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WCAD 4-3: Jon Arnold Joins to Preview Group A
697 Plays15 days ago
Amit and Austin are joined by Jon Arnold of the USA Today and Getting CONCACAF'd to preview a wide-open Group A. Hosts Mexico, once again haunted by the goal of a quinto partido, feature alongside a South Korea side looking for form, a South Africa setup prepared to play spoiler, and a Czechia team that have turned things around following a dip in qualifying.
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Transcript
Introduction and Korea-themed Dinner
00:00:01
Speaker
Longtime listeners of this show will obviously know that Amit and I are committed to our craft. We try to give you the best product that we can. But in case anybody is is new around here, maybe they're just joining the the World Cup After Dark Brigade.
00:00:16
Speaker
To know how committed we are, they should know that you brought a themed dinner last night to get ready for today's show.
Focus on South Korea in World Cup
00:00:26
Speaker
I can't promise they were correlated. you know The whole point of bibimbap is cooking the vegetables you have on hand. But if that's the hint, yes, we'll be talking about Korea today. So perhaps that is why I did it.
00:00:37
Speaker
If you are new around here, welcome. If you are old around here, welcome as well. As I made alluded to, it's the Group a preview. We're talking the host country, Mexico. We're talking South Korea, South Africa, and the Czech Republic. Or is it Czechia? I don't know. We'll get into that maybe at some point in today's show.
Group A Preview: Mexico, South Korea, South Africa, Czech Republic
00:00:53
Speaker
And to do that, Amit, we are thrilled as always to welcome our friend. You know him from getting CONCACAF'd, or maybe you know him from his fancy new gig at the USA Today.
00:01:03
Speaker
It is John Arnold. John, a pleasure as always to have you back. Congrats on the new gig. It's great to have you. Thanks. I had tacos last night. Also, potential coincidence, but potential part of our group preview.
00:01:18
Speaker
How you been? I've been good, man. Yeah, the job is good. Check out USA Today. Click the articles with local soccer. You can click the other ones too. It's all good over there. But yeah, you know trying to conca-calf pill ah the international, andl I mean, I guess national, the international audience of USA Today. It won't be a problem during the World Cup. Everyone's ready to open wide and and take the CONCACAF pill and all the other types of soccer pills. But hopefully that carries on into the summer, the fall, etc.
Mexico's World Cup Strategy and Expectations
00:01:46
Speaker
So, yeah, it's it's it's good and still rolling, of course, on on the other stuff. But, yeah, it was carnitas last night, guys. Pretty pretty delicious.
00:01:56
Speaker
I did not have any Czech delicacies for dinner last night. i admit I'm sorry. I feel like I'm letting the group down. i don't even are there checked I'm sure there's Czech delicacies. I'm just simply unaware of what they are.
00:02:07
Speaker
Anybody got one? po knuckle Big old pork knuckle. yeah Exactly. yeah There you go. um All right. As we do on all of these shows, I i think ah a good place to start here is by looking at the draw for this group. ah The winner of this group will face a third place team in Mexico City. That is obviously the preferred path for Mexico that keeps them in their home country.
00:02:28
Speaker
ah The winner of Group L, which is the England group slash another third place team would await in the round of 16, which would also be in Mexico City. The winner of the Brazil group also sits in that quadrant, while the runner up of this group will face the runner up of the Canada group in Los Angeles, but also actually probably wouldn't be all that bad for Mexico with the winner of the Netherlands group and the runner up of the Brazil group ah in Houston for the round of 16. And then the winner of the Germany group and the winner of the France group are also in the quadrant. That looks like a difficult quadrant.
00:02:57
Speaker
I think my my overall takeaway from the draw here, Amit, is that it is probably better to win the group, but a difficult round of 16 match probably awaits either way. I think any round of 16 match is going to be difficult unless you're one of the top dogs in the whole thing. I think this is broken nicely for all the teams in this group. they were're going to talk about this group. I think it's pretty open and it's pretty forgiving if you finish in the top two. I think...
00:03:24
Speaker
the teams that that finished here can like their chances to get to the round of 16. Obviously, the expectations are going to be a little higher for some of the teams and others, but I think every team here can talk themselves into trying to trying to win a knockout game, and that's exciting. um And especially, you know, that's a kind second-place draw.
00:03:44
Speaker
Getting the runner up from group b that could be Canada, could be Switzerland, could it could be Bosnia. i think anyone here that finishes second will take their chances in that game. um So definitely incentive to to try to avoid third. I think that is the the big cut line, the big and big incentive.
00:03:58
Speaker
Yeah, it obviously, this group is made interesting by the fact that what makes a difficult group, if you will, or at least a top-heavy group in this World Cup is is what comes out of POT1. And when you take that POT1 team and you take what could be a European or a South American power and you replace them with one of the host countries from CONCACAF, that just totally changes the group because it becomes a lot more accessible. You also have a POT2 team in South Korea that isn't super strong. South Africa definitely aren't among the best teams out of POT3.
00:04:26
Speaker
And I think there's a case to be made that Czechia are probably the worst European team at this tournament. We'll see what that actually means and where that value actually goes. But you put all of that together, John, and this feels like a group that is full of opportunity for all four of these teams. But maybe most importantly, particularly from your perspective, this is a group that Mexico have to succeed in and should succeed in, at least on paper.
00:04:53
Speaker
Well, I think that like also the way you're drawing out the plan, look like Mexico will be the home team anywhere, but especially with the way that ticketing has worked out and it doesn't seem like there's a lot of last minute tickets kicking around, although maybe there will be. um Like if they win the group, they stay in Mexico City. And if they win that really tough group, they are that. that tough game, they stay in Mexico City again. And so I think just the fact that like you don't have to get on a plane and go to your match day minus one training site and et cetera, you're at the, the literally the car, like the, your actual main training base for Mexico is their base camp. So it's like, If you can stay in Mexico City, the the benefit is just massive for L3 compared to those other teams where it's like, oh, if Korea topped group or Czechia topped the group. It's like, I mean, maybe they get some benefit out of like, we're still at altitude, but like just the the incentive for Mexico, not just to to do well, but to win the group, I think is really, really massive.
00:05:46
Speaker
I don't know if you saw, Mitt, but John mentioned altitude and I just got a a little scratchy. i just I just thought about our Bolivia boys who aren't going to be here and and are not at altitude. just Yeah, yeah. Pour one out for for our Bolivia boys. John is obviously here because of his Mexico expertise, but he's also not one to shy away from the international football talk. So we'll be getting John's take not just on Mexico, but also on all these other teams. And that might just consist of John just peppering us with questions about Czechia and South Africa and ah South Korea.
00:06:12
Speaker
He's here for all of the fun, but let's dive into Mexico, John. um It's their 18th World Cup appearance, their ninth straight, their third time that they have hosted this tournament. The last time that they actually got further than the round of 16 at the World Cup was on home soil in 1986. They went out in the group stage in 2022. So, John, the number one question, I think, for Mexico...
00:06:33
Speaker
is will they make the famed Quinto Partido? Or maybe this time around, it's actually the Sexto Partido because now the Quinto Partido is the Viejo Cuarto Partido. There's a lot of Spanish words to say that what are the actual expectations for Mexico here, particularly in comparison to where they've been at previous World Cups?
00:06:51
Speaker
Yeah, it's funny because that target has kind of moved. you know I spoke with Andres Guardado, the all-time leading cap winner for Mexico, and asked him, hey, what should the expectations be? Kind of funny. like it's his He's like, this is the first time I've really watched a World Cup because he was like 15 in 2002. And then the next time...
00:07:10
Speaker
He was on the roster. So like he he watched it when he was 15, but like, you know, it was weird time zones. And now he's like, I guess I can actually sit and watch some games. um But his his answer to the expectation was he thinks it is a success if they get to the quinto partido because he feels like just simply winning a knockout game is something that he wasn't able to do right that that really mexico never has done and so uh i think that but but at the same time like when that if that happens i should say like then i think the expectation starts to shoot up more mexico has been saying internally we want to have our best world cup ever and to do that like you're gonna have to win two knockout games so
00:07:48
Speaker
I think that's the internal like messaging. What do fans think? I don't think they want... i don't think they believe that this team could do what they want to do. I don't think there's a lot of belief around the team for a number of different reasons.
00:08:01
Speaker
Some of that is just Mexico fandom. But um the the rework of the World Cup, I think, gives this Mexico group an opportunity to claim success no matter what happens, as long as they get out of the group.
00:08:17
Speaker
I think that's a good way to to put it. What's tough, again, back to the draw, which is behind everything here, is that that sixth game, ah the excuse me, the fifth game would be most likely England.
00:08:31
Speaker
And even with home field advantage... you know Even at altitude, no one in their right mind is going to tell you that Mexico are favored against England. Now you you have to get to that game, and maybe it's someone else. Maybe someone upsets England. Maybe Croatia or Japan win that group. And then you you know the expectations move, and you really could be excited about potentially getting to a quarterfinal and more. As you you alluded to earlier, you start stacking home games. There's a snowball effect there.
