling me about it and I was at my grandma's house last week in Dallas. And he's like, what are you doing? I'm watching Turtle Island. He said, it's one of my favorite movies. Oh, yay! Just listen to our podcast, dude. There we go. I'm gonna see him and his wife tomorrow, gonna meet up for some lunch, and I can't wait to talk about it with him. He's like, what? You just never think about someone talking about that kind of movie. You never think about it. This is definitely one of those things that's like, it's a weird Wednesday movie that the Alamo Drafthouse would have, like,
00:45:54
Speaker
thrown you know and I love those because you know people are like oh the acting's bad and it's like the debts I was like but that's what you know ah something can be like just fun and hilarious that way like yeah you know do yeah do you want to be shocked and do you want to be scared yeah obviously maybe this might not be the movie for you because it's kind of silly but it's okay for movies to be silly it's okay for them to be camp and to um for the blood to be so red that you're just like, is this Kool-Aid? Like, I don't know what is happening here. But, you know, this is a very tight, like, I don't even think this movie is more than 90 minutes. It might be, it might be like,
00:46:37
Speaker
it yeah It's 88 minutes. It's eighty eight minutes is pretty short. You could probably do a double feature with something else that makes you feel like you're a real cinema goer or whatever. um A real connoisseur of the theater. but um you know it's it's wild, but it's, it packs a lot of really important questions in it in such a short time. You know? Yeah. Yeah. And it's super short. Like, yeah. What do you say? 80 minutes? Yeah. 88 minutes. 88 minutes. It's not even an hour and a half. Not even. So I was sitting there watching it and I'm sitting in my grandma's room. I'm like, damn, this movie's already over. Yeah. And so how does it end?
00:47:18
Speaker
Well, so but it did they so hubris because ah Bobby has created this this bunker to protect himself and
Film Conclusion and Society Formation
00:47:29
Speaker
it's made of stone. So like, you know, they can't they're throwing stuff at it. They're they they can't. They're shooting out. They can't quite hit it. Right. But someone has a smart idea. um They somehow get their hands on kerosene or something. I don't even know. um But they pour it. So they They were talking about this throughout the movie, though. They've been trying to build this um kind of pipe system that would deliver water probably to Bobby's hut. An irrigation system to water the plants, whatever. And it's, you know, they built it. It didn't work. um tried to I think that one of the women was like, no, he's kind of, he's not doing it right. And no one listened to her. Anyway, and they managed to get something built and they pour
00:48:17
Speaker
um gas. Yes. Into it. And it then starts to filter because in in the bunker, um Bobby has what looks like kind of a ah water heater or water dispenser. And the pipe is coming directly in there. So I guess the idea is if he's ever in danger, he can go in there to his food, there's weapons, there's water, and he doesn't have to come out for like as long as he wants, even though the front door is made of wood. stick ah you know hard about it
00:48:50
Speaker
um And so they instead of water, they didn't pour gasoline and then they light the irrigation system and the fire goes down. And then at some point, Bobby's like, you smell that. Mm hmm. And then realizes that it's, um, gas, but before he can get out, the whole thing blows up. Yeah. Yeah. Whole thing blows up. And that's how we got rid of Bobby. And that's how you shake the room.
00:49:22
Speaker
yeah I love that way. I'm going to write that down. That may be the title of a show. Boom, boom, shake, shake the room. Boom, boom, shake, shake the room. Bye, Bob. Um, I hope we never see you again. Um, and so then they've defeated, they've you know, after fighting and a lot of people died on both sides. Um, and that's the thing about violence is no one goes, no one wins. But what's what's really interesting, and I talked about this at the beginning, how she sets up she sets this up with the stereotypical framework of a patriarchal society, um but now they have a choice to make.
Film Availability and Podcast Wrap-Up
00:50:02
Speaker
It's like, what kind of world are we going to build on this island?
00:50:07
Speaker
And it becomes one that is pretty egalitarian. So the men and the women are both working um and and building this community together. um There are relationships, but there doesn't seem to be a sense of jealousy of who's sleeping with who and who's with who. There's friendships that are building. um And, um you know, they seem to be doing well. And then it ends with a new arrival to Terminal Island, who looks like she's backpacking in Europe. She goes up on the island, and I was like, girl, who did you kill? Was it your self-esteem? Because that's why you're here. She shows up, she's maybe 21 or 22, and Tom Selleck, and I can't remember who it was, but there was another woman. They welcome her, and they're like, welcome to Terminal Island? I was like, what is this, White Lotus? Where's the brochure?
