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Pieta Brown
1.4k Plays1 year ago
The daughter of two preacher’s kids, Pieta Brown’s early upbringing in Iowa was in a rural outpost with no furnace, running water, or TV. There, she was exposed to traditional and rural folk music through her father, Greg Brown, the now beloved Midwestern folk singer. Later, while living with her mother in Birmingham, Alabama during her formative years, Pieta drew on and expanded these influences and began writing poems and composing instrumental songs on piano. By the time she left home at 18 she had lived in at least 19 different houses and apartments between Iowa and Alabama.
In her early 20's, after experiencing what she describes as "the songs calling,” Pieta started experimenting with the banjo and eventually picked up a 1930's Maybell arch-top guitar during a visit to her father's place and never looked back. Emerging from a disjointed and distinctly 'bohemian' upbringing, Pieta began performing live and making independent recordings soon after teaching herself how to play guitar. "I grew up around a lot of musicians and artists living on the fringe, and have always felt most at home among them," Pieta says.
Continually revealing new layers as both a songwriter and performer, Pieta is being recognized as one of modern Americana's true gems. In recent years Pieta has released multiple highly critically acclaimed albums, with much attention being paid not only to her distinct sound and style, but also the power of her singing and songwriting, including fan favorite Paradise Outlaw (2014 Red House, which Bon Iver master mind, Justin Vernon, called his “favorite recording made at our studio.”) Pieta has toured North America with Mark Knopfler, and toured various regions of the U.S., Australia and Canada with John Prine, Amos Lee, Brandi Carlisle, JJ Cale, Ani Difranco, Mavis Staples, and Calexico among others. She has co-written songs with and made recent guest appearances on albums by Calexico, Amos Lee, and Iris Dement, whose latest masterpiece Workin’ On A World (2023) Pieta co-produced. Pieta’s songs and music have been heard in various TV Shows and indie films including Everything Will Be Fine (Wim Wenders). With the release of her most recent album Freeway (September 2019, Righteous Babe) co-produced by Bon Iver drummer, S. Carey, followed by multiple experimental collaborations since with various artists including JT Bates, S.Carey, and Howe Gelb & The Colorist Orchestra, as well as a new instrumental based side-project she calls Sylvee & The Sea, Pieta’s music and artistry continue to rise.
~ "...a style and a sensuality that’s all her own...."- Pop Matters
~ "Among the top tier of songwriters today..." - FAME (Folk and Acoustic Music Exchange)
~ "...a gifted singer-songwriter whose lyrics are pieces of polished poetry" - Huffington Post
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Transcript
Introduction & Imagery
00:00:01
Speaker
You are listening to something rather than nothing. Creator and host Ken Volante. Editor and producer Peter Bauer.
00:00:45
Speaker
The way to the North Sea told to send you sparkling
00:00:51
Speaker
The sand told to see you grow The sea on your eyes said I'm just passing through And I follow you I follow you
00:01:24
Speaker
The wind told the clouds, steady now The clouds told the bells and the steeple, it's time The bells and the steeple told the sky, one, two
00:02:21
Speaker
You know it's true And the sand told me you're lonely too And the waves of the North Sea, they told me I'm fine
Setting & Guest Introduction
00:03:40
Speaker
Hey, one thing I was going to say too, since I am sitting on my back porch with the window open, if you get too much outside feedback noise or something, or there's any kind of sonic things, just let me know and I can try to reposition. Yeah. Well, is it Iowa sounds, first of all? Yes. Yeah, exactly. It might be nice to sit out here.
00:04:02
Speaker
Iowa sounds are fine. But if the industrial crane for some reason arrives, we'll chat. Yeah, the neighborhood tree chimer comes along or something. All right.
00:04:21
Speaker
This is Ken Vellante with the Something Rather Than Nothing podcast and I have the Pieda Brown singer artist here for you today. Pieda, welcome from Iowa. Hey, thanks for having me. Yeah, it's really nice to have you on the show in the background. Just so you know, I've listened to your music for years and
00:04:50
Speaker
Well, you know, I'm a really big fan and got to see you live. And some of the guests I have on the show, I'm just way excited to have. And you're in that category. Thank you so much.
Pieta's Artistic Journey
00:05:08
Speaker
So, Piedo, we're gonna talk about art, philosophy, talk about your music. One of the questions I ask is kind of a bit of identity. When did you see yourself as an artist? I know you grew up in a quite musical background, but did you have a day or inhabit a time when you're like, this is me, this is what I do, I'm an artist, I'm a musician.
00:05:38
Speaker
I think I always probably always identified as an artist without having a word for it. Just growing up the way I did. I grew up around so many musicians and artists really living on the fringe, like really living on a real fringe. And so I think
00:06:03
Speaker
that just was my worldview from early on. But I do, and I think it seems like as I've kind of gone along trying to get an angle on some of what being an artist is, I think a lot of artists I know kind of seem to identify as outsiders or feel outside of some kind of
00:06:32
Speaker
some kind of norm or something. I'm not even quite sure what you call that, but I know I always felt that since I can remember that kind of outsider feeling. But I do remember a very specific moment of time when I was in my early 20s and I had been living in New York City and I came back to Iowa
00:06:59
Speaker
just to visit different family and friends. And my dad was living here at the time. And I stayed with him, which actually that wasn't typical, but for some reason I was staying with him. And he showed me this guitar. It was a 1930s Mabel, Mabel archtop.