00:09:01
Speaker
It's kind of like you said, hard to pinpoint why, but I can understand if you're in the Mexico camp just being like, yeah, let's win a knockout game and and you know not try to promise ourselves anything more. Would you, if they had said, yeah, we really want to make a quarterfinal, not that you would laugh at them, but how would you perceive that? You'd be like, there's no way you're going to do that. But obviously in your perspective, if you don't say that to them, but I think there's kind of some realism grounded, which is not a bad thing. Hmm.
00:09:38
Speaker
Yeah, maybe balance with the pressure of the Home World Cup. I mean, I think like the fact that it's at home does sort of heap pressure, has heaped pressure. I do wonder, like, I feel like maybe that bubble is popping in a way where like, I think the US, you know, the people are frustrated with FIFA, how things have been run, the ticketing, you know, look, everyone has read the headlines and seen kind of what's happening. And I think like maybe that idea of like, oh, these are going to be stadiums full of passionate fans that are cheering on the home team, like maybe that's not realistic because it seems like it's going to be a bunch of dudes wearing dress shirts that show up in the 30th minute, right? That might not be the case in Mexico. I mean, the the dress shirts might still be there, especially in Monterrey, but... um
00:10:21
Speaker
That's a funny joke to me. i don't know if anyone else is going to grab that one. But I think that like, yeah, you're you're looking at at that pressure, maybe balance with what you're saying of like, hey, the expectations actually seem sort of reasonable. Or no one's saying like, we're going to win the World Cup. And if we don't, it's a failure.
00:10:37
Speaker
So John, I want to dig into the home World Cup aspect of this for Mexico because it's obviously very easy from the outside and particularly from an American perspective to think of this as an American, and I use that in the United States term of American World Cup because the majority of the games are there, because the political headlines are there, because that's where the finals played and all of that sort of thing. But this is a home World Cup, at least in some sense for Mexico, where What does that mean for Mexico as a footballing country? What does that mean for Mexico as a national team? And where are things at with that? Is there kind of the on-the-street, groundswell excitement in Mexico that maybe we're not seeing, particularly in U.S.?
00:11:20
Speaker
You know what I think it's going to be really interesting to watch because on the one hand, I think it's very easy to find that kind of like what I would call football fiesta vibe, right? Where it's like, hey, look, we're at the Fan Fest and everyone's excited and like everyone's got their jersey on. They're doing cheers. or s singing Salito Lindo.
00:11:36
Speaker
But, you know, also like it wasn't that long ago that people were talking about like, is it safe? Like, can Mexico host games? There's violence in Guadalajara. The cartel has shut down this city. I think it'll go off...
00:11:47
Speaker
without hitches. I hope it goes off without hitches, obviously, of that kind of magnitude in nature. Same with the US, same with Canada. But I do think that like what you're going to see, the narrative around Mexico, outside of Mexico, I think will be very...
00:12:03
Speaker
How would I describe it? like I don't want to say limited because it does that you know that football fiesta does exist, but I think maybe incomplete when you're really talking about how does a Mexico fan feel, what characterizes Mexican football, what does it mean to host this World Cup?
00:12:16
Speaker
I think that there is a feeling in Mexico that, not that they got shorted necessarily, but like there's no illusion about being the host. like Everyone knows this is a U.S.-hosted World Cup with...
00:12:31
Speaker
Mexico and Canada wings, essentially, um or or elements. And I think Mexicans are happy to tell you that, right? But I do think that like, The home field advantage, I think, will really be there. And I think that like a lot of the Mexico fans who behave badly, who yell the word that you're not supposed to yell, who boo the national team, who have thrown things on the field in the past, like I don't think those fans, for good or for bad, are the ones who are going to be buying these World Cup tickets or or or you know going to be the kind of fan that's going to be close enough to chuck a can and hit the field. Right. um
00:13:04
Speaker
So, yeah, I mean, it's just going to be a different Mexico crowd than we're used to, but I think it will trend toward positivity. And I think more broadly, it is an important cultural moment. We saw the story where like the Mexico secretary of education was like, yeah hey, actually school isn't going to go as long as we planned. Now, why did you plan it like that in the first place? Who knows? Because then they had to reverse the decision when parents are like, why should my kid in Chiapas not go to school during the World Cup because of games happening in Mexico City. A great question and totally reasonable. But if you had planned the school calendar initially to have enough days to work around the World Cup, like then you don't have an issue at all. so like But I mean, I guess that like story is illustrative where you're like, people are definitely feeling it. People are getting excited. People are proud.
00:13:49
Speaker
But also, yeah yeah, like it's not just going to be the country totally freezes for these games because it it shouldn't. Like there's not there's not that many games in Mexico, to be honest. There's not that many. Like the Jalisco Secretary of Education was like, I want it to be a party when we have four match days. But like...
00:14:09
Speaker
we only have four match days. And I think that's like totally fair. So I think that's a helpful balance of like, yes, people are excited. Yes, football is everything, but also like life goes on and and there's other things happening.
00:14:26
Speaker
And one more for you, John. I think Mexico have had, I don't want to say a complicated relationship with Mexico, which is ah like like the Mexican national team has had a complicated relationship with Mexico.
00:14:37
Speaker
But it's it's fair to say Mexico haven't played a lot of games in Mexico outside of World Cup qualifiers, right? We know that Eltrie sends a lot of matches to the U.S. Is this a chance for this national team to maybe kind of reintroduce itself to the country in some sense? Or am I kind of seeing that wrong?
00:14:55
Speaker
Well, I mean, I think their chance was actually up because the Azteca was undergoing the renovations before this tournament. And then... they went to places they don't usually go. And even before the tournament, like they're playing in Toluca, which the women's team has gone recently, but the men's team hasn't been there in a while. Guadalajara in 24, excuse me, 2024 was the first time they played there since 2010. This is like Montre and Guadalajara's populations are quite similar, but like it's basically the second city of Mexico and they hadn't played there for more than a decade. But then like, it wasn't like fans were just like, hell yeah, we love this. Anos, like, yeah, like,
00:15:33
Speaker
I don't know. I think that was the opportunity, but like there was a moment in Torreón where like all the the insiders started to leak that the the Santos Laguna goalkeeper, the club in Torreón, their goalkeeper would be the starting goalkeeper for the Mexico match that was taking place there in November against Uruguay. And then he didn't play and Mexico didn't score. It was scoreless draw, but they're like booing the goalie for Mexico because he's not the Santos goalkeeper. And coming off the field, like hot mics captured a couple of the team's leaders saying like, well, this is what happens when we play here. And then Raul Jimenez, the forward, one of the biggest names on the team, says to the Mexican TV broadcast after the game, that's like, I'm not sad about the game. This is what is sad to me. And that's why they take us to the U.S. And you say like, well...
00:16:20
Speaker
I don't think that's quite right, but is the relationship repaired? Could it be repaired in these three games? None of which are in Monterey. None of which are in the... No. So, i look, everyone loves a winner. I think like a lot of times we say, like oh, like whatever. Florida Panthers fans show up only when their team wins. like That's just sports, right? If Mexico goes to the round of 16...
00:16:41
Speaker
ah The people will be excited. Fans will be excited. They will all support Mexico. I think everyone's going to be watching all the games anyway. But as far as like, will this team be the one to sort of like repair the relationship? It's tough to see unless they go on a really magical run.
00:16:56
Speaker
For the record, Florida Panther fans are Fairweather fans. Hate those guys. Go Cades, baby. Go ahead, man. It's a really complicated relationship and picture, and I appreciate all the the context here. it's like It's a very FIFA product, this World Cup, of being pretty top level and shallow. like It's not like the Mexico World Cup where you have all these different cities getting involved and the chance to like have...
00:17:23
Speaker
you know the atmosphere in all those cities. it's It's four match days in Guadalajara, like you said. And like you said, the the opportunity to kind of rekindle Artie Pass. i resonate with that a lot. It feels like...
00:17:38
Speaker
you know, those, these games are like kind of happening in a, in a snow globe. Like, yes, they are there in Mexico, but it doesn't necessarily feel like, feel like that. Of course we all, I think we all agree. Like if the team goes on a run, there will be some, there will be some juice and and it's a great opportunity to do that, but it doesn't necessarily, you know, feel like right now everyone is super, super excited. And I think there are some, you know, parallels between,
00:18:03
Speaker
Between the host countries and how they feel about their team and how they feel about hosting and that energy between the fans and the team because of that. I think that's, you know, not going to be a unique thing with a lot of these these World Cups going forward and a lot of these these big soccer events. So...
00:18:21
Speaker
so let's Let's kind of see how it plays out. I think to to think about this group and the pressure on Mexico we've we've we've alluded to is they should do well in this group. you know This group is just spicy enough that like there could be that that you know the nightmare scenario where you're fighting for your life and match days two and three, and then things could get really...
00:18:44
Speaker
you know, nasty, not in like the, the, the worst sense, but like things could get tense. And then like you throw like rekindling out the window. It's just about like survival to, to, to meet your base goal.