00:51:01
Speaker
And they make it sound like she's just arrived to Hawaii and they're going to like show her the ropes. So um it seems like they they've made a turnaround for this island. You know, it's like, yes, we're violent criminals by law. but we don't have to live in a violent society on this island. We can actually just be here and live out the rest of our lives. um And so that's how it ends is them welcoming this new young, fresh face to Terminal Island. Yeah. And there it is. And that is Terminal Island. You know, if I was sitting at home on a Sunday no and Terminal Island was on, you know,
00:51:41
Speaker
I mean, like, all right. Yeah, it is. It's such an easy thing to watch, like, an open walk and you know, I didn't mention this earlier, but this is available on to be. And I love to be. um It's free. And, you know, there might be like a couple of commercials in there, but, you know, they have one of the largest databases of movies and
Upcoming Film Discussions
00:52:02
Speaker
shows. And there are things that I have particularly films like this that are Blaxploitation or well exploitation not Blaxploitation correction um or just B movies or movies from the 40s that are like 40s horror movie like you can find them here like places where you didn't think you could you can find them here which is absolutely phenomenal and I love it. yeah um And so definitely check out 2B this is where you can watch it and if you don't like it you can always just watch something else after.
00:52:34
Speaker
Absolutely. Absolutely. like gar I I think it is a power of cleansing. I mean, some of it is hilarious, right? Like the running scenes, what the music that they chose, um or is these able to get licensed? um some Some of the dialogue. you know Some of the dialogue is funny. the The music did not match at all, though. It felt very weird night like, I don't know, ah sit not sitcom, but like action.
00:53:08
Speaker
I remember it feeling more like romance-esque. It was, I don't know. i It's been a while since I watched this movie, but um yeah it's when it is my copy what I remember is a it did not quite fit. Yeah, it didn't fit, but the way they run and when they fall and when they die. It's all over-dramatized. My dad spent like 10 minutes watching it with me and he's like, I remember this. he laugh yeah
00:53:43
Speaker
But it's an easy, easy movie. And so thank you for bringing it to my attention. But you brought so many movies to my attention. You're the one who is leading the roster. but Seriously. And if you want, I could tell you what comes next. I was just about to add. We're doing a double feature. OK. You cited. I will have to remind you, but we'll do the double feature. The first one is actually a pretty short movie called Shoes. OK. And it's from 1916.
00:54:20
Speaker
Whoa. All right. Yeah. 1960. It's available on Criterion. It's directed by Louise Weber.
Episode Wrap-Up and Future Releases
00:54:28
Speaker
And she is like one of the earliest so um film directors. So Shoes from 1916. And we're going to pair that with The Ballad of Little Joe. All right. And the Ballad of Little Joe is by Maggie greenw worldd ah Greenwald. Greenwald. And it's a Western because I love me. a good I I'm going to like give it. I love the Western. So I'm going to give a lot of details about it. But. um
00:55:00
Speaker
I remember I've been trying to watch this for like the longest time, um because I wanted, you know, after seeing Power of the Dog with James Champion, I was really interested in women's take on Westerns. um And then, you know, what as I was kind of like building my list of like movies directed by women on letterbox. um This came up and I was like, oh, okay. So I am excited to watch this. ah um So Shoes, 1916 by Louis Weber and the Ballad of Little Joe from 1993.
00:55:38
Speaker
by Maga Green World. So there's ah there's a good chunk of time between these two movies, and I hope that we'll get to talk about any crossovers that they have. Yeah, I'm excited. This is great, too. This is interesting. Yes. Yeah, yes. All right. Well, thank you all for joining us on this episode of ah The Screen Queens. I hope that you will go and watch this movie if you haven't. It is super fun, like we've said multiple times on this podcast. um And you can always prepare for our next one. this would drop The other one will drop in August and you can watch Shoes and or the Ballad of Little Joe so that you can hear all the tea that we have to share with you. And with that, I say thank you and we'll see you guys soon. Bye.
00:56:31
Speaker
woman walking down the street woman walking down the street you're gonna wish you hadn't done that dylan i'm gonna fix your ass