00:07:27
Speaker
guitar and I didn't really play guitar at that time. I mean, I had certainly picked them up and they were just like, you know, like members of the family. I mean, they were so familiar to me, but they were also these kind of mystical entities or something. Like I was a little bit
00:07:45
Speaker
shy or intimidated by them or something. But my dad would always show me guitars over the years that he had gotten. So I picked that one up and I was, like I said, I was staying there and I went upstairs
00:08:03
Speaker
and I took that guitar upstairs that night I remember and I tuned it open to my ear somehow I don't know I think it was I think we figured out later it was like an open D minor or something and I just I just never forget that moment because I started um you know playing the guitar and singing and these songs started arriving and
00:08:32
Speaker
I just remember thinking like, oh, yeah, this is what I'm supposed to do. And which was a weird thing to think, you know, because I was living in New York City doing all kinds of crazy jobs. And I was certainly doing lots of art and music related things, but I had never had a coherent vision like that. It was just really sudden. And so it was a really crystalline moment. And I really
00:09:00
Speaker
That just sort of took over and I haven't been clinging to that ever since. Oh, wow. That's a tough story to follow up, my goodness. That's Excalibur, you know, I was like a portal or something, you know, it's like that that
00:09:22
Speaker
that you hear people say like getting a calling or something. I mean, I don't know if that's what other people experience when they get that, but it was so clear and it certainly didn't make it any easier, right? Like it wasn't clear like in the daily realms of like, how am I gonna do this? And it still isn't, right? But I think that's part of what keeps you
00:09:47
Speaker
chasing that I guess that just that that inner clarity like wrestling with the outer reality worlds that aren't necessarily so clear yeah yeah well I you know in thinking about what you said you know as the artist as outsider and I just you know you mentioned New York City like for me I can kind of
00:10:12
Speaker
You know, trying to find your vibe and all that, but there's just kind of like this crystallization with the vessel, like the complimentary part for you. No, that's so beautiful. Do you play mostly acoustic guitar?
00:10:36
Speaker
You know, what's funny about that is actually right after that time, I went back to New York City for a little bit and then I ended up moving down to Arizona. And the first guitar I bought with my own money, you know, like the first guitar that I bought in a music store after that, you know, after that kind of realization feeling was
00:11:06
Speaker
a hollow body electric guitar. And I really just learned to play, really started to learn to play and teach myself guitar on electric guitars. And those were some of the first guitars that I played out in various configurations with different musicians. And I still love to play electric guitar, but
00:11:33
Speaker
somehow just yeah as I went along and maybe some of it was influenced by the musicians I ended up gravitating towards and playing with so many of them were really masterful electric guitar players and then something about when you're delivering the song a lot of times especially if you don't have drums and bass
00:11:56
Speaker
You know, acoustic guitar, I'm more like a drummer than a guitar player, really, I think. In a lot of ways, for me, it's kind of coming from some kind of groove thing. So some kind of melodic groove. And I think acoustic guitars are pretty great for that as far as being able to try to deliver a song. Yeah, I was surprised to hear you mentioned, you know, feeling more towards drumming. Yeah, I don't know. I mean,
00:12:27
Speaker
I'm really, obviously I'm not a drummer, but it seems like that is something about the acoustic guitar that I feel, you know, it definitely has that, there's like kind of a undercurrent of that rhythm thing that you can really get in an acoustic instrument and an acoustic guitars especially that I'm really drawn to. Yeah, yeah. Righteous Babe, Righteous Babe Records,
00:12:56
Speaker
Annie DeFranco's label, incredible, incredible, you know, Annie DeFranco and the label itself. Has there been, you know, on the outside for me, is there,
00:13:13
Speaker
What's the, has it been changed as far as contact with a label like that or an ethos that's there with Righteous Babe? You know, that was for me, that was just such an amazing timing and, oh gosh, just such a feeling of shelter, I guess. I don't know a better word for it.
00:13:43
Speaker
But at the time when that converged, I had recorded this album called Freeway. And I didn't actually really know how I was going to put it out because as kind of independent minded as I am, I'm not a great business person. I don't really, I didn't get that. Unfortunately, I didn't get the gift of any kind of visioning for business. I really, really didn't.
00:14:13
Speaker
my mind just sort of blurs out and I don't really know what to do with that stuff. And somebody, I can't remember who it was, but somebody, I think it might have been,
00:14:27
Speaker
a really sweet person named Eric. He's a publicist and I had worked with him on a different project and he said, you know, I want to send this to Righteous Babe and just see like maybe, you know, maybe they would be interested. And I had met Ani and of course was a huge fan since it's actually my dad was the first person to turn me on to Ani's music. And I remember him telling me, hey, I think you're going to love this.
00:14:57
Speaker
songwriter that I just came across, young Ani, he called her at the time. And, you know, of course I did. And I remember when I first heard her and saw her live, I think it was, I couldn't tell you what year that was, but I remember just being in the room and feeling like somehow we would be friends someday. And I couldn't really tell you why, but
00:15:27
Speaker
Anyways, all those years later, um, I got, um, an offer, you know, that Eric sent this, uh, recording that I had made to them to, to righteous babe. And I got a really sweet note from Steve Delmer who runs the label for Ani.
00:15:47
Speaker
and with Ani and just said, hey, we love this album and we were really interested in putting it out and got a really sweet message passed on from Ani. And I was just immediately
00:16:04
Speaker
in you know because it's it is an independent label and it is very artist friendly and it was just the first label that really felt like the right kind of place for me to be just musically and also just kind of artistically and yeah just as a human in the world there's just such an open
00:16:34
Speaker
and creative and really radical in the best sense of the word thing going on there. And I love being a part of Righteous Babe Records. I really am honored to be placed in that setting.
00:16:54
Speaker
Well, I mean, again, from the outside, I was like, well, this is perfectly suitable and fitting. Definitely felt like that. I mean, I feel like, I mean, it's a gigantic subject. We could spend hours talking about just that, I'm sure, but being a woman in the world, but also in the music business, you know, has all kinds of
00:17:21
Speaker
various challenges, I guess. I mean, for any artist, however you identify. But yeah, there was just something about it. I just felt like it was kind of a hard time for me personally, just at that exact time too. And so just suddenly feeling welcomed into a really safe space felt like a gift from the world for sure.
00:17:52
Speaker
Yeah. Connecting with the independence of the label is probably less of a struggle when you could connect to that ideal there. Just hearing you talk, it's kind of like independence and being like, I need to do my own thing.
00:18:13
Speaker
to find that safe harbor. And I talked to a lot of non-male guests on the show and have some deeper conversations about the experience in music and having that type of space, safety.