00:18:58
Speaker
But also like an interesting thing is that I think like so much and for the US, I would say like it's this is the pinnacle, right? Like it's all been building toward this. And I think that's the idea was the idea for Mexico and and and maybe for Canada.
00:19:11
Speaker
The interesting thing is I feel like the momentum now has already shifted toward 2030 because Rafa Marquez is as Javier Aguirre's assistant. Aguirre is going to go retire. Rafa is going to take over. It's likely that Andrés Guardado will be his assistant. You can read what he told me about that on USA Today.
00:19:26
Speaker
um And so you have this like next wave coming. And and like younger players who are going to Europe sooner, which Mexico fans have been asking for for a long time. And Chivas players actually succeeding, which is really good for the national team. So in a funny way, I think, yes, everyone's super excited. But like in a way that will be familiar to every sports fan, like some people are already like, I'm kind of just ready to flush this one and go to the next. So you know I think maybe the quote-unquote relationship gets repaired after this tournament if it doesn't go amazing because of Rafa and who he is and some of the legends and and And these new young players who look like we all know how it works. Young players are more exciting than old players. And and I think that they actually have a good generation coming through.
00:20:13
Speaker
Let's dive in a bit more granular here, Mexico, John. You mentioned Javier Aguirre. He's the manager. and he took over after the 2024 Copa America where Mexico did not have a very good tournament. They were dumped out in the group stage with just one goal scored. It's his third World Cup with Mexico.
00:20:27
Speaker
He was the manager in 2002 and in 2010. Got big criticism in 2010 for a whole spat about Chicharito playing or not. ah Won the Nations League and Gold Cup in 2025. Some poor friendly results to close that year. Their results in March were okay. They played the the same two teams that US s played and they got two draws instead of two losses.
00:20:47
Speaker
Javier Aguirre, the sentiment kind of was ah stable, experienced hands coming in. You mentioned that you've got the the Rafa Marquez experience. Is that the Rafa Marquez getting the experience ah ahead of taking charge of the team after this?
00:21:02
Speaker
Is that kind of still the sentiment here? Javier Aguirre is probably not going to win Mexico the World Cup, but he also probably shouldn't lose it for them, if you if you think that way I definitely don't think that people think that Aguirre is going to win him the World Cup. I think that he is now being seen... Look, like, and and I'll probably, I pray that I enter this at one point. I think when you look at an older man who has been around a lot long time, he's either like, hey, your grandpa who is cuddly or like a prickly jerk.
00:21:27
Speaker
And I think he's kind of like gone through that entire cycle already where like after the Nations League and the Gold Cup, after Gold Cup, he said, I'm not going to dance past Ordeo, this like kind of famous like like wedding song, like a line dance, right? Which he had done to celebrate other moments. And then he's like, I'm too old for that now. And then what do you see coming out of the locker room? There he is, busting a move, cutting a rug, drinking a beer.
00:21:48
Speaker
And it's like, oh, grandpa is fun. And then like, they start to have trouble in the fall. And they have this weird situation that we have to talk about where Aguirre wanted to do what he did in 2010, which is like bring in a domestic-based camp a month before the World Cup. And so he and all the Liga Mequis clubs agreed, OK, we're going to send all of our guys to you before the Ligia, the Liga Mequis playoffs, which are now underway as we speak.
00:22:13
Speaker
But multiple clubs were like, well, wait a second. What you all going to be doing? Toluca had CONCACAF Champions Cup semifinal. All these teams had playoffs and they're like, why can't we just send these guys later? And it was this big beef. And I think that that soured a lot of people in Aguirre because it sort of is the wrong symbol of what he is, which is like the old guard. That's how we used to do things. And it may be, mean, I would argue it didn't work in 2010. Right. It's not like we're talking, oh, that was the year that they went to the semifinals. like
00:22:44
Speaker
If that's your goal, then do something different. But it seems like this way of working is how he wants to do it. So I think that that's the perception in some circles. the The old school fans are still the old school fans, right? like old Like people who were stoked about Aguirre coming in and know what he means to the team. And remember the hat press conference in 2010 where he was like talking from under his hat bill you know during this controversy and like all these different moments that he's been a part of. You know, people who remember that like probably remember him somewhat fondly.
00:23:17
Speaker
and And I think like he is a good manager. He was a good manager. Probably Mexico's most successful manager on the world stage, maybe by far, when you look at like his time in Spain, his time with ja Japan, like all these other situations that he had. But I think the feeling is, like at this point, the sentiment is that he's a little like old and washed.
00:23:40
Speaker
Always good vibes, Amit. It's exactly what you're looking when you're going in the World Cup. Not necessarily. i think this this team, right, to talk about them, like there is that sense that like he's not really going to be able to squeeze inventiveness out of them. And the style they play is pretty like fundamentals, you know, don't make mistakes and just don't beat yourself kind of soccer, right?
00:24:10
Speaker
Yeah, I would say it's like,
00:24:14
Speaker
Yeah, mistake ah repellent, right? They don't want to screw up. They're not going to do anything like crazy, no big risks. And of course, like that's another thing that feeds in where fans are like, dude, why why aren't we trying to smash this, you know, random CONCACAF team? They just don't play like that. Yeah, that's not really the that's not the style. that's not That's not what they're going to do.
00:24:35
Speaker
And to be fair, like I think that Aguirre kind of settled on something that does suit his personnel. right We always talk about, like oh, does the manager want the people to match the system or does he match his system to the people? And when you look at his roster, it's like as much as fans want to say, oh ah some of the guys we're about to talk about, they could be these breakout players that like make everything so crazy and we we score six goals against Tonduras or whatever.
00:24:59
Speaker
I don't know, man. I don't know that that's really on the squad. I will say, you missed a trick there because there was an old and washed thrown around and you could have segged perfectly into talking about the goalkeeper position because is Memo Ochoa still hanging around here, John?
00:25:13
Speaker
Yeah, he is. he is. i think it's going to be really fascinating to see how Memo Ochoa is used. He was at the Gold Cup and a friend of mine in Mexico did an article that was like, he called him Ochoa the rock star because like he showed up at the hotel, signed autographs, took pictures and then did apparently not that much. and like Even like the sort of you know mentorship stuff that we always talk about.
00:25:34
Speaker
According to this report, he wasn't really that involved, but he's going to be back. An injury to Luis Angel Malagón, the America keeper, means that Raul Rangel, the Chiefs goalkeeper, will almost certainly be the number one. Carlos Acevedo, that guy from Santos Laguna that all the fans wanted to see, he'll probably be the number two, but the Nocho will be the number three. Now, he's going to a sixth World Cup, and I think that's historic and important, but he didn't play in the first two.
00:26:00
Speaker
So I don't know if Mexico's going to feel some sort of obligation to to wedge him into a lineup in the group stage so he gets a game. I mean, that would only make him at four World Cups played. It wouldn't reach, like, ah other mexico legends like guardado and uh the old goalkeeper whose name is escaping me right now who also went to six but at total carajal but um maybe he wants to play i don't know um and we'll see kind of how that like off-field influence affects mexico I mean, in front of the goal, you've got Jesus Gachardo, 118 caps, Johan Vazquez, Cesar Montes. All three of those guys started both friendlies in March. It feels like there's a good defensive base here and it leans into that style that Aguirre wants to play and what John mentioned where they're trying to be mistake prone. It feels like that's a good starting point.
00:26:51
Speaker
hundred percent. Gallardo's very seasoned. Montez is physically imposing, great with duels, tall height and helpful on set pieces. You know, they just, these center backs are not like, no one's going to mistake them for, for champions league level or that level, but they're, they're, they don't make a lot of mistakes with the ball. They don't like try to build up too crazily. um And they're, they're good in duels. And I think that's a good thing. And i think Mexico's going to,
00:27:17
Speaker
play a pretty defensive field position until they have to go break a team down and they don't ask them to do too much. And i think these are decent players. And again, Montez ah as a set piece threat is really something I think we're going to talk about with Mexico is one of their X factors. um Plus Edson Alvarez in the midfield, but it's, it's a no nonsense center back group. Like that's exactly the, the Gere repellent mistake repellent ball fits right in.
00:27:46
Speaker
And John, maybe things a bit murkier going forward from there. Obviously, Edson Alvarez may be chasing a bit of fitness, but if he's fit, he's going to be in the team. And Amit talked about the the set piece indication there. But everything else kind of feels like there could be some options here for Aguirre, maybe between some old guard, young guard kind of mix or one or the other.
00:28:06
Speaker
Yeah, and even with Edson, if he's fit, which I think is a big question mark, I guess he played one minute in Turkey coming back from like some injuries, but that's not exactly testing it out. Edson's listed as a defender on the provisional roster, and Aguirre has sometimes played him as a center back. I guess he could also go to a back three. I think then the question is like, okay, Gallardo's your left wing back.
00:28:27
Speaker
is your right wing back is Israel Reyes as America center back. That's been deputized as a right back. It seems like he's going to be the starting right back in a back four, but if they go to a back three, will it be that, that situation? I don't know. Um, you know, I do think there's a lot of flux going forward.