00:18:35
Speaker
creativity, your own creativity. It's so great that that's fostered, you know, Righteous Babe, and heck, you can't get a better name for a label than Righteous Babe, right? Yeah, and then there's, you know, and then Ani's energy, of course, as you know, anybody that's a fan knows, like it's
00:18:58
Speaker
It's, there's just such a, there is a, that real open, there's a real openness. It's real, really open. And then also, um, but very, you know, very fiery and also really joyful. And that's, you know, it's an amazing combination of things to have kind of near you in, in that kind of idea of putting music out there. Cause especially these days, I feel like
00:19:24
Speaker
I mean, everything I've done has been very independent, you know, with definitely veered just naturally into the indie realms. But having that kind of, I don't know, there's like a, there's such a verb or something, you know, connected to it too, and no apologies, and just
00:19:53
Speaker
just that joyful thing of like, let's put this stuff out there and see what happens. It's just been really, yeah, it's been like a very, a great spark, you know, just, it's fire. Yeah, with the Franco, some of the early music, my girlfriend at the time, quite some time ago, gosh,
00:20:17
Speaker
And he was first doing some stuff maybe 20 something years ago. So she got really into, and of course, quite prolific. I was just surprised at that time. It was a little bit different at that time to see somebody putting out music so prolifically. So I prolifically listened at that time to the early catalog and really got connected and attached to that.
Nature of Art
00:20:43
Speaker
Easy question, Pieda, what is art?
00:20:47
Speaker
What is art? Oh, let's see. What would I say? That's such a gigantic question, really. But I don't know what, like a playful, infinite language or something. I don't know. Playful, intimate language, sure. Infinite, well, infinite. It's all infinite. I feel like it's just a wide open,
00:21:15
Speaker
It's obviously a playful kind of infinite language that we all kind of try to use to communicate something that we really can't in a linear way in other realms. Yeah. I want to tell you about just in my head, my connection to Iowa.
00:21:47
Speaker
to the Seed Savers Music Festival in Decorah, Iowa, years ago. Your dad, Greg Brown, there and other great musicians. And I hadn't spent much time in Iowa. I was living in Wisconsin at the time and they had camping there.
00:22:11
Speaker
So you go there early and it was just such a unique experience. Small festival, supporting ear loom seeds, playground for the kids. My kids were really young and it was this...
00:22:29
Speaker
sliver in Iowa. For me, I don't know the area particularly well, but it's just a beautiful, beautiful farm and beautiful area. I can remember it distinctly to this day, so I have this strong resonance and feel, not only for the music, but for the whole beauty of the area.
00:22:55
Speaker
I know you've traveled a bit and you've lived in different areas and heard you kind of sort of chuck out, listened to some of your interviews, but kind of making it back over as a place for your art and yourself in Iowa. What does that mean to you? What does your place mean for you in your art?
00:23:23
Speaker
Yeah, that's, I mean, it's kind of, I think that's an ongoing question for sure, but I definitely, yeah, I grew up in a lot of different places. I grew up, I mean, my early years were in Iowa, out in the country in really remote area. And we, you know, we didn't have running water, we used a wood stove for heat. It was definitely really,
00:23:54
Speaker
was a kind of barrenness to it but also there again like an openness thing. So I still think about those early years and at that time too my great-grandparents were still alive and they lived in southeastern Iowa so I went down there a lot as well so that kind of all runs together in my memory in terms of
00:24:18
Speaker
spatial landscapes. And they were also musicians. My great grandfather played the banjo and my great grandmother played the pump organ. And there was all kinds of musicians that would gather and jam. There was these really great music jams called the Selma jams.
00:24:42
Speaker
And something about that, because my great grandparents, you know, they were definitely really, really rural people and very poor, really poor. And then I was growing up in that kind of
00:25:02
Speaker
in a similar way but then in the kind of greater Iowa City area at the time the place where we were living was the ways outside of town there was this kind of other you know artistic scene going on that was that was not that it was a different thing right so there's something about those
00:25:24
Speaker
kinds of those layers converging or something that obviously made a big impact on me. And then I spent a bunch of other years in my childhood in Birmingham, Alabama. I lived in Minnesota, came back to Iowa to finish high school, and then I left pretty quickly after that and wandered all over the place. I really went a lot of different places. I lived in Quebec, in Canada. I went and
00:25:54
Speaker
around Mexico. I went to, you know, I traveled all over the place. I went all over the United States kind of trying to find my spot. And then I lived in New York City for a few years in Arizona. And then once I started really doing shows, which was kind of between New York City and
00:26:14
Speaker
Arizona, like once I really started trying to see what would happen if I could overcome enough shyness to start singing in a microphone in a room full of people. Like once I started doing that, something just called me back to Iowa and I bought a trailer at the time and it was on the edge of town as well and just kind of let myself write
00:26:44
Speaker
songs, you know, and really play a lot of music. And then I just started following the shows and was roaming around doing those. And so it just kind of unfolded that way. Life started happening, you know. So I came back here to kind of let myself hide out, I feel like, even more. And then
00:27:12
Speaker
I started doing shows and then I just kept doing shows and it kept slowly building from there. And part of it too was just the reality that I could pay my bills living here as an artist and I could still kind of hide out, which just seems to be my nature a little bit. And then I was still getting to travel all over the world really.
00:27:40
Speaker
doing things. So it ended up, it's here I am. Yeah. But yeah, I think there's such an amazing connection between, I feel like between land and music, land and art.
00:28:03
Speaker
And there's that beautiful book, I don't know if you've ever read it, called Song Lines. No, I haven't. It's by Bruce Chatwin. And it's a totally different subject. He was a travel writer from the year that he went to Australia. But the essence of that book, for me, was just he was kind of an outsider, obviously. I mean, he wasn't kind of an outsider. He totally was an outsider.