00:28:43
Speaker
Um, But they got a big boost. If Edson's healthy, it would be a big boost. And i got a big boost in Alvaro Fidalgo, the Spanish-born player who was a Club America legend, did it all. I guess as he was leaving for Real Betis, basically finished his Mexican citizenship, had been there for long enough and qualifies through um the five years to live, having lived there, to to be a Mexico international. So he's suiting up. He's on the provisional. He should be there.
00:29:09
Speaker
Luis Chavez is healthy again in Russia, sort of. um So he's a big option. and And you've got some younger players as well. My suspicion is that Aguirre gave this interview where he was kind of saying, basically, I didn't think I would take Obed Vargas to the World Cup. And then he got transferred to Atletico Madrid. And it's like...
00:29:28
Speaker
well, okay, he's the same same player, but like I guess managers get their heads turned by a shiny team too. like i That makes me think that if Vargas is on the roster that he might not play a huge part. But someone who will play a huge part is Gilberto Mora, who's fit. I've missed a lot of the year with the groin situation of sports hernia, um but he's 17-year-old kid.
00:29:51
Speaker
who I think a lot of people are really excited about. I mean, look, like myself included, the day he turns 18, he should sign with like a mega club. um He's got a big European agent. He's he's the real deal. um And I think like a lot of Mexican fans are putting a lot of expectations on Morda.
00:30:07
Speaker
That's tough. We've seen Mexico players... flame out in those situations before, but this kid does seem like extremely mentally strong and just straight up talented in a way that like even some of the predecessors, like, is he better at 17 than Gio Santos?
00:30:21
Speaker
Yeah, kind of seems like he is. Is he better at 17 than Carlos Bela? Yeah, probably, probably. So um I think like you you have you understand the hype around him. So I guess that's like what you're looking at.
00:30:32
Speaker
At the back and then in the middle and then up top, Raul is is almost certainly going to be the starting forward. Yeah. And then question marks. a bit Can Raul Jimenez find the form and and fire Mexico to success at this World Cup?
00:30:49
Speaker
I think you have to like your chances. He's as he's is you know as good of a number nine as Mexico can kind of hope to produce at this level. um He's great physical player, makes the runs.
00:31:02
Speaker
He's got all sorts of crafty, inventive finishes. you know Can they get him enough service? I think he's... you know Not like the guy that can necessarily steal you goals, but put the ball in the box enough times, I think he he finds something for you. He's always making that run across the defender. And again, great set-piece threat. um Good head of the ball. So i I'm confident for him. they They kind of have a lot riding on him because there's so many question marks and in the in the attacking position, especially a a big spot where they couldn't really ah afford an injury. like So I...
00:31:36
Speaker
I'm very excited for, for Roa Jimenez. I also just wanted to touch on Brian Gutierrez. Yeah. He's, he's a really ah interesting player. Saw a lot of him at the fire. He's like great on the ball. Great dribbler can shoot good creative passer.
00:31:51
Speaker
I'm not sure he's going to get great minutes either because he's a little frail defensively. Can you trust him ah to to play heavy minutes? If you, you need to be solid. Yeah.
00:32:02
Speaker
maybe a good super sub to chase a game. I kind of spot on agree with John about Obed Vargas too. he he wasn't cracking Atletico's best 11 a lot. He wasn't starting a lot. He was kind of behind um Johnny, the American also center midfielder at Atletico and You know, I think their potential is there like to get that move, obviously, but like it's not quite on the field yet. Like again, trusting him in a big match.
00:32:29
Speaker
If you need a guy to help you hold on the the lead, maybe. Yeah, he can come in. um But yeah, sorry. Back to the attackers. It's Jimenez and then a lot of question marks.
00:32:40
Speaker
I think that there's also some like options that Mexico didn't realize they would have. When you look at Ormigo Gonzalez and how good he's been at Chivas, I've kind of thought that he had golden handcuffs on him because his buyout is like... I don't remember exactly what it is. It's like between $12 million and $15 million. I think somebody will probably pay that this summer. like He's been that good for Chivas. He's been that deadly in front of goal.
00:33:00
Speaker
He's not young necessarily compared to... not Herberto Mora, but think he's 20.
00:33:07
Speaker
3? Fact check me. um So, you know, like he could be another player who all of a sudden, you got a little bit of found money with him. Like he wasn't involved in the past cycle at all, but he absolutely has to make the roster and and looks like he did going into this domestic camp. so There are more, Mexico has more options than what it looked like, which it was going to be, you know, we're saying in the law firm of Jimenez and Jimenez, where Santi Jimenez just hasn't been able to get fit. And then when he's been fit, he hasn't been able to get minutes. And when he's gotten minutes, he hasn't been able to get goals in Europe. So ah now there are other players who you feel like this guy's in good form. He can do it. So I just think you you mentioned Amit, like, well, can can they get the ball to Raul enough for him to score enough?
00:33:47
Speaker
That, I think, is a massive question because I think that's where the biggest gap is And that's part of the reason that Gilberto More is this like figure in Mexican soccer right now where it's like, well, maybe that's it because there's not like a great connecting piece between that like midfield and defensive base that we're all saying. like It's solid. you know it's not It's not World Cup winning, but like it's good. It's a good base.
00:34:10
Speaker
And then Raul, so like what happens between that? We've seen a ah couple different options, but like nothing is super popped. And that's why Morra I think is such an exciting player because he could be that player in between those those lines essentially where Not going to play as number 10, but like can if he needs to, but also like could come in and from the outside, like could drop a little deeper, win the ball and go like he can do a lot of different things.
00:34:38
Speaker
It's just like, do you want to go into a World Cup with your hopes riding on a 17 year old who has never played in a World Cup? It's tough. It's a it's a big, big ask. I feel like the way Mexicana play is is pretty structured. And it's kind of like, look, if you can get on the ball and force the issue, you can this is your canvas to like kind of have a ah breakout World Cup moment. I wanted to ask about Fidalgo. like What's the expectation for him? i was kind of sleeping on his inclusion here. like
00:35:11
Speaker
Could he be a difference maker to kind of also do some of that connecting? Yeah, totally. I mean, I think he, I always called him a do it all midfielder with America because it just seemed like any time the ball was toward one of the boxes, he was there and it doesn't really matter which one, you know, he's, he's getting forward to create opportunities. He's getting back to stop opportunities. You know, I,
00:35:32
Speaker
Ideally, you would have had more chemistry with him and Edson, if that's your holding midfielder. He's played with Eric Lira now, who is an interesting player. think also another guy who's bound for Europe after this World Cup. So yes, Fidalgo is a huge piece. I think he'll start. That's great. look like there's a lot of time between these games I think like managers will probably be less likely to rotate as much as we saw in previous tournaments although maybe managers have too much time to think and they're like you know what I'm gonna make nine changes like I think it probably depends on the manager Juan Carlos Osorio the former Mexico manager can we get the colored pens back. He's on the coverage in Mexico, so he won't be able to make 11 changes, but he would.
00:36:16
Speaker
He would. you know that's that's what That's what his style would be. Aguirre, I think, is much more likely to stick with a starting lineup. And I think Fidalgo will start at that game against South Africa in the opening in the in the World Cup opener because I think he can be that important. and And it's just been so clear that Mexico needs these linking players. Charlie Rodriguez, a guy who like fans absolutely hate, was like kind of filling that role. But like,
00:36:39
Speaker
He's hated because he gives the ball away in important positions and he doesn't seem to be able to not pass to the opponent and he doesn't really get forward and arrive all the time like Fidalgo does. So just the fact that like Charlie didn't make this final training camp and Fidalgo is an option I think is is going to be, you're going to see my suspicion. If Edson is healthy, my suspicion is your starting midfield trio is Edson, Fidalgo and Mora, but we'll see. I mean, there there's some good balance there. I think you can beast out, defend, but then also have two guys that you can kind of let them do what they need to do Use their, you know, it's not super structured, but in a way that's pretty um low risk. I think that's this, this Mexico team. It's a high floor. It's not a super high ceiling. i worry about them generating chances against the best teams. Yeah.
00:37:31
Speaker
I don't think the teams these three teams in this group are going to be a problem, but I also don't think they're going to want to have the ball and play against the low block for 80 minutes. I think they kind of want it to be sort of transitional and...
00:37:46
Speaker
be up one if they can steal one off a set piece, but not commit numbers forward to go get one. That is not what Javier Aguirre wants to do. So I think they're going to kind of be boring in a good way.
00:37:58
Speaker
i This is is an okay spot for them to be. Yeah, and I think my kind of final point on Mexico and my big question, John, and and this is a question that we've asked of a lot of these teams as we've done these group stage previews is all right, what's the plan B? so you've laid out a really good scenario, right? Javier Aguirre has his team. They're going to be solid defensively. We're going to try and find some service for Raul Jimenez. We've got these young players.