00:28:33
Speaker
in that kind of Aboriginal worlds, but he was allowed far enough in to kind of at least be able to translate some of their views on the connection between land and music. And part of their whole kind of way of remembering and mapping places was through
00:29:02
Speaker
music through song lines, like they would sing their way back home. Oh, my goodness. It's really beautiful. But that I read that when I was pretty young. And that really has stuck with me, too. And I still think about it. Just, yeah, it's a it's a kind of exciting subject. Am I still I'm excited by just all those connections? You know, I mean, I'm living in Iowa, where
00:29:30
Speaker
I just read last night, I think 99.9% of the actual original natural prairie has been obliterated here. So there's like 1% of some natural little piece of a prairie that hasn't been obliterated. I mean, people are trying to restore things. They're restoring it from things that have already been radically altered.
00:30:00
Speaker
So, um, so it's a, you know, it's a big subject, but there's something about that connection between sound and land that I'm totally fascinated by. Yeah, I agree. I was really influenced, um, recently by the artist, uh, Black Belt Eagle Scout. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, uh, an album, the land, uh, there might be, I may have the order mixed up land, the sky.
00:30:34
Speaker
And it's just, you can't extricate the land from, you know, from what you're hearing. And it's really just so beautiful. And that immersion for me, I got to read that chat one book. Chat one's a great, yeah, great writer. I remember might've done one called In Patagonia. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Did some other things, but I did not.
00:31:00
Speaker
I had not heard of him doing that in that song. It's fun to read. It's really cool. Yeah, it's just inspiring. And, you know, of course, it just opens up. I don't know, it was just like a way of putting into words some of those things you think about. And you're like, oh, yeah, OK, there's a whole culture that I
00:31:29
Speaker
that's singing their way around where they live. That makes perfect sense, but it's not the thing right now, really. I don't want to make any assumptions on my side, but obviously the rural influences, and you've obviously traveled and been
00:31:51
Speaker
you know, bend to the to the cities. Do you feel like when it comes to, you know, creating and such that it is something of rural America, that it is like, you know, you're put in the category of Americana, which when we're talking about large categories, I mean, I know what it means in my head and but, you know, big, big category.
00:32:19
Speaker
Does the creation, is it a rural creation that's presented, you know, in the city or like when it comes to, you know, like when you're in New York City, obviously, or somewhere else, I mean, do things come out there for you? Or is it more just, you know, from maybe the rural or the American landscape?
00:32:45
Speaker
Yeah, I don't really know. I mean, I feel like it's obviously a big messy mix of responses and ideas and stuff when songs are coming in or when you're playing music with other people, which is, of course, one of my favorite parts of actually playing music. I mean, the songwriting is its own wild entity and then actually
00:33:14
Speaker
playing music with other people and putting the music into the song kinda is a different thing too. So yeah, I don't know. I feel, I know that there's something in those kind of early sounds that, that still seem to come in and come up no matter what I do, if that makes sense. Like, I mean, you know, by the time I was a teenager, I was,
00:33:43
Speaker
you know, I listened to everything. I mean, I got super into, I was really drawn to kind of country blues when I was a kid and a teenager and I got obsessed. I really was obsessed and I still am, but also like I found a Led Zeppelin record in my mom's boyfriend's collection and got obsessed with that. So, you know,
00:34:12
Speaker
Then I worked at a record store and the guy that ran the record store was like a complete jazz, you know, madman. Like he knows everything. I learned so much from him and started listening to Faroe Sanders albums. And so I feel like all of that stuff colored my worlds at a really early age, but still like if I pick up a guitar or a banjo or whatever it is, some kind of,
00:34:42
Speaker
family sound, or I don't know what you call it. Yeah, yeah. Even though I'm hearing Pharaoh Sanders in my head, or a very experimental kind of, you know, like I was doing a show, I don't know, I guess it was just last week, or maybe 10 days ago, or something up in Grand Marais with some of my favorite musicians that I've had the chance to play with, Sean Carey, Mike Lewis,
00:35:10
Speaker
Jeremy Ilvesucker, you know, Sean and Mike have, you know, very big parts of the band Bon Iver and I've recorded that album Freeway with them. But I hadn't played with them in a long time, but we're sitting there playing and getting ready to try a new song that we were going to try to perform the next night.
00:35:36
Speaker
Sean said something about like, is that how you're going to do it? And I said, yeah, I think I'll start it like that. And he's like, yeah, like free jazz with a with a kind of form or something is how he described the song. And it was just it was a great moment. So so somehow it's all it all makes its way in, I guess, is my point. But there does seem to be some kind of, you know, we all have these basic
00:36:05
Speaker
colors you know someone like Ani is another good example it's like Ani always sounds like Ani you know even though uh and is that the landscape I don't know but does that sort of make its way in probably? I um I thanks for for chatting about this too I had a recent conversation with uh
Influences & Projects
00:36:30
Speaker
with an artist and we kind of got into this jag a little bit trying to explore industrial music and the sounds and, you know, like metal and its connection to kind of, you know, rusted out cities, I think of Detroit, Cleveland, Milwaukee. Yeah. You know,
00:36:52
Speaker
and Chicago scene for industrial and city industrial sounds so it's a very loose exploration but um I did an art class one time just on it was called the spirit of the place you know it's a short course I haven't taken many art courses but
00:37:14
Speaker
was delving into it quickly just tripped into ghosts, you know, and past stories in what a place holds and if a place is spooky or if a place, you know, holds this energy. Yeah. I mean, it seems like an era you can just go on, go on forever, you know, places. Yeah, exactly. Like I think
00:37:45
Speaker
Absolutely. I mean, that is... I think we can't escape it, right? I mean, I'm always joking to my friends about how many ghosts I saw today, you know, living in a place where I've kind of had a lot of different lifetimes. Yeah, and I feel like sound is absolutely... that... contains many ghosts. Yeah, yeah. I, um...