00:38:22
Speaker
Mexico go down a goal and you kind of have to throw that out the window. Is there that ability to shift to that? Do they have that ability to thrive or even survive in a tactics-free kind of 10 or 15 minutes chasing a goal? Is that something you think Mexico can do or is that going to be a big issue if that's what happens? You've watched Liga Mackey's.
00:38:41
Speaker
These guys can that for sure. It's just like, do they do they have the the talent to to pull something like that off against a great team? a guy we haven't mentioned yet is Alexis Vega, who's coming off an injury, but like that's what he does. what What position does he play for Toluca? I mean, he's their 10, he's their playmaker, but he's also sometimes a winger. Sometimes he's the center forward when Paulinho's out. like He can just kind of do a little bit of everything, but structure's not his bag. And that's why I think he hasn't really slotted in well to the Mexico national team.
00:39:11
Speaker
Even in 2022, he was on the roster, he started in el the and in group games. He was ah he was like a key player, but like he's been phenomenal for Toluca since he got back. He went to Chivas, it didn't go well. He went back to Toluca where he he came up and like he's been unbelievably good. and so like He's a chaos agent and he should be on the field and you want him on the field in those type of moments.
00:39:36
Speaker
There's other guys that like kind of fit into that mold in a way, not doing the same things on the field as Vega, but like Julian Quinones looks awesome in Saudi as a center forward. He also played winger in the M X. Like you can see him doing a little bit of everything and and being the player who can get those transition moments where it's like, all right, we won the ball. We need a goal. Like, how do we get the ball forward? Like Quinones can take it there. Right. So I think there is an opportunity to, to kind of be okay in those late game unstructured situations. It's just that the, the defensive base really thrives in that, like we are controlling things. Everything is fine. We have this managed. So I do wonder, like if you are in that situation, yeah, maybe you find the goal. How do you avoid also giving up the goal? Right. So, um,
00:40:26
Speaker
Yeah, but I mean, look, like I think what we're talking around is like, it's a good team, it's not a great team. They should be able to win this group. They're probably not going to be able to win the World Cup, right? Like they're just kind of in that that middle ground that a lot of teams are in.
00:40:42
Speaker
Yeah. I think they have, as you said, enough attacking talent to chase. They're just a little old and slow down the spine. i think that's what's going to be the hardest thing to overcome when you have to sell out a little bit. You're asking guys to defend um with less numbers in space. So, yeah, I think we are all spot on about this team.
00:41:03
Speaker
Let's see what if anyone here can trouble them.
South Korea's World Cup Journey and Key Players
00:41:06
Speaker
Yeah, let's talk about the team that came out of pot two in this group, I admit, and that is South Korea. It's their 12th World Cup, 12 in a row since 1986. They had a famous fourth place finish in 2002 on home soil in that World Cup that they shared with Japan.
00:41:18
Speaker
In 2022, they lost in the round of 16 after they beat Portugal on in the final match day to qualify. They beat Germany on the final day of the group stage in 2018, but they did not advance. Their qualification campaign was perfectly fine. In the second round, they were far better than China, Thailand, and Singapore.
00:41:37
Speaker
They went 5-1-0. They got to the third round, and they were okay. They they won six. They drew four. They had three consecutive draws against Jordan, Iraq, and Oman, which is not a great place to be. Palestine and Kuwait gave them some trouble.
00:41:50
Speaker
They a poor Asian Cup with bad results against Bahrain, Jordan, and Malaysia. They then kind of rallied from that, got by the the saudi arabia got by Saudi Arabia, they got through Australia, and then Jürgen Klinsmann kind of completely blew everything up, and they lost 2-0 to Jordan with a non-Japan semifinal on the other side.
00:42:07
Speaker
Massive missed opportunity. Jurgen Klinsmann is not the manager. That would have been really fun. Instead, it's Hong Minbo, former defender. He's got Korean domestic league experience, took over in 2024, qualified relatively smoothly, but there's been a lot of chatter.
00:42:19
Speaker
There were some crisis points in the middle of qualification. Hasn't lost the match, but am it doesn't really inspire confidence. And I think that's kind of the overall sentiment of this South Korea team. They're looking to get out of the group.
00:42:32
Speaker
Depending on what happens if they do that, they could maybe win a knockout game. But much like Mexico, they are kind of here at this World Cup and will leave their mark. But it's hard to envision them being a dark horse candidate to make a long run.
00:42:46
Speaker
Yeah, I'm not sure this is a great dark horse team. They're a team that for what you remember about them from past World Cups and your your memories of them, they're focused on their superstar.
00:42:58
Speaker
Sun Heung-min was at Tottenham for a long time, had some great World Cup moments. You remember those great games against Portugal and Germany at the World Cup where South Korea kind of you know, claim some big scalps.
00:43:09
Speaker
It was him running in behind and you know, scoring these late dramatic goals and being very cathartic. And the issue is now he's, the team is still kind of built around him and he is, i'm just not that exact half step speed he needs. And i think to, to illustrate that we just saw a great CCL semifinal LAFC versus Toluca,
00:43:35
Speaker
And it's clear what LAFC wanted to do was have Sun Hoon Min hang off the center backs, run in behind and score. And Toluca just kind of caught up to him too many times.
00:43:47
Speaker
John, you you saw that game. How do you think it held up? I think there's two interesting things from that game. One is that he was erased at altitude.
00:43:58
Speaker
And two is that I think Korea is quite happy that he didn't make the final of the CONCACAF Champions Cup so he can join up with their camp yeah at altitude. So yeah I think that that's something they're really, really concerned about. I did an interview with some Korean friends, Steve Han, a great, ah maybe he'll be a guest on the show at one point. Um,
00:44:16
Speaker
And he said, like, but they're worried about the altitude in Guadalajara. I'm like, what? Then I look and I'm like, oh, yeah, I guess. like But that's just not in Mexico. That's not what you think of as a high place. Toluca's high. Mexico City is high. Pachuca is somewhat high. Like Guadalajara, eh. So I think that they want to get him rested because he looks exhausted.
00:44:34
Speaker
And I think they want to get him ready for the altitude because there is some altitude there. And I think that, like, when you have a... attacking system that's so dependent on one player and especially like when you talk about like mexico's biggest weakness we said who's the right back that's probably gonna be as far away is playing a little bit out of position or totally out of position but like he's done it before but like That's what you want to do in that game is have Sun run at the right back for Mexico. And like, Hayes going to out of the lead space as well on the left side because he likes to push up. But like, you have a system that's really dependent on one guy. So I think that they really want him to be feeling like he's breathing heavy, heavy air, right? Is that how it works? But, you I'm also a little concerned because like, you know, think about like, well, he's in thin air, but he feels like he's breathing heavy, right? Yeah, I got But, you know, like I do think sometimes the teams can think about that too much, right? Yeah. that can be sometimes a mental thing. Like, remember the Columbus crew and they're like tense or whatever. And then they went to Pachuca and it was like, oh, yeah, I did it. You've helped the pieces come together, John. I've understood the South Korea BYU crossover we're getting because South Korea are playing two friendlies in Provo ahead of the World Cup. And all the pieces have come into place and it's all making sense now. So this South Korea team, they are very sun-centric. That might be a problem.
00:45:55
Speaker
But there are some pieces that could help behind that if they're given the opportunity to shine. Yeah, I think Lee Kang-in at PSG, you know he's a great rotational player for them. And I mean that in a nice way. like They play a lot of guys. They don't put a lot of mileage on their players in Ligoon. And he comes in, he kind of just does a little bit of everything. Good crosser, good dribbler, good runner. Huang Hee-chan is very, very fast. He's a striker-winger hybrid.
00:46:26
Speaker
not having a great season at Wolves. Wolves not even having a great season. just not a good sign, I would say. i don't think he's you know a great player. But again, you have a guy that can run off Sun. And the kind of theme of this Korea team is their work rate.
00:46:40
Speaker
They press very hard. They run very hard. They're not very physical, but they make up for that by covering ground. And I think that's why you see why they're obsessed with this altitude. Because for them, if their work rate drops and their effectiveness on the front line drops, they can't protect their back line where they are...
00:47:00
Speaker
not as physical and, you know, against duels and challenges. And if they can kind of close the the field against you, then they can turn you over and get verticality. They don't really like thrive when you're putting a lot of pressure on their back line. They're not a great defense. We saw them quite vulnerable ah in the Asian cup.
00:47:19
Speaker
um So I think there's a lot on this frontline and midfield to just, be very, very rabid chasing the ball. And a lot of that's on Sung Kim Min, who did that for a long time his career. It's a lot to ask your best attacking player to also lead a press. And that's where against Toluca, I mean, he was e was gassed. He was very gassed.
00:47:38
Speaker
But Amit, we've seen the kind of World Cup throwback performances, right? Like, we've seen it with players. I think of like, I guess, Hamas Rodriguez kind of qualifies for this. But players can still show up for these big moments because you don't have to be good for three months to have a huge effect on a World Cup. You have to be good for 10 days, right, to have a big effect on the World Cup. Could we see a throwback San Hunmin performance at this World Cup? Or do you think that step is just not there?
00:48:06
Speaker
No, I think it's there for sure. I think he's been managing his physicality. There's a reason why he went to LAFC and not... I think he could have stayed in Europe at a bunch of clubs and been a solid striker. He's feasted on MLS back lines. Toluca is a better back line than almost everyone in MLS. They spend more money on their defense.
00:48:25
Speaker
um I think the other thing you saw is free kicks. He can be a very, very game-changing player on that. And even though you know he I think what's good about him is he's he's always been an elite finisher. So like if if things kind of go wrong, they just need to get the ball at his feet. Easier said than done. But let him make that moment of magic. The whole system doesn't necessarily have to rely on his work grade. He could just be a finisher if they can do that. It's going to be a hard group to do that in.
00:48:52
Speaker
um Talk about the other two players I think are going to be key to them. Really three, but... Kim Min-jae is a defender center back at Bayern Munich. He kind of got pushed out of the rotation this year behind Upa Makano and Jonathan Ta.
00:49:07
Speaker
I think there was a lot of hype around him coming in He's very, very fast for a center back, ah but he ah is just not as good a defender as the other guys. Here he is the best defender by far. They've also switched to a back three. So he's going to have two guys around him that are okay.
00:49:26
Speaker
Uh, one playing in UAE, Cho Yu Min, and one playing in Norway, Lee Han Byom. They're fine, but their outside backs are part of the running and the crossing and the chasing the ball. That's Lee Taesuk and Seol Young Woo. Uh, Um, those guys I think are so massive of the system and helping like a team. If you're relying less on son, you need the wingbacks and a back three to play, ah get up and down the field. I think they're going to be the key players here.
00:49:53
Speaker
The midfield is fine. They're not going to mistake anyone. I think they're going to be physically overpowered perhaps by all the other three teams in the group. So you're really asking to the wingbacks and the forwards to cover a lot of ground. I think that's the key for them.
00:50:05
Speaker
But it also works in their favor here, Mitt, that there's not that high-level group monster sitting at the top of the table that's going to probably just buzzsaw them in the midfield, right? You look at the other three teams in the group, they're they're going to be able to ask questions, they're going to be able to make things difficult.
00:50:20
Speaker
But it's not as though France are sitting there to hang three goals on you and in 60 minutes, right? And so that kind of is where the opportunity here lies for South Korea. And that's probably what has them optimistic heading towards the tournament.
00:50:35
Speaker
Yeah, optimism is a tough word. The vibes have been bad, I think, in South Korea for for a year. They were bad in qualifying when they kind of stumbled. The friendly results were bad. They really threw in a stinker. I think a 4-0 or 4-1 to Ivory Coast was a really concerning result. Yeah, March was not good.
00:50:53
Speaker
Yeah, a loss to Austria, a team that that gets up and down. And it was like, well, you need to have a style to hang your hat on. And the style is they're also kind of a pressing, aggressive team.
00:51:07
Speaker
And that if that if that effectiveness drops at all, what can they hang their hat on? And, you know, every team says when when things go wrong, what do we do? We we defend, bunker, and counter.
00:51:20
Speaker
Great. Like, everyone can do that, but they're they're not even good at that. They are not, again, a very good physical defensive team. They need to attack. um They need to score two goals. They need to, you know, have the game open.
00:51:34
Speaker
They'll have their chances to do that. So, like, this group is a chance for them to do anything. And I think, again, as we talked about this group, they can win a game. But the vibes are not great. I just, I struggled to see them.
00:51:47
Speaker
Now, Sun Heung-min does a moment and things are all great. So like, there's there's a little hope needed. There's a little magic needed, which is not good, but not impossible.
00:51:59
Speaker
John, it certainly does feel like it's been a while since we've seen South Korea's best. And it does feel like it's a team that we haven't seen maybe hit the heights that we could have expected from them at recent major international tournaments.
00:52:12
Speaker
No, definitely. I mean, I think the vibes have been bad since the Asian Cup. And yeah, qualification was kind of whatever. And then you get the shifting managers. I think the the federation always seems it's one of those federations that always seems to be beefing with the players who also seem to be beefing with someone else. like it just It never seems like everyone's really singing from the same hymn sheet.
00:52:34
Speaker
look, like maybe that needs to happen for them to get better in the future, but you do have Sun still. And i I sense that there could be a moment for him, but that ultimately you also need ah a generational shift and a new change and kind of like the new cycle will be welcome, I think. They're clearly not there yet. I'm not saying to push Sun out to pasture at all. I think he will be good at this tournament.
00:52:59
Speaker
But, um... Yeah, it's one of those like where it just seems like, ah, yeah, there's not that much around him right now. And there are some, oh my gosh, we've got so many guys in Europe and so many guys are going to academies. And like the enthusiasm is there, but it hasn't quite hit yet as far as what they're expecting to to come.
00:53:19
Speaker
The third team in this group is an interesting one in South Africa, making their fourth
South Africa's World Cup Path and Style
00:53:23
Speaker
World Cup appearance. First time since they hosted the tournament in 2010. They have never advanced past the group stage. They were good in African qualifying. They topped Nigeria and Benin on the last day of their cap group.
00:53:33
Speaker
Would have been easier had it not been for a three-point production they received for playing Tabojo Mokwena when he should have been suspended against Lesotho. That turned a 2-0 win into a 3-0 loss, which put them on the path where they had to get a result on the last day. But they got that result, and they are here at the World Cup because it.
00:53:48
Speaker
Nothing to write home about their AFCON campaign. They were second in their group, went out in the round of 16 against Cameroon. They are going to try to get out of the group. The numbers may not give them a great chance of that. They could perhaps see where the third place cards land.
00:54:01
Speaker
Hugo Bruce, the Belgian, is their manager. He's been their manager since 2021, and he will retire after this World Cup. I bet he's a nose-frills manager, like kind of the other teams in this group. They're they're not going to be the best team here, but they probably won't be the worst team here either.
00:54:15
Speaker
They are not quite defensive enough to make defense work. They're not quite chaotic enough to make chaos work, but they are relatively consistent when it comes to it. And their best player is probably their nine in Lyle Foster, and that's not a terrible situation to be in.
00:54:31
Speaker
It's okay. Lyle Foster's at Burnley and he's had a good season. Burnley are in the Premier League. They're going down. He hasn't been able to help them, but he is a he is a he's he's not out of place in the Premier League. I think he's a very fine striker and he definitely, when you watch him against calf opposition, you know, he's very, very talented. You know, he's a good all-around player, runner, presser, finisher, doesn't do anything elite.
00:54:57
Speaker
That's kind of what you're getting out of Seth Iwerin. Your best player is like just a good all-around forward. This team doesn't really like do anything particularly well, which I think you said like well. They just kind of... like run out there and, and, you know, contest every ball, the field and they like transition. I say they're not great at chaos, but I do think because they're not as great as closing a game down in general, they prefer openness. This team prefers goals, prefers to transition, to let their, their midfielders um kind of get up and down the wings and you know, foster, you know,
00:55:36
Speaker
he he it's not like He's not a great, you cross the ball to him, but can they get the ball to his feet at the top of the box and he can make a play for someone else? And they like to get some shots up too. like they're just They're opportunistic.
00:55:47
Speaker
um Consistent is funny because, again, like this is not the model of a great team, but they were better than everyone else that they had to be in qualifying. And so like they've I think they've earned consistent perhaps because their foil was a very inconsistent team that we know in Nigeria and The consistency was obviously put highlighted by the fact that they they shared a group with Nigeria. John, there's plenty of history for South Africa and Mexico, especially with an opening game of the World Cup. they We're running that back. and Amit mentioned firing shots off, firing shots off in thin air is not always the worst strategy.
00:56:21
Speaker
No, no, totally. I mean, I'm i'm trying to track down Shalala for an interview and it looks like he just has the coolest life. Like he's like an ambassador for like betting companies, but he's also just like, I'm on vacation with my beautiful wife. And it's like, nice dude. That's cool. I think I'll probably be at the world cup through some sort of partnership, but you know, definitely some vibes and some memories there.
00:56:40
Speaker
Yeah, sure. you can You can fire off shots from distance. I don't know that Mexico is going to be too bothered by that. I think that when I've watched this team in African qualification, i do think like, it sounds harsh, but like bland is the word that comes to mind when I think about like how you sum up South Africa. I think it's a bland team.
00:57:00
Speaker
And I don't know that bland teams, like if you said like efficient teams, like yeah, they go through at the World Cup. but like do bland teams? I don't think so. So I understand the analytical ah numbers hate for South Africa. I don't hate them. I just don't think they should do anything exciting.
00:57:17
Speaker
Yeah. Efficient teams is what we're talking about. Like with England, like you can use efficient for England. I don't think we can really use that word here. Can we have admit? No. And just to to speak on the models, which we're going to talk to at the end, have South Africa is pretty firmly the fourth team.
00:57:33
Speaker
best rated team here is that a lot of the players play domestically in South Africa, which is a very, very tough thing for the computers to get at. Where do you put that league? And I think the league is a little bit better than I've thought.