00:38:13
Speaker
I wanted to ask you about, I wasn't able to watch it, couldn't find it, but I was so fascinated by your story of dropping off, going out to Europe and doing the film around Louisa. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I got a, you know, I watched the trailer and stuff and I'm like, oh my gosh, this is like, it's kind of like pressing your nose up against the glass and being like, you know, let the store open here. So, gonna, gonna track down
00:38:41
Speaker
copy or streaming. Yeah, I have a link I could send you. Oh, that'd be that'd be that'd be beautiful. Tell me. Yeah, just just just tell listeners like, you know, just like, unto it feels like an unto itself, like experience over there.
00:38:59
Speaker
on film, with the visuals in film. And I know you did the music as well. What was that like for you? And even in the artistic process of creating the movie? Yeah, so that was there again. That was a totally wild just occurrence. I don't know. I don't even know exactly how it happened. I just one day I had a
00:39:29
Speaker
I got a message and like I said, I'm really not good at the kind of managing anything like the business stuff or any kind of like social media stuff. I'm really not good at it. I don't feel that connected to it even though I'm fascinated by it and I move in and out of it a little bit as a
00:39:52
Speaker
especially as somebody who does love to look at things and listen to things, but I'm not very good at staying engaged with it. But somehow I had a message that came to me. I had somebody was running my Facebook page at the time and there was a little message there just like, Hey, do you speak French and do you have any acting experience? And, you know, I was,
00:40:20
Speaker
I responded in a pretty, you know, sassy way. I think I kind of wrote a little sentence, assuming that maybe it was
00:40:35
Speaker
you know, that it was some kind of scam or also just that maybe it was an old friend kind of teasing me or something. So I wrote a little message in French because, like I said, in many of my crazy travels, at one point I basically ran away from the rest of my life and I lived in Quebec City for a while. So I learned some French there.
00:41:04
Speaker
So, but then when I wrote that back, they're like, hey, great, you know, this is great. I'm working with a small film company and the director, this woman who's written a film and is going to make her first feature film has come across
00:41:26
Speaker
some of your music and some of your music videos. And she's really, you know, intrigued and wondering if you would be willing to come to France and audition for this film. Yeah. And so I was like, oh, you know, I don't really have any acting experience and I'm not sure about mixing what I really do, like the part of me that is definitely not an actor, you know,
00:41:54
Speaker
and not, I don't know. I mean, I always felt like performing music is the thing I'm still working on. You know, like I'm not really, the music for me is not usually about performance. It's more about like offering music that I can make in the moment or something. You know, I'm always so impressed by
00:42:23
Speaker
people that are such great natural performers with their songs. You know, Ani is a great example. I can think of, you know, many, many people that have that gift, but it's definitely for me something with my shyness and all that. It took me a long time to even feel like I could sing into the microphone in a room full of people. So I was definitely leery of trying to combine those two things because
00:42:51
Speaker
when I got the kind of original script and all that, the main character in the film is a musician. And there's all kinds of things that are absolutely nothing like me. But in the end, they convinced me to come do the audition. And I spent a few days. It was a pretty intensive auditioning process. It was like two or three days, I think, with different counter
00:43:21
Speaker
parts like lead possible lead male people that were part of the story. And I had to be in my broken French and I thought for sure, like there's no way in hell I'm going to get this, you know, this part or this movie, but it was a fun experience to go audition. You know, that's cool. But then like a month later, I got the invitation to, I mean, I got the call like, do you want to do this film? Yeah.
00:43:50
Speaker
And I actually said no at first. Again, just kind of feeling like I wasn't sure I had the right mix of things. But my experimental artistic nature won out. I was like, I got to try it. Why not? But I didn't feel like I would have anything to lose, really.
00:44:18
Speaker
And so, yeah, it was definitely really fun and interesting and just a mind expanding experience. I will never, I don't know, I can't see a film again and not try to love it now that I know how hard it is to make films.
00:44:45
Speaker
Oh, right. It's such an amazing collaborative process. And so, yeah, you know, I mean, this film was a totally underground indie film, and I was treated really well in all the, you know, in all the different ways. And I, I gave a lot to doing that film for sure. And as a kind of, you know, I like to make these little experimental films myself.
00:45:14
Speaker
and little videos and kind of moving image things so I learned a lot just about doing that kind of stuff too just from being involved in that project and then the musical part was fun because I had to I co-wrote the songs but according to the director's specifications so that was also really hard and weird for me because it wasn't like a free-form open place which I'm used to working from or
00:45:44
Speaker
It was absolutely done to really specific outlines, you know, and then I was also working with really great musicians that were involved in the project. Yeah, it was wild. It was just, it's hard to even talk about, but I really,
00:46:06
Speaker
I really loved doing it. And if I wasn't quite as removed as I am from the whole, all the different industries living out here, especially coming off of that, I thought that would be something I'd like to try more of. But I haven't found any other doors yet into that world.
00:46:35
Speaker
I did another little zombie film right after that. Wait a second. Hold up, hold up, hold up. Let's make sure you don't skip over your film career after you said the word zombie in the zombie film that you did after that. Yeah, I got invited to be a part of it. It was a short film for a really great musician, also based in France, and they were making a little
00:47:06
Speaker
And I got to be the zombie bride. It was very fun.
00:47:16
Speaker
Oh my. Well, yes, I'm glad to drop into film with you as well. Most definitely. I love my zombie movies too. To be totally honest, I'm a little bit scared of zombie films still, but doing that actually really helped me.
00:47:38
Speaker
I'm not being scared by all of that, just visually. I guess I'm sensitive enough and I've never really liked horror movies and all those things, they stir up too many. I don't know, too many ghosts, I guess. But doing the zombie movie definitely helped me have a better sense of humor about all of it.
00:48:07
Speaker
Yeah, I'm glad your time in the province of Quebec helped you with the... Yeah, it was definitely a wild connection, right? Like amazing that in the film, the character that I played, she
00:48:27
Speaker
is an American but has been living in Europe for, you know, like most of her adult life. And so the character in the film, I was all in French and I was the, played the lead role. And I think, so yeah, it's all in French, which is amazing. Talk about challenging, challenging yourself. I've never been so tired. I don't think it's the most tired I've ever been is when that film got done. Cause I was,
00:48:56
Speaker
Not only were we shooting like 12 hour days for a couple of months, but it was also everything was in a foreign language. And I mean, everything was in French. Your exhaustion had to be different. And so it was just, yeah, I was, I think I was, I don't know, it was a different kind of tired.