00:57:47
Speaker
ah We saw the sundowns at club world cup. They were frisky. But they were not great. um And I think you're starting to see a few pipelines come. right I'm really excited about Mbekeli and Bokazi at the Chicago Fire.
00:58:02
Speaker
The Philadelphia Union, my hometown team, also have a South African center back. oh Makanya and he's not even in the picture because the South African manager like doesn't rate MLS. he like Mbokazi is an exception for him because of how good he is. and like If that's kind of the the the attitude towards that, that's not great because those are the kind of pathways that I think South African players should be chasing. It's not a team with a lot of your representation to your representation. And the models are like, do you play in a top five league in Europe? up Do you play in the next leagues? Do you play in Liga Amekis? Do you play in MLS?
00:58:41
Speaker
These are the best. Or do you do play in South America? These are the best leagues. They don't have players there. So like you have to be really surprising the development pathway. And this is not that team.
00:58:54
Speaker
They're mostly domestic-based guys that play well together. Is that reliable at this stage? it's going to be hard. I think the the best case for them is like they get into open games and they just score more goals because the ball bounces their way. That is like not reliable, but it can happen.
00:59:16
Speaker
I mean, you buried the lead with Embakazi. got TLB tractor loader backhoe here. Super physical in defense. How can you bury that lead? He's a great center back. His MLS tape has been really good. He's part of the fires. I think of resurgence under Greg Berhalter.
00:59:31
Speaker
He also will shoot from distance. That is one of their, he will carry the ball. So he could be like a fun player, especially in a team that likes to get up and down. But is that what you want your center back to do? I don't know.
00:59:43
Speaker
Mokwena, who we mentioned earlier, was was at the the center of that controversy. He should start in a holding midfield spot. Jaden Adams, Yaya Sitole should be options alongside him. There's a lot of different kind of combo midfield attacking options. You've got a trio of guys at Orlando Pirates in South Africa with Apolis, Moremi, and Mofokeng.
01:00:01
Speaker
couple of guys outside of South Africa, Apuel in Cyprus. You've got Palopo Maseko. Minnesota United has Bangukule Longwe. Mokwena. There's no secrets, I think, for the South Africa team. They're coming up a bit against teams that are more talented than they are. The approach is probably going to be something resembling defense, low event, counter, try to get an opportunity.
01:00:23
Speaker
And then when you have to open the game up, open it up and hope that you score. As you kind of alluded to, can you do that effectively three times in a group stage? You can, but it's not easy. It's a decent group of teams to try it against.
01:00:37
Speaker
All right. Closing out this group, we move to
Czech Republic's Unexpected World Cup Entry
01:00:40
Speaker
Czech Republic. Or is it Czechia? I think both will work. FIFA will say Czech Republic. In hockey, it's Czechia. don't know. But they're making their 10th World Cup appearances if you and give them the inherited Czechoslovakia appearances. It's their second in this outfit. 2026 is their first time since 2006. A lost generation, really, for Czech football past that that Peter Cech, Thomas Rosicki, Pavel Medved era.
01:01:01
Speaker
They are the last team standing from European qualifying. A very weird qualifying campaign for the Czechs. They had five wins in a draw in qualifying against Croatia and then also the Faroe Islands, of Montenegro and Gibraltar. They lost a game to the Faroe Islands. They got smoked 5-1 by Croatia.
01:01:19
Speaker
But they got themselves into the European qualifiers and they were okay once they got there. They knew they were going to be a playoff team. They prepared for that situation. And they unvibed Ireland from a 2-0 deficit to win on penalties.
01:01:32
Speaker
And then admit they went and they game-stated Denmark and won on penalties again. a pair of 2-2 draws. They are here at the World Cup. I think, for my money, they're the worst European team. But I also think that's still worth something here. And there's a team.
01:01:46
Speaker
Yeah, this team is very hard to contextualize like exactly where their their talent lies. I do think they are the the worst European team here. But again, some of these players are Europa League conference level guys. A lot of these guys are in the Czech Domestic League at Sparta Prague. Yeah. That's the the biggest club. it's ah It's a solid club. We've seen it kind of pop out ah in the Champions League group stage.
01:02:11
Speaker
um And then they have a few guys at Lyon in Germany, a few Premier League players, like two. How does that compare to like what South Korea has or what Mexico has? I think it's fascinating. I think there's a case here that this team on talent is close to Mexico,
01:02:31
Speaker
i I don't believe that. I'm just saying there's a case. And there's also a case that Pastor Cheek is the best player in this group. ah The striker at Bayer Leverkusen, who is kind of a very consistent Bundesliga goal scorer. I think that's where things start for this team. You think about the same conversation we had about Raul Jimenez.
01:02:50
Speaker
Same conversation for Patrick Sheik. He is a very good number nine, runs in the box, needs service. um Great finisher. I think even ah even better finisher than than Jimenez. I think less athletic than Jimenez. But if you get him the ball in the box enough times, can he can he still use some goals? Yeah.
01:03:08
Speaker
This team is dangerous. I just want to start there. This team is dangerous in this group because they just kind of backed their way in here. And the way they backed their way through those two games and qualifying, it literally was like two coin flips.
01:03:21
Speaker
And they so they kind of have some house money. And I think this team is a bit scary. John, as far as being the least talented European team at this World Cup, you couldn't have asked for a better group for the Czechs to come into because, as Amit said, they're not going to get outclassed, I think, by by any of these three teams in this possibility.
01:03:40
Speaker
And their kind of physical, gamey, muck-it-up style will kind of fit right into where this group as a whole seems to be going. Yeah, you guys are getting me on excited for the World Cup here. I think it just seems like this is ah this is a group of, you know, and I don't know, a group of mess instead of the group of death, I guess. Like, yeah, I think the Czech team, like, I'm surprised they're here. When you watch the playoff, you're like, oh, yeah, Ireland's a better team. They got this. And then they didn't. And then it's like, oh, Denmark is more talented. They got this. And then they also didn't. But, you know, look, like,
01:04:14
Speaker
results are real and that's why it's like in a way I think that March sort of opened my eyes to be like alright I guess like maybe these guys do have something the other weird thing is like we'll talk about the vibes like they also seem bad ah i don't know what they were bad i don't know if you saw this story that just happened as well and I'm totally not but this guy Thomas Chory like a ah regular who had again been suspended for punching a goalkeeper in the nuts ah several months ago, threw an elbow in the derby this weekend. And like the commission the the chairman of the club is like, he's never playing for us again. This is ridiculous.
01:04:57
Speaker
He's in the provisional roster. like Is that good vibes with the other guys from the Prague teams? like I don't know. i'm I'm very puzzled by this team. I'm puzzled by how it all comes together. But it seems to be that they're doing something right.
01:05:11
Speaker
Or they just found lightning in a bottle twice in March. Right, Amit? We can't answer that question until we see these games. and i You know, there's a massive fraud alert for for this team, but there's also the massive, like, did they just kind of roll it out there and the ball bounces their way? Could that happen again, right? So it's dangerous in that sense. um I think the other the things to to watch for them, you know, their center back, Ladislav Krejci, had Wolves. He's fine.
01:05:39
Speaker
um Vladimir Kufal right back at Hoffenheim, good attacking ah threat. Thomas Susak at West Ham is the second best player here. He is a very like average Premier League center midfielder.
01:05:51
Speaker
Guess what? That goes a long way in a World Cup. And I think this team in particular is going to also be a set piece threat. They were um in you Europe. That's kind of how they nick some goals by being...
01:06:03
Speaker
very uninspiring in the passage of play, but effective when it counts. Susak is a threat. Sheik is a threat. Krejci is a threat. Pavel Such is a good shooter of the ball.
01:06:14
Speaker
um So they're there. You've seen this team before to me, spiritually, a lot like Poland and that we've seen at world cups. They're just the third tier of European team. They're not going to beat themselves. They're not going to anything inspiring, but they're tough. They're a tough out. And sometimes I can get you a long way.
01:06:32
Speaker
And again, i'm so i feel bad for John that we've we've made him uninspired or unexcited about
Anticipation and Key Matches in Group A
01:06:39
Speaker
this World Cup. But I just think even if the football might not be the prettiest, i think we're going to get a lot of goals in this group because these four teams outside of Mexico have to play. They have to score. They want to get through. And that could be fun. It could be like great chaos and drama.
01:06:56
Speaker
Yeah, what's the worst thing that can happen in a World Cup group is that somebody is good enough to shut the game down. And John, I don't know if any of these four teams, Mexico maybe, are good enough to shut a game down.
01:07:07
Speaker
Yeah, I think, all right, I'm back. you know i I think the group is also like really benefiting from it being in Mexico. Well, i mean, there's some games in Atlanta as well. But I think that they'll get some good vibes from that as well. It'll be good energy.
01:07:23
Speaker
Can I talk you into a Czech Republic, South Africa at Mercedes-Benz Stadium in Atlanta on at noon on June 18th, John? I mean, I try and watch every single game, but I do have a quite extensive calendar June 18th. Actually, I don't have a game that day. I'll be back from England, Croatia. So I'll see you there.
01:07:44
Speaker
All right, great. Let's do it. um All right, I mean, if you can only watch one game from this, do you have anything else? do we want do do want to do another Patrick Schick bit? I feel like we did the Patrick Schick bit. Do you want to do it again? No, I don't need to do it again. The only thing I'll add is you just have to give a shout out to Matej Kovar at PSV. One, two penalty shootouts could be six, e six, five could be a difference maker if you need steal a steel saver here or there.
01:08:08
Speaker
Ronwyn Williams for South Africa is also somebody we did mention the goalkeepers in this group. I think it's a pretty interesting quartet of of goalkeepers that we could see, uh, making an impact here. All right. I mean, only one game from this group. Which one are you tuning into? Is it Czech Republic, uh, South Africa at Mercedes Benz stadium in Atlanta?
01:08:25
Speaker
No, listen, there's an opener here. It's Mexico, South Africa. It was an opener. The scenes are great. I mean, can we make sure, can we get Peter Drury on Fox so that if someone scores, he can say a goal for all America and light the world on fire? He's not going to say that. But ah it was an iconic moment in 2010. There could be another iconic moment. And I think it's, you know, there's pressure on Mexico. Like, it either will be a very satisfying, like, tense pressure cooker or, like, a very cathartic, like, satisfying for Mexico. Like, pressure's off. We have a moment. where're We're leading the group. where Things are looking good.
01:09:03
Speaker
and Like, that's the stuff you wait you've been waiting years for that opening match. It's got to be that one, right? John, I know you'll be at the Azteca for that match. I can't imagine you have another selection here.
01:09:13
Speaker
No, no, no. I mean, I think, you know, we're joking and and I'll be listening to all the preview coverage that you guys are putting out that everybody else is putting out. I'll be writing some of it. But like, honestly, as much fun as tournament buildup is, like the best moment is when the ball starts rolling. And that's like absolutely the biggest moment in a long, long time.
01:09:32
Speaker
Even Qatar with like after COVID and it was fantastic. in Qatar and it was just far away. you know like The vibes ended up being good with that tournament because of how good the actual on-field action was. But I'm super, super excited for this game. And not only that, but look you look at the the menu, the rest of the offer in the group, like there could be some cool permutations. I think Mexico-Korea also will be...
01:09:54
Speaker
that That to me is like probably the best game on the field. I think it'll be really interesting to watch how, again, Son gets after the back line. How does Mexico try and counter that? And again, like in Guadalajara, where the the the national team of Mexico is like liked but not necessarily loved in the same way that like maybe other cities love it. I think um that game will be the best on the field, but there's there's no beating the vibes and the the pageantry and the atmosphere of that first game.
01:10:21
Speaker
I would triple the point that you guys have made, but I would also put a little bit out there for South Korea, Czechia on the first day in Guadalajara. There's always that shift in energy from like, you have all of the pressure and the tension of the opening match. And it's like, oh, it's football and it's back.
01:10:37
Speaker
And then you kind of settle into like normal World Cup business. And I think... Here in Argentina, 11 p.m. kickoff, South Korea, Czechia might not be full in Guadalajara.
01:10:48
Speaker
The after dark vibes will be very high with that game something could be going on there or I could suffer myself and sit through a deal. I don't know. We'll see. I did want to at least ah make a point for that match. All right, quickly a minute to close out the show.
01:11:00
Speaker
The numbers here are, as you kind of alluded to earlier, South Africa not viewed as a great chance to get out of this group. Mexico, Korea, and Czechia all minus money. Mexico very heavy favorites. is Is there anything that we should know about these numbers? Anything that the computers maybe are seeing that we're not, other than maybe ah underrating the Orlando Pirates and Mamalodi Sundowns?
01:11:23
Speaker
Yeah, look, South Africa is plus money. That's less than 50% chance to get through. um i think that's probably right. The only thing is it thinks Korea and Czechia are about equal. And based on the vibes and talking about the players and the talent...
01:11:39
Speaker
I think there's a little bit of value in Czechia over Korea where you can find that value. You can try to do second or third. You could go for a Mexico one, Czechia two. you know, if you're into that sort of thing, let's see. I think that's an interesting game.
01:11:53
Speaker
um I feel like it it'd be a shocker if those three don't get through. Like even the team in third should find a way. um Maybe South Africa throw a wrench in that.
01:12:05
Speaker
Yeah, goals against South Africa. It's the thing that we've talked about a lot on this show. What you do against the perceived worst team in your group is going to go a long way to determining who goes through in third place. All right, John, we've taken up a lot of your time. I wanted to thank you once again for coming on the show. It's been a pleasure as always to have you. We love chatting with you.
01:12:22
Speaker
ah Do you want to tell the people what what they can expect from you during the
John Arnold's World Cup Coverage Plans
01:12:25
Speaker
World Cup? It sounds like it's going to be a lot. It is going to be a lot. I will be at that opening game and I'll be at lots of games in Dallas. And then I'll be following an old man named Lionel Messi. I'll be with Argentina for most of the tournament. Actually, all of the tournament, if they make it all the way. So we'll see. It'll be fun to chronicle that on USA Today.
01:12:43
Speaker
I would say, like, if you really want to keep up, I'm at John Arnold FC. No H and John on TikTok, Instagram and Blue Sky. I still kind of tweeted Arnold Kamajan, but it's very sporadic. So I'm going to try and keep the videos going. And and that's like more... like I talk a lot about soccer, but there's some behind the scenes and I'll try and you know drink some coffee in interesting places and and that stuff that I've done in past tournaments too. So check... Obviously read my work at USA Today, but like it's USA Today. You're probably already clicking that article. So find the socials, enjoy me drinking a coffee and and I'll talk to you all
01:13:18
Speaker
And John, Amit, is is one of the best World Cup followers for the color of international football. And I think that's one of the things that obviously you and I love so much about this podcast is it goes so much beyond just the ball rolling on the pitch. And that's obviously what brings us all together. That's obviously what we like. But we like the color and the story behind it and the packed stadium that you didn't expect to be packed in a random place around the world. And for me personally, there are very few people other than John that I would rather have telling that story. So great on the socials. It's what you'd like to see.
01:13:45
Speaker
I mean, hopefully I'm... You know, like we are going to be surprised by like I saw a list today of like the countries that won't be at the World Cup because, you know, Haiti can't get visas in the US, which is yeah a travesty.
01:13:58
Speaker
But like that's the situation. Haiti's fans will be there. Like we are going to see Haiti fans in the tournament being exciting and doing things. If you're buying into this idea that like, oh, no, Haitians will be. That's not right.
01:14:09
Speaker
No new Haitians will be there. for Like there will be Haitians and that's going to be an awesome scene. I don't know about Curacao. Not so sure about the Curacao fans, but but you know like I think they'll win over the neutrals for at least five minutes and and then we'll see how that goes. I'm sorry, I'm not trying to turn this into our Curacao group preview episode, but there are going to be great color stories of the World Cup that that we'll be able to focus on as well. and like I think y'all are kind of like me where sometimes qualifying is actually a little more fun in the World Cup, but once the World Cup happens, you're like, no, I actually think this is pretty darn good too. Yeah.
01:14:41
Speaker
Yeah, and then you get to match day three and there's just goals flying in and you're running a a live third place table to try and keep track of everything. And you're just like, oh, do they got a guy because we're the guy. yeah It's a good stuff. It's the good i's the World Cup. It's right around the corner.
Closing Remarks and Patreon Promotion
01:14:53
Speaker
ah If you like what we do here at the World Cup After Dark and want to support us, you can do that patreon.com. Patreon.com slash WCAD. New on the Patreon page, we have our World Cup preview hub. It's free for everybody to see. It's just a place where you can keep track of everything that Amit and I are putting out ahead of the tournament.
01:15:07
Speaker
We obviously had our our big 30,000 foot preview and then we'll have a preview of each of the 12 groups. We'll have a very poorly ah done prediction show that we'll do right at the end that will not certainly go bad right after we record it. But you'll definitely want to check that out ah so you can do the opposite of what we're going to do. I'm sure fading Amit's dark horse.
01:15:24
Speaker
Yes, we've already made that joke. I need to selectively choose my stink. every Every single day of course candidate that picked during qualification, you know, like you talked me into it, I'd be listening and be like, okay, maybe, maybe Venezuela is going to win. And then I'd just be like, no, no. Who's your African horse? Oh, did not go well.
01:15:47
Speaker
Boy, we started on the Ghanai hype train and then that broke down pretty early. So then we shifted to the Mali hype train and that also did not make it here. It's okay. It's okay. Sometimes you know too much, right? Sometimes you know too much. That's right. um But again, there's plenty of other preview content. so So if you're getting to us from John Arnold, there's plenty of more us if that's what you liked about this show. Or maybe you liked us and John Arnold. i don't know. Hopefully you enjoyed what you heard here today and hopefully we we covered this group well. There's plenty more from us and Amit and i will be back soon.
01:16:14
Speaker
Once again, as always, a ah big thanks to John for joining us.