00:49:17
Speaker
I think I finally recovered, but it was amazing though. It was a total challenge. It was like escape and challenge and all the different things. That's incredible.
Philosophical Exploration
00:49:32
Speaker
One of the things I wanted to, one of the things I wanted to ask you was the, was the big question of the show. And it's a, why do you think there's something rather than nothing?
00:49:47
Speaker
It's such a great question. I really I don't know how to answer that. Something that comes to mind, though, is this great story about my dad. He was playing in northern Minnesota with Bo.
00:50:15
Speaker
I think Bo's the one that told me this story, Bo Ramsey, electric guitar player, great musician. And they were standing, it's the middle of winter and they were playing Northern Minnesota. So it was really, really, really cold. Like crazy, crazy, deep Midwest winter. And they were standing outside smoking.
00:50:44
Speaker
And my dad said, just think there's a whole country north of here. So that's what comes to mind. You know, they're standing on a northern border and realizing there's a whole country north. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, why is there something rather than nothing? I mean, I think there again, that's kind of gets back to. I guess what I said about art is
00:51:13
Speaker
of this kind of playful language thing. And I feel like that's something about that question is, it's such a playful question really. It is. Because lots of, you know, the other thing that comes to my mind is that really great song by the Pretenders by Chrissy Hind, The Nothing Maker, I think it's called. Yeah, yeah.
00:51:42
Speaker
You know, it's like, um, I don't know that there, I mean, something and nothing, it's, it's, those are, um, great concepts that are fun to think about. Um, I guess because, you know, I guess cause of the, cause of the stars, right? Like we're all part stars, right? That's, that's how we're here somehow. I love, I love that.
00:52:12
Speaker
I love that idea. The thing is with the question for me, which it allows, and it's actually very useful for me as a creator in my mind, is the intense interests in a lot of different areas. And the question's big as a philosophical question, but it's such a cover
00:52:35
Speaker
you know, to chat about everything. And, you know, and there's a part two of like, I studied, you know, philosophy academically at the university. Very proud of what I've done is that that was an amazing journey for myself too. But as a thinker and a philosopher is like,
00:53:01
Speaker
people, little kids, they ask these questions. Like I became fascinated with the fact that little kids ask these questions, right? And then the questions that are kind of knocked out of you because it's like, you know, why are you spending your time? Like you need to be doing something else. You don't need to be spending your time on the origin of the universe, right? So kids will be like, you know, ask the question behind the question. It was like, Oh, that's that sound. It was like, where does this, how's the sound come from? Where is the sound? And, you know,
00:53:30
Speaker
there's this kind of like basic question, but I've enjoyed it because I've done the show as an international show and being able to talk to a variety of artists and to drop down the question into the reason why it's an art and philosophy show is because I'm talking to people who are creating something that just didn't exist before and we're gonna talk about it. Like, how did it come to be?
00:54:00
Speaker
Uh, where did it come from? It exists now. Um, so it's, it's, it's, it's, it's fun. It's fun to our natural philosopher to kick around. The funniest part about it, uh, Pieta is that. I haven't done over 200 episodes. Um, I experienced the sound after me asking that question and we want to put together like just the sounds of having to ask that question. Cause it's like.
00:54:33
Speaker
the like what did you just something rather than nothing and uh it's just a reaction to it um i don't know it's some sort of weird thrill or joy that would make a great sound collage i feel like it really
00:54:52
Speaker
It really would. I've thought about it. But, you know, you create a lot of things and it builds up. I somehow over the last four years have a week's content. So if listeners don't have anything to do over the next 7.5 days, they can become a completionist. Yeah.
00:55:16
Speaker
The question is, yeah, it's a great question. I mean, that was part of what drew me to you, to your podcast. Because I think, you know, I don't think there's any artist or musician, any creator out there that isn't somehow connected to that question.
00:55:44
Speaker
I thought so. I wanted to ask you something very curious about.
Music Industry Challenges
00:55:56
Speaker
had a career in music and I talked to a lot of musicians, enjoy music myself and live music, but what's the deal with making music now and making a go of it? And everybody knows, everybody talks about that it's tough.
00:56:25
Speaker
you know, that it's evolving and that parts of it have evolved to where it's sometimes in general tougher for the artists themselves, the creator, to get paid. What's it like making music now in the industry compared to, you know, when you were starting? Is it much more difficult to navigate or is it different?
00:56:55
Speaker
It's definitely different. I feel like maybe I'm lucky in that way in that maybe coming to it so shyly and sort of so on the fringe. I didn't really ever reach a period where it wasn't really hard to keep trying to figure out how to keep the bills paid. Yeah.
00:57:21
Speaker
And so in some ways I feel like that's kind of, I've hovered in that place the whole time I've been doing it. So maybe I'm lucky in that way, right? Cause it's not as, it hasn't been such a letdown, you know, it's just like, it's still a puzzle. And I still don't know, like I still don't know how long I can keep keeping the bills paid doing it, but I've always felt that
00:57:51
Speaker
And I mean, I do, you know, I'm really close to a lot of musicians that have had enough success in all the different ways to make the financial part of it, you know, kind of more predictable or something they could count on, that kind of thing. I mean, my dad is a good example. He definitely,
00:58:20
Speaker
reached a period where he didn't have to be so worried about that. Of course when I was a kid that I saw you know I grew up without that stability so maybe that's also why that is not so cool for me or something or like it seems like part of the
00:58:39
Speaker
part of the package or something. So yeah, but I don't know. I mean, I know I hear I'm really close to a lot of musicians, of course. Some of my best friends that I talk to all the time are we're all definitely struggling with those same questions. And I feel like maybe just a self protection thing or something early on. I mean,
00:59:08
Speaker
Maybe that is part of hiding out or something. I just, um, regardless of whether I pay my bills with it or not, I feel like it's something, I don't know, for me, it's a lifeline more than a, more than a career or more than a way of paying the bills. Um, so that part of it is secondary for me. And so if I can't figure that out, then.
00:59:38
Speaker
I'll figure out a different way to pay my bills so that I can keep, you know, feeding my addiction, I guess. I mean, I'm so enchanted with music and songs, especially songwriting and sounds and how it all is that I feel
01:00:02
Speaker
I'm disappointed that life is so short for that reason, because there's just such an infinite exploration. So it feels like it's definitely not enough time. But yeah, I mean, it is really hard. It's hard to make a living doing that. At the same time, it's really hard for a lot of people to make a living. And I think we all feel that right now. So many people are really struggling.
01:00:29
Speaker
resources are getting scarcer and the real questions are so gigantic of like how are we going to take better care of our of our the world around us and ourselves so that it's more harmonious and coherent so that it can all keep moving forward in some way that is not
01:00:57
Speaker
total destruction, right? I think that's sort of like at the center of a lot of people's thoughts. And, you know, even if it's not something you think about every day all the time, I feel like most people I know are grappling with that, like, hmm, what's going on here? So, so, yeah, I mean, it's a it's a big question, of course. And at the same time, I feel like the
01:01:24
Speaker
There's such an intensity right now in general for all of us to try to figure out how can we keep trying to make a living that is actually hopefully sustainable for our future ancestors.
01:01:50
Speaker
I asked this question in relation to art itself, but with those conditions, you know, conditions now, you know, expressing that general economic stresses go in day to day, you know, making it through.
01:02:11
Speaker
Do you feel that the role of art itself or say music within this context has changed like the role of art or is art just, you know, art-ing like it has? Yeah, I don't feel like the role of it has changed really that much because like I said, I feel like at the essence of what art is, is
01:02:41
Speaker
an expression of those, all those tensions and questions and sparks that we all carry around. So I feel like in a lot of ways it hasn't, the, what it is itself hasn't really shifted that much, you know, the, the different colors of the times will come out, you know, and that's important, but yeah, I guess that's
01:03:11
Speaker
That's my take on that. Yeah. Yeah. I've, um, I know sometimes artists, you know, any artist is going to be sensitive to the pressures of the, of the time. And, uh, I've had different answers on that, you know, I, I'm, I'm myself, I think I have like kind of a, I don't know, this, this view that it hasn't changed because I think humans in general, like kind of define themselves, you know, in accordance to.
01:03:43
Speaker
the what's going on in the world and the threats to the world it always seems that there's threats right threats or an experience of that and that art responds in that type type of way i think sometimes i get into a little bit deeper where people say it has it has changed um and maybe in the context that they feel like a stronger connection of the need for the art to
01:04:09
Speaker
I don't do something maybe to disrupt, enlighten, whatever it is. So I find it really fascinating that, you know, some people have seen that the times are different now. Where I believe that humans, you know, the sky, the sky's always been fallen in as part of a useful way to define ourself. It's a very inexact way of putting it, but...
01:04:36
Speaker
biggest, clearest difference is just there's so many of us. And so the population and the density of human expression has also increased, right? Because I mean, the more humans there are, the more expression there's going to be. And so obviously that's going to affect the experience of it. But maybe there's something in that that will
01:05:06
Speaker
Yeah, like if art is what kind of collectively we have defined it as being, then maybe there is, you know, maybe it is part of the link of healing too. Yeah, yeah.
01:05:30
Speaker
I studied some of the philosopher Martin Heidegger, and he did this essay called The Question Concerning Technology a long time ago. Saw technology as a threat in the sense that the tools that we use historically have been more connected to our hands, an extension of our self, of the body.
01:05:55
Speaker
And, you know, with technology, there's a decoupling, you know, that we see from humans having created the tech in the text unto itself. And it's a little it's, you know, it's it's the main conclusion within it, which is dissatisfying to a lot of philosophers, but I love was poetry.
01:06:20
Speaker
Hölderlein's German poet was within the poetry that there was this deep, deep, deep connection through art in finding the answers and that was within the poets to help. And I don't know, it still has this like kind of resonance of, I agree with the kind of fundamental point of the
01:06:44
Speaker
technology loosed from ourselves, the question of AI, thinking back, thinking back at us.
01:06:55
Speaker
And then with the distribution bit, and you said the amount of people, what economic system supports that amount of people, those people creating art, how do we see, buy, consume, access, all these great things.
01:07:17
Speaker
So speaking of great things, Pieta, where do listeners, where do they find, you know, find your stuff, find your music and your creativity? Well, you can find me in Iowa, at least for a minute. I think, you know, it's all out there on the crazy, crazy technology systems.
01:07:46
Speaker
Yeah, it's all out there in the different streaming realms. And you can, of course, get things from Righteous Babe Records, which I always like to support directly and directly from me through the website kind of things. Yeah, it's all out there. And I guess, you know, it's funny when you were talking before about
01:08:17
Speaker
economic systems and stuff. I think one of the best things about art and music is that really when you really get down to it, it's so much bigger than any of those concepts of buying anything or I think that's one thing I love about it so much or one of the reasons why deep down I don't really worry about making a living even though that's an important
01:08:47
Speaker
part of life, it's I don't know how important it is as a like being an artist, if that makes sense, you know, like taking capitalism out of it is so freeing and great. And so, yeah, you can get all my music for free, basically. And it's been fun and kind of interesting to see how
01:09:15
Speaker
people are figuring out how to support artists beyond just buying music or buying a piece of art, you know, like kind of shifting back into these ideas of being patrons and all those kinds of things. It's kind of a fun concept of a more like direct support system.
01:09:39
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. I really appreciate it. I mean, part of the thing is, Pierre is a unique experience for me. And one of the things I think of sometimes just kind of an odd thought is, with artists, me as a music lover and artist that you enjoy over time and the connection to the songs. And I just wanted to let you know,
01:10:10
Speaker
I started this show four years ago and, you know, on my list of where I want to go and where I want to get to was your name was on that. And, you know, for me, I'm unabashed in my enthusiasm, you know, for, you know, for, you know, for your work and for the artists that I really enjoy. And the questions I ask are like,
01:10:37
Speaker
I can't believe sometimes I can get inside and talk about these things that are behind all these things you create and those connections. I just want to tell you, I really appreciate chatting with you. You have the technical problem of wanting to chat another five hours.
01:10:59
Speaker
Part two, part two. Yeah, yeah. I would definitely do that because I would have it on my notes too. It's like, make sure you never come back. But no, I really, really appreciate your beautiful music. I've been listening to more of it lately, kind of like in the vibe of the, towards the interview. And yeah, your videos are just wonderful visually. And I think in general, people,
01:11:29
Speaker
There's something about, let's just say, singer-songwriter or folk singer, the voice, the prominence of the voice and how you deliver that, that is really just quite beautiful. I just wanted to thank you for that. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. I do really love songs and it's fun to
01:11:58
Speaker
talk to you just because your enthusiasm is palpable just about all of it. And I think that's really a gift. So thank you. I appreciate it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I.
01:12:10
Speaker
I have the fond memories that I do of Iowa and the area in the Midwest. I do like the people in the Midwest and one of the things for me is interesting is I'm from the city out in Rhode Island, Pawtucket, Rhode Island. But one of the things that I really enjoy about myself is
01:12:37
Speaker
I don't know whether it's within the union work that I do or doing the, you know, the art gig, is that I'm super, super comfortable talking to everybody and talking in rural folks. And I know, you know, I work with groups to do rural organizing and, you know, the emergence of differences in the country.
01:13:06
Speaker
I just really like being able to, to, to go into, into places and just, uh, you know, connect with people and, uh, thinking about the Midwest and the small towns and maybe the more community minded, um, uh, I really connected that. And, uh, and, uh, so just, just a nice place.
Music's Connecting Power
01:13:26
Speaker
And I hope you, uh, enjoy your day in Iowa. And, um, uh, how was the weather?
01:13:33
Speaker
It's absolutely stunning, honestly. What? Don't tell me that. It's stunning. Iowa weather right now. Yeah, it's looking at these tall grasses blowing in the wind out by the trees. It's really, really beautiful today. Yeah, it's super beautiful. Yeah, go ahead. I'm just going to say, I think that that kind of work in general right now is so important to people.
01:14:02
Speaker
talking about differences. I feel like that is maybe something that songs and music are good at too, in a way. Like that's something I've really enjoyed about staying in Iowa and playing a lot of shows in small towns in Iowa, even though I'm kind of coming at
01:14:25
Speaker
maybe the world or how I live my life in a kind of superficially different way politically or something. Some of my views are probably pretty different than some of these smaller communities that I go into.
01:14:45
Speaker
music is such a direct connection that's so much bigger than all of those things. And I've really loved seeing, yeah, just how the making room for differences and not feeding all this kind of frenzy of how differently we think about things rather than, you know, like, how can I connect with you? So anyways, that's something that I was drawn to about your
01:15:16
Speaker
your podcast from the beginning. Yeah. And it's like you mentioned music and it's, uh, dance too. Like, how do we, how do we, I don't know. It's not Pollyannish in a sense, but like, maybe it is, but you know, uh, dancing in the communality in, in, in, in the music, it's so, so fun. Like I myself don't even have enough. I haven't created enough time or keep looking for the ability to dance just to,
01:15:46
Speaker
to dance for community. Dance is where it's at. It is. It is. Now, I got to tell you, yeah, go ahead. Everybody needs to dance. I wish everybody to do that every day. That would be great.
01:16:04
Speaker
to whatever, you know, I agree. Like you can feel better. There's a, there's a flow state attached to it. And even for me and my politics, I forget which famous person said it, you know, about the revolution. It's like, don't even bother with the revolution if there isn't going to be dancing. Don't bother. And it's like in response, I think, to totalitarianism, Soviet union type stuff. But it was like, yo, if we're going to revolt against this shit,
01:16:33
Speaker
We better be dancing through it and after it. Because if we ain't, we haven't won. We haven't won the battle. We finally got it to the point of the fuck year at the end of the show.
01:16:56
Speaker
Final point, I am a person that bounces between extremes. I haven't listened to a lot of your beautiful music. I'm taking my kiddos up to Washington State, a little bit of a drive. We're going to catch Three Doors Down, Chevelle and Loathe Metal Show. Nice. Up at the RV campgrounds up in Washington, a bit north of Portland, rainy out here.
01:17:23
Speaker
That's why I was kind of responded to you with the beautiful weather. Guess what? The weather report from the Pacific Northwest is raining gray. It is raining lightly and it's gray outside. Out there not that long ago though, I was out there doing some shows with Iris DeMette.
01:17:44
Speaker
And it was so spectacular. That's really a really spectacular place. So rain and gray, that's okay. It is. It is all right. And I gotta tell you, people are, people really dig it. There's a comfort folks get here, particularly for the, the long timers of there's a cadence of the rain in the gray, which is slower, which
01:18:13
Speaker
is a challenge sometimes for me, the gray appeals and the kind of like, uh, maybe like a little bit darker, a little bit quieter and calmer, but, um,
01:18:22
Speaker
my energies still tend to be summer energies. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, thank you, Pieda. It's so, so lovely to be able to talk to you and I hope to chat some more philosophy and music and sheer art with you very soon.
01:18:46
Speaker
Great, great pleasure for me. And like I said, I started this show with a partial lie towards Pieta Brown and thanks for providing that for me. Thank you, Ken. Thanks so much for including me. Yeah, absolutely.
01:19:54
Speaker
In this dark night
01:21:44
Speaker
Anything in this world for you. Days of screens, under the door. Nights are crowded here, pushing through.
01:22:12
Speaker
Some days run away, way too soon
01:23:45
Speaker
This is something rather than nothing.